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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. Welcome Dick, it happened here a podcast

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Speaker 1: about transgender I am your host, Mia Wong. Now, we

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Speaker 1: have spent a lot of time on this show covering

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Speaker 1: a bunch of really bad stuff and also got me

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Speaker 1: some cool stuff. We've had some cool trans things on

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Speaker 1: this show too. We're gonna have some more in like

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Speaker 1: the coming weeks. But it is a bleak time to

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Speaker 1: be trans really anywhere in the world. The United States

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Speaker 1: is also pretty fucking bad right now. But in the

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Speaker 1: words of lengths andhes between the darkness and the dawn,

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Speaker 1: the rises a red star. And one of the things

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Speaker 1: that has happened as this sort of like you know,

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Speaker 1: sort of the crisis of transphobia and the crisis of

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Speaker 1: the genocide and the sort of multiple genocides the government's doing,

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Speaker 1: and as sort of transphobia as like an institutional state

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Speaker 1: discourse has like solidified. Is that, I mean, honestly, multiple

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Speaker 1: generations a trans journalists have really kind of like risen

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Speaker 1: to the forefront. And yeah, we've we've been We've been

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Speaker 1: seeing a bunch of extremely cool reporting and a bunch

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Speaker 1: of very very good work from a bunch of like

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Speaker 1: more radical trans journalists and that's a thing that kind

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Speaker 1: of like there's been so few of us for so

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Speaker 1: long and suddenly.

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Speaker 2: There's several and it rips, and I'm really.

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Speaker 1: Happy about it. And with me to talk about sort

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Speaker 1: of you know, what trans journalism is like in this moment,

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Speaker 1: how it functions and you know, and how how how

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Speaker 1: it can be sustained going forward and why it's sort

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Speaker 1: of important, is David Forbes, who is the editor of

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Speaker 1: the Asheville Blade and also an independent journalist. Mirra Lasine,

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Speaker 1: who is a freelance journalist who recently launched the outlet

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Speaker 1: Free Radical, and medi Cast Again, who's an independent journalist

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Speaker 1: and the creator of Maddy cast News. All of you

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Speaker 1: welcome to the show.

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Speaker 2: Thank you on having me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm ecstatic to have all of you on to

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Speaker 1: get to talk about this because I don't know, I

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Speaker 1: guess the place that I want to start is, like

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Speaker 1: I I remember this kind of like period in like

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, twenty twenty four, it was like, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it still is really bleak for trans journalism in a

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Speaker 1: lot of ways, but like you know, i'man just in

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Speaker 1: transmedia in general. Like I was just watching like the

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Speaker 1: space that had been opened a little bit in like

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Speaker 1: the twenty tens for there to be trans people in media,

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Speaker 1: just like closing, you know, And like I've been watching

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Speaker 1: like pretty immediately around me, Like I've been watching the

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Speaker 1: number of like transferms, especially like non white transferms, just

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Speaker 1: like disappearing from media. And it was, you know, it

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Speaker 1: was it was like watching the stars disappear from the sky.

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Speaker 1: And the thing about the stars disappearing from the sky is,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's you don't notice it unless you're looking

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Speaker 1: at them, in which case light has fucking gone forever.

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Speaker 1: And it was this really really bleak thing. But also

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Speaker 1: you know, as it's happening, and as we've been sort

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Speaker 1: of like resisting this, I've been getting to watch like

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Speaker 1: the stariscope back on in the sky and like watching

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Speaker 1: new like people emerge and watching people who've been doing

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Speaker 1: cool work for a really long time sort of like

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Speaker 1: come out into the open and like get more sort

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Speaker 1: of national recognition. And yeah, I don't know, I guess,

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Speaker 1: So I guess that's the sort of place I wanted

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Speaker 1: to start, is just talking a little bit about like

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Speaker 1: what it's like to be fucking doing journalism right now.

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Speaker 2: Because Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 3: I'll go ahead and start. I've been a journalist for

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Speaker 3: over twenty years. And for those who might be wondering,

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Speaker 3: since you refer to transfems, I am a transwoman. I

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Speaker 3: us she they pronounce. I also like the name David

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Speaker 3: so but I have seen it kind of wax and wane.

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Speaker 3: I've seen it go up and down, and to some degree,

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Speaker 3: what we're facing now it is a much worse and

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Speaker 3: escalating version, but it is also some of what I've

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Speaker 3: seen trans journalists face period. I came out in publicly

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Speaker 3: in twenty sixteen. I started my transition in twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 3: and immediately my freelance career basically died overnight. And it

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Speaker 3: wasn't like I was writing for you know, right wing

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Speaker 3: outlets something, And you know, honestly, the fact is, and

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Speaker 3: this is I think unusual among trans journalism because a

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Speaker 3: lot of it, admirably focuses on international level stuff because

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Speaker 3: what we face is so vast. But if it had

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Speaker 3: not been for the local support, because the Blade, a

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Speaker 3: lot of the Blades subscribers are local that we certainly

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Speaker 3: welcome people to subscribe from wherever they are, you know,

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Speaker 3: I would be homeless. And there's a good chance I

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Speaker 3: wouldn't be talking to you all right now. But at

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Speaker 3: the same time, in this kind of what I kind

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Speaker 3: of call the quiet purge, which I think has been

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Speaker 3: escalating in recent years that you talked about about, you know,

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Speaker 3: just we've got trans journalists who used to write for

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Speaker 3: national magazines leaving out of their cars. Now that is

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Speaker 3: the reality we face our publications, all working class trans people.

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Speaker 3: And you know, we've had journalists arrested twice, yeah, oh

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Speaker 3: my god.

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Speaker 2: For doing their jobs.

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Speaker 3: Two of our journalists were were taken to trial in

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty three on a minor truspassing charge, which is

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Speaker 3: almost unheard of in the US as bad as the

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Speaker 3: USA often is.

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Speaker 1: As you mentioned also, this was like trespassing for fucking

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Speaker 1: reporting on the cops doing an helpless.

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Speaker 2: And campit sleep, like on Christmas, yeah yeah, on Christmas.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Like I just like unhinged police state shit,

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Speaker 1: like yeah yeah.

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Speaker 4: Even in LA you'll like sometimes they'll act like accidentally

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Speaker 4: a arrest journalist, but then they'll be like, Okay, we'll

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Speaker 4: let you go because they're a journalists.

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Speaker 2: They don't actually take you to trial.

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Speaker 3: This is one of those kind of welcome to Ashville

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Speaker 3: moments because I think people by the marketing sometimes and

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Speaker 3: think we're this super progressive city and actually it's an

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Speaker 3: incredibly repressive like tourism Fife, and that's this is kind

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Speaker 3: of really still point though, Like the city government, city

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Speaker 3: council here is six Democrats and one kind of like

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Speaker 3: Bernie Sanders type independent though even more tepid, and the

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Speaker 3: DA is a Democrat. And still you know, they were

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Speaker 3: hell bent to persecute trans journalists. Yeah, one of our

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Speaker 3: one of our journalist until the Bliss was openly mistreated

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Speaker 3: in gendered based on her gender during that So to

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Speaker 3: some degree what's happening now is certainly a worsening, but

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Speaker 3: it is also an extension what's been going on for

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Speaker 3: a very long time. So okay, like it is getting worse,

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Speaker 3: I don't know we're going to be in a two, three,

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Speaker 3: even one year, but also like this is not a

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Speaker 3: new fight.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I can speak to it a little bit too.

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Speaker 4: I'm I've been a journalist for I guess a lot

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Speaker 4: last six months because it's a long story, but I

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Speaker 4: kind of got into it more out of fear for myself.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes people think I'm selfless, and maybe I am a

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Speaker 4: little bit, but a lot of it is really selfish

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Speaker 4: and just feeling like I have to do stuff to

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Speaker 4: protect myself and my friends basically. But even in that

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Speaker 4: short period of time, I have faced a lot of

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Speaker 4: bad stuff from honestly predominantly the left and liberals and

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Speaker 4: sometimes even though they're queer people being a woman of color,

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Speaker 4: and that wasn't really initially what I was afraid of,

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Speaker 4: you know. I was afraid of like I'm going to

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Speaker 4: get death threats and Nazis, something like fandox being Actually

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Speaker 4: none of that's happened. I can't really explain why, other

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Speaker 4: than that I just don't use Twitter, and I guess

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Speaker 4: so they don't know I exist. But I have like

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Speaker 4: one of the first national news story that I broke,

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Speaker 4: or one of them, I guess. So it was about

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Speaker 4: like Metai being like super racist and I like kind

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Speaker 4: of figured that out. I like proved that it was racist. Basically,

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Speaker 4: I just like use my brain to make it tell

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Speaker 4: on itself and explain it's prompt and all that, and

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Speaker 4: it became this huge international news story, but it was

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Speaker 4: like immediately co opted by a Washington Post journalist who

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Speaker 4: retreated me and then recreated the conversation and posted it again,

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Speaker 4: and then I had to go on like this week's

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Speaker 4: long like kind of campaign to try to just get

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Speaker 4: basic credit for that. And eventually she did credit me

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Speaker 4: in the column to give her credit, but that was

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Speaker 4: not something that was forgiven, and a lot of others

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Speaker 4: that I said the thing to you also didn't credit me.

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Speaker 4: And that's just been a recurring trend that, uh yeah,

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Speaker 4: like I'm kind of invisible even though I make a

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Speaker 4: lot of important years, so that kind of sucks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is something that happens fucking constantly. I'm like, my, my, like,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the this this is before I was out too,

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Speaker 1: and this is also like you know, part of part

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Speaker 1: of what's going on here is like one of the

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Speaker 1: things you learned really quickly in media is the extent

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Speaker 1: to which so much national media is just like what

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Speaker 1: they do is steal stories from like people like who

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Speaker 1: are you know from sort of like like more regional

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Speaker 1: media or people that think they can get away with

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Speaker 1: taking stuff from like if. And this goes all the

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Speaker 1: way up the chain, right like if if. If you

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Speaker 1: want to know what's going to be on Rachel Maddow Show,

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Speaker 1: look look at what's happening on behind the bastards whenever

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Speaker 1: they cover someone on the right, and within about three

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Speaker 1: weeks you will get a Rachel Mattour episode that is

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Speaker 1: five minutes a thing. But like you know, but like

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Speaker 1: you know, it's obviously like it'ignificantly worse with like trans people,

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Speaker 1: because like, yeah, they can just fucking stell stories like

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Speaker 1: I remember, God my, like my fucking like the first

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Speaker 1: like journalism well that's not true, but the first journalism

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Speaker 1: e stuff that I did with like po zone people

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Speaker 1: was like we were dreaming like the Atlanta Spas shooting.

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Speaker 1: We tracked down there there's like that there was a

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Speaker 1: Facebook post that people were circulating reportedly from the shooter

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Speaker 1: that was like basically blaming like anti China media stuff

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Speaker 1: for it. And we tracked down that this person did

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Speaker 1: not have a Facebook and that all of this was fake,

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Speaker 1: but that that post had been circling into the national

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Speaker 1: news and we were like, well, yeah, this is like fake, right,

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Speaker 1: And then like every single news like every single like

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Speaker 1: CNN fucking Fox News, like every single major news outlet

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Speaker 1: just like took all of our work and like repackaged

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Speaker 1: it and then never fucking mentioned that it was like

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Speaker 1: Garre and I who did this, because you know, why

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Speaker 1: would you credit the transgender anarchists when you could simply

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Speaker 1: repackage the story yourself. And this is a problem that's

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Speaker 1: like goes all the way up to like this is

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Speaker 1: part of the reason we're here right now, right Like

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Speaker 1: we're complaining about this on sort of like professional level

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Speaker 1: because like it's annoying, but also like the reason we're

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Speaker 1: fucking here right now is because the person who got

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Speaker 1: to write about trans stuff was fucking Jestison Gull, who

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Speaker 1: is a sis man whose only qualification it was the

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Speaker 1: thing he previously wrote about was men who fuck other

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Speaker 1: men who don't consider themselves gay. And because he was

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Speaker 1: the person who got to write all of the like

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Speaker 1: trans coverage, though he's just like some fucking cis dipshit right,

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Speaker 1: Like he's now the guy who's like been being cited

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Speaker 1: in fucking legal cases for ages and ages for why

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Speaker 1: you should restrict trans healthcare.

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Speaker 4: The Atlantic and its consequences on society.

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Speaker 1: Asters Yeah, me, or do you want to talk a

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Speaker 1: bit about your experience with it?

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Speaker 2: Honestly, what you just described has been happening to me

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Speaker 2: this week. So I've been in the industry for about

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Speaker 2: three to four years now consistently inconsistently for a little

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Speaker 2: bit longer. And initially it was way easier for me

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Speaker 2: to get eggs, Like within the first few months of

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Speaker 2: me seriously starting, I got up to pitches into Discover

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Speaker 2: magazine and places like that, and then like but in

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Speaker 2: like six months after that, it became a nightmare to

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Speaker 2: get pitches accepted. Yeah, and it just so happened I

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Speaker 2: became more out as trans I'm not time frame definitely

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Speaker 2: not a coincidence at all. But more recently, this week

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Speaker 2: I launched my independent newsletter, The Free Radical.

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Speaker 1: Go subscribe, You go subscribe. It's it's legitimately great. You

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Speaker 1: will get reporting there that you won't fucking get well, okay,

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Speaker 1: you will get recording there that you won't get from

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Speaker 1: anyone else until about three weeks later, when all the

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Speaker 1: national out let's pick it up and it will be

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Speaker 1: better and you will have it first to the person

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Speaker 1: who actually reported it.

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Speaker 2: In every articuar I've written so far, I've taken a

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Speaker 2: second to basically be like, Okay, here's some anarchists shit

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Speaker 2: you should read. Y'all. Audiences mostly like libs and I'm

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Speaker 2: just like here here read this please. But my first

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Speaker 2: story broke this week was about a trans woman who

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Speaker 2: was legally held in Guantanamo Bay, and that story got

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Speaker 2: picked up by a bigger media outlets pretty quick. But

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Speaker 2: in the first like twelve hours, the news uplet then

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Speaker 2: did a very good story that basically cited me every

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Speaker 2: chance they got. Come to find out, this is because

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Speaker 2: a trans woman wrote that she's awesome. I just followed

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Speaker 2: her the other day. But then bazillion it was out

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Speaker 2: started picking up on this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this was a Brazilian trans woman who got like

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Speaker 1: sent to Guantanamo.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And the first one to do this was the

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Speaker 2: newspaper forgive me if I am mispronouncing this full Hall

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Speaker 2: dais self Polo. I believe it's called I might be

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Speaker 2: mispronouncing that. I apologize I am, But they are one

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Speaker 2: of the biggest newspapers in Brazil and definitely one of

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Speaker 2: the oldest, and that story was all right, you know,

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Speaker 2: they credited me sure breaking the story. I was talking

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Speaker 2: to the person who wrote that she's sweet and you

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Speaker 2: did original recording it's awesome. And then right after that,

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Speaker 2: like dozens of other outlets came in. None of them

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Speaker 2: credited me, and they posted like social media stuff about

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Speaker 2: the story. Not a single one of those credited me,

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Speaker 2: and they're getting like thousands of lights and comments and shares,

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Speaker 2: and most egregious I think is I've seen a few

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Speaker 2: of them credit the journalist with Fulha as breaking the story,

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Speaker 2: and have you seen one sank them as breaking the story?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, whose article?

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Speaker 2: Mind you? Literally in a subheading says I broke the

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Speaker 2: story and I didn't check in on it today yet,

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Speaker 2: but last night I was like up late just looking

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Speaker 2: at all the news outlets that was boosting, and it's like,

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Speaker 2: I'm why the stories getting coverage. Don't get me wrong,

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Speaker 2: it's an important one. It's just like yeah, no, it's great. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Almost none of them are seeing where they got the

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Speaker 2: story from. It's just like, oh wow, there's this bigger

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Speaker 2: outlet cover. I'm gonna credit the bigger outlift.

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Speaker 1: So to to explain why, we're also sort of concerned

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Speaker 1: about like the way this attribution stuff works, right, this

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Speaker 1: is an incredibly material problem for us, right, and like

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Speaker 1: I am very lucky in that, like in terms of

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Speaker 1: trans journalism, I have like a stable job. But the

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Speaker 1: thing is right unless unless you fucking got really lucky

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Speaker 1: and you got hired like as assis person, and then

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Speaker 1: you have a bunch of very very supportive like coworkers,

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Speaker 1: and like your bosses are supportive. You are like trying

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Speaker 1: to cobble together like every scent that you can possibly

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Speaker 1: pull out of a fucking couch cushion, because like you know,

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Speaker 1: I've said this other show before, right, like, if you're

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Speaker 1: a transperson in the US, even when even before all

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Speaker 1: the turf tariffs hit, right like you you were living

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Speaker 1: in the night in like nineteen thirty six, great depression

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Speaker 1: levels of unemployment, and you know, so so that means that,

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Speaker 1: like it actually matters a lot when when other outlets

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Speaker 1: do your studies and don't attribute it to you, because

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Speaker 1: like you have to find a way to fucking make money,

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Speaker 1: and like almost all trans journalists are like the most

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Speaker 1: hideously broke people you've ever heard of in your entire

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Speaker 1: fucking life. Like and this is also you know, and

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Speaker 1: this this is also part of the way that like

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Speaker 1: class plays out in the transmitting you see, is like,

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Speaker 1: you know, the people with the biggest platforms tend to

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Speaker 1: be trans people who were already doing okay, because those

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Speaker 1: are the only people who can afford to fucking do this,

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Speaker 1: and like that's why most of you have heard of me,

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Speaker 1: and most of you probably have not heard of David

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Speaker 1: and Mirror, even though David and Mirror do like quite

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Speaker 1: frankly more important journalism than I do, and like and

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Speaker 1: in terms of especially in terms of like like and

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Speaker 1: like break a lot way more fucking stories than I do,

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Speaker 1: because it's not kind of like not exactly like my thing, right,

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Speaker 1: But that's because I was, like, you know, like I

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Speaker 1: was already sort of like in a place that was

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Speaker 1: financially secure, and everyone else is so unbelievable fucking broke

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Speaker 1: all the time, and it matters when fucking stories get

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Speaker 1: stolen because the only way that if you're a trans

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Speaker 1: journalist and you're you know, you're working at your own outlet,

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Speaker 1: because outlet won't fucking hire you because that's just the

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Speaker 1: way that the fucking media is structured. The only way

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Speaker 1: for you to get paid is by like people seeing

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Speaker 1: your stories. And that's part of why there's like just

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Speaker 1: not that many trans journalists because like the level of

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Speaker 1: discrimination on top of the kind of like erasire of

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Speaker 1: independent journalist, it already happens makes it just like financially

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Speaker 1: impossible to fucking do it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's not just liberal media. It's not just

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Speaker 4: like the ciss had liberal media too sometimes, Like I

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Speaker 4: had a similar thing with when I broke the story

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Speaker 4: of Rain and some other sexual abuse nonprofits submitting all

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Speaker 4: of the trans people from their websites. That became a

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Speaker 4: national news story, and the Washington pillst kicked it up also,

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Speaker 4: and I think part of that was because I complained

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Speaker 4: so much about the previous time where they almost didn't

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Speaker 4: cite me, that maybe they were a little bit more

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Speaker 4: cautious about me, is my theory. But anyway, after that

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Speaker 4: initial news story that cited me, same thing happened where

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Speaker 4: it's like everyone's like, oh, well, we can just cite

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Speaker 4: the Washington Post now, and so this person no one knows.

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Speaker 4: The first website to do that was like a queer

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Speaker 4: news outlet, and then I just kept watching as like

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Speaker 4: I think it was like three or four different queer

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Speaker 4: or like feminist women focused news outlets did the same

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Speaker 4: thing of not citing me, And there was even like

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Speaker 4: a really long piece from this other like that was

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Speaker 4: it felt like it was going out of its way

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Speaker 4: not to cite me, because it was talking about this

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Speaker 4: entire issue about nonprofits censoring people, and that was an

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Speaker 4: entire conversation that was started specifically because of the news

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Speaker 4: article I wrote, but it specifically did not cite me,

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Speaker 4: even though they mentioned how one of the organizations that

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Speaker 4: I reported on had reversed course, which is something that

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Speaker 4: they emailed me and said it was because of me.

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Speaker 4: So that's how well, that's how deep this does. They

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Speaker 4: will like go out of their way to like carve

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Speaker 4: you out of a story that exists because of you,

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Speaker 4: even if they are ostensibly, you know, not just a

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Speaker 4: liberal like a New York Times outlet, but like a

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Speaker 4: left wing like progressive facing outlet that's trying to like

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Speaker 4: reket it stuff like that. They they just want to

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Speaker 4: exclude trans women from their own stories, even it's kind

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Speaker 4: of crazy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the extent of it is actually telling of the

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Speaker 3: local level too. Here the blade Diddle number of reporting,

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Speaker 3: and we also featured some like really well thought out

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Speaker 3: in pretty sharp opinion columns, which is one thing we

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Speaker 3: kind of specializing. So I think you're really good for

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Speaker 3: like raising issues in the local level about how awful

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Speaker 3: the Tours and Development Authority is which is this hotel

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Speaker 3: or cartail that takes every dime of all the local

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Speaker 3: hotel tax, every bit of it, and then uses it

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Speaker 3: to market the place to more rich people and push

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Speaker 3: crackdowns on pretty much everyone else. So we pushed this.

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Speaker 3: It became a widespread public demand. A lot of organizing

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Speaker 3: happened around it, and there was zip zilch zero mentioned

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Speaker 3: that like spurred by investigations and editorials in the Asheville Blade.

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Speaker 3: Even one of the people who wrote that editorial, who

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Speaker 3: was a local resident activist who dealt with some tourism stuff,

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Speaker 3: was literally being quoted the fact she'd written a piece

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Speaker 3: for the Blade and that you know, was just not mentioned.

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Speaker 3: And it actually became kind of a running kind of

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Speaker 3: grim joke because we're all working class trans people and

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Speaker 3: you know, half of us are transferm is just the

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Speaker 3: Asheville Blade does not exist. And some of that was

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Speaker 3: for liberals, but honestly, Asheville has a massive trans misogyny problem,

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Speaker 3: which think we were the first meet outs to do

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Speaker 3: like a quick guide to trans misogyny, which we did

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Speaker 3: kind of like a slide show about it in our

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Speaker 3: Patreon and stuff, because it was that extensive. But even

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Speaker 3: the left in Ashville has some real problems with trans misogyny.

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Speaker 3: So and it's applied everything got just from trans issues,

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Speaker 3: but even to bread and butter kind of local stuff,

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Speaker 3: which we also do a lot of reporting on. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's we can't admit that trans leftists and anarchists are

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Speaker 3: shaping the discussion in any way, shape or form.

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Speaker 1: It's funny because like like even us, like even like

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Speaker 1: the podcast it could happen here, which is like a

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Speaker 1: pretty big national thing, Like there's no one else talks

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Speaker 1: about us. It's fucking amazing. You could just like see

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Speaker 1: you can like literally watch like every other podcast that's

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Speaker 1: like a tenth of our size there's like media coverage

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Speaker 1: of and there's nothing, and they will never admit that

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Speaker 1: we fucking did anything.

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Speaker 2: It's awesome. It's so cool.

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Speaker 1: And I think there's like a conversions of actoracy too,

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Speaker 1: because like you know, on the one hand, like in

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Speaker 1: terms of sort of the way that hyper visibility works, right,

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Speaker 1: hyper visibility for transferms only works negatively, like there's only

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Speaker 1: the kind of like you get fucked by it. But

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Speaker 1: then also on top of it, you get the reverse

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Speaker 1: version of it, where it's like, yeah, you know, your

407
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Speaker 1: labor was stolen all and this is you know, this

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Speaker 1: is true both in movements. This is true of the

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Speaker 1: way the sort of capitalist media functions. And then on

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Speaker 1: top of that, we have the kind of like trifecta

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Speaker 1: of like we will never mention that you exist, which

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Speaker 1: is trans independent and radical at the same time, and

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Speaker 1: like this is the thing happens like every fucking trans

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Speaker 1: fan like journalist like friend of the show Maya Arson

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Speaker 1: crime w has had this happen to it like a

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Speaker 1: billion fucking times. I want to talk a bit more

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Speaker 1: about kind of just like the financials of how this

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Speaker 1: plays out and how independent media is sort of being

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Speaker 1: supported in this era because you know, like it's also

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Speaker 1: really true that like even even the like nominally trans outlets,

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Speaker 1: like a lot of it functions a labor exploitation. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's let's talk a bit about that.

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Speaker 2: Like we have a lot of strong cakes.

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Speaker 1: Seen some shit.

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Speaker 2: Oh boy, I have so many opinions, So I mentioned

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Speaker 2: I kind of more formally got to start three to

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Speaker 2: four years ago. My first article was published in twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 2: and it was just like a local thing when I

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Speaker 2: was living in Scranton, Pennsylvania area where bathing happens, but

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Speaker 2: I found something to report on. The reason I got

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Speaker 2: started that would have been like early twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 2: Reason I got started then because I was homeless and

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Speaker 2: I needed a way to make money, and where I

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Speaker 2: was living at the time it was a complete job desert.

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Speaker 2: I didn't have a car and there was nothing in

436
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,439
Speaker 2: walking distance to me. The only things that were like

437
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,880
Speaker 2: minimum wage food service jobs that over half an hour

438
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 2: walk and my long disabled. My body is in pain

439
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:51,200
Speaker 2: if I stand up too long. So those jobs did

440
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 2: not last long because I physically couldn't. And so I

441
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:59,360
Speaker 2: tried to find something that I could do remotely, more consistently,

442
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 2: and I went all in into freelance writing and journalism.

443
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,679
Speaker 1: Real really the money making career.

444
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm totally I'm just in this for the money,

445
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 2: you know. I made such amazing profits that year, which

446
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 2: is why I ended up homeless again and by the

447
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 2: end of the year I was living in a motel.

448
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:20,640
Speaker 1: God.

449
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 4: Yeah.

450
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 2: And a lot of the writing I was doing at

451
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 2: that time was very generalist and I hadn't really found

452
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,919
Speaker 2: much of my niche yet. But as I began to

453
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 2: zero it more on trains issues over time and just

454
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 2: politics and stuff like that, because as an aside, I

455
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 2: also tried to break into gaming journalism because I unfortunately

456
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:47,199
Speaker 2: am a gamer regredibly such cases, many such cases, and

457
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 2: that industry is just dead. It was dying at that

458
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:51,959
Speaker 2: point and now it's just like, if you want to

459
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 2: get a job as a gaming journalist, you're not gonna

460
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 2: I tried. We need more people to do it, but

461
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 2: it does not pay. So I'm going into vix journalism,

462
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:06,400
Speaker 2: which pays like marginally better, and by marginally better, let

463
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 2: me talk about some of my rates. Oh god, yea

464
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 2: one outlet I've written for pretty consistently go for a while.

465
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 2: To start, it paid me about one hundred bucks an

466
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 2: article flatter rate, and this includes for highly research in

467
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 2: deft reporting articles.

468
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: My god, yeah, this is again like shit that's going

469
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 1: to be stolen by a national outlet in.

470
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 2: Two days, like like and find you. A lot of

471
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 2: these stories took weeks to make and fell for a

472
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 2: hundred bucks, and so I eventually got quote upgraded to

473
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 2: that outlet to doing seventy five a piece, but four

474
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 2: pieces in a month, and so that was great. You

475
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 2: know that two hundred dollars a month for each individually

476
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 2: reported piece that really paid the bills, and eventually it

477
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 2: changed into one fifty a piece for endef reporting pieces

478
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 2: that often took over a month's worth of work to

479
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 2: get going, and I had to meet my deadline or

480
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 2: as they would get really angry at me and and

481
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,919
Speaker 2: they would be really dickish. And that was one of

482
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 2: my better experiences, certainly not the best. I've had plenty

483
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 2: of people who were wonderful, who I've written for, and

484
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 2: I've had great times with. But the through line of

485
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 2: all of it, even the places that pay better, they're

486
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 2: for one off stories. They're for things that do not

487
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 2: giving key a source of and com long term. Even

488
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 2: the places that have paid me the best for individual stories,

489
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 2: it's not enough. Not the least of which because you know,

490
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 2: the cost of living is borrible right now, Terris, they're

491
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 2: going show up and oh god, where what the fuck

492
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 2: is happening? But also because none of it's consistent. The

493
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 2: closest to consistent I had was overworking myself by writing

494
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,880
Speaker 2: like upwards of like ten articles a week, sometimes upwards

495
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 2: of like five to seven in one day and all

496
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 2: of them being reported and in that and it's not

497
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 2: sustainable doing that, No no, but that's just common. That

498
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 2: is just normal.

499
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's and it's like the sort

500
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: of bleak thing about it is your your options are

501
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 1: you have money already, you won the fucking lottery basically,

502
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: and like you got a stable position, you work at

503
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: a rate that is like genuinely hideous, or you have

504
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 1: a second job, and sometimes it's a lot of these

505
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: things combined.

506
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:42,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

507
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's a tendency to talk about discrimination

508
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 1: as something that's sort of like abstract or something that's

509
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: even just kind of like point of hiring stuff, which

510
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: is all true, and like you know, it is like yeah,

511
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: like part of the problem with this is that it's

512
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 1: impossible to get like fucking staff positions and like and

513
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 1: like I could say this is like like so I

514
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: mean I got hired like as a SIS person, right

515
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: and like and like they would have hired me if

516
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 1: I was trans But like that's also just true for

517
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: a lot of people, which is that like that's like

518
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: the way that you can do it. So like there

519
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 1: is the like front toward discrimination. But then also the

520
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: second aspect of it is that like the way that

521
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: all of this stuff plays out structurally in the economy

522
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 1: is that you get reduced to sort of contract labor

523
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 1: unless you try to go and go it by yourself.

524
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,360
Speaker 1: And because of the incredible just my material financial oppression

525
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 1: of trans people, this is another big part of the

526
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: reason why there's just so few, you know, and like

527
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 1: there's there's becoming more, right, and I'm incredibly happy that,

528
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 1: like you know, like.

529
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 2: I'm fucking talking with three trans journalists. This rules.

530
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: And also the reason is not more of us, which

531
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: is important because like sis people trying to cover our

532
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 1: stories is a fucking disaster, like that's how we got here.

533
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 1: But like part of the reason why there's not more

534
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 1: is just that, like it's so difficult to survive doing

535
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 1: this and y you know, and that's also I'm gonna'm

536
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: gonna sur this into a minor plug, which is like,

537
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: go subscribe to the Asheville Blade, Go subscribe to Free Radical,

538
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 1: Go subscribe to Manicast News, because like literally the difference

539
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: between like people being able to have an apartment and

540
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: pay their rent or like living in a car is

541
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 1: the amount of support that you get from this stuff.

542
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 3: That's absolutely true. Yeah, and I should note the you know,

543
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 3: the Blade's a co op. We've been one for half

544
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 3: a decade now, and part of the reason for that

545
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:34,199
Speaker 3: was we'd seen how unfairly like income was treated, just

546
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 3: in the press in general. And also I'm an anarchist,

547
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 3: and while I love being an editor, I don't want

548
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 3: to be a boss. I want to like work with

549
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 3: other people. And it's made us a lot more effective.

550
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 3: I would say we wouldn't exist if we hadn't become

551
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 3: a co op. But also when we do hit a

552
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 3: difficult financial spot and we operate in a shoestring budget,

553
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 3: especially post Helene as sadly a lot of folks have

554
00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 3: been driven out of Ashville by the refusal of farious

555
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 3: governments to do anything about rental aid, by the resumption

556
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 3: of like very quick resumption of fvictions, and a lot

557
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 3: of other horrible stuff, Like it's a struggle. We all

558
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 3: are working class folks. We all work of their jobs

559
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 3: and face trans the discrimination, trans misology, and transphobia. So

560
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 3: it's it's difficult. And even with being a co op,

561
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 3: we do the best we can, and we do, unlike

562
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 3: other places, pay freelancers fair rate. But sometimes it's legitimately

563
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 3: difficult to divide up our tiny budget, and at some

564
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 3: points we say, look, we can't cover this right now,

565
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 3: or we have to say okay, yea in some cases

566
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 3: I've done it before. Certainly I'm covering this, but I

567
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 3: am going to literally have to split up payment forward

568
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 3: over multiple months because we just don't have the money

569
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 3: in there. But I feel it does need, it does

570
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 3: need to get out there, and even if those decisions

571
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 3: are made more fairly, it is still a real problem

572
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 3: that we are dividing up us fairly small pool of resources.

573
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 2: We do a lot with that, but it is a

574
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 2: real limitation. Mm hmm.

575
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 4: Yeah. And I'm kind of in a similar boat in

576
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 4: terms of my publication Maddie cast News. So I'm in

577
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 4: one of the categories you mentioned. Actually I'm in two

578
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 4: of them. Where I found what I'm doing not from

579
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 4: my work, but from my first job, my main job.

580
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 4: I guess which I got. I guess pretending to be

581
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 4: assis or maybe you know, non binary BESAM or whatever

582
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 4: and then kind of jump scare them. But anyway, that

583
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 4: job pays pretty well, thankfully, you know, software engineering one

584
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 4: of the of the lottery professions for trans women. You

585
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 4: get your healthcare, you got your money. But I've been

586
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 4: trying to go beyond just me and try to help

587
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,239
Speaker 4: other people as well. So recently we just applied for

588
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 4: fiscal sponsorship with five to one C three, which hopefully

589
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 4: hopefully let us become a charity tax deductible and all that.

590
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 4: And I've also been putting a bit of my own money,

591
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 4: and I've also been you know, pretty much begging all

592
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 4: my readers to give us money because one of the

593
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 4: biggest goals of my publication has it kind of started

594
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 4: off more about like, you know, reporting on the news,

595
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 4: of course, but now it's reporting on the news and

596
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 4: also you know, making sure the people who report on

597
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 4: the news aren't holmost actually, maybe that's a bad thing.

598
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 4: Everyone I know in my life knows people like all

599
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,959
Speaker 4: these journalists who report on this news, but a lot

600
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 4: of them probably don't even know how much like they suck.

601
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 4: They struggle, just like getting through their daily lives. So

602
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 4: I'm really trying to hopefully create some structure for us

603
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 4: to have at least one nonprofit that will fund trans

604
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 4: journalists at like a living wage of at least you know,

605
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 4: twenty five dollars an hour, which I honestly don't think

606
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 4: is a lot, especially like in a place like La

607
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 4: but twenty five dollars an hour is probably more than

608
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 4: you can get almost anywhere as a trans journalist. Also,

609
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 4: I've heard a lot of jokes about, you know, we're

610
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 4: passing around the same point dollars in the trans community,

611
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 4: and it's a little bit more of that. But I'm

612
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 4: also hoping to see if I can try to fundraise

613
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 4: from other people and try to you know, raise awareness

614
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 4: for this issue because I don't have a lot of

615
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 4: time myself to be writing articles these days, because I

616
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 4: do have a full ten job. But yeah, hoping to

617
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 4: kind of make a dent on this issue and raise awareness.

618
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 4: And it's really a win ran for all trans people

619
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 4: that you know, if we're paying people who need this

620
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 4: money to survive, but they're also creating really important news

621
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 4: coverage that literally is like life changing for hundreds of

622
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 4: thousands of millions of people at many times. And that's

623
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 4: how I see it's an exceptionally important issue that is

624
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 4: completely unaddressed.

625
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: This is also part of the issue with the way

626
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: that like trends issues are reported on by the media

627
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 1: is that they're they're largely you know, and it's not

628
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 1: things like healthcare aren't important, right, but like just the

629
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: raw class dynamic of all of this just does not

630
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: get talked about, right, the homelessness rates that don't. I don't,

631
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: actually fuck I should have the homelessness race off top

632
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: of my head. Things like three or four times of

633
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: the very least more likely across the entire transpopulation to

634
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: be homeless than people. And like you can just fucking

635
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: see that if you know trans people. It's like, yeah,

636
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: fucking everyone's spent a bunch of time being homeless, and like,

637
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: you know, that's just the conditions of this. And you

638
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: know this is the thing that like, as you the listener,

639
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: like it is possible for this. It doesn't have to

640
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: fucking be like this. Yeah, like it doesn't. You have

641
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 1: the power in your hands, like to keep people off

642
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: the street and like with a roof above their head,

643
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: and you could do this by clicking The links in.

644
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 2: The description.

645
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 3: Are from our co op. Thank you for repeatedly mentioning

646
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 3: that aspect. I think also this does this class nymic

647
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 3: does shape the type of trans coverage you see two

648
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 3: quite a bit. We did sur importing one time on

649
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 3: the city of Ashville spending over a million dollars to

650
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 3: the Salvation Army, which is basically a queer and transphobic cult.

651
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 3: But that piece is reported very differently from if it

652
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 3: had been reported by, say a trans journalist who'd been

653
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 3: very well off their entire lives, you know, because a

654
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 3: lot of us people in our co op have either

655
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 3: been close to or been homeless before, and so we

656
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 3: were able to bring in the experience of knowing that

657
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 3: if you are a trans homeless person, the Salvation Army

658
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 3: isn't letting you in or is one of the worst

659
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,760
Speaker 3: possible shelters you can end up in. And that piece

660
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 3: was written and read very differently because we were drawing

661
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 3: from that, from that on the ground experience.

662
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, on that note, I've I've written so many stories

663
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:39,800
Speaker 2: that have been about just the poverty rates of trans

664
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 2: people and what we've all gone through. I used to

665
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 2: be a daily contributor for LGBTQ Nation. They were one

666
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 2: of the outlooks that I was trying to crank out

667
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 2: as many articles as they could for and the editors

668
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 2: lovely people. There no issues with them, lovely folks. They

669
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 2: just they don't They didn't have enough money to begin

670
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 2: with to pay me enough, so you're goin to do.

671
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 2: But I remember working on a story sometime like the

672
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 2: summer of last year for them where I was I

673
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 2: was writing about some new report that came out talking

674
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 2: about just like poverty rates, job discrimination rates of trans people.

675
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 2: And one thing I've noticed is, like David mentioned, there

676
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 2: is a huge disconnect between even if you have like

677
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 2: wealthier trans people write about an issue versus those who

678
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 2: are in poverty. Like a lot of the sources I

679
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 2: had for a specific article, I don't remember the headline

680
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 2: because I wrote like five hundred or goalster q Nation

681
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 2: last year, but a lot of the sources I used

682
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 2: for that article, and like other ones like it, are

683
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 2: like big nonprofits, And you know, obviously your mileage maybe

684
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 2: very depending on which nonprofit. But most of the folks

685
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 2: who like were writing these reports or who were doing

686
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 2: the press releases and stuff like that, you could just

687
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 2: kind of tell that they maybe did not have quite

688
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 2: the same experiences as say, trans people who have been homeless,

689
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:12,280
Speaker 2: trans people who have had to deprive themselves of medical

690
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 2: care because they couldn't afford it, trans people who have

691
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 2: had to go without food because not enough money. And

692
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 2: it's almost like a lot of people who didn't have

693
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 2: to go through this stuff, like intellectualize it more. They

694
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 2: see it as like these abstract numbers and they know

695
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 2: it's bad, but they don't have that like individual connection.

696
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 2: Like even many of the nonprofit folks, a lot of

697
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 2: their friends, even their social circles are all going to

698
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:42,879
Speaker 2: be on average, you know, I can't say for every

699
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 2: single person, obviously, like on average more wealthy, more stable,

700
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 2: they have family to back them up, they have plenty

701
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 2: of options, and I don't know, rambling a bit, but

702
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 2: there's just a disconnect, you know, whenever reaching out to

703
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 2: folks who won the birth law a little bit.

704
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

705
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 4: One of the most the most expensive article that we

706
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 4: did Maddy cast News earlier last month was about Maryland

707
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 4: prisons and how they're basically torture chambers for trans women,

708
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,280
Speaker 4: as most prisons are, but it seems like they're especially

709
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,839
Speaker 4: bad in Maryland, you know, despite it being supposedly a

710
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 4: safe trans today you know, seventy percent Democrats. And that

711
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:32,320
Speaker 4: was a kind of an example of just like how unprofitable,

712
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 4: how possible to not just unprofitable, because when you think unprofitable,

713
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 4: it's like, oh, you're not making money. It's not about that.

714
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 4: It's like if you're losing, like eighty percent of the

715
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 4: money you put into these articles because it takes so

716
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 4: many Like I'm a very strong believer of paying people,

717
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 4: you know, a living wage. So I was paying the

718
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 4: journalists like well over twenty five dollars an hour for

719
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:56,320
Speaker 4: you know, dozens of hours of work, and that adds

720
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 4: up really fast. And then court feet, like pacer fees,

721
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 4: all these other costs are adding up and it ends

722
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,760
Speaker 4: up being like around the thousand dollars for the single article.

723
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 4: And it's a really important article that you know, raise

724
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 4: a lot of awareness. Everyone in Maryland, in the trans circle,

725
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 4: they're talking about it. But at the same time, it's

726
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 4: basically a charity product, right, This is why I'm trying

727
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 4: to become a nonprofit because there's simply no other way

728
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 4: to be able to fund this stuff. There's no capitalist

729
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 4: model for reporting on trans women in prison. It's not

730
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 4: something that people are you know, like I definitely get

731
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 4: there's a lot of people who support us out of

732
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 4: the goodness of their hearts, and that's really nice, but

733
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 4: even that is not enough, because that's just how it is.

734
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 4: There's just not enough people who care about these issues. Sadly,

735
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 4: especially the more intersectional it is. You know, even a

736
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 4: lot of people in the queer community aren't as wory

737
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 4: necessarily about people in prison. They're more a worried about

738
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 4: people not in prisons. And you know, of course everyone matters,

739
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 4: but I think it's really important to focus on those

740
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,879
Speaker 4: most intersectional issues because when you really think about it,

741
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 4: like prisons are basically, you know, where they do every

742
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,280
Speaker 4: thing they want to do to transom and aren't in prison.

743
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 4: That's where they get to do all of it, and

744
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 4: no one's looking on, no one's watching them, no one's

745
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 4: holding them accountable. But yeah, I think it's basically a

746
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 4: complete failing of capitalism, Like it's there's definitely be some

747
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 4: outlets that, you know, maybe they could be doing better,

748
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 4: but at the same time, a lot of the time

749
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,359
Speaker 4: that's basically, you know, be really shitty. The people are

750
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 4: closed down and neither of those are great options. And

751
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 4: personally I would close down, but I can't tell other

752
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,359
Speaker 4: people what to do. And I think really it's a

753
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 4: systemic issue that society doesn't care about us, that the cists,

754
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 4: people who really should be funding these things and trying

755
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 4: to solve these issues, just pretend like we don't exist,

756
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:39,720
Speaker 4: and you know, go out of their way to even

757
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 4: erase our presence even when we do, you know, create

758
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 4: national needs.

759
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 1: You know, I think part of the difficulty of it, right,

760
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: and this is specifically the way the trends that she's

761
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 1: foctioned around class journalism are a microcosm. It's like the

762
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 1: most intense version of the stuff that's happening to the

763
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 1: entire journalism industry, right, or like, you know, part of

764
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 1: what we're seeing is like is just that it's been

765
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 1: the destruction of local news, right, And the product of

766
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 1: this is that the only people who can be journalists

767
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 1: are like a bunch of fucking rich dipshits and you know, like, yeah,

768
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 1: you've all fucking read like New York Times columnist is

769
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 1: like the platforming a genocide denier today, right, like that,

770
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 1: and that's that's sort of the product of this. And

771
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: it means that like unless like literally like people like you,

772
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: the fucking listener, And I guess this doesn't apply to

773
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,720
Speaker 1: you if you're you know, like statistically a good number

774
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 1: of you are like you are also transgender, and you

775
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 1: make like fucking nine dollars an hour like running a

776
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 1: forklift or something like. This is not this is not

777
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 1: on you, like, I know much of you are gonna

778
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 1: be like, holy shit, actually give money these people. It's

779
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 1: like okay, but like this stuff is only possible if

780
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 1: people are actually fucking willing to support it, like until

781
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 1: we can like fundamentally change the way that the entire

782
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: political and economic system works in this country and in

783
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: this world. And until then, it's like yeah, like it's

784
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: this is a fucking problem for like us here too,

785
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 1: because you know, like again, like I got fucking lucky,

786
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 1: Like I am extremely dissimilar, Like I am the transfoman,

787
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:20,919
Speaker 1: like one of the transfomens who you will hear from

788
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 1: the most. And I have like a stable job. I

789
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: haven't been homeless, and I haven't done sex work, and

790
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 1: this makes me completely unlike a huge portion of trans people,

791
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: especially transferms, right, And yeah, it's like, yeah, it fucking

792
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: colors the way I do this shit in ways that

793
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 1: like I don't see because like I haven't had to

794
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: like do this shit, and this is a real fucking problem.

795
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,879
Speaker 1: The only way that it can not be like this

796
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,959
Speaker 1: is if people are actually willing to support the people

797
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: who understand these things because they've fucking gone through it,

798
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 1: and so so your options are like all of our

799
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: stuff gets reported on by Jesse Singahl and we all

800
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 1: fucking die, or we fund's journalism if we fight them

801
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 1: and we all live in a fucking better world.

802
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 2: My backup option if trans journalism doesn't work, you mentioned

803
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 2: sexpert is quite literally to write furry smut and hope

804
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:12,760
Speaker 2: that pays.

805
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 3: The last year, the Asheville Blade marked our tenth anniversary,

806
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 3: So I think I think that is worth mentioning too,

807
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 3: Like I think sometimes things and they truly are precarious,

808
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,760
Speaker 3: they truly are difficult in some ways, they're only getting

809
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 3: more precarious and more difficult. But at the same time,

810
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 3: despite our journalists being arrested, despite being kind of like

811
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 3: targeted and ignored by a lot of liberals and even

812
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 3: some leftists in town, we're still here. We're still doing journalism.

813
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 3: We just put out a really powerful investigation about you know,

814
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 3: more yet more mouthfeasance in the police department. So so yeah,

815
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 3: like it can be done. It's not impossible, And as

816
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,839
Speaker 3: tight as things are, there is also a lot of

817
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 3: resilience and we do get a lot of very genuine support.

818
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 3: I do think that's worth them sizing two. So, like,

819
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 3: there is strengthen there is some hope here. Yeah, and

820
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 3: you know, and again it's like it's it's not impossible.

821
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:08,759
Speaker 3: It just requires it.

822
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: Requires a bunch of fucking work from the trans people

823
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: who are doing it. And then also it requires, you know,

824
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 1: putting on my fucking MPR pledge to my voice. It

825
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: requires viewers like you to you know, it requires people

826
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,879
Speaker 1: to care enough about it to support it and make

827
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 1: it exist. And yeah, I think that's a that's a

828
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 1: kind of good note to start wrapping up. You have

829
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:33,879
Speaker 1: anything else that you want to make sure you get

830
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 1: in before we move too plugs.

831
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 4: I guess yeah, for me as as I'm also kind

832
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,400
Speaker 4: of in that spectrum of like being a little bit

833
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 4: more privileged as far as trans women go financially. And

834
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,359
Speaker 4: my message to other people who make especially since if

835
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 4: you're a SIST person you make over one hundred thousand dollars,

836
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 4: you're comfortable and you're feeling bad listening to this, you know,

837
00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 4: go give a trans person money, Go give my relizine

838
00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 4: my go give David Forbes money, like we have to.

839
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,879
Speaker 4: We really need everyone to start pitching in, especially people

840
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 4: who aren't trends, and we really need like it's it's

841
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,439
Speaker 4: literally life saving the money. Like and I think one

842
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 4: thing to consider is, you know, one thousand dollars to

843
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 4: someone who makes a lot of money is completely different

844
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 4: from one thousand dollars to someone who is like a

845
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 4: month away from being homeless.

846
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: And twenty dollars functions like.

847
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 4: That, Like yeah, twenty dollars is then like no, I

848
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 4: know so many people like one thousand dollars, like they'll go,

849
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 4: they'll spend a thousand dollars in a couple of weeks

850
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 4: on restaurants, right, And then there's people there's trans people

851
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,879
Speaker 4: with a thousand dollars it's like change their life forever.

852
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 2: To look on your's face, like the.

853
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 4: No, there's people who spend and I don't even do

854
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 4: twenty thousand dollars a year on sushi having worked in

855
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,439
Speaker 4: the service industry, Yeah.

856
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 2: I feel bad when I spend like twenty bucks on

857
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 2: Popeyes once a week, Like yeah, exactly.

858
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 4: So if you spend twenty thousand dollars a year on

859
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,399
Speaker 4: two if you please spend nineteen thousand dollars a year

860
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,919
Speaker 4: this year and said and give one thousand dollars to transperson.

861
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 2: That's my advice for you.

862
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 1: Double the income of a transperson today. This is also like,

863
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 1: you know, part of what I was talking about with

864
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:19,359
Speaker 1: like the Great Depression, Like we don't live in the

865
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,720
Speaker 1: same economy that everyone else does, Like it is literally

866
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 1: a different fucking world. And the more fucked you are,

867
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 1: like down the fucking scale of like of like trans poverty,

868
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 1: the more it's like you literally like the reality that

869
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:38,359
Speaker 1: like the people live in is just completely alien to you.

870
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,760
Speaker 2: It's like, what the fuck I want that kind of money?

871
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 1: Fuck, you're a David Diah. Do you have anything else

872
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 1: that you want to say before you like wrap up?

873
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 2: Please support trend journalists, please, dear God, Please, everyone I

874
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 2: know who is primarily a journalist for work is broke.

875
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 2: Need the money please toar God.

876
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 3: Yeah I would, yeah, add to that. But another thing is, look,

877
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 3: uhould support trans journals because trans people deserve to, you know,

878
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 3: to be supported and to be able to make a living. Also, frankly,

879
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,720
Speaker 3: we're really good at this, like generally as a whole,

880
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:22,959
Speaker 3: like we have a lot more perspective I think on

881
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 3: how this healthscape social structure actually does and doesn't work,

882
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:31,320
Speaker 3: and a lot more determination to actually tell the truth

883
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 3: in general, and so you know, dollars to the actual

884
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:40,320
Speaker 3: blade for example, or to or Tamra or too maddicast,

885
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 3: Like they go to journalism. You know, they're not going

886
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 3: to like some baroque hierarchy of you know, of gentry

887
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 3: administrators or something or CEOs.

888
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:53,720
Speaker 2: Like it goes to journalism.

889
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 3: It goes to actual interesting reporting and views and things

890
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:01,479
Speaker 3: that need to be said. So if people are even

891
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 3: just looking, if it's some journalism is something they care

892
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 3: about or think it needs to be stronger, this is

893
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 3: the way to do it.

894
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like, like this is also a directly political

895
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 1: thing because like the word that you'll do, Like I

896
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: have literally watched it change the sort of political landscape.

897
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 1: Like that's just like a thing that happens, you know,

898
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:19,720
Speaker 1: Like and I think we're all we're all very cynical

899
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: about sort of the power of like the truth to

900
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: do anything because it requires people to act on it.

901
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,720
Speaker 1: But you know, if you don't know anything is happening,

902
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 1: it is not possible to act on something. Yeah, So,

903
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 1: like you know, you are simultaneously you are supporting, like

904
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: you are supporting trans people in like the most vicarious

905
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 1: position we've been in in fucking ages. You are like

906
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 1: supporting your supporting journalism. And you are not even poking

907
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 1: a stick. You are helping build a lance to like

908
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 1: stab into the side of the people who are like

909
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 1: destroying this world. And yeah, I think that's fucking important.

910
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 1: So if people want to support you, where do they go?

911
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 1: Where do they go?

912
00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 2: Go?

913
00:47:57,719 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 1: Go, go go.

914
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 2: Yeah. So if you want to support me, go to

915
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,840
Speaker 2: the Free radical dot org. That that that is my newsletter.

916
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:11,800
Speaker 2: There's stuff to subscribe and and and give money. You

917
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 2: can do a free subscription, you know, especially for broke,

918
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 2: please do a free subscription, like we don't. I don't

919
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 2: need your twenty dollars. I'll give you my twenty dollars please.

920
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 2: And also I have a cofi if you know, need

921
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 2: to like a one time saying, it's mirror Lusine. I'm

922
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 2: the only one only mirrors and Losine on there. And

923
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:37,280
Speaker 2: if you subscribe, you're supporting some of the only trans

924
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 2: anarchist national news coverage. Basically in every single article I write,

925
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 2: I try to find a way to shoot order anarchist

926
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 2: theory and what fucking I'm sucking. Like my first article,

927
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 2: I was like, hey, go check out crime thing, the

928
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 2: one who one I published yesterday. I just I went

929
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 2: on a whole like page long tangent where I'm like, okay, cool,

930
00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 2: so this is what more liberal people are saying. But

931
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 2: go read Lorenzo O. Kombola Irvin, go read queryan anarchism,

932
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,879
Speaker 2: Go read this shit, and yeah that's I just want

933
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 2: to shoehorn anarchist theory and get more people will be anarchists.

934
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

935
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, So if you ever want to support maddiecast News,

936
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 4: to be clear, I don't take any income from the website,

937
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 4: actually having plant plans to put lots of money into it,

938
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 4: but all of your money will be going towards supporting

939
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 4: other trends journalists, So that's one way to contribute to

940
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 4: the cause. So or even if you just give me

941
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 4: your email, I appreciate that too. But my website is

942
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,800
Speaker 4: maddiecast dot com and that's only one b So m

943
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 4: a d y cast dot com and round bluebliskuy too

944
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:46,319
Speaker 4: with the same same website named and yeah, thank you.

945
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:50,320
Speaker 4: People can find our co ops work at Ashville Blade

946
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 4: dot com and there's a giant link to our Patreon there.

947
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:56,760
Speaker 4: For fifteen bucks a month, you can get a lovely

948
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 4: Gentry Tears mug, which we're particularly proud.

949
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,400
Speaker 2: Of it, so cool it rules.

950
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 3: Thank you for the endorsement, And at the end of

951
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:09,439
Speaker 3: each article we have addition to our Patreon a link

952
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 3: if folks just want to send us some one time support,

953
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 3: we'll certainly put that to use as well, and if

954
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 3: they would like to see some of my personal writings

955
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 3: about trans survival as well as some anarchists looks at

956
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 3: various periods of history Patreon dot com slash David Forbes

957
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 3: if if that is, if that is more of their

958
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:28,760
Speaker 3: cup of tea.

959
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 1: Satistically in our audience, I know there are a bunch

960
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 1: of you whose special interest either is or could be

961
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 1: medieval peasant uprisings. You were not going to find better

962
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:41,359
Speaker 1: writing on medieval peasant up risings anywhere else. Yes, there

963
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 1: is a limit to the extent to which you can

964
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 1: actually talk about the structural problems that are happening, and

965
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 1: you can't fucking talk about how to solve them. And

966
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,320
Speaker 1: this is also partially why I have a cogul journalists

967
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 1: like I kind of jokingly refuse to call myself a

968
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 1: journalist because, like I, fucking I refuse to be associated

969
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 1: with like all of those goddamn Atlantic mother fuckers who

970
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 1: institutional jobs to endanger trans people, like you know.

971
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,280
Speaker 2: But also around of fascist though that's.

972
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 1: True, that's true, yeah, you know, because it's like we're

973
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,399
Speaker 1: the ones actually fucking doing this shit. But also yeah,

974
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 1: like this is you know, to do my one, to

975
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:16,880
Speaker 1: do my one Karl Marx quote. It's like, you know,

976
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 1: philosophy has hitherto only sought to describe the world. The

977
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 1: point is to change it. And that's a thing that

978
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:26,840
Speaker 1: we could that like, we like have the power to

979
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 1: collectively do together. And that's something that like the New

980
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 1: York Times does not want you to know that you

981
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:33,720
Speaker 1: can change things.

982
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, they to borrow a trem David has recently

983
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:43,800
Speaker 2: gotten into my vocabulary. A bunch the gentry really fucking

984
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 2: do not like the idea of solutions. Their idea of

985
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 2: a solution is go vote for Pete Boudage egg, go

986
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 2: sign the Acal Years petition.

987
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want, I want to read this this fucking

988
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 1: post that I saw for at Kencher Rights about the

989
00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:59,959
Speaker 1: New York Times. I think a lot about the top

990
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 1: New York Times editor who I told the historians were

991
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 1: warning were in a similar period to the ramp up

992
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 1: to the Holocaust, And maybe we could look back and

993
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 1: see what NYT had done wrong to not repeat his mistakes.

994
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 1: He shrugged, New York Times didn't really cover the Holocaust.

995
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 3: Oh my god, what, So don't support these people, support

996
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:19,879
Speaker 3: the people who actually.

997
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 2: Do this shit, you know, like I.

998
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 1: Go, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make a cut of comparison.

999
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 1: But it was like, at the time this shit was happening,

1000
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 1: there was a bunch of very good coverage of the Holocaust,

1001
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:30,799
Speaker 1: of what was happening, but it was because it was

1002
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,280
Speaker 1: all happening from fucking like, because it was like largely

1003
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:36,320
Speaker 1: Jewish radicals who were doing it, All that shit fucking

1004
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:39,760
Speaker 1: got ignored, and shit that could have been fucking prevented wasn't.

1005
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:43,919
Speaker 1: And we don't have to live in a world where

1006
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 1: that shit fucking happens, and we can make it not

1007
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 1: be like that. But like the structural, the structural like

1008
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:51,879
Speaker 1: structural dature of the media is one of the ways

1009
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 1: that this fucking happens. And we don't have to let

1010
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 1: the New York Times do this again.

1011
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 3: No, And that's a good reminder there is another way

1012
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 3: with journalism, you know. Ida Welles was able to detail

1013
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:06,799
Speaker 3: the extent and horror of American segregation and lynching, and

1014
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 3: also called for people to shoot the clan. Yeah, this

1015
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 3: is the you know, the modern idea that you have

1016
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 3: to be detached, inevitably attached from pretty gentry perspective.

1017
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:18,799
Speaker 2: You know, there's a world elsewhere, there's other ways to

1018
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:19,360
Speaker 2: do things.

1019
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 5: It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

1020
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 5: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

1021
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:32,280
Speaker 5: coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1022
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:35,920
Speaker 5: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

1023
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,280
Speaker 5: now find sources for it could Happen here, listed directly

1024
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 5: in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.