WEBVTT - Introducing Skyline Drive: It's Supposed to Be Fun 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:13.720 Warning. The following episode contains adult language, discussion of miracles, 0:00:13.800 --> 0:00:16.720 arranged marriages, Channing Tatum, and disclosure of at least one 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:36.800 Bible approved stoning sensitive listeners. Take care. So here's the 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:39.120 confession I'm going to make right at the top of 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:43.600 the show. I don't believe in astrology, but astrology keeps 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:48.240 happening to me. Now. Everyone says podcasting is the most 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:51.440 visual medium, So I made you a slide show to 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:56.000 try to explain. This is the real skyline drive. It's 0:00:56.040 --> 0:00:59.440 in Delaware, and growing up when I couldn't sleep, it's 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:01.360 one of the many places I would drive to look 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:05.319 at the stars. This is the moon. It rules our emotions. 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:09.039 This is mercury in retrograde. You know it because it 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:13.800 makes life miserable. This is Rahu and Kathu. They're important 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:17.280 and mischievous nodes in basic astrology. They're prominent in Donald 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:21.920 Trump's horoscope, and they're also responsible for Paris Hilton. This 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:25.080 is me. I was born May first, nineteen seventy nine. 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:27.839 This is the sky at the time I was born. 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:32.080 In Western astrology, it makes me a Taurus. These are 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:37.680 some other Truss polepod I told KOMENI Saddam Hussein, Adolph Hitler, 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:41.559 Barbara Streisan. The fact that we're all truses has made 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:45.000 me doubt astrology for a very long time. These are 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:48.120 my parents. They've been hitched fifty one years and every 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:50.640 morning my dad makes my mom a cup of tea 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:52.800 and then they sit and do the spelling being pencil. 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:56.640 It's adorable, right. These are my parents calling in the 0:01:56.640 --> 0:02:00.760 middle of this recording, and I think goes climbing back, 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:04.440 give me a club. This is India when I was 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:08.160 growing up, where it's like yoga and meditation and turmeric 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:10.800 and astrology. These are words that were part of my 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:13.079 Indian life, but they weren't a part of my going 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:17.320 to school fitting into America one. But now now everyone 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:20.400 has an opinion about it. I'm a Gemini, which I've 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:23.760 heard is bad. I'm a Libra, so I'm indecisive. That's 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:27.600 definitely true. I'm a tourist. I find it starts to 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:29.359 be beautiful. It sucks that we can't see you start 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:31.520 in New York because all the lights. I know a 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:33.240 few people who are kind of into it, and they 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:35.680 like ask, yo, did you see the horoscope today? And 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:38.200 I'm like, nah, bro, not really I'm not worried about 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:40.000 what the horoscope says. I know a lot of people 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:42.440 don't believe in it, but why can't people just believe 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:44.120 in things for fun, like it doesn't have to be 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:46.600 backed up by anything. If you believe in fantasy football, 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.880 why can't you believe in astrology. A few months ago, 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:51.480 my friends and I sit out to make this show 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:54.280 about astrology. We wanted to run around the city and 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:58.760 have some wild adventures and understand why after so many millennia, 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:02.600 people still looked the sky for answers. This is an 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:05.240 astrologer I met in Queens. He promised me, you're going 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:07.519 to dig this show. I think if you do your 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:10.280 own show, it will become a super hit, no doubt 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:14.000 about it. This is a graph of how much I 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:18.560 believed in astrology before our session. Not that much. This 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:20.480 is a graph of how much I started believing thirty 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:25.720 minutes later when something horrible he said came true. That's 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:28.079 why I asked again, from the time he started a 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:31.399 couple of years back. Still now, the situation doesn't look good. 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:36.440 This is me traveling halfway around the world to answer 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:39.640 the biggest question my entire life. This is a shop 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:41.920 in India, where your fortune is waiting for you. It 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:44.080 was written centuries ago and put on a shelf, and 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:46.880 the shopkeepers know which one to pull because it's coated 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:48.920 by your thumb print and the time you're going to 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:53.560 walk through that door. This is me walking through that door. 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:03.280 I'm Muggy's Fatigular from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. This is Skyline Drive, 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:47.359 chapter one. Leave your acts at home. So I figured, 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:50.599 you know, I do need to sown an astrologer. And 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:53.000 there are a bunch of astrologers on the Upper West 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:56.119 Side who have set up these Wait so you're looking 0:04:56.160 --> 0:05:01.039 for an astrologer to sewn. Oh yeah, well I need 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:03.840 to check it off the list. I've got a hundred, 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:06.560 you know already, This reporting and starting off weirder than 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:08.880 I thought. It's ten o'clock on a bright summer day 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:11.760 and I'm standing here with A. J. Jacobs. I am 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:15.839 an author and a journalist and a pisces in addition 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:18.400 to being a pisces or technically on the cusp of 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:21.440 pisces and aries. AJ's a friend and he's one of 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:23.719 my favorite writers. I've come to meet him in this 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:26.159 neighborhood because in two thousand and seven, he wrote a 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:28.760 New York Times bestseller called The Year of Living Biblically. 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:33.120 The book was a phenomenon. It came out in multiple languages, 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:35.960 There were magazine and TV pieces about it. It was 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:38.720 such a big deal that at one point Marlon Waynes 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:41.800 was lined up to play AJ in the Network TV version. 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:46.520 The premise was that I would follow all the rules 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:49.360 of the Bible as literally as possible, so that man 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:52.360 the famous ones like the Ten Commandments and love your neighbor, 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:57.080 but also the lesser known ones like you cannot wear 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:00.560 clothes made of two different kinds of fabrics, so I 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:02.560 had to get rid of all of my polycotton blend. 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:06.039 Giving up polyconton blends is just one of the hardships 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:09.080 Aga endured in the Navy journalism. He also grew a 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:12.200 massive beard, shoved a wild birds so he could steal 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:14.320 its egg and say a prayer on it. And he 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:18.560 followed seven hundred other Biblical rules literally in an attempt 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:21.960 to understand religion. And somewhere along the way he decided 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:24.760 that to fully appreciate the Bible, you actually had to 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:31.400 stone people who committed these abominations, and the abominations include adultery, 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:37.600 breaking the Sabbath, but also astrology, witchcraft, divination, they're all 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:40.720 sort of lumped together. Just the fact that he decided 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.440 to stone someone was a shock to me. I mean, 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:46.400 Aj is one of the nicest people I know, but 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:49.600 that's how committed he was. I didn't want to go 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:52.039 to jail for assault. I just wanted to check it 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:56.039 off my list, you know, stone and astrologer check. So 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:59.800 I walked by this astrologer on the street and just 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:04.800 very subtly dropped the pebble so that it landed on 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:08.839 her shoe, kind of a drive by stoning. And I 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:11.920 was thinking, she's probably not even gonna notice because I 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:16.960 just kept walking. Oh she noticed, and she's like, what's 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:20.160 going on? Why did you do that? And so I 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:22.840 had to tell the truth. Because I was following the Bible. 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:25.640 I thought maybe she'll think it's funny. She did not 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:29.600 think it's funny. She was pissed. She started yelling at me, like, 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:33.160 f you go to f and hell, I was rattled. 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:36.240 Even if you're trying to stone someone in modern day 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:39.680 using pebbles, people don't like it. Well that's a lesson, 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:44.880 that's a takeaway. Rule Number one don't stone an astrologer. 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:48.040 It wasn't the advice I'd come for, but I wrote 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:51.240 it down anyway. But the thing I really wanted to know. 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:54.240 The reason I traveled all the way out here to 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:56.840 meet with AJ was to ask him how to make 0:07:56.880 --> 0:08:00.640 the show, because doing the show in astrology it actually 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:04.000 makes me nervous, like, is there a way to talk 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:07.840 about how accurate of fortune telling parrot could possibly be? 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:10.560 Or is there a way to joke about whether an 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:15.040 astrocurse can make you bald? Because even if the show 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:17.880 makes me look silly, like, I don't want to get 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:21.280 disinvited from a family wedding because I said something that 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:25.480 hurt friends or family or really anyone who puts stock 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:28.960 in these subjects. As I'm trying to uncover threads and 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.080 things like how do you tell a story delicately where 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:34.680 you're not offending people but still engaging with all the 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:39.240 subject I had that exact dilemma when I was writing 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:42.800 The Year of Living Biblically, because I was coming in 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:47.880 as an agnostic writing about religion. My big overall advice 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:52.800 is go in with deep curiosity. Don't go in with 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:57.040 an agenda that you're trying to disprove or prove astrology. 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:01.880 You're just an explorer, So go in like with no 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:05.400 ax leave your axes at home. That I think I 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:11.360 can do. After the break, we talked to an astrologer 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:14.280 who doesn't believe in astrology, take a subway ride to 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:17.959 Queens and hear this from my mom. I felt like 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:42.400 a jusie though. Chapter two, just for funds is the 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:45.480 phone listening? Is that? Are you listening through the phone? Pattern? AI? 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:48.440 The algorithm? That is the pattern? Back in twenty twenty, 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:50.400 one of my friends shot me a text linking to 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:53.640 this video of Channing Tatum. The actor had uploaded it 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:57.600 himself after using an astrology app called the Pattern, But 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:00.920 when Channing's readings became a little too spot on, he 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:03.480 freaked out, are you listening through my phone? And then 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:06.240 just regurgitating the stuff that I'm afraid of? And stuff? 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:09.200 You know what? Pattern? People? You should just call me. 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:13.080 I need answers right now, poor Channing. I don't know 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:15.520 if he ever got his answers, but what I do 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:21.000 know is that astrology is ubiquitous and lucrative. One venture 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:23.280 capital investor told The New York Times that the app 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:27.640 costar this pattern competitor had the potential to be a 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:31.640 twenty four billion dollar business, claiming he could one day 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:35.280 be as big as Spotify. But if astrology is as 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:38.440 big an opportunity as everyone's saying, I'm wondering if my 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:41.360 company should get into the act. After all, it feels 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:44.160 so obvious that I don't know even a nine year 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:47.000 old could see the potential. So I decided to try 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:50.120 the pitch out on my nine year old Ruby. Hey Ny, 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:54.360 why let me do this closet? I brought you to 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:56.760 this closet because I wanted to pitch you on an 0:10:56.760 --> 0:11:02.400 astrology app? Are you ready for it? Why is that? 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:06.319 What do you think about astrology? It's dumb? Oh gosh, Well, 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:08.680 maybe you're not the right person of her. But the 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:11.560 reason I came to you is because you actually have 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:14.640 a bank. You spend only my money. You seem to 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:17.360 hoard all your money, and you keep all of Henry's 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:19.440 money as well, which you charge them a small fee for. 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:22.400 So I thought you might be the savvagest person in 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:23.840 this family. Is it okay if I pitch you an 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:29.280 astrology app? Okay? So here's my case for it. These 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:31.959 aren't your grandmother's horse ghosts. Right, they're talking to you 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:36.240 in this very fresh and fun way. They're up to 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:40.839 the minute with NASA data. They look beautiful, and they 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:43.800 have a chat feature where astrologers will chat with you 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:46.920 live about your birth charts. Right, and then by twenty nineteen, 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:49.280 right like you could see astrology or starting to take 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:52.280 over Bumble, the dating app. They start allowing you to 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:55.600 sort your matches by their birth signs. So like you 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:57.520 could say, like I only want to date toruses or 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:01.160 I only want to date Geminiis or whatever. In astrology 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:05.680 in twenty nineteen was a two point two billion dollar market. 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:12.920 What do you think about that? Mind, I can't tell 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:17.600 whether you're serious or not, but apps made forty million 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:21.000 dollars that year, and in fact, the next year, when 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:25.800 COVID really hit, people started searching for birth charts and astrology. 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:29.040 Both of those searches hit five year peaks on Google. 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:32.640 So it's no wonder that all these venture capital funds 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:36.560 had started investing in astrology apps early and then continue 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:40.720 to invest. And I'm here to ask you to invest 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:44.960 in my astrology app. What do you think? Oh, I'm 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:51.120 spending oh my money on a skateboard, not on you Okay, Well, so, Rube, 0:12:51.280 --> 0:13:00.560 what type of business would you invest in? Bubble? Okay? 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:12.720 Chapter three, Truth and Poetry. When you go out with 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:15.360 a recorder in hand, it's interesting to see who'll talk 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.960 on tape. We found scientists at NASA who actually wouldn't 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:21.760 talk about their interest in astrology to us because they 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:25.000 were afraid of losing their jobs. We found PhDs and 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:27.800 postdocs who are worried that if they talk at all 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:31.079 to our podcasts, even to say that astrology was nonsense, 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:36.439 they would face professional repercussions. I mean, it is insanity 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:40.520 what a lightning rod astrology can be. But luckily we 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:44.800 found Jamie Green. My grandfather showed me a little half 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:46.640 of a peanut that had the German in it, and 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:49.199 he said, that's going to become a plant. And it 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:52.079 was just things like that that got me interested in 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.040 the world, which is the same as being interested in science. 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:59.840 Jamie is a celebrated science writer and I'm Sagittarius, although 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:02.839 you would not know it from looking at anything about 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:07.400 my life. I've got some planet in Capricorn that explains 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:11.439 why I'm not an impulsive adventurer. She has a new 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:14.280 book coming out called The Possibility of Life, and she's 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:16.840 co editor of the annual Best American Science and Nature 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:20.600 writing volumes, And whether it's chatting about her garden or 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:25.240 the way we perceive constellations, her capacity for wonder is 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:30.400 incredible and infectious. But perhaps what I love most about 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:35.080 Jamie was how she clarified that science and astrology don't 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:37.800 actually have to be at odds with one another, that 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:41.920 we don't need science to disprove astrology. Not that she 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:47.280 thinks astrology is a science exactly scientifically, in terms of astronomy, 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:51.640 astrology doesn't hold a lot of meaning because it's all 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:54.200 very human centric. From the point of view of looking 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:57.880 at the stars from Earth, the stars are light years apart. 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:00.880 They have no real relation to each other except in 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:04.920 our minds. But that relationship, the one we make up 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:09.520 while looking up at the stars, that means something, or 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:13.400 it can mean something if you want it to. It's 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:19.040 like a much more eloquent, poetic personal fortune cookie. And 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:21.240 I don't mean that disparagingly. I just think that it's 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:23.720 for you to take from it what you need. And 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:26.560 like we don't think it's anti science to say a 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:31.080 poem is true. I think that's where science gets defensive 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:33.880 is when people say that astrology is a science and 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:38.080 has physical roots in the stars. It's like, oh no 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:40.680 it doesn't, but it's true the way a poem is true. 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:43.800 I can't tell you how much I love that. I mean, 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:48.080 as someone who's a skeptic but also a romantic, this 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:51.200 idea that astrology is true the same way a poem 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:55.360 is true. That feels right to me. And it's something 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:57.760 my friend Pete also said when I talk to him, 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:03.920 Pete Steel is, well, it's complicated. So like even though 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:07.920 I was like a semi successful like musician, I was like, 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:11.560 I need to make money somehow, like right now, Like 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:14.640 what other skills do I happen? Oh? I do astrology. 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:18.240 T is a rock star, like a real rock star. 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:28.400 He used to be in the Walkman, that massive seminal 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:34.080 indie rock band, and yes, his backup career was professional astrology. 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:37.240 When he was younger, he trained with this big famous 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:40.440 grew He was living in his guesthouse and that's where 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:43.080 he learned to read star charts. You would take him 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:45.440 back to him and he would say like, no, it's 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:47.680 the dumbest thing I've ever heard, Like you're wrong, you know, 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:52.720 And then he kind of in very traditional style, like 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:56.360 yell at the apprentice sort of thing, ung Fu master, right, 0:16:56.480 --> 0:17:00.440 a very very karate kid kind of feeling. Right, said, 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:05.280 here's the other thing. Pete doesn't even believe in astrology. 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:08.919 He's a rock star who does astrology for politicians and 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:13.480 World Bank economists and all sorts of interesting folks, but 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.320 he doesn't believe in it. It's this art to me, 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:18.479 and I don't mean that dismissively, like, but that's like 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:20.800 my whole being, Like, that's what I care about. What 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:24.679 he believes really is in a more vivid reality, a 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:28.000 kind of embroidered view of the world. Pete and I 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:30.959 both spent formative years in India, and we have a 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:33.560 certain comfort in the magical. If you read like a 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:36.639 hundred years of Solitude or something like that, world of 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:39.959 like this kind of magical Colombia. You know, it's like 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:43.560 that felt very similar in a lot of ways to 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:53.880 how we were raised. Magical explanations have been woven throughout 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:57.600 my life, like why was my family's little community in 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:01.200 India so well off a century ago? You could say 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:05.120 it's because of luck or global economics. You could say 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:07.960 it's because when the civil war was happening in the US, 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:12.000 England actually needed more sources of cotton to replace all 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:15.400 the cotton that the US had been producing. In my family, 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:17.520 they just happened to be in the right place to 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:21.520 manage mills and plant cotton on their land. Or you 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:23.840 could tell the story in a way that's way, way 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:28.480 more magical, that a great great ancestor had this powerful 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:31.200 vision from a goddess that if he chanted a simple 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:34.680 string of prayers every single night, and he taught all 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:37.960 his children to sing it, and they taught all their children, 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:43.080 his people would be protected for years. And for most 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:50.360 of my life, I only knew that second story Champai 0:18:50.920 --> 0:19:05.000 Masla ma lu Majia maslai ja Jakovambama by oh yeah, 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:11.520 that chapter four mopeds and miniskirts. Arranged marriage has always 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:13.639 been this thing that's hard for me to talk about. 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:16.400 When I first moved to Delaware, kids in my elementary 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:19.439 school had all these questions for me about being Indian, right, 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:22.520 like does your family sleep on a bed of nails? 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:26.120 Can you charm snakes? Just you know, these things they'd 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:29.800 seen on cartoons, And arranged marriage was just another one 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:33.239 of these questions I'd have to field, except this one 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:36.399 actually bothered me more because this time I'd have to 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:39.880 admit that, yes, my parents did have an arranged marriage, 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:43.119 and then I'd have to explain that The thing is, 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:46.440 everyone assumed my mom and dad were like forcibly paired 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:48.359 off when they were nine years old and then sent 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:51.680 away to work and have kids, and that isn't true. 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:55.119 It's like my parents' situation was a little more like 0:19:55.800 --> 0:20:02.040 pride and prejudice. Like, you come from a good family, 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:04.199 your parents want you to marry into another good family, 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:08.720 so they set you up. They make introductions to certain people, 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:11.840 and if you like each other, they kind of fast 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:16.840 track the marriage or they make more introductions. But since 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:20.040 this was already super hard to explain, I just left 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:23.520 out the part of astrology, which also plays a big 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:26.600 role in the whole arranged marriage thing. It was like, 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:32.720 I don't know, just too difficult or embarrassing something. After all, 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:34.720 it's it's a weird thing to have to admit you 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:39.359 only exist because of astrology. But I'll let my mom explain. 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:48.000 Tell me about how your marriage was arranged. Oh that's funny, okay. 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:52.280 Umish's aunt shouted. The cup she came to see Amma, 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:55.320 because she'd heard that you know I was available. I 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:59.040 guess this story starts, of course, with two families dusting 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:01.560 off their kid's horse copes and handing them off to 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:05.560 a trusted astrologer, not some low level quack. So they 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:09.879 matched it, and it matched perfectly. The traditional Indian matching 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:12.520 system is way more complicated than just saying is you 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:15.840 a scorpio? A proper celestial marriage is supposed to be 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:19.159 a union of souls, so the astrologers inspect all the 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:23.520 vagaries of your chart and pressure test everything, like your personalities, 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:27.120 your feelings about class and status, even how a couple's 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:30.199 health will be affected by one another. It's all on 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:33.720 the scale of thirty six points, and any match under 0:21:33.760 --> 0:21:37.959 eighteen points shouldn't be considered. But anything over thirty two, 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:41.479 that's something you want to lock down immediately. My badness 0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:43.840 want to make sure that the man and matted did 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:46.639 not yell let me, She asked the astrologer. You know, 0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:49.960 how is this nature? So the astrologer to Dama that 0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:53.840 Umish was a gently creature, you know, never lost system. 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:57.000 But so this part is one hundred percent crue. I've 0:21:57.119 --> 0:22:00.000 only ever heard my dad yell a handful of times, 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:03.560 and most of that was when our dog Lupine would 0:22:03.600 --> 0:22:06.280 just race out of the house and he would run 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:10.080 after her with this like slice of Kraft singles cheese, 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:12.400 just waving it to try to tempt her back. And 0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:16.800 it always worked because she was super greedy. But one 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:19.000 fault he'd have has never come on time to the 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:22.080 table to have dinner. And we thought it was a 0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:24.560 big joke and that came true. We couldn't believe that 0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:29.440 astrology could be that powerful to tell a quirk like that. 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:32.919 Wasn't there something else with a mother in law? The 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:35.160 mother in law, Yes, they said that I would be 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:37.480 best for a boy that did not have a mother. 0:22:37.840 --> 0:22:40.280 Why is that? I really don't know. They said was 0:22:40.320 --> 0:22:43.280 something to do with the stars. And if I had 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:46.320 a mother in law it wouldn't go ahead. So here 0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:49.160 who had lost his mother when he was under a year. 0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:52.920 I think we just about to hear so it was perfect. 0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:56.879 This is something I think about a lot, how astrology 0:22:56.920 --> 0:23:01.840 accounts for everything. My dad had an aya or a nanny, 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:04.439 but he never had a mother. His life was a 0:23:04.440 --> 0:23:08.800 series of hostels and boarding schools, sometimes in cities hundreds 0:23:08.840 --> 0:23:11.840 of miles from his home. It makes me sad to 0:23:11.880 --> 0:23:16.240 think about, but if his mom had survived, my parents 0:23:16.240 --> 0:23:19.640 would never have been together. Astrology would have made sure 0:23:19.640 --> 0:23:24.000 of that. Anyway, back to my mom. Even though my 0:23:24.080 --> 0:23:26.879 grandmam was working really hard to set her up, my 0:23:26.960 --> 0:23:29.920 mom was not keen to get married. I wasn't ready. 0:23:30.119 --> 0:23:32.560 I was still studying and it was in my final 0:23:32.680 --> 0:23:36.840 year for master's studying linguistics. I didn't want to give 0:23:36.880 --> 0:23:40.439 that up and didn't want to get married that fast. Yeah, 0:23:41.080 --> 0:23:45.800 so I felt like a Josie Cowl. I wasn't happy, 0:23:46.760 --> 0:23:49.639 and things were really moving faster than I ever expected, 0:23:50.119 --> 0:23:52.919 so I'd said, I'm going to foil this. So, just 0:23:53.040 --> 0:23:55.879 to get the picture, a typical woman hoping for a 0:23:55.920 --> 0:23:59.320 match would be waiting, sitting by her parents, dressed in 0:23:59.359 --> 0:24:03.320 a sorry or something traditional like making a big show 0:24:03.560 --> 0:24:06.600 of what a quiet and obedient wife they could be. 0:24:07.480 --> 0:24:12.199 And instead had a miniskirton and I had Lambretta. I 0:24:12.200 --> 0:24:15.439 wrote that and came, oh, and she's also late, Like 0:24:15.880 --> 0:24:18.919 my mom is the most punctual person I know. She 0:24:19.000 --> 0:24:21.240 gets at the airport three hours ahead of time, and 0:24:21.440 --> 0:24:24.680 that since I was a kid, So she's clearly trying 0:24:24.720 --> 0:24:28.439 to tank this thing and my hair, I'd let it 0:24:28.520 --> 0:24:34.000 loose and curly. Wasn't done. But instead, you know, said, oh, 0:24:34.040 --> 0:24:37.200 that's no problem. We love more than girls. What type 0:24:37.200 --> 0:24:39.919 of woman do you think Mama was expecting to present. 0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:44.720 She wanted them to know that I was absolutely sensitive 0:24:45.240 --> 0:24:49.119 and very loving, very kind and gentle with everyone, and 0:24:49.480 --> 0:24:53.920 animal lover. But my Grandmam was also incredibly honest, so 0:24:54.240 --> 0:24:56.480 she was sure to tell my dad's family this. I 0:24:56.520 --> 0:25:01.879 had no interest in cooking anyway. Despite my mom's lack 0:25:01.920 --> 0:25:05.359 of interest in the kitchen and her dramatic attempt to 0:25:05.359 --> 0:25:09.040 topple this whole affair, she somehow still won my dad's 0:25:09.080 --> 0:25:12.359 family over. So I must say, here's the deal. Let 0:25:12.440 --> 0:25:14.720 him write to you. If you don't like him, it's fine. 0:25:15.040 --> 0:25:17.600 He was a charming writer, he was a charming director. 0:25:18.080 --> 0:25:20.280 So they wrote letters back and forth for a year, 0:25:20.920 --> 0:25:23.320 and when they finally met in person, you know, he 0:25:23.400 --> 0:25:26.359 looked so vulnerable that they said, oh, this is great. 0:25:26.480 --> 0:25:30.280 I can handle him. My parents don't have a perfect marriage, 0:25:30.320 --> 0:25:33.720 but there are lots of wonderful bits things that make 0:25:33.800 --> 0:25:37.000