WEBVTT - How Tech Spies On Us 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.800 Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:14.960 Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:18.520 Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:20.920 and a love of all things tech, and I figured 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:26.120 i'd do UH an episode or two about tech and privacy. 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:29.639 I've titled this episode how Tech Spies on Us, But 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:32.560 right from the get go, I have to admit that 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:37.479 that is a little disingenuous because in many cases, not all, 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:42.600 but in many cases, we're essentially giving tech permission to 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:45.760 just harvest information about us, which is a little different 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:49.480 than spying. It's kind of like saying, no, I'm cool 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:53.360 with there being a live camera on me all the time, 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:57.880 just broadcasting to some other location. You can't really call 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:00.360 that spying if you were in on it at the top. 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:05.279 But the way tech tends to go about this UH 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:10.760 usually follows a pathway that isn't transparent, and it's not 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:15.920 always obvious, and sometimes it relies on people not really 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:19.320 being aware of what they've agreed to. So I really 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:21.200 wanted to go into that so that we can all 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:27.120 have a deeper understanding of how tech gathers information and 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:31.600 then how companies leverage that and exploit our information, and 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:34.600 furthermore to kind of, you know, think about whether or 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:36.800 not we're okay with this. Some of you might be, 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:39.759 and there's I'm not casting any shade, I'm not making 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:43.240 any judgments, but others might not be. And that's why 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:45.200 I wanted to kind of go through this and really 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:49.000 get down to why it seems like our tech has 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:53.040 almost a preternatural ability to know things about us. So 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:57.320 let me paint for you a hypothetical situation. You are 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:00.240 hanging out with a friend and you're both chatting a out, 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:03.000 you know, all sorts of stuff, and the two of 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:05.520 you decided to go to a nice restaurant with an 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:08.040 outdoor seating area because you know, we're still kind of 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:11.960 post pandemic type stuff, and you know you're being super 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:15.280 responsible with regard to health concerns and all of that. Anyway, 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:18.120 you have a conversation with your friend who is telling 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:21.520 you all about this movie they just watched. And after 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:23.960 your meal, you say goodbye to your friend and you 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:27.799 head on home. Later that same day or evening or 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:30.560 night whatever, you're on the internet and you see something 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:33.639 kind of weird. You actually start seeing ads for that 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:37.240 film your friend was talking about popping up on different 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:40.760 sites and services, and you don't remember seeing ads for 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:46.720 this particular movie before, So maybe it's cherry picking. Maybe 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:49.519 it's the whole van as always by the corner thing 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:52.000 where you only notice something after it's been brought to 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:54.520 your attention. But maybe it's not. So what the heck 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:57.800 is going on? Was your phone spying on you? Was 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:01.000 it listening in on your conversationation that you had with 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:04.320 your friend at dinner and then sent that information off 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:09.520 somewhere to be processed and analyzed, then sold to advertisers, 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:13.040 And then when you get back and now you have 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:17.320 targeted ads aimed at you because your phone was eavesdropping 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:20.680 on you. Now, I mentioned this sort of thing in 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:24.000 a recent tech News episode, and I'm not gonna make 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:27.800 you wait through this whole episode to answer that hypothetical question. 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:33.919 Your tech is most likely not listening in on your conversations, 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:37.040 not because that would be hard to do it. It 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:40.440 actually wouldn't be hard to do that, but because there's 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:43.040 really no need to do it. There's no need to 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:47.680 go that far. Also, if tech were actually actively listening 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:50.560 in on you all the time, governments around the world 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:54.440 would be extremely interested in that, either to use it 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:58.440 for their themselves as a kind of surveillance of their 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:01.880 own citizens and people who are within the country, or 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:05.120 they would want to go after tech companies for violating 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:09.880 various privacy and security laws. Now, the point is that 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:14.280 the way our modern tech works, and the way companies collect, share, 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:18.400 and barter our data, means there's no need to listen 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:21.479 in to what we're saying. Our tech knows who we are, 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:25.480 it knows where we go, it knows what we're doing, 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:29.240 and because the people around us also carry similar tech, 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:32.800 it knows who we're with, and by cross referencing data, 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:36.960 it knows what sort of connections exist between us. So 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:39.840 today I thought I talk a bit more about how 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:43.000 our tech collects data and the history of that, from 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:45.919 the stuff that we willingly surrender to the stuff that 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:49.000 we might not even realize was being shared. We'll talk 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:52.400 about how this has evolved and how geolocation has played 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:54.920 a really big part in this, and this will lead 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:57.159 us to some recent events in which we've seen big 0:04:57.200 --> 0:05:00.880 companies like Facebook and Google try to skirt around attempts 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:03.800 to give users the option to opt out of some 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:08.839 forms of data collection now, as always in tech stuff, 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:11.440 anyone who's listened to a textuff episode knows I love 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:15.840 going through history because it's not like there was just 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:18.799 a switch that was flipped one day and then suddenly 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:22.920 all of our personal information got hoovered up by the Internet. Also, 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:24.480 we should keep in mind that there are a lot 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:28.239 of different privacy laws around the world that can restrict 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:31.719 this kind of you know, data collection and how data 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:36.160 companies can use that information. So, for example, the European 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:40.160 Union has laws that provide a decent amount of protection 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:44.799 for citizens. But as I am located in the United States, 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:47.839 where the Internet first got its start, and thus where 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:51.920 the attitudes and practices regarding private information on the Internet 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:55.080 got their start, at least with regard to you know, 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:58.279 the web and the Internet in general, I'm mostly going 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:00.279 to be focusing on the good old us of a 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:05.239 which isn't really that old, and frequently isn't that good either. 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:09.800 So here in the United States, a right to privacy 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.880 was not one of the guarantees laid out in the Constitution, 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:18.680 at least not explicitly. However, the various forms of government, 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:22.160 including the Supreme Court, over the course of decades and 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:26.080 several court cases has essentially found that four of the 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:31.479 first five amendments to the Constitution extend over towards a 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:34.480 right to privacy. So those would be the first Amendment. 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:38.159 That's the one that guarantees the right to assembly, uh, 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:41.520 the freedom of religion, the freedom of speech, and the 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:45.240 freedom of expression. Then we skip over the second Amendment 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:48.320 and we head over to Amendment number three, which prevents 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:51.200 the government from being able to station soldiers in private 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:55.600 homes of citizens. Then there's the Fourth Amendment, which protects 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:59.120 citizens from unreasonable search and seizure. That's a big part 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:02.760 of privacy obviously. And then we've got Amendment number five, 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:06.360 which has a little bit of Monica in my life. Wait, no, 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:10.760 I'm sorry, that's mambo number five. Amendment number five says 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:15.240 that US citizens enjoy certain legal protections. For example, you 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:19.000 can't be tried for the same crime twice, right, that's 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:23.360 double jeopardy. That obviously doesn't include stuff like the appeals process, 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:27.720 but that's separate. Also, citizens can take the Fifth Amendment 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:31.520 to avoid self incrimination during a trial, so they cannot 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:35.840 be compelled to confess to a crime. Uh. That again 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:39.440 relates to privacy. Now, none of those four amendments provide 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:42.880 explicit rights to privacy, but they all extend towards that 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:46.440 direction in different ways. So that was back in seventeen 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:49.200 eighty nine, which means it was like two centuries before 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:52.280 we had to worry about the Internet, but a century 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:56.480 after the Constitution was ratified. That being an eight ninety 0:07:57.040 --> 0:08:01.640 an article written by Justice Louis Brandy and Samuel Warren 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:05.680 argued for a more explicit right to privacy. It was 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:09.360 the early days of photography in the eighteen nineties, and 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:12.240 already the two saw the potential for people to have 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:15.960 their privacy violated due to the fact that now it 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:19.880 was easier to capture a moment forever and then potentially 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:24.600 distribute it widely through the press. In nineteen fourteen, we 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:29.040 got the founding of the Federal Trade Commission, or FTC. Now, 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.600 the primary responsibility of the FTC is to ensure that 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:36.880 companies within the United States are playing fair. The FTC 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:40.880 can go after companies that use deceptive commercial practices, but 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:45.240 later on, really like starting around the nineteen seventies, the 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:50.000 FTC would also focus on companies that violated citizen privacy, 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:53.680 going global. For a moment in nineteen forty eight, the 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:58.280 United Nations drafted the Declaration of Human Rights, which included 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.920 within it article number twelve, of which states, quote no 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:07.160 one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home, 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:11.599 or correspondence, nor two attacks upon his honor and reputation. 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:14.680 Everyone has the right to the protection of the law 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:19.040 against such interference or attacks. End quote. Now, apart from 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:22.760 the non inclusive pronoun usage there, this was a really 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:26.480 big step toward positioning privacy as a basic human right. 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:31.720 In nineteen sixty a legal scholar named William Prosser published 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:36.040 an article titled Fittingly Enough Privacy, and in that article 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:40.559 processor outlined four cases in which infringing on privacy should 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:44.720 allow for the victim to pursue a civil lawsuit against 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:50.320 the perpetrator. Those four cases were intrusion upon seclusion or solitude, 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:53.559 so in other words, someone's barging in on you when 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:58.520 you're just trying to be alone, or intrusion into private affairs. Similarly, 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:03.680 public disco cosure of embarrassing private facts, which when you 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:07.680 think about that, the Internet and the way it works 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:11.199 would just catch on fire if people were really holding 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:15.080 that seriously. Today publicity which places a person in a 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:18.520 false light in the public eye was another case. And 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:22.559 appropriation of one's name or likeness. So if someone were 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:26.640 to go about posing as Jonathan Strickland and it's not me, 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:29.360 it's not someone else who's actually named Jonathan Strickland like 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:32.080 they were trying to pose as me, I should be 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:38.480 allowed to sue that person based on that that criteria. Now, 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:41.920 obviously in these cases, uh, there's a lot of leeway 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:45.840 because there also are issues where it kind of starts 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:49.160 to track a little bit toward issues with the First Amendment. Right, 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:52.800 So in case of public disclosure of embarrassing private facts, 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:56.319 if you're talking about a public figure, there's a lot 0:10:56.360 --> 0:10:59.680 more leeway there because it may be that that public 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:04.760 fig years private facts have a public bearing, like if 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:07.920 it's a politician or something. So it does get a 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:12.079 little dicey, but these matters always do. We'll skip ahead 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:14.400 to nineteen seventy four, though I should say that there 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:17.400 were some court cases and some scholarly articles that further 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:21.240 the framing of privacy. By nineteen seventy four, the US 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:25.280 passed the Privacy Act, which placed limits on how federal 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:30.360 agencies can collect and use personally identifiable information not granted. 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:34.959 These restrictions were all about government use, federal government use, 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:39.240 not state government, and not corporate use, so it's not 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:43.040 like this applied across the board. In nineteen six, the 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:46.840 US government passed the Telephone Consumer Protection Act and established 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:49.840 they Do Not Call Registry, and these were meant to 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:52.920 reduce the number of solicitation calls that citizens would get, 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:55.040 you know, the spam calls we would call them today, 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:58.600 and it would give people the opportunity to opt out 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:01.640 of being on that regis streets, so that in theory, 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.640 you wouldn't get those cold calls. Now, this is one 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:07.200 of those things that in recent years has become an 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:11.199 area of focus because stuff like robo calls and spoofing 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:14.920 have really sidestepped the protections that were in place all 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:19.520 the way back in six rendering them almost meaningless. And 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:22.240 you've heard a lot of calls even in you know, 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:27.079 high areas of Congress to have a new version of 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:32.679 this too address things like companies that use spoofing and 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:37.800 robo calls to do a widespread targeting of spam. Over 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:41.440 in Europe, the EU adopted the Data Protection Directive in 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:47.360 nine and then in the EU replaced that with the 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:51.559 General Data Protection Regulation or g d p R. This 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:54.280 is the set of rules and restrictions that really prevents 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:58.160 largely like big tech companies from following the same source 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:01.400 of strategies in the EU that they follow here over 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:04.120 in the United States. So you'll hear a lot about 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:08.040 companies having to readjust how they work in the EU, 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:12.679 because if they were to continue to operate as they 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:15.520 do in the United States, they could be held legally 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:20.200 liable for lots of violations. There are other rules that 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:25.160 are important. There's KAPPA. That's the Children's Online Privacy Protection 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:27.920 Act here in the United States. That act places much 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:31.439 tighter restrictions on companies when it comes to the collection 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:34.720 and use of data about people who are younger than thirteen. 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:37.840 That law and the enforcement of it have created some 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:41.720 fairly tricky situations for companies and for others, like notably 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:45.760 content creators on platforms like YouTube. But I'm pretty sure 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:47.600 I'm gonna have to do just a full episode on 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:52.800 KAPPA and its consequences in the future, because those consequences 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:57.000 include stuff that I think are valuable and stuff that 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:01.240 because of the interpretation of the law and the implementation 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:05.679 of policies on platforms like YouTube can also be harmful. 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:11.240 It's complicated, so that's why it would require its own episode. 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:15.439 In the US past, the Graham Leach Blightly Act, which 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:19.640 requires financial institutions to explain how they use and share 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:22.880 private consumer data. So this was for things like credit 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:26.280 organizations banks. That kind of thing also requires that those 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:30.000 companies provide a means for customers to opt out of 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:34.000 having their information shared, which is a pretty good point 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:36.600 to focus on for a second. In the United States, 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:40.760 the general approach the default is to require companies to 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:44.240 provide an opt out option, but a lot of companies 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:49.200 bury these sorts of settings or features so that they're 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:53.000 not easy to find or activate, and often any disclosure 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:57.440 of there being an opt out feature can be buried 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:01.680 inside a long terms of service end user agreement page 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:04.600 which most people don't take the time to read. And 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:07.600 I'm just as guilty of this as other people. I 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:10.880 don't I'm not you know, I'm not throwing shade here, folks, 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:14.720 I am. I've done this, and some people argue that 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:17.520 it would be better to have an opt in approach, 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:21.360 so this would be where you would sign up for 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:24.400 a service. You would be told, hey, do you mind 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:27.400 if we use your information to do X, Y and 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:31.040 Z in a very clear and transparent way, not buried 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:35.200 in like pages and pages of terms of service, and 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:37.440 you would then click a box to allow it to happen. 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:41.600 But since so much revenue depends intrinsically on the ability 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:44.880 of companies to collect and share data, there's an extreme 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:49.800 financial incentive to go the opt out route. More on 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:53.960 that later. On the state level, presently, two states in 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:56.760 the US have passed privacy laws meant to protect the 0:15:56.800 --> 0:16:01.440 private information of citizens of those states, and they are California, 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:05.560 which passed the California Consumer Privacy Act in which went 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:09.920 into effect in twenty twenty, and then Virginia, which very 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:14.040 recently passed the Consumer Data Protection Act just this past 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:19.880 March in but that law won't go into effect until January. 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:22.640 The other forty eight states of the US pretty much 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:26.840 just followed the general federal rules to some extent. So 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:30.480 that's the legal background on privacy in the United States 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:33.600 and to a lesser extent, the EU without going into 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:38.040 like super detailed analysis. The idea being privacy is clearly 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:43.680 a thing, but it's not as heavily protected from a 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:47.800 legal standpoint in the United States as it could be. Meanwhile, 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:54.080 obviously technology advances at an incredible pace and frequently leaves 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:57.840 the legal system in the dust. But what about the 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:01.360 actual collection of personal information in the tech age. Well, 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:04.359 again we need to think back historically. Now, in the 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:08.960 old old days, you know, pre digital age, businesses essentially 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:13.560 kept an eye on customers, particularly repeat customers, and kept 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:17.240 an eye on what they were buying. This was necessary 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:19.560 in order to just keep stores stocked with the stuff 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:23.320 people actually needed. And I think this kind of tracking, 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:26.920 which is being really generous, uh, it was much more 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:30.040 general approach. It's pretty easy to understand and to forgive. 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:33.600 So imagine that you are a store owner and you 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:36.879 notice that every two months farmer Betty comes in and 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:40.040 she buys two bags of grain. You would learn pretty 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:42.439 quickly that you need to make sure you have grain 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:46.920 stocked every two months because typically that's when she would 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:48.320 come in and buy them. So you want to make 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:50.960 sure you had that on hand. And you would do 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:53.119 this with all your customers, whatever it was that they 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:55.199 were buying. You would make sure that you were stocked 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:58.679 up on and you might also try and experiment and 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:01.960 stock some stuff was related to the products that your 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:06.320 regulars were buying, and assuming that you speculate correctly, everyone 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:10.119 benefits from that. You make more sales and your customers 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:12.880 end up getting stuff that they need, even if they 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:16.240 didn't know they needed it at the time. Fast forward 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:19.679 a whole lot to the point where we had electronic 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:23.440 means of keeping inventory. The invention of stuff like computer 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:27.119 systems and the bar code in the nineteen seventies that 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:29.199 made it possible for us to keep an up to 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:33.960 date electronic record of inventory and sales, and these weren't 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:37.640 directly tied to customers just yet. That would still largely 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:41.400 depend heavily on observation, but now it was much easier 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:45.439 to spot buying trends and respond to them in close 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:49.679 to real time. That particular branch would lead to data 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:54.120 driven marketing, in which experts and marketing would look at 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:57.680 various goods and services and use data to determine which 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:00.840 regions they should focus on and which one's might prove 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:05.119 to be less profitable. So let's say you are uh, 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:08.120 the owner of a chain of grocery stores in the Southeast. 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:12.600 You might notice that grocery stores in Atlanta are selling 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:15.800 a lot of a particular type of product, and then meanwhile, 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:21.280 a store in you know, Charlotte isn't selling that so much, 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:24.359 but it is selling a different product at very high volume. 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:26.520 These are the sort of dad trends you would want 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:27.960 to know so that you could make sure you had 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:31.120 the right stock on hand, you could do advertising campaigns, 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:35.440 and you can maximize your sales and minimize your waste. 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:41.080 It was incredibly valuable data that was undeniable. Information was 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:46.120 the key to maximizing profit and reducing costs as much 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:49.280 as possible. In the nineteen eighties we saw the rise 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:53.920 of direct marketing, in which marketers would customize and personalized 0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:58.080 efforts and aim them at specific shoppers. Now we're no 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:02.400 longer looking at regions, we're looking at individuals. And typically 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:05.800 they did this through direct mail sales. And this was 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:08.960 a pretty primitive approach and based solely on the customer's 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:11.280 past purchases. So I can give you an example of this. 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:14.000 I grew up in the eighties. I was one of 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:17.919 those kids who occasionally would buy comic books, and of 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:20.880 course stuff on the backs of comic books would sometimes 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:24.159 be really tempting, Like man I really would like that 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:27.400 hand buzzer. That seems like that will be a real hit, 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:31.400 And you go and you send your like dollar seventy 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:33.679 five or the mail and you buy one. And then 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:36.000 next thing you know, you start getting catalogs for all 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:39.040 these sort of novelty gifts. And that's how I ended 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:41.960 up on a billion mailing lists that were all aiming 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:44.600 at me in different ways for different types of weird 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:48.000 or novelty type stuff. That was kind of the approach. 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:52.520 It was pretty primitive. It was not, you know, super sophisticated, 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:58.160 but it did set a foundation that particular branch would 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:02.280 later extend further into st like loyalty programs in which 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:06.320 stores would issue cards or tokens, often using a bar 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:09.480 code right that they would scan, and that would link 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:13.240 purchases to specific customers. Now you actually know who it 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:16.160 is that's buying stuff and how frequently they're buying it, 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:19.880 and when linked to other information such as a person's 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:23.680 email address or their snail mail address, that can allow 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:27.080 stores to proactively reach out to a customer and alert 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:30.199 them of sales, maybe offer up coupons, all in an 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:33.040 effort to sell more stuff. And it gave the stores 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:37.240 way more information about the preferences of their customers on 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:41.040 that individual basis. That's sort of a microcosm of what 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:43.880 we're looking at with personal data on the Internet. I'll 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:56.200 explain more after this short break. Okay, we have gotten 0:21:56.280 --> 0:21:59.359 up to the ninety nineties and the birth of the 0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:02.440 World Wide Web. Now, the original purpose of the web 0:22:02.560 --> 0:22:05.800 was to create a collection of documents that could be 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:09.919 linked to one another using hypertext links. So it was 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:13.640 just a means of sharing information and linking information together 0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:17.080 which could allow you to create a type of contextualization. 0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:19.720 So think of the average experience you might have on 0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:23.480 a site like Wikipedia. Sure you might start off reading 0:22:23.520 --> 0:22:26.919 about sloths, but then through a series of clicking on 0:22:27.040 --> 0:22:30.200 various links in different articles, you ultimately end up reading 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:34.359 about the communist revolution in Cuba. It didn't take too 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:37.760 long after the initial launch of the earliest web pages 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:43.720 for commerce to follow onto the web. In the digital 0:22:43.800 --> 0:22:49.680 magazine hot Wired introduced something new, the banner ad. Hot 0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:53.760 Wired was an online branch of the print magazine Wired. 0:22:54.119 --> 0:22:57.840 Now hot Wired doesn't exist anymore, but Wired now occupies 0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:01.639 both print and digital formats. However, the banner ad became 0:23:01.760 --> 0:23:05.600 a really important stepping stone in our story. The first 0:23:05.640 --> 0:23:08.560 banner ad was for a T and T, which reportedly 0:23:08.560 --> 0:23:12.840 paid hot Wire a fee of thirty dollars so that 0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:15.159 the banner ad would be placed at the top of 0:23:15.240 --> 0:23:19.639 hot Wired pages for the duration of three months during 0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:22.960 that time, according to one source, at least I could 0:23:22.960 --> 0:23:26.000 not verify this. It's widely reported, but I feel like 0:23:26.000 --> 0:23:28.320 they're all pulling it from the same source, So take 0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:32.879 this with a grain of salt. But apparently that banner 0:23:32.920 --> 0:23:38.240 ad enjoyed a click through rate of forty so quick aside, 0:23:38.359 --> 0:23:41.159 just in case you're not familiar with online ad terms, 0:23:41.680 --> 0:23:44.480 click through is what it sounds like. It's how many 0:23:44.480 --> 0:23:48.960 people actively clicked on an ad, which would then link 0:23:49.080 --> 0:23:51.160 the person to some other page. It would send them 0:23:51.160 --> 0:23:53.919 to a page that might have a little more information 0:23:54.080 --> 0:23:57.720 about a specific service or product, and frequently it would 0:23:57.720 --> 0:24:01.360 also include some means of signing up or purchasing that 0:24:01.440 --> 0:24:04.560 service or product. So if you're an advertiser, you want 0:24:04.640 --> 0:24:08.200 a pretty decent click through rate because one, it shows 0:24:08.240 --> 0:24:11.200 your ad was effective, and too, it makes your client 0:24:11.240 --> 0:24:14.800 happy because presumably they're going to get more sales, and 0:24:16.000 --> 0:24:22.600 click through is indescribably effective. It is it's insane when 0:24:22.640 --> 0:24:26.240 nearly half of all the people visiting a web page 0:24:26.280 --> 0:24:30.440 are clicking on an AD that's on that page. That's incredible. 0:24:31.400 --> 0:24:35.399 These days, the average click through on display ads is 0:24:35.520 --> 0:24:39.240 somewhere in the neighborhood of point three five per cent, 0:24:39.440 --> 0:24:43.840 so less than half a percentage point. Banner ads, by 0:24:43.840 --> 0:24:46.480 the way, get even less, sometimes as low as point 0:24:46.760 --> 0:24:52.679 zero five percent click through. So yeah, was unthinkably successful. 0:24:52.680 --> 0:24:56.080 It probably said a lot of very unrealistic expectations, if 0:24:56.080 --> 0:24:59.760 I'm being honest. But it was also a brand new thing. 0:25:00.280 --> 0:25:03.760 People had yet to develop ad blindness to banner ads, right. 0:25:03.840 --> 0:25:07.040 They They hadn't sort of trained themselves to just ignore 0:25:07.119 --> 0:25:09.080 everything that's at the top or the right of the 0:25:09.080 --> 0:25:12.680 page or sometimes the bottom. They were looking at everything. 0:25:13.320 --> 0:25:16.920 And also ad blockers were not yet a thing, so 0:25:17.160 --> 0:25:21.600 it wasn't like people were using means to prevent ads 0:25:21.640 --> 0:25:24.520 from showing up in the first place. Now, in those 0:25:24.560 --> 0:25:28.720 early days, the general thought was that a conversion, that is, 0:25:28.760 --> 0:25:32.840 converting someone from viewing an AD to acting on it, 0:25:32.920 --> 0:25:35.840 was pretty much limited to sales. So, in other words, 0:25:36.040 --> 0:25:39.359 people thought of ads as only being successful if someone 0:25:39.600 --> 0:25:44.199 was actively buying stuff through interacting with that ad. But 0:25:44.280 --> 0:25:47.280 pretty early on that attitude began to change because there 0:25:47.280 --> 0:25:51.479 were other aspects of conversion to consider. Clicking on the 0:25:51.520 --> 0:25:55.480 ad showed interest, and interest alone could be a conversion. 0:25:55.560 --> 0:25:59.080 It might mean that the company that was in charge 0:25:59.160 --> 0:26:02.439 of of uh, whatever projects our service the ad was 0:26:02.480 --> 0:26:05.480 linked to, might have to do some extra work, but 0:26:06.080 --> 0:26:10.480 you have at least identified a a prospect. Downloading a 0:26:10.520 --> 0:26:14.800 coupon was another type of conversion, and companies began to 0:26:15.119 --> 0:26:18.879 have a way to track data trends through online interactions, 0:26:18.920 --> 0:26:21.840 at least to how well their ads were kind of doing. 0:26:22.200 --> 0:26:26.160 At the same time, a developer named Lou Montoli created 0:26:26.240 --> 0:26:29.439 a new type of computer file that would transform the 0:26:29.480 --> 0:26:33.879 experience of using the World Wide Web. These files, called cookies, 0:26:34.119 --> 0:26:37.800 are integral to how we experience the web. The cookies 0:26:37.920 --> 0:26:42.119 keep track of which websites we visit, how frequently we 0:26:42.280 --> 0:26:45.240 visit them, and what we do on those sites, including 0:26:45.240 --> 0:26:47.919 stuff like if we make a purchase or if we 0:26:48.040 --> 0:26:50.720 click through an ad. They allow us to do stuff 0:26:50.760 --> 0:26:53.640 like log into a service online, like you know, put 0:26:53.680 --> 0:26:56.160 in your user name and password, and then you can 0:26:56.200 --> 0:26:58.800 stay logged in even if you navigate away from the 0:26:58.840 --> 0:27:00.720 site and you come back to it later, you're still 0:27:00.760 --> 0:27:03.480 lugged in. Well, that's thanks to cookies. That way, when 0:27:03.480 --> 0:27:05.359 we come back, we're already lugged in. We don't have 0:27:05.400 --> 0:27:08.399 to go through that process again unless you're using something 0:27:08.400 --> 0:27:11.800 that has really high security, in which case you would 0:27:11.800 --> 0:27:14.400 have to do it because the security is the most 0:27:14.400 --> 0:27:18.919 important part. Similarly, if you're using a site that allows 0:27:18.920 --> 0:27:22.119 you to set certain preferences, the cookie file on your 0:27:22.160 --> 0:27:25.320 computer tells that site what those preferences are, so that 0:27:25.359 --> 0:27:28.280 when you return, those preferences are already in place for 0:27:28.320 --> 0:27:31.760 you automatically. It creates a level of convenience that makes 0:27:31.760 --> 0:27:34.800 the web more usable. Now, when you visit a site, 0:27:34.880 --> 0:27:38.359 the site can request the information stored in that cookie file. 0:27:38.400 --> 0:27:41.640 It has to because if the site needs to adjust 0:27:41.720 --> 0:27:44.440 things for you, it has to know what to do right. 0:27:44.960 --> 0:27:46.399 And this is where we start to get to a 0:27:46.400 --> 0:27:51.600 point where personal information becomes a hot commodity online. The cookie, 0:27:51.800 --> 0:27:54.960 which had clear benefits for users, would have even more 0:27:55.040 --> 0:27:59.760 significant benefits for businesses online. So let's switch back to 0:27:59.800 --> 0:28:02.960 the ads side of the story. At first, companies would 0:28:02.960 --> 0:28:05.720 follow a T and T S lead and purchase banner 0:28:05.800 --> 0:28:09.399 space or right rail space on a website for a 0:28:09.480 --> 0:28:11.560 set amount of money for a set amount of time. 0:28:12.040 --> 0:28:14.520 But it didn't take long for that to change. In 0:28:16.160 --> 0:28:20.560 Netscape and info seek migrated to a new pricing model. 0:28:21.200 --> 0:28:25.400 Instead of creating a one size fits a few approach 0:28:25.560 --> 0:28:28.840 to selling web page landscape, which meant companies would have 0:28:28.880 --> 0:28:31.760 to pay the same amount whether their ads were working 0:28:31.760 --> 0:28:34.560 on that page or not, and for you know, whatever 0:28:34.640 --> 0:28:37.280 duration they had picked. The new approach was the good 0:28:37.320 --> 0:28:43.280 old CPM. CPM stands for cost per milay, with milla 0:28:43.400 --> 0:28:46.719 being the Roman word for thousand. So it sounds at 0:28:46.760 --> 0:28:48.640 first like you're saying cost per million, but you're really 0:28:48.640 --> 0:28:51.760 saying cost per thousand. So the thousand in this case 0:28:52.080 --> 0:28:56.360 tends to mean impressions. That is the number of times 0:28:56.400 --> 0:29:01.320 the ad is presumably seen by visitors to that particular website. 0:29:01.840 --> 0:29:04.360 So what this really breaks down to is that web 0:29:04.400 --> 0:29:07.680 pages that are really popular and they get lots of 0:29:07.760 --> 0:29:12.600 visitors can demand a higher CPM because more folks go there, 0:29:12.960 --> 0:29:15.080 So ads that are placed there are going to have 0:29:15.160 --> 0:29:19.160 higher visibility than an ad placed on you know, old 0:29:19.240 --> 0:29:23.360 Joe Bob's Duct Tape Museum website. A site that gets 0:29:23.400 --> 0:29:26.400 a lot of traffic can demand more money per thousand impressions, 0:29:26.680 --> 0:29:29.200 kind of like how in the United States, if you 0:29:29.280 --> 0:29:31.440 want to have a commercial played during the Super Bowl, 0:29:31.480 --> 0:29:35.080 it's gonna cost you millions of dollars compared to, you know, 0:29:35.200 --> 0:29:38.680 putting an ad on some niche television channel for late 0:29:38.760 --> 0:29:43.080 night TV. On the flip side, for advertisers, they can 0:29:43.080 --> 0:29:47.120 negotiate a rate with websites for a certain number of impressions, 0:29:47.160 --> 0:29:50.240 which effectively replaced the duration limit for an ad. So 0:29:50.280 --> 0:29:53.240 instead of saying I want an ad running on this 0:29:53.320 --> 0:29:57.200 page for three months, you would say, all right, the 0:29:57.280 --> 0:30:01.040 web page has a CPM rate of ten dollars, meaning 0:30:01.080 --> 0:30:03.200 that you have to pay ten dollars for every one 0:30:03.320 --> 0:30:08.600 thousand views, and you might negotiate for a million impressions, 0:30:09.000 --> 0:30:11.920 which would mean that the advertiser would have to pay 0:30:11.920 --> 0:30:15.680 the website ten thousand dollars to carry that ad in 0:30:15.760 --> 0:30:18.520 order to generate a million impressions. And if the page 0:30:18.560 --> 0:30:20.720 got a million impressions in a couple of days, boom, 0:30:20.800 --> 0:30:24.400 that ad campaign was done. If it takes weeks, well, 0:30:24.480 --> 0:30:28.560 then the campaign would last longer. And obviously that CPM 0:30:28.720 --> 0:30:32.120 was different depending on the popularity of the website. Website 0:30:32.120 --> 0:30:34.120 that's not that popular would have a low CPM, and 0:30:34.120 --> 0:30:37.719 it would also take a longer time to reach whatever 0:30:37.800 --> 0:30:41.080 the agreed upon number of impressions was. By the way, 0:30:41.120 --> 0:30:44.400 this is also why there are a lot of websites 0:30:44.440 --> 0:30:47.400 that have things like quizzes and galleries where you have 0:30:47.520 --> 0:30:52.240 to scroll through each item. Like any website where it's 0:30:52.520 --> 0:30:57.720 top ten movies that feature ghosts that have hair in 0:30:57.760 --> 0:31:00.720 front of their face, and every single tree is its 0:31:00.760 --> 0:31:04.360 own web page. That's because every one of those web 0:31:04.400 --> 0:31:08.360 pages you go to, that's another impression. So it's a 0:31:08.400 --> 0:31:11.520 way of expanding the number of impressions and AD would 0:31:11.600 --> 0:31:15.280 get by making you have to reload the page over 0:31:15.320 --> 0:31:17.920 and over and over again. If all ten of those 0:31:17.920 --> 0:31:21.040 things were on one page, you would get one impression 0:31:21.160 --> 0:31:23.720 for that article. These things, by the way, also have 0:31:23.880 --> 0:31:26.880 massive drop off rates, like if they're not really compelling, 0:31:26.920 --> 0:31:30.479 people will bail on them within like two or three entries, 0:31:31.480 --> 0:31:35.320 so there's a diminishing returns thing going on with them. 0:31:35.400 --> 0:31:39.040 That's just some insight into how web pages generate revenue. 0:31:39.320 --> 0:31:42.600 I've been on that side, and it is not always 0:31:42.640 --> 0:31:47.160 fun anyway. A big part of all this is that 0:31:47.400 --> 0:31:51.880 the ad campaign wasn't tied to other performance metrics, right, 0:31:51.920 --> 0:31:54.240 So it wasn't whether or not people click through the 0:31:54.280 --> 0:31:57.680 ad or whether they actually made a purchase through the ad. 0:31:57.720 --> 0:32:01.000 This was just about how many people actually were exposed 0:32:01.120 --> 0:32:03.800 to the ad itself. The ad had to do the 0:32:03.840 --> 0:32:07.680 rest of the work. Then you had the emergence of 0:32:08.000 --> 0:32:11.640 double Click, that company which is now owned by Google. 0:32:11.800 --> 0:32:15.440 It was actually the focus of a big antitrust lawsuit 0:32:15.560 --> 0:32:18.040 that I'm not going to get into, but it was 0:32:18.080 --> 0:32:21.080 a big deal anyway, and let companies know which of 0:32:21.120 --> 0:32:24.360 their ads were most effective. So double click would give 0:32:24.440 --> 0:32:27.720 feedback to companies about which ads got the most impressions 0:32:27.760 --> 0:32:30.320 and click throughs, and those companies could then get a 0:32:30.360 --> 0:32:33.000 better idea of where they needed to spend their digital 0:32:33.040 --> 0:32:37.720 marketing dollars. Double clicks relationship with advertisers meant that there 0:32:37.760 --> 0:32:40.200 was a lot of rapid innovation in the web marketing 0:32:40.200 --> 0:32:44.200 space as companies began to hone in on what strategies 0:32:44.240 --> 0:32:49.000 worked and which ones didn't work. From there, you add 0:32:49.040 --> 0:32:52.520 all sorts of changes in the space. Some ads moved 0:32:52.560 --> 0:32:55.640 to pay per click models, so that was kind of 0:32:55.640 --> 0:32:59.080 going back to that conversion approach, where in this model 0:32:59.160 --> 0:33:02.520 and advertiser would only pay a website for the number 0:33:02.560 --> 0:33:06.280 of clicks that an ad received. That created an incentive 0:33:06.480 --> 0:33:09.360 for the website operators to try and make sure they 0:33:09.360 --> 0:33:12.880 were pairing ads with pages that would potentially drive the 0:33:12.960 --> 0:33:16.160 most traffic. So if you had a web page about 0:33:16.560 --> 0:33:20.760 I don't know, chainsaws, you probably wouldn't try and pair 0:33:20.920 --> 0:33:24.560 that page with an ad for perfume. Now I'm not 0:33:24.640 --> 0:33:28.360 saying there's no crossover between people who are interested in 0:33:28.440 --> 0:33:31.880 chainsaws and those who are interested in perfume, but from 0:33:31.880 --> 0:33:35.120 a marketing standpoint, you're probably not going to get the 0:33:35.280 --> 0:33:40.440 view that is the best use of your resources. And 0:33:40.520 --> 0:33:43.680 another big change around this time was to how people 0:33:43.720 --> 0:33:46.640 were accessing information on the web in general. While it 0:33:46.720 --> 0:33:50.400 might be theoretically possible to navigate the webs simply by 0:33:50.440 --> 0:33:53.680 following various hypertext links to get from point A to 0:33:53.760 --> 0:33:58.160 point B, to actually do it would be monumentally inefficient. 0:33:58.240 --> 0:34:00.680 I mean, you might have to pass through hundreds or 0:34:00.840 --> 0:34:03.720 thousands of sites to get from A to B. If 0:34:03.760 --> 0:34:07.400 you're limiting yourself to just following links that are on 0:34:07.520 --> 0:34:09.719 the page of A and trying to get to be 0:34:09.840 --> 0:34:12.120 that way, this can be a fun game by the way, 0:34:12.120 --> 0:34:14.520 a kind of seven degrees of separation kind of game, 0:34:15.040 --> 0:34:17.160 but it's not an efficient way to navigate the web. 0:34:17.480 --> 0:34:20.839 So Internet search engines were way more useful. You would 0:34:20.880 --> 0:34:23.760 put in your query in the search bar and boom, 0:34:24.040 --> 0:34:26.880 you got results that and, in theory at least best 0:34:26.920 --> 0:34:30.520 match whatever it was you're looking for. But this meant 0:34:31.000 --> 0:34:36.000 that search engines were incredible aggregators for user behavior. Not 0:34:36.200 --> 0:34:39.919 only could search engines keep itally on which search terms 0:34:39.920 --> 0:34:42.799 were the most popular at any given time, they could 0:34:42.840 --> 0:34:46.839 also consult those cookie files on users computers and see 0:34:46.880 --> 0:34:50.000 what other sites users have been visiting, and search engines 0:34:50.040 --> 0:34:53.440 could sell ads to. In fact, search engines made a 0:34:53.480 --> 0:34:57.719 subtle shift from being all about indexing the web and 0:34:57.800 --> 0:35:01.320 became more about monetizing search and getting into the data 0:35:01.360 --> 0:35:05.799 collection and advertising businesses. That's what happened to Google. I 0:35:05.800 --> 0:35:08.560 mean years ago you might call a you know, Google, 0:35:08.560 --> 0:35:11.840 a search company. Uh this was before the days of 0:35:11.920 --> 0:35:15.279 tons of other Google products emerged, like Google Cloud and 0:35:15.280 --> 0:35:18.560 Android and all that stuff. But at its heart, what 0:35:18.680 --> 0:35:21.640 Google really was wasn't a search engine. It was an 0:35:21.680 --> 0:35:25.400 advertising company. Companies could pay Google to have their sites 0:35:25.440 --> 0:35:28.799 pop up in searches as you know, results in a 0:35:28.840 --> 0:35:31.840 search result, they would be ads, they would be clearly 0:35:31.880 --> 0:35:35.319 marked his ads, but they would be advertised spots. And 0:35:35.360 --> 0:35:38.680 it gave those companies way more visibility than they might 0:35:38.719 --> 0:35:43.280 otherwise have. And Google can target specific users with ads 0:35:43.320 --> 0:35:47.520 that might appeal to them through a collection and analysis 0:35:47.560 --> 0:35:50.600 of all that personal data, both from the users cookies 0:35:50.640 --> 0:35:53.880 and their own searches history, and and if that person 0:35:53.920 --> 0:35:56.440 happens to be using Chrome or an Android device, well 0:35:56.440 --> 0:36:00.600 that's another kettle of fish entirely. So things took a 0:36:00.840 --> 0:36:06.000 massive downturn shortly after search engines began to dominate the 0:36:06.120 --> 0:36:09.160 data collection space, and that's because of the dot com 0:36:09.200 --> 0:36:12.600 bubble bursting in two thousand, two thousand one, and the 0:36:12.640 --> 0:36:16.520 world slid into an economic recession in general that particularly 0:36:16.600 --> 0:36:20.080 hit the online world hard. That was further exacerbated by 0:36:20.080 --> 0:36:22.880 the terrorist attacks on the United States on September eleven, 0:36:23.000 --> 0:36:27.359 two thousand one. But the industry did continue. There were 0:36:27.400 --> 0:36:30.160 just fewer players. Some of the bigger companies were able 0:36:30.200 --> 0:36:32.880 to survive all that turmoil, and the fact that the 0:36:33.040 --> 0:36:37.680 smaller competitors were largely wiped out meant that these companies. 0:36:37.840 --> 0:36:42.040 So companies like Google and Amazon now had an even 0:36:42.040 --> 0:36:45.520 more dominant position in the online world, so it would 0:36:45.560 --> 0:36:48.560 be very hard to overtake those companies, and both Google 0:36:48.600 --> 0:36:52.279 and Amazon are famous for jealously guarding their dominant positions. 0:36:53.280 --> 0:36:55.239 Move forward a few more years and you get the 0:36:55.320 --> 0:36:58.520 rise of social network platforms. My Space was one of 0:36:58.560 --> 0:37:02.000 the first really big social networks. It launched in two 0:37:02.040 --> 0:37:05.359 thousand three, but Facebook soon followed in two thousand four. 0:37:06.280 --> 0:37:08.680 My Space would be the most popular social network until 0:37:08.680 --> 0:37:12.360 about two thousand eight. That's when Facebook overtook it. But 0:37:12.440 --> 0:37:17.160 Facebook also introduced Facebook Ads in two thousand seven. Facebook 0:37:17.200 --> 0:37:21.280 offered even more data points about people than search engines could. 0:37:21.800 --> 0:37:25.760 I mean, people use social networks to connect with friends 0:37:25.920 --> 0:37:29.120 and to share stuff about themselves and the people they like. 0:37:29.480 --> 0:37:33.239 So people were willingly giving up tons of information that 0:37:33.360 --> 0:37:37.840 an advertiser might find extremely relevant. And so Facebook's business 0:37:37.880 --> 0:37:41.960 model largely fell into the realm of collecting and analyzing 0:37:42.000 --> 0:37:45.760 information about users, both from their activities on the platform 0:37:45.800 --> 0:37:50.879 itself and through the consultation of cookies, and Facebook could 0:37:51.000 --> 0:37:54.799 use that information to place highly relevant ads on specific 0:37:54.920 --> 0:38:02.880 user pages. This became the absolute foundation of Facebook strategy 0:38:03.000 --> 0:38:06.560 for the desktop experience, and how they generate revenue, and 0:38:06.600 --> 0:38:11.239 the value proposition Facebook has for advertisers is incredible. They 0:38:11.239 --> 0:38:15.200 can say, Hey, practically everyone in the world is on 0:38:15.239 --> 0:38:18.239 our platform, and we know what they all like and 0:38:18.280 --> 0:38:23.360 what they dislike because of cookies and their activities on Facebook. Plus, 0:38:23.719 --> 0:38:28.160 we've developed algorithms that keep people on Facebook longer. So 0:38:28.239 --> 0:38:31.279 if you advertise on us, we can make sure that 0:38:31.360 --> 0:38:33.759 the people who are most likely to respond to your 0:38:33.880 --> 0:38:37.480 ad are the people who see that ad, and we 0:38:37.520 --> 0:38:40.520 can make sure that they see your ad a lot. 0:38:41.719 --> 0:38:44.640 This also began to introduce the era of read targeting. 0:38:45.000 --> 0:38:47.480 So if you've ever had the experience of going to 0:38:47.800 --> 0:38:52.480 different websites but seeing the same ads play on those websites, 0:38:53.000 --> 0:38:57.080 you've been experiencing red targeting. Maybe you were doing some 0:38:57.200 --> 0:39:00.479 comparison shopping for I don't know how, with a brand 0:39:00.480 --> 0:39:04.280 new toaster, but for whatever reason, you didn't pull the trigger. 0:39:04.520 --> 0:39:06.880 Maybe you went as far as looking at a specific 0:39:06.920 --> 0:39:10.839 toasters page on a shopping site like Amazon, but you 0:39:10.920 --> 0:39:15.120 didn't move forward with the purchase. But now suddenly everywhere 0:39:15.160 --> 0:39:18.680 you go you seem to be seeing ads for that toaster, 0:39:19.360 --> 0:39:23.880 or maybe it's a different but similar toaster. This is retargeting. 0:39:24.280 --> 0:39:26.600 The cookies on your computer have a record of you 0:39:26.800 --> 0:39:29.799 visiting that toaster page, and they also include the fact 0:39:29.880 --> 0:39:32.440 that you didn't actually purchase the toaster when you went 0:39:32.520 --> 0:39:35.960 to that page. Those cookies allow various websites that have 0:39:36.120 --> 0:39:39.680 deals with ad companies that are working with this toaster 0:39:39.760 --> 0:39:44.640 manufacturer to dynamically insert ads for that toaster on all 0:39:44.680 --> 0:39:47.279 the various sites that you go to with the goal 0:39:47.360 --> 0:39:49.800 of convincing you to finally follow through on your purchase 0:39:49.840 --> 0:39:53.840 and buy that dang toaster. All right, we are still 0:39:53.880 --> 0:39:58.080 only just approaching the surface level of water from the 0:39:58.120 --> 0:40:02.080 tip of the iceberg. The really valuable stuff is below 0:40:02.160 --> 0:40:05.160 the surface, and we have Apple to thank for it. 0:40:05.760 --> 0:40:18.240 I'll explain more when we get back. On June seven, 0:40:18.320 --> 0:40:22.320 Apple launched the iPhone. While other smartphones predated the iPhone, 0:40:22.360 --> 0:40:24.240 it's safe to say that the iPhone was the first 0:40:24.360 --> 0:40:29.760 truly successful consumer smartphone that appealed to the mainstream market. Previously, 0:40:29.800 --> 0:40:34.680 smartphones pretty much just targeted geeks and executives. Now everybody 0:40:34.719 --> 0:40:38.680 wanted one. The smartphone would open up brand new opportunities 0:40:38.800 --> 0:40:42.200 for data collection. In two thousand eight, Apple launched the 0:40:42.239 --> 0:40:45.880 first iPhone to include a GPS chip. This allowed for 0:40:45.960 --> 0:40:49.160 really useful features for the users, such as real time 0:40:49.200 --> 0:40:51.239 maps that can give you an accurate view of your 0:40:51.280 --> 0:40:55.680 current location. That was huge, right, enormous benefit, But it 0:40:55.760 --> 0:40:58.920 also meant that along with all the data that companies 0:40:58.960 --> 0:41:02.080 could access thanks to cookies and social media posts and 0:41:02.120 --> 0:41:06.680 search engine activity, they can now also add location data 0:41:06.880 --> 0:41:09.680 to the mix as well. Now companies can know what 0:41:09.800 --> 0:41:12.319 you were doing online and where you were in the 0:41:12.360 --> 0:41:15.640 actual world. Now, to be clear, companies could do that 0:41:15.680 --> 0:41:18.360 for folks who were accessing the Internet on desktops or 0:41:18.440 --> 0:41:21.239 laptops as well. It's just that we don't tend to 0:41:21.360 --> 0:41:24.279 carry desktops around with us at all, and for those 0:41:24.280 --> 0:41:26.799 of us who do use laptops, we don't have them 0:41:26.880 --> 0:41:31.240 on an active all the time. But a smartphone that's different. 0:41:31.520 --> 0:41:33.919 That's a device that can ping back to home base 0:41:34.239 --> 0:41:36.719 several times a day, sometimes more than a hundred times 0:41:36.719 --> 0:41:39.520 a day, and that pain can include stuff like how 0:41:39.600 --> 0:41:42.319 much screen time you've spent on the device that day, 0:41:42.640 --> 0:41:46.240 what apps you've been using, what sites and services you've accessed, 0:41:46.600 --> 0:41:50.440 and where in the world you happen to be. And again, 0:41:50.840 --> 0:41:53.919 this allows companies to target more specific ads your way, 0:41:54.239 --> 0:41:56.839 and now those ads could be location based as well 0:41:56.880 --> 0:42:00.200 as activity based. So maybe you're wandering around a new 0:42:00.239 --> 0:42:03.279 city and you start seeing ads for specific locations like 0:42:03.440 --> 0:42:07.560 restaurants or shops or amusement parks or whatever. On the 0:42:07.600 --> 0:42:09.879 one hand, that could be really useful as you try 0:42:09.960 --> 0:42:12.440 to find things that you might want to experience in 0:42:12.480 --> 0:42:15.239 a new place. But on the other it indicated that 0:42:15.320 --> 0:42:18.880 the smartphone was really gathering a ton of information about you. 0:42:19.719 --> 0:42:22.120 And then there's that scenario I mentioned at the top 0:42:22.160 --> 0:42:24.640 of this episode. If you hang out with other folks 0:42:24.640 --> 0:42:28.840 and everyone happens to have a smartphone, everyone is generating data, 0:42:28.920 --> 0:42:31.759 whether they're actively using their phones or not. And part 0:42:31.760 --> 0:42:34.919 of that data isn't just what they're doing or where 0:42:34.960 --> 0:42:37.960 they are, but also who there with. And now our 0:42:38.000 --> 0:42:41.560 relationships with one another, the time we spend with each other, 0:42:41.600 --> 0:42:45.000 and the places where we spend it, that all becomes 0:42:45.120 --> 0:42:48.720 part of the data grab as well. It represents another 0:42:48.760 --> 0:42:52.560 way that companies can leverage and exploit the information we generate. 0:42:53.280 --> 0:42:56.160 One of the industries that grew out of all of 0:42:56.200 --> 0:43:00.680 this was the data brokerage industry. These are companies that 0:43:00.800 --> 0:43:06.319 collect and maintain massive data repositories about well about us. 0:43:06.920 --> 0:43:09.960 These companies buy and sell personal information as if it 0:43:10.000 --> 0:43:13.320 were any other commodity, because for a lot of entities 0:43:13.320 --> 0:43:17.080 out there, that's exactly what our personal information is. So 0:43:17.239 --> 0:43:19.520 even for companies that might not have the means to 0:43:19.560 --> 0:43:23.960 collect your personal data directly through their own services, can 0:43:24.040 --> 0:43:27.760 pay to get hold of those sweet ones and zeros 0:43:27.800 --> 0:43:31.280 through using data brokers. The U. S State of Vermont 0:43:31.440 --> 0:43:34.040 passed a law a couple of years ago that mandated 0:43:34.080 --> 0:43:37.440 that any company that bought or sold third party personal 0:43:37.520 --> 0:43:41.439 data had to register with the Secretary of State. As 0:43:41.440 --> 0:43:45.520 a result, one hundred twenty one companies registered with the 0:43:45.640 --> 0:43:49.400 Vermont state government. The companies didn't have to provide information 0:43:49.480 --> 0:43:52.560 about who was in their databases. They didn't have to 0:43:52.600 --> 0:43:56.040 say how many people were in them. The rules didn't 0:43:56.040 --> 0:44:00.680 require that these companies make available any information about consumers 0:44:00.719 --> 0:44:03.960 to those consumers, which means if you wanted to check 0:44:04.000 --> 0:44:08.200 to see how much dirt any of those companies might 0:44:08.280 --> 0:44:11.840 have on you, and you, you know, lived in Vermont, 0:44:12.080 --> 0:44:14.279 well you would kind of still be out of luck 0:44:14.320 --> 0:44:16.839 because the law didn't go that far. The law did 0:44:16.880 --> 0:44:19.720 require that the companies had to inform the government about 0:44:19.760 --> 0:44:23.280 any kind of opt out features that the companies provided, 0:44:23.640 --> 0:44:26.719 but that only assumed that they actually were providing an 0:44:26.719 --> 0:44:30.959 opt out feature for the average consumer. What this means 0:44:31.040 --> 0:44:33.920 is that there are more than one companies trafficking and 0:44:34.000 --> 0:44:37.560 personal data, and yours could be among them, and to 0:44:37.680 --> 0:44:41.319 opt out of that system, you would have to contact 0:44:41.440 --> 0:44:44.200 each and every one of these data brokers and go 0:44:44.280 --> 0:44:48.120 through whatever process they might have in order to opt out, 0:44:48.880 --> 0:44:53.040 because by default we are all opted into that system. 0:44:53.080 --> 0:44:55.759 In some cases, we did have a choice, in the 0:44:55.800 --> 0:44:58.360 sense that the choice was whether or not we wanted 0:44:58.360 --> 0:45:02.000 to use a specific service or platform or visit a 0:45:02.040 --> 0:45:05.960 specific website. Again, this is frequently where those long user 0:45:06.000 --> 0:45:08.720 agreements come in, the ones most of us skip right over, 0:45:08.840 --> 0:45:11.040 so that we just click on that I agree button 0:45:11.080 --> 0:45:13.560 and get on with it. We might not be aware 0:45:13.760 --> 0:45:15.560 that we just gave consent to have all of our 0:45:15.640 --> 0:45:18.640 data collected, but that's arguably on us if we didn't 0:45:18.680 --> 0:45:22.200 bother to read the terms and conditions. But in other cases, 0:45:22.560 --> 0:45:25.040 we might not ever have really had a chance to 0:45:25.120 --> 0:45:28.560 opt out of a specific data brokers collections at all 0:45:29.080 --> 0:45:31.919 because we never had direct contact with some of those 0:45:32.000 --> 0:45:36.280 data brokers. Because again information is bought, sold, and traded 0:45:36.360 --> 0:45:39.200 like crazy. So some of these companies are just buying 0:45:39.280 --> 0:45:42.359 up data that was collected by someone else and we 0:45:42.440 --> 0:45:46.520 only ever had contact with that initial point. So as 0:45:46.560 --> 0:45:48.480 an example, let's say that you sign up for a 0:45:48.560 --> 0:45:53.360 social networking platform. We'll call it space Look. So you 0:45:53.440 --> 0:45:57.160 sign up on space Look, and there's this long, boring 0:45:57.280 --> 0:46:00.160 passage of information that you've got to scroll through so 0:46:00.200 --> 0:46:02.400 that you can click the I Agree button, so you 0:46:02.480 --> 0:46:04.880 zoom past all the dull stuff so that you can 0:46:04.920 --> 0:46:08.280 finally get to uploading photos of your adorable kitty cat online. 0:46:08.800 --> 0:46:12.520 But in that dull passage, there are terms that explain 0:46:12.600 --> 0:46:16.120 that space Look will be collecting information about you and 0:46:16.160 --> 0:46:19.520 then using the information to serve you ads. And in addition, 0:46:19.920 --> 0:46:23.640 space Look might also sell or share your personal information 0:46:23.920 --> 0:46:28.399 with other third party entities. So you've effectively signed over 0:46:28.440 --> 0:46:31.440 your personal data to space Look for it to do 0:46:31.520 --> 0:46:34.080 whatever it wants with it within the confines of the 0:46:34.120 --> 0:46:37.560 agreement that you've clicked on, and your info might get 0:46:37.600 --> 0:46:40.920 sent to various data brokers that otherwise you have never 0:46:40.960 --> 0:46:47.080 heard of and never contacted. But wait, it gets worse. Recently, 0:46:47.520 --> 0:46:50.160 Facebook and Google have been in the News for putting 0:46:50.200 --> 0:46:51.920 up a bit of a fuss when it comes to 0:46:52.000 --> 0:46:55.080 the types of data collection that are available to them. 0:46:55.440 --> 0:46:58.960 Facebook got upset at Apple for a new change in 0:46:59.040 --> 0:47:03.040 privacy settings on iOS devices, and it requires Facebook to 0:47:03.080 --> 0:47:06.880 inform users about how it wants to collect data regarding 0:47:07.200 --> 0:47:10.719 user activity on those iOS devices. So like iPhones and 0:47:11.320 --> 0:47:15.160 you know, iPads, things like that, that activity includes the 0:47:15.280 --> 0:47:18.480 use of other apps on the device. So, in other words, 0:47:19.320 --> 0:47:23.360 Facebook collects information on users app activity even if that 0:47:23.440 --> 0:47:27.319 activity isn't directly involving Facebook itself. So if you do 0:47:27.360 --> 0:47:30.640 any banking on your phone, or shopping, or maybe you 0:47:30.680 --> 0:47:34.239 play certain mobile games, well, Facebook wants to know about 0:47:34.280 --> 0:47:39.320 all that because that data is valuable. Apples change requires 0:47:39.320 --> 0:47:43.360 Facebook to alert users that it wants to collect that data, 0:47:43.520 --> 0:47:46.920 kind of like this, this app wants to know your location. 0:47:47.040 --> 0:47:49.800 Is that okay? It's similar to that, And it gives 0:47:49.920 --> 0:47:52.960 the chance for users to opt out of that process 0:47:53.200 --> 0:47:57.040 right then and there in that alert. And Facebook hates 0:47:57.320 --> 0:48:00.319 that because if you give people the choice is to 0:48:00.440 --> 0:48:05.000 not be tracked, often they take that choice. They just 0:48:05.280 --> 0:48:08.879 you know, have to know about it first. So if 0:48:08.920 --> 0:48:12.759 you aren't allowed to bury that notice in page two 0:48:12.800 --> 0:48:15.920 of settings or in a deep user agreement, Well, then 0:48:15.920 --> 0:48:18.520 a lot of folks might just take the option to 0:48:18.640 --> 0:48:22.640 opt out, which means that's a hit on Facebook's revenue, 0:48:23.000 --> 0:48:26.120 and Facebook and a fan of that, it has launched 0:48:26.160 --> 0:48:29.360 a little bit of a campaign that essentially argues that 0:48:29.440 --> 0:48:32.560 Apple's new rules are harmful to small businesses and that 0:48:32.600 --> 0:48:36.400 people should feel badly about opting out, which is um, 0:48:36.560 --> 0:48:40.319 super disingenuous. If you ask me, Facebook, I don't think 0:48:40.440 --> 0:48:44.080 is at all concerned about small businesses except to the 0:48:44.160 --> 0:48:49.560 extent at which those small businesses spend money on Facebook. Similarly, 0:48:50.080 --> 0:48:53.440 Google was in the news when internal documents leaked showing 0:48:53.520 --> 0:48:57.759 that the company had leaned hard on Android device manufacturers 0:48:58.440 --> 0:49:04.480 to hide geo tracking opt out features deep in settings. 0:49:04.560 --> 0:49:07.160 And so Google was essentially saying, hey, that's cool that 0:49:07.200 --> 0:49:09.239 you want to make this Android smartphone, do us a 0:49:09.280 --> 0:49:12.480 solid for the geo tracking stuff. Hide that like on 0:49:12.600 --> 0:49:15.120 page two or three of your settings, so that nobody 0:49:15.160 --> 0:49:18.040 ever bothers to go that far. And the goal was 0:49:18.080 --> 0:49:20.120 just to make it harder for people to find where 0:49:20.160 --> 0:49:22.800 they could turn off geo tracking, so that the company 0:49:22.840 --> 0:49:26.120 could continue to collect that sweet data without too many 0:49:26.160 --> 0:49:31.719 people opting out dirty pool Google. Just a few years ago, 0:49:31.880 --> 0:49:34.480 all this data would have been alarming, but it also 0:49:34.800 --> 0:49:36.839 would have been kind of burdened by the fact that 0:49:37.200 --> 0:49:41.000 there's just so much information that's hard to do anything 0:49:41.040 --> 0:49:44.240 with it. So it's one thing to collect enormous amounts 0:49:44.239 --> 0:49:47.440 of personal information, but it's another to actually find a 0:49:47.520 --> 0:49:50.359 meaningful use for all that data. You get a lot 0:49:50.400 --> 0:49:53.360 of noise along with a little bit of signal. But 0:49:53.440 --> 0:49:57.360 over the past few years, data analysis has advanced dramatically 0:49:57.520 --> 0:50:01.400 and it's become much more sophisticated. Big data, which was 0:50:01.400 --> 0:50:04.240 a buzz term that came largely from the marketing world, 0:50:05.040 --> 0:50:07.840 is a real thing now, and when paired with systems 0:50:07.840 --> 0:50:11.719 that use strategies like machine learning, advertising companies are able 0:50:11.760 --> 0:50:15.120 to get incredibly detailed looks at who each of us 0:50:15.239 --> 0:50:19.719 happens to be. Our data can be parsed and contextualized 0:50:20.080 --> 0:50:24.000 in millions of ways that are incredibly valuable to countless 0:50:24.000 --> 0:50:28.480 people and organizations. Some of those might be largely benign, 0:50:28.880 --> 0:50:32.560 or at least no more malicious than your typical capitalistic endeavor, 0:50:32.960 --> 0:50:36.440 but some might be way more malevolent. And of course 0:50:36.560 --> 0:50:40.160 I haven't even touched on the burden of good stewardship 0:50:40.280 --> 0:50:44.040 when it comes to protecting data. Many of those one 0:50:44.160 --> 0:50:47.680 data broker companies have been targets of hackers, and more 0:50:47.760 --> 0:50:50.360 than a few have had some pretty nasty data breaches 0:50:50.520 --> 0:50:54.319 over the years. So I guess the whole point of 0:50:54.320 --> 0:50:57.279 this episode is to really explain how technology in the 0:50:57.320 --> 0:51:02.680 digital age largely centers around the collection and exploitation of information, 0:51:03.040 --> 0:51:05.800 and that a lot of that information comes from people 0:51:05.880 --> 0:51:08.919 like us, and that if we feel strongly about that, 0:51:09.280 --> 0:51:13.560 we have to take steps to address this issue. Unfortunately, 0:51:13.680 --> 0:51:18.439 right now, those steps are often laborious and convoluted. It's 0:51:18.600 --> 0:51:24.240 easy to get discouraged. It's easy to prioritize convenience over privacy. 0:51:24.360 --> 0:51:27.399 It's easy to give into the statement that Mark Zuckerberg 0:51:27.440 --> 0:51:31.560 famously made in two when he said privacy is dead. 0:51:32.239 --> 0:51:37.040 But as we see implementations of systems that exploit our data, 0:51:37.160 --> 0:51:42.759 and as these become undeniably more invasive, it might benefit 0:51:42.880 --> 0:51:45.799 us to look at them more closely and act in 0:51:45.840 --> 0:51:49.560 our own self interest, because I assure you most of 0:51:49.560 --> 0:51:52.080 these companies are not going to do that for us. 0:51:52.960 --> 0:51:56.880 I'm talking to you, Stephanie, yes, you. I've personalized this 0:51:56.920 --> 0:52:01.160 episode for every listener, and you, step phany need to 0:52:01.200 --> 0:52:05.400 take action. I'm kidding. I didn't personalize this podcast, and 0:52:05.440 --> 0:52:08.840 anyone not named Stephanie is probably just confused, and anyone 0:52:08.840 --> 0:52:11.759 who is named Stephanie is probably flipping out. But no, 0:52:11.880 --> 0:52:13.799 I just wrote that as a joke. But it is 0:52:13.840 --> 0:52:16.040 the sort of thing that websites and apps and other 0:52:16.080 --> 0:52:21.000 Internet related services can do for reals. In fact, technically, 0:52:21.360 --> 0:52:24.040 with enough work, a podcast like this could probably do 0:52:24.120 --> 0:52:25.959 it too. It would just require me to go through 0:52:26.760 --> 0:52:29.279 a very long list of names and record them and 0:52:29.320 --> 0:52:33.480 then have dynamic insertion of that statement in the podcast 0:52:33.840 --> 0:52:36.600 and targeted to specific listeners. It would be a lot 0:52:36.600 --> 0:52:38.440 of work, is what I'm saying, something that I am 0:52:38.480 --> 0:52:42.239 not willing to do, but it could be done, and 0:52:42.320 --> 0:52:46.719 maybe that's not always a good thing. All right. That 0:52:46.800 --> 0:52:50.400 wraps up this very long soapbox edition of tech Stuff. 0:52:50.440 --> 0:52:53.920 Hope you guys learned something in that and found some 0:52:54.040 --> 0:52:57.080 value in that discussion. I will be doing some more 0:52:57.120 --> 0:53:01.560 episodes about privacy related materials like Kappa. I do want 0:53:01.600 --> 0:53:05.040 to talk about that and the intent of that legislation 0:53:05.080 --> 0:53:07.560 as well as the actual impact of it, So look 0:53:07.600 --> 0:53:09.400 forward to that in the future. But If you have 0:53:09.480 --> 0:53:11.799 suggestions for things I should cover in future episodes of 0:53:11.800 --> 0:53:14.120 tech Stuff, reach out to me. The best place to 0:53:14.160 --> 0:53:16.680 do that is on Twitter. The handle for the show 0:53:16.840 --> 0:53:19.880 is tech Stuff H s W and I'll talk to 0:53:19.880 --> 0:53:28.919 you again really soon. Tech Stuff is an I Heart 0:53:29.000 --> 0:53:32.759 Radio production. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit 0:53:32.800 --> 0:53:35.840 the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 0:53:35.960 --> 0:53:37.280 listen to your favorite shows.