1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: We love your plants, Sofie, everyone loves your plant listeners. 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 1: People on the internet find Sophie on Twitter and tell 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: her you like her plant. It's a raven z eazy 4 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: and it brings me so much happiness. It does. It's plant. 5 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: It's a good plant. It seems very goth. It's like 6 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: that song What's Something Goth? The Black Parade? That song 7 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:25,279 Speaker 1: was pretty goth right from from when when I was 8 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: in high school. That seems go. Yeah, it was like that, Margaret, 9 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: I'm not laughing at your choice? How you doing my choice? 10 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: That was just like the one song when I think 11 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: about like goth stuff from high school, that was a song. 12 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: That's the only thing I remember. You know, I actually 13 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: have culture. Yeah, as soon as I left high school, 14 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: I did not notice a pop culture for ten years 15 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: um and I was way too elite of a goth 16 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: at that time to do be even listening to God 17 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: from my own era. I was far more interested Sisters 18 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: of Mercy. I've never even heard of that, But I 19 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 1: was never gone. I was never into that stuff. I 20 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: was just adjacent to it. Because the goth kids were 21 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: also the kids you were most likely to be able 22 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: to play d and D with so yes, yeah, that's 23 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: that's how I caught. So this is Behind the Bastards 24 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,479 Speaker 1: and we're here with Margaret Killjoy. This is a podcast 25 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: about people you can play D and D with when 26 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: you are in high school, like Margaret Eldritch from Sisters 27 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: of Mercy. Yeah, pretty good DN D person. I wish, 28 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: I mean, yes, yes, Margaret, how do you feel about like, 29 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: what is the fifth edition versus I'm still a path finder? 30 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: You know, path finder guy? Like I never got past 31 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 1: three five. It gave me everything I wanted in terms 32 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: of rules. I actually like five five more than three 33 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: point five. I wasn't expecting that to be the case. 34 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: I thought three point five felt done and then fourth 35 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: edition was obviously a nightmare. And um, I started playing 36 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: five E and it's my favorite Dungeons and Drag and 37 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: I can elitistly claim to be playing since uh a 38 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: D and D. Yeah, that was my first generation was 39 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: a D and D. I do remember thack. Oh by 40 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: the way, this is also again behind the Bastards and 41 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: we're here. What do we? What do we? What is 42 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: our what is our job? Here? Are we not talking 43 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: about D and D? Not not today alright? But with 44 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 1: what we are talking with, Margaret Coo, who who is 45 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 1: the newest person on our network, Cool Zone Media. That's right, 46 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: that's right. We have we have contractually locked you in 47 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: um to producing content and entering the death spiral of 48 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: content creation for podcasts. I was I was going to say, 49 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: I'm really thrilled and very happy, but okay, I'm always 50 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: going to call it a death spiral because it is. Um, Margaret, 51 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: how are you liking the spiral? You know, all of 52 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: life is a death spiral. That's right, that's right. Just 53 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: you choose which spiral to to go down. Yeah. It's 54 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,519 Speaker 1: like a water park, yeah yeah, or a toilet Yeah, 55 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: I mean toilets and water parks very similar in a 56 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 1: number of ways. Um. So yeah, well we'll move on. 57 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: Um Margaret, how do you feel about people being harassed 58 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 1: by the internet until the commit suicide? Generally negative? Yeah, 59 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: that was a bad Yeah, that's not my not my 60 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 1: favorite thing that's ever happened. It's not. It's like it's 61 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: really I think at this point everyone here has seen 62 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: what happens when people come into the crosshairs of a 63 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: digital hate mop, right, Like it's like a daily occurrence 64 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 1: on the Internet now and yeah, so I think there 65 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: is kind of some resilience that's been built up, like 66 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: like we've all kind of been vaccinated from gamer Gates, 67 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: So I think maybe people are a little more prepared 68 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: for it now than they used to be. But if 69 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: you remember like gamer Gate times, especially to fourteen, when 70 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: these mobs started going after these women who were like 71 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: video game reviewers and stuff and how like, it felt 72 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: really unprecedented and it was just like this this bizarre, 73 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: horrible thing that we all started to realize was going 74 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: to be with us forever. Um. Yeah, it's it's it's 75 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: it's a problem, um and it's a problem that has 76 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: uh continues on. Like it's one of those things normally, 77 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: like people talk pretty openly about like, oh, who's the 78 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: main character on Twitter today? You know, who's being like 79 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: harassed or whatever today. But there's like and that's kind 80 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: of the side of it, I guess when I'm talking 81 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 1: about like that there's been some kind of immunity built up. 82 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: That's the side of it where there's like, oh, yeah, 83 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: you just know that like every now and then, if 84 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: you have any kind of prominence on the internet, you know, 85 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: you could wind up getting like yelled at or made 86 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 1: fun of or whatever for a period of time. And 87 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: that's just something, especially if you're gonna be making things 88 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 1: for the Internet, you just accept it. Um. But even 89 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: though it's gotten a little more standardized, there's this really 90 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:05,039 Speaker 1: tremendously deadly underbelly to it um. Up until June of 91 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: Near was a well loved developer of emulators. Uh Near, 92 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: also known as bu b y Uu, was non binary 93 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: as well as autistic. These characteristics made them an ideal 94 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 1: target of a website called Kiwi Farms. Do you know 95 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 1: anything about Kiwi Farms, Margaret, No, This sounds like the 96 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: kind of nightmare stuff that I've avoided successfully until this moment. 97 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: That's a good thing to do. It's a good thing 98 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: to avoid. Um. In brief, Kiwi Farms is a forum 99 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: where people gather information on and harass individuals they call 100 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: loll cows um. The name comes from the fact that 101 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,479 Speaker 1: the behavior of these people, specifically their reactions to harassment, 102 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: provide an endless font of lolls, like a cow provides milk. Right, 103 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: That's why they That's how they're looking at this, Like 104 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: we have this like stable of people who we can 105 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: kind of prod and poke intermittently to like make us laugh. Um, 106 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: that's the attit. Yeah, it's yeah, it's it sounds good. 107 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: It sounds like a lot of people who are doing 108 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 1: well in life and emotionally. So one of Near's friends 109 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 1: wrote a Google doc explaining what Kiwi Farms did to Near, 110 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:10,559 Speaker 1: who seems to have been targeted for the same reason. 111 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: Predators usually picked their targets um Near. He had been 112 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 1: abused before, Um, and they were seen as kind of 113 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: vulnerable quote and this is from from one of their friends. 114 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: Not to be defeated. In their pursuit of utter emotional 115 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: and psychological destruction, they went after who Near treasured most 116 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: their friends, doxing some directly, harassing others, and even specifically 117 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: seeking out supicidal people to target. That broke Near after 118 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: falling down a spiral of depression and eventually breaking off 119 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: contact with everyone last year, I feared for the worst. Eventually, 120 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: they were luckily able to get help and found medication 121 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: that helped them cope with the psychological scarce of abuse 122 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: in late I first heard from Near again in late October, 123 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: and we even started having chats. It seemed things were 124 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: getting better. Unfortunately, medication can be a fickle beast. It 125 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 1: didn't work forever. The looming threat of Kiwi Farms, of 126 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 1: their power to destroy not just Near but also their friends, 127 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: caused them daily anxiety that just wouldn't go away. Worried 128 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 1: that their friends would feel burdened by their condition again, 129 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 1: Near decided to avoid the subject. I only found out 130 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: about this relapse today. To the people of Kiwi Farms, 131 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: this is a video game that people on the other 132 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: side of the screen or real makes no difference that 133 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: a light in the kill counter going up just like 134 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: an FPS player would. Lacking any empathy, they have no 135 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: regard for the damage they inflict on others. So as 136 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: you might have guessed Near committed suicide in June, of 137 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: Kiwi Farms did not have any anything to do with 138 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: the suicide or of encouraging harassment against Near. Um it's 139 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: worth noting that Near is the third person in recent 140 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: years whose suicide has been blamed to some extent on 141 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: relentless harassment from Kiwi Farms. So today we're going to 142 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: talk about where Kiwi Farms comes from. Um, they're not 143 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: the primary subject of our episode, though, we will be 144 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: talking about their very first victim, and and not just 145 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: their very first victim we're going to be talking about 146 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: the person I think is probably the first victim of 147 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: concerted online harassment, like the first person that this happened 148 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: to in any kind of sizeable way. Um. And that 149 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: person is a I guess you'd call them an internet 150 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: content creator named Chris Chan um, or at least that's 151 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: the name she kind of has picked for herself, the 152 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: first the first victim of like gamified abuse and cool. Yeah, yeah, 153 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: do you know what anything about this person? I know, 154 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: I don't. I know a lot about people harassing people 155 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: on the Internet and it causing real life impacts and 156 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: bomb threats and docks and all that stuff. So Chris 157 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: Chan is where that playbook started getting sketched out for 158 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: the first time. Christian has been kind of continuously harassed 159 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: for something like twenty years now. Uh it is. It 160 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: has been going on a tremendously long time. And and 161 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: I should note Christian is not a good person, um, 162 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: and not a sympathetic person like they are to blame 163 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: for not the harassment, but for a lot of the 164 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: unpleasantness in their life because they've made a lot of 165 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: horrible choices. UM. I should note here that recently, since 166 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: about and we'll get into this. Christian identifies as Christine 167 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: as well as Christian. They still use both names, um, 168 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: but they identify as Christine Christina. They have transitioned. UM 169 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: will be gendering her properly, even when we discuss her 170 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: early life, and when I read quotes from other people 171 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: talking about her, I'm going to do h my best 172 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 1: to not miss gender her. Even when they do. We 173 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: will still call her Christian as well as Christine, because again, 174 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: she still identifies as Christian on social media. So I 175 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: think that's fine. Um, But yeah, so UM. She was 176 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: born on Christine Chandler was born on February night two 177 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: at Martha Jefferson Hospital in Charlottesville, Virginia. Her father, Bob, 178 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: worked as an engineer at Western Electric. He was apparently 179 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: a very gifted one, and he held patents for nine 180 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: different inventions over the course of his career. He collected 181 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 1: classic jazz music and stamps. Her mother, Barbara, was a 182 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 1: secretary at Virginia p Hour. She and Bob both had 183 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: estranged children from other marriages prior to getting together. Barbara 184 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: is alleged to have been abusive, and we know her 185 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: seventeen year old son I think emancipated himself before Christine 186 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: was born. Um, Bob had two kids who are not 187 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: really in his in his life. So both of these 188 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: people had like we're fairly old when they had Christine, um, 189 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: and had kids that they had kind of either abandoned 190 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: or who had been like I don't want anything to 191 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: do with you. So maybe not great parents. Probably not. 192 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: I don't know everything about their circumstances, but you know, 193 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: like if you have three kids off you and none 194 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: of them wanted anything to do with you, that's maybe 195 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 1: not the best side. Best side. Um, Barbara was and 196 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,119 Speaker 1: is she is still alive, a massive hoarder. Um. Christine's 197 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: childhood was always going to be challenging. You know, this 198 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: is a lot already we've discussed a significant amount to 199 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: kind of go into as a baby. Um. At one point, 200 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: Bob built a workshop for him and his to make 201 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: things in together. He was very excited about, like, oh, 202 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna we're gonna have all these projects together. 203 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: And they never got to use it because Barbara just 204 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 1: like filled it up with junk. She just is this 205 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: kind of like that kind of breaks my heart. Yeah, 206 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: father daughter crafting time. Yeah Yeah, but but Barbara just 207 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: like can't not collect ship um, which is a thing 208 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: that Christine will inherit um inherent maybe the wrong word, 209 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: but we'll wind up doing as well, you know. Um. 210 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: Christine claimed years later that she spoke her first word 211 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: monkey at two months old, which is likely not possible. 212 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,959 Speaker 1: She lies a lot about things, you know, she makes 213 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 1: up a lot of stuff. Um, I don't think kids 214 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: can say, uh, speak at that at that earliest date. 215 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: And I've known a couple of two month olds and sure, 216 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: and they're so familiar with the concept of monkey that 217 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: also they can random noises. Yeah, they like, I don't know, 218 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:58,079 Speaker 1: I'm not an expert in child speech development, but well 219 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 1: I am, And no I'm not. Well that's your previous 220 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 1: job before this. Yeah, I'm an expert at ship talking 221 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:06,599 Speaker 1: little kids because they can't talk back, they don't know 222 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 1: how to talk. It's real easy. Does that mean you 223 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,079 Speaker 1: use up your one lie on them? Like right away? Yeah, 224 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: immediately immediately, But you just have to keep it going 225 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: for the rest of your life. I did have. I 226 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: had a person who I'm very close to, their uncle. 227 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: The lie that he told her was that Star Trek 228 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: the next generation was real m she was like six 229 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 1: and then yeah, which is a nice lie. I think 230 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 1: if you get to believe for a while that all 231 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: those people are really up there, that's not a mean one. 232 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: I actually might prefer that to Santa Claus. Yeah, it's 233 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: just like the little kids the start that the starship 234 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: enterprises out there, and then at age ten you sit 235 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: them down and tell them that there's no joy in 236 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: the world, and yeah, they have to they have to. 237 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: There's no replicators. Yeah, there's nothing sorry, um that would 238 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: break kids in an interesting new way. Yeah. Yeah, that's 239 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: what we need more of. Yeah, well you gotta break 240 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,559 Speaker 1: them some way, right, That's what we do to kids, 241 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:18,719 Speaker 1: do you That's what we do. Therefore, apparently, Sophie, I 242 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: don't know, I don't have kids, because it seems like 243 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: it's easy to funk that up. Um so um. Speaking 244 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: of which, back to our story of Christine Chandler um so. 245 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: Christine says that after speaking her first word at two 246 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: months old, she did not say another word for six years. Um. 247 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: She does have autism. The medical papers are available online 248 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: a ton of her She has posted a ton of 249 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: like her papers. But she gets into these like online 250 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: arguments and we'll like post things to prove stuff she's saying, 251 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 1: so that that is this is not a case of 252 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: like a self diagnosis to someone who has like a 253 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 1: medical diagnosis, and that part is credible. The idea that 254 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 1: maybe she didn't say anything until she was six. It 255 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: is not uncommon for people with autism to have kind 256 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: of a delay of like when they start speaking, when 257 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: they're kind of language abilities come in and stuff. You know, 258 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: that's that's not an uncommon thing. Um. Now, obviously we're 259 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: not particularly good as a society at taking care of 260 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: autistic children now, um or any children, but particularly children 261 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: with autism. UM in the mid nineteen eighties were the 262 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: fucking wild West for that, Like, it was just an 263 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: incredibly brutal time to to be a kid with autism. 264 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: It was not even added to the d s M 265 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: until nineteen eighty. It was not until nineteen eight seven 266 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: that the diagnostic criteria was expanded to allow a diagnosis 267 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: if symptoms became apparent after thirty months of age, and 268 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: most kids are over two years old when they are diagnosed. 269 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: So a lot of yeah, funked up stuff kids are 270 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: dealing with who are born around the time that Christina 271 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: is now The papers that we have showing a diagnosis 272 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: for her are from two thousand four. She claims to 273 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: have been diagnosed for the first time at around age 274 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: five or six. If so, this would have happened right 275 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: around the earliest time that such a diagnosis would have 276 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: been possible. Christine claims the doctor who diagnosed her was 277 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: a speech therapist at James Madison University. This doctor told 278 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: her parents she had high functioning, which is not a 279 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: term we use anymore autism uh, and would never make 280 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: it to high school or even be able to write 281 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: her own name. And of course Christine went on to 282 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: do both of these things. I don't know how accurate 283 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: that is, but it's certainly not out of line with 284 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: other stories you hear from kids who were, you know, 285 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: going through the education system with this at the same time. So, 286 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: when Christine was very young, she was placed alone with 287 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: a babysitter she describes as abusive UM. The specific abuse 288 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: she discusses as being locked in her toy room after 289 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: having all of the lights turned off. UM. As an adult, 290 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: she consistently describes this experience as traumatic. Her parents continued 291 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: to use the babysitter after this point. UM. Christine believed 292 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: this is what gave her autism, which obviously is not 293 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: the case. Um, but I believe she had some traumatic 294 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: experiences with an adult's locking her away, you know, and 295 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: and stuff. Um. So in nineteen ninety to nineteen one 296 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: school year, Christine's parents pulled her out of class for 297 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: unknown reasons. She claims now that she was forcibly restrained 298 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: by the school principle in a quasi sexual manner. She 299 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: also claims the principle was homosexual and that this is 300 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: what inspired Christine's decades long homophobia. Um, it is unclear 301 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: exactly what happened here. Um. Christine is very Christian and 302 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 1: very has been was for most of the time she 303 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: was people knew anything about her. Incredibly bigoted against gay people. 304 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: So hard to say if this is like what happened 305 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: here exactly. But there was apparently a court case over 306 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: the matter. However, the actual court case that we have 307 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: documentation on was not based in any sort of assault 308 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 1: and was instead the county trying to have Christine sent 309 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: to a special school. So some of what she's saying 310 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: may have just been resentment over this whole things she 311 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: was going through with the school. It is very hard 312 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: to say, Um, Christine was homeschooled during the fifth grade 313 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: because of all of this whatever actually happened, she was 314 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 1: being homeschooled for a year. Um. The family eventually left 315 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 1: their hometown and relocated to Richmond over this issue. In 316 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: when Christine was eleven, she entered a Sonic the Hedgehog 317 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 1: contest at KB Toys and won a shopping spree. Local 318 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: news coverage. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's actually video footage of Yeah, yeah, 319 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: the kind of thing that when I was eleven, I 320 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: probably would have made up that I had done. No, no, 321 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: we know this happened. Yeah, and there was like, yeah, 322 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: it's every I mean, who wouldn't have wanted a KB 323 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: Toy shopping spree like and have one Sonic the Hedgehog 324 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: and and have Yeah, I want a Sonic the Hedgehog contest, 325 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 1: the coolest kind of contest. Yeah, there's video this that's awesome. 326 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 1: And unfortunately the videos mostly like it's mostly people making 327 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: fun of her because she's you know, kind like an awkward, 328 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: nerdy kid winning a contest and very excited and very happy. 329 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: But she's clearly overjoyed in the footage, which is which 330 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: is great. It's nice to know she had a nice 331 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 1: moment in her life. This seems to have sparked a 332 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: lifelong fascination with Sonic the Hedgehog. She will be obsessed 333 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:19,439 Speaker 1: with Sonic for the rest of her life up to 334 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 1: the present day, to a degree that becomes very problematic. Um, 335 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: and I think it's I'm gonna find out later, aren't I. Yeah, 336 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: it's it's not great. It's not great. I think maybe 337 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: it has something to do with the fact that, like, 338 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: in a really difficult and largely unpleasant childhood, this is 339 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:37,719 Speaker 1: like a shining moment for her, and so she kind 340 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 1: of latches on to this. Yeah, it's pretty bleak, Margaret, 341 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 1: there's not gonna be a lot of happy moments. Kind 342 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: of heartbreaking because she's a very easy self insert character. 343 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,880 Speaker 1: Oh god, at this point, she's nothing but a kid 344 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 1: who's been unfairly harmed by every single person who should 345 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 1: be taking care of her. Yeah. Yeah, Um it's pretty bad. Uh, 346 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: it's pretty bad. So in middle school, Uh, this will 347 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: be the least surprising thing we say today, Christine had 348 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: difficulty with bullies. Um yeah, not not super surprising. And 349 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: it was you know that she has, for I think 350 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: understandable reasons a really really really aggressive temper, and the 351 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: particular way that kids would funk with her was by 352 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: setting her off so that she would have these kind 353 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 1: of emotional explosions and then she would get in trouble. Um. 354 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: You know, I think if we haven't been that person 355 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,719 Speaker 1: in our childhoods, we knew a couple of kids who 356 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,120 Speaker 1: were dealing with versions of that. The only kid who 357 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 1: was worse bullied than me, It was the one that 358 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 1: you could set off like that. You know. Yeah. Yeah, 359 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: you either like react that way to try to scare 360 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: people off, or you develop the ability to just kind 361 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:55,239 Speaker 1: of turtle up and pretend you're not affected by it 362 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 1: at all. Yeah. Um. And and Christine, you know, is 363 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: the explode of type. She did have a very good 364 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: teacher during this time who actually understood her and was 365 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 1: able to help her get along in class with other kids. 366 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: When she graduated middle school, this teacher wrote her a 367 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: note and again the note like Christine posts the note 368 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: later like this is the thing that we like. You 369 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: can see it, um, And the note says, quote, the 370 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: most important parting words I can leave you with well 371 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: are to always remember this. You show people where your 372 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:24,679 Speaker 1: weak points are located. Then they will know how to 373 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: push your button. If you never show them, they will 374 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,640 Speaker 1: never know. That's this teacher's advice, which I can't say 375 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: is bad advice. Um no, yeah, you gotta be like 376 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: next level to like. Um, I wouldn't have been able 377 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: to do as a teenager. But you know, my favorite 378 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: trick is pretending to show people where my weak spots 379 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 1: are and then just being like, just kidding, I'm completely intouchable. 380 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: Fuck you. Yeah, but that doesn't like showing your belly 381 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,959 Speaker 1: doesn't work in middle school. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. 382 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: All of the anti bullying advice I ever got was 383 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:00,400 Speaker 1: entirely garbage. I I have. I have literally never heard 384 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:02,679 Speaker 1: good advice for kids of that age on how to 385 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: deal with bullying, and I don't think it exists. Uh yeah, 386 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: I think the only actual thing to do is stop 387 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: kids from bullying. Yeah yeah, kind of on everyone but 388 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 1: the child in that situation to figure out how to 389 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:28,679 Speaker 1: deal with it. Yeah. Um, I don't know. Yeah, you 390 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: know who doesn't bully? I don't feel confident answering this 391 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: right now, am I not? I mean, I mean, you can, 392 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: but I'm just horrible transition. Look when kidnaps children and 393 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: puts them on an island off the coast of Indonesia 394 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: to be hunted by the global one percent. I say, 395 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:56,120 Speaker 1: bullying gets censored. Yeah, I mean maybe we're we're kind 396 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: of like half and half on it. Oh no, I'm 397 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: saying that get censor when I yeah, absolutely, yeah, we 398 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: can bleep him this time. Yeah. So obviously it's not 399 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,719 Speaker 1: bullying to hunt children for sport on an island off 400 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: the coast of Indonesia. That's just you know, it's not 401 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: like it's not bullying to hunt a deer. You know, 402 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: it's just well, if you're hunting children for food, I 403 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: feel like there's a different set of ethics there. I mean, 404 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: elon musk is definitely like a use every part of 405 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: of of the child that you hunt with a bow 406 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:33,159 Speaker 1: of Probably it's like, I take it back, hunting for 407 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 1: sport is better. Yeah, just be evil, Just admit your evil. 408 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: It's better. Yeah. Speaking of admitting, no, I mean just like, ah, 409 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: we're back, boy, howdy. Lots of good stuff has happen, 410 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: name good, real real bad stuff. This is this is 411 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: I think this is. I would not go into detail 412 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: about someone experiencing something like this if it was not 413 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: kind of necessary for understanding the whole story of like 414 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: why they become the person that this architecture of harassment 415 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: gets built around. Um. And so unfortunately it is kind 416 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: of necessary, although it is quite bleak. UM. Part of 417 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 1: why I feel a little better about saying it is 418 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: that we know most of this because Christine has like 419 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: repeatedly posted it and discussed it and like provided original documents. Um. 420 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: So this is which is going exactly against the teacher's advice. 421 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: Oh god, yeah they be. She does not take one 422 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 1: one bit of this advice. Um, which you know anyway. Yeah, 423 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 1: so Christine had a number of female friends as a child. 424 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: Uh some of them were subtly abusive. Um. One early 425 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 1: friend who lived nearby convinced her to crawl under the 426 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 1: house into a heating duct and then locked her inside. Um. 427 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: Because Christine, again this is pre transition and stuff, and 428 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:11,239 Speaker 1: is she's really desperate to be like to have like 429 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 1: a girlfriend basically, um, to date or to be one 430 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 1: of the girls I think to date to date, because 431 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,120 Speaker 1: I mean maybe there is some of that, Like it's 432 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: I'll say that as a as a trans girl who 433 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: dates mostly mostly women. It's blurry, Yeah, the desire to 434 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 1: be one of the girls and to date the girls 435 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: is all confused up. Yeah, and I think at this 436 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: period it is really blurry, because she definitely really takes 437 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,479 Speaker 1: a lot of particular joy in hanging out with like 438 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,920 Speaker 1: groups of girls at the school. And some of it's 439 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 1: also probably just that, like they're less likely to the 440 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 1: extent that they make fun of her or harass her. 441 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 1: It's like not obvious in the way that like when 442 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: boys do it, like she knows what's being done. It's 443 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: clear that someone's attacking her. And I guess if you 444 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: don't know that people are like making fun of you, 445 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 1: that's a more pleasant situation than knowing. Yeah, until you 446 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: find out, right, like until the kid, until you get 447 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: locked in a heating duct. Yeah, it's very sad. Um. 448 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: She revealed later that she had another female friend who 449 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: her father paid to hang out with her in order 450 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: to make her look normal. Um, which is boy again 451 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: Parents of the Year here, like tried. Yeah, Yeah, it's 452 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: not how he should have tried. It's not how he 453 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 1: should have tried. I don't know, Like it's it's he 454 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 1: seems like he's kind of like a weird engineering dude 455 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,120 Speaker 1: who was not at all prepared to have a kid 456 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: with the kind of needs that Christine had. And yeah, 457 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: I guess he tried. He tried to solve it like 458 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: an engineering problem. Yeah. Yeah. Um that said, you know, 459 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 1: there's a lot of kind of mockery, but I think 460 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: it does seem like Christine had actual friends, um, who 461 00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: she called her Gallo pals, and some of them did 462 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,239 Speaker 1: care about her. Um. And I think there were there 463 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,120 Speaker 1: were some who kind of recognized that she's being victimized 464 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 1: and wanted to provide her with some support. UM. So 465 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,119 Speaker 1: in high school she does kind of build a little 466 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,399 Speaker 1: community for herself. UM. It was in high school that 467 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 1: that Christine started developing an increasingly elaborate fantasy world. This 468 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: started with a school project where she had to create 469 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 1: cartoon characters for a story. The characters couldn't be copyrighted, 470 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,360 Speaker 1: so she merged some of her favorite characters together, creating 471 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: a mix of Sonic and Pikachu called sona Chew. She 472 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 1: fell in love with this character and started incorporating it 473 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: into a variety of cartoon art that she seemed to 474 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: create almost like kind of compulsively. Um. Christine graduated around 475 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,199 Speaker 1: two thousand and this seems to have been the beginning 476 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: of a long downward slide for her. The group of 477 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 1: friends she'd made in high school went their separate ways. 478 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: Christine went to a local community college and started studying, 479 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 1: but she grew increasingly lonely and aware of the fact 480 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: that other people were partnering off. In her idiosyncratic diction, 481 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:04,199 Speaker 1: Chris calls this her love quest dedicated to finding a sweetheart. 482 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: As she started flirting with women, she found out that 483 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,880 Speaker 1: they all had boyfriends. As a result, Christine became obsessed 484 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 1: with what she called the quote infinitely high boyfriend factor. 485 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: She grew terrified of being confronted by the boyfriends of 486 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,400 Speaker 1: girls that she flirted with, and decided to instead create 487 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,880 Speaker 1: a special method to flirt only with boyfriend free girls. 488 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,199 Speaker 1: This is like the addiction she uses to discuss this. 489 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: The end result of this idea was a sign that 490 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: Christine created and would carry out in public that said, 491 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: I am a twenty one year old single male seeking 492 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: an eighteen to twenty one year old single female companion. 493 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: This is like a sign that she will walk around 494 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: with it like school and stuff. Um other Yeah, it's 495 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,680 Speaker 1: it's an interesting call. Other variations of the sign read 496 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: I am seeking a boyfriend free girl. Um, and you 497 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: get like the logic here, like she doesn't want to 498 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,679 Speaker 1: upset anybody, but she's very, very lonely, and so in 499 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: her mind, this is the logical way to go about 500 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,479 Speaker 1: doing that. Right. Yeah, I wish better dating advice had 501 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 1: been made available to her. Yeah, I do. You also 502 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 1: have to wonder if like online dating had existed more 503 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: in its present form, would maybe that have been a 504 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: little easier or would people have just like picked out 505 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: her profile and made fun of it on Twitter? Probably 506 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: the ladder? Um. God, I'm like, I'm trying to figure 507 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: out that, Like, is it better that I got my 508 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: youth over with before the internet or is it definitely 509 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: definitely the Internet's a nightmare. Um. Christian would sit and 510 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 1: that she starts going increasingly by. Christian in this period 511 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: of time would sit around holding or standing or stand 512 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: aund holding the sign on her college campus, which did 513 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 1: not go over well. The dean ordered her to stop 514 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: doing this. Uh. She considered this behavior technically soliciting sex, 515 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: which I guess it kind of is, I mean, like 516 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: not in that way. Yeah, Like yeah, I don't know. Maybe. Yeah. Also, 517 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,959 Speaker 1: it's definitely weird. I can't say that it's like inherently 518 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: any more harmful than like the other waste people flirt 519 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: on college campuses. No, it's substantially bigger than most of 520 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 1: the things that romance and sex on college campuses. It's 521 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: not the worst way people are going about doing this 522 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: thing within the context of a community college. Yeah, if 523 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: this was like a rom com movie, she would be 524 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: a side character and then she'd feel the other really 525 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: nerdy girl and it would be another kid with a sign, 526 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: and yeah, it would be perfect. And that's the end. 527 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: Nothing bad happens from here on, and that's the end 528 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: of the show. So it's thanks for coming on and 529 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: happily ever after. That's the name of the show, right, yep. 530 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: This is the story of a weird person who everything 531 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 1: ended well for to behind the basically nice weird people. 532 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: Um a podcast that shouldn't exist. Um. So, after the 533 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: Dean shuts down her her love quest, Christine becomes obsessed 534 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: with the Dean, whose name is Mary Lee Walsh, and 535 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: starts writing the Dean into an increasingly elaborate comics as 536 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: the Bad Guys. Christine slandered the Dean via an animated 537 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: newsletter she distributed and was eventually expelled for a year. Um, 538 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: and this it's like when I say this, like a 539 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: lot of it's like weird and violent stuff happening to 540 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: this character, to this this Dean character who has the 541 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: exact name of the real Dean is like really specifically 542 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: violent stuff. Um. So you know, maybe don't email that 543 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: to random people at your college because Columbine happened. Yeah, 544 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: this is post Columbine, so yeah this. Yeah, people are 545 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: people are not like chill about that kind of thing, 546 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah. Um So Christine graduates uh in two 547 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: dozen six with an associates degree. She was briefly employed 548 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: by a Wendy's for like three months, but could not 549 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: get along with her manager or co workers, so she 550 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: fell increasingly further into her fantasy world, building an elaborate 551 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: fantasy city named after her initials, which C W C. 552 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: Bill or Quickville is usually how she'll pronounce it. And 553 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 1: she put starts putting like these drawings and stories on 554 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: her MySpace and her personal website. In October of two 555 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: thousand seven, one user of the Something Awful forums brought 556 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 1: up Christine Christian at this point do during a thread 557 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: about a separate online creator. Um During this time, goons 558 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 1: would regularly find people making things online who are like 559 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: weird or the stuff they're making is funny, bad, and 560 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: then we're just like put up threads to marvel at it. 561 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 1: Sometimes it was mean and mockering. Sometimes it was like 562 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: legitimately like amazed and fascinated. Um. You can see both 563 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: in the original thread, with people discovering Christian's peculiar art 564 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 1: style and her bizarre way of phrasing things. In short order, 565 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: a new thread was made by a goon who lived 566 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 1: in Charlottesville and claimed to have seen her around. Quote. 567 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: This person used to leave business cards at my school's library, 568 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 1: where they would hang out for hours looking for a boyfriend, 569 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 1: free girl. This is how I first learned of them. 570 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: From here, I developed something of it. It's it's it's 571 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: this is the point, right, Well, that's the thing that 572 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: that's what people start being fascinated because it's so bizarre 573 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: and like the ways of the idiosyncratic way she phrases 574 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: things is just so like you kind of have to 575 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: pay attention. It's just like so what um, And it's 576 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: like not there's a mix of like just people being 577 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: mean and people just marveling at like well that's weird, 578 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: you know, And this is a different time in the internet. 579 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: When you start making fun of someone or or even 580 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: just like common marveling at somebody on a website. The 581 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: idea is not that this is going to like bleed 582 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 1: into the real world, right right, everyone knows that. Now 583 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: this is two thousand seven, So people are just like, hey, 584 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 1: here's this website where when we see something different, we 585 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: like post it to be like, well, what's going on here? 586 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: You know? Um, some of it's mean spirited, but it's 587 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: not all means spirited. Um. So yeah, to continue that quote, 588 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: this is how I first learned of them. From here, 589 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: I developed something of an obsession, culminating last summer when 590 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: I made a special trip to a gaming store and 591 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: local hangout where they would had posted they would be 592 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: they were every bit as and then they used an 593 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 1: offensive slur for autistic people, as I had imagined. Um. So, 594 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: this is what's interesting about this is that this is 595 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 1: kind of the first piece of evidence you have, and 596 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: one of the first ones I remember from that period 597 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:21,719 Speaker 1: of time of someone not just being like, oh, look 598 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 1: at this weird person that we're like talking about on 599 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: the internet, like going to see them exactly exactly. That's 600 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 1: that's an escalation, right, It's it's like it's like a 601 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: huge violation. It's disgusting. Yeah, it's it's like a it's 602 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: a whole thing. Um that this is This is like 603 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: the first sign we get of like where things are 604 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: gonna go for the Internet. So goons which is what 605 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: you call people on the forum this time. Um quickly 606 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: fell in love with Christine, particularly the music videos that 607 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: she had posted for a perrapa the Wrapper Contest, which 608 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: is a rap video games. So she doesn't post a 609 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: video where she's doing a rap and people make fun 610 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 1: of it, right. Um. By this point, most of her 611 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,280 Speaker 1: comics focused around her quest for a boyfriend, free girl, 612 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: and included strange and unintentionally revealing sexual fantasies, along with 613 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: lines like these as the sign off on her website, enjoy, 614 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,799 Speaker 1: learn and stay straight and then in all caps, I 615 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: am serious she isn't like huh gay people? Yeah yeah, 616 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: character for everything else that's happening about her life. M 617 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,839 Speaker 1: hm that she's like deeply homophobic. Um yeah, I mean 618 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: she's you know, raised by these arch boomers. Oh yeah, 619 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 1: no totally. And it was like and has decided to 620 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,719 Speaker 1: blame homosexuality for some of the trauma or whatever. It's 621 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,919 Speaker 1: just it's just so interesting because like, other than that thing, 622 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 1: you're you're sort of describing my friend group in high school. Yeah, 623 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 1: you know, like people deeply weird who fall into their 624 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 1: own fantasy worlds and kind of interesting stuff. And sometimes 625 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,399 Speaker 1: it's really cringe e and sometimes it's really awesome, and 626 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: sometimes you can't tell which of the two is happening. 627 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 1: And yeah, but I was definitely a weird kid who 628 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 1: drew a lot of comics in high school. Yeah, um yeah, yeah, 629 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: Like there's again, everything about her is just like one 630 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: degree kind of off from a million other people, and 631 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: as a result, she winds up being a spectacle for 632 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 1: the internet, you know. Um so goons quickly latched onto 633 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: the fact that Christine had lost a PlayStation rapping contest 634 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: and made a fake winner page for herself on the website, 635 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 1: along with a somewhat unhinged rant about the injustice of 636 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,399 Speaker 1: the fact that they were the real winner or and 637 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: like so she calls the real winner the x winner 638 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,399 Speaker 1: um and accuses her of violating rules that existed only 639 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: in her own head um. She also mentioned going through 640 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 1: quote lonesome depression. Um and some goons in these original 641 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 1: threads did make a note of the fact that she 642 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: was dealing with some serious mental health issues. One user 643 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 1: called Jocomo posted, I understand that Mary Lee Walsh was 644 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 1: some sort of administrator at the community college she attended, 645 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: and that she had her expelled, But what was it 646 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 1: she did to cause that? Also? Does anyone else think 647 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 1: that a no contact order might be a good thing 648 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:12,840 Speaker 1: for her to have? I don't want any be a 649 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 1: person who says, oh, ship, she drew a picture, lock 650 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,280 Speaker 1: her up. But she does seem to have a pretty 651 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: focused animus towards her sustained over a period of time. 652 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: She seemed to have a hard time letting go. If 653 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: she sees herself as unfairly thwarted, maybe she will stick 654 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 1: with making silly videos and comics for revenge, which is 655 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,279 Speaker 1: like not an unreasonable like the degree of obsession over 656 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:34,720 Speaker 1: this person not an unreasonable like fear to have UM 657 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,440 Speaker 1: And yeah, it's it's worth noting that, like if someone 658 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 1: were on the internet doing this stuff, if you just 659 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: like suddenly became aware of someone posting and saying a 660 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 1: lot of the same things that Chris Channon was posting 661 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,880 Speaker 1: this period today, you would think they were like in 662 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: sel Adjason, Right, there's a lot of violent fantasies about 663 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,280 Speaker 1: harm coming to her enemies. There's a lot of obsession 664 00:36:54,360 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 1: with sex. Yeah it is, yeah, and it is um, 665 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: but that wasn't a thing back then. Again, it's like 666 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: two seven or so, and this is the only example 667 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: of that concern that I found. UM. Other posters did 668 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 1: note that Christine engaged in some semi stockery behavior, and 669 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 1: this is from someone who apparently lived in the area. No, 670 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,879 Speaker 1: I think they just went to the beau. She's she's show. Yeah, 671 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,879 Speaker 1: both sides of this are stalkers so far. Sure, this 672 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 1: is someone who just says that, Like I have seen 673 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:26,920 Speaker 1: her around campus. I thought she was just I just 674 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,239 Speaker 1: thought she was in an anime club or something. I 675 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,279 Speaker 1: never saw her with signs. I learned a lot more 676 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,439 Speaker 1: about her when she messaged my sister on my Space 677 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: and invited her out for a soda. She she declined, 678 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 1: and she became increasingly more harassed towards her until she 679 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 1: walked her. So, yeah, you know, that's that's where this 680 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:50,240 Speaker 1: story is going. That's right. Yeah, just be less creepy 681 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 1: and you'll do much better. That's my dating advice to one. 682 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 1: Lame listeners speaking of advice that like never helps anybody 683 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: be less creepy doesn't seem to work much either. Yeah, okay, fine, Yeah, 684 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,360 Speaker 1: I think honestly, I think both with dealing with bullies 685 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,239 Speaker 1: and not being creepy, the best thing that works is 686 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:14,799 Speaker 1: having good role models, like people that you admire, who 687 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,200 Speaker 1: like are better at handling those situations than you, that 688 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,359 Speaker 1: you then like can see like, oh that's a better 689 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,360 Speaker 1: way to do things than the way my brain is 690 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 1: telling me to do things, and then you become a 691 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,240 Speaker 1: better person. No, that's true. That's part of cognit behavioral 692 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:33,320 Speaker 1: therapy actually is modeling. Yeah, that's so, that's what everyone 693 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,319 Speaker 1: that will solve all problems figure that out. No, I'm 694 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 1: gonna crowdfund thing where we do just that and ignore 695 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,600 Speaker 1: all other possibilities for dealing with these problems, because that's 696 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: how we solve problem. It is it is actually a 697 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:47,880 Speaker 1: good solution. I'm not trying to minimize that. I'm just ye, 698 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,399 Speaker 1: all of these things are. Like, I do think part 699 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 1: of why she's having so much trouble is that her 700 00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:00,280 Speaker 1: parents seem to be completely withdrawn from the world Um, 701 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 1: you know, her dad is retired pretty early on in 702 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,719 Speaker 1: her life. Her mom is this like quarter who hides 703 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,279 Speaker 1: at home. I don't think she gets any kind of 704 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:12,920 Speaker 1: adult modeling of like how to be in the world. Yeah. Yeah, Like, 705 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 1: I don't think anyone. I don't think she has anyone 706 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,839 Speaker 1: who like she can look at and be like, oh, 707 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 1: this is like how you deal with a conflict, Like 708 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,279 Speaker 1: this is how you negotiate, like when you're having a 709 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:25,839 Speaker 1: disagreement with a person, you know, this is how you 710 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,520 Speaker 1: approach someone that you're interested in in a way that's 711 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,239 Speaker 1: like not threatening or or kind of harassing. Um, I 712 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,640 Speaker 1: don't think that exists for her at all, which doesn't 713 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 1: excuse the fact that she is now stalking people and 714 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 1: doing something like really gross ship. But it's also it's 715 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 1: hard to see how this person could have easily learned 716 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 1: like good ways to deal with stuff either. Yeah, because 717 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:49,239 Speaker 1: when your friends are in high school, you're all making 718 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,080 Speaker 1: terrible decisions and doing things terribly. But if you stay 719 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:55,759 Speaker 1: friends with them, then at some point you can be like, oh, 720 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,760 Speaker 1: that's how you date. Yeah, you know. Yeah. And also 721 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,400 Speaker 1: I think if you're like everyone's going to be a 722 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,160 Speaker 1: shitty person at a certain point in their life because 723 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,080 Speaker 1: it's hard to be a person who's not shitty. It's 724 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,319 Speaker 1: a learning process for all of us. And I think 725 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 1: the fact that Christine is going through these learning processes 726 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,759 Speaker 1: and posting everything that she is experiencing online and it 727 00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 1: is increasingly being consumed by people who are now obsessed 728 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 1: with her, makes it kind of impossible for her to 729 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,919 Speaker 1: change in positive ways. Speaking of death spirals, yeah, yeah, 730 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,759 Speaker 1: speaking of death spirals. So the thing that commenters and 731 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,040 Speaker 1: it's it's just something awful right now that's kind of 732 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,640 Speaker 1: obsessed with there. But the thing commenters are particularly delighted 733 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,560 Speaker 1: by is her Sauna Chuw medallion. This is like a 734 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:45,239 Speaker 1: medallion she's made out of some sort of like it's 735 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:46,880 Speaker 1: one of those kind of platoes that you can like 736 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 1: fire in an oven to actually harden it. She makes 737 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,279 Speaker 1: like a medallion shape like the yeah sculpe something like that. 738 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:54,880 Speaker 1: She makes a medallion shaped like the face of this 739 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,319 Speaker 1: cartoon character she's created, and she wears it everywhere, um 740 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,799 Speaker 1: generally while dressed is ash catch them from Pokemon, Like 741 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: she's like wearing specifically that outfit like the striped shirt 742 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:10,080 Speaker 1: and everything. Um, so goons are endlessly entertained by this 743 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,960 Speaker 1: um and they also find her MySpace page, which is 744 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,960 Speaker 1: filled with injuries like this. To those who are reading 745 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,080 Speaker 1: this today, I was at the new Target store across 746 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,840 Speaker 1: from Forest Lakes, just hanging around, not bothering anyone, and 747 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 1: from out of the blue, these two jerks asked me 748 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,879 Speaker 1: to leave because they said that I was loitering. I 749 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:27,800 Speaker 1: was not. I was there hoping to find an eighteen 750 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 1: to twenty three year old boyfriend free girl like I 751 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:37,240 Speaker 1: usually do. That is that is loitering. I'm pro loitering, 752 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:42,759 Speaker 1: but that is definitely loitery. Yeah. Then, from out of 753 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:44,799 Speaker 1: the blue, after I told them off, they came back 754 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,160 Speaker 1: with two cops. I was slightly intimidated, but mostly annoyed 755 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,520 Speaker 1: and ready to strike back on them. They asked me 756 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 1: to leave and never return. I did not want to leave. 757 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:54,479 Speaker 1: I would have left peacefully. In fact, I was ready 758 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:56,080 Speaker 1: to go, but I had one thing to say to them, 759 00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,080 Speaker 1: and during the middle of my speech, they chased me, 760 00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,279 Speaker 1: pulled my pants, and pinned me to the floor. As 761 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: I struggled, they handcuffed my wrists and legs, and they 762 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,120 Speaker 1: hog tied me. Not only did I feel humiliated from 763 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,000 Speaker 1: being the victim, but I was angry at them not 764 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,239 Speaker 1: only for handcuffing me, but for once again thwarting my 765 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,960 Speaker 1: efforts and trying to find a boyfriend free girl. They 766 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 1: drove me to the county jail, but fortunately they did 767 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,920 Speaker 1: not keep me there. I was released to my family. UM, 768 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:22,959 Speaker 1: so I gotta admit that's yeah, heartbreaking. Fuck the cops, uh, 769 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:27,560 Speaker 1: definitely not making the situation better. Um, And I should 770 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:31,040 Speaker 1: note that I have edited this slightly, like, for example, 771 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,439 Speaker 1: she never says cops, she calls them jerk ops. But 772 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,440 Speaker 1: and she has like different little terms like this for 773 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 1: for people that she dislikes. If you read it all 774 00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 1: this way without being completely up to date on your 775 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,560 Speaker 1: your Christian lore, it it sounds like nonsense. So I'm 776 00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,160 Speaker 1: I'm altering it somewhat for this to be understandable. But yeah, 777 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:54,960 Speaker 1: that's a blique story, right. Yeah. Like, obviously a discussion 778 00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:56,919 Speaker 1: should be had about when it is appropriate to walk 779 00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:01,240 Speaker 1: around asking random people if to have the boy boyfriend 780 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:06,000 Speaker 1: free girls. Yeah, Like that's certainly not ideal behavior. But 781 00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,480 Speaker 1: I think being tackled and hog tied is not going 782 00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 1: to make that situation any better, because she would have 783 00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,799 Speaker 1: left like she's Yeah, based on the way that her 784 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,319 Speaker 1: mental state was working, she just had to call them 785 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:19,600 Speaker 1: jerk cops probably first. And yeah, she had to like 786 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,279 Speaker 1: say some ship because she's that's kind of what's going 787 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,880 Speaker 1: on with her. But of course their cops, so obviously 788 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:33,520 Speaker 1: they use egregiously excessive force on a mentally ill person. Um. Yeah, um, 789 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:36,960 Speaker 1: you know who isn't a cop unless it's the Washington 790 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,920 Speaker 1: State Highway Patrol again advertising on the show, in which case, 791 00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:44,360 Speaker 1: definitely cops. Definitely. Do you think they do it ironically? 792 00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,120 Speaker 1: Do you think that they're just like, I don't know, 793 00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:51,280 Speaker 1: they're spending money much what they get so much of it? Yeah, 794 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:56,920 Speaker 1: it's it's really weird. Um, just like hate. Yeah, here's 795 00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,759 Speaker 1: the Washington State Highway Patrol to tell you how to 796 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:09,719 Speaker 1: bully people who can't fight back. Ah. That was some 797 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,319 Speaker 1: great tips from the Washington State Highway Patrol on how 798 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:17,239 Speaker 1: to be brutally cruel to people who don't have the 799 00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:21,480 Speaker 1: ability to fight back. I love it, do you no? 800 00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:24,520 Speaker 1: What do you? It was probably just adds for other 801 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:30,400 Speaker 1: podcasts well, like the newest show on our network, the 802 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:36,919 Speaker 1: Washington State Highway Patrol cast. That's why that's actually a week. 803 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:42,480 Speaker 1: That's Margaret's podcast. It's It's It's every week a new 804 00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:45,719 Speaker 1: Washington State Highway Patrol officer talks about their job while 805 00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:50,120 Speaker 1: Margaret tells them inly elaborate ways they can flee themselves 806 00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,160 Speaker 1: off the top of a building. But here's the thing. 807 00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,640 Speaker 1: I can't even take this bit seriously because it's because 808 00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,160 Speaker 1: they suck so much. Listen to her. It could happen 809 00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:01,719 Speaker 1: your episode on the Washington stoop Roll, or are like 810 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,880 Speaker 1: three episodes on the Chicago pet or the two behind 811 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,040 Speaker 1: the Bastards as we did on Border Patrol. All we're 812 00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:14,200 Speaker 1: saying is that every city in America you could you 813 00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,759 Speaker 1: could dedicate weeks and weeks and content and not at 814 00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:21,000 Speaker 1: the bottom. Yeah, every city in America has a bunch 815 00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:24,239 Speaker 1: of dudes with guns who would see a kind of 816 00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,319 Speaker 1: weird kid with a sign and a medallion that they 817 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,000 Speaker 1: clearly made themselves and decide hog tying is the right 818 00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:37,600 Speaker 1: answer to this this problem. Um so yeah, obviously something 819 00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:39,759 Speaker 1: awful in two thousand seven. Compassion is not at the 820 00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,120 Speaker 1: top of anyone's list. And when people start finding this 821 00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,640 Speaker 1: stuff out reading these stories, there's this kind of like 822 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:48,640 Speaker 1: awe at her peculiarities. In particularly her quest for a 823 00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:52,680 Speaker 1: boyfriend free girl. On my Space, Christian wrote in detail 824 00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:56,040 Speaker 1: about her desire to find a quote soulmatee slash soul 825 00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:59,640 Speaker 1: lover slash mother of future daughter UM who she would 826 00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,400 Speaker 1: name Crystal. Christine's requirements for her girlfriend were specific and 827 00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:07,040 Speaker 1: deeply offensive, stating that she must be white or sometimes 828 00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:11,920 Speaker 1: white bodied, and normal sized to thin. Real ugly women 829 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,960 Speaker 1: need not apply, nor should the quote low functionally mentally 830 00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:20,600 Speaker 1: handicapped or autistic people, although quote I myself am high 831 00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:26,000 Speaker 1: functionally autistic. But that's beside the point. Definitely beside the point. Yeah, 832 00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:30,440 Speaker 1: there there goes my like shred of she's not a 833 00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:36,319 Speaker 1: good person. Um. She does fall into my category of like, well, 834 00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:40,240 Speaker 1: how could she have been much better than this? Um? 835 00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:44,600 Speaker 1: But not a just I think there's a lot of blame. 836 00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,000 Speaker 1: She has to be hearing this from her dad and 837 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,600 Speaker 1: her mom right, Like. I don't think she would have 838 00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,759 Speaker 1: picked up from fucking Sonic video games saying ship like 839 00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,480 Speaker 1: this about people who aren't you know, because you're supposed 840 00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:59,520 Speaker 1: to be blue in that game. I think there's gotta 841 00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,000 Speaker 1: be a lot of racism she was encountering as a kid, 842 00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,680 Speaker 1: UM and she just didn't get over it, which is 843 00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,919 Speaker 1: an adult now, but yeah she should. At this point, 844 00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,160 Speaker 1: I guess messy. I don't know how to say yeah, 845 00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,960 Speaker 1: I'm not enough of an expert pine about this is 846 00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:18,600 Speaker 1: this is part of why people get obsessed with her 847 00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:21,880 Speaker 1: because it's this mix of like, this is what stops 848 00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:23,960 Speaker 1: you when you when you start like making fun of 849 00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,560 Speaker 1: her and you start like these, even these harassment campaigns, 850 00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,479 Speaker 1: she'll always say or do something really awful that makes 851 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,799 Speaker 1: it easy to keep going because then you don't have 852 00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,160 Speaker 1: to feel as bad. You know, if she weren't a 853 00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,920 Speaker 1: person with some really fucked up, unpleasant things that she 854 00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:40,400 Speaker 1: was doing and saying, it would have been a harder 855 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,160 Speaker 1: for so many people to to keep this up, you know, 856 00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:47,120 Speaker 1: which gets into really dark stuff about the ways that 857 00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:52,600 Speaker 1: we choose to people to demonize based on this is 858 00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:55,640 Speaker 1: Kiwi farms and when we talk about like that kind 859 00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,600 Speaker 1: of harassment is mostly a bunch of terrible people picking 860 00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:02,600 Speaker 1: people who are general really not terrible and harassing them. 861 00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,200 Speaker 1: But there is in the germs of the Christian in 862 00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:07,320 Speaker 1: the Christian story, there are the germs of like every 863 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,200 Speaker 1: time you get people forming Twitter mobs over some like 864 00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,440 Speaker 1: stupid bullshit to like destroy a person's life because like 865 00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,480 Speaker 1: they didn't quite phrase something the way you liked it 866 00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:19,240 Speaker 1: her because like like the same, like all of it 867 00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:21,600 Speaker 1: has its genesis here. You can see every piece of 868 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:23,640 Speaker 1: it here, and some of it is just that like, oh, 869 00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:27,160 Speaker 1: well she's racist, so let's let's keep making fun of her, 870 00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:31,640 Speaker 1: you know. Um yeah, which for some people is perfect 871 00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:36,560 Speaker 1: like there there that's easy to justify and not necessarily 872 00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,400 Speaker 1: in a bad way. I mean, like sometimes it but 873 00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:41,759 Speaker 1: you can't make fun of someone for like the sonic Pikachu. 874 00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:45,640 Speaker 1: You have to make fun of them for being white supremacist. 875 00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,120 Speaker 1: But but it all just kind of blurs together for 876 00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:52,319 Speaker 1: Christine and and more than anything, what people are laughing 877 00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:54,960 Speaker 1: at is the fact that she's different, you know, like 878 00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,640 Speaker 1: the fact that she's racist and stuff is a part 879 00:48:57,719 --> 00:48:59,640 Speaker 1: of it, but it's it's not the primary thing that 880 00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:03,840 Speaker 1: she gets harassed over. So once this is posted, Agon 881 00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,520 Speaker 1: decided to reach out to Christian, writing quote, I just 882 00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:09,759 Speaker 1: sent a little message to her on my Space. Nothing mean, 883 00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:12,200 Speaker 1: I'm genuinely curious on what she thinks about some things. 884 00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:14,680 Speaker 1: Hopefully she'll reply pretty soon. Although I have no ideas 885 00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:18,440 Speaker 1: of time zones or anything. Um. So this was immediately 886 00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,000 Speaker 1: followed up by another gooon expressing what a bad idea 887 00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:24,160 Speaker 1: this was, and quite by accident, summing up the next 888 00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:28,040 Speaker 1: fourteen years of Christine's life. I know this is something awful, 889 00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:29,279 Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, she does have 890 00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:31,200 Speaker 1: a disability. I took a quick glance at this and 891 00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:33,480 Speaker 1: immediately felt sorry for her. It's the words and all 892 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:36,719 Speaker 1: window into her lonely life. Her childish innocence clashes with 893 00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:39,359 Speaker 1: her misguided attempts of acting grown up so badly it's 894 00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,560 Speaker 1: disturbing and sad. Unfortunately, she can post on the Internet, 895 00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:48,239 Speaker 1: which means she can be ridiculed. Yeah yeah, there's people 896 00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:54,760 Speaker 1: who get what's going on, you know. Um yeah, pretty bleak. 897 00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:58,879 Speaker 1: So this is like before troll culture, really the birth 898 00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:00,799 Speaker 1: of troll culture as a And see how like some 899 00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:02,560 Speaker 1: of the people involved in the birth of try culture 900 00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:06,000 Speaker 1: weren't necessarily coming out it m hm, and they were 901 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:08,319 Speaker 1: coming at it from like, look at this person, this 902 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:10,960 Speaker 1: is weird, this is interesting, Like this art is strange 903 00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,440 Speaker 1: these because she has all these elaborate comics and people 904 00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,160 Speaker 1: like just want to read them, and like, you know, 905 00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,000 Speaker 1: you can discuss like whether or not it's cool to 906 00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:22,360 Speaker 1: do that, but it's not harassment to like find this 907 00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:24,839 Speaker 1: person's posted their weird comics. Let's like laugh at them. 908 00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:28,840 Speaker 1: You know. That's not necessarily abusive or harassing. It's just 909 00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:31,680 Speaker 1: like consuming someone's content, maybe in a way they wouldn't like, 910 00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:33,200 Speaker 1: but they put it out there, and you have a 911 00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:36,439 Speaker 1: right to like feel how you do about it. Then 912 00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:38,640 Speaker 1: it starts to expand to like, well, let's reach out 913 00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:40,000 Speaker 1: to her in person. I want to talk to her, 914 00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:41,799 Speaker 1: you know, I want to like see her. And there 915 00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:44,440 Speaker 1: are people who were into the ground floor of this 916 00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:46,640 Speaker 1: where you're just like marveling at this person's kind of 917 00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,799 Speaker 1: weird behavior, who are like, this is a disabled person. 918 00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:51,920 Speaker 1: You shouldn't be like reaching out to them and like 919 00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:55,360 Speaker 1: finding them in the real world, and like you, we 920 00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:57,440 Speaker 1: could do a lot of damage here. There's like that, right, 921 00:50:57,440 --> 00:50:59,520 Speaker 1: you've see that post someone being like, we could really 922 00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:01,920 Speaker 1: do some damage here. This is a person who should 923 00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:07,640 Speaker 1: not be fucked with, you know. So folks are aware 924 00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:10,080 Speaker 1: of what some folks at least are aware of what 925 00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:13,680 Speaker 1: could happen, and it keeps happening. While there were more 926 00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:16,719 Speaker 1: something awful threads about Christine over the years, it was 927 00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:20,439 Speaker 1: four Chan, we're following her would develop into a subculture, 928 00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:25,319 Speaker 1: and being four chan, people immediately took things way too far. Now, 929 00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:28,600 Speaker 1: Encyclopedia dramatic A was was new back then, and an 930 00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:32,360 Speaker 1: onns created a page for her. Christian found out about 931 00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,360 Speaker 1: her Encyclopedia dramatic A page, And if you know anything 932 00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,799 Speaker 1: about this person, the worst thing that could happen is 933 00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:39,759 Speaker 1: that she become aware that she has a page on 934 00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:44,040 Speaker 1: e D because she's not going to handle that well. Um. 935 00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:45,680 Speaker 1: I think she finds out because of one of her 936 00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,320 Speaker 1: stalker's emails her about it. And this is going to 937 00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,160 Speaker 1: be the first time where she really fails to follow 938 00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:53,800 Speaker 1: the good advice her middle school teacher gave her. Instead 939 00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:57,720 Speaker 1: of ignoring the trolls, Christine starts making dozens and dozens 940 00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:02,040 Speaker 1: of corrections to the Encyclopedia dramatic Age. Which is that 941 00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:09,560 Speaker 1: rules a good call? Yeah? Um, obviously, if you know 942 00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:12,000 Speaker 1: anything about this particulation of the Internet, this is the 943 00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:14,000 Speaker 1: best thing you could have done for the folks making 944 00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,080 Speaker 1: fun of her. Unfortunately, they are over the moon about 945 00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:19,279 Speaker 1: this stuff right because now they get to like make 946 00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:21,680 Speaker 1: fun of her attempts at like defending herself and like 947 00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:25,359 Speaker 1: what she says and all this stuff. Um, they found 948 00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:28,400 Speaker 1: it hilarious. Like every difference she has, she would respond 949 00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:32,240 Speaker 1: to incorrect claims about, for example, her sexuality by providing 950 00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,959 Speaker 1: evidence to prove them wrong. So people would like joke 951 00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:37,160 Speaker 1: that she was like gay or I think a sexual 952 00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,840 Speaker 1: and so she would like provide evidence of her sexual 953 00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:47,040 Speaker 1: fantasies to for Chan in order to yeah, yeah that's bad, um. 954 00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:51,799 Speaker 1: And and yeah, it's comprehensively bad because some of the 955 00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:55,560 Speaker 1: evidence she has, like a female friend at this point, 956 00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:57,520 Speaker 1: like one of her first, like one of her few 957 00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:59,600 Speaker 1: like people that she actually can hang out with and 958 00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:03,280 Speaker 1: be so with. And the evidence she provides to Fortune 959 00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:06,439 Speaker 1: to show that she's straight is pornographic drawing she's made 960 00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,560 Speaker 1: of this friend of hers. Um, that was probably really 961 00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:14,320 Speaker 1: good for the friendship. Yeah, it does not go over well, um, 962 00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:19,800 Speaker 1: because Christine had previously like kind of expressed romantic interest 963 00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:22,279 Speaker 1: in this person, and the friend had very gently been like, 964 00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:23,920 Speaker 1: I don't I don't you know, see you that way. 965 00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:26,680 Speaker 1: I don't want to, but I want to be your friend. Um. 966 00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:29,719 Speaker 1: And of course she's rightly horrified when she finds out 967 00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:33,160 Speaker 1: that her friend has provided pornography that she drew of 968 00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:37,000 Speaker 1: them to thousands of strangers. That's a thing you you 969 00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:43,120 Speaker 1: should be a great about. Bob's Burgers. Bob's Bob's Burgers 970 00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:47,160 Speaker 1: has erotic friend fiction, Louise, I think is oh yes, yes, yes, 971 00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,880 Speaker 1: a lot of friend fiction is not a winner in 972 00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:54,640 Speaker 1: social circles. Don't post it online, you know, whatever you're 973 00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:57,600 Speaker 1: gonna do, certainly, don't hand it to four chan to 974 00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:01,960 Speaker 1: proof that you're straight. Right, um and yeah, Christine loses 975 00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:04,680 Speaker 1: this friend forever. And of course it is the funniest 976 00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:07,120 Speaker 1: thing that these people who are now stalking here have 977 00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:12,080 Speaker 1: ever ever experienced. Um and and all of the terrible 978 00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:15,200 Speaker 1: things only kind of escalate from there. But you know 979 00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:21,640 Speaker 1: what doesn't escalate from here, Margaret the episode because this 980 00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:24,280 Speaker 1: is this is the end of part one and it's yeah, 981 00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:29,480 Speaker 1: time for your um your plugables. How you feeling, Margaret, I, 982 00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:31,680 Speaker 1: you know, like it's not that I feel like I 983 00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:37,360 Speaker 1: got tricked into coming on to whatever. It's fine, it's fine. 984 00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:41,480 Speaker 1: It's not like I'm really close to home someone exactly 985 00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:50,560 Speaker 1: my age who Yeah, weird shitty like behavior from like classmates, 986 00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:54,640 Speaker 1: and like, well here's the thing you can find. Literally, 987 00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:58,080 Speaker 1: there's probably more we were building this, There's probably more 988 00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:03,040 Speaker 1: written about Christine than any other figure in history, like 989 00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:06,440 Speaker 1: in terms of biographical information, I doubt there is more 990 00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:10,200 Speaker 1: biographical information about like people like fucking Hitler out there, 991 00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,520 Speaker 1: and more like it is, the degree to which people 992 00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:20,359 Speaker 1: obsess over her life is insane. Um and nearly all 993 00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:24,080 Speaker 1: of what you're going to find is like really grossly 994 00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:28,239 Speaker 1: voyeuristic and like mocking. And I think this is an 995 00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,560 Speaker 1: important story because it is kind of foundational to why 996 00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:33,600 Speaker 1: the Internet is the way that it is and why 997 00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:36,080 Speaker 1: Internet culture is the way that it is. But like 998 00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:38,520 Speaker 1: it's also really it was really important to me in 999 00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:41,040 Speaker 1: telling this story, you have to get into an uncomfortable 1000 00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:43,920 Speaker 1: level of detail, and it I don't want it. I 1001 00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:45,720 Speaker 1: didn't want to just like make fun of this person, 1002 00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:50,000 Speaker 1: because I don't think that's good. Um. I just I 1003 00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:52,680 Speaker 1: do think the story is important because it builds to 1004 00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:56,160 Speaker 1: everything we're dealing with right now. I don't think you're 1005 00:55:56,160 --> 00:56:00,000 Speaker 1: making fun of her, it's just it's and then yet also, 1006 00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:03,680 Speaker 1: you know, the whole racist, homophobic thing is not It's 1007 00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:06,719 Speaker 1: not a good look for anybody, regardless of what they're dealing. 1008 00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:12,440 Speaker 1: I yeah, I wanted someone else who I felt like 1009 00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:17,920 Speaker 1: would uh kind of identify with the being like harassed 1010 00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:19,440 Speaker 1: and made fun of, Like I was a weird kid 1011 00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:21,919 Speaker 1: who drew cartoons who had like the cartoons taken away 1012 00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:23,680 Speaker 1: from me from like a kid in class who would 1013 00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:26,600 Speaker 1: like read them and ship Like like I get it, 1014 00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:30,799 Speaker 1: I get like some of the ship that she must 1015 00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:34,960 Speaker 1: have been going through. Um, and so I I have 1016 00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:37,680 Speaker 1: actually a lot of compassion for this person who is 1017 00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:43,880 Speaker 1: not a good person. I think you have to approach 1018 00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:49,480 Speaker 1: in a complex way. And um, it's unfortunate that like this, 1019 00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:51,760 Speaker 1: this should never have been a person who like needed 1020 00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:55,759 Speaker 1: to be a figure of kind of national attention. That 1021 00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:57,520 Speaker 1: is where this story ends. It ends with her on 1022 00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:02,080 Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson as it heads up. Yeah, like like this 1023 00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:04,279 Speaker 1: this is this is blown up to the point and 1024 00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:06,880 Speaker 1: it and it's found again. It's so foundational to like 1025 00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:08,840 Speaker 1: internet culture that I think you have to get into it. 1026 00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:11,680 Speaker 1: But like it would be really easy to do that 1027 00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:14,680 Speaker 1: and just be like another two hours of people making 1028 00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:17,880 Speaker 1: fun of this person on the internet. Um, there's a 1029 00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:20,400 Speaker 1: documentary series that's like a couple of hundred hours in 1030 00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:23,000 Speaker 1: length on YouTube that you can find, Like it's it's 1031 00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:25,520 Speaker 1: it's fucking crazy. How much ship there is about this? 1032 00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:30,120 Speaker 1: This is um which is which is anyway? Yeah, I 1033 00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:33,120 Speaker 1: don't even know what. Well we'll explain all of that 1034 00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:37,680 Speaker 1: part two, Margaret, But but for now, you gotta plug anything. Well, 1035 00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:41,880 Speaker 1: I have a show coming out. Um, I don't know 1036 00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:46,440 Speaker 1: whether I don't know whether it's announced yet. Um is 1037 00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:53,400 Speaker 1: it announced yet? Can I can I announce? We can? Yeah, 1038 00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:58,600 Speaker 1: let's do it fun funk our corporate overlords, let's do it. Literally, 1039 00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:01,160 Speaker 1: they have no say in this. Are you talking about? Well, 1040 00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:05,360 Speaker 1: le's perstend like we're sticking it to the man by Yeah. Yeah, 1041 00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:09,919 Speaker 1: that's why I'm signing a contract to do it. Yeah. Well, 1042 00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:13,080 Speaker 1: the man coming out called cool people who did cool stuff, 1043 00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:17,400 Speaker 1: and cool people did cool stuff is about well, it's 1044 00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:21,000 Speaker 1: about cool people who did um cool stuff. Yeah yeah, 1045 00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:23,840 Speaker 1: and um and so people who like behind the bastards. 1046 00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:28,080 Speaker 1: But I don't like the bastards. You know, I'm really 1047 00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:32,200 Speaker 1: I'm work shopping how to pitch this. But yeah, but yeah, 1048 00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:33,960 Speaker 1: So I have a new podcast coming out on May 1049 00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:39,040 Speaker 1: second on Cool Zone Media. Um. And other than that, 1050 00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:42,320 Speaker 1: you can find me on Twitter at Magpie kill Joy 1051 00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:45,960 Speaker 1: or Instagram at Margaret Killjoy. On Twitter, I stir up 1052 00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:48,400 Speaker 1: fights that I now feel slightly more guilty for stirring 1053 00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:51,600 Speaker 1: up after listening to this episode and on Instagram, I 1054 00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:55,680 Speaker 1: talk about how much I love my dog. That sounds 1055 00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:59,120 Speaker 1: much better than literally anything we've talked about today. Go 1056 00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:02,360 Speaker 1: find a dog, take care of a dog. Margaret's dog 1057 00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:07,560 Speaker 1: is exceptionally beauty. Dog is good. Your dog exceptionally beautiful 1058 00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:11,960 Speaker 1: inside and out. Oh my god. Thanks, Well, this has 1059 00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:13,760 Speaker 1: been fun. I'm glad we got to throw in a 1060 00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:16,720 Speaker 1: little middle finger to our corporate overlords. Take that. Yeah, 1061 00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:20,760 Speaker 1: the man people who give us money whenever we ask 1062 00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:23,960 Speaker 1: and let us do whatever we want. That'll teach you, 1063 00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:30,120 Speaker 1: that'll learn you. Um all right, Go hug a dog. 1064 00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:35,400 Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media. 1065 00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:38,320 Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool 1066 00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:41,400 Speaker 1: zone media dot com, or check us out on the 1067 00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:44,120 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 1068 00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:44,920 Speaker 1: your podcasts.