WEBVTT - What Could Happen Next in the Russia-Ukraine Peace Process

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>After last week's summit in Alaska between US President Trump

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<v Speaker 2>and Russian President Putin, Ukrainian President Zelensky and more than

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<v Speaker 2>half a dozen European leaders traveled to Washington.

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<v Speaker 3>Getting a group of European leaders to come in anywhere

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<v Speaker 3>in August is sort of a tough task, much less

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<v Speaker 3>in a few days, and I think it underscores the

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<v Speaker 3>level of concern there was coming out of that Alaskamedian

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<v Speaker 3>among Ukraine and Ukraine's allies in Europe over what President

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<v Speaker 3>Trump's plans were.

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<v Speaker 2>Bloomberg's Justin Sink says, this group of presidents and prime ministers,

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<v Speaker 2>NATO's secretary General and Germany's chancellor wanted to make sure

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<v Speaker 2>Ukraine and the rest of Europe are included in the

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<v Speaker 2>peace process, and that Trump understands what's at stake, not

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<v Speaker 2>just for Ukraine but for the whole continent. First is

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<v Speaker 2>a Lensky met with Trump at the White House, and

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<v Speaker 2>that meeting unfolded much better than another one they had

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<v Speaker 2>a few months ago in the Oval Office.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that we had a very good conversation with presidents,

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<v Speaker 1>very good and it really was the best one.

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<v Speaker 2>Next Trump held a roundtable discussion with a group that

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<v Speaker 2>included Francis Emmanuel Macron, Italy's Georgia Maloney, and the UK's

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<v Speaker 2>Cure Starmer, and each of them emphasized the importance of

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<v Speaker 2>security guarantees for Ukraine in any peace deal.

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<v Speaker 4>We're talking about the security not just of Ukraine, We're

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<v Speaker 4>talking about the security of Europe and the United Kingdom

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<v Speaker 4>as well.

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<v Speaker 2>There is a lot of discussion over the course of

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<v Speaker 2>the day of next steps of President Zelenski and President

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<v Speaker 2>Putin potentially meeting one on one and if there being

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<v Speaker 2>a trilateral meeting with Ukraine, Russia, and the United States.

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<v Speaker 2>But according to Justin Sink, there is nothing on the

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<v Speaker 2>schedule and getting Zelenski and Putin together to talk is

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<v Speaker 2>far from guaranteed.

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<v Speaker 3>The way that the White House and the way the

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<v Speaker 3>President Trump framed it was that the meeting seemed like

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<v Speaker 3>a sort of inevitable outcome. I don't think that that's true.

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<v Speaker 3>When the Kremlin read out the same phone call between

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<v Speaker 3>Trump and Putin following his meeting with Celenski and the Europeans,

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<v Speaker 3>they merely mentioned that there had been a discussion of

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<v Speaker 3>the possibility of a meeting didn't confirm that they were

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<v Speaker 3>working to make it happen, So there's a real question

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<v Speaker 3>of if this meeting even happens, though I think Europe

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<v Speaker 3>and Ukraine have to be happy that they've at least

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<v Speaker 3>hot potatoed this back into Putin's lap.

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<v Speaker 2>Right now, I'm David Gera, and this is the big

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<v Speaker 2>take from Bloomberg News today on the show. After separate

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<v Speaker 2>bilateral meetings with the US and Russia and the US

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<v Speaker 2>and Ukraine and a show of forest from European leaders

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<v Speaker 2>at the White House, what's next in the peace process,

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<v Speaker 2>what would be on the table at a trilateral meeting,

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<v Speaker 2>and what a peace deal would mean for Ukraine and

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<v Speaker 2>Europe as a whole. Last week, President Trump literally rolled

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<v Speaker 2>out the red carpet for President Putin in Alaska. It

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<v Speaker 2>was the first time the Russian president had set foot

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<v Speaker 2>on US soil in a decade. Well thousands of miles away.

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<v Speaker 2>Ukraine's president and other European leaders were paying close attention,

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<v Speaker 2>and Justin Sink, who oversees Bloomberg's coverage of the Trump

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<v Speaker 2>White House, says that summit stirred them to action.

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<v Speaker 3>So we went from Putin and Trump leaving Friday in

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<v Speaker 3>Alaska to Monday afternoon a basic mini G seven convention

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<v Speaker 3>held at the White House, and that kind of underscores

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<v Speaker 3>what they saw as a real moment of possible peril

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<v Speaker 3>for Ukraine. But then out of that, we've now added

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<v Speaker 3>this possibility of a first meeting between Zelenski and Putin

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<v Speaker 3>and another meeting between Putin, Trump and Zelenski, with leaders

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<v Speaker 3>saying that could happen the next couple weeks. Potentially the

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<v Speaker 3>entire thing wrapped up in three weeks. I think that's

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<v Speaker 3>obviously the most optimistic version of how this could play out.

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<v Speaker 3>But considering how long these talks have installed that the

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<v Speaker 3>war has been going on for more than three years,

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<v Speaker 3>we have seen this real sort of rapid acceleration.

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<v Speaker 2>Pyotr Skolamowski, who overseas coverage of government and politics in

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<v Speaker 2>Central Europe for Bloomberg, also kept a close watch on

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<v Speaker 2>the meeting between Trump and Putin and what happened next.

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<v Speaker 4>The visuals from the summit were really scary for European leaders,

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<v Speaker 4>and they're really concerning. I mean, the fact that he

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<v Speaker 4>rolled out the red carpet and the fact that he

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<v Speaker 4>basically didn't even push back and immediately after it more

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<v Speaker 4>or less adopted the talking points that Putin was having

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<v Speaker 4>and raised concerns that, first of all, Zelenski going forward

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<v Speaker 4>will be forced into territorial concessions, which is a big

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<v Speaker 4>concern there. And you know that Pudding is basically has

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<v Speaker 4>Trump on his side, So for them, it was a

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<v Speaker 4>serious matter just to go there and turn this narrative around.

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<v Speaker 2>Justin let's talk about what was a busy day at

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<v Speaker 2>the White House yesterday. There was this one on one

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<v Speaker 2>between President Trump and President Zelenski as well, and it

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't difficult to draw contrast to the previous meeting between

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<v Speaker 2>those two leaders. Could you just describe the atmospherics of

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<v Speaker 2>this one, how it was different than the last time

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<v Speaker 2>they sat down together in the Oval Office?

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<v Speaker 3>Sure, I mean the difference was sort of immediately obvious

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<v Speaker 3>from when Zelenski pulled up at the White House wearing

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<v Speaker 3>a suit and Trump immediately kind of slaps him on

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<v Speaker 3>the shoulder and says, oh, you know, you wore a suit,

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<v Speaker 3>which seems, of course, like an incredibly trivial thing. But

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<v Speaker 3>for a president who so focuses on image, on style,

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<v Speaker 3>on the sort of pageantry of the office, it was

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<v Speaker 3>an immediate signal from Zelensky that he was setting a

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<v Speaker 3>different tone for this meeting, and the reception from Trump

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<v Speaker 3>signaled that as well. They moved quickly to the Oval office.

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<v Speaker 3>And you see there are different points in that meeting

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<v Speaker 3>that could have gone south. There's a point where Zelenski says,

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<v Speaker 3>is asked by a reporter, what do you need to

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<v Speaker 3>agree to a peace deal? And he says everything. He

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<v Speaker 3>wants security guarantees, he wants assistance from Europe, all of

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<v Speaker 3>these different asks. And he's making that ask in front

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<v Speaker 3>of a US president that has basically gone the campaign

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<v Speaker 3>trail and through the first eight months of his presidency.

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<v Speaker 3>He said, time and time again, I think Ukraine has

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<v Speaker 3>asked for too much. But Trump doesn't sort of take

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<v Speaker 3>the bait and attack Selensky. And then there's this one

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<v Speaker 3>sort of amazing moment to get back to the suit

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<v Speaker 3>where Trump points out a reporter who had been the

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<v Speaker 3>one who asked Lensky about the suit.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, all this President, you look fabulous in that suit. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>look you look good.

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<v Speaker 5>I said the.

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<v Speaker 3>Same and says, you know, this is the guy who

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<v Speaker 3>gave you a hard time before time. I remember that.

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<v Speaker 1>I apologize to you.

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<v Speaker 3>Look you look one, and Zelenski quickly quips back and says, oh, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, I changed my clothes. This guy's wearing the

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<v Speaker 3>same suit.

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<v Speaker 1>No, my first question for you President in the same suit.

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<v Speaker 3>Trump loved it. He was one of the first genuine

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<v Speaker 3>laughs that I think you can point to from Trump

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<v Speaker 3>and off it's just cackling and and I think it

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<v Speaker 3>showed that he was not only in a better mood,

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<v Speaker 3>but understood the gravity of the situation and understood that

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<v Speaker 3>if there was a repeat of what happened the last

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<v Speaker 3>time around, Trump himself would face a lot of those

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<v Speaker 3>same criticisms that dogged his first term about how he

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<v Speaker 3>just rolled over time and time again.

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<v Speaker 2>There was this other meeting that followed that one with

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<v Speaker 2>these European leaders, and President Trump gave each of them

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<v Speaker 2>an opportunity to speak. How unified was the message from

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<v Speaker 2>these European leaders who came to the White House.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean it was unified in one sense that they've

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<v Speaker 4>really tried to lay it on thick in terms of

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<v Speaker 4>charming him and trying to say all these good words

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<v Speaker 4>about how he broke to that log.

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<v Speaker 1>I really want to thank you, President of the United States,

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<v Speaker 1>Theodnalds for the fact that you, as I said before,

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<v Speaker 1>it broke the deadlock basically with the President starting that dialogue.

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<v Speaker 4>And so that's been something that's definitely sort of a

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<v Speaker 4>charm offensive was clearly in the process. What we saw

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<v Speaker 4>when sort of the message strating breaking up a little

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<v Speaker 4>bit is was the moment where British mets the new

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<v Speaker 4>chancellor from Germany. He basically came back to this whole idea.

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<v Speaker 4>Of of course the peace plan is important. This is

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<v Speaker 4>something that came out of the meeting from in Alaska,

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<v Speaker 4>but we need to have ceasefire first. And I think

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<v Speaker 4>he even got to the point where when we get

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<v Speaker 4>the next meeting, we need to have a ceasefire by then.

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<v Speaker 4>Clearly Trump was slightly taken aback by that, but it

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<v Speaker 4>didn't really ruin the atmosphere. It seems they tried to

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<v Speaker 4>stay on message, justin.

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<v Speaker 2>Where do things stand now? So there's this desire from

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<v Speaker 2>President Trump to have a bilateral meeting, to have President

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<v Speaker 2>Putin and President Selenski sit down with one another and

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<v Speaker 2>then have this trilateral meeting. I guess it would be

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<v Speaker 2>another summit involving President Trump as well. What's the expectation.

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<v Speaker 2>How widely shared is that expectation of where things go

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<v Speaker 2>from here.

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<v Speaker 3>European leaders said that they expected that it could be

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<v Speaker 3>set within hours or hours later, and it hasn't happened.

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<v Speaker 3>And yet, and this is something that's actually happened.

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<v Speaker 4>A couple times.

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<v Speaker 3>Throughout this process, there's been an international push to put

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<v Speaker 3>Putin and Lensky in a room. Putin has said I'm

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<v Speaker 3>interested in talking, but only after sort of get to

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<v Speaker 3>the end of a piece deal on favorable terms that

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<v Speaker 3>Russia wants. We heard Zelenski even after the meeting say,

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's really important that there not be conditions

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<v Speaker 3>on this meeting, anticipating that the Kremlin and that Putin

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<v Speaker 3>might try to scuttle the talks putting stuff forth. But

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<v Speaker 3>what I'd say is, despite all the optimism and sort

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<v Speaker 3>of excitement out of the summit in Washington and how

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<v Speaker 3>it seemed like the US and Europe were largely unified

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<v Speaker 3>or at least on the same page, again, there's this

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<v Speaker 3>real question of if you're Russia, do you have this meeting?

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<v Speaker 3>And when you think long term, Russia's objective number one

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<v Speaker 3>may be to get a sweeping deal that ends the

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<v Speaker 3>conflict on their terms, but short of that, to get

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<v Speaker 3>the US to get fed up and tired with this process,

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<v Speaker 3>and get Trump fed up and tired with this process

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<v Speaker 3>to the point that he walks away, he withdraws support,

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<v Speaker 3>and then Russia can kind of use its larger size,

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<v Speaker 3>greater resources to push through and to get the gains

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<v Speaker 3>that they wanted in the first place. So you have

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<v Speaker 3>to kind of consider whether this was a success or

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<v Speaker 3>where this is going, both in the context of the

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<v Speaker 3>immediate term of will there be another meeting, will there

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<v Speaker 3>be a progress towards peace, but also that longer question

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<v Speaker 3>of is this way of just delaying and delaying and

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<v Speaker 3>delaying for Putin to get to his eventual gains anyway.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the biggest sticking points for President Putin and

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<v Speaker 2>President Zelenski has been so called security guarantees. Another one

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<v Speaker 2>is land swaps. After the break, we'll get into what

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<v Speaker 2>each leader wants from negotiations if they happen. On Tuesday morning,

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<v Speaker 2>President Trump told Fox News that while he could see

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<v Speaker 2>the US playing a role in guaranteeing Ukraine's security, it

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<v Speaker 2>would not involve US troops.

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<v Speaker 5>President, what kind of assurances do you feel like you

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<v Speaker 5>have that going forward, and you know, past this Trump administration,

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<v Speaker 5>it won't be American boots on the ground defending that border. Well,

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<v Speaker 5>you have my assurance here, I'm president and I'm just

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<v Speaker 5>trying to stop people from being killed Jarli.

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<v Speaker 2>Look, that was a big indicator of what would be

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<v Speaker 2>a key sticking point in negotiations. Ukraine and its European

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<v Speaker 2>allies are seeking to involve the US in providing security

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<v Speaker 2>guarantees for Ukraine, which would deter Russia from violating a

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<v Speaker 2>ceasefire agreement. Bloomberg's Pyotr Skolamowski says that while we don't

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<v Speaker 2>have many specifics, there are a few ways this could

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<v Speaker 2>shake out, and the first option involves sending weapons to Ukraine.

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<v Speaker 4>So that's basically their best bet, just to arm them

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<v Speaker 4>to the teeth and hope for the best more or less.

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<v Speaker 4>But you know, the next step is much more harder

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<v Speaker 4>for them. It's the concept that's been discussed for at

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<v Speaker 4>least a year now. It started with mccron who raised

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<v Speaker 4>this issue of putting foots on the ground there. If

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<v Speaker 4>you think about the Europeans, obviously we have the Coalition

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<v Speaker 4>of the Willing and the Group of Countries and most

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<v Speaker 4>of the leaders who joined Trump yesterday are part of

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<v Speaker 4>that group, and they are discussing a potentially sending troops

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<v Speaker 4>at some point. If you look across the EU, a

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<v Speaker 4>lot of countries are against that. Take poland they've said

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<v Speaker 4>already they're not going to send troops, even though they're

0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:33.080
<v Speaker 4>ready to support. So a lot of countries are willing

0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:36.800
<v Speaker 4>to support, they're willing to send more weapons, but when

0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.280
<v Speaker 4>it comes to troops, that's basically a step too far.

0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:44.520
<v Speaker 4>Zelenski said yesterday that one of the potential security guarantees

0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:47.520
<v Speaker 4>is actually membership of Ukraine and the EU. But then

0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:50.480
<v Speaker 4>again here you know with the EU Younique consensus, and

0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:52.839
<v Speaker 4>there is no consensus on that. And one example is

0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:57.280
<v Speaker 4>Victor Orban Hungary is prime minister who's dead against that idea.

0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:00.440
<v Speaker 4>And joining you is, in normal circums as a very

0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:03.800
<v Speaker 4>long process. In this case it can be even longer.

0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:06.959
<v Speaker 4>So that deals us with sort of the third option,

0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:11.040
<v Speaker 4>which which basically means how much US is going to

0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:13.640
<v Speaker 4>be committed into that process. And at the end of

0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:15.960
<v Speaker 4>the day, it's very hard to imagine that if we

0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:20.400
<v Speaker 4>get to a situation, whether it's trilateral meeting or bilateral meeting,

0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:24.840
<v Speaker 4>there is some kind of form where West secures or

0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:27.720
<v Speaker 4>guarantees security for Russia. We've heard from Putting so many

0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.400
<v Speaker 4>times that he talks about the root causes of this war,

0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:35.000
<v Speaker 4>root causes, NATO being very close to Russia, NATO as

0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:38.720
<v Speaker 4>he sees it, being a threat to Russia, and any

0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:42.200
<v Speaker 4>form of security guarantees, any form of troops or boots

0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:45.600
<v Speaker 4>on the ground from Western countries in Ukraine will just

0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:49.320
<v Speaker 4>be seen by Putting as another example of West just

0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:52.400
<v Speaker 4>trying to to get into what he considered his sphere

0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:53.560
<v Speaker 4>of influence.

0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:55.680
<v Speaker 2>You know, we have seen for more than a decade

0:13:55.720 --> 0:14:00.520
<v Speaker 2>now Russia trying quite doggedly to gain control of this

0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.960
<v Speaker 2>eastern part of Ukraine. Can you just explain for someone

0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:07.160
<v Speaker 2>who's been watching this with some remove why that territory

0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:10.199
<v Speaker 2>has been continues to be so important for Russia.

0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:12.400
<v Speaker 4>There are number of reasons. First of all, obviously it's

0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:15.520
<v Speaker 4>part of the country that's at least to some extent

0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:19.240
<v Speaker 4>Russian speaking, so that's where they see where they can

0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:22.680
<v Speaker 4>have influence, and they've been trying to control that country

0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:25.760
<v Speaker 4>even before the full scale invasion, where we have to

0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:30.040
<v Speaker 4>go back to twenty fourteen. But there are other factors,

0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:33.120
<v Speaker 4>and one of them is obviously it's the place where

0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:36.480
<v Speaker 4>there is, or there has been, at least the industry

0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:39.600
<v Speaker 4>until it was completely destroyed during this war. And it's

0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:42.520
<v Speaker 4>the industrial heartland of Ukraine. And what we have to

0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:46.040
<v Speaker 4>remember strategically, this territory is very key for them. And

0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:49.840
<v Speaker 4>Zelenski said that if he gives up down Bas, this

0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:52.240
<v Speaker 4>will just be a springboard for pouting to start again.

0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:54.560
<v Speaker 4>And I think that's the biggest concern for him, that

0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:57.480
<v Speaker 4>if they give it up from strategic point of view,

0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:00.280
<v Speaker 4>from tactical point of view, he will just come back

0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:02.720
<v Speaker 4>again in a couple of years. And now he's wrote

0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:06.000
<v Speaker 4>towards reaching Kiev and actually capturing will be much easier.

0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:09.640
<v Speaker 2>Justin what would happen if this process were to fall apart.

0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:12.560
<v Speaker 3>Well, it's hard. It's always hard to predict the future,

0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:16.000
<v Speaker 3>but what I would say is that it gets into very,

0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:20.440
<v Speaker 3>very dangerous territory for Ukraine. President Trump has already slowed

0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.920
<v Speaker 3>down or essentially stopped many of the pure aid deliveries

0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:27.440
<v Speaker 3>that the US was offering. In moments of frustration, He's

0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:30.040
<v Speaker 3>cut off some of the intelligence sharing. A lot of

0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:34.040
<v Speaker 3>that's come back, But if Trump feels that Ukraine was

0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:37.760
<v Speaker 3>the impediment to the talks going forward, which undeniably will

0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:40.480
<v Speaker 3>be Putin's narrative and something that he laid the groundwork

0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:44.640
<v Speaker 3>for in Alaska. As Trump and Putin were sitting on stage,

0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:47.520
<v Speaker 3>Putin said that he was committed to peace and that

0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:51.680
<v Speaker 3>he hoped that Ukraine and the European capitals wouldn't interfere.

0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:54.440
<v Speaker 3>And if that's something that Trump believes he has been

0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.480
<v Speaker 3>sincere about, it's a moment of peril for Ukraine. The

0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:01.680
<v Speaker 3>alternate is we have seen Trump increasingly frustrated with Putin

0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.240
<v Speaker 3>throughout this process. He said he thought this was going

0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:06.280
<v Speaker 3>to be the easiest ward a broker. He said in

0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:09.560
<v Speaker 3>a hot mic moment yesterday' summit that he thought, as

0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:15.560
<v Speaker 3>crazy as it sounded, you understand that Astras Putin was

0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:18.920
<v Speaker 3>really sincere about trying to strike a deal with him.

0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:22.920
<v Speaker 3>And if he feels that Putin was string him along,

0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:25.880
<v Speaker 3>if he feels that Putin was lying to him and

0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:29.920
<v Speaker 3>in fact has sort of embarrassed him as a president

0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:34.000
<v Speaker 3>who has largely defended outreach in conversation with Russia, then

0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:37.160
<v Speaker 3>it's possible that we could see the US rally around

0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:41.200
<v Speaker 3>and restart support for Ukraine. But there is this sort

0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:43.760
<v Speaker 3>of fear that underscores all of this, which I do

0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:47.800
<v Speaker 3>think that Trump understands that if there was a catastrophe

0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:51.440
<v Speaker 3>in Ukraine where he was seen, you know, it seemed

0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:54.080
<v Speaker 3>like Trump was at fault for Ukraine falling that it

0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:58.480
<v Speaker 3>could reverberate politically in the way that the withdrawal from

0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:02.960
<v Speaker 3>Afghanistan reverberated ically for President Biden and was the real

0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:06.600
<v Speaker 3>sort of precipice from which his approval ratings fell, that

0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:09.040
<v Speaker 3>sort of thing, and so he's Trump was going to

0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:09.800
<v Speaker 3>have to navigate it.

0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:11.880
<v Speaker 2>Peter up the last question to you, and we've talked

0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:15.359
<v Speaker 2>about the fear in Europe broadly of this ending with

0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:18.879
<v Speaker 2>that worst case scenario. So we see Russia get the

0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:22.280
<v Speaker 2>territory that it's tried to claim, Ukraine's not allowed to

0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:26.280
<v Speaker 2>join NATO. If this war ends in that way, with

0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:30.679
<v Speaker 2>what seems like a victory for Russia, how will Ukrainians

0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:34.119
<v Speaker 2>tell the story of this war, of their fighting it,

0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:36.840
<v Speaker 2>of it lasting as long long as it did, if

0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:38.359
<v Speaker 2>it ends in a way that they don't want it to,

0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:39.960
<v Speaker 2>how are they going to tell the story of this war?

0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:44.399
<v Speaker 4>Well, for Ukrainians, this war is just another episode of

0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:47.560
<v Speaker 4>them trying to break with Russia. And you know, if

0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:49.960
<v Speaker 4>you look at throughout the history of Ukraine, it's the

0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:52.480
<v Speaker 4>stug of war in the country that's sort of stuck

0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:56.440
<v Speaker 4>between Europe and its bigger neighbor, much bigger neighbor that's

0:17:56.520 --> 0:18:00.600
<v Speaker 4>trying to just control them and sometimes did so. Being

0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:04.520
<v Speaker 4>abandoned and losing that war will be a huge disappointment,

0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:06.800
<v Speaker 4>obviously for the country and for the young people who

0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:09.760
<v Speaker 4>have been hoping that that will finally kind of bring

0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:11.119
<v Speaker 4>them closer to Europe.

0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:16.400
<v Speaker 2>This is The Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Gerrat.

0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:19.000
<v Speaker 2>To get more from The Big Take and unlimited access

0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:22.320
<v Speaker 2>to all of Bloomberg dot Com, subscribe today at Bloomberg

0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:25.960
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0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:28.159
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0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:30.680
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0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:33.040
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.