Speaker 1: Hi Brian, Hi Katie. So it's Saturday morning in Los Angeles,
Speaker 1: and I must confess I was a little tired when
Speaker 1: I woke up this morning because Stand Up to Cancer
Speaker 1: was yesterday and we had a fun after party, and
Speaker 1: I was basking in the after glow of raising lots
Speaker 1: of money for cancer research. You know, as our guests
Speaker 1: would say, you were like the Beyonce of that party.
Speaker 1: You were everybody was coming up to you, and they
Speaker 1: weren't asking for autograph. I think self, not really, Brian.
Speaker 1: I think it was because there weren't many celebrities at
Speaker 1: the after party. Think so. I think everyone is very
Speaker 1: proud of you, because without you, this would not have happened.
Speaker 1: It's been going on now for ten years. You've raised
Speaker 1: half a billion dollars for cancer research, and more than that,
Speaker 1: you've really helped to revolutionize the way cancer research is done. Well,
Speaker 1: we're trying, and I have to give credit where credit
Speaker 1: is due. It takes a village. There were nine of
Speaker 1: us and all who started this organization, and of course
Speaker 1: a cast of thousands behind the show last night. So
Speaker 1: I'm glad you were there, Brian. Thank you for my
Speaker 1: incredible seat. I know Brian had a front row seat
Speaker 1: with my really close friend Wendy and her her boy
Speaker 1: toy Randy can have a boy toy when you're in
Speaker 1: your sixties. And my daughter Ellie was there with her
Speaker 1: boyfriend Mark and my niece Laura. So it was a
Speaker 1: very special night for me. Thank you for coming and
Speaker 1: thank you for supporting Stand Up to Cancer, Brian, and
Speaker 1: for any of you out there who watched and have
Speaker 1: supported this effort, Thanks to you as well. So I
Speaker 1: thought it was going to be prettyep, pretty deep, pretty tired,
Speaker 1: as Larry David would say this morning, But that changed
Speaker 1: in a nana second when I met this young man
Speaker 1: named Jonathan van Ness and he's the star of a
Speaker 1: new Netflix show called Queer Eye. Well actually it's not
Speaker 1: quite a new show. It's a reboot of a show
Speaker 1: that aired from two thousand three to two thousand seven,
Speaker 1: and that's right, it's in its second season as well.
Speaker 1: But however you describe it, it is a monster hit.
Speaker 1: And after spending just an hour with j VN as
Speaker 1: my daughter calls him, I can understand why. He is
Speaker 1: absolutely a brilliant and I don't know, I wanted to say,
Speaker 1: I'll have what he's having because the guy has more
Speaker 1: so much energy. He makes me feel like I'm on vallium.
Speaker 1: He is a uniquely enthusiastic character, but very authentic to
Speaker 1: who he is. By the way, highly intelligent, clearly incredibly
Speaker 1: well read, very engaged, and has a lot of smart
Speaker 1: informed opinions. We should say for people who don't watch
Speaker 1: the show, that queer eye. The premise is basically that
Speaker 1: these five gay guys travel to various places and they
Speaker 1: make over somebody. It used to be just a straight guy,
Speaker 1: and now it can be anyone. It can be a
Speaker 1: straight woman, it can be um. And they do more
Speaker 1: than the hair and the makeup and the house. They
Speaker 1: really help the person to kind of re examine their
Speaker 1: lives and think about their priorities in a new way.
Speaker 1: It's it's much deeper than just a kind of a
Speaker 1: makeover show. Definitely, and in many ways, I think why
Speaker 1: this show has resonated so much at a time of
Speaker 1: huge divisions in this country. It is really, I think,
Speaker 1: bridging the cultural divide and showing what we all have
Speaker 1: in common rather than what is tearing us apart. And
Speaker 1: how refreshing is that? Yeah, Verry, Yes, so we talked
Speaker 1: with Jonathan about everything from what it was like growing
Speaker 1: up in a small town Quincy, Illinois, where he was
Speaker 1: the only male cheerleader, to the experience of filming Queer
Speaker 1: I and some very conservative places in Georgia, to his
Speaker 1: hit podcast, which is called Getting Curious. We also asked
Speaker 1: Jonathan for a few makeover suggestions for Brian spoiler alert,
Speaker 1: I'm perfect. He didn't have too many. But enough about us, people,
Speaker 1: Let's get back to our guest, j b n Or
Speaker 1: Jonathan Van Ness, one of the shining stars of Queer I,
Speaker 1: one of my new favorite shows. So hold onto your hats, people,
Speaker 1: this is going to be a doozy. Should I call
Speaker 1: you Jonathan or j Van Jonathan? Obviously you can honestly
Speaker 1: either one of those. I don't care. The daughter calls
Speaker 1: you j Vin. I'm going to call you Jonathan. She's
Speaker 1: such a fan and absolutely adores you, and she and
Speaker 1: her boyfriend watched the episode with Tom you know in Georgia.
Speaker 1: I guess so many of them are in Georgia, but
Speaker 1: the first episode and they had they had the eyemask
Speaker 1: on recommended and they were watching it wearing the eye mask.
Speaker 1: I love that, you know, and I like I said,
Speaker 1: such an underrated beauty to all it really is. She's
Speaker 1: so anti inflammatory and she's so affordable, which is great.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm asking man, no, just like literal ice
Speaker 1: and little ice. Yes, have gotten into recently a cold
Speaker 1: rinse at the end of the show. It's great. It's
Speaker 1: good for your skin. You've been I don't. I always
Speaker 1: did that. It's good for your hair and your hair
Speaker 1: folical right. Yet well, it steals down your cuticle, so
Speaker 1: it makes it more didn't know, increases blood flow. It
Speaker 1: was a little shocking at first, but now I kind
Speaker 1: of like it. Befo and honey, oh my god, thank you.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about Brian in a minute, but
Speaker 1: at first I want I want to get to that
Speaker 1: first question. When you were growing up in Quincy, Illinois,
Speaker 1: what was your first inkling that you know what, I'm
Speaker 1: gay and I'm cool with that morgeous question. I think
Speaker 1: it was it must have been a both Lex commercial
Speaker 1: or like it must have been like an infomercial. Yes,
Speaker 1: I remember being like I remember seeing like an infomercial
Speaker 1: that was like for a both lex or both lex
Speaker 1: like machine, and my mom was in the room and
Speaker 1: I was like, mom, um, what am I going to
Speaker 1: get abdominals like that? Because like they like I just
Speaker 1: I loved an abdominal, honey. I was like, what is
Speaker 1: going on when you were looking at Christie Brinkley, I
Speaker 1: wasn't looking at Yes, I was like this this all
Speaker 1: this muscle honey. And and I don't know if I was,
Speaker 1: but that could have just indicated sort of vanity not
Speaker 1: necessarily section, you know, No, I was no. I was
Speaker 1: like I was curious about that. I was like my curious.
Speaker 1: And then I also feel like I was pretty clear
Speaker 1: by like kindergarten that like I was obsessed with Miss Universe.
Speaker 1: I wanted to watch Miss America Like I was like that,
Speaker 1: Like there was just like a really cute girl on
Speaker 1: Barney that had this little fringe. I was obsessed with
Speaker 1: her fringe. But then the other little boys that I
Speaker 1: was in kindergarten with, like I definitely just wanted to
Speaker 1: push them down and then run away like you're the
Speaker 1: youngest of four yeah, and and and how did your
Speaker 1: parents react to your dannus early on? I think my
Speaker 1: dad was very very troubled by it, very very worried
Speaker 1: by it. Like I would play a lot of dress
Speaker 1: up with my cousins at their house, and I remember
Speaker 1: him like walking in on me in this like fierce
Speaker 1: velvet evening gown with like a big puffy gold sleeve,
Speaker 1: and he like had a literal like nervous break like
Speaker 1: he was like like it was it was it was
Speaker 1: like five yeah, I mean it was like and then
Speaker 1: I couldn't play dress up after that. But then my
Speaker 1: aunt would like kind of still like sneak me to
Speaker 1: play dress up, but we really had to like cushion
Speaker 1: the potential arrival times of my dad, you know, nothing
Speaker 1: to extravagant if I really need to get out of
Speaker 1: it in a hurry. So did that make you feel shame?
Speaker 1: Absolutely as as a little boy, for sure, But then
Speaker 1: how did you how did you deal with that? Aunt
Speaker 1: was a big factor, you know, my aunt, My aunt
Speaker 1: least is amazing. My mom was amazing, and even my
Speaker 1: dad was amazing. I think that because also I think
Speaker 1: one thing that you have to remember about the early
Speaker 1: nineties late eighties having a flamboyantly gay son, there was
Speaker 1: obviously a lot of fear of like HIV AIDS, Like
Speaker 1: no one knew like what that disease is going to
Speaker 1: grow into, Like what was really going on with at
Speaker 1: a time. And so I remember in a very young
Speaker 1: age my dad being like like he was so worried
Speaker 1: about HIV AIDS. But like by the time I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, like eleven or like twelve, like very like,
Speaker 1: there's so much fear on that. I mean, people had
Speaker 1: been seeing people like just dropping like flies. It was
Speaker 1: like literally an epidemic like in this country, like in
Speaker 1: front of people's faces. So I think that that's actually
Speaker 1: an important thing to point out, you know, I was
Speaker 1: thinking about like all the attention even though it wasn't
Speaker 1: because he was gay. But remember Ryan White, Yes, Ryan
Speaker 1: White funding, he's so influential with with um magic. But
Speaker 1: Ryan White specifically did so much to raise awareness and funding.
Speaker 1: Because I mean, one thing that really people really don't realize,
Speaker 1: and this is insane. Ronald Reagan was the president in
Speaker 1: this country for eight years and over a hundred thousand
Speaker 1: people died a Americans died before he even uttered HIV AIDS,
Speaker 1: which wasn't until seven And then this current president eulogize
Speaker 1: as this president and all these people think that you know,
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan was just like amazing man. He presided over
Speaker 1: one of the most intense, I mean, the worst health
Speaker 1: epidemic in this country's history, and because of the people
Speaker 1: that were being affected by it, did not move a muscle,
Speaker 1: And in two thousand and eighteen, an entire party still
Speaker 1: looks back at him as he is, like he's the
Speaker 1: model of a good president. I cannot think of two
Speaker 1: people who were more falsely looked up to than the Reagans,
Speaker 1: really really, really bad. Do you think he did anything
Speaker 1: that was admirable at all? Um? You know, maybe like
Speaker 1: economically people can make a case for that, but I think,
Speaker 1: you know, especially when you think of their relationship that
Speaker 1: they had with um Rock Hudson or was it Rock
Speaker 1: Hudson the whole thing, and that personal pleaded Nancy Reagan
Speaker 1: and she like, I mean it's really very heartless, like
Speaker 1: how they treated a whole gate community of people that
Speaker 1: were dying before people's eyes and being very vocal about it.
Speaker 1: And I mean, they really hit administration, like worked tirelessly
Speaker 1: against HIV research. It's interesting that there wasn't actually even
Speaker 1: more outrage on the part of the media or even
Speaker 1: like as me as a gay man, as a thirty
Speaker 1: one year old game and every time I have to
Speaker 1: hear a Republican senator or or the president or anyone
Speaker 1: really praised the Trump administration. I think that's one thing
Speaker 1: that we really look over, is what what has administration
Speaker 1: did to this country and what has administration did to
Speaker 1: the health of this country. Yes, it's so interesting as
Speaker 1: people deify Ronald Reagan, it's not as good word. It's
Speaker 1: not as though they didn't know because Ronald and Nancy Reagan,
Speaker 1: of course lived in l a And had lots of
Speaker 1: gay friends and a number of people Nancy Reagan was
Speaker 1: close to we're actually dying this illness, and it wasn't
Speaker 1: she Wasn't she influential though in getting her husband to
Speaker 1: recognize AIDS. I mean, finally, maybe she was, but I
Speaker 1: don't think that. I actually don't know. That's a subject
Speaker 1: of some debate in controversy. And even if she was,
Speaker 1: that wasn't until seven like this was going on, and
Speaker 1: in America by like eighty one, it was like a
Speaker 1: known thing where he was president. I know that you've
Speaker 1: gotten very political, or perhaps you've always been very always now,
Speaker 1: which is great, and we're going to talk about the
Speaker 1: current state of affairs in a moment. But the Ravens
Speaker 1: on fire. First, I just want to talk to you
Speaker 1: first about sort of so growing up. So you're you
Speaker 1: said eventually your dad was very accepting, but you never
Speaker 1: really quote unquote came out. You were sort of always out. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I never. Well, I think I started answering yes to
Speaker 1: the question by the time I was in fifth sixth grade.
Speaker 1: And what was that like, because again, this was way
Speaker 1: before there were lgbt Q clubs in high schools all
Speaker 1: across America that this generation is incredibly open, so that
Speaker 1: must have been really hard. There were there was a
Speaker 1: lot of like really terrifying moments, Like Matthew Shepard was
Speaker 1: a time when I was really really I know the
Speaker 1: Shepherd's very well, and I covered that story. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I remember when Matthew Shephard was killed. And should
Speaker 1: we just mention for people who don't remember, Matthew Shepherd
Speaker 1: was a young gay man in Wyoming who was brutally
Speaker 1: murder brutally murder beaten to death and strung up like
Speaker 1: a scarecrow. And it lured out of like like he
Speaker 1: it was really like he was lured into the situation.
Speaker 1: It was. It was really one of the most evil
Speaker 1: craven disgusting as It's when I learned the phrase hate crime.
Speaker 1: Actually that's when it sort of infected exactly. But people
Speaker 1: would say to me as a you know, so I
Speaker 1: was ten by the time I was in like six
Speaker 1: and seventh grade, like that was a very common thing
Speaker 1: to be like, you know, you just like you deserve
Speaker 1: to be Matthew Shepherd, and like that was the thing
Speaker 1: that people would type. That was the people that people
Speaker 1: would say he was used as like a people would
Speaker 1: say that out loud to you. Yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: couldn't take like five steps in junior high school without
Speaker 1: someone like, you know, just saying faggot, screaming faggot, putting
Speaker 1: their hands on me. Yeah, I mean it was like very,
Speaker 1: very scary. But I always had like a really tight
Speaker 1: circle of friends. Is going to say, you must have,
Speaker 1: on the other hand, been incredibly popular because you're so
Speaker 1: carefus in that everyone knew me because I stuck out
Speaker 1: like a sore thumb. But I had like four friends,
Speaker 1: and those friends like always like amazing personalities, like very supportive.
Speaker 1: Like my best friend Emily. It was really close with
Speaker 1: her in sixth grade. I still post about her a lot.
Speaker 1: We do stand up together. She was really important to
Speaker 1: me growing up. She's probably the most important person to
Speaker 1: be growing up out. So were they quote unquote outcasts,
Speaker 1: Like you know, my friends always had like a way
Speaker 1: of like I had this other friend, Kim, who was
Speaker 1: like the prettiest girl, Like she's like the prettiest girl
Speaker 1: in junior high in high school, and so we were
Speaker 1: really Kim, Yes, so we were good friends. So she
Speaker 1: kind of like she was kind of in there, and
Speaker 1: like Emily was kind of in there. And also people
Speaker 1: who used to not make fun of me used to
Speaker 1: remember being called stuck up a lot in in junior
Speaker 1: high in high school. And I think that's because I
Speaker 1: had such a like my chest was always out like
Speaker 1: my child much confidence. Yeah, like my chin was always up.
Speaker 1: Like I think I've always been able to master the
Speaker 1: art of like faking it till you make it, like
Speaker 1: even if you are not feeling it, like I can
Speaker 1: at least convince like other people that I am. I
Speaker 1: really admire the fact that you just like embraced who
Speaker 1: you were at a very young age, when people are
Speaker 1: so insecure and doubting themselves and kind of figuring themselves out.
Speaker 1: You were the only male cheerleader at your high school,
Speaker 1: and you were kind of loud and proud about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I didn't have another way. How did this confidence
Speaker 1: survive all of the bullying and insults? I mean, I
Speaker 1: think if I were in your shoes, it would have
Speaker 1: just I don't know whether it would have literally killed me,
Speaker 1: but I would have been certainly very insecure. I'm a
Speaker 1: very passionate person. So like the Today Show, for and
Speaker 1: since every morning, like there's like little pockets of joy
Speaker 1: that I was just like obsessed with. Like I love
Speaker 1: the news, I love to read, I love pop tarts,
Speaker 1: I love how to donuts, I love figure skating, I
Speaker 1: love gymnastics, I love to read. Like there's just so
Speaker 1: many things that I love to do with my time
Speaker 1: that like I also, in eighth grade, I made this
Speaker 1: like huge post it countdown thing with like the number
Speaker 1: of days so I would graduate high school based off
Speaker 1: if I graduated in my senior year, which I end
Speaker 1: up graduating a year early. So I always knew that
Speaker 1: like eventually I would get out of there and like
Speaker 1: it would be it would be better. You knew it
Speaker 1: gets better before they did the campaign. It gets better. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's like you just gotta get out of here. Girl.
Speaker 1: It must have been your parents to helping you kind
Speaker 1: of Definitely my mom, like my mom like is you know,
Speaker 1: I think we had like a lot of very like
Speaker 1: you know, strain times as a teenager. But she definitely
Speaker 1: like has always been supportive and given me, like given
Speaker 1: me the room to be myself. You know, Yeah, she
Speaker 1: gave you room to even make mistakes for sure. Um.
Speaker 1: I did this like interpretive like lyrical dance in my
Speaker 1: sixth grade talent show to this like ghost track from
Speaker 1: like Jule's album, and I like and I just that
Speaker 1: video and I like, I actually dread it. It's going
Speaker 1: to come out somebody. I know someone has a video
Speaker 1: of it. But I like did this like hand design
Speaker 1: costume with this like gigantic like it was like a movie.
Speaker 1: It was actually very similar to the sweatshirt dress, but
Speaker 1: it was a T shirt and it had like a
Speaker 1: glitterpin um question mark on the front and then an
Speaker 1: upside down question mark on the back. You know. Because
Speaker 1: I just started taking Spanish it was sixth grade, I
Speaker 1: was like, yes, queen, I like I glittered decorated it myself.
Speaker 1: And my mom was like, I remember after I made
Speaker 1: the talent, you, honey, because everyone tried out for the talent.
Speaker 1: It was very major. And so when I made it,
Speaker 1: my mom was like, if you do this, like you
Speaker 1: will never like this will always be like your kind
Speaker 1: of thing and like you'll never like escape it really
Speaker 1: and she's like, I'm gonna be there, like I want
Speaker 1: you to do whatever makes you happy, but I just
Speaker 1: want you to really be sure. And I was like,
Speaker 1: fuck you bitch, I'm doing it like it's gonna be fierce,
Speaker 1: like you will love it. I I hate you for
Speaker 1: like even down to be like my Arabesque is gorgeous
Speaker 1: in the opening in the opening position, amzing tuney, it
Speaker 1: was amazing. I was, I mean, well, actually I remember
Speaker 1: when I actually did Sunshine. It was my little miss Sunshine.
Speaker 1: But when I did see video the first one, I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, like in my head, I was really
Speaker 1: giving you so much more, Christie, I'm a Gucci real
Speaker 1: in this, Like the jumps were higher, the roles were tighter,
Speaker 1: the leaves were much less bet legged um, but in
Speaker 1: my head it felt great. It felt great. Now did
Speaker 1: your dad show up for them? Yeah? Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: my dad and I set that there. I had a
Speaker 1: very cool like co parenting, like my mom and dad,
Speaker 1: Like they got divorced and I was young, but they
Speaker 1: really co parented like very much with my stepdad, Steve,
Speaker 1: who was amazing. Um, so I got very lucky with
Speaker 1: like my parents like divorced very well, Like you were
Speaker 1: super lucky. I think in so many ways in terms
Speaker 1: of your family situation. What about your siblings, I'm just
Speaker 1: curious how they're saying and good and fun. Yeah, they're
Speaker 1: really reproducing a lot and very well. They Actually, my
Speaker 1: one brother just moved to this other town in Illinois,
Speaker 1: Like I know the name of it, but for some reason,
Speaker 1: I feel weird about saying it. I'm like, I don't
Speaker 1: want everyone to know where my brother lives. I don't
Speaker 1: know what that's okay, do you know what else it is?
Speaker 1: It's like sometimes like I'll randomly be like Kim Kardashian
Speaker 1: got robbed in Paris, like stopp telling so much about
Speaker 1: where your family lives. Like even though like they don't
Speaker 1: have fierce jewels, like they really would be like a
Speaker 1: raft four or like a car, you know, um, maybe
Speaker 1: some nice TV's like some you know, like a nice
Speaker 1: flat screen, but not not Actually he lives in Porious.
Speaker 1: That's gorgeous, and going to wonder how queer Eyes playing
Speaker 1: in Peoria. Yeah, so obviously Quincy, Illinois, but he lives there.
Speaker 1: And then, but I have I have eight nieces and nephews,
Speaker 1: a lot of children. I'm really excited for them to
Speaker 1: all be like old enough for me to be like,
Speaker 1: you know, put on your shoes and let's go to
Speaker 1: a movie. I can't deal with kids when they're so little,
Speaker 1: like it. It really really stresses me out. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: I understand that I like kids, get a little. I
Speaker 1: do not like newborns, and I really like them when
Speaker 1: they're shoes yeah sixteen. No, No, I like them when
Speaker 1: you can kind of interact with them and they're not
Speaker 1: just sort of blobs. Sister Kiki loves newborns and I've
Speaker 1: just she said they're like hot water bottles. But I
Speaker 1: have just anyway, So obviously, Quincy, Illinois, you were too
Speaker 1: big for that town, clearly, even though you probably have
Speaker 1: great feelings towards it because of your relatively happy child.
Speaker 1: But then you went to Arizona to move on. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: I I left Quincy as soon as my little gay
Speaker 1: feat could take me, and I went to Tucson. I
Speaker 1: went to school there, but you know, really I always
Speaker 1: wanted to do hair, and so I think I really
Speaker 1: was just kind of doing that to appease the famm.
Speaker 1: You didn't want to go to college, No, but you're
Speaker 1: so smart, I'm surprised. Well, well, I did want to
Speaker 1: go to college because I wanted to get out of Quincy.
Speaker 1: But like this, this is the kind of college tude.
Speaker 1: And it was I signed up for astronomy because I
Speaker 1: thought it was a sterology and so like I was like, wait,
Speaker 1: where is the aries, where is the chart? Where is
Speaker 1: like Professor McGonagall, where is Like I don't I was
Speaker 1: just like wanting more like a Harry Potter experience. And Arizona,
Speaker 1: well just you know, I just want to college. You
Speaker 1: this like magical cute time. I didn't realize that you
Speaker 1: had to like work so hard, Like it's hard. College
Speaker 1: is like literally hard. You know, I'm gonna put that
Speaker 1: on a pillow. I don't think he's realized how hard
Speaker 1: it is to like self discipline. And so you stayed
Speaker 1: there only for a semester. I got a one point seven.
Speaker 1: It was dropped out after one semester. Yeah, because I
Speaker 1: only got one point seven, so I got kicked off
Speaker 1: the cheer squad. And then I told I was like
Speaker 1: i'd like to my mother. I was like, oh, I
Speaker 1: tell you did great. It was like I got a
Speaker 1: three point two, it's great. Great, just give me a
Speaker 1: plane ticketogo back, it's great. And then they found out
Speaker 1: that I got like the one seven, and I wasn't
Speaker 1: really cheering anymore then, and I didn't really have to
Speaker 1: talk going to school and I already like signed up
Speaker 1: for it and stuff, but I just had to start
Speaker 1: paying for it at that point. And then I went
Speaker 1: for like two weeks and I was like like I
Speaker 1: hate it. And so then I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: just take a little break. I don't go back in
Speaker 1: two weeks. I'll catch back up. It'll be fine. That
Speaker 1: never works, Like I feel like that's a recipe for
Speaker 1: just not finishing. I agree. I agree. So then you
Speaker 1: decided you were going to go full throttle into being
Speaker 1: a hairdresser, and I went. I did the fasts around,
Speaker 1: I got the gorgeous grant. I got the because like
Speaker 1: my family was like, good luck queen, and I was
Speaker 1: like great, So I um so I did like the
Speaker 1: I got some help and I didn't. I went to
Speaker 1: school and I went to the Beda Institute Minneapolis, and
Speaker 1: you know, I really instantly kind of loved it. And
Speaker 1: you've really made made a career for yourself, not only
Speaker 1: in hair dressing, but in podcasting and doing a lot
Speaker 1: of other stuff. Jonathan, before you even got involved in
Speaker 1: Queer Eye, yeah, I was working towards. I didn't know
Speaker 1: like what I was working towards. But once I did
Speaker 1: Gay of Thrones, I was like, oh my god, this
Speaker 1: is so fun. Like I love creating, I love learning,
Speaker 1: I love like entertaining. We should talk about Gay of
Speaker 1: Thrones for people who don't know. My god, it's kind
Speaker 1: of a serendipitous story. Yes it is, It really is.
Speaker 1: It is my my very good friend who just released
Speaker 1: an amazing book called Feminasty. Her name is Aaron Gibson.
Speaker 1: She was a directorate it Funnier Die, and she was
Speaker 1: a client of the woman who I worked for it
Speaker 1: my first salon in l A. We became really good
Speaker 1: friends because I was like doing her haircut. Because it's
Speaker 1: an assistant, you're not really supposed to like take on clients.
Speaker 1: But she was never going to pay those prices for
Speaker 1: color at the time, so like I just kind of like,
Speaker 1: I'll just like come to your house and do it. Well,
Speaker 1: we'll be top secret color friends. So we did that
Speaker 1: for like four years, and then in two thousand and twelve,
Speaker 1: I just moved back to California and she was do
Speaker 1: you watch a Game of Thrones? I was like, honey,
Speaker 1: like that one little evil baby boy in his sash
Speaker 1: and he does all this to this person. And we
Speaker 1: were doing a whole Yeah, I did a whole thing.
Speaker 1: And then she was like, we should do that for
Speaker 1: Funny or Die, like this is a show. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: so she really in my chair, like she created this
Speaker 1: this concept sold it to Funny or Die. It was
Speaker 1: originally supposed to be like one episode, but that episode
Speaker 1: that we did had such a reaction it you know
Speaker 1: five years later too, I mean, nominations later. We're crazy.
Speaker 1: How serendipitous is that? So it really is crazy. I
Speaker 1: also think that, like I think part of the reason
Speaker 1: that this even happened to me universally is that, like
Speaker 1: I definitely worked really hard, like once gay Thrones happened,
Speaker 1: Like I don't think I ever like turned down a job.
Speaker 1: I maintain clients or clienteles and like l A Arizona St. Louis, Like,
Speaker 1: I literally have worked like seven days a week for
Speaker 1: like years and years too, so are you still doing hair?
Speaker 1: So now I don't do here as much as I did.
Speaker 1: It was like weird. I was really really trying it.
Speaker 1: Up until April. I was still doing it like three
Speaker 1: and four days a week because I loved my clients
Speaker 1: and I want to keep doing it. But then it
Speaker 1: was like, honey, this opportunity doesn't happen that often. So like,
Speaker 1: and you're my assistant had been with me for two
Speaker 1: and a half years, so something, Melissa fly if you
Speaker 1: don't feel comfortable like with that client, like you know,
Speaker 1: not comb with that highlight yet, give it to Monique,
Speaker 1: my business partner, who can cut herself out of a
Speaker 1: like do she knew any haircut any time? Like with
Speaker 1: hair hands side behind her or handsand bite her. But
Speaker 1: she's amazing so um so yeah, So it's like I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna I'm gonna take this opportunity. I'm gonna run
Speaker 1: with it. So I'm really only doing here like once
Speaker 1: a month. You know, this is so funny because I
Speaker 1: was worried we're doing this on a Saturday morning, and
Speaker 1: I thought, oh gosh, what if Jonathan's tired and low
Speaker 1: energy and such a morning person. Fantastic, Yeah, I'm such
Speaker 1: a morning person. Are you also kind of an evening person?
Speaker 1: After like ninety or ten, I'm really tired and rest
Speaker 1: assured that if you're seeing me after nine thirty or ten,
Speaker 1: like I am really faking it. I would much rather
Speaker 1: be home. I really want to be on my couch
Speaker 1: with my cat, like I would a soon to be
Speaker 1: like seventy thousand cats because as soon as I get
Speaker 1: back to Kansas City on Tuesday from the Emmy's like,
Speaker 1: I'm going straight there. He means society, and I'm like
Speaker 1: adopting seventeen thousand cats as many pass as they have. Yes,
Speaker 1: And I'm so sorry, it's okay, but my grandparents literally
Speaker 1: had a black tea cup poodle for thirty years named
Speaker 1: JP because like when one would die, they would like
Speaker 1: go get like they would get the next one ready,
Speaker 1: like so if one died on Friday, they'd have like
Speaker 1: a new one by like Monday. And I remember morning period. No,
Speaker 1: And I just feel like I'm right and that I'm
Speaker 1: not follower from the block, like I need to shove
Speaker 1: as many black kittens with cute personalities like into the
Speaker 1: bug sized hole in my gay heart. There's I need
Speaker 1: more kittens. And also my little Harry, Larry is lonely,
Speaker 1: so I really cannot wait to my other cat, my
Speaker 1: surviving baby cat. He literally is like pacing the edges
Speaker 1: of my apartment like scream youwing, like he's never done that.
Speaker 1: He literally knows it's so weird. That's but as soon
Speaker 1: as I get to like eleven new kittens, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: stop being so sat Okay, good, all right, time for
Speaker 1: a quick break. I'm exhausted. People will be right back
Speaker 1: with Jonathan van Ness. And now back to our conversation
Speaker 1: with the one and only j Vin and Jonathan van Ess.
Speaker 1: Let's change the subject because I want to talk about
Speaker 1: queer I mean, then later I want to talk about
Speaker 1: your podcast because I think it's was so smart of
Speaker 1: you to do that too, and all all roads seem
Speaker 1: to lead to this incredible opportunity that you're you're having
Speaker 1: right now. First of all, I love the show, Thank you,
Speaker 1: I really do. And I love all of you for
Speaker 1: different reasons. And I think the show has so much
Speaker 1: heart and it's so seemingly authentic obviously. I think actually
Speaker 1: the editing is really fun. Rudos who however, does that
Speaker 1: and kind of does those interstitials people dancing or doing
Speaker 1: fun things or you know, speeding up the clouds. I
Speaker 1: think she's really well done. Show runner. One of our
Speaker 1: executive producers and show runner, her name is Jennifer Lane,
Speaker 1: and she she has so many of the qualities that
Speaker 1: my stepdad had that like made me the best version
Speaker 1: of myself in relationship with him, and I feel like
Speaker 1: she does that to like she really lets us like
Speaker 1: all be ourselves, but she just creates an environment for
Speaker 1: us to like really connect and care and be present
Speaker 1: and be passionate because she's really passionate and often people
Speaker 1: behind the scenes and Ark really is though, like so
Speaker 1: truly incredible, Like none of the five of us would
Speaker 1: be able to have the impact that we have without
Speaker 1: the people that work so hard to like to get
Speaker 1: us there. And it has been such a village that
Speaker 1: has created this and I do really feel like it's
Speaker 1: it is authentic. I feel like what you see on
Speaker 1: the show is really how it is. I Mean there's
Speaker 1: really never a time where it's like, oh, like we
Speaker 1: love that, but can you be more emotional or like that.
Speaker 1: Never we never do that. I almost can never think
Speaker 1: of a time where we shoot something twice. So even
Speaker 1: if if someone missed something or an angle is wrong
Speaker 1: or something, it's like they'll just scrap that and you
Speaker 1: don't figure it out. Yeah, just like move on it.
Speaker 1: So it really it feels like a very organic experience
Speaker 1: making the show, which is which I love. And for
Speaker 1: people who haven't seen the show, they may have heard
Speaker 1: of the first iteration of this Queer Eye for the
Speaker 1: straight up. This new version is just called Queer Eye
Speaker 1: because it's for everyone. It's not you're not just working
Speaker 1: on straight guys. What do you think are the big
Speaker 1: differences between that older version of the show and this one.
Speaker 1: I mean, I remember in one episode somebody said the
Speaker 1: first Queer Eye was about tolerance and this is about acceptance.
Speaker 1: I think that that speaks to where the community has
Speaker 1: come from two thousand and three through seven to now,
Speaker 1: because like two thousand and three to seven was like
Speaker 1: the age of Doma. It was like um defense the
Speaker 1: Marriage Act. It was very much like you know, I
Speaker 1: like to be in the same room with you, I
Speaker 1: just don't agree with your lifestyle like you should. Maybe
Speaker 1: have all the rights that I do as a hetero
Speaker 1: person in a in a married relationship, but maybe not
Speaker 1: all the same ones. And you definitely shouldn't call it
Speaker 1: marriage because she's like a sacred sanctimony. So like that
Speaker 1: was the age that we were in. Then it was
Speaker 1: like a majority support for banning gay marriage. And at
Speaker 1: that time, yeah, and so that was about like that's
Speaker 1: where that came from. And and now I think that
Speaker 1: the community is much more like you will see me
Speaker 1: as a far there, you will see me as a husband,
Speaker 1: you will like it's just there. It's like, go fuck
Speaker 1: your tolerance because like I will be here all the way.
Speaker 1: That isn't as gentle as it sounds, you know, the
Speaker 1: tons versus acceptance, but that's how I imagine it. It's
Speaker 1: you have to see me as a whole person now.
Speaker 1: And I think that the five original you know cast
Speaker 1: members are queer, I like, had all of those same beautiful,
Speaker 1: multifaceted dimensions to their to themselves, and it's nothing that
Speaker 1: they weren't able to bring to the table. I'm sure
Speaker 1: that they did bring it to the table. But a
Speaker 1: Bravo network in two thousand and three through seven is
Speaker 1: very different. From like the freedom that Netflix in two
Speaker 1: thousand and eighteen is going to give you. And and
Speaker 1: also you know, crafting a show for an American audience
Speaker 1: of two thousand and three through seven to an international
Speaker 1: audience of like a hundred and ten countries with a
Speaker 1: hundred ninety members, it was back then more of a
Speaker 1: curiosity too, you know. And we're more comfortable, Yes, I
Speaker 1: think people are more comfortable. We actually think your gayness,
Speaker 1: while it's a part of the show, it's in a
Speaker 1: way it's it's really not about five days guys, it's
Speaker 1: about five guys. Yeah, Bobby says that. I think it's
Speaker 1: really so true because to me, the show is so
Speaker 1: much more about like human connection, and it is. And
Speaker 1: also like there's been so many times where I've learned
Speaker 1: stuff from people, like lots of stuff. Because also I
Speaker 1: think the audiences have come and have come so much
Speaker 1: farther since two thousand and three to seven from now,
Speaker 1: like audiences like especially like in my age box, you know,
Speaker 1: of like four to like thirty five, Like no one
Speaker 1: is going to buy an expert shoving down something in
Speaker 1: their throat that like they know to not be authentic,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Talk about that, because I
Speaker 1: just wondered if in some of these very small conservative towns,
Speaker 1: if people don't give you all a little bit of
Speaker 1: a hard time, or if there's not a resistance the
Speaker 1: descending on there for me personally because of what I
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, Like I come from a place where, like
Speaker 1: I'm not used to walking five like to this day,
Speaker 1: if someone says fag, I turned my head, like I think,
Speaker 1: like I'm like someone's coming up behind me, someone's talking
Speaker 1: to me, Like I I still will answer to that.
Speaker 1: So like even if one like does like throw us
Speaker 1: a bunch of shade or is like being crazy or
Speaker 1: hard to work with, like I am so used to it,
Speaker 1: it doesn't move a hair on my head. Does that
Speaker 1: ever happen? I mean it struck me. But also no,
Speaker 1: like none of the heroes and none of the people
Speaker 1: and their families like that you call them heroes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well because I think that that. I mean, I didn't
Speaker 1: coin that phrase in at first. I think, and I
Speaker 1: think that a lot of people are like like when
Speaker 1: you say that, like an iver, it's like why, But
Speaker 1: I think it's like it kind of just speaks to
Speaker 1: the bread of the show, which is like people are
Speaker 1: all heroes. Like we do heroic stuff every day, like
Speaker 1: the fact that like we were like about of bed
Speaker 1: with our clothes on and like just like putting one
Speaker 1: ft in front of the other, Like it's heroic for
Speaker 1: what so many people have gone through, go through, have
Speaker 1: been through on a daily basis, Like even just like
Speaker 1: having lost my cat, Like that is so hard, Like
Speaker 1: people go through so much really devastating stuff, and I
Speaker 1: mean losing parents, using lovers, like you know, like that
Speaker 1: German cyclist like like just who like she was like
Speaker 1: she won Golden London, she won Golden Rio, and she
Speaker 1: like severed her back in a training accident like two
Speaker 1: days ago, and she's like now my arms are my
Speaker 1: legs and she's like people are so heroic like all
Speaker 1: the time. So I think why not call people here?
Speaker 1: Is like I not celebrate the things that you think
Speaker 1: that you're supposed to pull up your bootstraps and just
Speaker 1: like ho hum through life, Like why not celebrate like
Speaker 1: what we've been on the person I really one person
Speaker 1: I loved is Tom who was in the first episode
Speaker 1: because he was so open, which I really really appreciate really,
Speaker 1: you know, and and willing to have this dialogue, and
Speaker 1: I think that is what speaks to the heart and
Speaker 1: soul of this show. As I said, I think the
Speaker 1: gayness kind of falls away, but what I think gets
Speaker 1: front and center is bridging these cultural divides and these
Speaker 1: these tribalistic tendencies that we have and really in a
Speaker 1: way that's not so hitting you over the head or
Speaker 1: luxury or preachy, just kind of getting this kind of
Speaker 1: dialogue out there. Whether it's Bobby talking about growing up
Speaker 1: in an evangelical church or Tom being honest about how
Speaker 1: he felt about homosexuality. You know, those are the moments
Speaker 1: that really strike me and I think, wow, this is
Speaker 1: really achieving something you don't see many instances when people
Speaker 1: like the five of you are talking to people like
Speaker 1: Tom or the guy with six kids with the house
Speaker 1: that was just such a nightmare. But with the darling
Speaker 1: wife who loved her husband so much anyway, I think
Speaker 1: to me, that is the secret sauce of the show.
Speaker 1: For the African American lady at the beginning of with Tammy,
Speaker 1: who missed Tammy, and this was just alluded to a
Speaker 1: little bit in that episode that she was very hostile
Speaker 1: toward her gay son at first, and that was perhaps
Speaker 1: what helped drive him out of that town, and then
Speaker 1: he came back and they reconciled, and so there is
Speaker 1: a little more subtlety and awareness of people's flaws and prejudices.
Speaker 1: And Skylar, you know, Tam was very open about feeling
Speaker 1: slightly ignorant about the trans community and is such a
Speaker 1: fearless soldier and advocate and just strong, amazing man. Skylar.
Speaker 1: I love him so much, and I love Mama Tammy
Speaker 1: so much. And in fact, Gajorge just like going through
Speaker 1: this like Corey Rock thing right now, because like this
Speaker 1: big rock company's about to Corey Engage Georgia and they
Speaker 1: have this issue. And I noticed that's a lot in
Speaker 1: Atlanta actually, and I'm really hosted hoping that C. C
Speaker 1: Abrahams wins governorship there and can you know, kind of
Speaker 1: correct this. And I think that a lot of states
Speaker 1: that have one large city, like you know, whether it's
Speaker 1: Chicago and Illinois or Atlanta and Georgia and New York
Speaker 1: City and New York those states have so much adject
Speaker 1: poverty and lack of essential normal basic materials because of
Speaker 1: the way that state legislatures are set up to like
Speaker 1: really kind of like overprovide for the bigger population centers.
Speaker 1: And I mean it just feels like Javins a listening
Speaker 1: tour for presidential bid. Well well, I mean, I mean
Speaker 1: I never would, I never, ever in a million years
Speaker 1: ago into politics, but I do. I'm more of a
Speaker 1: I'm more of a recapper and more of a I
Speaker 1: have too many skeletons, honey, um don't. By the way,
Speaker 1: per the point you mentioned, in these small towns in
Speaker 1: rural areas, people vote overwhelmingly for less government, for conservatives,
Speaker 1: and they do it mainly because of cultural issues, not
Speaker 1: economic ones, or if they have an economic vent, they
Speaker 1: believe that the government just always going to fail them.
Speaker 1: And do you think that the show puts sort of
Speaker 1: two positive a gloss on people's real views on these
Speaker 1: social issues. I mean, one of the things that really
Speaker 1: led to the election of Donald Trump was just overwhelming
Speaker 1: vote share in small towns in rural areas, largely driven
Speaker 1: by discomfort with the way America is changing. Well, I
Speaker 1: don't know, people that voted for Donald Trump were more
Speaker 1: driven to vote for him because of the way that
Speaker 1: America is changing versus the overwhelmingly misogynistic, sexist coverage at
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton endured for the last twenties nine years, like
Speaker 1: of my whole life, Like she's in so much positive
Speaker 1: things that were like so vehemently covered by the media,
Speaker 1: and like really so she was so demonized. And I
Speaker 1: also noticed that in Kansas City, like the way that
Speaker 1: female politicians are demonized and covered not only by the
Speaker 1: media but also their political opponents is very starkly contrasted
Speaker 1: by when two men run against each other. What men
Speaker 1: will bring up again women is much deeper and much
Speaker 1: more sinister and much more cutting than what men bring
Speaker 1: up against them. And so so yeah, I don't think
Speaker 1: that that the show put too much gloss. And I
Speaker 1: think that at some point, when tribalistic tendencies have come
Speaker 1: so much into play and is really causing such a
Speaker 1: divide in this country, at some point you have to
Speaker 1: have an entry point into a conversation to bridge those divides.
Speaker 1: And when CNN and Fox News is so polarized and
Speaker 1: is really writing so much for headline and for clickbait
Speaker 1: and not about really educating people, are really trying to
Speaker 1: teach people to critically think, that's an issue. So I
Speaker 1: think that, yeah, I don't think that where I put
Speaker 1: too much of a glossy thing on. And also I
Speaker 1: think it's important to remember that a lot of the
Speaker 1: people that voted for Trump, like I think the Hillary
Speaker 1: was a little bit correct, and some of them are
Speaker 1: deplorable in the sense that they're racist, sexist, misogynists, causinophobic.
Speaker 1: There's also a lot of really good people like Tom
Speaker 1: who I would assume would vote for Trump that are misogynistic,
Speaker 1: aren't sexist, aren't sinophobic, are actually good people who have
Speaker 1: really been left behind and don't have a way to
Speaker 1: critically think or figure out what their new role in
Speaker 1: this new technology g is, you know, because coal mines
Speaker 1: are closing and now it's more tech and and these
Speaker 1: people have legitimate needs and concerns and they don't know
Speaker 1: how They literally don't know, and they've completely lost faith,
Speaker 1: completely lost faith, and people have and and also people
Speaker 1: have given up on them because in the media and
Speaker 1: in the Republican parties, like when you see these ads,
Speaker 1: you would think that like Clara McCaskill is ushering in,
Speaker 1: like isis into the country to like take the guns
Speaker 1: from everyone. I mean, it is so fearmongery and so
Speaker 1: crazy and just so far out of base of like
Speaker 1: what is really going on. I mean, Clara mcaskill has
Speaker 1: been a really good center for the state of Missouri.
Speaker 1: She's worked really hard for people in rural community, she's
Speaker 1: worked really hard for disadvantaged people. And the way that
Speaker 1: she's portrayed in these in political as I've really noticed
Speaker 1: in Kansas City. It's crazy the extremes I think have
Speaker 1: taken over, you know, And I think it's also dangerous
Speaker 1: to generalize about Trump voters in the first place. I
Speaker 1: think Jonathan makes a really good point. You cannot say
Speaker 1: this whole swath of people voted for him be because
Speaker 1: of X. No, absolutely not, and al so I then
Speaker 1: do suck like like the deplorable thing, Like there was
Speaker 1: a piece of that that was true. But any time
Speaker 1: you're making like huge, gigantic, blaken statements, I do think
Speaker 1: that it's like like a little bit of an ish
Speaker 1: but also to the point of like, did quere I
Speaker 1: put two glossy of a cast on conservative people in
Speaker 1: rural areas? I don't think so, No, because what are
Speaker 1: you gonna do, Like have the five of us come
Speaker 1: to someone who's like extremely homophobic and like and be
Speaker 1: like have us being like unsafe situation like you're obviously
Speaker 1: not gonna have us like make over someone who's like
Speaker 1: unsafe for us. Do you think they put on their
Speaker 1: best face and that some of it belied some of
Speaker 1: the undercurrents of racism, sexism, misogyny, homophobia maybe with people
Speaker 1: who were like in locales where we were like like
Speaker 1: the one with Joe Gawa where we were doing that
Speaker 1: like stand up thing at that like rotary club sort
Speaker 1: of place, like when we were actually there, like I
Speaker 1: didn't realize like how crazily people were looking at me,
Speaker 1: Like it didn't occur to me at all, Like I
Speaker 1: there's one when you watched the EPID, So yeah, then
Speaker 1: I was like, holy sh it, like that guy was
Speaker 1: really being an asshole and there was there was a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff going on, but it didn't mean because,
Speaker 1: like I said, it goes over my head, like I'm
Speaker 1: too busy being fabulous to notice. But I like that
Speaker 1: every time you say something like that, I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: putting that on a T shirt. Yeah, so um, you know.
Speaker 1: And also I think that most people, most people are
Speaker 1: are good at heart. I think most people are. I
Speaker 1: do think that media today is dividing people because you
Speaker 1: do have an alternative universe depending on where you're getting
Speaker 1: your news and information totally, and then it just feeds
Speaker 1: your sort of worst impulses to to you know, as
Speaker 1: as President Obama would say, manufactured Outragel. Yes, yes, I
Speaker 1: think Fox and CNN are the biggest defenders because when
Speaker 1: I watched about MSNBC don't watch it, so I don't know,
Speaker 1: sorry about it, Rachel. I love your I just never
Speaker 1: had that channel. Don't care. Um, But as far as
Speaker 1: an End and Fox, it's over and over and over
Speaker 1: and over and over. It's the exact same thing. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, with all of your money and all of
Speaker 1: your resources, like, can you not go to Yemen? What
Speaker 1: about the collar outbreak of problem Jonathan? When they start
Speaker 1: covering those things, ratings go down because people want to
Speaker 1: watch the reality show and it's far more expensive to cover.
Speaker 1: I mean, you get better, but can't you give me?
Speaker 1: But can I get moments? Can't we diversify a little bit,
Speaker 1: like can't we move a couple doors down? It was
Speaker 1: interesting because I was talking to a friend of mine
Speaker 1: who works at MSNBC, and I said, oh gosh, there
Speaker 1: must have been some relief about the tie rescue because
Speaker 1: at least it was a moment to depart from Trump,
Speaker 1: and she said, we didn't even cover that. So I
Speaker 1: think it's become so just political something. But at some point,
Speaker 1: like doesn't someone need to be the bigger person and
Speaker 1: take the hit and see if people actually choose a
Speaker 1: better source it's all about. But wouldn't that be interesting though,
Speaker 1: if someone could take, like, give me like a Reiter's
Speaker 1: or an NPR moment but in a capitalized network and
Speaker 1: see if that works. No one's ever tried, like I
Speaker 1: think probably they have. Date Line kind of was like
Speaker 1: a moment because I had to say Solidette O'Brien's coverage
Speaker 1: of that Jonestown documentary in like two thousand and eleven.
Speaker 1: I still think about it so good. So I mean
Speaker 1: I do think that uh Fox, I wouldn't know enough
Speaker 1: about to say this, and I actually would. I think
Speaker 1: I could also go out and elem enough to say
Speaker 1: that is not they never do good stuff, But CNN
Speaker 1: does do good stuff sometimes. I mean, they do do
Speaker 1: good investigative journalism. Sometimes. I do feel like that Solid
Speaker 1: had special sheet brings the heat with CNN, and I
Speaker 1: love that. Also, Sanja Gupta, we love him, but I
Speaker 1: do think just the way that it's laid out. I
Speaker 1: think that the whole like ratings machine and how that
Speaker 1: relates to news and what that's doing to our country.
Speaker 1: It's like if you if CNN is gonna sit and
Speaker 1: call Donald Trump like not fit for presidency and not
Speaker 1: and you know, not patriotic, It's like, what is because,
Speaker 1: like my set had always said, if you're pointing at
Speaker 1: someone calling them something like, you've got three fingers pointing
Speaker 1: back at you. So I think that we all have
Speaker 1: a hand in this, and we all could make this
Speaker 1: a little bit cuter. Can we talk about this medium
Speaker 1: for a second? Podcasting? So you do another podcast addition, yes,
Speaker 1: called Getting Curious is a web series? People cannot but
Speaker 1: also to you though, honey, people do that all the time.
Speaker 1: People like don't know what the things are. A web series,
Speaker 1: it's like a video on the internet that's a series
Speaker 1: of videos. And then a podcast is when we're here
Speaker 1: with these gorgeous no. But it's like, but lots of
Speaker 1: people do. But tomato to motto, Yeah, it's fine, it's fine.
Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about how you got into podcasting,
Speaker 1: what you think of the medium, and sort of what
Speaker 1: the point of your show is. So I was inspired
Speaker 1: by Aaron Gibson and Brian's Happy because they have another
Speaker 1: amazing podcast called Throwing Shade. That was the first podcast
Speaker 1: that I ever listened to it. I was like, fun,
Speaker 1: I got lucky enough to assist for this photo shoot
Speaker 1: that any Leeboitz did and like a long time ago
Speaker 1: with an old boss of mine, and she what I
Speaker 1: learned from her that was so interesting because when you
Speaker 1: think of like photography and fashion print, it's a very curated,
Speaker 1: very produced world. Her whole phase that she was at
Speaker 1: least going through then was that like if anything even
Speaker 1: felt like it was bordering onto produced or just to
Speaker 1: like for she was like, oh, I hate to get
Speaker 1: away from you, like hated it, like that hair is
Speaker 1: too done, that shirt's too fucking done, Like it's all
Speaker 1: too done. She hated at like it just had to
Speaker 1: be very like raw and real. And I loved that
Speaker 1: about her, So Annie, yeah, because that's so unusual if
Speaker 1: you look at her Vanity Farewell and that phase though
Speaker 1: that she was going through like this like two thousand
Speaker 1: and eleven phase, it just needed and even if it
Speaker 1: does turn out looking really produced, like she she needed
Speaker 1: the set to feel like just very like undone, like
Speaker 1: having been there, it made sense, I guess as someone
Speaker 1: who wasn't on the said, I can see how that
Speaker 1: wouldn't make sense. But the point is that in getting
Speaker 1: curious and I started doing that, I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't want any sort of like reoccurring segment. I don't
Speaker 1: want any sort of like bells and whistles. I just
Speaker 1: want like the same song to start every time, and
Speaker 1: then me and the same like me and an expert
Speaker 1: to talk thirty minutes sometimes works. I can't stop talking
Speaker 1: to learn about something. And I just didn't want anything
Speaker 1: like to produce. I just wanted like a natural little combo.
Speaker 1: Tell me about some of the episodes. I know you
Speaker 1: did one on the Middle East, for example, I've done
Speaker 1: two in the Middle East with the professor of Islamic
Speaker 1: History from U C. L A. His name is Dr
Speaker 1: James Kelvin. I love him so much. He's so smart.
Speaker 1: He um, he's lived it down. Yeah, he broke it down.
Speaker 1: He continues to break it down. He's someone who I
Speaker 1: will definitely have back because he has such a wealth
Speaker 1: of knowledge and and I think that Middle East politics
Speaker 1: and Middle East history is so confusing for like a
Speaker 1: gay kid from Quincy, Illinois, Like, how do you even
Speaker 1: break all that down? So I've done one on like
Speaker 1: psychobiological Approach to couples therapy, which is short for packed,
Speaker 1: which is invented by stand tack In. So I interviewed him.
Speaker 1: He's incredible making up for dropping out of I am.
Speaker 1: But but here's the thing. I can't fake interest in
Speaker 1: that I'm not interested in. So you take a topic
Speaker 1: that you're really interested in, and you figure out who
Speaker 1: the right person to talk to that and you just
Speaker 1: talk to them. Yeah, and you try to learn as
Speaker 1: much as you can. And before I was a success,
Speaker 1: I used to have to like cold email like twenty
Speaker 1: and thirty professors of like anything. Yeah, like demologists, homologists,
Speaker 1: that's what it is. It's fun now because it's like
Speaker 1: it's easier to produce now because now people know what
Speaker 1: it is, which is fun. Well, let's talk before we
Speaker 1: go about Brian, because I thought I'm gonna ask Jonathan
Speaker 1: to kind of if he had to make over Brian,
Speaker 1: what would would he even be? Honestly, I think you're
Speaker 1: such a handsome boy. You have very beautiful skin, You've
Speaker 1: got great hair. I love your outfit. I thought you
Speaker 1: look great today. Really you wouldn't do anything you think
Speaker 1: of his hair and put some product in it a
Speaker 1: little bit. I also came curious if you had like
Speaker 1: a little bit more stubble, like I would have had
Speaker 1: like a little bit more like bad boy stubble. Like
Speaker 1: I wonder what stuff well I could I could grow
Speaker 1: it out for a couple like I feel like if
Speaker 1: you had like a few more days, like you'd be
Speaker 1: serving like a little bit of like David Muir, like
Speaker 1: real nous, you know what I mean? Like I have
Speaker 1: to work out for about two years. I mean I
Speaker 1: would be curious to see what you look like if
Speaker 1: you're just like going to Whole Foods, Like what do
Speaker 1: you wear? If you're just like going to the grocery starch? Right?
Speaker 1: In that case, I would I want you to get
Speaker 1: if I could not to say the name of my
Speaker 1: podcast and sentence, but I would love to see you
Speaker 1: getting curious about like what's your athletisure? Look, what's your
Speaker 1: like comfy cashual? What if you ever want to go
Speaker 1: play tennis or something? What would you wear? I don't
Speaker 1: actually like Jonathan to take a crack at my husband
Speaker 1: John He definitely could use a little fashion help. But
Speaker 1: I have to ask you about your your queer eye brethren.
Speaker 1: Oh god, yeah, I think a lot of people are
Speaker 1: fascinated by the whole crew. Yes, okay, so let's talk
Speaker 1: about Bobby. Bobby does more work than anyone. Let's face it,
Speaker 1: he does so much work. But he also has a
Speaker 1: team quintuple the size of anyone's, Like I don't have
Speaker 1: like I don't have an assistant. I have this year.
Speaker 1: I for the first time, I have someone to help
Speaker 1: me because I'm doing like much larger transformations this time around. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm meaning much more into like color and stuff. But
Speaker 1: Bobby does do so much work. He and he is
Speaker 1: incredibly passionate and incredibly committed. But I really like him, No,
Speaker 1: I love him. He's when we got cast, when I
Speaker 1: first met him, he was someone who like just we
Speaker 1: immediately We're really close. He knows every single, like dark
Speaker 1: secret about me, like like he like he knows everything
Speaker 1: about me. He's like one of the most trustworthy people
Speaker 1: I know. I love him. He's he's so funny, he's
Speaker 1: really really genuine. He's a really really hard worker. Like
Speaker 1: I absolutely adore him. And his background is sort of
Speaker 1: similar to, well, our biggest beef is that Illinois people
Speaker 1: make fun of Missourians for driving, and Missourians make fun
Speaker 1: of well actually, really what it is is Missourians get
Speaker 1: made fun of by Illinoisans for the driving, and then
Speaker 1: Kansas people also make fun of Missourian people for their
Speaker 1: driving because everyone knows that universality, Missourians cannot drive. And um,
Speaker 1: and that's just for me coming from a border town,
Speaker 1: like that's just you know, there's no shade there. It's
Speaker 1: just why can't Missourians because they don't have a driver's
Speaker 1: at program like your parents teach you how to drive? Seriously, Yes,
Speaker 1: all right, let's talk about it. The thing obsess with
Speaker 1: Tan Tan I love so much? Um, I like what
Speaker 1: to like? Should we introduce what these people do for
Speaker 1: the clothing? Fashion? Guy Bobby is the home Tannon I
Speaker 1: is like main goal in each other's life is like
Speaker 1: his goal in my life is to teach me boundaries
Speaker 1: and my goal in his life is to take them
Speaker 1: all away. So you know, there's always like that gorgeous friendship.
Speaker 1: I love his hair. I love his hair so much,
Speaker 1: very particular about his hair, but I love him so
Speaker 1: much about it is that a natural gray or does he? Yes?
Speaker 1: You cannot buy that color in a body. I think
Speaker 1: it's really pretty. My hair was so stunning. I'd like
Speaker 1: to should I Well, my mom and I grew hers out,
Speaker 1: and if you ever wanted to, because you're so light now,
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be because like my mom and I grew
Speaker 1: her color is the best decision we ever made. She
Speaker 1: looks amazing. She looks amazing with her strikes. I'm just
Speaker 1: afraid mine's going to be sort of nasty, you know,
Speaker 1: salt and pepper. Every time I mentioned it, all my
Speaker 1: friends say, no, you'll look too old. I think silver
Speaker 1: hair is stunning, and I think that it's very like underrated.
Speaker 1: And can you make it like look whiter if it
Speaker 1: doesn't come, you can do a little. You can do
Speaker 1: like a semi permanent gloss. It's got like a violet
Speaker 1: base to counteract any yellow in it, to brighten it
Speaker 1: up as much as possible. All right, well, we'll discuss.
Speaker 1: But I also love your color the way that she's beautiful.
Speaker 1: Thank you. All right, let's talk about Anthony. Love Anthony
Speaker 1: such a hard worker, a really really just true of
Speaker 1: rock and solid person, really rock and bod which one
Speaker 1: is Anthony. Anthony does the food. He's so funny, Like
Speaker 1: I'm like, give Anthony more to do than just teach
Speaker 1: a guy how to make guacama But you know what,
Speaker 1: he gets a lot of black for that. But I
Speaker 1: think that it's like when you think about, you know,
Speaker 1: his vertical in my vertical, Like am I going to
Speaker 1: come in on a guy who's never used sunscreen before
Speaker 1: and give him like a light contour beat? Like am
Speaker 1: I going to show him how to conjure his face
Speaker 1: and how to you know, get like no, like you
Speaker 1: have to meet people where they're at. I agree. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that they got a lot of undue flag
Speaker 1: for I mean a lot of these Tom the most
Speaker 1: Tomas didn't get yes, Like in the press, he got
Speaker 1: a lot of flak for his cooking skills. And like
Speaker 1: Tom literally was eating Cheetos and mountain Dew Margarita's every
Speaker 1: day for like a year. So like getting him to
Speaker 1: make guacamole was lacord on blue. Teaching him how to
Speaker 1: cut an avocado was like that was epic for him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's probably big city slickers kind of Bilkaramoy.
Speaker 1: He's so handsome. Yeah, so handsome and really so empathetic
Speaker 1: and so smart and I'm really really caring and just
Speaker 1: you know, a really good guy. Like I cannot say
Speaker 1: enough good words about how I loved them. You guys
Speaker 1: have all made a big mark for each of your careers.
Speaker 1: Do you guys get competitive? Really? No? I think I
Speaker 1: think all of us really kind of operate by like
Speaker 1: that law of abundance versus a law of scarcity. I
Speaker 1: don't think that like when any of us gets like
Speaker 1: something good that happens to us, I don't feel like
Speaker 1: any of the rest of us feel like that takes
Speaker 1: away an opportunity for the rest of us. So I
Speaker 1: really feel like we do operate like from a law
Speaker 1: of abundance space and it doesn't feel jealous at all.
Speaker 1: We were so happy for each other and like really,
Speaker 1: I mean like they come to a lot of my
Speaker 1: stand up shows, they post my like we post each
Speaker 1: other's stuff. Like we're all really supportive and I really
Speaker 1: love each other. How is your stand up career? It's
Speaker 1: been so fun. I was when I first started doing it,
Speaker 1: I was like kind of coasting by on, like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, everyone loves you so much. From the show.
Speaker 1: You're like a new kid on the block, so you
Speaker 1: can kind of almost just get up here and heels
Speaker 1: and dance around and everyone will think it's funny. Complately,
Speaker 1: I'm more like, oh my god, like you got like
Speaker 1: this is an art, this is the craft. I gotta
Speaker 1: get it together. I'm like, so I'm really like working
Speaker 1: on my act. I'm really it's funny and yeah, like clubs,
Speaker 1: stand up places and it's just fun. Like I it's
Speaker 1: a whole new medium, it's a whole new art. I
Speaker 1: feel like I haven't been this passionate about learning about
Speaker 1: something since, like I started doing hair. So it's really
Speaker 1: it's like a whole new medium for me to get into.
Speaker 1: And how are you learning about it? You take trial
Speaker 1: funny no trial and air um. I just I'm getting up.
Speaker 1: I work a lot with my friend Kyle, who is
Speaker 1: coming on the tour with me, the Hotels dot Com tour,
Speaker 1: and she'll come to all of my all the comedy
Speaker 1: shows and we're just spitballing a lot with each other
Speaker 1: and working a lot with each other. It's just it's
Speaker 1: really fun and talking about your life and your life
Speaker 1: experiences and storyteller than a one joke one liner person,
Speaker 1: but I work in some good one liners throughout, but
Speaker 1: those are always pretty meta, like I don't really plan
Speaker 1: those ones like you like you have today. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm so happy for your success and thank you so
Speaker 1: much for doing this. It's really nice to meet you.
Speaker 1: And Katie is still a little upset that you don't
Speaker 1: want to make me over. You brought the heats that
Speaker 1: you look great. Thank you Jonathan. By the way, before
Speaker 1: we go, a quick footnote. The very next day, after
Speaker 1: we interviewed Jonathan van Ness Queer I took home three Emmy's.
Speaker 1: So congratulations j v N and to the entire Queer
Speaker 1: Eye team, well done. That wraps up our show for today, folks.
Speaker 1: Thanks this week to Cody Ziegler in our l A
Speaker 1: Studio who helped us out with this recording and on
Speaker 1: a Saturday morning, I might add thank you Cody. Our
Speaker 1: usual thanks to our producer Gianna Palmer, our associate producer
Speaker 1: Nora Richie, and our engineer Jared O'Connell who mixed this episode.
Speaker 1: Thanks also to Katie's amazing, indefatigable assistant Bethams, and a
Speaker 1: warm welcome to Julia Lewis, who I always want to say,
Speaker 1: Julia Lewis dried this. Julia Lewis, who is our great
Speaker 1: new digital content manager at Katie Currik Media, Mark Phillips
Speaker 1: at our theme music. Katie Kurrik and I are the
Speaker 1: show's executive producers. Find me on Twitter at Goldsmith b
Speaker 1: and Katie, meanwhile, is all over the social media's under
Speaker 1: the name Katie Currik and folks. That heads up next
Speaker 1: week's show and the one after we'll be slightly different.
Speaker 1: We're gonna be trying out a documentary format for the
Speaker 1: first time to mark the tenure anniversary of my interviews
Speaker 1: within vice presidential candidates Sarah Palin and we should mention, Brian,
Speaker 1: you were a really important producer during the course of
Speaker 1: those interviews, so you've been putting up with me for
Speaker 1: a very long time. I can't believe it was ten
Speaker 1: years ago. Anyway, For this two part audio doc you
Speaker 1: and I spoke with many of the key players from
Speaker 1: the two thousand eight campaign. Our goal with this series
Speaker 1: is to reconstruct what happened in front of the camera
Speaker 1: and behind the scenes, right all the palace intrigue that
Speaker 1: was going on at CBS News at the time, well
Speaker 1: not all of it, but we really wanted to explore, also, Brian,
Speaker 1: whether Sarah Palin's brand of politics, sort of fire brand
Speaker 1: brand of politics, helped pay the way for the politics
Speaker 1: of Donald Trump. Again, this one will be a two parter,
Speaker 1: so look out for it next week and the week after.
Speaker 1: We'll talk to you then. Thanks everyone for listening. Thank
Speaker 1: you