WEBVTT - Buck Brief - Chris Frueh on 'Operator Syndrome' 0:00:11.697 --> 0:00:14.937 You're listening to the Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure 0:00:14.977 --> 0:00:17.977 you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or 0:00:18.017 --> 0:00:19.737 wherever you get your podcasts. 0:00:20.097 --> 0:00:22.537 Hi, everybody, welcome to the Buck Brief. On this episode, 0:00:22.657 --> 0:00:25.777 our friend Chris Free joins us. Now he's got a 0:00:25.817 --> 0:00:29.577 book out, operator syndrome. He wants to talk to us 0:00:29.577 --> 0:00:35.417 about this very important phenomenon that faces our military veterans. 0:00:35.577 --> 0:00:39.377 And Chris, would you first just tell everybody about yourself 0:00:39.457 --> 0:00:41.177 and how you came to this point, just give some 0:00:41.217 --> 0:00:44.937 background before we dive into operator syndrome and the medical 0:00:44.977 --> 0:00:46.977 and behavioral components of it. 0:00:47.817 --> 0:00:52.257 Sure. So, first of all, thanks for having me Buck. So, 0:00:52.777 --> 0:00:55.697 my father was a Vietnam veteran growing up, he was 0:00:55.777 --> 0:00:59.217 not a combatant, he was an Air Force physician. And 0:00:59.417 --> 0:01:02.297 my great grandfather, who I knew very well, was a 0:01:02.777 --> 0:01:05.697 veteran of the Spanish American War. He fought at the 0:01:05.737 --> 0:01:08.577 Battle of San Juan Hill. So, as a young man, 0:01:08.617 --> 0:01:12.457 after college, I want to work with veterans. Went to school, 0:01:12.497 --> 0:01:15.297 got a PhD in clinical psychology in nineteen ninety two, 0:01:15.377 --> 0:01:17.257 and I worked in the VA system and the Medical 0:01:17.377 --> 0:01:21.617 University of South Carolina for fifteen years. Left there in 0:01:21.657 --> 0:01:23.737 two thousand and six, and I've been at the University 0:01:23.817 --> 0:01:28.137 of Hawaii ever since, and along the way about half 0:01:28.417 --> 0:01:30.617 you know, quite a bit of my time. For twelve years, 0:01:30.617 --> 0:01:33.017 I commuted to Houston every month for work, first at 0:01:33.057 --> 0:01:36.337 Baylor College Medicine and the University of Texas. So my 0:01:36.457 --> 0:01:40.617 career has been a mixture of clinical work, teaching, and 0:01:40.737 --> 0:01:42.897 quite a bit of research. So I have over three 0:01:42.977 --> 0:01:47.817 hundred scientific publications and all the grants and presentations and 0:01:47.817 --> 0:01:50.817 all that stuff. But my passion has been working with 0:01:50.897 --> 0:01:54.057 the special operations community over the last decade or so, 0:01:55.137 --> 0:02:00.337 and that includes operators from every branch of the US military, 0:02:01.217 --> 0:02:07.217 including probably maybe several hundred Tier one operators, maybe one 0:02:07.257 --> 0:02:10.497 hundred Tier one operators. I've worked with people that are 0:02:10.537 --> 0:02:14.697 still active duty, no longer active. A lot of the 0:02:14.737 --> 0:02:17.857 work has also been with private defense contractors, which is 0:02:17.897 --> 0:02:22.177 an invisible population to Americans because America doesn't know how 0:02:22.257 --> 0:02:26.217 many people who deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan during the 0:02:26.297 --> 0:02:31.177 last twenty plus years were not deployed as members of 0:02:31.177 --> 0:02:33.897 the armed forces but were private defense contractors. 0:02:34.617 --> 0:02:37.817 How do you first come upon your research on this 0:02:38.097 --> 0:02:43.457 specific constellation of medical and behavioral health care needs of 0:02:43.537 --> 0:02:46.857 military special operations forces. As I'm reading from your article 0:02:46.897 --> 0:02:50.657 here that toute operator syndrome. How do you find yourself 0:02:50.737 --> 0:02:55.017 first finding yourself drawn to the study of this and 0:02:55.097 --> 0:02:56.457 this challenge and this problem. 0:02:58.017 --> 0:03:00.657 Well, if we back up to nineteen ninety two in 0:03:00.697 --> 0:03:03.577 my career, when I started at the VA, and I 0:03:03.617 --> 0:03:06.057 really loved working at the VIA. I loved my patients. 0:03:06.657 --> 0:03:09.057 Most of the people I worked with were Vietnam era 0:03:09.177 --> 0:03:12.657 veterans I'm Korean, even some World War II veterans still 0:03:12.697 --> 0:03:15.537 coming into the VA at that time. What I didn't 0:03:15.617 --> 0:03:18.617 love about my job, and by two thousand and six 0:03:18.697 --> 0:03:20.537 I just couldn't take it anymore. What I didn't love 0:03:20.657 --> 0:03:23.897 was the bureaucracy of the VA and the politics and 0:03:23.937 --> 0:03:27.257 the policies, and the harm that I saw the VA 0:03:27.457 --> 0:03:31.497 was doing too many veterans via their policies, and the 0:03:31.577 --> 0:03:33.537 poor care and the lack of care that was pretty 0:03:33.617 --> 0:03:38.137 predominant in many ways. So that's why I left the VA, 0:03:38.177 --> 0:03:43.617 and a few years later, really just by fortune, good fortune, 0:03:43.697 --> 0:03:48.057 I made some friends in Houston who were former operators. 0:03:48.137 --> 0:03:52.617 One was a Tier one Navy seal who had been 0:03:52.657 --> 0:03:55.337 on a lot of the big time missions that movies 0:03:55.377 --> 0:03:58.457 have been made about. And I also met guys from 0:03:58.617 --> 0:04:02.057 Army and Marines and Air Force while I was there, 0:04:02.057 --> 0:04:04.537 and so just kind of had a friend circle of 0:04:04.937 --> 0:04:09.777 former operators. One of the things that was interesting and 0:04:10.057 --> 0:04:14.137 infusing was they did not seem to have PTSD. And 0:04:14.177 --> 0:04:18.817 a very common thing that I was hearing initially was, hey, 0:04:18.817 --> 0:04:22.337 can you help me. I don't know what's wrong. Something 0:04:22.417 --> 0:04:26.537 is off. I feel different, but I don't know what 0:04:26.577 --> 0:04:29.937 it is. And so with my background of PTSD, I 0:04:29.937 --> 0:04:33.257 thought I had this expertise blah blah blah. Turns out 0:04:33.297 --> 0:04:35.617 I did not have expertise. Turns out I did not 0:04:35.697 --> 0:04:38.377 know how to help these guys. So these are my friends, 0:04:38.417 --> 0:04:41.977 and we're just kind of playing trial and error. Let's 0:04:41.977 --> 0:04:44.417 get a sleep study, Well, let's get a blood test, 0:04:44.457 --> 0:04:48.617 and let's look at your hormones. Let's have a conversation. 0:04:49.737 --> 0:04:52.017 Can I talk to your spouse or your partner and 0:04:52.097 --> 0:04:54.697 get some information about how you behave, how you think, 0:04:54.817 --> 0:04:57.977 how you function, and how you sleep. And it was 0:04:58.017 --> 0:05:02.377 eye opening, and gradually, over time I kept seeing it 0:05:02.417 --> 0:05:06.657 was the same pattern of injuries and illnesses over and 0:05:06.697 --> 0:05:11.137 over and over again. Every guy I met had low testosterone. Hell, 0:05:11.217 --> 0:05:14.737 how is that possible? Why does a big, strong, thirty 0:05:14.777 --> 0:05:18.017 seven year old Navy seal who's just a year out, 0:05:18.057 --> 0:05:21.097 why does he have low testosterone? I didn't understand that. 0:05:21.337 --> 0:05:25.497 So over the course of time, we began I and 0:05:25.577 --> 0:05:28.257 some of my colleagues who kind of shared an interest. 0:05:28.377 --> 0:05:31.097 We talked with a lot of guys and a lot 0:05:31.097 --> 0:05:33.137 of listening and a lot of trial and error, but 0:05:33.257 --> 0:05:35.377 we began to figure some things out. We began to 0:05:35.377 --> 0:05:37.897 find that we could help guys, and from there it 0:05:37.977 --> 0:05:41.257 was just a matter of word of mouth, just hey, 0:05:41.297 --> 0:05:44.817 you help my friend, could you talk you helped me? 0:05:44.977 --> 0:05:46.617 Could you talk to my friend? Maybe you can help 0:05:46.657 --> 0:05:49.857 my friend, and then the friends of friends. So in 0:05:49.897 --> 0:05:53.417 the last decade, I would say I've come to just organically, 0:05:53.777 --> 0:05:56.257 I've probably talked to two hundred and fifty three hundred 0:05:56.257 --> 0:06:00.657 and fifty operators, and then I've also done some forensic 0:06:01.137 --> 0:06:04.937 work on the side of the defense private defense contractors, 0:06:04.977 --> 0:06:07.377 so I've worked with I think I've evaluated over two 0:06:07.417 --> 0:06:11.817 hundred and fifty private defense contractors putting in Defense Base 0:06:11.857 --> 0:06:13.697 Act insurance claims. 0:06:13.737 --> 0:06:16.337 So what what is operators syndrome and how is it 0:06:16.337 --> 0:06:19.777 different from PTSD Yeah. 0:06:19.017 --> 0:06:22.537 So well, let's start with how are operators different? And 0:06:22.857 --> 0:06:26.977 I'm gonna let's acknowledge there's a formal definition of operators. 0:06:26.977 --> 0:06:30.497 Somebody who's gone through selection and then training for a 0:06:30.817 --> 0:06:34.337 you know, for one of the special operations units. That's 0:06:34.417 --> 0:06:39.817 Navy Seals, that's Army Special Forces, that's and I include 0:06:40.337 --> 0:06:44.457 ranger rangers in there, that is Marine raiders, and Force 0:06:44.617 --> 0:06:50.297 recon that is Air Force pjs and combat controllers. And 0:06:50.497 --> 0:06:53.657 there's you know, paramilitary. You know from your your prior 0:06:53.697 --> 0:06:58.657 work that the the intelligence agencies have paramilitary and they 0:06:58.737 --> 0:07:05.137 employ private defense contractors global response, and so that's that's 0:07:05.177 --> 0:07:06.657 kind of the def I mean, that's kind of the 0:07:06.657 --> 0:07:09.297 people we're talking about. And then what makes them different 0:07:09.337 --> 0:07:13.337 from convention? This is something I think most people have 0:07:13.417 --> 0:07:17.017 no awareness of. Yeah, everybody knows that a Green Beret 0:07:17.097 --> 0:07:21.657 is cool, he's a badass dude, but nobody really understands 0:07:21.697 --> 0:07:25.657 the magnitude of the differences. So what we're talking about 0:07:25.857 --> 0:07:31.297 is just extensive experience, training and deployments with blasts. Last 0:07:31.377 --> 0:07:34.657 exposures cause a very unique type of damage to the brain. 0:07:34.817 --> 0:07:38.897 If you're standing within the radius that explosion is going 0:07:38.977 --> 0:07:40.577 to pass through the body. It's going to have a 0:07:40.617 --> 0:07:44.377 sharing effect through all of the soft tissue in the body. 0:07:44.457 --> 0:07:49.937 You have the incredibly high operational tempo going in and out. 0:07:51.217 --> 0:07:53.737 There's very little time off, so you do a six 0:07:53.817 --> 0:07:58.137 month deployment. On that deployment, you may be running missions 0:07:58.497 --> 0:08:03.137 twice a week, twice a night. Oftentimes it's nighttime work, 0:08:04.057 --> 0:08:08.617 not daytime work, so the sleep schedule is shifted and dysregulated. 0:08:09.177 --> 0:08:12.617 Come home from the employment, and then there's new training 0:08:12.617 --> 0:08:17.577 evolutions constantly, so there's really very very little downtime. That 0:08:17.737 --> 0:08:23.617 high operational tempo means our soldiers are living with chronically 0:08:23.657 --> 0:08:29.137 elevated cortisol and stress hormones flowing through their blood constantly. 0:08:29.257 --> 0:08:34.737 The sleep is always jacked up to some extent. Then 0:08:34.777 --> 0:08:40.217 you have the You have the massive amount of chronic 0:08:40.257 --> 0:08:44.177 pain on the joints, jumping out a helicopter, repelling out 0:08:44.177 --> 0:08:47.417 of helicopters, jumping out of perfectly good airplanes, rocking with 0:08:47.457 --> 0:08:51.377 heavy weight and body armor. Every guy I know who 0:08:51.417 --> 0:08:58.057 by the time he's thirty, has chronic pain and shoulders, neck, back, knees, elbows, ankles. 0:08:59.377 --> 0:09:03.297 That adds another burden. So part of how we describe 0:09:03.337 --> 0:09:08.297 this as allostatic load. Alostatic load is a is a hypothetical. 0:09:08.497 --> 0:09:11.537 It's not a specific it doesn't refer to anything specific, 0:09:11.577 --> 0:09:16.017 but it's a hypothetical construct that refers to the entire 0:09:16.337 --> 0:09:20.737 dose of everything that is on a soldier's back for 0:09:20.817 --> 0:09:24.457 the course of their career. And that's another thing that's different. 0:09:24.657 --> 0:09:27.537 Most operators have careers that are ten years long or 0:09:27.577 --> 0:09:31.577 fifteen or twenty. Very few of them are doing a 0:09:31.617 --> 0:09:33.897 four year enlistment and then being out. In fact, that's 0:09:33.937 --> 0:09:37.017 almost notheard of. So it's not just that they have 0:09:38.097 --> 0:09:42.217 maybe a magnitude of blast exposures that's ten thousand times 0:09:42.377 --> 0:09:45.657 more than a conventional soldier in one given year, but 0:09:45.697 --> 0:09:48.737 they're doing that for twenty years maybe, So you just 0:09:48.777 --> 0:09:52.897 have an incredible burden on the entire body. Then you 0:09:53.017 --> 0:09:57.777 talk about then you have the toxic exposures. Are soldiers 0:09:57.857 --> 0:10:00.937 in the Special Forces and we're seeing this now. It's 0:10:01.017 --> 0:10:05.657 just emerging the high rates of cancer and respiratory illnesses. Yes, 0:10:05.737 --> 0:10:07.537 we know burn pits are a thing, and those have 0:10:07.617 --> 0:10:12.777 affected soldiers from all branches who deployed, But it's not 0:10:12.817 --> 0:10:15.777 the burn pits that are really hammering the community of 0:10:15.777 --> 0:10:21.097 Special Operations it's the radiological materials, the biological materials. It's 0:10:21.137 --> 0:10:26.697 the the many doses of vaccines and shots that they've received, 0:10:26.697 --> 0:10:30.657 how much anthrax Us as a has a Navy seal 0:10:31.377 --> 0:10:34.417 received by the end of his career. Then you have 0:10:34.697 --> 0:10:38.337 the you just have the mystery things that are out 0:10:38.337 --> 0:10:43.137 there wandering around a field, wandering around an airfield in 0:10:43.217 --> 0:10:45.977 some other country. I won't say, I won't name countries, 0:10:46.017 --> 0:10:50.937 but countries around Afghanistan where old Soviet military bases were, 0:10:51.337 --> 0:10:55.977 and they're there for weeks months. I've talked to soldiers, 0:10:55.977 --> 0:11:00.217 contractors who spent year at these places. They're describing green 0:11:00.377 --> 0:11:05.657 ponds floating in the dirt. What's that? What's going on there? 0:11:06.297 --> 0:11:09.177 One of the gentlemen that I met, who that I know, 0:11:09.217 --> 0:11:12.857 who was one of these places, describes how he developed 0:11:13.257 --> 0:11:16.537 type one diabetes, Type one, type one diabetes. 0:11:16.657 --> 0:11:19.257 So you have to be born with that, right, is correct? 0:11:19.457 --> 0:11:22.177 Correct, But if you get your your you know, you 0:11:22.217 --> 0:11:26.737 get your pancreatic your pancreas smoked there, then you've got 0:11:26.777 --> 0:11:29.057 you know, you're gonna have some real issues. So there 0:11:29.097 --> 0:11:32.417 are there are maladies that we don't barely even understand. 0:11:33.337 --> 0:11:36.337 I got a text about fifteen minutes ago before we 0:11:36.377 --> 0:11:39.137 went on the air from a friend who spent twenty 0:11:39.137 --> 0:11:44.777 five years. At first it's SF and then Delta, who 0:11:45.017 --> 0:11:48.777 is in his mid forties and he just received a pacemaker, 0:11:49.737 --> 0:11:52.657 and it's not for the usual reasons that people receive 0:11:52.697 --> 0:11:56.217 a pacemaker for. And he, you know, he just can't 0:11:56.217 --> 0:11:59.417 get his blood pressure regulated. He's on he's been diagnosed 0:11:59.457 --> 0:12:03.697 with Parkinson's disease. He's concerned about, you know, sometimes several 0:12:03.697 --> 0:12:07.697 doctors have told him he has als. Doctors themselves can't 0:12:07.737 --> 0:12:09.537 figure out what's going on with a lot of our 0:12:10.097 --> 0:12:12.737 a lot of our guys. And then if you take 0:12:12.737 --> 0:12:14.817 that to the VA and kind of go back and 0:12:14.857 --> 0:12:17.617 think about what I said about leaving the VA, I 0:12:17.657 --> 0:12:20.177 think part of what I want to say to the 0:12:20.257 --> 0:12:22.657 folks and part of the message is the VA is 0:12:22.737 --> 0:12:24.377 completely missing the boat. 0:12:24.897 --> 0:12:26.777 Can we they have hold on that? Chris for one second, 0:12:26.777 --> 0:12:28.537 I want to go back to it, or just yep, 0:12:28.737 --> 0:12:30.497 just a word from our sponsor will address this. I 0:12:30.497 --> 0:12:33.857 want to know, Okay, Chris has these findings, has been 0:12:33.897 --> 0:12:37.097 working with these operators. One would think in the civilian 0:12:37.137 --> 0:12:42.297 world where I come from, that VADD would want to 0:12:42.297 --> 0:12:44.977 do everything they can to address these issues and to 0:12:45.057 --> 0:12:47.297 put resources behind it. I have a feeling Chris is 0:12:47.297 --> 0:12:49.257 going to tell me it has not been that smooth. 0:12:49.537 --> 0:12:51.257 So we'll get to that here in just a second. 0:12:51.697 --> 0:12:53.977 But with everything going on these days, do you find 0:12:53.977 --> 0:12:56.617 yourself wondering about how to protect yourself and your family 0:12:56.657 --> 0:13:00.537 financially or otherwise. One form of financial protection is diversification 0:13:00.577 --> 0:13:04.217 into precious metals. Gold has often been used as an 0:13:04.257 --> 0:13:07.457 asset and it's also used as a hedge against inflation. 0:13:07.777 --> 0:13:10.497 It's a global reserve asset and countries are buying massive 0:13:10.497 --> 0:13:13.577 amounts of gold, and this is something you should consider 0:13:13.617 --> 0:13:15.817 for yourself. Stop thinking that things are just going to 0:13:15.897 --> 0:13:19.217 get better. Take action today. 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You try to bring the problem to 0:13:49.017 --> 0:13:53.297 the VA and to people in the government that should 0:13:53.297 --> 0:13:57.177 be helping our military and our warriors and what's been 0:13:57.217 --> 0:13:57.617 going on. 0:13:59.057 --> 0:14:02.017 Well, we'll talk about what the VA is for a moment. 0:14:02.297 --> 0:14:06.217 The VA is a large bureaucracy healthcare organization. They are 0:14:06.297 --> 0:14:11.657 set up to serve the vast majority of veterans, ninety 0:14:11.697 --> 0:14:15.937 five percent of whom, including those who deployed, were not 0:14:15.977 --> 0:14:20.137 necessarily combatants, and if they were combatants for the most part, 0:14:20.217 --> 0:14:21.977 they were not doing the same thing as the one 0:14:22.017 --> 0:14:25.177 to three percent of those who fought most of the 0:14:25.177 --> 0:14:32.657 war and saw the heaviest combat and saw the constant stressors, 0:14:32.697 --> 0:14:37.937 allostatic load, and the high operational tempo that they went through. 0:14:38.737 --> 0:14:41.297 What the VA does is the VA is very good 0:14:41.377 --> 0:14:44.977 at hitting the PTSD easy button. You served in a 0:14:45.097 --> 0:14:49.537 rock boomy PTSD, that's PTSD. We have so far over 0:14:49.777 --> 0:14:52.337 diagnosed PTSD. I mean, it's just it's a crime and 0:14:52.457 --> 0:14:55.897 shame to be honest. The problem that operators have is 0:14:55.897 --> 0:14:58.017 they don't really have PTSD. I mean, they may have 0:14:58.057 --> 0:15:00.657 some of the symptoms, but they don't have the fear reactivity. 0:15:01.137 --> 0:15:02.977 They don't have they don't show the same type of 0:15:03.017 --> 0:15:07.337 avoidance of triggers and cues that you see with you know, 0:15:07.417 --> 0:15:12.857 typical PTSD. What operators do have is massive traumatic brain injuries. 0:15:13.697 --> 0:15:18.777 They have low testosterone and other hormonal dysregulation. They have 0:15:19.417 --> 0:15:23.217 sleep dysregulation and insomnia. But they also many of them, 0:15:23.257 --> 0:15:26.177 maybe eighty ninety percent of the guys that I've worked with, 0:15:26.217 --> 0:15:29.737 have sleep apnea. Even when they're in their late thirties 0:15:29.817 --> 0:15:34.937 early forties, they're developing sleep apnea. So put that together 0:15:35.017 --> 0:15:38.617 with the chronic pain, the cognitive problems, and the headaches 0:15:38.657 --> 0:15:42.257 that go with TBI, many of them have the other 0:15:42.417 --> 0:15:45.937 some of the other classic symptoms of TBI, low poor balance, 0:15:47.377 --> 0:15:50.857 blurry vision, they all pretty much all have ringing in 0:15:50.897 --> 0:15:56.377 their ears and other perceptual system impairments vision, hearing, balance. 0:15:57.577 --> 0:16:00.857 Think about how that ripples out to their family, how 0:16:00.857 --> 0:16:04.497 that ripples out to their community, their work, and then 0:16:04.537 --> 0:16:07.817 there's nobody that understands them. They go to see a 0:16:07.817 --> 0:16:10.057 doctor and a doctor will say, oh, I've never seen 0:16:10.217 --> 0:16:11.657 anything like this. I don't know what to tell you. 0:16:12.817 --> 0:16:15.177 And in modern medicine, we have the problem of the 0:16:15.217 --> 0:16:18.537 fragmentation of care. So a veteran goes to the VA 0:16:18.657 --> 0:16:20.937 or any healthcare system, they're going to see one dock 0:16:21.057 --> 0:16:25.217 for their sleep, another doc for pain, another if they're lucky, 0:16:25.297 --> 0:16:28.777 another doc for urology if they're lucky. But these docks 0:16:28.857 --> 0:16:31.897 rarely talk to each other, so they're not They're just 0:16:31.937 --> 0:16:36.017 not getting what they need. My conversations with people who 0:16:36.057 --> 0:16:40.097 work for VA, work for SOCOM, work for DoD, and 0:16:40.137 --> 0:16:42.497 I want to be clear, I'm not affiliated with any 0:16:42.537 --> 0:16:45.497 of these organizations. I'm a complete outsider. There's no reason 0:16:45.497 --> 0:16:48.817 they should listen to me necessarily. But what I hear 0:16:48.857 --> 0:16:51.257 over and over again is well, we already got programs 0:16:51.257 --> 0:16:56.577 for everything. They will say, we can't build special programs 0:16:56.657 --> 0:17:00.777 for special operations because that's not social justice. And I've 0:17:00.817 --> 0:17:04.257 heard this argument over and over again, it's not socially 0:17:04.497 --> 0:17:08.257 just to build special programs for operators. In my response 0:17:08.297 --> 0:17:11.697 to that, and I'll I'll try not to drop any 0:17:12.297 --> 0:17:17.457 f bombs here is in medicine, we need to treat 0:17:17.817 --> 0:17:20.497 the injuries that people have. So if you have a 0:17:20.497 --> 0:17:24.257 group of people with unique injuries, they need unique care. 0:17:24.977 --> 0:17:31.137 They need care that is specifically contextually tailored for their needs. 0:17:31.977 --> 0:17:34.657 And just to give an example of one thing that 0:17:34.697 --> 0:17:37.537 I've heard over and over again, and this is a 0:17:37.577 --> 0:17:41.537 story that I've heard so many times that you know, 0:17:41.777 --> 0:17:45.417 I certainly believe it is. An operator goes into the VA, 0:17:45.457 --> 0:17:49.257 they're referred to mental health, They meet their social worker 0:17:49.377 --> 0:17:52.017 or their psychologist or what whoever their therapist is for 0:17:52.097 --> 0:17:55.337 the first time, and they start talking and their therapist 0:17:55.417 --> 0:17:58.057 has never heard the kinds of things that they're now 0:17:58.097 --> 0:18:02.417 hearing for the first time, and frequently they break out 0:18:02.537 --> 0:18:05.497 crying and sobbing. And so I've heard this many times, 0:18:05.537 --> 0:18:09.057 and operators tell me, Yeah, I had one appointment ten 0:18:09.097 --> 0:18:12.417 minutes in. My therap is just sobbing into her hands 0:18:12.497 --> 0:18:15.137 and into tissues, and I just like, I'm sorry, I 0:18:15.177 --> 0:18:17.377 get up and I walk out because what else am 0:18:17.417 --> 0:18:17.897 I going to do? 0:18:21.337 --> 0:18:27.737 Yeah? Wow? So, Chris, I want to get to what 0:18:27.897 --> 0:18:30.977 can be done to so you've identified this, people are 0:18:30.977 --> 0:18:32.377 pushing back on it. I want to get to the 0:18:32.417 --> 0:18:35.017 treatment here next. And also why you wrote the book 0:18:35.057 --> 0:18:37.577 Operator Syndrome, which for those who are watching and YouTube 0:18:37.577 --> 0:18:40.377 can see there's a copy of the book behind Chris's head. 0:18:40.937 --> 0:18:43.537 But first off, from our sponsor American Financing. When I 0:18:43.537 --> 0:18:45.417 bought a home last year, it was very straightforward. Who 0:18:45.417 --> 0:18:47.657 am I going to get my mortgage from? American Financing. 0:18:47.737 --> 0:18:49.897 That's who I went with because that's who I trust, 0:18:49.897 --> 0:18:52.337 That's who I've had a relationship with for years. 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Chris, how do we treat operator syndrome? 0:19:49.377 --> 0:19:52.337 Yes, that's the important question here, and the good news 0:19:52.417 --> 0:19:55.457 is we have treatments, we have ways to provide care. 0:19:56.697 --> 0:19:59.337 I would start with a general principles. You need to 0:19:59.457 --> 0:20:03.177 have some contextualization of the care. It's best if you 0:20:03.177 --> 0:20:05.857 have providers who have talked to operators and know a 0:20:05.857 --> 0:20:08.177 little bit about what an operator has been doing, what 0:20:08.217 --> 0:20:10.937 that means from a career perspective, but as well as 0:20:10.977 --> 0:20:15.457 also an injury perspective. I just go through some of 0:20:15.457 --> 0:20:17.657 the treatments and then I'll talk about kind of how 0:20:17.657 --> 0:20:19.657 we can put them together and some of the foundations 0:20:19.657 --> 0:20:23.977 that are just doing phenomenal work out there. First off, 0:20:24.257 --> 0:20:29.017 you know the basics. Yes, it's worth considering psychotherapy. Many 0:20:29.057 --> 0:20:33.617 guys might benefit from psychiatric medications such as anti depressants. 0:20:34.097 --> 0:20:35.657 What we don't want to do is load them up 0:20:35.657 --> 0:20:39.097 on three or four or five psychiatric medications. Which is 0:20:39.137 --> 0:20:42.577 what I commonly see, and that's a common complaint about 0:20:42.697 --> 0:20:47.217 when guys have tried the VA. But there's treatments that 0:20:47.257 --> 0:20:52.297 the VA doesn't typically provide, and but that they're out there. 0:20:52.337 --> 0:20:55.457 So say gang block therapy, that's one of the things 0:20:55.457 --> 0:20:58.537 I start with. Go get a steal gangly block therapy. 0:20:58.577 --> 0:21:02.417 It's a safe, one time medical procedure. We've been using 0:21:02.417 --> 0:21:05.857 it in medicine for over one hundred years. It's provided 0:21:05.937 --> 0:21:09.377 not by mental health professionals, but by psychiatry and neurology. 0:21:10.217 --> 0:21:16.177 It was a treatment for chronic headaches and certain types 0:21:16.177 --> 0:21:19.377 of headaches. But about ten fifteen years ago, a couple 0:21:19.417 --> 0:21:23.217 of neurologists at Fort Bragg working with soldiers noticed that 0:21:23.257 --> 0:21:27.017 when they treated a soldiers headache that their anxiety went 0:21:27.097 --> 0:21:30.937 down and they started to sleep better immediately, like that 0:21:31.137 --> 0:21:34.217 night or the next day. And so since then Sean 0:21:34.297 --> 0:21:37.937 mulvaney Jim Lynch have done some have done a number 0:21:37.937 --> 0:21:42.097 of randomized clinical control medical trials. Others have two and 0:21:42.217 --> 0:21:45.897 shown that it's a very effective treatment for reducing the 0:21:45.937 --> 0:21:50.257 anxiety and insomnia that goes along with PTSD, but general 0:21:50.297 --> 0:21:53.817 anxiety you know, as a rule, So this is a 0:21:53.857 --> 0:21:56.457 great place to start because it just brings the volume 0:21:56.497 --> 0:22:00.617 of that anxiety down. Now that isn't necessarily going to 0:22:00.737 --> 0:22:04.417 last forever. It's a treatment that involves injecting a little 0:22:04.457 --> 0:22:07.697 bit of lytocane or novacane into the stelic ganglian nerve. 0:22:08.497 --> 0:22:11.537 This can be accessed on the side of the neck. 0:22:12.017 --> 0:22:14.937 It goes down our central nervous system. It's the sympathetic 0:22:14.937 --> 0:22:17.777 nervous system, the fight or flight. So we're just we're 0:22:17.777 --> 0:22:21.097 just dialing it down. That's what the treatment does. This 0:22:21.257 --> 0:22:24.577 benefit lasts for anywhere from two months to over a year. 0:22:24.977 --> 0:22:27.817 Typically a lot of guys never even notice it when 0:22:27.817 --> 0:22:30.377 it wears off because they're doing other things that are 0:22:30.417 --> 0:22:35.377 really helpful. Ketamine infusion is a four to eight sessions 0:22:35.377 --> 0:22:40.097 of ketamine infusions are are very powerful treatment, and I 0:22:40.297 --> 0:22:43.497 and others have a hypothesis that combining the stelate and 0:22:43.537 --> 0:22:46.257 the ketamine in the same week or the same month, 0:22:47.017 --> 0:22:50.577 that they're symbiotic with each other. And we think they 0:22:50.617 --> 0:22:53.457 help not just with the anxiety and the depression and 0:22:53.577 --> 0:22:56.617 the know the mood and cognitive functioning, but that they 0:22:56.697 --> 0:23:00.977 help regenerate. They help stimulate nerve regeneration in the brain, 0:23:01.137 --> 0:23:05.777 so they're actually healing the brain. We are using very 0:23:05.817 --> 0:23:09.937 effectively a lot of regenerative medicine techniques. Now this is 0:23:10.177 --> 0:23:12.777 my thing, so I probably won't say too much about it, 0:23:12.817 --> 0:23:16.657 but the soldiers that we refer to some of these 0:23:16.697 --> 0:23:22.297 regenerative medicine clinics where they they use stem cells and 0:23:22.337 --> 0:23:26.497 exomes and peptides really reduce the chronic joint pain, which 0:23:26.537 --> 0:23:29.337 is a game changer. If you're living with chronic chronic 0:23:29.417 --> 0:23:32.177 joint pain all the time at a high level, to 0:23:32.257 --> 0:23:36.337 have that lifted off of you really profoundly changes your 0:23:36.337 --> 0:23:36.977 life for the better. 0:23:37.017 --> 0:23:40.257 And what are some have to sorry, because what are 0:23:40.297 --> 0:23:42.577 some of the entities that are working on this problem 0:23:42.617 --> 0:23:46.537 and that are trying to help operators who face the syndrome? 0:23:47.617 --> 0:23:51.457 Right? So I'm the one I work most closely with 0:23:51.577 --> 0:23:55.217 is the Seal Future Foundation. They have a program where 0:23:55.257 --> 0:23:58.137 any seal who's not no longer active duty can call 0:23:58.617 --> 0:24:01.457