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Speaker 1: Hey everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello Whipsmarties,

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Speaker 1: welcome back this week. Oh man, am I excited about

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Speaker 1: this week's guest. Like many of you, I have been

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Speaker 1: trying to keep up with the fire hose of news

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Speaker 1: and fear and stress and all of the things. If

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Speaker 1: you are a VA worker who's funding got cut this week,

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Speaker 1: I see you and I'm so sorry. If you are

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Speaker 1: a student who doesn't know if your pelgrant is going

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Speaker 1: to come, I see you and I am so sorry.

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Speaker 1: I see you all. I know people are overwhelmed, and

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Speaker 1: I needed to turn to somebody for some hope and

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Speaker 1: some advice and I don't know, maybe a little bit

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Speaker 1: of strategy. And I figured it would be really important

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Speaker 1: to reach across the pro be all ile to do that.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm sitting down today with a journalist I

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Speaker 1: admire who was raised as a conservative woman, none other

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Speaker 1: than Sarah Elizabeth Cupp. You may know her as a

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Speaker 1: TV host, a political commentator, or a writer. She has

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Speaker 1: her show se Cup Unfiltered. She's featured often on Politico

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Speaker 1: dot Com, CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, and this year she

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Speaker 1: has started an amazing podcast right here on iHeart called

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Speaker 1: off the cup honestly because she needed a break from

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Speaker 1: the news, from politics, from being triggered from all of it,

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Speaker 1: and somehow leaning into life has reinvigorated her for all

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Speaker 1: of that too, including yes, the political And it's that

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Speaker 1: sort of full circle that I am in need of

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Speaker 1: the inspiration of. So I asked her to join us

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Speaker 1: today to talk about all of it career, family, identity,

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Speaker 1: mental health, and how we can really be great at

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Speaker 1: the kits for our communities in the future of this year,

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Speaker 1: the next four years and beyond. So let's sit down

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Speaker 1: with our friend Essie. Sarah, thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: joining me on the show today. I have been so

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Speaker 1: excited about this interview, and since the news is a

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Speaker 1: fire hose, I'm like, I don't even know where we

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Speaker 1: should start.

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Speaker 2: Pick up pick pick pick up place. I mean, okay, yeah.

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Speaker 1: We could just throw a dart at the wall and

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Speaker 1: we'll hit something interesting. At this point, Well, where I

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Speaker 1: normally like to start with people is actually to rewind

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Speaker 1: from the present, because I sit across from so many

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Speaker 1: folks like yourself, who are accomplished and who have these incredible,

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Speaker 1: you know, resumes and lists of accolades. But I'm curious

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Speaker 1: if you got to, you know, bend space time and

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Speaker 1: sit with your eight year old self, if you would

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Speaker 1: see in her the sort of inklings of who you

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Speaker 1: are today, your career, your personality, or could you have

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Speaker 1: never expected this at eight?

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Speaker 2: That's a great question.

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Speaker 3: I'm jealous because I do a podcast like this as

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Speaker 3: well and never thought to ask that one. It's a

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Speaker 3: great one.

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Speaker 2: Yes and no.

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Speaker 3: I was a bit of a ham as a kid.

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Speaker 3: I was a performer. I did, I danced ballet, and

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Speaker 3: I acted. I sang. So the idea that I would

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Speaker 3: have a forward facing, front facing job would not have

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Speaker 3: surprised me, but I would have assumed it would have been.

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Speaker 2: More creative in the creative arts.

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Speaker 3: But I was always very curious, and I was interested

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Speaker 3: in the news.

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Speaker 2: At a very early age, and so I don't.

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Speaker 3: Think I would have put together that it would have

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Speaker 3: led me here to a career in journalism and definitely

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Speaker 3: not to a career on television. But I think if I,

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Speaker 3: if I looked back, there were inklings of who I

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Speaker 3: would become. I didn't know that i'd be a mother.

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Speaker 3: That's something that came to me much later in life.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know that I'd love being a.

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Speaker 2: Mother, But no, I think there were shreds of it.

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Speaker 3: Was I was very independent, I was an only child,

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Speaker 3: so yeah, some of it, Yes, some of it I

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Speaker 3: could say interesting.

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Speaker 1: And what do you think drew you to the news?

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Speaker 1: Was there this sort of breaking news current events aspect

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Speaker 1: of it all. Was it that you found the inner

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Speaker 1: workings of politics really interesting? What? What was this part?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: For me, it wasn't even the stories themselves, it was

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Speaker 3: the way they were being covered. I remember it ten

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Speaker 3: or eleven, lying on my living room floor with my

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Speaker 3: parents watching the Gulf War and being less interested in

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Speaker 3: the geopolitics of it that I was in the way

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Speaker 3: Bernie Shaw was reporting on it for CNN, which is

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Speaker 3: like wild because now here I am. But I mean

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Speaker 3: that's a real early memory of loving, like getting obsessed

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Speaker 3: with news coverage of major events, and that carried with

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Speaker 3: me through, you know, all of the history of my

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Speaker 3: young adult life, wanting to see how people covered those stories,

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Speaker 3: and in particular watching women like Diane Sawyer and Jane

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Speaker 3: Pauley cover big stories and the places they would find themselves.

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Speaker 2: I love to travel.

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Speaker 3: As a kid, I thought that, you know, traveling as

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Speaker 3: a newsperson sounded amazing. I know, when I was seventeen,

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Speaker 3: a magazine came out about the news, and I spent

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Speaker 3: my own allowance to get a some description to this magazine.

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Speaker 2: Like I was kind of a nerd, a media nerd.

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Speaker 3: And when I got to college and I worked at

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Speaker 3: the school newspaper, I knew, this is what I want

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Speaker 3: to do.

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Speaker 2: This is what I was made to do. I was

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Speaker 2: built to do this.

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Speaker 3: Television wasn't on the radar at all, but journalism, you know,

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Speaker 3: it was clear by the time I could choose that's

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Speaker 3: what I wanted to do.

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Speaker 1: Okay, And what do you remember then about your first

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Speaker 1: TV appearance?

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Speaker 3: So I had just written a book with a co

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Speaker 3: author and Simon to choose to publish it, and it

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Speaker 3: was a political book, and they decided, well, we need

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Speaker 3: to go on TV and promote it.

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Speaker 2: So our first appearance was on Morning Joe.

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Speaker 3: And all I remember, Sophia is is my co author

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Speaker 3: being very nervous.

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Speaker 2: And me being not at all nervous. And I thought, in.

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Speaker 3: Those moments, this is either going to go terribly that

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Speaker 3: badly for me because of my hubris, Like why am

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Speaker 3: I not nervous or it's going to serve me well.

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Speaker 3: And it served me well. I didn't get nervous. I

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Speaker 3: could put sentences together, and they just kept asking me

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Speaker 3: back to talk about the next political story. I think

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Speaker 3: I was something of a novelty then. I was a

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Speaker 3: young female conservative in Manhattan and who had just written

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Speaker 3: a book defending conservatism, and.

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Speaker 2: So it was a bit of a novelty.

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Speaker 3: I had to prove that I was smart and that

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Speaker 3: I could hang through every news cycle. But yeah, they

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Speaker 3: just kept bringing me back to talk about politics, and

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Speaker 3: I did because it helped promote my writing.

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Speaker 2: And that's all I cared about, was the writing.

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Speaker 3: I didn't foresee TV really taking over, you know, my

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Speaker 3: career the way it has. But it's been a great

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Speaker 3: and very lucky, fortunate turn of events because not only

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Speaker 3: do I get to write, which is what matters to me,

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Speaker 3: but I also get a platform to tell stories visually

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Speaker 3: and orally and you know, shine a light on issues

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Speaker 3: that really matter to me.

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Speaker 1: I love it, and it's it's exciting to me, you know,

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Speaker 1: for us to sit down because there's this sort of

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Speaker 1: narrative out in the world that you know, folks who

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Speaker 1: are I think ideologically perhaps identified by the public, but

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Speaker 1: not known in the incrementalism required to you know, be

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Speaker 1: a full human or perhaps form our opinions. People might think, well,

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Speaker 1: there's no way Sarah's going to go on Sophia's podcast,

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Speaker 1: And there's no ways if you would go on, Sarah.

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Speaker 1: It's like they'll just assume we don't want to speak

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Speaker 1: to each other because we quote come from different sides

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Speaker 1: of the aisle. And what excites me, particularly in a

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Speaker 1: moment like this, is we're both talking about many of

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Speaker 1: the things we agree on, particularly you know, the founding

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Speaker 1: ideals of this country and what liberty looks like and

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Speaker 1: all of these things. And I'm saying all of this

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Speaker 1: because I'm looking at the question I had meant to

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Speaker 1: ask you next, which was what has been the most

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Speaker 1: challenging time of your career so far? And I was like,

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Speaker 1: I wonder if it was maybe when you had to

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Speaker 1: sort of speak out about the insanity of this cult

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Speaker 1: of trump Ism in the last election, you know, none

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Speaker 1: of us being able to forward think to where we

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Speaker 1: are in present day, which is the reason I'm just

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Speaker 1: going ahead and saying all of this just to say,

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Speaker 1: who to thunk it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, here we are.

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Speaker 1: It seems like a silly question to ask, but I

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Speaker 1: do want to know the answer. And it's okay if

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Speaker 1: that answer is right now, because our our collective, our

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Speaker 1: America's house is on fire. Like, how do you, as

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Speaker 1: someone who came up as a self identifying conservative who

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Speaker 1: has pushed back on a lot of this insanity?

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Speaker 2: Like all of it? Like almost, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Okay, a few things, and you pick where we start.

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Speaker 1: How did you find the courage to say this is unacceptable? Also,

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Speaker 1: this is lawless?

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Speaker 2: Huh? You did it?

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Speaker 1: Then we've unfortunately come back to the bad place. How

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Speaker 1: are you doing it now? Is it a threat to

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Speaker 1: your career because people have certainly told me that my

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Speaker 1: outspokenness about politics has threatened and hurt my career forever.

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Speaker 1: But I think it's my duty as a citizen.

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Speaker 2: Like, girl, what are we doing next?

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Speaker 1: Can you just give us all sort of a lay

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Speaker 1: of the land for you since twenty sixteen and how

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Speaker 1: you view it now that we've been through this once before.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot in there, there's a lot in there.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot in there. And let me start by saying,

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Speaker 2: I'm paid to do what I do.

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Speaker 3: The courage you have in doing this and waiting into

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Speaker 3: this space. This is explicitly not what you're paid to do.

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Speaker 3: So taking that leap, upsetting the apple cart of your career.

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Speaker 2: Was a huge risk.

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Speaker 3: And I'm sure it's paying off for you personally, professionally.

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Speaker 2: In all the ways, but huge, huge risk for you.

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Speaker 3: It's a risk for me because I was inside of

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Speaker 3: this establishment, both a media establishment and a political establishment

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Speaker 3: that now sees me as a trader. And there's a

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Speaker 3: physical risk because I get death threats and attempts silence

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Speaker 3: me and actual attacks. That part's not fun, but I

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Speaker 3: am this is what I'm paid to do, and I

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Speaker 3: could do it a couple of ways. I have a

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Speaker 3: lot of friends who came up like I did, and

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Speaker 3: to Si Wall, just keep going where the power is,

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Speaker 3: and I'll start justifying stuff. Stuff that I know is

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Speaker 3: not right, that I know at very least isn't conservative,

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Speaker 3: but I also know isn't right, isn't good for the country,

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Speaker 3: maybe isn't good for our party. I'll just start justifying

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Speaker 3: it because it'll help me keep my job, and it'll help

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Speaker 3: me keep my friends. It might even bring me more

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Speaker 3: money and power out of blah blah blah, lots of

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Speaker 3: people did that.

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Speaker 2: I could have decided I'm out. I don't want to

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Speaker 2: do this.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to put my hand on the hot stove.

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Speaker 3: I don't want this heat. I don't like what's going on.

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Speaker 3: But I also don't want to be at the center

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Speaker 3: of it or involved in it. I'll go do something else.

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Speaker 3: I decided to stay and say what I believed, and

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Speaker 3: it's come with professional and personal peril, but I need

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Speaker 3: to sleep at night, and I need to know, Okay,

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Speaker 3: what did I do with this platform that in a

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Speaker 3: way I lucked into What am I going to do

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Speaker 3: with it?

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Speaker 2: And how am I going to use it responsibly?

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Speaker 3: So the idea that I would justify what Trump and

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Speaker 3: then Republicans have done never crossed my mind. That option

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Speaker 3: was never a possibility for me. I couldn't do it,

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Speaker 3: and I believe so deeply in conservative principles.

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Speaker 2: And let me just say one thing.

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Speaker 3: I am grateful to Donald Trump for one reason, because

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Speaker 3: we've all had to shed some of the things that

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Speaker 3: quote unquote defined us and talk to each other like people,

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Speaker 3: like empathetic, compassionate people. You and I agree on so

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Speaker 3: much that we would not have identified eight years earlier

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Speaker 3: because we wouldn't have You were on this side, I

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Speaker 3: was on this side. I don't know that we would

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Speaker 3: have sat down for a conversation. We've had to strip

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Speaker 3: some of that away to say, what do we agree on?

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Speaker 3: There's so much and that stuff is actually so so

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Speaker 3: very important. So I you know, I've gone through many

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Speaker 3: phases in my career where I was a right wing

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Speaker 3: media darling. I moved from Fox to MSNBC. I was

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Speaker 3: the token conservative and I got the hate from the

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Speaker 3: far left. Moved to CNN, found myself being a bit

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Speaker 3: more centrist as a reaction to what was going on,

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Speaker 3: and then became you know, just from the jump anti

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Speaker 3: Trump resistance, this isn't right.

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Speaker 2: And now all the.

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Speaker 3: Hates coming from me from people I used to know.

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Speaker 3: So it's been disorienting. It's taken a toll on my

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Speaker 3: mental health. The hardest part of my career has been

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Speaker 3: the last eight years, from twenty fifteen, I guess ten

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Speaker 3: now to now, because not only has it been hard

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Speaker 3: to professionally cover the flood, the zone chaos of it,

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Speaker 3: but it's personal for me. A lot of these people

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Speaker 3: were friends and colleagues, and it's been super disorienting to

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Speaker 3: be in one place and now I'm ostracized and it's fine,

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Speaker 3: but figuring out who I.

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Speaker 2: Am, where do I belong?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: And I also had a mental breakdown, like I had

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Speaker 3: a nervous breakdown in twenty twenty one and had to

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Speaker 3: figure out do I need to do this anymore? And

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Speaker 3: can I and be healthy? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And now a word from our sponsors that I really

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Speaker 1: enjoy and I think you will too. I love how

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Speaker 1: Frank You're willing to be about so much of this

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Speaker 1: that point, especially for some reason, everyone everyone will say

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Speaker 1: to people in media, particularly women in media, oh, will

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Speaker 1: you asked for this?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Comes with a job, right.

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Speaker 1: Nobody asked for this. Nobody asked to be stocked or

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Speaker 1: rass to be threatened with death. I'm there. I actually had,

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Speaker 1: particularly during you know, the fight against him, you know,

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Speaker 1: fifteen into sixteen in the last administration, when I became

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Speaker 1: one of the major like repeats, constant articles written on

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Speaker 1: Brightbart targets. I had some friends of I would say

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Speaker 1: ours people on all sides of the political spectrum say, well,

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Speaker 1: you kind of have to wear it as a badge

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Speaker 1: of honor because if they're coming after you, it means

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Speaker 1: you're an incredibly effective messenger. You tell the truth. Well,

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Speaker 1: you're not such a policy wonk that people too now

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Speaker 1: because it's all numbers. You're communicating effectively and they don't

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Speaker 1: like it, so they want to scare you. And I said, Wow,

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Speaker 1: it's really wild that a media establishment would say we

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Speaker 1: need to attack this citizen for saying that, you know,

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Speaker 1: dictatorship tactics or dictatorship tactics by making crazy people want

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Speaker 1: to kill her.

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Speaker 2: Ye, And you've been there, and I.

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Speaker 1: Have certainly had to learn to deal with anxiety. I

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Speaker 1: have had to learn to deal with terror. I have

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Speaker 1: made excellent friends in many arenas of local and federal

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Speaker 1: law enforcement. It is so it's so crazy to have

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Speaker 1: to learn to navigate those things. And I know what

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Speaker 1: it's like to not want to leave my house. How

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Speaker 1: are you? I admire that you're able to just tell

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Speaker 1: it like it is, and I admire that you're willing

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Speaker 1: to talk about it and be honest. So what does

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Speaker 1: in your definition, what does a nervous breakdown look like?

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Speaker 1: How do you realize it's happening? And how do you

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Speaker 1: get on the other side of it? Because there are

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Speaker 1: people at home who I know are desperate to understand

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Speaker 1: this better.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I do too, And it's why I talk about

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Speaker 3: it a lot, because when you talk about it, it

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Speaker 3: gets easier to talk about it, and talking about it

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Speaker 3: is the first barrier to getting mental health help. Yah,

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Speaker 3: So talking about it is paramount for me. It was

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, and it's not like one thing happened.

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Speaker 3: I had been an anxious person, unknowingly for most of

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Speaker 3: my life, and as such, I had created habits that

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Speaker 3: I thought were keeping me safe. They were not catastrophizing,

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Speaker 3: which is you know, I would do this all day.

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Speaker 2: I would occupy.

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Speaker 3: My brain with the worst thing that could happen at

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Speaker 3: any given second. So if I'm driving, it's a car accident.

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Speaker 3: If my son's at school, it's something happening at school.

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Speaker 3: But it would at its worst, it would be twenty

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Speaker 3: four seven. And it was emotionally, physically, mentally exhausting. But

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Speaker 3: I told myself, if I don't do that, it'll happen.

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Speaker 3: The bad thing will happen. So then I was bargaining

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Speaker 3: with my anxiety, making deals with my anxiety. If I

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Speaker 3: do this to myself, it won't actually happen. And I

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Speaker 3: didn't realize I didn't process that I was doing this,

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Speaker 3: and I, in fact thought, this is what responsible people do.

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Speaker 3: They are constantly thinking about what could go wrong, preparing.

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Speaker 3: Doesn't everyone go into a restaurant and look for all

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Speaker 3: the exits, you know, just stuff that I thought was like,

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Speaker 3: I'm a responsible this is adulting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: By the time, you know.

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Speaker 3: I'd been doing this for a very long time to

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Speaker 3: myself and other awful habits too, my body said enough.

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Speaker 3: One day, I had an anxiety attack in public.

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Speaker 2: Went home.

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Speaker 3: My vision was I couldn't see very well, I couldn't

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Speaker 3: hear very well. Things were jumbled. I laid in bed

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Speaker 3: for about three days. I couldn't focus on anything. I

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Speaker 3: didn't understand. I'd turned on the TV. I didn't understand

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Speaker 3: like the news. I was instantly very sad, and I

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Speaker 3: had not been like depressed or anything.

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Speaker 2: I was overwhelmed. Yeah, and the good news is it

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Speaker 2: was so severe and debilitating. I knew I needed help

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Speaker 2: right away.

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Speaker 3: And so there was no like I'll sleep this off

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Speaker 3: or I'll take a break. This was what is happening

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Speaker 3: to me, and I need help today.

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Speaker 2: So I did. I got several doctors, embarked on.

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Speaker 3: A therapy journey, a medication journey, and for the past

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Speaker 3: four years I've been in therapy to deal with this

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Speaker 3: severe anxiety that is at its worst totally took over

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Speaker 3: my life. I didn't know you didn't have to live

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Speaker 3: that way. And so my message is always talk about it,

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Speaker 3: because if I had known some of the habits, some

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Speaker 3: of the tricks we did as anxious people, I might

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Speaker 3: have gotten help earlier, before I was twenty years into

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Speaker 3: these habits when it's so hard to unlearn them. Yes,

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Speaker 3: and I'm writing a book now about anxiety, and it's

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Speaker 3: about my journey to learn how to live without anxiety

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Speaker 3: because I learned to live with it really well. I

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Speaker 3: got great at it, of course, right, but and it's addicting.

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Speaker 2: It can be addicting.

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Speaker 1: Well, what it does, even just in your body hormonally,

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Speaker 1: when you are constantly in fight or flight and you

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Speaker 1: are pumping adrenaline exactly right when you start to stop

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Speaker 1: doing that, you're exhausted because you're feeling the exhaustion of

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Speaker 1: the four years that you've been running on pure adrenaline

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Speaker 1: that you've essentially been over caffeinated, and you're feeling the

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Speaker 1: exhaustion of a body that is missing something that's been

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Speaker 1: keeping it in forward motion. It kind of feels like

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Speaker 1: you get hit by a bus, yeah daily, start to

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Speaker 1: not be a level ten anxious person all the time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's part of what's so important to

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Speaker 1: talk about as well, is what it feels like to

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Speaker 1: heal and how healing can sometimes be the beginning of

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Speaker 1: it's painful, very And I think it's part of why

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Speaker 1: I admire the way that you talk about this. It's

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Speaker 1: part of why you know, I have chosen to be

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Speaker 1: very frank about what it was like to leave a

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Speaker 1: workplace that was very toxic and violent for me because

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Speaker 1: it was making me so sick, and what it took

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Speaker 1: to recuperate from that, and and the sort of aha

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Speaker 1: moment I had when I finally said I'm at a

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Speaker 1: breaking point and people who I'd been asking to help

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Speaker 1: me change it for four years, when we had no idea,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, what have you not been listening?

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Speaker 1: A and then B I had to look inward and go, oh,

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Speaker 1: how has my adrenaline pump been masking how bad?

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Speaker 2: This is exactly right, and.

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Speaker 1: It it's weird because it's all the things, particularly as

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Speaker 1: women in these competitive industries and these very cutthroat spaces

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Speaker 1: that you get rewarded for. You're such a good soldier,

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Speaker 1: you're such a good tugboat, you're never tired, you're you're

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Speaker 1: a good troop leader. They like to use a lot

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Speaker 1: of like military terminology with us about how tough you are,

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Speaker 1: and you know that old like.

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Speaker 2: You're not like the other girls.

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Speaker 1: And then you're like, oh, wow, that's patriarchy. That's trying

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Speaker 1: to kill us all, including you. Cool, but it takes

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Speaker 1: a while to realize, Oh, those things that I used

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Speaker 1: to wear like a badge of honor have been doing

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Speaker 1: such harm to me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go back to what you said earlier.

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Speaker 1: I love watching you nod because again people are going

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Speaker 1: to be like, well, you guys wouldn't agree on anything,

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Speaker 1: and we're sitting here going we agree on so much, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: including how detrimental some of these systems are, including as

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Speaker 1: you said, things have been stripped away. We can't deny

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Speaker 1: what toxicity is. We can't deny how upended our cysams are.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's that great I don't know if it's

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Speaker 1: a meme or a phrase or whatever we want to

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Speaker 1: call it. When they go around Instagram. I don't know

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Speaker 1: how they get redefined, but where people say, you know,

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Speaker 1: you can't claim to be the party of small government

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Speaker 1: and tell people who they can love, where where, and

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Speaker 1: how they can live, how they can dress, what they

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Speaker 1: can read, what they you know, where they can get

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Speaker 1: safe water and where not like the list, you can't

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Speaker 1: say that you know. And then somebody said, well, now

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Speaker 1: you have to add you can't claim to be, you know,

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Speaker 1: the party of limited government and have created twenty five

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Speaker 1: percent of the entire national debt in four years in

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Speaker 1: the country that's existed for two ald and fifty. How

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Speaker 1: do you you know you're talking about the personal realigning,

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Speaker 1: you know, clicking things into place in a healthier way.

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Speaker 1: How as someone who did come up on the conservative

427
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Speaker 1: end of this pendulums, how have you begun to click

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Speaker 1: things back into authentic reality? And say, is anybody going

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Speaker 1: to pay attention to the difference between what we say

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Speaker 1: and what we do? Because everybody out there, particularly people

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Speaker 1: who listen to my podcast, like they know what I

432
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Speaker 1: think about this stuff. For you making sense of this.

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Speaker 3: Stuff, No, that's been the trickiest part because I can

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Speaker 3: scream at the top of my lungs like, none of

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Speaker 3: this is conservatism as I learned it, and the conservatism

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Speaker 3: that I came up on, you wouldn't dislike. You might

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Speaker 3: disagree with some policies, but it's very inclusive.

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Speaker 1: Okay, before you move on to now, can you tell

439
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 1: me how you defined it in the space and place

440
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: you came up.

441
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 3: Things you just said, lowering the debt and deficit, limited government,

442
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 3: small g government. That's what I was for. The government

443
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 3: should not be in the business of telling you how

444
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 3: to live your life. That's how I was a supporter

445
00:25:58,160 --> 00:25:59,919
Speaker 3: of gay rights from a child.

446
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 2: I grew up in ballet.

447
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 3: But but in my political career, long before a lot

448
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 3: of Democrats, in fact, were I've I've always been in

449
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 3: favor of gay rights because I believed in limited government.

450
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 3: I'm pro life. All that means is I won't go

451
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 3: out and get an abortion. I've that's that's my personal choice.

452
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 3: I've always supported Roe v. Wade and having that as

453
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 3: an option for women. Who am I to tell you

454
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 3: what to do or what not to do. I would

455
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 3: never I'm not religious, so that it doesn't come from

456
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 3: any kind of religious ideology or anything like that.

457
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 1: That that feels like an important thing, just to I

458
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 1: love a little asterisk in a moment like that. It's

459
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 1: it's irony. It's ironic to me that the religious right

460
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 1: weaponized abortion as an issue. You know, six years after

461
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 1: the passage of jobs, they never cared, but once they

462
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 1: lost their last appeal on UH trying to uphold segregation,

463
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: they decided they needed a new cause. The deepest irony

464
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: of this, as a kid who grew up in a

465
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: house with two religions in LA and thought I should

466
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,479
Speaker 1: probably study more to understand why people fight over this

467
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: is that the only mention of abortion in the Bible

468
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 1: is how to. Yeah, so technically it's a pro abortion text,

469
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 1: but you know, we'll leave that for another time.

470
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. I know, it's a lot, it's it's all fraught. Yeah.

471
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 3: But my version of conservatism coming up was I think

472
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 3: you'd look at it even then and say, Okay, this

473
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 3: is I understand this, and this person isn't foreign to me,

474
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 3: isn't a monster. It was a compassionate conservatism. I believed

475
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 3: in social safety nets and reducing poverty and things that

476
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 3: now are are so identified by today's Republican Party as

477
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 3: woke and weak. You know, to me, it was very

478
00:27:55,840 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 3: normal and not scary, and our difference is policy. We

479
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,360
Speaker 3: could identify similar problems, but we'd come at it from

480
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 3: different policy solutions. Now it's not just that I'm screaming

481
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 3: this is not conservative. Do you care anymore that this

482
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 3: is not conservative? Because they clearly don't know. It's the

483
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 3: thing that you were saying, the intellectual honesty, the consistency,

484
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 3: the hypocrisy.

485
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 2: You just said this was.

486
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 3: Fine, and now it's not fine because it's your guy

487
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 3: or their guy. You just said this was awful, but

488
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 3: it's okay if our guy does it. I mean, this

489
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 3: stuff makes me want to light my hair on fire.

490
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 3: It's designed to it's designed to make you just want

491
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 3: to say, gad. I'm tuning it all out, like I

492
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 3: can't even make sense of it. Unfortunately I can't tune

493
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 3: it out. That's my job to make sense of it.

494
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 3: But that's been the disorienting part. It's like I'm going

495
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 3: like this every day?

496
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 2: Is this thing on? Does anyone listen?

497
00:28:54,440 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 3: Does anyone care about forget jettison conservatism? I know y'all

498
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 3: don't care about that anymore. Do we care about intellectual honesty,

499
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 3: consistency and aiocracy? No? I don't think we do. So

500
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 3: I'm on a very lonely island. I'm not the only one.

501
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 3: There are lots of folks, you know, occupying the space

502
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 3: that I occupy now, but it's a very isolating place

503
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 3: to be in, having come from a place where I had,

504
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 3: you know, a big team, lots of friends, lots of colleagues,

505
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 3: lots of fans. We were all united in a purpose

506
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 3: and had a common goal.

507
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 2: We don't even speak the same language anymore.

508
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: And now for our sponsors, there used to seem to

509
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: be a willingness to say, hold on, we're getting a

510
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: little too hysterical in the ways we're fighting. We need

511
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: to be factual. And now you know, you've got defenders

512
00:29:55,360 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: of the modern day Republicans. I'll call them the Trump Trumpers,

513
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 1: I guess, because I understand that's not what the Republican

514
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: Party has been. But you know, you've got one of

515
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 1: his defenders on CNN today claiming that Elon Musk did

516
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: not throw up not one but two Heyle Hitler's, which

517
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: we know he did, which you know, the images of

518
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: which that are being disseminated in Germany as people call,

519
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: you know, ring the alarm bells. People are being charged

520
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: with crimes in Germany just for showing the images because

521
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: they're so violent there for the law. And you know,

522
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: he said this.

523
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 2: Trutherism around it. I saw it and I know you're

524
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 2: talking about and I was like.

525
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, are we tokenizing the truth like that? Can't

526
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: be it. You know, you see an RFK go crazy

527
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: about the polio vaccine. You can't say it doesn't work.

528
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: You cannot. There's no fact, an alternative fact. And conway

529
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: there there are concrete facts, right, and we have to

530
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: we have to assess, as you said, social services based

531
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: on human health, health outcomes CDC data, success of social

532
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: service programs. Should they not be working, should they be inefficient?

533
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 1: Let's make them more efficient, Let's not light them all

534
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: on fire.

535
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 3: But that's that is the desire of a lot of

536
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 3: people on the far right now, is destruction.

537
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 2: That is a nihilism. Well, I think for some people

538
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 2: it's fun.

539
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 3: But for others there's a contingent that thinks our government

540
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 3: is broken.

541
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 2: Both sides in establishment parties.

542
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 3: Were ineffective, and there's some truth to the ineffectiveness of

543
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 3: our establishment politics. Of course, the answer isn't lighting it

544
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 3: all on fire, which I mean, just take today and

545
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 3: Trump's immediate dissolution of federal grants, federal grants that are

546
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 3: obligated and already awarded that then have to be paid

547
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 3: out with no concern for what happens next.

548
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 2: And it was the same thing with Dobbs. There was

549
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 2: no overturning. Dobs had no Okay, what comes next?

550
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,959
Speaker 3: How do we then provide for the millions of people

551
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 3: who are just going to be left with nowhere to go,

552
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 3: nothing to do. There's no thought of that. And for Trump,

553
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 3: I think there's fun in the chaos and this idea

554
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 3: that like, I'm going to do it the law, figure

555
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 3: out the legality later, whether it's legal or not, I

556
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 3: don't care.

557
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 2: I'm going to do it.

558
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 3: And I'm daring you to challenge me, because we all

559
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 3: know what that looks like by now, and it's rough.

560
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 2: It's rough.

561
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: The that phrase fun in the chaos really strikes me

562
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: because what it seems to be again as a person

563
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: who's you know, job, like the way I pay my

564
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: bills is not working. In politics, I've been a political

565
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: volunteer for over twenty years. People love to come at

566
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: me and say, how much money are you making for this?

567
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: None I spend my own money to do this right,

568
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: and I've lost quite a few, you know, the pretty

569
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: sort of endorsement deals that happen in the line of work.

570
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: I don't get those big ones because I won't stop

571
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: saying words like abortion.

572
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 2: And exactly on your P and L sheep, this is

573
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 2: an L for you.

574
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: It's a big L. But it matters to me because

575
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:30,959
Speaker 1: that's what I'm going to I'm going to sell us

576
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 1: out to I don't know, advertise something for what. And

577
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: I think what's hard for me is not only that

578
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 1: there seems to be glee in the chaos. There seems

579
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:49,719
Speaker 1: to be this energy of retribution, this joy in harming people,

580
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: because not only have you overturned jobs and have you

581
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: put the lives of women around the country at risk.

582
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: I have friends who, you know, my friend Amanda Zarofski

583
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: lost her fallopian tube. She may never be able to

584
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: be a mom because they wouldn't give her a DNC

585
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: after a miscarriage because she'd crossed the line. I mean

586
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:14,919
Speaker 1: things that are just so appalling. Yeah, the suffering. They

587
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 1: know people are suffering and they don't care. And then

588
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: when we say you seem to enjoy this, they say

589
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 1: of course we don't enjoy it. We're standing up for families.

590
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,720
Speaker 1: And then they propose cutting twelve billion dollars in school

591
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: lunch assistance. Right that they know is where so many

592
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: children in our country get their only guaranteed meal on

593
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:40,280
Speaker 1: a weekday, kids that go hungry, and they are sitting

594
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: here saying not all those kids deserve to eat.

595
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 2: It's worse than that.

596
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 3: I saw someone on a congressman on CNN today who

597
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 3: was asked, you know, what would you tell kids who

598
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 3: get a lot of their nutrition? And I work in

599
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 3: child hunger as well. I'm ambassador for no kid hungry,

600
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 3: so I work in this space. She said, what would

601
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 3: you tell a kid who gets boodh assistance from programs

602
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 3: like Snap? And he said, well, when I was a kid,

603
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 3: I had a paper route and then I got a job.

604
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 3: And she said, we're talking about like five year olds.

605
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 3: You're not telling a five year old to get a job.

606
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 3: There's this sort of cavalier, blase, go work for it

607
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 3: attitude where there's not only no attempt to see the

608
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 3: humanside of what's happening, there is total resistance to that.

609
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 3: Do not show me the face of suffering people, do

610
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 3: not show me the cost. I don't want to know.

611
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 2: I don't care.

612
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 3: That's how it is feeling as I watch again people

613
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 3: I know inside MAGA operate where the cruelty is the

614
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 3: point and the punishment is the point. In a lot

615
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 3: of cases, it's really hard for me to justify. But

616
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 3: like I said, compassion is now weak, social safety nets

617
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 3: are now woke. This isn't how I was brought up,

618
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 3: either by my parents or in politics. And it's just

619
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:12,399
Speaker 3: so nihilistic, yes, that this is how you must act.

620
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 1: Now what bothers me too about this idea that our

621
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 1: social safety nets are woke? These are supposed to be

622
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: smart business people, right, Yeah, And look, I'm not a

623
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 1: billionaire business person. I am very aware no matter how

624
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 1: many times Donald Trump, who was playing with his name

625
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 1: on it, calls me and my friends the elite, I'm

626
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 1: way closer to being homeless tomorrow than I am ever

627
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 1: being a billionaire.

628
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,240
Speaker 2: Like that's just the stats. Yeah, and.

629
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,240
Speaker 1: This man is supposed to be a smart business person.

630
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 1: Now what I know from my years of you know,

631
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 1: making some small little like angel investments in that world,

632
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: right business investing, You would never invest in a company

633
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: that you were not expecting to get some version of

634
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 1: a return too, And yes, sure, sometimes an investment it

635
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: doesn't work, sometimes it does. The ideas that it's going

636
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 1: to work better than it doesn't, the idea that the

637
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:10,359
Speaker 1: American people are supposed to pay taxes into these United States.

638
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: The whole point of being in the United States is

639
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 1: because the United States provides for its people, your roads,

640
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: the street lights in your city, your drinking water. We

641
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 1: pay into infrastructure, and the return on our investment is

642
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: to be able to live theoretically in a country where

643
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: you're not gonna get t boned because all the lights

644
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 1: are out, and you're not going to get listeria from

645
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: your drinking water, and you're not going to see people

646
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 1: be abused for other rich people's.

647
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 2: Enjoyment or their enjoyment.

648
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, like social safety nets are our return on the

649
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: investment of our taxes, and they've somehow made it seem

650
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,919
Speaker 1: like nobody should get a free ride. It's not about

651
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: a free ride. If your neighbors lost their job and

652
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: was hungry, you'd invite them over for dinner, hoping they

653
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 1: would do it for you. It's just like, it's the

654
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 1: whole point of being in a society. You don't want

655
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:11,800
Speaker 1: to live in a society. I'm like, Okay, move to

656
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 1: antarcticle and live off the grid and see how long

657
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 1: you survive.

658
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I mean it used to be we we

659
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,800
Speaker 3: could have conversations about how to solve these endemic problems.

660
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 3: And on the right, I might say, yes, people are hungry,

661
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 3: but how are we going to pay for it? And

662
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 3: on the left you might say, people are hungry, it

663
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 3: doesn't matter, like we just need to feed them. We'd

664
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 3: come together over some version of a compromise that would

665
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,399
Speaker 3: do all the things, it would be paid for. We'd

666
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 3: figure that part out. Because you don't think about how

667
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 3: it's paid for it you run out of resources and money. Yeah,

668
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 3: but you also feed the hungry people because they are

669
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 3: in the immediate need. We don't even agree on the

670
00:38:54,880 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 3: problems anymore, let alone the solutions, because me even caring

671
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 3: about the problem.

672
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 2: Makes me a snow spoken week.

673
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 3: Yeah right, So it's it's it's an upside down, and

674
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 3: it's a crazy world, and a very very scary and

675
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 3: sad cynical political world that Maga is creating.

676
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,280
Speaker 2: It's very cynical, deeply deeply cynical.

677
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: So I'm curious because you wrote something, you know, in

678
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: reference to in twenty twenty voting for President Biden, and

679
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 1: you talked about how there's this quote of yours that

680
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 1: I love, you said, cloaking it. You know, their extremism

681
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 1: as patriotism or conservativism is just a lie. I think

682
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,839
Speaker 1: there are enough good conservatives to see through that, even

683
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: in Congress, but there's certainly been a lack of courage

684
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: to call out people like the Marjorie Taylor Greens of

685
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: the Mega world. And you spoke about the courage of

686
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: Liz Change, you know, her standing up for American values,

687
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,399
Speaker 1: and you talked about how in a silent vote her

688
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 1: fellow congress people voted to keep her in leadership, but

689
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 1: that your hunch was if the vote was not silent,

690
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 1: it wouldn't have gone that way. We got that now. Yeah,

691
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 1: now the votes are not silent. They're out loud. You know,

692
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:24,280
Speaker 1: you've got JD. Vance talk essentially referring to women as cattle,

693
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: saying or it's our job to be pregnant, and you know,

694
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: them blowing up everything, education, cancer research, all of it.

695
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: I know the chaos is the point because they want us,

696
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 1: they want us, and as I feel right now, I

697
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: want to take a deep breath and cry, and I'm

698
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: sure people let them listening do to I promise we're

699
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 1: gonna We're going to add a little spark of hope here.

700
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,240
Speaker 1: I know this is their goal to make us tired

701
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 1: and to make us go in right, you've seen this playbook,

702
00:40:55,400 --> 00:41:01,879
Speaker 1: how do you think about conserving your energy and think

703
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 1: about how to strategically fight back.

704
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,800
Speaker 3: It's really tough because you can drive yourself crazy, and

705
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 3: again that's what they want.

706
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 2: They want you to get tired.

707
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 3: They want you to be afraid of speaking and doing

708
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 3: what you do.

709
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 2: And listen.

710
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 3: It's not for everyone, and I don't judge people who

711
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 3: say I can't do it anymore. And I know a

712
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 3: lot of people both in media and politics who've decided

713
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 3: I cannot do this anymore. It is awful for my

714
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 3: mental health. I completely understand that. I've had those conversations

715
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 3: with myself, like is this worth it? But I have

716
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 3: found ways, over years of therapy to continue doing what

717
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:50,240
Speaker 3: I deeply love, which is journalism, asking questions, holding powerful

718
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 3: people accountable, without letting it take over my life and

719
00:41:56,719 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 3: my mental health. And that's been hard, but I've set boundaries.

720
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 3: I mean, I used to turn on CNN. Let me

721
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 3: start over. I never turned off CNN. I would fall

722
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 3: asleep to it, I would wake up to it. It

723
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,839
Speaker 3: would be on all day and by osmosis it would

724
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 3: you know, I would just get off. That's not necessary, right,

725
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,720
Speaker 3: I mean, for one, most hours of cable news repeat

726
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 3: the same stories.

727
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 2: Two, I can read the news, and.

728
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 3: It's a very different effect than watching it, especially watching

729
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 3: two people yell at each other or argue about something. Right,

730
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,879
Speaker 3: there are other ways to consume news and do my job,

731
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 3: and so I really started looking at that, how I

732
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 3: consume the news and how I moved.

733
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 2: Through the world that I live in.

734
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 3: You know, doing philanthropic work is a thing that helps

735
00:42:55,840 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 3: me escape the feeling of hopelessness and pointlessness, Like I

736
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 3: am pointless and what I'm doing in my professional life

737
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:08,760
Speaker 3: means nothing. Go and do a little philanthropy. I volunteered

738
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 3: a shelter almost every other week. You find meaning in

739
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 3: very small things that can counterbalance the meaningless feeling you

740
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 3: have as a fighter, as an activist, as an advocate,

741
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 3: you have to find meaning and value in other things.

742
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 3: And I've had to make myself feel less identified by

743
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 3: my job as I once did. Maybe you've gone through

744
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 3: this too, where you felt so identified not just by

745
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 3: your job, but who you worked for and the show

746
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 3: you were on and the network I work for. I

747
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,320
Speaker 3: mean so identified proudly.

748
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:51,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

749
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 3: Kind of creating some separation from that is scary but

750
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 3: also really liberating to say, wait a second, a whole

751
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 3: person without any of these trappings around me. I'm a whole,

752
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 3: valuable person. It's a recentering, and it takes a it

753
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:16,439
Speaker 3: takes a while, it's not an overnight thing, but man,

754
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:20,240
Speaker 3: has it saved my life. Literally, it has saved my life.

755
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: We'll be back in just a minute after a few

756
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:31,720
Speaker 1: words from our favorite sponsors. I think this happens to everyone.

757
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 1: You know, everybody's got one of these in their pockets.

758
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,280
Speaker 1: Like we're all we're all on screen all the time,

759
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: but particularly for people whose jobs exist on screen. Whether

760
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: you realize it or not, you become a two dimensional person,

761
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: but we live three dimensional lives.

762
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the.

763
00:44:53,960 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: Flattening and the reduction of your humanity can be really toxic.

764
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,760
Speaker 1: And I think you're right. The more we lean into

765
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 1: our expansion, the more we build community. Like the way

766
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: I am dealing with this is giving myself thirty minutes

767
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 1: to read the news every day and then having conversations

768
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 1: like this one, calling other folks, starting more group chats,

769
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 1: figuring out where do we volunteer our time, what do

770
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 1: we do? I mean, even the last couple of weeks

771
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 1: in la As, you know, it's been so traumatizing to

772
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 1: watch a city go through what we've been going through.

773
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 1: And it's also been the most inspiring thing because everyone

774
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: has shown up. We have been packing suitcases, we have

775
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: been delivering waters, we have been gathering donations, we have

776
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 1: been organizing, you know, behind the scenes, from telethons to

777
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: fundraisers to it has been like a full time job

778
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 1: and everyone's not everything to do it to show up

779
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: for community. And we are doing this no matter what

780
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:06,439
Speaker 1: the guy in the White House is saying, right, and

781
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 1: it's meaning because you can't take it away, find it.

782
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 1: There's so many of us, right, and we're going to

783
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,800
Speaker 1: have to lean on each other, you know. And I wonder,

784
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:21,280
Speaker 1: is it that sort of desire for that three dimensional life,

785
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: for that community based experience that led you to the

786
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:29,320
Speaker 1: new podcast, Because clearly I love having a good conversation

787
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 1: with someone, and when I was like, wait a second,

788
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 1: a commentator is saying, I want to do a podcast.

789
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 2: That isn't just about the news, Like he piqued.

790
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: My interest in such a cool way. What was the

791
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: impetus for you to say I want to go beyond

792
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 1: the job and into the personal.

793
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 3: Well, I'm so glad it speaks your interest because and

794
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 3: that's exactly what it was. I need it in this

795
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 3: project of mine where I'm trying to find the non

796
00:46:57,719 --> 00:46:58,320
Speaker 3: political me.

797
00:46:58,480 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 2: Who is that?

798
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 3: The non CNN personality me, right, the three D me?

799
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 3: Because as you say, like I, you know, you feel

800
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,760
Speaker 3: like an avatar because that's how people see you. After

801
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 3: a while in that project, I had to challenge myself,

802
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 3: what are my other interests? And man, I'd forgotten them.

803
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:27,399
Speaker 3: I'd forgotten that I had interests before politics and my job.

804
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 3: And I Heart came to me and said, we want

805
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 3: you to do a podcast and we don't care what

806
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 3: it's about. I said, oh, you mean it doesn't have

807
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 3: to be political. You don't just see me as a

808
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 3: political person. Yes, And to their credit and I'm so grateful,

809
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,280
Speaker 3: they said, no, what do you want to talk about?

810
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 3: And I said, well, the most important thing to me

811
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 3: right now is mental health. But I don't want like

812
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 3: a mental health podcast, because I'm not an expert in

813
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 3: mental health and I don't want to pretend to have

814
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 3: all the answers I do not, But I would love

815
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 3: to create a space where mental health naturally and normally

816
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 3: can come up, if it's so desires right.

817
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 2: So I said, I want to talk.

818
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 3: To really interesting people, people I admire, and you know,

819
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 3: I love creative arts. So I talk to creative people,

820
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 3: actors and comedians and artists and singers, and I want

821
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 3: to ask them about their lives, their careers, their hobbies.

822
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 3: In it a space where mental health can come up

823
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:42,240
Speaker 3: as they've confronted challenges, loss, love, et cetera.

824
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 2: And iHeart said, do it, go do it.

825
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 3: And I can't tell you how grateful I am for this,

826
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:53,399
Speaker 3: both professionally because it is an escape from the other

827
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 3: stuff that I do, but personally how much I don't

828
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 3: want to get emotional, but how much I needed this

829
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 3: in my life to be able to have conversations with

830
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 3: people about how they're feeling, yeah, about mental health and

831
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 3: me sharing you know, I used to do this, and

832
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 3: someone on the other side of the conversation saying, oh

833
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 3: my god, a light bulb just went out when just

834
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 3: went off when you said that.

835
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 2: And I didn't know I was doing that.

836
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 3: Yes, Oh my gosh, that moment of connection or someone

837
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:28,799
Speaker 3: saying to me, you know what, I used to do

838
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 3: that too. Here's a great tip for you. Yes, having

839
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:40,919
Speaker 3: those epiphanies and remembering our shared humanity h has been

840
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 3: such a gift that I needed so badly.

841
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 2: So listen. If this if off the cup, if this

842
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 2: podcast goes.

843
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 3: Away tomorrow, I'll be sad. But it's been It's been

844
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 3: such a gift for me.

845
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 1: I please, a I'm a crier. Never apologize for me,

846
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 1: and be the way when you say a light bulb

847
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 1: went off, like the way I feel seen by what

848
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 1: you just said. Because similarly in twenty nineteen, and I

849
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 1: know we're gonna have to do it again. I sat

850
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 1: in a room full of women like you and me,

851
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,759
Speaker 1: from every walk of life, who grew up in every

852
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 1: you know kind of family, and you know, none of

853
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 1: them look the same like this amazing group of women.

854
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 1: I can't even believe I'm going to say this. I've

855
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 1: told the story before, but never to you. I went

856
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: to journalism school and like twenty year old me in

857
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:38,360
Speaker 1: class at USC Enburgh would die to know that I

858
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 1: get to tell this story. I'm sitting in Glorious Steinem's

859
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 1: living room in New York, Okay, with this amazing group

860
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 1: of women talking about what the fuck we're gonna do

861
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 1: with this country that is making money off hating women.

862
00:50:51,840 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 1: And I was like, this, this conversation, I wish everyone

863
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 1: could hear it. And it was the reason I decided

864
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 1: to start work in progress because I realized I get

865
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 1: to be in rooms like that. I get to sit

866
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 1: with a friend of mine who is the most unbelievable

867
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 1: scientist who worked at Project argists who helped identify emerging

868
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:19,240
Speaker 1: pandemics around the world, who has a master's in emerging

869
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 1: infectious diseases. And I got to call her when we

870
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 1: first heard a rumor about this you know thing, starting

871
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:28,439
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, like I just started to realize

872
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:30,400
Speaker 1: I had all these amazing people I could talk to

873
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 1: about health, about science, about parenting, about relationships, about fertility,

874
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:42,879
Speaker 1: about politics, about writing, about and like, we need all

875
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 1: of it. We need all of that impact and input

876
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 1: in our lives. And so I don't think it's an

877
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:55,840
Speaker 1: accident that so many of us who want more good

878
00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 1: people to be connected wind up in spaces like this, right.

879
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:02,879
Speaker 2: I think that's so.

880
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:09,280
Speaker 3: True, and your world opens up, which is so lovely

881
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 3: and wonderful because you start to.

882
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 2: Believe your two dimensional.

883
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 3: At a point, you start to believe it, this is

884
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 3: all there is to me. And when you open that

885
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:24,359
Speaker 3: door to other people, you remember, oh, gosh, no, I'm

886
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 3: really turned on by this thing or that thing, or

887
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:33,800
Speaker 3: hearing this story or this kind of creative air arena

888
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 3: that I don't get to play in. I'm really I'm

889
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 3: really stimulated by these conversations or whatever it is, or

890
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 3: I'm learning so much about navigating the world.

891
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:47,719
Speaker 2: When you know, Henry Winkler tells me, I thought.

892
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 3: Everyone was going to call me after Happy Days, and

893
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 3: no one called, and I didn't know who I was

894
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 3: going to be after that.

895
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:57,479
Speaker 2: And then he tells me what he did.

896
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,839
Speaker 3: And here's what you're gonna do, Sie, because you're you're

897
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 3: smart and you're ambitious, and you're gonna do this.

898
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 2: You're going to figure it out.

899
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:07,799
Speaker 3: I mean, who would have thought I'd get some of

900
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 3: the best career advice in my life from the Fonds, Right,

901
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 3: But yeah, I don't know unless you open that door. Yeah,

902
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:23,399
Speaker 3: and opening the door to so many people. Oh, it's

903
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:27,279
Speaker 3: been so enriching and rewarding. And it doesn't mean we

904
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:29,799
Speaker 3: have to agree on everything. I don't know when that

905
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 3: became a requirement of a friendship.

906
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 2: Or or anything.

907
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 3: But when you focus on the stuff you do agree on,

908
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 3: you focus on the stuff that's great or hard, or

909
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 3: who are we as people, it's really rewarding and fulfilling.

910
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:48,840
Speaker 3: And that has been something I have missed in my

911
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:53,759
Speaker 3: professional life. It is not felt fulfilling and rewarding. It's

912
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 3: felt like a job. So yeah, love these kinds of

913
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 3: conversations like you so much more than I like talking

914
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 3: politics these days, honestly.

915
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:07,439
Speaker 2: Yeah.

916
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:11,800
Speaker 1: Well, and I think what's really what's really cool about

917
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 1: it is in a way, when you can leave the

918
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 1: thing you've always had to do, you know, for you,

919
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 1: when you can stretch past talking politics, you can kind

920
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 1: of re encompass the personal and then be fueled again

921
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 1: for the political, because everything is political, and that can

922
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 1: be daunting and exhausting, and it's especially more exhausting if

923
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 1: you're not showing up to those political fights with your

924
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 1: personal fuel. The people you care about, the people you

925
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:49,760
Speaker 1: want to carry into rooms, the kids, you want to defend,

926
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:52,719
Speaker 1: you know, don't really on no kid hungry, like you

927
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:56,879
Speaker 1: have to have that to sustain the other part. And yeah,

928
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 1: I think anytime we get to kind of reach out

929
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 1: and go have more of ourselves and our communities.

930
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it helps.

931
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:04,400
Speaker 1: Well.

932
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, politics is for people.

933
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 3: It's about people, right, We're not governing systems, we're governing

934
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 3: people and trying to solve people's problems. If you don't

935
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 3: come at politics with your own personal lived experience and

936
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:26,719
Speaker 3: those shared experiences of other people, and whether those are

937
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:32,280
Speaker 3: your kids, your parents, your friends, your colleagues, your teachers,

938
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 3: who are you doing it for? What's it for? I mean,

939
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 3: then you're just kind of a technocrat, right, You're just

940
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:41,359
Speaker 3: here to cross t's and dot i's and we need

941
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:43,839
Speaker 3: those people too. But that's certainly not why I got

942
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 3: into politics. I got into it because of people. And

943
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 3: I just find that that's so missing from most political

944
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 3: conversations that you see sort of modeled on cable news.

945
00:55:55,920 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 3: We've forgotten about the people that are being impacted, people

946
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:02,879
Speaker 3: who are meant to be helped by this.

947
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:05,840
Speaker 2: What is this helping people? Is this solving problems?

948
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 3: We've forgotten it's so performative now and again it feels gross.

949
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:14,520
Speaker 3: It feels really gross and moralizing.

950
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:18,399
Speaker 1: And I think because we're expected to be reachable all

951
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 1: the time, we're expected to know everything all the time,

952
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 1: to have an opinion about things immediately, all of these things,

953
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:27,400
Speaker 1: it keeps you kind of running faster than your legs

954
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 1: can carry you. And so you miss you miss things,

955
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 1: You miss nuance, you miss personal time and anything that

956
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 1: can help you slow down and analyze a bit. Yeah,

957
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:45,320
Speaker 1: which is what happens in good conversation. A light bulb

958
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 1: goes off, you share a resource, you make a new connection.

959
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:56,840
Speaker 1: And I guess I'm realizing as we're talking this stuff

960
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 1: is what I hope we all, you and I and

961
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 1: every when at home listening. Yeah, this is what I

962
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:06,279
Speaker 1: hope we remember to do and cling to as we

963
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:11,280
Speaker 1: enter into another four years of this is to listen

964
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:18,240
Speaker 1: to each other and to be curious and investigate things

965
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:24,040
Speaker 1: so that we can be more three dimensional as we

966
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:31,320
Speaker 1: walk into being together defending each other all of these things.

967
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and politics generally doesn't want you to be three dimensional.

968
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 3: It wants to put you in a box and know

969
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 3: exactly who you are and how you're defined and you're

970
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 3: over here, and you're over here, or you look like this,

971
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:47,480
Speaker 3: or you look like that. It's designed to strip all

972
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 3: of your dimensionality away from you.

973
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 2: You are not meant to be nuanced.

974
00:57:55,160 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 3: Or complicated, right, So, yeah, advocating for that three dimensionality

975
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 3: and that idea that I'm not just the letter next

976
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 3: to my name. I'm not just a political party or

977
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 3: some sort of identity politics thing for you to use.

978
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 2: Yes, that's the fight.

979
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 3: That's the fight, you know, of a lifetime trying trying

980
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 3: to you know, trying to persuade people to remember that

981
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 3: and have more conversations like this too, to discover that.

982
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll be back in just a minute. But here's

983
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors, and what happens when people

984
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 1: are willing to claim their fuller selves, like you saying, oh,

985
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 1: I'm not just going to be a broadcaster, a news

986
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 1: anchor and an avatar of this. For me, when I've

987
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 1: allowed myself to take moments and say no, I'm so

988
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 1: much more than an actor. I'm a human being. I'm

989
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 1: an advocate, I'm a friend, I'm this, I'm of that.

990
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 1: You know who am I? What of myself do I

991
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:13,760
Speaker 1: want to take into the world. It's like, as I'm

992
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 1: listening to you talk, and maybe this is for so

993
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 1: many of us who work in some version of again

994
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 1: on screen on air performance. Like having these conversations with

995
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 1: my partner. Some of what we've seen mirrored, although different,

996
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:32,000
Speaker 1: is like what I learned to do as a performance artist,

997
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 1: what she learned to do and present as a performance athlete.

998
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 1: What it is when you finally pause and say, no,

999
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:44,680
Speaker 1: who am I? When I reinflate the balloon? Who is

1000
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:48,360
Speaker 1: all of me? And it's crazy side note because I'm like,

1001
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:49,919
Speaker 1: oh my god, I have to connect you to because

1002
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 1: you should do each other's shows. She had the same

1003
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:55,560
Speaker 1: experience with the iHeart folks doing her advocacy in her

1004
00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 1: work and building out this huge thing. You know, this

1005
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 1: women's sports network. We have women their moment, you know

1006
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 1: in this radio media space.

1007
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1008
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 1: I got to sit back and watch and this has

1009
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 1: never happened to me in my personal life before, but

1010
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:11,960
Speaker 1: I was. I watched them all kind of turn and go, well,

1011
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 1: you have to do a podcast. Your stories are wild.

1012
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 1: You know, She's out building all these things for other people.

1013
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:19,160
Speaker 1: And then they were like, we want you to do one,

1014
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:21,120
Speaker 1: and she was like, oh, no, no, no, you know,

1015
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: I'm I'm finding my world beyond sport. I don't you know.

1016
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 1: I love you all and like I want to build this,

1017
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 1: but I wouldn't want to do like a sports podcast.

1018
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:30,600
Speaker 1: And they were like, you can have a podcast about

1019
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 1: whatever you want. We want it from you. We've never

1020
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 1: seen someone talk about these things the way you do.

1021
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:37,200
Speaker 2: And I saw there.

1022
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 1: It was like being at you know, the US Open

1023
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:41,720
Speaker 1: and watching a tennis match. I was like, oh my god,

1024
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 1: I just happened to like be around because we were

1025
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 1: all at the same conference and it was so cool.

1026
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 1: It was just so cool to watch it. And so

1027
01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 1: I guess, really what it is is a shout out

1028
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:54,400
Speaker 1: to all of our bosses.

1029
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 2: You're at iHeart.

1030
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 1: I'm at iHeart, you's at I heart. And it's this

1031
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:01,600
Speaker 1: really cool thing when people can look at you and say,

1032
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:05,440
Speaker 1: I want to know all of you. Yeah, past what

1033
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:09,439
Speaker 1: you do, past what you get accolades for, but why

1034
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 1: you speak this way? Why do you advocate this way?

1035
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:17,479
Speaker 1: How'd you get to be this way? Ally, I love

1036
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 1: that you're encouraging that. I love that the people I'm

1037
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:23,280
Speaker 1: closest to are encouraging that. And I don't think it's

1038
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:25,280
Speaker 1: an accident that we all keep finding each other.

1039
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:31,160
Speaker 3: I don't either, No, truly, And it's funny because both

1040
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:34,640
Speaker 3: you two and me. Right, I'm going to speak for

1041
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 3: the three of us, okay, because I think I can,

1042
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 3: but you can correct me if you want. We fought

1043
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 3: so hard to get where we got and where the

1044
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 3: costume of the career we wanted, right, We fought so

1045
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 3: hard to get there, climbing climbing.

1046
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:52,920
Speaker 2: I just want to be this, I want to embody this.

1047
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 2: And then we did. We got there, we embodied it.

1048
01:01:57,280 --> 01:01:58,959
Speaker 3: Then it got really hard to take the costume off,

1049
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:01,880
Speaker 3: really hard, And who am I without this thing?

1050
01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 2: Who am I?

1051
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:05,760
Speaker 3: I don't know how people are going to see me,

1052
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 3: But I also don't know how I'm going to see myself.

1053
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 2: So it's a challenge. But when you have a partner.

1054
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:15,840
Speaker 3: By that, I mean like iHeart come to you and

1055
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:20,120
Speaker 3: say I see more in you. Yes, I don't see

1056
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:25,120
Speaker 3: the costume. Yes, take the costume off. You don't even

1057
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 3: have to wear the costume to this thing that I

1058
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 3: want you to do. It's amazing and gratifying and validating

1059
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:35,720
Speaker 3: and reassuring and empowering all the things, all the things,

1060
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:39,240
Speaker 3: and I don't even know that they know how much

1061
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 3: that means to someone like you or me or your partner,

1062
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:47,640
Speaker 3: like how much that means to be seen as a

1063
01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:48,360
Speaker 3: whole person.

1064
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 1: And when you're used to with the greatest amount of gratitude,

1065
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 1: by the way, but it's like scales are always what

1066
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 1: they are. You have such a gratitude for your job

1067
01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:01,480
Speaker 1: and you're used to being expected to do it a

1068
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 1: certain way, and then someone says, no, no, I want

1069
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:08,480
Speaker 1: you to come into this arena, which theoretically is work, right,

1070
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 1: but bring your whole self, not just your work self.

1071
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:14,360
Speaker 1: And you go, wait, what what is that?

1072
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:17,240
Speaker 2: I know totally well yeah, yeah, And I.

1073
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:18,919
Speaker 1: Sit here and I do things like this, and it's

1074
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:21,760
Speaker 1: like I'll interview another actor, and then I'll interview a senator,

1075
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 1: I'll interview you as a journalist, and earlier this morning,

1076
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:30,280
Speaker 1: I interviewed a poet. Like I get to look under

1077
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 1: the hood of every single car. I think is cool.

1078
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:37,080
Speaker 1: It doesn't all have to be the same kind, and

1079
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:42,920
Speaker 1: it's it is a really incredible I think, particularly for

1080
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 1: people like us that are really under the storyteller umbrella. Yeah,

1081
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 1: whether you are pursuing fiction or journalism or any of it,

1082
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:58,040
Speaker 1: when you can be a storyteller and a witness at

1083
01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:02,040
Speaker 1: the same time. Right, you know again, twenty year old

1084
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 1: me going to classes at Annenberg could not have imagined this.

1085
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:06,720
Speaker 2: And I.

1086
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:09,960
Speaker 1: Love it for my life, for.

1087
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 2: My work, for the Resistance, Yeah.

1088
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:19,560
Speaker 1: For all of it. It feels very not to be trite,

1089
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:21,480
Speaker 1: but it feels kind of holistic.

1090
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:26,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, you know, well, I totally agree. It feels

1091
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:27,040
Speaker 2: that way for me too.

1092
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:29,680
Speaker 3: And I think for anyone listening thinking well, how does

1093
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:32,480
Speaker 3: this apply to me? Because I'm not an actor, I'm

1094
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:35,480
Speaker 3: not a journalist, and I don't have a podcast, I

1095
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:41,800
Speaker 3: think we all tend to feel two dimensional at times,

1096
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:43,040
Speaker 3: like am I just a mom?

1097
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:45,960
Speaker 2: Or am I just.

1098
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:49,680
Speaker 3: This thing at my job? Or we get to find

1099
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 3: by the things we become. And I think that the

1100
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:58,320
Speaker 3: application outside of what we do is just to open

1101
01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:06,160
Speaker 3: your circle us of influence, hopefully not online, right, your

1102
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:11,680
Speaker 3: your actual circle of influence right in CRL. Yeah, to

1103
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 3: learn more about the world, but ultimately yourself.

1104
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:20,600
Speaker 1: Well, and as you said, the encouragement might be you

1105
01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:24,400
Speaker 1: don't have to start a podcast, but you could, but

1106
01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:26,440
Speaker 1: you can. You don't have to start a podcast, but

1107
01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 1: maybe the takeaway is, oh I don't have time to

1108
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:32,440
Speaker 1: volunteer once a week. But I heard Sarah say she

1109
01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:34,960
Speaker 1: volunteers every other week. Oh maybe I could do that.

1110
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:38,760
Speaker 1: And you could step into a great nonprofit in your

1111
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:41,200
Speaker 1: neighborhood and find your people.

1112
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:42,640
Speaker 2: Or start one. You could.

1113
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:46,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, you could discover that you are actually the best

1114
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:53,160
Speaker 1: advocate for school lunches or your local library or whatever

1115
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:57,000
Speaker 1: it is you. You might not even know how magical

1116
01:05:57,040 --> 01:06:00,480
Speaker 1: you are at something, right, So I think the idea

1117
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:03,760
Speaker 1: is just follow your curiosity, because that's that's what we

1118
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:07,400
Speaker 1: have in common. Right, We're curious about people. We come

1119
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:10,520
Speaker 1: from this work world, and so it led us here.

1120
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:15,680
Speaker 1: We followed our curiosity and it gave us something unexpected. Yeah,

1121
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:18,600
Speaker 1: and I would encourage everyone to do that and to

1122
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:23,360
Speaker 1: lean into whatever yours is, because they're not all going

1123
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:25,000
Speaker 1: to be the same. They can't be. Then we'd have

1124
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:31,400
Speaker 1: a completely one sided, insane society. But follow your curiosity

1125
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:33,320
Speaker 1: and see where it takes.

1126
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:35,360
Speaker 2: You, right, that's right.

1127
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:38,920
Speaker 3: And open yourself to the possibility that there are things

1128
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:41,240
Speaker 3: you're curious about that you don't even know about yet.

1129
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:48,440
Speaker 3: Oh I love that, right, Like there's their entire worlds

1130
01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:51,480
Speaker 3: that you don't know. You might be interested in, but

1131
01:06:51,520 --> 01:06:55,280
Speaker 3: you haven't even begun to explore. So Yeah, I think

1132
01:06:55,440 --> 01:07:00,520
Speaker 3: when you talk about the flattening of us and then

1133
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:05,680
Speaker 3: the inflation inflating us, it's such a good metaphor, and

1134
01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:06,480
Speaker 3: it really.

1135
01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:09,360
Speaker 2: Anyone could use that. Anyone can identify with that.

1136
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:12,880
Speaker 3: I feel flat and I need to feel full and inflated,

1137
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:16,080
Speaker 3: and that's what that's what that's what's gonna fill you up.

1138
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:19,520
Speaker 3: Or those connections and that curiosity and those new experiences.

1139
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:23,800
Speaker 1: It's so much fun to get to speak to people

1140
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:26,960
Speaker 1: and find all the light bulbs that you didn't even

1141
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:30,360
Speaker 1: know you'd share. I'm finding so many with you today.

1142
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:34,040
Speaker 1: How have you been finding that on the podcast Shifting

1143
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:37,560
Speaker 1: out of traditional news? Who are some of your favorite

1144
01:07:37,560 --> 01:07:39,800
Speaker 1: people you've interviewed? Who's surprised you the most?

1145
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:45,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, gosh, I've loved talking to everyone. I know that

1146
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:49,040
Speaker 3: sounds like a but it's I mean, there's something interesting

1147
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 3: about everyone. But I mean I had a great conversation

1148
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:56,440
Speaker 3: with doctor Drew pinsk right, because he's lived in the

1149
01:07:56,440 --> 01:08:01,160
Speaker 3: media world but also treats people with addiction issues and

1150
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:04,400
Speaker 3: also mental health issues. So his own mental health journey

1151
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:09,600
Speaker 3: was really interesting to hear about. I have a very

1152
01:08:09,640 --> 01:08:14,320
Speaker 3: good friend, Josh Gad who's an actor right a door adore,

1153
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:20,360
Speaker 3: and we talked about some really tough stuff, including anxiety,

1154
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:25,080
Speaker 3: but also anti semitism and navigating that. I get great

1155
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:28,679
Speaker 3: career advice from people who were successful and that's fun,

1156
01:08:29,400 --> 01:08:32,240
Speaker 3: but really, when it comes down to it, those mental

1157
01:08:32,280 --> 01:08:37,960
Speaker 3: health connections. I was talking to Mark Dwoplas, so we

1158
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:40,800
Speaker 3: did that episode. It hasn't aired yet, but we've both

1159
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:43,400
Speaker 3: talked about our mental health. And I told him that

1160
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:49,000
Speaker 3: I was really sad that I'm not like the multitasker

1161
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:51,680
Speaker 3: I once was. I could do a thousand things at

1162
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:54,400
Speaker 3: once and it was great, and now I really have

1163
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:58,400
Speaker 3: to concentrate after my sort of breakdown, Yeah, my brain

1164
01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:00,920
Speaker 3: is not functioning at the level it was and I

1165
01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:02,880
Speaker 3: have to like really focus on one thing at a time.

1166
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:06,960
Speaker 2: And he goes, is that a bad thing? I said,

1167
01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:08,560
Speaker 2: is that a bad thing? Huh?

1168
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:11,120
Speaker 3: And he said, I bet you weren't super happy and

1169
01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:14,760
Speaker 3: healthy when you were multitasking and doing eleven things not

1170
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:18,679
Speaker 3: very well but getting them done, and you felt crazed

1171
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:22,080
Speaker 3: and crazy and rushed and stressed. And yeah, I did

1172
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:24,799
Speaker 3: feel all those things. And he said, are you allowed

1173
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:29,960
Speaker 3: to age and change, maybe get a little worse at this,

1174
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:34,000
Speaker 3: but better at this, and said, yeah, I mean talk

1175
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:38,000
Speaker 3: about a light bulb. You only get those when you

1176
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:41,160
Speaker 3: really get honest and deep and you create a space

1177
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:45,479
Speaker 3: where people feel comfortable and you're just talking like normal people.

1178
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:51,080
Speaker 3: Those are the moments that I savor so much about

1179
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:52,599
Speaker 3: that pod well and what.

1180
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:56,599
Speaker 1: Strikes me too. And not to be a total language nerd,

1181
01:09:56,640 --> 01:10:00,360
Speaker 1: but I am about what he said, are you not

1182
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:03,680
Speaker 1: allowed to age? I wouldn't even put the idea of

1183
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:05,839
Speaker 1: aging on it. I would say are you not allowed

1184
01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:06,599
Speaker 1: to mature?

1185
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:07,320
Speaker 3: Right?

1186
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:08,040
Speaker 2: Right?

1187
01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:12,760
Speaker 1: Because when we are younger, it is very easy to

1188
01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:14,000
Speaker 1: be like, I have to do everything, and I have

1189
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:16,559
Speaker 1: to do it all the time. You don't enjoy it,

1190
01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:19,120
Speaker 1: You barely remember it. Yeah, you probably were pumped full

1191
01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:21,759
Speaker 1: of adrenaline because you were so anxious. To his point,

1192
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:23,720
Speaker 1: maybe you got all those things done, but how well

1193
01:10:23,720 --> 01:10:24,360
Speaker 1: did you do them?

1194
01:10:24,640 --> 01:10:24,880
Speaker 2: Right?

1195
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:29,920
Speaker 1: And at your life stage, you are now kinder to

1196
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:33,960
Speaker 1: yourself and mature enough to say, oh, if I don't

1197
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:37,439
Speaker 1: just do one thing at a time, I'm not really

1198
01:10:37,479 --> 01:10:38,160
Speaker 1: doing anything.

1199
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:42,160
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, that's right, you know, And it's okay to

1200
01:10:42,280 --> 01:10:46,479
Speaker 3: say like to my husband or son I'm concentrating. You

1201
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:48,080
Speaker 3: need to leave me alone for ten minutes so I

1202
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:51,120
Speaker 3: can finish this, right, Yes, you never used to ask

1203
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:53,479
Speaker 3: permission for those things, you know.

1204
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:55,080
Speaker 1: And by the way, then, how pissed were you when

1205
01:10:55,120 --> 01:10:57,800
Speaker 1: someone interrupted you and you'd be listening to what they

1206
01:10:57,880 --> 01:10:59,559
Speaker 1: needed and you'd be resenting them for it.

1207
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:02,000
Speaker 2: Ye, piss is not the word. Piss is not the word.

1208
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:06,360
Speaker 3: I mean the heat of a thousand sun's angry, enraged

1209
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:10,840
Speaker 3: that I would get interrupted usually before before all all this,

1210
01:11:11,640 --> 01:11:14,280
Speaker 3: I could get interrupted, be fine, go right back to

1211
01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:19,360
Speaker 3: my task or tune it out, I mean enraged, And yeah,

1212
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:24,200
Speaker 3: getting permission from Mark Duplas, right, I mean all right.

1213
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:26,240
Speaker 2: To say no. You can ask permission.

1214
01:11:26,360 --> 01:11:28,479
Speaker 3: You can say I need you to give me this

1215
01:11:28,600 --> 01:11:30,200
Speaker 3: space so I can focus on this.

1216
01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:34,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, yeah, of course you can do that. Of

1217
01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:35,640
Speaker 2: course you can do that.

1218
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:39,160
Speaker 3: But sometimes the most obvious things only come when you're

1219
01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:41,640
Speaker 3: sitting down with a total stranger who can see you

1220
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:44,280
Speaker 3: from the outside.

1221
01:11:44,439 --> 01:11:48,559
Speaker 1: And sometimes the most obvious things are revelatory because they

1222
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:50,320
Speaker 1: life changed it obvious to you.

1223
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:56,320
Speaker 2: Yeah right, you know, exactly right. My therapist said.

1224
01:11:57,200 --> 01:12:00,320
Speaker 3: We were talking about social media and the anxiety it

1225
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:04,400
Speaker 3: creates and she said, I bet you go on social

1226
01:12:04,439 --> 01:12:07,880
Speaker 3: media pretty passively, like without intentions. I said, oh, yeah,

1227
01:12:07,880 --> 01:12:10,080
Speaker 3: I'm on Twitter because I'm waiting in line at the

1228
01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:11,160
Speaker 3: grocery store and.

1229
01:12:11,080 --> 01:12:15,439
Speaker 2: Board, or I'm on Instagram for validation. What are people

1230
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:17,080
Speaker 2: are they? They liking my post? You know?

1231
01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:20,280
Speaker 3: And she said, well, is that the way you go

1232
01:12:20,280 --> 01:12:23,160
Speaker 3: to the grocery store just hoping things will jump in

1233
01:12:23,200 --> 01:12:23,679
Speaker 3: your cart?

1234
01:12:25,439 --> 01:12:25,479
Speaker 1: No?

1235
01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:28,479
Speaker 3: I go because I have a list, I know what

1236
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:31,280
Speaker 3: I need, and I'm leaving with the things that I need.

1237
01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:34,040
Speaker 3: She said, yeah, if you go on social media without intentionality,

1238
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:36,360
Speaker 3: everything's going to jump in your cart and it's going

1239
01:12:36,400 --> 01:12:37,960
Speaker 3: to be a lot of stuff you didn't you weren't

1240
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:39,160
Speaker 3: there for, and.

1241
01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:40,920
Speaker 2: It's actually harmful to you.

1242
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:44,800
Speaker 3: You don't want God, right, So the idea of this

1243
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:47,519
Speaker 3: grocery store that is social media?

1244
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:50,280
Speaker 2: What am I there for? You can go? You gotta go,

1245
01:12:50,520 --> 01:12:52,080
Speaker 2: you gotta go on it. I have to go on

1246
01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:53,800
Speaker 2: social media for my job. You got to go to

1247
01:12:53,840 --> 01:12:56,000
Speaker 2: the grocery store. What am I there for?

1248
01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:59,599
Speaker 3: I'm only leaving with this And even if I am

1249
01:12:59,640 --> 01:13:04,760
Speaker 3: there or whatever reason, I know why I'm there and

1250
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:08,040
Speaker 3: I'm not letting social media happen to me, which is

1251
01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:10,880
Speaker 3: I think how a lot of people navigate social media

1252
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:13,040
Speaker 3: and the news. So I mean, yeah, these sort of

1253
01:13:13,080 --> 01:13:19,599
Speaker 3: seemingly very simple, obvious, life changing revelations that happen in

1254
01:13:19,640 --> 01:13:23,479
Speaker 3: therapy and then in these conversations with people. I mean,

1255
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:25,120
Speaker 3: that's what I'm living for right now.

1256
01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:29,080
Speaker 1: I love it. Oh, I absolutely love it. I'm like,

1257
01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:31,000
Speaker 1: we have let's go to dinner. I want to talk

1258
01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:32,520
Speaker 1: about three more hours.

1259
01:13:32,320 --> 01:13:33,360
Speaker 2: Right, what are we doing?

1260
01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:35,360
Speaker 3: Oh?

1261
01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:38,759
Speaker 1: It's so fun. This is my favorite question to ask everyone,

1262
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:41,800
Speaker 1: but I think I'm particularly excited to ask you because

1263
01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:46,080
Speaker 1: we've just had this beautifully spherical conversation.

1264
01:13:46,280 --> 01:13:47,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1265
01:13:46,479 --> 01:13:50,600
Speaker 1: I think that to really consider it kind of requires

1266
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:55,880
Speaker 1: that full balloon, if you will. When you look out,

1267
01:13:56,040 --> 01:14:01,479
Speaker 1: you know lessons, you've gleaned, identity, you've found, kindness you're

1268
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:07,240
Speaker 1: bestowing on yourself, preparing for what's to come. I'm laughing,

1269
01:14:07,240 --> 01:14:08,880
Speaker 1: even though it's not funny, because if I don't laugh

1270
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:09,759
Speaker 1: a little bit, I'll cry.

1271
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:10,200
Speaker 2: Yeap.

1272
01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:15,280
Speaker 1: Whether it's personal and professional and mix, what feels like

1273
01:14:15,320 --> 01:14:17,719
Speaker 1: you're work in progress right now?

1274
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:22,559
Speaker 3: I mean the easy answer for me is I'm working

1275
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:26,600
Speaker 3: on my mental health. That's obvious. But in addition to

1276
01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:30,439
Speaker 3: doing it, for me, I have a ten year old son,

1277
01:14:31,720 --> 01:14:36,040
Speaker 3: and it's not just important that I be like a happy,

1278
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:42,440
Speaker 3: healthy person for him, but there's like breaking cycles, yeah,

1279
01:14:42,479 --> 01:14:46,400
Speaker 3: and there's modeling for him that it's okay to not

1280
01:14:46,439 --> 01:14:52,200
Speaker 3: be okay in age appropriate ways. Right. My therapist asked

1281
01:14:52,240 --> 01:14:53,960
Speaker 3: me once like, are you do you talk about your

1282
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:55,559
Speaker 3: anxiety with your kid? And I was like, of course,

1283
01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:59,400
Speaker 3: I don't. What she's like, don't shield him him from

1284
01:14:59,479 --> 01:15:03,400
Speaker 3: it completely. He will grow up thinking mom was perfect.

1285
01:15:04,120 --> 01:15:08,200
Speaker 3: Mom never struggled, and so if I'm struggling, there's something

1286
01:15:08,200 --> 01:15:12,559
Speaker 3: wrong with me. So working on my mental health so

1287
01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:18,080
Speaker 3: that he sees a person that had challenges, confronted them,

1288
01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:22,439
Speaker 3: got help, worked through them, talked openly about them is

1289
01:15:22,439 --> 01:15:26,000
Speaker 3: a gift I'm giving to him as well.

1290
01:15:26,120 --> 01:15:28,439
Speaker 2: So that's the work in progress, and that'll.

1291
01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:30,120
Speaker 3: Always be in progress because he's always going to be

1292
01:15:30,160 --> 01:15:33,160
Speaker 3: growing up and changing and going through stuff that I

1293
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:37,599
Speaker 3: of course want to help him with. But modeling this

1294
01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:41,479
Speaker 3: challenge in particular is the work in progress of my

1295
01:15:41,560 --> 01:15:43,719
Speaker 3: life in so many ways.

1296
01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:45,640
Speaker 2: But that's the most important part of it for me.

1297
01:15:46,720 --> 01:15:52,560
Speaker 1: Oh, I think that's beautiful. I think it's so important,

1298
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:59,519
Speaker 1: especially for our kind of peer group because we're so

1299
01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:02,479
Speaker 1: lucky we have more resources in terms of mental health

1300
01:16:02,479 --> 01:16:05,240
Speaker 1: and these conversations being out in the open than our

1301
01:16:05,280 --> 01:16:08,519
Speaker 1: parents did. For sure, yep, but we weren't raised by

1302
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:11,360
Speaker 1: parents who had all these resources. Right, So, if we

1303
01:16:11,439 --> 01:16:14,840
Speaker 1: don't figure out a way not just to follow the

1304
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:20,280
Speaker 1: threads of the resources to know better, if we don't

1305
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:23,439
Speaker 1: model better, we're really modeling the shit that we saw,

1306
01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:24,599
Speaker 1: model that hurt us.

1307
01:16:24,920 --> 01:16:25,960
Speaker 2: That's exactly right.

1308
01:16:26,280 --> 01:16:31,280
Speaker 1: So you have to learn and model to break the curse.

1309
01:16:32,160 --> 01:16:32,840
Speaker 2: Exactly right.

1310
01:16:33,200 --> 01:16:34,680
Speaker 1: What a cool thing you get to do.

1311
01:16:35,360 --> 01:16:39,280
Speaker 3: It's a proactive thing. M You can feel like, I'm

1312
01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:40,720
Speaker 3: gonna work on this thing, but I'm going to work

1313
01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:43,799
Speaker 3: on it quietly. It's for me. It's isolated, it's alone.

1314
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:45,519
Speaker 3: I'm working on it for me. But if you're not

1315
01:16:45,920 --> 01:16:48,920
Speaker 3: proactively modeling it for.

1316
01:16:50,520 --> 01:16:51,120
Speaker 2: Your kids or.

1317
01:16:51,120 --> 01:16:56,360
Speaker 3: People around you to learn from, you are protecting that cycle.

1318
01:16:56,439 --> 01:17:01,599
Speaker 3: You are protecting and maintaining that cycle of silence and stigma.

1319
01:17:01,960 --> 01:17:04,200
Speaker 2: You're not doing it intentionally, but you are.

1320
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:07,879
Speaker 3: And so to break that cycle of silence and stigma,

1321
01:17:07,920 --> 01:17:12,479
Speaker 3: you have to actively go out and almost evangelize, you know, like, yes,

1322
01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:17,080
Speaker 3: the normalization of these kinds of conversations, the normalization of asking,

1323
01:17:17,120 --> 01:17:20,800
Speaker 3: are you okay, how you doing? Talking about your mental health,

1324
01:17:20,920 --> 01:17:24,640
Speaker 3: asking for help normalize so it's you don't even notice it.

1325
01:17:24,680 --> 01:17:26,479
Speaker 3: That's where I want to get, or you don't even

1326
01:17:26,520 --> 01:17:27,759
Speaker 3: notice that it's happening.

1327
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:32,160
Speaker 1: Yes, it becomes as common as talking about the weather.

1328
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:35,639
Speaker 2: Correct, exactly right. We'll get there one day.

1329
01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:38,680
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. Thank you so much

1330
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:40,400
Speaker 1: for today. This has been so much fun.

1331
01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:43,920
Speaker 2: Thank you. I feel the same. Such a lovely conversation.

1332
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:48,160
Speaker 3: You're such a lovely person and vessel for this kind

1333
01:17:48,200 --> 01:17:49,280
Speaker 3: of conversation.

1334
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:53,360
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you have an amazing rest of your day.

1335
01:17:53,400 --> 01:17:54,400
Speaker 1: I will see you soon too,