1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Hey, before this episode begins, I just want to make 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: sure you know that this series gets into some things 3 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: that might be triggering to some listeners, specifically depression and suicide. 4 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: If you or someone you know is struggling with suicidal thoughts, 5 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: please seek assistance from a mental health professional, or visit 6 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: the National Institute of Mental Health website at n I 7 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: m H dot ni H dot g o V for resources. 8 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: If you're currently in crisis, you can call one eight 9 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,479 Speaker 1: hundred to seven three talk that's eight two five five, 10 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,480 Speaker 1: or text the word hello to seven for one seven 11 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: for one to speak to someone immediately. Thank you for listening, 12 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: and I guess why that's me and Alex singing Britney 13 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: Spears as Womanizer. In two thousand nine, were on a 14 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: farm in Michigan, out of the city to clear our heads. 15 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: We had spent the weekend hiking, getting high, cooking, and 16 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: having a sit down meal. More than anything, there was 17 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: just a lot of laying around. In the exhausting years 18 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: I spent racing to earn a master's degree, that trip 19 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: stands out as a rare stretch of time where I 20 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: did almost nothing at all. One afternoon, Alex and I 21 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: wandered into a bedroom in the farmhouse, where we came 22 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: across an old pump organ of some sort. I laid 23 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: down on the bed while he took a seat at 24 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: the keys and started playing womanizer, or at least an 25 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: approximation of it. You you got to go in. After 26 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: Alex died, one of the friends who was on that 27 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: trip with us went looking for footage of this moment, 28 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: eventually finding it in her ex's Facebook archives. She sent 29 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: it to me and we reminisced about what a special 30 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: trip that was and how spending time with Alex had 31 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: changed us both. This episode, I want you to get 32 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: to know Alex a bit more and meet some of 33 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: the people who were transformed by his presence in their lives. 34 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: To know him is to know a bit of each 35 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 1: of us. What happens when you lose someone so close 36 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: to you that you can trace the ways they shaped 37 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: your life, your personality, and what are you supposed to 38 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: do when they leave behind a trail for you to follow. 39 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: I'm Chris Studman and this is unread episode two piece 40 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: of Me. Call them back all the little clean open 41 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: dread that Stills sent for you back. Yeah, Sandy, Eva, 42 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: I said, be scared, stared breaking. While singing Womanizer Alex 43 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: and I intentionally pitched our voices down as a contrast 44 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: to Britney's higher voice in the song and to match 45 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: the bizarre flat way he was playing the organ. But 46 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: lowering my voice comes naturally to me as a closeted 47 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: queer kid, I trained myself to speak deeper than I 48 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: naturally would. Growing up, I've been loud and talkative, but 49 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: when I realized that flamboyance might give away my queerness, 50 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: I went quiet. Suddenly, hyper attuned to how I was 51 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: being perceived at all times, I started pitching myself down 52 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: in voice and temperament. I began coming out as a teenager, 53 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: first to Internet strangers, then my mom, then friends. As 54 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: the circle widened, I let my guard down bit by bit, 55 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: bringing the parts of myself I had tucked away back 56 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: into the light. Still, the habit of hiding had become 57 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: so instinctual, so built into the fabric of who I was, 58 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: that I kept making myself smaller in ways I wasn't 59 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: always aware of, including my speech. Here. I am as 60 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: a teenager when I appeared in a documentary film about 61 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: a summer camp for lgbt Q teens. I'd gone through 62 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: puberty at this point, but you can hear the intentionally 63 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: layered bush nous of my tone. It seems to me 64 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: like some people are getting the wrong impression about me. 65 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, people may notice that I act. 66 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: I don't know the word that some of them uses 67 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: goofy a lot, because you know, I like to have fun. Um, 68 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: and maybe it is acting stupid, but I do like 69 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: to be stupid down and then too. Um. Anyway, I 70 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: know I'm rambling, but my point is, Um, I think 71 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 1: some people have gotten the wrong impression of me, and 72 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: that does blug me a little bit because I don't 73 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: like people to think differently about me, because I can 74 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: be really serious at times and I know that, you know, 75 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,359 Speaker 1: I just basically, I just want to be myself. So 76 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: hopefully that's coming across right. This defensive diet tribe is funny, 77 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 1: but I WinCE hearing it now. I grew up thinking 78 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: that presenting a polished version of myself would keep me safe. That's, 79 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 1: seeming smart or accomplished rather than irresponsible or carefree, was 80 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 1: key to survival. I was terrified that because I was 81 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: letting go and having fun at camp. People wouldn't see 82 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: me as serious or thoughtful, or of any value at all. 83 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: I can hear the fear in my voice in that documentary, 84 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: still low, even though I've been out of the closet 85 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: for years by that point, A fear of people seeing 86 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: my unrestrained self of being too much. We all self 87 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 1: monitor and compartmentalize. Every one of us edits curates, tucks 88 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: away certain parts of ourselves, and tries to show a 89 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: more controlled self image to the world, especially online. Still, 90 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 1: sometimes we perform a certain kind of self because we 91 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: want to, and other times we do it because we 92 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: feel we have to. For a lot of my life 93 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: it felt necessary to present a team er version of 94 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,799 Speaker 1: myself to the world. I learned to hide, and hiding 95 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: became habit. But then I met Alex. How are a 96 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: little from on our little postre? How don't for us 97 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: to throw off its coat and to talk more? Because 98 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: Alex was hard to miss, six ft four, always in 99 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: a T shirt, hair never styled. He looked wild like Bigfoot. 100 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: If Bigfoot was sensitive, gay and love to quote Britney lyrics, 101 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: he could be just as elusive to He'd lose a 102 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: whole day in internet forms, and the next he'd be 103 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: off getting lost in a national park. He was restless 104 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: and impulsive. He once suggested we go on an impromptu 105 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 1: camping trip, and after driving for hours without being able 106 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: to find an open campsite anywhere, said we should just 107 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: go back to my place and watch Shakira she Wolf 108 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: music video on repeat instead. Another time, he set up 109 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: sleeping bags on the roof of his mom's house for 110 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: us because the temperature was perfect that night, and he 111 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: said he never slept at an angle before. When Alex 112 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: and I met on Okay Cupid, I was living on 113 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: the South side of Chicago working on a masters in religion, 114 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: and he was living with his mom and sister up 115 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: in Skokie, a suburb just northwest of the city. At first, 116 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: we kind of sort of dated, but romance quickly turned 117 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: to friendship. Then about a year after we met, I 118 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: was off to the East Coast chase a job at Harvard. 119 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: Within a couple of years, he left Chicago to following 120 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: his compass out west. Alex and I both moved around 121 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: a lot over our decade of friendship, though for different reasons. 122 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: I pretty much always moved for some new, better job. Well, 123 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: he would pick up and move whenever whim struck. Here's 124 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: a voicemail he left me in. Sorry I've been like 125 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: you know whatever. But first of all, I was a 126 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: new microphone now and no one ever returned phone calls 127 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 1: or ever names out so and lay little bitch now. 128 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: He wasn't flaky, but he was a restless spirit, forever 129 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: on the move. But wherever he was going, whether it 130 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: was a road trip to try some new roller coaster 131 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 1: or an impulsive amateur storm chase, it was always with 132 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: a deep sense of self intact tornado chasing in East 133 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: Colorado and a tornado just hit the ground fifteen miles away. 134 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: I'm excited. I'm a big boy, I'm a scientist, I'm 135 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 1: a meteorologies. In Alex, I found a person who was 136 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: singularly true to his nature, someone who, despite the world's 137 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 1: best attempts to make him feel like he was too intense, 138 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: seemed considerably less worried about how he was coming across 139 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: or proving his worthiness than I was. Alex didn't care 140 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: about all the ways I hid. He didn't love me 141 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: because of how busy I was, or because I seemed smart, 142 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: but because of who I was. The person he saw 143 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: behind the facade around Alex. I didn't have to pitch 144 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: my voice down unless I wanted to. For fun made 145 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: them Let's go back to the evening. I got Alex's 146 00:09:55,480 --> 00:10:02,719 Speaker 1: goodbye email in December Chris listen. He began, I am 147 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: writing to let you know that when you receive this 148 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: scheduled email, I will no longer be alive. He explained 149 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: that his depression had gotten so bad that he was 150 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 1: in too much pain and felt he needed to, as 151 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: he put it, opt out. Then he started talking about 152 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: our friendship. Words fail me these days, he said. All 153 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: I want to say is how much I love you 154 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: and cherish everything about you. I'm sorry I lost touch 155 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 1: with you. If only I could explain, it's just words, words, words, 156 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: too many words. I hope you understand you are one 157 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: of the best people I've ever known. I don't know 158 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: how else to say it. It's very get naked, I 159 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: got a plan or quicksand and yes, that last line 160 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: was Britney song titles. Again. I know, I'm so lucky 161 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: to have this email. When Alex died, I was plagued 162 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 1: by worry that I hadn't been supportive enough, but he 163 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: offered me the profound gift of putting into words what 164 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: I had meant to him. He did this for others too. 165 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: From what I've been able to gather, Alex sent out 166 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: at least a dozen emails to friends and family, and 167 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: also left a note saying there were many others he 168 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: couldn't summon the ability to write notes too, but who 169 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: he wanted to know. We're loved to. Each of us 170 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 1: who did get an email got a piece of what 171 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: felt like a disjointed story tailored to our connection with him. 172 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: It was like Alex's last act was to disperse little 173 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: fragments of himself across the world, and we could only 174 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: piece together the full story by finding one another. First, 175 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: an email thread began with all of us who got notes, 176 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 1: where we swapped stories about Alex. Then a smaller crew 177 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: started a group chat, almost by accident, initially to coordinate 178 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: around planning a meet up in California and share some 179 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: updates on Alex's memorial in Chicago, where his mom lives. 180 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: Before long, the six of us in this group chat, 181 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 1: we're talking so often that we gave ourselves a name 182 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: Team Thor Daniels, a pseudonym Alex sometimes used online. I 183 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: want to offer some of their pieces of Alex's story 184 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: with you, the ways he helped them find their voice too. 185 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: There's Bath. She was on the phone with a friend 186 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: when she got her email. I was like, I think 187 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: my friend just killed himself. And he's like, what, oh 188 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: my god, Okay, do you need to go or can 189 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: I help you? I was like, I think I just 190 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: need to go. So I'm in my backyard here in 191 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: front of my garage and I just respond right away 192 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 1: like Alex, wait, call me. I want you to stay. 193 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: And I said I love you and I always will. 194 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: I just said thank you for bringing you. Um, he 195 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:59,199 Speaker 1: made my life better. Alex once introduced me in Bath 196 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: over Twitter because we were his two blue check friends. Well, 197 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 1: my check is questionable. Beth is legit famous and for 198 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 1: good reason. Like Alex, she's thoughtful, empathetic, but perhaps above 199 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: all else, a comedic genius. A couple of months after 200 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: Alex died, Beth came to my city to film a 201 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,959 Speaker 1: comedy special for HBO Max. It's called Girl Daddy. You 202 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: should definitely watch it. And I'm also not on birth 203 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: control because sometimes birth control is like I know you're hungry, 204 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:34,319 Speaker 1: but what if you cried. She dedicated the special to Alex, 205 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,559 Speaker 1: whose free spirited nous influenced so much of her approach 206 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: to humor. He really was he was sort of already 207 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,199 Speaker 1: out of this world before he left this world. And 208 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: that sounds maybe cheesy, but in death people can be 209 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,959 Speaker 1: made to seem like greater than they are. But really 210 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: I think it's just more looking back and analyzing how 211 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: great he really was. Like he really just was, I mean, 212 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,599 Speaker 1: someone I still would like to be more like. And 213 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: I wish I absorbed more about while he was here. 214 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: But when you were around him, you got to act 215 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: that way, you know, or feel a little bit of it. 216 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: Um just the fully not afraid to be yourself. I 217 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: just I mean, it sounds silly to say I envy it, 218 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: but yeah. There's James, who, like me, also met Alex 219 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: on a dating app, and the photo that he had 220 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: was him like outside with like kind of a douchey 221 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: smile in a backwards hat, but there's also like a 222 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: cat on his shoulder, and I was like, okay. I 223 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: remember clicking on his Instagram account and like seeing a 224 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: lot of shots of him like just outdoors, and like 225 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: it seemed very like kind of posed and very like 226 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: mask for mask, but then like interspersed with that would 227 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: be like bizarre images of Britney spears and just like 228 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: all this random stuff thrown in, which I mean at 229 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: the time was like I think that's kind of what 230 00:14:57,840 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: made me intrigue to like talk to him, because he wasn't. 231 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: It's like some dude, I knew nothing of James before 232 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: Alex died, but I get why Alex messaged him. He's cute, funny, 233 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: so sweet and supportive. As I started looking for Alice, 234 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: James became one of my biggest cheerleaders, and like Alex, 235 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 1: he always did it in a teasing way that kept 236 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: me from taking any of it too seriously. I think 237 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: Alex did for him too. There's so many people that 238 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: he connected with online that don't have any relationship to 239 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: each other. Like, no, I'm really glad you mentioned that, because, like, yeah, 240 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: in the months after Alex died, I was like randomly 241 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: tracking down people who he knew, because like I was 242 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: just trying to like be useful somehow. You know, it 243 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: is useful. It was more selfish than anything. No, I 244 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: don't think it's selfish. I mean the image of it. 245 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: You feel like that name of like Charlie and always 246 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: studying in Philadelphia, like with in the office, like surrounded 247 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: by like putting strings in between one of my favorite 248 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: names ever. And that's a picture you making this podcast. 249 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: I'm not even joking. It is truly an image that 250 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: has come into my head multiple times. Just pianic gig 251 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: and sweating and like seeing things. Yeah, that's definitely you've 252 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: got me nailed there. Next, there's Due, who lives in Croatia. 253 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: Do It is funny in a way that no description 254 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: could do justice. He's unhinged, so witty, and I know 255 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: he'd want me to say he's extremely cute too. Well, technically, 256 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: what he really want me to say is that he's 257 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: cuter than James. Is James doing this? Yeah, I'm going 258 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: to interview him in a couple of weeks. Okay, just 259 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: please make sure that if I have admitted that he 260 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: gets like a second. In the days after Alex died, 261 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: do It was the first person to make me laugh. 262 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: He sent me some memes about Alex's death that were 263 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: unbelievably dark but also exactly Alex's humor. In one, he 264 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: took an old picture of me and Alex. I'm sitting 265 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: on Alex's shoulders as we stand outside the gates of 266 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: Lollapalooza in Chicago, trying to watch Santegal performed from across 267 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 1: the street because we couldn't afford tickets. And he duplicated 268 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 1: it in the duplicate image, do it erased Alex, so 269 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: I'm just floating in the air. Then he put this 270 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: new image side by side with the original above them. 271 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: He wrote the caption ten year Challenge, a phrase that 272 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 1: was making the rounds online at the time, where people 273 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 1: would put an old and current picture side by side 274 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: to show how they had changed over the last decade. 275 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 1: Like I said, dark, when I saw do as meme, 276 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: I laughed, cried and cried from laughing. Do it reminds 277 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 1: me so much of Alex that it can actually be 278 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 1: a little jarring. One time they even got suspended from 279 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 1: the Britney fan forum where they met because the moderators 280 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: thought they were the same person with two accounts. To me, 281 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 1: it was a huge compliment because I'm like, gosh, because 282 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,679 Speaker 1: he's hilarious. So if somebody thinks some Alex, you know, 283 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,719 Speaker 1: I mean, that's I mean, that's the thing you sometimes 284 00:17:57,760 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: the way that you remind me of Alex is almost 285 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: sort of eerie. It's like, you know, you guys just 286 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: obviously had a very special connection. Yeah, it was. It 287 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 1: was really based on being more bit sarcastic and but 288 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 1: overall loving. He was so loving to everyone, and I'm 289 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 1: like the same way. But if you really don't know me, 290 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: you might think of me and sound like this six 291 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 1: ft two hung guy that doesn't really interact well but 292 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:28,120 Speaker 1: not quite. I'm a dancer for guys like Duet got 293 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: his email from Alex early in Croatia time. I think 294 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,439 Speaker 1: I read it in six am in the morning, and 295 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 1: I haven't got any emails from Alex. I think that 296 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 1: last year, and because I was sending him emails and 297 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 1: I thought, oh my god, he finally responded, I was 298 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: just horrified. I don't know, I was really really bad. 299 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 1: Joey very hard once said beautifully, I don't know who 300 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 1: passed away, but she said, it's always said to ban 301 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: comedian dies and um because Alexi was such a high 302 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: energy person. I think he filled every room. He showed 303 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: up and when you lost that person, it's like silence. 304 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:14,360 Speaker 1: You just loved with silence. At the beginning of our friendship, 305 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: Alex showed me his signature loud, high pitched dog bark. 306 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: Almost anyone who's met him has probably heard it. Beth 307 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: remembers him doing it all the time when they met 308 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: as co workers at a bengel shop the same year 309 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: Alex and I met too. We would just be working together, 310 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: he would, you know, either like moan makes a sort 311 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: of corny moan, or like you know, we'd bark at 312 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,920 Speaker 1: each other. Yeah. I found this old video of Alex 313 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: teaching me how to do that bark. Yeah. It sounded 314 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 1: so real. It sounds like there was a dog in 315 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: the bagel shop. Here's him trying to teach me. I 316 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 1: try the bark, but I'm not quite getting it. My 317 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: barks are hesitant and too low, like the way I 318 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: had trained myself to speak. I'm embarrassed, looking down, averting 319 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:08,199 Speaker 1: my eyes as I try. So. Alex steps back in 320 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: to show me how to do it. He encourages me 321 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: and I try again, but I'm still not getting it, 322 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: and I start laughing uncomfortably. The thing about the bark 323 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: is that it's higher than I want to go. It 324 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,880 Speaker 1: feels so counterintuitive, so opposed to what I had told 325 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 1: myself was safe. To do. It's high wild, but Alex 326 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: doesn't chastise or shame me. He simply shows me again 327 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 1: how it's done. Growing closer to Alex felt like an active, 328 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,959 Speaker 1: deep programming of all the bullshit I had internalized years 329 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 1: of shame of what I should or shouldn't do, what 330 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: did or didn't make me worthy of love. But he 331 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: didn't do it by telling me how to be or 332 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: what to do. He just showed the way and let 333 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: me walk by his side. This is friendship at its 334 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: best and most pure. I think when you find someone 335 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,360 Speaker 1: who loves you as you are, who tells you it's 336 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: okay to let down your fronts, someone with whom you 337 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: can both be yourself and become something more than you 338 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 1: were before, who can help you find your voice and 339 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: expand it. But after Alex died, it was like I 340 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: lost part of my voice. I think this is partly 341 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 1: why as I looked over his email again and again, 342 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: I couldn't stop wondering about Alice, about this detail in 343 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: Alex's email that I didn't understand, wondering what exactly he 344 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,679 Speaker 1: was trying to show me here. But am I Like 345 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: some of the commenters on Brittany's Instagram, looking for meaning 346 00:21:55,520 --> 00:22:00,080 Speaker 1: and the smallest thing so far we've heard from re. 347 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: Out of the five people who became my inner circle 348 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: after Alex died, there are two more, and they know 349 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 1: Alex's interiority better than just about anyone. They're also the 350 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: people who, because I began fixating on Alice, actually encouraged 351 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 1: me to try to find her. There's Show She Alex's sister. 352 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,479 Speaker 1: In the weeks after Alex's death, we texted basically all 353 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: day every day to coordinate details about his cremation and memorial, 354 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: but also just you know, to deal. But Show She 355 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,679 Speaker 1: wasn't just texting me. She was working overtime to make 356 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: sure all the people in Alex's life knew what had 357 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 1: happened and to connect us to one another. Her determination 358 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: in those days in the face of immense loss was 359 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 1: unreal to me. I can't imagine getting through those first 360 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: few days without that. I mean, I feel so grateful 361 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:55,200 Speaker 1: that you let me in. I'm so grateful that you 362 00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:00,640 Speaker 1: you were you, you were so available and how full 363 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: and understanding and respectful. Show. She and my paths first 364 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 1: crossed in two thousand nine, when she and Alex were 365 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: living at their mom's place, but she didn't really remember 366 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,159 Speaker 1: that when she found me online after Alex's death. I 367 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 1: mean we hadn't really even spoken before. Well, you said 368 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: that we met a couple of times when I was 369 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,919 Speaker 1: like super stoked. We like passed like ships in the 370 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 1: night in the hallway of your house. Yeah, I mean 371 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 1: my brother and his like friend hanging around exactly. Yeah 372 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: was too cool. You were, for the record, very cool. 373 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:46,959 Speaker 1: A lot has changed Show. She is kind, sharp, and 374 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: unapologetically herself, perhaps more so than anyone else I've ever 375 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: met besides Alex. I aspire to one day be even 376 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: half as much myself as Show she is. She's as 377 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: one of a kind as Alex was. Their childhood wasn't 378 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: always easy. Alex and Show She grew up in tight 379 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: quarters with limited resources, and their big personalities could clash, 380 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,399 Speaker 1: But maybe in part because of that, there was total 381 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: honesty in their relationship. They were never afraid to tell 382 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 1: each other the truth, to fight, and to make up 383 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: whenever the time was right. The last time that I 384 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:26,880 Speaker 1: spoke with my brother was through text messages, and I 385 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 1: got mad at him for not responding to me. I didn't. Yeah, 386 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: I got mad at him. Um, I mean I called 387 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 1: him selfish and rude for not responding to me and 388 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: at least letting me know that he was okay, and 389 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: he blew up at me in his text message back 390 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: to me and then blocked me, and um, that was 391 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 1: the last time that we talked. When he did this, 392 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: she decided to honor the boundary Alex had put up, 393 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: knowing they'd find their way back to one another. You know, 394 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: I wonder if because I was always keeping tabs on him, Um, 395 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: I was always kind of asking where he was, what 396 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: he was doing, like, just check in with me, if 397 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 1: that was partially the reason why he wanted to disk 398 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: totally disconnect from me. And because it's not that I 399 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,439 Speaker 1: forgot about him, I just let him disappear because I 400 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: felt that's what he needed to do. I mean, I 401 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: don't think that the argument that my brother and I 402 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 1: had was enough to really warrant a block, because you 403 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,640 Speaker 1: guys had had arguments before, Like you guys, but oh 404 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 1: my god, he's my brother, because my little brother were 405 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: eighteen months apart, like we fought, they thought, because they 406 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: loved each other so much after everything they'd gone through, 407 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,959 Speaker 1: Alex knew he could share even his darkness, his anger 408 00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: and intemperance with showshe and still be loved because they 409 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: saw and accepted each other for who they really were, 410 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:11,360 Speaker 1: for better and for worse. He was a unique, eccentric original. 411 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 1: He was empathetic, he was gentle, he was kind, he 412 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: was trustworthy, loyal, I'm super fun I think Alex was 413 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:29,640 Speaker 1: probably the most authentic person that anyone has ever come across. 414 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: Definitely me, I can say that for sure. And finally, 415 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: Lexi Alex's best friend. Anyone who knew Alex knew Lexi 416 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: was everything to him. Honestly, I was pretty intimidated before 417 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: we talked for the first time because I knew that 418 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,359 Speaker 1: Alex had such a high opinion of her. Once you 419 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 1: meet her, it's obvious why. She's brilliant, hilarious and unbelievably 420 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 1: talented artist and also so generous. When my dog Tuna, 421 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 1: very suddly and unexpectedly died half a year after Alex did, 422 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,719 Speaker 1: Lexi sent me a hat with Tuna's face on it, 423 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: which she had embroidered by hand. Her creativity reminds me 424 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 1: so much of Alex's. When Lexi showed she and I 425 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: worked together to plan Alex's memorial. Lexi was in charge 426 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,400 Speaker 1: of everything creative. She made a Roman Michelle's high school 427 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: reunion inspired post it board for guests to write tributes, 428 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: a nod to Alex's favorite movie, and it was her 429 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: genius and appropriately dark idea to put Alex's ashes in 430 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,880 Speaker 1: Britney spears fragrance bottles so that each of us could 431 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: have a piece of him. Lexie and Show She had 432 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: already been looking for Alex the day his scheduled emails 433 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: went out after a rental place called show She about 434 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: a car that Alex hadn't returned. Lexi was out shopping 435 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 1: for her job as a costume designer when she got 436 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: a call back from a sheriff in Wyoming, where Alex 437 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: had been living in the final months of his life, 438 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: and learned they were looking for him to Very shortly 439 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:02,680 Speaker 1: after that, I received my email and I was at 440 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 1: a fucking Macy's in the valley and I opened my 441 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: email and I just fucking lose it. I'm like, it 442 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 1: was the worst moment of my life. I still can't 443 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 1: go back to that mall, like truly, and I just 444 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 1: like kept reading it and just it was sobbing, and 445 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:30,400 Speaker 1: just yeah, it was like horrible, totally horrible. One thing 446 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 1: in particular about Lexi's email from Alex stood out to her. 447 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: I think it really resonates with me, the part in 448 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: his note where he um, it's like one of the 449 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 1: first sentence is just saying that he's so sorry, but 450 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: also that he's like really not and that he was 451 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: like sorry that he was doing this to me and 452 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: to all of us, but at the same time he 453 00:28:55,640 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: really wasn't the fact that he could say that Alexei, 454 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: I'm not sorry and know that she would understand as 455 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: a testament to how close they were with her, as 456 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: with Alex there's no bullshit, But like with me, that 457 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: wasn't always the case for Lexi. She and I talked 458 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: a lot about how hanging out with Alex was sort 459 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: of like going down the rabbit hole into wonderland, both 460 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: an escape from the constraints of your reality and something 461 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 1: that changed you. They met at summer camp when she 462 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: was fourteen. He was the rabbit and she was a 463 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: teenager in Nebraska living with strict parents who expected a 464 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: lot from her. His invitation was a simple one. Whatever 465 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: you feel deep down inside, whatever version of yourself that 466 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: you're hiding or suppressing, be that It was like the 467 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: freest I had ever felt in my entire life. Up 468 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: until that point, I had never fully felt myself ever, 469 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: because I always just felt like I didn't fit in 470 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: like anywhere. Everybody was so fucking conventional, and like no 471 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: one did anything ever to like shake it up. And 472 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: then Alex came a lot. He really like shook up 473 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: my whole world. After their magical summer at Camp one 474 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: that changed Lexi forever, it was time to part ways. 475 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 1: They kept in touch online and he'd visit her a lot, 476 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: but that initial parting was hard. It was the last 477 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: day of camp and we had to say goodbye and 478 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: like I didn't know if I was ever going to 479 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: see him again, and like he was like getting on 480 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: the van and I was just like sobbing. I had 481 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: never felt like that strong of an emotion before. It 482 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: was like truly love. He really was my first love 483 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: in a very non sexual way, even though I did 484 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 1: see his dick and bubble more times than I can count, 485 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: same same, even though we only went out for like 486 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: I don't know or something. Yeah, you probably saw more 487 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: after you weren't dating than you did when you were 488 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: way more. Alex helped all of us become more ourselves, 489 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: but we were united in something else too. We each 490 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: struggled to reach him in the final year of his life. 491 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 1: At first, it didn't feel strange. Alex would vanish sometimes 492 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: needing space for himself, and he was also just always 493 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: on the move. I know, I couldn't keep track. There 494 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: was an allusiveness to him, and there was definitely a 495 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: side of him that I just would never see, you know, 496 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: or didn't know about. But part of why we all 497 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 1: stayed friends with him over the years, even as he disappeared, 498 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: is because we understood and we could be the same 499 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: way ourselves too. For many of us, communication with him 500 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: was almost always touch and go, hot and cold on 501 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: both ends. We would then become basic on the phone, 502 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: and then again mounts nothing. Still, as this elusiveness stretched 503 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: on much longer than usual, we all began to worry 504 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: and got scared. But he didn't respond for like ten 505 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 1: months and again. The whole time. You know your life 506 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,959 Speaker 1: is happening. You know, life goes on, but it was 507 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: always like in the back of my head, like where 508 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: the fuck is he? Some of us wondered if we'd 509 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 1: done something to upset him. I really thought if I 510 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: maybe did something. Maybe I don't know what I did. 511 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: I had the same worry. It's probably the main reason why, 512 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: besides my business, I didn't try as hard to track 513 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: him down as I now wish I had. On some level, 514 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 1: I think I was scared I had unknowingly hurt or 515 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: offended him. So, like show She, I decided to respect 516 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: his boundary. And because Team Thor Daniels wasn't a thing 517 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: at the time, none of us realized it was something 518 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: the other people in his life were experiencing too, so 519 00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: we tried to reassure ourselves that this was just Alex 520 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: being Alex. He pretty bluntly said to me, like, I know, 521 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: like I drop off the radar every once in a while, 522 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 1: but I want you to know that, like, it's nothing personal. 523 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: It's kind of just me. I have a lot of 524 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 1: stuff going on and it's never about you. In hindsight, 525 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: it's clear that was true in his last year too. 526 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 1: He wasn't mad at us. He was spending that year 527 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 1: preparing for his final disappearance. Some of the things he did, 528 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: whether it was disappearing from social media from time to 529 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 1: time or disappearing from his friendships from time to time 530 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: were things that he needed to do leading up to 531 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 1: his final disappearance and death for himself, and I think 532 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: he also did it for others too. I think it 533 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 1: was like practice in a way. The Internet kept him 534 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: connected to us over the years as he followed his whims, 535 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: but it also allowed him to keep his relationships separate 536 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 1: enough that none of us really knew one another, and 537 00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: it allowed him to log off and disappear from our 538 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: lives when he sided he was going to end his own. 539 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 1: His elusiveness and the role the Internet played in it 540 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 1: makes me wonder if maybe Alice understood him in a 541 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: way that none of the rest of us did, because 542 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 1: she could be so elusive too, because she, like Alex, 543 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 1: was a digital creature prone to disappearing. Shortly after Alex died, 544 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 1: I told Lexi about the Strange files. At the end 545 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 1: of my email. I made a joke about trying to 546 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: find Alice for a podcast, and it was Lexie who 547 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 1: first said, you really should. Instead of playing along with 548 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: my tossed off comment, Lexi simply told me honestly to 549 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: go for it, and I knew that if she said it, 550 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: she meant it. I think that, like there's a reason 551 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:47,879 Speaker 1: why he left you those files, and like, I don't 552 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,359 Speaker 1: know if I can exactly like pinpoint what it is, 553 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 1: but I mean, it would be fucking cool if we 554 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: could find out. It's definitely the kind of thing that 555 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 1: like with me and my personality that like I just 556 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,239 Speaker 1: can't let go of. And maybe that was part of 557 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:05,240 Speaker 1: it too. Maybe he knew it would like torture you forever, 558 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 1: So maybe he knew that, like you would start a 559 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 1: podcast about it, and was like hoping this would happen. 560 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: After Alex's death, the six of us in the Thor 561 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: Daniels group talked all the time, at first helping each 562 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: other through it and then becoming friends in our own right, 563 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 1: meeting you and Lexi and the Thorde Daniels group do 564 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: a bath, James, you know, and all of Alex's friends. 565 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,840 Speaker 1: I mean, I consider you all my best friends. I 566 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 1: would not have interacted with you guys, how do you 567 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 1: not died? And that's just that's just so crazy to 568 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: think about. Most often we talked in an ongoing Instagram 569 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,880 Speaker 1: d M chat, but we also sometimes got together over 570 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 1: zoom to mark occasions like Alex's birthday or the anniversary 571 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,360 Speaker 1: of his death. But there's one conversation I want to 572 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 1: highlight one that gave me what I needed to pursue 573 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 1: my search for Alice, who, in so many ways was 574 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 1: beginning to feel like she was hovering over my conversations 575 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 1: with them if we were some kind of newly formed 576 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 1: Scooby Doo gang. She was the mystery before us, one 577 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: I couldn't solve on my own, so I brought it 578 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 1: to the group. I'm curious if any of you, like, 579 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 1: did Alex ever talk to any of you about Alice. 580 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 1: He mentioned it to me. I think probably while the 581 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 1: conversations he was having with her were happening, and I, 582 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't dismiss it, but I was skeptical. 583 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: We were on this sense side and there was this 584 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: girl and we would go to Tiny Chedd and she 585 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 1: she Sunday because she would do like signature Britney things, 586 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,359 Speaker 1: so they kind of gave her credibility. And she never 587 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,320 Speaker 1: claimed to be She would say that she wasn't Brittany 588 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: as you said, like there's lot of impersonators and stuff, 589 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,759 Speaker 1: but it did not sound to me like someone doing 590 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,759 Speaker 1: an impersonation, like even Biggs. It was really spot on. 591 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: I'm not thinking it was Brittany, but it really did 592 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: sound like if you ever mentioned it, I would have like, 593 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 1: like I never just like right not believed everything or 594 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,839 Speaker 1: anything that Alex said. But I don't know. I feel 595 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 1: like the like period of time in which he was 596 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 1: chatting or talking to her was like very short. I 597 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: feel like it happened in that moment in time, and 598 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:33,840 Speaker 1: like he talked to me about it like maybe a 599 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 1: couple of times, and I like sort of dismissed it, 600 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,800 Speaker 1: and then we never really talked about it much further 601 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 1: because like, for whatever reason, you're just like Yoka, it's 602 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 1: Britney's weirds, right. But while most of them were skeptical 603 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,319 Speaker 1: about Alice, while Alex was alive, they began to have 604 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: the same inkling of intrigue that I had when I 605 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:57,719 Speaker 1: found the files in my email. At first, it's like 606 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 1: a small seed of an idea. Play sit and soil, 607 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,360 Speaker 1: water it a little, and just let it grow. Admitting 608 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 1: my curiosity to the thor Daniel's crew, a collection of 609 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,840 Speaker 1: people who were all changed by Alex and his free spiritedness, 610 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,320 Speaker 1: was like planning my Alice seed in the richest soil. 611 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:19,359 Speaker 1: As we talked, I could feel my questions multiplying. After 612 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: a while, the thrill of believing in something outlandish was 613 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:28,239 Speaker 1: like reconnecting with Alex's essence. As do I put it, fantasy. 614 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,319 Speaker 1: You know, it's like why not believe? Talking to them 615 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,759 Speaker 1: about Alice was like going back down the rabbit hole. 616 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 1: I could stop overthinking it and just give in in 617 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,200 Speaker 1: the same way I could when Alex was around. None 618 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,759 Speaker 1: of us knew if there was anything to Alice, but 619 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: we all agreed that it would be more fun to 620 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,359 Speaker 1: give in than to try and stop our curiosities from 621 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,319 Speaker 1: taking root. That was just sort of like part of 622 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,200 Speaker 1: the fun of being his friend. As his friend, you 623 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 1: sort of like submit to that fantasy with him, and 624 00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:01,919 Speaker 1: he just sort of go along for the ride. Skepticism 625 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,240 Speaker 1: maybe one of my strengths, but I can also wield 626 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,439 Speaker 1: it against myself like a weapon, one that dampens any 627 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,840 Speaker 1: curiosity that seems too colorful or absurd. One of the 628 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 1: greatest gifts Alex gave me was teaching me how to 629 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:19,280 Speaker 1: stop questioning myself so much, to stop overthinking and hiding 630 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:25,239 Speaker 1: to bark like no one was listening. So I'm going 631 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 1: for it. I'm submitting to the fantasy. If I ever 632 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 1: said her name, Yeah, would. I'm gonna look for Alice 633 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 1: next time. On Unread, people are very passionate over this. 634 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,080 Speaker 1: That was one thing I foiled. There are a lot 635 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:05,280 Speaker 1: of posts or someone just asks who has banana Alice, 636 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: and it's pretty hilarious to see. There are so many 637 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:14,879 Speaker 1: passionate responses saying it's not Brittany, this was from so 638 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 1: long ago. It's just someone pretending who cares Leave it alone.