WEBVTT - Part One: A Terrible Story About The Internet 0:00:00.920 --> 0:00:04.080 We love your plants, Sofie, everyone loves your plant listeners. 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:08.639 People on the internet find Sophie on Twitter and tell 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:10.760 her you like her plant. It's a raven z eazy 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:15.480 and it brings me so much happiness. It does. It's plant. 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:18.280 It's a good plant. It seems very goth. It's like 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:22.400 that song What's Something Goth? The Black Parade? That song 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:25.279 was pretty goth right from from when when I was 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:29.600 in high school. That seems go. Yeah, it was like that, Margaret, 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:34.040 I'm not laughing at your choice? How you doing my choice? 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:37.400 That was just like the one song when I think 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:41.120 about like goth stuff from high school, that was a song. 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:45.400 That's the only thing I remember. You know, I actually 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:49.920 have culture. Yeah, as soon as I left high school, 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:52.360 I did not notice a pop culture for ten years 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:55.480 um and I was way too elite of a goth 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:57.920 at that time to do be even listening to God 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:00.400 from my own era. I was far more interested Sisters 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:02.960 of Mercy. I've never even heard of that, But I 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:04.959 was never gone. I was never into that stuff. I 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:07.640 was just adjacent to it. Because the goth kids were 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:09.880 also the kids you were most likely to be able 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:14.440 to play d and D with so yes, yeah, that's 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:17.080 that's how I caught. So this is Behind the Bastards 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:20.479 and we're here with Margaret Killjoy. This is a podcast 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:22.640 about people you can play D and D with when 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:25.880 you are in high school, like Margaret Eldritch from Sisters 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:30.080 of Mercy. Yeah, pretty good DN D person. I wish, 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:35.720 I mean, yes, yes, Margaret, how do you feel about like, 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:38.760 what is the fifth edition versus I'm still a path finder? 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:41.319 You know, path finder guy? Like I never got past 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:43.399 three five. It gave me everything I wanted in terms 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:46.520 of rules. I actually like five five more than three 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:48.760 point five. I wasn't expecting that to be the case. 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:53.200 I thought three point five felt done and then fourth 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:57.360 edition was obviously a nightmare. And um, I started playing 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:00.360 five E and it's my favorite Dungeons and Drag and 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:05.280 I can elitistly claim to be playing since uh a 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:08.400 D and D. Yeah, that was my first generation was 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:11.280 a D and D. I do remember thack. Oh by 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:13.880 the way, this is also again behind the Bastards and 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:15.880 we're here. What do we? What do we? What is 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:18.680 our what is our job? Here? Are we not talking 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:23.760 about D and D? Not not today alright? But with 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:27.680 what we are talking with, Margaret Coo, who who is 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:31.639 the newest person on our network, Cool Zone Media. That's right, 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:36.120 that's right. We have we have contractually locked you in 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:41.280 um to producing content and entering the death spiral of 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:44.720 content creation for podcasts. I was I was going to say, 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:49.040 I'm really thrilled and very happy, but okay, I'm always 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:52.040 going to call it a death spiral because it is. Um, Margaret, 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:55.320 how are you liking the spiral? You know, all of 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:58.080 life is a death spiral. That's right, that's right. Just 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:01.760 you choose which spiral to to go down. Yeah. It's 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:05.519 like a water park, yeah yeah, or a toilet Yeah, 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:08.200 I mean toilets and water parks very similar in a 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:12.639 number of ways. Um. So yeah, well we'll move on. 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:17.520 Um Margaret, how do you feel about people being harassed 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:22.919 by the internet until the commit suicide? Generally negative? Yeah, 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:26.200 that was a bad Yeah, that's not my not my 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:29.799 favorite thing that's ever happened. It's not. It's like it's 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:33.320 really I think at this point everyone here has seen 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:36.840 what happens when people come into the crosshairs of a 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:40.200 digital hate mop, right, Like it's like a daily occurrence 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:44.840 on the Internet now and yeah, so I think there 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:50.280 is kind of some resilience that's been built up, like 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:52.920 like we've all kind of been vaccinated from gamer Gates, 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:55.960 So I think maybe people are a little more prepared 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:57.640 for it now than they used to be. But if 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:01.720 you remember like gamer Gate times, especially to fourteen, when 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:04.720 these mobs started going after these women who were like 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:08.480 video game reviewers and stuff and how like, it felt 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:11.840 really unprecedented and it was just like this this bizarre, 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:14.320 horrible thing that we all started to realize was going 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:19.200 to be with us forever. Um. Yeah, it's it's it's 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:23.520 it's a problem, um and it's a problem that has 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:27.640 uh continues on. Like it's one of those things normally, 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:29.960 like people talk pretty openly about like, oh, who's the 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:32.440 main character on Twitter today? You know, who's being like 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:36.360 harassed or whatever today. But there's like and that's kind 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:37.680 of the side of it, I guess when I'm talking 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:39.840 about like that there's been some kind of immunity built up. 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:42.000 That's the side of it where there's like, oh, yeah, 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:43.640 you just know that like every now and then, if 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:45.920 you have any kind of prominence on the internet, you know, 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:48.479 you could wind up getting like yelled at or made 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:50.279 fun of or whatever for a period of time. And 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:52.960 that's just something, especially if you're gonna be making things 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:56.719 for the Internet, you just accept it. Um. But even 0:04:56.880 --> 0:05:00.640 though it's gotten a little more standardized, there's this really 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:05.039 tremendously deadly underbelly to it um. Up until June of 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:10.520 Near was a well loved developer of emulators. Uh Near, 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:14.360 also known as bu b y Uu, was non binary 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:17.560 as well as autistic. These characteristics made them an ideal 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:20.480 target of a website called Kiwi Farms. Do you know 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:23.720 anything about Kiwi Farms, Margaret, No, This sounds like the 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:27.080 kind of nightmare stuff that I've avoided successfully until this moment. 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:28.920 That's a good thing to do. It's a good thing 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:32.040 to avoid. Um. In brief, Kiwi Farms is a forum 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:35.320 where people gather information on and harass individuals they call 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:38.760 loll cows um. The name comes from the fact that 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:42.479 the behavior of these people, specifically their reactions to harassment, 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:46.320 provide an endless font of lolls, like a cow provides milk. Right, 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:48.960 That's why they That's how they're looking at this, Like 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:51.000 we have this like stable of people who we can 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:56.640 kind of prod and poke intermittently to like make us laugh. Um, 0:05:56.680 --> 0:05:59.520 that's the attit. Yeah, it's yeah, it's it sounds good. 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:01.000 It sounds like a lot of people who are doing 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:05.159 well in life and emotionally. So one of Near's friends 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:08.600 wrote a Google doc explaining what Kiwi Farms did to Near, 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:10.559 who seems to have been targeted for the same reason. 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:13.039 Predators usually picked their targets um Near. He had been 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:15.840 abused before, Um, and they were seen as kind of 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:19.520 vulnerable quote and this is from from one of their friends. 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:22.400 Not to be defeated. In their pursuit of utter emotional 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:25.440 and psychological destruction, they went after who Near treasured most 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:29.120 their friends, doxing some directly, harassing others, and even specifically 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:32.960 seeking out supicidal people to target. That broke Near after 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:35.520 falling down a spiral of depression and eventually breaking off 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:38.760 contact with everyone last year, I feared for the worst. Eventually, 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:40.960 they were luckily able to get help and found medication 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:43.360 that helped them cope with the psychological scarce of abuse 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:46.600 in late I first heard from Near again in late October, 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:49.360 and we even started having chats. It seemed things were 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:52.800 getting better. Unfortunately, medication can be a fickle beast. It 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:55.279 didn't work forever. The looming threat of Kiwi Farms, of 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:57.840 their power to destroy not just Near but also their friends, 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:01.120 caused them daily anxiety that just wouldn't go away. Worried 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:03.280 that their friends would feel burdened by their condition again, 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:06.160 Near decided to avoid the subject. I only found out 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.080 about this relapse today. To the people of Kiwi Farms, 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:11.120 this is a video game that people on the other 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:13.320 side of the screen or real makes no difference that 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:15.240 a light in the kill counter going up just like 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.840 an FPS player would. Lacking any empathy, they have no 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:21.640 regard for the damage they inflict on others. So as 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:24.240 you might have guessed Near committed suicide in June, of 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:27.680 Kiwi Farms did not have any anything to do with 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:30.840 the suicide or of encouraging harassment against Near. Um it's 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:33.400 worth noting that Near is the third person in recent 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:36.200 years whose suicide has been blamed to some extent on 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:39.480 relentless harassment from Kiwi Farms. So today we're going to 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:42.000 talk about where Kiwi Farms comes from. Um, they're not 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:45.160 the primary subject of our episode, though, we will be 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:48.120 talking about their very first victim, and and not just 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:50.200 their very first victim we're going to be talking about 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:54.640 the person I think is probably the first victim of 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:59.400 concerted online harassment, like the first person that this happened 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:02.640 to in any kind of sizeable way. Um. And that 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:05.920 person is a I guess you'd call them an internet 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:09.760 content creator named Chris Chan um, or at least that's 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:12.280 the name she kind of has picked for herself, the 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:19.040 first the first victim of like gamified abuse and cool. Yeah, yeah, 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:21.560 do you know what anything about this person? I know, 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:24.440 I don't. I know a lot about people harassing people 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:28.320 on the Internet and it causing real life impacts and 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:32.760 bomb threats and docks and all that stuff. So Chris 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:36.480 Chan is where that playbook started getting sketched out for 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:40.480 the first time. Christian has been kind of continuously harassed 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:43.760 for something like twenty years now. Uh it is. It 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:46.760 has been going on a tremendously long time. And and 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:50.400 I should note Christian is not a good person, um, 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:53.160 and not a sympathetic person like they are to blame 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:55.160 for not the harassment, but for a lot of the 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:57.200 unpleasantness in their life because they've made a lot of 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:02.960 horrible choices. UM. I should note here that recently, since 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:07.480 about and we'll get into this. Christian identifies as Christine 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:10.440 as well as Christian. They still use both names, um, 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:15.080 but they identify as Christine Christina. They have transitioned. UM 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:17.800 will be gendering her properly, even when we discuss her 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:20.120 early life, and when I read quotes from other people 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:22.640 talking about her, I'm going to do h my best 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:25.680 to not miss gender her. Even when they do. We 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:28.720 will still call her Christian as well as Christine, because again, 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:31.480 she still identifies as Christian on social media. So I 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:36.920 think that's fine. Um, But yeah, so UM. She was 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:41.720 born on Christine Chandler was born on February night two 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:46.240 at Martha Jefferson Hospital in Charlottesville, Virginia. Her father, Bob, 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:49.360 worked as an engineer at Western Electric. He was apparently 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:51.800 a very gifted one, and he held patents for nine 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:54.800 different inventions over the course of his career. He collected 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:58.679 classic jazz music and stamps. Her mother, Barbara, was a 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:01.320 secretary at Virginia p Hour. She and Bob both had 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:05.120 estranged children from other marriages prior to getting together. Barbara 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:07.600 is alleged to have been abusive, and we know her 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:12.600 seventeen year old son I think emancipated himself before Christine 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:15.640 was born. Um, Bob had two kids who are not 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:17.880 really in his in his life. So both of these 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:22.520 people had like we're fairly old when they had Christine, um, 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:25.360 and had kids that they had kind of either abandoned 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:26.920 or who had been like I don't want anything to 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:31.800 do with you. So maybe not great parents. Probably not. 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:34.320 I don't know everything about their circumstances, but you know, 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:37.360 like if you have three kids off you and none 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:39.480 of them wanted anything to do with you, that's maybe 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:44.560 not the best side. Best side. Um, Barbara was and 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:48.119 is she is still alive, a massive hoarder. Um. Christine's 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:50.480 childhood was always going to be challenging. You know, this 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:53.360 is a lot already we've discussed a significant amount to 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:57.040 kind of go into as a baby. Um. At one point, 0:10:57.160 --> 0:11:00.600 Bob built a workshop for him and his to make 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.600 things in together. He was very excited about, like, oh, 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:06.160 you know, I'm gonna we're gonna have all these projects together. 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:08.240 And they never got to use it because Barbara just 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:09.840 like filled it up with junk. She just is this 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:14.520 kind of like that kind of breaks my heart. Yeah, 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:19.160 father daughter crafting time. Yeah Yeah, but but Barbara just 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:22.560 like can't not collect ship um, which is a thing 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:25.640 that Christine will inherit um inherent maybe the wrong word, 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:28.800 but we'll wind up doing as well, you know. Um. 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:32.600 Christine claimed years later that she spoke her first word 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:35.800 monkey at two months old, which is likely not possible. 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:38.959 She lies a lot about things, you know, she makes 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:42.439 up a lot of stuff. Um, I don't think kids 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:45.360 can say, uh, speak at that at that earliest date. 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:47.400 And I've known a couple of two month olds and sure, 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:50.040 and they're so familiar with the concept of monkey that 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:55.080 also they can random noises. Yeah, they like, I don't know, 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:58.079 I'm not an expert in child speech development, but well 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:01.720 I am, And no I'm not. Well that's your previous 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:04.679 job before this. Yeah, I'm an expert at ship talking 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:06.599 little kids because they can't talk back, they don't know 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:09.560 how to talk. It's real easy. Does that mean you 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:12.079 use up your one lie on them? Like right away? Yeah, 0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:15.520 immediately immediately, But you just have to keep it going 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:18.440 for the rest of your life. I did have. I 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:22.000 had a person who I'm very close to, their uncle. 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:25.040 The lie that he told her was that Star Trek 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:29.080 the next generation was real m she was like six 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:32.680 and then yeah, which is a nice lie. I think 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:34.560 if you get to believe for a while that all 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:36.600 those people are really up there, that's not a mean one. 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:44.240 I actually might prefer that to Santa Claus. Yeah, it's 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:48.160 just like the little kids the start that the starship 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:52.600 enterprises out there, and then at age ten you sit 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:54.600 them down and tell them that there's no joy in 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:56.840 the world, and yeah, they have to they have to. 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:03.400 There's no replicators. Yeah, there's nothing sorry, um that would 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:06.040 break kids in an interesting new way. Yeah. Yeah, that's 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:08.240 what we need more of. Yeah, well you gotta break 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:10.559 them some way, right, That's what we do to kids, 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:18.719 do you That's what we do. Therefore, apparently, Sophie, I 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:21.200 don't know, I don't have kids, because it seems like 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:26.920 it's easy to funk that up. Um so um. Speaking 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:30.920 of which, back to our story of Christine Chandler um so. 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:34.280 Christine says that after speaking her first word at two 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:38.000 months old, she did not say another word for six years. Um. 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:41.840 She does have autism. The medical papers are available online 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:44.440 a ton of her She has posted a ton of 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:46.600 like her papers. But she gets into these like online 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:48.920 arguments and we'll like post things to prove stuff she's saying, 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:51.560 so that that is this is not a case of 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:53.760 like a self diagnosis to someone who has like a 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:56.560 medical diagnosis, and that part is credible. The idea that 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:58.960 maybe she didn't say anything until she was six. It 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.760 is not uncommon for people with autism to have kind 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:05.760 of a delay of like when they start speaking, when 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:07.800 they're kind of language abilities come in and stuff. You know, 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:12.440 that's that's not an uncommon thing. Um. Now, obviously we're 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:15.920 not particularly good as a society at taking care of 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:20.720 autistic children now, um or any children, but particularly children 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:23.240 with autism. UM in the mid nineteen eighties were the 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.600 fucking wild West for that, Like, it was just an 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:30.720 incredibly brutal time to to be a kid with autism. 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:32.480 It was not even added to the d s M 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:35.680 until nineteen eighty. It was not until nineteen eight seven 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:38.960 that the diagnostic criteria was expanded to allow a diagnosis 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.520 if symptoms became apparent after thirty months of age, and 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:44.600 most kids are over two years old when they are diagnosed. 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:49.120 So a lot of yeah, funked up stuff kids are 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:51.960 dealing with who are born around the time that Christina 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:55.600 is now The papers that we have showing a diagnosis 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:58.240 for her are from two thousand four. She claims to 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:00.240 have been diagnosed for the first time at around age 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:03.000 five or six. If so, this would have happened right 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:05.600 around the earliest time that such a diagnosis would have 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:08.880 been possible. Christine claims the doctor who diagnosed her was 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:12.720 a speech therapist at James Madison University. This doctor told 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:14.920 her parents she had high functioning, which is not a 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:18.160 term we use anymore autism uh, and would never make 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:20.160 it to high school or even be able to write 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:22.440 her own name. And of course Christine went on to 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:25.360 do both of these things. I don't know how accurate 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:27.240 that is, but it's certainly not out of line with 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:29.480 other stories you hear from kids who were, you know, 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:34.520 going through the education system with this at the same time. So, 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:37.600 when Christine was very young, she was placed alone with 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:41.560 a babysitter she describes as abusive UM. The specific abuse 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:44.920 she discusses as being locked in her toy room after 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:48.080 having all of the lights turned off. UM. As an adult, 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:52.240 she consistently describes this experience as traumatic. Her parents continued 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:55.720 to use the babysitter after this point. UM. Christine believed 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:57.880 this is what gave her autism, which obviously is not 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:02.560 the case. Um, but I believe she had some traumatic 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:05.840 experiences with an adult's locking her away, you know, and 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:10.960 and stuff. Um. So in nineteen ninety to nineteen one 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:13.440 school year, Christine's parents pulled her out of class for 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:17.240 unknown reasons. She claims now that she was forcibly restrained 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:20.440 by the school principle in a quasi sexual manner. She 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.240 also claims the principle was homosexual and that this is 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:27.520 what inspired Christine's decades long homophobia. Um, it is unclear 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:32.480 exactly what happened here. Um. Christine is very Christian and 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:35.320 very has been was for most of the time she 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:39.800 was people knew anything about her. Incredibly bigoted against gay people. 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:42.880 So hard to say if this is like what happened 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:46.640 here exactly. But there was apparently a court case over 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:49.240 the matter. However, the actual court case that we have 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:52.120 documentation on was not based in any sort of assault 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:54.920 and was instead the county trying to have Christine sent 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:57.960 to a special school. So some of what she's saying 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:00.480 may have just been resentment over this whole things she 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:03.040 was going through with the school. It is very hard 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:07.040 to say, Um, Christine was homeschooled during the fifth grade 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:10.480 because of all of this whatever actually happened, she was 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:14.400 being homeschooled for a year. Um. The family eventually left 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:17.359 their hometown and relocated to Richmond over this issue. In 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:21.600 when Christine was eleven, she entered a Sonic the Hedgehog 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:25.199 contest at KB Toys and won a shopping spree. Local 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:30.600 news coverage. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's actually video footage of Yeah, yeah, 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:33.600 the kind of thing that when I was eleven, I 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:36.280 probably would have made up that I had done. No, no, 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:41.520 we know this happened. Yeah, and there was like, yeah, 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:43.280 it's every I mean, who wouldn't have wanted a KB 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:47.520 Toy shopping spree like and have one Sonic the Hedgehog 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:51.040 and and have Yeah, I want a Sonic the Hedgehog contest, 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:54.359 the coolest kind of contest. Yeah, there's video this that's awesome. 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:57.680 And unfortunately the videos mostly like it's mostly people making 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:01.040 fun of her because she's you know, kind like an awkward, 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:04.480 nerdy kid winning a contest and very excited and very happy. 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:07.560 But she's clearly overjoyed in the footage, which is which 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:10.280 is great. It's nice to know she had a nice 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:13.639 moment in her life. This seems to have sparked a 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:17.240 lifelong fascination with Sonic the Hedgehog. She will be obsessed 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:19.439 with Sonic for the rest of her life up to 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:23.400 the present day, to a degree that becomes very problematic. Um, 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:27.520 and I think it's I'm gonna find out later, aren't I. Yeah, 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:30.520 it's it's not great. It's not great. I think maybe 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:32.040 it has something to do with the fact that, like, 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:35.600 in a really difficult and largely unpleasant childhood, this is 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:37.719 like a shining moment for her, and so she kind 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:42.119 of latches on to this. Yeah, it's pretty bleak, Margaret, 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:45.399 there's not gonna be a lot of happy moments. Kind 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:49.320 of heartbreaking because she's a very easy self insert character. 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:52.880 Oh god, at this point, she's nothing but a kid 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:57.879 who's been unfairly harmed by every single person who should 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:03.680 be taking care of her. Yeah. Yeah, Um it's pretty bad. Uh, 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:06.800 it's pretty bad. So in middle school, Uh, this will 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:09.280 be the least surprising thing we say today, Christine had 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:15.240 difficulty with bullies. Um yeah, not not super surprising. And 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:18.280 it was you know that she has, for I think 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:22.480 understandable reasons a really really really aggressive temper, and the 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:25.040 particular way that kids would funk with her was by 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:27.240 setting her off so that she would have these kind 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:30.920 of emotional explosions and then she would get in trouble. Um. 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:33.800 You know, I think if we haven't been that person 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:36.719 in our childhoods, we knew a couple of kids who 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:39.120 were dealing with versions of that. The only kid who 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:40.639 was worse bullied than me, It was the one that 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:43.680 you could set off like that. You know. Yeah. Yeah, 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:46.320 you either like react that way to try to scare 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:50.359 people off, or you develop the ability to just kind 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:55.239 of turtle up and pretend you're not affected by it 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:59.440 at all. Yeah. Um. And and Christine, you know, is 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:01.840 the explode of type. She did have a very good 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:04.720 teacher during this time who actually understood her and was 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:07.160 able to help her get along in class with other kids. 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:10.080 When she graduated middle school, this teacher wrote her a 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:12.600 note and again the note like Christine posts the note 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:15.080 later like this is the thing that we like. You 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:18.000 can see it, um, And the note says, quote, the 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:20.280 most important parting words I can leave you with well 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:22.760 are to always remember this. You show people where your 0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:24.679 weak points are located. Then they will know how to 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:26.760 push your button. If you never show them, they will 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:30.640 never know. That's this teacher's advice, which I can't say 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:34.760 is bad advice. Um no, yeah, you gotta be like 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:38.240 next level to like. Um, I wouldn't have been able 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:40.240 to do as a teenager. But you know, my favorite 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:42.520 trick is pretending to show people where my weak spots 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:45.119 are and then just being like, just kidding, I'm completely intouchable. 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:49.000 Fuck you. Yeah, but that doesn't like showing your belly 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:52.959 doesn't work in middle school. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:55.760 All of the anti bullying advice I ever got was 0:20:56.080 --> 0:21:00.400 entirely garbage. I I have. I have literally never heard 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:02.679 good advice for kids of that age on how to 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:07.840 deal with bullying, and I don't think it exists. Uh yeah, 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:11.960 I think the only actual thing to do is stop 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:18.240 kids from bullying. Yeah yeah, kind of on everyone but 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:21.480 the child in that situation to figure out how to 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:28.679 deal with it. Yeah. Um, I don't know. Yeah, you 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:37.320 know who doesn't bully? I don't feel confident answering this 0:21:37.520 --> 0:21:40.520 right now, am I not? I mean, I mean, you can, 0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:47.320 but I'm just horrible transition. Look when kidnaps children and 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:49.720 puts them on an island off the coast of Indonesia 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:52.480 to be hunted by the global one percent. I say, 0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:56.120 bullying gets censored. Yeah, I mean maybe we're we're kind 0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:58.000 of like half and half on it. Oh no, I'm 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:02.480 saying that get censor when I yeah, absolutely, yeah, we 0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:05.760 can bleep him this time. Yeah. So obviously it's not 0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:08.719 bullying to hunt children for sport on an island off 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:10.840 the coast of Indonesia. That's just you know, it's not 0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:12.760