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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: A woman claiming to be missing Cherry Mahon, eight years

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Speaker 2: old when she vanishes at a bus stop.

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Speaker 1: Has emerged. Is this real?

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Speaker 2: What happened to eight year old Cherry? I'm Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: In the last days.

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Speaker 2: A woman claiming to be Cherry Mahon who goes missing

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Speaker 2: at just age eight has emerged. What happened in the case?

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Speaker 2: I want you to take a listen to this.

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Speaker 3: Janis and Leroy McKinney. Here Cherry's bus arriving to drop

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Speaker 3: off Cherry, and Leroy wants to walk down the hill

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Speaker 3: to meet his daughter, but Janet says, wait, it's a

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Speaker 3: nice day. Let her walk. Ten minutes past and Cherry

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Speaker 3: hasn't made it up the driveway, so the McKinney's decide

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Speaker 3: to walk down the driveway. As they walk, they don't

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Speaker 3: see Cherry, nor did they see any of her footprints

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Speaker 3: in the snow leading up the driveway. On the driveway,

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Speaker 3: about fifty yards from the house, they see tire impressions

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Speaker 3: in the snow soil of the driveway.

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Speaker 1: Joy mean All Star panel.

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Speaker 2: But first I want to go to Molly Miller, crime

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Speaker 2: reporter at the Butler Eagle.

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Speaker 1: Mollie, thank you so much for being with us.

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Speaker 2: What exactly do we believe happened the morning Cherry went missing.

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Speaker 2: I'll get to the woman climbing to be Cherry in

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Speaker 2: just a moment, but I want to establish what happened.

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Speaker 4: All we know is that this bluish green van with

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Speaker 4: the mountain skier on the side was following the bus.

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Speaker 4: She exits the bus with three other kids and seemingly

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Speaker 4: starts to walk up the driveway, but at that point

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Speaker 4: people don't really know where she went after that. There's

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Speaker 4: no reported sighting from anyone. She's last seen wearing a

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Speaker 4: gray jacket, blue jean skirt, some leg warmers and some earmuffs,

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Speaker 4: and no clothing is ever found, and her stepdad reportedly

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Speaker 4: came down to check for her just ten minutes after

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Speaker 4: they heard the bus pull up. So really it seems

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Speaker 4: as if she's vanished into thin.

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Speaker 2: Air, you know, irv Brant, I actually think that's a

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Speaker 2: lot of information.

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Speaker 1: Why because we have a.

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Speaker 2: Date, and we have a very narrow window of time

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Speaker 2: in which Cherry disappears, or Brent, you and I have

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Speaker 2: talked about this many many times.

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Speaker 1: Did you know.

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Speaker 2: Over thirty percent of child kidnaps and disappearances have something

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Speaker 2: to do with the school route, either getting to the

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Speaker 2: bus stop, getting on the bus, getting off the bus,

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Speaker 2: walking to school, coming home from school. Do you know

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Speaker 2: over thirty percent of child kidnaps relate to the school bus.

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Speaker 1: Or getting to and from school. And I believe that

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Speaker 1: is exactly what happened here.

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Speaker 5: I agree, Nancy, when cases like this and it's obviously

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Speaker 5: this child was targeted. This was an kidnap of opportunity.

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Speaker 5: This appears to be someone you know, researched this new

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Speaker 5: the route, you know, because other children got off the

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Speaker 5: bus at the same time, but she was targeted in particular,

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Speaker 5: and she disappears without a trace. That would lead you

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Speaker 5: to believe, you know, this was pre planned, and there's

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Speaker 5: no telling how much pre planning went into it. Obviously

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Speaker 5: quite a bit, because no viable leads were generated right

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Speaker 5: after the kidnapping.

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Speaker 2: There's a five thousand dollar reward in the search for Cherry.

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Speaker 2: I want to go back to Molly Miller, a crime

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Speaker 2: reporter at the Butler Eagle. Mollie, again, I think we've

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Speaker 2: got a lot of information, even though.

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Speaker 1: This case hasn't been solved yet.

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Speaker 2: For instance, very often when a child goes missing, you

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Speaker 2: look at the immediate family, right, you look at mommy,

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Speaker 2: you look at daddy, You look at step mommy stepdaddy.

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Speaker 1: In this case, you have the bio mom and the stepfather.

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Speaker 2: They hear the bus arrive, they're waiting for Cherry to

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Speaker 2: come up the driveway. They see each other, and I

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Speaker 2: have no reason to doubt what the biological mother is saying. Okay,

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Speaker 2: nothing suggests stepfather stole this child. And another thing regarding

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Speaker 2: the stepfather, who would immediately come under suspicion because the

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Speaker 2: male member of the family is always a suspect until

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Speaker 2: cleared the nine one one is made. The alarm is

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Speaker 2: raised so quickly after the school bus stops. As soon

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Speaker 2: as they go out and they see she's not there,

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Speaker 2: they contact police. That narrows the window of time stepdad

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Speaker 2: could have been involved. And this is why we know

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Speaker 2: exactly what time that school bus was there. We have

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Speaker 2: the little friends that got off the school bus with her.

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Speaker 2: Other people saw the school bus. Then you compare that

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Speaker 2: to the time that she was reported missing. There's not

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Speaker 2: really time for stepdad to take the child. What molest

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Speaker 2: her and kill her. There's no time. If you look

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Speaker 2: at the timeline, Molly Miller.

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Speaker 4: There is some speculation because I mean, it all goes

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Speaker 4: back to that van following the school bus. There's a

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Speaker 4: lot of speculation actually that the van itself was just

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Speaker 4: a transport vehicle to another location. It's possible that she

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Speaker 4: was put in another vehicle. There was people seeing a

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Speaker 4: blue compact vehicle in that area at the same time,

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Speaker 4: so it's possible that number one, there were multiple people involved.

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Speaker 4: And I mean, FBI has done a profile on Cherry's

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Speaker 4: potential abductor and it all points back to it had

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Speaker 4: to have been someone she knows to have not raised alarm,

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Speaker 4: and again in such a short period of time, it's

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Speaker 4: very unlikely that she was afraid of going with this

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Speaker 4: person who did take.

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Speaker 2: Her to Lynshaw joining us, founder and executive director of

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Speaker 2: Lynn's Lawyers, an organization committed to ending human trafficking and

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Speaker 2: sex exploitation, specifically of children. Lynn, thank you so much

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Speaker 2: for being with us. The first thing I want to

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Speaker 2: do is try to rule out the parents. Okay, why

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Speaker 2: because statistically they or a family member is responsible for

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Speaker 2: missing children. Right, that's a given, that's a statistic, And

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Speaker 2: what I'm trying to say is that that's a huge

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Speaker 2: piece of this puzzle.

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Speaker 1: We know the answer. It's not the step dad, it's

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Speaker 1: not the mother.

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Speaker 2: Based on the timeline alone, that's very significant in Cherry's disappearance.

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Speaker 2: I can't stress it enough. Yes, it opens up a

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Speaker 2: whole nother avenue of inquiry, of investigation.

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Speaker 1: But that's the.

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Speaker 2: First hurdle is ruling out mom, dad, step mom, stepdad.

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Speaker 1: That's the first thing you do, Liam.

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Speaker 6: It's the first thing Nancy you do. But the second

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Speaker 6: thing you always do immediate family members. Now the next

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Speaker 6: thing you have to look at the bus driver. Why

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Speaker 6: aren't we looking more? There have been some reports looking

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Speaker 6: at the bus driver? What about school school teachers. I

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Speaker 6: don't understand, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: You're a mom. I'm a mom.

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Speaker 6: The worst thing in the world as your child disappears,

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Speaker 6: and nobody seems to know anything. We do know from

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Speaker 6: law enforcement and from all our work at the Warriors,

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Speaker 6: it is most likely somebody that knows Cherry, a family member.

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Speaker 6: She was eight years old. She didn't scream. We don't

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Speaker 6: know anything. If the father could hear the school bus

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Speaker 6: up the drive driveway, he didn't hear anything else, cars

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Speaker 6: peeling off, the bus taking off.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 6: I think we have a lot of information here and

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Speaker 6: for all the cherries out there. We cannot stop until

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Speaker 6: we explore every single aspect of this case. We have

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Speaker 6: to search for all these missing children.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting you mentioned the bus driver, and

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Speaker 2: of course you got to look at the bus driver.

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Speaker 2: But by all accounts, the bus driver drove off. He

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Speaker 2: didn't take cherry. Although you have to look. When we

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Speaker 2: say someone she knows, that doesn't mean it's the uncle

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Speaker 2: or the grandpa. It could be, as you're saying, a

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Speaker 2: bus driver, a school teacher, a neighbor, a neighbor. How

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Speaker 2: easily could a neighbor have snatched her and taken her

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Speaker 2: into his home, raped her and murdered her very easily?

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Speaker 1: She was gone just like that.

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Speaker 2: So I know we're talking about the potential two car

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Speaker 2: theory that multiple people were involved in stealing cherry. But

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Speaker 2: I often think, or brand that the most obvious.

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Speaker 1: Answer is the answer.

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Speaker 2: Herb Brandt is joining me guys Senior Inspector US Marshall

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Speaker 2: Service International Investigations. He was also with DJ in international affairs.

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Speaker 2: He has worked all over the world with the US government,

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Speaker 2: including embassies abroad, trying to bring home and missing people

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Speaker 2: and catch perps that have absconded.

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Speaker 1: Is the author of a whole series of books about.

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Speaker 2: Jack Solo, who I believe is IRV Brandt, specifically Flying Solo,

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Speaker 2: Top of the World and more.

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Speaker 1: IRV way in on this.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not saying I always think it that walks

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Speaker 2: like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck,

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Speaker 2: it's a duck, but very often it is.

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Speaker 5: You're exactly right, Nancy, and that's where you start an investigation.

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Speaker 5: You start an investigation with the most obvious it's Alkham's

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Speaker 5: raisor the simplest explanation is usually the correct explanation. So

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Speaker 5: when you're investigating the case, the first thing you look

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Speaker 5: for is to fam members, and you're just going on

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Speaker 5: that by past history of cases where and missing persons

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Speaker 5: cases family members are usually somehow involved. Then you expand

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Speaker 5: it out to neighbors, to people that know it, like

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Speaker 5: you were talking about bus driver, teacher, someone like that,

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Speaker 5: someone who knows the routes, and then you expand further,

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Speaker 5: and then eventually you're going to get into complex theories.

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Speaker 5: When you start running out of leads or lack of leads,

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Speaker 5: you're going to start venturing into complex theories of multiple

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Speaker 5: vehicles and multiple people and things. And it is possible,

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Speaker 5: but like you said before, it's not likely. And usually

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Speaker 5: the simplest explanation is the correct explanation.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's really hard for me to believe that

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Speaker 2: there are multiple kidnappers going after this one little girl,

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Speaker 2: and after all.

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Speaker 1: This time, no one has blabbed.

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Speaker 2: It's possible, yes, probable, No, although I am very interested

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Speaker 2: in the van. To Mollie Miller, a crime reporter at

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Speaker 2: Butler Eagle, tell me about the van. We've referred to it,

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Speaker 2: but describe it for me.

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Speaker 4: So an initial sketch came out a few days after

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Speaker 4: Cherry was abducted. It was described by school children as

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Speaker 4: a blue or green van with a mountain scene and

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Speaker 4: skier or skiers painted on the side. There's some discrepancy there.

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Speaker 4: It also had porthole windows in the back. But less

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Speaker 4: than a week after her disappearance, people started speculating that

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Speaker 4: maybe it was a bush beer van given the similarity

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Speaker 4: of the landscape on the side. So people were searching

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Speaker 4: into that. Police were searching into it and they got

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Speaker 4: nearly I mean, over the years four hundred reports of

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Speaker 4: this one van being seen in West Virginia, all across

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Speaker 4: the county, even as close as Pittsburgh. But unfortunately nothing

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Speaker 4: has been really nailed down as far as the make

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Speaker 4: of the van. The closest speculation people have as it's

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Speaker 4: a nineteen seventy six Dodge style van.

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Speaker 1: And describe what is painted on the side of it.

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Speaker 4: Yes, so people are saying it's a mountain scene, specifically

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Speaker 4: one peak of a mountain going up the center of

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Speaker 4: the van, almost overlapping the windows, and this would be

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Speaker 4: a white mountain blue background, and then a skier going

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Speaker 4: down the side. It appears to be the left side

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Speaker 4: of the slope. People are saying it's either painted on

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Speaker 4: or it was decaled on and stuck on.

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Speaker 2: Parents call police immediately, which even narrows the timeline more

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Speaker 2: the timeline in which this eight year old little girl

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Speaker 2: could be snatched off the bus. In the last days,

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Speaker 2: a woman claims she is Cherry Listen.

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Speaker 3: A woman logs onto the Memories of Cherry may And

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Speaker 3: Facebook page claiming to be the little girl last seen

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Speaker 3: walking from her school bus to the driveway of her

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Speaker 3: house Cherry's mother, Janice McKinney, sees the post and contacts

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Speaker 3: the Pennsylvania State Police. The State Police have their own

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Speaker 3: contact with a woman when she leaves them a voicemail

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Speaker 3: making the same claim she is Cherry Mayhon. Janis McKinney

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Speaker 3: knows better than to get her hopes up, as three

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Speaker 3: other women have come forward previously making the same claim.

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Speaker 2: Oh my stars, let's just put in the family through

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Speaker 2: more pure hell by a woman claiming to be Cherry

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Speaker 2: or is she? Mollie Miller joining us investigative reporter at

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Speaker 2: the Butler Eagle, Mollie tell me about this woman now

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Speaker 2: claiming she's Cherry.

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Speaker 4: Well, as she said, she logs in to the public

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Speaker 4: Facebook forum Memories of Cherry Mayhan and the post literally

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Speaker 4: just reads I am Cherry Mayhan and has a phone

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Speaker 4: number that actually comes out from Tennessee. And then she,

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Speaker 4: I guess, has some back and forth with some people

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Speaker 4: in the forum and becomes fair aggressive. The posts have

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Speaker 4: since been taken down, but one of the administrators of

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Speaker 4: the page said that because of the aggression of the comments,

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Speaker 4: there was cause for suspicion. She did leave a voicemail

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Speaker 4: with police, but then wouldn't respond to any return at calls.

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Speaker 4: A couple days later, police actually said that they were

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Speaker 4: able to review fingerprints from this woman calling herself Cherry,

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Speaker 4: but it was not a match.

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Speaker 2: This has happened many times in the past and other

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Speaker 2: missing child cases.

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Speaker 1: Isn't it a simple matter of DNA listen?

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Speaker 7: Investigating the recent online post in a voicemail message left

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Speaker 7: with the state Police from a woman claiming to be

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Speaker 7: Cherry Mahan, investigators go to work trying to verify the claim,

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Speaker 7: reaching out to the woman that the phone number and

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Speaker 7: address she left. Pennsylvania State Police investigators failed to make

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Speaker 7: contact with the woman at the phone number and address

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Speaker 7: provided by the person. However, investigators obtained fingerprints for the

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Speaker 7: name of the person left by the caller, and they

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Speaker 7: are not a match with Cherry Mahan.

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Speaker 2: The search continues, so that match or mismatch in this

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Speaker 2: case is made from taking the woman claiming to be

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Speaker 2: Cherry Man and comparing it to known prince A little girl, Cherry,

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Speaker 2: your fingerprints don't change. Your fingertips may grow from childhood, obviously,

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Speaker 2: but the sworld patterns on your fingertips never change. No

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Speaker 2: one has a perfect match to your fingerprints. Even if

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Speaker 2: you're an identical twin. As I said, this has happened

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Speaker 2: so many times in the past, people coming forward claiming

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Speaker 2: their high profile missing child.

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Speaker 1: I guess one of the most famous.

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Speaker 2: Of those cases would be that a little girl, Mattie mckinn.

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Speaker 3: Listen, The search for Mattie McCann seems to be over

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Speaker 3: as a woman on Facebook claims to be the little

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Speaker 3: girl who disappears from a hotel room while on vacation

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Speaker 3: with her parents. Julia Wendell a DNA test that proves

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Speaker 3: she is one hundred percent Polish and not Mattie McCann,

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Speaker 3: But that doesn't stop Wendell from showing up at a

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Speaker 3: memorial service to commemorate the anniversary of Mattie's disappearance, hoping

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Speaker 3: to get Kate and Jerry McCann to provide a DNA

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Speaker 3: sample that the hoaxer claims will prove she is their

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Speaker 3: missing daughter. Wendall has done this before, claiming to be

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Speaker 3: a missing German schoolgirl and a missing American toddler.

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Speaker 1: Oh my stars, what a fake you know?

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Speaker 2: Er Bryant joining us, you have traveled the world, finding

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Speaker 2: missing people and apprehending convicts and fugitives.

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Speaker 1: The Mattie McCann case blew.

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Speaker 2: Up when Mattie was taken from a vacation rental and

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Speaker 2: her parents have led us search for Maddie for years,

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Speaker 2: and then this woman jumps up claiming she's Mattie McCann.

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Speaker 1: Do you recall this?

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Speaker 5: That's correct, Nancy the uh as you know, and I

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Speaker 5: know in these high profile cases, you've get a lot

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Speaker 5: of disturbed people calling in and their need for attention,

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Speaker 5: and it has unfortunately you have well not unfortunately, but

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Speaker 5: you have to follow every lead and you've got to

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Speaker 5: disprove this and it's part of the job, and it's

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Speaker 5: a waste of time and it's a waste of resources,

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Speaker 5: but it's something that has to be done every single time.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Mattie McCann's faker, the impersonator pretending to be Maddie,

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Speaker 2: causing all sorts of pain to Mattie's parents.

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Speaker 1: That happened straight back.

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Speaker 2: To Lynn Shaw joining us, founder and director of Lynn's Warriors.

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Speaker 1: I wonder what.

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Speaker 2: Motivates people to pretend they're the missing child.

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Speaker 1: All these years later.

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Speaker 2: And it breaks my heart that Cherry's mom tries to

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Speaker 2: quote not get her hopes up when she hears that

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Speaker 2: someone has emerged claiming to be Cherry.

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Speaker 1: That means that she is so at the end of.

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Speaker 2: Her rope, so beaten down, she doesn't even dare to

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Speaker 2: hope anymore.

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Speaker 6: I have so many questions, Nancy. First of all, people

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Speaker 6: seek attention, especially in the last two decades with the Internet.

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Speaker 6: Everybody wants their fifteen minutes of fame.

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Speaker 1: I have so many.

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Speaker 6: Questions, such as, there's the Cherry Mayhan Facebook group. There's

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Speaker 6: lots of Facebook groups with missing children. I want to

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Speaker 6: know why this particular woman, as far as we know

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Speaker 6: it's a woman, is claiming to be Cherry. Why is

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Speaker 6: she on that Facebook group? I also want to know,

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Speaker 6: what if this woman claiming to be Cherry, who gave

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Speaker 6: the name to the police, the phone number to the police.

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Speaker 6: What if she just gave it another person's name, So

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Speaker 6: of course the fingerprints aren't going to match at all.

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Speaker 6: I have so many questions. I go back to even

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Speaker 6: the van. The first thing I do is pull in

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Speaker 6: a garage somewhere and get rid of the very locally

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Speaker 6: nearby and switch off. It has to be in this

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Speaker 6: circle of somebody Cherry knows. And the other thing is

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Speaker 6: the internet. The Internet we have to keep talking about

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Speaker 6: it as great at it as it is, and it's

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Speaker 6: not going away. It is fueling these people to come

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Speaker 6: forward just to say and get their kicks. And that's

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Speaker 6: the way I have to put it.

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Speaker 1: Kicks.

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Speaker 6: We have a well documented mental health crisis in the

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Speaker 6: United States and now people have found a new avenue

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Speaker 6: of tormenting, tormenting parents and family members of missing kids.

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Speaker 6: And there are a lot of Cherry's stories out there

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Speaker 6: and it has to be more well vetted. The other

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Speaker 6: thing I want to leave you with, we have so

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Speaker 6: much advances in DNA. As everybody knows. What about the advances.

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Speaker 6: We work with a lot of great tech people. If

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Speaker 6: this person was on that Facebook page, they should be

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Speaker 6: able to go back and track that URL where she

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Speaker 6: was communicating from. So I have lots of questions, Nancy

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Speaker 6: that need answers.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of DNA, I wonder if Cherry's da has been

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Speaker 2: added into the DNA database.

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Speaker 1: It's not hard to do.

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Speaker 2: You don't have to have a bugle swab or give

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Speaker 2: your blood in order for there to be a DNA.

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Speaker 1: Profile of you.

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Speaker 2: It's simply a matter of parents using her hair brush

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Speaker 2: or her toothbrush or items of.

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Speaker 1: Her clothing or sheets.

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Speaker 2: It may have her hair or skin follicles or skin

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Speaker 2: on that you know to herv brand. That would be

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Speaker 2: a major step forward to find out if her DNA

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Speaker 2: is in a DNA databank.

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Speaker 5: I agree, Nancy, scientific evidence, it's some of the best

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Speaker 5: evidence you know. When we're talking about fingerprints. Fingerprints are

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Speaker 5: one reliable if you have someone claiming to be or

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Speaker 5: someone you think to be, the missing person can be

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Speaker 5: done through fingerprints in the same way with DNA. So

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Speaker 5: if you can put the DNA into the database and

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Speaker 5: you could possibly get hits and it just generates more

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Speaker 5: leads for the ball.

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Speaker 8: Six year old Timothy Pittson, picked up by mom at school,

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Speaker 8: vanishes a whirlwind destinationless journey ensues ended by his mom's

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Speaker 8: hotels suicide. But where is Timothy?

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Speaker 1: By all accounts, Mommy would never have hurt her child,

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Speaker 1: and now these years later, Timothy's family living in fear.

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Speaker 2: In f you're of what an impostor posing as Timothy?

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Speaker 1: What do we know? First of all, take a.

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Speaker 9: Listen to this will was the last time you saw

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Speaker 9: your son alive?

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Speaker 10: I dropped him off kindergarten that morning. She usually drops

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Speaker 10: him off at kindergarten, I pick him up after kindergarten,

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Speaker 10: take him a daycare, and I get out for work

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Speaker 10: and I pick them up at daycare and take him home.

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Speaker 9: But the school knows you and your wife both Yes,

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Speaker 9: what was the last thing he said to you? And

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Speaker 9: you said to him?

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Speaker 10: He said, love your dad and goalsia after school, buddy,

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Speaker 10: and I watched him run off the class.

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Speaker 2: That's Timothy's dad speaking out to our friend, doctor Field.

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Speaker 1: So what else do we know happened? Listen?

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Speaker 11: Timothy lived in Aurora, Illinois with his mother Amy and

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Speaker 11: father Jim. On May eleventh, twenty eleven, Amy picked up

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Speaker 11: Timothy from school. Cameras there captured the pair together that morning.

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Speaker 11: Later that day, when Timothy's father realized that they were gone,

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Speaker 11: he reported them missing. Investigators say Amy and Timothy traveled

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Speaker 11: more than five hundred miles over two days and were

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Speaker 11: captured together on surveillance video several times. This is the

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Speaker 11: last known sighting of Timothy ten ten am May thirteenth,

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Speaker 11: twenty eleven. They are seen checking out of a Wisconsin resort.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: The mom leaves behind a note stating that Timothy is

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Speaker 2: with a family that will keep him safe and where

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Speaker 2: he will never be found. But after she signs him

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Speaker 2: out of school minutes.

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Speaker 1: To the dad.

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Speaker 2: Oh, by the way, you were seeing that from our

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Speaker 2: friends at NIKMA National Center Missing Exploited Children.

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Speaker 1: After she signs him out from school.

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Speaker 2: Let me go to our panel, Alexis Terreschik, joining me

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Speaker 2: crime online dot Com investigative reporter. She takes him, first

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Speaker 2: of all, taking him out of school to take him

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Speaker 2: to a water park and on a very circuitous route

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Speaker 2: to fun adventures.

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Speaker 1: That's all well and good.

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Speaker 2: You know, I used to take John David out of

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Speaker 2: play school and then real school to go bowling.

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Speaker 1: Okay, is that right? Probably not?

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Speaker 2: Okay, So when I first heard that, I wasn't disturbed.

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Speaker 1: But wait a minute.

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Speaker 2: They go from correct me if I'm wrong, Alexis to

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Speaker 2: the Brookville Zoo and then they go to a water

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Speaker 2: park Wisconsin, Dell's Kalahari Resort.

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Speaker 1: Then they check.

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Speaker 2: Out of a hotel and head back to Illinois that morning.

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Speaker 2: Now in the car, isn't this true, alexis that Amy?

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Speaker 2: The mom makes multiple phone calls to family and they

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Speaker 2: can hear Timothy in the background. In fact, at one

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Speaker 2: point he's saying, hey, Mom, I'm hungry.

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Speaker 1: Nothing is a miss.

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Speaker 12: Alexis nothing at all. She called her mom. Her mom

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Speaker 12: heard the little boy in the background they were talking.

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Speaker 12: He did say he was hungry. They stopped at gas

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Speaker 12: stations and bought snacks and food. They stayed in hotels

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Speaker 12: where there was food. There was nothing that anybody was

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Speaker 12: worried about because they heard that he was alive. They

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Speaker 12: could hear him in the car, and that's what mom did.

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Speaker 12: She picked him up.

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Speaker 13: They went to a zoo was about forty five miles away,

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Speaker 13: forty five minute drive. Then they head up to the

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Speaker 13: Wisconsin mails where I've actually been on vacation. It is

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Speaker 13: like Vegas for water parks. The entire town is just

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Speaker 13: full of different water park resorts. It is heaven for

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Speaker 13: children and families. And she went there with him. They

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Speaker 13: went to water park. They had a great time. Security

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Speaker 13: footage caught them leaving there. The husband, though, is the

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Speaker 13: one that said something's amiss. I've spoken to her, but

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Speaker 13: now she's not coming back. And that was not something

441
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 13: that they planned. She'd never said, you know, I'm going

442
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 13: to take a three day vacation with him, and we're

443
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:24,880
Speaker 13: going to go do these things. He started to get

444
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 13: very worried about where his son.

445
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 2: You know, Karen started joining me where now it's psychologists

446
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 2: joining us out of Manhattan, TV radio trauma expert at

447
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 2: Karenstark dot com.

448
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: That's Karen with a sea.

449
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 2: Karen, I've taken both twins out of what they were

450
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 2: supposed to be doing and spent time with them doing

451
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 2: something fun.

452
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:47,400
Speaker 1: So that's not unusual.

453
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 2: However, in this case, mom had never done that before,

454
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 2: and she didn't tell the dad like say, for instance,

455
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,479
Speaker 2: I'm going to take Lucy somewhere and We're not going

456
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 2: to be where we're supposed to be. I tell David, hey,

457
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 2: I'm doing so and so. Or when I would take

458
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,959
Speaker 2: John David to the foot doctor, I e.

459
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: Bowling.

460
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 2: It wasn't a secret, It wasn't a big surreptitious activity

461
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 2: the way it is here. Plus what this mom did

462
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,959
Speaker 2: was out of the ordinary, Karen Stark.

463
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 14: Which these are all signs that something is really a

464
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 14: miss Nancy, just like you said, because why would the

465
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 14: father or not know. As a matter of fact, this

466
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 14: dad went to the school to pick him up at

467
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 14: the end of the day and had no idea that

468
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 14: he had been checked out by the mom. She was

469
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,360
Speaker 14: not in touch with him and an Initially she wasn't

470
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 14: in touch with anyone, so of course it's highly suspicious

471
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 14: behavior and nothing that you would expect from a parent.

472
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 8: Timothy Pittson's mom leaves a bizarre suicide note claiming the

473
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 8: six year old is safe but will be seen again.

474
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 8: Is the boy dead or stashed with a cult like commune?

475
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:11,159
Speaker 2: Mommy found dead? No sign of Timothy. This is how

476
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 2: Timothy Pittson goes missing. In the last months, this case

477
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 2: has bubbled back up to the surface because the Pitson

478
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 2: family living in fear because of an impostor posing as Timothy.

479
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: But back to the time he disappears.

480
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 15: Listen, Amy fry Pittson's cell phone was not in her

481
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 15: hotel room or car. Two years later, her cell phone

482
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 15: is found discarded behind a silo on a remote road

483
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 15: in Mount Carroll, Illinois, from Sterling, Illinois, where fry Pittson

484
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 15: made several phone calls. Mount Carroll is on the way

485
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 15: to Dubukee, Iowa. In her childhood, fry Pittson spent several

486
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 15: years living with her grandparents in Dubuque. Fry Pittson's sister,

487
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 15: Kara Jacobs, believes Amy still has connections in the area

488
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 15: and pass blue left Timothy with a family there.

489
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: Joining me in All Star panel.

490
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 2: But now to IRV Brandt, renowned US Marshall Service, International

491
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 2: Investigations Branch, Chief Inspector Dog, Office of International Affair, author

492
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 2: of a string of books about a guy named Jack

493
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 2: Solo who bears an amazing similarity to IRV Brandt. Author

494
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 2: Solo Shot Curse of the Bluestone on Amazon and many more.

495
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 2: IRV Brant, You've spent your whole career figuring out where

496
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 2: is somebody? Now think about this. This mom had never

497
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 2: displayed any violence at all to Timothy Pittson, ever, very loving.

498
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 2: A divorce was pending. She was very distraught about that.

499
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 2: So we find her dead in hotel room. I note

500
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 2: this says, Timothy's alive, but I've given him to a

501
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 2: family that will take care of him and love him.

502
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: You'll never find him. And then her cell phone.

503
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 2: Turns up up out of town full of good memories

504
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 2: for her. She spent time a lot of time with

505
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 2: her grandparents there and was very happy.

506
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: So what do you make of this?

507
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 5: Well, Nancy, the circumstances evolving the disappearance of this case

508
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 5: would lead investigators to believe.

509
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: Number one, just.

510
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 5: The state of mind that she must have been in

511
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 5: when she committed suicide is just so unusual. The manner

512
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,959
Speaker 5: that she did, then the places that she chose to

513
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 5: go to. You would imagine that the first thing that

514
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 5: they would investigate it as a suicide homicide. But given

515
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 5: the information, the family background, you have to consider the

516
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 5: possibility that she did indeed give Timothy to someone from

517
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 5: her past that she still had a connection with, who

518
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 5: would care for the child. That's a possibility that the

519
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 5: investigators have to check out and have to focus on.

520
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 5: They have to focus on the child being alive first

521
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 5: and foremost.

522
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 2: Well, wait a minute, wait a minute, or Brandt, She's

523
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 2: not a master criminal. She's a mom who has always

524
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 2: shown nothing but love for this child. She's distraught about

525
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 2: a divorce. Yes, she had to be beside herself to

526
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 2: commit suicide by slashing.

527
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 1: Her wrists and her own neck.

528
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,959
Speaker 2: She writes this note Timothy is alive and well and

529
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 2: with someone that will love him, inferring the father wouldn't

530
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 2: and maybe she felt that way because she felt rejected

531
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 2: in the marriage he was divorcing her. She also writes,

532
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 2: you'll never find him my point er Brandt, again, she's

533
00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 2: not a master criminal. She's not some French arts or

534
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 2: a cat burglar. You really think she could have hidden

535
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 2: his body and it would be never found.

536
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 5: Nancy, I understand what you're saying that she's not a

537
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 5: career criminal or a criminal at all. She's someone obviously

538
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 5: with mental health problems and has a history of mental

539
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 5: health problems. But is she capable of it? I would

540
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 5: say yes. But does the possibility exist that she did

541
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 5: turn this child over that she did know? Of course,

542
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,479
Speaker 5: she loved her child and she wanted to see her

543
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 5: child safe. Did she give this child to someone who

544
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 5: would care for him? Yes, there is that possibility.

545
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 2: Well, especially IRV Brandt, the fact that we know she

546
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 2: was back in this area that she loved. We know

547
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 2: that because her phone was found behind a silo in

548
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 2: a rural area where she grew up with her grandparents.

549
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 2: So the child there, we've got her cell phone there,

550
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 2: we know she was there. And then suddenly when she's

551
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 2: back at this motel where she killed herself, there was

552
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 2: no sign of him. Remember she was spotted out in

553
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 2: about We saw that video from NICKMA National Center Missing

554
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 2: Exploited Children. We saw that video, and that was the

555
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 2: last time she was seen with Timothy Okay.

556
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: The next time.

557
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 2: She's spotted no Timothy Okay, one hundred miles away shaking

558
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 2: into the motel. It says, if she stashed him somewhere

559
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 2: and then come back to this motel to kill herself

560
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 2: or Brant.

561
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 5: I agree, Nancy, when you watch the videos and you

562
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 5: look how she's acting when she comes in, she doesn't

563
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 5: seem distraught. She doesn't seem like babe, I mean, someone

564
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 5: who just killed their own child. She seems you could

565
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 5: even describe her as maybe even being relieved coming in

566
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 5: because she knows this episode is going to be close

567
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 5: to finish, because she obviously planned this out.

568
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 3: Just as the Pittson family starts to believe that beloved

569
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 3: Timothy may finally be found, their hopes are dashed. A

570
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 3: DNA test reveals that the mystery team is really twenty

571
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,959
Speaker 3: three year old Brian Reeney. Reenie was released from prison

572
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 3: for burglary in vandalism the month before, and finds himself

573
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 3: in more legal trouble. Rene is charged with two counts

574
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 3: of falsifying statements and aggravated identity theft. Renee takes a

575
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 3: plea deal and serves a total of two years in prison.

576
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 2: Joining me now founder director of Lynn's Warriors, dedicated to

577
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 2: protecting children Lynn Shaw. Lynn Rennie is not the only

578
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,479
Speaker 2: one that pretended to be Timothy Pittson, and the family

579
00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 2: has stated every time an apostle comes forward is quote

580
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 2: like ripping off a scab, making them real live the

581
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 2: pain all over again.

582
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 6: Nancy, we work extensively with trying to find missing children.

583
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 6: We work on murder children. This is the case and

584
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 6: it's been escalating over the years that people step forward

585
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 6: pretending for their fifteen minutes of fame or whatever we're

586
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 6: calling it. In today's world, there are so many I'm

587
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 6: surprised there are not more people stepping forward about this.

588
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 6: But I want to circle back on something if I

589
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 6: might to. I was doing digging in and doing research

590
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 6: and in a lot of cases we work on law

591
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 6: enforcement with us as our partners tell us, if we

592
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 6: don't find an actual body or a child alive within

593
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 6: forty eight hours, we usually assume that they are not alive.

594
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 6: And I ask you, if her cell phone was found

595
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 6: two years later behind a silo wherever they found it

596
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 6: in the field, what was the investigation like for the

597
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 6: body because I have to ask he was at that

598
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,720
Speaker 6: impressurable age of six, or he could have been handed

599
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 6: off and his mind sort of brainwashed into another environment

600
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 6: where he forgot about his family.

601
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:07,399
Speaker 1: But I ask you, this.

602
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 6: Whole thing sounds like she's going through a divorce. They

603
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 6: had money problems. We have dealt with cases where one

604
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 6: of the mother, the father, one of them will say

605
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 6: in a divorce, if I can have my child full time,

606
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 6: nobody's going to have my child, and it doesn't matter

607
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 6: if they're a loving mother, they have no criminal history,

608
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 6: they will take the life of that child. And that

609
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,240
Speaker 6: is what concerns me here. So I think more work.

610
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 6: We can never give up on looking for these missing

611
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 6: children at all.

612
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 2: And for all we know, Timothy Pittson is alive and well,

613
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 2: living right under our noses with another family that he's

614
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 2: convinced is his own now. According to those closest to

615
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 2: mom Amy, she would never have hurt Timothy no matter what.

616
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 2: Listen to her sister.

617
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 16: My nephew Timothy has been missing since May thirteenth, twenty eleven.

618
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 11: Timothy Pittson was six years old when he vanished.

619
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 16: We just believe with every fiber of our being that

620
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 16: he's alive. So without any kind of logic to give you,

621
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 16: I can just tell you I know that he's alive.

622
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 16: Amy would never hurt her child, And I know that

623
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 16: maybe that's hard for some people to grasp given what

624
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 16: she did to herself, but she just wouldn't have. She

625
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 16: had nothing but kindness and consideration for other people in

626
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 16: her life.

627
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 2: A body has never been found, and again, this mom

628
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,760
Speaker 2: is a criminal mastermind. Where would she have hidden the body?

629
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 2: Now you were hearing Timothy's aunt, Kara Jacobs from our

630
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 2: friends at NIKMA National Center Missing and Exploited Children, who

631
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 2: have also been working on this case. So those around

632
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 2: her are convinced Mom did not kill Timothy. So now

633
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 2: all these years later, we have people appearing, one after

634
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 2: the mix, pretending to be Timothy.

635
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: Now a quality of blos blood was found.

636
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 2: It was Timothy's, but guess what it was proven to

637
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 2: have been from a previous nose bleed he had in

638
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:08,760
Speaker 2: the car.

639
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 1: So another dead end.

640
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 2: It's not the first time a seemingly normal person pretends

641
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 2: to be a missing child. Remember earlier we mentioned Maddie McCann.

642
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 2: Listen to this.

643
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 9: She says that she believes she is Madeline McCann. But

644
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 9: many have speculated that Julia may not be telling the

645
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 9: truth her own parents. I think she's an attention seeker,

646
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 9: and they say no for certain that she's their daughter,

647
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 9: because the mother says she delivered her. You just have

648
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 9: to take their DNA and your DNA.

649
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 7: And I tried to do it many times. As I said,

650
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 7: I called many authorities.

651
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 1: Nobody asked for it, right.

652
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 2: I'm sure Scotland Yard just wouldn't pick up the phone

653
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 2: the DNA didn't match. That's not Maddy McCann bottom line, Karen,

654
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 2: start with me, renounced psychologist, Karen. Why would someone torture

655
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 2: Timothy Pittson's family this way, pretending to be Timothy.

656
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: They need to have.

657
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:16,359
Speaker 14: The attention, Nancy. They're looking to be noticed, and of

658
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 14: course they will get this little bit of attention. Exactly

659
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 14: what was said. But I also want to say something.

660
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 14: This is a mother who said that she was terrified

661
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 14: if something happened to her and they got divorced, that

662
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 14: her son would be taken away from her. So I

663
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 14: just want everybody to consider, how does it make sense

664
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 14: if she was that frightened he would be taken away,

665
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 14: that she would give him to another family. I don't

666
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,760
Speaker 14: understand that, and I'm afraid that that really didn't happen

667
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 14: because it doesn't fit. They were supposedly like two peas

668
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,879
Speaker 14: in a pot, so that scenario I just I hear

669
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 14: a lot of anger even in the suicide. I know

670
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 14: desper but people do kill themselves because they are so angry.

671
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:11,320
Speaker 2: Is Timothy Pittson alive? Is he hiding right under our noses?

672
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 2: If you know or you think you know the answer

673
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:20,280
Speaker 2: to this riddle, dial six three zero two five six

674
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 2: five five one six repeat six three zero two.

675
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: Five six five five one six.

676
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 2: Prayers continue for the families of these missing children. Nancy

677
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 2: Gray signing off, good night friend,