1 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:10,799 Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties, weekly podcasts featuring conversations with 2 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 3 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: Cynthia Littleton, business editor for Variety Today. My guest in 4 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: New York is f. E. T. Brown, CEO of Game Changer. 5 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: Effie is a force of nature, as you will soon hear. 6 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: She's a veteran film producer who was tapped to lead 7 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: Game Changer in January. The Los Angeles based company is 8 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: looking to live up to its name by forging a 9 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: new path for developing and financing film and TV content. 10 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: Her goal is to allow creatives from marginalized communities, women, 11 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: people of color, l g B, t Q, and the 12 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: disabled to build wealth and ownership from the content they create. 13 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: She is also determined to broaden the pool of private 14 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: investors in films to include those who have not typically 15 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: participated in the past. Effie is a woman with a plan, 16 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: as she lays out in detail in our conversation. Her 17 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 1: years of being the first to arrive on set and 18 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: the last to leave as the producer of such films 19 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: as Dear White People and Real Women Have Curves laid 20 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 1: the foundation for what she sees as her true mission 21 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: with Game Changer. As she puts it, if we don't 22 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:25,119 Speaker 1: bet on us, nobody will f E. T. Brown, thank 23 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: you for making time for me. It's a pleasure, Effie. 24 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: You have just in January became the CEO of a 25 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:36,039 Speaker 1: very interesting and innovative entity called Game Changer, which is 26 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: in fact an equity fund that brings in investors to 27 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: help support the production of of a range of content 28 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: with the prism of diversity and inclusion, opening doors for 29 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: person for filmmakers of color, for for for women, for 30 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: lgbt Q filmmakers. This sounds like a confluence of of 31 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: you know, very interesting ends, interesting forms of financing for 32 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,919 Speaker 1: for films and content, and the you know, renewed pushed 33 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: by this industry, long overdue, pushed by this industry to 34 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: really open the aperture and invite a whole lot more 35 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: folks into the table to be able to tell their stories. 36 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: Tell me what it was. You are a well established producer, 37 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 1: Tell me what it was that attracted you to become 38 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: the CEO of this venture. The main thing was why, um, 39 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: I've really sought after the position of CEO Game Changers, 40 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 1: that it was time for a change and by that 41 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: not just a change for myself, but a change for 42 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: resource and access for women, people of color, l g B, 43 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: t Q, and people with disabilities to actually have UM 44 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:52,399 Speaker 1: sort of a financial presence and say in their projects. 45 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: And that was one of the things that UM Game 46 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: Changer was actually going to be helpful, like be a 47 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: force for because there's a lot I mean, I really 48 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 1: and it might go a little all over the place, 49 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: so just sort of, you know, steer me in the 50 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,079 Speaker 1: right direction, but we're with you, and okay, you know 51 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: what I mean. I just had this moment where I 52 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: was just sort of like, you know, I've been making 53 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: movies for a really long time, and it just you know, 54 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 1: and I'm really and I've always been diverse and inclusive. 55 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: I'm black, and I'm a woman, like I've never you 56 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: know what I mean, I didn't have exactly I'm like this, 57 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: I'm like, I uh, if I wasn't diverse and inclusive, 58 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 1: I wouldn't have a career, you know what I mean, 59 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: And I would and I would be anyway. So so, 60 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: but what I started noticing is that more and more 61 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: people companies I'm gonna say people, I'm gonna say companies, 62 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: venture capitalists, studios, big dollar producers that have financing are 63 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: starting to figure out like, oh, diversity and inclusive um 64 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: makes money. Might sell me, some tickets might sell right, 65 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like you know what you guys, 66 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: and I'm not necessarily politically correct, like which is probably 67 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: a misnope, you know, so it might be a little 68 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: like don't be offend anybody, but like we're like, oh, 69 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: black folks, Latinos, people with disability, like if you're represented, 70 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: like y'all show up. So it's business, like you know 71 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: what I mean. Like they talked to us about it 72 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: like it's a charity and some philanthropic thing, but you 73 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 1: look at the numbers and it's a business. It brings 74 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 1: in money. And when I started noticing, and I was like, 75 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: you know what, a lot of people are patting themselves 76 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 1: on the back about doing this sort of philanthropic thing, 77 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: like we're doing something for like you women and whatever. 78 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: We have a director program, we have a club, we 79 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,679 Speaker 1: have this, we have that. But I'm starting to notice. 80 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 1: I was like, but you guys are making money off 81 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: of that. But you know who's not making money off 82 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: of that? The women, the people of color, the people 83 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: disabilities to l G B t Q, Like the creators, like, 84 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: we're not making the money, and I consider producers a 85 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: part of that filmmaking team, you know, a lot of 86 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: times like we're and also like and I think that 87 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 1: we're sort of like the first folks, the first soldiers 88 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 1: to go down a lot of times when it comes 89 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: to actually having leverage and being able to you know, 90 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: move on to the next thing. Like people will cherry 91 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: pick your director, they'll cherry pick your talent, they'll cherry 92 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,280 Speaker 1: pick your you know, your screenwriter, and they'll go off 93 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: and do something. But like, you know, but the producers 94 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: are like, we killed ourselves to make this happen for you. 95 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: But I digress. The whole point this long winded story 96 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: was all about. I started noticing that, like, um, we 97 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: were being used as tools for lack of a better word, 98 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: instead of participating in the profit that was being gained 99 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: by telling our diverse and inclusive stories. Game Changer was was, 100 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: and is a filter. It is a company, and it 101 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 1: is a resource that can change, that can help level 102 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: the playing field and change that. I think that's an 103 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: important point because I think that there's a lot of 104 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: programs with absolutely the most well meaning intentions. You know, 105 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 1: the most well intentions can still we've all heard the 106 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: stories of the you know, the lower fee to get 107 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: that extra writer in the sense of the sense of 108 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: you know, bias even within the room that sometimes a 109 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: quote unquote diversity higher will feel when when we hear 110 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: those stories from the perspective of the people that they 111 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: are intended to help, it's you know, it can be 112 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: really telling. And you know, clearly there are avenues for 113 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: other There are certainly more avenues in this industry than 114 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: than one way to walk through the studio gate to 115 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: get a movie made. Tell me how so with Game Changer, 116 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 1: I I obviously we really can understand the sense of 117 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 1: getting right down to the stakeholders who have skin in 118 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 1: the game profit and success and and you know it 119 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 1: gives you that that ultimate incentive, right. Tell me how 120 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: the Game Changer model works in terms of how do 121 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: you how do you bring in investors, and how do 122 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,359 Speaker 1: you determine how the funds are distributed? How does it 123 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 1: all work? Sure? So game Changer, um, because we were 124 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: when I first came onto Game Changer, that was it 125 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: was maybe about October September of last year when we've 126 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: started talking seriously and about what the model should be, 127 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: and what the model we thought was going to be 128 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: then has changed a little bit to where it is now. 129 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: And so where we are now I'll focus on that 130 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: is that we saw sort of a twofold it's a 131 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: two fer, so we saw a need and I'm going 132 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: to call it the investor group. So the investor group 133 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: is sort of been uh an homage to the Impact 134 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: Partners model, and so some of us, you know, like 135 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: a little bit of backstory is some of the founders 136 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: of game Changer were actually some of the founders of 137 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: Impact Partners, which is a financing group of folks that 138 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: do nonfiction films. Game Changer, the first game Changer in 139 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: was sort of grown out of that. So what we 140 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: have now game Change is um is that we have 141 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: an equity model built into the company of Game Changer, 142 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: and then we also have an investment group. The investment 143 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: group is where I'm really trying to open my arms 144 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: for diverse investors. Game Changer does not work unless our 145 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: investors are as diverse as the content we're trying to 146 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: put out. That is our mandate. So our investor group 147 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 1: has a lower entry point or lower barrier for entry 148 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: to be to participate in films, and that good I 149 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: was just gonna say, is that? And is that because 150 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: you want to open the world film finance, we have 151 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: to be on like and this is the banks and 152 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: the median pension funds and the exact the French the 153 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: French funds that we can't pronounce exactly, but we would 154 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: love to be a part of them. Because that was 155 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: a thing that like, and I go back to before 156 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: when I was like, this doesn't make sense, Like how 157 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: are we out here still being tools? And like, you know, 158 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: people are using our stories in this and like I'll 159 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 1: use myself for an example. I've been around for a 160 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: really long time. My movies have made over a hundred 161 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: million dollars in box office and I've been around for 162 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: a bit and they've been like low budget films, but 163 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: we've made money on all my movies, And like, and 164 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: why is every time I go out it's like I'm 165 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: brand new that every success that I've had was an anomaly. 166 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 1: But somebody else is making money off of it, right, 167 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: but just not us. So anyway, so this is where 168 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: I was thinking, the only way that we're going to 169 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: change the playing field of Hollywood is that we have 170 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: got to be at the table ready to put our 171 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: money in. If we don't bet on us, nobody will. 172 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: And everyone think that everyone a lot of us think, 173 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: and I would say us, I'm feeling like the underrepresented people. 174 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna gonna try to, you know, streamline that down. 175 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: Is that saying women people called take you people, disability, 176 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: It's like, I'm just gonna say us, um is that 177 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: it's like, oh I don't have enough money, Oh I 178 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:05,679 Speaker 1: don't know how to do it, or like it's something 179 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: that they can never imagine, and I'm like, sure you can, 180 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: and this is how we're going to do it. We 181 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: have an investment group where we have people of color, women, LGBTQ, 182 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:19,319 Speaker 1: people with disabilities, as well as people who are from 183 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: the dominant culture who are part of it, that institution 184 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: that like to invest. But they're able to come in 185 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:27,959 Speaker 1: for a lower entry point of a hundred or two 186 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand dollars, and we're able to aggregate 187 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: those people and be able to invest in a singular 188 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: film or slate of films or whatever we want to do. 189 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: And we've already done this and it's just now February, 190 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: and we've done two films like this already where we 191 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: were able to participate in the financing of and that's 192 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,199 Speaker 1: Passing by Rebecca Hall, which is produced by Nina Yang 193 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: bon Jovi. And we also did Stranger with a Camera 194 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 1: that's directed by Orla George that just finished rapping in Ireland. 195 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: So we are a will to participate because UM in 196 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: the financing of it, because truly, if we don't bet 197 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: on us, nobody is. And part of what Game Changer 198 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: is doing is we're domestifying and educating of like this 199 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: is how film and financing and film investment works. This 200 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: is what a return investment looks like, this is what 201 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: a waterfall looks like. This is what the steps and 202 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,559 Speaker 1: like the long lead of how you make your money back, 203 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: Like these are the things that people really need to know. Um. 204 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: And also by saying that, sometimes people think like, oh, 205 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: it's a hundred million dollars in order to invest in 206 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: a moving like no, our sweet spot is going to 207 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: be that three to five million dollar range. Right, That's 208 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: what we're looking to do and what we're looking to 209 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: be a part of, and with the investor pool that 210 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: we have so far, We're looking for people that if 211 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 1: you want to see yourself reflected back into the content 212 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: that you watch, then let's put it together. Let's let's 213 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 1: let's pool our resources. So that's part of the investor 214 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: group that we have with with Game Changer, which is great. 215 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: And then we also have the company itself, right, so 216 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: we also have equity in the company where we have 217 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: investors in the company, where I have a development fund. 218 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: And what's interesting about that development fund because film is awesome, 219 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: but it's a whole new world right now, television streaming, 220 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: you're it would be um, you wouldn't. It would be 221 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 1: poor business not to look at where the future is going, 222 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: which is streaming. It's episodic. You read any headline in 223 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: any like it's like this is the way. And film 224 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: is amazing, but like sometimes those films are theatrical, but 225 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: sometimes they're gonna land here anywhere. So what we also 226 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: have for Game Changers, I have a development fund And 227 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: that's also really important for these underrepresented content creators because 228 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: once again I'm able to take something and say, I 229 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: know what this idea is. I'm going to create a 230 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: situation where we can take it. You will be the 231 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 1: loudest voice in the room. You and do you know 232 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: how rare this is? Like you will be the loudest 233 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: voice in the room. Because we at Game Changer are 234 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: reflective of the content that we're trying to do. You 235 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: don't have to explain to us like what it's like 236 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: being this or that, because we are that, Like we 237 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: get it, and we're able to set up a model 238 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: where you're actually able to have meaningful participation, not be 239 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 1: a tool, not be something that's gonna like take it 240 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: and then like in peace out you know, um, we 241 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: will actually be able to build and I keep calling it, 242 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: it's time for us to be able to build legacy 243 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 1: and wealth. And how do you do that. It's with ownership. 244 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: And that's all that we're really trying to do is 245 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: to get that ownership. And part of what we're doing 246 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: to like we're able to put in money and development 247 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: and to package things and to flip them and to 248 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: have create a strategic partnerships. That's what it's all about. 249 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,439 Speaker 1: Like with Netflix. You know, Netflix is a little different 250 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: because Netflix will be there very much like we're going 251 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: to own this and we're going to give you a 252 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: big old premium and call it aday like that's what 253 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 1: you know you're getting into, but there's other go aheads. 254 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: But well, I was gonna ask, is there you know, 255 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: have you found is there any room for negotiation with 256 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: some of the Netflix is in the Amazon? I must 257 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: want all those global rights and basically take every bit 258 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: of potential you have to make a Well, there's it's 259 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: a little different. I mean I can say, remember we 260 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: are just starting like and I am bringing over and 261 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: this is I don't want to get this too convoluted. 262 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: But um, I've been like I said, I've been around 263 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: for a while and I've had a couple of projects 264 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: in development, and one of them is a Netflix film. 265 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: Right so that's one of the things that I'm bringing 266 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: in under the game Changer. And it's interesting where me 267 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: as an individual, you know, I there was certain like 268 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: there were certain conversations that were not even approached, right, 269 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: know what I mean? It was like, you're gonna take 270 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: this and be super grateful, and you know what, I 271 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: was super grateful. I was like, this is a great 272 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: You're gonna buy me out for what excellent? But then 273 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: there's other because now that I'm representing you don't you 274 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: don't have this you don't have nothing right, you know 275 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: what I mean? Like this is what you get. You're 276 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: making your money quick. But what's different about and then 277 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: this is I'm a little bit on a tangent. Sorry 278 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: to answer your first question. There are other streamers and 279 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: partnerships that are out there that are willing to sort 280 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: of play. They do not have the big dollars that 281 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: Netflix has. I'll be straight up like, you gotta pay 282 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: to play, like at least that's been in my experience. 283 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 1: And I'll listen to more of your podcasts because there 284 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: might be somebody that might have a different, you know, 285 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: point of view because I'm always it's like we're all 286 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: like trying to find out, like what deal did you make? 287 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: What deal did you make? And that's part of like 288 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 1: being in this sort of this new club now of 289 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: like I can write a check, but I'm still producing, 290 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: like what did you guys do you know? To figure 291 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: out you know, what's what? But you know, there's other 292 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: company needs out there and other strategic partnerships out there 293 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:07,239 Speaker 1: that you can have more profit sharing. But what's interesting 294 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: is a lot of them now I mean everybody else, 295 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: say every student, not every quite a few studios and 296 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: streamers and companies and distribute distributors. They want to own 297 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: everything because we know that's where the money is. Like 298 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: anyone who's ever looked at a quarterly report will be like, well, damn, 299 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: like I made a movie for five you know, for 300 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: like I'll say, for three million dollars and we made 301 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: nine million dollars at the box office. We're rich, you 302 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: know what I mean? And then you're like, to exactly, 303 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: and when you start looking at it, you're like, and 304 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: that's when the things we're doing a game changer to 305 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: like educate the investor of like no, no, no, no, 306 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: this is why you like half of it goes to 307 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: the exhibitor than half of it goes to the sales 308 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: and distribution. Then they have to pay for the p 309 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: and a that you had no idea that they spent 310 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: twenty million dollars on your three you know what I mean. 311 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:00,080 Speaker 1: You start having these things and then you realize that 312 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: you'll never get out from under for the rest of 313 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,120 Speaker 1: your life, right, you know. So those are the sort 314 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: of deal making that you have to be very aware 315 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 1: of and sort of savvy with, where then sometimes a 316 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: few projects where you're like, you know what I'm going 317 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 1: to go sell it to like a Netflix, because I 318 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: know I'm going to get you know, a proper rate 319 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: as you know as a director, producer, what have you. 320 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: And I know I'm going to get proper I'm going 321 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: to get my buy my premium buy out at the beginning, 322 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: and I don't have to wait for twenty years and 323 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,119 Speaker 1: you know whatever it may be. So like sometimes that's 324 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: why I think the strategic partners and also different relationships 325 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: will serve different projects. But going back to for Game Changer, 326 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: our real goal is that we want to make sure 327 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: that people have ownership and that they're the loudest voice 328 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: in the room in the creating of their projects. And 329 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: that's part of that's that how does the ownership work? 330 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: Is it more on a more traditional profit participation model? 331 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 1: For the Cree Natives? Does Game Changer own sort of 332 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: the underlying project? And then there are you know, there's 333 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 1: like sometimes a generous profit participation sometimes we do, there's 334 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: gonna be that depends upon when we come in. There's 335 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: some things that we've generated on our own and that 336 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: we're bringing people into um. Like for like, there's a book, right, 337 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: so like I have this book. I love this book. 338 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: And game Changer will pay to option exactly, will pay 339 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: to option. And then we're gonna put the team together 340 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: that is beautiful and multicultural and fabulous to make sure 341 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: that that happens, and we make sure that of course 342 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: game Changer will be um the owner ish you would say, 343 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 1: like you know, the one that would be then charge, 344 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 1: you know, because we were trying to build our library, correct, 345 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: because that's how we're going to be able to build 346 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: equity and value within our company is by the library. 347 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 1: But we're also going to be bringing in and having 348 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: ownership and allowing ownership with the other creatives as well. 349 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: We're also that's like one time and then the others 350 00:18:56,280 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: where we are just straight up investors. You know, there's 351 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 1: some projects where we're like you already have it, you 352 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 1: own it. We're just gonna participate, you know, We're gonna 353 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,199 Speaker 1: own like as a regular investor for the life of 354 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: the project. We're gonna you know, be participating in that 355 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 1: for like you know that thirty or forty percent or 356 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 1: sixty percent of whatever the moneys that we put in, 357 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 1: and the hope is that in success that becomes an 358 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 1: annuity that exactly for the exactly what that just like 359 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: the way the studios do it exactly. That's the thing, 360 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:27,880 Speaker 1: and there's certain things like we can't like that's exactly 361 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:30,640 Speaker 1: it like we just we have just never had an 362 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: opportunity to play in that because we've always not I'm 363 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 1: the bing seeking in very generalities, but like we haven't 364 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: had access to the resources. And so now that you know, 365 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: the thing, for me, I was like, whoa, I have 366 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: access to resources. Like I got a plan, right, you 367 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:47,679 Speaker 1: know what I mean? I have a plan and I 368 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: have people. Now that I have access to the resources, 369 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: we're going to diversify. We have the investor group, we 370 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: have the equity and the company, we have the development fund. 371 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: We can now start to deploy our finances and be 372 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: able to start building, which has got to be feel 373 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:10,120 Speaker 1: very gratifying so many I could literally I know it's 374 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: and it really is. I wish you like a, I 375 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: have to tell you it's going to sound a little 376 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: like I've worked so hard to get here to do 377 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: the work like it's really and it's like and that's 378 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: where and I I've worked like so hard just to 379 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,920 Speaker 1: be able to have the opportunity to play on this level. 380 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: And you know, people like people like, oh, I want 381 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 1: to be worked so hard to retire with millions of dollars. 382 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: I'm like, no, this is all that I've ever wanted 383 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: to be able to. Like, let's build a machine. Let's 384 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:49,160 Speaker 1: build it like where we can all prosper and I finally, 385 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, after like twentysomething years of 386 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: like and you know, and being able to be able 387 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: to build something with the founders and people that actually 388 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: believe because I don't. You know, this is not like 389 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 1: getting on a cross and I'm not and I don't 390 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,959 Speaker 1: believe in playing a victim because it's boring, you know, 391 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 1: but it is a fact that, you know, there is 392 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: systemic racism and massasheny that's out there, and no matter 393 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: how badass I think I am, how like studios have 394 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,439 Speaker 1: employed me as a producer, you know, because I can 395 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: go in and whip something into shape and make something 396 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: on time and on price and creative instincts. But like, 397 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: I've never had anybody to back me. I've never had 398 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 1: anybody to be like, all right, we're going to back 399 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: you in this vision because backing you in this vision 400 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: will back others, right, you know, because that's I'm like, 401 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 1: that's it and I'm like, what, thank you? Does it 402 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: feel a little different for somebody like yourself to look 403 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 1: around and go, wait, where's the studio, where's the where's 404 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: the distribution and the sales like finance, so it's they're there. 405 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 1: I mean, like I'm not going to buy no means 406 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: am I a distributor? Like you know what I mean? 407 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: Like I want very very clear about that. Like that's 408 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: like I know how to make movies, and I know 409 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:05,679 Speaker 1: how to finance, and I know how to bet on 410 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: a good horse like that our film, you know what 411 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 1: I mean? Like that I know we're not doing racing 412 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 1: gambling like a question to like wait a minute, what 413 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: now now? Like I know, like that's my forte Like 414 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: I know how to produce my ass off. What I 415 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 1: do want to do is to be able to make 416 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: partnerships with the distributor. Where will be a we when 417 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: I say we, like the content creators, us two people 418 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 1: who have actually put it in, will be actually able 419 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,640 Speaker 1: to see something in a meaningful way. And the only 420 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:37,439 Speaker 1: way that we're able to do that is if we 421 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: come to the table with money, right, if we have 422 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 1: skin in the game to be like I'm not looking 423 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: for you to like it's not a charity. This is 424 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: not you like taking a shot on someone, you know 425 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: what I mean? This is like no, like we're coming 426 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: in with half the budget or more than the budget, 427 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 1: or we're coming in and we're employing you to do 428 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: the job. That's what makes it different. That's when I 429 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:01,120 Speaker 1: look around. It's leverage. It's all the sudden not feeling. 430 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,199 Speaker 1: And this is you know, people make your own like 431 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: at the seat at the table. I don't know. I 432 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 1: mean it's true, like yeah, we're you know, the seat 433 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: at the table. We're here, we should you know, all 434 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,360 Speaker 1: that good stuff. But there's still a bit of like 435 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: and I keep calling it a colonized mind of being, 436 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: like it's hard to you know, not hard. It's constant 437 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:25,159 Speaker 1: mental gymnastics that other people don't have to do. But 438 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,160 Speaker 1: if you are underrepresented, we are constantly having to do 439 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: the Wait a minute, we now have money. You can't 440 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: treat us this way, right, you know what I mean? 441 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 1: Like wait a minute, Wait a minute. We actually are 442 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: coming to the table with it, like we are like 443 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 1: we legit are the tech, we legit maybe don't need 444 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: you and think about things something in a different way. 445 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 1: That's what's That's what's different now, whereas being by myself 446 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: as an indie producer or freelance producer, like there's no 447 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 1: such thing as like really indie anymore. Being a freelance producer, 448 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 1: you know, it's very different than coming with support and 449 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: resources and having backing, Like it's so much more powerful 450 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,399 Speaker 1: and being able to do good work. Was that a 451 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: learning curve for you to speak the language of money 452 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: and investors? Oh, I'm still doing it? Are you kidding me? 453 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: The only I'm still remember it, Like we just announced 454 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:24,719 Speaker 1: in January and so we have investors and now, like 455 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 1: I am, I think what's working for me is that 456 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: people can look in my like looking at like you know, 457 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 1: look in my heart and my eyes and just see 458 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: that like oh my, like you can see my earnestness, 459 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: you can see that. I'm like, you can feel it. 460 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,439 Speaker 1: You can feel it, you know what? Through the podcast 461 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: here you feel like I'm on a soapbox, and like 462 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,719 Speaker 1: I believe, like I believe, you know, so, like I 463 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: think the investors and the money people are like, well, 464 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: she like, oh well she definitely believes, you know, I 465 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,439 Speaker 1: think that they But I also like I remember having 466 00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: early you know, conversations with investors and saying things of 467 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: like oh, you know, and this is and this is 468 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: might be a terrible thing to bring up, but it 469 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: just goes to show where I was like, oh, you 470 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: know where we have conversations about meritocracy and I was like, 471 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,199 Speaker 1: there is no meritocracy. I'm like, well, that's why you 472 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: know one of the things about affirmative action. And then 473 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,479 Speaker 1: it would look like I literally said something that like 474 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: was the worst thing ever because I was like, no, 475 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,199 Speaker 1: but I talked about my father right of going in 476 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: and like because they if we didn't, if we weren't in, 477 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 1: like we were qualified if you gout, you know, we 478 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: had to get in some sort of way to show 479 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: how qualified we were. And then both interesting to the investors, 480 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 1: they were like what amative action? And that's when I 481 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: realized I was like, oh, my audience is different. Speaking 482 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: to someone of color, who it's a sixty year old 483 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: black man, are a man of our person of color 484 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 1: is very different than talking to a six year old 485 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: white man. Their experiences are completely experience are completely different. 486 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: And to be able to see, you know, like and 487 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: that's where I've had to learn of like, oh, I 488 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,360 Speaker 1: have to sort of shift where like you think that 489 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 1: people like you're just gonna make it up by your bootstraps, 490 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And I'll be like, oh, 491 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: I'm black and a woman. I have to work twice 492 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: as hard, twice as smart to get half of it, 493 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like that has been the 494 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: m O UM. But I also I've had to figure 495 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: out how not to um. I want to say, like 496 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 1: I have to speak in terms of success and being 497 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: proactive and not in terms of victim and sort of blaming. 498 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:32,439 Speaker 1: Do you know what I'm saying? Because that's something that 499 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 1: like it um turn it's a turn off, you know 500 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: what I mean? Even though I have to start, i'd 501 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 1: sort of change it to be like this is how 502 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: we can do something about it. To your point that 503 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: this is not charity, This is not something you should 504 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,160 Speaker 1: This is an investor business. Like yeah, I know, now 505 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: you just took took the reins a couple of months ago, 506 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 1: but has game change? Game Changer has been around since 507 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: two thousand thirteen. If I'm not mistaken, have they delivered 508 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 1: a return to investors? They have delivered a return to 509 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: invest And if I'm not mistaken, and don't hold me 510 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: to it, we can might do a little research at 511 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: six And before that was it was a film fund. 512 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,400 Speaker 1: This is different. We're not a fund. We're a financing 513 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: group and we have a development. But they did a 514 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: film fund and it was for I believe ten films 515 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,439 Speaker 1: and they did great. I mean, like I was the 516 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 1: only reason why I'm even here is because it did 517 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: because you know what I mean, like Manette Louis. I 518 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: have to give her a big shout out, Like Manette Louie, 519 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 1: like she built the you know, the base of which 520 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: I'm able to like jump off, you know what I mean. 521 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,719 Speaker 1: So they made ten films and car and Kusama's The Invitation, 522 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,199 Speaker 1: which I loved, and they did Jennifer Director, she's I'm 523 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,239 Speaker 1: I've never heard of her now she's amazing. Like I 524 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: want to I'm like, please come back, please work with 525 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,639 Speaker 1: us again. This is my desperate ploy um. And like 526 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: Jennifer Fox is the tail, like they've done really great movies. 527 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: But it was on that slate sort of financing where 528 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: one or two of them could have broke out, which 529 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 1: helped the whole. Let me ask you the kind of 530 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 1: the the existential question for for indie filmmakers can you 531 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: make money on a movie budgeted at three to five million? 532 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 1: Is that? Is that possible if you in the absence 533 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 1: of getting completely lucky and catching Well, here's the thing. 534 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 1: The answer is yes to that. But it's a long game. 535 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 1: Like remember when I was talking about like many many 536 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 1: windows and many many windows years, and you have to 537 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: be smart about it. Like if you own your three 538 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,199 Speaker 1: to five million dollar movie, then you know that you 539 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,479 Speaker 1: know every like five to seven. If you make a 540 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,439 Speaker 1: five year licensing deal, usually their ten to fifteen years, 541 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: like you're able to keep it going right and too 542 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: in the in the library and all of that. The 543 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 1: long tail, the long tail, like that's exactly that's the way, 544 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: which is why you know, um, you could do better 545 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: with like a million or two million. Those are brutal 546 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: to make, but those are easier to flip the three 547 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 1: to five. And the reason why the three to five, 548 00:28:57,880 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: I mean it might be getting a little too much 549 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: in the weeds, no no, please, is just because like 550 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: it's the P and a right like and that's what 551 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: people like to really you know, some of the things 552 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: we want to talk about with our investor group to 553 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: be like, let me show you how a movie is 554 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: really made. Like you think you've won if you stayed 555 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: on time and on budget, Like that's just the beginning, baby, right, 556 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: that's you have to get your distributor to be like 557 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: how much is your sales going to take off of that? 558 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: How much are they going to build off? You know? 559 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: And like when they say like world doesn't travel really 560 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: like or say when they say that, like your movies 561 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,959 Speaker 1: don't travel in the world really like sure they do, right, 562 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like who's gonna go? Like 563 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: you have to do. It's a lot of due diligence, 564 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,719 Speaker 1: and then people don't realize when you do. Like the 565 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: thing I'm curious about is that theatrical And this is 566 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: I don't have the answer where I talked to filmmakers 567 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: and like a film is a film, But I'm like, 568 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: do you wanted people to see your movie or do 569 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: you want to have that sort of theatrical experience because 570 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: maybe there's a sweet spot like a lot of people 571 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: taking out in festivals. Are you for like, you know, 572 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: a short term like to qualify for the you know, 573 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 1: but really, if you want it to be seen, we 574 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: have to be smart about how are people vieeling content? 575 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: And also globally. Like that's the other thing too that 576 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: I'm excited about for Game Changer. It's a big world 577 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: than just domestic bit, you know. I'm like, I want 578 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: to go to Africa, right, you know what I mean, 579 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:21,959 Speaker 1: I'm like, what are y'all doing? A god a Nigeria? 580 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: Like that's not like That's where I'm talking about. And 581 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: so I keep talking about in television. I will say, 582 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: like Kenyan Nigeria are some of the hottest markets for 583 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 1: both buying content from Hollywood but obviously creating. They have 584 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: truly like apparently truly robust you know, telenovela type of 585 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: production facilities, which is really you know, which which the 586 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: potential for talent development and the potential for people to 587 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: you know, come out like you know, if you want 588 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: that non stereotype story that you haven't read fifteen times before, 589 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: that's what we could be coming from another And that's 590 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Also, that's the part of the strategic partnerships. 591 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,959 Speaker 1: We've already talked to a few producers and directors in 592 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: South Africa already have a couple we already have a 593 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: couple of like low budget you know, And I say 594 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: low like that like three to five, which is like 595 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: a lot there, you know what I mean, Like those 596 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: sorts of movies and content for sure, and I'm super 597 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: excited about that. Do you have like a target in 598 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: terms of number of films or projects you want to 599 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: have it? And Nope, it can be totally organic in 600 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: terms of what that is the beauty of it. I mean, 601 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: here's the thing too, You catch me in two years, 602 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: I might have a different story, like you know what 603 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: I mean. Like I also, I'm gonna like I'm not 604 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: gonna beat myself up of like we're fresh and we're 605 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: hope springs eternal. I've done one movie in Ireland, We've 606 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: done one movie here in New York. Um, we have 607 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: more that's coming with Netflix and all of that. Like 608 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: we're doing well. But as of right now, I'm going 609 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: to relish at the moment that I get to pick 610 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: quality over quantity. Is this a different experience for you 611 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: in terms of not being very hands on one project 612 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: and one or two projects at a time versus Oh 613 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: my god, I love it, I love it, I love it. 614 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 1: I'm old. I'm tired and I'm sorry, you know what 615 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: I mean of like this, and like I'm tired like, 616 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: you know, I really gave myself, like I have twelve years. 617 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: I'm like I I have. I had no desire anymore 618 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 1: to be on set eighteen hours a day, to be 619 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: first person in, last person to leave, Like it's exhausting. 620 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: It's exhausting. And and remember I'm coming from Indie, so 621 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: my indie and freelance producers, no, like we're making less 622 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: than minimum wage once all the hours are said and done, 623 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It would be different if 624 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: I were getting paid millions of dollars to do it. 625 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: But I'm not like literally like it's like wow, like 626 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: they've done movies where I've almost lost my house, but 627 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 1: they are critically acclaimed movies, right you know. So no, 628 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: I'm loving the fact that I have again support where 629 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: I can, the fact that I know how to pay 630 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: my mortgage, like it's I know it sounds like funny, 631 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: but like for freelance producers like to be like wow, 632 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 1: like I can actually like you know what I mean, 633 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: like to put money away, I know where everything is 634 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: coming and I can get to work like I love that. 635 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: I love, like I nothing makes me happier than going 636 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: to a set around lunchtime and buying a coffee cart 637 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: on their Faturday, right, you know what I mean, nothing 638 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 1: makes me, Nothing makes me happier, you know, because I 639 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 1: we employ. Because my whole thing too, it's about legacy. 640 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 1: I need to you know, I'm invested in growing our 641 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: next producers. I mean, I can't be exactly like I 642 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: can't be out here in these streets for much longer. 643 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: I gave myself a deadline, like I'm like, where are 644 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: we like, and that's how we you know, That's why 645 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: I call it my just gonna sound morose, but like 646 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: I call it my deathbed, like I know I will 647 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: have made it if I can look around my deathbed 648 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: and see that I have helped level the playing field 649 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: of Hollywood. If I can look around and I can 650 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 1: see like the women, people of color, lgbt Q, and 651 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: people have disabilities to people that I have, Like they're 652 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 1: now producing and like you and making their own way 653 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: and having their own companies with their own funds. Like 654 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 1: that's my high five. Like that's what I'm like, I've won. 655 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 1: I've done it, you know what I mean. Anyway, I'm 656 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 1: sorry for that funds. I'm like I'm on a soapbox 657 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 1: and sounding like I'm at church. But do you find, um, 658 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 1: the kind of the role of the producer can be 659 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: so hard for to kind of explain to people on 660 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,839 Speaker 1: the outside. Do you find that people young people coming up? 661 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,880 Speaker 1: You know, there are people that are born and they 662 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 1: know they want to be directors at six years old. 663 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:30,840 Speaker 1: There they people know they want to be screenwriters. Do 664 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,240 Speaker 1: you find people come into the system knowing they want 665 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 1: to be in the producer function or is that something 666 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: they come to later. I don't know. I mean, that's 667 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 1: really interesting. I hope by the time, like I call 668 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: about the deathbed like that people will be like, I 669 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,399 Speaker 1: want to be a producer. I don't think people are 670 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 1: educated enough. And that's part of like what's really important 671 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 1: for us is to educate people of what are all 672 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,320 Speaker 1: the positions on a set and what does a producer 673 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,319 Speaker 1: actually do? Like if I knew I actually wanted to 674 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 1: be a producer when I was a kid, I didn't 675 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: know what it was. All I saw. I was like, oh, 676 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,440 Speaker 1: I know that I wanted to do that. What was 677 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 1: ever on the TV or in the movie screen? I 678 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 1: knew that that's what I wanted to do, So I 679 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:10,800 Speaker 1: was like, oh, maybe I have to be an actor. 680 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:12,760 Speaker 1: And then I was like, oh, I can't handle rejection 681 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,400 Speaker 1: and I love carbs, so that will never happen, right, 682 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:16,719 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I was like, but I 683 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: got into college on that, right, you know what I mean? 684 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,760 Speaker 1: I was like, this is not for me, and this directing, 685 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, not for me either. To many people 686 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: are talking to me all the time, asking me random 687 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: questions like that's not my spirit. But I was like, oh, 688 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 1: but you know what I am great at, and that 689 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,800 Speaker 1: why I've wanted to be a part of it anyway, 690 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:37,280 Speaker 1: is putting together the functional dysfunctional family. Like that's my jam. 691 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 1: I'm I'm an army brat, right, so my thing is 692 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: like what's the plan? What hell are we taking? And 693 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: rallying up the trip and you know, I mean like 694 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 1: it doesn't take a genius like rallying up the troops 695 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,319 Speaker 1: and like, let's take it. We can do it. You know, 696 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:51,319 Speaker 1: That's what I'm good at. And I was like, Oh, 697 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: that's what a producer does, executes the vision, Like what's 698 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: the plan? Man, Like, I'll come up with the plan. 699 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: I'll execute your vision. This is the plan. Let's that? Like, 700 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 1: that's what like And if I would have known like 701 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 1: as a kid that that's what a producer was. I 702 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 1: would have been like, oh, for sure, I could have 703 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 1: bypassed like the you know, the the salads and the 704 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 1: rejection of trying to be an you know what I mean, 705 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: where I was like this sucks, you know, and directing 706 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 1: of being like, M like, I don't care what color 707 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: wallpaper that is on this room, you know what I mean? Like, 708 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: isn't that your job? And I was like, oh, no, 709 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:27,240 Speaker 1: that is my job. I'm the director, right, I'm supposed 710 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,279 Speaker 1: to care about everything, you know. The last let's call 711 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 1: it five years, five to six years, there has been 712 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 1: a it feels like, a more robust conversation in the 713 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 1: entertainment industry about diversity, about inclusion, about who gets to 714 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:48,320 Speaker 1: tell the stories and what level of inclusion is important 715 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,120 Speaker 1: behind the scenes and in the executive suites and in 716 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,239 Speaker 1: the decision making process. For somebody who has been in 717 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 1: the trenches for years and years, has anything changed has them? 718 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,400 Speaker 1: Has there been a shift in mindset? Has there been 719 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 1: a you It change happens by degrees. What do you 720 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: see as having changed over the Oscar so White and 721 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 1: all the conversations that have been had, I feel that 722 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 1: Hollywood is but a reflection of the world that we 723 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: live in. Okay, So I want you to take in 724 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,280 Speaker 1: a consideration where we are right now, the political climate, 725 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,800 Speaker 1: not just in the US, but looking around the world, 726 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 1: right and what sort of movements have sort of come 727 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:40,320 Speaker 1: up and what sort of backlashes. Right, I think that 728 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,920 Speaker 1: you know, in terms of now moving into Hollywood and 729 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 1: the micro cosm you know of Hollywood. Um, people are 730 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 1: talking a really good game, you know. Like a friend 731 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 1: of mine and I love her, had the raise she said. 732 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,760 Speaker 1: My grandmother used to say, beware of liberals who smile, 733 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: for they have sharp teeth. And I think that that 734 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 1: might be a bit of where we are when I 735 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: talk to people. You know, I'm very aware of, um, 736 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 1: that people are doing a bit of lip service. I'll 737 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 1: call it that you guys have labs, now you have this, 738 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,279 Speaker 1: you have that they're not even looking and I'm just paraphrasing, 739 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,800 Speaker 1: they're not even a white guy can't even get hired 740 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,720 Speaker 1: because everyone's looking for a woman or a person of color, 741 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,239 Speaker 1: blah blah blah. Like it started, you start hearing that 742 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,239 Speaker 1: a little bit more and to the point where the person, 743 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:37,719 Speaker 1: if you are a person of color or one of 744 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 1: these underrepresented people. It's sort of the backlash of that 745 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 1: is you should be happy. Look at all the programs 746 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 1: and things that we have. People are talking about you guys. 747 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: Now imagine being me. No one's talking about me anymore, 748 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, And you have this moment 749 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,640 Speaker 1: and you're like mm hmm. That's a hustle. In my opinion, 750 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 1: I call that like that's a part of that colonized mind. 751 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 1: And that's a part of a hustle where I tell 752 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,919 Speaker 1: people and they's a fine line of like, we must 753 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:06,320 Speaker 1: not become complacent and we must not you know, offer 754 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:11,440 Speaker 1: high fives and congratulations over a lab here or workshop there, 755 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,759 Speaker 1: or of diversity award here, because you know what, why 756 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,400 Speaker 1: should I be congratulating you on something that should have 757 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,239 Speaker 1: been the norm to begin with? Right, Like that's where 758 00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,279 Speaker 1: I go, Like why should I be high fiving you 759 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,719 Speaker 1: for saying that you have women in your room? You're 760 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,120 Speaker 1: supposed to have, you know what I mean. It's like this, 761 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: like like why are you like for get Like that's 762 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 1: where I go, and I go, and there's but it's 763 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,279 Speaker 1: a thing where there's where the next thing that comes 764 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 1: out of people's mouth, who is the dominant culture. I'll 765 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 1: just say, when are you guys going to be satisfied? Right? Like, 766 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,440 Speaker 1: that's the thing that you start hearing of, like when 767 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,319 Speaker 1: are you going to be satisfied? We're doing this, this 768 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 1: and this. It takes time, you guys gotta wait your turn. 769 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 1: And they'd be like bullshit, right, you know what I mean? 770 00:39:57,719 --> 00:39:59,839 Speaker 1: So that so those are the like when you ask 771 00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:03,040 Speaker 1: a what are you hearing now? I'm hearing that. I'm 772 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:09,719 Speaker 1: hearing that sort of undertone and subtext of conversations where 773 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 1: people are trying to look at us being diversity and 774 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,279 Speaker 1: inclusive and we have this, this and this, and then 775 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,680 Speaker 1: you realize, do you though? And the am I supposed 776 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 1: to just be happy and quiet that You've thrown out 777 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 1: a few crumbs that I'm supposed to make a meal 778 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:28,160 Speaker 1: out of. I say, no, you know, I don't think 779 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: I you know, I don't I don't think that we 780 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 1: need to Like again, I keep repeating myself, I don't 781 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:35,359 Speaker 1: think that, you know, the underrepresented folks, that we need 782 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 1: to be complacent and happy with the crumbs. I think 783 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 1: we have a plan, and I think we need to 784 00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:46,680 Speaker 1: get and keep on that plan, which is gathering us, 785 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:51,239 Speaker 1: you know, our financial resources and being able to back 786 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 1: the projects that we want to see period. And we 787 00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:59,440 Speaker 1: can be partners with everybody, but we will have to 788 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:04,400 Speaker 1: come to the table with something. Nothing speaks louder in 789 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 1: Hollywood than money, right, and coming to the table with 790 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 1: money is making the change. Effie Brown, I would not 791 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:15,520 Speaker 1: bet against you and game changer. Thank you so much 792 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:17,440 Speaker 1: for your time, good luck with everything. I'm gonna take 793 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,960 Speaker 1: you up on it. We're going to check in two years, okay, perfect. 794 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,839 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Be sure to tune in next week 795 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,040 Speaker 1: for another episode of Strictly Business.