Speaker 1: The Quest Love Show is a production of iHeart Radio. Well,
Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Quest Love Show. I
Speaker 1: will say that our steam guests once sang I write
Speaker 1: the songs, but I digress. I believe that our guest
Speaker 1: is the song. He's embodied all of pop culture. He's
Speaker 1: a songwriter's Hall of Fame legend, thirteen number one hits,
Speaker 1: countless top ten, top forty hits, over eighty five million
Speaker 1: records sold, classic ad jingles like if I Sit Here
Speaker 1: and sing of his accolades. The interview will be over
Speaker 1: Grammy a Winner, Emmy Winner, Tony Winner, recent no man
Speaker 1: get It's flower time. You recently got the what is.
Speaker 2: Your It was the.
Speaker 1: The advertising Hall of Fame, which which you deserve. To
Speaker 1: this day, your commercials are still your music is being used.
Speaker 1: Shout out to Jake from the Steak Firm. And despite
Speaker 1: you know, all these achievements, he returns to us one
Speaker 1: more time. I don't believe that musicians ever truly leave,
Speaker 1: but yes, what a time is this first album in
Speaker 1: fifteen years. Most importantly, we're celebrating his recent victory over cancer.
Speaker 1: And this is your final concert run. And I am
Speaker 1: honored that our legendary guest today is giving us the
Speaker 1: pleasure of just talking to him for a little bit.
Speaker 1: Very man, a little welcome to the Quest Left Show.
Speaker 1: How are you?
Speaker 2: I've been wanting to do this ever since we met
Speaker 2: on the Tonight Show, but I don't get to the
Speaker 2: East coast very often like I used to. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: going to turn this off.
Speaker 1: It's okay, you're bettermental. You can do it.
Speaker 2: You know. I know you're kidding around, but I never
Speaker 2: think like that. I just never think like that.
Speaker 1: No, it's I'm not kidding. I mean your legend and
Speaker 1: legends should be celebrated. What is your first musical memory
Speaker 1: in life? Your first musical memory from childhood?
Speaker 2: My first musical memory was my mother singing to me. Okay,
Speaker 2: she was a good singer. What does she sing pop
Speaker 2: songs other day?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: And she was good. She should have made a career
Speaker 2: out of her, but I got in the way. She
Speaker 2: had to go out and work and support me, so
Speaker 2: she never did it. But she was good.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: So that was my first first memory.
Speaker 1: Okay. So you grew up in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. Now my
Speaker 1: version of Williamsburg is where I like to hang out
Speaker 1: for like dinner with friends, and I go to movies
Speaker 1: all the time there, like I hang out Williamsburg. But
Speaker 1: he described your version of Williamsburg as a child and
Speaker 1: a team.
Speaker 2: What was it like a dump?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: And you didn't want to go there? It was so dangerous.
Speaker 2: I would consider it a very good luck if I
Speaker 2: got home from school because I lived across the street
Speaker 2: from Eastern District High School, and if I made it
Speaker 2: home without getting beaten up, I considered it a good day.
Speaker 1: Have you been there recently? Have you seen Williamsburg?
Speaker 2: I did? I mean it's a year ago. So it
Speaker 2: looked like the village, right, is that what you're talking about? Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's that's what they've turned it into. It looks like
Speaker 2: the village and it's much safer an now, Yeah.
Speaker 1: What part of New York City do you most identify
Speaker 1: it with?
Speaker 2: Though?
Speaker 1: Like what's your like all these boroughs? Like what's your
Speaker 1: favorite part.
Speaker 2: Of New York Manhattan?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: Yeah, My life began when I got a job at
Speaker 2: CBS and I liked all the people. I didn't know
Speaker 2: what I was to do it myself, but I liked it.
Speaker 2: I liked the vibe there.
Speaker 1: Okay, What were your duties at CBS You started working
Speaker 1: there in the early sixties, Like, what were your job duties?
Speaker 2: I was a male boy for a while, and then
Speaker 2: they promoted me into editing films, and that was good.
Speaker 2: I like that. I liked all the people there. They
Speaker 2: were funny and smart, and I had a great time
Speaker 2: at CBS. And then everybody knew I was musical because
Speaker 2: I would run away and play piano because there was
Speaker 2: a lot of rehearsal holes, so they would hear this
Speaker 2: skinny male boy playing piano. And I left CBS. And
Speaker 2: after I left CBS, I got a phone call from
Speaker 2: CBS saying they're putting up a brand new show, a
Speaker 2: local show called Callback. It's what we know today is
Speaker 2: trying to find a talented jung person and so they
Speaker 2: needed a music directory. So I was available. So I
Speaker 2: came back to CBS only and they're totally different.
Speaker 1: And your duties were to find songs, write songs, arrange songs,
Speaker 1: and as just a one man machine, or were you
Speaker 1: like with a bunch of collaborators.
Speaker 2: Or but there were people there, but it really was
Speaker 2: my gig to pull all the songs together. I would
Speaker 2: work with the singer, give them an arrangement, make sure
Speaker 2: it's in the right key, and then conduct the band
Speaker 2: on the day of the show.
Speaker 1: And I loved it so back then I would imagine
Speaker 1: that as a working musician, would one have to site
Speaker 1: read on the spot, like be at any point where
Speaker 1: musicians that weren't able to read charts able to still
Speaker 1: get gigs, like if you could do chord charts or
Speaker 1: just notate to them what to play and watch me
Speaker 1: for the cues.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I haven't met many musicians who can't read, which
Speaker 2: is good because if you can read music, if you
Speaker 2: want to be a musician, you've got to learn how
Speaker 2: to read music, because if you can't, you'll always work.
Speaker 2: But if you can't, then these producers will not hire
Speaker 2: you because that means you got to memorize it on
Speaker 2: the spot, right, and that's not good for the producers.
Speaker 1: I know that at some point you started working either
Speaker 1: with the Sullivan Show or without.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was very young, but I conducted for the
Speaker 2: summer at Sullivan Show. It was a big deal.
Speaker 1: I mean, how timidating was that process?
Speaker 2: It was. These older musicians did not like taking orders
Speaker 2: from me. It really didn't. I wasn't prepared for it,
Speaker 2: but they did not like or taking orders from me.
Speaker 1: How big were the orchestras?
Speaker 2: Not huge? But you know it was a TV size show,
Speaker 2: bigger than we have today.
Speaker 1: I've heard many a story about the Continental Baths, or
Speaker 1: like the Bete Midler Show, But I've heard the title
Speaker 1: what exactly can you just run me through? What that
Speaker 1: environment was like? Was it a place she entertained or
Speaker 1: was it a bar? Was it a restaurant? What is it?
Speaker 2: Was it a spa?
Speaker 1: So it was literally she would do a show inside
Speaker 1: of the spa. Okay, I've never heard of this before,
Speaker 1: but I've heard the Continental Bats and this is where
Speaker 1: she got her start. So they would have entertainment there, yes, okay.
Speaker 1: And you were her musical director.
Speaker 2: Or I was the music director of every weekend. I
Speaker 2: would show up whoever was performing there. They give me
Speaker 2: their music. I play for them at night. And bet
Speaker 2: was one of those girls, okay, and it was it
Speaker 2: was odd because they weren't wearing any clothes.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, Okay, I did not know this. So is
Speaker 1: it actually inside the spa? So how is the conversation
Speaker 1: and all that stuff worked? For the instruments and whatnot,
Speaker 1: Like there.
Speaker 2: Was just me at a rotten little piano and a
Speaker 2: drummer who tried to catch up. That was good, and
Speaker 2: a lot of people.
Speaker 1: Came out and her voice would amplify, like yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: still thinking of the technical part of it, like if
Speaker 1: you're if you're in a steam room with a microphone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it was very amateurs. It was no
Speaker 2: big deal.
Speaker 1: What was the duration of these ninety minutes? Okay?
Speaker 2: She would take an intermission. All the girls. I don't
Speaker 2: think I ever saw a guy performing there. It was
Speaker 2: all the girls, got it. I was playing for all
Speaker 2: the girls as a as a musician and as a
Speaker 2: I would do their arrangements of it. And a lot
Speaker 2: of times I found that those girls were gonna be
Speaker 2: performing at the Continental Bass on Saturday night, So that
Speaker 2: was good. It was it was inbiting. I was not naked.
Speaker 2: I was not with a little towel around me at all.
Speaker 2: So much my hot, finish my gig and run.
Speaker 1: Okay. What I've heard about these shows is how legendary
Speaker 1: they were, Like what was it about her as a
Speaker 1: performer that made her stand out from anyone else? That's
Speaker 1: saying there and anyone else have notes sing there as
Speaker 1: well or just yeah.
Speaker 2: But bet was. She was brilliant. I mean the most
Speaker 2: brilliant young challenge that you've ever seen. And she was
Speaker 2: going to be a star, and I mean she was
Speaker 2: so she could do anything. She could do blues, she
Speaker 2: could do welcome rolls. So that was great for me
Speaker 2: because I could do that too. So got it. So
Speaker 2: we hated each other on site, but musically were great.
Speaker 1: Okay, we'll see your first client in producing. As far
Speaker 1: as albums, we're concerned or okay. So you know, I
Speaker 1: know that today producing is a very loose term, Like
Speaker 1: I know producers that do the work, and I know
Speaker 1: some producers just rubber stamp. But I know back then
Speaker 1: there was a whole process, or at least it was
Speaker 1: more discipline in terms of like getting rhythm arrangers, getting
Speaker 1: horn arrangers. Like without having had that experience before, how
Speaker 1: intimidating was it to man the ship for the first time?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I loved it. I loved it, especially if they
Speaker 2: did have music that I could just play for them.
Speaker 2: That hardly had music. She was just coming up, she
Speaker 2: was broke, she didn't have she didn't have money to
Speaker 2: get arrangements that people could. Once I started working for
Speaker 2: I wrote out all of the arrangements that she would
Speaker 2: need and for nothing, because I saw this girl was
Speaker 2: so talented, was so talented, and when you see something
Speaker 2: like that, you have to support it. I felt rugby myself,
Speaker 2: but this girl was something else.
Speaker 1: Then what was your creative process? Like I know some
Speaker 1: songwriters Quincy Jones says he likes to arrange like between
Speaker 1: midnight and five am, or like for you, what is
Speaker 1: the creative process that you need in order to bring
Speaker 1: a song to light?
Speaker 2: What I need is a job. I don't like to
Speaker 2: write songs, and because they never go anywhere, and most
Speaker 2: of them are wonderful. I think they're wonderful. I only
Speaker 2: write these days if someone has a job and I
Speaker 2: know that it's going to land someplace, then I do it.
Speaker 2: But for so many years I just would write a
Speaker 2: song or I don't know, and they would go nowhere
Speaker 2: to go into the book, And so I stopped doing that.
Speaker 1: Okay, So, and I'm saying this in air quotes. This
Speaker 1: is your last go round, so you say, But I mean,
Speaker 1: how many are still left over? Or it's just that
Speaker 1: you write for the moment, for the task at hand.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do. I write on demand, but there are
Speaker 2: songs that I wrote with nothing in mind.
Speaker 1: So how do you deal with the pressure then and
Speaker 1: actually admire this this process which I never heard before,
Speaker 1: because everyone has this story, like one night I woke
Speaker 1: from a dream and I felt inspired.
Speaker 2: To da da da da. Like I don't one of
Speaker 2: those two.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not technically known as a songwriter, but
Speaker 1: oftentimes the first thing that's or my plate is the deadline.
Speaker 1: I need something by Thursday, March blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: Well we're saying the same thing. I need to know
Speaker 2: that it's going to land someplace. So I stopped just
Speaker 2: writing just to write to write, I mean, just wasting,
Speaker 2: wasting great music. And I was so proud of these
Speaker 2: things that they didn't go anywhere. So I won't do
Speaker 2: it unless I know it's going to go someplace.
Speaker 1: Have you ever had like a real severe case of
Speaker 1: writer's block where just nothing was happening at all. No,
Speaker 1: I've written lousy songs, but okay, well, I know you've
Speaker 1: had collaborators, but I mean Ron Dante is probably the
Speaker 1: person that would be that. But who's the person that
Speaker 1: could tell you you tried that idea before or maybe
Speaker 1: you used to do a key lower like who's the
Speaker 1: person that you trust to say?
Speaker 2: Well, these days it's a gun named David Benson, Okay,
Speaker 2: who I've known for years, and certainly my assistant Mark
Speaker 2: is sole musical. Those are the two guys that I
Speaker 2: run to to ask what do you think?
Speaker 1: And you accept their truth. They'll be honest with you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do.
Speaker 1: When was the moment in your career that you knew
Speaker 1: that you could do this full time? Because I always
Speaker 1: imagine living in New York City, there's never the feeling
Speaker 1: of safety of like like when you get your first
Speaker 1: number one, do you feel like you arrived? There was
Speaker 1: like m I still might have to hustle my way through.
Speaker 2: Or well, that's two questions because at the beginning, I
Speaker 2: had to figure out what I wanted to do with
Speaker 2: my life. So I wasn't even thinking about making records
Speaker 2: ever ever even thinking about doing that.
Speaker 1: Wait, why not?
Speaker 2: Well, coming from the slums of Brooklyn, New York, you
Speaker 2: don't think that big, Okay.
Speaker 1: So when you were when you were eleven, what were
Speaker 1: your goals in life? Like, what did you want to
Speaker 1: do for a living? What did you think you wanted.
Speaker 2: Just to get home from school just to start you
Speaker 2: want to do without getting what were you doing when
Speaker 2: you were eleving? Did you know you were going to
Speaker 2: be a musician.
Speaker 1: This is the worst humble prag.
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 1: My my father was an oldies do wop singer from
Speaker 1: the fifties. Oh so he had a group called Le
Speaker 1: Andrews and the Hearts, and by the time I was born,
Speaker 1: it was the nostalgia period, so he kind of made
Speaker 1: it a family act. So like when I was twelve,
Speaker 1: because of a motorcycle accident of my dad's drummer, I
Speaker 1: became his de facto drummer and bandleader. Like my first
Speaker 1: gig was at Radio City Music Hall, whoa, And so
Speaker 1: I was tricked into the family business, like farming, you know,
Speaker 1: like they didn't believe in babysitters, so it's like, nope,
Speaker 1: you come with us. And so I got tricked into
Speaker 1: the family business. But I mean, pretty much, my dad's
Speaker 1: dream was for me to like to drum for you,
Speaker 1: like a respectable job, like I want you to do
Speaker 1: something with the dada I Philharmonic or that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: And you know, starting a rap group with my best
Speaker 1: friend in high school like was not as plans, even
Speaker 1: though I auditioned for Juilliard, Like the next day my
Speaker 1: act of rebellion was busking on the streets. And then
Speaker 1: that led to a record deal.
Speaker 2: And so when your father must have been really proud.
Speaker 1: And by my fourth album he was. But even even
Speaker 1: on the third album he was still like, you gotta
Speaker 1: get a real job. But that's the thing, Like I
Speaker 1: don't think a musician ever feels like they're totally safe
Speaker 1: or you know, like this is what I'm gonna do
Speaker 1: for a lifetime. So as far as your life as
Speaker 1: a jingle maker, how many drafts do you have to
Speaker 1: go through before you know you deserve a break? The
Speaker 1: day is the one? Or you know you're the Panpsy generation,
Speaker 1: Or did you also write I'm a pepper, he's a pepper? No, okay,
Speaker 1: but you wrote for doctor Pepper Rick correct band aid
Speaker 1: and I'm stuck going band aid And I'm sure you
Speaker 1: know everything or even today kids know like a good
Speaker 1: neighbor state farms there. How do you know when you
Speaker 1: have the perfect eight second tag?
Speaker 2: It comes really easy to me. And the commercial world,
Speaker 2: the world that I was in, they would give me
Speaker 2: a lyric or they would give me a couple of lines.
Speaker 2: That's what I had to create. So if they gave
Speaker 2: me a lyric, we'll get out of the way. I
Speaker 2: can write a melody to anything. And I got them
Speaker 2: a lot. I love those years. I just love those years.
Speaker 2: I learned so much about making records. I worked with
Speaker 2: the greatest musicians because you know, they get paid big
Speaker 2: to do a commercial, and so they were so helpful
Speaker 2: to me. You know, I was so green during those years.
Speaker 2: But when I left, I knew what I was doing,
Speaker 2: and I knew I wanted to stay there. I never
Speaker 2: really thought about singing, never.
Speaker 1: So the learning curve of it, like did you have
Speaker 1: a mentor to actually teach you the ropes or this
Speaker 1: stuff you have to learn? No, on the way to it.
Speaker 2: No, you know, it was just a job, and they
Speaker 2: liked what I did. And I was one of like
Speaker 2: five guys that tried out for these commercials. And I
Speaker 2: would get them, the other guy would get them, the
Speaker 2: girl would get them. I would get them, and we
Speaker 2: would all try to.
Speaker 1: So there's like four other versions of like a good
Speaker 1: neighbor of state farmers there that we don't know about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they were great, these people were great. Really,
Speaker 2: I don't even know how I was able to compute
Speaker 2: with them. They were wonderful.
Speaker 1: I respect that because when I started Late Night. Yeah,
Speaker 1: one of the biggest songwriting challenges. This is one I knew, like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't know anything about songwriting. It's like when you
Speaker 1: have to write a five second tag jingle and they
Speaker 1: would literally send us back, you know, they'd be like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this called hot dog in a Hole, give me five
Speaker 1: second jingle. And we'd write it and they'd be like, no,
Speaker 1: it's we need more. Like they literally wanted emotion, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, dude, it's just a five second tag for
Speaker 1: a game. Like I didn't think it was that serious.
Speaker 1: But after five years of doing that, I now realized
Speaker 1: that whatever I had before I came to the Tonight
Speaker 1: Show writing five second jingles as a muscle exercise is
Speaker 1: now made me a monster, you know, for real songs.
Speaker 1: How do you handle rejection if someone doesn't like it?
Speaker 1: Like do you come home and remix it? Or do
Speaker 1: you know?
Speaker 2: In that world it's yes or no. That's a general
Speaker 2: in mind, okay, and me I go on to.
Speaker 1: The next thing, all right, So I can imagine at
Speaker 1: least with the Bell Records connection. But can you talk
Speaker 1: about your working relationship with Ron Dante and him producing
Speaker 1: like your run of albums, how you your working relationship was,
Speaker 1: And first of all, well to hear you say it,
Speaker 1: how did you finally decide that, yes, I will become
Speaker 1: a singer and release my own music.
Speaker 2: Even when I read Ron Dante, I never considered myself
Speaker 2: a singer. I was a songwriter. I was the arranger.
Speaker 2: I was a piano player. So when I met Ron
Speaker 2: Dante had a commercial session, I had written the piece.
Speaker 2: I forget what the thing was. Then the producer asked
Speaker 2: me if to sing in that group. That's when I
Speaker 2: got some money when I was on the spot. If
Speaker 2: you're because as a songwriter you get I got five hundred.
Speaker 1: Dollars worked for hire.
Speaker 2: And then well they don't unless you're on the spot
Speaker 2: saying talking, you don't get residuals. So I wrote it.
Speaker 1: Wait, so the songwriter doesn't get residuals, but the person
Speaker 1: that sings it gets. So Luther Vangels will get all
Speaker 1: the residuals for singing. Yeah, I started your Pepsi song.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I started to get really big checks, but not
Speaker 2: as the songwriter. I got five hundred dollars for state farmers. There.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 1: So to this day when I hear it, five hundred,
Speaker 1: damn okay.
Speaker 2: But when I sang on the spot, well watch out
Speaker 2: those who really great, I mean especially for me. So
Speaker 2: I met ron Dante on a on one of those
Speaker 2: kind of singing sessions. He was fantastic. He doesn't read music,
Speaker 2: but he's so talented. He gets it like that. His
Speaker 2: voice is so pleasant on the radio. They hire him
Speaker 2: for everything.
Speaker 1: He was once the voice of the Sugar Sugar for
Speaker 1: the cot.
Speaker 2: That was a big one for him anyway. So I was.
Speaker 2: We did a session together and we went out to
Speaker 2: lunch or something, and we started talking about what about
Speaker 2: making a record because I had written some stuff that
Speaker 2: he really liked. So we said sure, you know, so
Speaker 2: we pope pulled our money and we went into the
Speaker 2: recording studio and I thought he was going to sing it,
Speaker 2: sing the lead, because I really never even thought about
Speaker 2: myself as a singer never. But he didn't know the
Speaker 2: lyric and he didn't know the melody right. So I
Speaker 2: went in there and sang, and I, you know, I
Speaker 2: felt ridiculous because I've never really thought about being a singer.
Speaker 2: And we played our demos for record companies and they
Speaker 2: liked me. What are you talking about? But they like me,
Speaker 2: and eventually I got a record deal at Felt Records.
Speaker 1: So what is the key to your confidence then? Like
Speaker 1: if you're in your mind saying hey, why me? Like
Speaker 1: what gets you out of how do you deal with
Speaker 1: imposter syndrome? Like do I deserve to be here? Shouldn't
Speaker 1: you get a better guy to sing it? Like in
Speaker 1: your mind? Yeah, what's the voice of you hearing that
Speaker 1: should knock these songs out?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, I know it was a long time ago,
Speaker 2: but but I no, I never considered myself a singer.
Speaker 2: I thought it was ridiculous.
Speaker 1: How did you deal with imposter syndrome? Realize that you
Speaker 1: are the one?
Speaker 2: I played the game I did. They wanted me to sing, Sure,
Speaker 2: I'll sing it was really about some buddy.
Speaker 1: Well, okay, so the first album didn't necessarily hit as much.
Speaker 1: So how did you deal with that not working? Did
Speaker 1: youus think like, okay, this is a one off and
Speaker 1: I did it and.
Speaker 2: I was hoping it didn't work. I didn't like the gig.
Speaker 2: I like the gig of writing way I like the
Speaker 2: gig of arranging.
Speaker 1: You know, only wanted to self sabotage her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was hoping this would go away.
Speaker 1: This often happens, Okay, so I would at least like
Speaker 1: to think that now you feel like, okay, I deserved it,
Speaker 1: and you still feel that way, So you don't feel
Speaker 1: like we appreciate you all that much or I'm gonna
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put it this way. You're so ubiquitous, like
Speaker 1: the fiber of you, so ubiquitous that I know your
Speaker 1: whole history and I'm not even your target audience. Like,
Speaker 1: but if I'm home as a third grader like you
Speaker 1: were on Dinah Shore, I think he had a group
Speaker 1: called Lady Flash or something like that. Yeah, like to
Speaker 1: watch Bandstand and Soldierin all the time. So like you're
Speaker 1: just a part of our fabric. So in case you
Speaker 1: don't know, you're appreciated. But the second time it did.
Speaker 2: Work, well, that was because Clive that tell me about and.
Speaker 1: You get prime Clive, you get prime hungry. I got
Speaker 1: to prove to Columbia and start an arist to like,
Speaker 1: I feel like, even though I know Eric Carmon and
Speaker 1: Bay City Rollers was sort of like out the Gate
Speaker 1: with him, But I feel like you are his main
Speaker 1: trojan horse in terms of like him him establishing himself.
Speaker 2: But I don't know why.
Speaker 1: Well, was the relationship contentious?
Speaker 2: Like, well, he wanted me to record songs that he liked?
Speaker 1: He would did you trust his zero back then? Or
Speaker 1: were you were lucky them?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: No? But I wanted to record my own songs. Was
Speaker 2: I was a songwriter, and so we made a deal.
Speaker 2: I would give him two songs on the albums and
Speaker 2: the rest of them would be mine. And of course
Speaker 2: those two songs. I wonder how that.
Speaker 1: Would happen, right, Well, you told the story thing on
Speaker 1: the tonight show of you not liking Mandy when it
Speaker 1: first arrived to you.
Speaker 2: Well, did you ever hear that?
Speaker 1: I've heard the original? Okay, So when I still feel,
Speaker 1: we all still feel like a song is yours once
Speaker 1: it arrives in your hands. So when you get a song,
Speaker 1: how long do you have to sit with it before
Speaker 1: you filter it and process it and mold it to
Speaker 1: know that, Okay, this is now my song.
Speaker 2: Well, they're all different, but I mean Mandy, I played
Speaker 2: around with it and I changed the chords and I
Speaker 2: found the love song hiding in this rock and roll song.
Speaker 2: And that night Ronnie and I did a version of
Speaker 2: Brandy just like the demo, and Clive came in and said,
Speaker 2: what's that. I said, that's the record that you think
Speaker 2: I should do, and he said that's terrible. I said,
Speaker 2: I know it's terrible. That's not what I do. So
Speaker 2: I said, I've been playing in the afternoon. Come with me.
Speaker 2: So I sat him, I sat at the piano and
Speaker 2: I played him what I had played around with in
Speaker 2: the afternoon, which was I had found the love song
Speaker 2: hiding in this Mandy And he said, just do that,
Speaker 2: just and he backed the way into the control room
Speaker 2: and we did one take and that was it. What ah?
Speaker 2: Then we added strings.
Speaker 1: And so initially leaves this piano in your voice and
Speaker 1: no click track any Oh my god, there would been
Speaker 1: a nightmare for me. Yea, In your opinion, what is
Speaker 1: already for a great song? Is it? I'm a rhythm
Speaker 1: person because I'm a drummer. But for you is it?
Speaker 1: The words? Is the melody, it's the emotion.
Speaker 2: If you can get people to feel something, then you're
Speaker 2: halfway home.
Speaker 1: So at every arrangement of yours, every song of yours,
Speaker 1: has to have emotion that gives you know, Okay. I
Speaker 1: always wanted to know this because this is a karaoke
Speaker 1: nightmare song for the Copa cabana. I admire songs that
Speaker 1: have a narrative in it, and there's so much detail
Speaker 1: and linear detail packed in this song. Yet it's probably
Speaker 1: one of your most popular songs.
Speaker 2: And I don't know why, but and.
Speaker 1: There's no circular thing that like, I mean, the melody
Speaker 1: sticks with you, but there's so like I mean, someone
Speaker 1: gets shot, and like at the time when you were
Speaker 1: creating it, is this like going to be filler in
Speaker 1: your head like a great album cut or did you
Speaker 1: say this is going to be like my signature or something?
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, it was the novelty cut on
Speaker 2: the album.
Speaker 1: Because so when it caught on, how did you feel
Speaker 1: about it?
Speaker 2: It was thrilling, Okay, thrilling, yeah, Runner. I took her
Speaker 2: to a disco around where the studio was. As soon
Speaker 2: as Copa came on, we you know, paid some guy
Speaker 2: and said the DJ, and as soon as it came on,
Speaker 2: everybody ran to the dance floor and pretended they were
Speaker 2: they were in the nineteen forties.
Speaker 1: Right, wash buckling and cast a blanket.
Speaker 2: Okay, I said to you, we're onto something and uh
Speaker 2: Claude hated it.
Speaker 1: Really.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Rista didn't put a penny behind promotion of Gopa Cabaa.
Speaker 1: It's so caught on because the word of mouth and
Speaker 1: just spreading.
Speaker 2: That's how it happened. Okay, when that is a real
Speaker 2: hit record.
Speaker 1: Whenever he is wrong, will he admit it or will
Speaker 1: he just hey, I knew it all? Will he just well?
Speaker 2: Ask him? He doesn't. He didn't. He doesn't like copa
Speaker 2: and he didn't do anything for it, but the public
Speaker 2: liked it, and they were calling in the radio stations
Speaker 2: and as saying to play mane los copa. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's how it happened.
Speaker 1: So you probably have one of the best co signs ever.
Speaker 1: When Sinatra famously said, hey, like you're the next great one.
Speaker 2: He didn't say that. He said, well, I know that.
Speaker 1: He said something to this.
Speaker 2: He said he's next, and I thought, am I gonna
Speaker 2: wind up where the horse was at? He's next?
Speaker 1: But he knew what he meant.
Speaker 2: Yes, he said he's next. I never really got to
Speaker 2: know him, but he sang a song of mine on
Speaker 2: the Tonight Show and he did a beautiful job. Not
Speaker 2: one of the hits. He found a real album cut,
Speaker 2: he memorized it, did a beautiful job.
Speaker 1: Is it weird when people cover your songs like so
Speaker 1: soon after you did it? I mean, Donna Summer started
Speaker 1: covering a song that you recorded, like maybe perhaps a
Speaker 1: year before. Like when a song is yours and then
Speaker 1: someone else does it, do you ever feel a certain
Speaker 1: way about it?
Speaker 2: Like I think everybody should record my songs?
Speaker 1: There you go. I don't care of the covers that
Speaker 1: were done, Like what was your favorites that were or
Speaker 1: the notable ones that you told?
Speaker 2: The answer is could it be magic?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Could it be magic?
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 1: I gotta ask you this question in your arrangements, and
Speaker 1: you're one of these grand arrangers. Like, there's two things
Speaker 1: about your arrangements that I noticed. One, you rarely do
Speaker 1: a fade out. You do an ending, which doesn't happen anymore,
Speaker 1: like songs end in concert, but they never end on record,
Speaker 1: and that's a lost art. But also the modulation now
Speaker 1: of all your songs in which the modulation adds that
Speaker 1: last part. I gotta ask you about never love this
Speaker 1: way again? Because to me, the evil Canevil jump isn't
Speaker 1: landing on the final note, it's that hold on bridge
Speaker 1: in which Dion Warwick actually has to go. That modulation
Speaker 1: should be studied for the ages. What was on your
Speaker 1: mind when you make like you could have just go
Speaker 1: on it's the modulation and been there, but you had to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just felt better. It just felt better, and
Speaker 2: she was so great that she was able to pick
Speaker 2: it up. But it didn't throw you, did it?
Speaker 1: I mean one, I'm not a singer, but I've been
Speaker 1: witnessed to many a car accident. Yeah, singers attempting to
Speaker 1: figure out where that last hold on goes to before
Speaker 1: they had to land on the modulation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think anybody's ever had trouble with those modulations,
Speaker 2: even though they should.
Speaker 1: But well they're complex. Though they're complex. But is that
Speaker 1: a lost art? Like do you? I mean not? There's
Speaker 1: a certain art to music that that has lost again
Speaker 1: and the ending and the modulation, like is the modulation
Speaker 1: the when you spoke of the emotion of a song,
Speaker 1: is that the payoff? Like is the first three minutes
Speaker 1: the build up that leads to whatever you're supposed to feel.
Speaker 2: It all depends on the song. But the singer, the writer.
Speaker 2: There's no rules. There's no rules. It's art, it's music.
Speaker 2: You can't put it in a box. They're all different.
Speaker 2: I don't even remember the modulation, and I never loved
Speaker 2: this way again, But I mean, it's a beautiful song.
Speaker 2: She did a beautiful job, and that's all I got.
Speaker 1: There, you go. Speaking of which, Daja Vu is one of,
Speaker 1: like one of my favorite songs of all time. I
Speaker 1: know that Isaac Hayes wrote that song, but he just
Speaker 1: talked about the general process of producing that Dion record
Speaker 1: because by that point, you know, she had been kind
Speaker 1: of out there for five six years really without like
Speaker 1: a hit. So many people credit that entire album as
Speaker 1: her comeback album and established her for the eighties and whatnot.
Speaker 1: I mean started hosting Solid Gold.
Speaker 2: After I think she got a Grammy for Yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't know that was a again and dajelod another category. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I had never heard of one of those.
Speaker 1: So what was it like producing those sessions?
Speaker 2: It was just another session. You're not saying all about no,
Speaker 2: But by that time I knew those musicians. They were friends,
Speaker 2: and I would tell them what I'd like and they
Speaker 2: would play it, and that's it. I would love to
Speaker 2: tell you that I was loved to the vibe in
Speaker 2: the room. It says no, it was. It was a
Speaker 2: recording session. I had done a million of them. You know,
Speaker 2: they were great. These musicians were great. I would tell
Speaker 2: them little ideas that I wanted and they would do
Speaker 2: it okay. Sometimes they'll hit songs, and sometimes they weren't okay.
Speaker 1: So your album, which is your first record in fifteen years. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and by the way, congratulations on it. And I'm a
Speaker 1: person that is also has not released any product in
Speaker 1: ten years, and I'll admit that there's some sort of
Speaker 1: psychological fear of getting back in the ring and going
Speaker 1: back to the gym and working out how do you
Speaker 1: walk through the fear of just one more time, like
Speaker 1: let me do this again? How did you get through
Speaker 1: any self doubt you had or.
Speaker 2: Michael Lord and I made this album and it took
Speaker 2: a long time, and COVID was have happened in the
Speaker 2: middle of it, right, So it just took forever and
Speaker 2: made this album. I didn't even think it was going
Speaker 2: to ever come out after COVID, you know, I didn't know.
Speaker 2: It wasn't one of those albums that I've made record
Speaker 2: Company once Thursday. It wasn't that. It was a batch
Speaker 2: of songs and I really wanted to hear them done properly.
Speaker 2: And that's it. I love them and I think they're
Speaker 2: very well. Maybe an audience that feels the same way,
Speaker 2: But we'll see.
Speaker 1: How did Once Before I Go land in your life?
Speaker 1: And you know, why did you feel that was necessary
Speaker 1: to record?
Speaker 2: Clive? This man can't get rid of him, thank god.
Speaker 2: But he was having this big outdoor festival in Central
Speaker 2: Park and he got rained out. If you remember, he
Speaker 2: got rained out and he called me and said, did
Speaker 2: you have you ever heard of a so called Once
Speaker 2: Before I Go? And I said, yeah. Peter played it
Speaker 2: for me in my old apartment in New York. He said,
Speaker 2: you should do it. I said, but it's been a
Speaker 2: long time. Anyway, I went into the studio since I
Speaker 2: was making an album and then I was on the road.
Speaker 2: So goodness, Babyface Kenneth stepped in and made a beautiful
Speaker 2: record for me, and I got a top ten single
Speaker 2: out of it. I know, I haven't been on the
Speaker 2: last time I was at the often Washington was closing
Speaker 2: the Della Wheel. Really it's nuts.
Speaker 1: My final question to you so once the album is out, completed,
Speaker 1: and once you've done your very last show, and I
Speaker 1: hate asking this question because again every artist I talk
Speaker 1: to you says this is it?
Speaker 3: No more?
Speaker 1: All right, let me get a pen ultimate question before
Speaker 1: I ask the final question.
Speaker 2: One?
Speaker 1: Is there really such a thing as stopping?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Okay, So once the album is out and you've done
Speaker 1: your very last show, what are you going to do
Speaker 1: for yourself?
Speaker 2: I'll tell you after I do it.
Speaker 1: Barry Manilo, I thank you for granted me this audience.
Speaker 1: You're such a legend and we appreciate and love you,
Speaker 1: and thank you for coming on the Question Show. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much. See all the next go around.
Speaker 2: This was great.
Speaker 1: A Quest Love Show is hosted by me Amir Quest
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