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Speaker 1: A few months ago, on an unseasonably chilly day in Tampa, Florida,

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Speaker 1: we had a chat with our friend Andy Staples from

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Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated.

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Speaker 2: Check Baby, check baby one two, check o Rex's and

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Speaker 2: effect isn't effected on the record, Srey No.

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Speaker 3: Andy.

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Speaker 1: He's known for his exquisite taste in food and his

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Speaker 1: witty commentary on college football, so it's no wonder we

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Speaker 1: talked to him about both.

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Speaker 4: In particular, we asked him about the college football coaching world.

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Speaker 4: At the time, new coaches had been named at schools

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Speaker 4: like Texas, Oregon, et cetera, et cetera. Assistants were on

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Speaker 4: the move all over the country. For fans, these hirings

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Speaker 4: are a big deal, but the process itself, to us

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Speaker 4: at least, is a mystery.

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Speaker 1: We asked him, what is the biggest misconception about how

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Speaker 1: schools hire coaches?

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Speaker 2: So I would ask these ads like how long did

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Speaker 2: you spend with your coach?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 5: Four hours? Like wait for jobs?

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Speaker 2: That is that the highest paying state employee and the

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Speaker 2: highest scrutiny of anyone at the university, Like that's all

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Speaker 2: we could do nowadays?

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Speaker 1: Dan a Power five athletic department. It's a rich operation.

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Speaker 1: Some schools have a nine figure operating budget with almost

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Speaker 1: double in annual revenue. Serious college sports is.

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Speaker 4: Serious business, and football is obviously the biggest money sport.

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Speaker 4: It bankrolls everything. So the coach who leads a program

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Speaker 4: has a ton of responsibility. Is a short interview really enough?

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Speaker 4: How do they know that they got the right guy?

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Speaker 5: They don't. That's the beauty of it. They have to

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Speaker 5: act like.

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Speaker 1: They do, but they do not from the solid verbal.

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Speaker 1: This is a special production. This is how coaches get hired.

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Speaker 6: So with that, it's my pleasure to announce to you

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Speaker 6: the next head coach.

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Speaker 5: So with that, it's my pleasure to introduce to you

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Speaker 5: our new head football coach.

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Speaker 4: So with that, please let me walk home. Sooner or later,

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Speaker 4: every school holds a press conference to introduce a new coach.

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Speaker 4: It's supposed to be a celebration the first time a

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Speaker 4: coach is seen with his new school, sort of like

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Speaker 4: a couple being introduced for the first time as man

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Speaker 4: and wife. It's symbolic.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of times schools

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Speaker 7: rush in, you know, the whole win the press conference

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Speaker 7: thing I think is way overrated.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's Bruce Felman from Fox Sports. Bruce knows

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Speaker 1: a thing or two about coaching searches. He's usually the

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Speaker 1: one breaking the story. In Bruce's mind, the pressor is great,

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Speaker 1: but it's better to have an actionable plan, and the

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Speaker 1: real plan starts long before coaches officially introduced. In fact,

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Speaker 1: a good athletic director always has.

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Speaker 3: A secret plan.

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Speaker 6: Every great ad I know and the ones that will

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Speaker 6: talk to me about the process. Big school, small school,

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Speaker 6: doesn't matter. The great ads are always aware of the market.

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Speaker 4: And that's Stephen Godfrey from ESB Nation. He's seen firsthand

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Speaker 4: what goes on behind the scenes. He also happens to

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Speaker 4: be one of the best storytellers you'll ever meet.

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Speaker 6: But because of the volatility of this industry, you're never

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Speaker 6: not looking okay. You're always aware of the market, and

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Speaker 6: you're always looking at potential situations and things that could happen.

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Speaker 6: And you know, maybe you just hired this guy and

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Speaker 6: he wants to be here for ten years, but that

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Speaker 6: one dream job is going to open in two years,

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Speaker 6: So what's your plan? B. I think most great ads

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Speaker 6: in their revenue sports have a plan B and a

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Speaker 6: plan see every single year, even years that you would

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Speaker 6: never think that there would be an issue. Everyone is

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Speaker 6: always looking at out at the greater landscape of the sport.

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Speaker 6: In terms of personnel.

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Speaker 1: Setting that plan into motion is not easy, not with

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Speaker 1: over zealous fans staking out potential candidates or tracking tail

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Speaker 1: numbers of private planes.

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Speaker 2: You don't hire a search firm to give you a

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Speaker 2: list of candidates. Google can give you a list of candidates.

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Speaker 2: You hire a search firm for discretion because that way,

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Speaker 2: when someone says, oh, have you talked to any coaches,

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Speaker 2: you go nope, and plausible deniability cost you about one

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Speaker 2: hundred and twenty five grand.

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Speaker 4: Right now, what exactly is a search firm? You hear

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Speaker 4: about these a lot when a coaching vacancy opens up.

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Speaker 4: Firms like Parker Executive Search and corn Ferry serve as

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Speaker 4: a quiet intermediary to grease the wheels and make the

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Speaker 4: hiring process go more smoothly. The key word, though, is quiet.

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Speaker 4: As Andy said, search firms may be more about discretion

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Speaker 4: than searching.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 2: For example, came out when Sark got fired at USC

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Speaker 2: that the search firm that had helped USC hire him

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Speaker 2: had not vetted him that well because there were things

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Speaker 2: that people said.

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Speaker 5: Well, this was known in Washington.

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Speaker 8: How did you not.

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Speaker 2: Know that part of the deal, part of what you're

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Speaker 2: paying for is the vetting process, and so that's what

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Speaker 2: they're supposed to do. It's not always what happens, but

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Speaker 2: it is absolutely what they're supposed to do.

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Speaker 1: Steve Sarkisian was fired from USC on October twelfth, twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 1: after stories of ongoing alcohol abuse came to light. For

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Speaker 1: the university, it was a black eye. Pat Hayden, USC's

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Speaker 1: athletic director, defended the decision to hire sark in the

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Speaker 1: first place. After all, they'd done background checks and interviews

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Speaker 1: with friends and colleagues, but he admitted that he hadn't

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Speaker 1: done a public record search. Apparently neither had USC search firm.

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Speaker 6: I do think that you're seeing people their bets and

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Speaker 6: also play a little bit of cya. I don't know

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Speaker 6: if you can say that cover your ass with with

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Speaker 6: bringing in hiring committees, a lot of blame shifting that

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Speaker 6: can go on there after the fact where you don't

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Speaker 6: as an ad. Some ads don't like that. Some ades

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Speaker 6: absolutely hate it. They are going to live and die

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Speaker 6: with the guy that they pick, But a lot of

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Speaker 6: times that's not the case.

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Speaker 9: Or the president wants.

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Speaker 6: To get involved, or the top level booster wants to

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Speaker 6: get involved. I think the biggest problem that you see

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Speaker 6: is too many cooks in the kitchen up front. And

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Speaker 6: if you don't have a singular vision and what you want,

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Speaker 6: what you want for a head coach, it's going to

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Speaker 6: be very hard to nail down what you liked about

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Speaker 6: the series of candidates that you got to talk to

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Speaker 6: and maybe make a couple offers to. So you want

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Speaker 6: to have a vision that everyone can share and trust in.

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Speaker 4: Hmm, okay, So it comes down to the vision. How

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Speaker 4: hard could it be? Just build a better team, more wins,

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Speaker 4: a flash your offense, more tenacious, aggressive defense, and build

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Speaker 4: it with the guy that everybody likes, maybe an alum

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Speaker 4: that really knows the lawyer of the land.

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Speaker 3: Visions are aspirational.

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Speaker 1: It can be hard to pin down, especially when you've

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Speaker 1: got high stakes and there are other influential people in

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Speaker 1: the room. If you are an athletic director, you got

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Speaker 1: to get the vision right or you get.

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Speaker 3: The hell out of town.

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Speaker 2: I find that a lot of times schools want to

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Speaker 2: hire the exact opposite of the person they just fired.

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Speaker 2: The fire boat Polini hire Mike Riley is the prime example.

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Speaker 2: You fire a guy who's you know, if you're an

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Speaker 2: AD who doesn't like a coach being mean to you,

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Speaker 2: you hire the nicest coach in the world. That's what

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Speaker 2: they did well, and we'll see if that winds up

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Speaker 2: improving the program overall. But the jury's out. But that's

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Speaker 2: that's one thing I find, you know, from talking to

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Speaker 2: some of the analytics folks, it seems like people put

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Speaker 2: a little too much stock in having been at a

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Speaker 2: school before being our kind of guy, that sort of

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Speaker 2: thing that doesn't necessarily translate to success.

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Speaker 5: The one thing that does, over the years.

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Speaker 2: Translate to success is hiring someone on the offensive side

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Speaker 2: of the ball versus the defensive.

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Speaker 1: Philosophy is the key word to note all the way

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Speaker 1: down to recruiting.

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Speaker 9: That starts with your head coach.

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Speaker 6: And that's something that ads are now interested in now

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Speaker 6: more than ever because I think the respect and the

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Speaker 6: acknowledgment of what recruiting does to your overall product. I

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Speaker 6: just think that level of awareness has never been higher,

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Speaker 6: especially with the people making the hiring decisions.

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Speaker 4: Philosophy extends to money too. At the end of the day,

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Speaker 4: what can you afford?

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Speaker 2: I remember when I think it was Dan Mullen or

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Speaker 2: it was either Dan mull or Hugh Freese was the

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Speaker 2: final SEC West coach to hit the four million dollar mark.

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Speaker 2: And I remember seeing an SEC athletic director shortly after

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Speaker 2: that and the first words out of that person's mouth

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Speaker 2: we're all insane. And I was like, well, you guys

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Speaker 2: can just not do it, and they're like, no, we can't.

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Speaker 1: The economics of this world totally unsustainable. If we're going

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Speaker 1: to continue this ongoing charade that everyone in college football

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Speaker 1: Bowl Subdivision is on level footing, then someone needs to

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Speaker 1: disrupt the model.

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Speaker 3: And Andy knows it too.

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Speaker 2: I think there will be an ad who someday says

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Speaker 2: I can find a young up.

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Speaker 5: And comer who will take three million dollars, and you know.

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Speaker 2: What, that's probably the probability of success is probably just

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Speaker 2: as high as if I hire this guy who.

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Speaker 5: Is demanding four and a half million dollars.

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Speaker 2: You see it in the business world all the time,

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Speaker 2: where you know, you do have to pay taxes and

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Speaker 2: you don't always get more money, and you don't have

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Speaker 2: to spend every dime you make where you should save

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Speaker 2: some of it. And you'll see businesses that their model

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Speaker 2: is exclusively.

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Speaker 5: We hire young and cheap. You know you're leaving.

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Speaker 2: We're going to train you to be good, and then

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Speaker 2: the next group of young and cheap good people will

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Speaker 2: come in.

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Speaker 5: And they'll work here for a year and they'll leave.

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Speaker 1: So you've got a vision. Now you've got to find

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Speaker 1: a coach.

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Speaker 4: Let's talk about how that matchmaking happens. But before we do,

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Speaker 4: let's go all the way back to the beginning. We'll

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Speaker 4: do that next.

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Speaker 4: Nobody actually starts out as a big time college football coach.

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Speaker 4: To tell this story, we've got to start at the

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Speaker 4: very beginning. How does an aspiring coach become a GA

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Speaker 4: A grad assistant. Here's Stephen Godfree.

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Speaker 6: They go to events like the AFCA, which is American

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Speaker 6: Federation of College Association. Don I'm not sure, but I

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Speaker 6: definitely know what it's called a FCA, and they go

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Speaker 6: They're almost always ex athletes. They probably played football somewhere,

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Speaker 6: it doesn't really matter what level they played at. They

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Speaker 6: start networking the same way that you would to get

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Speaker 6: into any industry. They hand out resumes, they you know,

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Speaker 6: work every lead that they have, and then they take

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Speaker 6: a really terrible job for a couple of years. If

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Speaker 6: they get on anywhere, it's probably going to be on

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Speaker 6: a volunteer basis. It's going to be for maybe no

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Speaker 6: money or maybe just some sort of laughable stipend to

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Speaker 6: live on, and then you work.

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Speaker 9: Your way up.

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Speaker 3: Man, this sounds a lot like being a journalism major.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. There's more.

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Speaker 6: You attach yourself more often than not. Once you make

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Speaker 6: a staff as a GA, you tend to attach yourself

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Speaker 6: to one side of the ball, and then maybe to

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Speaker 6: a specific assistant coach, and then from there that's how

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Speaker 6: you start to develop relationships and maybe you know, maybe

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Speaker 6: you're a GA on offense, but your dream is to

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Speaker 6: be a defensive coordinator. That's going to happen a lot.

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Speaker 6: You're going to go where they need you, so you

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Speaker 6: have to be versatile up front. But eventually you start

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Speaker 6: hopefully gravitating towards working for the kind of coaches that

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Speaker 6: you would want to emulate one day in the kind

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Speaker 6: of places that you would want to be one day.

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Speaker 6: But that's that's an ideal situation. Some guys just ga

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Speaker 6: for a long time and they can't really get on

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Speaker 6: with the right staff.

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Speaker 1: I'm sort of blown away by how common this sounds.

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Speaker 1: It sounds a lot like any college grad looking to

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Speaker 1: catch on in just about any industry. My only question,

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Speaker 1: how do you build a resume in this world?

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Speaker 3: What would you even put on it?

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Speaker 4: It's a good question, Stephen says. It's about building a

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Speaker 4: rep that gets people talking, establishing yourself as a coach

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Speaker 4: that gets results. Having a demeanor that might be compatible

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Speaker 4: with someone else down the road also helps if you

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Speaker 4: can recruit and then develop those players short.

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Speaker 6: Of maybe offensive and defensive coordinators having to have some

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Speaker 6: sort of structural schematic idea about them, some sort of

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Speaker 6: philosophy that we can say in about one or two sentences.

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Speaker 6: I think everyone else is going to live or die

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Speaker 6: by their ability to recruit and then develop. Development is tricky.

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Speaker 6: Development is something that if you ask different coaches, they're

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Speaker 6: going to be very subjective about who they think can

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Speaker 6: develop so and so, and all of them are going

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Speaker 6: to tell you casually that you're going to look like

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Speaker 6: a genius at developing talent if you have really.

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Speaker 9: Good players to start with.

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Speaker 6: So that's why I think it all goes back to

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Speaker 6: recruiting and the reputation that you build there. I would

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Speaker 6: also add in recruiting, you're going to interact with a

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Speaker 6: lot of high school coaches, You're going to interact with

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Speaker 6: junior colleges. You're going to talk to more than just

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Speaker 6: other coaches on your staff and rival coaches. Again, I

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Speaker 6: can't overemphasize that it's like a sewing circle in college football.

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Speaker 9: It's like a big, a.

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Speaker 6: Big middle school lunch room. There's a lot of gossip

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Speaker 6: that goes on, and so honestly, I think it has

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Speaker 6: less to do with the merit that you present as

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Speaker 6: it is over time, who you get to know that

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Speaker 6: becomes paramount at a certain point in your career.

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Speaker 1: I guess it makes sense that networking would play such

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Speaker 1: a huge role because it always plays a huge role

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Speaker 1: in career play, and recruiting is really just a different

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Speaker 1: form of networking. But you know, sometimes it's weird when

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Speaker 1: you're networking for you and not on behalf of somebody else.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes that can be a little uncomfortable. Did Steven say

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Speaker 1: anything about that?

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Speaker 4: He didn't, but Bruce did.

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Speaker 7: There's a coach who I think does a really good

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Speaker 7: job and he's now risen to the point where he's

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Speaker 7: a decent sized commodity as an assistant coach. And I've

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Speaker 7: known him for a long time and he never did

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Speaker 7: this stuff where he wouldn't go to the coach's convention,

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Speaker 7: or if he did, he would only have with guys

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Speaker 7: he used to play with. And you know, if I

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Speaker 7: had introduced it, he was like kind of like just

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Speaker 7: not very outgoing. Now he's a good He was a

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Speaker 7: I don't know if I would even say he's redical,

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Speaker 7: but he just didn't make a big effort. And he

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Speaker 7: was a guy who was a good recruiter, but when

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Speaker 7: it came to networking, and he's since learned, you know,

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Speaker 7: once he got into his thirties. I need to be

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Speaker 7: that way more because it's for upward mobility and you

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Speaker 7: never know who guys know. So it's very like it's

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Speaker 7: a you know, like my job, but it's also like

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Speaker 7: it's a very relationship driven job. Who do you clinic with,

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Speaker 7: who do you learn from? And all those things, and

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Speaker 7: then you know if you ever find out, like why

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Speaker 7: is this guy interviewing for this Well, these guys work together.

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Speaker 7: Are this guy's friends with that guy? David Shaw's thing

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Speaker 7: at Stanford is somebody on his staff has to have

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Speaker 7: worked or has a relationship with a person they hire.

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Speaker 7: It could be the greatest Like and I'm not saying

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Speaker 7: nobody knows Dave Randa on it. Maybe there's somebody who'd

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Speaker 7: work with him at like Utah State or wherever. But

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Speaker 7: he was like, if that connection, no matter how great

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Speaker 7: the coaches he said, he wouldn't he wouldn't bring them on.

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Speaker 4: The coaching industry is is Actually it's a lot like

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Speaker 4: other industries. You need to know the right people, but

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Speaker 4: it's not without its own nuances. There isn't a tried

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Speaker 4: and true path to success. Sometimes it's better maybe take

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Speaker 4: a step back and then take a step forward later.

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Speaker 4: Andy Staples said it, best.

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Speaker 2: Things aren't always peachy, and if the next best thing

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Speaker 2: comes along, take the next best thing and keep on

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Speaker 2: moving to the next best thing. It's an industry built

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Speaker 2: on people moving around.

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Speaker 1: I get that it's an industry built on movement, but

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Speaker 1: most college football fans den we don't live in that world.

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Speaker 1: From the outside in, it sounds a lot like coaches

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Speaker 1: have a corkboard with the yarn and the thumbtacks and

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Speaker 1: they're plotting years in advance, like there's some sort of

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Speaker 1: super opportunists. I asked Dandy, are coaches constantly playing that

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Speaker 1: game of three dimensional chess with their careers?

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Speaker 2: I think everybody does it in the back of their heads,

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Speaker 2: but I think they're really good coaches don't do that

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Speaker 2: very much consciously.

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Speaker 5: I think it's just like any other job.

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Speaker 2: You try to do a great job at the job

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Speaker 2: you're at, and then opportunities will arise.

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Speaker 5: If you spend.

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Speaker 2: A lot of time thinking about your next job or

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Speaker 2: making moves towards your next job, you're probably not going

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Speaker 2: to do your current job very well. And so I

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Speaker 2: think there are probably some coaches that do get into that,

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Speaker 2: but I would imagine for the most part, the ones

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Speaker 2: that succeed and actually do hop up to another job.

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Speaker 2: Like Tom Herman is a good example. I think Tom

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Speaker 2: Herman knew in the back of his head if everything

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Speaker 2: went great, he'd wind up the Texas coach, But I

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Speaker 2: don't think he made a lot of decisions during the

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Speaker 2: football season the last two years with an eye on

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Speaker 2: being the Texas coach. I think he was trying to

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Speaker 2: win a bunch of games at Houston and if that happened,

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Speaker 2: then good things would happen for him.

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Speaker 1: The answer is yes, just not in the ego maniacal

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Speaker 1: sense we might think. Actually, it's pretty normal. Coaches pay

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Speaker 1: their dues until they can afford to be picky. Some

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Speaker 1: guys play it cool, like Tom Herman. Others might be

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Speaker 1: more aggressive. Some are content being assistants for their entire careers.

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Speaker 4: In a lot of cases, it's less about being opportunistic

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Speaker 4: and more about just knowing the industry. Coaches are a

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Speaker 4: product of the system and the system is pretty disloyal.

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Speaker 4: Keeping your eyes open for other openings. That's just smart.

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Speaker 7: You know.

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Speaker 6: It's like a cross between fan fiction and some sort

399
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Speaker 6: of like stats based video game that these guys are

400
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Speaker 6: playing in their head. It's amazing. They try and look

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Speaker 6: at where what the resources are. That's the number one thing.

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Speaker 6: So I'm talking about the physical resources facilities and you know,

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Speaker 6: weight rooms and stadiums. Then they're going to look at budget,

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Speaker 6: both in terms of availability of funds for things like recruiting,

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Speaker 6: but then also staffing positions. You know, what kind of

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Speaker 6: budget do you have if I want to tear down

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Speaker 6: everything in this building and put up new slogans and

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Speaker 6: Florida ceiling prints and all this, you know, things that

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Speaker 6: are going to hammer home my mantra.

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Speaker 9: To my players.

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Speaker 6: Then once you look at what's there, you look at

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Speaker 6: what you think you could do there, what you could

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Speaker 6: bring in. Are there outside boosters who feel a little

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Speaker 6: tip at about supporting the program? Can you win them

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Speaker 6: over and get the cash flow higher immediately? Is there

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Speaker 6: an interest in that kind of stuff? Are are ticket

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Speaker 6: sales good ticket sales? They don't necessarily care about the

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Speaker 6: specifics of a box office, but they want to know

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Speaker 6: what kind of port you have in the community, because

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Speaker 6: coaches get very frustrated if there's a kind of a

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Speaker 6: bland response in the immediate college town or city wherever

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Speaker 6: you're at.

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Speaker 9: And then the fan base overall.

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Speaker 6: They need that energy and recruiting probably more than they

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Speaker 6: let on. They talk about all that, they look at

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Speaker 6: all of that, but the number one thing there after

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Speaker 6: all of that is done, is one question, and that's

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Speaker 6: do I think I can win?

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Speaker 9: Do I think I can win?

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Speaker 1: So your school might need a coach, and we know

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Speaker 1: that an unnamed coach out there might even be willing

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Speaker 1: to kick the tires.

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Speaker 3: Enter agents.

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Speaker 2: One thing they're doing they're managing their clients in terms

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Speaker 2: of public perception. You know, what do people think about

436
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Speaker 2: this guy? And they'll then take the temperature quite a

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Speaker 2: bit and try to try to figure out, okay, is

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Speaker 2: there some way we can kind of boost his perception

439
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Speaker 2: or boost people's perception of him as an offensive.

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Speaker 5: Guru or some other way.

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Speaker 2: So they're looking at that. They're also looking at what

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Speaker 2: may come open, and then they are seating the clouds

443
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 2: in terms of getting touched with those ads, just touching

444
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 2: base just you know, let you know, just in case

445
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 2: you ever. And so a lot of it is research

446
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 2: into what are these jobs that may come open, who's

447
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 2: on the hot seat.

448
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 3: From time to time, it can get well murky.

449
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 2: What's weird is you know with some of the bigger

450
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 2: coaching agentcy like your Jimmy Sexton's or your Trace Armstrong's,

451
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 2: they've got so many clients that it may be they're

452
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 2: looking at hot seat guys that are their clients potentially

453
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,440
Speaker 2: being replaced by their clients.

454
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 1: Assuming there's mutual interest and enough clandestine coordination, we've got

455
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 1: ourselves a good old fashioned interview.

456
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 5: Dan.

457
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,919
Speaker 1: It's like any other job, really, but it's about a

458
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,880
Speaker 1: different topic. Schools will take this opportunity to compare their

459
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,239
Speaker 1: vision to a coach's philosophy. It's how they figure out

460
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: if someone fits not everyone excels at the interview.

461
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 2: There's some of these guys that can, you know, go

462
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 2: to a recruits living room and make magic, but they

463
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 2: go in front of an ad and the president and

464
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 2: they're like, they claim up. Now, if they come in

465
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 2: completely unorganized and they're you know, just all over the place,

466
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 2: that reflects on probably how they wore perform as a

467
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,199
Speaker 2: football coach as well. But if they just don't talk, well,

468
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,440
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's the factory you used to

469
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 2: to eliminate them. I think that's where you need to

470
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 2: kind of dig a little deeper and figure out, Okay,

471
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 2: why why is it like this is this something that

472
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 2: will cause this person to not be able to do

473
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 2: the job correctly because they're currently doing the.

474
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 5: Job very well at a different level. So it's it's hard.

475
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 2: I think it's really hard for the ads again, because

476
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 2: they have that limited time with them to figure out

477
00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 2: what's important, what matters, like organizational skill, having a vision

478
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,880
Speaker 2: for the future, having a staff plan. Those are all

479
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 2: things that are very concrete and that a good coach,

480
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 2: whether he's good at talking to people in suits or not,

481
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 2: should be able to talk about very fluently.

482
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 4: There's a human element that comes into play too.

483
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 6: Let's say you're from the East Coast. You get a

484
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,439
Speaker 6: West Coast job, and that's going to uproot your family.

485
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 6: But if it's with a guy that you know is

486
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 6: going to treat you right, treat your family right, there's

487
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 6: going to be a financial gain to it.

488
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 9: You're going to uproot your family.

489
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 6: The reality is that, I mean, coaching families are It's

490
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 6: some kind of bad version of military families.

491
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 9: It really is. I don't know of any.

492
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 6: Head coach who's just said, flat out well, I'm not

493
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 6: going to take that job because of where it is,

494
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 6: even though it's a great job, because my family doesn't

495
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,400
Speaker 6: want to live there. You adapt, You just do. It's

496
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 6: the stark, brutal reality of the sport. Because I think,

497
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 6: I don't know if it's a secret or not. A

498
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 6: lot of families don't move right away. Maybe one of

499
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 6: the kids is in high school at the old place,

500
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 6: and they stay there for a couple of years. You

501
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 6: can certainly, when you're talking about major college football jobs, you.

502
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 9: Have enough money to maintain two households.

503
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 6: I know of three first year head coaches right now

504
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 6: that are living in apartments with some of their assistant

505
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 6: coaches for six months while the kids finished school, and

506
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:19,959
Speaker 6: then the wives come out and look for houses, and

507
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 6: so gosh, you talk about a great opportunity for a

508
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 6: future story, that might be.

509
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 4: It from a school's perspective, it's sometimes about a different

510
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 4: kind of recruiting philosophy.

511
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,239
Speaker 2: When I was a beat writer cover in Florida, they

512
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 2: fired Ronzo Can hired urban Meyer. One of the key

513
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 2: factors in the recruitment of urban Meyer was Christine Donovan,

514
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 2: That's Billy Donovan's wife. She was the one who contacted

515
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 2: Shelley Meyer and said, listen, this is what living in

516
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 2: Gainesville is like.

517
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 5: These are the.

518
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 2: Schools your children would go to, This is what the

519
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 2: community's like, this is what your life would be like.

520
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 5: This is what your kid's life would be like. And

521
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 5: when you.

522
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 2: Get her on because you got to get her on

523
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 2: your side, you get her on your side. That is

524
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 2: the most influential person to the coach. We're talking about,

525
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 2: whether whether it's Urban Meyer or Nick Saban or anybody else.

526
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 2: If MoMA ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. And that's the

527
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 2: That's one of the things that you know. If you've

528
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 2: got somebody who can help recruit the coach's spouse or

529
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 2: the coach's kids, you're in good shape.

530
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 4: Above it all, there are sticking points. There's a pretty

531
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 4: big emphasis on staff. It's where all that networking comes

532
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 4: into play.

533
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 2: Money for assistance is probably actually a bigger sticking point

534
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 2: than money.

535
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 5: For the coach.

536
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 2: Most guys who got into that business never thought they'd

537
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 2: make that kind of money, So they're not gonna they're

538
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 2: not gonna go crazy if they don't get, you know,

539
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 2: one more one hundred thousand dollars or whatever. Some of

540
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 2: them will some of them look at it as a

541
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 2: respect thing, but it's like that.

542
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 5: In any industry.

543
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 2: But more of them will say, I need a bigger

544
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 2: pool for my assistance. How much will you give me

545
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:02,199
Speaker 2: to hire my coordinators? Dablosweeney's a great example, Dabosweeney. If

546
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 2: you look at his first contract after he was named

547
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 2: the permanent head coach at Clemson, very low base salary,

548
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 2: basically get.

549
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:12,880
Speaker 5: Any extra money he would have gotten.

550
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 2: He said, put in the assistant pool because there were

551
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 2: certain people he wanted to hire because he knew he

552
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 2: could be successful if he got them on board. And

553
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 2: I asked him about it one time, I said, why,

554
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 2: why'd you do it this way? He said, well, I'm

555
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,400
Speaker 2: a walk on coach, and you know, if I want

556
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 2: to earn my scholarship, I just need to do it.

557
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 2: And it was a heavily incentive based contract that if

558
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 2: you want a bunch of games, he would make more money, and.

559
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 5: That probably helped elevate.

560
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 2: Him over other candidates who were more experienced because he

561
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 2: was going to cost less on the front end.

562
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: In other words, if a coach gets a job, he

563
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: needs to start building his tree immediately. It's the circle

564
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: of life in the coaching world.

565
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 6: I would say, the opposite of whatever yours, so whatever

566
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 6: side of the ball that you don't have the experience

567
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 6: in is so you're a lifelong OC.

568
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 9: I think the DC you hire, and then one.

569
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 6: A is the recruiting coordinator, and then maybe one B

570
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 6: is a position coach that is sort of your lead

571
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 6: recruiter that is from the footprint of your new job

572
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 6: wherever that might be. There are guys and there are

573
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 6: coaches I know who are in jobs in areas of

574
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 6: the country that don't have a lot of college football talent.

575
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 6: You still need the local connection. You still need to

576
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 6: develop the local identity because sometimes it goes beyond just

577
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 6: being able to recruit two or three star kids at

578
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 6: a high school. It's just like a sort of a

579
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 6: community identification thing.

580
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: If everything goes well, a school gets his coach, a

581
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 1: coach gets his staff, the fan base finally gets a

582
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: new coach that they can be excited about.

583
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 4: There is one power center we've yet to cover. Tie.

584
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 4: Have you ever wondered how coaching news leaks before the

585
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 4: process is even complete. Well, everyone we talked to is connected, obviously,

586
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 4: and gets crumbs from time to time. The key for

587
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 4: a reporter is to sort of stress test a theory

588
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 4: before taking it seriously. There are a lot of wild rumors.

589
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 4: Some of it can come from the agents or prominent boosters,

590
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 4: but a lot of them can start simply because they

591
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 4: sound fun.

592
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 7: People like this coach and they think like back when

593
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,959
Speaker 7: Oseron didn't get the USC job, people like, oh, you know,

594
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 7: I don't think he should be the USC or LSU job,

595
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 7: but he should probably get like the Purdue job or

596
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 7: the whatever. And it's just like, there has to be

597
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 7: a fit there. There has to be some kind of relationship.

598
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 7: You're not just gonna pluck some guy and you're not

599
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 7: sure how he would be. I'm not saying he couldn't

600
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 7: have won or recruited at Purdue or couldn't have recruited

601
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 7: at Minnesota or whatever. But you know, people just like

602
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 7: I don't think they you know, like they think of

603
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 7: how it actually fits. Like last year, I remember working,

604
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 7: you know, I worked on this Friday night show and

605
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 7: Klay Travis was like making the case of, you know,

606
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 7: Miami should definitely hire Lane Kiffin, and I was like, you

607
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 7: just want it because you think it's you know, like, yeah,

608
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 7: for Lane Kiffin's perspective, it makes sense.

609
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 8: If you're Miami. I'm not sure it makes any sense.

610
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 1: Bruce is very good at doing this. He's broken more

611
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: news this year than many reporters will in a lifetime.

612
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: Knowing who to trust and when to trust them, that's

613
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: an acquired skill. It's also a little bit awkward.

614
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 8: Here's the thing that sucks.

615
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 7: You know, I have people's names in my phone that

616
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 7: aren't their real names, because I like, I'm sitting in

617
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 7: a press box and it comes up as somebody and

618
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 7: I'm like, oh shit, they're looking and they see what that,

619
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 7: you know, whatever, and I like, these are all my friends.

620
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 7: It's not like anybody who's here I don't like.

621
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 4: But by the way, we asked about what kinds of

622
00:31:55,520 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 4: names Bruce uses. He likes to use names in other languages,

623
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 4: for example. We also asked him how often his sources

624
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 4: are other coaches.

625
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 7: There's a couple of guys I know who have been

626
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 7: great sources of information where like their very networked.

627
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 8: I broke a story the day.

628
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 7: Notre Dame is getting killed by Alabama in the National

629
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 7: Title game and I get a call from a coach

630
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 7: I know really well and he's like, Scott Schafer's getting

631
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 7: the Syracuse job. And I'm like, this person's never given

632
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 7: me anything. Now it's a person I know really well.

633
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 7: But and he was like, just trust me, and I

634
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 7: was like, and the just trust me thing is like,

635
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 7: you know, I had this conversation with a friend of

636
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 7: mine who's a coach who's now moved further up in

637
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 7: the business, and he had once given me some information

638
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 7: which was like, technically it was accurate, but it was

639
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 7: not like I would not have gone with it the

640
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 7: way he went it was it was basically about somebody interviewing.

641
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 7: I was like, hey man, you know you put me

642
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 7: out there like that, and I was trying to explain

643
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 7: to him, like, I can't screw those things up.

644
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 8: I screwed up once. It's a huge hit on me.

645
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 5: Dan.

646
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: I am shocked, shocked that you can't fully trust a

647
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 1: coach when he tells you something.

648
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm stunned, Ty. But on the Schaefer scoop, Bruce

649
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 4: decided he would trust his source.

650
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 8: And he's like, you gotta trust trust me. I'm not

651
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 8: letting you know. It's okay.

652
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 7: And then I went with it, and you know, we

653
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 7: have this out there, and I remember it was weird

654
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 7: because you're at the whatever that stadium that you know

655
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 7: in South Florida is, and you could see other reporters

656
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 7: because you're in a little pot of press box. I'm

657
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 7: looking around seeing when it gets out of just some

658
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 7: of some people I know who are probably chasing the

659
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 7: story too. And then you know, I think it was

660
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 7: like the next day that person explained to me what

661
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 7: the relationship was, and I was.

662
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 8: Like, oh no, I feel better.

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Speaker 7: Everything is relationship based, but it's like, Okay, who can

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Speaker 7: I go to to confirm this?

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Speaker 8: Who can I go to? Chases? Who might know?

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Speaker 7: I spend way more time obsessing about those that aspect

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Speaker 7: of networking.

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Speaker 1: So there you have it, Dan coaching, it is relationship based.

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Speaker 4: It's about knowing the right people, having plans, building portfolios.

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Speaker 4: Along the way, Ty I learned a lot, me too.

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Speaker 1: The Solid Verbal is produced, edited and directed by Dan

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00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 1: Rubinstein and me Ty Hildenbrand. Support for today's episode comes

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Speaker 1: from Blue Apron and Indo Chino. Big thanks to our

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Speaker 1: guests Andy Staples from Sports Illustrated, Stephen Godfrey from esp Nation,

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Speaker 1: and Bruce Feldman from Fox Sports.

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Speaker 3: Special.

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Speaker 1: Thanks to our trusted advisor, Taylor Schwind. Subscribe to The

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Speaker 1: Solid Verbal on Apple Podcasts or anywhere fine podcasts are found.

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Speaker 1: We're also on Facebook and Twitter. The Solid Verbal is

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Speaker 1: a production of Solid Verbal Media LLLC

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Speaker 2: MHM