Speaker 1: Hi, This is Malan Vervier and this is Kim Azarelli.
Speaker 1: We are co authors of the book Fast Forward, How
Speaker 1: Women Can Achieve Power and Purpose. And you're listening to
Speaker 1: Seneca Women Conversations on Power and Purpose, brought to you
Speaker 1: by the Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the special edition. During these difficult times, we're
Speaker 1: talking to experts who can help us gain perspective on
Speaker 1: the impact of the coronavirus, as well as share tips,
Speaker 1: resources and some much needed inspiration. Today I'm joined by
Speaker 1: Dr Laura Casper. Dr Casper is a San Francisco based
Speaker 1: psychologist and an ad John clinical faculty member at Stanford
Speaker 1: Medical School. Welcome to the show. Thank you well. Um,
Speaker 1: you know it's an unusual time, but we are very
Speaker 1: grutiful for what you do. Um as a psychologist, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, we have kind of a new living arrangements
Speaker 1: pretty much knew everything for a lot of people. So
Speaker 1: due to the coronavirus, obviously people are spending more time
Speaker 1: at home with their families more than ever and so, uh,
Speaker 1: this probably could be a tough time for intimate relationships.
Speaker 1: Are you Are you finding them? Oh? Absolutely? I mean
Speaker 1: what I'm seeing is you know, twenty four seven time
Speaker 1: at home with our partners is basically putting a magnifying
Speaker 1: glass on our differences and how we cope, you know,
Speaker 1: how we cope with fear, uncertainty, and feeling out of
Speaker 1: control in general and specifically the threat to safety and help.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say it puts a magnifying glass on
Speaker 1: our own our own weak points as well. Absolutely. I
Speaker 1: mean what I was gonna say too, is, you know,
Speaker 1: it's highlighting the ways that we've been meeting our needs
Speaker 1: outside our relationships, you know, in good ways like going
Speaker 1: to the gym and meeting our friends and our acting,
Speaker 1: my colleagues and all those things that are good ways
Speaker 1: of meeting our needs and importance. But it's also showing
Speaker 1: the ways that that maybe we've been avoiding dealing with
Speaker 1: tension in our relationships by sort of going outside sometimes.
Speaker 1: So so those tensions are more present right now I
Speaker 1: think then than before. And how are you finding people
Speaker 1: are coping with that kind of new reality. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: they're coping in a lot of different ways. Um. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's generating a lot more tension than I've ever seen before. Um.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think people are. You know, I think
Speaker 1: people are being creative there. They're they're realizing that they're
Speaker 1: not seeing their friends or they're not seeing their colleagues
Speaker 1: to work, so they're trying to schedule a little bit
Speaker 1: more kind of talk time with a friend or you know,
Speaker 1: let's have a let's have a happy hour, you know
Speaker 1: where we all get on video. I mean, I can
Speaker 1: see there's ways that people are really coping creatively, and
Speaker 1: and in physical environments where I mean some people have
Speaker 1: the luxury of having bigger spaces, but some people have
Speaker 1: pretty small spaces. How do you create space? Um, when
Speaker 1: you're living in a time space, how do you create
Speaker 1: that mental space? Yeah? You know, I mean I think
Speaker 1: that Um. I think that's the biggest thing that I've
Speaker 1: been helping people with is is this is the time
Speaker 1: to develop our relationships with ourselves, you know. And and
Speaker 1: so fear and resentment right now are kind of a gift,
Speaker 1: and it's a gift to help each of us pay
Speaker 1: attention to what are we feeling and what are we
Speaker 1: needing for ourselves? You know, and so so to ask ourselves,
Speaker 1: you know, do do I need to take a walk?
Speaker 1: Do I need to do I need to just if
Speaker 1: there's no other room, do I need to go to
Speaker 1: the bathroom and just have a moment by myself. But
Speaker 1: just actually creating some of those um physical barriers, telling
Speaker 1: your partner, you know that you need a little time,
Speaker 1: like hey, I'm going to go lie down the bed
Speaker 1: and I'm just going to take a little break, or
Speaker 1: I need to you know, go read read or write
Speaker 1: in my journal or do something, you know, like using
Speaker 1: using sitting in the car. I mean, that's actually been
Speaker 1: I've had a lot of clients sort have had therapy
Speaker 1: sessions in the car. Asking your partner to put on
Speaker 1: noise canceling headphones and listen to something, you know, even
Speaker 1: if they're in another room. To create kind of privacy
Speaker 1: has also been something I've creative I've seen people do
Speaker 1: both with therapy sessions but also with with meetings, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean what people are realizing, like how often their
Speaker 1: partners are on meetings, and just even having somebody talking
Speaker 1: in the space at the same time as you can
Speaker 1: be um can be agitating, you know, just kind of
Speaker 1: keep their nervous system a little more activated, right, and
Speaker 1: then you add kids to the mix, and that people
Speaker 1: are homeschooling, and that's a whole new dynamic. And apparently
Speaker 1: homeschooling is pretty hard, so people have a profound new
Speaker 1: appreciation for teachers. Absolutely. Absolutely, Yeah, the depth of empathy
Speaker 1: that my clients who have children have is been profound.
Speaker 1: That's an interesting point because you were saying that it's
Speaker 1: really important to sort of get to know yourself a
Speaker 1: little better and start this new relationship with yourself and
Speaker 1: kind of understand what you need. And I guess it's
Speaker 1: also probably a great time to try to have a
Speaker 1: little empathy for your partner and put yourself in their
Speaker 1: shoes and see, you know, see what's going on with
Speaker 1: them as well. Oh absolutely, I mean, you know, when
Speaker 1: when intension is coming up, you know, if if we
Speaker 1: stay in our sort of you know, I'm right, your
Speaker 1: wrong positions, you know, that's just going to to make
Speaker 1: a fight worse or just keep it going versus you know,
Speaker 1: actually taking this as an opportunity to learn something about
Speaker 1: your partner, genuinely listen to how they're feeling and what
Speaker 1: their concerns are, you know, and treat them with respect
Speaker 1: in that conversation. Just really upping the empathy game right now.
Speaker 1: I mean that's going to turn differences into into a blessing.
Speaker 1: Right now, do you have any kinds tips or tricks
Speaker 1: for how to diffuse a situation when it's starting to escalate,
Speaker 1: because I know there's there's that easy opportunity when everyone's
Speaker 1: under so much stress. Oh absolutely, I mean I think,
Speaker 1: you know, I think when escalation happens, the best thing
Speaker 1: and we need time outs just as much as kids do,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean I think sometimes we don't like
Speaker 1: to admit that, but it's true. You know, it's true,
Speaker 1: you know, And so I think the best way to
Speaker 1: get to be a really just name it and just agree,
Speaker 1: like let's just take a break. Let's just you know,
Speaker 1: give ourselves tenorfit humans or come back with tomorrow. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's the that is the single best way to de
Speaker 1: escalate any kind of situation. I Mean, one thing that
Speaker 1: I've heard coupled to heard people to is is also
Speaker 1: just like let's turn onto music and just shake this out,
Speaker 1: Like just just change the mindset, right, just like have
Speaker 1: fun in this moment and maybe they come back to
Speaker 1: the conflict at that moment or maybe they don't, but
Speaker 1: just kind of change the energy is really important. So
Speaker 1: you wrote a really interesting piece for The Bold italic
Speaker 1: Um that gives some relationships tips when dealing with COVID nineteen,
Speaker 1: and one of your tips is to have some fun,
Speaker 1: which I think what you're alluding to, how can you
Speaker 1: build that into your kind of schedule? And do you
Speaker 1: recommend schedules? I do recommend schedules. Yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: think that I think that we you know, even taking
Speaker 1: from some of the kind of depression and anxiety literature,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we all do better with the schedule,
Speaker 1: and we at we see this in kids, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: kids do better with stressful and so when we are
Speaker 1: under a great amount of stress, we needed to so
Speaker 1: so I absolutely think that schedules are important. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think what building in fun and building in play,
Speaker 1: It's an attitude, right, It's it's sort of a it's
Speaker 1: a choice to say we're going to make this incredibly stressful,
Speaker 1: fearful time that that has a lot of it's having
Speaker 1: a lot of negative consequences globally, nationally and you know
Speaker 1: even in some of our friends and families, but like
Speaker 1: in the in the moments in life, taking the attitude
Speaker 1: of trying to bring some lightness or play in where
Speaker 1: we can, you know, is what we is what we
Speaker 1: have control over. Um. But but you know, but I don't.
Speaker 1: I also don't want to minimize that that for some people,
Speaker 1: the idea of trying to bring fun when it's got
Speaker 1: to loved one who's in the hospital or something, you know,
Speaker 1: something that's actually really roster job stressed out about their job. Like,
Speaker 1: it's not easy to do. It's not easy to do.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're kind of getting the heart of it,
Speaker 1: which is that these are really uncertain, unusual and very
Speaker 1: very hard times for most people or from people, I
Speaker 1: should say, And so how do you deal, I mean
Speaker 1: with that level of stress, not just with your partners?
Speaker 1: But is there is there something that you're recommending in
Speaker 1: terms of stress management? Yeah, you know, I think the
Speaker 1: biggest thing that I'm trying to remember right now is
Speaker 1: that I'm trying to encourage my clients to remember, is
Speaker 1: that we are all scared and feeling out of control.
Speaker 1: And that's that is generally everyone's big fine right now.
Speaker 1: And that kind of fear and powerlessness can easily translate
Speaker 1: into getting controlling, or feeling frustrated or feeling tentioning all
Speaker 1: this sort of really negative card stuff, both with ourselves
Speaker 1: and with others, and so you know, the antidote right
Speaker 1: now is just compassion, you know, compassion for ourselves, remembering
Speaker 1: that we're scared, we're feeling out of control. And you
Speaker 1: know when we look at our earners, do we look
Speaker 1: at our kids or colleagues, just remembering that, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of seeing it through their eyes, the same thing
Speaker 1: they you're feeling like, we're all feeling that and trying
Speaker 1: to remember that together. I think that's kind of the
Speaker 1: best medicine right now. That's wonderful. And I think that's
Speaker 1: so much in line with what you know we feel
Speaker 1: at Seneca, which is that if we could, even if
Speaker 1: we could do something, one little small thing for someone, um,
Speaker 1: that actually can change dimensionally the way you're feeling and
Speaker 1: the way you're looking at the world. And so it's
Speaker 1: so hard to to get out of what's going on
Speaker 1: right now. But I think what you're saying is so
Speaker 1: important that compassion and kindness towards yourself, towards others, towards
Speaker 1: the community. I think I heard a really great example
Speaker 1: of someone who just all little things that people can do.
Speaker 1: For example, someone was ordering take out for people who
Speaker 1: didn't necessarily have enough to you know, enough to eat
Speaker 1: really because so many people are struggling right now, and
Speaker 1: to support the local restaurant and to support people. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's just so many ways that you can help a
Speaker 1: neighbor or help somebody, to help yourself. Really, that's right,
Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah, we can feel good. They feel good
Speaker 1: when we're expressing compassion. And whether that's just expressing compassion
Speaker 1: emotionally or just you know, holding somebody with compassion versus
Speaker 1: maybe keeping a compassion in action, you know, it all,
Speaker 1: it all seeds the compassion. Well, we'll be back after
Speaker 1: this break. So if you make it through this with
Speaker 1: your partner, do you feel like you'll be well on
Speaker 1: your way for the for the next chapter. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I think we all will, right, I mean, I
Speaker 1: think I think it's really an opportunity to up level
Speaker 1: ourselves and our relationships that way. You know, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's times a great stress that we've learned kind of
Speaker 1: who we are and what we're made of and and
Speaker 1: what the If we can kind of grow from the challenges,
Speaker 1: then hopefully we're all stronger. Yeah. So true. I heard
Speaker 1: someone early on say, which I thought was kind of funny,
Speaker 1: but it actually resonated with me. They said, listen, this
Speaker 1: is either going to be Corona divorce or Corona romance.
Speaker 1: We're going to have to decide it's going to be.
Speaker 1: Maybe being intentional helps. Have you found people kind of
Speaker 1: trying to work at their relationships every day and make
Speaker 1: that a priority? Um, are you recommending that as well? Yeah?
Speaker 1: You know, I definitely am. I mean, you know, um,
Speaker 1: there's time at home without the distractions of of work
Speaker 1: and you know, or leaving. I should say there's they're
Speaker 1: still work at home, but kind of leaving and traveling
Speaker 1: and all these things like being together. It is an
Speaker 1: opportunity to you know, work on both our relationships to
Speaker 1: ourselves and our partners. I think it's a huge opportunity. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's a huge opportunity. So I am seeing couples.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I think we're also hearing a
Speaker 1: little bit of the you know, people are also feeling
Speaker 1: pressure to kind of personal growth and optimize personal growth
Speaker 1: while we've got all this time and and so I'm
Speaker 1: definitely not encouraging people to sort of push themselves too much.
Speaker 1: You know, It's like what's what's available, what's possible. It's
Speaker 1: an opportunity that feels right. Take it if it doesn't,
Speaker 1: you know, don't don't work too hard. We're under a
Speaker 1: lot of stress right now, so you know, doing what
Speaker 1: works and not what's not with too much such good advice. Well,
Speaker 1: it's wonderful to talk to you. So what what makes
Speaker 1: you optimistic in this moment? I think it's related that
Speaker 1: what we're talking about, you know. I think that we
Speaker 1: live in a culture that encourages us to look outside
Speaker 1: our self or validation is to film it, you know,
Speaker 1: the next promotion, the next Instagram, the case and posts
Speaker 1: which leads a lot of people to my office door,
Speaker 1: you know. And and while there's so much fear and
Speaker 1: warrior and vulnerability that we're all facing right now, I'm
Speaker 1: optimistic because of the slowing down, because of the removal
Speaker 1: removal of distractions wean it's giving us the gift of
Speaker 1: time and mental space to to work on these relationships
Speaker 1: and and from my perspective, the space to improve the
Speaker 1: one relationship that's actually the key to mental health, which
Speaker 1: is the one with ourselves. Kind of re evaluate what
Speaker 1: you value, what you're doing, and how you're living your life. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: how you're being well. Thank you so much. It is
Speaker 1: so great to have you on the show. We appreciate
Speaker 1: everything you're doing to help couples get through this difficult period. Um.
Speaker 1: Is there a way listeners could learn more about your work? Absolutely? Yeah.
Speaker 1: You can find me online at www dot Dr Laura
Speaker 1: Casker therapy as dot com. Fantastic. We hope to have
Speaker 1: you on the show again, and we hope you are
Speaker 1: staying well and staying safe. Thank you very much, Thank
Speaker 1: you so much too. You're listening to Seneca Women Conversations
Speaker 1: on Power and Purpose, brought to you by the Seneca
Speaker 1: Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio with support from
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Speaker 1: a great day.