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Speaker 1: Amy Chan is the founder of renewed Breakup boot Camp,

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Speaker 1: a retreat that takes a scientific and spiritual approach to

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Speaker 1: the healing heart. She is also the editor in chief

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Speaker 1: of hart Hackers Club. Amy has also been referred to

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Speaker 1: you know, I love this one as a relationship expert

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Speaker 1: whose work is like that of a scientific Carrie Bradshaw.

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Speaker 1: She's been featured on Good Morning America, Vogue, Glamour Nightline,

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Speaker 1: in the front page of The New York Times. Her book,

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Speaker 1: Breakup boot Camp, The Science of Rewiring Your Heart was

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Speaker 1: published by HarperCollins and an instant Amazon bestseller. She's also

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Speaker 1: just one of my favorite people and has joined us

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Speaker 1: on the podcast many times before. Amy, Hi, thank you

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Speaker 1: for being here.

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Speaker 2: Ry, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Welcome our topic this month that told you was shedding,

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Speaker 1: and so we got a listener email that I thought, huh,

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Speaker 1: is this an interesting question to ask a relationship expert

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Speaker 1: about platonic male female relationships once you get involved into

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Speaker 1: a romantic relationship, Like, is that something that we should

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Speaker 1: be shedding? Chip? Do you want to go ahead and

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Speaker 1: read the email for us?

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Speaker 3: Sure? It reads I dated a man for a while

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Speaker 3: and he continually mentioned his female best friend straight out

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Speaker 3: of the gate. He said that that they took a

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Speaker 3: trip together for his thirtieth birthday years back. Obviously a

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Speaker 3: very long time female friend. The top line issue he

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Speaker 3: never introduced us. There were three instances where he chose

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Speaker 3: her over me and quote unquote forgot about me. In

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Speaker 3: one of the situations, someone even assumed she was his girlfriend,

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Speaker 3: which made me wonder. Early on in our relationship, he

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Speaker 3: spent the night at her house when she was wait

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Speaker 3: He spent the night at her house when she was

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Speaker 3: not there because he rents his house as an airbnb

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Speaker 3: and it overlapped. I was not ready for him to

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Speaker 3: stay with me overnight. He reassured me that she wasn't

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Speaker 3: there when he spent the night. He told me that

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Speaker 3: part of the reason he moved to Nashville was because

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Speaker 3: of her. They were the same age, she is highly successful.

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Speaker 3: At one point, I kind of felt like we could

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Speaker 3: be friends and get along as we seemed interested in

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Speaker 3: similar things. Did she even know he was dating someone

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Speaker 3: while she was hanging out with him. That's hard for

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Speaker 3: me to comprehend because if she did, I personally wouldn't

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Speaker 3: be spending that kind of time with someone out of

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Speaker 3: pure respect. I have also never been a jealous person

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Speaker 3: and took the upside of things, but this one has

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Speaker 3: me a bit rocked. A month after we stopped talking,

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Speaker 3: I found out he took her along on one of

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Speaker 3: his work trips, took excursions with her in advance, basically

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Speaker 3: doing things with her that I wanted to do, things

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Speaker 3: I suggested that we do. He did this with a friend.

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Speaker 3: My question is, do you think it's appropriate to heavily

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Speaker 3: maintain slash spend time with male slash female friends or

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Speaker 3: friends of the opposite sex when you're dating dating to

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Speaker 3: build a relationship.

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Speaker 1: Well, Amy, I will just go ahead and defer write

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Speaker 1: to you.

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Speaker 3: Okay, it's a sticky one.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So I'm going to start with a general response

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Speaker 4: and then I'm going to zoom into her specific situation.

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Speaker 4: Generally speaking, it is totally okay to have friends of

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Speaker 4: the opposite sex, and in fact, it is healthy. Having

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Speaker 4: friends of the opposite sex can give you perspective, and

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Speaker 4: it's not like, ooh, you know, once you pass your teens,

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Speaker 4: if you're like friends with someone in the opposite sex

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Speaker 4: and it has to be sexual, it's not. And I'll

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Speaker 4: go back into the zoomed out version after I talked

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Speaker 4: about the situation. In this specific situation, we have what

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Speaker 4: on our hands something called a third And in any relationship,

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Speaker 4: a third can be a controlling mother in law. It

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Speaker 4: could be this best friend that kind of crosses limits.

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Speaker 4: A third is something or someone that threatens the bond

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Speaker 4: and partnership between the two people who are in the relationship,

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Speaker 4: and is a period of time where there's a transition.

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Speaker 4: So when two people get together, maybe they do have

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Speaker 4: that best friend that used to do everything together and

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Speaker 4: then there's like a gradual kind of shifting and limits

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Speaker 4: are put. Not that you abandon the friendship, but that

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Speaker 4: friendship looks a little bit different, and you want to

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Speaker 4: as a partner, make sure that your partner knows that

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Speaker 4: they are the priority, that the relationship is the priority,

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Speaker 4: and if they're uncomfortable, then you have conversations about that

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Speaker 4: and things are renegotiated. You can't live your bachelor life

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Speaker 4: like you did or your bachelorette life like you did

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Speaker 4: when you are creating a partnership with someone. So in

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Speaker 4: this case, it seems like the third was this best

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Speaker 4: friend and maybe the intention was innocent, but the reality

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Speaker 4: is it was impacting the person who is in the relationship,

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Speaker 4: the girlfriend, and impacting them in a negative way, and

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Speaker 4: it's seemed like this boyfriend didn't really care.

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Speaker 2: And he's like, well, I used to do it like this.

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Speaker 2: I used to have these trips, I used to do

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Speaker 2: the sleepovers.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to just keep doing the thing that I

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Speaker 4: want to do. And unfortunately that shows that this person

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Speaker 4: isn't that we oriented and it's really like, well, what

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Speaker 4: feels good for me, what's comfortable for me and you?

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Speaker 4: If you want a partnership, you need to build that

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Speaker 4: muscle and that skill to think for we to think

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Speaker 4: as a team. And this relationship, whether it was this

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Speaker 4: best friend being an issue or it's later on down

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Speaker 4: the road, maybe they have a family, there's gonna be

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Speaker 4: another thing where it shows he's going to choose being

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Speaker 4: selfish and what he wants to do and she's just

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Speaker 4: shit out of luck.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you can cut our edge.

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Speaker 3: I love it already.

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Speaker 1: I love that you're doing the version of it where

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Speaker 1: it's just about more about being selfish versus the laser

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Speaker 1: focus of this specific relationship, because it just looks to

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Speaker 1: me like it's not thinking as the team. And so

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Speaker 1: my other question would be at what point because she

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Speaker 1: did mention this was like beginning stages. You know, this

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Speaker 1: seems like maybe they didn't date that long. I'm not

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Speaker 1: even sure if they're still together. But at what point

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Speaker 1: should we start kind of analyzing our life and looking

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Speaker 1: at our relationships outside of our romantic relationship that we

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Speaker 1: just began? Like does that that? Did that word that

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Speaker 1: in a way that makes sense? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: So, like, is there a time point in the relationship

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Speaker 4: where it's like, okay, like let's kind of do an

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Speaker 4: inventory of all the threats of the relationship.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean because at the beginning, you don't know

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Speaker 1: if you're going to stay with someone, right, Like, if

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Speaker 1: you just go on a couple of dates with someone,

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Speaker 1: it's not like you should uproot your entire life or

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Speaker 1: the way you do things. Yet.

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Speaker 4: For sure, Yeah, I think there's a point in time

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Speaker 4: where it's no longer just dating, and it's two people

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Speaker 4: who've made a conscious decision of we're going to choose

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Speaker 4: to level up and deep in the investment in this

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Speaker 4: commitment and we are walking on a path of building

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Speaker 4: a partnership. When you make that decision, then things do

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Speaker 4: start to change. You have to start thinking about, Okay,

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Speaker 4: my apartment we want to live together. Are they just

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Speaker 4: going to move into my you know, single bachelor place

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Speaker 4: with all my stuff here, or are we going to

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Speaker 4: think we like, there's all these decisions that you have

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Speaker 4: to start to make that are different from when you

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Speaker 4: were just purely a single person.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like she was maybe picking up on

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Speaker 1: the instinct that he wasn't operating as a partnership at all.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And.

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Speaker 3: It also doesn't it's not that clear how long the

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Speaker 3: relationship was. She just said I dated for a while,

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Speaker 3: So I wonder if she the writer was further along

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Speaker 3: mentally than he was in the relationship and he you know, like,

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Speaker 3: I mean, it seems like there was a decent amount

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Speaker 3: of time, but like this could have been two months,

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Speaker 3: you know. Yeah. And I can also understand from the

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Speaker 3: person who wrote this her perspective of like not wanting

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Speaker 3: to seem like a bitch to the best friend, because

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Speaker 3: then she's gonna be in easy ear about like why

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Speaker 3: are you dating this girl? She doesn't seem like anyone

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Speaker 3: that you should be with, Like, she doesn't seem to

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Speaker 3: trust our relationship. So it's a really touchy sort of thing.

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Speaker 3: To walk it seems like.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a really good point ship. And ultimately, in

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Speaker 4: this case, it is up to the boyfriend to create

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Speaker 4: those limits and boundaries. It's not hers. When there's a

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Speaker 4: third right and now zooming out. If you have a

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Speaker 4: mother that's constantly controlling, like looking into your life and

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Speaker 4: they're coming into your relationship, it's not the wife's responsibility

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Speaker 4: to then have a conversation with her.

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Speaker 2: Mother in law. She talks to her husband.

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Speaker 4: The husband's like, Okay, I'm going to take care of this,

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Speaker 4: and the husband goes and does his thing to make

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Speaker 4: sure that he's protecting the relationship bubble.

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Speaker 1: So ultimately, men and women it's totally fine to be

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Speaker 1: friends and they can't be like, it's not like you're

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Speaker 1: attracted to every man or woman in this world.

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Speaker 2: And let's be realistic here.

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Speaker 4: You can be friends with someone of the opposite sex

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Speaker 4: and maybe they do think you're really pretty mm hmm.

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Speaker 4: There's gonna be people who are going to be attracted

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Speaker 4: to you. There's going to be people that you're going

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Speaker 4: to look at you, Oh, you're attractive, But it's ultimately

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Speaker 4: up to you as a person in a relationship that

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Speaker 4: is committed that if you've chosen loyalty and monogamy, that

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Speaker 4: you stay in integrity with that. And you can't control

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Speaker 4: all of the factors that are going to be happening

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Speaker 4: in the world. And if this person looks at you

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Speaker 4: this way, and like someone complicent compliments you, you can't

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Speaker 4: control all of that, right, right, and and so like

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Speaker 4: I like, for me personally, I have a lot of

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Speaker 4: friends male female, and I'm sure, yeah, some of them

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Speaker 4: probably think I'm hot. Maybe like I was single, they

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Speaker 4: would date me. That's not my it's not my problem.

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Speaker 4: Like I know my boundaries, I know where I'm going.

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Speaker 4: I don't want to date them. Like I'm committed to

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Speaker 4: my partnership. So it's not about like, ooh, let's pluck

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Speaker 4: out anyone who thinks Amy's pretty. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I also like in my relationship with my boyfriend, we

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Speaker 3: you know, it's like if we see someone we think

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Speaker 3: is hot, like we started very early allowing the other

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Speaker 3: person to say it, you know what I mean, because

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Speaker 3: it's like there's no reason why we sho why that

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Speaker 3: should in my opinion, there's no reason why my opinion

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Speaker 3: of what someone looks like should change. It doesn't mean

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Speaker 3: I want to sleep with them. But I can note

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Speaker 3: if a hot person walks by, just like I can

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Speaker 3: note that a beautiful woman walks by and I don't

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Speaker 3: want to sleep with her, you know. Like, so I

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Speaker 3: you know, I think it's it is really about like

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Speaker 3: setting the boundaries early on, because you know, if it's

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Speaker 3: not if it's an unspoken thing and you don't know,

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Speaker 3: and then suddenly you start doing doing something out of

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Speaker 3: the blue that makes somebody really uncomfortable, it might kind

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Speaker 3: of be too late, like you might like have lost

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Speaker 3: that battle and could you know, cause a much worse fight,

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Speaker 3: I would think, you know. So I think it's like

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Speaker 3: for boundaries like this, they need to be discussed pretty

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Speaker 3: early on. And this seemed like, you know, it was

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Speaker 3: an obvious thing right out of the get go, you know,

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Speaker 3: like so maybe maybe the writer I don't know what

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Speaker 3: her name is, but maybe she just took too long

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Speaker 3: to like address it and it became something that like

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Speaker 3: was so much bigger than it needed to be.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think.

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Speaker 4: It is important that there is when, especially in the

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Speaker 4: beginning stages of building, there has to be.

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Speaker 2: A sense of safety.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And so, like some people might have an issue

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Speaker 4: with the best friend, some people might not. I know again, personally,

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Speaker 4: my when I just started dating my partner, my boyfriend

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Speaker 4: went on a meditation retreat with his best friend who's

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Speaker 4: a girl, and I was like, amazing, this is awesome.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, have a fun time.

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Speaker 4: Like I just didn't like if I was really if

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Speaker 4: there was something about the relationship or us that I

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Speaker 4: was a little bit insecure about, maybe I wouldn't have

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Speaker 4: been so open minded about it. And I think, like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: it is sometimes it's not rational, right, Like you might

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Speaker 4: be like, what, I've known this person, They're like a

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Speaker 4: sibling to me, and your new partner feels a little

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Speaker 4: bit weird. And again, if you want to invest in

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Speaker 4: the relationship, then you want to then focus like, Okay,

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Speaker 4: what can I do to create a sense of safety

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Speaker 4: that is reasonable? And when a foundation is built and

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Speaker 4: you feel connected and two people feel safe, a lot

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Speaker 4: of these things are just symptomatic of something else.

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Speaker 1: It's so true. Would I totally agree the guy that

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Speaker 1: I'm dating currently, his best friend is a girl, and

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Speaker 1: I've never and I've all people tip I think you

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Speaker 1: would be like oof because I have typically in the

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Speaker 1: past had a hard time just because of being cheated

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Speaker 1: on in the past and things like that, this relationship

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Speaker 1: has never once bothered me, but it's because of the

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Speaker 1: way he's handled it. And like I've met her, I

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Speaker 1: know the reader the writer mentioned that she never was introduced,

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Speaker 1: And sometimes it just takes that one simple thing and

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Speaker 1: it removes all the questions. You feel totally comfortable because

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Speaker 1: you feel included, and then there's no guessing. So let's

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Speaker 1: talk about the boundaries. I know we've mentioned that word

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Speaker 1: a couple times. What are some good boundaries that people

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Speaker 1: can set if they do find themselves in a situation

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Speaker 1: like this where their partner is best friends or friends

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Speaker 1: with someone from the opposite sex.

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Speaker 4: So are you asking the case of like this boyfriend,

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Speaker 4: what he could have done.

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Speaker 1: Well, maybe let's do both. What could the girlfriend make, Like,

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Speaker 1: what are some requests that maybe she could make to

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Speaker 1: ask for safety? You know, like she obviously didn't feel safe,

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Speaker 1: so was there something she asked from him? And then

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Speaker 1: let's talk about maybe from the boyfriends perconspective, what are

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Speaker 1: some boundaries that if you are the one in the

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Speaker 1: situation where you have the friend of the opposite sex,

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Speaker 1: that maybe you could be aware of or kind of

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Speaker 1: keep on your Radar et cetera.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, So if I was a girl, this is

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Speaker 4: what I would have said to my boyfriend. I'd be like, Hey,

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Speaker 4: I know you have this really incredible friendship and I really,

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Speaker 4: you know, want to respect that, and I really want

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Speaker 4: to like continue building our relationship. I would love to

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Speaker 4: meet her. I that would make me feel really comfortable.

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Speaker 4: And I know that you, you know, have a history of

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Speaker 4: like doing these things together, and I'm not going to

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Speaker 4: encroach on your time. This is what would make me

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Speaker 4: feel really comfortable meeting her maybe once in a while.

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Speaker 4: Coming along to a thing, you know, then you kind

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Speaker 4: of state your preferences. You're not making a demand. You're

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Speaker 4: not being like, well, I need to go to that

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Speaker 4: thing then, because when you make a demand, what happens

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Speaker 4: is automatically people have two reactions.

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Speaker 2: They are either going to rebel against you and be

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Speaker 2: like fuck you, or they're going to comply and then

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Speaker 2: they're going to resent you. So they have to ultimately choose.

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Speaker 2: You can only say to preference. That's what I would say.

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Speaker 2: I would let them know how to make it comfortable

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Speaker 2: for me.

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Speaker 1: Okay, And then if you're the boyfriend and your partner

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Speaker 1: expresses to you certain things that you would you know,

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Speaker 1: the safety pieces or whatever. Then what do you need

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Speaker 1: to be alert or aware of within your relationship with

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Speaker 1: the friend?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so I think at that point you have to

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Speaker 4: if you're in this situation, if you're the guy, you

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Speaker 4: have to like look at what is my partner asking?

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Speaker 2: Okay? And is it reasonable?

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Speaker 4: Like if you were in their position, like.

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Speaker 2: Like are they totally being crazy?

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Speaker 4: Because I think sometimes we get defensive, We're like, oh,

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Speaker 4: you're being crazy or being sensitive, but like really are they?

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Speaker 4: Am I doing everything that I possibly can to create

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Speaker 4: a safe container for my partner and be really honest

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Speaker 4: with you yourself, And if you don't know, I would

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Speaker 4: really get a second opinion, probably from a professional expert,

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Speaker 4: not someone who's just going to agree with you.

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Speaker 2: That will help you.

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Speaker 4: And then when you go to your best friend or whatnot,

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Speaker 4: I wouldn't blame it on your like oh, yeah, you

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Speaker 4: know what, my girlfriend doesn't really like us hanging out,

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Speaker 4: just be like, you know, I know, we had like

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Speaker 4: that trip schedule together and like I'm dating this person,

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Speaker 4: it's going really well, and I think just so I

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Speaker 4: could like really make her feel comfortable and also like

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Speaker 4: be able to have some time with her. I'm gonna

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Speaker 4: pause on the trip and like, why don't we instead,

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Speaker 4: like just do a dinner together, Like you're gonna also

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Speaker 4: like into create your best friend and your new friend.

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Speaker 4: And look, in this situation, this guy's best friend was

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Speaker 4: getting all of the emotional connection without being in a relationship.

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Speaker 2: Of course she's gonna make it, I'm say.

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Speaker 4: Obviously, yeah, and she probably is, like whether you know,

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Speaker 4: I'm sure she's a good person, but probably deep down

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Speaker 4: she's probably protective of this relationship that was really nourishing

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Speaker 4: for her. She probably doesn't want to let it go either.

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Speaker 1: That's what I was going to say, Because there's that

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Speaker 1: thing where like, if you're in the relationship, you have

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Speaker 1: this friendship with this person of the opposite sex, what

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Speaker 1: needs can you get met ultimately that you wouldn't then

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Speaker 1: have to turn to your partner, you know, like if

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Speaker 1: you start talking to your friend about the issues you

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Speaker 1: and your partner are having, that's bad for the relationship, right,

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Speaker 1: And so it's like where where do you draw the line? Though,

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Speaker 1: especially if it's your like best friend, your confidant, that

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Speaker 1: you usually go to something about it being the opposite

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Speaker 1: sex to me always seems to kind of ping me

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Speaker 1: a little more of like, oh, but they could be

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Speaker 1: going and getting their emotional needs met there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I hear you.

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Speaker 4: I think it's a valid fear, right, Like, yeah, we

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Speaker 4: want to be able to de risk as much as

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Speaker 4: possible so that we don't get hurt or we don't

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Speaker 4: get betrayed. But ultimately, when you choose someone, the you know,

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Speaker 4: the hope is you are going to be in integrity

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Speaker 4: and the partner you've chosen is also going to be

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Speaker 4: an integrity and there's only so much we can do

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Speaker 4: control to control them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and she drops right.

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Speaker 3: I Mean what's interesting too, is like in the paradigm

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Speaker 3: that we're talking about now about opposite sex, Like if

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Speaker 3: you think about it gay and relate the gay and

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Speaker 3: lesbian relationships, like most gays they're best friends or men, right,

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Speaker 3: and most lesbians best friends are women. So it's like

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Speaker 3: you're kind of dealing with it all the time, and

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Speaker 3: so I think it is. I think Amy brings up

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Speaker 3: the best point is like you just have to like

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Speaker 3: have faith in like the integrity of the person that

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Speaker 3: you're choosing to be with. I mean in the in

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Speaker 3: a in a in the straight scenario, Like, my concern

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Speaker 3: would be that, like if say I'm the man and

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Speaker 3: I'm talking to my female best friend about thing issues

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Speaker 3: and relationship to get like a woman's perspective, Like I wonder,

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Speaker 3: like the if the chance of like because you're being

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Speaker 3: vulnerable and you're talking about things that are not going

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Speaker 3: well in your relationship, if it opens up a portal

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Speaker 3: in your friendship that wasn't really there that's when I met,

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Speaker 3: like something that happened that like wasn't there before, then

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Speaker 3: you start having real problems because the emotional connection changes.

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Speaker 3: It's not just I love you, you're my best friend,

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Speaker 3: it's like, wait a minute, I haven't seen this vulnerable

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Speaker 3: side of you, and I'm falling in love with you,

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Speaker 3: and maybe that I think that could be a real concern.

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Speaker 3: But I also think that probably happens in the game

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Speaker 3: the gay on the gay side of things as well.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, I think ultimately our relationship there are things

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Speaker 4: that are sacred. And if you find you're constantly going

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Speaker 4: to your friend, whether they're same sex, opposite sex, whatever,

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Speaker 4: and you're you're kind of spilling the secrets and the

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Speaker 4: deepest intimacy of your relationship there's something that's unhealthy there. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: so either you know, get professional help, or you know,

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Speaker 4: like take a step back and look at why you're

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Speaker 4: going to your friend and revealing all this stuff that

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Speaker 4: is actually meant to be you having a conversation with

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Speaker 4: your partner to deal with it.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes we don't deal with our.

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Speaker 4: Own partner because we're just talking to someone else about it, right, well.

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Speaker 1: Right, And the stakes are higher when you're dealing with

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Speaker 1: your partner. There's emotions, there's the relationship couldn't the relationship

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Speaker 1: could be on the line with those conversations, like hard conversations,

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Speaker 1: and stakes are just so much higher in a romantic

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Speaker 1: situation than if you're just venting to a friend, right, yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So if this person was a client of yours and

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Speaker 1: came to you and said exactly what she said in

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Speaker 1: the email to you, are there any major red flags

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Speaker 1: that you would just say, well, we should take note

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Speaker 1: of this. Is it just to go back to she

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Speaker 1: obviously didn't feel safe. As the bigger picture.

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Speaker 4: I would have first worked with her to do whatever

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Speaker 4: she could to communicate and know that she's kind of

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Speaker 4: done her part. And if she communicated and he was

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Speaker 4: like I don't care, then yeah, like that's right now,

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Speaker 4: Like this person is not a team player with you,

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Speaker 4: and so yes, get out. But if she kind of

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Speaker 4: was like, oh well, I kind of don't want to

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Speaker 4: say anything and maybe he should just know. I would

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Speaker 4: then focus on, well, why do you not communicate your

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Speaker 4: needs or you push them down? What's there? What's the

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Speaker 4: root of that? And we would work on that versus

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Speaker 4: before we work on him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh I love these points. Well. As I mentioned before,

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Speaker 1: Amy is the founder of the Breakup boot Camp, which

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Speaker 1: I have attended. It was very helpful in my life.

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Speaker 1: But you've also now started a podcast, so it's much

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Speaker 1: more accessible to people to learn about the rules of

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Speaker 1: the Breakup boot Camp. I guess if you will, do

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Speaker 1: you want to tell us what we can find on

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Speaker 1: the podcast?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So it's seven episodes. Each episode is on a

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Speaker 4: different stage of the healing process because you need different

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Speaker 4: strategies depending on where you're at. So what you're gonna

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00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 4: do in the shock stage, it's very different than when

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Speaker 4: you're in the denial stage. And it really whether you're

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Speaker 4: in a breakup or you're not. It just really goes

427
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Speaker 4: into the science and psychology of relationship patterns. Why do

428
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Speaker 4: we choose the people we do? Why do we act codependent?

429
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Speaker 4: Why don't we stay at our boundaries? Why do we

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Speaker 4: go for the unavailable person? We so often we think

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Speaker 4: it's because of our ex. It's our ex's fault. They're

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Speaker 4: like this, But like, it's never just about the X.

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Speaker 4: It's recycled paid. And if we don't figure out our patterns,

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Speaker 4: they don't magically disappear through time. They follow you from

435
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Speaker 4: relationship to relationship.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not just about finding the new relationship and

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Speaker 1: then you're fixed. I try that one, guys. Just let

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00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:55,160
Speaker 1: me to just tell you it's not about that. Well,

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00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 1: you guys, go check out that podcast. I'll put the

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00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,679
Speaker 1: link in the description of this podcast. Where else can

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00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 1: people find you?

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Speaker 4: You can follow me on Instagram at miss amy Chan

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00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 4: on My website is renew Breakup bootcamp dot com.

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00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 1: Amazing, And again I'll put all of that in the

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00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 1: description of this podcast. Thank you so much for being here.

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Speaker 3: It is always such a pleasure, so good to finally

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00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:16,879
Speaker 3: meet you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, nice to be too.

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Speaker 1: Thank you guys for listening.