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Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tex Stuff. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio

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Speaker 1: and how the tech are you today? I'm introducing a

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Speaker 1: new kind of tech stuff episode. Now. Listeners who have

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Speaker 1: been with me for a long long time might remember

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Speaker 1: the old uh listener mail episodes where I would say

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Speaker 1: listener mail in an extremely obnoxious way and we would

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Speaker 1: have a terrible sound effect play afterward, and we had

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Speaker 1: equal amounts of mail about listener mail, with about half

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Speaker 1: saying I hate it, I hate how you do it.

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Speaker 1: Stop doing it. I still want the listener mail episodes,

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Speaker 1: but stop introducing it the way you introduce it, and

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Speaker 1: the other half said, I think it's hilarious. Keep doing it.

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Speaker 1: And eventually I just stopped because you know, I was

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Speaker 1: alienating like half the audience. But now we have a

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Speaker 1: new type of tech stuff episode, which means we have

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Speaker 1: a new opportunity to have a way to introduce these

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Speaker 1: types of episodes, and I'm calling this type of episode

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Speaker 1: a tech Stuff talk back. Now, for those of you

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Speaker 1: who have not heard, if you use the I Heart

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Speaker 1: Radio app, which is a free app. You can download

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Speaker 1: tier Phone and use that to access the tech Stuff podcast.

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Speaker 1: You'll see there's a little microphone icon. It's both on

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Speaker 1: the main tex Stuff page and it's also on every

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Speaker 1: single episode that's in the app. If you click on

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Speaker 1: that icon, then you can leave a thirty second voice

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Speaker 1: message to us, and Tori and I are the only

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Speaker 1: two people who can listen to those messages. So you

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Speaker 1: can leave a message to the show in general, or

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Speaker 1: you can go into a specific episode and leave an

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Speaker 1: episode specific message. On the back end, we can see

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Speaker 1: what episode you you clicked on and all that, so

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Speaker 1: it makes it really easy to figure out who is

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Speaker 1: talking about what. So listener Greg sent me a couple

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Speaker 1: of messages, including one that was just really friendly saying

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Speaker 1: thank you for the show. Thank you, Greg, that was

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Speaker 1: really thoughtful of you. And he used the talk back

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Speaker 1: feature on the I Heart Radio app. So first off,

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Speaker 1: shout out to you Greg for being the first person

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Speaker 1: to use that feature to contact me. I am not

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Speaker 1: counting the test message I sent to myself. Also, while

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Speaker 1: technically using talk back gives me the right to use

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Speaker 1: the audio that is recorded, So, in other words, if

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Speaker 1: you leave a message technically because of the agreements, the

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Speaker 1: user agreements. I can use that audio, However, uh, that's

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Speaker 1: not my style. I am not sure if Greg is

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Speaker 1: cool would be using his audio. So I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: summarize what he asked. And now, if folks in the

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Speaker 1: future use the talkback feature and you want me to

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Speaker 1: include that audio in an episode like you would like

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Speaker 1: it if I had that play and then answer your question,

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Speaker 1: just let me know and you can say it's cool

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Speaker 1: to use this in your episode or something along those lines. Now,

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Speaker 1: Greg's talk back came in before I set those expectations,

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Speaker 1: so I'm just going to assume by default he would

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Speaker 1: prefer I not include it. And that is because I

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Speaker 1: much prefer opt in systems where you choose to be

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Speaker 1: part of it, rather than opt out systems where you

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Speaker 1: expressly have to say, hey, don't use this um So

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Speaker 1: I would rather err on the side of opting in. Anyway.

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Speaker 1: Greg has been listening to tech stuff since twenty six

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Speaker 1: and he had a couple of requests. For one, he

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Speaker 1: wanted to know if I had any direct personal experience

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Speaker 1: with writing around in Tesla vehicles, particularly with the full

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Speaker 1: self driving system turned on. And I can answer that

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Speaker 1: one right away. I do not have that experience. I

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Speaker 1: have a neighbor, my next door neighbor, who has a Tesla.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he lives literally right next to me. But

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Speaker 1: we are not in the hey can I hop in

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Speaker 1: your car phase of our relationship. We're more in the hey,

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Speaker 1: I accidentally got your mail again phase in our relationship.

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Speaker 1: So I have not asked him to give me a

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Speaker 1: ride in his Tesla. I think that that would probably

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Speaker 1: come across as very odd to him. But Greg also

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Speaker 1: wanted to know if full self driving is what Tesla

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Speaker 1: says it is. Now that question is actually more complicated

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Speaker 1: than what it seems on the surface. So on the

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Speaker 1: face of it, you've got the term full self driving. Now,

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Speaker 1: to me, that implies that the vehicle does all of

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Speaker 1: the driving by itself. That's to me what full self

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Speaker 1: driving seems to imply. So if you told me that

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Speaker 1: this is a full self driving car, I would assume

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Speaker 1: that you were talking about at least a level three

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Speaker 1: autonomous vehicle. Now, as a reminder, there are six levels

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Speaker 1: to autonomous driving, as agreed upon by the Society of

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Speaker 1: Automotive Engineers, Levels zero through to cover driver assist features,

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Speaker 1: and they all require that a human behind the wheel

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Speaker 1: continues to monitor the driving environment at all times. That

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Speaker 1: is where Tesla's full self driving mode actually falls. It

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Speaker 1: falls in level two under some situations and level one

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Speaker 1: under other situations. A level three autonomous vehicle would do

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Speaker 1: all the monitoring of its environment by itself. Human override

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Speaker 1: would still be possible in a level three autonomous vehicle,

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Speaker 1: and in fact it might be required for edge cases

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Speaker 1: that pop up during driving or certain conditions. So this

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Speaker 1: means that a level three at ponomous vehicle would still

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Speaker 1: need controls like you would still need to have a

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Speaker 1: steering wheel and an accelerator and a break that a

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Speaker 1: human could operate. If you did not have those controls,

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Speaker 1: that car would need to be level four or higher

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Speaker 1: like level four level five autonomous. So in addition, a

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Speaker 1: level three autonomous vehicle would have conditional autonomy, so that

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Speaker 1: means it only operates an autonomous mode if all those

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Speaker 1: conditions are met. So that might include things like weather conditions.

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Speaker 1: If whether it is particularly nasty like storming or something

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Speaker 1: where you have heavy heavy rains, or maybe a very

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Speaker 1: dense fog, that might be a condition where the car

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Speaker 1: will not operate an autonomous mode. Uh that might also

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Speaker 1: have a geo fencing feature, meaning that you have to

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Speaker 1: operate within a certain radius, and if you get outside

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Speaker 1: of that radius of operation, the car will not work

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Speaker 1: in autonomous mode and you have to drive it manually.

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Speaker 1: So level three autonomy is conditional autonomy. Tesla full self

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Speaker 1: driving mode does not get to level three yet. I

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Speaker 1: think Tesla refers to its mode as full self driving

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Speaker 1: because it handles two separate driving functions at the same

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Speaker 1: time under certain conditions. That is, it handles both the

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Speaker 1: acceleration and breaking of the vehicle, as well as the

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Speaker 1: steering of the vehicle. A level one autonomous vehicle only

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Speaker 1: handles one driving operation at a time. It can handle acceleration,

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Speaker 1: slash breaking or steering, but not both. So a car

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Speaker 1: that has lane correction, for example, will guide a vehicle

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Speaker 1: that's drifting out of a lane of traffic to go

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Speaker 1: back into the lane of traffic. That's one job it's steering.

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Speaker 1: Or a car that has adaptive cruise control will change

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Speaker 1: the speed of the vehicle's travel based upon the speed

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Speaker 1: of traffic around it. So if the car in front

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Speaker 1: of you slows down, your car's adaptive cruise control will

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Speaker 1: slow your car down to automatically. Full self driving takes

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Speaker 1: on both of those functions, at least in highway operation,

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Speaker 1: and I'm guessing that's why Tesla called it full self driving,

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Speaker 1: because it controls both the acceleration and deceleration as well

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Speaker 1: as the steering. You as a driver don't have to

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Speaker 1: do anything when in full self driving mode other than

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Speaker 1: maintain supervision of the vehicle and be ready to intervene

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Speaker 1: at any given moment, so this is still a very

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Speaker 1: highly conditional mode. Full self driving mode is meant for

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Speaker 1: highway use. You can activate it when you're taking an

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Speaker 1: on ramp to a highway and the full self driving

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Speaker 1: system uh this this part of full self drivings in

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Speaker 1: beta testing, by the way, But the full self driving

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Speaker 1: system can then navigate your car through highway traffic, including

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Speaker 1: lane changes to go to the appropriate exit, and it

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Speaker 1: can even navigate through interchanges, so you can go from

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Speaker 1: one highway to a different highway and continue on to

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Speaker 1: your you know, exit, the the appropriate exit for wherever

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Speaker 1: you're going. At that point. You would then resume manual

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Speaker 1: steering of the vehicle. There are also some non highway

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Speaker 1: modes that you can use in full self driving there's

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Speaker 1: an auto park feature, which means you can, you know,

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Speaker 1: have your car park itself. It will guide the Tesla

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Speaker 1: to parallel park itself or to park in a perpendicular

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Speaker 1: space automatically. And there's kind of the reverse of that.

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Speaker 1: There's the Summon feature, which, as you might imagine, summons

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Speaker 1: your Tesla so that your car moves to where you are,

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Speaker 1: kind of like an automated valet. And there's a mode

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Speaker 1: that will automatically identify traffic lights and stop signs, which

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Speaker 1: will guide your car to stop appropriately on city streets.

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Speaker 1: So that would allow for acceleration deceleration on city streets,

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Speaker 1: but not steering. So as of right now, auto steer

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Speaker 1: on city streets is not an option. It is listed

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Speaker 1: as coming up like an up humming option, but it's

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Speaker 1: not there yet. So on city streets, full self driving

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Speaker 1: really reverts down to a level one autonomous mode of

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Speaker 1: operation because it handles acceleration and deceleration but not the steering,

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Speaker 1: and in all modes, Tesla drivers are expected to supervise

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Speaker 1: the operation of the vehicle at all times. All right,

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Speaker 1: when we come back after this quick break, I'll wrap

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Speaker 1: up with Greg's question here. So before the break, we

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Speaker 1: were talking about how Tesla drivers have to maintain supervision

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Speaker 1: of their vehicle even in full self driving mode, which

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Speaker 1: keeps full self driving at level to autonomous operation at

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Speaker 1: least in highway mode. On city street mode, you're still

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Speaker 1: at level one, and Tesla for it, for the record,

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Speaker 1: they are up from about this. So my beef with

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Speaker 1: Tesla is that the names that it gives of these features,

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Speaker 1: like autopilot, which is the more basic set of driver

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Speaker 1: assist features, and full self driving, those names, at least

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Speaker 1: to me on the surface, create a bit of misdirection. Uh,

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Speaker 1: if you read up on it, If you actually go

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Speaker 1: to Tesla site and you read up on autopilot and

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Speaker 1: full self driving, you would quickly understand the limitations of

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Speaker 1: those systems and the expectations Tesla has for its drivers,

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Speaker 1: and you can probably suss out why Tesla chose those

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Speaker 1: names in the first place. But I say, on the

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Speaker 1: surface level, those terms are misleading at best. I think

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Speaker 1: they said particular expectations that aren't realistic, and I think

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Speaker 1: those unrealistic expectations have factored into some truly tragic accidents.

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Speaker 1: So is Tesla responsible for those high profile accidents that

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Speaker 1: we have seen, some of which lead to fatalities. That

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Speaker 1: to me is a very difficult question to answer. So,

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Speaker 1: on the one hand, the company communicates to drivers the

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Speaker 1: requirement of actively supervising the vehicle, not relying on it

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Speaker 1: as a self driving solution. They even go so far

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Speaker 1: as to outright say it is not an autonomous vehicle.

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, the marketing of these features to me,

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Speaker 1: suggests that the vehicle is capable of handling everything by itself.

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Speaker 1: Full self driving seems to indicate that the car will

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Speaker 1: do everything for you. I don't think that Tesla should

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Speaker 1: be totally off the hook here. I do think that

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Speaker 1: Tesla drivers bear most of the responsibility for accidents. I

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Speaker 1: do not want to give the implication that I think

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Speaker 1: Tesla is fully responsible for any accident of a Tesla

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Speaker 1: vehicle that was operating in full self driving mode. I

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Speaker 1: don't think that's true. I think that the drivers bear

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Speaker 1: most of that responsibility, largely because Tesla does communicate what

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Speaker 1: the limitations of those modes are two drivers before they

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Speaker 1: can activate them. Whether of the drivers read it or

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Speaker 1: not is another question. It can be like one of

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Speaker 1: those end user license agreements that everybody with a few

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Speaker 1: exceptions just skips over so that they can click the

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Speaker 1: eye accept at the end of it and move on

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Speaker 1: with their lives. Um only a few people ever bother

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Speaker 1: reading those and I worry that Tesla drivers can sometimes

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Speaker 1: be the same way with the warnings and limitations of

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Speaker 1: things like autopilot and full self driving. So it's hard

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Speaker 1: for me to remove all accountability from the company itself.

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Speaker 1: I do think Tesla bears at least some responsibility, perhaps

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Speaker 1: for poor communication of what these these modes do, simply

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Speaker 1: because the names are so evocative of things that that

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Speaker 1: the modes just can't can't do. Anyway, as to whether

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Speaker 1: full self driving does what Tesla says it can do,

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Speaker 1: I think yeah it does. If you actually read what

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Speaker 1: Tesla says the mode does. Uh, you have to take

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Speaker 1: that time to do it. And if you don't do

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Speaker 1: it and you just rely on the feeling you get

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Speaker 1: from the name itself, you are going to walk away

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Speaker 1: with the wrong impression. But at the heart of the matter,

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Speaker 1: Tesla does pretty much. You know, let's spell out what

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Speaker 1: the mode can and cannot do. So would I be

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Speaker 1: comfortable writing with someone who activated Tesla's full self driving mode.

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Speaker 1: Let's say I get in my next door neighbors Tesla.

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Speaker 1: He takes me out on the highway and turns on

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Speaker 1: full self driving. Well, if I had previously ridden with

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Speaker 1: the guy and I knew that he was a really

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Speaker 1: good driver, and that he was paying attention and that

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Speaker 1: he's a responsible driver, then I probably feel comfortable because

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Speaker 1: I know that he would be continuously monitoring the situation

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Speaker 1: and ready to step in should anything unexpected happen. However,

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Speaker 1: if the driver was someone that I felt was, you know,

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Speaker 1: vaguely irresponsible and was clearly leaving everything up to the

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Speaker 1: ca are, I absolutely would not feel comfortable at all,

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Speaker 1: and I would be questioning every decision I had made

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Speaker 1: in my life that led me to sit in that vehicle.

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Speaker 1: I would be terrified. So I think the last several

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Speaker 1: years have shown us that Tesla's particular approach to self

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Speaker 1: driving technology has a really long way to go. It

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Speaker 1: is tragic that in the process of learning about those

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Speaker 1: gaps and capability, people have lost their lives and accidents.

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Speaker 1: That is truly terrible. Obviously, it would be a lot

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Speaker 1: better if any company would discover limitations like that through

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Speaker 1: controlled tests that didn't endanger human lives or the lives

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Speaker 1: of you know, other people who are on the road

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Speaker 1: and aren't even involved in the vehicle itself. You could

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Speaker 1: make the argument that the way Tesla has rolled out

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Speaker 1: the features has inspired unrealistic expectations and has created situations

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Speaker 1: where people have uh abused the technology. Now that's how

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Speaker 1: I feel, but I also acknowledge that other folks might

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Speaker 1: strongly disagree with me and say that the drivers should

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Speaker 1: shoulder full responsibility for their actions. I don't quite feel

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Speaker 1: that way, because I feel like if someone is selling

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Speaker 1: you something and they call it one thing, and it's

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Speaker 1: only by reading the fine print that you realize it's

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Speaker 1: not it's not exactly what they're calling it, some of

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Speaker 1: that responsibility has to follow fall on the vendor for

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Speaker 1: a kind of misrepresenting the product. That's just how I

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Speaker 1: feel though. That's my own opinion. But thanks to Greg

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Speaker 1: again for his request. He also sent a follow up

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Speaker 1: request asking me to do a full episode treatment for

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Speaker 1: on Kio. I talked about how the company that created

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Speaker 1: the on Chio brand has gone out of business. The

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Speaker 1: brand itself lives on so A few people on Twitter

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Speaker 1: have similarly asked me to do a full episode on Kio.

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Speaker 1: So I'm going to be tackling that very soon. Keep

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Speaker 1: an ear out for it, and if you would like

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Speaker 1: to leave me a message, that would become a future

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Speaker 1: tech Stuff talk back episode. Like I said, just go

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Speaker 1: download the I Heart Radio app on your smartphone, navigate

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Speaker 1: to tech Stuff. You'll see that there's that little microphone

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Speaker 1: icon both on the main page and within each episode.

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Speaker 1: You click on that, you record your thirty second message. Remember,

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Speaker 1: let me know if you want that to audio to

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Speaker 1: actually play within an episode, and then I will take

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Speaker 1: care of it from there. It's a great little feature

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Speaker 1: and I'm really enjoying how it's working out so far,

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Speaker 1: and I'm looking forward to hearing from more of you

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Speaker 1: in the future. And otherwise, if you just want to

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Speaker 1: get in touch with me on Twitter, you can still

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Speaker 1: totally do that to The handle for the show is

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Speaker 1: tech Stuff H. S W and I'll talk to you

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Speaker 1: again really soon. Tex Stuff is an I Heart Radio production.

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