Speaker 1: I always say like shows are like kids. I have
Speaker 1: no children, So this is as close as I can
Speaker 1: get to the analogy in that the oldest show is
Speaker 1: like having a kid who's left the house and has
Speaker 1: gone to college or is so when there's an emergency,
Speaker 1: when there's a real issue, you check in. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: celebrate birthdays, you know it's correct. You make yourself available
Speaker 1: for whatever's necessary. But honestly, you you spend a lot
Speaker 1: of time lauding them for their thriving survival in Hi,
Speaker 1: I'm Betsy Beers and I make television.
Speaker 2: Hi, everybody, you found us. If you were looking, you
Speaker 2: have found us. We are off the beat and I
Speaker 2: am your host. Brian Bamgartner. I'm very excited about today's gat.
Speaker 2: You know, usually we talk to actors, or we talk
Speaker 2: to athletes, sometimes musicians, but today I'm talking to a
Speaker 2: powerhouse in television. She is the force behind many of
Speaker 2: your favorite shows.
Speaker 3: She is Betsy Beers.
Speaker 2: Now she's not the face you see on screen, but
Speaker 2: she is someone whose work you know and I promise
Speaker 2: you love. She is the producing partner of Shonda Rhymes.
Speaker 2: And even though Shonda's name is the one in the
Speaker 2: title of Shonda Lant. Betsy has always been right beside
Speaker 2: her from day one on Grey's Anatomy. She's also executive
Speaker 2: produced Private Practice, The Catch, Scandal for the People, How
Speaker 2: To Get Away with Murder Station nineteen Bridgerton, Inventing Anna,
Speaker 2: and Upcoming The Residence. She is amazing and you are
Speaker 2: going to love what she has to say today. Before
Speaker 2: she was the other half of the Shondaland Empire, she
Speaker 2: brought you some of your favorite indie classics like Safe
Speaker 2: Passage with Susan Sarandon, Two Hundred Cigarettes with Ben Afflack
Speaker 2: and Kate Hudson, High Fidelity, The Hoax, Just Chef's Kiss
Speaker 2: to all of it. And apart from her amazing body
Speaker 2: of work, she has an amazing story to tell as well,
Speaker 2: from studying to be an actor to realizing maybe it
Speaker 2: wasn't her calling to where she is today. This is
Speaker 2: a fascinating conversation for me. I know it will be
Speaker 2: for you as well. Here she is the incredible Betsy bears.
Speaker 3: Bubble and Squeak.
Speaker 2: I love it, Bubble and Squeakano.
Speaker 1: Bubble and Squeaker, cook it every move from the Nuo.
Speaker 2: Hi Betsy, Hi, Hi Brian, how are you.
Speaker 1: I'm peachey. It's a Monday after holiday, and I'm peachee.
Speaker 2: You said it was a Monday after the holiday. I
Speaker 2: just I don't want to scare you. It's tuesday.
Speaker 1: Oh no, oh no, I did it again.
Speaker 3: It's tuesday.
Speaker 1: It's the last weekend. Oh no?
Speaker 3: Was it?
Speaker 2: Was?
Speaker 3: It a good weekend?
Speaker 1: It was lovely. Thank you for asking. It was actually
Speaker 1: relatively relaxing and relatively planned free, which sometimes is the
Speaker 1: best thing personally for me. I just it was. It was.
Speaker 1: It was pretty chill, which was good. How about you.
Speaker 3: That's good.
Speaker 2: Mine was the opposite, actually, and I'm with you. I
Speaker 2: like I like your I think I had ree barbecues
Speaker 2: in three days, my lord, I know well, and of
Speaker 2: course I end up having to cook no matter, none
Speaker 2: of them were at my house, yet I still somehow
Speaker 2: managed to be behind the grill. But it was it
Speaker 2: was nice. I mean, I appreciate you taking the time.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you had a relaxing weekend.
Speaker 3: You are well.
Speaker 2: You're you're the busiest woman is showbiz. I think well,
Speaker 2: and have been for a long time.
Speaker 1: You know, you get in less trouble if you stay busy. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're very, very fortunate to be busy and happily working
Speaker 1: and all that other kind of good stuff. So it's, uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's been a little aerobic, and you know it's good.
Speaker 1: Everyone's well, just to sit and stare into space and
Speaker 1: walk the.
Speaker 3: Dog, that's right, you know.
Speaker 2: Well, that's that's why I cook. That's because then I
Speaker 2: don't have to think about anything else.
Speaker 3: Exactly.
Speaker 1: My husband does all the cooking, and that's partially why
Speaker 1: he cooks. Is he just just like I'm going to
Speaker 1: stand here and cook and y'all can greu what heck
Speaker 1: you want to talk about?
Speaker 2: All right, Well, we have a lot to talk about today,
Speaker 2: I know, I know. Just don't get nervous. It's fine.
Speaker 2: Just think of it this way. It's my this is
Speaker 2: me auditioning you. Okay, that's all it is. So don't
Speaker 2: get nervous.
Speaker 1: Just as I don't have to do like an up
Speaker 1: tempo and a ballot. I'm fine.
Speaker 3: Oh here's here's the thing. It's just like they say,
Speaker 3: when you're auditioning.
Speaker 2: I want to like you, so I want I want
Speaker 2: I want to think that you're right for this, Betsy.
Speaker 2: So don't don't be nervous. There's no reasons.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's good. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, and I understand after my extensive research team and
Speaker 2: myself did some research on you. You you you started
Speaker 2: out acting. We're going to talk about that in a minute.
Speaker 2: But you you grew up in Massachusetts. No, no, no, I.
Speaker 1: Grew up to Long Island.
Speaker 3: There you go.
Speaker 1: Okay, where's that correct team? Right now?
Speaker 3: That's what I There you go.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a common mistake. Ran, it's a common mistake.
Speaker 2: I love, okay, because you went to you went to
Speaker 2: Milton there, the boarding school in Massachusetts, but you came
Speaker 2: from Long Island. I was just there roundabouts last week,
Speaker 2: beautiful area of the country. Tell me a little bit
Speaker 2: about you growing up there on Long Island? Are you
Speaker 2: interested in as a as a kid?
Speaker 1: I was interested in mainly acting. Actually, Like I grew up.
Speaker 1: To give you some backstory, my father was an agent.
Speaker 1: He was older when he had me. He died when
Speaker 1: I was pretty young, but I had a number of
Speaker 1: formative years with him where we spent a lot of
Speaker 1: time at home. My mother was working. He happened to
Speaker 1: be there, and a lot of what I learned in
Speaker 1: terms of how to identify people read, came from city
Speaker 1: with him and watching television or reading books about plays
Speaker 1: because he was a theater agent. Okay, And so from
Speaker 1: a really early age, it seemed like the only thing
Speaker 1: that was interesting was acting. I liked that, and I
Speaker 1: liked reading, and I liked badminton weirdly because we had
Speaker 1: a badminton.
Speaker 3: That and I really long. That's a long island thing, right,
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Man, I don't know. Like I think it was the
Speaker 1: only thing we could fit in the yard, right, you know?
Speaker 1: It was like so, and I loved to torture my
Speaker 1: sister by following her around too is my older sister,
Speaker 1: and desperately trying to get involved in every single thing
Speaker 1: she was doing, which of course meant that she would
Speaker 1: figure out jobs for me to do, like pick up
Speaker 1: dog poop and that's what, So, this is your job?
Speaker 1: You wanted to help so long, within a way of saying, like,
Speaker 1: very very early on, I thought, wow, acting must be
Speaker 1: great because my dad loves them and they're on TV
Speaker 1: and they seem to be good. Well do you know
Speaker 1: about that too? Since you're on TV?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean I get I get a little bit
Speaker 2: about why that would be attractive for people.
Speaker 3: You But so when did you start? When did you
Speaker 3: go to boarding school? Is this your board?
Speaker 1: I went to boarding school. Now, it wasn't like Dickensie
Speaker 1: and I was five type thing.
Speaker 3: Okay, it was.
Speaker 1: I went to boarding school when I was about fourteen
Speaker 1: thirteen fourteen. It was my sophomore year in high school.
Speaker 1: So my school, my elementary school, finished in ninth grade
Speaker 1: and then you either had to go off to a
Speaker 1: high school or go way to boarding school. So both
Speaker 1: my sisters went to boarding school. A lot of the
Speaker 1: people at the school went to boarding school, so it
Speaker 1: was not it was not a you know, incredibly untoward
Speaker 1: or unknown thing to me because I'd watched both sisters
Speaker 1: go off.
Speaker 3: And do it. Right. Do you do?
Speaker 2: You do you feel like that being on your own early?
Speaker 2: Was there an independence thing that you gained there? And
Speaker 2: partly I'll tell you why I asked because because I
Speaker 2: didn't go to boarding school, but I did go to
Speaker 2: this program between junior and senior year of high school
Speaker 2: where I went to Northwestern.
Speaker 3: University for oh wow, eight.
Speaker 2: Weeks or something and was studying theater there. And I
Speaker 2: was like, probably too young to do that, but I
Speaker 2: was like, oh wow, like, this is what it means
Speaker 2: to like be on my own. And even I remember,
Speaker 2: you know, taking is at the l right, taking it
Speaker 2: in from from Northwestern into the city. I saw a
Speaker 2: baseball game, like on my own. It's like, wait, this
Speaker 2: doesn't happen at home. There's there's just sort of a
Speaker 2: level of independence you have just just by having that space.
Speaker 2: I feel like you you begin to do things on
Speaker 2: your own a little bit earlier. You think that's true.
Speaker 1: Can I ask you a question, did you ever go
Speaker 1: to camp? I did, yes, because camp was sort of
Speaker 1: like the starter kit in a way, Like I went
Speaker 1: away to camp. I went to a sleepway camp, and yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like boarding school. There there were house mothers and
Speaker 1: there are people in charge and stuff. But it was
Speaker 1: definitely the first time I was really away from home
Speaker 1: and I sort of understood that, yeah, your your whole
Speaker 1: life and sort of personality and the way you reacted
Speaker 1: wasn't solely dependent on your home situation. Because I know,
Speaker 1: like for me, I ended up loving camp and I
Speaker 1: loved boarding school. I think it was a wise thing
Speaker 1: at a particular point for me to get out of
Speaker 1: the house. It just it was there was more for
Speaker 1: me to explore and more to do. And at that
Speaker 1: stage of the game, both my sisters, who were older
Speaker 1: were out of the house and I was alone with
Speaker 1: my mother.
Speaker 2: So it's you know, which God bless her understanding here?
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, you.
Speaker 1: Might, you might, you might know what that that feels like. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was. I found boarding school to be the most amazing,
Speaker 1: delightful experience ever. And I I think I found a
Speaker 1: lot of my own confidence there. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you felt that way by going to your Stinton Northwestern,
Speaker 1: but I really started to develop my own voice, I
Speaker 1: really started to understand what and I had a great education.
Speaker 1: Milton is a great school, and you know, I think
Speaker 1: it was just this amazing exposure to all this all
Speaker 1: these different areas of study and people who were both
Speaker 1: the same and different, and it was I loved. I
Speaker 1: loved the experience. I found incredibly liberating.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Uh, you go to Williams College, prestigious, Williams prestige college.
Speaker 2: Uh and and you studied acting there. So at this point,
Speaker 2: is this what you.
Speaker 3: Want to do? You want to you want to be
Speaker 3: repped by your dad or whatever, and you want to
Speaker 3: be an actor.
Speaker 1: Well, my father, unfortunately died to get out, clearly, clearly,
Speaker 1: to get out of repping me. I think we should
Speaker 1: just we should just make it clear.
Speaker 3: I made it.
Speaker 2: I made it. I made a choice, and you know what,
Speaker 2: it failed.
Speaker 1: Sorry, you know it, and it didn't fail. It just
Speaker 1: was a choice. It's fine. And you couldn't comprol whether
Speaker 1: he died or not. What are you freaking psychic?
Speaker 3: No, no, no, that wasn't in my research.
Speaker 1: Well, i'd be surprised. I'd worry about your researchers if
Speaker 1: honestly they were sitting around going like life expectancy of
Speaker 1: Betsy's family. No. I started actually like when I was
Speaker 1: about five or six. I remember I was the I
Speaker 1: was a butterfly in the local production of Noah's Ark.
Speaker 2: Remember, and I remember, I remember, Okay, it was it
Speaker 2: was amazing.
Speaker 1: It got clearly four stars on YELP.
Speaker 3: So I.
Speaker 1: Thought that it was terrific. And I kept acting all
Speaker 1: the way through elementary school, and then acted all through
Speaker 1: high school, and then acted all the way through college.
Speaker 1: So by the time I think I was twelve thirteen,
Speaker 1: I was pretty sure sure that that's what I wanted
Speaker 1: to do. But I also knew that I had to
Speaker 1: go through college, and I wanted to go through school
Speaker 1: and you know, finish all that before I before I
Speaker 1: hit the boards. So that was that was definitively what
Speaker 1: I was going to do. There was one brief period
Speaker 1: when I studied. I did a year abroad in London
Speaker 1: to study theater and literature, and I had a great
Speaker 1: literature professor who sort of said, you know, you might
Speaker 1: have you ever thought of going into literary criticism because
Speaker 1: you know how to analyze books and stories and I
Speaker 1: loved reading. And I was like, no, I want to
Speaker 1: be an actress. I just want to be loved, I
Speaker 1: you know, like you normally do. And he was like, well,
Speaker 1: this would be an interesting career path if you wanted to.
Speaker 1: And you know, I haven't thought about that until very
Speaker 1: recently when I realized, I guess that's what I'm sort
Speaker 1: of doing, is evaluating literature. So basically, yeah, I went.
Speaker 1: I got out of college, I went straight to New York.
Speaker 1: I did some summer theater and then some really bad
Speaker 1: dinner theater. Did you ever do dinner theater?
Speaker 3: I never did. If they were I needed more attention
Speaker 3: just about to.
Speaker 1: Say that it's the worst. There's nothing like doing a
Speaker 1: British force and running around like in your underwear on
Speaker 1: a stage while people are asking for prime rip, like
Speaker 1: there's just sauce. It's also like the clink clink clink
Speaker 1: clink clink of silverware and stuff. It was. It was
Speaker 1: just it was beyond humiliating and it should have been
Speaker 1: an early harbinger for my career. But I got I
Speaker 1: got to New York, and uh, it was very clear
Speaker 1: I was never going to be like Lady Macbeth. So
Speaker 1: I tried it and got into this improvisation group. And
Speaker 1: I did that and realized, oh, I really love sketching,
Speaker 1: improv comedy. Comedy seem like a real good plan.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I actually about the Dinner Theater though you know, this
Speaker 2: was this was this is a number of years ago.
Speaker 2: But I realized, and maybe the only person who has
Speaker 2: like truly emerged from Dinner Theater Amy Adams chan Hassen
Speaker 2: Dinner Theater musical theater in Minneapolis, because I spent some
Speaker 2: time in Minneapolis.
Speaker 3: So there you go. There's some fun. There's a fun
Speaker 3: fact for you today.
Speaker 1: Somebody, somebody, somebody succeeded in see you know what, you
Speaker 1: know what Amy Adams got them to put their forks
Speaker 1: and knives down for a second and focus on something
Speaker 1: besides the lava tower.
Speaker 3: That was that's right, Uh comedy, Yeah, that's I did
Speaker 3: not know.
Speaker 2: That about you. You were doing and so you fell
Speaker 2: in love with like So it was improverse, like sketch
Speaker 2: that was sketched like.
Speaker 1: I started with improv and it was a group that
Speaker 1: was around in New York when I graduated, which was
Speaker 1: the early eighties, late seventies, early eighties. Yes I'm old,
Speaker 1: and I found this group and it was kind of
Speaker 1: an offshoot of the Proposition in Boston, which were people
Speaker 1: who don't know is where, like Jane Curtin came from
Speaker 1: and was one of the along with Second City, was
Speaker 1: sort of one of the the og improv groups and
Speaker 1: I did. I performed with them for a while and
Speaker 1: then met a couple of people and we branched off
Speaker 1: and started our own group where we did sketch. I
Speaker 1: wrote the music, my friends did sketches that were based
Speaker 1: on our things, and then we did like theme shows
Speaker 1: and we performed them and I acted in commercials sometimes
Speaker 1: to support that. But I wasn't very good at that.
Speaker 1: I was way better at auditioning and making shit up
Speaker 1: and then they would take the shit I made and
Speaker 1: then they'd make it into the commercial, but they wouldn't
Speaker 1: hire me, so which was okay. And then I got,
Speaker 1: you know, the other kind of the the canary and
Speaker 1: the coal mine when one of the AD execs took
Speaker 1: me out to drink and he said, you ever thought
Speaker 1: of being an AD executive? Because you'd be amazing And
Speaker 1: I was like, no, I just want to be loved.
Speaker 1: What kind of a doctor? And let's just say, Brian,
Speaker 1: that's the way it went for a while.
Speaker 2: Well that is I I'm telling you, I have not
Speaker 2: I have not thought about this in years and years.
Speaker 3: But see, and I was.
Speaker 2: I was one of the protective ones, right like I
Speaker 2: was when I was auditioning for commercials and it would
Speaker 2: be like, just improv this moment eating pizza, and I
Speaker 2: would be like, you know what, what I come up
Speaker 2: with is better than what they're going to come up with,
Speaker 2: and then they're going to steal it from me and
Speaker 2: they're going to hire somebody else. So now, how how
Speaker 2: do I how how can I possibly succeed in this scenario?
Speaker 3: And exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1: I see you were so much smarter if if I
Speaker 1: had met you in the future, but the present for
Speaker 1: me that the future, because you'd be in the future,
Speaker 1: I would have said, you would have come to me
Speaker 1: and you would have said, dude, you've got this all wrong.
Speaker 1: They're just raping and pillaging your slightly crappy material to
Speaker 1: less crappy. I mean, how long did you do commercials?
Speaker 3: I did not very much.
Speaker 2: I mean, I I know I didn't. I mean I
Speaker 2: still have like visceral.
Speaker 3: What is it, uh two oh one South Librea one
Speaker 3: one oh one.
Speaker 2: The enormous like I have like an actor's nightmare, but
Speaker 2: not about forgetting my lines on stage, like that of
Speaker 2: walking into that bullpen where they're simultaneously auditioning for twelve
Speaker 2: commercials at one time, and I was, I was, I
Speaker 2: was a good boy, Like I would go to the
Speaker 2: doors that I actually had an appointment, and then I
Speaker 2: would watch these people too, who are probably smarter than me,
Speaker 2: probably Amy Adams, where they would want it would go,
Speaker 2: and they would they would just walk around and if
Speaker 2: they saw like a similar looking type person to that,
Speaker 2: they would just go sign in and just go audition.
Speaker 3: I'm like doing that.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's so gutsy, that's so Gutsy. I
Speaker 1: primarily auditioned badly in New York. I did some auditioning
Speaker 1: badly in LA, but I really locked it up in
Speaker 1: New York. And I remember thinking, I walked into one audition,
Speaker 1: I haven't thought about this in years because I'm having
Speaker 1: total PTSD right now right. And they also never knew
Speaker 1: what to send me out for, so it was like
Speaker 1: I was like twenty six and they sent me out
Speaker 1: for like a Tampax commercial, and they're all these girls
Speaker 1: who are twelve, and they're like, like, what am I
Speaker 1: doing here? But I remember walking walking into this one
Speaker 1: audition and Robert Morse was sitting there and he was
Speaker 1: waiting to read, like, come, I don't know ben Gate commercial,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh my god, it's Robert Morrison.
Speaker 1: For all of you who aren't listening, Robert Morse, one
Speaker 1: of the finest actors, made his name for most people
Speaker 1: and had to how to succeed in business without really
Speaker 1: trying a Broadway ended up obviously a lot of people
Speaker 1: know from mad Men, but this guy was a god
Speaker 1: to me. And I remember walking in and you have
Speaker 1: this moment you go like you can't go up to
Speaker 1: him and go like what the fuck are you doing here?
Speaker 1: Like why are you auditioning? Because like all the ship's
Speaker 1: going on in my head and this weird jinga that's happening.
Speaker 1: But part of me was going, this is not a
Speaker 1: good route. This is this is this is not a
Speaker 1: do not pass go, do not collect two hundred dollars.
Speaker 1: This is yeah, so so many, so many warnings, Brian,
Speaker 1: so many warnings.
Speaker 2: Here here's the thing, Betsy. Still, I still deal with
Speaker 2: that to this very day. So you changed, you changed paths,
Speaker 2: and that was that was very smart in.
Speaker 1: That read I changed past and I actually, in fairness,
Speaker 1: like I realized I got this job when I came
Speaker 1: out to Los Angeles. I was a really good waiter
Speaker 1: by the way, in New York, and I could not
Speaker 1: get a job waitressing in LA because in the late eighties,
Speaker 1: as a woman, you could not get a job in
Speaker 1: a fine dining restaurant as a waiter, like it was
Speaker 1: pretty much for Boton. You could go to a coffee,
Speaker 1: you could go to like edd Bebeck's, which is this
Speaker 1: old timy place that used to be, but you couldn't.
Speaker 1: And a friend of mine suggested reading scripts, and so
Speaker 1: I started reading scripts to make money. And I like
Speaker 1: sent things out blindly. I didn't really know anybody, And
Speaker 1: after like two weeks people started calling and they were like,
Speaker 1: this is really good coverage because for people who don't know,
Speaker 1: you read a script or a book and you write
Speaker 1: down the whole plot synopsis like a book report, and
Speaker 1: then you give sort of comments as to what you
Speaker 1: would do to either make it better or whether or
Speaker 1: not it sucked or And after like years of acting badly,
Speaker 1: in like three months four months, I got a job
Speaker 1: reading at a studio, at a movie studio, and they
Speaker 1: offered me this full time job. And I sat and
Speaker 1: I drove around Beverly Hills where the studio was with
Speaker 1: my friend in a car, and I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't know what to do? And he said, how do
Speaker 1: you feel when you do this? And I said, it's easy.
Speaker 1: I really like it. I can solve problems. It's like
Speaker 1: my brain works like it's a puzzle. I love puzzles.
Speaker 1: You said, how do you feel like when you're acting?
Speaker 1: I said, I love acting, but I just it's so
Speaker 1: painful and I'm just I feel like I'm not good enough.
Speaker 1: And he was like, is that your answer? And you know,
Speaker 1: dear reader, The best thing is that the super skill
Speaker 1: it gives you is when you go into producing, you
Speaker 1: love actors so much that and I genuinely love and
Speaker 1: have so much respect for actors because I don't know
Speaker 1: how the hell you do what you do, Like I think,
Speaker 1: it's such a hard job. And I can tell you
Speaker 1: for me, it was really hard.
Speaker 3: That was at United Artists, right where you started. Yeah,
Speaker 3: where you started.
Speaker 2: You started reading, and so I've got a bunch of pieces,
Speaker 2: but I want to kind of have you help me
Speaker 2: navigate what happens. So you're reading scripts and then I
Speaker 2: read you got into development at Booboo Productions. So was
Speaker 2: this a natural transition or well.
Speaker 3: It's greed.
Speaker 1: You know what. I got a mini upgrade while I
Speaker 1: was still United Artists because I got there. I started
Speaker 1: reading scripts and the same thing happened there that had
Speaker 1: happened actually with companies before I took the job, which
Speaker 1: is I started to get invited upstairs to give notes
Speaker 1: to actors like I made. I went to all the
Speaker 1: different executives and met them to try to figure out
Speaker 1: what they wanted. And one executive in particular, Ruth Vitally,
Speaker 1: who still is in the business, who was one of
Speaker 1: my first mentors. She would call me and say, I've
Speaker 1: got a writer up here. Can you basically explain what
Speaker 1: you think the script needs and give them notes? And
Speaker 1: so I didn't know. I mean, I just gave notes.
Speaker 1: And I have to tell you, Brian, like sometimes they
Speaker 1: were really famous writers and I had no idea who
Speaker 1: they were. So like Ron Shelton came in and I
Speaker 1: told him miss scrip sucked. And it was great because
Speaker 1: I would say, to blame it on me, and if
Speaker 1: it's good, you take it like it's fine. Then Ruth
Speaker 1: got a job. UA closed down and I was free
Speaker 1: lancing again, and Ruth got a job with Gary Ye
Speaker 1: of Goldberg Ubu for this short lived but mighty film development.
Speaker 1: And I had done what I think is sort of
Speaker 1: baby development in fixing people's scripts. But then we had
Speaker 1: we had a very large discretionary fund because Gary brand
Speaker 1: family ties, and you know pretty much they were incredibly generous,
Speaker 1: and I like to say, like God bless them. I
Speaker 1: got paid to learn how to develop and kind of produce,
Speaker 1: and we would basically take the discretionary fund and go
Speaker 1: out and go this person looks nice, let's try writing
Speaker 1: us a good lay had and I learned a ton
Speaker 1: and it was real boots on the ground and it
Speaker 1: was great. And so from there I went after they
Speaker 1: shut down. You might see a pattern starting here. It's okay,
Speaker 1: the pattern changes, you'll see.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna ask you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, after twenty two years, I think she's probably gonna
Speaker 1: go Yeah, I got you too. This woman, she's just
Speaker 1: got the mark.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: Then I went to work with Galen Hurd and ended
Speaker 1: up running her development and she's doing just fine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so the curse of non Harry Potter stopped.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, it's interesting your story about giving notes to
Speaker 2: famous writers and not just not knowing who they were.
Speaker 2: So you were just saying, there is a parallel that
Speaker 2: for me as well, which was I hadn't done the
Speaker 2: film and tell like I hadn't been beaten down in
Speaker 2: a way like everyone else. I had, just I was
Speaker 2: like I was working on theater production after theater production.
Speaker 2: I was just trying to do the best I could
Speaker 2: to create a character within this and make this the
Speaker 2: best show. And so when I came and I think
Speaker 2: meeting the folks on the office so fast and having
Speaker 2: that happen, definitely that was a part of I believe
Speaker 2: why that happened for me at the time, because I
Speaker 2: was too dumb slash an experience to know any better
Speaker 2: or be nervous about anything. Anyway, there's something kind of
Speaker 2: beautiful about that. I mean within your story as well,
Speaker 2: that you were given the freedom to say what you
Speaker 2: thought because you didn't know you weren't supposed to maybe right.
Speaker 1: I think that's absolutely I think that's really well put.
Speaker 1: I do think what you're describing in terms of your
Speaker 1: experience is very similar. So you don't know to be afraid,
Speaker 1: and what it did was it taught me there's no
Speaker 1: point in being afraid. I also, as anybody who knows
Speaker 1: pretty well can tell you that I have a tendency
Speaker 1: if I feel really strongly about something, you can see
Speaker 1: it all over my face. Anyway. I'm a really bad
Speaker 1: facial liar, like I learned. Actually, one place is when
Speaker 1: you're on a set and you're watching something film. It's
Speaker 1: really important to learn not to make weird faces because
Speaker 1: we may not be doing it about the acting, but
Speaker 1: every poor actor will come up and go what I do.
Speaker 1: I'm like nothing, I just the sandwich was bad, and
Speaker 1: they're like no, So I think sadly, I have a
Speaker 1: bad poker face, and I do think what it does
Speaker 1: is it does encourage you to really to act how
Speaker 1: you feel, or to follow your instinct or to because
Speaker 1: it got you that far. And when you realize that
Speaker 1: somehow or another, you gave notes to a fancy person
Speaker 1: and you didn't know that they were fancy, the next
Speaker 1: time you give notes to somebody's fancy or you're in
Speaker 1: a situation with a director or a show, you feel
Speaker 1: very confident in your own choices because I have not
Speaker 1: worked once.
Speaker 3: Right, right, twice exactly. No, that is very true.
Speaker 2: I will about about you having a poco face. I
Speaker 2: will tell you I remember the first time we met.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember.
Speaker 3: This or not.
Speaker 2: This is a long long time ago, and I can't
Speaker 2: remember exactly what it was, but it was either something
Speaker 2: in or around the Emmys, some event, and or in
Speaker 2: or around the Screen Actors Guild Awards. It was some
Speaker 2: awards party.
Speaker 1: Were we were on that same circuit.
Speaker 2: I thought, that's right, absolutely, and you were. You were
Speaker 2: just unapologetically kind to me. And I spoke about you
Speaker 2: afterward to some of my other cast mates at the time,
Speaker 2: and I was like, you know it was just really nice,
Speaker 2: and I'm sure because you were saying nice things, I
Speaker 2: was like, Betsy Beers is so she's she was just
Speaker 2: so there was something about your openness and directness and
Speaker 2: unpretension to just tell me very clearly what you thought
Speaker 2: about the show, and I know I found it like
Speaker 2: so incredibly refreshing, and I've I've we don't know each
Speaker 2: other very well at all, but I've always had just
Speaker 2: such positive thoughts about you because of that, not trying
Speaker 2: to hide, you know, not say something because oh you
Speaker 2: get that all the time, right, like people being guarded
Speaker 2: because they think they should be guarded for like why
Speaker 2: like we're just working on two different television shows, like
Speaker 2: like what difference does it make? But anyway, I didn't want.
Speaker 3: To tell you.
Speaker 1: That makes me really really happy. And I do believe
Speaker 1: that so much of what we do is it's got
Speaker 1: to be genuine enthusiasm, and I was genuinely enthusiastic about you.
Speaker 1: I was genuinely enthusiastic at the show, but especially like
Speaker 1: what you do and what you did, so I am
Speaker 1: very I feel like people don't share that enough too.
Speaker 1: I guess the deal is, you know that is it's
Speaker 1: it's exactly what you say it and it kind of
Speaker 1: it bugs me. And ask people what my pet peeves are,
Speaker 1: and one of them is just say what you mean,
Speaker 1: like just I mean I I do it to a fault.
Speaker 1: Sometimes there have been moments where you know, I've I
Speaker 1: think I've made actors freak out a little bit, or
Speaker 1: you know, great writers or whoever, where I just go
Speaker 1: up and I just I either gush or I say
Speaker 1: something really really specific. But then I don't care because
Speaker 1: I just virtually nobody hates to be told that you're
Speaker 1: they're seen, at the very least, maybe if you're actually
Speaker 1: talking to the fake president from twenty four and telling
Speaker 1: him you wish it was the real president from twenty
Speaker 1: four and he's a little weirded out. That might have
Speaker 1: happened once at a party late, but I try to
Speaker 1: keep it, you know, generally. Okay, that's great, I'm glad.
Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear it.
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 1: I do think. I think kindness and and honestly listening.
Speaker 1: Just listen to what somebody has to say. I know
Speaker 1: it sounds simple, but you're doing a podcast, you have
Speaker 1: to listen. I've done them. It's but it's just you
Speaker 1: learned so much. I don't know, it's good, but thank you.
Speaker 1: That's a really nice compliment that means a lot coming
Speaker 1: from you.
Speaker 3: Well, and it's it's it's it's true.
Speaker 2: You eventually become president, which sounds like a fancy worder.
Speaker 1: United States of America.
Speaker 2: Is an amazing transition from the story you just told
Speaker 2: of Dog Star films, two hundred cigarettes, high fidelity, pushing
Speaker 2: ten and at this point, at this point, you're you're
Speaker 2: a producer. Now, how do you define the work that
Speaker 2: you do as a producer because and I say that,
Speaker 2: one because I'm genuinely interested and want to listen, And two,
Speaker 2: there are so many different types.
Speaker 3: So for people out there, how would you define.
Speaker 2: The role that you play in these projects starting then
Speaker 2: and then moving forward.
Speaker 1: It's such a hard question to answer succinctly, because first
Speaker 1: of all, they're the same job in movies and TV.
Speaker 1: You just the focus is different in movies, and just
Speaker 1: in movies, the person who's really in charge of the
Speaker 1: vision is the director. So as a producer, your job
Speaker 1: is to me to take I believe it's everywhere from
Speaker 1: starting with an idea to acquiring piece of material to
Speaker 1: finding a writer to putting together and developing, and by
Speaker 1: that I mean working on story and figuring out different
Speaker 1: beats and how a story should play and why you
Speaker 1: want to do it, through conversations with the writer, to pitching,
Speaker 1: through production, then post and then out in the world publicity. Right, So,
Speaker 1: if I'm being cute, I would say, it's those piece
Speaker 1: but the way I see and then in TV, take
Speaker 1: the director, take that person out and make it the writer,
Speaker 1: because the writer is the showrunner. The director was always
Speaker 1: the sort of core creative vision. Fancy producers, yes, but
Speaker 1: it's usually the directors you know, the last name, And
Speaker 1: for me, it's always meant I want to make sure
Speaker 1: that I am there to help articulate the vision of
Speaker 1: the show, which means that I am I'm in service
Speaker 1: of the show. I'm always in service of whatever anybody
Speaker 1: needs to make the show as good as it can be,
Speaker 1: and that means I will I will do anything that
Speaker 1: I'm vaguely qualified to do and part of my job
Speaker 1: which I'm like vaguely qualified, but if needed, I don't
Speaker 1: go off and do it. But if needed, the important
Speaker 1: thing is that I can look at the writer, the
Speaker 1: creator and the showrunner and say what do you need
Speaker 1: me to do? Or this is what I think needs
Speaker 1: to be done, And it might be different showrunners and
Speaker 1: you know this too. Different creators of shows have different
Speaker 1: areas where they feel incredibly strongly about input, and then
Speaker 1: they have other areas where they really love to delegate.
Speaker 1: I love to be involved in every single piece that
Speaker 1: I can be, and a lot of it is how
Speaker 1: do I contribute to making the best product possible? And
Speaker 1: different people need different things. I've worked with showrunners who
Speaker 1: and you know, the folks that I work with here
Speaker 1: at Chanelan who are great, want very specific things in
Speaker 1: order to help shore up and articulate their vision. I
Speaker 1: work with other showrunners and creators who want a much
Speaker 1: more wide partnership. You know, I think it's an I
Speaker 1: frankly love partnerships. I love working closely because I think
Speaker 1: this is going to surprise you. I have a lot
Speaker 1: to say, hah. And I think that collaboration very often
Speaker 1: makes for the most fun and great television and movies.
Speaker 3: It's the best.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, if you can do everything on your own,
Speaker 2: then you don't need anybody else. And no matter how
Speaker 2: great your vision is as a writer or a director.
Speaker 2: As you indicated on the medium, you're bringing other people
Speaker 2: around to try to make it better than what you
Speaker 2: can create yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And I think one of the great things
Speaker 1: about having experiences. I've told this story before, but when
Speaker 1: I was doing two hundred Cigarettes was my first movie.
Speaker 1: We had five dollars in ninety five cents. It was
Speaker 1: four billion five year old actors. Not really you know,
Speaker 1: they were all really cool kids in their early twenties, lateeens.
Speaker 1: And it was me standing for thirty eight days, freezing
Speaker 1: my ass off all night long, every night in New York.
Speaker 1: And I'd never done anything like it before. I'd done
Speaker 1: all the steps before, but it was my first just
Speaker 1: real like almost so adventure. And I remember like somebody
Speaker 1: asked me a question and I did, like that, well,
Speaker 1: I you know, think blah blah blah blah, and it
Speaker 1: was I clearly had no idea what I was talking about.
Speaker 1: And a dude, I was like two in the morning,
Speaker 1: and I still remember we were like downtown and this
Speaker 1: it's somebody I think was like a grip was moving
Speaker 1: something and he said, can I can I just give
Speaker 1: you a piece of piece? And I said, yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm sure I know the answer, and he said,
Speaker 1: you know, it's fine to admit you don't know what
Speaker 1: you're doing. People love it when you ask for help
Speaker 1: because they love to teach you what they know. So
Speaker 1: that's okay. And I went, oh, I get it. That's
Speaker 1: that's really you're smart, that's you're not I'm not fooling anybody.
Speaker 1: And you know that. I mean, Brian, you've been through
Speaker 1: that where it's like, Okay, dude, you clearly have never
Speaker 1: done a shot list before, so just ask someone how
Speaker 1: to do the shot say you don't need a shot
Speaker 1: list or whatever the heck kid it, but I will.
Speaker 1: I will go into I always say it's a successful
Speaker 1: show or movie or project when I can walk away
Speaker 1: at the end of it and say I didn't know
Speaker 1: that thing, and I learned that I didn't know how
Speaker 1: to handle that kind of person. I didn't. I think
Speaker 1: it's a great job because there's an endless opportunity for
Speaker 1: learning and growth if you just listen, and like we
Speaker 1: always say, here and Sean and I've talked about this
Speaker 1: for reason. I think it's true. With Alison Akel and
Speaker 1: all the wonderful people in development, the whole company but
Speaker 1: I we don't want to do anything we've done again, Like,
Speaker 1: we don't do the same thing twice. And that's the biggest.
Speaker 1: One of the biggest things initially that I think we
Speaker 1: discovered when we were first starting out on Grays was,
Speaker 1: you know, ABC wanted to spin off of Grays and
Speaker 1: I think they wanted, you know, Gray's Chicago. So it's like,
Speaker 1: here's here's a girl named you know, Beredith and she's
Speaker 1: you know, it's that was terrible. I'm sorry, I don't
Speaker 1: why I said that, but you get the idea. And
Speaker 1: so we looked at each other.
Speaker 3: Idea.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we looked at it, and you know, and the doggie,
Speaker 1: and we looked at each other and we were like,
Speaker 1: do you want to do that? I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't want to do it all over again, do you?
Speaker 1: And it would have I'm sure it would have been
Speaker 1: gigantic success. But we did private practice because it was
Speaker 1: much more interesting to say, hey, those are people in
Speaker 1: their twenties, they're just starting out. What happens if you
Speaker 1: take a group of doctors that we know, some we know,
Speaker 1: so we don't, and you put them in a different
Speaker 1: time of their lives, which is late thirties early forties,
Speaker 1: when the decisions are getting really hard, you experience death,
Speaker 1: you have to make decisions about your relationships and and
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. And I think from that
Speaker 1: point on we both were sort of like, at least
Speaker 1: I can say for me, what I love is getting
Speaker 1: the opportunity to say what you want in different formats
Speaker 1: and stories and different ways.
Speaker 3: Of saying.
Speaker 2: You. I mean, it's time to make sure everybody knows
Speaker 2: what we're talking about here.
Speaker 3: Betsy.
Speaker 2: You're at the Mark Gordon Company. You meet a writer
Speaker 2: named Shonda Rhymes. Shonda Rhymes has created a show, Gray's Anatomy.
Speaker 2: You began working with her and on the show since
Speaker 2: day one. No, that's not true.
Speaker 1: There was no show. So basically we developed a pilot
Speaker 1: together the first year that we met that was about
Speaker 1: work correspondence. It didn't get picked up, okay, so the
Speaker 1: second year we definitely wanted to work together again. It
Speaker 1: was for those of you who you probably all know
Speaker 1: because you listen to this podcast, and I'm sure he
Speaker 1: talked about this a lot. But there's a pitching season
Speaker 1: and network in the old days, and it was summertime
Speaker 1: and you came up with your ideas and you'd pitch
Speaker 1: it and then you'd write the script and the fall,
Speaker 1: and then you get picked up around after the holidays,
Speaker 1: and then you'd film your pilot. So we heard that
Speaker 1: ABC was looking for a medical show, and she was like,
Speaker 1: I was going to go to medical school. And I said,
Speaker 1: I hate medical shows. I think they suck. I don't
Speaker 1: understand what's going on. They're screaming and yelling. They're scary.
Speaker 1: I don't get it. And she was like, it's so weird.
Speaker 1: I said, because you need a you know, she was.
Speaker 1: We basically talked about it. She was like, there are
Speaker 1: these things called interns, and I was like, those sound good.
Speaker 1: In turns sound good because they don't know what they're
Speaker 1: doing either. So we sat and we had a lot
Speaker 1: of conversations, which is what we've done in the other
Speaker 1: script developed, you know, talked, and then she went off
Speaker 1: and based on conversations around Big Brain, she did what
Speaker 1: I now call the percolating process, which is she takes
Speaker 1: all these things I'm making weird finger moves for people
Speaker 1: who don't know what I'm doing, weird finger moves, not
Speaker 1: those kind of weird finger moves stopping.
Speaker 3: I didn't say a word.
Speaker 1: I'm saying it. I'm saying it too some listener. But
Speaker 1: she she will go off and take things and do
Speaker 1: this incredible work where all of a sudden she came
Speaker 1: back and she handed me this piece of paper which
Speaker 1: was the pitch, and it was unbelievable and it was
Speaker 1: the first episode. Is pretty much the first episode. And
Speaker 1: so we got the pilot picked up for a script
Speaker 1: and then they couldn't decide if they wanted to pick
Speaker 1: it up to make a pilot. We were the last
Speaker 1: show to get picked up. We had to do all pitch. Yeah,
Speaker 1: nobody got it except the executives who were behind it
Speaker 1: were really pro it. But up top there was one
Speaker 1: woman named Susan Lyne who was a co president with
Speaker 1: Lloyd Bron at that time. I think at ABC I
Speaker 1: could be wrong, and Seanda I went in and basically
Speaker 1: made a plea and told her why we thought it
Speaker 1: was important. I made up a bunch of stuff. I
Speaker 1: have no idea what I was thinking. And God bless her,
Speaker 1: and God bless Lloyd Bron or whoever else who. By
Speaker 1: the way, there is a real Lloyd Braun for all
Speaker 1: of you who watch side Field. Anyway, they picked up
Speaker 1: the pilot and then we were the last show to
Speaker 1: get picked up for series and they put us on
Speaker 1: a mid season and that's when we started. So I
Speaker 1: went through the whole one hole pilot and then this
Speaker 1: whole journey, and then I went off to continue to
Speaker 1: work on the first season of Grey's Anatome while I
Speaker 1: still had my job at Mark Gordon Company, where I
Speaker 1: was producing a movie in Italy called Casanova, and I
Speaker 1: was commuting back and forth every couple of weeks to
Speaker 1: work on Grays and then go work on Casanova. And
Speaker 1: shortly after that I ended up quitting that job and
Speaker 1: going to work full time with Shonda on Grace.
Speaker 3: Wow, those early days.
Speaker 2: Now you're commuting back and forth from Italy, so you're
Speaker 2: not there every day. How much are you working on
Speaker 2: the day to day scripts? Production, reviewing cuts?
Speaker 1: It's a TV show, so initially when the scripts are
Speaker 1: being written, I would be giving notes on scripts. But
Speaker 1: there was a writer's room for the first time. Up
Speaker 1: until then, it had just been the two of us.
Speaker 1: And then obviously there was a writer's room. We had
Speaker 1: a great guy come in who you know, helped sort
Speaker 1: of organize stuff. So it's a hard question. To answer,
Speaker 1: because initially I was involved and aware of everything that
Speaker 1: was going on, but the writer's room was sacras anct,
Speaker 1: and they would write scripts. I would look at stuff,
Speaker 1: and then I was pretty much back and forth whenever
Speaker 1: it was necessary. And then when cut started to come in,
Speaker 1: definitively I was there. That started around the time that
Speaker 1: I was there more than I was in Italy. I
Speaker 1: went back and forth to Italy a few times. And
Speaker 1: true story, I was sitting on set after being on
Speaker 1: the pilot and sitting on set in La, and I
Speaker 1: was sitting in Piazza San Marco, and I was waiting
Speaker 1: for the sun to be perfect, because the DP needed
Speaker 1: a perfect son. And I didn't understand why it was
Speaker 1: taking so long at this point. I mean, I came
Speaker 1: from movies, Brian, this is so ridiculous. But I was
Speaker 1: sitting there. I'm by nature really impatient person, as you
Speaker 1: can tell, but I was like, what's taking so long?
Speaker 1: And I think, I said, you know what, if I've
Speaker 1: been back in La, we could have gotten ten setups
Speaker 1: in this amount of time. And Jeremy Irons comes over,
Speaker 1: who is in the movie, and he looks at me
Speaker 1: and he goes, you know, dear girl, you really should
Speaker 1: go back to Los Angeles because you're more I think
Speaker 1: you're more of a television person than you are a
Speaker 1: movie person. I was like, you're right. I think you're
Speaker 1: probably right. And you know, in the movie version, I
Speaker 1: would have packed everything up. But I went back and
Speaker 1: forth and it was wonderful during the movie. But that
Speaker 1: was the moment when a penny dropped and I was like,
Speaker 1: I love TV. People just keep working. Nobody stands around,
Speaker 1: you know, no one stands around.
Speaker 2: Nope, you just finished your twentieth year, became the longest
Speaker 2: running drama in ABC history. Do you ever give yourself
Speaker 2: a moment to go back and think of those early
Speaker 2: days and think, oh my gosh, we're still doing it
Speaker 2: twenty years later.
Speaker 3: And how does that? What does that mean to you?
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a stand it's astounding. Like I remember
Speaker 1: season one where we were just like throwing the kitchen
Speaker 1: sink because this is probably our last. And the great
Speaker 1: thing about Shanda, Shanda is fearless when it comes to storytelling, obviously,
Speaker 1: so it was just like, I just pull all the
Speaker 1: stops out and I don't know, it's such a testament
Speaker 1: to both our fans I mean have such incredible, crazy
Speaker 1: loyal fans, and something about the show keeps resonating. I
Speaker 1: mean it does for me. It's better for me because
Speaker 1: you know that would be embarrassing, but it didn't. And there's
Speaker 1: so many talented people involved, and I think it means
Speaker 1: so much to me that over the years, like now,
Speaker 1: we have Meg Morenis, who started with us in like
Speaker 1: season two as an assistant as a runner and who
Speaker 1: is now running the show. And I think there's something
Speaker 1: so wonderful and incredible about so many of our actors directing,
Speaker 1: and I it just it means a ton. It's it's
Speaker 1: mind boggling. I mean, if you had said to me,
Speaker 1: if you had said to the way younger less wrinkled
Speaker 1: me like years ago, that we would be going, I'd go,
Speaker 1: that's unbelievable. But yay, I mean it's it's definitely it's
Speaker 1: definitely crazy. But I'm very proud of you.
Speaker 2: In addition to Gray's Anatomy, served as producer on Private Practice,
Speaker 2: among others, The Catch Scandal for the People, How to
Speaker 2: Get Away With Murder Station nineteen, and now of course
Speaker 2: the smash Sensation, Bridgerton Inventing Anna and upcoming the Residents,
Speaker 2: who I just was able to talk to Susan collect you.
Speaker 1: Susan, right, yeah, how did you?
Speaker 2: How did you know that? Now now you don't research me.
Speaker 2: I talked to Susan. I talked to Susan, and she
Speaker 2: told us, by the way, everything that happens. So I
Speaker 2: don't even know if you need to run it. Do
Speaker 2: we have a release date on that yet?
Speaker 1: By the way, No, we don't, but I'm sure whatever
Speaker 1: release date it will be, it will be a terrific one.
Speaker 3: She's lying everyone.
Speaker 2: She knows exactly when she knows, she knows exactly when
Speaker 2: it's coming out.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I didn't I didn't do the math. I don't do
Speaker 2: numbers that well. This is like a combined nine hundred
Speaker 2: and seventy three years of television, it appears to me.
Speaker 2: So this I'm going to ask this question again in
Speaker 2: a in a slightly different way. I mean, at one
Speaker 2: point in time, you've got at least Gray's Anatomy, Private
Speaker 2: Practice and Scandal that's on the air. At the same
Speaker 2: time you now have other you know, Bridgerton, at the
Speaker 2: same time that Inventing Ana is happening, and now the Residents.
Speaker 2: So you have to be more macro now right, I mean,
Speaker 2: are you are you reviewing scripts for these shows?
Speaker 3: Still?
Speaker 1: It depends on the screen, It depends on the show.
Speaker 1: Is I think if I always say like shows are
Speaker 1: like kids, I have no children. So this is as
Speaker 1: close as I can get to the analogy in that
Speaker 1: the oldest show is like having a kid who's left
Speaker 1: the house and has gone to college or is So
Speaker 1: when there's an emergency, when there's a real issue, you
Speaker 1: check in, You celebrate birthdays, you know it's correct, You
Speaker 1: make yourself available for whatever's necessary. But honestly, you you
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time lauding them for their thriving survival.
Speaker 3: In my opinion.
Speaker 1: On the other spectrum, on the other end is when
Speaker 1: a new show is around, it's a baby and that
Speaker 1: needs a lot of Karen feeding. So when Bridgerton was
Speaker 1: starting out, I was involved in every aspect of Bridgerton.
Speaker 1: Now I'll be involved in different aspects of Bridgerton, but
Speaker 1: it's not the same. That's only been four seasons with
Speaker 1: eight episodes, as opposed to something like Gray Is Where
Speaker 1: And you remember this, Brian, like we made TV and
Speaker 1: it was twenty four episodes.
Speaker 3: You know, so we were doing thirty. By the way,
Speaker 3: you guys, thirty thirty right against you guys.
Speaker 1: That is rape and pillage thirty.
Speaker 3: I mean it's a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a lot. Like you so you had
Speaker 1: like a bathroom break and a trip to Disneyland, and
Speaker 1: then you came back and you started again. It's like there,
Speaker 1: that's no hiatus.
Speaker 3: No, no, thirty is a lot.
Speaker 1: Thirty, Yeah, I think. So bottom line is every it
Speaker 1: goes back to what I said about producing. I'm here
Speaker 1: for whatever is necessary for whatever is going on. And also,
Speaker 1: remember when we were doing it was like Gray's Private Scandal,
Speaker 1: how to get Away with Murder. We are also developing shows,
Speaker 1: so on top of it, I would be theoretically keeping
Speaker 1: an eye on a bunch of shows and then trying
Speaker 1: to get new shows on the art because why not,
Speaker 1: I mean, we have there's time for bathroom break.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, exactly.
Speaker 2: Well, Look, I was told I needed to ask you
Speaker 2: what's happening in Bridgerton third season?
Speaker 3: I mean I need all the answers.
Speaker 1: What's happening third season in Bridgerton? You can see it.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's on it's on the it's on the
Speaker 1: streaming device.
Speaker 3: It's all it's all, you're all done, it's all out.
Speaker 1: No, it's out. The second part is out in a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks. The first part is out.
Speaker 2: Yes, right, So what happens in the first part No,
Speaker 2: in the second part, Oh, I thought.
Speaker 1: You just want to know in general. Oh, in the
Speaker 1: second part, a lot of stuff happens.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh see, that's not that's not the kind of
Speaker 3: you know, breaking news we need.
Speaker 1: No, no, you're yeah, you won't get any breaking news
Speaker 1: for me. There will be wearing corsets. There will be
Speaker 1: some dancing, undoubtedly, there might be some romance.
Speaker 3: Romance or sex, you know.
Speaker 1: I think sometimes there's both.
Speaker 2: Okay, this show is I mean, this has taken over
Speaker 2: the zeitgeist here.
Speaker 3: This is like a cultural uh what do you call it? Phenomenon?
Speaker 3: Is that it.
Speaker 1: I it's a lot of people love, have a lot
Speaker 1: of love, which is really good because it's really bad
Speaker 1: when they don't. But no, it's it is. And I think, look,
Speaker 1: I feel incredibly lucky that when we first debuted this
Speaker 1: it was the middle of COVID. I had no idea
Speaker 1: because I don't I'm not a big social media person.
Speaker 1: Although everybody here keeps starting to change that and I'm like,
Speaker 1: you just don't want this. But I was like sequestered
Speaker 1: during the holiday, and I started getting phone calls to
Speaker 1: my friends in London and stuff, and it was like
Speaker 1: this amazing thing when everybody was all separate and we
Speaker 1: were all kind of everything was kind of grim that
Speaker 1: the timing I think worked incredibly well for us too,
Speaker 1: and it got It was a little beacon of you know,
Speaker 1: X case escapism and hope distraction, distraction, and I think
Speaker 1: everybody got. Really what I love about this show is
Speaker 1: you really engage in the whole family and the families,
Speaker 1: and so you have a kind of a fighting rooting
Speaker 1: side for every couple as they come up right. And
Speaker 1: the thing that has been hardest for people to understand
Speaker 1: is that we really do mean that happily ever after
Speaker 1: at the end of a season and then the next
Speaker 1: season starts, and after the first season, people I think
Speaker 1: used to seeing our serialized shows, We're like, but when's
Speaker 1: the duke going to come back and leave her and
Speaker 1: do something? Really, No, Jolia Quinn, It's these are nice stories.
Speaker 2: No, Well, you may not know social media, but you
Speaker 2: know other things. I don't know what that was a
Speaker 2: terrible transition. But you didn't.
Speaker 3: You didn't. You didn't take my bait.
Speaker 2: So anyway, it has become such a cultural phenomenon. You
Speaker 2: are the host of a companion podcast A side the
Speaker 2: ton Get it, Bridgerton.
Speaker 3: Are you having fun doing that?
Speaker 1: I love doing it? But also, Brian, I used to
Speaker 1: do Most people don't know this, but back in the
Speaker 1: old old days, Shonda and I did a podcast which
Speaker 1: was called we just called it Gray's Anatomy, and we
Speaker 1: would do that. In the beginning, we'd be like, I'm bad,
Speaker 1: super like Gray's Anatomy, and we would just talk. I
Speaker 1: don't even think we had guests. I think we just talked.
Speaker 1: So we started with that and I ended up sort
Speaker 1: of asking a lot of questions. And then after that
Speaker 1: I did a Scandal podcast, and then I did I
Speaker 1: did a Gras Anatomy podcast, I think, and then I
Speaker 1: did an Inside Shondaland podcast, And so now I'm doing
Speaker 1: this and it's I really I love I love the medium,
Speaker 1: and yours are delightful, like you are, like, you're really
Speaker 1: really good at this, and I think, oh me, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I think you're really really good at it, and you're
Speaker 1: you just get people to tell great stories and and
Speaker 1: everyone just always it always sounds like everyone's having a
Speaker 1: really good time, which they are because I'm actually genuinely
Speaker 1: having a good time, which well, thanks deep until now
Speaker 1: today was not as sunny. But I'm I'm not going
Speaker 1: to go punch someone in the face now because you've
Speaker 1: been so lovely. That's good. But no, I just think
Speaker 1: they're great. I think it's yeah, I think I think
Speaker 1: you're really good at it.
Speaker 2: Well that's very nice. I will tell you this, and
Speaker 2: this is not a joke. It's my favorite thing that
Speaker 2: I do. I love having these conversations with people like
Speaker 2: you and others. And again, I mean, it goes back,
Speaker 2: you know, a good a good storyteller always goes back
Speaker 2: to the beginning. But it is what you talked about,
Speaker 2: the grip telling you like, don't act like you know everything,
Speaker 2: and if you can learn something from somebody over the
Speaker 2: course of a conversation, well my day feels better.
Speaker 3: So I truly do love doing it.
Speaker 1: You can tell you.
Speaker 3: Can tell thank you for saying it well.
Speaker 1: Because you genuinely ask questions and that come from other questions.
Speaker 3: Like you your I'm listening.
Speaker 1: It's but that's the thing That's where we go back to.
Speaker 1: If there's one thing I could say about everything in
Speaker 1: the world right now is if everybody, if everybody listened better,
Speaker 1: if we all listened, there might be I don't know
Speaker 1: if there'd be solutions to problems, but at least there
Speaker 1: wouldn't be so much intense and hideous frustration. Maybe, I
Speaker 1: don't know.
Speaker 3: I find that divisiveness, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Divisiveness, but hey, I'm an idealist, yes, which is.
Speaker 2: Well, I know me too, But it does feel in
Speaker 2: some ways that that would make things a hell of
Speaker 2: a lot better, for sure. I I gotta let you go,
Speaker 2: But I do have to mention again after my conversation
Speaker 2: with Susie who, Susan who? By the way, By the way,
Speaker 2: I just made Susan Colecchi Susie. So I don't know
Speaker 2: if she would appreciate that or not, but I did it.
Speaker 2: The rest it's coming out. She would give me no information.
Speaker 2: You want to tell me any more about that. You
Speaker 2: want to tell me what happens.
Speaker 1: What I can tell you probably exactly what she told you,
Speaker 1: which is a it's a very funny murder mystery set
Speaker 1: in the White House. And I'm going to.
Speaker 3: Say upstairs, downstairs, Susie yep.
Speaker 1: And Susie aka Susan Glad Susie formally known as Susan
Speaker 1: Desperately Seeking Susie. She's so good, I mean, she's she's
Speaker 1: so good, she's and she's such a delightful human like yes,
Speaker 1: she's just genuinely couldn't be lovelier, but she's everybody in
Speaker 1: it's wonderful. Uzzo dubo, like the whole. But it's one
Speaker 1: of the most incredibly delightful, talented, joyful casts I've ever encountered.
Speaker 2: The cast, the cast is incredible. I remember mentioning it
Speaker 2: with her. I don't have it in front of me,
Speaker 2: but you know, it feels like it's lacking. It's lacking
Speaker 2: me for sure, So let's just get out of the way.
Speaker 1: I think that's about.
Speaker 2: Other than that, it sounds like it's spectacular, a spectacular
Speaker 2: cast that I know will be yet another massive hit
Speaker 2: for Shondaland last question, what makes your partnership with her
Speaker 2: work so well?
Speaker 1: You know, I think from my point of view, when
Speaker 1: I work with her and when I work on things
Speaker 1: with her, I do my best work. I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm challenged to do my best work. I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm engaged to do my best work, and I genuinely,
Speaker 1: I genuinely respect what she does. And two she is
Speaker 1: and and I don't. I don't know, you know, it's
Speaker 1: sort of like what makes it work so well? I
Speaker 1: think we both listen and we both have my guesses.
Speaker 1: You could ask her me if she'll say no, but
Speaker 1: I think we both have a genuine that would be
Speaker 1: really embarrassing when like I don't respect her what I
Speaker 1: think we have. I just she won't leave the office.
Speaker 1: It's so it's so incredibly uncomfortable. That's not true, you guys.
Speaker 1: I do feel like I feel like, you know's there's
Speaker 1: that old improv thing which is yes, and it's yes,
Speaker 1: And I always feel with her. I can, you know,
Speaker 1: say I don't like this or blah blah blah, but
Speaker 1: there's always a yes, and there's always a yeah. But
Speaker 1: what if we did this? Yeah? But what? And I
Speaker 1: know if I'm genuinely excited or interested about something, the
Speaker 1: likelihood is there'll be a real conversation that we're having
Speaker 1: and vice versa. That there's always something at the core
Speaker 1: of it where there's something really meaningful to discuss. And
Speaker 1: I think That's an incredible privilege in a world where
Speaker 1: you get to work with somebody Because people are like, wow,
Speaker 1: you worked together for so many years. I'm like, why
Speaker 1: wouldn't we Like, why wouldn't I right, it seems to
Speaker 1: be doing okay, and I still I think she's one
Speaker 1: of the most delightful people on earth.
Speaker 2: So well, after this many years, that is an amazing
Speaker 2: thing to hear. You know, I've never done this before,
Speaker 2: I've never said this before. I've never used these words
Speaker 2: here before. But there's to steal from a good buddy
Speaker 2: of mine, Dan Patrick, who talks mostly about sports and
Speaker 2: some entertainment. At the end of every show, they go
Speaker 2: around the room and say, what did you learn today?
Speaker 2: And let me just say, the combination of what you
Speaker 2: just said combined with something that I've never really occurred
Speaker 2: to me before, which is really stupid on my part.
Speaker 2: But the fact that you all have or that you
Speaker 2: have made a decision that you don't want to do
Speaker 2: the same thing over and over, and the diversity of
Speaker 2: style within the work that you guys have been creating
Speaker 2: now for twenty years is astounding. And the fact that
Speaker 2: you all are able to listen to each other and
Speaker 2: that you work well together, you must despite her wanting
Speaker 2: you to leave the office sometimes like each other, and
Speaker 2: that you're creating work that is different. I mean, you
Speaker 2: look at because I have a list here, because you know,
Speaker 2: I'm very prepared, but you look at like Bridgerton and
Speaker 2: Scandal and Grays and even Private Practice how to get
Speaker 2: away with murder inventing on it. I mean you, the
Speaker 2: diversity with which you continue to explore within the medium
Speaker 2: of television is great. I'm sure the residence is going
Speaker 2: to be incredible, And I just want to thank you
Speaker 2: so much for taking the time out of your very
Speaker 2: very busy schedule to have a conversation with me today.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: I know, I really appreciate you asking. And look, I
Speaker 1: also want to give a shout out to all the
Speaker 1: writers and creators that we work with, because Shanda creates
Speaker 1: some of the shows, but you know, Paul Davies and
Speaker 1: Pete Nook and Alan High, like, there's a bevy of
Speaker 1: folks that I feel like we're also incredible, incredibly fortunate
Speaker 1: to be trusted with their vision. And I appreciate your
Speaker 1: kind words, and uh, this has been really really fun.
Speaker 1: I anytime you're just sitting around doing a podcast and
Speaker 1: if you want someone to pop on, just.
Speaker 3: Give me a I got you anytime.
Speaker 1: I'm always sitting here pretty much pretty much here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so easy to find. It's easy to find desperate to talk.
Speaker 2: Oh, I know that that's not true, but thank you
Speaker 2: so much.
Speaker 3: And listen.
Speaker 2: After the Residence here wins an Emmy or two, and
Speaker 2: that becomes that becomes more of a grown up than
Speaker 2: at the very least, when you've got something else, your
Speaker 2: next major hit that is about to launch, that you
Speaker 2: won't give me any freak information about. Yeah, then the end,
Speaker 2: we'll talk then for sure.
Speaker 1: Awesome.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Betsy, Thanks so much.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Brian, Betsy, thank you so much for being on.
Speaker 2: I appreciate your time so much. I know how busy
Speaker 2: you are. Thank you for your openness, for your insight
Speaker 2: to a part of the process a lot.
Speaker 3: Of us don't always see. So thank you. I enjoyed
Speaker 3: this conversation.
Speaker 2: Everybody, go watch the new season of Bridgerton out on Netflix.
Speaker 2: Part two coming very very soon, although Betsy wouldn't tell
Speaker 2: me about it, And listen to Betsy's podcast Inside the Ton,
Speaker 2: And of course we're all going to be waiting for
Speaker 2: the residents. I'm going to see you here next week.
Speaker 2: Until then, everybody, you guys have a great week. Of
Speaker 2: A Beat is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner,
Speaker 2: alongside our executive producer Lang Lee. Our senior producer is
Speaker 2: Diego Tapia. Our producers are Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris, and
Speaker 2: Emily Carr. Our talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and
Speaker 2: our intern is Ali Amir Saheed. Our theme song Bubble
Speaker 2: and Squeak, performed by the one and only Creed Bratton.