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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast.

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Speaker 2: I am so excited about today's episode because we have

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Speaker 2: been watching across this country as students have come into conflict,

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Speaker 2: I would say, on college campuses.

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Speaker 1: And we have a professor here with.

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Speaker 2: Us today who is going to tell us that we

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Speaker 2: actually can be civil. And I think that's something that

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Speaker 2: we've been trying to say, but maybe we're not doing

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Speaker 2: it the right way.

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Speaker 1: So today we have Robert P. George with us.

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Speaker 2: He is the McCormick Professor of Jurisprudence and director of

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Speaker 2: the James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions at

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Speaker 2: Princeton University.

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Speaker 1: Professor, thank you so much for being here today.

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Speaker 3: My pleasure, Tutor, thanks for having me on the show.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely so.

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Speaker 2: I was actually reading about a story where you were

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Speaker 2: the subject of why people actually couldn't gather together. I

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Speaker 2: think they changed the rules on meeting places because someone

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Speaker 2: brought you and you were so offensive that you made

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Speaker 2: people feel unsafe.

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Speaker 1: How do you feel when you hear that?

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Speaker 3: Well, that was a really funny recent episode. Here on

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Speaker 3: my campus, we don't officially have fraternities at Princeton. We

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Speaker 3: officially have things called eating clubs, and students, if they like,

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Speaker 3: are not required to. But a very large percentage of

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Speaker 3: our students do join eating clubs in the second semester

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Speaker 3: of their sophomore year. In those eating clubs or where

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Speaker 3: they eat their meals, their lunch and dinner at least,

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Speaker 3: and they're the center of social life. Now. As it happens,

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Speaker 3: I'm an honorary member of a couple of these clubs,

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Speaker 3: one called Ivy and one called Charter. And at the

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Speaker 3: one called Charter, I was recently brought, not exercising my

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Speaker 3: own membership capacity, but as a guest of a student

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Speaker 3: to have lunch at the club. And it was fine.

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Speaker 3: We had a lovely time, lovely lunch, no incident. Then

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Speaker 3: we parted and everything seemed fine.

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Speaker 1: You thought, no incident.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, the next we heard of it was a

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Speaker 3: few weeks later when the student, a very fine student,

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Speaker 3: outstanding student academically and in every other way, got in

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Speaker 3: touch with me to say that he had gotten a message.

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Speaker 3: He and the other members of the club had gotten

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Speaker 3: a message from the leadership of the club saying that

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Speaker 3: from now on, if you bring a guest, you need

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Speaker 3: to register the names. The guest's name in advance with

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Speaker 3: the club, so it can be posted just in case

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Speaker 3: there are some students who don't want to be present

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Speaker 3: in the club when your guest is there, and they

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Speaker 3: can have sent themselves. Now, no one was prohibited from

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Speaker 3: bringing anyone as a guest, but it was obviously the

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Speaker 3: result of a complaint, and my student intuited that the

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Speaker 3: complaint was about his having brought me, a notorious conservative

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Speaker 3: professor to the club. Now, neither the leadership nor the

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Speaker 3: students who complained were aware of the fact that I

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Speaker 3: was a member of the club, an honorary member, but

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Speaker 3: still a member with full rights, including the right to

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Speaker 3: come to the club whenever I wanted to. So they

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Speaker 3: thought that this new rule would apply to me, But

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Speaker 3: of course it didn't because I was a member of

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Speaker 3: the club.

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Speaker 2: Imagine the guests you might have to register now that

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Speaker 2: you are well.

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Speaker 3: That's right. So what ensued immediately was an uproar. The

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Speaker 3: alumni members of the club were distressed to hear about

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Speaker 3: this insane new policy, offensive new policy. It was very

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Speaker 3: very quickly repealed under pressure from just about everybody, and

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Speaker 3: it's no longer in place, and now it's just a

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Speaker 3: funny little episode from the past, but evidently there were

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Speaker 3: some ultra woke students, not very a very small number

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Speaker 3: who complained that they were made to feel unsafe by

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Speaker 3: being in the club. And what is really ironic about

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Speaker 3: that is not only that I happened to be a

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Speaker 3: member of the club. They didn't know that, but it's true.

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Speaker 3: But also, you know, of all people, I've been the

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Speaker 3: professor on campus who has been out front, in the

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Speaker 3: forefront of saying the importance of all of us treating

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Speaker 3: each other with dignity and civility and listening to each

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Speaker 3: other's arguments and being willing to engage in a robust

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Speaker 3: but entirely civil manner with people with whom you disagree.

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Speaker 3: So I have been pushing very hard against this idea

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Speaker 3: that hearing views you disagree with put you in a

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Speaker 3: position where you are unsafe. Let's just say what that is.

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Speaker 3: That is nonsense, that it is beloney. We could use

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Speaker 3: even more colorful terms about what that is. And it

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Speaker 3: has no place on a college campus in any dimension

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Speaker 3: of campus life, whether it's you know, at the dining clubs,

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Speaker 3: or whether it's in the classrooms or in the gyms.

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Speaker 3: Universities are about truth seeking that's what it's all about.

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Speaker 3: Students are here to try to advance knowledge. Faculty members

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Speaker 3: are here to try to advance knowledge. Students are supposed

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Speaker 3: to learn, Faculty members are supposed to teach as well

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Speaker 3: as as learn. And to do that, we need to

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Speaker 3: be able to engage with people we disagree with, including

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Speaker 3: about big, important issues, not just the minor, superficial, trivial issues,

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Speaker 3: but the big ones. That's how knowledge is advanced. That's

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Speaker 3: how we get nearer the truth. That's how we reach

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Speaker 3: further into the depths of truth. And to do that

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Speaker 3: we need intellectual humility. We need to recognize that we

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Speaker 3: can be wrong about things, that we're fallible. That's what

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Speaker 3: we human beings are. We're not perfect. We'll never know

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Speaker 3: the truth perfectly. It will always be admixed with some error.

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Speaker 3: There is a truth and we can know it, but

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Speaker 3: we're not infallible. We will make mistakes. And the only

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Speaker 3: way those mistakes will be corrected is if we allow

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Speaker 3: people to challenge us. Allow people to question our beliefs,

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Speaker 3: even if they are deeply cherished beliefs are identity forming beliefs.

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Speaker 3: If we don't allow that, we quickly become dogmatists and ideologues,

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Speaker 3: and there's far too much dogmatism and ideology on university

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Speaker 3: campuses today, and those realities, those dreadful realities, are simply

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Speaker 3: antithetical to the truth seeking mission of the university.

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Speaker 2: So your crime is a willingness to debate the other

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Speaker 2: side and have a dialogue back and forth, which honestly.

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Speaker 3: Guilty as charged or guilty and search.

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Speaker 2: That's right, But today it is in some cases seen

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Speaker 2: as you know, two young people, they do feel attacked

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Speaker 2: if they have someone from a dissenting viewpoint come to

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Speaker 2: them and talk to them. And I think that this

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Speaker 2: has been something that we didn't necessarily understand until it.

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Speaker 1: Got to a point where it was at an extreme level.

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Speaker 2: Now we see these protests on college campuses that have

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Speaker 2: gone from a dissenting viewpoint to discrimination of a certain

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Speaker 2: group of students. And so at what point do you say,

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Speaker 2: you can only be you can only bring civility into

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Speaker 2: it for so long before suddenly you have anti semitism,

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Speaker 2: and then how do you handle that.

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Speaker 3: It's the anti semitism that has now surfaced on college

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Speaker 3: campuses around the country, especially the so called elite colleges

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Speaker 3: and universities, the most famous and prestigious and influential institutions,

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Speaker 3: the anti crist Ristin bias, the anti conservative bias that

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Speaker 3: have been present and evident for a long time. These

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Speaker 3: are the fruit of what I call identitarian ideology. This

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Speaker 3: is the ideology that makes the divides the world up

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Speaker 3: into the good guys and the bad guys, the oppressors

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Speaker 3: and the and the oppressed, that sees university life as

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Speaker 3: a campaign for making things comfortable for people like me.

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Speaker 3: However I describe myself racially, or sexually, or in any

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Speaker 3: other respect ethnically, and then any criticism of anyone's views

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Speaker 3: is taken to be a personal attack, taken to be

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Speaker 3: an attack on that person's very identity who that person is.

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Speaker 3: And that's why students claim that to hear a dissenting

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Speaker 3: opinion of opinion, dissenting from their opinion makes them unsafe.

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Speaker 3: But it's a lie and we shouldn't put up with it,

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Speaker 3: and university faculty and administrators should be first in line,

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Speaker 3: not last in line, to say sorry, foul out of bounds.

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Speaker 3: You can't shut down conversation by claiming that your interlocutors

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Speaker 3: make you feel unsafe by holding views that are contrary

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Speaker 3: to yours. That's just as unacceptable as saying, in response

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Speaker 3: to an argument, well the Bible tells me so. To

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Speaker 3: just say the Bible tells me so is a conversation stopper.

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Speaker 3: And if I responded to a liberal critic on my

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Speaker 3: campus by saying, well, the Bible tells me so, they

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Speaker 3: would rightly say, well, wait a minute. You're presupposing the

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Speaker 3: authority of the Bible, and I don't accept the authority

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Speaker 3: the Bible. Do you have any reasoned arguments? Do you

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Speaker 3: have any evidence? Do you have any rational basis apart

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Speaker 3: from revealed religion for your views. They'd be right to

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Speaker 3: demand that of me. But they are being fundamental People

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Speaker 3: on the woke left are being justice fundamentalist. Is a

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Speaker 3: religious fundamentalist When they say your views make me feel unsafe,

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Speaker 3: that's just like saying the Bible tells me so. End

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Speaker 3: of discussion. It's a discussion stopper.

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Speaker 2: That's so interesting because I think we have seen this

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Speaker 2: and we've thought about it in terms of college campuses,

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Speaker 2: and we're like, oh, this next generation is in trouble.

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Speaker 2: But really we're doing this as adults in the political spectrum.

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Speaker 1: I mean I think just about my race and the fact.

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Speaker 2: That just the other day Gretchen Wimer again called me

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Speaker 2: an extremist. And I know why she says that, and

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Speaker 2: it is that's the exact thing. It stops you because

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Speaker 2: once you say, well, she's an extremist, then there's no

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Speaker 2: other argument, there's no other discussion, and everybody goes, oh

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Speaker 2: my goodness, she's an extremist.

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Speaker 1: And why is that?

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Speaker 2: Well, when you ask the why, it's because I don't

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Speaker 2: believe in the fact that she thinks that life begins

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Speaker 2: at conception. I don't believe her feeling of life. And regardless,

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Speaker 2: there's also no discussion on well what does that mean

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Speaker 2: to you?

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Speaker 1: Then?

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Speaker 2: If tutor, if you are someone who believes in life,

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Speaker 2: then does that mean you will go to the extreme

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Speaker 2: of saying that everybody has to have the same viewpoint.

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Speaker 2: I'm not an idiot. I understand where we are in

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Speaker 2: this country. I know that's not the case. But do

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Speaker 2: I want to say, well, can we provide comforts and

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Speaker 2: abilities for people to also believe in life and choose

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Speaker 2: life even though they will have another choice. That discussion

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Speaker 2: can never be had because they cut it off at extremists.

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Speaker 3: Yes, the allegation against you. The smearing of you as

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Speaker 3: an extremist is an attempt to shut down the conversation,

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Speaker 3: to prevent you from participating in the argument for adducing

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Speaker 3: your evidence, giving your reasons, and I can understand why

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Speaker 3: your governor does that to you. It's because she doesn't

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Speaker 3: have a rational argument for her position. There is no

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Speaker 3: rational way to refute the scientifically established fact that the

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Speaker 3: life of a new human being begins at fertilization, at conception,

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Speaker 3: when we have a distinct and unique, both functionally and

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Speaker 3: genetically distinct and unique individual human being, a new member

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Speaker 3: of the species Homo sapiens, which by an internally directed process,

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Speaker 3: a gradual process, will develop himself for her self. Ca

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Speaker 3: sexist in the human determined from the very beginning from

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Speaker 3: the embryonic into and through the fetal, infant, child, and

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Speaker 3: adolescent stages and into adulthood with his or her determinateness

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Speaker 3: and unity and identity fully intact. That's the scientific back

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Speaker 3: to them. It's not the Bible, that's not the authority

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Speaker 3: of the Church. That's the scientifically established fact. So if

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Speaker 3: Gretchen Widmer wants to claim that life doesn't begin at conception,

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Speaker 3: or we don't know where the life of a new

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Speaker 3: human being begins at conception, or we don't know when

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Speaker 3: the life of new human being begins. All that shows

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Speaker 3: is her scientific illiteracy. I suspect she knows the facts.

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Speaker 3: She doesn't, for political reasons, want to admit them, and

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Speaker 3: therefore her only available recourse is to smear anyone who

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Speaker 3: presents the facts as an experist. And that's just like

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Speaker 3: being a biblical fundamentalist or a right wing fundamentalist. She

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Speaker 3: just happens to be a left wing fundamentalist.

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Speaker 2: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on

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Speaker 2: the Tutor Dixon podcast. I mean, you say it in

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Speaker 2: such a succinct and specific way, and I think that's

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Speaker 2: where we've been lacking that ability to come out and say, well,

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Speaker 2: what is actually going on here?

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Speaker 1: We get shut down here, we get shut down there.

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Speaker 2: And I think that that's even the concern with this

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Speaker 2: presidential election. Will Donald Trump be able to actually speak

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Speaker 2: about what he thinks without that being twisted and then

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Speaker 2: okay that he's this and beyond Donald Trump, I mean

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Speaker 2: beyond this election. If we get to the point where

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Speaker 2: we can just have that immediately shut down, you get

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Speaker 2: a label and imediately get shut down. Then how do

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Speaker 2: we as a country continue as the constitutional republic we

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Speaker 2: said we would be where we have open debate.

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Speaker 1: We have open discussions.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes you not even allowed to debate, and when you

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Speaker 2: do debate, you have the left is moderating, so they are.

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Speaker 1: Able to shut you down. So how do we go

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Speaker 1: from here?

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Speaker 2: How do we bring that civility and discussion and debate back.

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Speaker 3: You're a pluralistic society, religiously, politically, and in just about

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Speaker 3: every other way. We are society composed of very different people.

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Speaker 3: Unlike the nations of old Europe, our strength and unity

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Speaker 3: has never been founded on commonality of blood or soil

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Speaker 3: or thrown and alter our bonds. Our strength, our unity

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Speaker 3: has always been our shared commitment to the principles of

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Speaker 3: constitutional democracy, to our democratic republic. Principles has stated articulated

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Speaker 3: in the Declaration of Independence in the Constitution of the

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Speaker 3: United States. Those have always been buttressed by a common

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Speaker 3: faith in God, even across the different religious denominations, and

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Speaker 3: a commitment to the principles of family life, marriage and

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Speaker 3: the family, and to the principle of patriotism, love of country,

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Speaker 3: and the belief and service to communities. That's why, by

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Speaker 3: the authority vested in me, by absolutely no one, I

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Speaker 3: have declared the month of June to be fidelity Month,

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Speaker 3: where we rededicate ourselves and call our fellow citizens back

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Speaker 3: to these ideals of faith in God and fidelity to

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Speaker 3: espouses and families, and love of country and community. But

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Speaker 3: that's because we don't have common blood and soil were

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Speaker 3: thrown an altar to unite around. So what happens in

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Speaker 3: this pluralistic society if we can't resolve our differences by

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Speaker 3: reason debate. We know what happens. There's only one alternative.

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Speaker 3: When you can't resolve things by reason to debate, they

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Speaker 3: will be resolved by force. One way or another. They

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Speaker 3: will be resolved by force. And we cannot let that happen.

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Speaker 3: We must insist that reason, debate and not force, be

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Speaker 3: the way we resolve our differences in this democratic republic.

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Speaker 3: The great thing about democracy GTU is that there are

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Speaker 3: no permanent winners and no permanent losers. There are no

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Speaker 3: permanent victories and no permanent losses in a democracy. If

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Speaker 3: you lose today, if we appeal to our fellow citizens

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Speaker 3: but can't persuade them today We can always come back

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Speaker 3: tomorrow or next year, or in five years or in

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Speaker 3: ten years and say, you know, we need to revisit this.

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Speaker 3: We went down the wrong road. We made a mistake.

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Speaker 3: We undid segregation. That took forever, but we eventually undid segregation.

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Speaker 3: We undid Roe versus Wait. That took us fifty years,

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Speaker 3: but we did it. In a democracy with civil liberty,

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Speaker 3: you can do these things. There are no permanent victories,

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Speaker 3: there are no permanent losses. But that presupposes that people

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Speaker 3: accept the terms of democratic deliberation, and those terms centrally

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Speaker 3: include reason debate. Once you've pushed reason debate aside, they

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Speaker 3: will still be resolved, but that resolved by force.

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Speaker 2: Well doesn't Wouldn't you say that erasing history takes away

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Speaker 2: the ability to debate, because that's something that we've seen.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you talk about getting away, get overcoming segregation,

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Speaker 2: changing that, you talk about Roe v. Wade, you talk

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Speaker 2: about all of these things that have changed and altered

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Speaker 2: how the country functions, and segregation good grief. I mean,

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Speaker 2: look at how far we've come from that. But now

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Speaker 2: they want to take away the statues, they want to

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Speaker 2: take away the history. They don't want to talk about

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Speaker 2: the Civil War. They don't want to talk about how

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Speaker 2: these things happen. But the reality is that there were

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Speaker 2: people on both sides of that debate, and they were

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Speaker 2: from all different backgrounds. And the people who fought for

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Speaker 2: what was right were from all different backgrounds, and they

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Speaker 2: knew no matter what, that their brothers and sisters who

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Speaker 2: were being treated horribly had to be freed, had to

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Speaker 2: have the same rights that they had. But we don't

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Speaker 2: talk about that now.

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Speaker 1: They don't.

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Speaker 2: If they can control history, and they can wrap it

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Speaker 2: up and throw it away, then couldn't it all happen again.

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Speaker 3: It's important to understand the truth about our history. It's

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Speaker 3: important to understand the warts, and there are plenty of

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Speaker 3: warts in our history, but it's also important to understand

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Speaker 3: the noble achievements of our history. We need to know

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Speaker 3: about slavery and segregation. We cannot sweep those under under

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Speaker 3: the rug or pretend they didn't happen. Our young people

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Speaker 3: have to know their history, and they have to know

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Speaker 3: that stuff and how terrible it was that. They also

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Speaker 3: have to know of our achievements. They have to know

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Speaker 3: that we did abolish slavery. A human constant, a constant

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Speaker 3: through human history. Slavery wasn't invented in the United States.

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Speaker 3: It was a constant through history and virtually all societies,

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Speaker 3: and we got rid of it. It was replaced by segregation,

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Speaker 3: which was terrible, but we got rid of that too.

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Speaker 3: We destroyed the great totalitarian systems that arose in the

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Speaker 3: twentieth century, Soviet communism and German and Italian fascism and

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Speaker 3: Nazism in Germany. Those achievements are part of the story,

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Speaker 3: just as the bad stuff is part of the story.

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Speaker 3: Our young people need to know the whole truth, uncolored, unvarnished, unwhitewashed,

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Speaker 3: but also unblackwashed. They've got to know the great achievements

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Speaker 3: as well as the failings. And they also need to

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Speaker 3: know that they too are fallible. They too are going

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Speaker 3: to believe things that turn out to be false and

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Speaker 3: to be wrong. If we look at human history, the

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Speaker 3: greatest minds, the greatest characters, the greatest figures who've existed

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Speaker 3: have made mistakes and mistakes not only about minor trivial things,

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Speaker 3: but about some very big things. And even well intentioned

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Speaker 3: people can make grave mistakes. The progressive movement embraced eugenics

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Speaker 3: in the nineteen teens and nineteen twenties and into the

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Speaker 3: nineteen thirties. They don't like to admit that today, but

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Speaker 3: that's part of their history. They embraced it, they were

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Speaker 3: up to their eyeballs in it. And it was only

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Speaker 3: when the Nazis finally picked it up from the Progressives

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Speaker 3: and gave it a bad name that the Progressives dropped

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Speaker 3: it and now try to pretend that they had not

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Speaker 3: embraced it. But that's part of their history, and it's

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Speaker 3: part of our history, and we need to know about

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Speaker 3: that precisely so we don't make mistakes like that again.

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Speaker 3: Now we will make mistakes, we'll make different mistakes, but

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Speaker 3: we're going to do better than we would otherwise do

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Speaker 3: if we learn from the mistakes that have been made

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Speaker 3: in our history.

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Speaker 1: I think that is the beauty of Christianity.

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Speaker 2: If you look at the word of God, the Word

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Speaker 2: of God is filled with Hey, look, I chose this person.

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Speaker 2: They screwed up. They saw how they screwed up. They

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Speaker 2: were able to still do amazing things. We will all

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Speaker 2: screw up, we will all misinterpret, we will all make mistakes,

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Speaker 2: but there's always still a path to do right.

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Speaker 1: I think that we've.

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Speaker 2: Gotten away from Christianity, so there aren't that many people

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Speaker 2: that are reading the Bible. I think a lot of

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Speaker 2: our college students, and you can correct me if I'm

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Speaker 2: wrong here on campus every day, but I think a

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Speaker 2: lot of our college students have kind of stepped away

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Speaker 2: from faith or religion of any kind.

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Speaker 1: In there, you know, it's all about me. It's all

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Speaker 1: about means.

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Speaker 2: And that book, those stories, the parables, everything that you

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Speaker 2: learn there is a preparation for what you will experience

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Speaker 2: in life and the mistakes that you will make, and

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Speaker 2: that there will be times you will come back with

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Speaker 2: your tail between your legs and say, I don't think

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Speaker 2: you should accept me, but here I am, and yet

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Speaker 2: you will be accepted. How do you get that across

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Speaker 2: to young people today who are so sure in what

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Speaker 2: they're saying, and they have gone past, like I said again,

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Speaker 2: past civility to the point of making mistakes that sure,

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Speaker 2: we know you can come back from. But once you

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Speaker 2: get a group of people so large that are saying

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Speaker 2: the same thing, it can overturn the beauty that is America.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it's certainly true that we increasingly live

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Speaker 3: in an era of narcissism. And it's not just on

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Speaker 3: the left, by the way, now we have a problem

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Speaker 3: on the right as well. It's me me, me, me, me, me,

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Speaker 3: myself and I we forget that, we we get the hour.

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Speaker 3: We also get absorbed into ourselves. And this is connected

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Speaker 3: with that identitarianism that I criticized earlier, the narcissism of

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Speaker 3: our age. And we have to help our young men

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Speaker 3: and women to avoid it, or to the extent that

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Speaker 3: they've already gotten themselves and meshed in it, to get

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Speaker 3: out of it, to separate themselves from it. Now we

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Speaker 3: have two basic ways of doing that, and we have

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Speaker 3: to use both of those ways. One is by teaching

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Speaker 3: by precept, by talking. We need to make the case

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Speaker 3: against identitarianism, against narcissism, in favor of a belief that

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Speaker 3: there are things more important than me that I should

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Speaker 3: be devoting myself to. But even more importantly is example.

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Speaker 3: It's modeling. We need to teach our young people by

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Speaker 3: precept and by example. They need to see grown ups.

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Speaker 3: They need to see people in positions of influence and

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Speaker 3: authority who model the virtues that we want to transmit

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Speaker 3: to our young people, who are able to push away

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Speaker 3: the narcissism, who don't fall into the identitarianism, who are

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Speaker 3: not dogmatists, who are not ideologues, people who are willing

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Speaker 3: to enter into dialogue and discussion with people even if

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Speaker 3: they deeply disagree with him. I don't know if you're

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Speaker 3: familiar with the work that I do with my friend

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Speaker 3: Cornell West, who's now running for president. Professor West and

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Speaker 3: I have very different political views. We're at opposite ends

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Speaker 3: of the political spectrum. We disagree about just about everything

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Speaker 3: in politics, and yet we teach together. We've taught wonderful

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Speaker 3: courses together at Princeton when he was a professor here.

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Speaker 3: He's now moved on first to Harvard and now to

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Speaker 3: Union Theological Seminary. But since we're no longer able to

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Speaker 3: teach together, we take our show on the road. We

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Speaker 3: go around the country to colleges and universities and other institutions,

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Speaker 3: and we try to model the virtues that we want

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Speaker 3: to see in our young people. And I think that's

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Speaker 3: just terribly important. I'm not sure if this is apocryphal

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Speaker 3: or whether he actually said it, but it's a beautiful sentiment.

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Speaker 3: The Great Saint, the great medieval Saint, Saint Francis of

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Speaker 3: Assisi is said to have said, preach the gospel always,

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Speaker 3: if necessary, use words, And of course what he's referring

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Speaker 3: to there is that we send the gospel message. We

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Speaker 3: preach the gospel more by the way we lead our lives,

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Speaker 3: by the example we set, than even by the words. Now,

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Speaker 3: you do need the words. It's important to use the

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Speaker 3: words right, and we need to. We need to exhort

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Speaker 3: our students and teach our students. We have to teach

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Speaker 3: them by precept as well as by example. But we

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Speaker 3: also need the example, and we have to avoid at

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Speaker 3: all costs hypocrisy. Young people will smell that a mile away.

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Speaker 3: If you're telling them one thing and then behaving in

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Speaker 3: a way that's in consistent with what you're telling them,

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Speaker 3: they're not going to take you seriously at all. So

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Speaker 3: tutor by precept and example. I think all of us

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Speaker 3: across the ideological and political spectrum need to take the

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Speaker 3: responsibility to model genuine civil discourse, intellectual humility, of willingness

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Speaker 3: to engage with others, taking seriously our own fallibility, embracing

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Speaker 3: the virtue of intellectual humility. We need to show our

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00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 3: young people by our example how to do it.

435
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on

436
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon Podcast. There's not many professors like you, though.

437
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: I mean, that is one of the things that we're

438
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 1: up against. We don't necessarily see this on college campuses.

439
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,199
Speaker 1: And I think something you said I want to go

440
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: back to about narcissism. We live in a society.

441
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 2: Where you are taught everything that is coming at you

442
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,719
Speaker 2: on a regular basis is telling you to be a narcissist.

443
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 1: Put you first.

444
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 2: It's all about me, me, me, How many likes can

445
00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 2: you you get, how many people will follow you? It's

446
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 2: all about you. I mean, things are designed now to

447
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 2: be addictive. To care about yourself. It's not about being

448
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,360
Speaker 2: addictive to care for others. It's not mission work, it's

449
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 2: not helping with kids. It's all about what can I get.

450
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 2: And even when you see young people interviewed today, they're

451
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 2: talking about their likes and their viral moment.

452
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 1: And whether or not they can do this.

453
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 2: I mean, we've even seen some of these influencers die

454
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 2: because they're trying to get a picture no one else

455
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 2: could get because everybody else would have died taking it.

456
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 2: They fall off of the edge of a mountain or so.

457
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 2: I mean, it's gotten to the point where it's so bizarre.

458
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 2: The narcissism is so bizarre that it's become deadly. So

459
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 2: how do we as a society shift away from that?

460
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,360
Speaker 2: When it is a it is so powerful what happens

461
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,919
Speaker 2: on social media and just the influence of the outside

462
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 2: forces right now or bigger than even in some cases family, that's.

463
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 3: Certainly true, Tutor. I'm going to say something now that

464
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 3: might seem a little scandalous coming from a conservative event

465
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 3: a Republican and on both of those things, but I'm

466
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 3: gonna say it anyway because I think it's true. One

467
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 3: of my great intellectual heroes a great influence on me

468
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 3: was the late, very great public intellectual Irving Crystal. And

469
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 3: Irving Crystal was famous for, among other things, his statement

470
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 3: of two cheers for capitalism? Now, why too, why not

471
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,719
Speaker 3: three cheers for capitalism? Especially from conservatives and Republicans? Right,

472
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 3: we're for capital we're certainly against socialism. We're for capitalism, right,

473
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 3: but why only two cheers? Why not three cheers? The

474
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:46,400
Speaker 3: reason why not three cheers is that capitalism can only

475
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 3: be humanizing and contribute to the flourishing of human beings

476
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 3: if it is constrained within moral boundaries. The market, unconstrained

477
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 3: by moral considerations, will sell you and will sell our

478
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:08,880
Speaker 3: young people anything, pornography, drugs, prostitute, you name it. The market,

479
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 3: just by itself, abstracted from morality, is just a machine

480
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 3: for generating you know, wealth, and sales and and you

481
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 3: know people, people getting ahead. We need to be very

482
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 3: concerned about what is for sale. There are some things

483
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 3: that shouldn't be for sale. And just because the market

484
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 3: generates an outcome, we mustn't conclude that that outcome is

485
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 3: right or just today. Market forces can do enormous damage

486
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 3: to young people if they're not constrained by moral considerations

487
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 3: and by policies that are informed by a sound morality.

488
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,199
Speaker 3: And we only conservative sides have to conservative side have

489
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 3: to recognize that. So, yes, we're for the free market.

490
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 3: We're against the command economy, and there is far too

491
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 3: much government regulation. Taxes are far to other Republicans or

492
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,360
Speaker 3: write about all that stuff. But two cheers for capitalism, observing,

493
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 3: Crystal said not three.

494
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 2: I think that what you're talking about is also creeping

495
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 2: into the political world, and I guess I would see it.

496
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 2: Maybe some people wouldn't necessarily see it as capitalism, but

497
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 2: it is taking opportunity, and we've seen this on the

498
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 2: Republican side. One that comes to mind right now is

499
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 2: in Michigan, one of our Democrat state legislators just put

500
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 2: in a bill to get tax credits for film making

501
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 2: in Michigan. We've done this before, it hasn't worked. She

502
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 2: wants to bring Hollywood to Michigan. The interesting part about

503
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 2: it is that this person is on the Education committee.

504
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 2: She's supposed to be looking out for our students. Now

505
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 2: Big Education has come back and say, how could you

506
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 2: do this? This will take money away from our schools.

507
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 2: You know, if you give these tax credits for films.

508
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 2: We have already seen this, it takes away from our

509
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 2: teachers in the classroom. The person who is putting this

510
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 2: bill in also is a film producer. And so what

511
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 2: happens when political power and capitalism come together, but in

512
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 2: a very nefarious way where you pass a bill for

513
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 2: your own personal financial benefit to the detriment of our

514
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 2: students who are already suffering greatly in the state of Michigan.

515
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: How do you even unpack that.

516
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 3: You know, money's a great thing, we all need it.

517
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 3: It's important, but it's a merely instrumental good. It's not

518
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 3: something good in itself. As I say to my students,

519
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 3: it's one of those things. Money is like power, it's

520
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 3: like influence, it's like prestige. Those things matter, and I

521
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 3: can understand why students aspire to them. We all to

522
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 3: some extent as fire to them. They matter, but at

523
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 3: the end of the day, not all that much. They're

524
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 3: not like the things that really matter. The things that

525
00:29:55,880 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 3: really matter are faith, family, friendship, dignity, integrity, honor. Why

526
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 3: do those things really matter? Because they're the things. Those

527
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 3: are the things that are valuable, not as means to

528
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 3: other ends, not just as instrumentally now, but as ends

529
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 3: in themselves. They're the very essence of our flourishing as

530
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 3: human beings, as the kinds of creatures that we that

531
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 3: we are, as those of us who are religious would say,

532
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 3: as God made us to be. So we need to

533
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 3: especially again in bringing up and forming our young people,

534
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 3: to make sure that they understand what is important, what matters,

535
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 3: but not all that much at the end of the day,

536
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 3: and the things that really matter. David Brooks has a

537
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 3: nice way of putting this. He says, there's some virtues

538
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 3: or values that are appropriate for your CV, for your resume.

539
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 3: I went to Yale, you know, I graduated Atsuma cum Lada.

540
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 3: You know I clerked at the Supreme Court. I'm a

541
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 3: partner at Cravats Wayne and More. No, those belong on

542
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 3: your CV, but they don't belong on your tombstone. What's

543
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 3: your tombstone going to say. It's not went to Yale,

544
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 3: graduated Summa Cumlada. It's going to say faithful husband, loving father.

545
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 3: It's going to attend to the things that really matter.

546
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 3: And too often in leading our lives, we're distracted away

547
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 3: from the things that really matter, the stuff that we

548
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 3: hope our tombstone will say, we're distracted away from that

549
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 3: by our preoccupation with those CV virtues and values, the

550
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 3: things that matter, but not all that much.

551
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: Oh man, it's so true.

552
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 2: I think there was nothing clearer to me than the

553
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 2: moment that we lost my dad in the last few

554
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 2: weeks of his life, because I thought, you know, here's

555
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 2: this man who has traveled all over the world. He's

556
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 2: gotten awards for his knowledge in making rail castings for

557
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 2: this in the steel industry. He was the president of Stale,

558
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 2: founder society. At the end of his life, he didn't say,

559
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 2: show me up my awards, bring in the stale founder society,

560
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 2: have everyone stand around me. He said, you know, come

561
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 2: into my room, sit with me, talk with me, hold

562
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 2: my hand. I don't want to leave you and I beautiful.

563
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 2: After that, I just thought, gosh, for robbing these young

564
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 2: people when we tell them, don't have a baby. Do

565
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 2: focus on your career. You should have control over whether

566
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 2: or not you bring a life into this world, and

567
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 2: it shouldn't be it shouldn't be your focus.

568
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: You should focus on this other stuff.

569
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 2: I'm like, at the end of his life, all he

570
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 2: wanted were the people that he loved around him, and

571
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 2: were robbing people of that knowledge. And it just makes

572
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 2: me so sad because I feel like I had to

573
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 2: lose him to fully see that and fully understand that.

574
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: And it's a reminder every day.

575
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 2: Don't travel as much, put things aside, spend time with

576
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 2: the girls. The career is not the end all be all,

577
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 2: and it's hard. It's hard to do, Yeah, it is.

578
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 3: So you know what your father taught you in those

579
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 3: last days was about the things that really matter.

580
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, absolutely, And that is the message from this

581
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 2: I mean, thank you for coming on today, because I

582
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 2: think that's the message from this podcast is there are

583
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 2: things that really matter and the things that you feel

584
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 2: so passionate about. If there's someone incredibly passionate on the

585
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 2: other side, maybe there's something you can learn instead of

586
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 2: pushing them aside.

587
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 3: Exactly what I mean. I mean, Brother Cornell West and

588
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 3: I have not really persuaded each other very often to

589
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 3: change our views, but I think he would say what

590
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 3: I am now going to say. We have deepened each

591
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 3: other's understanding of the issues, in part by making each

592
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 3: other see complexities to the issues that otherwise we would

593
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 3: not have seen. And that happened because each of us

594
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 3: allowed the other and continues to allow the other to

595
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 3: challenge him, to question him. And we don't take it

596
00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 3: personally as a personal attack. If he says, I agree

597
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 3: with you about life, or about marriage, or about whatever

598
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 3: the issue is.

599
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 2: But I see a true joy in you talking about

600
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 2: the relationship. And even if it's not that you're going

601
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 2: to learn something about the other side of the issue

602
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 2: that's going to convert you, it's that you may be

603
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 2: missing out on an incredibly genuine person.

604
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 3: Exactly right at the end of the day. That's what

605
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:20,800
Speaker 3: it's all about.

606
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 2: I always see people who say I want to look

607
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 2: like this person, and you see suddenly everybody has the

608
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 2: same lips in the same eyes, and everybody is the same.

609
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 2: And I'm like, the beauty is in our differences. That's

610
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,839
Speaker 2: where you find the most creativity from God. That's where

611
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 2: you find the most joy in life is finding the

612
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 2: differences in people. And if you are unwilling, if you

613
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,800
Speaker 2: want to just stay in your lane with your blinders

614
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 2: on and say everybody's the same, you miss so much.

615
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say theologically that God creates on a

616
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,280
Speaker 3: retail basis, not on a wholesale basis.

617
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, he creates.

618
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,720
Speaker 3: Each human being is custom made. It's like a custom

619
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 3: made suit, right, It's not off the rack. Human beings

620
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 3: are not created off the rag. They're all precious and different.

621
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 3: I'm the eldest of five children in my family, all boys,

622
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 3: five brothers, and we are as close as you can

623
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,280
Speaker 3: possibly be. I mean, growing up, I used to say,

624
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 3: you know, we're so close. Sometimes I forget which one

625
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:24,240
Speaker 3: I am. At the same time, we are all so different.

626
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 3: We grew up in the same house with the same

627
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 3: parents and the same influences, but we have different interests,

628
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 3: different talents, different abilities, different fashions, different versions, different sensibilities.

629
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 3: As close as we are, human beings are, so it's

630
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 3: amazing that there can be so many of us, with

631
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 3: each being distinctive. It's like the human face, true faces,

632
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 3: unless you're identical twins, and even there they're not exactly alike.

633
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 3: But no two faces are alike. How can that be

634
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 3: true when there are so many human beings that have

635
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 3: been throughout throughout history. Well, those those those differences don't

636
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 3: just aren't just at the superficial level. We're different from

637
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 3: anybody else all the way through. Each of us is

638
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:14,439
Speaker 3: a unique, distinct, precious being. It's so true love by God.

639
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 3: I mean, how cool is that?

640
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 1: I know? I think that's the joy of family.

641
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:20,919
Speaker 2: And that's the thing that makes me sad when people

642
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 2: say I don't need this because I look at my kids.

643
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 2: I have four girls, so we're in a girl family. Yes,

644
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,320
Speaker 2: but it's the same. And I have twins. They're not identical,

645
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 2: but I do have twins, and it's amazing to see

646
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,399
Speaker 2: exactly right they then they're super close, but they all

647
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 2: obviously have grown up together and everyone you look at them,

648
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 2: and you're like, there's so much How is it that

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00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 2: you can come from the same parents, live in the

650
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 2: same house, be so different and be so amazing And

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00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 2: that's the beauty of the creator. And I think that's amazing,

652
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,800
Speaker 2: and that's what I want everybody to kind of enjoy

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00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 2: and be a part of. And that I think is

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00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 2: the frustration for me when I hear people say, oh,

655
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 2: a portion abortion, abortion, abortion, and I'm like, oh, gosh,

656
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 2: who are you getting rid of that you didn't get

657
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 2: to know and didn't get to love and didn't get

658
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 2: to see how unique and creative and amazing that they are.

659
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: But it's just a matter.

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00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 2: Of continuing to talk and continue to have conversations like these,

661
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 2: and over time, I believe that people see it in

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00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 2: different ways. And like you said, there are things that

663
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 2: you learn over time you don't know until you've gotten there.

664
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 2: And I've had that experience, and I hope that our

665
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 2: young people will at least be open minded enough to

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00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 2: continue to learn throughout life.

667
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 3: Exactly right. I see my calling as a teacher to

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00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 3: form the young men and women and trusted to my

669
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,800
Speaker 3: charge and trusted to my care to be determined truth

670
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 3: seekers and courageous truth speakers and lifelong learners. And I

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00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 3: believe that if we achieve that goal as teachers, if

672
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 3: we form our young people to be determined truth seekers

673
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 3: and courageous truth speakers and lifelong learners, they will also

674
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 3: be the very best of good citizens.

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00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate you coming on here today. They are very,

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00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 2: very lucky to have. Everybody who's listening, Do not forget

677
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 2: this is Professor Robert P.

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00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 1: George. You are really truly a gift to education, and

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00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you joined us.

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00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 3: Thank you, Tutor. It's a pleasure to be on with you.

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00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 2: Thank you absolutely, and thank you all for listening to

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00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 2: the Tutor Dixon Podcast. As always, for this episode and others,

683
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 2: go to Tutor dixonpodcast dot com or head over to

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00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

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00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 2: podcasts and join us next time on the Tutor Dixon Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Have a blessed ding