WEBVTT - CLASSIC: What is the Golden Dawn? 0:00:00.000 --> 0:00:04.519 I'm a conspiracy realist. Tonight's classic episode comes from twoenty 0:00:04.840 --> 0:00:05.600 twenty one. 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:07.120 How long ago was that? 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:08.360 Several years? 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:08.920 We counted. 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:14.760 Uh, this is something Matt that you and I, Noel 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:18.960 and Tennessee and Mission Control had always been pretty fascinated with. 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:20.119 But you and. 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:25.000 I would talk about this way back when we first met. 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:29.159 Because it's just so strange and esoteric. I'm building it 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:32.120 up too much. What's this classic episode about? 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:35.519 Well, you're just making me think about Albert Pike's super 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:38.879 secret magic necklace thing that we talked about for a 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:43.000 while there, thinking about freemasonry and secret societies, and then 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:46.600 a little group of folks that got together and said, guys, 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:50.120 what if we made an even secret or society and 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:52.720 we'll call it something really epic. 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:56.160 Yeah, And so they got together and what they came 0:00:56.240 --> 0:01:01.080 up with was a I love the phrase, a secret society. 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:06.560 The secret society is called the Hermetic Order of the 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:11.039 Golden Dot. It might sound obscure and bizarre today, and 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:14.480 it is bizarre. But what you're going to be surprised 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:16.560 to find here, folks, if this is the first time 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:18.920 hearing about the Golden Dawn, is that I had a 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:24.320 huge impact on later groups and later systems, and Matt 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:29.760 for me in this exploration, the biggest question is did 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:32.080 any of this magic work? 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:32.840 Well? 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:35.280 I bet we get to the bottom of it in 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:37.440 the following episode, do we? 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:41.000 Yeah? Sure we all. 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:42.640 We'll at least talk about it every while. 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:48.440 From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:52.880 riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:55.920 learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:57.680 production of iHeart Radio. 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:10.959 Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:12.200 my name is Noel. 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:14.799 They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:19.399 super producer Paul. Mission control decands. Most importantly, you are you. 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:22.680 You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:26.440 want you to know. And I was thinking over the 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:30.000 past few days that everybody we meet, to one degree 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:33.480 or another, participates in something that could be called a 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:37.840 secret or occulted organization. It may be some like group 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:41.040 you're a member of during your schooling days. It might 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:44.720 be some weird, you know, class organization like the various 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:49.080 orders that aristocrats have. It might just be fandom for 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:52.960 a particular artist right or something you're interested in. Or 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:56.919 it might be a bond built upon surviving a particular 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:01.440 type of trauma. Right, it might be something entirely extracurricular, 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:04.720 but we're all members of all these various different things, 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:08.440 and that's that's not necessarily a bad thing. Right. Just 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:11.200 because a bunch of people are into some like weird 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:16.240 Cadillac forum on the Internet, doesn't mean they're automatically the Illuminati, right, Like, 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:18.480 are we all kind of into weird stuff? 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:22.399 Yeah? I mean, you know, just by virtue of being podcasters, 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:26.440 we're sort of softly initiated into a weird kind of 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:28.880 cabal of sorts. 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:31.400 Right, that's a good point. I hadn't thought of that, 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:35.680 but that's a good point. Sorry, Sorry who God Anyway, 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:39.880 today's this will make sense later or not. Today's episode 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:44.480 focuses on a particular school of thought. It's an organization 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:49.720 that prizes itself on exclusivity, on the idea of initiation, 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:56.200 accreating knowledge incrementally, and yes, a form of magic. So 0:03:56.360 --> 0:04:01.600 today's question, what is the Golden on Here are the 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:04.400 facts full name of it, the Hermetic Order of the 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:09.320 Golden Dawn. Today we see it as an odd, an 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:13.080 odd group, somewhat forgotten by the mainstream, but it played 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:18.200 a fundamental role in today's magical organizations. The weirdest thing 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:20.640 about it was at the time, in the eighteen nineties, 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:24.919 eighteen eighties or so, it was well, I think it 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:27.359 kind of functioned like a social network. I don't know 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:30.600 what you guys think as you dive in, but you know, 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:35.040 with magic, right, it's kind of an augmented reality the 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:37.839 more we think about it. Similar to the Latitude Society, 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:42.480 they took ideas that were a unique combination of ancient, 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:46.080 pre existing spiritual traditions and then other stuff that was 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.320 happening right before it in the realm of science and spiritualism. 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:55.200 So like the Kabbala, Egyptian, Greek mysteries, several strands of 0:04:55.200 --> 0:05:00.479 early Christian thought, all these esoteric traditions combined in the 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:05.480 late eighteen eighties. And the story of the Origin, I'll 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:07.640 let you be the judge. The story of the Origin 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:08.920 feels a little sketchy. 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:14.240 Yeah, indeed, the hoot God, okay, right? Who God? Sorry, Ben, 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:15.920 you gotta help us out here. What is this acronym? 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:17.320 I love the way this is. 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:20.960 That's me be lazy in the notes. It's just shorthand 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:23.159 for the hermetic order of the Golden Dolls. 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:23.880 That's the one. 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:26.440 They didn't call themselves whot God. 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:29.839 Well, we talked off Mike, how that would be a 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:34.039 fantastic name for likely a Florida rapper. Perhaps Golf Coast, 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:35.160 I believe is what you said. 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:38.760 Ben, Yeah, I think so, Golf Coast, Golf Coast out there. 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:39.520 It's a great idea. 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:43.440 Okay. So the who Got Hermetic Order of the Golden 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:46.760 Dawn was founded in eighteen eighty seven by a Freemason 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:50.599 by the name of William Wynn Westcott. Www, that's a 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:53.800 fun alliteration there. Also in this group of founders was 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:59.000 Samuel Liddell McGregor Matthews and William Robert Woodman, the least 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:00.159 impressive of those three. 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:01.919 And all of them were Masons. 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:07.120 Yes, indeed correct, a group of Masons, and allegedly they 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:11.000 based their founding of this group on a series of 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:15.039 writings that were collectively known as the Cipher Manuscripts, which 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:18.080 is definitely the name of the first album from Whot God, 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:21.960 no question about that. So these Cipher Manuscripts are a 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:26.000 group of sixty different folios. I guess you could call 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:32.360 them outlining a series of magical intention rights or rituals right. 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:35.280 A ritual is something that is intended to produce a 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:41.080 result through synchronized incantations or something or movement. Various things 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:44.000 can go into a ritual. This podcast contains quite a 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:46.640 few rituals. In fact, you might not even realize it, 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:53.640 but these things were corresponding to the spiritual elements of air, earth, water, 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:58.039 and fire. Yeah. No, it was I ought to say 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:00.919 their powers combined. They are in fact captain planet. 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:04.200 Yeah. And you can think about these rituals and rights, 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:07.360 the things that were contained in these manuscripts somewhat somewhat 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:12.000 like a mixtape. Really, it's it's it's an anthology. We 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:15.640 already mentioned it above, all these varying thoughts and schools 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:18.960 of thought kind of going together into one thing, all 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:22.440 types of different what you would call magical theory, either 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:24.840 with a C or a K, mostly with a K, 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:29.440 and a lot of it is just steeped in symbolism. 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:31.600 So when you when you're looking at these things. The 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:34.120 reason why hoot God is so interesting and funny to me, 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:37.880 it reminds me of Minerva and representations of the owl. 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:40.240 And we were just speaking about this on a listener 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:45.640 mail episode Esoteric Wisdom, Right, Yeah, and and really this this, 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:48.040 this manuscript, the cipher manuscript, is kind of like a 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:52.400 beginner's manual, but it's also the advanced stuff kind of 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:55.120 all together in one. It's just everything you need to 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:59.400 operate as a member of the Hermitic Order of Golden Dawn. Yeah. 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:04.000 So if you look at the watermarks on these folios, 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:06.920 on the actual text themselves, it looks like they were 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:12.040 created back in eighteen oh nine, So that's one theory. 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:15.440 They are written in code, and like you said, Matt, 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:19.600 they contain diagrams, symbols, but they also contain this written text. 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:24.080 It's not a particularly difficult code to crack. Numbers are 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:29.200 substituted by Hebrew letters, so for example, a left equals one. 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:36.079 According to the order's own records, Westcott himself discovered slash 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:39.960 decoded the text in or around eighteen eighty seven. Like 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:42.600 we said, when the Order was founded. It's important to 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:45.280 note that these founding members, they all had day jobs. 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:48.640 That's going to be a complicating factor. In just a bit. 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:54.959 Westcott claimed that he had just found these been given them. 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:57.679 He did not say that he had written them, though 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:01.480 later historians would suspect indeed some of his colleagues would 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:06.280 accuse him of just writing them himself and then claiming 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:10.040 some more prestigious authorship. It could have also possibly been 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:11.880 written by Edward. 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:14.559 Litton, who was. 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:17.240 A popular author at the time associated with some of 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:20.240 these occult beliefs, or a lot of fans of his 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:24.800 work were also fans of these sorts of magical practices. Today, 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:30.200 you'll recognize Bulwer Lytton most easily as the inspiration of 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:33.400 one of my favorite contests, the Bulwer Litton Fiction Contests. 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:34.360 Have you guys heard about this? 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:37.200 No Never another great name, though. 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:41.880 I suggest we all consider entering the contest just if 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:45.559 you're bored of an afternoon one day. It's an official 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:52.199 annual contest to write the worst opening sentence of any 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:57.160 possible novel. And I haven't won yet. Like you try 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.040 to imagine what the worst novel ever would be, and 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:01.800 then you write the first sentence. 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:02.040 For that novel. 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:04.840 That should give you a sense of the kind of 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:07.040 writing bull wherre Lytton did when he was alive. 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:12.240 Wow. Do grammatical errors count toward the badness of it? 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:14.320 Or does it? Do you just have to get that 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:17.880 stuff right it's just the arrangement or no I guess 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:21.800 the the words that you put in there grammatically correct 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:23.040 just need to be terrible. 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:29.319 You know, sky's the limit. I say, get creative with it. This. 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:33.000 The winner of twenty twenties contest was Lisa Klueber of 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:38.040 San Francisco. This is the winning sentence, her dear John 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:41.840 missive Flapp, done ambiguously in the windy breeze, hanging like 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:45.560 a pizza menu on the doorknob of my mind, I 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:48.760 thought that was all right. It wasn't anyway, that feels. 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:49.520 More exciting than it should. 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.320 I disagree with like the one of the things with 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:55.520 the little doorknob holes in it, right, okay? Got it? 0:10:56.120 --> 0:11:00.320 Also completely unrelated. We were talking about proprietary eponyms. Learned 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:03.480 that doorknob is one, dornob is like a brand name. 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:04.000 Anyway. 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:09.400 So back to these texts. We don't know who really 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:13.120 wrote them, but there are some guesses. We're going to 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:16.320 give you the version of the order itself, and then 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:21.200 we'll give you some of the critics ideas. So Wescott 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:25.600 told his compatriots that not only had he decoded these texts, 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:32.600 which illuminated various mysteries, but in the process of deciphering 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:36.360 this stuff, he found the address of a German aristocrat 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:42.520 and Rosicrucian named Anna Sprangle. Anna Sprangel was not your 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:47.440 average aristocrat. Wescott believed that she had the ability to 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:51.720 contact some sort of supernatural and or extra dimensional entity, 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:56.760 which they were collectively referred to as the Secret Chiefs, 0:11:57.080 --> 0:11:59.000 which is a term I had never heard before. Like 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:00.559 we've heard Machinel, Right. 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:03.440 There's a band called the Secret Chiefs, like kind of 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:07.200 a weird almost like mister that was actually related to 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:09.400 mister Bungle, but kind of like almost like a metal 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:11.920 jazz band called the Secret Chiefs. I never knew where 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:13.160 that term came from. I always thought it was the 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:14.520 oddest name. Yeah. 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:19.880 So the Hidden Kings, this is very interesting. Hmm all right, 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:23.600 So allegedly the Hidden Kings are the ones who wrote 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:24.199 this thing. 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:28.720 Or inspired the guided the hand of the person who 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:29.440 did write them. 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:30.240 Right. 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:35.240 And this isn't necessarily a new idea, the idea of 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:40.120 divinely inspired written texts, right, This is this is something 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:43.600 that dates back to religions of old. It continues today 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:49.040 with various organizations. The Secret Chiefs themselves are specifically mentioned 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:53.120 in earlier works, like one called The Cloud upon the 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:58.160 Sanctuary back in seventeen ninety five by a name that Noel. 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:01.480 I will defer to your German in pronouncing. 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:04.760 Okay, I'm gonna give this my young gem and boy. 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:06.080 All let's see. 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:12.360 This would be Ka von ekott Schausen, Kaul von Ekottshausen. 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:15.839 Maybe it's more of an Ekotzhausen. Maybe I may be 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:18.320 doing too hard of an sh but I've given it Mile. 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:19.360 That's is the best I can do. 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:23.040 I like both of them, sex man, so I love it. 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:26.600 So this gentleman allegedly wrote this thing way way before, 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:30.439 well not that far before, if it was, in fact, 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:32.840 you know, written in eighteen oh nine, but it was, 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:35.360 as we said, discovered in eighteen eighty seven. So he 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:39.720 wrote this work The Cloud upon the Sanctuary in seventeen nineties, 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:42.960 seventeen ninety five, something like that, exactly. 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:46.720 So we see a rough timeline that we can trace 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:51.880 through the use of these particular phrases. Right this Secret Chiefs, 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:55.880 Hidden Kings, stuff like that. The Golden Dawn did differ 0:13:56.040 --> 0:14:00.000 from some earlier, arguably similar groups, and even differed from 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.480 some groups that would exist around the same time period 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:06.840 because it did not restrict membership along the lines of gender. 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:11.600 Unlike Freemasonry, women were treated as equals and allowed into 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:15.800 this order. It's progressive for its time. So things started 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:21.040 going wrong pretty quickly. Spoiler Westcott had to leave leadership 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:24.880 of the Order when he literally lost some papers in 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:28.400 a cab. He just forgot to take them. You know, 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:30.520 it's like leaving your phone in an uber, but you 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:34.160 have the necronomicon with you on your phone or something. 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:37.360 Or your phone. Your phone is the necronomic. 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:42.560 On your phone is the is the necronomicon. So the 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:46.760 Secret Chiefs did not appear to help him out as 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:48.920 far as his day job goes. Because word got to 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:52.360 his employers. They discovered his connection to this group that 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:55.280 at the time would seem pretty odd, and they gave 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:59.080 him a choice. They said, look, you can keep working 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:04.400 here and stop around with Magic WW, or you can 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.960 leave because you will be fired. So Westcott thought about it. 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:10.760 We don't know too many of the specifics. Ultimately he said, 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:12.760 you know, I'm going to stick with my career as 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:17.280 a coroner, and i am going to still be associated, 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:19.320 you know, low key with this group, but I'm not 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:22.360 going to be an active, prominent member because I got 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:23.040 bills to pay. 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:26.040 He was a corner and he was dabbling in magic. 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:29.840 Does that mean he was was he stealing organs and 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:34.200 other gutty parts from black magic c k rituals? 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:36.800 I mean, if you wanted to be a necromancer, that's 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:38.200 a pretty good place to start. 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:41.000 Yeah, no, one's going to miss an errant spleen here 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:41.360 and there. 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:45.880 That's true. You know, I thought the same thing too. 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:49.360 I couldn't find and tell us if you have an 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:52.040 inside scoop, folks, but I couldn't find any reports to that. 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:54.920 Of course, we're joshing a bit. We don't want to 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:57.600 just accuse somebody of necromancy. 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:02.080 Oh yeah, no, I know. No, I'm just look just 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:05.840 stating the fact that if there are corpses near your 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:08.880 person as part of your day job, that it would 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:12.720 be helpful if one were interested in some of those 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:14.200 dark arts. That's all. 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:16.480 Yes, well said, and it's a very good point. 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:17.120 Also. 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:19.800 I just love that, in the context of this episode, 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:23.320 it sounds like we have in the past ruined someone's 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:27.440 lives by accusing them of being a necromancer, and now 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:30.600 we're taking pains to make sure that's not the case. 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:34.280 But you're right, You're right, circumstantial if nothing else, it's 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:39.360 definitely the pieces are there, right, We just don't know 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:41.920 what sort of picture the puzzle makes. 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:44.480 Last thing, it would just it would be a headline 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:48.920 in like the Mirror or something. A local area person 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:54.960 accused of necromancy loses job over kerfuffle and no one 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:56.120 would ever think about it again. 0:16:56.640 --> 0:17:01.960 Just say yeah, yeah, first paragraph, it's like local corridor 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:08.840 was discovered after leaving magical documents and grimoirese in Uber. 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:14.520 So yeah, you know what, maybe we should write for 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:18.240 the Mirror. But look, this is a true story. And 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:20.320 the rest of it, the rest of the story of 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:24.119 the group's origin and its evolution, quickly descends into a 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:30.879 story of obscure conspiracies, wheels within wheels, competing motivations, competing 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:36.600 magical philosophies, secret societies forming like within secret societies, and 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:40.480 then a study of just good old fashioned backstabbing. But 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:47.359 what actually happened to the Golden Dawn, and perhaps most importantly, 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:52.040 did any of the magic work? We'll dive into this 0:17:52.400 --> 0:18:02.640 after a word from our sponsors. Here's where it gets crazy. 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:07.480 Let's tackle those two questions separately, Right, what actually happened 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:11.160 to the organization and you know, how did the organization work? 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:15.080 And then we'll get to we'll get to the magic. 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:16.760 We have to get to the magic at some point. 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:20.600 So yeah, let's talk about how popular the Old Golden 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:24.480 Dawn was in its heyday, if you will. It was 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:28.159 a big part of Victorian society. Strangely enough, you wouldn't 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:34.160 imagine that magic was running wild in regular society. Well, yes, 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:38.560 somewhat not fully, but somewhat right. There are all kinds 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:41.879 of notable members from the top of society all the 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:44.720 way down to the bottom. There was one member named 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:50.280 Annie Hornieman. This person actually built Ireland's Abbey Theater. Have 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:53.040 you ever heard of that? That's a famous theater that exists. 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:55.679 This person built that. She was also a member of 0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:58.520 the Golden Dawn. Pretty cool, huh. 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:02.600 And then there were poets and authors involved, like William Butler. 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:06.040 Yeats is probably one of the most famous members of 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:08.639 the Golden Down, or one of the most well remembered 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:11.800 in the modern day. And he is on record saying 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:15.000 that other than writing poetry, which he's kind of known for, 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:19.320 the other most important pursuit of his life was his 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:22.160 membership in the Golden Down, which is a big thing 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:27.520 to say. Other authors like Algernon Blackwood were also members, 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:32.080 and then well to do people scientists, folks who were 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:35.639 practicing forms of meditation, things like that, Folks who are 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:39.000 just interested in hanging out and talking about this stuff. 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:41.240 Well, really quickly, I just wanted to mention, I believe, 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:44.520 correct me if I'm wrong, guys, that Alex, our buddy 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:48.959 Alex Williams podcast Ephemeral did like a special Halloween episode 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:52.399 where they did a reading of an Algernon Blackwood story. 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:55.400 Yeah, and we were literally talking about that a few 0:19:55.440 --> 0:20:02.080 hours ago, about how influential Algernon was and is still 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:02.760 on like. 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:06.679 Horror writing essentially, right, m hmm, yeah, Yeah, a tremendously 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:10.199 influential horror writer. So it makes sense that in his 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:14.720 non authorial time he would be interested in these sorts 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:20.040 of spiritual philosophical explorations. But of course, there is one 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:25.320 other person associated with the Order of the Golden Dawn 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:29.959 in a controversial way. This is a guy who you 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:33.840 are doubtlessly familiar with if you've listened to our show before. 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:37.399 He's occasionally referred to as the Great Beast. 0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:42.240 That's right, Alistair Crowley. I'm saying Crowley on purpose. You 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:44.600 could call him Crowley if you want, but after the 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:49.640 comments on YouTube, we I will forever see his name 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:54.000 be traumatized and then say Crawley. It's Crawley. But you're 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:55.919 aware of that name, and you're likely aware of the 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:59.639 Golden Dawn because of him, at least I certainly was. 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:03.560 And we'll dive into his association, which I think gets 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:08.000 a little bit exaggerated sometimes given the rest of his 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:12.479 other work post Golden down But the downfall of this 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:17.040 organization or the troubles it would have in its evolution, 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:21.360 these were all present in the early days, in its formation. 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:23.840 For the first few years, it was just that it 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:28.960 was a single group of people studying the Cipher manuscripts together, right, 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:31.080 and they were reading this stuff saying, hey, what do 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:34.040 you think about this philosophy of air? 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:34.840 You know what I mean? 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:39.920 Or this passage about fire. This group, this initial group, 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:44.280 would later be called the Outer Order or the First Order. 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:47.280 And all you did in the First Order was get 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:51.880 graded by fellow members and superiors in terms of your 0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:57.720 understanding of the arts and philosophies explored in those initial 0:21:57.880 --> 0:21:59.520 texts we mentioned Earth. 0:21:59.240 --> 0:22:00.359 Air Fire Order. 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:04.520 You began as a neophyte, you eventually progressed through several 0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:08.680 ranks to become a kind of intermediate. Why is there 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:12.520 an intermediate thing if the outer order is like complete, Well, 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:16.760 it's because in eighteen ninety two a secret society kind 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:20.280 of begins. In this secret society, it calls itself the 0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:24.240 Inner Order or the second Order, the cool part of 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:28.200 the cool kids club. And this second order is entirely 0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:33.399 composed of people who have who have literally passed a 0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:37.560 written examination about the stuff from the first order, and 0:22:37.720 --> 0:22:40.359 you can you can join up with the first order, 0:22:40.359 --> 0:22:44.800 but getting into the second order requires social approval. The 0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:47.040 other people that are already in the order have to 0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:49.200 dig you. They have to think you're on the same page, 0:22:49.800 --> 0:22:53.719 and that's where you start learning what we as outsiders 0:22:53.720 --> 0:22:59.439 would probably call practical or applied magic and ritual. But 0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:04.000 it doesn't end there. They have three ranks Adeptist, Minor, Major, 0:23:04.040 --> 0:23:08.840 and at the top Exemptist. There is a third order. However, 0:23:09.720 --> 0:23:13.320 this is really where it gets really weird. If if 0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:17.440 the third Order is real, then Matt I was thinking 0:23:17.440 --> 0:23:21.399 of our conversations about that excellent video game control that 0:23:21.400 --> 0:23:24.120 you would recommend it a while back. If the third 0:23:24.240 --> 0:23:26.960 Order is real. It's composed of things that are like 0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:30.440 those extra dimensional monsters in control totally. 0:23:30.480 --> 0:23:33.160 It's it's what do we call the secret chiefs, right 0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:37.760 like they they exist in another realm, in another place, 0:23:38.160 --> 0:23:41.280 but that they are the power structure that is above 0:23:42.040 --> 0:23:44.280 even the adept in the EXEMPTUS. 0:23:44.640 --> 0:23:47.840 Yeah, and if you are exemptists, or if you are 0:23:47.920 --> 0:23:50.840 high enough in your understanding and your membership in the 0:23:50.880 --> 0:23:54.960 second order, then you can function as an intermediate for 0:23:55.160 --> 0:24:01.320 these otherwise unobservable entities. And this horse wrinkles some feathers, 0:24:01.840 --> 0:24:05.040 especially when Mather, the guy we mentioned earlier, when he 0:24:05.160 --> 0:24:09.080 starts being a very strict leader, and he's like the 0:24:10.920 --> 0:24:13.480 he's like the voice of these entities and no one 0:24:13.480 --> 0:24:16.600 else can communicate with them except for him. He brings 0:24:16.640 --> 0:24:17.600