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Speaker 1: Welcome to zero. I am Akshatrati. This week one goal,

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Speaker 1: two technologies, three times the renewables. It's day five of

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Speaker 1: cop and it's been busy around here. Over the weekend,

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Speaker 1: we heard leaders from more than one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: countries wanting to secure a more ambitious deal on tackling

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Speaker 1: climate change. My country is experiencing devastating impacts of climate change.

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Speaker 2: This crisis must never be seen as a distant threat.

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Speaker 2: Let's make this called the first one where the benefits

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Speaker 2: of our concrete commitments exceed our excuses and the carbon

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Speaker 2: footprints of the planes we arrived on.

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Speaker 1: There have already been some significant successes, include the announcement

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Speaker 1: of half a billion dollars is set up the Loss

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Speaker 1: and Damage Fund, and of course there have been many

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Speaker 1: many side deals which you can read about on Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: dot com for free during these two weeks of coal.

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Speaker 1: But a lot still remains to be agreed on, including

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Speaker 1: the goal to triple renewables globally by twenty thirty. If

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Speaker 1: it's achieved, electricity will be the first economic sector to

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Speaker 1: get on track for net zero by twenty fifty. Currently,

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Speaker 1: the world has about three point six terraworts of renewables

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Speaker 1: installed that took us more than two decades to build.

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Speaker 1: Tripling it would mean getting to eleven terrrawarts in just

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Speaker 1: seven years. That is a lot of solar panels and

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Speaker 1: wind turbines to deploy. And there are other challenges like

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Speaker 1: building out battery storage and grids all around the world.

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Speaker 1: So how exactly are we going to do it? To

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Speaker 1: find out, I spoke with Jenny Chase, one of the

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Speaker 1: lead authors of a new report by Bloomberg ne EF.

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Speaker 1: It looks at everything that is needed to achieve the goal.

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Speaker 1: Jenny is being a lead solar analyst and the author

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Speaker 1: of Solar Power Finance Without the Jargon, a second edition

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Speaker 1: of which will be published early next year. Jenny, welcome

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Speaker 1: back to the show.

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Speaker 3: Nice to be here at SHAD.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about tripling renewable energy by twenty thirty.

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Speaker 1: Let's start with the basics before we triple renewables. Where

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Speaker 1: are we right now? What is our starting point?

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Speaker 3: As of the end of twenty twenty two, we have

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Speaker 3: about three point six terrawatts of renewable energy and this

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Speaker 3: is wind, solar, big and small, hydro geothermal by a mass,

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Speaker 3: and marine and tidle. Now the bit of that that

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Speaker 3: anyone expects to drastically increase is a solar and wind section.

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Speaker 3: And it's honestly great that we can even talk about

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Speaker 3: tripling renewables or talk about eleven terrawatts of renewables, which

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Speaker 3: is the other number that's being battered around, because ten

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Speaker 3: years ago eleven terrawatts of renewables would have been an

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Speaker 3: insane target. Nobody would have believed we can get there.

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Speaker 3: And the reason why we can actually talk about this

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Speaker 3: maybe being achievable is that wind and solar have got

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Speaker 3: really cheap over the last decade. Solar will probably be

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Speaker 3: pretty close or even exceed tripling. The challenge is wind.

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Speaker 3: Our win team, who are sitting in different regions trying

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Speaker 3: to come up with a sensible forecast for twenty thirty

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Speaker 3: based on pipeline, based on policy, based on what's going

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Speaker 3: on in their regions, are saying that no, wind is

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Speaker 3: not going to triple by twenty thirty. It isn't the

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Speaker 3: end for renewables if governments don't sign off on this,

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Speaker 3: but it would really help to have some acceleration, particularly

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Speaker 3: on the wind side, and so.

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Speaker 1: The difference between where we will be with business as usual,

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Speaker 1: which is nine terrorworts, and where tripling would take us

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Speaker 1: eleven terror warts is two terrorwards, which is a big difference.

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Speaker 3: It's a big difference. And the other problem is that

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Speaker 3: that two terror watts that fall shore is mostly win

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Speaker 3: and wind is better than solar on a capacity basis

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Speaker 3: because wind structurally has capacity factors of somewhere between thirty

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Speaker 3: and fifty five percent, whereas even in the very sunniest deserts,

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Speaker 3: solar has a capacity factor of maybe thirty percent.

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Speaker 1: Which is just basically a way of saying that at

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Speaker 1: any given time, because in a day, the sun only

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Speaker 1: shines for so much time and the wind only blows

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Speaker 1: for so much time, the one hundred percent capacity is

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Speaker 1: never reached. You only get a fraction of one hundred

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Speaker 1: percent in actual generated electricity.

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Speaker 3: Yes, fundamentally, per installed megawatt of gigawatt, wind generates two

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Speaker 3: or three times as much as solar.

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Speaker 1: Obviously, the entire point of all this is to try

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Speaker 1: and reduce emissions. So in the scenarios we do have

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Speaker 1: around tripling renewable energy, what kind of emissions reductions do

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Speaker 1: we get if we achieve that goal.

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Speaker 3: So the tripling renewables would have put us quite close

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Speaker 3: to Benf's net zero scenario, which ended up with ten

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Speaker 3: point five to ten what's by twenty thirty, and we

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Speaker 3: estimate that the emissions reduction is about nine point three

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Speaker 3: billion tons of carbon emissions in twenty thirty.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that is stunning. I mean, given where we are

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Speaker 1: right now, which is thirty eight forty billion tons of

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Speaker 1: CO two on an annual basis, that's like a twenty

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Speaker 1: five percent reduction.

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Speaker 3: It's a start. I mean, this is by twenty thirty.

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Speaker 3: That is both scarily close and a long time away

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Speaker 3: to be talking about twenty five percent reduction. I wish

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Speaker 3: we were looking at doing it quickly, but you simply

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Speaker 3: cannot turn the juggernaut much faster than that.

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Speaker 1: And so it puts us on the net zero track,

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Speaker 1: which is of course, we must recognize the net zero

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Speaker 1: track has all other sectors of emissions that also need

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Speaker 1: to decline. We always knew, given how well solar and

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Speaker 1: wind prices we're doing, that electricity sector is likely to

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Speaker 1: reduce emissions the fastest, but on everything else we are

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Speaker 1: quite far away. But let's go back to tripling renewable

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Speaker 1: energy and just break it all down. You talked about

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Speaker 1: how solar will play a big part in getting us

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Speaker 1: there because solar has become cheaper, faster, and is easier

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Speaker 1: to deploy, And you said we are on track and

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Speaker 1: maybe even exceed tripling of solar. Now, why is that

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Speaker 1: the case? Why is it that solar just makes for

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Speaker 1: the easiest form of renewable deployment there is in the world.

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Speaker 3: Our solar is incredible.

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Speaker 1: Act chat.

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Speaker 3: The thing is that photovoltaics is the first bulk electricity

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Speaker 3: source we've ever had that doesn't involve turning a turbine.

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Speaker 3: Do you know how special that is? We finally broke

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Speaker 3: the tyranny of turning stuff around to drive a motor

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Speaker 3: to generate electricity, and it's super cheap and just over

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Speaker 3: the over the past few weeks, solar modules have dropped

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Speaker 3: to a price we didn't expect to see for a

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Speaker 3: few years. Yet they are scary cheap, which is really

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Speaker 3: frightening if you're a module manufacturer trying to sell These

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Speaker 3: things exceeds our expectations and how much gets built nearly

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Speaker 3: every year, and it exceeds our expectations about how cheap

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Speaker 3: it can get, not relidly, so otherwise we could change

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Speaker 3: our expectations for better and that would make our forecasting

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Speaker 3: much easier. But solar just keeps hitting it out of

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Speaker 3: the park and it's not done yet.

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Speaker 1: So why can't we just rely on solar, Why try

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Speaker 1: and trouble ourselves to try and meet goals on wind

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Speaker 1: and hydro.

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Speaker 3: Well, I've been an expert on solar for eighteen years

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Speaker 3: act shat and the answer to that is that solar

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Speaker 3: doesn't generate at night, and it doesn't generate much in

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Speaker 3: the winter. Is a highly technical answer, and I know

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Speaker 3: this sounds silly, but as solar starts to be twenty

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Speaker 3: percent of your electricity makes thirty percent, that does actually

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Speaker 3: become a problem because the other sources that you want

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Speaker 3: to add to the grid potentially needed to make money

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Speaker 3: in daytime hours. So wind, for example, generates electricity in

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Speaker 3: the winter and at night, but also during the daytime.

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Speaker 3: Not getting any money for electricity in the daytime and

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Speaker 3: in the summer, that does hit the economics of wind farms,

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Speaker 3: and one of the things that governments would have to

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Speaker 3: do is make sure the wind gets built anyway.

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Speaker 1: So, okay, we can't rely on solar to meet our

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Speaker 1: renewables goals alone. That means we need wind power, and

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Speaker 1: that is where we are not on track. So what

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Speaker 1: is it that we can do to try and get

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Speaker 1: wind power deployment back on track?

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Speaker 3: So first of all, to build wind we need to

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Speaker 3: build more grid because wind farms are not distributed. They

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Speaker 3: tend to be in specific locations that have to be

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Speaker 3: quite big, so they need big grid connections to areas

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Speaker 3: of land where you're allowed to build wind turbines. And

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Speaker 3: easing permitting wields is also important, which is not to

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Speaker 3: say that we should just build wind everywhere, but governments

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Speaker 3: can allocate places and types of land which are suitable

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Speaker 3: for wind farm development and potentially build grid to those.

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Speaker 3: Those are the two really big things. And for offshore

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Speaker 3: wind actually there's the additional possibility of holding auctions where

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Speaker 3: the governments do site surveys on the seabed because it's

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Speaker 3: pretty expensive to look into a maritime environment and assess

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Speaker 3: the resource, and often you have developers doing the same

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Speaker 3: report for the same bit of land, which is silly.

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Speaker 3: Governments should take that over and do it once and say, hey,

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Speaker 3: anyone want to build an offshore wind farm.

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Speaker 1: Here. The renewable stories for all the difficulties that some

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Speaker 1: parts are facing and some governments are facing is a

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Speaker 1: good one, and given the level of deployment that we

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Speaker 1: are going to see over this decade, it's also going

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Speaker 1: to be one that will require a ton of money

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Speaker 1: going into the sector. What do the numbers say when

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Speaker 1: we look at tripling renewables? How much money are we

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Speaker 1: talking here?

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Speaker 3: So it's a lot of money, but perhaps not a

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Speaker 3: totally unreasonable amount. BNF calculates that last year about five

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Speaker 3: hundred and sixty four billion dollars was invested in renewables.

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Speaker 3: To be on track for net zero, about one point

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Speaker 3: two trillion dollars need to be invested in wind and

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Speaker 3: solar every year between twenty twenty three and twenty thirty.

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Speaker 3: On average, it actually ramps up a bit, it's less

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Speaker 3: than the first half of the decade. In addition to that,

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Speaker 3: investment in grids needs to ramp up as well, to

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Speaker 3: about seven hundred and seventy seven billion in twenty thirty.

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Speaker 3: So that's the grid to take electricity away from all

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Speaker 3: of these sources. And also a very significant amount has

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Speaker 3: to be invested in batteries. So the amount of batteries

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Speaker 3: worldwide has to increase by sixteen times by twenty thirty.

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Speaker 1: And of course we're talking about all this money as

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Speaker 1: if it's just a cost, but we've deployed so much

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Speaker 1: renewables not because it's just a cost, but it's actually beneficial, right,

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Speaker 1: somebody is paying for that electricity, and building renewables is

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Speaker 1: also pulling money away from fossil.

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Speaker 3: Fuels absolutely, I mean, you buy renewables so you never

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Speaker 3: have to buy oil again.

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Speaker 1: To meet the tripling renewable energy goal, we need to

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Speaker 1: deploy seven hundred and twenty gigawatts of battery storage worldwide

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Speaker 1: by twenty thirty. That's like sixteen times deployed by twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty two, so it's way more than the tripling that

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Speaker 1: we need to do on renewable energy capacity.

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Speaker 3: It's a lot of batteries, that's for sure, But on

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Speaker 3: the other hand, the battery market was quite small at

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Speaker 3: the end of twenty twenty two. Batteries is in a

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Speaker 3: much earlier stage of deployment, so our battery team actually

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Speaker 3: already says that energy storage capacity will increase fourteen point

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Speaker 3: five times by twenty thirty, So getting to sixteen point

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Speaker 3: one times, that's really just surrounding.

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Speaker 1: Eer batteries aren't in the target for tripling renewables because

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Speaker 1: obviously it's just about tripling the sources of supply for

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Speaker 1: clean energy. But why does battery investment have to rise

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Speaker 1: that much.

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Speaker 3: Well, if we don't build batteries, we're not going to

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Speaker 3: be able to use all this solar and wind that

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Speaker 3: we're building, particularly all this solar. The renewables build out

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Speaker 3: relies on making the way that we use and store

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Speaker 3: and sometimes even catail electricity better and more flexible because

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Speaker 3: solar and wind do generate only when the resource is there.

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Speaker 3: That's a big difference between yesterday's power system and the

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Speaker 3: future power system that actually we can make sustainable and

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Speaker 3: we have to move our demand to when there is

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Speaker 3: electricity available. Batteries are one way of doing it. It's

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Speaker 3: not the only way, but we definitely need to build batteries.

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Speaker 1: Well. Wind has problems, as we've seen, the industry is

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Speaker 1: kind of struggling right now, but solar is cheap and

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Speaker 1: clearly getting deployed much much faster. Could we just use

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Speaker 1: batteries to maximize solar and not really worry that much

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Speaker 1: about wind.

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Speaker 3: In parts of the world that will work. So if

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Speaker 3: you're near the equator, you do pretty regularly get sunshine

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Speaker 3: every day, but even there there are weeks where there's

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Speaker 3: very little sun and I think that will drain even

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Speaker 3: the biggest battery. And the other thing is if if

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Speaker 3: you're just looking at tripling capacity, wind does just generate

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Speaker 3: more power, more electricity than solar. So it would be

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Speaker 3: really good to have a diverse portfolio of clean energy

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Speaker 3: sources almost wherever you are.

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Speaker 1: Energy security is another issue that has come to the forefront,

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Speaker 1: especially in the last few years with wars, with volatile

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Speaker 1: fossil fuel prices, with reliability of supply, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of conversation going into COP twenty eight is going to

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Speaker 1: be about well, we need to triple renewable energy, but

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Speaker 1: also make sure that we are energy secure. So what

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Speaker 1: does it mean just from a renewable perspective to try

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Speaker 1: and make supply more secure.

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Speaker 3: I think fundamentally renewables build is always going to make

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Speaker 3: supply more secure, because if you've got solar wind on

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Speaker 3: your land, that doesn't go away if you have problems

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Speaker 3: with other stuff coming in. However, there's also a lot

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Speaker 3: of talk about supply chains, so manufacturing your own solar panels,

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Speaker 3: manufacturing own wind turbines, and there is a lot of

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Speaker 3: investment going into this. The US Inflation of Adaption Act

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Speaker 3: makes it very attractive to manufacture solar modules in the States.

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Speaker 3: India's doing something somewhat similar, bit a bit less generous,

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Speaker 3: and it's possible that Europe will put some money into

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Speaker 3: factories as well. And in fact we estimate that the

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Speaker 3: global supply chain for wind, solar and batteries is probably

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Speaker 3: invested enough, at least within near term, there are enough

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Speaker 3: factories out there to supply the tripling renewables future with like.

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Speaker 1: Minor tweaks, they're not that many things on which we

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Speaker 1: can say, well, we are on track for net zero.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting that manufacturing capacity wise, it seems like we

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Speaker 1: are quite there. It's more really deploying all that capacity

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Speaker 1: that's sitting.

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Speaker 3: Definitely, the bottlenecks are all deployment, honestly, and it's not

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Speaker 3: usually even economic barriers. It's usually things like grid and

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Speaker 3: land and supply and getting long term security in place.

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Speaker 3: It's things that potentially governments can debottom.

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Speaker 1: That after the break we get into the og of

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Speaker 1: renewable energy hydropower. Now we've spent a lot of time

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Speaker 1: talking about a wind and solar for very good reason.

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Speaker 1: But until recently, the source of renewable energy that made

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Speaker 1: for the greatest supply of renewable power was hydro. Does

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Speaker 1: hydro feature in any way in this goal to reach

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Speaker 1: tripling of renewable energy?

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Speaker 3: So I think the structure of the target probably doesn't

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Speaker 3: benefit hydro, particularly because hydro has a high capacity vector.

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Speaker 3: It's clearly advantageous for countries that can build hydro to

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Speaker 3: add more hydro. My suspicion is though, that it will

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Speaker 3: not be a big part of the increase. Building new

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Speaker 3: hydro isn't trivial because you need a suitable place for it,

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Speaker 3: and most developed countries have already pretty much developed the

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Speaker 3: suitable resources that they have. A hydro is also quite

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Speaker 3: susceptible to drought. The regions that are heavily dependent on

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Speaker 3: hydro do sometimes have problems in drought. It's actually a

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Speaker 3: good compliment of solar because of course solar generates more

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Speaker 3: in those times of year, so it can help you

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Speaker 3: use the hydro to just balance the solar. But yes,

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Speaker 3: it's quite difficult for us to imagine that there will

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Speaker 3: be a huge hydro build out.

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Speaker 1: Are there other renewablelds that are meaningful in trying to

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Speaker 1: meet this tripling renewables capacity.

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Speaker 3: There aren't any that are quite as easy to scale

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Speaker 3: a solar wind than hydro. I mean, if you have

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Speaker 3: geothermal resources, then build geothermal power plants. That's really great,

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Speaker 3: And it's very unlikely that this statement will actually do

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Speaker 3: anything on nuclear. But nuclear is also an electricity source.

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Speaker 3: There are parts of the world that can probably usefully

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Speaker 3: build that. Otherwise there isn't really anything else that scales

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Speaker 3: in the same way.

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Speaker 1: There is, in fact, some discussion among a group of

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Speaker 1: countries sort of the Coalition of the Willing, that are

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Speaker 1: going to try and put out a goal for tripling

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Speaker 1: nuclear capacity by twenty fifty. So that may be the

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Speaker 1: best outcome that nuclear has had had a cop meeting

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Speaker 1: in forever. I think let's go back to tripling renewable energy,

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Speaker 1: even though the goal is tripling renewables globally. Do all

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Speaker 1: countries need to approach the target in the same way?

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Speaker 3: No, certainly not. Brazil, for example, already gets eighty five

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Speaker 3: percent of its electricity from renewables, mostly hydro, and so

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Speaker 3: it really makes no sense for Brazil to try and

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Speaker 3: triple it's when it was capacity it should focus on

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Speaker 3: the capnizing other parts of its economy instead. And then

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Speaker 3: there are parts like the Middle East and Africa, Sub

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Speaker 3: Saharan Africa, Southeast Asia and India is a really big

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Speaker 3: one where increasing renewables by more than a tripling is

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Speaker 3: not only required to get the role on track from

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Speaker 3: net zero, but it's probably also quite beneficial potentially for

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Speaker 3: bringing electricity to people who haven't had enough in the past,

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Speaker 3: and to leap frog over the need to build centralized

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Speaker 3: fossil fuel power plants. The market that is both expected

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Speaker 3: to triple renewables by twenty thirty and where that would

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Speaker 3: be really enough to be on a net zero pathway

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Speaker 3: is China. China is building huge amounts of solar and

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Speaker 3: wind and also batteries, and China is probably going to

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Speaker 3: be on a net zero pathway. The US and Europe

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Speaker 3: are not expected to triple renewables by twenty thirty. Europe

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Speaker 3: is actually more ambitious than tripling renewables, which is great. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: being ahead is fantastic. The US should speed up. I

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Speaker 3: also suspect that, particularly for Sub Saharan Africa, tripling renewables

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Speaker 3: is not a burden, but an opportunity, and richer countries

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Speaker 3: can certainly help with providing climate finance and making it

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Speaker 3: easier for these to deploy renewables. That should also help

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Speaker 3: them on the development path. It should not be considered

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Speaker 3: a thing that will help them back at this point.

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Speaker 1: And when big economies do invest in renewables, we can

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Speaker 1: see huge differences. So China obviously is the largest maker

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Speaker 1: of all these renewable technologies, but also the largest deployer

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Speaker 1: of renewables. Already, we had some reporting this year that

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Speaker 1: given the level of deployment in China, its emissions are

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Speaker 1: likely to peak this year, decline next year, and if

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Speaker 1: it continues that kind of renewable deployment just remain in

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Speaker 1: structural decrease after that. That's a goal as a country

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Speaker 1: that China had set in the UN that they will

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Speaker 1: peak their emissions before twenty thirty, and if these numbers

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Speaker 1: are correct, it could peak it as soon as twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three. Now you raise the point that the US

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Speaker 1: is not going to be tripling renewable energy according to

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Speaker 1: the forecast have if the US went harder, that could

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Speaker 1: make a big difference.

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Speaker 3: That's true. The thing about the US is that since

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Speaker 3: the Inflation of Reduction Act has been published and brought

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Speaker 3: into law. It's like this car that has the accelerator

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Speaker 3: pressed down really hard, but it's also got the handbrake on.

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Speaker 3: The economics of renewables are fantastic, but it's a really

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Speaker 3: difficult business environment. It's hard to get permits, it's hard

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Speaker 3: to get grid, it's hard to build anything in America,

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Speaker 3: it seems like from afar. So what the US government

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Speaker 3: should focus on is removing bottlenecks. The economics are fantastic

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Speaker 3: and it should go, but it does need to speed up.

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Speaker 3: And our local analysts all look at the numbers and go, oh,

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Speaker 3: I don't think it's going to take off like a rocket.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: We've talked about tripling renewable energy because that's going to

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Speaker 1: be one of the things that will get signed off

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Speaker 1: at COP twenty eight most likely. But there are a

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Speaker 1: few other things that are being talked about, and let's

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Speaker 1: just touch on them briefly. One is doubling energy efficiency.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of a no brainer. You can deploy solutions

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Speaker 1: that would use less energy but give you the same output,

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Speaker 1: and yet it's one that seems to not really be

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Speaker 1: the sexy solution people want to chase.

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Speaker 3: Efficiency is never sexy, and you generally don't get much

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Speaker 3: credit saving energy. I really hope that passes, though, because

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Speaker 3: the best sort of electricity to generate the sort that

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Speaker 3: you never even have to generate because you don't use it.

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Speaker 3: But it's obvious that it's not a splashy, sexy target

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Speaker 3: like tripling renewables capacity.

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Speaker 1: We have seen some movement, given volatility in energy prices

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Speaker 1: over the past few years, where industry and governments have

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Speaker 1: focused on trying to increase efficiency, but you're right, it's

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Speaker 1: just sort of the underused lever. Ultimately, would just those

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Speaker 1: two things do enough to get us to net zero

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Speaker 1: or do we also have to have some form of

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Speaker 1: agreement to reduce fossil fuel.

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Speaker 3: That's a very good question. I think that to get

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Speaker 3: to actual net zero we have to not just decarbonize power,

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Speaker 3: which is as we've discussed, the easy bit. We've also

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Speaker 3: got to decarbonize shipping and transport and agriculture and aviation

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Speaker 3: and industry, and all of those are harder. Yes, we

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Speaker 3: can leave the bulk of that to be on twenty thirty,

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Speaker 3: at which point we'll have loads of cheap and clean electricity.

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Speaker 3: But we've got to start setting the pathway now to

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Speaker 3: do so. So preparations for decarbonizing industry, transport, aviation, agriculture

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Speaker 3: are really important to this point.

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Speaker 1: And since we talked earlier in the year about solar

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Speaker 1: you have finished and a new edition of your book

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Speaker 1: is coming out. What were the biggest updates?

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Speaker 3: So my book is called Solar Power Finance without the Jargon,

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Speaker 3: and the first edition was published in twenty nineteen, and

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Speaker 3: it's meant to explain to people who may be studied

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Speaker 3: stem more humanities what you need to know about finance

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Speaker 3: to work in manewables. Back in twenty nineteen, I think

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Speaker 3: I was relatively pessimistic about batteries. I sort of said,

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Speaker 3: oh yeah, and there will also be batteries. But now

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Speaker 3: it's actually pretty obvious that batteries are going to be

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Speaker 3: a huge part of the solution. And over eighty percent

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Speaker 3: of home solar systems in some European markets have batteries now,

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Speaker 3: so they're really playing a part in moving that daytime

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Speaker 3: power to the evening. Another thing is hydrogen. Now, hydrogen

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Speaker 3: is not good for everything. It's not as good as

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Speaker 3: heat pumps for home heating and it's not a silver bullet,

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Speaker 3: but it's something that is potentially a way of storing

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Speaker 3: power from somewhere to winter. And I think that it's

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Speaker 3: probably going to be something that we use to de

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Speaker 3: carbonize steel and also to run certain power plants when

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Speaker 3: there is no sun and wind for a week and

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Speaker 3: we don't really have many other ideas of what to

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Speaker 3: do about that. So governments are investing very heavily in

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Speaker 3: electoralizer facilities. So hydrogen is going to be a thing,

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Speaker 3: and I hope it works, or I hope if it

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Speaker 3: doesn't work, it's because we had a better way.

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Speaker 1: Now, on a day to day basis, you are looking

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Speaker 1: at the renewable energy sector. You're looking at the clients

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Speaker 1: who are interested in deploying renewable energy. But how much

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Speaker 1: attention do you pay to cop does that really translate

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Speaker 1: into business conversation for me?

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Speaker 3: Now, I think that the business of renewables is actually

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Speaker 3: much too busy to look at these sort of high

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Speaker 3: level conversations which tend to take at least five to

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Speaker 3: ten years to result in something actionable. Of course, that's

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Speaker 3: the kind of timeframe that ultimately, as a species we

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Speaker 3: should be looking at, But as an individual and investor

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Speaker 3: investors are my clients anyway that you're looking for the

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Speaker 3: next market to hit, the sort of projects to invest in,

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Speaker 3: what's going to happen with cannibalization. I'm very focused on

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Speaker 3: trying to forecast price for solo right now, which is

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Speaker 3: really difficult, and all of those are much shorter term.

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Speaker 3: But the cop meetings are important to set a path.

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Speaker 3: They give companies signals like if I build a coal plant,

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Speaker 3: there's a very good chance there'll be a carbon tax

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Speaker 3: on that could plans, So maybe I shouldn't do that

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Speaker 3: because it will be a strand, the dosset and so

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Speaker 3: they have a huge amounts of value.

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Speaker 1: That was a lot of numbers, but I'm glad you

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Speaker 1: could make sense of what is a big, big target.

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Speaker 4: Thank you Jenny, Thank you Akschat. Have a good day everyone.

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