1 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: Warning. The following episode contains adult language, discussion of miracles, 2 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: arranged marriages, Channing Tatum, and disclosure of at least one 3 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: Bible approved stoning sensitive listeners. Take care. So here's the 4 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: confession I'm going to make right at the top of 5 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: the show. I don't believe in astrology, but astrology keeps 6 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 1: happening to me. Now. Everyone says podcasting is the most 7 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: visual medium, So I made you a slide show to 8 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: try to explain. This is the real skyline drive. It's 9 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: in Delaware, and growing up when I couldn't sleep, it's 10 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: one of the many places I would drive to look 11 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 1: at the stars. This is the moon. It rules our emotions. 12 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 1: This is mercury in retrograde. You know it because it 13 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: makes life miserable. This is Rahu and Kathu. They're important 14 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: and mischievous nodes in basic astrology. They're prominent in Donald 15 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: Trump's horoscope, and they're also responsible for Paris Hilton. This 16 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: is me. I was born May first, nineteen seventy nine. 17 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:27,839 Speaker 1: This is the sky at the time I was born. 18 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: In Western astrology, it makes me a Taurus. These are 19 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 1: some other Truss polepod I told KOMENI Saddam Hussein, Adolph Hitler, 20 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:41,559 Speaker 1: Barbara Streisan. The fact that we're all truses has made 21 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: me doubt astrology for a very long time. These are 22 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: my parents. They've been hitched fifty one years and every 23 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: morning my dad makes my mom a cup of tea 24 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: and then they sit and do the spelling being pencil. 25 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: It's adorable, right. These are my parents calling in the 26 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: middle of this recording, and I think goes climbing back, 27 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: give me a club. This is India when I was 28 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: growing up, where it's like yoga and meditation and turmeric 29 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: and astrology. These are words that were part of my 30 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,079 Speaker 1: Indian life, but they weren't a part of my going 31 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: to school fitting into America one. But now now everyone 32 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: has an opinion about it. I'm a Gemini, which I've 33 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: heard is bad. I'm a Libra, so I'm indecisive. That's 34 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: definitely true. I'm a tourist. I find it starts to 35 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 1: be beautiful. It sucks that we can't see you start 36 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: in New York because all the lights. I know a 37 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 1: few people who are kind of into it, and they 38 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: like ask, yo, did you see the horoscope today? And 39 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: I'm like, nah, bro, not really I'm not worried about 40 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: what the horoscope says. I know a lot of people 41 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: don't believe in it, but why can't people just believe 42 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: in things for fun, like it doesn't have to be 43 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: backed up by anything. If you believe in fantasy football, 44 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: why can't you believe in astrology. A few months ago, 45 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: my friends and I sit out to make this show 46 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: about astrology. We wanted to run around the city and 47 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: have some wild adventures and understand why after so many millennia, 48 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: people still looked the sky for answers. This is an 49 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 1: astrologer I met in Queens. He promised me, you're going 50 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:07,519 Speaker 1: to dig this show. I think if you do your 51 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: own show, it will become a super hit, no doubt 52 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: about it. This is a graph of how much I 53 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: believed in astrology before our session. Not that much. This 54 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: is a graph of how much I started believing thirty 55 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: minutes later when something horrible he said came true. That's 56 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,079 Speaker 1: why I asked again, from the time he started a 57 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,399 Speaker 1: couple of years back. Still now, the situation doesn't look good. 58 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: This is me traveling halfway around the world to answer 59 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: the biggest question my entire life. This is a shop 60 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: in India, where your fortune is waiting for you. It 61 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: was written centuries ago and put on a shelf, and 62 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: the shopkeepers know which one to pull because it's coated 63 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: by your thumb print and the time you're going to 64 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: walk through that door. This is me walking through that door. 65 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: I'm Muggy's Fatigular from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. This is Skyline Drive, 66 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:47,359 Speaker 1: chapter one. Leave your acts at home. So I figured, 67 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 1: you know, I do need to sown an astrologer. And 68 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: there are a bunch of astrologers on the Upper West 69 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,119 Speaker 1: Side who have set up these Wait so you're looking 70 00:04:56,160 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 1: for an astrologer to sewn. Oh yeah, well I need 71 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 1: to check it off the list. I've got a hundred, 72 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: you know already, This reporting and starting off weirder than 73 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: I thought. It's ten o'clock on a bright summer day 74 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: and I'm standing here with A. J. Jacobs. I am 75 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: an author and a journalist and a pisces in addition 76 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: to being a pisces or technically on the cusp of 77 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: pisces and aries. AJ's a friend and he's one of 78 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 1: my favorite writers. I've come to meet him in this 79 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 1: neighborhood because in two thousand and seven, he wrote a 80 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: New York Times bestseller called The Year of Living Biblically. 81 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: The book was a phenomenon. It came out in multiple languages, 82 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: There were magazine and TV pieces about it. It was 83 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 1: such a big deal that at one point Marlon Waynes 84 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: was lined up to play AJ in the Network TV version. 85 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: The premise was that I would follow all the rules 86 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 1: of the Bible as literally as possible, so that man 87 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: the famous ones like the Ten Commandments and love your neighbor, 88 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: but also the lesser known ones like you cannot wear 89 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: clothes made of two different kinds of fabrics, so I 90 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: had to get rid of all of my polycotton blend. 91 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 1: Giving up polyconton blends is just one of the hardships 92 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: Aga endured in the Navy journalism. He also grew a 93 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: massive beard, shoved a wild birds so he could steal 94 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: its egg and say a prayer on it. And he 95 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: followed seven hundred other Biblical rules literally in an attempt 96 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: to understand religion. And somewhere along the way he decided 97 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: that to fully appreciate the Bible, you actually had to 98 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: stone people who committed these abominations, and the abominations include adultery, 99 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 1: breaking the Sabbath, but also astrology, witchcraft, divination, they're all 100 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: sort of lumped together. Just the fact that he decided 101 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: to stone someone was a shock to me. I mean, 102 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: Aj is one of the nicest people I know, but 103 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 1: that's how committed he was. I didn't want to go 104 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 1: to jail for assault. I just wanted to check it 105 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 1: off my list, you know, stone and astrologer check. So 106 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: I walked by this astrologer on the street and just 107 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: very subtly dropped the pebble so that it landed on 108 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: her shoe, kind of a drive by stoning. And I 109 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: was thinking, she's probably not even gonna notice because I 110 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: just kept walking. Oh she noticed, and she's like, what's 111 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: going on? Why did you do that? And so I 112 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: had to tell the truth. Because I was following the Bible. 113 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: I thought maybe she'll think it's funny. She did not 114 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: think it's funny. She was pissed. She started yelling at me, like, 115 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: f you go to f and hell, I was rattled. 116 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: Even if you're trying to stone someone in modern day 117 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: using pebbles, people don't like it. Well that's a lesson, 118 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: that's a takeaway. Rule Number one don't stone an astrologer. 119 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: It wasn't the advice I'd come for, but I wrote 120 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: it down anyway. But the thing I really wanted to know. 121 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: The reason I traveled all the way out here to 122 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: meet with AJ was to ask him how to make 123 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: the show, because doing the show in astrology it actually 124 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: makes me nervous, like, is there a way to talk 125 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: about how accurate of fortune telling parrot could possibly be? 126 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: Or is there a way to joke about whether an 127 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: astrocurse can make you bald? Because even if the show 128 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: makes me look silly, like, I don't want to get 129 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: disinvited from a family wedding because I said something that 130 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: hurt friends or family or really anyone who puts stock 131 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: in these subjects. As I'm trying to uncover threads and 132 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: things like how do you tell a story delicately where 133 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,680 Speaker 1: you're not offending people but still engaging with all the 134 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: subject I had that exact dilemma when I was writing 135 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: The Year of Living Biblically, because I was coming in 136 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: as an agnostic writing about religion. My big overall advice 137 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: is go in with deep curiosity. Don't go in with 138 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: an agenda that you're trying to disprove or prove astrology. 139 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: You're just an explorer, So go in like with no 140 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: ax leave your axes at home. That I think I 141 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: can do. After the break, we talked to an astrologer 142 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: who doesn't believe in astrology, take a subway ride to 143 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,959 Speaker 1: Queens and hear this from my mom. I felt like 144 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: a jusie though. Chapter two, just for funds is the 145 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: phone listening? Is that? Are you listening through the phone? Pattern? AI? 146 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 1: The algorithm? That is the pattern? Back in twenty twenty, 147 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: one of my friends shot me a text linking to 148 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: this video of Channing Tatum. The actor had uploaded it 149 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: himself after using an astrology app called the Pattern, But 150 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: when Channing's readings became a little too spot on, he 151 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: freaked out, are you listening through my phone? And then 152 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: just regurgitating the stuff that I'm afraid of? And stuff? 153 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 1: You know what? Pattern? People? You should just call me. 154 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 1: I need answers right now, poor Channing. I don't know 155 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: if he ever got his answers, but what I do 156 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: know is that astrology is ubiquitous and lucrative. One venture 157 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: capital investor told The New York Times that the app 158 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: costar this pattern competitor had the potential to be a 159 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: twenty four billion dollar business, claiming he could one day 160 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: be as big as Spotify. But if astrology is as 161 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 1: big an opportunity as everyone's saying, I'm wondering if my 162 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: company should get into the act. After all, it feels 163 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: so obvious that I don't know even a nine year 164 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: old could see the potential. So I decided to try 165 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: the pitch out on my nine year old Ruby. Hey Ny, 166 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: why let me do this closet? I brought you to 167 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: this closet because I wanted to pitch you on an 168 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: astrology app? Are you ready for it? Why is that? 169 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:06,319 Speaker 1: What do you think about astrology? It's dumb? Oh gosh, Well, 170 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: maybe you're not the right person of her. But the 171 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: reason I came to you is because you actually have 172 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: a bank. You spend only my money. You seem to 173 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: hoard all your money, and you keep all of Henry's 174 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 1: money as well, which you charge them a small fee for. 175 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: So I thought you might be the savvagest person in 176 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: this family. Is it okay if I pitch you an 177 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: astrology app? Okay? So here's my case for it. These 178 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,959 Speaker 1: aren't your grandmother's horse ghosts. Right, they're talking to you 179 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: in this very fresh and fun way. They're up to 180 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:40,839 Speaker 1: the minute with NASA data. They look beautiful, and they 181 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: have a chat feature where astrologers will chat with you 182 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: live about your birth charts. Right, and then by twenty nineteen, 183 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: right like you could see astrology or starting to take 184 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: over Bumble, the dating app. They start allowing you to 185 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: sort your matches by their birth signs. So like you 186 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: could say, like I only want to date toruses or 187 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: I only want to date Geminiis or whatever. In astrology 188 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen was a two point two billion dollar market. 189 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: What do you think about that? Mind, I can't tell 190 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: whether you're serious or not, but apps made forty million 191 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: dollars that year, and in fact, the next year, when 192 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: COVID really hit, people started searching for birth charts and astrology. 193 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: Both of those searches hit five year peaks on Google. 194 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: So it's no wonder that all these venture capital funds 195 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 1: had started investing in astrology apps early and then continue 196 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: to invest. And I'm here to ask you to invest 197 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: in my astrology app. What do you think? Oh, I'm 198 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: spending oh my money on a skateboard, not on you Okay, Well, so, Rube, 199 00:12:51,280 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 1: what type of business would you invest in? Bubble? Okay? 200 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: Chapter three, Truth and Poetry. When you go out with 201 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: a recorder in hand, it's interesting to see who'll talk 202 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 1: on tape. We found scientists at NASA who actually wouldn't 203 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: talk about their interest in astrology to us because they 204 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: were afraid of losing their jobs. We found PhDs and 205 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: postdocs who are worried that if they talk at all 206 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:31,079 Speaker 1: to our podcasts, even to say that astrology was nonsense, 207 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:36,439 Speaker 1: they would face professional repercussions. I mean, it is insanity 208 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: what a lightning rod astrology can be. But luckily we 209 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: found Jamie Green. My grandfather showed me a little half 210 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: of a peanut that had the German in it, and 211 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,199 Speaker 1: he said, that's going to become a plant. And it 212 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,079 Speaker 1: was just things like that that got me interested in 213 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: the world, which is the same as being interested in science. 214 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: Jamie is a celebrated science writer and I'm Sagittarius, although 215 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,839 Speaker 1: you would not know it from looking at anything about 216 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: my life. I've got some planet in Capricorn that explains 217 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 1: why I'm not an impulsive adventurer. She has a new 218 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: book coming out called The Possibility of Life, and she's 219 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: co editor of the annual Best American Science and Nature 220 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: writing volumes, And whether it's chatting about her garden or 221 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: the way we perceive constellations, her capacity for wonder is 222 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: incredible and infectious. But perhaps what I love most about 223 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: Jamie was how she clarified that science and astrology don't 224 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: actually have to be at odds with one another, that 225 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: we don't need science to disprove astrology. Not that she 226 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: thinks astrology is a science exactly scientifically, in terms of astronomy, 227 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: astrology doesn't hold a lot of meaning because it's all 228 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: very human centric. From the point of view of looking 229 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 1: at the stars from Earth, the stars are light years apart. 230 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: They have no real relation to each other except in 231 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: our minds. But that relationship, the one we make up 232 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: while looking up at the stars, that means something, or 233 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: it can mean something if you want it to. It's 234 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: like a much more eloquent, poetic personal fortune cookie. And 235 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: I don't mean that disparagingly. I just think that it's 236 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: for you to take from it what you need. And 237 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: like we don't think it's anti science to say a 238 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: poem is true. I think that's where science gets defensive 239 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: is when people say that astrology is a science and 240 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: has physical roots in the stars. It's like, oh no 241 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: it doesn't, but it's true the way a poem is true. 242 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: I can't tell you how much I love that. I mean, 243 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: as someone who's a skeptic but also a romantic, this 244 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: idea that astrology is true the same way a poem 245 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: is true. That feels right to me. And it's something 246 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: my friend Pete also said when I talk to him, 247 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: Pete Steel is, well, it's complicated. So like even though 248 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: I was like a semi successful like musician, I was like, 249 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: I need to make money somehow, like right now, Like 250 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: what other skills do I happen? Oh? I do astrology. 251 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: T is a rock star, like a real rock star. 252 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: He used to be in the Walkman, that massive seminal 253 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: indie rock band, and yes, his backup career was professional astrology. 254 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: When he was younger, he trained with this big famous 255 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: grew He was living in his guesthouse and that's where 256 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: he learned to read star charts. You would take him 257 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: back to him and he would say like, no, it's 258 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: the dumbest thing I've ever heard, Like you're wrong, you know, 259 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: And then he kind of in very traditional style, like 260 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: yell at the apprentice sort of thing, ung Fu master, right, 261 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: a very very karate kid kind of feeling. Right, said, 262 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: here's the other thing. Pete doesn't even believe in astrology. 263 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 1: He's a rock star who does astrology for politicians and 264 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 1: World Bank economists and all sorts of interesting folks, but 265 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: he doesn't believe in it. It's this art to me, 266 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:18,479 Speaker 1: and I don't mean that dismissively, like, but that's like 267 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: my whole being, Like, that's what I care about. What 268 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,679 Speaker 1: he believes really is in a more vivid reality, a 269 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: kind of embroidered view of the world. Pete and I 270 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:30,959 Speaker 1: both spent formative years in India, and we have a 271 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: certain comfort in the magical. If you read like a 272 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 1: hundred years of Solitude or something like that, world of 273 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,959 Speaker 1: like this kind of magical Colombia. You know, it's like 274 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: that felt very similar in a lot of ways to 275 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 1: how we were raised. Magical explanations have been woven throughout 276 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: my life, like why was my family's little community in 277 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 1: India so well off a century ago? You could say 278 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:05,120 Speaker 1: it's because of luck or global economics. You could say 279 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 1: it's because when the civil war was happening in the US, 280 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: England actually needed more sources of cotton to replace all 281 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,400 Speaker 1: the cotton that the US had been producing. In my family, 282 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: they just happened to be in the right place to 283 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: manage mills and plant cotton on their land. Or you 284 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: could tell the story in a way that's way, way 285 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: more magical, that a great great ancestor had this powerful 286 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 1: vision from a goddess that if he chanted a simple 287 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: string of prayers every single night, and he taught all 288 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: his children to sing it, and they taught all their children, 289 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: his people would be protected for years. And for most 290 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 1: of my life, I only knew that second story Champai 291 00:18:50,920 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: Masla ma lu Majia maslai ja Jakovambama by oh yeah, 292 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: that chapter four mopeds and miniskirts. Arranged marriage has always 293 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 1: been this thing that's hard for me to talk about. 294 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,400 Speaker 1: When I first moved to Delaware, kids in my elementary 295 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 1: school had all these questions for me about being Indian, right, 296 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: like does your family sleep on a bed of nails? 297 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 1: Can you charm snakes? Just you know, these things they'd 298 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: seen on cartoons, And arranged marriage was just another one 299 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,239 Speaker 1: of these questions I'd have to field, except this one 300 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 1: actually bothered me more because this time I'd have to 301 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,880 Speaker 1: admit that, yes, my parents did have an arranged marriage, 302 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 1: and then I'd have to explain that The thing is, 303 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 1: everyone assumed my mom and dad were like forcibly paired 304 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 1: off when they were nine years old and then sent 305 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 1: away to work and have kids, and that isn't true. 306 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 1: It's like my parents' situation was a little more like 307 00:19:55,800 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 1: pride and prejudice. Like, you come from a good family, 308 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,199 Speaker 1: your parents want you to marry into another good family, 309 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: so they set you up. They make introductions to certain people, 310 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: and if you like each other, they kind of fast 311 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: track the marriage or they make more introductions. But since 312 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: this was already super hard to explain, I just left 313 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: out the part of astrology, which also plays a big 314 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: role in the whole arranged marriage thing. It was like, 315 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: I don't know, just too difficult or embarrassing something. After all, 316 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: it's it's a weird thing to have to admit you 317 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: only exist because of astrology. But I'll let my mom explain. 318 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: Tell me about how your marriage was arranged. Oh that's funny, okay. 319 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: Umish's aunt shouted. The cup she came to see Amma, 320 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: because she'd heard that you know I was available. I 321 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: guess this story starts, of course, with two families dusting 322 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: off their kid's horse copes and handing them off to 323 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: a trusted astrologer, not some low level quack. So they 324 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 1: matched it, and it matched perfectly. The traditional Indian matching 325 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: system is way more complicated than just saying is you 326 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: a scorpio? A proper celestial marriage is supposed to be 327 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 1: a union of souls, so the astrologers inspect all the 328 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: vagaries of your chart and pressure test everything, like your personalities, 329 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 1: your feelings about class and status, even how a couple's 330 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,199 Speaker 1: health will be affected by one another. It's all on 331 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: the scale of thirty six points, and any match under 332 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,959 Speaker 1: eighteen points shouldn't be considered. But anything over thirty two, 333 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,479 Speaker 1: that's something you want to lock down immediately. My badness 334 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: want to make sure that the man and matted did 335 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 1: not yell let me, She asked the astrologer. You know, 336 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: how is this nature? So the astrologer to Dama that 337 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: Umish was a gently creature, you know, never lost system. 338 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 1: But so this part is one hundred percent crue. I've 339 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: only ever heard my dad yell a handful of times, 340 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: and most of that was when our dog Lupine would 341 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: just race out of the house and he would run 342 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: after her with this like slice of Kraft singles cheese, 343 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 1: just waving it to try to tempt her back. And 344 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: it always worked because she was super greedy. But one 345 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: fault he'd have has never come on time to the 346 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: table to have dinner. And we thought it was a 347 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: big joke and that came true. We couldn't believe that 348 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 1: astrology could be that powerful to tell a quirk like that. 349 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 1: Wasn't there something else with a mother in law? The 350 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 1: mother in law, Yes, they said that I would be 351 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: best for a boy that did not have a mother. 352 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: Why is that? I really don't know. They said was 353 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: something to do with the stars. And if I had 354 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: a mother in law it wouldn't go ahead. So here 355 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 1: who had lost his mother when he was under a year. 356 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 1: I think we just about to hear so it was perfect. 357 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,879 Speaker 1: This is something I think about a lot, how astrology 358 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: accounts for everything. My dad had an aya or a nanny, 359 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,439 Speaker 1: but he never had a mother. His life was a 360 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: series of hostels and boarding schools, sometimes in cities hundreds 361 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: of miles from his home. It makes me sad to 362 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: think about, but if his mom had survived, my parents 363 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 1: would never have been together. Astrology would have made sure 364 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: of that. Anyway, back to my mom. Even though my 365 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 1: grandmam was working really hard to set her up, my 366 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 1: mom was not keen to get married. I wasn't ready. 367 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: I was still studying and it was in my final 368 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: year for master's studying linguistics. I didn't want to give 369 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,439 Speaker 1: that up and didn't want to get married that fast. Yeah, 370 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: so I felt like a Josie Cowl. I wasn't happy, 371 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,639 Speaker 1: and things were really moving faster than I ever expected, 372 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,919 Speaker 1: so I'd said, I'm going to foil this. So, just 373 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 1: to get the picture, a typical woman hoping for a 374 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: match would be waiting, sitting by her parents, dressed in 375 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: a sorry or something traditional like making a big show 376 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: of what a quiet and obedient wife they could be. 377 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:12,199 Speaker 1: And instead had a miniskirton and I had Lambretta. I 378 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,439 Speaker 1: wrote that and came, oh, and she's also late, Like 379 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,919 Speaker 1: my mom is the most punctual person I know. She 380 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: gets at the airport three hours ahead of time, and 381 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 1: that since I was a kid, So she's clearly trying 382 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,439 Speaker 1: to tank this thing and my hair, I'd let it 383 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: loose and curly. Wasn't done. But instead, you know, said, oh, 384 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 1: that's no problem. We love more than girls. What type 385 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,919 Speaker 1: of woman do you think Mama was expecting to present. 386 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: She wanted them to know that I was absolutely sensitive 387 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 1: and very loving, very kind and gentle with everyone, and 388 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 1: animal lover. But my Grandmam was also incredibly honest, so 389 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: she was sure to tell my dad's family this. I 390 00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 1: had no interest in cooking anyway. Despite my mom's lack 391 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 1: of interest in the kitchen and her dramatic attempt to 392 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: topple this whole affair, she somehow still won my dad's 393 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: family over. So I must say, here's the deal. Let 394 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: him write to you. If you don't like him, it's fine. 395 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: He was a charming writer, he was a charming director. 396 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: So they wrote letters back and forth for a year, 397 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: and when they finally met in person, you know, he 398 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 1: looked so vulnerable that they said, oh, this is great. 399 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: I can handle him. My parents don't have a perfect marriage, 400 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: but there are lots of wonderful bits things that make 401 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: me think those thirty two points meet in something like 402 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: once when they were young, they visited Paris, and they 403 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: went to dinner at this fancy restaurant with a ballroom, 404 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: and an orchestra started playing, and no one was dancing crickets. 405 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: So my dad just whisked my mom onto the dance 406 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: floor and then slowly everyone in the place joins in. 407 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: And when my parents went back to their table, the 408 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 1: band leader had actually sent them this gorgeous spottle of 409 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: brandy to say thank you for livening the place up 410 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 1: and forgetting everyone dancing. I mean, if astrology can promise 411 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 1: you those sorts of scenes, it's like who wouldn't listen. 412 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: Of course, astrology has done damage in the family too. 413 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: Here's my mom telling me about an arranged marriage gone wrong. 414 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 1: My cousin Nana. The girl that they looked for the 415 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: horoscope matched with him. Who's your cousin, Nana Nana from 416 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: Manglo Nalia, So there was a danger of his brother 417 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 1: dying if the girl married Nana. The astrologers have predicted 418 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: that if the couple went through with the marriage, even 419 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: though their horoscopes matched, it could lead to Nanu's brother's death. 420 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: I mean, who wants that on their hands, even if 421 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 1: it's putting your chances for love at risk. So to 422 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: this day he stood a bachelor. Really, Oh well, what 423 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:57,159 Speaker 1: do you think about that? It's a shame. Yeah, they 424 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 1: could have found other girls. He just was dejected. He said, 425 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: normal goods, normal horoscopes sisted about you. That's heartbreaking, it 426 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: really is. Yeah. After chatting with my mom, two things 427 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 1: occurred to me. First, the chasm between the way Americans 428 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:28,360 Speaker 1: and Indians use astrology. That only felt wider, like no 429 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 1: app was going to tell you to quit your NBA, 430 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 1: to marry some guy in America, or to break it 431 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: off with this girl because it could bring bad luck 432 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: or death to another family member, like the starkness of 433 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,959 Speaker 1: the way Indian astrology can be used to control lives. 434 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 1: It felt so dark, but also pretty intriguing, like it 435 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: only made me want to dig in more. And the 436 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,400 Speaker 1: second thing I remembered is this piece of advice AJ 437 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: gave me about really embracing the show. I think you 438 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: gotta go all in, So you got to hire an 439 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: astrologer to help you with the show. I figure out 440 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,199 Speaker 1: when you should start, when should the air date be, 441 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 1: Who should you hire to help you? Should it be 442 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,199 Speaker 1: a Virgo or a Capricorn? Like, go for it, because 443 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: that's one way to test it. It's to see does 444 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: it work for you. So I decided to find an 445 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 1: Indian astrologer and solve both problems. I could lean into 446 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: my Indian side and also have some fun with it. 447 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: But what I didn't know was that that visit was 448 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: going to change my life. Chapter five we go to Queens. 449 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: On April ninth, I headed to Kleeans to meet an astrologer. 450 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: He's someone my friend and showrunner for the show, Mary 451 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: recommended that I reached out to, and coincidentally, he happened 452 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: to be an astrologer that my cousin Aditya had used. Hey, 453 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: ad is another rational type. He's kind of this white 454 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: shoe lawyer, masters from Cambridge, and he used this astrologer 455 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: in a difficult time and apparently the predictions had proven accurate. 456 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: So other's actually wanted to see him again. So I 457 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: took a train to Jackson Heights to meet doctor Rocketsh. 458 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: Kumar and we entered his white wood frame office. From 459 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: the outside, it's kind of nondescripts like this row house, 460 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: but when you opened the door, you immediately sensed these 461 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: temple like vibes. So I took off my shoes at 462 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: the entrance, walked through a fog of sweet sandalwood, and 463 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 1: there were these massive photos of his guru on the wall. 464 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: And then I turned into this tiny room with a desk, 465 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: and it had a giant stack of books on it 466 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: with a little black laptop on top. Looking around, I 467 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: realize how fun this is. I'm here on this field 468 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 1: trip with my cousin, this astrology adventure, and I'm so 469 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: ready to hear some ridiculous things and enjoy this experience. 470 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: Doctor Kamar very sweetly welcomes me in. He closes his emails, 471 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: and then, using the information I'd sent him a few 472 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: days before, he pulls up my chart and turns on 473 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: his recorder. Songs. Looking at it choked me first. Nineteen 474 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: seventy nine, go before in the afternoon in summer New Jersie. 475 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 1: You're born on a Tuesday, You'll have the sign cancer rising. 476 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: I've got to say I was a little surprised by 477 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 1: how quickly doctor Kamar dives in. It seems like he's 478 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: just staring at a bunch of numbers on his screen, 479 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: but he's interpreting them, kind of like Neo from the Matrix. 480 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: And I'm curious to hear my reading. But what I 481 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 1: really want to do, is asked doctor Khmar about the show. 482 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: I thought it'd be fun if there were these auspicious 483 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: dates for my podcast, or if you could protect something 484 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: about how many people would listen. But first he had 485 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: some questions for me. So how's word been since January 486 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: twenty twenty. That's when I decided to quit my job. Okay, 487 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 1: so either you would have quit your job or a 488 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: job would have quit you one of the things. Because 489 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: the time was such, because it impacts you. It's so ironic. 490 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 1: You come here today, who days from now? You plue 491 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: thirteenth onwards. Thereafter a new chapter of your life begins, 492 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: another beginning of your life, which will be very good. 493 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: This is what I came for. I write down April 494 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: thirteenth in my notebook, and I circle it big. Four 495 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: days from now. That's the date I'm going to get 496 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: started on my show. Doctor Kahmar continues with more work 497 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: related things. He says foreign travel is in the cards, 498 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: which is super exciting, and that I should wear an 499 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: emerald to improve my communication skills, which is funny. I 500 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: make a note to do an episode on gems and 501 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: Vedic astrology. Down the line. But the best part is 502 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 1: that doctor Kamar seems to think this whole podcast will 503 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: go really well. So it's very profound, So you'll make 504 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: it big in life, You'll be very successful in everything, 505 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 1: because your planets show that. I'm so excited about all 506 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: this tape, getting a start date for the show, the 507 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 1: talk of gems, this prediction that everything might go well, 508 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: that I'm caught off guard by doctor Kamar's next question, 509 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: which comes out of nowhere, get to be something about 510 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: your father, like what he did for work, or it 511 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: still does. He's a chemical engineer. Okay, he's retired. He's 512 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 1: ill right now listening back, I don't know why I 513 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: mentioned my dad was ill. Doctor Kamara hadn't asked, and 514 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 1: maybe it's because I was trying to participate fully, like 515 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 1: I thought I should let him know. Years ago my 516 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: dad was diagnosed with cancer, but he actually sailed through 517 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 1: that treatment and he's been cancer free for a while now. 518 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: But recently he broke a rib reaching for something, which 519 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: was odd, and then he also had the slight boost 520 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: and some liver counts which his doctor told him not 521 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: to worry about. Because that's why I asked again from 522 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 1: the time he started a couple of years back. Still, 523 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: now the situation doesn't look good for father. There is 524 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: a risk to father. This thing about my dad. It 525 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: was a throwaway line in the middle of an hour 526 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,959 Speaker 1: and a half interview. I don't even know how closely 527 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: I was listening. By the time we hit stop on 528 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: the recorder, I was thrilled. I had over an hour 529 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: of material and I was cutting tape my head as 530 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 1: I was asking questions, and I don't know, I felt good. 531 00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: I thanked doctor Khmar for his time, and I let 532 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: him run off to feed his mother lunch, which he 533 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 1: does every day, and my cousin and I walked off 534 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 1: to get fresh dosas and Italy's that one of the 535 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: many canteens that dot this area of Jackson Heights. I 536 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: try to thank you, and then twenty minutes into chatting 537 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,239 Speaker 1: and laughing and debating what's real about astrology and what 538 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: isn't and how can you even tell right? I received 539 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: this email from my dad. It read we just received 540 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: the results of the MRCP testing. Unfortunately, the news is 541 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 1: not as good as it could be. We'll talk to 542 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 1: doctor Thomas and doctor Shakur and let you know as 543 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: soon as we can study result diffuse metastatic disease throughout 544 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: the liver and bones from unknown primary. The cancer had 545 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 1: metastasized through my dad's liver and bones. I don't know 546 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: what it means, but I've forgotten about astrology. I don't 547 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,800 Speaker 1: care about emeralds or whether any of this feels embarrassing anymore. 548 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:16,719 Speaker 1: My stomach drops. I can't finish my chie I don't 549 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: know what to write, so I just tap out. I'm 550 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: so sorry, Dad. I'll call you back in a bit. 551 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 1: And all I'm thinking now is how fast can I 552 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 1: get to Atlanta next week? On Skyline Drive, we take 553 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 1: a train to Bay Ridge, meet a therapist who secretly 554 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: uses astrology behind your clients backs, and hang out with 555 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: a seventy four year old who just wants to know 556 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 1: am I ever going to have sex with somebody again? 557 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:14,280 Speaker 1: And we use astrology to get her an answer. Thank 558 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: you so much for listening. I have so many people 559 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 1: to thank. Skyline Drive is a production of Kaleidoscope and 560 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 1: iHeart Podcast. The show is hosted and written by me 561 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,760 Speaker 1: Mangish Hatikular With a ton of help, like so much 562 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,239 Speaker 1: help from these wonderful people. Mary Philip Sandy is our 563 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 1: cat loving supervising producer Mitra Bunshah. He produced this whole 564 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,720 Speaker 1: thing despite my constantly getting in the way. Mark Ltto 565 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 1: is our incredible story editor who even suffered a trip 566 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,440 Speaker 1: to India with me. This episode was mixed by my 567 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:49,760 Speaker 1: pal at Soundboard with scoring from Botany. The song Yola 568 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 1: Mango is my absolute favorite. The insane music in between 569 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 1: is courtesy of Azadi Records, Himanshu Suri and Peter Matthew Bauer. 570 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: If you want to hear or we made you a mixtape, 571 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: just check out the show notes. Additional production and research 572 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:10,360 Speaker 1: support from the wonderful Anna Rubinova through Chivirao Lucas, Riley 573 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:15,920 Speaker 1: Bethan Macaluzo, Aditya bus Throur, and my wonderful wife Lizzie Jacobs. 574 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 1: There's also my superstar Aunt Summon, the Woman Buckshee and 575 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: my cousin Arguin Buckshee, who helped me out of a 576 00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,920 Speaker 1: giant pinch abroad. The show is executive produced from I 577 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 1: harp On, my good pals Nicky Etour, and Katrina Norvelle. 578 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 1: This show would not have happened without the support of 579 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,280 Speaker 1: my friends at Kaleidoscope. Starting with my good pal Oswolsian, 580 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,359 Speaker 1: who believed in this show. He's also my partner at Kaleidoscope. 581 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 1: Also Kate Osbourne for her spot on notes, cost Us 582 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 1: Linos for his encouragement, and Fahini Shory for her delightful suggestions. 583 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: I also want to give a little special thanks to 584 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 1: all the kiddos who bore with us through this production, 585 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 1: Henry Ruby, Julian Grendel, Lou and little Enzo Etour. All 586 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 1: my friends Heart including Bob Connall will Carry, Nathan Jason, 587 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 1: Jerry my New York and Atlanta Cruz. There are too 588 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:10,760 Speaker 1: many to name. Also Shanta and Sarab, my family in India, 589 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,319 Speaker 1: my family in the States, my friend Noel Brown who 590 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 1: read this episode's warning check out his shows ridiculous history 591 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,359 Speaker 1: and stuff they don't want you to know. And just 592 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: one last thank you to my Amah and my dad 593 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 1: is Lolita and Amir Tatigudur, who I thank my lucky 594 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 1: stars for Thank you so much for listening. Dumdum dimdimdumdumdimdumdum 595 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: dim DoD