Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on. These are our stories, done done.
Speaker 1: Hello, everybody, Welcome to That's Messed Up n SVU podcast.
Speaker 3: I'm Kara Klang.
Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Lisa Trigger and this is a sv podcast.
Speaker 2: We talk about an episode of SVU, the true crime
Speaker 2: it's based on. We talked to someone from the episode
Speaker 2: today is a monumental moment in my life. So stay
Speaker 2: tuned for everything. Great episodes. Yeah, whatever, let's talk Cara,
Speaker 2: what's up? Even though I was in Chicago last week,
Speaker 2: I never I didn't. I didn't get to talk about that.
Speaker 2: Though I'm a white Sox fan. I went to a
Speaker 2: Cubs game.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 2: I had the time of my life. I've never sat
Speaker 2: this close to athletes before. We were second row behind
Speaker 2: the Cubs dugout.
Speaker 3: How'd you get these tickets?
Speaker 2: I opened for my friend Jared, and he's treating me
Speaker 2: like a queen. He's buying tickets. We went to the
Speaker 2: Soho cool. He's taking me out for drinks and dinners.
Speaker 2: It's you know, it's great. I don't even have to
Speaker 2: put out. I just well because for my life, you know,
Speaker 2: for doing stand up. I mean it's been like twelve years.
Speaker 2: I do go on the tour on tour by myself,
Speaker 2: and it has been an ego. I don't know, it's
Speaker 2: been wild to like host for someone because I do
Speaker 2: have to do announcements at the end of the show,
Speaker 2: and it's truly humiliating. And my friend was like taunting
Speaker 2: me and texting me being like, keep at it, you
Speaker 2: don't quit. It seems like you got talent. Don't forget
Speaker 2: to mention the comment cards so legit. After like decades
Speaker 2: I've headlined this, but at the end of the show,
Speaker 2: I have to be like, exit through the side door,
Speaker 2: please wait for your server.
Speaker 3: And it is hard. No matter how.
Speaker 2: Confident and chill you are in who you are as
Speaker 2: a performer. There is a moment where I'm like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, this is humiliating. But then I'm in the
Speaker 2: so hoo cool drinking opinion Colada and I go, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's worth the announcements.
Speaker 3: I'll say whatever you want me to fucking say.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like it's worth the announcements.
Speaker 2: I'm totally fine with it. Let's go to the beach.
Speaker 2: So I think he feels guilty. And so we got
Speaker 2: to sit behind the dugout and he looked at me.
Speaker 2: He goes, I've never seen you more in your element.
Speaker 2: I didn't realize this is where you belong at a
Speaker 2: baseball game. I go, I know this is where I shine.
Speaker 3: I wow, Oh, it.
Speaker 2: Was so cool to see them so close. I love
Speaker 2: baseball bodies. I think they're the hottest of all the
Speaker 2: sports bodies. I loved seeing them so close hit the ball.
Speaker 2: I mean, I loved the singing. I loved it was honestly,
Speaker 2: like so fun. It was so fun. We're and but
Speaker 2: we're going to go to another We're gonna go to
Speaker 2: the cub Socks game on Sunday too. You know I
Speaker 2: said I was in Chicago. I'm just trying to protect
Speaker 2: I don't know what you guys. You know, we're we're
Speaker 2: we're recording. I'm in Chicago right now, but I'm pretending us.
Speaker 1: I listened to another podcast where they used to talk
Speaker 1: about being in the time machine. They'd be like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're in the time machine right now because we are listen.
Speaker 1: We're not gonna lie like we recorded this a little
Speaker 1: bit earlier. We've got a lot of things going on
Speaker 1: in our lives, so this is not we're not recording
Speaker 1: this like the day of that.
Speaker 3: It's coming to your ears.
Speaker 1: So Lisa is going to another baseball game, and it
Speaker 1: sounds like it's gonna be awesome. I love baseball games.
Speaker 1: I was thinking about what you said about baseball players
Speaker 1: having the best bodies. Tell me what my favorite bodies
Speaker 1: right in your in your opinion? Yeah, I like like
Speaker 1: a thick like thick, thought like thick, maybe thick like
Speaker 1: in shape, but thick.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Interesting.
Speaker 1: Interesting, I was because I always think of baseball guys
Speaker 1: as having like a gut for some reason.
Speaker 3: But that's probably my stereotype.
Speaker 1: Well they get older, yeah, but yeah, I guess I'm
Speaker 1: thinking of like Babe Ruth. I don't know, but I
Speaker 1: like I was gonna say, and I don't even go
Speaker 1: to these kind of games, but I like soccer players bodies.
Speaker 1: I think they've got like they always have, like abs
Speaker 1: and like good little butts and then big ass calves
Speaker 1: and shit from kicking that ball around. Yeah, No, soccer's
Speaker 1: are not for I love the baseball I love the
Speaker 1: kind of laziness to it too, where it's like I'm
Speaker 1: gonna stand in this field and I'll hit two balls.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I like that.
Speaker 1: I also like baseball because I feel and you'll probably
Speaker 1: tell me, fuck you, I hate this, you do this,
Speaker 1: But I like that. When I go to a baseball game,
Speaker 1: I never sit in good seats like what you were at.
Speaker 1: I'm always like nosebleed. The players look like ants to me.
Speaker 1: I could just kind of talk and then when there's
Speaker 1: a big when there's a big hit, I can go ooh,
Speaker 1: you know, but like most of the time, I can
Speaker 1: just chat with my friends and drink beer and have fun.
Speaker 2: No, And I told Jerry, I was like, hey, I'm
Speaker 2: we're going to talk, but if you want to like
Speaker 2: focus and you want me to stop talking.
Speaker 1: Let me know.
Speaker 3: And he goes, no, that's the whole point of being
Speaker 3: out a baseball Yeah, okay, good. I thought you were
Speaker 3: going to do.
Speaker 1: Like I don't talk at sports games because obviously at
Speaker 1: like tennis you don't talk or like, you know, there's
Speaker 1: certain things you don't talk, but baseball. But one time
Speaker 1: I was at a baseball game with someone I didn't
Speaker 1: really want to be with, and I did turn to
Speaker 1: him and go.
Speaker 2: You need to stop talking. I'm going to focus on
Speaker 2: the game. But you know, it happens. But no, he
Speaker 2: called it was like an outdoor picnic whatever. It was
Speaker 2: just like a fantastic day. And like one of them,
Speaker 2: like I talked to all the beer guys, like you
Speaker 2: forget Chicago is nice, Like people are really nice. So
Speaker 2: like Dorothy, like one of the workers was like, did
Speaker 2: you bring sunblock? The seats get really hot here I go.
Speaker 2: You know what, Dorothy, I did bring some bo Thank
Speaker 2: you so much, and she goes, don't bother the players.
Speaker 2: Maybe they'll wave at you, but like, you know, let
Speaker 2: them concentrate. And I'm like, I'm just here to look.
Speaker 2: I don't need to bother them.
Speaker 3: I love the beer.
Speaker 2: I mean my ex boyfriend played like baseball in college.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: It is something that it brings fun out of me.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, no, I do.
Speaker 1: I do love watching baseball game and I would I
Speaker 1: really would love when you come back, let's go to
Speaker 1: a Dodgers game.
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, yeah, I've gone everywhere. I don't I just
Speaker 2: love being in the sun. But so we're hanging out
Speaker 2: at one of my favorite bars in Chicago, Old Town Alehouse.
Speaker 3: Have you been with the.
Speaker 1: Paintings across right by the condo. Yes, yeah, well you
Speaker 1: don't have to tell everyone. I'm sorry, Gone, it's fine.
Speaker 1: Everybody will find Lisa are threatening? Are threatening listeners that
Speaker 1: are coming to kill you?
Speaker 3: No, everyone's really shy.
Speaker 2: Like someone will come to me after soul cycle and
Speaker 2: be like I listened to the pot and then I'm
Speaker 2: like down to talk and they run away from me
Speaker 2: and I'm.
Speaker 3: Like all right, like a peace.
Speaker 2: But I my god, there was the most annoying dumb
Speaker 2: bitch at the bar yesterday and I hate her so much,
Speaker 2: and she was the most annoying person that I've ever
Speaker 2: and I want to talk shit about her.
Speaker 3: Oh I had.
Speaker 1: I was at a wedding while I was gone on
Speaker 1: my longer trip yes where I was with a person
Speaker 1: that I've hated for a decade plus.
Speaker 3: And you didn't tell me what happened at the wedding.
Speaker 1: She just I just fucking can't stand her, and I
Speaker 1: just don't, I like immediately immediately, like there was a
Speaker 1: break in between the wedding and the reception, right, So
Speaker 1: all of us are like, let's go back to the hotel,
Speaker 1: and she's like, let's go to a different hotel, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, stop, everybody's already going to this one hotel.
Speaker 1: Why are you trying to move the whole freaking plan?
Speaker 1: Like she's so annoying. And then she can tell I
Speaker 1: don't like her. So when she got really drunk, she
Speaker 1: started kissing my ass, and I just.
Speaker 3: I just don't like her. Do I know who this is?
Speaker 1: You, by extension, will know who this is. I'll tell
Speaker 1: you who it is.
Speaker 2: Okay, fantastic. Yeah, I didn't hear about that one. But
Speaker 2: the wedding looks beautiful. Oh, the wedding was beautiful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it was beautiful, and I wanted to tell
Speaker 1: you that. On my flight home, I watched Crazy Not Insane,
Speaker 1: that documentary that you talked about that's on HBO Max
Speaker 1: I think or a regular HBO two, and I loved it.
Speaker 3: I was like I was wrapped. I had a baby
Speaker 3: attached to me, like praying he didn't wake up.
Speaker 1: I had like one headphone in just like, you know,
Speaker 1: listening to this lady talk about fucking killers and it
Speaker 1: was I didn't realize it was so much about multiple
Speaker 1: personality disorder. It was so interesting. Anyway, people should watch that.
Speaker 1: It's really good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's here because we talk about doctor Michael Badens
Speaker 2: so much, and you know, this girl, this woman gets
Speaker 2: no attention. I've never heard of this sociologist before this video,
Speaker 2: and it seems like, you know, I always love when
Speaker 2: people are like a laughing stock.
Speaker 3: And then they're right, you know, like the yeah, the
Speaker 3: leo like.
Speaker 2: Actually we're rotating the song or you know the song
Speaker 2: I actually don't even remember.
Speaker 1: I don't remember who wrote because of an Indigo Girls
Speaker 1: song that explains it to me.
Speaker 3: But it is wild science.
Speaker 1: It's like everyone's like, fuck, you drink this poison. And
Speaker 1: then it's like, I guess they're right. Yeah, but it
Speaker 1: also like highlighted to me how like every single abuse
Speaker 1: or every single serial killer, like they've all been so
Speaker 1: horribly abused also.
Speaker 3: In their past.
Speaker 1: Pretty much like when she said evil is a religious
Speaker 1: idea that was that really stuck with me. She was like,
Speaker 1: evil is a religious concept, like these are people that
Speaker 1: are like wired wrong or something is up.
Speaker 2: You know, evil is a religious concept that is very interesting.
Speaker 1: Like I think what her point was, there's not a
Speaker 1: lot of people that are just upborn evil. I'm sure
Speaker 1: it's it's possible, but like it's mostly you've been horribly
Speaker 1: you've been exposed to horrible images, you've been horribly abused.
Speaker 1: Like whatever, did you ever watch Freaks and Geeks? No,
Speaker 1: that's a blind spot for me. Everybody's like, you know
Speaker 1: so and so from Freaks and Geeks, and I'm just like.
Speaker 3: It's it's only one season. Watch it.
Speaker 1: But there's a moment where the nerd, one of the
Speaker 1: nerd boys, finally gets to go on a date with
Speaker 1: this girl he's had a crush on for a while,
Speaker 1: and then mid date he figures out she hates like
Speaker 1: homeless people and poor people and is a full un
Speaker 1: Republican And it's this weird moment. And I had that recently,
Speaker 1: not with the dumb bitch at the bar, but I
Speaker 1: was like talking to someone and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: they like hate homeless people, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: you don't feel ashamed to say this out loud.
Speaker 2: And then like when I when you figured out my
Speaker 2: point of view, it was like, well, you know, you
Speaker 2: just can't talk about this stuff. There's no to win,
Speaker 2: And I go, no, there's a way to win. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's a way to not hate people that are living
Speaker 2: in with nothing, Like yeah, I don't get that. But
Speaker 2: he was like, well, some have problems, but some are
Speaker 2: just on meth. And I'm like, so if it's a
Speaker 2: veteran or someone those abused that then started doing myths,
Speaker 2: suddenly you don't have any care for them. I don't understand,
Speaker 2: and he goes, you know, it's just I don't think
Speaker 2: we should be talking about this. I'm like, no, you
Speaker 2: just you thought socially we were all going to be like, yeah,
Speaker 2: fuck the.
Speaker 3: Tents, Yeah, and then I'll take a shot. Yeah. No,
Speaker 3: Like it was wow, No.
Speaker 2: But this girl, so she you know, when you're trying
Speaker 2: to act too cool, but you're also trying to get
Speaker 2: into our circle. So are you cooler than us or
Speaker 2: are you desperate to hang with us?
Speaker 3: Which one is it? Because you can't act too.
Speaker 2: Cool and then be in the corner being like so
Speaker 2: and like jumping into the conversation. And this bitch from
Speaker 2: Oklahoma started talking about how Chicago has no culture, and
Speaker 2: I actually got up and I left. I go, I'm
Speaker 2: done for the night, thank you. But that was the
Speaker 2: final straw. And it's like, you come.
Speaker 1: To Chicago and you say Chicago has no culture just
Speaker 1: because you don't like that it's just the most insane thing.
Speaker 3: House music. I mean, this city burnt to a crisp
Speaker 3: and was.
Speaker 1: Built the fuck back up Michael Jordan, the bulls, food,
Speaker 1: the popatistics, canipop music, I mean, like it's insane. That's
Speaker 1: a truly, truly unhinged comment to make it and thinking
Speaker 1: she was like the Chicago Museum of Art whatever, that
Speaker 1: museum is called the Art Institute, that is one of
Speaker 1: the greatest places on this planet. As the fuck Like,
Speaker 1: it was just how do you come to a city
Speaker 1: that is like, I mean, everywhere has a culture, but
Speaker 1: to be in this because she likes New York and
Speaker 1: it's always like yeah, but it's different, and she goes
Speaker 1: people aren't I'm like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 2: There's are her our friend works at the Museum of
Speaker 2: Contemporary Art doing amazing work there, Like I just couldn't
Speaker 2: believe it. And then also she kept talking about the
Speaker 2: white like, oh, you guys went to the Cubs, gave
Speaker 2: me should to a White Sox game. It's like I've
Speaker 2: been arrested at a White Sox game and kicked out
Speaker 2: of others. I've been going to White Sox games for
Speaker 2: my whole fucking life. Like, don't fucking talk to me, Like,
Speaker 2: but I try to be chill. And I was like,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I had a great time with the
Speaker 2: Cubs game. She goes, it's cause it's kitsch. I go, no,
Speaker 2: I had an amazing time. She goes, but it's just
Speaker 2: the kitch factor. I go, are you trying to tell
Speaker 2: me what I did at the Cubs game? I go,
Speaker 2: I had a fucking great time because I was sitting
Speaker 2: close and it was a great game, and I'm a
Speaker 2: social person.
Speaker 3: Why the fuck are you telling me what I like?
Speaker 3: And why?
Speaker 2: Like, I could not handle this girl. It was out
Speaker 2: of control, the shit that was coming out of her mouth.
Speaker 1: I Oh, I've been like, but you know, my friend
Speaker 1: had sex with her, But.
Speaker 3: What are you gonna do?
Speaker 1: Like that always the way, That's always why we have
Speaker 1: to deal We always have to deal with dumb bitches.
Speaker 3: Because they're having sex with our friends. I know.
Speaker 2: Wait, there was one other thing she said where I
Speaker 2: was like, I what are you doing?
Speaker 3: It was oh I said something.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, yeah, that crowd didn't liken me
Speaker 2: because of this or that, like and she goes, you
Speaker 2: shouldn't be so self deprecating on yourself.
Speaker 3: I go, I'm not.
Speaker 2: It's just like a fact, like I think I'm great.
Speaker 3: I think I deserve to be a lot richer than
Speaker 3: I am. You obviously don't know me. I'm very confident.
Speaker 1: I'm like, but you're allowed to say if something didn't
Speaker 1: go well or like, you know, like I'm.
Speaker 3: A self laper. But she just was I just to sit.
Speaker 2: From Oklahoma and tell me that Chicago has no culture.
Speaker 1: And where do you think culture, bitch, where do you
Speaker 1: think has culture? That's really nuts, because I also don't
Speaker 1: want to shit on Oklahoma.
Speaker 3: I'm sure there's great things there.
Speaker 2: My friend, yeah, Marshabelski's from Oklahoma.
Speaker 3: But oh, let's be real.
Speaker 1: All right, we got to start because this is a
Speaker 1: long one. But sometimes you guys are like, we love
Speaker 1: a long.
Speaker 3: App so maybe this is it. Let's get going fine,
Speaker 3: But there was another reason why I hated her.
Speaker 2: Oh all right, so we're doing one of the scariest
Speaker 2: and like I wouldn't whatever, it's season nine, episode twelve.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say it's the most movie like, like,
Speaker 3: I know you're not gonna want me to say this,
Speaker 3: but it's very Sunds of the Loombs. No I'm fine
Speaker 3: with that. And it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's just like a law it's but I wouldn't
Speaker 2: say it's against SVU type. It's within the SVU universe.
Speaker 2: But there's something extra spicy about this one.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 3: It opens up in some woods.
Speaker 2: There's a park ranger type guy with his son, and
Speaker 2: the sun is like, man, it smells bad. And the
Speaker 2: dad's like, all right, you know, tough enough. It's just
Speaker 2: a dead animal. So he goes to scoop up this
Speaker 2: dead animal and goes, son, just hold this bag, and
Speaker 2: the man he makes a mustache look good, and then
Speaker 2: he happens upon what the smell is. And then the
Speaker 2: boy starts running directly to it, and the dad is like, no, no.
Speaker 3: No, don't don't see it. And then there's dead bodies.
Speaker 2: He sees the body, he faints, and then the dead
Speaker 2: body has a bullet wound straight in the middle of
Speaker 2: the forehead. The crime scene tape goes up and we're
Speaker 2: ready for an SVU episode, But then all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: chess Lake is there, and then we have Marishka.
Speaker 3: So it's Marishka and Chester Lake.
Speaker 2: They're walking classic walk and Talk and Marishka's in her
Speaker 2: growing pains Leo DiCaprio hair phase, and then all of
Speaker 2: a sudden they zoom in on the maggots and it's like,
Speaker 2: thanks SVI, you I needed a zoom in maggots before
Speaker 2: the credits that, like.
Speaker 1: They never do that. It was really, really, really awful,
Speaker 1: And maggots are gross.
Speaker 2: There is a maggot base forensic files, and so I
Speaker 2: understand the importance of maggots for evidence taking in life
Speaker 2: time of death, but I.
Speaker 3: Don't need a zoom in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, another reason why medical examiner is off the list
Speaker 1: for me for careers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm Melinda's, you know, scooping up these maggots. And
Speaker 2: she tells Benson while dig in with these maggots, she says,
Speaker 2: there's multiple ligature marks, bruising, electrical burns all over the
Speaker 2: body on aerial and genitals, and she's been like turned
Speaker 2: over after the death on the female.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And so then we get another CSU person, you know,
Speaker 2: Captain Judith, and it's wild to get both of them
Speaker 2: together that you know doesn't happen very often. So then
Speaker 2: someone asks the cause of death and the voice from
Speaker 2: a distance narrowing in says dry drowning, which I didn't
Speaker 2: even know that was a thing, and I wish it
Speaker 2: wasn't to think or I wish I didn't know about it,
Speaker 2: but dry drowning and so we're like, who's this voice,
Speaker 2: what's happening?
Speaker 3: What? Who else is there?
Speaker 2: It's Erica Christiansen, who played a big part of my life.
Speaker 2: I don't know if that is something that is important
Speaker 2: to You're looking at me, you have nothing, You're not even.
Speaker 1: Like, but no, I want to hear about I want
Speaker 1: to hear about Erica Christiansen living in your life. I
Speaker 1: just I don't know her in that much except for
Speaker 1: like traffic and a couple of other things.
Speaker 2: Traffic was a big moment. But swim fan to me, yeah,
Speaker 2: still one of my faves. I love a stalker and
Speaker 2: I was on the swim team. So to be a
Speaker 2: swimmer and have suddenly a move movie about swimming was monumental.
Speaker 2: It was like so huge and she played such a
Speaker 2: fucking villain and was nuts, and Jesse Bradford was in
Speaker 2: it from bringing On, so it was like Theseeen sensations
Speaker 2: and it was like just such a huge moment. And
Speaker 2: then I was a big Braverman fan. I love the
Speaker 2: I loved parenthood on NBC. I watched Jason Katims.
Speaker 1: So young Erica Christensen and more adult Erica Christensen have
Speaker 1: both been there for you at various points of your life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was a mom. She was like the tight end.
Speaker 2: I think she plays a tight ass a lot. And
Speaker 2: I'm here there is a tight as bun on her head,
Speaker 2: so for sure, very tight, very tight bun. She's wearing
Speaker 2: a baby blue dress shirt, which is a nightmare. I
Speaker 2: can't think of a worse thing to like office attire
Speaker 2: dress pants. I hope our thing of the past, like
Speaker 2: professionalism and how we see it is just like why
Speaker 2: did we let men come up with our work fashions?
Speaker 3: It makes no sense?
Speaker 2: Like what I just hate that that work fashion is
Speaker 2: so disgusting. Actually talking to our friend and her friend
Speaker 2: had to wear heels at work. It was like it
Speaker 2: was in the role women had to.
Speaker 3: Wear heels at work. It's like it's just fresh.
Speaker 2: That's I actually read like a really cool quote recently
Speaker 2: that I wrote down, and it's like success shouldn't be
Speaker 2: measured by like love or money, but by time.
Speaker 3: Oh for creatives.
Speaker 2: It was a Jeffrey Saltz, what's the art critic for
Speaker 2: the New York magazine.
Speaker 3: He had a quote about like to be how to
Speaker 3: be a.
Speaker 2: Successful artist, and it's like work, work, work, do this,
Speaker 2: do that, And then one of it was like see
Speaker 2: your success in terms of time, right, And I thought
Speaker 2: that was like so perfect, Like that's that's the dream
Speaker 2: of being a stand up or an artist is the time.
Speaker 3: It's not about money. It's like people hate their jobs.
Speaker 2: People hate Aaron's they have to do people like you know,
Speaker 2: like there everything is so scheduled, and especially if you
Speaker 2: then have a family and it's all these things, and
Speaker 2: it's like so cool to have time. Yeah, because I
Speaker 2: always think about it because I think I'm very successful,
Speaker 2: but I don't have that much money. And then I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: but I have more time than anyone I know. And
Speaker 2: that is the best thing I could have hoped for myself.
Speaker 2: I don't have to wear express day pants. I don't
Speaker 2: have to wear a suit coat, I don't have to
Speaker 2: wear heels or little loafers.
Speaker 3: I don't express day pants. I don't have to do it.
Speaker 3: I mean having to buy dress pants to work. It
Speaker 3: as like a p No. I had jobs like that
Speaker 3: in New York and I hated it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, I don't understand why you can't be more
Speaker 2: fashion forward in a job, but either way, it's just
Speaker 2: a nightmare. And that quote, I just saw it this
Speaker 2: week and it like really like I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I have so much time on my hands, this is heaven.
Speaker 1: Well I also feel like, yeah, I feel like female
Speaker 1: cops and female like FBI agents are going to be
Speaker 1: like the last people to drop the dress shirts and
Speaker 1: the gray slacks, Like they're going to be doing that
Speaker 1: shit for a long time.
Speaker 3: I feel like because that's what Olivia wears.
Speaker 1: You know, Olivia rocks at the Olivia is fashion forward.
Speaker 3: She's going to Zara, She's going to Jakres.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she's got like a little like ankle boot
Speaker 1: and stuff like, yeah, she's with some skinny jeans. She's
Speaker 1: doing You're right, she's doing different stuff. Yeah, we've got
Speaker 1: some bad fashions from Olivia over the years too.
Speaker 2: Anyways, back to this crime scene. Sorry about my Jeffrey
Speaker 2: Saltz quotes.
Speaker 4: I just.
Speaker 3: So Erica Christensen type.
Speaker 2: But and Olivia goes, excuse me, you know, we don't
Speaker 2: like new people. Olivia is not a I am. I
Speaker 2: do think Olivia was like a mean girl.
Speaker 3: Jksh.
Speaker 2: I know she had a lot going on as a teen,
Speaker 2: but it's like she just hates any new woman that
Speaker 2: ever shows up. But yes, she does, excuse me, and
Speaker 2: then Erica explains the scoop. She goes, if this is
Speaker 2: my guy, he puts a bag over their head and
Speaker 2: pours a bucket buckets of water on it. I thought
Speaker 2: that was waterboarding, but maybe dry drowning is waterboarding.
Speaker 3: I don't know it is.
Speaker 1: I think it's the same thing. I think it's just
Speaker 1: that drowning is when that you kill them. Waterboarding is
Speaker 1: just like a torture tactic, you know.
Speaker 3: Oh God, Melinda.
Speaker 2: Has two perfectly layered gold necklaces and she's just like,
Speaker 2: and you are like, who are you growing? I'd just
Speaker 2: run onto a crime scene? And who is Erica Christiansen?
Speaker 2: She is FBI agent Laura Cooper in the Behavioral Analysis unit.
Speaker 2: She hunts the woodsman that is her criminal and Benson goes, wait,
Speaker 2: but I haven't filed the sixty one.
Speaker 3: How did you get here so fast?
Speaker 2: Melinda explains that she puts something on the Emmy bulletin
Speaker 2: because the condition of the remains made her want to
Speaker 2: call the FEDS. I kept rewinding and watching this like
Speaker 2: eight times to get exactly what she posted.
Speaker 3: It was too hard. This this is what I have.
Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting to know. I didn't know that there
Speaker 1: was like a separate Emmy network, like where the you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. We're like the medical examiners like
Speaker 1: talk to each other, like has anyone else seen a
Speaker 1: body in this condition?
Speaker 3: You know? Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: I'm sure the forensic people have like conferences like insurance agents.
Speaker 3: You know, they all meet up and do creepy things together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure their parties are at like the freaky
Speaker 2: museums with shrunk heads, you know, the Museum of Death.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I just want to point out that this is
Speaker 1: FBI Agent Cooper and they just keep calling her agent Cooper.
Speaker 3: And if you watch twin.
Speaker 1: Peaks, it's a little it's a little reminiscent because his
Speaker 1: name is Agent Deal Cooper. And it's funny that they
Speaker 1: just call him that because I think he's one of
Speaker 1: the most famous television FBI agents. And they're both FI
Speaker 1: they're both Agent Cooper.
Speaker 3: Go on, I wonder if that was on purpose.
Speaker 2: So then there's also a male victim, So we have
Speaker 2: the female victim and the male victim just a bullet
Speaker 2: wound in the head, and that's not really like typical
Speaker 2: to have a male victim with this killer, so they're confused.
Speaker 2: So what we have is a tortured, dry drown body
Speaker 2: and then a shot in the head man body, and
Speaker 2: the body is dead less than twelve hours. The FBI
Speaker 2: girl Boss says, the male probably walked in on the
Speaker 2: Woodsman at work and he had to kill him and
Speaker 2: had no choice. And her badge is attached to her
Speaker 2: really cool. It's like a sideways clip thing on her
Speaker 2: suit coat and I do love that, and I've never
Speaker 2: really seen a badge attached to like that. And then
Speaker 2: she talks. There's an accent. What is the accent?
Speaker 3: Where is she like? It's such a she talks in such.
Speaker 2: A specific way, but I don't even know what the way.
Speaker 3: That is interesting. I don't know if I caught the accent.
Speaker 2: But then so she says something like, you know, the
Speaker 2: Woodsman thinks he's got and then they go to the credits.
Speaker 2: So we get back from the credits and we're at
Speaker 2: the precinct and Benson lets Craigan know that there is
Speaker 2: DNA at the crime So that's good. And then Finn
Speaker 2: and Stabler are in Montreal on an extradition.
Speaker 3: Okay, sure, Like.
Speaker 1: It's usually there's four detectives in your unit, and like
Speaker 1: you send half of them away for this one extradition.
Speaker 3: But what do you think really was going on?
Speaker 1: Do you think Elliott was like making a movie and
Speaker 1: Finn had like some body count concerts or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder why they weren't there or they asked,
Speaker 2: Like for them both to be gone is pretty peculiar.
Speaker 2: And maybe this is a Neil Bear question if he
Speaker 2: because he would remain. Yeah, they took off because I
Speaker 2: wonder if they both had whatever. So Agent Cooper is
Speaker 2: giving a presentation to the SVU about the Woodsman. He's
Speaker 2: a sexual sadis who keeps his victims alive after abduction
Speaker 2: and then kills the body, then dumps it, then visits
Speaker 2: and poses them. And he has twenty four victims. That
Speaker 2: is so many. I actually right when I said that outloud,
Speaker 2: I realized we're going to hear the true crime and
Speaker 2: I got sad okay, So but great guest, Okay, So
Speaker 2: he strangles and revives, that's the thing. He rapes with
Speaker 2: foreign objects, burns Genitalia, and then the end is always
Speaker 2: a dry drowning and the victims overlap because he likes
Speaker 2: to have one victim listen as he tortures another victim.
Speaker 3: This is the worst, it's the worst.
Speaker 2: So but what's even worse is that means he might
Speaker 2: have another victim out there right now, so like, you
Speaker 2: know this dropped, there is another one that was watching
Speaker 2: this torture. So someone's out there and they have to
Speaker 2: move fast, and Benson's match. He goes, why wouldn't you
Speaker 2: tell me this sooner?
Speaker 3: Hello?
Speaker 2: And Erica's like, he's unpredictable, like sometimes he travels through
Speaker 2: state lines, he hunts in city, dumpson country like I'm
Speaker 2: doing the best I can.
Speaker 3: So Craigan reveals that.
Speaker 2: The woodsy area we saw the bodies in is in
Speaker 2: Central Park and it's not a highly populated area, so
Speaker 2: he knows his way around the park.
Speaker 3: So that is a clue.
Speaker 2: So the reason the man up top of the episode
Speaker 2: even went over to the area was because he got
Speaker 2: an email about a dead dog. And Huang is like,
Speaker 2: but that's not part of his signature, because giving directions
Speaker 2: to a body shows empathy or remorse, and this guy
Speaker 2: does not have that for these victims. He thinks his
Speaker 2: victims are garbage. He would not email. So we have
Speaker 2: to find out who sent this email saying that there
Speaker 2: was a dead dog to send someone to find these bodies.
Speaker 2: And then the other man, the man body that was
Speaker 2: found had a jogging suit on keys no idea, and
Speaker 2: so they're trying to find out who he is. For
Speaker 2: Jane do there are two possible matches, and Benson thinks
Speaker 2: it's one of the matches named Bunny Jones, an exotic dancer,
Speaker 2: and a guy named Lavender reported her missing two weeks ago.
Speaker 2: So now Erica and Olivia, agent Cooper whatever, swim fan,
Speaker 2: they go the girls. I'm gonna call him the girls.
Speaker 2: They go visit Lavender at the strip club and he
Speaker 2: is wearing lavender, and then he goes, it's love van dirt.
Speaker 2: Do I look like a fucking flower to you? Which
Speaker 2: I love because he is wearing lavender, So it's like,
Speaker 2: you don't want to be called lavin love Van der.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm naming my future dog that there's no
Speaker 2: aner Lovander, but this is I mean, that's my new
Speaker 2: drag name. Okay, but this is uh, I just this
Speaker 2: is why we love SVU. It's such a you know,
Speaker 2: a maggot up top and then a nice little gameplay
Speaker 2: were at the in the middle. So they tell him
Speaker 2: by Ony Jones is missing and he goes, no, she isn't.
Speaker 2: And a woman comes over who has like a poof
Speaker 2: in the front, which really like puts this in the
Speaker 2: season nine time frame. She's wearing a belly chain, and
Speaker 2: so we find out she was just shacking up with
Speaker 2: some loser guy and LeVander was worried for his strippers
Speaker 2: and reported her missing but never said she returned, and
Speaker 2: it pisses Erica Christiansen off and they kind of fight
Speaker 2: a little bit, and it you know, like how dare
Speaker 2: you waste precious time in this investigation there could be
Speaker 2: a live victim. Go fuck yourself, And so Lavander to
Speaker 2: apologize like, well, I can give you one on one
Speaker 2: time with the bunny you know, was the stripper, and
Speaker 2: Erica like there's karate moves whatever.
Speaker 3: She brings him to his knees, there's yell whatever.
Speaker 2: So then he says cops come in all the time
Speaker 2: and he gives them lap dances like this is I'm
Speaker 2: not I'm not trying to do anything this is what
Speaker 2: usually happens, and that's the thing.
Speaker 3: Like they're pissed because they're moral detectives.
Speaker 2: But then every other cop comes and expects free dances,
Speaker 2: And then I'm like, are they getting paid.
Speaker 3: For these free dances?
Speaker 2: You know, like if during waitressing, if a boss's friend
Speaker 2: came in and the thing was comped, you would still
Speaker 2: get tips or you get compensated. So I'm just wondering
Speaker 2: what these strippers get for dancing for all these back Yeah.
Speaker 3: That's a good question. Or if the cops tip even
Speaker 3: or if they're actually the most.
Speaker 1: Violent and the worst people on earth, I bet they
Speaker 1: do not tip.
Speaker 3: I'd be willing to wager. So I felt like I
Speaker 3: was being confusing.
Speaker 2: But basically, Erica puts Lavander in some kind of wrestling
Speaker 2: choke cold. He goes, stop it, I'll give you a
Speaker 2: sexy dance. She goes, we don't have time. We have
Speaker 2: a live victim. So they walk into the strip club
Speaker 2: and they get a page that the waitress isn't missing anymore.
Speaker 2: So they go to Kate's house the waitress to talk
Speaker 2: to the parents, and basically she was in a foraging
Speaker 2: club in Central Park looking for edible plans, and the
Speaker 2: dad didn't like the guy who ran the program and
Speaker 2: said that he was pushy and kept asking her out
Speaker 2: on dates and was like controlling. So they have to
Speaker 2: go talk to the other Jane Doe, like possible, Jane
Speaker 2: Doe's guy from this foraging club.
Speaker 3: It's like, just join a softballed game. Okay.
Speaker 2: So this guy Vest, we'll call him Vest Boy. He's
Speaker 2: wearing three layers. Once I noticed this in SVU, I
Speaker 2: can't stop noticing. But like so many people wear three layers.
Speaker 2: It's like everyone is wearing three layers. It's really hard
Speaker 2: not to see this anymore. And he has a beaded
Speaker 2: necklace on and glasses, but he didn't have dirt on him,
Speaker 2: which Erica didn't like, like how are you foraging?
Speaker 3: And you're not dirty?
Speaker 2: And so they do this like interrogation in the park
Speaker 2: and it's very poorn like, like it is sexual like
Speaker 2: that if this was the start of a porn I
Speaker 2: would believe it. They're just like so kind of mean
Speaker 2: to him and he I think he likes it, and
Speaker 2: they think he did it, so of course they're going
Speaker 2: to be aggressive to him. But like, I don't think
Speaker 2: he did it. I there's no fucking way. I don't
Speaker 2: think they that he is guilty of anything. He seems
Speaker 2: way too dorky and anxious for this kind of crime,
Speaker 2: and he gives all the addresses and all the names
Speaker 2: of anyone in the group and is willing to help
Speaker 2: in any way. Possibly he's like, I did nothing. I'm
Speaker 2: just kind of a dork who wanted to, you know,
Speaker 2: ask her out. But like, here is all the information,
Speaker 2: so you know, he wasn't one of those that's like
Speaker 2: I need a warrant, I'm protecting my civil liberties.
Speaker 3: He's just like, whatever you need, ladies. Then it cuts
Speaker 3: to B.
Speaker 2: D Wong pontificating and recording into a tape recorder everything
Speaker 2: he thinks that's happening with the Woodsman killer.
Speaker 3: So the profile that BD Wong.
Speaker 2: Aka Huang is thinking is white male, thirty five to
Speaker 2: fifty five, normal intelligence, but street smart. He targets strangers,
Speaker 2: depersonalizes victims, uses restraints, aggressive crime scene reflects control, and
Speaker 2: high level of comfort of environment. Bodies are dumped in
Speaker 2: the open, but in remote areas not mapped for tourists.
Speaker 2: There's no witnesses, ever, which means he has surveillance of
Speaker 2: the victims, and then we hear while we hear BD's voice,
Speaker 2: we see Chester Lake standing outside of a busy New
Speaker 2: York street thinking about something, putting all the pieces together.
Speaker 2: So Huang is talking and Chester's figuring out like surveillance stuff.
Speaker 2: His eyes go to like atm cameras and street cameras
Speaker 2: and he's just looking at everything. And Wang says, but
Speaker 2: this is strange because the emails were sent through some
Speaker 2: weird wiring techs thing. This is against type, like this
Speaker 2: guy's not a techie. And so then we see Chester's
Speaker 2: at an internet cafe and an employee runs out and
Speaker 2: tells Chester, hey, I can confirm these emails were sent
Speaker 2: through this cafe in this like weird high tech way,
Speaker 2: and he's going to try to track down what email
Speaker 2: it came from and help track down the killer. So
Speaker 2: we cut back to the office Holden. Huang is looking
Speaker 2: at a photo of a doctor Tillman and agent Cooper
Speaker 2: and so they're together, and basically he's con like, he
Speaker 2: says that there's holes in the research because this doctor Tillman,
Speaker 2: who you know, is a contemporary of agent Cooper or whatever.
Speaker 3: They're working together.
Speaker 2: He looks older, but he says, They're like the holes
Speaker 2: in the research are because of doctor Tillman's mental deterioration
Speaker 2: and then suicide. So now we understand that this is
Speaker 2: a personal case for Agent Cooper because this doctor Tillman
Speaker 2: killed himself because he went crazy researching this case. So
Speaker 2: then we cut to another professional. We have Melinda Warner
Speaker 2: explaining what happened to the victim. So, Kate died ten
Speaker 2: days ago. Torture by waterboarding is how death happened, and
Speaker 2: uterus punctured and her colon was punctured. And then Cooper's like, Okay,
Speaker 2: we've heard enough, and this is like I love Melinda
Speaker 2: at her best. She turns around very Michael Badden in
Speaker 2: her spirit, like she's so badass, and she flips her
Speaker 2: head straight to the camera and goes, I speak for
Speaker 2: the dead, and I'm not done.
Speaker 3: I love that. I loved it. I loved that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, God, when will we meet Melinda? I'm
Speaker 2: about to go watch my cameo again. Okay, So then
Speaker 2: Erica responds being like, at least he didn't cut her
Speaker 2: up into pieces and he let her keep her head.
Speaker 1: What I think she's referring to ways he's disposed of
Speaker 1: other victims, like this isn't the worst she's seen.
Speaker 3: I guess, but I don't really know why. Yeah, but
Speaker 3: this this weird point of view.
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, are you telling this dead body to
Speaker 2: be grateful that her.
Speaker 1: Head wasn't chopped off? Like I'm confused. Yeah, I'm confused.
Speaker 2: While you're mad at Melinda for having like humanity towards
Speaker 2: the dead and these victims, and you're just like she's lucky.
Speaker 3: No, I think she's.
Speaker 1: What she's trying to do is say I've seen so
Speaker 1: much fucked up shit, and then like it gives Melinda
Speaker 1: the idea like, oh, this bitch doesn't deal with what
Speaker 1: I deal with every day, so maybe I'll go a
Speaker 1: little easier on her, you know.
Speaker 2: But also it's like, actually, doctor Agent Cooper, you haven't
Speaker 2: seen this, That's the whole point. You're a behavioral person. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you analyze. So then also like shut her down in
Speaker 2: ways of I've seen worse, You've read worse, you've not
Speaker 2: been on the case, like digging in these people's bodies,
Speaker 2: Like I just don't fuck with my girl.
Speaker 1: The thing is is that evidence is everything, and Melinda
Speaker 1: has like all the evidence.
Speaker 3: Basically, when a body is dumped.
Speaker 1: Like that that it's all rust with the body, So
Speaker 1: you need to shut up and listen to every single
Speaker 1: thing she's saying, Like you don't need to go oh,
Speaker 1: we get the GISTs, like no, she's gonna tell you
Speaker 1: something like tell you everything you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but Melinda says sorry, which again I know.
Speaker 3: What you agree with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I understand the details are a lot, but like
Speaker 2: that's her job and that's what you're there for. So
Speaker 2: John Doe was shot once, but there's no slug at
Speaker 2: like which is the leftover bullet piece? And since they
Speaker 2: were not able to find a leftover bullet piece thing,
Speaker 2: there's no way to connect the two killings, and so
Speaker 2: there's no evidence that ties them together. That was killed
Speaker 2: by the same person. So dun dund on, what's gonna happen?
Speaker 2: Uh Chester is looking at internet cafe footage. That's what
Speaker 2: he's decided to do. And then Huang asks swim fan Cooper, like, hey,
Speaker 2: did you notice when Tilman lost his mind? Was it
Speaker 2: a specific case? Because the profile has a lot of errors,
Speaker 2: and if I can pinpoint what victim made him go nuts, like,
Speaker 2: then I can go back and start making profiles from
Speaker 2: then and she's like, I don't remember, and he's like
Speaker 2: you need to try because he's torturing another victim right now,
Speaker 2: and she loses it and goes like I don't fucking know,
Speaker 2: which is true, Like she doesn't know what's happening. She
Speaker 2: has been working in these cases, beatde like come on,
Speaker 2: like disrespect all around, but.
Speaker 3: Also she needs to figure this out. But she goes.
Speaker 2: Wild and she's like, if I knew, I would have
Speaker 2: stopped him from killing himself. Hello, he was my favorite person.
Speaker 2: You think I would have just let him go nuts
Speaker 2: slowly in mind in my own business, like I was
Speaker 2: there to fucking help.
Speaker 1: This is a weird line to go down that if
Speaker 1: you have a mental illness or some kind of deterioration,
Speaker 1: that's just happening. There's not a specific case that's making
Speaker 1: you go nuts or making your mind deteriorate. You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe that's like a crime show trope, but it
Speaker 2: seems like the case end up taking over certain detectives'
Speaker 2: lives and yeah, they spiral, so I mean, I don't know,
Speaker 2: but she says like he was my mentor and I
Speaker 2: didn't see it coming. And I'm sure she has a
Speaker 2: lot of guilts like she is.
Speaker 1: An agent and a behavioral analysis and like didn't see
Speaker 1: it coming. Pick up on this right, They cut to
Speaker 1: Chester Lake and he makes a puzzled, confused face when
Speaker 1: she says that statement.
Speaker 2: But we don't know much, but there is a confused face.
Speaker 2: And then Daddy Craigan Waltz is in and he's like,
Speaker 2: there's a problem. We found the Woodsman, which how is
Speaker 2: that a problem?
Speaker 3: Right? And people are like where, what?
Speaker 5: What?
Speaker 3: And he goes in the morgue.
Speaker 2: What the DNA sample CSU found matches the John Doe
Speaker 2: they found, so he's dead. So the dead male body
Speaker 2: at the crime scene is the Woodsman killer, which is
Speaker 2: awesome because this evil piece of.
Speaker 3: Shit is dead.
Speaker 2: But it's bad because they think that there's another live
Speaker 2: victim and now he's dead and they can't get any
Speaker 2: information about anybody. Yeah, Erica takes a deep breath. I'm
Speaker 2: assuming there was a commercial right here. So then we
Speaker 2: see a photo of the Woodsman. He's wearing a park
Speaker 2: Ranger style hat. His name is Larry Moore and he
Speaker 2: looks like he would be on CBS Survivor. I can't
Speaker 2: tell you why, but if you watch Survivor and you
Speaker 2: saw this photo.
Speaker 3: You know exactly what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: So he's a non commissioned park ranger but also a
Speaker 2: cop maintenance ranger.
Speaker 1: I'm confused. I'm confused so much in this episode, like
Speaker 1: I don't know, And I kept rewinding and rewriting, and
Speaker 1: I was like, how, I don't know?
Speaker 3: Was he a cop?
Speaker 1: Is he a park ranger? Is he a maintenance mountain
Speaker 1: ranger cop? Like, I don't fucking know. Maybe I'm assuming
Speaker 1: that if he's non commissioned park ranger, that he's like
Speaker 1: a park ranger, but like you have to actually get
Speaker 1: like licensed and ship to be a park ranger. So
Speaker 1: maybe he's more just like a maintenance ranger where he
Speaker 1: just like you know, does just for sure.
Speaker 2: But then why did Craigan say that he was a
Speaker 2: former cop or a cop? Like That's what I kept
Speaker 2: not understanding. I kept watching and I was just like,
Speaker 2: what is happening? But you know, yeah, you are totally
Speaker 2: right on with the maintenance thing, like he opened and
Speaker 2: closed the park in the season, Like when the season
Speaker 2: opened and closed, he picked up trash. Okay, so yeah,
Speaker 2: they're just gabbing trying to figure it out. But how
Speaker 2: did nobody hear the torture, so she goes, well, maybe
Speaker 2: the winter cabins, like, maybe he's there. Chester then finds
Speaker 2: an apartment in the city that he was subleasing, so
Speaker 2: they get moving to the apartment. They enter with all
Speaker 2: these guns, searching for scoop, knocking down bookshelves, junk, junk, junk.
Speaker 2: So while they're going through the evidence in the apartment,
Speaker 2: she's like opening up to Benson and she reveals that
Speaker 2: she grew up in a group home and that this
Speaker 2: Tillman guy recruited her when she was a junior in
Speaker 2: college and she felt like he was her dad. That
Speaker 2: is the dream to be for the FBI to find
Speaker 2: you and in college, we need you.
Speaker 3: You're the one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like such a men in black like amazing moment,
Speaker 2: Like that is just so cool. Obviously you obviously need
Speaker 2: special skills, but also the FBI is watching all of
Speaker 2: our grades, all of our skills. So Benson says, oh
Speaker 2: my god, I think I got something and it's a
Speaker 2: key and hopefully it's to the murder room. And then
Speaker 2: there's one photo in the whole room and it says
Speaker 2: Aunt Helen nineteen eighty. So they go to visit Aunt
Speaker 2: Helen she's gardening. She has full glass bangs flowers, marble galore,
Speaker 2: she's wearing a little apron. They tell her that her
Speaker 2: nephew tortures and murders women, and she starts kind of crying,
Speaker 2: not fully, but asks how many. They say over twenty,
Speaker 2: and Erica's like, hey, girl, you don't seem surprised. And
Speaker 2: the aunt says, I've known for a long time what
Speaker 2: he's capable of, and she said she hasn't seen him
Speaker 2: since he got out of jail, and Benson says, oh, well,
Speaker 2: he doesn't have a record and he was a juvenile
Speaker 2: so it was sealed and then a sponge. But he
Speaker 2: was visiting her in the summer and volunteering to clean
Speaker 2: up Central Park and a couple of girls said that
Speaker 2: he touched them, and at first she believed that they
Speaker 2: were lying, but then she knew he was bad at
Speaker 2: a moment, and like she doesn't want to talk about it.
Speaker 2: She's like, I mean, it makes me uncomfortable. I don't
Speaker 2: want to say it out loud. But something happened either
Speaker 2: to her or she witnessed that made her I'll be like, oh,
Speaker 2: my nephew's a that, and I'm scared of him. So
Speaker 2: the detectives explain, we're trying to find out where he
Speaker 2: holds people, and she said, I mean he liked the docks,
Speaker 2: he liked the ships going in and out, and he
Speaker 2: liked the noise. So they cut to a busy precinct
Speaker 2: and Benson says to Craigan, there's no connection to a
Speaker 2: seaside thing according to his financials at all, and he
Speaker 2: pays for most things in cash except for rent, and
Speaker 2: that's a red flag obviously paying with cash everywhere.
Speaker 3: Cooper said, yeah, don't you want the airline points?
Speaker 2: Okay, So Cooper says, he gets off on the screaming
Speaker 2: and the sheer terror, so it needs to be a
Speaker 2: place where they can really scream.
Speaker 3: He's a sadist and this is just so.
Speaker 2: Scary, like to think someone wants this is the scariest.
Speaker 2: So Benson goes, well, this key is to a storage
Speaker 2: facility and that might give him a lot of freedom,
Speaker 2: like someplace that's dead at night and busy in the daytime,
Speaker 2: and then he could go there at night. But there's
Speaker 2: so many places in the city, like what is it?
Speaker 2: And then Benson finds the receipt for Augusta Cruises what
Speaker 2: the fuck is that the phone number is no longer registered?
Speaker 2: So Craigan knows that when cruise lines go under, they
Speaker 2: sell their storage spaces to companies, and then that's the
Speaker 2: lead we really need. So we know that the Augusta
Speaker 2: Cruises sold their property. It's just some storage unit we
Speaker 2: gotta go. So it's River Run Cruises peers and the
Speaker 2: guy wants a warrant to search shit, and they're like,
Speaker 2: are you fucking kidding me? There's dead women, someone was
Speaker 2: torturing women here, and you're fucking gonna do what we
Speaker 2: tell you, So he gives in. Of course, you don't
Speaker 2: really turn down when both of them steer you down.
Speaker 2: And it's a big squad team, lots of people, lots
Speaker 2: of rounding up guns, bulletproof vests, like everyone is ready
Speaker 2: to get in there. But I don't know why you
Speaker 2: need all those guns and stuff, Like the guy's dead,
Speaker 2: but maybe you know he had a partner.
Speaker 3: In compos Yeah.
Speaker 2: So then Benson is told to stand back and she
Speaker 2: takes my dad's approach and it is like, I'd rather
Speaker 2: ask for forgiveness than permission.
Speaker 3: Hell, yes, so she goes.
Speaker 2: So then we hear torture like it's bad, and like
Speaker 2: the set designer did a really good job, Like maybe
Speaker 2: we should look into what they're up to because this
Speaker 2: torture chamber, it seems very realistic.
Speaker 1: It's so scary. It's a really scary murder drip drops also,
Speaker 1: there are drip drops, like I said before.
Speaker 3: A sure sign you're about to find like a murder den.
Speaker 1: Wait what remember in another episode we did, I was
Speaker 1: like there when there's the sound of like drip drip drip, Yeah,
Speaker 1: like you always know you're about to see something really creepy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's tubes and hooks and metal and chains and
Speaker 2: sounds of screaming and like it's just really scary. And
Speaker 2: then the sounds of the torture are coming from a
Speaker 2: TV though, and it shows a video of a woman
Speaker 2: in a tub being tortured and screaming, and there is
Speaker 2: that version of the tub in the torture chamber, and
Speaker 2: it's empty right now. So that video is to terrorize
Speaker 2: a victim, so there's got be a victim. And so
Speaker 2: they're slowly walking and looking at all these machines and
Speaker 2: it is really scary.
Speaker 3: And I have a personal story to add to this.
Speaker 2: So this is obviously horrific, like when you think about
Speaker 2: the worst things that can happen to you in the fear,
Speaker 2: it's like, I don't want to get kidnapped and tortured
Speaker 2: like that is the thing, like so many different crimes.
Speaker 2: It's like to be changed to a thing knowing you'll
Speaker 2: never escape torture. Watch it's I can't think of anything worse.
Speaker 2: It is made of nightmares. So years ago, I would
Speaker 2: say seventy eight years ago, I did DMT with a
Speaker 2: group of friends and we one in, one at a time,
Speaker 2: and one at a time, everyone did DMT, and everyone
Speaker 2: I saw, I saw a rainbow civilization of people dancing
Speaker 2: to algreen, and I saw outer space.
Speaker 3: I saw like rainbow, like I saw God right, I.
Speaker 2: Saw outer space and like the existence of like family,
Speaker 2: Like it really was an amazing moment.
Speaker 3: My body felt great, and we're all going in one
Speaker 3: at a time. And then our friend.
Speaker 2: Dave is reacting weird and we don't know why, but
Speaker 2: he's not telling us because he's a good drug taker,
Speaker 2: so he's not going to like say anything bad that
Speaker 2: happened and fuck up someone else's high. So he's just
Speaker 2: standing in the bathtub smoking cigarettes outside the window. And
Speaker 2: we're like, what the fuck is going on? So then
Speaker 2: after we all do drugs, he tells us he had
Speaker 2: the worst trip of his life and that his DMT
Speaker 2: trip was that he was chained down to a table,
Speaker 2: knew he was about to be tortured, but couldn't do
Speaker 2: anything about it.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: And so the good thing with DMT is it is
Speaker 2: only like ten to fifteen minutes, but for ten fifteen
Speaker 2: minutes he was in his brain chained to a table
Speaker 2: and couldn't escape.
Speaker 3: Wow, And do you think.
Speaker 1: That that's like something that is in your mind that
Speaker 1: like obviously right, Like isn't that the drugs just bringing
Speaker 1: something that's deep in your subconscious to the surface?
Speaker 3: Right? Yeah.
Speaker 2: Our theory was like, our friend David is like kind
Speaker 2: of a golden Retriever in a way. He's like a happy,
Speaker 2: go lucky, positive, chill dude who's not really bothered. So
Speaker 2: maybe the universe needed to instill fear in him or
Speaker 2: something like I don't know, like I have no idea,
Speaker 2: but it is the worst thing I can imagine, and
Speaker 2: I guess the best way to imagine.
Speaker 3: It is on a drug trip, because it's not real.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but he's done DMT since and loved it,
Speaker 1: so okay, well wow.
Speaker 3: I'm glad he was able to give it another shot.
Speaker 3: Well because we were like having the time of our lives.
Speaker 3: He was so generous. It was such a short high.
Speaker 3: That's it is, and it feels awesome.
Speaker 2: And then we all did it again, but all at once,
Speaker 2: and then I would open my eyes and people were
Speaker 2: like it was like it was awesome if you get DMT.
Speaker 3: Fuck. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So there's like piles of VHS tapes and it's just
Speaker 2: like really scary in there, and Chester says that there's
Speaker 2: nobody in here, but thank god, there's better detectives in
Speaker 2: the room. So Benson opens like this metal container that's
Speaker 2: under the torture taber and there's a girl in there.
Speaker 1: Which is like very reminiscent by the way of slaves.
Speaker 1: When like there's that push pressure like thing under the bed,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like not everything is what it seems.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's in braun underwear. She's she's scared and she's
Speaker 2: screaming through the tape, like shuffling, twitching, screaming. Her hands
Speaker 2: are black, so like maybe frozen or something like for
Speaker 2: us to buy a torture electroc I don't know what
Speaker 2: it is, but she's injured, and Erica keeps screaming on
Speaker 2: educated suggestions. She was like move her, remove the tape,
Speaker 2: and Benson's like, go away.
Speaker 3: We cannot move her.
Speaker 2: She might have a spinal injury, and we cannot rip
Speaker 2: the tape off without a solution or a skin will rip.
Speaker 2: Like you are not good at this, Shut the fuck up,
Speaker 2: and then Cooper goes and grabs some torture knife and.
Speaker 1: Starts heading towards the girl. What what was she thinking?
Speaker 1: What was she thinking? Fucking nuts? So the girl of
Speaker 1: course goes insane and Benson's like what are you doing?
Speaker 1: And then Erica does this movement of like what do
Speaker 1: you want me to do?
Speaker 2: Like arms in the air, and it's like, don't take
Speaker 2: a torture scalpel to a torture victim.
Speaker 3: How about what were you gonna do? Cut her mouth open?
Speaker 2: Like fuck god ough these behavior experts, they know nothing.
Speaker 2: So the girls are in the hospital and Benson and
Speaker 2: Eric are talking shop like how long has this victim
Speaker 2: been there? The girl so the victim is in critical condition.
Speaker 2: The docs says what happened to her? And they respond
Speaker 2: everything So unfortunately, she's too weak for surgery. So even
Speaker 2: like they can't even help her. She like, they can't
Speaker 2: perform the surgery she needs because she's too weak for surgery.
Speaker 2: But they're just pumping her up with fluids and antibiotics
Speaker 2: and really trying to get her back.
Speaker 3: And then this is like a scene they only do.
Speaker 2: They don't do this very often, but it's a powerful
Speaker 2: scene where Benson and Erica they get to work and
Speaker 2: they take pictures of all the injuries and it's just
Speaker 2: like really brutal, and then they fingerprint her black and
Speaker 2: purple fingers and it's just it's a lot. Benson explains,
Speaker 2: like we need to find her family and find out
Speaker 2: who she is because if she's not gonna make it,
Speaker 2: which is likely, we need the family here. And Agent
Speaker 2: Cooper can't handle it, and she starts bawling and crying
Speaker 2: and she's like, I'm not okay.
Speaker 3: This is not what I'm used to.
Speaker 2: I don't deal with victims, and so it just proves
Speaker 2: the point that how important the Special Victims Unit really is.
Speaker 2: So we're back at the station with Kragan and Lake
Speaker 2: and you know, not a dynamic duo. We're like, what
Speaker 2: is happening? The where are the other detectives? But basically
Speaker 2: Jersey is playing hardball with the evidence, and it's like, what.
Speaker 3: Why wouldn't you want what?
Speaker 1: I don't understand playing big dick games when it comes
Speaker 1: to torture and evidence.
Speaker 3: Like, oh is Jersey where the Augusta Cruzes was?
Speaker 6: Oh?
Speaker 3: Okay, got it?
Speaker 2: And it's like, just why are we playing jurisdiction games
Speaker 2: when it's like full torture chambers. It's so angering and
Speaker 2: it wouldn't be so angry if we didn't know this
Speaker 2: happens all the time in real life, right, So basically
Speaker 2: Chester is just one track mine.
Speaker 3: He's like, we got to see who sent the email.
Speaker 3: We got to see who sent the email?
Speaker 2: And he says, taru enhance the footage, which we know
Speaker 2: is not a thing that happens in real life.
Speaker 3: No real but boom baby, who is it?
Speaker 2: He sees who it is. It's Agent Cooper. Agent Cooper
Speaker 2: sent the email. She is found on the security cam
Speaker 2: footage in a baseball cap leaving the internet cafe.
Speaker 3: It's like, you're a fucking FBI agent and a baseball.
Speaker 1: Cap does not hide your identity? Like I can't believe
Speaker 1: that she just didn't know that she would be caught
Speaker 1: on like multiple CCTV cameras that are like all over
Speaker 1: the sea the city.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's an idiot.
Speaker 2: Maybe she didn't realize like, yeah, you knew they were
Speaker 2: going to try to find who sent the email.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was bad.
Speaker 2: Benson comes into Craigen's office novakas they're waiting, and they
Speaker 2: tell Benson about the Internet cafe scoop and Benson is
Speaker 2: like there must be a reason, like that's not her,
Speaker 2: that's not her, And Benson goes, you don't know her
Speaker 2: and no backs like neither do you, Like we just
Speaker 2: met her a few days ago, be real girl. During
Speaker 2: the talk, Craigan gets a call that Amy Doe died, which,
Speaker 2: like hammers home, what like Erica did is bad because
Speaker 2: if she just sent this email found the body, it
Speaker 2: wouldn't be that bad.
Speaker 3: But because of her not being.
Speaker 2: Up front right away, you know, we could have saved
Speaker 2: Amy Doe. Yeah, so Erica is now an interrogation and
Speaker 2: Benson walks in and you know, we're about to have
Speaker 2: an amazing scene. Benson does have like a weird gold
Speaker 2: clasp right underneath her titties on her shirt.
Speaker 3: Did you notice it? It was like I did not
Speaker 3: a bell, but like right.
Speaker 2: Under her boobs there was just like a gemstone silver
Speaker 2: clasp and it's very real.
Speaker 3: Housewives of OC Early Seasons does like to see that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Benson says she's waiting for an FBI officer to
Speaker 2: like come, kind of like a union wrap, I would guess,
Speaker 2: and Erica goes, no, I know what's up.
Speaker 3: I don't care, I pass, I don't just talk to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so she said, hey, so did you send an
Speaker 2: email to the parks department about the dead dog? And
Speaker 2: she responds, how do you want me to respond to that?
Speaker 2: And Benson goes, well, I'd love for you to say no,
Speaker 2: but you can't. CanYa Burn, She's like, wow, must be
Speaker 2: so many confessions in this room, trying to free the
Speaker 2: soul of a burden. And Benson says do you sleep
Speaker 2: at night? And she goes, I sleep fine, And then
Speaker 2: Benson says did you kill him? And she says, I
Speaker 2: have the right to remain silent, and you know the
Speaker 2: rest of the speech.
Speaker 3: She doesn't know that.
Speaker 2: So then Benson shows Agent Cooper the photo of her
Speaker 2: leaving the cafe, and she tears up a little bit
Speaker 2: and says, stop pretending you're on my side.
Speaker 3: I know there's a search warrant on my apartment right now.
Speaker 2: We're not friends, and it's like, you know the warrant process,
Speaker 2: but you didn't know you'd be caught on every single
Speaker 2: camera lead in a cafe. So we're at Agent Cooper's
Speaker 2: apartment and there's a csu tech and Chester Lake and
Speaker 2: Chester's in a leather jacket and he's looking for a trophy.
Speaker 2: He knows, he knows there's a trophy this person would
Speaker 2: want to look at it. He goes as soon as
Speaker 2: they wake up and go to bed. He wants it.
Speaker 2: And he's like staring and really like being annoying. If
Speaker 2: you were there, you'd be annoyed with.
Speaker 3: His personality for sure.
Speaker 2: And he's like, where's the evidence. Where's the evidence? He
Speaker 2: lays down in her bed and he sees it and
Speaker 2: in a spice rack where all the spices are like
Speaker 2: in test tubes. In one of them there's the bullet casing.
Speaker 2: So Chester Lake comes through, Come through, Mama. So then
Speaker 2: back at the precinct, the FBI like headperson like one
Speaker 2: of the protectors comes and they're having a back and
Speaker 2: forth and Benson implies she's fucking that she's fucked her
Speaker 2: father figure Tolman, and she goes, how dare you? I
Speaker 2: wouldn't And if you publicly malign him, the FBI building
Speaker 2: will fall on you like a ton of bricks.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: But then Chester walks into the interrogation room. I guess
Speaker 2: there was no traffic that day in Manhattan, and he
Speaker 2: shows up with the test tube.
Speaker 3: Baby.
Speaker 2: He shows up with the trophy in a plastic bag
Speaker 2: and goes got it.
Speaker 3: And Benson is upset about this.
Speaker 2: You know, she thought she really bonded with like this,
Speaker 2: carrying other powerful female detective that it's so hungry for
Speaker 2: the job and for justice. So she's pretty betrayed in
Speaker 2: many ways. But Benson handcuffs her and takes her away,
Speaker 2: and then her lawyer is Cleo Conrad, fantastic. The head
Speaker 2: cops are marching in the precinct in between court scenes,
Speaker 2: and Novak's wearing three layers again.
Speaker 3: I will never be able to not see this.
Speaker 2: So we have a woman I don't think i've ever
Speaker 2: there's a woman eighty a Lydia Ramos for the people,
Speaker 2: and she says, all the charges are dropped and let's
Speaker 2: go drink pina coladas, Honey.
Speaker 3: What is happening?
Speaker 1: And the judges are free to go, and I don't
Speaker 1: understand what's happening, And then we cut back in the
Speaker 1: head cops are like filling Kragan in and they're like, listen,
Speaker 1: the DA is arguing with the cops, and no vacuum
Speaker 1: people are protecting her.
Speaker 2: It's just like a fucking conniption fit. But basically, high
Speaker 2: up governments are letting her go. And it's like but
Speaker 2: also they're worried because it's like, what jury's ever even
Speaker 2: going to find her guilty? She killed a fucking statist
Speaker 2: who has twenty four victims America loves a rogue FBI
Speaker 2: agent for justice, so it's like, why even do this?
Speaker 3: And the head caught Marshall guy is like, don't you
Speaker 3: have anything?
Speaker 2: We need a final piece of evidence where she confesses
Speaker 2: or there's no charges, and Benson wants her to walk
Speaker 2: though Benson's like, who cares, Yeah, she.
Speaker 3: Did it, like, let her go.
Speaker 2: I'm on the whoever pulled the strings to let her go.
Speaker 3: I'm fine with it.
Speaker 2: I'm confused why the bullet casing isn't enough evidence though,
Speaker 2: but maybe they need the gun. I have no idea,
Speaker 2: but she wants to let her go. She yeah, she
Speaker 2: wants a brunch friend. Like she's like, no, this is
Speaker 2: my new best friend. You can't take her away from me.
Speaker 2: So Craigan and Novak are fighting against her, and so
Speaker 2: is Huang too, Like what is going to happen? They're
Speaker 2: all fighting and Huang's like, she's not going to confess.
Speaker 2: So profile the profiler, she staged the crime scene and
Speaker 2: inserted herself in an investigation and kept a trophy. She
Speaker 2: is bad, oh god? And also how did she even
Speaker 2: find him? So Huang's like, she found more info about
Speaker 2: him that she didn't put into the profile, and all
Speaker 2: the jurisdictions didn't share info with each other. So it's
Speaker 2: like so many secrets. It's so sad, like it's really appalling.
Speaker 2: But yeah, so she was keeping all this information for
Speaker 2: herself to like do some sort of revenge for her
Speaker 2: Tillman guy, and was hindering the investigation and the long
Speaker 2: and like the big picture because she didn't put the
Speaker 2: info into the profile. Did she keep the gun? Question question?
Speaker 2: Question Mark Benson goes, wait, does Tillman have guns? Maybe
Speaker 2: there are more guns. So they show up to Tillman's
Speaker 2: old place and the widower is there, so maybe she
Speaker 2: knows something about the guns.
Speaker 3: She right away when.
Speaker 2: Asked about the gun, is like, what is this about
Speaker 2: my girl, Lauren Cooper?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I gave the gun to Lauren as a keep skate,
Speaker 2: as a keepsake because I don't like having guns in
Speaker 2: the house. And they keep trying to get information out
Speaker 2: of her, and she goes, I'm not giving a statement,
Speaker 2: I'm not cooperating. I love Lauren, so go fuck yourself.
Speaker 2: And she's not gonna lie, but she's not gonna help
Speaker 2: put her away, so godspeed, get the fuck out of here,
Speaker 2: keep it moving. Benson's like, oh, we need a hurry
Speaker 2: up because obviously she's calling her right now and like
Speaker 2: filling her in. So, since Tilman used the same gun
Speaker 2: to kill himself, the casings are matched. So like the
Speaker 2: casing from the bullet from the gun that Tillman committed
Speaker 2: suicide matches the casings found on the crime scene.
Speaker 1: So finally ballistics, right, Yeah, there's like a full ballistics report.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's what the case. Ballistics are the casings
Speaker 2: about the bullets.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's also like the striations that come out
Speaker 1: of the gun and stuff. But yeah, I took forensics
Speaker 1: chemistry in college.
Speaker 3: So did you really?
Speaker 5: I know?
Speaker 3: Two things? Yeah, what else do you know? Nothing? Sublimination
Speaker 3: of fingerprints? We did that.
Speaker 1: We did a sublimination thing where you use this gas
Speaker 1: to make fingerprints show up on soda cans.
Speaker 2: I can't believe you've never met in our personal friendship
Speaker 2: or on the show that you took up forensic psychology
Speaker 2: class when we've been doing this podcast for months.
Speaker 3: Do you know what?
Speaker 1: I don't know why I haven't brought it up. And
Speaker 1: it was really hard. It was a lot harder that
Speaker 1: I thought it was going to be that class.
Speaker 2: That's how I felt about food science, really hard pectans. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I was like, I thought this was a nutrition like
Speaker 2: I don't know what. I don't need to know how
Speaker 2: molecule's form chicken, I know.
Speaker 1: I was like, are we just going to watch CSI
Speaker 1: And no, it was like a lot harder and involved experiments.
Speaker 3: Well, see if.
Speaker 1: You can find any of your old information, okay, any
Speaker 1: old notebooks this is to say information.
Speaker 3: Hopefully the listeners will let you know how pissed they are.
Speaker 2: Hopefully there's pissed, as I am never mentioned it I.
Speaker 1: Think it was sophomore year. Anyway, go on, are you
Speaker 1: calling your own self old? Did you just read yourself?
Speaker 2: So Benson and Lake enter the apartment and listen, baby girl, Erica,
Speaker 2: she's sitting, she's ready, She's at a desk with her
Speaker 2: hair pulled tight, pulled back forever, she'll never change. And
Speaker 2: then on the desk, clean ass desk, there's a badge
Speaker 2: and a gun on the table.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So Benson asks, where is Tilman's gun? And she says,
Speaker 2: in many pieces all over the city.
Speaker 3: Which I love. Why has no one else gotten rid
Speaker 3: of a weapon like this?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: There, I don't know, I've never seen it. Thought of
Speaker 3: that before.
Speaker 1: Because of this episode, I thought, if I ever, like
Speaker 1: you know, when I'm constantly planning a crime in my head,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I would leave evidence in pieces all over
Speaker 1: the city, like if I had something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just can't believe it, but it's like the
Speaker 2: best way, Yes, stick one thing over here, over here,
Speaker 2: over here, I mean the city is busy, Like, you
Speaker 2: probably can't do this in you know, a tiny town
Speaker 2: in Iowa.
Speaker 3: But New York.
Speaker 2: He can hide a gun everywhere. I bet you can
Speaker 2: do it in eye one. My bad Okay, everyone could
Speaker 2: hide their murder weapons. You can hide a gun too.
Speaker 3: She said she didn't need it anymore. She's like, listen,
Speaker 3: I'm going to jail. Are you happy?
Speaker 1: And Benson goes, no, I would have been happy collaring
Speaker 1: the son of a bitch with you that killed twenty
Speaker 1: four women. I thought we were friends.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that wouldn't have satisfied her at all, Like
Speaker 2: she needed to kill this guy for herself.
Speaker 3: So, but Benson's great at police work.
Speaker 2: She takes the gun from the desk, hands it to
Speaker 2: Chester so they feel safe.
Speaker 3: Cooper's like, okay, stop.
Speaker 2: Doing this game, like you know you want to kill
Speaker 2: all these assholes, and Benson goes, no, I have too
Speaker 2: much to lose and we lost a victim, and Cooper goes,
Speaker 2: I did everything I could to save her. Even after
Speaker 2: she put the gun to like the woodsman's head, she
Speaker 2: didn't give up, and like she tried and he wouldn't
Speaker 2: give anything up. So she killed his dumbass and then
Speaker 2: sent the email to help find her. She goes, you
Speaker 2: have to believe me, you have to believe me. But
Speaker 2: to me, it's like if she just said, listen, there
Speaker 2: was a scuffle I caught him. I killed him. Let's
Speaker 2: get to it. Would she have gotten in trouble? Like
Speaker 2: if she came forward?
Speaker 3: I think, well, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think because of the way that she shot him
Speaker 1: in the back of the head, flushed to the head,
Speaker 1: it's like clear that she executed him and she couldn't
Speaker 1: really she couldn't really claim self defense.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but yeah, like it seems like that
Speaker 1: would have been the best thing to do.
Speaker 3: Be like I tried. He came at me, I shot him,
Speaker 3: you know. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Benson says, listen, I can't condone what you did, but
Speaker 2: I understand it. Twenty four women are dead, so the
Speaker 2: DA is going to go easy on you, and Cooper responds,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I can't, and Benson says, just take the deal,
Speaker 2: and Cooper goes no, because those who fight monsters should
Speaker 2: make damn sure they don't become one. Quickly gun from
Speaker 2: behind her back, she kills herself, shoots herself in the
Speaker 2: fucking head.
Speaker 1: It's so fuck This scene is so crazy and fucked up.
Speaker 3: And Benson fully crime screens.
Speaker 2: This is a very intense performance, Like I I want
Speaker 2: to know everything about this scene. They really bring the
Speaker 2: best out of each other. But yeah, I've never seen Benson.
Speaker 2: I have, but Benson really is emotional here. It's a
Speaker 2: stellar performance. She walks away, she's breathing really hard, she's
Speaker 2: crying and is so upset, and I think there's even
Speaker 2: more deepness to it because she really thought that, like
Speaker 2: this was going to be her girl, you know.
Speaker 3: A best friend forever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and saw a lot of herself in it and
Speaker 2: probably also is like, am I going to become a monster?
Speaker 2: And we see, you know, pieces of that when she's
Speaker 2: beating the shit out of William Lewis.
Speaker 3: Even though he deserves everything that happens to him. But anyways,
Speaker 3: YadA YadA, yah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Cooper's dead, Benson's crying. Lake just looks back
Speaker 2: and is just like, oh geez, Like he looks at
Speaker 2: the blood like he's dexter, like he's really him in
Speaker 2: the blood.
Speaker 3: Have a moment.
Speaker 2: There's a caution tape montage. Benson is sad, there's a stretcher.
Speaker 2: Melinda walks in to console her and take evidence, and
Speaker 2: then Benson has shook as hell and it zooms in
Speaker 2: on her like in this Backstreet Boys style pose on
Speaker 2: the ground, like she's about to sing a love song.
Speaker 2: And if you know the Backstreet Boys music video catalog,
Speaker 2: you know exactly what I'm talking about. If you know
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, yeah, and then it's Dick Wolf.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that's scene though, that scene like Lake,
Speaker 1: it's just like it's such a quiet scene of just
Speaker 1: them talking and then suddenly Lake is like gone, and
Speaker 1: like it's like and like it's so fast, and Olivia's
Speaker 1: scream is like the editor, I have to give the
Speaker 1: editor props there because it just goes so fast and
Speaker 1: and oh well, I also wonder how much she had
Speaker 1: to practice taking the gun out from behind her back
Speaker 1: so faster if that.
Speaker 2: Was a body double or something. But emotion that's like
Speaker 2: pretty hard too.
Speaker 3: So that's that. Yeah, well it's not getting any better.
Speaker 1: I got to tell you what the real crime, So
Speaker 1: stick around and we'll be back to try traumatize you,
Speaker 1: all right. So yeah, not like you ever really need
Speaker 1: a trigger warning, but this episode is this episode, sorry,
Speaker 1: this episode of real life is very very graphic and
Speaker 1: fucked up. So if you don't want to hear about it,
Speaker 1: maybe you want to fast forward, skip around, have your
Speaker 1: hand ready on that forward thirty button.
Speaker 3: Whatever.
Speaker 1: Okay, So this episode, as listed on some websites, is
Speaker 1: kind of based on two crimes, but like the first
Speaker 1: one's very not important. Like, so I'm just going to
Speaker 1: really quickly tell you about one very tenuously connected crime
Speaker 1: is the case of Todd Alan Reid, who was known
Speaker 1: as the Forest Park Killer. So I think that's like
Speaker 1: where the Woodsman, that's like the only kind of similarity,
Speaker 1: and that this man he's called a serial killer because
Speaker 1: he had three victims, but he raped and strangled three
Speaker 1: homeless women in Portland or in between April and June
Speaker 1: of ninety nine, dumped their bodies in a forest park preserve,
Speaker 1: and then he was like found very quickly, convicted very quickly.
Speaker 3: And received three terms of life.
Speaker 1: And there's really not that much in common except the nicknames,
Speaker 1: and like the dumping in a park is similar, I guess.
Speaker 3: And then I did think one interesting thing.
Speaker 1: About this crime that I thought you would like to Lisa,
Speaker 1: is that one of the ways that he was caught
Speaker 1: was a female cop went undercover as a sex worker
Speaker 1: to draw him out. And we always love to see it,
Speaker 1: you know, yes, an a fun little you know, one
Speaker 1: of the things we talked about on Jensen and holes
Speaker 1: is that we love an undercover female cop. So the
Speaker 1: more closely linked case is the case of David Parker Ray,
Speaker 1: who is known as the Toy Box Killer. And this
Speaker 1: is a very very scary person no surprise. Ray had
Speaker 1: a fucked up childhood. He and his younger sister Peggy
Speaker 1: lived with their disciplinarian grandfather, and occasionally their father, who
Speaker 1: was a violent alcoholic, would visit and would bring Ray
Speaker 1: sadomasochistic pornography, so that obviously shaped his view of women
Speaker 1: and sex from a young age. He was bullied in
Speaker 1: school like everybody, he had sexual fantasies of raping, torturing,
Speaker 1: and murdered murdering women that developed.
Speaker 3: In his teenage years.
Speaker 1: His sister would find these stato masochistic drawings that he did,
Speaker 1: as well as pornographic photographs of bondage and stuff like
Speaker 1: that which is not in and of itself like something
Speaker 1: that denotes a serial killer. But I think all combine
Speaker 1: these things contributed to a very very disturbed person. Ray
Speaker 1: was married and divorced four times and had two children,
Speaker 1: including a daughter named Jesse and we will find out
Speaker 1: more about her later. Ray was living in Truther Consequences,
Speaker 1: New Mexico. Have you ever heard of that place, Lisa,
Speaker 1: It's a fun name. Truther or Consequences is one of
Speaker 1: these places that has a strange name.
Speaker 3: It's in New Mexico.
Speaker 1: He was working as a mechanic and a park ranger.
Speaker 1: Very well, I want to know who named like that's
Speaker 1: not even a name. Those are just two things.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know why it's called Truther Consequences, but it's
Speaker 1: like it's on a list of interesting town names or whatever.
Speaker 3: For the US.
Speaker 1: Ray had a truck trailer that he outfitted as a
Speaker 1: torture chamber. He soundproofed it and set it up with
Speaker 1: a ton of devices used for sexual torture, and he
Speaker 1: called it his toy box. So this is disturbing. But
Speaker 1: some of the things found inside the toy box were whips, chains, pulleys, straps, clamps, legs,
Speaker 1: spreader bars, surgical blades, electric shock machines, saws, sex toys, syringes,
Speaker 1: and detailed diagrams showing ways of inflicting pain, as well
Speaker 1: as a homemade electrical generator used for torture. A mirror
Speaker 1: was mounted on the ceiling above the obstectric table where
Speaker 1: he strapped his victims, because he wanted his victims to
Speaker 1: see everything he was doing to them.
Speaker 3: Oh, this is like.
Speaker 1: How sometimes there's a mirror in the delivery room so
Speaker 1: you can like see yourself giving birth. And I don't
Speaker 1: know who would want to do that.
Speaker 3: That's so funny.
Speaker 2: That's where your brain wather' be, like, you know, sometimes
Speaker 2: it's fine, there were a mirror on top of your
Speaker 2: bed in a hotel room.
Speaker 3: I went to giving birth.
Speaker 1: Yeah, nature's torture, the closest Yeah, the closest form of
Speaker 1: torture that's happened to me.
Speaker 3: And this is so so fucked up.
Speaker 1: But he had this wooden contraption he would put his
Speaker 1: victims in that would bend him them over and immobilize
Speaker 1: them so that he could rape them.
Speaker 3: And he would have and it said, and have other
Speaker 3: friends rape them and have dogs rape them.
Speaker 1: It says as well, I'm so like horrified by this.
Speaker 2: It's like they so he had friends come to the
Speaker 2: torture chamber and think nothing of it.
Speaker 1: I think it's people that like you'll find out I'll
Speaker 1: tell you in a second. But he had a mail
Speaker 1: accomplice at one point got it so that man was
Speaker 1: probably helping too, and I don't know. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that it's possible. He had friends that were like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is a sex worker. He's paying her for this
Speaker 1: or something like that. I have no idea she's screaming
Speaker 1: in torture like that. Yeah, no, it's beyond fucked it's
Speaker 1: so it's awful. He had an audio tape recording of
Speaker 1: his voice that he played for victims whenever they regained consciousness,
Speaker 1: detailing all the fucked up shit he was going to
Speaker 1: do to them.
Speaker 3: When he was.
Speaker 1: Eventually captured, authorities found his journal where he kept meticulous
Speaker 1: records detailing the victims that he had abducted.
Speaker 3: And what he had done to them.
Speaker 1: And there were dozens of entries, but there were no names,
Speaker 1: only dates and the numbers of times he tortured the
Speaker 1: victims and like what he did. Basically, he would kidnap
Speaker 1: five to six women a year, hold them captive for
Speaker 1: around three to four months. He often had accomplices, such
Speaker 1: as women he was dating and even his own.
Speaker 3: Daughter, Jesse.
Speaker 1: She was one of his accomplices that would help him
Speaker 1: actually lure victims. He also had an accomplice named Dennis
Speaker 1: Roy Yancy, so when he was finished with a victim,
Speaker 1: he would either kill them or drug them with barbituates
Speaker 1: to induce amnesia, and then just like abandon them on
Speaker 1: the side of the road. So in one of the
Speaker 1: tape recordings of him that they found, he is telling
Speaker 1: one of his victims that the drugs are sodium pentathol
Speaker 1: and phenobarbital. So he was basically just trying to induce
Speaker 1: amnesia or like make people think that they dreamed what
Speaker 1: happens to them, or I don't even know. So in
Speaker 1: March of nineteen ninety nine, Cynthia Vigil, a sex worker,
Speaker 1: was in a parking lot in Albuquerque, which is hours
Speaker 1: away from Truth or Consequences, when she was approached by
Speaker 1: Ray posing as an undercover police officer and he told
Speaker 1: her that she was under arrest and handcuffed her. She
Speaker 1: tried to fight back and out of nowhere, his girlfriend
Speaker 1: named Cindy Hendy, which actually Cindy is short for Cynthia.
Speaker 3: They had the same name, which is creepy.
Speaker 1: Cindy Hendy showed up and shocked Cynthia with a cattle
Speaker 1: prod and that's when they got her into the car,
Speaker 1: drove her to this trailer, this toy box, where she
Speaker 1: was tasered, drug blindfolded, and chained to a bed. Then
Speaker 1: he played his instruction tape, which is his voice saying,
Speaker 1: quote unquote, Okay, bitch, we both know what you've been
Speaker 1: brought here for. I'm going to use you for a
Speaker 1: sex slave, and it's going to be painful as hell.
Speaker 1: That's the way I want it to be.
Speaker 3: End quote. So so scary.
Speaker 1: Three days later, she waited until Ray had gone to work,
Speaker 1: and then she found the keys. The keys were just
Speaker 1: like left on a table that she could reach, and
Speaker 1: she unlocked her chains. Out why she sounds like, well,
Speaker 1: she was there with Cindy. Cindy Hendy, this girlfriend was
Speaker 1: supposed to be watching her, so I don't know if
Speaker 1: he paid attention to where he left the keys, because
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, I've got someone watching her.
Speaker 3: I don't know. It seems nuts.
Speaker 1: Maybe she figured out a way to like move a
Speaker 1: table closer when Cindy wasn't watching. I don't know, but
Speaker 1: she noticed Vigil trying to escape, and a fight ensued.
Speaker 1: Hendy tried to stab She broke a lamp over Cynthia
Speaker 1: Vigil's head, and she stabbed her with an ice pick,
Speaker 1: but then Vigil got the ice pick back from her
Speaker 1: and stabbed her in the neck with an ice pick.
Speaker 3: Fucking yeah, and she escaped.
Speaker 1: She escaped completely naked, wearing only the iron slave collar
Speaker 1: and padlocked chains that were like around her, and she
Speaker 1: ran to the road looking for help, which she got
Speaker 1: from a nearby homeowner who took her in, comforted her,
Speaker 1: called the police, and her escape obviously led officials to
Speaker 1: the trailer and instigated the capture of Ray and his accomplices.
Speaker 1: Police stopped Ray and Hendy, they found them. Ray was
Speaker 1: taken to jail, and after the publicity surrounding the arrest,
Speaker 1: another victim, Angelica Montano, came forward. Angelica said that Cindy Hendy,
Speaker 1: the same woman girlfriend of Ray's, had invited her over
Speaker 1: to Ray's house, where the couple then repeatedly raped and
Speaker 1: tortured her over the course of four days. She was
Speaker 1: convinced they were going to kill her, and she begged
Speaker 1: for her life and told them she had a young child,
Speaker 1: which seemed to touch the woman, So I guess that's
Speaker 1: how they let her go. And she was picked up
Speaker 1: while hitchhiking by an off duty deputy and he thought
Speaker 1: her story was so nuts that he didn't believe her,
Speaker 1: So there's another police officer not believing someone.
Speaker 3: Ray had a.
Speaker 1: Video that they found when they searched his place of
Speaker 1: a woman named Kelly Garrett, which dated from nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 3: This is nuts.
Speaker 1: Garrett was found alive in Colorado after police identified a
Speaker 1: tattoo on her ankle. She testified that she'd gotten too
Speaker 1: a fight with her husband and decided to spend the
Speaker 1: night playing pool with friends. When she's out playing pool,
Speaker 1: she meets Jesse Ray's daughter, who knew Garrett. They meet up,
Speaker 1: then she takes her to the Blue Water Saloon and
Speaker 1: true her consequences, then drugs the beer she's drinking, and
Speaker 1: Garrett remembers walking out to the parking lot and suffered
Speaker 1: a blow from behind which knocked her unconscious. Then Ray
Speaker 1: took her back to the trailer, attached a dog collar
Speaker 1: and a leash to her neck, and she woke up
Speaker 1: and blacked out several times during the two days of
Speaker 1: torture and drugging. So then when he was getting rid
Speaker 1: of Kelly, he slashed her throat open and thought that
Speaker 1: he had killed her, and then dumped her on the
Speaker 1: side of the road, and she actually survived and she
Speaker 1: was treated for her injuries at a local clinic. Her
Speaker 1: husband didn't believe her story, The police did not believe
Speaker 1: her story. Her husband thought that she had just been
Speaker 1: cheating on him the night she was attacked, and he
Speaker 1: ended up like divorcing her, And since she was completely
Speaker 1: unable to remember what happened to her, I think because
Speaker 1: of all the drugging, she never reported the incident.
Speaker 3: And that happened to nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 1: Which was three years before Vigil was abducted, and who
Speaker 1: knows how many girls in between. It's just like, when
Speaker 1: the story is so crazy, wouldn't that be reason to
Speaker 1: be like, oh, no, one could make this up, Like
Speaker 1: I the fuck everybody? Yeah, it's so Yeah, it's infuriating,
Speaker 1: and Jesus, I don't know why there wouldn't be at
Speaker 1: least an investigation. But I mean maybe because I'm not
Speaker 1: trying to play devil's advocate for the cops at all.
Speaker 1: But I'm like, maybe because they're drugged that their details
Speaker 1: don't make as much sense or something, and yeah, but
Speaker 1: that's the points. Girls on fucking drugs.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if someone is drugged or they're on drugs, it
Speaker 2: does not negate what happens to me there is nurse. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I just don't think there's any sort of excuse or
Speaker 2: reasoning for a cop not to investigate an active like.
Speaker 1: Complaint and something so fucked up like someone kept you
Speaker 1: hostage for days, Like, I just don't think.
Speaker 2: Like, wouldn't it be better to just make sure it's fake, Like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know what, I'm gonna dot my eyes, cross my
Speaker 2: t's and make sure there's not a torture fucking trailer
Speaker 2: in my town.
Speaker 3: Right. Oh, this bitches on drugs? Okay, what? Yeah, I
Speaker 3: guess why a lot of victims are on drugs.
Speaker 2: I don't think like cop people are listening to us anymore.
Speaker 2: They've made it clear they're not a fan of what
Speaker 2: we say. But it's like, if you are someone that
Speaker 2: it does not see what's happening, Like, how do you
Speaker 2: listen to our podcast case after case hear how terrible
Speaker 2: police are from state to state in Canada.
Speaker 3: We've done crimes all over and it's just like, yeah,
Speaker 3: they don't investigate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's it's while that multiple of these women
Speaker 1: were just basically denied by the cops, not even just
Speaker 1: just one woman Kelly, Like they didn't believe Angelica Montano either,
Speaker 1: Like luckily they believed fucking Cynthia because she wandered into
Speaker 1: traffic and fucking with a slave caller on her And
Speaker 1: then there you can kind of deduce that she's telling
Speaker 1: the truth, that something.
Speaker 3: Fucked up happened to her.
Speaker 2: I'm sure they even talked about like maybe she liked that, yeah,
Speaker 2: and now she's just regretting it, yeah.
Speaker 1: Because she's a sex worker. So there's like, you know,
Speaker 1: they love to deny sex workers.
Speaker 3: There's truth.
Speaker 1: Now aside from Cindy Hendy and the daughter Jesse. That's
Speaker 1: when they discover Dennis Yancey as an accomplice. Yancey admitted
Speaker 1: to strangling his former girlfriend Marie Parker after Ray had
Speaker 1: kidnapped and tortured her, but he claimed Ray made him
Speaker 1: do it and after that murder. Ray also admitted to
Speaker 1: having accomplice, allegedly having accomplice named Billy Bowers, a previous
Speaker 1: business partner who murdered but the FBI sent hundreds of
Speaker 1: agents to examine raised property and surroundings, and no identifiable
Speaker 1: human remains were found, but it's thought commonly that he
Speaker 1: killed at least fourteen women, but like I also read
Speaker 1: in an article that he knew how to sort of.
Speaker 1: I read it as evisceraate a body so that it
Speaker 1: would sink to the bottom of a lake, like so
Speaker 1: that there's ways that you can make it so that
Speaker 1: the body won't pop back up and stuff. And the
Speaker 1: lake that was near where he lived was like very
Speaker 1: very deep, so it's possible that they were there. I mean,
Speaker 1: they did drown. They did like search to lake at
Speaker 1: one point, but there's parts where it's super super deep.
Speaker 1: So I don't know how he got rid of these bodies,
Speaker 1: but there's no fucking way.
Speaker 3: This guy is not a murderer and has not murdered people.
Speaker 1: And they said one woman remained uncertain that her recollections
Speaker 1: of abuse were anything but nightmares until she was contacted
Speaker 1: by the FBI, and after questioning.
Speaker 3: She remembered more and more, which is crazy.
Speaker 1: That's kind of like what happened in uh smut, where
Speaker 1: like I kind of remember that this man raped me,
Speaker 1: but the scopolamine situation stopped them from creating new memories.
Speaker 1: So basically Ray's attacks were separated into three trials. I
Speaker 1: don't really understand why it's not clear why they separated
Speaker 1: him into the into all these trials instead of just
Speaker 1: trying him for all three at once. But for Cynthia
Speaker 1: Vigil the woman who escaped, at first there was a
Speaker 1: mistrial and then there was a retrial, and with the
Speaker 1: retrial he was convicted on all twelve counts. Angelica Montano
Speaker 1: sadly died before her trial and there was no conviction,
Speaker 1: and then Kelly Garrett Ray agreed to a plea bargain
Speaker 1: so that actually didn't have to go to trial either way.
Speaker 1: Ray was sentenced in two thousand and one to two
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty four years in prison in two thousand
Speaker 1: and one. In two thousand and two, he told the
Speaker 1: FBI he wanted to cooperate and claimed to have abducted
Speaker 1: about forty women and was like, come, come question me,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you everything. So they arranged to have him
Speaker 1: questioned by the state police on May twenty eight and two.
Speaker 1: He was taken to Lee County Correctional Facility in Hobbes,
Speaker 1: New Mexico, but died of a heart attack before the
Speaker 1: interrogation took place. So this motherfucker only was in jail
Speaker 1: for one year for all these crimes and then died
Speaker 1: of a heart attack before he could give them all
Speaker 1: this information that would have given closure to probably tons
Speaker 1: of people that are missing their loved ones that have
Speaker 1: gone missing. So so fucked up and unfair. His daughter,
Speaker 1: Jesse Ray, was tried for kidnapping, got two and a
Speaker 1: half years in prison in five years of probation. That
Speaker 1: I think that's sort of nuts that that's what she
Speaker 1: got when she lured people. Maybe she was able to prove,
Speaker 1: like prove that she was abused and under his control too,
Speaker 1: or something like.
Speaker 3: I don't know. This seems like so fucking not a
Speaker 3: long time in prison for sure.
Speaker 1: Dennis Roy Yancey was convicted of the strangulation murder of
Speaker 1: Marie Parker. He served eleven years in prison and then
Speaker 1: was released on parole.
Speaker 3: I don't know why.
Speaker 1: And he violated his parol and went back to serve
Speaker 1: the rest of his original scent until this year twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one. So I think Dennis Yancy is either out
Speaker 1: or about to be out. In two thousand, Cindy Hendy,
Speaker 1: who was his accomplished girlfriend, testified against him and received
Speaker 1: a sentence of thirty six years for her crimes. She
Speaker 1: was scheduled to get parole in twenty seventeen, and she
Speaker 1: actually was kept an extra two years in jail and
Speaker 1: was released in twenty nineteen after serving two years of
Speaker 1: her parole in prison. I didn't know you could serve
Speaker 1: parole in prison, but.
Speaker 2: This is this kind of sentencing and what's going on
Speaker 2: here is what makes me so mad about the Nashawn
Speaker 2: Williams case.
Speaker 3: Again.
Speaker 2: You know, like we have this person who did bad
Speaker 2: things obviously stats stray, rape and like not telling me.
Speaker 2: But it's like this man strangled his girlfriend to death
Speaker 2: and got eleven years.
Speaker 3: And then was allowed back out onto those streets. But
Speaker 3: Nashawn Williams is being held indefinitely.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's why that case, Like, it's so fucked up.
Speaker 1: This is horrifying. Yeah, this case is super super fucked up.
Speaker 1: But it's clear that the episode got like a lot
Speaker 1: of the ideas for this, like torture room of the Woodsman,
Speaker 1: from this killer, the toy box killer.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I'm glad they didn't get their police work
Speaker 2: ideas from here because they just would have said, nah, no, thanks, well,
Speaker 2: stay fund. We do have a palette cleaning cleansing. We
Speaker 2: have an amazing guest.
Speaker 1: I would say, a huge get I'm excited, so stay tuned.
Speaker 2: Today's guest is a really huge moment in my life.
Speaker 2: I would say, I was really excited that we got her.
Speaker 3: That's a clue. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You guys, though, may know her from the movie Traffic
Speaker 1: Swim Fan, the Banger Sisters, or as Julia Braverman Graham
Speaker 1: on the show Parenthood. You can catch her coming up
Speaker 1: on the Disney Plus movie Cheaper by the Dozen coming
Speaker 1: out next year. It's a remake, but if you watch
Speaker 1: today's episode, you know her as special Agent Lauren Cooper.
Speaker 1: Please dive into our chat with the legendary Erica Christensen.
Speaker 2: So I'm a huge parent her person. I'm a Braverman fanatic.
Speaker 2: I watched it all well, I didn't watch the last
Speaker 2: few episodes because I knew what was going to happen
Speaker 2: and I wasn't ready for it.
Speaker 1: So I still think it and yeah, I couldn't take it.
Speaker 1: And so I just can't believe we're talking to you.
Speaker 2: But in terms of Parenthood, you know, Mae Whitman also
Speaker 2: did an svo.
Speaker 4: Yes, I heard about that, you know what.
Speaker 5: I haven't seen that one either, but they I feel
Speaker 5: like mine and hers always replay at the same time,
Speaker 5: like the same night.
Speaker 1: Maybe they're doing a Parenthood marathon. People do they do that?
Speaker 5: Yeah, maybe they're doing like cheeky little ludge to us.
Speaker 2: Yes, So I guess we'll start from the beginning. We're
Speaker 2: assuming this was an offer only, no auditions.
Speaker 4: Wait, that's so funny, because yes it was.
Speaker 5: But I have like a weird thing about that because
Speaker 5: when I audition and I get a job, then I like,
Speaker 5: I feel like I've earned it, you know, obviously they
Speaker 5: hired me for a reason, and I know what I'm
Speaker 5: doing with this character and everything, and we're good to go.
Speaker 5: And sometimes when it's an offer only. I've talked to
Speaker 5: Michael Rosenbaum about this two on his podcast, where we're like, yeah,
Speaker 5: sometimes it takes you a second to be like, wait,
Speaker 5: what am I do? I know what I'm doing here,
Speaker 5: and it's not like you can just play yourself or
Speaker 5: some idea like no, okay, so this chick is an
Speaker 5: FBI agent.
Speaker 4: I'm like cool. I'm literally like, how many years of school.
Speaker 3: Do you have to do?
Speaker 6: Like?
Speaker 4: And and when I.
Speaker 5: Got to set too, they were like, oh, yeah, you're fourteen,
Speaker 5: And I was like torn between the.
Speaker 4: Fact that that is, I think a compliment, but also
Speaker 4: what am I? Am I right for this role? You know,
Speaker 4: like can I pull this off?
Speaker 3: You pulled it off, you definitely did.
Speaker 5: I remember. I remember also getting getting shit like on
Speaker 5: the first day, like are you chewing gum? And I
Speaker 5: was like no, I'm uh no, I guess I'm like
Speaker 5: nervously like cheering on my tongue.
Speaker 4: Okay, don't do that. Okay, that actually was the character.
Speaker 5: Choice, but that one's gonna go cool cool.
Speaker 2: And I'm sure like the severe ponytail and the type
Speaker 2: thing got you more into character, and like the outfits too,
Speaker 2: because those are some like pulled back butns.
Speaker 5: Yes, and the weight of like having a gun and
Speaker 5: even just a badge on my belt was different.
Speaker 3: I was like, whoa, now your badge was so cool.
Speaker 2: It was we talked about it because it was I've
Speaker 2: never seen a badge on an outfeel like that was
Speaker 2: like sideways, it was like slipped on in a really
Speaker 2: cool way. So, yeah, you were the only one who
Speaker 2: had a side badge. And did you know Marishka anyone
Speaker 2: from the the crew.
Speaker 4: No, I've never met anyone.
Speaker 3: Wow. Wow.
Speaker 4: She was so.
Speaker 5: Comfortable there obviously, and she knew what she was doing,
Speaker 5: so she was so stable, you know, and she I
Speaker 5: think saw me kind of having these moments of like what, okay,
Speaker 5: abandoned my character.
Speaker 4: Note cool, I'm too young for this role. Okay, awesome,
Speaker 4: let's do this.
Speaker 5: You know, like found me being like wow, all right,
Speaker 5: new to the show, and she just like invited me, like, oh,
Speaker 5: come to my come to my room at lunch or something,
Speaker 5: and we sat and chatted and she was so kind
Speaker 5: and so.
Speaker 4: Just gracious about about having me there and helped me
Speaker 4: feel more comfortable. It was awesome.
Speaker 2: You brought out really good performances in each other. It
Speaker 2: seems like, I mean, you guys really had an awesome
Speaker 2: back and forth.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and obviously with the final the the climax of
Speaker 5: the show there it was. It was so cool and
Speaker 5: so and so emotionally charged for us.
Speaker 2: Did you have to train how to get the gun
Speaker 2: from behind that fast or was that a double or what?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 3: That was fast fast move?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 5: Oh, it was that was just me I think because
Speaker 5: that since that was all you were really going to
Speaker 5: see was the gun coming up, they were just like, great,
Speaker 5: just get the gun up.
Speaker 1: Well, that whole episode honestly was very felt a little
Speaker 1: bit more like a movie than the regular, like inn
Speaker 1: a regular episode of the show. Like, I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: obsessed with Silence of the Lambs, so I draw a
Speaker 1: lot of parallels. But I felt like obviously the young
Speaker 1: FBI agent and the serial killer and all this was,
Speaker 1: you know, it definitely gave me the Silence of the
Speaker 1: Lamb's vibe, and I was, yeah, I don't know what
Speaker 1: made it such a different feel to the episode, Maybe
Speaker 1: just because there was this like second, you were the
Speaker 1: secondary character that was just alongside Mersca the whole time,
Speaker 1: But how did you.
Speaker 3: Get Like how did what?
Speaker 1: I mean, I know you said you like looked up
Speaker 1: how long it takes to like go to school to
Speaker 1: be an FBI egent and stuff like that. But like
Speaker 1: she was so intense and she's like from the foster
Speaker 1: care system and has this like hard exterior like how
Speaker 1: did you? But then also is very emotionally moved by
Speaker 1: all the torture that she's seeing, So like, how did you?
Speaker 3: I don't know, how'd you do that? What's my question?
Speaker 4: Good question?
Speaker 5: I It's funny because from the moment you meet her,
Speaker 5: she's already having to put up this deceitful front, yes,
Speaker 5: but at the same time, all of her emotions are
Speaker 5: so raw and so real, and but she's like trying
Speaker 5: to be a hard ass about it, right, I felt
Speaker 5: like the deceit of her just kind of being like,
Speaker 5: I need everybody to be on my team right now,
Speaker 5: just so we can get my mission done, even though
Speaker 5: it's not exactly they think they're kind of solving one
Speaker 5: aspect of it and I'm interested in another aspect of
Speaker 5: it because they don't know that I actually off to
Speaker 5: this guy. You know. That whole thing, I think is
Speaker 5: what was playing off of her feeling like, yes, I
Speaker 5: may look like I'm fourteen, but I have legitimate authority
Speaker 5: and I'm educated as hell, and so just don't mess.
Speaker 4: With me, like I actually know what the fuck I'm doing.
Speaker 4: And that was where.
Speaker 5: Marishka actually gave me an amazing piece of advice too.
Speaker 5: You know, sometimes you know something, but it takes someone
Speaker 5: expressing it, like when they actually articulate it in words.
Speaker 4: And you're like, yes, okay.
Speaker 5: And it was an acting tip with regards to this
Speaker 5: character who is a person of authority. She said, you know,
Speaker 5: when we're like questioning somebody and I've got a picture
Speaker 5: like have you seen this person? I was like shaking
Speaker 5: the photo because I was getting upset, and she was like,
Speaker 5: the power is in the stillness, and I was like,
Speaker 5: of course it is okay, So just literally don't be
Speaker 5: shaking the paper in the face of this person, hold
Speaker 5: up the picture and keep it there.
Speaker 4: And it was just like click. You know, it all
Speaker 4: makes sense.
Speaker 2: Were you ever scared on set, Like did that torture
Speaker 2: room look as scary as it does on the show
Speaker 2: or is it really much like this is a set
Speaker 2: and I know it, or was it scary and the
Speaker 2: video playing with the girl like did it bring up
Speaker 2: any scary feelings when you would leave set or being
Speaker 2: on that set?
Speaker 4: I don't think so.
Speaker 5: I think it's that's the benefit of like being on
Speaker 5: a set is you can look at something that would
Speaker 5: otherwise be terrifying and just like I guess you.
Speaker 4: Just know it's fake.
Speaker 6: It's like, you know, can you imagine if you had
Speaker 6: seen that footage that's on SVU and it was a documentary,
Speaker 6: it'll be so traumatic.
Speaker 4: Yeah, But just to have.
Speaker 5: That little bit like in the back of your mind
Speaker 5: of the context of like, oh, yeah, this is a
Speaker 5: show that I love and it's clearly done by actors,
Speaker 5: and it's it's based on true stories, but it's this
Speaker 5: is not really happening right now. That was my feeling.
Speaker 5: I was like, yeah, thisiss is fucked up, but I
Speaker 5: don't know a good story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I have a question about that scene where
Speaker 1: like Marishka is gonna first's first confronting you sort of
Speaker 1: with like the photos of you that kind of prove that.
Speaker 3: You're behind all of this.
Speaker 1: You're I don't know, the character's just so like playing chess,
Speaker 1: like okay, your move, Like what are you going to
Speaker 1: ask me?
Speaker 3: And I just like, did you guys like.
Speaker 1: Talk about that in advance or like what the vibe
Speaker 1: was going to be because it was really intense because
Speaker 1: you guys had had this like kind of like sweet
Speaker 1: like friendship almost like where even though you're an f
Speaker 1: agent and she's a cop, she's teaching you all these
Speaker 1: ways to.
Speaker 3: Deal with victims and stuff because you don't really do that.
Speaker 1: And then in that scene it was kind of like
Speaker 1: she's bummed because she really liked you, so like I
Speaker 1: kind of love that scene and I was just.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like thought that they were I feel like Olivia
Speaker 2: Benson was like, Oh, I've met my a friend. This
Speaker 2: is gonna be my bitch and the FBI and we're
Speaker 2: gonna like solve crimes together. Like that's part of the
Speaker 2: heartache I think at the.
Speaker 1: End too, where she was just like that's me or
Speaker 1: like that, yeah, they were the same.
Speaker 5: I don't know for real, And that's well, that's the
Speaker 5: whole that's ultimately the whole point is like, don't let
Speaker 5: this happen to you, because you live in this world
Speaker 5: and it can happen to you because when you're just
Speaker 5: too close to it.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 5: As far as that interrogation scene, what's interesting is that
Speaker 5: they both aside from what was really happening, they both
Speaker 5: genuinely connect and had hopes for the future of this friendship.
Speaker 5: You know, had she gotten away with it, that might
Speaker 5: have just been a nice friendship. You know, she's too
Speaker 5: Benson's too smart. You can't you can't actually like be
Speaker 5: friends with somebody that's going to discover what you've done.
Speaker 5: But yeah, but in the meantime for them to have
Speaker 5: really connected it and like, oh, here's here's a young
Speaker 5: smart girl. I see something of myself and her, and
Speaker 5: we're passionate and but she doesn't have the real you know,
Speaker 5: the like the street experience, and so all of.
Speaker 3: That was so nice.
Speaker 5: But I think I think what's interesting is just like
Speaker 5: the arrogance.
Speaker 4: Of all right, you caught me, but like prove it,
Speaker 4: you know, and yeah.
Speaker 5: You know what what what really happens now? Because I
Speaker 5: did what I thought was to justify thing, and then
Speaker 5: her conscience catches up with her clearly. But like they
Speaker 5: just that just you know when somebody, when somebody first
Speaker 5: starts to get caught, and they just dig their heels
Speaker 5: in and they.
Speaker 4: Like lie even harder.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's like yeah in real life when you
Speaker 1: watch interrogation, and yeah, they just dig in.
Speaker 3: You're right, They just at first they are like whoa,
Speaker 3: what are you talking about? And then within the hour
Speaker 3: they're like, okay, here's how I did it.
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, but it's all yeah, it's like you know,
Speaker 5: as far as the chess game, right, it's like prove
Speaker 5: that you're worthy, You're you're a worthy opponent here. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I'm not just gonna give it to you, like I'm
Speaker 5: smarter than you.
Speaker 4: You need to earn it here.
Speaker 3: That's so true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because an FBI is not going to come in
Speaker 1: and be like you got me? Like she is like,
Speaker 1: all right, show me what you got, like, lay your cards.
Speaker 3: Out on the table.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what do you get recognized the most from?
Speaker 2: Do people yell swim fan at you in the streets
Speaker 2: or what?
Speaker 3: Before?
Speaker 5: I think before Parenthood it was swim fan the most,
Speaker 5: and people would like.
Speaker 4: Across the boards. I don't know where.
Speaker 5: This phrasing came from, but people would be like, you're
Speaker 5: a bad girl. Okay, clearly that's that's thing with regards
Speaker 5: to Madison Bell, I guess, but cool.
Speaker 4: Nice to meet you.
Speaker 3: You're a bad girl. Yikes. Yeah, it does also sound
Speaker 3: like a little creepy.
Speaker 5: Yeah, like like a come on, yeah.
Speaker 4: I think Parenthood now would be the biggest thing.
Speaker 2: Swim fan changed everything because now that's that, like, that's
Speaker 2: a genre.
Speaker 4: To me.
Speaker 2: If I see something like it, I'm like, oh, it's
Speaker 2: a swim fan moment.
Speaker 4: Amazing.
Speaker 5: I didn't I didn't know that until recently. At that time,
Speaker 5: all teen movies were like romantic comedies or just kind
Speaker 5: of like straight up kookie comedies like American Pie.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and what's what's that movie with Rachel Lee Cook
Speaker 4: and Freddie Prince.
Speaker 3: You and she's all that yeah, I can't.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I feel like American Pie can't hardly wait. She's
Speaker 4: all that was like, it was really the vibe.
Speaker 5: And so to change things up so dramatically and be
Speaker 5: like this is now teen movies, Territory, Smith Fan and.
Speaker 6: A heist movie.
Speaker 5: I actually didn't realize how out of the box they
Speaker 5: were for the time, and I'm like, I'm newly appreciating
Speaker 5: them myself.
Speaker 4: I'm like, that's that's really cool. Yeah we did something.
Speaker 1: Well, I have one more, really really inane question that
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with anything, but I was looking
Speaker 1: you up and I was like, oh, her Twitter is
Speaker 1: Erica Jane, And I was like, do you know about
Speaker 1: Erica Jane Girre already the housewife of Beverly Hills.
Speaker 4: Oh no, I thought you were gonna ask me about
Speaker 4: Erica Jane the porn star.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, Well, look there's a couple of people.
Speaker 5: I did not know about, the real housewife of Beverly Hills.
Speaker 4: I a, maybe you should change my handle.
Speaker 3: Well, she's in the news right now.
Speaker 1: She's in the news right now because she's married to
Speaker 1: a huge lawyer and he's getting busted for embezzling. All
Speaker 1: these funds from like widows and orphan children and sit
Speaker 1: and stuff, and she is being like kind of dragged
Speaker 1: into it that maybe she knew, And I was like,
Speaker 1: people are so stupid on Twitter, Like people came for
Speaker 1: Rachel Ray when they meant to come for Rachel Roy
Speaker 1: after Beyonce made that song. So I was like, I
Speaker 1: wonder if people are coming for Erica Christiansen being like.
Speaker 3: You dumb bitch, you stole money from orphans and You're like,
Speaker 3: I'm in parenthood.
Speaker 1: Like I was just wondering, but clearly it hasn't been
Speaker 1: a problem for you on Twitter.
Speaker 3: I just thought it would be a fun nation with
Speaker 3: this porn star. It seems like, yeah, well listen.
Speaker 4: I mean I don't have my notifications on, but I
Speaker 4: mean I could do it.
Speaker 2: No, if you want to get into true crime on Hulu,
Speaker 2: there's a special on this housewife and lawyer the guy
Speaker 2: lawyer her well now ex husband. He is the lawyer
Speaker 2: that Aaron Brockovich works for. Like that's who it's based on,
Speaker 2: is this guy. And so he does these giant claim
Speaker 2: like a class slash. Yeah, and so it's like plain
Speaker 2: victims and burn victim and he stole like millions of
Speaker 2: dollars and then on the Housewives though she's buying chagalls
Speaker 2: and spends fifty thousand dollars a month on glam and
Speaker 2: so we are seeing the spending and the FBI took
Speaker 2: her shit and she's in a small house now and like,
Speaker 2: we don't know what's going to happen.
Speaker 5: But oh my god, that's so wild because at what
Speaker 5: point did she become complicit or was she super.
Speaker 4: Naive or like, you know, in the when when.
Speaker 5: The relationship started, were they young and she was just like, oh,
Speaker 5: he's or you know, she.
Speaker 4: Was super young and she was like he's so you know,
Speaker 4: grown and self made. Man, I don't know.
Speaker 3: That's so awful.
Speaker 4: It's just like.
Speaker 1: The brazenness, like you know that you're embezzling all this
Speaker 1: money and then you're like allowing your wife to go
Speaker 1: on reality television where you're going to be under a microscope.
Speaker 1: You're so confident you're not going to get caught that
Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, go parade our wealth on television. That's
Speaker 1: just like, to me, that's the audacity to the highest
Speaker 1: level that I can't even like believe.
Speaker 4: Did you did you? Did you see the last season
Speaker 4: of Bosh.
Speaker 1: Yes, she loves I love Bosh, thank you.
Speaker 4: I love we love La Stories too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love Bosh because it's in La. I mean
Speaker 3: I should watch La Stories. What is that?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 5: No, I just mean it as as draups like La Stories. Yeah,
Speaker 5: that's probably a thing too.
Speaker 4: But what's the other show? There's another? Is it another
Speaker 4: David Kelly show that's set in La? Oh? Oh oh Goliath?
Speaker 3: Oh I've never seen that.
Speaker 5: Now that that's the whole joke of that series is like,
Speaker 5: how is it winning Emmy's when no one has ever
Speaker 5: heard of this show that is the same source material,
Speaker 5: the same writers, source.
Speaker 4: Material as Bosh.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 4: You right.
Speaker 5: Those characters are half brothers and one's a cop and
Speaker 5: one's a lawyer before Bosh becomes ultimately a private investigator.
Speaker 5: But yeah, it's just it's just cool, kind of like
Speaker 5: underbelly of Hollywood, not Hollywood the industry lore.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Hollywood the place.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And yes it is on Amazon. I'm gonna watch it.
Speaker 1: You did it? Yes, yes, no, and then I'm going
Speaker 1: to be searching for La Stories for like ten days.
Speaker 3: That was incredible, Thank you, Erica.
Speaker 1: She was so cool and I wish you guys could
Speaker 1: have seen her. She's not aged since she was discovered,
Speaker 1: and she's so beautiful.
Speaker 3: But yeah, an amazing interview and I love her. I
Speaker 3: want to be friends. No, life is wild.
Speaker 2: I don't know when you think of these moments to
Speaker 2: be talking to her, it's like, really nuts.
Speaker 3: But let's get into our post worn.
Speaker 1: I don't know what we can say we fucking learned
Speaker 1: from this queer episode, because how many times are we
Speaker 1: going to be in a situation involving a serial?
Speaker 3: Do you know what I learned?
Speaker 2: Even if you escape a torture killer with bruises and
Speaker 2: marks and blood all over you, the cops still might
Speaker 2: not believe you.
Speaker 3: Right, So I learned that.
Speaker 2: I learned you could be fully naked and chained up
Speaker 2: and escape and the cops are like, are you sure
Speaker 2: you didn't do this to yourself?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: Are you sure you didn't got too drunk at a
Speaker 3: costume party? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I am not happy with some of the police work
Speaker 1: in this case, but I, you know, love this woman
Speaker 1: for fucking stabbing someone with an ice pick and escaping,
Speaker 1: Like women are so strong and resilient and can escape.
Speaker 3: What else? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I guess maybe escape rooms are more important than we
Speaker 2: thought they should rebrand instead of for fun. It's like, well,
Speaker 2: you can you survive? It's like training. Maybe I need
Speaker 2: some escape room training. I don't know what's going to happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, I just tried to joke about escape rooms
Speaker 1: last night at my show.
Speaker 3: Was it a fun night at the show?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, it was really good. When I first
Speaker 1: pulled up, there was only a few people there, and I.
Speaker 3: Was like, what happened in my show while I was away?
Speaker 4: Now?
Speaker 1: And then like by the end there was like seventy
Speaker 1: five people or it was great.
Speaker 3: There was a lot of people. It was really good.
Speaker 1: But I learned that even FBI agents think that they
Speaker 1: are too smart to be caught, Like I mean going
Speaker 1: into an internet cafe. First of all, are there still
Speaker 1: internet cafes?
Speaker 2: Oh there's gotta be Yeah, people need to be committing crimes.
Speaker 3: When I lived in Italy, this is how long ago
Speaker 3: it was, like there was no Wi Fi.
Speaker 1: I had to go to an internet cafe down the
Speaker 1: street to check my fucking email every week and just
Speaker 1: respond to my family and be like what's going on.
Speaker 1: I remember I was like in a fight with one
Speaker 1: of my Italian friends. We were just corresponding over email,
Speaker 1: and I was like, gotta go check and see if
Speaker 1: she's responded, like paying money to check my email. Can
Speaker 1: you guys imagine this was? Of course, back in nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy five, life was better.
Speaker 2: I hate being CONTs because, like you said, when I'm
Speaker 2: on my vacation mode, when I'm out and about, I'm
Speaker 2: not responding to anything, like I don't want to look,
Speaker 2: but it makes it see it's like, what the why
Speaker 2: didn't you respond to stuff?
Speaker 3: And it's like I don't like the expectation.
Speaker 1: That I have to I don't think anybody has that
Speaker 1: expectation of you.
Speaker 3: Good to know I feel about you're writing back. I
Speaker 3: don't think you're dead. I think you're enjoying yourself and
Speaker 3: you'll get back to me when you get back to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my cousin was her daughter's birthday, and then you know,
Speaker 2: I sent her a text and she sent me all
Speaker 2: these photos of the child and I didn't respond for days,
Speaker 2: and then I was like, oh my god, she loves
Speaker 2: polar bears. But like I did like seeing the pictures.
Speaker 2: But it's the drunk element too. When you're drunk, you're
Speaker 2: just not remembering what you responded to, what's going on?
Speaker 3: Who's texting and speaking of drunk?
Speaker 1: Get back to we had to stop the intro, but
Speaker 1: I want to know why you the other story about
Speaker 1: why you hate that girl?
Speaker 2: She oh, so then she said something, so there was
Speaker 2: like another whatever whatever led to this conversation. But she goes,
Speaker 2: I'm very observant, Like I notice things, and I'm people
Speaker 2: watching all the time, and I just like get people.
Speaker 2: And in my head, it's like you think you're the
Speaker 2: only person people watching. You think you're special. It's like
Speaker 2: someone thing that only one who has thoughts or something,
Speaker 2: or like I used to do a joke where I
Speaker 2: had a roommate who thought she was like a witch
Speaker 2: because she had deja vu, and it's like, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: we're all.
Speaker 3: In deja vu.
Speaker 2: We all like feel like, oh I made the right
Speaker 2: decision because of energy, Like we're all trying to be
Speaker 2: connected to the universe. But to also think that you
Speaker 2: are extra observant. While two comedians who truly communicate to
Speaker 2: strangers nightly and connect with human beings that you do
Speaker 2: not know and make them have an involuntary response, you're
Speaker 2: trying to tell me that you.
Speaker 3: Just know about people it's like it just it was wild. Also,
Speaker 3: are you observing that I hate you?
Speaker 1: Like she was she observing that you were like disdainful
Speaker 1: of her, Like clearly not.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: She just kept trying to talk well because she was
Speaker 2: someone that couldn't get tickets to the show because it
Speaker 2: was sold out, but came to the bar next door
Speaker 2: anyways to get a bite of him right to get
Speaker 2: but was judging and making fun of all the people
Speaker 2: that came to the show, but still trying to hang
Speaker 2: out with him. So she was very much like, I
Speaker 2: didn't go to the show, but it's like, no, you
Speaker 2: just sat at the bar next door waiting.
Speaker 1: For waiting for the show to let out, like a
Speaker 1: full desperado, okay, judging all these people.
Speaker 2: And then there was just like a situation where I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, I didn't get that vibe from that person.
Speaker 3: I felt a different thing.
Speaker 2: And she was like, well, I'm like really observant and
Speaker 2: I just really understand people in situations. And I was like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: now you're I bet you can't.
Speaker 1: I'm honestly dying for you to see her again on
Speaker 1: this trip because I want more.
Speaker 3: I want more of this. Oh, I bet you I
Speaker 3: mean it is.
Speaker 2: It is funny being a nop, Like you just see
Speaker 2: humanity in like a really funny way. Like that's why
Speaker 2: famous people are so fucked. People are frauds. Like we
Speaker 2: met this girl at the pool and like she didn't
Speaker 2: care and then suddenly started following me in Instagram and
Speaker 2: change the way she treated me fully, right, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, all of a sudden it was like, oh,
Speaker 2: what's you know? And it's like, oh, but you weren't
Speaker 2: going to treat me like this until you saw check Mark.
Speaker 2: Like that's pretty pathetic for you. Yeah, And just being
Speaker 2: at a SOO house is tough because everyone's trying to
Speaker 2: impress each other and I don't know how much of
Speaker 2: it's real. Like I smoked weed with some guy up
Speaker 2: on the roof and he I was I mentioned Austin.
Speaker 2: He's like, I own a house there, and it's like,
Speaker 2: I don't think you do.
Speaker 3: Wait, this is what I was just going to say. Though.
Speaker 3: We forgot to mention that we're going to be in Austin.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah we are. We're going to be at Moontower.
Speaker 3: We mentioned, We've said it before.
Speaker 1: We don't know our schedule quite yet, but just go
Speaker 1: to the moon Tower websites the Moontower Comedy Festival in Austin, Texas.
Speaker 1: It'll say when we're performing, we're both doing stand up separately.
Speaker 1: We're doing a lot that's messed up. Live show. It's
Speaker 1: going to be amazing. Please, if you don't live in Texas,
Speaker 1: tell your friends. We don't want to be We want
Speaker 1: to have people. We want to have you know, we're
Speaker 1: gonna have a great show. We want people in those seats.
Speaker 1: So tell your friends to come to Moontower please.
Speaker 2: But yeah, this guy I was smoking. He was something
Speaker 2: New York. He was Yeah, I own a bunch of
Speaker 2: galleries in New York. And it's like, do you Yeah,
Speaker 2: what's the name of it?
Speaker 1: People are wild? People are wild? And yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I'm sure I've been wild at times too. But it's
Speaker 1: just I love, you know, I love observing people. I
Speaker 1: love being judgmental and figuring stuff out. Okay, let's observe ourselves.
Speaker 1: Getting into the what would Sister Peg do segment? This
Speaker 1: is our weekly segment where we give you guys resources
Speaker 1: organizations that you can head to to learn more about
Speaker 1: what we talked about in today's episode. I don't know
Speaker 1: I didn't really feel like an organization was that like
Speaker 1: fit super well with this week's episode. So I just
Speaker 1: kind of wanted to give you a resource in case
Speaker 1: you're interested in the toy box Killer. If you're super
Speaker 1: into the nitty gritty of horrific serial killings, there's a
Speaker 1: book called Cries in the Desert, The Shocking True Story
Speaker 1: of a Statistic Torturer by John Glatt and that we
Speaker 1: have a link to that in our show notes.
Speaker 2: Beautiful and next week's episode will be Mother season five,
Speaker 2: episode three, and we hope you join along watch it
Speaker 2: with us. You know, do your homework, peacock, Hulu, VPN, stick,
Speaker 2: you know the drill, go to the library. If you
Speaker 2: have to get on board and I don't know, right
Speaker 2: to us on Instagram.
Speaker 3: We'll see you next time. Yeah, right to us. Bye.
Speaker 3: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at That's messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Clank and at glittercheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to SPU super fan and our
Speaker 2: incredible producer, Hannah Kyle Kraton.
Speaker 1: And to our sound engineer and personal hero Analis Nilsson,
Speaker 1: and to Henry Koperski for our theme song, to Carly
Speaker 1: Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thanks to our executive producers
Speaker 1: Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at exactly
Speaker 1: Right Media.
Speaker 2: Listen, subscribe, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher,
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're an advertiser
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Speaker 3: Done