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Visit us dairy dot COM's Last Sustainability 18 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: to learn more. 19 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 2: We're just days away from our twenty twenty four I 20 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 2: Heart Radio Music Festival, preting it by Capital Wa. 21 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 3: The biggest headliners in live music will be taking over 22 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 3: to Mobile Arena Las. 23 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 4: Vegas lost some special surprises in moments you are not 24 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 4: going to want to miss. Stream only on Hulu iHeartRadio 25 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 4: Music Festival. 26 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 5: And listen on iHeartRadio the most anticipated live music events 27 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 5: of the. 28 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 3: Year this Friday and Saturday, starting at ten thirty pm Eastern, 29 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 3: seven thirty Pacific. 30 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 6: Hey, Daniel, I'm worried about how long I'm going to live? 31 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:43,039 Speaker 1: Oh man, aren't we all these dudes? 32 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 6: I know? But I mean, like down to the particle level, Like, 33 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 6: are my Jorge electrons going to be around forever? 34 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: Well, we actually have good news there. We do think 35 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: that electrons can live forever. All right, that's cool. What 36 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: about my protons? M I got some tough news there. 37 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 6: It don't last very long. 38 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: Currently we think protons live for only a trillion trillion 39 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:06,559 Speaker 1: trillion years. 40 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 6: Well that's good. I guess even my protons are procrastinators. 41 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: They are professional protonic procrastinators. 42 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 6: I am morehand a cartoonist and the creator of PhD comics. 43 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist, but I might 44 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: one day decay into something else. 45 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 6: Oh, into a lighter Daniel or a lower energy state. 46 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, I seem to be violating the laws of physics 47 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: and decaying into a heavier. 48 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 6: Daniel as to all humans. 49 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: Unfortunately that seems to be the direction. 50 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 6: But welcome to our podcast Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, 51 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 6: a production of iHeartRadio. 52 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: In which we take the universe and crack it in 53 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: half and pour all those little explaineons into your brain. 54 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 1: We take you on a tour of all the amazing, 55 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: the massive, the enormous, the crazy, and all the tiny, mysterious, 56 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: weird quantum stuff of the universe and explain it all 57 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: to you. 58 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 6: That's right, so it lives in your head, possibly forever. 59 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 6: Hopefully you won't forget us. We'll always be there in. 60 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: Your brain, because we all know that once you've understood 61 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: something in physics, you know it forever. I have never 62 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: forgotten a single thing I've ever learned. 63 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 6: Oh really, it's hard to unlearn. 64 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: Huh No, that's exactly the opposite of true. I'm the 65 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: kind of person that can learn something fairly quickly and 66 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: then forget it fairly quickly. 67 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 6: I guess, hmmm, does the information decay in your brain? 68 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 6: Or it dissipates, or I. 69 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: Think it just gets replaced by all the stuff on 70 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: Twitter that I scroll through and shows it back out 71 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: the other side of my brain pushes it out the 72 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: other ear. That's right, information understanding decay. 73 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 6: Yeah, we like to talk about science and the cosmos 74 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 6: and the universe and everything in between, and including all 75 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 6: the things that are out there and all the things 76 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 6: that are not yet out there and all the things 77 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 6: that will not be out there in the future. 78 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: That's right because everything that you wonder about the universe 79 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: are the same things that scientists wonder about the universe. 80 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: Where did it come from, how did it get here? 81 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: How long will it last? And how long will you last? 82 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 6: Yeah, so big question is how long do particles stay around? 83 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 6: Do they live forever or at some point are they 84 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 6: not around? 85 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: That's right because particles are these weird, fleeting quantum objects, 86 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: and I don't always obey the same rules that you 87 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: and I obey that we're familiar with that makes sense 88 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 1: to us, and yet we are made out of them. 89 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 1: Everything in the universe is made out of particles. So 90 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: it's essential that we understand how they work and the 91 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: rules under which they operate. Because they might very well 92 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: determine our future, even if you have to wait a trillion, 93 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: trillion trillion years to find out. 94 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 6: Yeah, because we know that, you know, as humans, we 95 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 6: don't live forever, at least not yet. 96 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: I don't know. I've never died so far. 97 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 6: How about you, I think, probabilistically speaking, you are unlikely 98 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 6: to be around for a few hundred years. Yeah, but 99 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 6: it's mostly because the arrangement of our particles and our 100 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 6: atoms at some point doesn't work, and it dissipates, and 101 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 6: our particles go back into the soil and back into dust, 102 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 6: And so I think an interesting question is like how 103 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,359 Speaker 6: long do your particles last? That's right, Like, there are 104 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 6: the particles that you're made out of right now? Are 105 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 6: they going to be there at the end of the universe? 106 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: That's right? Even if that arrangement that makes you isn't 107 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: around anymore. With that little bit of your fingernail and 108 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 1: that tip of your nose, will it be around inside 109 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: some star and get fused into a piece of gold 110 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 1: someday and get blown out into supernova and have trillions 111 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: and trillions more cycles, or will it only last a 112 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: few more years and decay into something totally unrecognizable. 113 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 6: Right, because I guess particles come from nothing, right, Like 114 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 6: you know, at some point there weren't any particles and 115 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 6: then they suddenly sort of pop down. And we know 116 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 6: that particles pop into existence all the time in the vacuum. 117 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 6: And so but the question is, once you form a particle, 118 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 6: does it stay around forever as a particle or or 119 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 6: do things happen to it to make it disappear. 120 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, particles certainly were formed in the very early universe. 121 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: We had this hot, dense state, all this energy stored 122 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: in the fields, and then as the universe cooled, that 123 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: energy sort of isolated into these discrete packets that we 124 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 1: now call particles. And we'd like to play this mental 125 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: game as particle physicists say, you had just one particle 126 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 1: in the universe, what would it do? Would it sit 127 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: there forever or would it eventually spontaneously break into lighter particles? 128 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: And so that's the game we played with electrons, and 129 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,799 Speaker 1: we think a single universe filled with just one electron 130 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: would stay that way forever. But the open question is 131 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: that also true for protons. 132 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 6: So to the on the podcast will be asking the 133 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 6: question do protons live forever? 134 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: And if so, how do they plan for their retirements? 135 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 6: Right? Do they have professional protonic retirement accountant? 136 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: I hope they've been proactive in saving. 137 00:06:57,880 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 6: Yeah, I hope that their fee is paraded. 138 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: If you live forever, you would have like an infinite 139 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: number of grandchildren, which I suppose could support you in 140 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: your old old age. 141 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 6: Oh, there you go, using they still like you after 142 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 6: an infinite number of years. 143 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: Great great, great great great Grandpap, die already and give 144 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: us all your stuff. 145 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 6: No, you'd have to go great great for infinity. Nobody 146 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 6: wants to call you. 147 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: I ran out of time there. 148 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 6: Yeah, all right, So electrons live forever. We know that. 149 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 6: That's like fact number one. H they never what does 150 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 6: that mean? They never decay or they never like spontaneously disappear. 151 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: It's an important distinction. Like an electron, you can destroy it. 152 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: You throw an electron against a positron, you can turn 153 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: that energy into something else. You can turn it into 154 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: a photon. Right, that kind of stuff happens. 155 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 6: But so you can kill an electron, yes, but they 156 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 6: just don't die on the. 157 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: End, that's right. And you know in some superhero movies 158 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: that is the definition of immortal, Like elves or in 159 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: fantasy novels, are often immortal but can be killed in battle, 160 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: which always confused me. But electron are sort of like elves. 161 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: They will sit around forever. Like you put an electron 162 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: in its own universe, it will just sit there forever, 163 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: you know, learning how to sing ballad essentially, but never 164 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: turning into anything. 165 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 6: Else I see, or not even spontaneously. Like you know, 166 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 6: some particles just if they're sitting around, they can split 167 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 6: into other particles. 168 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: Right, that's right, Almost every particle decays. It's only the 169 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: ones that are the lightest ones it can't turn into 170 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: anything else, that are sort of stuck. Those are the 171 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: ones that we call stables. So an electron is a 172 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: stable particle. A single electron universe will stay a single 173 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: electron universe basically forever. 174 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 6: Like it can't break down into something else spontaneously, or 175 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 6: it probably won't. 176 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,839 Speaker 1: No, if it could, it will eventually. So this is 177 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: a statement about like not a statement about probability, but 178 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: about possibility. If an electron is really alone in the universe, 179 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: if there's not not even any like weird quantum positrons 180 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,319 Speaker 1: popping out of the vacuum to annihilate it, it will 181 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: sit there forever. It has zero chance of decaying into 182 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: anything else, because what could it decay into. There is 183 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: no particle lighter than the electron that the electron can 184 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: turn into. That follows all the rules, and we'll dig 185 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 1: into all of that. 186 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 6: Okay, So electrons are like elves, probably elron or electron. 187 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 6: What would be his elf name or her elf name? Elvin, 188 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 6: elvin name sorry, Elfish, Elfish or elvin? 189 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: Oh man, I'm way on my depth here. 190 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 6: So we're made out of electrons and also protons. And 191 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 6: so the question is do protons live forever? 192 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: That's right, and this is one of the deepest open 193 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: questions in modern physics. Does a proton sitting in the 194 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: universe by itself eventually turn into something else? Or will 195 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: it last forever? 196 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 6: So that's an awesome question. And so, as usual, Daniel 197 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 6: went out there and asked people on the internet if 198 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 6: they thought protons lived forever. So, as usual, before you 199 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 6: hear these answers, think about it for a second. Do 200 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 6: you think protons live forever? Here's what people had to say. 201 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:57,079 Speaker 7: I don't really understand what living forever means for protons, 202 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:02,439 Speaker 7: but I do understand that they are converted into different forms, 203 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,559 Speaker 7: saying a beta plust k where the proton gets converted 204 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 7: into a neutron and a positron is released. 205 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 8: I believe protons, if kind of like left alone, just 206 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 8: by themselves, they probably could live till the end of 207 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 8: the eternity, till the end of the universe, unless some 208 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 8: external effects can either destroy them or change them, like 209 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 8: maybe you know fusion or fission. Protons can change from 210 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 8: one to another, but they are still protons. 211 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 1: I do not believe they live forever. 212 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 9: I know electrons live forever because you guys covered that 213 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 9: in a previous podcast. 214 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: But I believe protons can be broken down. 215 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 9: Obviously you guys do it cervened by smashing them and 216 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:49,479 Speaker 9: creating new particles. 217 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 10: Interenitally, I would say that we know that like a 218 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 10: proton is made up of up quarks or one down quarks. 219 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 10: I think so that I would think that a proto 220 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 10: may not live forever in a form of a proto. 221 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: I have no idea about this. 222 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 6: I would say that they probably do not live forever, 223 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 6: because it doesn't make sense that they would not decay 224 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 6: at some point. 225 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 11: I would have to assume that protons don't live forever, 226 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 11: because before the Big Bang, we think the universe was 227 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 11: a big, hot, dense ball of energy, and so I 228 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:26,319 Speaker 11: would have to guess that the universe could return to. 229 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 1: Such a state. I guess they're decaying all the time, 230 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: and if their next holiday destination is Geneva, then they 231 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: really have a short time left. 232 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 6: I don't think so, all right, I feel like there's 233 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 6: a lot of confidence here in these answers. People are 234 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,839 Speaker 6: like no, and some people are like yes, and some 235 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 6: people are like, depends on what you mean, living forever? 236 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, exactly. We got the legalistic answers also, But 237 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: it's fair because it's a bit of a vague question, 238 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: Like it's possible, obviously to destroy a proton. We do 239 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: it every twenty five nanoseconds the Large Hadron Collider by 240 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: smashing them together. Really, the deep physics question is if 241 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: you leave a proton alone, will it decay into something else? 242 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: Can you turn it into something else? And that has 243 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 1: deep implications for our understanding of the very beginning of 244 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:13,959 Speaker 1: the universe, why are universe is made out of matter? 245 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: And also for like our understanding of the fundamental theory 246 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,439 Speaker 1: of everything, how it all links together. It turns out, 247 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: proton decay is really little lynchpin for a lot of 248 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: big questions. 249 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 6: Wow, that's a lot of stuff to hang on one 250 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 6: simple question. 251 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 1: It's amazing, And it turns out proton decay is really 252 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: really frustrating for particle theorists. 253 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 6: All right, so it seems like we can kill protons, 254 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 6: but the question is do they spontaneously die at some 255 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 6: point or break down or do if you have a proton, 256 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,559 Speaker 6: does it sit around forever? So maybe, Daniel, let's step 257 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 6: through it one thing at a time. First of all, 258 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 6: let's talk about particles dying in the first place, or 259 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 6: I guess you use the term decay. 260 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,199 Speaker 1: That's right. We prefer the term decay. Or you have 261 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 1: transformed into something else, something lighter and more fhemaral. We 262 00:12:58,240 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: don't like to talk about them dying. 263 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 6: We call it passing, not dying. 264 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: You're graduating to the next phase of your particle existence. 265 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 1: You're leveling up. But yes, in general, particles do like 266 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: to decay, and that's just a function of time moving 267 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 1: forward and entropy. You know, the same way that you 268 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: can't have a bunch of gas particles in the corner 269 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: of a box and having stayed there, they like to 270 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: spread out because energy likes to diffuse. That increases entropy 271 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: and disorder in the universe. You can't have that much 272 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: energy isolated in a quantum field, so that a particle 273 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 1: is in a really heavy state, they like to decay 274 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 1: down to the lowest state. They like to spread that 275 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: energy out. They give off a photon, or they eject 276 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 1: another particle, They turn into multiple particles, and they just 277 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: essentially step down the ladder as far as they right. 278 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 6: And again, we're not talking about like particles disassembling, you know, 279 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 6: like if I build a lego in my house, you know, 280 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 6: with my kids, it's not gonna last very long. It's 281 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 6: kind of eventually get dissembled. We're talking really about like 282 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 6: quantum transformation, like a particle literally like transforms into other things. 283 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's take an example of the muon. The muon 284 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 1: is a heavy version of the electron, and the muon 285 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: turns into an electron and then a couple of neutrinos 286 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: to satisfy some conservation laws. But the muon doesn't last 287 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: very long at all, lasts for microseconds and it just 288 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: turns into the electron. And as you said, it's not 289 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: like the muon is just the electron with a couple 290 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: of neutrinos bound together, and then it breaks apart and 291 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: those little internal pieces fly out. This really is like alchemy, 292 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: Like the muon is an excited state of the muon 293 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: field and then it transforms into an excited state of 294 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: the electron field and two neutrino fields. And so that's 295 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: our current understanding of how this muon decay happens. You 296 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: have isolated heavy particle turns into three lighter particles, right, 297 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: it's not a rearrangement, right. 298 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 6: And it just does it spontaneously, like it's just sitting there. 299 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 6: A muon is just sitting there and then suddenly pop, 300 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 6: it just turns into an electron and two neutrinos. 301 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's one of the real quantum illnesses in our universe, 302 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 1: Like it has a probability at any moment to decay. 303 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: When an individual muon actually decays is determined by some 304 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: random quantum toss of the dice. If you have like 305 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: a thousand muons in a bottle, then half of them 306 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: will decay after a certain time, then another half after 307 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: another certain time, etc. On average. But each individual one 308 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: is determined by a random toss of the dice. It's 309 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: just like radioactive decay of a nucleus, which is exactly 310 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: the same kind of process. I see. 311 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 6: It's not that it's delicate and like you know, you're 312 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 6: stacking blocks and then suddenly when passes by or you 313 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 6: push a little bit and it topples over. It's literally like, 314 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 6: you know, in its fabric of its existence, to just 315 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 6: spontaneously turn into something else. 316 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 9: Yeah. 317 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: The picture I have in my head is that it's 318 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: like you know, flipping a coin or rolling a die 319 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: every microsecond, and if it gets the right answer, boom, 320 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: it decays, and if it doesn't, it sticks around it 321 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: anon for a while. And so it's just like keeps 322 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: rolling that die or picking a random number until it 323 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: gets the right one, and then it decides, all right, 324 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: now it's time for me to become an electron and 325 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: a couple of neutrinos. 326 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 6: Right, But you're telling me that it needs to have 327 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 6: like a path for to decay, Like it has to have, 328 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 6: you know, kind of a solution for its decay. 329 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. You can't just turn into anything, right, A muan 330 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: can't just like say hey, I'm going to become a photon. Cool, 331 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: that sounds like fun. The universe has rules, and these 332 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: rules determine what particles can decay into other particles. But 333 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: the important thing to understand about these rules is that 334 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: mostly we have no idea where they come from. They're 335 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: just like our description. It's like you watch a bunch 336 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: of particles, you see what happens. You try to notice patterns, 337 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: and you codify those patterns into rules. That doesn't mean 338 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: you know why that rule exists. So when we say, like, 339 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: you know, charge is conserved, doesn't mean we know why 340 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: it's conserved. It just means that we've never seen this 341 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: rule broken, so we think it's a fundamental rule of 342 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: the universe. And so that's one of them. Right, Why 343 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: can't just turn into a photon? Well, a muon has 344 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,719 Speaker 1: electric charge and a photon doesn't, So to do that 345 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: would break that rule of conserving electric charge. 346 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 6: Right, it has to be a decay that makes sense 347 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 6: to the universe. Okay, it's not like a total magic 348 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 6: like an elf can just turn into a dwarf. 349 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:17,120 Speaker 1: That's right. You have to like fill out a big 350 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: application and submit it to the universe's lawyers and they 351 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: have to check all the boxes and they say, all right, approved, 352 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: it's more like getting a bank loan than magically transforming. 353 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 6: All right, And if there's nothing for you to decay into, 354 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 6: like according to the laws of the universe, then you 355 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 6: can't decay. You're like stuck. 356 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: That's right. And that's a situation with the electron. There's 357 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: nothing lighter than the electron. Like the muon can decay 358 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: into electron. Because the muon is heavier than the electron, 359 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: it can go down, but to go up it is 360 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: not spontaneous decay. The electron can't decay up into the muon. 361 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: There's nothing for it to go down too. It's the 362 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: lightest thing on its ladder. Now, there are other lower 363 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 1: mass particles, like a photon, for example, but again, an 364 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,360 Speaker 1: electron can't get to be a photon because that would 365 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 1: violate the conservation of electric charge. 366 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 6: Okay, so then there are rules. And if there's no 367 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 6: step down for you to go down too, then you're stuck. 368 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: That's right. And you know, there's another particle that's very 369 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,880 Speaker 1: similar to the proton. It's the neutron, and the neutron 370 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 1: is almost the same as a proton. It's a slightly 371 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: different arrangement of quarks. Like the proton is made out 372 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: of these smaller particles called quarks, and the proton is 373 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: two ups and a down. The neutron is two downs 374 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,719 Speaker 1: and an up. Now, the neutron is slightly heavier than 375 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,640 Speaker 1: the proton, a tiny bit more mass, so the neutron 376 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: can turn into a proton, no problem. And it also 377 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: shoots off an electron to conserve electric charge. So that happens. 378 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: And if you have like a neutron sitting around and 379 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: on average, after about nine hundred seconds, it will turn 380 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 1: into a proton. But because the proton is lighter than 381 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 1: the neutron, there's nowhere for the proton to go. Because 382 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 1: there's this weird rule we've observed that says you have 383 00:18:56,560 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: to keep constant the number of quark triplets, the number 384 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,880 Speaker 1: of particles made out of three quarks cannot change, all. 385 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 6: Right, And there's kind of a rule that says that 386 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 6: if when you decay down into something, you need like 387 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 6: a force to help you do it. 388 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: That's right. All these decays happen through some force, right, 389 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 1: Like when the muon decays then through the electron, it 390 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: uses the weak force. 391 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 6: What does that mean, Like, like the weak force has 392 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 6: to be involved or you actually need to like inject 393 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:24,159 Speaker 6: some weak force into it. 394 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,679 Speaker 1: It means that the weak force is involved. What actually 395 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: happens when it decays is that the muon turns into 396 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: a muon neutrino and a w boson, and that w 397 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: boson then turns into an electron and a second neutrino. 398 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 1: So it like mediates the decay. It's like every time 399 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,159 Speaker 1: you feel a force, the wall is pushing back on you, 400 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: for example. Really that's happening by the exchange of energy 401 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: from photons and so all interactions. Every time particles talk 402 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: to each other, it happens through one of the forces. 403 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 6: Okay, so then when you decay, you need this force 404 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,919 Speaker 6: to kind of like pass the energy around between the 405 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 6: resulting bits. 406 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And so you know. Another example is a 407 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: particle called the pion. Pion is two quarks, a quark 408 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 1: and an antiquark, and this thing can turn into two photons, 409 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: and that happens via electromagnetism. Essentially, the quark and the 410 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,360 Speaker 1: anti cork and decide to annihilate each other and turn 411 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: into these two photons. And so that there's something for 412 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: it to turn into doesn't break any of the rules, 413 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: and there's a force to make it happen. 414 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 6: All right, So we know that particles can decay if 415 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 6: there's something you know, less energetic that they can decay into, 416 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 6: and if you follow the rules of the universe. So 417 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 6: now the question is do protons decay? So mostly you 418 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 6: and I are in how to protons and electrons and neutrons, 419 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 6: and so the question is do protons decay? So let's 420 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 6: get into that. But first let's take a quick break. 421 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: With big wireless providers, what you see is never what 422 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: you get. Somewhere between the store and your first month's bill, 423 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: the price you thought you were paying magically skyrockets. 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That's probably in the next Villa Tech movie. 477 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 6: There you go, Yeah, yeah, give a rock band in 478 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:54,360 Speaker 6: your garage with other physicists. 479 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 1: No, definitely not, and if I did, I would not 480 00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: admit it here on the podcast. 481 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 6: You do it under an alias another particle name. 482 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 1: That's right, exactly. The rock and electrons, all. 483 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,199 Speaker 6: Right, So we're all made out of electrons, protons and neutrons, 484 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 6: and so the question is do protons that get because 485 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 6: we know electrons cannot decay spontaneously into something else, but 486 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 6: do protons decay? So the protons are different than electrons 487 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 6: because protons are made out of other particles. 488 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: That's right. Protons are made out of quarks. And so 489 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: you take a proton, you look inside it, deep inside it, 490 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,159 Speaker 1: and you find three particles. You find two up quarks 491 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,640 Speaker 1: and a down quark, and that means that like, it's 492 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: made out of these three particles. It's just an arrangement 493 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: of those particles. Right. But we have this rule in 494 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: the universe that we don't understand, and this rule says 495 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 1: that there's a fixed number of these quark triplets. We 496 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: call this a baryon. It's just three quarks together, and 497 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 1: you can make three quarks together and lost of different arrangements. 498 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 1: And for some reason, every time you have an interaction, 499 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,479 Speaker 1: the number of baryons doesn't change. 500 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 6: What do you mean like interactions, but quarks always happens 501 00:24:59,320 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 6: in three. 502 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: But if you do have a triplet of quarks involved, 503 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 1: then you'll have the same number of triplets when you're done. So, 504 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 1: for example, a neutron decays to a proton. You started 505 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: with one triplet the neutron, which is an up down down, 506 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: and you ended up with one triplet the proton up 507 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: up down. Like you can't go from one baryon to 508 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: zero baryons or from ten baryons to eight baryons. You 509 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: have to have the same number of baryons when you 510 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: start and when you finish, which is not something we 511 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 1: understand at all. 512 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 6: So it's not related to threes, like if I start 513 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 6: with two, I have to end up with two as well. 514 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 1: No, there's no conservation on quark pairs. Cork triplets have 515 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: this special property. If you have a quark triplet, you 516 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,679 Speaker 1: have to end up with a quark triplet, And so 517 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,400 Speaker 1: for example, when we smash protons together at the large 518 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: hadron collider, two protons come in. We destroy those two protons. 519 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: We always make at least two baryons that come out. 520 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 6: I see, okay, So then neutrons, which we're also made 521 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 6: out of. Those don't live forever. You're saying, Like a neutron, 522 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 6: if you just leave it alone in the universe, it's 523 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 6: gonna not be a neutron for long. 524 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 1: That's right. It only lasts about eight hundred and eighty 525 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: seconds on its own. Now, the neutrons in your body 526 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 1: are much more stable because the environment in your body 527 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: keeps them sort of stuck together. But if you had 528 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 1: a neutron by itself in the universe, after about eight 529 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: hundred and eighty seconds, it would turn into a proton 530 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,479 Speaker 1: and an electron. And you notice that keeps the number 531 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 1: of baryons the number of quark triplets constant, because the 532 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 1: neutron is one and the proton is one. 533 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,199 Speaker 6: Oh, I see all right. So a neutron by itself 534 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 6: can decay, but it turns into a proton. 535 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: Basically, it turns into a proton plus an electron to 536 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: carry off the other half of the electric charge to 537 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: follow that one rule. 538 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 6: And so what happens there for the neutron, like the 539 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 6: quarks inside just kind of flip and then it becomes 540 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 6: something else. 541 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the down quarks becomes an upquark, and 542 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 1: it gives off a w boson, which is where you 543 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: get the electron and actually a little neutrino, which is 544 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: how neutrinos were discovered. But these arrangements of quarks, like 545 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: one arrangement of quarks an up down down that gives 546 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: you a neutron, a different set of quarks up up, 547 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: down that gives you a proton. The proton is the 548 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 1: lowest mass arrangement of quarks, Like, there's no way to 549 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: make an arrangement of quarks that has a lower mass 550 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: in the proton. So it's sort of like lightest thing 551 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 1: on the ladder of baryons. 552 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,199 Speaker 6: But for quark triplet, Yes, for quark trip you can 553 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 6: make something out of two quarks. 554 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: You can make something out of two quarks like a 555 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,919 Speaker 1: pion as lower mass. But the quark triplet ladder, for 556 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: some reason, it's on its own. It's like a special 557 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: thing in the universe, and if you're on that ladder, 558 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 1: you have to stay on that ladder, and the proton 559 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: is the bottom rung of that ladder. There's no lighter 560 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: arrangement of three quarks than the proton. So that's why 561 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 1: the proton seems to be stuck unless you can somehow 562 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:39,120 Speaker 1: jump off this ladder. 563 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 6: Oh, I see, it's like once you have three quarks, 564 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 6: you're stead of stuck having three. 565 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,400 Speaker 1: Quarks exactly, you can do something, make a different arrangement 566 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: of three quarks. You can move up or down the 567 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,919 Speaker 1: ladder by injecting energy or waiting for it to decay, 568 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: but you have to have something on the ladder. Once 569 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: you have something on the ladder. 570 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 6: But couldn't I like, you know, split up that triplet. 571 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 6: Can't three quarts and make up a proton, which is 572 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 6: like you know, when they decide to go their separate ways, 573 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:03,919 Speaker 6: then you destroy the proton. 574 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: Basically, you can do that if you create a larger system, right, 575 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: so you like involve it in some other bonds and 576 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 1: some other configurations, then you can destroy a proton, for example. 577 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: But a proton on its own will never decay. We 578 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 1: think it might be stable. We've never seen a proton 579 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: jump off the ladder, and every interaction we've ever seen 580 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,360 Speaker 1: keeps the same number of these burials. 581 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 6: I see, But I mean, like, can quarks exist on 582 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 6: their own? 583 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 1: You can't have quarks on their own. They have such 584 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,119 Speaker 1: a strong interaction with other quarks, and the strength of 585 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: that interaction gets stronger and stronger as quarks get further 586 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: and further apart, which creates so much energy around them 587 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: that they create particles out of the vacuum to make 588 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: these pairs and triplets. So you never see quarks by themselves. 589 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: They're always in these pairs or triplets, or maybe in 590 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: weird exotic larger combinations tetra quarks and hexa quarks. But 591 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: there's a special relationship that the universe has with these 592 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: triplets of quarks that we don't understand. We've never seen 593 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: a proton decay, and so we think there might be 594 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: some special rule that protects these quark triplets. On the 595 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,479 Speaker 1: other hand, we have very good reason to think that 596 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: protons might decay I see, or that they should. 597 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 6: Oh, so it's not for certain. 598 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: It's definitely not for certain. No, it's something we don't understand. 599 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: It's a core mystery at the heart of physics, all right. 600 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 6: So you've never seen a proton spontaneously decay And what 601 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 6: does that mean? Like, have we actually like put a 602 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 6: proton on their microscope and left it there for a 603 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 6: couple of hours, for days or years? 604 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 1: Yeah? Actually we put like ten to the thirty four 605 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: protons under a microscope and we waited a few years 606 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: to see if any of them decay. 607 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 6: What do you mean like you actually put them in 608 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 6: a little container and left them there. 609 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: A really big container. Right. One way to do this. 610 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: One way to ask like does a proton decay and 611 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 1: can we measure it? Is to take a single proton 612 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: and wait. But if you think that a proton might 613 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: take like a trillion trillion trillion years to decay, then 614 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: your experiment's going to take a trillion trillion trillion years. Instead, 615 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: what you can do is say, well, I'm going to 616 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: take a trillion trillion trillion protons, which is not that 617 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: hard to make because every piece of matter has a 618 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: lot of protons, and see if any of them decay. 619 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: Because if none of them decay within a year or 620 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: two years, then I can make a statistical argument about 621 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: how long they live. 622 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 6: Oh, I see. So that's what you have in the 623 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 6: in the large Hadron collider. 624 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 1: Not in the large Hadron collider. That's not where we 625 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: study proton decay, but in big underground experiments like Supercomeo 626 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: Conda and the upcoming Dune experiment are perfect for looking 627 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 1: for proton decay. 628 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 6: All right, So you don't think that they can decay, 629 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 6: but you think they might. What makes you think they 630 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 6: might decay. 631 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: Well, the universe sort of doesn't make sense if protons 632 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: can't decay. Like, if protons could decay, the whole universe 633 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: would make a lot more sense, which makes us want 634 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: them to decay even though we've never seen them. And 635 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: the reason is that, well, you know, we have more 636 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: baryons in the universe than anti baryons. Well, we talked 637 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: about earlier how you have to have the same number 638 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 1: of baryons in the universe. That's the opposite for anti baryons. 639 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 1: Like you can actually create a baryon and antibaryon together 640 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 1: because it keeps the number of baryons the same because 641 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 1: anti baryons count for minus one. 642 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 6: Right, and again, a baryon is a triplet of court 643 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 6: that's right. 644 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, And so we think that the universe started off 645 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: with no particles, as you said, and then particles were made, 646 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: which must have made the same number of baryons and 647 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: anti baryons, but somehow we ended up with a lot 648 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: more protons than antiprotons. Like, we think there are almost 649 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: no anti baryons out there, so there must be something 650 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: out there which lets us either create baryons on their 651 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: own or destroy anti baryons preferentially. There's something out there 652 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: to explain why we have so much more matter than antimatter. 653 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: Something allows us to make these baryons. 654 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 6: Right, But isn't it just sort of like electrons do? 655 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 6: Like you know, you can create and destroy electrons. What 656 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 6: makes us think that then electrons can't decay, but protons 657 00:31:58,160 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 6: might be able to. 658 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 1: So you're right, the same argument mint gooes for electrons 659 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 1: that we think, you know, why do we have more 660 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 1: electrons in the universe than positrons? Right? This is this 661 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: whole question of antimatter. But there are other reasons that 662 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: we think that protons might decay, and that comes from 663 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: like looking at the patterns of the forces. We have 664 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: the electromagnetism, which is a force. We have the weak force, 665 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 1: we have the strong force, and we have gravity. And 666 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: people like to try to put these together. They say, well, 667 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: it's weird to have like four different forces or five 668 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: different forces. Can we fit these together into a larger 669 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 1: pattern that like has just one overarching you know, ring 670 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: to rule them all sort of force. And every time 671 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: the theorists do this, every time they put those pieces together, 672 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: it always ends up predicting a new little force that 673 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: we haven't seen very much anymore, that hasn't been around 674 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: since the beginning of the universe that can decay protons. 675 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: It turns protons into a pion and a pository a what. 676 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,719 Speaker 6: So when you try to you know, kind of squish 677 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,719 Speaker 6: all the forces together, like you're seeing theoretically, like if 678 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 6: I try I come up with a like a super 679 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 6: mega force that includes all the other forces, you're saying, 680 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 6: I have to come up with a new fifth force. 681 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's sort of like it's a part of 682 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: this mega force that doesn't happen very much anymore. So 683 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: put all these forces together into one mega force, and 684 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: that mega force because it was around in the early universe, 685 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: before the universe cooled and the forces broke into these 686 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: different forces that we know today, it would have treated 687 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: all the particles equally, like quarks and electrons and all 688 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: those stuff, and so this force should be able to 689 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: turn quarks into leptons for example, and back and forth, 690 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: and currently our forces can't do that, Like, none of 691 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: the forces that we have today are capable of turning 692 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: quarks into leptons. They aren't capable of doing that. But 693 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: this leftover force, there might be a particle which exists 694 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 1: in the universe but requires so much energy to create 695 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: that we hardly ever see it, which means it's very 696 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: unlikely for it to do anything. But it might very occasionally, 697 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: every trillion trillion trillion in years, be responsible for the 698 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: decay of a proton. 699 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 6: I see, maybe protons have this secret weakness, that there's 700 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,760 Speaker 6: this hidden force that hasn't been around since the beginning 701 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 6: of time. 702 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and maybe that's the key, right, because every time 703 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 1: they put one of these theories together, it always predicts 704 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,399 Speaker 1: that protons will decay. It's just like a natural consequence 705 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 1: of making this mega force. It has this symmetry where 706 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 1: it treats the quarks and the leftons in the same way. 707 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,760 Speaker 1: It always predicts this new X particle, the X particle 708 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 1: will take like the two up quarks inside the proton 709 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: and turn them into like a positron and a down cork, 710 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: and that gives you a proton turning into a pion 711 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 1: and a positron, And so it's just inescapable. And every 712 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: time the theorists make one of these theories, they're like, 713 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 1: darn it, my theory predicts proton decay. It's very frustrating 714 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: for them. They like, can't escape this prediction. 715 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 6: I see. All right, Well, let's get into how we 716 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 6: might be looking experimentally for evidence that the proton decays 717 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 6: and and when we can expect an answer. But first, 718 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 6: let's stick another quick grete. 719 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 1: When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth, 720 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 1: or enjoy a rich spoonful of Greek yogurt, you're probably 721 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:16,760 Speaker 1: not thinking about the environmental impact of each and every bite. 722 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 1: But the people in the dairy industry are us. Dairy 723 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 1: has set themselves some ambitious sustainability goals, including being greenhouse 724 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 1: gas neutral by twenty to fifty. That's why they're working 725 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 1: hard every day to find new ways to reduce waste, 726 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,959 Speaker 1: conserve natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. Take water, 727 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: for example, most dairy farms reuse water up to four 728 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 1: times the same water cools the milk cleans equipment, washes 729 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 1: the barn, and irrigates the crops. How is US Dairy 730 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 1: tackling greenhouse gases? Many farms use anaerobic digestors that turn 731 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 1: the methane from maneuver into renewable energy that can power farms, towns, 732 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 1: and electric cars. So the next time you grab a 733 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,360 Speaker 1: slice of pizza or lick an ice cream cone, know 734 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 1: that dairy farmers and processors around the country are using 735 00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 1: the latest practices and innovations to provide the new, intense 736 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,479 Speaker 1: dairy products we love with less of an impact. Visit 737 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 1: usdairy dot com slash sustainability to learn more. 738 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 2: We're just days away from our twenty twenty four iHeartRadio 739 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 2: Music Festival, precedent by Capitol On. 740 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 3: The biggest headliners in live music will be taking over 741 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 3: to Mobile Arena, Las Vegas. 742 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,280 Speaker 4: Lost some special surprises of moments you are not gone 743 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:22,320 Speaker 4: to want to miss. 744 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,280 Speaker 1: Stream only on Hulu. 745 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 4: The iHeartRadio Music Festival. 746 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 5: And listen on iHeartRadio the most anticipated live music events 747 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 5: of the. 748 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,919 Speaker 3: Year this Friday and Saturday, starting at ten thirty pm 749 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 3: Eastern seven thirty Pacific. 750 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:37,439 Speaker 1: Hi. 751 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 9: I'm David Eagleman from the podcast Inner Cosmos, which recently 752 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,279 Speaker 9: hit the number one science podcast in America. I mean 753 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 9: neuroscientists at Stanford, and I've spent my career exploring the 754 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:49,720 Speaker 9: three pound universe. 755 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 1: In our heads. 756 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 9: We're looking at a whole new series of episodes this 757 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 9: season to understand why and how our lives look the 758 00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 9: way they do. Why does your memory drift so much? 759 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:01,399 Speaker 5: Why is it so. 760 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:05,320 Speaker 9: Hard to keep a secret, When should you not trust 761 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:09,800 Speaker 9: your intuition? Why do brains so easily fall for magic tricks? 762 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 1: And why do they love conspiracy theories? 763 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 9: I'm hitting these questions and hundreds more because the more 764 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 9: we know about what's running under the hood, the better 765 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 9: we can steer our lives. Join me weekly to explore 766 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,240 Speaker 9: the relationship between your brain and your life by digging 767 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 9: into unexpected questions. Listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman 768 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 9: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get 769 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:35,919 Speaker 9: your podcasts. 770 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,800 Speaker 6: All right, Daniel, do protons and love live forever? It 771 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:51,840 Speaker 6: is the question, But I guess we're only tackling the 772 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:52,799 Speaker 6: proton party here today. 773 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. Don't come to a particle physicist for questions about 774 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 1: love unless it's about love of particles. All right, So 775 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 1: there are re s to think maybe the proton does decay. 776 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,880 Speaker 1: One is that, you know, it might explain antimatter, and 777 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,280 Speaker 1: the other one is that the theory sort of point 778 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,799 Speaker 1: to maybe a possible kind of new force which would 779 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 1: allow protons to decay. 780 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 6: Is that kind of the idea? 781 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, And remember this is all theoretical. This is like, 782 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: we look at the way the universe has arranged and 783 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,760 Speaker 1: we think it would make more sense if we added 784 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,799 Speaker 1: this one other piece. But that piece would mean that 785 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,359 Speaker 1: protons should decay. So then we go when we look 786 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,400 Speaker 1: for it, we say, well, maybe they do. Maybe we 787 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,880 Speaker 1: just haven't noticed. Maybe it takes a long long time, 788 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:33,760 Speaker 1: and so we just need to be really patient. 789 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 6: Yes. See, it is that theoretically we don't think that 790 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 6: the proton can decay, but if it does, it kind 791 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 6: of means the existence of a new force. Is that 792 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 6: kind of the significance of this decay. 793 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, so we had to invent this rule, this number 794 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,680 Speaker 1: of baryons is fixed rule, which we don't really like 795 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 1: because it doesn't really make any sense and it violates 796 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 1: our understanding of matter and antimatter asymmetry, and it keeps 797 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: us from having this new mega force et So we'd 798 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:02,440 Speaker 1: love to get rid of that and replace it with 799 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 1: this new force and allow protons to decay. But for 800 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,719 Speaker 1: that to be true, we have to actually see one decaying. 801 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,960 Speaker 1: We have to prove that they can, because nobody's ever 802 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:12,399 Speaker 1: seen one. 803 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 6: So if you see one decay, then it's like you 804 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 6: have to break the laws of physics. 805 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 1: Kind of Yes, if you see one decay, that's guaranteed 806 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:20,680 Speaker 1: Nobel prize because you get to rewrite the laws of 807 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,360 Speaker 1: physics in a way that makes much more sense to everybody, 808 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:27,040 Speaker 1: that like fits together with some real symmetry and beauty. 809 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 1: And so everybody's sort of hoping that protons will decay. 810 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,600 Speaker 1: I mean not your protons, not my protons, but some 811 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,400 Speaker 1: protons somewhere we hope will eventually decay. 812 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,240 Speaker 6: Did they already print that Nobel Prize? Like Nobel Prize 813 00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 6: for the decay of the proton, it's just sitting on 814 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:42,360 Speaker 6: the shelf waiting for people to claim it. 815 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,160 Speaker 1: You know. It's one of those experiments out there that 816 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 1: if you make it work, if you see this thing, 817 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 1: it's basically a guaranteed Nobel Prize. There are a few 818 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 1: things like that, you know, find the Higgs boson, see 819 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,759 Speaker 1: gravitational waves, find a magnetic monopole. These things that people 820 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 1: have been looking for forever they think should exist, but 821 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 1: nobody's ever seen one. If you found and it would 822 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,480 Speaker 1: really you know, fill in a missing box and our 823 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:05,680 Speaker 1: understanding of the universe. 824 00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 6: So yeah, go look for one, expose the proton, get 825 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:08,720 Speaker 6: a prize. 826 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 1: That's right, This is particle physicist ten most wanted lists, right. 827 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,080 Speaker 6: So then there are a couple of experiments out there 828 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 6: that are actually trying to win this noble prize or 829 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,000 Speaker 6: trying to see if protons decay, and and so what's 830 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,080 Speaker 6: involved here, Daniel? Are they just put a bunch in 831 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,480 Speaker 6: a box and then stare at them? Or or do 832 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:26,080 Speaker 6: you shake it? Do you shake the box? What do 833 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 6: you have to do? 834 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,479 Speaker 1: You try not to shake the box. And in fact, 835 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 1: you know, you can play a sort of simple calculation 836 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 1: with any blob of protons like you. You know, you, 837 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 1: for example, have like ten to the twenty eight protons, 838 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:43,279 Speaker 1: something like a trillion quadrillion protons in your body. So 839 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 1: you know already that protons live for more than you know, 840 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,319 Speaker 1: one hundred years, because people don't tend to die of 841 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,200 Speaker 1: proton decay, right, you know, like people just like suddenly 842 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,719 Speaker 1: disintegrate like theanos snapping his thumb, right. 843 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 6: But also, I mean you said that the protons in 844 00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,520 Speaker 6: my body are kind of bound together with other protons 845 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,080 Speaker 6: and neutron and that helps them live longer. 846 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, But unfortunately that's the only kind of proton we 847 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: can really study. Like we can take pure individual free 848 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,400 Speaker 1: protons and study them on their own. All we can 849 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,040 Speaker 1: do is study protons that exist in matter, which are 850 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 1: in bound states. And so that's a big asterisk on 851 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,080 Speaker 1: all of the results that we're going to talk about 852 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,880 Speaker 1: today that none of them actually involves studying free protons. 853 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,400 Speaker 6: Okay, so then stem me through. What are these experiments 854 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:25,279 Speaker 6: and what are they doing. 855 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,560 Speaker 1: Well, the most powerful result right now, the one that 856 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,600 Speaker 1: tells us the most about proton decay, comes from this 857 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 1: experiment in Japan. It's super Commeoconda, and they basically have 858 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:38,480 Speaker 1: a thirteen story stack of water and it's just a 859 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:43,240 Speaker 1: huge container filled with water, and it's surrounded by cameras essentially, 860 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 1: and it's totally dark and it's underground. And this is 861 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 1: an experiment that's mostly designed to look for neutrinos coming 862 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 1: from the sun or coming from deep space or from supernovas. 863 00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,720 Speaker 1: But it's also good for looking for proton decay because 864 00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,560 Speaker 1: if proton decays in this tank, they think they will see. 865 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,080 Speaker 6: Oh, I see, so, but it's filled with water. I 866 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:07,319 Speaker 6: guess water has hydrogen oxygen, and those all have protons, and. 867 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,360 Speaker 1: They have something like ten to the thirty two protons 868 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:14,000 Speaker 1: basically sitting in a tank. And so if none of 869 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,640 Speaker 1: them decay in a year, then you know that the 870 00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,520 Speaker 1: half life of the proton is more than ten to 871 00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:21,080 Speaker 1: the thirty two years. I see. 872 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,000 Speaker 6: But these are not isolated protons. Y'reing these bound states 873 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,319 Speaker 6: within the atoms. That does that protect them? 874 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,759 Speaker 1: It does protect them potentially, And so, as we were 875 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,359 Speaker 1: saying earlier, like this is a big asterisk in all 876 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,400 Speaker 1: of these results. We would love to have ten to 877 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,360 Speaker 1: the thirty two free protons in a container that we 878 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,480 Speaker 1: could study and then we could directly understand this question. 879 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,920 Speaker 1: But we don't. All the protons we have are inbound states. 880 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,600 Speaker 1: We don't have ionized hydrogen gas in large enough containers 881 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:49,960 Speaker 1: that we build cameras around, and so we just have 882 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,799 Speaker 1: to sort of like make the measurement on bound protons 883 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,840 Speaker 1: and assume that it also works for free protons. But 884 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 1: it's a big assumption, but it's also all we can 885 00:42:58,200 --> 00:42:59,280 Speaker 1: do currently. 886 00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:04,000 Speaker 6: All right, Staring at water one experiment that. 887 00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,160 Speaker 1: You make particle physics sound so exciting. 888 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 6: I mean, look for variations and the laws of physics 889 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:17,440 Speaker 6: in violations of a symmetry of matter and antimatter, otherwise 890 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:18,439 Speaker 6: known as staring at water. 891 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:20,480 Speaker 1: If it happened, it would be kind of dramatic because 892 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,440 Speaker 1: you would have this special signature because you would get 893 00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,640 Speaker 1: a pion on one side, which turns into two photons. 894 00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:29,680 Speaker 1: You get these two little splashes in your camera, and 895 00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:32,080 Speaker 1: on the other side you would get a positron, which 896 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,279 Speaker 1: makes a little splash. So they've simulated exactly what this 897 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,840 Speaker 1: would look like in their cameras and it's very weird 898 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,680 Speaker 1: and unusual and different from anything they've ever seen before. 899 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:42,960 Speaker 1: And so they've been running this thing for years and 900 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,319 Speaker 1: years and years and they've never seen a single one. 901 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,840 Speaker 1: And so that means that they can pretty confidently say 902 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,279 Speaker 1: that the lifetime of the proton is more than ten 903 00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 1: to the thirty four years, which is a huge number 904 00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:01,400 Speaker 1: because remember the universe, the entire universe is only thirteen 905 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:05,200 Speaker 1: billion years old, so like this is many orders of 906 00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:07,720 Speaker 1: magnitude longer than the history of the universe. 907 00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:08,360 Speaker 3: So woa. 908 00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,239 Speaker 6: But again, these are in bound states or do you 909 00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:12,359 Speaker 6: calibrate for that as well? 910 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,920 Speaker 1: These are in bound states. No, we can't really calibrate 911 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:18,279 Speaker 1: for that. We don't really know how to extrapolate from 912 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:22,279 Speaker 1: bound state protons to unbound protons to free protons. We 913 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:24,960 Speaker 1: just sort of like assume it's going to be something similar. 914 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,960 Speaker 6: Okay, So then that's one experiment, the super Cameo super 915 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:33,600 Speaker 6: Cameo Condaconda, all right, sounds like a superhero or something. 916 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,440 Speaker 1: It's an awesome experiment in Japan. And then we're building 917 00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,439 Speaker 1: one here in the United States that we talked about 918 00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:44,239 Speaker 1: on our recent episode called Dune Deep Underground Neutrino Experiment. 919 00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:48,560 Speaker 1: And these neutrino experiments essentially for free, you get a 920 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,600 Speaker 1: proton decay experiment because the same thing they can be 921 00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,120 Speaker 1: used to look for neutrinos in Dune's case, from a 922 00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:58,080 Speaker 1: neutrino beam or from the Sun or from supernova's can 923 00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,600 Speaker 1: also look for decays of protons. 924 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:02,560 Speaker 6: And this is kind of a similar idea too, right, 925 00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:04,839 Speaker 6: Like you have a big vat of stuff and you 926 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:05,839 Speaker 6: wait for it to change. 927 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, and in the case of Dune, it's not water, 928 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:12,359 Speaker 1: it's liquid argon. They're pioneering in new technology. They take 929 00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,520 Speaker 1: this noble gas argon and they cool it down until 930 00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:17,640 Speaker 1: it's a liquid. But it has the same property that 931 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,440 Speaker 1: it's very quiet. So mostly if you have a huge 932 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:24,960 Speaker 1: several ton container of liquid argon underground and you put 933 00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,560 Speaker 1: cameras on it, it'll stay dark. But if you see 934 00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:31,200 Speaker 1: an interaction like a neutrino or a proton decaying, you 935 00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,600 Speaker 1: should be able to spot that because it's like taking 936 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,279 Speaker 1: a picture of a single tiny flash of light in 937 00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:39,400 Speaker 1: a very dark room sensitive camera. You can pick that up. 938 00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,040 Speaker 6: Cool, and so far they haven't seen it. But again 939 00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:44,879 Speaker 6: this one is also you're looking at argon, so you're 940 00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,520 Speaker 6: looking at protons in a bound state inside of the 941 00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:48,840 Speaker 6: nucleus of the argon at them. 942 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,080 Speaker 1: That's right, But hey, that's all we can do. Dune 943 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,400 Speaker 1: hasn't turned on yet. They're still building it. It's going 944 00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:55,560 Speaker 1: to be turning on in a few years. But because 945 00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:58,960 Speaker 1: it's a much larger volume, they have many more tons, 946 00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,560 Speaker 1: it will provide even more stringent limits on the lifetime 947 00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:06,080 Speaker 1: of the proton. Or maybe they'll get lucky, maybe they'll 948 00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:07,200 Speaker 1: see one decay but I. 949 00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:09,840 Speaker 6: Guess, why can't you just like isolate a proton and 950 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:11,479 Speaker 6: look at it. Is that hard? I mean you guys 951 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:12,680 Speaker 6: do it at the large pattern collider. 952 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:14,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, you can isolate a proton and you can look 953 00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,440 Speaker 1: at it. But a single proton will not tell you 954 00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:19,640 Speaker 1: much about the lifetime of the proton unless you wait 955 00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:22,359 Speaker 1: a very very long time. So you either need a 956 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,880 Speaker 1: lot of protons or a lot of time. And a 957 00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:29,040 Speaker 1: lot of protons are very hard to keep isolated. I mean, 958 00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,560 Speaker 1: you could have a gas of protons. We do that 959 00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:33,680 Speaker 1: at the hydron collider, but you know we have like 960 00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:37,400 Speaker 1: ten to twelve protons, ten to thirteen protons. You need 961 00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:39,919 Speaker 1: to keep these things isolated. You need to watch them 962 00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:42,120 Speaker 1: and then you need to instrument it, right. You need 963 00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,839 Speaker 1: to be watching for them to decay. And so that's 964 00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,520 Speaker 1: much easier to do when you have a neutral substance, 965 00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,120 Speaker 1: something which is quiet, which doesn't otherwise make lots of 966 00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:50,919 Speaker 1: flashes of light. 967 00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:54,040 Speaker 6: Oh, I see, you can isolate a whole bunch of protons, 968 00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,319 Speaker 6: but then you actually have to notice if like one 969 00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:57,000 Speaker 6: of them decays. 970 00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:59,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, because a bunch of protons together is called the plasma, 971 00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:02,879 Speaker 1: and a plasma is not a quiet thing to instrument, right, 972 00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,080 Speaker 1: that's like where we try to do fusion and stuff 973 00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:07,400 Speaker 1: like that. So it's a pretty tricky experiment to do 974 00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,719 Speaker 1: for actual free protons, which is why we only ever 975 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,319 Speaker 1: do it for protons in a bound state. But you're right, 976 00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,640 Speaker 1: that doesn't actually tell us about free proton all right. 977 00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,200 Speaker 6: So there are people looking for this decay of the proton. 978 00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:22,760 Speaker 6: Then there's people staring at water and are gone waiting 979 00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,560 Speaker 6: for one of these protons to suddenly die. 980 00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,960 Speaker 1: That's right, staring at water waiting for a Nobel prize 981 00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:29,520 Speaker 1: to pop. 982 00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:31,920 Speaker 6: Out out of a little tiny proton. 983 00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:34,320 Speaker 1: Hey, if I told you stare at this tank of 984 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:36,520 Speaker 1: Nobel prize might appear, you know, you might devote a 985 00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:39,120 Speaker 1: couple of years to that, Yeah, shorter than a phg. 986 00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:43,040 Speaker 6: A couple of trillion years went on. Or you might 987 00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:44,080 Speaker 6: not see anything. 988 00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,319 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, that's usually the case in particle physics. You're looking 989 00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:51,359 Speaker 1: for something crazy, you're hoping you might see something spectacular, 990 00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:54,200 Speaker 1: but to see nothing. But the good news is that 991 00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:56,880 Speaker 1: most of our experiments are still interesting even if you 992 00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,560 Speaker 1: don't see anything, because you can still say something. You 993 00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:03,120 Speaker 1: can say we didn't see the proton decay therefore we 994 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,440 Speaker 1: know it doesn't decay on average in less than ten 995 00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:08,960 Speaker 1: to the thirty four ten to the thirty five years. 996 00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,440 Speaker 1: So you still get to say something interesting about physics. 997 00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:13,399 Speaker 6: So I see, all right, So it sounds like you're 998 00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,200 Speaker 6: pretty confident then that we can say that the proton 999 00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:19,799 Speaker 6: does not decay or won't die, or will live for 1000 00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,759 Speaker 6: at least ten to the thirty four years. Yeah, which 1001 00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:24,600 Speaker 6: is pretty much forever, right. 1002 00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,200 Speaker 1: It's almost forever. I mean, it's a lot longer than 1003 00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,040 Speaker 1: our universe has been around so far. But it's also 1004 00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:33,960 Speaker 1: still a real problem for theoretical physicists when they try 1005 00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:37,480 Speaker 1: to construct their grand unified theories, their theories of everything, 1006 00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,879 Speaker 1: when they want to understand what happened at the very 1007 00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:42,400 Speaker 1: beginning of the universe, they have to do it in 1008 00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,719 Speaker 1: a way that keeps the proton from decaying, and that's 1009 00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,600 Speaker 1: theoretically very tricky. It's like, you know, they have to 1010 00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:50,719 Speaker 1: pass through the eye of a needle to keep the 1011 00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:54,040 Speaker 1: proton from decaying in their theory. And so everybody would 1012 00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:56,480 Speaker 1: be very happy to see a proton decay. 1013 00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:58,760 Speaker 6: Oh, I see, because it would make the equations easier 1014 00:48:58,800 --> 00:48:59,200 Speaker 6: to solve. 1015 00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,120 Speaker 1: It would mean that all the theories which predict proton 1016 00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,279 Speaker 1: decay might actually be correct, and those equations are beautiful 1017 00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:07,359 Speaker 1: and they make a lot of sense, and they answer 1018 00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,239 Speaker 1: a lot of other questions about like matter and antimatter 1019 00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:14,239 Speaker 1: and the forces being unified. But those equations can't be 1020 00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:17,160 Speaker 1: right if the proton doesn't decay. If the proton doesn't decay, 1021 00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,319 Speaker 1: those equations are just wrong, even though they're beautiful and 1022 00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,920 Speaker 1: they're simple and they're attractive. So then we need to 1023 00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:26,719 Speaker 1: find some other way to solve those problems. And theoretically 1024 00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:28,960 Speaker 1: that's just much harder without proton decay. 1025 00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:31,240 Speaker 6: So it's not just a whole bunch of physicists looking 1026 00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:34,080 Speaker 6: staring at water. You're staring at water waiting for the 1027 00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:38,160 Speaker 6: proton to die, hoping, hoping. You're hoping for the proton 1028 00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:38,680 Speaker 6: to die here. 1029 00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:41,239 Speaker 1: That's right, that's the big twist. You thought we would 1030 00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:43,480 Speaker 1: be rooting for the proton to live forever, but instead 1031 00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:45,880 Speaker 1: we hear anti protonites. 1032 00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:50,080 Speaker 6: You're like, just die already. 1033 00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:51,280 Speaker 1: We're cheering on its demise. 1034 00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:52,480 Speaker 6: I want to retire and win. 1035 00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:56,600 Speaker 1: That's right. Somebody in a very future universe will finally 1036 00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:59,600 Speaker 1: see a proton decay in a trillion trillion trillion years. 1037 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:01,760 Speaker 1: Hope they're still giving out Nobel prizes. 1038 00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:05,640 Speaker 6: Then I hope our protons are still around. All right, Well, 1039 00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:08,120 Speaker 6: we hope you enjoyed that and got a little bit 1040 00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:10,320 Speaker 6: of a sense of how long things live in the universe. 1041 00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,000 Speaker 6: Apparently some things do, some things don't. 1042 00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:15,680 Speaker 1: And it's amazing the cosmic importance of one little proton, 1043 00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,920 Speaker 1: a single proton in a vat of water in Japan 1044 00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:22,520 Speaker 1: decaying could crack open the answer to these deep mysteries 1045 00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,479 Speaker 1: about the beginning of our universe, the balance between matter 1046 00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:29,360 Speaker 1: and anti matter, how everything fits together. It's incredibly important, 1047 00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,799 Speaker 1: and it just really highlights the connection between particle physics 1048 00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:36,760 Speaker 1: and cosmology and astrophysics, and really particle physics is basically 1049 00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:38,239 Speaker 1: the whole universe. That's what I'm saying. 1050 00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:41,440 Speaker 6: You're saying, give us more money. We're studying everything. 1051 00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,239 Speaker 1: That's right. That's what everything I say translates to effectively. 1052 00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:46,440 Speaker 6: All right, Well, I hope that give you some stuff 1053 00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:48,680 Speaker 6: to think about. The protons in your body and the 1054 00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:50,400 Speaker 6: electrons might live. 1055 00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,600 Speaker 1: Forever, but particle physicists are hoping they don't see you 1056 00:50:53,640 --> 00:51:04,080 Speaker 1: next time. Thanks for listening, and remember that. Daniel and 1057 00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:07,800 Speaker 1: Jorge explain the Universe is a production of iHeartRadio. For 1058 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:12,920 Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 1059 00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:26,880 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. When you 1060 00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:28,960 Speaker 1: pop a piece of cheese into your mouth, you're probably 1061 00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:32,080 Speaker 1: not thinking about the environmental impact. But the people in 1062 00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:35,240 Speaker 1: the dairy industry are. That's why they're working hard every 1063 00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:38,640 Speaker 1: day to find new ways to reduce waste, conserve natural resources, 1064 00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:42,240 Speaker 1: and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. How is us dairy 1065 00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:46,399 Speaker 1: tackling greenhouse gases? Many farms use anaerobic digestors to turn 1066 00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:50,960 Speaker 1: the methane from manure into renewable energy that can power farms, towns, 1067 00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:55,080 Speaker 1: and electric cars. Visit you asdairy dot COM's Last Sustainability 1068 00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:55,920 Speaker 1: to learn more. 1069 00:51:56,560 --> 00:52:00,040 Speaker 2: We're just days away from our twenty twenty four The 1070 00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:03,040 Speaker 2: Art Radio Music Festival, presented by Capital On. 1071 00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,680 Speaker 3: The biggest headliners in live music will be taking over 1072 00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:08,799 Speaker 3: to Mobile Arena, Las Vegas. 1073 00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:11,320 Speaker 4: Lost some special surprises at moments you are not gone 1074 00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:14,719 Speaker 4: to want to miss. Stream only on Hulu the iHeartRadio 1075 00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:16,480 Speaker 4: Music Festival. 1076 00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:20,600 Speaker 5: And listen on iHeartRadio the most anticipated live music events 1077 00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:22,279 Speaker 5: of the year. 1078 00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:25,360 Speaker 3: This Friday and Saturday, starting at ten thirty pm Eastern, 1079 00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:26,520 Speaker 3: seven thirty Pacific. 1080 00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:27,279 Speaker 1: Hi. 1081 00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,040 Speaker 9: I'm David Eagleman from the podcast Inner Cosmos, which recently 1082 00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:33,839 Speaker 9: hit the number one science podcast in America. I mean 1083 00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:37,600 Speaker 9: neuroscientists at Stanford, and I've spent my career exploring the 1084 00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:39,640 Speaker 9: three pound universe in our heads. 1085 00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:43,040 Speaker 6: Join me weekly to explore the relationship. 1086 00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,399 Speaker 9: Between your brain and your life. Because the more we 1087 00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:48,359 Speaker 9: know about what's running under the hood, better we can 1088 00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:52,120 Speaker 9: steer our lives. Listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman 1089 00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:55,440 Speaker 9: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 1090 00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:56,359 Speaker 9: your podcasts.