Speaker 1: On the Beck dol Cast, the questions asked if movies
Speaker 1: have women and um are all their discussions just boyfriends
Speaker 1: and husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef
Speaker 1: and best start changing it with the beck del Cast. Hello,
Speaker 1: and welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Jamie
Speaker 1: Loftus and my name is Caitlin Dronte, and this is
Speaker 1: our podcast about the portrayal of women in movies. You
Speaker 1: bet you, We talk you, Yeah, you bet you. Hey
Speaker 1: quick plug at the top of the show. What I
Speaker 1: know So not like crazy, but we have an important
Speaker 1: announcement that you may or may not already know about.
Speaker 1: But we're doing a bunch of live shows coming up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: get used to it. We're and and and and here's
Speaker 1: the twist. It's on both coasts, both coasts. Yes, we've
Speaker 1: got our East Coast. Are three days super tour coming
Speaker 1: up on the East Coast starting Saturday, November three in
Speaker 1: Philadelphia at Good Good Comedy Theater, which by the way,
Speaker 1: is run by past guest of the show, Kate Bamford.
Speaker 1: Yes it is. We're covering Waiting to Exhale with guest
Speaker 1: Aaron Whack at that show and then on Sunday, November four,
Speaker 1: we're doing a show in Washington, d C. Surprise, we're
Speaker 1: doing two shows, but one of them already sold out,
Speaker 1: so what's the point of even plugging that one? But
Speaker 1: there are still tickets left for the show that's on
Speaker 1: Sunday November four at three thirty pm and afternoon show
Speaker 1: after Bring Me a Mike's Baby. That one's at the
Speaker 1: Drafthouse Comedy Theater in Washington, d C. Uh And we're
Speaker 1: going to be covering The Nightmare Before Christmas with guest
Speaker 1: Natalie McGill. And finally, Monday, November five, in New York City,
Speaker 1: as part of the New York Comedy Festival, we are
Speaker 1: covering The Princess Diaries with Marshall bell Ski at Baby's
Speaker 1: all right, so we're stoked for that too. Yes. So
Speaker 1: for for tickets and more details, you can go to
Speaker 1: our website becktel Cats dot com, click on the live
Speaker 1: appearances tab and everything you need to know. We'll be
Speaker 1: there see there. Oh and then also the other coast,
Speaker 1: the West coast. Oh yeah, okay, So we also have
Speaker 1: a show on Saturday, November ten in Los Angeles at
Speaker 1: the Ruby, where we'll be covering the fifth Elements. I've
Speaker 1: never seen it with our guest and friend, Danielle Radford.
Speaker 1: She's the best, So for tickets to that show. Also
Speaker 1: got to bechtel cast dot com and click on live
Speaker 1: appearances and if you live in the middle of the country,
Speaker 1: let us know where we should be performing and we'd
Speaker 1: love to see you. Yeah, all right, kisses, bring me
Speaker 1: my hard lamon name. So we talk about the portrayal
Speaker 1: of women in movies, we use the Bechtel test to
Speaker 1: just give us a jumping off point. The Bechtel Test
Speaker 1: for us is a test that you apply to movies.
Speaker 1: It requires that there are two female identifying characters with names.
Speaker 1: They have to speak to each other, and their conversation
Speaker 1: cannot be about men. Sounds like a real boring movie.
Speaker 1: I know women should not talk, and if they do talk,
Speaker 1: they better. Men should be demo it really quick. Let's
Speaker 1: demo it, Okay, Kaitlin, Hey Jamie, how's your soccer game? Yesterday?
Speaker 1: My soccer game went well? We won. I know you
Speaker 1: want to go again. I'm a fan. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: The one and also the one time I went, someone
Speaker 1: got really very badly injured. So really a lot of
Speaker 1: a lot of juicy stuff at the soccer game, speaking
Speaker 1: of injuries that happened towards the end of something today's movie.
Speaker 1: So we're talking about cruel intentions. And here to join
Speaker 1: us in the conversation, we have a host of the
Speaker 1: Makeup and Beauty podcast, Match Beaute, Jackie Johnson Hippy. I'm
Speaker 1: so excited to discuss a movie that I'm embarrassed to
Speaker 1: say used to be a really important movie to me
Speaker 1: as a kid. I thought it was so good and funny.
Speaker 1: Don't be embarrassed. This is truly the story of this podcast.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm ashamed rewatching this. I was just shaking
Speaker 1: my what did the kids say, shake my damn head?
Speaker 1: I was shaking my damn head. I couldn't believe this movie.
Speaker 1: I cannot wait to discuss it. So, Jackie, what's your
Speaker 1: history with this movie? I saw this movie in theaters.
Speaker 1: I do believe my mom bought tickets for me, and
Speaker 1: I want to say my best friend Lauren Marty, because
Speaker 1: my mom's like cool like that kind of like the
Speaker 1: cool mom. Yeah, so, you know, very open parenting style.
Speaker 1: Because I wanted to see pacy ak Joshua Jackson. I
Speaker 1: saw him on like MTV news, like Kurt Loder was like, Hey,
Speaker 1: what's up. There's a new movie out. You know, Joshua
Speaker 1: Jackson Star on the Rise, got this little part, and
Speaker 1: I said, I'm seeing that one please. So I went
Speaker 1: and saw it. I loved it. I thought it was hysterical.
Speaker 1: I love the music. I loved all the hot actors
Speaker 1: in it. I mean, I this movie up with a spoon.
Speaker 1: I quoted it all throughout my youth. I still, unfortunately
Speaker 1: have it memorized because long term memory it sticks. It
Speaker 1: sticks with Jaggie Ja so m I but I hadn't
Speaker 1: rewatched it in a while. And can I just say
Speaker 1: that this movie is very problematic now in any ways,
Speaker 1: and we're going to get into it, but damn, I'm
Speaker 1: just I'm telling you this is what women are shown.
Speaker 1: Of Course, we all have issues. Of course, we all
Speaker 1: have problems in the pagriarchy taking us down. I mean,
Speaker 1: this movie is complete garbage in terms of women and
Speaker 1: treatment and the me too movement and just god, I'm
Speaker 1: ashamed of everyone involved me I think, although I will
Speaker 1: say soundtrack on fleek. Soundtrack, I mean, like the Placebo
Speaker 1: song opening it up, color Blind, you know, coffee and
Speaker 1: TV by Blur Love Me by the Card Against. I mean, damn,
Speaker 1: the music is on point, but everything else it's upset down.
Speaker 1: That's going to be my new favorite thing. Whenever something
Speaker 1: completely baffling happens plot wise out of nowhere in a movie,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna be like, do do do do? Do? Do Do? Do? Do? Do?
Speaker 1: The way it ends is so psycho. My My history
Speaker 1: with this movie is um just for for all you
Speaker 1: beg to land out there. Caitlin and Sammy and I
Speaker 1: hung out after the live show the other night, the
Speaker 1: Edward Scissorhands Show, and watched Cruel Intentions and Eight Chicken
Speaker 1: Wings and boy, that was my first time seeing I
Speaker 1: can't believe you wouldn't see it. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: How did you not say that I hadn't seen it? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And I saw it like away two days before our screening.
Speaker 1: It's so weird. So it was a huge I mean
Speaker 1: among my circle of friends and my culture, like growing
Speaker 1: up in like the late nineties, early two thousands in Dallas,
Speaker 1: suburb real Dallas, this movie was huge. We all quoted it,
Speaker 1: we watched it. I mean, I remember, like, let's all
Speaker 1: watch David Days and like we popp and Coral Intentions
Speaker 1: and have a laugh. So the fact y'all hadn't seen this,
Speaker 1: I'm sure I think we're the weird ones, though I
Speaker 1: think for sure. Yeah, I don't know how I missed
Speaker 1: it either, because in ninety nine I was thirteen, like
Speaker 1: I was the age prime demo, because I think I
Speaker 1: was like fourteen. Yeah, yeah, ninety nine is the year
Speaker 1: of teens lying to each other and making bets to
Speaker 1: have sex with other teens, because this is the year
Speaker 1: that cool Intentions comes out, that ten Things I Hate
Speaker 1: about You comes out, that She's All that comes out.
Speaker 1: So it's just like, what a time to be a lot,
Speaker 1: I know, and honestly a beautiful time. What a beautiful
Speaker 1: I mean, looking back, there were some damn issues, but
Speaker 1: I love that era. Being a kid of that era
Speaker 1: was such a perfect time to me. It was fun
Speaker 1: music day on the fashion, there was so so much
Speaker 1: of a blank when Andy two was thriving. It was
Speaker 1: SI to the movies. Though we're instanley problematic and influenced
Speaker 1: our young brain hundred percent. But yeah, somehow I missed
Speaker 1: Cruel Intentions. Didn't see it until last week, And this
Speaker 1: is I think the most insane movie we've covered on
Speaker 1: the podcast where it's like it's gets so problematic that
Speaker 1: I just grew numb and was just enjoying the ride
Speaker 1: because I was just like, this movie is a string
Speaker 1: of like really pithy sexual assaults. The whole movie is
Speaker 1: like quip quip, and now I'm coercing someone into sex
Speaker 1: who doesn't actually mean Sebastian is a fuck boy to
Speaker 1: a T. If you google funck boy, he'll come up,
Speaker 1: you know with that rama noodle j T Hair, I
Speaker 1: mean he This movie triggered me in so many ways,
Speaker 1: and let's talk about it, because damn it, I'm fired
Speaker 1: up Monday morning. I'm fired up for The one moment
Speaker 1: in the movie that really absolutely destroyed me is because
Speaker 1: a lot of the scenes that are supposed to be
Speaker 1: sexy in this movie are not sexy at all. They're
Speaker 1: completely like or for me. Anyways, There's that one scene
Speaker 1: where Sarah Michelle Geller is supposed to be like teasing
Speaker 1: Ryan Filippy, which is I love that. I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: say his name like that. Yeah, my mom thinks Ryan
Speaker 1: Phillippi's name was pronounced flippy like f l I P
Speaker 1: p y so so Sarah Michelle Geller is teasing quote
Speaker 1: unquote Ryan Philippe, and she's like laying on him sunny
Speaker 1: side up and just sort of like moving her body
Speaker 1: around on him like a limp noodle. And then he's
Speaker 1: like looking almost to camera with this like very disturbing
Speaker 1: erection phase. And it was the least sexy thing I've
Speaker 1: ever seen, is like this sunny side up gyration, and
Speaker 1: his hands on the body were like so like you
Speaker 1: could see the pressure he was putting on her, like
Speaker 1: palming her, like he wasn't groping her or even like
Speaker 1: softly caressing her. It was like a wet fish, just
Speaker 1: like slapping against her arm. It felt bad for both
Speaker 1: of them in that scene because like that was the
Speaker 1: kind of like supposed to be sexy scene where you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: there are thirty people in the room with them, and
Speaker 1: it shows she was America sweetheart at this moment. She
Speaker 1: was buff, being homophobic, being sociopath narcissists. Dare I say cruel?
Speaker 1: I mean this movie, let's tell Yeah, So let me
Speaker 1: do the recap of the story, which, oh god, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll do my best. So the story focuses on Catherine,
Speaker 1: which is Sarah Michelle Geller's character and Sebastian, which is
Speaker 1: Ryan Philippe. They are step siblings who lived together in
Speaker 1: New York City and they are like rich kid private
Speaker 1: school elites, and they are also the worst people in
Speaker 1: the world old Throughout the movie we see them like
Speaker 1: using people, they're manipulating people, and generally they have cruel intentions.
Speaker 1: Stop it, I believe it or not, it's not an
Speaker 1: ironic title. So Catherine meets uh cetile Selma Blair's character,
Speaker 1: who's Cell Blair by the way, in this movie playing
Speaker 1: a fifteen year old huh okay, had to get that
Speaker 1: out there. Yeah, that's Hollywood baby, Yeah, I mean that's egregious,
Speaker 1: that's wild yea. And in order to like compensate for
Speaker 1: the fact that she's playing a character over ten years
Speaker 1: and she actually is, but she's acting so obscenely childlike
Speaker 1: that it's she like overdid it, and it's just very distracting.
Speaker 1: Not to put some on blast, but really bad jobs.
Speaker 1: I really liked her performance as a when I saw
Speaker 1: it as a kid, I thought she was hyah paride.
Speaker 1: I mean they directed her to act like that, so
Speaker 1: it's really not on her. So Cecile is starting school
Speaker 1: with Katherine in the Fall, and Katherine does not like
Speaker 1: Cecil because she stole Katherine's boyfriend Court. So Katherine wants
Speaker 1: to ruin Cecil's reputation so that Court won't like her anymore. Right,
Speaker 1: boyfriend named after a place to play a sport. It's
Speaker 1: a super like old money name Court. Yes, I'm so
Speaker 1: lower middle class, but I had no idea. Never already
Speaker 1: my fair share of courts. They were all Fiji's, okay,
Speaker 1: all my Greeks out there. Oh boy. So now Katherine
Speaker 1: asks her stepbrothers Sebastian to seduce Cecile so that it
Speaker 1: ruins her goody goody reputation. Meanwhile, Sebastian is like, I'm
Speaker 1: tired of having sex with all these debutantes. They're so boring,
Speaker 1: So he wants more of a conquest and he learns
Speaker 1: about a net, which is Reese Witherspoon's character, who is
Speaker 1: also going to be starting at their school in the Fall.
Speaker 1: Reese is still great in this movie, is even though
Speaker 1: the dialogue is so cheesy and horrific at times, they
Speaker 1: all sell it. They do. They're committing to sure. That's
Speaker 1: why looking back at this movie, you're like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: what happened. So a nets whole thing is that she's
Speaker 1: a virgin and that she's waiting to have sex, presumably
Speaker 1: till marriage, or like at least till she finds someone
Speaker 1: who she's in love with. So Sebastian decides that he's
Speaker 1: going to make a net his conquest and take her virginity.
Speaker 1: And Katherine's all like, you can't do that. That's out
Speaker 1: of your league, even for you. So she's like, let's
Speaker 1: make a wager. If Katherine wins, she gets Sebastian's cool
Speaker 1: convertible car. If he wins, he can fuck her in
Speaker 1: any hole he wants. We need to, like every nineties
Speaker 1: teen movie is made of an a very sinister assaulted
Speaker 1: bet yes where it's she and then sings Sarah Michelle
Speaker 1: Geller in that sinister shot where she's like, what is
Speaker 1: what's the last? You like? Any She's like anyway, and
Speaker 1: then you're just like, I hate this. I like that
Speaker 1: she sex positive and confident in herself. Yes, and we'll
Speaker 1: talk about she gives like a monologue that's it's worth
Speaker 1: unpacking everywhere. Yes, yes for sure. Yeah, And then side note,
Speaker 1: Sebastian has a journal that he's keeping where he details
Speaker 1: all of his you know, like bets and lies and
Speaker 1: conquests and stuff with all these women. So you were
Speaker 1: saying it's an early incarnation of the mean Girls Burned,
Speaker 1: but I also feel it's sort of like his zanga
Speaker 1: or his tumbler. Yeah, analog or perhaps like journals, you know,
Speaker 1: like what what would be our equivalent? Right? Yeah, So
Speaker 1: now Sebastian, he's going, he's trying to seduce a net
Speaker 1: and she it is not having it at first, and
Speaker 1: then meanwhile, but wear her dad, don't worry, don't you
Speaker 1: don't you worry? One group at a time, right, Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: one nagging at a time, god, one monster. One just
Speaker 1: being in a pool exposing himself. Yeah, he's like, me,
Speaker 1: show you what we're implying is a horse's dick, but
Speaker 1: we don't actually see it. So there's no receipts on
Speaker 1: the size of Ryan Philippe's penis, but the butt is good. However,
Speaker 1: he is fully exposing himself without her consent, and she's like,
Speaker 1: oh this is and then he yells at her for
Speaker 1: her to turn around because the owners this movie fucking
Speaker 1: upset me. I no wonder I like had such an
Speaker 1: issue with you know, like when you're at a party
Speaker 1: and a guy like touches your lower back and you
Speaker 1: just kind of go along with it because you're like, well,
Speaker 1: I don't want to be rude. It's like, no wonder
Speaker 1: that should happened to me in my twenties because of
Speaker 1: this fucking movie. Right nowadays, if somebody did that, I go, hey,
Speaker 1: get your fucking hand off me. Anyway, keep going clearly
Speaker 1: sucking upset. This movie up set me. He's just going
Speaker 1: to be a therapy sessions, just like the movie is
Speaker 1: condescending to where did you know? It's in this scene
Speaker 1: like right after where Sebastian takes Cecil's virginity, there's a
Speaker 1: bowl of cherries next to the bed, and it's just like,
Speaker 1: come on right, sorry, I wonder what they're trying to say.
Speaker 1: They're okay. So meanwhile, Cecile, she's into her cellow teacher Ronald.
Speaker 1: Catherine's teaching sectial how to kiss so she can be
Speaker 1: good at kissing Ronald because we've got to please men, right,
Speaker 1: got to get that kiss. I'm a great kiss also,
Speaker 1: all of that a great kiss boy. Then Sebastian assaults Cecile,
Speaker 1: but that is not what the movie would have you
Speaker 1: believe happened. They think it's funny. Man, there's some goofy
Speaker 1: music playing in the background. There's some we should make
Speaker 1: a super good of, like assaults happening in movies with
Speaker 1: a goofy soundtrack. Benny Hill like, no, no, he's so
Speaker 1: this character that we are already supposed to be suspending
Speaker 1: or disbelieved to be, like, oh, she's fifty. The way
Speaker 1: that scene goes is he basically is like, you have
Speaker 1: to kiss me. He's like he says like yeah. He's
Speaker 1: like all I want is a kiss, and she's like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's all. She essentially wants to leave. She's like, I'm uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: I'm leaving because he's basically says, get naked. I want
Speaker 1: to take your picture. She says, I want to leave.
Speaker 1: He goes, you can't leave, traps her and blackmails her,
Speaker 1: I'm going to call your mom and tell her. So
Speaker 1: she's I'll do anything, Please don't tell my mom. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: let me kiss you. She goes, okay, I guess, and
Speaker 1: then he grabs the draw strong of her pants, pulls
Speaker 1: her pants down, and she's like, what are you doing,
Speaker 1: what are you doing? Clearly upset and he goes, you
Speaker 1: said I could kiss you and just starts going down
Speaker 1: and then a promise is a promise? Gilts her into
Speaker 1: it will unpack this whole scene in a moment, but
Speaker 1: it's upsetting up. Meanwhile, Annette and Sebastian are falling in love,
Speaker 1: like what, And then Katherine has sex with Ronald the
Speaker 1: cello teacher, and then Sebastian and finally have sex, which
Speaker 1: makes Katherine jealous because she's like, I thought I was
Speaker 1: going to have sex with my stepbrother, which she apparently
Speaker 1: wanted to do anywhere. So Katherine's like, oh, your reputation
Speaker 1: is going to be ruined Sebastian if you you know,
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. So he's like, you're right, I am
Speaker 1: going to tell Annette that I don't love her, and
Speaker 1: then she's like, you eightyot, you ran away from love
Speaker 1: the first chance you've got, just because you thought I
Speaker 1: was going to ruin your reputation. And then he's like,
Speaker 1: you're right, I'm an idiot. So he goes and tries
Speaker 1: to make amends with Annette, and then there's a crazy
Speaker 1: scene where he and Ronald get in a fist fight,
Speaker 1: he's thrown into traffic. He gets hit by a cab
Speaker 1: and not hard, and then in an accident that would
Speaker 1: maybe break a couple of ribs but not kill him,
Speaker 1: but he dies. The end of the movie is Catherine
Speaker 1: at like the funeral service, and she's like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: Oh how sad. And then there's something like bustling around
Speaker 1: in the crowd. She's like, what's going on? And then
Speaker 1: she goes outside and everyone has a copy of Sebastian's journal,
Speaker 1: which outs her as this horrible, manipulative kid, cruel intentioned woman.
Speaker 1: It also outs Sebastian as a horrible person, which no
Speaker 1: one seems to care about. And then it ends with
Speaker 1: Reese Witherspoon driving Ryan Phillippies creepy journal into the sunset
Speaker 1: because they're still in love. Even in Ryan Phillippes death,
Speaker 1: she still loves him. And somehow she got the pink
Speaker 1: slip for the car, which y'all never understand. How did
Speaker 1: he put that in his will knowing that he was
Speaker 1: going to get it by a m after meeting her
Speaker 1: a week ago, But somehow the bitch got the jag.
Speaker 1: She drives away with it and that's the end. So
Speaker 1: she won the bet. She actually I the fact that
Speaker 1: it's they're supposed to be. She's insulted in the journal
Speaker 1: we see it's like, stupid, bit, you won't fuck and
Speaker 1: then she's like, I love him forever and then drives
Speaker 1: away in his car. I was like, what the funk
Speaker 1: is this movie? Like, usually, when I'm seeing one of
Speaker 1: these movies for the first time, you can at least understand, like, oh,
Speaker 1: I understand, even though I find it to be problematic
Speaker 1: and fucked up, I can understand what this was supposed
Speaker 1: to have been viewed when it came out that I
Speaker 1: can't get there. I can't get to they're still in love.
Speaker 1: I think you know too far away, because I'm telling
Speaker 1: you I love this movie and I didn't see anything
Speaker 1: wrong with it. I'm ashamed to say that, but that's
Speaker 1: truly teenager truth. I mean, it's unfortunate that that's the
Speaker 1: culture that I grew up in, but that's what we
Speaker 1: were given to consume as media. And I thought this
Speaker 1: movie was hilarious, funny, I thought I was great, and
Speaker 1: I'm this movie sucks. It sucking, sucks, it sucks. And
Speaker 1: with with that, let's take a quick break and then
Speaker 1: we will be back to unpacked the intentions that are
Speaker 1: cruel and we're back, all right. So yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: where to jump in? How about within the first five
Speaker 1: minutes of the movie, Sebastian has revenge porn an innocent person. Yes,
Speaker 1: how about that, that's a good place to start. He assaults,
Speaker 1: I would argue his therapist verbally, sexually, and then he
Speaker 1: revenge points her daughter. Huh just because for no reason,
Speaker 1: just her fun. He says later that she did that
Speaker 1: because she was overcharging him for therapy, and so you know,
Speaker 1: how do you compensate for that? Is with human body?
Speaker 1: And it's oh, it's just horrible. So yeah, right away
Speaker 1: we learn about what a cruel intentioned man Sebastian is.
Speaker 1: And then the conversation that his therapist has with her daughter,
Speaker 1: who is played by Terror Reid, Terry's are like, he
Speaker 1: put nude pictures of me on the internet, And then
Speaker 1: her mom says, how could you be so stupid? So
Speaker 1: she's a victim blaming her own daughter. The Bechtel test
Speaker 1: passing exchange what they like, you dumb slut, your dumb slut,
Speaker 1: you dumb slut. And then Terry's like, Mom, are you there?
Speaker 1: She like that does pass its test, So yeah, that's
Speaker 1: gets up Sebastian's character pretty well. And then he continues
Speaker 1: throughout the rest of the movie to keep doing heinous
Speaker 1: things like this, except that he's the kind were rooting for.
Speaker 1: He does nothing to redeem himself at all. I would
Speaker 1: argue he gets hit by a car. That's the best
Speaker 1: thing he does in the whole movie is die. And
Speaker 1: this is one again one of those movies that it
Speaker 1: seems very prevalent in the eighties and nineties and and
Speaker 1: probably the two thousands as well, where it's like rich
Speaker 1: kids saying, like, my parents who love me and give
Speaker 1: me everything I want fuck them, like and and we're
Speaker 1: supposed to be like my hero just so bizarre. Well,
Speaker 1: we never meet their parents in this movie, so it's
Speaker 1: kind of hard to tell what their relationship is like.
Speaker 1: But it's still like we have to assume perhaps not great,
Speaker 1: perhaps not great. I think they're both seeking attention from
Speaker 1: a really sad place due to the fact that your
Speaker 1: parents can be rich and give you, you know, physically
Speaker 1: anything you want aunt but if they're not giving you
Speaker 1: attention and love, then you know, none of that matters,
Speaker 1: and I think that's clearly what's happening. The parents are
Speaker 1: off dealing with their own ship all the time, and
Speaker 1: the kids are desperately seeking attention, right literally fucking each
Speaker 1: other their sunny side up in each other. Like keep
Speaker 1: an eye on these kids. So I want to talk
Speaker 1: about the romantic pursuit, specifically of Sebastian pursuing a Net
Speaker 1: because she's heard that he has a bad reputation and
Speaker 1: she immediately doesn't like him. She says the line, it
Speaker 1: amazes me that someone is charming as you could be
Speaker 1: so manipulative, which they kind of go hand right, right.
Speaker 1: It's like Reads is supposed to be a smart character, right.
Speaker 1: And then in the first few scenes that we see
Speaker 1: her in talking to Sebastian, she is like, she seems smart,
Speaker 1: She is headstrong, She has like a value system that
Speaker 1: she is not wavering from. She calls him out on
Speaker 1: his book ship. You know. The first thing he does
Speaker 1: is when he they meet, she's on a horse, he
Speaker 1: literally grabs her body to get her off the horse
Speaker 1: for no reason. And she doesn't call him out. She
Speaker 1: kind of looks at him and goes thank you, which
Speaker 1: again that's what I would have done in this situation
Speaker 1: at her age, and I probably did, but pass me off.
Speaker 1: I wish you would have gone, hey, why don't you
Speaker 1: grab me? I can get off the horse on my own, right,
Speaker 1: you take my hand. He literally grow us her body. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh do you need help. It's like he won't let
Speaker 1: one thing go by without being a fucking creeper in
Speaker 1: every way. It's awful. And then and characters like Reese's
Speaker 1: almost sucked me even more because it sells that like
Speaker 1: false idea of like, oh, this girl is smart, this
Speaker 1: girl is capable, which which is true. But then the
Speaker 1: second she can fall for a fucking psycho creep, she
Speaker 1: does immediately, which just sells the idea to like young
Speaker 1: smart girls of like, no, you should do this anyway.
Speaker 1: It's like you, you know, you can be sure, yet
Speaker 1: like girl power, you can be smart, but you still
Speaker 1: have to funk every creep who hits on you. Like
Speaker 1: it's just horrible. And part of the reason that she
Speaker 1: falls for him is because he's lying to her and
Speaker 1: he's having other people lie on his behalf about Oh,
Speaker 1: his reputation, it's bullshit. You know, he's actually a pretty
Speaker 1: nice guy. What do you think about his homophobic blackmail
Speaker 1: who could forget we'll unpack that. But then he's you know,
Speaker 1: pursuing her as a bet for most of the time,
Speaker 1: but then he actually does start to develop feelings for her.
Speaker 1: And then that's the movie asking us to be sympathetic
Speaker 1: to him and root for him because he's sofening up.
Speaker 1: He was a bad he was a cruel intentioned guy,
Speaker 1: but now makes one goofy face and he's like, you
Speaker 1: know what, I'm a changed man. But also he isn't. No,
Speaker 1: he's not, and to the very end of the movie,
Speaker 1: he's still being horrible to everyone around him. But again,
Speaker 1: this is the movie, like we are, the movie is
Speaker 1: asking us to root for him. He's our protagonists who
Speaker 1: were like, oh, I hope he succeeds, and even though
Speaker 1: he dies, we're supposed to feel something about it, or
Speaker 1: that's what the movie wants us to feel. And I'm
Speaker 1: sure you know, as a young teen who saw this movie,
Speaker 1: uh yeah, everyone was like, oh no, he died, that's
Speaker 1: so sad. Oh now the death is so weird. That
Speaker 1: death is so it's like lazy writing. It's a d
Speaker 1: sex market. Yeah, like, let's just kill him. And ever
Speaker 1: they were like, Okay, here we are. We're backed into
Speaker 1: a corner here, so we're gonna have him, you know,
Speaker 1: give her the journal. She's gonna read it, change your mind.
Speaker 1: She's on the street, she's looking for him. Uh what
Speaker 1: do we do, guys? I don't know. We can't buy
Speaker 1: a taxi cut in print. I mean, it's very lazy.
Speaker 1: I also don't understand how her receiving his journal makes
Speaker 1: her realize, oh, he does love me after all, because
Speaker 1: in the journal he explains his plan to manipulate her
Speaker 1: and steal her virginity. Yeah, and then she's like, cool, dude, dude,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, she's obviously very easily manipulated. I
Speaker 1: think he definitely added an addendum at the end that
Speaker 1: was like, but throughout this process, I actually felt for her,
Speaker 1: and I've changed and I feel terrible. And she accepted
Speaker 1: the apology, you know, so that's why that happened. But
Speaker 1: can I just say they showed a page of the
Speaker 1: book of his journal at the end, the photo copies.
Speaker 1: I paused TV. I couldn't read that ship. That was
Speaker 1: the worst handwriting I ever. It was like a doctor prescription,
Speaker 1: like scribble, and I was like, who fucking read this?
Speaker 1: Can any of these kids read this ship? I couldn't
Speaker 1: read a damn word of it, so who knows what
Speaker 1: he even said. But the takeaway of that journal is
Speaker 1: supposed to be Yah, Sarah Michelle Geller's a real bit
Speaker 1: like he gets let off the hook essentially why yeah?
Speaker 1: And then and then also there's like the teacher who
Speaker 1: comes up behind her and like takes away her coke necklace, which, narratively,
Speaker 1: how could he have seen that already? He hasn't come outside,
Speaker 1: But sure, fine, they're good. Plan didn't think about that.
Speaker 1: I mean when that happened in the theater, I remember
Speaker 1: just being like, yaw, queen, Like I was like, damn,
Speaker 1: revenge is a bitter fucking you know fish. I thought
Speaker 1: that was like the coolest I'm telling you, I ate
Speaker 1: that ship up. When he pulls out the scoop and
Speaker 1: it flies in the air and the look on her face,
Speaker 1: I was just like, yeah, drugs, look at you nowhere, man,
Speaker 1: Like I love them. The one good message of the movie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: although I did google, well, I didn't google, but I
Speaker 1: was like I want one of those. Not that I
Speaker 1: do coke, but I was like, I want like a
Speaker 1: drug necklace. That to me was a really exciting idea.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'll put my like my emergency powder in it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: your vitamin B twelve supplements to give you energy. Well,
Speaker 1: like Jamie, like you were saying, Sebastian has completely let
Speaker 1: off the hook, like he he is just as complicit
Speaker 1: and just as much of a villain. More. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: didn't see Sarah Michelle Geller rape anybody, because he assaulted Ceceeal.
Speaker 1: He is assaulted type yes, like and and and that's
Speaker 1: just the movie what we saw, Like imagine the back
Speaker 1: pages that book. A bunch of women at that school.
Speaker 1: How do you think they're feeling right now, because you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, like how horrible. Their whole lives
Speaker 1: were just blasted on front of everybody, and he out everyone,
Speaker 1: including himself. And this movie takes place over the course
Speaker 1: of three or four days, and so it's like he's
Speaker 1: been doing this for a little longer than that. But
Speaker 1: even so, maybe a week or two crazy because because
Speaker 1: he and rees haven't known each other for more than
Speaker 1: a little more than a week, maybe it's hard. Well
Speaker 1: that's I think this is other four School gets back.
Speaker 1: But at the beginning of the movie that Cecil was like, oh,
Speaker 1: Ronald's teaching me Cello over the summer, as if the
Speaker 1: movie takes place over the course of a whole summer.
Speaker 1: It's really it's unclear. It makes it seem like it's
Speaker 1: a few days. It could be as much as a month,
Speaker 1: or a couple of months, or right like a week.
Speaker 1: It's it's hard to tell. Probably not thinking about it
Speaker 1: that hard. In the people writing this movie, you're not
Speaker 1: concerned about consistency, the value of a human life. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of things they're not worried about. It's just
Speaker 1: insane to me. The movie poises Sebastian is like, oh,
Speaker 1: he redeemed himself, And I wonder if they made him
Speaker 1: die just to make him seem more sympathetic, because otherwise
Speaker 1: the story is Sebastian and a net ending up together.
Speaker 1: And then it's like, well, what does that relationship look
Speaker 1: like then, because like now she knows the truth, and
Speaker 1: like where do you go from? How do you build?
Speaker 1: I don't know the origin, I haven't read the source material,
Speaker 1: but does that character get hit by a taxi and
Speaker 1: they give their journal out or how? I don't know.
Speaker 1: Cruel Intentions is adapted from a novel by a man
Speaker 1: whose name is so French that I cannot beare something
Speaker 1: it was written in seventeen eighty two or published then,
Speaker 1: which absolutely tracks and and keeps with this at another
Speaker 1: late nineties trend of like trying to adapt like old
Speaker 1: ask books into movies for teenagers. Um, right, because she's
Speaker 1: all that was an adaptation of Pygmalion, right, yes, and
Speaker 1: Ten Things I Hate About You was a Shakespeare So yeah.
Speaker 1: It's another another sinister media trend where everything is derivative.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like, oh, the sexes ins in the
Speaker 1: late seventeen hundred is still applicable today and apparently, I
Speaker 1: mean no one proved them wrong. Um, and the book,
Speaker 1: it looks like the Ryan Phillippe character dies in a duel,
Speaker 1: like in the fight with Ronald, so I guess they're like, well,
Speaker 1: we can't have Ronald kill him because that would be
Speaker 1: out of nowhere, and they can't duel, so let's just
Speaker 1: do the yark. He also died saving saving Annette. He
Speaker 1: died a hero. Annette was trying to break up the
Speaker 1: fight and she got flung into traffic and got up
Speaker 1: very slowly, let's be honest, very very slowly, and She's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm in the middle of the street. Oh a car
Speaker 1: is coming what? And Sebastian pushes her out of the
Speaker 1: way to save her and in turn gets hit. So
Speaker 1: maybe that's another element to why everyone's forgiven him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know the movie jumping in front of a
Speaker 1: cab for somebody, that's very I don't people, I can
Speaker 1: think of it like that. Would I guess I would
Speaker 1: probably do it no matter what. Instinctively, sure, because I'm
Speaker 1: such a people pleaser. But I hope I don't find
Speaker 1: out if I'm being honest. But if we do die
Speaker 1: is people pass just die in the pursuit of trying
Speaker 1: not to give a perceiving Yeah, I mean the cab
Speaker 1: was going what also like screeched on his brakes, like
Speaker 1: you heard him screeched his break so by the decelerating
Speaker 1: is slowed down where I know, right, we're not doctors.
Speaker 1: Sebastian has some kind of like um autoimmune disease where
Speaker 1: he was we you know, he bruises easily, and the
Speaker 1: blood somewhere he would have been carrying bruises from the
Speaker 1: sunny side up. Then then when it cuts to him
Speaker 1: and his injuries, he has a few scratches on his
Speaker 1: forehead and he has some bloody knuckles and that's it, like,
Speaker 1: you know, unless he's got some like severe hemorrhagame or
Speaker 1: like a traumatic brain injury. Like right when we're not
Speaker 1: on the adaptation, this is not the only adaptation of
Speaker 1: this French novel that came out, Dangerous Liaisons based on
Speaker 1: the same fucking book. Yes, I can't remember it or not,
Speaker 1: but I have not seen it. But I will watch
Speaker 1: anything with Glenn Close in it, so I will wash
Speaker 1: it or wait, dangerously that's not the one where she
Speaker 1: cooks his bunny, right, That's what I was just thinking
Speaker 1: that say attraction, Yes, I got it. I also, when
Speaker 1: we were watching this movie, thought we were watching I
Speaker 1: thought cruel Intentions. I was like, oh, that's the one
Speaker 1: where Kathy Bates locks a guy in a house. That's misery.
Speaker 1: So I was in for a full well, I thought
Speaker 1: we were watching misery. We were not. We're watching something
Speaker 1: way worse pretty much, but just as violent. And and
Speaker 1: say which I mean really quick, say what you will
Speaker 1: about this movie. But Christine Branski does play a character
Speaker 1: named Bunny, so not all bad. Well, she's incredible in
Speaker 1: the movie, although problematic in many ways. She slays Arsky,
Speaker 1: I have no notes. Let's talk about that for a moment.
Speaker 1: So there is an interracial romance between Cecile and Ronald.
Speaker 1: Ronald is fooling. And also, if my daughter brought home
Speaker 1: a Juilliard composer Chells, I'd be like, honey, thank you,
Speaker 1: you did a good job. But he's not good enough.
Speaker 1: So mainstream movies generally do not like to feature interracial
Speaker 1: romances on screen. When they do, it's often a big
Speaker 1: plot point of the movie, rather than just treating that
Speaker 1: relationship like it's a normal thing that doesn't need to
Speaker 1: be heavily commented on. So movies like Get Out, Guess
Speaker 1: Who's Coming to Dinner, Save the Last Dance, Jungle Fever, Holes,
Speaker 1: Our Favorite Loving Um, just to name a few, they
Speaker 1: all have major plot points that derive like like that
Speaker 1: that sounds like I never was anywhere. I mean this,
Speaker 1: I can't believe I haven't seen it, being a huge fan,
Speaker 1: I've read the book. Oh the movie is pretty good, Okay,
Speaker 1: so um, these movies all have major plot points that
Speaker 1: derive from two people of different races being together. I
Speaker 1: would say a recent recent exception to this is to
Speaker 1: all the boys I've loved before. Um, I still gotta
Speaker 1: watch it. Oh it's good. Have you seen Greatest Showman? Yes,
Speaker 1: that one has one too. Oh right, but oh god,
Speaker 1: that movie was terrible. Um I cried twice. But that's fine.
Speaker 1: Oh sure, sure I would probably cry. I would probably
Speaker 1: hate it and cry. That's a really good Basically, I
Speaker 1: just think that there should be more stories that normalize
Speaker 1: an interracial relationship, rather than saying, like, oh my fucking god,
Speaker 1: look how big of a freaking deal it is for
Speaker 1: a white person to date a non white person, but
Speaker 1: they really talk about it. So Cruel Intentions makes a
Speaker 1: fairly big deal of an interracial relationship where uh Cecile
Speaker 1: as a white woman and her cello teacher Ronald is
Speaker 1: a black man, and they are in love, and Catherine
Speaker 1: uses their interracial relationship as fuel to seek revenge on
Speaker 1: Cecil by telling Cecil's disapproving racist mother. Well, it also
Speaker 1: doesn't help that the only black man in this movie
Speaker 1: is praying on a child. Right. We we don't know
Speaker 1: how old he is, right, but he's attending pre Juilliard,
Speaker 1: which I don't know what that means or what age
Speaker 1: that would make it's possible he's also a child. I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess because you know, I agree with all all that.
Speaker 1: I will say, like when you are somebody's teacher, there's
Speaker 1: a power dynamic and I'm not a fan of that.
Speaker 1: I mean, have you y'all have taken improv classes in
Speaker 1: this town? You know how it goes men teachers, you know,
Speaker 1: So it's not cute. Sometimes totally agree. So like the
Speaker 1: fact that the only man of color is abusing the
Speaker 1: power dynamic, whether he's a child or not. Although I
Speaker 1: will say he didn't touch her, but those letters are
Speaker 1: a little creepy, the letters. He does get behind her
Speaker 1: and like, yeah, that's the first thing you see him.
Speaker 1: And where he's like he's behind her is his arms
Speaker 1: are around her under the guys with like let me
Speaker 1: teach you how to play cello, but it's really like,
Speaker 1: let me put my crotch right up against your ass.
Speaker 1: Ghost scene. Yeah, pottery getting made in this scene. No,
Speaker 1: it's jest a guy hitting on a kid. But the
Speaker 1: twist is the kids twenty seven. It's very confused. Anyone
Speaker 1: could be any age in this movie. So I think
Speaker 1: Zembe Blair gave birth to half the cast's it's hard
Speaker 1: to know what's going on. And then we see that
Speaker 1: same play out where like Mrs Caldwell is like Ronald,
Speaker 1: how could you I got you off the streets and
Speaker 1: he's like, I live at park what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: And then he's saying like, I never touched your daughter,
Speaker 1: and I thought someone of your stature would look beyond
Speaker 1: racial lines. And she's like, oh, don't give me that
Speaker 1: racist crap. I gave money to Colin Powell, which but there,
Speaker 1: I mean, the bare minimum done here is that the
Speaker 1: racist character is clearly wrong and silly, right, but the
Speaker 1: subtext of everything is still extremely bad, right, because he's
Speaker 1: still praying on the kid. And then again Catherine, who
Speaker 1: is the villain of the movie, even though Sebastian is
Speaker 1: actually the villain of the movie, but the movie wants
Speaker 1: you to love him. But Catherine is like exploiting the
Speaker 1: fact that two people love each other and because they
Speaker 1: happen to be of a different race, She's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I can like use this as fuel to get back
Speaker 1: at Cecile, which, like Cecile literally did nothing to her, right, nothing, nothing, nothing.
Speaker 1: She doesn't have enough brain power to do much. It's
Speaker 1: like she you know, basically this is an ego thing.
Speaker 1: Katherine dated a guy court and something happened. We don't
Speaker 1: really know. There's a quick little scene of her like
Speaker 1: going down on him while he's passed out, but it's
Speaker 1: basically he started seeing Cecile and she her ego said,
Speaker 1: you don't me for her? Oh buck her, which is
Speaker 1: such an issue among women, like if listen, it's never
Speaker 1: the other woman, it's the guy. It's never the other woman,
Speaker 1: it's the guy. Do not hate on the other woman,
Speaker 1: it's the guy. I'm telling you from experience. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: we talked about this a lot on the podcast because
Speaker 1: we come up upon many relationships between and it's often
Speaker 1: teen girls, but in movies it shows two women just
Speaker 1: like being in conflict with each other for reasons that
Speaker 1: aren't fully explored, just because you know, the older white
Speaker 1: men who are writing these movies are like, teen girls
Speaker 1: can't get along, so let's just make sure that's in
Speaker 1: the movie. So but that's why we all learn from it,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean I've been in many, not many.
Speaker 1: I've been in a few squabbles with girls that are
Speaker 1: currently with my ex or there I'm with their ex,
Speaker 1: and all of them. Eventually I go, yeah, that was dumb.
Speaker 1: This is silly. But movies like this reinforced the idea that, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm saying, gotta women against each other, go against all
Speaker 1: this upbringing. I'm a fucking miracle sitting in front of
Speaker 1: you right now. Evolved is a fucking miracle. Personally, I
Speaker 1: recommend forming a league of exes. I have. I'm a
Speaker 1: part of several leagues of exes where Scott Pilgrim there
Speaker 1: to know because that movie Problemax but there. But you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes I've dated a lot of losers, and uh, sometimes
Speaker 1: losers get to have sex with a bunch of cool
Speaker 1: ladies and then the cool has become friends, and then
Speaker 1: the loser has to stop performing stand up comedy. It's great.
Speaker 1: It's it's great. Did we I'm literally on a text
Speaker 1: change of my X. It's great. It's real trauma bonding.
Speaker 1: Uh guess it's the guy. Everybody break, That's all I
Speaker 1: gotta say. Let's take a quick break and we will
Speaker 1: be back for more cruel intentions. And we're back not
Speaker 1: to keep. I know. The adaptation head in the room
Speaker 1: love talking about adapting source material, but in the original book,
Speaker 1: the way it ends is Sarah Michelle Gellar's character has
Speaker 1: to move to the countryside, and then she contracts smallpox
Speaker 1: and lives, but has scars on her face forever, so
Speaker 1: she looks like sh and her punishment, her beauty is
Speaker 1: taken away from her. And then also Cecil is disgraced
Speaker 1: and can never be married. So you know, Sebastian dies
Speaker 1: and you know, goes down the hero and then all
Speaker 1: the women he affected suffer and are disgraced for life.
Speaker 1: Very cool. I love history, but that is like what
Speaker 1: writers of then and now's idea would be. Oh, how
Speaker 1: do we punish a woman take away her beauty? Because
Speaker 1: women's beauty is all that matter? My guy, Pierre not
Speaker 1: very well, guy, No, do better. Pierre Decay's very h
Speaker 1: Let's talk about how queerness is represented in this film.
Speaker 1: Shall we have to? We have to? So there's a
Speaker 1: subplot where Blaine, which is Joshua Jackson's character. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: Joshua Jackson's in this movie. He's fully bleached, frosty, tippy.
Speaker 1: He's wearing a sweater vest for a large portion of it. Um,
Speaker 1: I mean he's rocking the look. If I'm being on
Speaker 1: I did like the sweater vest he is hooking up
Speaker 1: with this football player dude, Greg Greg. I did I
Speaker 1: stand a Gregster? Okay? And Greg is who Sebastian thinks
Speaker 1: is bad mouthing him to a net because there's someone
Speaker 1: who's like, Sebastian is bad, don't date him in it,
Speaker 1: and Sebastian thinks it's Greg. So Sebastian uses Greg's queerness
Speaker 1: to blackmail him. He basically threatens to out Greg unless
Speaker 1: he admits to bad mouthing him. And we understand at
Speaker 1: this point in the story that Sebastian is still a
Speaker 1: bad guy and we've seen him do a bunch of really,
Speaker 1: you know, morally reprehensible things to people already. But what
Speaker 1: is really troubling to me about this scene is that
Speaker 1: all of this is happening right in front of Blaine,
Speaker 1: who is the other identifiably queer character in the movie,
Speaker 1: and he is completely complicit and everything that Sebastian is doing,
Speaker 1: he was participating in it like he was like, that's
Speaker 1: an awesome idea where it's just like in the same
Speaker 1: way that like Rehese's character is presented to us as
Speaker 1: a smart, capable woman who will go along with whatever
Speaker 1: Joshua Jackson's character is like a smart, funny, cool queer
Speaker 1: man who is down for whatever sinister gay bashing plot.
Speaker 1: Ryan Philippe's noodle Head can come up with. It's horrible. Well,
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I look back on my my
Speaker 1: high school experience and my queer friends, and I think
Speaker 1: they were just trying to get by. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: this was a defense mechanism. It's like, yeah, that's right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: call me a homophobic splore. I'm fine with it. He's
Speaker 1: just trying to get through his damn day. He's just
Speaker 1: waiting to graduate, to get the funk out of there
Speaker 1: so we can find his tribe. But that just doesn't
Speaker 1: come off in the movie at all, Like it just
Speaker 1: comes off as like, oh, yeah, this is fine. And
Speaker 1: I feel for the Gregster. This is to this movie,
Speaker 1: like many of its era, did not acknowledge any gray area.
Speaker 1: It's like you're gay or you're straight, and like that's it. Poor.
Speaker 1: I feel for the Gregster. I really hope the Gregster
Speaker 1: comes into his own later and that his dad accepts
Speaker 1: him and then he goes on behind a powerful queer
Speaker 1: football career. But then, but then poor Greg has to
Speaker 1: do Sebastian's creepy. Errand yeah. And I would say of
Speaker 1: the hundred or more movies we've covered on the podcast
Speaker 1: so far, only a small handful of them, probably like
Speaker 1: five or less even have had an identifiably queer character. Um,
Speaker 1: a lot more have been queer coded, but that is
Speaker 1: not the same. So there's such a lack of queer
Speaker 1: visibility in mainstream Hollywood cinema and it's a huge problem.
Speaker 1: So for one of like the few examples of a
Speaker 1: queer character that we have to choose from to be
Speaker 1: able to see on screen, he's really evil and cruel
Speaker 1: and like willing to sell out his own people for
Speaker 1: reasons that are not really established in the movie. And
Speaker 1: it's so it's like even characters who are not coded queer,
Speaker 1: who are identifiably queer, they're still villainous. Not that this
Speaker 1: movie is was ever going to do any better, but
Speaker 1: that was just like a punch in the mouth as well.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, I mean he was. He was like a
Speaker 1: comic relief for you know, yeah, yeah. And another I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't even know if this trope applies as much
Speaker 1: in this movie, because literally everyone is a horrendous villain.
Speaker 1: But adding another queer villain to the roster certainly is
Speaker 1: not hell not helping, not helpful. Well, and then the
Speaker 1: other queer moment in this movie is between Selma Blair
Speaker 1: and Sarah Michelle Geller, which is I mean, you can
Speaker 1: come with this in a lot of different ways. I'm
Speaker 1: interested in, like what our listeners think of this moment
Speaker 1: because it is so like I feel like this. This
Speaker 1: is used in movies a lot just to like get
Speaker 1: butts and seeds. It's like, these two actresses are having
Speaker 1: a kiss, but it sells the idea that it's like
Speaker 1: it's just an experiment. It's just for fun, it's not serious,
Speaker 1: and that's part of what makes it appealing or what's
Speaker 1: supposed to make it appealing. Um is it's I think
Speaker 1: the most effective kiss of the movie. It was like coonic.
Speaker 1: It was I hadn't seen this movie, but I knew
Speaker 1: that right. It got parody in many of film I think,
Speaker 1: like not another team movie franchise. It one best kiss
Speaker 1: at the MTV Movie Awards that year, which at the
Speaker 1: time was fucking iconic, big and um you know the
Speaker 1: little spit trail that was famous. I did like this,
Speaker 1: I don't know. To me, it was the whole scene
Speaker 1: was you have to learn how to be sexy for men,
Speaker 1: you have to learn how to please your man. And
Speaker 1: it was a very like male gaze moment. And you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I grew up in a completely different place.
Speaker 1: I was in you know, suburbial Texas, not like you know,
Speaker 1: upper New York echelon. But I never made out my
Speaker 1: fucking friends. I don't know, neither did I not until
Speaker 1: college when I was like, oh, let's see what this
Speaker 1: is like. But not and I don't even mean that
Speaker 1: in a way of like you shouldn't experiment sexually with
Speaker 1: your friends. I'm just saying it was. It was such
Speaker 1: a like, well don't you want to be better for
Speaker 1: men to like you? And that made me sad. I
Speaker 1: think it would be really beautiful if they kissed, because
Speaker 1: very experimenting, you know, figuring things out. But it was
Speaker 1: very much like if you want to be sexy to
Speaker 1: other men, if you want to know how to please
Speaker 1: a man, because fuck him pleasing you, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, He's not making out with his friends, so
Speaker 1: he knows how to please you better. So it's our job.
Speaker 1: I mean it with your friends. My neighbor and I
Speaker 1: used to practice kissing in each other to Madonna's two
Speaker 1: thousand album music. There were some good songs on that CD. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we were practice frenching. I think this scene is largely
Speaker 1: there to satisfy a male gaze. I think it could
Speaker 1: you argue that it's positive that it exists in this
Speaker 1: film for you know, young queer girls to be able
Speaker 1: to see themselves and say, oh, this is like yes,
Speaker 1: but I think the movie was thinking about this at all.
Speaker 1: I think the movie was like, wouldn't it be hot
Speaker 1: if we had two hot women kissing each other? And
Speaker 1: it was a very sensual moment. It was, I mean,
Speaker 1: it was like it was well done and it's Yeah.
Speaker 1: The reason I didn't want to come down too harder
Speaker 1: because it's like, because there are so few moments for
Speaker 1: like young queer people to attach themselves too, and so
Speaker 1: I'm sure for many people this is like a scene
Speaker 1: that's like, oh, this is like that was like some
Speaker 1: sort of awakening or something like that and good to see.
Speaker 1: But there's no, there's only cruel intentions behind what cruel intentions?
Speaker 1: Whatever do you mean? But yeah, and then this happens
Speaker 1: in movies all the time. Two examples, right, off the
Speaker 1: top of my head are Jennifer's body at the Apple
Speaker 1: Cody Joint, And there's just very like this didn't need
Speaker 1: to happen, but you added it in because you wanted to,
Speaker 1: because you're a guy, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Another moment
Speaker 1: happens where this is when Sebastian and a net are
Speaker 1: for meeting on screen and Sebastians all like, oh, I
Speaker 1: didn't like your manifesto. It's gross that you want to
Speaker 1: be a virgin, and she's like, she's saying, you know,
Speaker 1: I think that sex should be for people who are
Speaker 1: in love, and that you should the act of love
Speaker 1: shouldn't be done unless you love the person, which is
Speaker 1: feist Trevor, which was Trevor. We don't meet him, but
Speaker 1: her boyfriend respects for damn wishes. They use a homopholbic
Speaker 1: slur him. Yeah, and she's like, I'm actually he's a
Speaker 1: he's a feminist dot com right and and the Greg
Speaker 1: Stir queer icon. Yeah, so and that's all like we like,
Speaker 1: people are age are mature enough to experience those emotions,
Speaker 1: So that's why I'm not having sex yet. And the
Speaker 1: Sebastian immediately asks, are you a lesbian. And this is
Speaker 1: this I think third movie that we've covered recently where
Speaker 1: a woman either doesn't want a boyfriend or doesn't want
Speaker 1: to have sex with a man, or is simply identifies
Speaker 1: as a feminist. And then other aaracters, usually men, assume
Speaker 1: that she's a lesbian because this happens in five days
Speaker 1: of summer. How dare she not be attracted to me
Speaker 1: instantly and want to fuck me? And then and then
Speaker 1: backpad a little bit back to the virginity article, is like,
Speaker 1: this is something that happens in movies all the time too,
Speaker 1: Like implying that someone is like just waiting for a
Speaker 1: manipulative dick to come along to lose a virginity too,
Speaker 1: as opposed to like it's clearly stated in the Weird
Speaker 1: teen magazine she somehow wrote editorial for for no reason
Speaker 1: that this is what this is what she wants and
Speaker 1: this is like and and she explains it clearly, and
Speaker 1: the movie is like, yeah, but she doesn't actually mean
Speaker 1: that she's just into submission. So, and I want to
Speaker 1: talk about that scene where Catherine gives us like sort
Speaker 1: of monologue where she's calling out a double standard that
Speaker 1: we see in so soety where heard of it. She says,
Speaker 1: it's all right for guys like you and Court. She's
Speaker 1: talking to Sebastian, for guys like you in court to
Speaker 1: funk everyone. But when I do it, I get dumped
Speaker 1: for innocent little twits like Cecil. God forbid. I exude
Speaker 1: confidence and enjoy sex. Do you think that I relish
Speaker 1: the fact that I have to act like Mary Sunshine
Speaker 1: seven so I can be considered a lady. So she's
Speaker 1: basically saying, like, it's not fair that men can have
Speaker 1: sex with a bunch of people, you know, their reputation
Speaker 1: remains untarnished. They're cool, they're you know, awesome dudes. And
Speaker 1: then whenever women have sex with more than one person,
Speaker 1: they are labeled a slut. So she's calling this out.
Speaker 1: She makes a good point, but she's also insulting another
Speaker 1: woman while doing it. She's mad at people judging her,
Speaker 1: but she's judging some another woman's sexual choices. Right. This
Speaker 1: rang completely empty to me? Yes, Like I just if
Speaker 1: she would have cut the first sentence, you know, or
Speaker 1: the part the innocent twit like ceceal part, it would
Speaker 1: have been fine. But clear Really she's just dealing through
Speaker 1: her own ship. Yeah, and it's like the the whole
Speaker 1: like Gillian Flynn argument, they're Jillian Flynn, don't know, we
Speaker 1: never know, don't caret tired. But but the whole argument
Speaker 1: there is like that like women should be allowed to
Speaker 1: be villains and isn't that parody? And like I agree
Speaker 1: with that to an extent, but this is this just
Speaker 1: like falls squarely into a thing I fucking hate, which
Speaker 1: is like the adding a few like this is a
Speaker 1: moment for feminists that is totally empty because the character
Speaker 1: is complicit and all these horrible things and they're means
Speaker 1: women themselves, and it's just like it's it's it's empty,
Speaker 1: like girl power, especially because like I think this monologue
Speaker 1: could be way more meaningful and progressive if it was
Speaker 1: coming from a character who wasn't completely evil, like because
Speaker 1: this movie does what a lot of movies do, which
Speaker 1: is to take a woman who is interested in sex
Speaker 1: and who is open with her sexuality, but who's also
Speaker 1: like really mean or has just some other neg of
Speaker 1: characteristic like ascribed to her character, so it's almost villainizing
Speaker 1: her sexuality where it's like, oh, yeah, she wants to
Speaker 1: be open, she wants to be free to have sex,
Speaker 1: with a number of different people. But also she's cruel,
Speaker 1: she has cruel intentions, especially because this isn't the direct
Speaker 1: lead up to her being squarely made the sole villain
Speaker 1: of the movie by the end. Yeah, I just want
Speaker 1: to say also, like, I was prude shamed, and that's
Speaker 1: just a word I made up. It might be a term,
Speaker 1: but that's an I was prude shamed in high school.
Speaker 1: I graduated High School of virgin and uh, and I
Speaker 1: was extremely prude shamed by a guy I was dating,
Speaker 1: by all his friends, by literally everyone, and it's a
Speaker 1: whole other coin. Yeah, And I struggled with a lot
Speaker 1: of that myself because I saw, you know, friends of
Speaker 1: mine having sex and and then I almost shamed them
Speaker 1: out of insecurity and like, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So I hate it, but I think it's important to
Speaker 1: call out again. This is the ship that we were shown,
Speaker 1: and this movie affected me and my sexuality subconsciously, how
Speaker 1: I saw other women. And that's all I gotta say
Speaker 1: about that shot. It's all the pruds, you know. I
Speaker 1: was trying to get through the damn day. I was
Speaker 1: trying to graduate and go to school. Prudes are productive people,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the point it's like, you want and
Speaker 1: how about no women comment on other women's sexual preferences.
Speaker 1: There's say, you know what, if you want to sex,
Speaker 1: that's awesome. If you don't, that's awesome. We can all
Speaker 1: co exist without judging each other, your body, your children
Speaker 1: exactly because and that's another thing that bothers me about
Speaker 1: the Reese character is like at the beginning, it's like
Speaker 1: if I saw this movie when I was teen, prude,
Speaker 1: same same thing, I would have been like, oh, this
Speaker 1: is the character I attached myself too. And then immediately
Speaker 1: it's like no, but she just has to funk Bryan
Speaker 1: Philippie and then her life will be great, and it's like,
Speaker 1: well he manipulated her. I mean, I would like to
Speaker 1: think when she's thirty three, you know, doing a podcast,
Speaker 1: that she would be like, fuck, I should not, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe I do that a little differently
Speaker 1: if I thought about it and a little more, I
Speaker 1: had intentions not so nice where they cruel? Would you say,
Speaker 1: I don't want to like throw anyone under the bus here.
Speaker 1: But also his handwriting is really bad, but I got
Speaker 1: a Jaguar out of it. I don't wish to speak
Speaker 1: ill of the dead, but like perhaps his intentions were cruel. Well,
Speaker 1: let's talk about another scene or series of scenes that
Speaker 1: probably also negatively influenced you as a teen watching this movie,
Speaker 1: which is the rape scene and the after So, so,
Speaker 1: what happens here is that Sebastian invites over Cecil under
Speaker 1: the pretense that he's going to help her with Ronald
Speaker 1: to write, which he has no intention of doing. Actually,
Speaker 1: Then he feeds her an alcoholic drink that she does
Speaker 1: not know contains alcohol. He takes pictures of her without
Speaker 1: her knowledge or permission. Then he negs her and says,
Speaker 1: too bad, you're not sexy. Then he unzips her sweatshirt
Speaker 1: and exposes her bra without her permission. Then he threatens
Speaker 1: to call her mom and blackmails when she wants to leave.
Speaker 1: When she wants to leave, explicitly says I'm uncomfortable. I
Speaker 1: want to leave, and to which he says, you can't leave.
Speaker 1: I will rat you out and ruin your life, so
Speaker 1: he traps her. Then he says, all I want to
Speaker 1: do is give you a kiss, which she the consent.
Speaker 1: Here in this in this isolated moment is still murky
Speaker 1: because she's really only agreeing to it to sort of
Speaker 1: placate him because he's been blackmailing I'll do anything, just
Speaker 1: don't call my mom, right, which is so gross as
Speaker 1: you know, she's a child. And then he's like, well,
Speaker 1: I want to kiss you down there, and then she's like, no,
Speaker 1: I don't want that. And then he's like, what promise
Speaker 1: is a promise? I mean, I can't imagine, like I
Speaker 1: put myself in that situation. And again, when I was
Speaker 1: like a fifteen year old virgin, I mean, that would
Speaker 1: have completely ruined my life. That would have completely changed
Speaker 1: the course of my life, my sexuality, everything. Absolutely, It's
Speaker 1: a very fucked up moment. Yeah. And the aftermath of this,
Speaker 1: so then he takes advantage of her naivete pressures her
Speaker 1: into oral sex, which she does not give consent to.
Speaker 1: He rapes her. So the next day she is visibly traumatized.
Speaker 1: And then I think maybe later that day or the
Speaker 1: next day or something like that, Cecile and Catherine talk
Speaker 1: about it. Cecile says, you know, something awful happened to
Speaker 1: me last night and involves your brother. He took advantage
Speaker 1: of me, and then straight up says, your brother fucking
Speaker 1: rape me. Your brother fucking raped me. And what does
Speaker 1: Catherine says? Well, first she says why didn't you do something, which,
Speaker 1: again is victim horrible this. I literally felt throw up
Speaker 1: rising my throat watching this. It made me so uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: It's just like, gut, I loved it when I asking you, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I thought this was funny. And we're so gas lady insane,
Speaker 1: bad sending the message that like women cannot talk to
Speaker 1: other women about this stuff, and it's just oh, it's
Speaker 1: bad because it confiding in her. Yeah, she was terrified,
Speaker 1: and she's like, oh, he forced in her course on
Speaker 1: you know, oh he made you give him a blow up? No,
Speaker 1: well then what and then she described what happens and
Speaker 1: then she's like, oh, he went down on you, if
Speaker 1: that's what you call it. And then she's asking did
Speaker 1: you like it? No, and she's like no, and she's like, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know. It was weird. And then Catherine's like, oh,
Speaker 1: well you had an orgasm. You're becoming a lady. You
Speaker 1: had your awakening right unless she's like, I'm so proud
Speaker 1: of you. And then Cecile, who again is a victim
Speaker 1: and is experiencing trauma, the movie has her say I am,
Speaker 1: and then she's squealing with delight. She hugs Katherine and
Speaker 1: then Katherine's like, it would be stupid of you to stop.
Speaker 1: You should keep going, have Sebastian teach you all the
Speaker 1: sex stuff, sleep with as many people as possible, and
Speaker 1: she's like, well, wouldn't that make me a slut? And
Speaker 1: Katherine's like, everybody does it, it's just that no one
Speaker 1: talks about it. So, like, God, I hate this so much.
Speaker 1: It's the worst possible way this could have unfolded. Where
Speaker 1: she's a victim of rape, she is confiding in another woman.
Speaker 1: That other woman gaslights her, victim blames her and then says, oh,
Speaker 1: what happened to you wasn't bad. It was actually good
Speaker 1: because you had an orgasm and you should keep doing it.
Speaker 1: And then the scene after that is Cetile back at
Speaker 1: Sebastian's place. She has now had sex with him, she
Speaker 1: wants to keep having She's she's verywhere he throws her
Speaker 1: off the bed because she's talking. I mean, he's really
Speaker 1: setting her up for a healthy sexual identity, and you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like, it's just my heart broke
Speaker 1: in this scene, just imagining her again growing up in
Speaker 1: her twenties. This is setting her up for just really
Speaker 1: shitty emotions involving her sexuality. It bummed me out so hard.
Speaker 1: I guess I'm like too old to enjoy movies anymore
Speaker 1: because all I see are the sad things. I'm so
Speaker 1: glad I didn't see this movie as a teenager, because
Speaker 1: I really think I would have been so full of
Speaker 1: this over all of this, and that says a lot
Speaker 1: again about you know, my environment, the media I was consuming,
Speaker 1: the lack of positive, helpful conversations. I was big given
Speaker 1: So again, it's a miracle. And who I am today
Speaker 1: and it's all I gotta say. Well, we've had to
Speaker 1: reach we've all had to retrain our and it comes
Speaker 1: with age. That's one, you know. I'll take that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I'm happy with who I am today. And fortunately
Speaker 1: this is not the sort of movie. It would be
Speaker 1: very hard to make this movie in the same way
Speaker 1: today because society, because we have a vault, we have
Speaker 1: ad enough. Certainly not, that's why we do this. Every
Speaker 1: movie from like, have you to talk about the wedding singer? No,
Speaker 1: not yet, I'll leave it for that. It used to
Speaker 1: be on favorite movie and I watched it and I
Speaker 1: was just like, damn, there's so many things in this
Speaker 1: movie that really are not okay anymore. I had to
Speaker 1: give my favorite movie Back to the Future. On a
Speaker 1: bonus episode. We did Zero Nipples because everything about it
Speaker 1: is horribly problematic. There's some assault in that movie too
Speaker 1: that everyone just hurt her. That was funny. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: movie is horrible, but great soundtrack. Also, I love the
Speaker 1: frost the tips. They're frosty and I'm here for him.
Speaker 1: But like everything else is horrible. Ryan Phillippi says emails
Speaker 1: for geeks and pedophiles, which is so great. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's like, which you know, relatable. They didn't get everything wrong.
Speaker 1: That's a l O L line. It is still email
Speaker 1: is still chaotic, evil, and god. An email causes me
Speaker 1: so much anxiety. It's not like a phone call where
Speaker 1: you can talk to somebody and then it goes away
Speaker 1: and you'll never really remember exactly what somebody says. It's
Speaker 1: literally like, I remember, I broke up with this guy
Speaker 1: and I sent him the worst, like embarrassing overshare email,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'm married now he's married. Now that
Speaker 1: email exists, It's like this, some day he could fucking
Speaker 1: there's a paper trail, and I hate that makes me
Speaker 1: so upset that that exists. Man, Sometimes when I'm feeling
Speaker 1: like emotionally cutting, I'm like, let me just see see
Speaker 1: an email. Is isn't at any point terrific psycho. Does
Speaker 1: anyone have any other thoughts about cruel intentions? It's just
Speaker 1: like if if you want, if you are an evolved
Speaker 1: person who wants to get drunk with their friends and
Speaker 1: really ugle a horrifying piece of media, this was a
Speaker 1: fun party watch. Other than that, I mean, if you
Speaker 1: haven't seen this movie and expect to get anything out
Speaker 1: of it in terms of your life, you won't write
Speaker 1: it's it's it's really a cursed piece of media. It's sure,
Speaker 1: it's a little over an hour and a half long,
Speaker 1: but it took me, I would say, four hours to
Speaker 1: watch because I kept either having deposit to take a
Speaker 1: string of notes, or I was just so emotionally exhausted
Speaker 1: watching it that I just had to keep taking breaks.
Speaker 1: I mean, one point we didn't even touch upon is
Speaker 1: Catherine's wardrobe, which is literally like Grandmama. It was like,
Speaker 1: so as they say on Project going Away, matronly, she
Speaker 1: dressed like a you know, sixty seven year old like
Speaker 1: rich lady in the clothing is crazy. And then a
Speaker 1: Nette is dressed in like white, sells the whole movie
Speaker 1: because she's like the virginal, she's paste. And then she
Speaker 1: dres just pretty like that's what a mid two thousands
Speaker 1: or late nineties, you know teen girl would wear. Sure,
Speaker 1: but I think the color palette was very intention it was.
Speaker 1: And then the and then Cecile is dressing in like cartoonish.
Speaker 1: She's wearing a bit. Why didn't see the diaper the
Speaker 1: fucking eyes saw dress. It's cost dot diaper with her
Speaker 1: fucking barette. You know. She look Well, that's why I
Speaker 1: carry backpack. I always say we're a backpack. It takes
Speaker 1: ten years off of you instantly. Oh I'm late for
Speaker 1: sucking stunny hallo. Tip for all the people out there,
Speaker 1: that's actually a great tip. Thank you adition. They're gonna go, wow,
Speaker 1: look at that ten best boss. Oh well, shall we
Speaker 1: determine whether or not the movie passes the back to tests?
Speaker 1: Somehow it does. There are quite a few scenes where
Speaker 1: women interact in the movie. This passes it. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: a bunch of times. Unfortunately, like oh my god, by
Speaker 1: our standard it only has to be a two line
Speaker 1: exchange that passes. So there are quite a few conversations
Speaker 1: that women will be talking. They will start off the
Speaker 1: conversation about not men, and then they will start to
Speaker 1: talk about men, but the first few lines of those
Speaker 1: conversations will pass. For example, like even in the very
Speaker 1: beginning with the therapist whose name we learn based on
Speaker 1: the book Covers, Dr Regina Greenbaum, she's on the phone
Speaker 1: with terror read. She's like, hi, honey, and then Marcy's like,
Speaker 1: you kept me on hold, and the doctor is like,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, it's something wrong, and then they start talking
Speaker 1: about that. But that count, I mean to us, which
Speaker 1: the bar is so low. We talked about that all
Speaker 1: the time. We talk about the fact that this test
Speaker 1: is flawed. That is what we named the show, so
Speaker 1: we have to I mean, I only found one conversation
Speaker 1: where they didn't talk about men, and that was when
Speaker 1: Aunt Helen and net are discussing her house while they're
Speaker 1: riding the horses. It's like, oh, what a beautiful home.
Speaker 1: Oh it's been my family for generations. Oh thank you
Speaker 1: for letting me stay here. The only conversation between not
Speaker 1: pass the back to time. But then Annette says, oh,
Speaker 1: my grandpa used to read horses, so then she mentions
Speaker 1: a man. There's a scene towards the beginning where Katherine,
Speaker 1: Cecile and Bunny called well Christine brains scar. They're talking
Speaker 1: about how Cecile is going to start school, and there's
Speaker 1: there's quite a few lines that do pass. But then
Speaker 1: but then Cecile says, what are the boys like? So
Speaker 1: then that stopped. Soasian sexually harasses her and that looks
Speaker 1: up her skirt, yeah, and nobody says anything, and then
Speaker 1: mother shames her. Yeah, She's like, together, close your legs.
Speaker 1: This isn't Jamaica. What the does that mean? First of all,
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I don't like it. Whatever that
Speaker 1: implication is. I hate it sound they're not saying, how
Speaker 1: fucking dare you my fifteen year old daughter? You're disgusting.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you. It's so much victim blaming and victim shaming.
Speaker 1: So enraged. How dare they do this to Christine? Honestly,
Speaker 1: Christine didn't God? Okay. So there's a few other scenes that,
Speaker 1: like towards the end, whenever Katherine and a Nette are
Speaker 1: in the bathroom, as Katherine snorting cocaine out of her
Speaker 1: uh necklace and that comes out of the stall. Katherine's like,
Speaker 1: I didn't know anyone else is in here. And then
Speaker 1: it's like, I'm sorry, I'm Anette heargrove, and she's like,
Speaker 1: I'm Katherine. Have we met? I don't think so. And
Speaker 1: then they talk about they both act like they don't
Speaker 1: know who each other is. Right, We're right they talk
Speaker 1: about Sebastian. But yeah, those few first lines passed the test.
Speaker 1: So this movie unfortunately does pass, even though most conversations
Speaker 1: between women end up being about men. So yes, so
Speaker 1: good job movie. Shall we rate the film on our
Speaker 1: nipple scale? Can can do it? All? Right? Zero to
Speaker 1: five nipples? Based on its portrayal and representation of women,
Speaker 1: It's zero. I'm getting this is getting zero nipples. Every
Speaker 1: Thing between the victim blaming, the assault that is not
Speaker 1: considered assault by most of the characters in the movie
Speaker 1: and the movie itself, the homophobia, the slurs that get
Speaker 1: thrown around very freely, the fact that women hate each other.
Speaker 1: There there isn't a woman that gets along with another
Speaker 1: woman in the whole movie. Yeah, the fact that Catherine
Speaker 1: is villainized at the very end, and she's the one
Speaker 1: who gets her come up, and even though Sebastian is
Speaker 1: the way more active villain and does way more horrible
Speaker 1: things throughout the film, including assault, It's just I feel
Speaker 1: really sorry for anyone who watched this as a young
Speaker 1: and impressional person, because this movie almost certainly screwed you
Speaker 1: up to some degree, and it's horrible that this movie
Speaker 1: exists in the world. Soundtrack though there so yeah, zero nipples,
Speaker 1: so I have no nipples to give to anybody. I'm
Speaker 1: also going to give it zero nipples. I want to
Speaker 1: give it negative nipples because this is a successful movie
Speaker 1: to add a net negative impact on the culture. It
Speaker 1: did harm to people. I'm giving it negative one nipples.
Speaker 1: I'm giving in an inverted, cursed nipple because it did.
Speaker 1: I mean, movies like this are so frustrating because there
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a special case, because there's truly
Speaker 1: nothing good to be taken away from it. Yeah, you're
Speaker 1: totally right. There's not one positive not loaded with like malice.
Speaker 1: Female interaction where at least there are male male relationships
Speaker 1: in this movie that are friendships, but of course it's
Speaker 1: because they do evil shipped together. They rape in packs.
Speaker 1: But like no woman talking to another woman in this
Speaker 1: movie is done without them lie to each other, manipulating.
Speaker 1: It's just women and women when you say their intentions
Speaker 1: are perhaps okay as they mean yeah, as they mean intentions, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm it gets an inverted nipple for violence against Christine Baranski.
Speaker 1: It it just I don't like when my galasm is
Speaker 1: saying things about Jamaica that make no sense. This movie
Speaker 1: is like, sucks so hard that it is watching a
Speaker 1: slow taxi crash that makes no sense. Yeah, it's bad,
Speaker 1: it's bad. I don't I can't think of something I
Speaker 1: could have done to make it worse. Right, they made
Speaker 1: every bad choice, and that is an accomplishment in itself.
Speaker 1: They made every single bad choice. They didn't let Sebashian
Speaker 1: have one. I mean he even verbally assaults the old
Speaker 1: woman in the retirement home. Yeah, he fucking verbally assaulted
Speaker 1: the old lady in the retirement home. Character gets past him,
Speaker 1: he gaslights hers like yeah we played backgammon, don fuck
Speaker 1: your daughter? Like, who the fuck? But sick fuck I
Speaker 1: also the fun runner of every time Sebastian walks into
Speaker 1: a building, he abuses the working class doorman, class shaming people.
Speaker 1: Oh he's just a night but he's the guy that
Speaker 1: we're supposed to root for at the end because he
Speaker 1: gets because not even any less evil because of this.
Speaker 1: He does nothing because he had a sinister scrap book
Speaker 1: that was published. Yeah, he went into a lot like
Speaker 1: he like cut things out, amazing deca, getting crafty. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know whatever, fuck it negative one nipple, Yeah,
Speaker 1: well what would you give it? I would give the
Speaker 1: soundtrack five nipples with the movie zero. Yes, fuck this movie. Honestly,
Speaker 1: shame on all these actors too, But again at the time,
Speaker 1: we didn't know any it was. That's really depressing. But
Speaker 1: that's true. And I to pull the ignorance card, but honestly,
Speaker 1: but it's true. It is. It just makes me. I
Speaker 1: wonder what they think now, you know, like Molly Ringwalld
Speaker 1: talked about The Breakfast Club and like, looking back on it,
Speaker 1: I would love to hear what SAA Michelle Gellar thinks
Speaker 1: of this movie now. And Ryan Philippi. This movie almost
Speaker 1: became a TV show two years ago and then it
Speaker 1: was mindfully canceled. Um, I don't know, has like done
Speaker 1: a lot of good things, it seems since she you know,
Speaker 1: she has a production company where she's championing female led projects,
Speaker 1: championing women of color, its rules, no doubt about it.
Speaker 1: So at least she was funked up with that cop
Speaker 1: at one time. But we all pretended, oh wait, what happened?
Speaker 1: What she was driving drunk, got pulled over? It was like,
Speaker 1: don't you know who I am? I mean the the
Speaker 1: PR team skirted pass out. Everybody gets one shitty pass
Speaker 1: you learn from it, you know, Okay, Hollywood forgives. I
Speaker 1: think we all know that by now. Okay, unless you're
Speaker 1: a woman older than four. But racist America's sweetheart. When
Speaker 1: she won her oscar, I sobbed, I wept with joy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so call me Reest, love you and and l Woods.
Speaker 1: I will defend her till my night. Yeah, like Reese
Speaker 1: Weatherspoon is like white feminism, the person the better for works. Sure. Yeah, well, Jackie,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on the podcast and
Speaker 1: discussing this life with us. Where can people find you online?
Speaker 1: Do you have anything you'd like to plug? Well? I
Speaker 1: host a show called Natch Beaute. It's a beauty show.
Speaker 1: But what does beauty mean to you? You know, that's
Speaker 1: really what we talk about. We we really love cruelty
Speaker 1: free products, so we get into the kind of the
Speaker 1: stuff nobody tells you about the beauty industry, makeup and skincare,
Speaker 1: and we have fun on there. So maybe you two
Speaker 1: can come on and we can talk about stuff like that.
Speaker 1: It would be fun. I like cruelty free intentions wait
Speaker 1: and direct DVD sequel, So yeah, check out natural You
Speaker 1: and you can follow me on Instagram at an attribute
Speaker 1: and then my I always plug my dog's account hello,
Speaker 1: because my dog is the biggest star in my house.
Speaker 1: So you like dog accounts? Follow Chucci love it Yeah awesome.
Speaker 1: You can find us in all the usual places. We
Speaker 1: are on Twitter and Facebook at battle cast. Please like,
Speaker 1: please subscribe, please leave us some stars on iTunes is
Speaker 1: a friendly review. You can buy our merch on Tea public.
Speaker 1: You can oh sign up for our patreon ak Matreon
Speaker 1: at patreon dot com. Slash the backtel cost five dollars
Speaker 1: a month gets you to bonus episodes. Wow, and you know,
Speaker 1: moving forward in your day, try to keep your intentions good.
Speaker 1: Nice SI sign up by