Speaker 1: Also media, Oh boy, welcome to Behind the Bastards, a
Speaker 1: podcast where tired people talk about a guy they hate,
Speaker 1: in this case Andrew Tate. How are we all doing today?
Speaker 1: Everybody pull of energy? You just don't know, as the
Speaker 1: kids say. I don't think the kids say that.
Speaker 2: Ready to go. Playoffs are about to start, Lakers and five,
Speaker 2: so we're good to go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's good. Lakers in five sounds like a
Speaker 1: positive development.
Speaker 3: I had a really enjoyable experience of texting Robert late
Speaker 3: on Sunday when he was very intoxicated a picture of
Speaker 3: the Labarbie that I've pur purchased, which is Lebron James Kendall,
Speaker 3: and Robert like call me and go, Sophie, what is this?
Speaker 2: And it's just beautiful is what it is?
Speaker 3: And I was like, it makes me happy, That's what
Speaker 3: it is.
Speaker 2: The amount of grown men like standing in line trying
Speaker 2: to get this dolls just it's you can't make it.
Speaker 1: They made like a g I Joe, a m or
Speaker 1: is it a is it a Barbie brand?
Speaker 4: Now it's like it's a doll.
Speaker 1: Made a Lebron Kindle. Well he's really finally arrived.
Speaker 4: I guess yeah, it's sold out so fast, but I
Speaker 4: was well, I was there, I did it.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna guess that's the lowest percentage of Barbie dolls
Speaker 1: that have ever been bought by little girls.
Speaker 4: Probably probably true, probably true.
Speaker 3: But it's you know what, it made me happy for
Speaker 3: like forty five minutes, and when I look at it,
Speaker 3: all feel joy and like the world sucks.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, joy sounds nice.
Speaker 2: Take the winds where we can get them.
Speaker 1: I remember joy that's been replaced with occasional sleep. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Speaking of things that bring me joy, this is not
Speaker 1: one of them. Because today we're going to be talking
Speaker 1: yet again about our friend Andrew Tait, who is not
Speaker 1: our friend.
Speaker 3: But who is our friend is super residing producer Ian Johnson,
Speaker 3: who's here once again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me back. You can't wait to
Speaker 2: hear more about the.
Speaker 1: Horrors Ian Johnson.
Speaker 2: You don't do that. Don't do that. No, No, Robert,
Speaker 2: I've had thirty five years of that. Please don't contribute.
Speaker 1: Yeah, none of that, man, it's it's I've been I
Speaker 1: had a good I always love it when there's like
Speaker 1: really really like stereotypically cheesy names in an action movie.
Speaker 1: And I just watched that very good movie Novakane starting
Speaker 1: a Guy from the Boys about a dude who can't
Speaker 1: feel pain, and it does a good job with it,
Speaker 1: portraying it both as like a disability and realistically showing
Speaker 1: how he could use it, like to his advantage in
Speaker 1: a fight. And it's like very cringey because you're constantly
Speaker 1: watching this guy like permanently damage his body. But it's
Speaker 1: a hoot. But they made the real character's name Nathan Kane,
Speaker 1: which is like, okay, guys, oh that's a little Was
Speaker 1: that necessary?
Speaker 2: Did you have to?
Speaker 1: I know it's going to that's going to come out
Speaker 1: out in a pitch meeting, like, oh what if we
Speaker 1: called him this? But you didn't need to.
Speaker 5: You didn't.
Speaker 4: You didn't need to.
Speaker 1: Most of the movies pretty grounded, which is kind of
Speaker 1: what works about it. And then like that happens and
Speaker 1: you're like, I don't know, guys.
Speaker 2: Come on, you're so close.
Speaker 1: There's also a scene where a bunch of bank robbers
Speaker 1: come out with like a hostage and the cops like
Speaker 1: put their guns down, and I'm like, this is this
Speaker 1: this is the San Diego Police Department. You're telling me
Speaker 1: they don't just empty their fucking rifles into that fucking
Speaker 1: those people.
Speaker 2: I won't deal with the lawsuit.
Speaker 1: Later We'll watched the LAPD shoot up a trader Joe's
Speaker 1: over a hostage situation and killing him.
Speaker 2: We don't need that shit here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, speaking of shit nobody needs, we're talking about
Speaker 1: Andrew Tait and his digital empire, how it works. Today's
Speaker 1: episodes are going to be based on a bunch of
Speaker 1: subsequent reporting that was not available when we did our
Speaker 1: first episodes, about how the war Room, which is his
Speaker 1: very expensive premium service that costs about eight grand a
Speaker 1: year to join, although that's actually the low end for
Speaker 1: what this fucking thing costs to be a member of,
Speaker 1: and the real world, which is like cost fifty bucks
Speaker 1: a month in the real world is you know, if
Speaker 1: it's Toyota, the war Room is Lexus, that's the premium brand,
Speaker 1: and the real world is you know, the normal brand
Speaker 1: that actually makes them the bulk of their money. So
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about how these work, how Tate has
Speaker 1: weaponized them over the years, and what some of these
Speaker 1: released chat logs have made clear about the operating culture.
Speaker 1: But first, that's the cold open. We're done, We're back
Speaker 1: and Sophie and I are commenting on our same colored drinks.
Speaker 3: What's yours, mine's electrolyte.
Speaker 1: Water minds, some mix of BCAAs and water. Because this
Speaker 1: is ostensibly a workout day that yeah, has been a
Speaker 1: little bit of a shit show, but might as well
Speaker 1: get whatever those chemicals are. People say they do something sensational. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so the doctors say, speaking of things that do something.
Speaker 1: The war room and so the real world is is
Speaker 1: kind of the core of Tate's business because it's got
Speaker 1: between one hundred and fifty and two hundred thousand subscribers
Speaker 1: at any given time. I think one hundred and seventy
Speaker 1: k is the estimate you'll hear the most often. And
Speaker 1: you've got that many people pay in fifty bucks a month.
Speaker 1: You're talking some serious money. Now, there's wide turnover on
Speaker 1: that because fifty bucks a month isn't a massive upfront investment, right,
Speaker 1: people can afford to pay that and then back out later.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people who are kind of interested
Speaker 1: in them for a little while who will be and
Speaker 1: so there's a lot of churn over the overall use
Speaker 1: of this right, and the goal of the real world
Speaker 1: broadly is both to make money and to funnel users
Speaker 1: upward into the war Room, which is much more expensive,
Speaker 1: you know, and as a result harder to get into,
Speaker 1: but also lower turnover once people make that kind of
Speaker 1: financial commitment. So both of these places we've known about
Speaker 1: for a while. The real World was originally Hustler's University,
Speaker 1: which is kind of Tate's first big web platform that
Speaker 1: kind of taught people how to pick up women and
Speaker 1: run cam horing business.
Speaker 2: So to speak.
Speaker 1: And yeah, so we've known these places existed, but they
Speaker 1: were kind of black boxes until in August of twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three, a disgruntled I think this is a person
Speaker 1: who would describe themselves as a rival of Tates, like
Speaker 1: someone who saw dislikes what he's doing and wanted to
Speaker 1: get into them. It's not clear to me how they
Speaker 1: got access to the chat logs, but they get access
Speaker 1: to internal chat logs from the war Room, which is
Speaker 1: his digital inner circle, and they give them to the BBC,
Speaker 1: and the BBC uses these to put together a documentary
Speaker 1: in several articles. Their primary interest as reporters was in
Speaker 1: laying out how the Tate brothers and their cohorts traffic
Speaker 1: women and these logs identified forty five potential victims from
Speaker 1: just the period of March twenty nineteen to April of
Speaker 1: twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: Now, wow, I was just from one year. Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 1: And this is again there's maybe five hundred people in
Speaker 1: the war room, and these are the people though, who
Speaker 1: are much more successful in actually doing the thing Tait
Speaker 1: is trying to train people how to do. Right, The
Speaker 1: real world is filled with young men who have ambitions
Speaker 1: to be small scale digital pimps, but don't really have
Speaker 1: the skill or the commitment, so they primarily contribute by
Speaker 1: paying classes that are supposed to teach them how to
Speaker 1: do that shit. Whereas the war room is full of
Speaker 1: people who are actually doing the kind of Andrew Tait stuff.
Speaker 1: So that's why they were able to Like there's photos
Speaker 1: posted of texts, people post pictures of the women that
Speaker 1: they're you know, trying to bring in and traffic, so
Speaker 1: you kind of see, it's possible to actually collect data
Speaker 1: on specific potential victims right through that. Now, the next year,
Speaker 1: November of twenty twenty four, a group of anonymous activists
Speaker 1: managed to breach the real world, which is, you know,
Speaker 1: the larger platform and the cyber attack exposed the data
Speaker 1: of some eight hundred thousand people who have used it
Speaker 1: at some point or another. During the time about one
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy thousand people were active, So you get
Speaker 1: an idea of like the scale of this. And it's
Speaker 1: also every time, every time these pieces of shit, It's
Speaker 1: the same thing with those like Nazi leagues for a
Speaker 1: while ago. Every time those pieces of shit create something
Speaker 1: like this, it gets just absolutely blown up. And then
Speaker 1: everybody's data gets leaked and you find out how many
Speaker 1: of them work for the federal government or whatever.
Speaker 4: Right, right, familiar, yep.
Speaker 1: So both leaks are interesting for different reasons. But I
Speaker 1: want to start with the real world because that, again
Speaker 1: is kind of what funnels people's up. The site's ad
Speaker 1: copy claims it as quote the world's most advanced financial
Speaker 1: education platform, but it's also geared towards helping young men
Speaker 1: escape the matrix and avoid wasting their lives as a brokie,
Speaker 1: which thanks to Tate, has become one of the more
Speaker 1: common adolescent slang terms for young boys in the UK,
Speaker 1: And it means you don't have much money, right, you
Speaker 1: get this fucking you hear this a lot with like
Speaker 1: the way these kids talk to their teachers, and their
Speaker 1: parents were like, were you just a brokie? Like why
Speaker 1: would I listen to anything you have to say about
Speaker 1: life or the world. You don't have as much money
Speaker 1: as for example, this guy that I'm paying fifty bucks
Speaker 1: a month for my mom's credit card to learn how
Speaker 1: to like mostly make like AI scam books and stuff
Speaker 1: to sell on Amazon. Like, that's honestly the biggest thing
Speaker 1: that the real world does, right now, that's the grift.
Speaker 3: Yeah, literally, the Hustlers University thing, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yes, right, yes, and so's there's all just like scams
Speaker 1: to get rich quick essentially, right, yeah, scams to get
Speaker 1: rich quick, And it's all this this very much like
Speaker 1: it's the same cons that you encounter if you're on
Speaker 1: like YouTube and you get a bunch of like con
Speaker 1: ads for oh, here's a video of a guy in
Speaker 1: his fucking garage that with a sports car and a
Speaker 1: bunch of shitty business books and him walking you through
Speaker 1: how he makes twenty thousand dollars a month or whatever
Speaker 1: on Amazon drop shipping or you know, making Kindle AI books. Again,
Speaker 1: that's now kind of the big one. And while initially
Speaker 1: Hustler's University was more focused just on getting women to
Speaker 1: work in your cam business. The real world is a
Speaker 1: mix of very standard like pickup artists stuff like here's
Speaker 1: here are the different tips and tricks for getting women
Speaker 1: interested in you and how to like, you know, mentally
Speaker 1: abuse them so they don't leave you. And the next
Speaker 1: set of them is or the next set of things
Speaker 1: on it is like here's a bunch of different scams
Speaker 1: for how you can get rich, and they're all again
Speaker 1: there are all these like drop shipping scams and AI
Speaker 1: scams and stuff. So it's none of it is for
Speaker 1: as much as he talks about like being this jetsetter
Speaker 1: who's got all of these innovative ideas, Like his primary
Speaker 1: money it's an MLM, right, like this is a thing
Speaker 1: that most people who do this will never make a
Speaker 1: dime really doing it. His money is in selling them
Speaker 1: and selling subscriptions right.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 1: The platform provides courses on common like passive income schemes.
Speaker 1: That's another term you'll hear a lot. It's primary service
Speaker 1: for Tait is both to milk money out of these
Speaker 1: kids and the hope that they'll believe for a time
Speaker 1: that they're going to get rich, but also to utilize
Speaker 1: them for free labor to keep his name trending again.
Speaker 1: The way this guy went from a nobody to being
Speaker 1: at least the most well known name on social media
Speaker 1: is by gathering this group of young men together and
Speaker 1: handing them. Once they're paying for access to the site,
Speaker 1: they get access to this archive of all of Tate's
Speaker 1: videos and interviews and they can cut up clips from
Speaker 1: that to edit into YouTube and TikTok content. Right, and
Speaker 1: this content doesn't get them viewers, Like that's kind of
Speaker 1: what it's build is doing, is like you can use
Speaker 1: Andrew's fame in order to build your own platform. That
Speaker 1: doesn't really work. But what does work is if you've
Speaker 1: got thousands of people constantly posting their shit to different
Speaker 1: social media the right, yeah, and the algorithm will continue
Speaker 1: to prioritize your name and stuff related to you, you know.
Speaker 1: And that's that's really how all this stuff works. Just
Speaker 1: free propaganda for him, it's free propaganda. And that's the
Speaker 1: actual the real insight that he had, Like all of
Speaker 1: these cons are just stuff he rips off from elsewhere
Speaker 1: on the Internet, taking the MLM structure and adapting it
Speaker 1: to instead of having them try to sell his products,
Speaker 1: having them try to keep his name going viral so
Speaker 1: that the algorithm rewards his content. That's a unique and
Speaker 1: creative move that he's made, and it's gotten him quite
Speaker 1: a bit of what he has right now now. One
Speaker 1: of these BBC articles I came across interviews a former
Speaker 1: member of the Real World Mahmoud, who was pulled into
Speaker 1: Tate's orbit when he started coming across some of these
Speaker 1: videos that were just like being spread across his different
Speaker 1: social media timelines. He fell for the con He believed that, like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this guy can probably teach me how to get rich.
Speaker 1: I want to get rich. You know, life's hard in
Speaker 1: the UK as a young man, like I need to
Speaker 1: figure out some way that I can make a bunch
Speaker 1: of money. So he pays fifty bucks and he joins quote.
Speaker 1: Before long, he was completely immersed in Tate's universe, isolating
Speaker 1: himself from friends and family. Mahmoud would regularly spend ten
Speaker 1: to twelve hours a day, sometimes his Mania sixteen and
Speaker 1: his computer editing and publishing social media videos promoting Tate
Speaker 1: daily as part of the required coursework. He'd become a
Speaker 1: cog and the same sophisticated Pierre machine that had initially
Speaker 1: drawn him to the influencer's web.
Speaker 2: God. So he's giving these kids homework to just like
Speaker 2: make as many TikTok videos of him as possible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you want to stay in, if you want
Speaker 1: to keep getting access to these different instructors that I've had,
Speaker 1: if you don't want to be kicked out, or you
Speaker 1: want a chance of getting into this. He has an
Speaker 1: affiliate marketing program. You have to post a certain number
Speaker 1: of videos a day, and they're really they're just trying
Speaker 1: to keep these kids on as often as they can,
Speaker 1: pumping out like sixteen hours a day for free. I
Speaker 1: mean not not even for free. They're paying for the privilege. Right,
Speaker 1: And again, there's not any one specific thing that's unique
Speaker 1: about the real world outside of this. All of the
Speaker 1: money making scams they teach people are the same stuff
Speaker 1: you'll come across in these like YouTube ads. There's this
Speaker 1: basically like this forum type experience. I think it's mostly
Speaker 1: conducted through telegram, So there's different private channels where users
Speaker 1: can talk to each other about their business ideas or
Speaker 1: about how to pick up women. And this allows Andrew
Speaker 1: to put in a lot less actual work in the system. Right,
Speaker 1: he doesn't have to teach people directly, and he doesn't
Speaker 1: actually have to manage this. He just has to put
Speaker 1: out his own content and it'll all get kind of
Speaker 1: fed into the churn. Andrew has promoted coaches in order
Speaker 1: to handle the day to day task of managing this place.
Speaker 1: These are members of the war room who are also
Speaker 1: paying him. They'll call him his general sometimes too. And
Speaker 1: in addition to you know, subscriptions to the real world,
Speaker 1: he sells classes and tickets to life events around the
Speaker 1: world where he will travel and you know, travel alongside
Speaker 1: other men who are kind of in the Tate universe,
Speaker 1: and they'll give events for these These just unbelievably sad
Speaker 1: young men who desperately want to know how to pick
Speaker 1: up women and get rich enough to not just rent
Speaker 1: their maserati at a day rate. The centerpiece of his
Speaker 1: whole platform, the main thing that he is geared towards
Speaker 1: selling through the real world is his PhD. What stands
Speaker 1: of course for pimpinhose degree. Right, we talked about this
Speaker 1: last time. No, it's always so. It's just the worst
Speaker 1: thing when I have to tell people that, yeah, yeah, it.
Speaker 3: Puts every time it hurts.
Speaker 1: Again, There's nothing at all that is unique or creative
Speaker 1: about this. What's actually happening here is this, all these
Speaker 1: warmed over techniques from like the game and the first
Speaker 1: couple of years of the pickup artist community are being
Speaker 1: repackaged into a degree, and then that is being made
Speaker 1: into number one. It's a prerequisite to join the war room.
Speaker 1: And the goal here is not to just seduce women
Speaker 1: to have sex with them, which is kind of what
Speaker 1: the pickup artists were doing. It was all about adding
Speaker 1: notches to your belt or whatever. In this case, the
Speaker 1: goal is to coerce women, make them fall for you,
Speaker 1: isolate them from their loved ones, and then get them
Speaker 1: working for you on camera as a sex worker, right
Speaker 1: and convincing them to hand over all of the money
Speaker 1: they make doing so. That's yeah, that's just that's the business.
Speaker 4: Hard to even process. It's so gross.
Speaker 1: It's such an interesting evolution of this is about how
Speaker 1: to at a If you were kind of paying attention
Speaker 1: to the early days of the pickup artist community, it
Speaker 1: was always very toxic, but it was less like outwardly
Speaker 1: evil like a lot more of it was framed as like, well,
Speaker 1: this is just teaching young awkward men how to be
Speaker 1: charming and how to like yeah, you know, get get
Speaker 1: and that turned into there's a reason why this fed
Speaker 1: so much into the far right and to the alt right.
Speaker 1: Why there were guys like ruche Vee and whatnot who
Speaker 1: were initially big in that, who tried to become right
Speaker 1: wing influencers, but nearly all of them failed, in part
Speaker 1: because this was a creature of the older Internet right,
Speaker 1: this pickup artistry stuff, and it didn't really age well
Speaker 1: into the kind of late social media period. And the
Speaker 1: other thing was going on with this is that it's
Speaker 1: not the kind of thing that self selects for people
Speaker 1: who are culture warriors. It self selects for people who
Speaker 1: are like almost throwbacks at this point, to like the
Speaker 1: old Hugh Hefner Playboy era. And Andrew tait Is, I
Speaker 1: don't know if i'd say he's the first, but he's
Speaker 1: the most successful at merging the whole right wing culture
Speaker 1: warrior narrative where you're fighting against the matrix and you're
Speaker 1: fighting for traditional values with a lot of this pickup
Speaker 1: artistry stuff, which you know, that's kind of the that's
Speaker 1: the position that he occupies. Now. This used to be
Speaker 1: the PhD used to be something he advertised on his
Speaker 1: major website, but because of all of the lawsuits against him,
Speaker 1: you can't find the degree being advertised normally, so it's
Speaker 1: pushed entirely in private through the real world, and the
Speaker 1: BBC got access to a number of these internal ads.
Speaker 1: These are like slide shows where Andrew's trying to convince
Speaker 1: these young men who are already locked into like the
Speaker 1: most basic stage of his platform, that they should join
Speaker 1: the war room and pay it eight grand a month.
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna share here. It's eight grand a month
Speaker 1: or a grand a year, sorry year, Yeah, either way,
Speaker 1: that's so so much money.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So this first slide just says, will the PhD system
Speaker 1: change your life? And it's above four pictures of a
Speaker 1: mix of it's like Andrew usually sitting and sipping a
Speaker 1: drink or wearing fucking shorts leaved shirt next to different
Speaker 1: various young women. Right, will the PhD system change your life?
Speaker 1: Do you have a girl who completely trust your decisions,
Speaker 1: will do anything you say, and loves you deeply? Yes
Speaker 1: or no? If your answer is yes, I guarantee ninety percent.
Speaker 1: If you are lying to yourselves, read the question again.
Speaker 1: Understand what I mean when I say anything and ask
Speaker 1: yourself if you've ever tested that your belief. If your
Speaker 1: answer is no, you're missing out on one of life's
Speaker 1: greatest pleasures. Doesn't matter your age. You should have a
Speaker 1: loving girlfriend. If you're too busy to get one good
Speaker 1: the PhD system was made for you. If you're happy
Speaker 1: touching your own dick, this power is not for you.
Speaker 1: So you see who he's advertising for here, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: these guys are like, well, I could spend sixteen hours
Speaker 1: at a computer, but like, I don't want to go
Speaker 1: out and like actually make a connection with somebody. Right,
Speaker 1: And there's little bits of no fap in there. There's
Speaker 1: so many different little corners of the creep Internet that
Speaker 1: come together in making Andrew tait final thoughts. I will
Speaker 1: be teaching you every step to building a girl who
Speaker 1: is submissive, loyal, and in love with you, from your
Speaker 1: first message to testing if you want to keep her
Speaker 1: to as long as you want the relationship to go on.
Speaker 1: I am the most capable man in the world to
Speaker 1: teach you this power, and I am one hundred percent
Speaker 1: confident in my program. I have a warning. There's responsibility
Speaker 1: when you have someone completely loyal to you. I've had
Speaker 1: some girls from over a decade. When someone gives themselves
Speaker 1: to you completely, their life path is in your hands.
Speaker 1: Be wise. And then there's a little box at the
Speaker 1: bottom that says joined the PhD program. Yeah, and then at.
Speaker 2: Least he's teaching them to be responsible with that kind
Speaker 2: of power.
Speaker 1: Sure, you've gotta be responsible when you come to own
Speaker 1: a woman via using Andrew Tate's mind domination program. And
Speaker 1: then the last slide here is what exactly do you
Speaker 1: get with the PhD programs? This is a big ad
Speaker 1: slide hours of video content. Well, I will teach you
Speaker 1: how to text women, how to build your social media
Speaker 1: is to pick up women, best first dates, to bring
Speaker 1: women on, best follow up dates, how to approach women.
Speaker 1: The framework that in all that all male female interactions
Speaker 1: are based on how to see if a woman is
Speaker 1: high quality? My opening line had to get women in
Speaker 1: bed the critical mistakes most when men make, how to
Speaker 1: stay on her mind without interaction.
Speaker 3: How to see if a woman is high quality?
Speaker 1: Yes, Now, if you've watched Always Sonny in Philadelphia. The
Speaker 1: degree to which all of this mirrors the Dinnist system,
Speaker 1: which is one of the characters is a creepy sex
Speaker 1: criminal and has like a flirtato like it's it's one
Speaker 1: for one, Like there's pretty it's literally one for one.
Speaker 4: Jesus Christ, you know what else is one for one?
Speaker 1: Robert, Speaking of one for one, I'll give you one
Speaker 1: ad break in exchange for one chunk of listening to
Speaker 1: my podcast. And we're back.
Speaker 5: Ah.
Speaker 1: So we're talking about Andrew Tait, mind control wizard, you
Speaker 1: know who's he's just like, you know, this is again
Speaker 1: like I bring up the dinnist system, but this is
Speaker 1: all what's kind of interesting to me is he clearly
Speaker 1: to put this together. He the people who made this
Speaker 1: spent a great deal of time combing the Internet for
Speaker 1: the last twenty years of different get rich quick and
Speaker 1: like flirt with like like flirting with women, like pick
Speaker 1: up artists, scams and all that stuff. Like there's a
Speaker 1: whole generation of like creepy dude, kind of right wing
Speaker 1: adjacent content, and he's just an aggregator. It's like somebody
Speaker 1: put the last twenty years of like dudes being assholes
Speaker 1: on the Internet that led us directly to Trump and
Speaker 1: like use chat ept to remix it into a guy
Speaker 1: with bad tattoos. So I find that I find that
Speaker 1: very interesting. Yeah, Now the stuff I read these kind
Speaker 1: of these clips advertising the PhD system, like the way
Speaker 1: in which he describes it in this advertisement is disgusting.
Speaker 1: But in other interviews he's dropped additional hints about some
Speaker 1: of the curriculum, which does include physical violence. So I
Speaker 1: played that clip earlier about Tate talking about using a
Speaker 1: machete on a woman who caught him cheating, right about
Speaker 1: like you know what happens if she catches you cheating
Speaker 1: and she tries to attack you, and he says, you know,
Speaker 1: hit her in the face of the machete.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 1: This is something he talks about a lot, and it's
Speaker 1: it's this this mix of like stuff like that, these
Speaker 1: like extreme this extreme violence, and then these tactics that
Speaker 1: are almost like quaint, right, Like he one thing he'll
Speaker 1: tell people to do is to start your relationship with
Speaker 1: ordering by ordering the woman in question to bring you
Speaker 1: a box of chocolates. H And at first I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: is this just this is just like very basic, like
Speaker 1: almost fifties era stuff, But no, it's it turns out
Speaker 1: it's more related to like this neuro linguistic programming technique
Speaker 1: where you get someone doing you favors and you use
Speaker 1: that to ask them to do other favors. And Tate
Speaker 1: clearly he doesn't even really seem to grasp much of
Speaker 1: like the underlying logic here because when he there's there's
Speaker 1: male BBC journalists who tries to interview him for this
Speaker 1: documentary on this leaked stuff. Wants to interview Tate, and
Speaker 1: Tate does the same thing, tries to get him to
Speaker 1: bring a box of chocolates and hand them directly to
Speaker 1: Andrew and the journalist that's like talk to his editors
Speaker 1: to see it. And there's this whole weird It's what
Speaker 1: he's trying to do is he's trying to establish a
Speaker 1: pattern of obedience because he thinks that lets him manipulate people.
Speaker 1: That it's like this hack to get into someone's brain.
Speaker 1: If you get them doing one favor to you, they'll
Speaker 1: do other favors to you. This is very old power
Speaker 1: of positive thinking, salesmanship kind of stuff. You'll get this
Speaker 1: in stuff going back to the nineteen fifties, including a
Speaker 1: lot of like the Norman Vincent Peeale shit that Donald
Speaker 1: Trump was being raised on as a kid. I've seen
Speaker 1: versions of this that go back decades and the thing
Speaker 1: you're supposed to do. As time goes on, you're supposed
Speaker 1: to give the subject of your focus more tasks, and
Speaker 1: you let your language get increasingly strict. You start by
Speaker 1: asking like, hey, would you do this for me, and
Speaker 1: you in by giving them commands right where like, this
Speaker 1: is what we're doing today, this is your job for
Speaker 1: the day, this is what you have to do for
Speaker 1: the day. And at the same time, and this is
Speaker 1: the thing that I think actually makes much more of
Speaker 1: an impact effectively. You're also supposed to be isolating your
Speaker 1: target from their family and social support network, so you're
Speaker 1: getting them in the habit of doing things that you say,
Speaker 1: and you're also cutting them off from their friends and
Speaker 1: family so they don't have anyone else in their life.
Speaker 2: But you I want people who would ostensibly be like, hey,
Speaker 2: what are you doing? This is kind of sucking weird.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're doing everything this guy tells you. Are you
Speaker 1: working sixteen hours a day? Like on doing an only
Speaker 1: fans that he gets the money from, Like that seems
Speaker 1: kind of fucked up. Now, I want to play you
Speaker 1: a clip linked leaked from one of these in person
Speaker 1: seminars he gives on mentally dominating women. The question he's
Speaker 1: asked right before giving this answer, is can you say
Speaker 1: more about the restrictions and boundaries that you put on
Speaker 1: a woman in terms of who she can talk.
Speaker 4: To trigger warning Andrew Tate's voice.
Speaker 6: Well, her family, right, she really strong, soial, So that's all.
Speaker 5: No more around saying and then we're gonna catch that's
Speaker 5: all business their side story. Only you're about nine out.
Speaker 5: Why that line just pass? It gets in there. It's
Speaker 5: not time And the things we're talking about us are excitement.
Speaker 5: He never catching all these things time into ice and
Speaker 5: taking away from the house, every house.
Speaker 1: All.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I hate this guy.
Speaker 3: So disgusting, the smallest little man in the world because
Speaker 3: women won't shut the fuck up.
Speaker 4: It's like, well, I.
Speaker 1: Mean it's it's taking this very basic misogyny because you're again,
Speaker 1: his audience is not it's framed aus like we're an
Speaker 1: alliance of powerful men, you know, making sure they're more powerful.
Speaker 1: But his audience is all guys who have never like
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not even guys. It's children, right, it's
Speaker 1: kids on the world. Are you right?
Speaker 3: Are you really powerful if you can't handle your partner
Speaker 3: having Checksnos, a friend.
Speaker 1: Friend, no, No, But like this is these people. Most
Speaker 1: of these people have never had partners, right and and
Speaker 1: the Tate and kind of the older men who are
Speaker 1: running things they've got. They're all jacked. They're all generally
Speaker 1: on gear. They're all they all have like nice tailored clothes.
Speaker 1: They all either have or rent sports cars. And these
Speaker 1: little kids are minds, are just putty in their hands.
Speaker 1: They like see they see the physical symbols of wealth
Speaker 1: that these people have, and they're like, well then they
Speaker 1: must know what they're doing, Like this must all be
Speaker 1: the path to get what I want. And this is
Speaker 1: pretty classic cult leader behavior, both from Tate influencing these
Speaker 1: young people and the stuff he's telling them to do
Speaker 1: to women. Right and he frames this as saying, like,
Speaker 1: there's no perfect girl for you. You have to make her.
Speaker 1: You have to make her using these techniques, right and,
Speaker 1: per a quote from The Daily Dot, which originally published
Speaker 1: a lot of these leaked war room videos. In another
Speaker 1: clip from the same meeting, Tate explains why the woman
Speaker 1: his members want to date should not have normal jobs.
Speaker 1: If she has a normal job, she's got a social circle,
Speaker 1: she's got a support network, Tate, the moones, She's having
Speaker 1: a bunch of conversations you don't know about. She knows
Speaker 1: a bunch of dudes who are trying to get in
Speaker 1: her ear. No, she has concerns which aren't involving you, right,
Speaker 1: and that's a problem. Tate says. Her brain power is
Speaker 1: dedicated to things that have nothing to do with you.
Speaker 1: It's a massive influence. And there is this like deep insecurity,
Speaker 1: right that if you will anything else in you cause
Speaker 1: you're going to be you're going to make her miserable.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 1: You have no desire or intention to actually like be
Speaker 1: in a relationship with someone or provide them with anything
Speaker 1: they need. You're preerly trying to take things from them,
Speaker 1: and it's obvious that's not going to make anyone happy.
Speaker 1: I wanted to run through another section of this curriculum
Speaker 1: from Tate's PhD. So this is from that same clip
Speaker 1: that gets played around a lot of Andrew Tate talking
Speaker 1: about hitting women with a machete. What's not usually played
Speaker 1: in the context when people discuss this, because I've seen
Speaker 1: like all of the big interviews that he's done recently,
Speaker 1: he gets asked about this. What's not played is that
Speaker 1: this is him talking about like one of the physical
Speaker 1: tests that you have to pass in order to get
Speaker 1: this PhD degree. And I really wish people would talk
Speaker 1: about this because this is kind of one of the
Speaker 1: more like fucked up things I've heard about in relation
Speaker 1: to what Tate is actually trying to teach the people
Speaker 1: who take his classes.
Speaker 5: And what about my PhD.
Speaker 1: We had to practice if a girl comes.
Speaker 6: At you and you cheat it, you cheat it, it's
Speaker 6: bang on the machete, boom in her face.
Speaker 1: This is the actual full context is like this is
Speaker 1: part of a test you have to like in order
Speaker 1: to pass this degree. You have to take a physical
Speaker 1: test on how you would defend yourself against one of
Speaker 1: these women you're trafficking, catching youat cheating, Like that's the
Speaker 1: actual context of.
Speaker 2: All of this insane.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty nuts. Yeah, like just the fact that
Speaker 1: like you're building in well, obviously your people are going
Speaker 1: to get attacked because the stuff that they're they're doing
Speaker 1: is so like incredibly gross. We have to try and
Speaker 1: like train them to fight these women that were also
Speaker 1: teaching them to try and like mentally dominate, which is
Speaker 1: simultaneously this admission that like the tactics don't work that well.
Speaker 3: So you're going, yeah, his stance there, if I'm understanding correctly,
Speaker 3: is if woman speaks in a way you don't like,
Speaker 3: you slice them. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exciting, and you have to train people to
Speaker 1: slice them. Yeah machete, Yeah yeah, with your terrible machete.
Speaker 1: And that's why you have it. It's not because you're
Speaker 1: being targeted by the deep state and the matrix. It's
Speaker 1: because your girlfriends are going to get angry at you
Speaker 1: and you have to be able to hit them.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: That's insane.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So giving speeches like this and this is like
Speaker 1: part of the curriculum for this this PhD program, you know,
Speaker 1: sold on in the real world and operated as a
Speaker 1: prerequisite for getting into the war room. Making stuff like
Speaker 1: this is how Tate makes his money now. Right, He
Speaker 1: is not primarily in the pimping business anymore because that
Speaker 1: doesn't make nearly is It's an MLM thing, right, It's
Speaker 1: an MLM that sells being a pimp.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 1: This is the same as like Douterra or whatever. But
Speaker 1: your business is like coercing women in the working on
Speaker 1: camera for you. And Tate's at the top now, so
Speaker 1: he doesn't have to actually have to do that. There's
Speaker 1: much more money in making content like this. Now, the
Speaker 1: purpose of all of these programs is to get people
Speaker 1: to buy other classes, right, that's what's really sold. The
Speaker 1: real world's fifty bucks a month, but if you want
Speaker 1: to get this degree, it's another four hundred dollars. The
Speaker 1: war rooms eight grand a year. But there are access
Speaker 1: to additional secret chat rooms that cost thousands of additional
Speaker 1: dollars a year, right, And there's access to classes that
Speaker 1: cost thousands more. And there's all these in person gatherings
Speaker 1: that cost money. And one of Tate's mottos is that
Speaker 1: no great man ever ever got there on his own, right,
Speaker 1: so's he says, like, you need these, you need to
Speaker 1: be part of this network. And it's all so familiar
Speaker 1: to like the mL the standard MLN schema when you
Speaker 1: really look at it like that. And that's what's really
Speaker 1: changed my understanding of Tate from this is an influencer
Speaker 1: who is mobilizing his fan base to make himself more famous,
Speaker 1: to this is a guy who, whatever his initial goal was,
Speaker 1: he's now amway. He's now the amway of hitting women, right, Like,
Speaker 1: That's that's what Andrew Tate's businesses.
Speaker 3: It's got Keith Ranieri energy Yeah.
Speaker 1: We'll talk a little bit about Keith Ranieri, because there's
Speaker 1: a lot of Keith Ranieri to Andrew Tait, and I
Speaker 1: think to some extent it's maybe if Tate had come
Speaker 1: up in an earlier era, before all the anti woke
Speaker 1: stuff got as big as it was, before the far
Speaker 1: right was ascendant, he would have tried more for the
Speaker 1: culturally kind of like left wing image that a guy
Speaker 1: like Ranieri cultivated, where like no, no, no, I'm part
Speaker 1: of like this progressive movement empowering women. I think Andrew
Speaker 1: might have gone in that direction, he probably wouldn't have
Speaker 1: been as successful because I think he's just kind of
Speaker 1: inherently also a dick, but he's he he's certainly shaped
Speaker 1: by like the tides of history around him. Now, former
Speaker 1: members of the War Room not only are they being
Speaker 1: kind of taught to groom these women that they're trafficking
Speaker 1: in a culty way, they also described the war Room
Speaker 1: as a cult itself. And the basis of that BBC
Speaker 1: report is that the leader of the actual cult inside
Speaker 1: the War Room isn't even Tait. He's just the figurehead,
Speaker 1: the individual responsible for most of this content and curriculum
Speaker 1: and for the culture of the platform is a completely
Speaker 1: different guy who goes by the pseudonym Iggy simmelweis in
Speaker 1: the war room, right, And I'm not one hundred percent
Speaker 1: in agreement with the BBC on the how much this
Speaker 1: guy is actually running things behind the scenes, but he's
Speaker 1: certainly a major figure. He is a real person. Will
Speaker 1: give his real name. His nickname is odd to me.
Speaker 1: When I first heard Iggy Simolwiz, I was like, that
Speaker 1: sounds familiar, and me being me, whenever I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: that guy's name sounds familiar, my assumption is like, so
Speaker 1: he's some sort of Nazi, right, Like this is some
Speaker 1: sort of guy. But I look him up and I
Speaker 1: remember where I read about him from because he's someone
Speaker 1: I've intended to tell his story on bastards for a while.
Speaker 1: He's actually not a bastard, but there's a lot of
Speaker 1: awful stuff in his story. Ignat simbilwise was a real
Speaker 1: guy and a really the precise opposite of a bad guy.
Speaker 1: He was a he was a Hungarian German doctor, and
Speaker 1: he's the guy who was basically first in like an
Speaker 1: organized way making the scientific case for like, hey, we
Speaker 1: should use an as sceptics. You know, people always die
Speaker 1: when we give surgery or we cut off their limbs.
Speaker 1: What if we like cleaned things first, what if we
Speaker 1: cleared this song?
Speaker 4: Great? What a great idea, my guy. Yeah, great idea.
Speaker 2: Sounds like a good guy.
Speaker 1: He was a good guy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he was who.
Speaker 3: Really really really really really likes hand sanitizer.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Wellay, symbol Weis is the father of hands out. He's
Speaker 1: also the father. He was the first major figure who
Speaker 1: was like a respected Western scientist to be like, surgeons
Speaker 1: and doctors should probably wash their fucking hands right.
Speaker 4: Clean is somebody who unfortunately surgery this year. Thank you,
Speaker 4: my guy.
Speaker 1: Wow, now you say it at Sophie, but it turns
Speaker 1: out that no, he was fine. But at a certain
Speaker 1: period of time, telling doctors that they needed to wash
Speaker 1: their hands was very dangerous because if you're telling doctors, hey,
Speaker 1: before you reach your hand into someone's chest cavity, you
Speaker 1: should like wash it with like soap and stuff, you're
Speaker 1: telling doctors your hands are covered in germs that get
Speaker 1: people sick. And doctors are better than regular people, right,
Speaker 1: they are educated gentlemen. And if you're telling an educated gentleman,
Speaker 1: you're dirty and you might get a poor person sick
Speaker 1: by touching inside of their body. That is deeply offensive,
Speaker 1: and it really pissed off a lot of people, so
Speaker 1: many that Simowiz was hounded into a like hounded into
Speaker 1: like having a mental break and then forced into a
Speaker 1: mental asylum where he was beaten by guards and died
Speaker 1: of an infected injury because because they were washing their
Speaker 1: fucking hands.
Speaker 3: I mean, god, I do get a lot of joy
Speaker 3: when I know something that my doctor brother doesn't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like the father of being, Like, wash your fucking hands, people, God,
Speaker 1: now everybody.
Speaker 3: Just so tiny, just so tiny, wash your hands.
Speaker 4: I mean they do it.
Speaker 1: Now, they got around do it. We just had to
Speaker 1: lose illuminary first. Now again, the pick this name. I
Speaker 1: don't understand that. I don't know because he has nothing
Speaker 1: to do with this guy right, other than maybe he
Speaker 1: feels like he I guess I could make a clickcase
Speaker 1: that like, oh, he probably sees the world he's in
Speaker 1: is filled with like germs, which is, you know, other
Speaker 1: people having rights, And maybe he's the he's he's the
Speaker 1: persecuted doctor who like sees the way things should be.
Speaker 3: Step away from the computer screen, touch grass, go to therapy.
Speaker 1: No, I don't want this guy to go do anything.
Speaker 1: The real dude is an American named Miles Sonkin, Right,
Speaker 1: that's the actual guy.
Speaker 3: Who Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1: I don't know, weird little guy. The BBC got access
Speaker 1: to a bunch of leaked chats for its documentary The
Speaker 1: Man Who Groomed the World. The journalists behind it, Matt Say,
Speaker 1: came up with the opinion that Sonkan is the brains
Speaker 1: and the igeological weight behind Tate's whole war room operation.
Speaker 1: And he makes a pretty good case. Again, I disagree
Speaker 1: with aspects of Shay has put more time into this
Speaker 1: than I have, and he spent a lot of time
Speaker 1: around Tait. He's met Sonkan in person, He's met a
Speaker 1: number of key figures here. Somebody yield to his expertise,
Speaker 1: even though I'm not sure I agree with him entirely.
Speaker 1: And we'll talk about who this guy is, but first
Speaker 1: let's talk about who our advertisers are, other than great people,
Speaker 1: which they are. Sonkan was born in Chicago nineteen sixty one,
Speaker 1: and he's been described in interviews by family members as
Speaker 1: a smart kid. And here's the most dangerous word we
Speaker 1: ever used on the show. He was also an autodidact. Right,
Speaker 1: So he's this kid who learns a lot on his
Speaker 1: own and doesn't really go to high school but educates himself. Now, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: when you do that, there tend to be holes in
Speaker 1: your education.
Speaker 2: I feel get pretty siloed into some Yeah.
Speaker 1: This is one of our great problems, is that if
Speaker 1: the things you're interested in wind up being worth a
Speaker 1: lot of money, you can get by never learning about
Speaker 1: anything else and also convincing yourself that you understand the
Speaker 1: world because you've made a lot of money. And I
Speaker 1: think that's kind of what's going to happen to Sonken.
Speaker 1: And he pays an initial he pays initially some like
Speaker 1: consequences for it because he immediately gets.
Speaker 4: Cited in a picture of the guy. That's why his
Speaker 4: face is doing that.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah he does. He does look like a wizard, right,
Speaker 1: he looks like an evil wizard.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's so bad. This beard is terrible.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, I'll believe he's using the fucking dnnist
Speaker 1: system to get his get himself a harem.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, Malcolm, please insert a picture here, please, there's
Speaker 3: there's a good one.
Speaker 4: You'll know which one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, wizard. So his self education makes him kind of
Speaker 1: vulnerable to getting taken advantage of as a young man,
Speaker 1: and as a result, he joins two different cults right
Speaker 1: when he's a young person. Are sially two different organizations
Speaker 1: widely regarded as colts, and the second is the Rajniche movement,
Speaker 1: who was the focus of the Netflix documentary Wild Wild Country.
Speaker 1: So he gets sucked into that for a while as
Speaker 1: a young man, and I think like the eighties night,
Speaker 1: late eighties or nineties now the details of his specific
Speaker 1: involvement in either cult are not available at this time,
Speaker 1: but over the years Son can evolve from a spiritual
Speaker 1: seeker into someone who believed that he in fact had
Speaker 1: the answers. During the early age of the social Internet,
Speaker 1: he became a pick up artist and was one of
Speaker 1: the first prominent ones online serting like the late nineties
Speaker 1: early two thousands, he's like on the ground flow or
Speaker 1: of pick up artistry as like an online subculture. He
Speaker 1: gets really interested in hypnosis and neurolinguistic programming alongside this,
Speaker 1: and he began become an advocate of mind controlling women
Speaker 1: by repeating certain words and phrases. You might recognize this
Speaker 1: as Pavlovian training. Applied to dating, and he seems to
Speaker 1: be the origin of Tates. You know, get him to
Speaker 1: bring you chocolate, you know, establish a pattern of obedience
Speaker 1: in order to break their ability to think separately from you. Now.
Speaker 1: Sonken is also a self described wizard. He believes he's
Speaker 1: literally casting spells on people. He does that to this
Speaker 1: journalist when he tries to like interview Andrew Tait, Well,
Speaker 1: he does have like a little bit of a Sarramon
Speaker 1: if Saramon got his hair down behind a seven to
Speaker 1: eleven block. Sonken is a self described wizard, and as
Speaker 1: he got into magic, he got more interested in the
Speaker 1: self in the more esoteric segments of the far right
Speaker 1: through the early aughts, the like weird hitlerism shit, and
Speaker 1: this is a growing up kind of the most part
Speaker 1: before people become super aware of it and then Gamergate
Speaker 1: helps flood a lot of it and then the alt right.
Speaker 1: Sonken is kind of right in the middle of that.
Speaker 1: He and Tate seem to have started working together in
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, and at this point, Andrew Tate is basically
Speaker 1: a late undergrowth of the pickup artist community focused on
Speaker 1: camera sex work type stuff. It's unclear how Miles is
Speaker 1: involved with him, but I think he probably helps to
Speaker 1: write and formulate a lot of the courses that Andrew
Speaker 1: was selling during this period. A former member of the
Speaker 1: war Room, which was established in twenty nineteen, describes Iggy
Speaker 1: as at the top and the real leader of the platform,
Speaker 1: and it's you know, I don't know if I like
Speaker 1: taking away credit from Tate for being, you know, a
Speaker 1: puppet master, but these guys are both definitely partners, you know.
Speaker 1: And the kind of things Tate's teaching a lot of
Speaker 1: these are not things he came up with himself or
Speaker 1: wrote himself. They think similwise kind of had on deck
Speaker 1: that Tate decided to slap his name on. And even
Speaker 1: this has layers right when a former member described the
Speaker 1: war Room as a bunch of telegram chats, some for
Speaker 1: business or girls or money, but there are more prestigious
Speaker 1: rooms that users who have already put in thousands of
Speaker 1: dollars are expected to shill out thousands more to join
Speaker 1: in messages on the Warroom telegram we can see song
Speaker 1: and posting as similwize and giving the same advice Tate
Speaker 1: gives from that speech we listened to earlier, And this
Speaker 1: is a message from him to war reim members. Isolating
Speaker 1: her from her family, friends, past is the kindest thing
Speaker 1: you can do for her if you are taking responsibility
Speaker 1: for having sole authority over her.
Speaker 2: And then in.
Speaker 1: Another post, we deliberately reduce attention and note if she chases,
Speaker 1: then we set up a coffee date and execute a
Speaker 1: move to find if she's willing to pay for our
Speaker 1: coffee and serve us. After that, it becomes a series
Speaker 1: of gradual steps to remove her entire support structure from
Speaker 1: her life. Then we punish her for a transgression real
Speaker 1: or imagined by having her get our name tattooed on her,
Speaker 1: leaving her family's home, apartment, town country, webcamming, and stripping
Speaker 1: walking the track for us, getting us girls. Escalate, Escalate, escalate.
Speaker 1: So this is really Keith Ranierie stuff doing the branding
Speaker 1: thing right where you have to get tattoos or scarify
Speaker 1: yourself with the name of this guy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's pretty gross.
Speaker 1: It's pretty gross. Now, I think it'd be wise if
Speaker 1: you wanted to do so, to view the war Room
Speaker 1: and the real world as kind of a modern day
Speaker 1: answer to the Church of Scientology.
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, there's so many parallels. I was thinking that
Speaker 2: this entire time.
Speaker 1: A ton of parallels, and obviously Hubbard is a reflection
Speaker 1: of the big self help culture of his time. The
Speaker 1: scientology starts off as an offshoot of the self improvement
Speaker 1: movement with a book called Dianetics, which instructed readers on
Speaker 1: a series of exercises that would clear them of trauma
Speaker 1: and bad habits and make them superhuman. One of the
Speaker 1: dominant subcultures of the early Internet age, as I've said,
Speaker 1: was the pickup artist scene, and the inherent scamminess of
Speaker 1: a lot of this culture influenced the growth of the
Speaker 1: modern YouTube scam economy, as well as the ecosystem of
Speaker 1: far right content creators who helped break the Trump administration.
Speaker 1: So it does make sense that Tait and Sonkean would
Speaker 1: form a cult What is at its around what is
Speaker 1: at its essence rebranded pickup artistry. The BBC documentary makes
Speaker 1: it sound like this was all Sonkan's plan from the beginning,
Speaker 1: and it quotes former members who described his ultimate goal
Speaker 1: as world domination through the spread of his ideology. Right,
Speaker 1: he wants to get this to everybody. He wants to
Speaker 1: take over the world with this, and I but Also,
Speaker 1: how is anyone going to make money with their camera
Speaker 1: businesses in that future? Sure, it's like if you wanted
Speaker 1: to take over the world by building a bunch of
Speaker 1: tire shops, well, at a certain point your tire shops
Speaker 1: aren't going to be worth any money. There's two Do
Speaker 1: you not understand supply and demand? I don't know, not
Speaker 1: the most logical.
Speaker 3: Uh movement math not adding up at all?
Speaker 1: Yeah, the maths not really adding up. So Samuel Quinone's
Speaker 1: was interviewed for a Vice article. This is a He
Speaker 1: is a founding member of the War Room, but says
Speaker 1: that he quit about six months in because quote, I
Speaker 1: recognize the upselling of useless courses and events, much like
Speaker 1: an MLM.
Speaker 3: Okay and okay, so dumbino hard enough to leave.
Speaker 1: Yeah right. There's another guy who's like, yeah, I was
Speaker 1: working on their socials for a while. I didn't realize
Speaker 1: there were trafficking women. And the interview asked like, do
Speaker 1: you feel bad for that? And he's like, well, no,
Speaker 1: I didn't really know what was going on. Okay, man,
Speaker 1: I don't know. There were still some unknowns, such as
Speaker 1: how much financial advantage is taken of in the warm
Speaker 1: Inner Circle members. Right, we don't know if Andrew's getting
Speaker 1: money from each of these guys in the war room,
Speaker 1: a cut of their profits from, you know, trafficking women.
Speaker 1: We do know that about one percent of the people
Speaker 1: who join actually get a lot of money, which is
Speaker 1: not super different from amway.
Speaker 5: Right. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was gonna ask, like, were there any like success
Speaker 2: stories or people who actually did get rich from this,
Speaker 2: and it sounds like no.
Speaker 1: It's hard to really tell, but I mean, I'm sure
Speaker 1: there are definitely people making money from having women do
Speaker 1: this for them, but anyone who winds up net in
Speaker 1: the black is fairly rare. Mahmood, a former member, told
Speaker 1: Vice there was no that was making any real money,
Speaker 1: he said, citing conversations he had with other students in
Speaker 1: the platform's chat rooms and the empty win section on
Speaker 1: most users' profiles attract a lack of earnings. These people
Speaker 1: inside there that are reliving, that are leaving their schools
Speaker 1: the units to pursue this, he said, adding that one
Speaker 1: of his friends on the platform told him that he
Speaker 1: had abandoned his university studies to go all in on
Speaker 1: the program. Oh no, I don't know. I don't know, Like,
Speaker 1: if you could be convinced not to go to university
Speaker 1: because you're hoping that like you could become the next
Speaker 1: Andrew Tate. Maybe you shouldn't be getting whatever degree you
Speaker 1: were getting.
Speaker 3: Right, there's this like trend on TikTok right now that's like,
Speaker 3: uh needed I just needed a hug thing. It's like, yeah, fuck,
Speaker 3: did something did something like crazy, but really just needed
Speaker 3: a hug.
Speaker 4: And it's just so many of these things. I'm like,
Speaker 4: you just need like.
Speaker 3: One person like aware, like one person being aware of
Speaker 3: what was going on your left be like hey no no, no, no,
Speaker 3: no no, that's an MLM, or like uh no no no, no,
Speaker 3: no no no manosphere, manosphere or no.
Speaker 4: No no, no no no. We don't abuse women.
Speaker 1: And the thing that you're being kind of continually pushed
Speaker 1: to do in the real world is put out more
Speaker 1: videos that will get more people to subscribe to Tate services.
Speaker 1: And if you get out enough, if you have a
Speaker 1: certain people watching you, you get affiliate status, right, which
Speaker 1: is where you get a cut of people who join
Speaker 1: and you pay inditate programs through your videos. So top
Speaker 1: war room generals act as social enforcers, using humiliation to
Speaker 1: force young men to go into war mode, where they
Speaker 1: would labor for days off in sixteen to twenty hours
Speaker 1: at a time with very little sleep in order to
Speaker 1: make tate content go viral. States were required to post
Speaker 1: four to six videos a day and harassed with their
Speaker 1: if their metrics weren't good enough. And you know, I
Speaker 1: would make more about how horrible this is, but a
Speaker 1: lot of this just sounds out how like working about
Speaker 1: Facebook is right now, So I don't know, could be
Speaker 1: a better boss, could be worse both. In the war
Speaker 1: Room itself, discussion tended to focus around sharing clips of
Speaker 1: text with messages from different women members who were pursued
Speaker 1: from different women that members were pursuing or trying to
Speaker 1: converse into what we would call trafficking. The most granular
Speaker 1: write up of how people converse in the War Room
Speaker 1: documentary and the War Room come from the substack of
Speaker 1: a guide called Crabman, who is the source for the
Speaker 1: NBC's documentary. Right. He brings them some of these leaked
Speaker 1: documents and he takes great pains to break down what's
Speaker 1: going in in the on aage of these discussions. In
Speaker 1: one chat in the Great Hall, which seems to be
Speaker 1: a general discussion area, Tristan described how well trained Andrew's
Speaker 1: girls are and that girls who don't play ball are expelled.
Speaker 1: Crabman rights, here's the thing. It's all the game to Andrew.
Speaker 1: He tells our warroom members, you have to risk it
Speaker 1: all by losing to get to the next bet. Sometimes
Speaker 1: you lose. I've lost.
Speaker 2: Girls.
Speaker 1: Doesn't always work, but that's why you got to find
Speaker 1: new ones. And the ones that it does work for,
Speaker 1: those are the ones you keep. That's just how you
Speaker 1: build a good harem of girls, you know, because some
Speaker 1: girls just like it. Some girls system the system works,
Speaker 1: but if we have another guy, they kind of have,
Speaker 1: like or whatever, outside influences. Sometimes you do them when
Speaker 1: you play hardball. But I play hardball ball anyway because
Speaker 1: it's all I'm interested in. I want the one hundred,
Speaker 1: I don't give want the five, so I'll gamble it.
Speaker 1: That's the basic premise. Romantic yeah prick.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Andrew blames that this PhD test alone, being able to
Speaker 1: defend himself from angry women was fundamental to becoming a millionaire.
Speaker 1: Right a little further down, though, in text within the
Speaker 1: war Room, he complains that nothing he tries works as
Speaker 1: well since he got famous right. Quote girls are too defensive.
Speaker 1: They instantly assume you message every hot girl. It destroys
Speaker 1: destroys PhD success rate seriously, unless you want to be
Speaker 1: a sugar daddy, which I don't. So even he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: now that people know my face, nobody wants anything to
Speaker 1: do with me.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's your face, asshole, That's what it is.
Speaker 2: So he's just like basically admitting that, like, none of
Speaker 2: this shit really works, but you just got to keep
Speaker 2: trying and keep giving me money and yeah you'll get lucky.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So he's breaking that his old techniques don't
Speaker 1: work since he's been verified on social media. Quote girls
Speaker 1: are too defensive. They instantly assume you message every hot
Speaker 1: girl destroys PhD success right, seriously, unless you want to
Speaker 1: be a sugar daddy, which I don't. Other members post
Speaker 1: pictures of cars that they purportedly bought with funds earned
Speaker 1: by their harems, and give blow by blow accounts of
Speaker 1: their own flirtation journeys. A popular thing to post are
Speaker 1: messages from women that the poster has ignored as part
Speaker 1: of Andrew's strategy hinders on denying attention in order to
Speaker 1: build interest. So there's just like clips of women being
Speaker 1: like when are you coming? Hi? Why are you ignoring me?
Speaker 1: And like, see look at this win. I'm not responding
Speaker 1: to this woman that I like. And it's just it's
Speaker 1: both so dumb. Yeah, it's such like pickup artists and
Speaker 1: sell stuff and also such again it's a dentist system.
Speaker 2: Artist.
Speaker 1: It's negging. None of it's new. It's just been repackaged
Speaker 1: in a way that it's been repackaged to sell an MLM. Right,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if this works. Some number of men
Speaker 1: will always I don't know if it's because of the
Speaker 1: individual people they're going after or something about their care,
Speaker 1: their their personal characteristics will be successful enough with this
Speaker 1: to convince themselves that it's worth worth worthwhile. And ninety
Speaker 1: nine percent will have nothing happen, but they'll pay for
Speaker 1: long enough that it makes it worthwhile. Right, It's the
Speaker 1: same thing with like, yes, some people sell Amway products,
Speaker 1: or at least sell a few Amway products and then
Speaker 1: get a lot of people to sign up for Amway,
Speaker 1: and so they do make money. That's just about one
Speaker 1: percent of Amway. Everyone else has kind of taken a bath. Now,
Speaker 1: there's also kind of in the Vernieri vibe. Within these
Speaker 1: kind of like the elite war room chats, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of discussion on how to permanently mark women, which
Speaker 1: is considered the open ultimate sign of success, that like,
Speaker 1: you have gotten this person so in your spell that
Speaker 1: you've gotten them to tattoo your name on their body.
Speaker 1: This seems to be a core aspect of sivil wisest teachings.
Speaker 1: I think he's the main person who introduced this. It's
Speaker 1: kind of unclear to me, but all these guys are
Speaker 1: constantly posting either them a tempting to convince women to
Speaker 1: do this, and you know there's this mix of like
Speaker 1: people saying no and getting dumped. So this message here
Speaker 1: is between like Tate. She's like showing him a tattoo
Speaker 1: that she's got, and he's saying, like, I want you
Speaker 1: to get my name tattooed on you. I don't want
Speaker 1: this like other tattoo. And she's asking him, like when
Speaker 1: will we get married? And he says, you know, now,
Speaker 1: as soon as you get the tattoo, and she's like, okay,
Speaker 1: but then if you leave me, I'll still have your
Speaker 1: name on my body and that's kind of fucked up.
Speaker 1: And he's like, why would I leave? Are you saying
Speaker 1: you're not going to be good to me? There's kind
Speaker 1: of the most at the end here is she Eventually
Speaker 1: he says, yes, it'll make me happy if you get
Speaker 1: this tattoo, and she says, okay, I'll do it. I
Speaker 1: cannot write great. My dad does not have to see.
Speaker 1: So I don't know how old this girl is. Too young,
Speaker 1: it's very young. Again, this is these are the people
Speaker 1: that they are being reached out towards, right.
Speaker 4: These are not adults.
Speaker 1: They're not people who are like, have mature brains.
Speaker 3: Yeah, bigas but Shelby with your fingers, how big?
Speaker 4: I'm very comfortable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gross.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 1: The messages posted here are from back in twenty nineteens.
Speaker 1: This is an older era of the war room, and
Speaker 1: it's hard to say where things are now with the
Speaker 1: culture there. Since the beginning of the litigation against Andrew,
Speaker 1: when he was initially incarcerated, he made a lot of
Speaker 1: claims that his war room friends would watch out for
Speaker 1: his interests and even take care of his stuff while
Speaker 1: he was away. There is an extent to which this
Speaker 1: seems to be true, and we know of the network
Speaker 1: suggest an intricate community and a number of people who
Speaker 1: do have resources and this kind of cult like devotion
Speaker 1: to Andrew and to the group. Now there's been some
Speaker 1: good work done to kind of layout who is involved
Speaker 1: in this community. The BBC documentary did a lot of it.
Speaker 1: Dullingcat did an article on it. One of these guys,
Speaker 1: you know, these people who are like these are both
Speaker 1: folks who are presumably paying Andrew thousands or tens of
Speaker 1: thousands of year a year, but are also like working
Speaker 1: and getting money of their own. You might call them
Speaker 1: the high level amway distributors of the war Room in
Speaker 1: the real world. One of them is a guy who
Speaker 1: has a YouTube channel called Sartorial Shooter. He's a former
Speaker 1: Australian soldier and a current Dubai resident a lot of
Speaker 1: Dubai residencies here, who claims to have gone into the
Speaker 1: intelligence world and worked all around the planet. He claims
Speaker 1: to have weapons and tactics trading facilities everywhere. Now, as
Speaker 1: is always the case with these guys, that's a bit
Speaker 1: of an exaggeration. His real name is Joel Sullivan. He's
Speaker 1: one of the leading lights of the war Room. Bellincat
Speaker 1: revealed that he was a former director of international security
Speaker 1: for a global healthcare company, which is not a nothing job,
Speaker 1: but it's not exactly James Bond.
Speaker 3: He wants you to think he's like out here being.
Speaker 1: He's some sort of like mercenary special operator spines like
Speaker 1: now you worked for like a healthcare company directing security,
Speaker 1: and again there's not nothing that, but it's not quite
Speaker 1: what you're claiming it is exactly. Yeah. Another key general
Speaker 1: of Andrews goes by the Twitter title First Prince of Wudan,
Speaker 1: which will remember is he's got this sort of pretend
Speaker 1: mythic story about how he learned to be a martial
Speaker 1: arts master. The actual guy behind this account is a
Speaker 1: current Delta pilot and a former US Air Force major
Speaker 1: who the BBC detailed posting about his use of Tates
Speaker 1: techniques to try and coerce women into doing sex work
Speaker 1: for his financial benefit. Yeah, it's all just like the
Speaker 1: grossest dudes. Like some of them do have money, so
Speaker 1: it is like, it's not like these are like the
Speaker 1: people at the top. Number one, they're generally people who
Speaker 1: have had a degree of success before getting involved in
Speaker 1: andrew Tates things. So number one, they have some money
Speaker 1: of their own, so they're able to like bootstrap themselves
Speaker 1: until they can make money getting you know, affiliates, basically
Speaker 1: pulling people in and selling them on subscriptions which they
Speaker 1: seem to get a cut of. And they're also just
Speaker 1: people who have been more successful. They're older, so they
Speaker 1: can kind of replicate some degree of the scams that
Speaker 1: Andrew has carried out. And I really think like that's
Speaker 1: all that's going on here with these guys. None of
Speaker 1: them are. Andrew wants them to look like they're like
Speaker 1: the secret masters of the world, and they're not that.
Speaker 1: They're guys who are probably making like mid to low
Speaker 1: six figure salaries, like they're doing well. They've got positions
Speaker 1: that afford them a decent degree of income and they
Speaker 1: want to be more. And so I think a lot
Speaker 1: of this for them and why it's worth, you know,
Speaker 1: a pilot that kind of income you can afford to
Speaker 1: throw eight grand at some shit like this, especially if
Speaker 1: you're making some of it back through whatever the affiliate
Speaker 1: scheme pays you, and maybe the fantasy of being part
Speaker 1: of this like elite group of men is worth more
Speaker 1: to you than whatever amount of money that you kind
Speaker 1: of burn going on.
Speaker 2: It's like speaks to a larger issue, like it's not
Speaker 2: about the money for them or like trying to get rich.
Speaker 2: It's like a deeper issue like the control of women
Speaker 2: and manipulating people and everything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Now there's a lot that I could
Speaker 1: really get into, like more stuff about all this here.
Speaker 1: One of the more difficult parts of doing this was
Speaker 1: knowing how to what to cut out and what to include.
Speaker 1: I do want to note one thing, which is that
Speaker 1: some of the one of my favorite uh uh, one
Speaker 1: of my favorite side facts of this is there's some
Speaker 1: messages that Tristan Tate posts to the warm about how
Speaker 1: a guy named Ivan Throne is crashing on their couch
Speaker 1: in Romania. Have either of you heard of Ivan Thrown No,
Speaker 1: So he's he's he's a really low grade man fluencer hack.
Speaker 1: He's like a big bearded dude who always poses in
Speaker 1: like a suit or he's got like kind of like
Speaker 1: a fucking go tee. He always poses in a suit.
Speaker 1: He wrote this book about like the dark triad Man,
Speaker 1: which is like, I know, using the power of sociopathy
Speaker 1: in order to like make yourself a better business leader
Speaker 1: or whatnot. And he used to do he did. He
Speaker 1: had a tight style griff that just didn't do well
Speaker 1: called throne Dynamics, where like men would pay to go
Speaker 1: to these summits where they'd eat steak and smoke cigars
Speaker 1: and talk about, you know, make connections about their their
Speaker 1: great businesses, which are again mostly like pick up artistry,
Speaker 1: like right wing like like low grade right wing propaganda bullshit.
Speaker 1: And the reason I bring up Ivan is that he
Speaker 1: was part of my favorite moment in the history of Twitter.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to share that with you. So he
Speaker 1: posts a picture of there's this like very photorealistic statue
Speaker 1: of like a beautiful young white lady with long flowing hair.
Speaker 1: The fabric work on the statue is really nice, Like
Speaker 1: you can see she's got this sheer shirt. It's like
Speaker 1: it's it's like a sexy sculpture right, Like it's definitely
Speaker 1: meant to be and anost she's gotten nipples.
Speaker 2: It's provocative.
Speaker 1: It's provocative, and even posts this to his Twitter account
Speaker 1: and says, this is called art. This is the legacy
Speaker 1: and heritage of the West. This is what the men
Speaker 1: of the West fight, sacrifice and die for. This is
Speaker 1: victory hashtag deis volt and one of his followers asks him,
Speaker 1: is there an example of a female sculptor who committed
Speaker 1: himself to the same level of detail that a man
Speaker 1: does with a woman. And Ivan responds, none that come
Speaker 1: to mind. That sculpture's an act of worship before Heaven
Speaker 1: and it shows. And someone just responds with a picture
Speaker 1: of the artist next to its sculptor and says, the
Speaker 1: sculptor is a Chinese woman, You dorkass looseness fucking knocked
Speaker 1: he and he just like that was it for Ivan,
Speaker 1: Like I understand why he's crashing on Andrew tates couch
Speaker 1: for a while, because that just fucking nukes him as
Speaker 1: a human, going and learning that like Tristan Tates his buddy,
Speaker 1: and he was like bumming like CouchSurfing with the Tates
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen twenty. Extremely fucking funny to me. Now.
Speaker 1: One of the other things that's kind of missed, the
Speaker 1: great mysteries that's answered from these leaks is why Andrew
Speaker 1: keeps coming back tromania, which I had to have to
Speaker 1: admit as I kept looking through like what he's doing,
Speaker 1: what's going on with him? This was like a constant
Speaker 1: thing for me, like why in the fuck is this
Speaker 1: guy not He's got he does have money. He's not poor.
Speaker 1: He's got millions at least that they still didn't have
Speaker 1: access to. They didn't get everything. He has friends in Dubai,
Speaker 1: he is able to. He could get a permanent residency
Speaker 1: in the Dubai. And if you think you might go
Speaker 1: to prison for all of your sex crimes and you're
Speaker 1: this guy, Dubai is where you want to wind up.
Speaker 1: And the fact that he visited and then came back,
Speaker 1: that he went back to Romania. I didn't know why
Speaker 1: until I found this post of his on the war
Speaker 1: room that I think kind of explains it. Right. I've
Speaker 1: been everywhere, and let me tell you a few things.
Speaker 1: The world is basically the same. Temples and churches are bullshit,
Speaker 1: and you're better off finding the best spot you can
Speaker 1: and becoming a local force than float around all day
Speaker 1: like a digital nomad dork. There's no club on Earth
Speaker 1: better than the club here in Romania. I have twenty
Speaker 1: girls at the table, Security knows me, no one fucks
Speaker 1: with me. Why leave? And I think that really gets
Speaker 1: right down to it is he's like he's found his place,
Speaker 1: and he's pretty confident that Romania will botch the prosecution
Speaker 1: against him enough that he can continue to live there.
Speaker 1: And I think he doesn't really want to live in
Speaker 1: Dubai because as much of a like stereotypical place as
Speaker 1: it is for guys like him, it doesn't have the
Speaker 1: same kind of opportunities for the sort of debauchery that
Speaker 1: he's into, right. It just there. It's a stricter culture
Speaker 1: in some ways than that even for some guys with money,
Speaker 1: and he could if he was posting the kind of
Speaker 1: videos that he tends to post, he could get in
Speaker 1: trouble at some point. And I think he's just he's
Speaker 1: just convinced of the fact that he can make this
Speaker 1: work for himself. That's that's really what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's a god in Romania, is like why
Speaker 2: would I go anywhere else? Like I write pretty good here?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he might get away, yeah you know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, that's what I got. That's the Andrew Tate update.
Speaker 1: That's where he is right now.
Speaker 2: So it sounds like he's still a piece of shit.
Speaker 1: Okay, still a piece of shit. Update Ill, yep, update,
Speaker 1: you gross guy. We're done with him for a while. Again,
Speaker 1: Probably don't have to go back to Andrew taituh for
Speaker 1: a minute, until until some of this court cases get
Speaker 1: more adjudicated. Right, yeah, yeah, I guess yeah.
Speaker 4: Gross.
Speaker 1: So that's it. That's our update on Andrew.
Speaker 3: Uh, and you have anything you want to plug.
Speaker 2: I just want to plug the Los Angeles Lakers and
Speaker 2: Mike Glorious King Lebron James. The playoffs are about to start,
Speaker 2: Lakers in five That's all I gotta say. And Uh,
Speaker 2: listen to Hood Politics. It's a good show.
Speaker 1: Listen to Hood Politics. It's a good show. Don't subscribe
Speaker 1: to the war Room, Sophie. We should have a place
Speaker 1: people can give us eight thousand dollars a year if
Speaker 1: they want to. Wouldn't that be nice?
Speaker 2: Coolest, the coolest Zone Media.
Speaker 3: We're not.
Speaker 4: We're not that desperate.
Speaker 1: Give me eight thousand dollars Zone Media.
Speaker 3: Wherever I ask you for eight thousand dollars, it's not us.
Speaker 4: It's a scam terribly.
Speaker 1: I say, it's definitely me. Yeah, you know, in which
Speaker 1: case it's definitely me. I would never lie to you
Speaker 1: unless someone cloned my my voice with AI, in which
Speaker 1: case I would definitely that we.
Speaker 5: Lie to you.
Speaker 3: Oh God, you know, Andrew Tate isn't great.
Speaker 4: My mate, Lakers.
Speaker 2: Lakers.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna like stand outside in the sun or some ship.
Speaker 4: They don't even play today. I'm just excited.
Speaker 1: Yeah great.
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