WEBVTT - Work in Progress: S.E. Cupp 0:00:00.000 --> 0:00:15.960 Hey everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello Whipsmarties, 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:20.000 welcome back this week. Oh man, am I excited about 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:23.080 this week's guest. Like many of you, I have been 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:27.000 trying to keep up with the fire hose of news 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:30.720 and fear and stress and all of the things. If 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:34.920 you are a VA worker who's funding got cut this week, 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:37.320 I see you and I'm so sorry. If you are 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:39.879 a student who doesn't know if your pelgrant is going 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:42.960 to come, I see you and I am so sorry. 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:46.360 I see you all. I know people are overwhelmed, and 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:51.640 I needed to turn to somebody for some hope and 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:55.320 some advice and I don't know, maybe a little bit 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:58.440 of strategy. And I figured it would be really important 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:01.319 to reach across the pro be all ile to do that. 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:04.640 And so I'm sitting down today with a journalist I 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:09.080 admire who was raised as a conservative woman, none other 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:12.760 than Sarah Elizabeth Cupp. You may know her as a 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:16.440 TV host, a political commentator, or a writer. She has 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:20.720 her show se Cup Unfiltered. She's featured often on Politico 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:25.000 dot Com, CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, and this year she 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:28.959 has started an amazing podcast right here on iHeart called 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:33.039 off the cup honestly because she needed a break from 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:36.280 the news, from politics, from being triggered from all of it, 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:42.400 and somehow leaning into life has reinvigorated her for all 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:46.280 of that too, including yes, the political And it's that 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:49.160 sort of full circle that I am in need of 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:52.240 the inspiration of. So I asked her to join us 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:56.320 today to talk about all of it career, family, identity, 0:01:56.480 --> 0:01:59.920 mental health, and how we can really be great at 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:04.840 the kits for our communities in the future of this year, 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:08.080 the next four years and beyond. So let's sit down 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:22.280 with our friend Essie. Sarah, thank you so much for 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:24.600 joining me on the show today. I have been so 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:29.120 excited about this interview, and since the news is a 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:32.760 fire hose, I'm like, I don't even know where we 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:34.279 should start. 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:39.359 Pick up pick pick pick up place. I mean, okay, yeah. 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:40.800 We could just throw a dart at the wall and 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:43.600 we'll hit something interesting. At this point, Well, where I 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:46.560 normally like to start with people is actually to rewind 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:49.600 from the present, because I sit across from so many 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:53.239 folks like yourself, who are accomplished and who have these incredible, 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:56.760 you know, resumes and lists of accolades. But I'm curious 0:02:56.800 --> 0:03:00.359 if you got to, you know, bend space time and 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:03.960 sit with your eight year old self, if you would 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:08.280 see in her the sort of inklings of who you 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:12.480 are today, your career, your personality, or could you have 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:14.040 never expected this at eight? 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:16.040 That's a great question. 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:21.000 I'm jealous because I do a podcast like this as 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:23.239 well and never thought to ask that one. It's a 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:25.600 great one. 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:26.480 Yes and no. 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:32.200 I was a bit of a ham as a kid. 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:35.120 I was a performer. I did, I danced ballet, and 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:39.880 I acted. I sang. So the idea that I would 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:45.480 have a forward facing, front facing job would not have 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:48.440 surprised me, but I would have assumed it would have been. 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:52.680 More creative in the creative arts. 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:57.280 But I was always very curious, and I was interested 0:03:57.320 --> 0:03:58.200 in the news. 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:02.680 At a very early age, and so I don't. 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:04.520 Think I would have put together that it would have 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:07.320 led me here to a career in journalism and definitely 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:11.000 not to a career on television. But I think if I, 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:13.840 if I looked back, there were inklings of who I 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:17.159 would become. I didn't know that i'd be a mother. 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:20.040 That's something that came to me much later in life. 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:22.200 I didn't know that I'd love being a. 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:26.279 Mother, But no, I think there were shreds of it. 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:28.960 Was I was very independent, I was an only child, 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:32.640 so yeah, some of it, Yes, some of it I 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:34.800 could say interesting. 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:39.640 And what do you think drew you to the news? 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:44.279 Was there this sort of breaking news current events aspect 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:48.279 of it all. Was it that you found the inner 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:51.600 workings of politics really interesting? What? What was this part? 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:53.680 Yeah? 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:57.279 For me, it wasn't even the stories themselves, it was 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:00.680 the way they were being covered. I remember it ten 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:04.279 or eleven, lying on my living room floor with my 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:10.159 parents watching the Gulf War and being less interested in 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:13.120 the geopolitics of it that I was in the way 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:18.120 Bernie Shaw was reporting on it for CNN, which is 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:21.920 like wild because now here I am. But I mean 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:25.760 that's a real early memory of loving, like getting obsessed 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:31.120 with news coverage of major events, and that carried with 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:34.640 me through, you know, all of the history of my 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:39.120 young adult life, wanting to see how people covered those stories, 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:44.120 and in particular watching women like Diane Sawyer and Jane 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:48.360 Pauley cover big stories and the places they would find themselves. 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:49.240 I love to travel. 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:52.240 As a kid, I thought that, you know, traveling as 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:55.479 a newsperson sounded amazing. I know, when I was seventeen, 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:58.680 a magazine came out about the news, and I spent 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:01.840 my own allowance to get a some description to this magazine. 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:04.200 Like I was kind of a nerd, a media nerd. 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:08.159 And when I got to college and I worked at 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:10.440 the school newspaper, I knew, this is what I want 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:10.640 to do. 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.440 This is what I was made to do. I was 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:14.760 built to do this. 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:19.440 Television wasn't on the radar at all, but journalism, you know, 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:23.000 it was clear by the time I could choose that's 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:23.720 what I wanted to do. 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:27.640 Okay, And what do you remember then about your first 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:28.479 TV appearance? 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:31.240 So I had just written a book with a co 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:34.840 author and Simon to choose to publish it, and it 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:36.880 was a political book, and they decided, well, we need 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:38.160 to go on TV and promote it. 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:41.000 So our first appearance was on Morning Joe. 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:46.839 And all I remember, Sophia is is my co author 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:48.400 being very nervous. 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:52.160 And me being not at all nervous. And I thought, in. 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:54.200 Those moments, this is either going to go terribly that 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:57.120 badly for me because of my hubris, Like why am 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:00.160 I not nervous or it's going to serve me well. 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:04.359 And it served me well. I didn't get nervous. I 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:09.240 could put sentences together, and they just kept asking me 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:12.280 back to talk about the next political story. I think 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:14.360 I was something of a novelty then. I was a 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:19.760 young female conservative in Manhattan and who had just written 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:23.840 a book defending conservatism, and. 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:24.800 So it was a bit of a novelty. 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:28.160 I had to prove that I was smart and that 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:30.360 I could hang through every news cycle. But yeah, they 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:33.600 just kept bringing me back to talk about politics, and 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:36.320 I did because it helped promote my writing. 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:38.000 And that's all I cared about, was the writing. 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:44.720 I didn't foresee TV really taking over, you know, my 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:48.679 career the way it has. But it's been a great 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:55.160 and very lucky, fortunate turn of events because not only 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:57.520 do I get to write, which is what matters to me, 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:00.760 but I also get a platform to tell stories visually 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:06.119 and orally and you know, shine a light on issues 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:06.880 that really matter to me. 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:12.240 I love it, and it's it's exciting to me, you know, 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:15.360 for us to sit down because there's this sort of 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:18.880 narrative out in the world that you know, folks who 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:23.920 are I think ideologically perhaps identified by the public, but 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:28.400 not known in the incrementalism required to you know, be 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:32.400 a full human or perhaps form our opinions. People might think, well, 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:34.920 there's no way Sarah's going to go on Sophia's podcast, 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:36.480 And there's no ways if you would go on, Sarah. 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:38.920 It's like they'll just assume we don't want to speak 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:41.360 to each other because we quote come from different sides 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:45.840 of the aisle. And what excites me, particularly in a 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:49.840 moment like this, is we're both talking about many of 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:54.079 the things we agree on, particularly you know, the founding 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:58.000 ideals of this country and what liberty looks like and 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:03.120 all of these things. And I'm saying all of this 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:06.360 because I'm looking at the question I had meant to 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:08.079 ask you next, which was what has been the most 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:10.240 challenging time of your career so far? And I was like, 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:12.400 I wonder if it was maybe when you had to 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:14.640 sort of speak out about the insanity of this cult 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:17.480 of trump Ism in the last election, you know, none 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:20.640 of us being able to forward think to where we 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:24.120 are in present day, which is the reason I'm just 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:26.480 going ahead and saying all of this just to say, 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:27.600 who to thunk it? 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:29.360 Yeah, here we are. 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:32.720 It seems like a silly question to ask, but I 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:35.160 do want to know the answer. And it's okay if 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:40.000 that answer is right now, because our our collective, our 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:47.200 America's house is on fire. Like, how do you, as 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:51.839 someone who came up as a self identifying conservative who 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:58.280 has pushed back on a lot of this insanity? 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:02.800 Like all of it? Like almost, yeah, yeah. 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:04.520 Okay, a few things, and you pick where we start. 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:08.839 How did you find the courage to say this is unacceptable? Also, 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:09.720 this is lawless? 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:11.240 Huh? You did it? 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:14.800 Then we've unfortunately come back to the bad place. How 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:17.320 are you doing it now? Is it a threat to 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:20.040 your career because people have certainly told me that my 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:23.080 outspokenness about politics has threatened and hurt my career forever. 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:24.920 But I think it's my duty as a citizen. 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:29.160 Like, girl, what are we doing next? 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:31.360 Can you just give us all sort of a lay 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:35.000 of the land for you since twenty sixteen and how 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:37.840 you view it now that we've been through this once before. 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:41.080 There's a lot in there, there's a lot in there. 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:43.120 There's a lot in there. And let me start by saying, 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:46.520 I'm paid to do what I do. 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:50.520 The courage you have in doing this and waiting into 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:55.080 this space. This is explicitly not what you're paid to do. 0:10:56.520 --> 0:11:00.359 So taking that leap, upsetting the apple cart of your career. 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:03.920 Was a huge risk. 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:07.400 And I'm sure it's paying off for you personally, professionally. 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:09.840 In all the ways, but huge, huge risk for you. 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:13.640 It's a risk for me because I was inside of 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:18.319 this establishment, both a media establishment and a political establishment 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:24.360 that now sees me as a trader. And there's a 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:31.080 physical risk because I get death threats and attempts silence 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:38.120 me and actual attacks. That part's not fun, but I 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:41.960 am this is what I'm paid to do, and I 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:44.640 could do it a couple of ways. I have a 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:46.960 lot of friends who came up like I did, and 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:49.400 to Si Wall, just keep going where the power is, 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:56.520 and I'll start justifying stuff. Stuff that I know is 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:59.679 not right, that I know at very least isn't conservative, 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:02.360 but I also know isn't right, isn't good for the country, 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:06.679 maybe isn't good for our party. I'll just start justifying 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:09.520 it because it'll help me keep my job, and it'll help 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:11.959 me keep my friends. It might even bring me more 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:14.920 money and power out of blah blah blah, lots of 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:15.600 people did that. 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:20.120 I could have decided I'm out. I don't want to 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:20.440 do this. 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:23.280 I don't want to put my hand on the hot stove. 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:25.880 I don't want this heat. I don't like what's going on. 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:27.240 But I also don't want to be at the center 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:29.360 of it or involved in it. I'll go do something else. 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:36.240 I decided to stay and say what I believed, and 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:42.040 it's come with professional and personal peril, but I need 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:45.000 to sleep at night, and I need to know, Okay, 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:47.840 what did I do with this platform that in a 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:50.680 way I lucked into What am I going to do 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:51.120 with it? 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:55.880 And how am I going to use it responsibly? 0:12:56.960 --> 0:13:01.680 So the idea that I would justify what Trump and 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:07.000 then Republicans have done never crossed my mind. That option 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:10.160 was never a possibility for me. I couldn't do it, 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:13.880 and I believe so deeply in conservative principles. 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:15.440 And let me just say one thing. 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:20.400 I am grateful to Donald Trump for one reason, because 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:23.280 we've all had to shed some of the things that 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:27.480 quote unquote defined us and talk to each other like people, 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:33.400 like empathetic, compassionate people. You and I agree on so 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:36.760 much that we would not have identified eight years earlier 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:39.720 because we wouldn't have You were on this side, I 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:41.120 was on this side. I don't know that we would 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.240 have sat down for a conversation. We've had to strip 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:46.600 some of that away to say, what do we agree on? 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:50.080 There's so much and that stuff is actually so so 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:55.720 very important. So I you know, I've gone through many 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:59.400 phases in my career where I was a right wing 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:04.760 media darling. I moved from Fox to MSNBC. I was 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:07.720 the token conservative and I got the hate from the 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:12.240 far left. Moved to CNN, found myself being a bit 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:14.800 more centrist as a reaction to what was going on, 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:20.680 and then became you know, just from the jump anti 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:22.880 Trump resistance, this isn't right. 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:23.720 And now all the. 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:26.040 Hates coming from me from people I used to know. 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.680 So it's been disorienting. It's taken a toll on my 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:34.560 mental health. The hardest part of my career has been 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:41.120 the last eight years, from twenty fifteen, I guess ten 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:44.840 now to now, because not only has it been hard 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:50.680 to professionally cover the flood, the zone chaos of it, 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:53.480 but it's personal for me. A lot of these people 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:57.400 were friends and colleagues, and it's been super disorienting to 0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:00.440 be in one place and now I'm ostracized and it's fine, 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:01.960 but figuring out who I. 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:03.160 Am, where do I belong? 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:04.000 Yeah? 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:05.800 And I also had a mental breakdown, like I had 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:09.240 a nervous breakdown in twenty twenty one and had to 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:13.040 figure out do I need to do this anymore? And 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:16.120 can I and be healthy? Yeah? 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:18.480 And now a word from our sponsors that I really 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:27.480 enjoy and I think you will too. I love how 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:29.880 Frank You're willing to be about so much of this 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:35.760 that point, especially for some reason, everyone everyone will say 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.320 to people in media, particularly women in media, oh, will 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:38.960 you asked for this? 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.040 Yeah? Comes with a job, right. 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:44.880 Nobody asked for this. Nobody asked to be stocked or 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:48.800 rass to be threatened with death. I'm there. I actually had, 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:53.600 particularly during you know, the fight against him, you know, 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:57.360 fifteen into sixteen in the last administration, when I became 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:01.520 one of the major like repeats, constant articles written on 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:06.840 Brightbart targets. I had some friends of I would say 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:09.960 ours people on all sides of the political spectrum say, well, 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:12.280 you kind of have to wear it as a badge 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:14.240 of honor because if they're coming after you, it means 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:19.360 you're an incredibly effective messenger. You tell the truth. Well, 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:22.120 you're not such a policy wonk that people too now 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:25.600 because it's all numbers. You're communicating effectively and they don't 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:27.440 like it, so they want to scare you. And I said, Wow, 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:30.400 it's really wild that a media establishment would say we 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:34.680 need to attack this citizen for saying that, you know, 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:39.560 dictatorship tactics or dictatorship tactics by making crazy people want 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:40.120 to kill her. 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:44.320 Ye, And you've been there, and I. 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:48.120 Have certainly had to learn to deal with anxiety. I 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:51.400 have had to learn to deal with terror. I have 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:56.680 made excellent friends in many arenas of local and federal 0:16:56.760 --> 0:17:02.240 law enforcement. It is so it's so crazy to have 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:06.080 to learn to navigate those things. And I know what 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:10.639 it's like to not want to leave my house. How 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:15.200 are you? I admire that you're able to just tell 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:18.280 it like it is, and I admire that you're willing 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:21.240 to talk about it and be honest. So what does 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:25.119 in your definition, what does a nervous breakdown look like? 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:28.240 How do you realize it's happening? And how do you 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:29.800 get on the other side of it? Because there are 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:33.000 people at home who I know are desperate to understand 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:33.480 this better. 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:36.600 Yeah, I do too, And it's why I talk about 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:38.280 it a lot, because when you talk about it, it 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:41.280 gets easier to talk about it, and talking about it 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:45.040 is the first barrier to getting mental health help. Yah, 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:48.879 So talking about it is paramount for me. It was 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:53.960 twenty twenty one, and it's not like one thing happened. 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:59.080 I had been an anxious person, unknowingly for most of 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:04.919 my life, and as such, I had created habits that 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:10.560 I thought were keeping me safe. They were not catastrophizing, 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:15.240 which is you know, I would do this all day. 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:17.480 I would occupy. 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:19.520 My brain with the worst thing that could happen at 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:23.200 any given second. So if I'm driving, it's a car accident. 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.359 If my son's at school, it's something happening at school. 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.080 But it would at its worst, it would be twenty 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:34.679 four seven. And it was emotionally, physically, mentally exhausting. But 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:37.840 I told myself, if I don't do that, it'll happen. 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:40.200 The bad thing will happen. So then I was bargaining 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:43.560 with my anxiety, making deals with my anxiety. If I 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:49.080 do this to myself, it won't actually happen. And I 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:51.840 didn't realize I didn't process that I was doing this, 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:55.400 and I, in fact thought, this is what responsible people do. 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:59.360 They are constantly thinking about what could go wrong, preparing. 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:02.239 Doesn't everyone go into a restaurant and look for all 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:06.159 the exits, you know, just stuff that I thought was like, 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:10.040 I'm a responsible this is adulting. 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:11.080 Yeah. 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:15.520 By the time, you know. 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:17.720 I'd been doing this for a very long time to 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:24.960 myself and other awful habits too, my body said enough. 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:29.680 One day, I had an anxiety attack in public. 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:33.000 Went home. 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:38.280 My vision was I couldn't see very well, I couldn't 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:41.760 hear very well. Things were jumbled. I laid in bed 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:45.919 for about three days. I couldn't focus on anything. I 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:48.600 didn't understand. I'd turned on the TV. I didn't understand 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:54.199 like the news. I was instantly very sad, and I 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:56.640 had not been like depressed or anything. 0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:59.639 I was overwhelmed. Yeah, and the good news is it 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:02.080 was so severe and debilitating. I knew I needed help 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:02.600 right away. 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:05.560 And so there was no like I'll sleep this off 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:10.520 or I'll take a break. This was what is happening 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:12.600 to me, and I need help today. 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:18.360 So I did. I got several doctors, embarked on. 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:25.399 A therapy journey, a medication journey, and for the past 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:29.120 four years I've been in therapy to deal with this 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:35.360 severe anxiety that is at its worst totally took over 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:38.600 my life. I didn't know you didn't have to live 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:42.520 that way. And so my message is always talk about it, 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:46.040 because if I had known some of the habits, some 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:49.920 of the tricks we did as anxious people, I might 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:53.760 have gotten help earlier, before I was twenty years into 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:57.240 these habits when it's so hard to unlearn them. Yes, 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:01.840 and I'm writing a book now about anxiety, and it's 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:07.080 about my journey to learn how to live without anxiety 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:09.080 because I learned to live with it really well. I 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:13.320 got great at it, of course, right, but and it's addicting. 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:14.200 It can be addicting. 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:17.280 Well, what it does, even just in your body hormonally, 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:19.399 when you are constantly in fight or flight and you 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:23.280 are pumping adrenaline exactly right when you start to stop 0:21:23.359 --> 0:21:28.760 doing that, you're exhausted because you're feeling the exhaustion of 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:31.560 the four years that you've been running on pure adrenaline 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:35.280 that you've essentially been over caffeinated, and you're feeling the 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:40.359 exhaustion of a body that is missing something that's been 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:42.480 keeping it in forward motion. It kind of feels like 0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:45.560 you get hit by a bus, yeah daily, start to 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:49.600 not be a level ten anxious person all the time. 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:51.320 Yeah yeah. 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:55.040 And I think that's part of what's so important to 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:56.920 talk about as well, is what it feels like to 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:02.960 heal and how healing can sometimes be the beginning of 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:09.240 it's painful, very And I think it's part of why 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:11.600 I admire the way that you talk about this. It's 0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:15.679 part of why you know, I have chosen to be 0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:18.159 very frank about what it was like to leave a 0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:21.840 workplace that was very toxic and violent for me because 0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:27.400 it was making me so sick, and what it took 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:30.879 to recuperate from that, and and the sort of aha 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:33.520 moment I had when I finally said I'm at a 0:22:33.520 --> 0:22:36.920 breaking point and people who I'd been asking to help 0:22:36.960 --> 0:22:40.520 me change it for four years, when we had no idea, 0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:44.879 and I was like, what have you not been listening? 0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:50.320 A and then B I had to look inward and go, oh, 0:22:50.359 --> 0:22:56.480 how has my adrenaline pump been masking how bad? 0:22:56.560 --> 0:22:59.480 This is exactly right, and. 0:22:59.840 --> 0:23:02.520 It it's weird because it's all the things, particularly as 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:06.560 women in these competitive industries and these very cutthroat spaces 0:23:06.800 --> 0:23:09.520 that you get rewarded for. You're such a good soldier, 0:23:09.560 --> 0:23:12.400 you're such a good tugboat, you're never tired, you're you're 0:23:12.440 --> 0:23:14.399 a good troop leader. They like to use a lot 0:23:14.440 --> 0:23:18.640 of like military terminology with us about how tough you are, 0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:20.120 and you know that old like. 0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:21.240 You're not like the other girls. 0:23:21.240 --> 0:23:23.160 And then you're like, oh, wow, that's patriarchy. That's trying 0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:27.000 to kill us all, including you. Cool, but it takes 0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:30.120 a while to realize, Oh, those things that I used 0:23:30.119 --> 0:23:32.159 to wear like a badge of honor have been doing 0:23:32.600 --> 0:23:33.840