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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M Hello,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt Nola

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Speaker 1: is not here today, but we'll be returning soon. They

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Speaker 1: call me Ben. We are joined with our super producer

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Speaker 1: Paul Mission controlled Decond, uh you know, maybe for this

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Speaker 1: episode he is our elder evangelist, Deck Decond. But most importantly,

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Speaker 1: friends and neighbors, conspiracy realists and skeptics alike. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the show. You are you, and you are here, and

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Speaker 1: that makes this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 1: That's right. And today we're going to delve into another cult.

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Speaker 1: We've discussed them on this show before, how to start them,

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Speaker 1: how to identify them, how to deprogram yourself from them.

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Speaker 1: Cults are, you know, a troubling but fascinating thing to discuss,

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Speaker 1: and much more common, especially here in the States, than

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Speaker 1: the average person might guess. There's there's something very American

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Speaker 1: about cults in the global idea or concept. You know,

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Speaker 1: when you if you ask somebody in the United Kingdom

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Speaker 1: about a cult, they might tell you something about Charles

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Speaker 1: Manson or Jim Jones. You know, Yeah, there's something very

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Speaker 1: American about the need or the want to be an

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Speaker 1: independent or breakaway group from a major thing. Oh good,

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Speaker 1: call man, I didn't think about that yet. That's that's interesting. Now. This,

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Speaker 1: this group we're discussing today, goes by many names, and

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Speaker 1: we started thinking about this off air when we ran

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Speaker 1: into some some strange stories on the edge of the

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Speaker 1: news for the most part, So here's the skinny. We've

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Speaker 1: all heard of dumpster divers or survivalists, other people living

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Speaker 1: off the grid for one reason or another. Often people

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Speaker 1: are driven to this lifestyle through some sort of necessity,

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Speaker 1: maybe poverty, homelessness. Escaping law enforcement also happens way more

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Speaker 1: often than you would think. Or they may be pursuing

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Speaker 1: a philosophical position. It may just be a temporary situation,

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Speaker 1: a form of vacation. In some cases, however, people are

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Speaker 1: driven by something deeper. Yeah, that the spiritual movement of calling,

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Speaker 1: and they'll just latch onto a set of beliefs or

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Speaker 1: find a set of beliefs to be latched onto that

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Speaker 1: compels them to leave just the everyday mundane, all the stress,

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Speaker 1: the studies, the career, the family, the expenses, everything, Just

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Speaker 1: leave it behind. Just hit the road, right, hit the

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Speaker 1: old dusty trail, and light out for the territories. As

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Speaker 1: Mark Twain was wont to say, so when people disappear

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Speaker 1: because of this spiritual calling, this revelation, right, this imperative

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Speaker 1: from a supernatural force. Right, when this happens for most people,

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Speaker 1: at least most people here in the States, it's just

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Speaker 1: another example of freedom of religion. If you're not hurting anyone,

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Speaker 1: you're allowed to do what you feel like doing. Right,

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Speaker 1: If you're over eighteen, you can move wherever you want

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Speaker 1: to move if it's within the legal you know, constraints

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Speaker 1: of citizenship and everything. Right, Yeah, so if you want,

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Speaker 1: if you just decide, If if Paul one day, for instance,

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Speaker 1: halfway through this recording says, you know what done, I'm

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Speaker 1: don zo, I'm out of this. I am going going

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Speaker 1: to Mississippi, Mississippi. I'm going to Mississippi. I'm only gonna

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Speaker 1: wear blue clothes. These are the two things I realized.

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Speaker 1: I'll build the religion around that. Then he can absolutely

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Speaker 1: do that, and there's nothing wrong with it. There's nothing

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Speaker 1: wrong with people doing this as individuals or as intentional communities,

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Speaker 1: unless that is there's more to the story, but let's

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Speaker 1: start as the Mad Hatter was rumored to say at

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Speaker 1: the beginning those yeah, I believe that he doesn't. I

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Speaker 1: don't believe he actually makes that quote. He is also

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Speaker 1: not called the mad Hatter. Oh yeah, yep, yep. I

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Speaker 1: remember we discussed that on this show before, did we.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I think we briefly brought that up.

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Speaker 1: The mad Hatter not actually being the mad Hatter. He's

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Speaker 1: not that mad, just the hatter, I think, Oh man,

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Speaker 1: but he is. Okay, so he is mad, but he

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Speaker 1: is not the Mad Hatter, right, and he's mad because

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Speaker 1: that's an allusion to the mercury right used to form hats,

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Speaker 1: the felt of hats. I remember we talked about this.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, the past is blurring, you know, a watercolor

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Speaker 1: in the rain. Oh, thank you. We're done that. So

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Speaker 1: so here are the facts. We're talking about this group that,

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Speaker 1: according to itself, doesn't really subscribe to the concept of names.

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Speaker 1: You know what I mean. Correct, It's not about the name.

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Speaker 1: It's not about the name. It's the system, man, that's

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Speaker 1: what it's about. And we would like to introduce you

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Speaker 1: to the leader of the group we're exploring today, brother

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Speaker 1: evangelist jim Roberts. According to Jay Gordon Melton's Encyclopedia of

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Speaker 1: American Religions, this gentleman Jimmy T. Roberts was born in Paducah, Kentucky,

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Speaker 1: on June five, nineteen thirty nine. He was the son

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Speaker 1: of a part time Pentecostal preacher named Koy Roberts now

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Speaker 1: jim Me was one of six siblings, and his family

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Speaker 1: was not very well off. Their impoverished living in poverty,

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Speaker 1: and Coy couldn't seem to hold a steady job. This

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Speaker 1: is the father, Jimmy's father, and most of the family's

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Speaker 1: income came from the mother, Mrs Roberts job down to

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Speaker 1: the town drug store, absolutely Matt And for the Roberts family,

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Speaker 1: we see that the idea of material gain is it's

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Speaker 1: not the primary focus of their lives. They're the primary

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Speaker 1: focus of their lives seems to be religion or spiritual calling.

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Speaker 1: Both parents deeply religious. We mentioned that he the father,

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Speaker 1: was a part time Pentecostal preacher. He was at a

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Speaker 1: place called the Church of Jesus Christ granted not the

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Speaker 1: most creative name. It was a small independent church pastored

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Speaker 1: by a man named Herby Reid, and Jim's mother was

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Speaker 1: a member of an anti Trinitarian United Pentecostal church. And well,

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Speaker 1: we'll discuss what that means a little later. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: thought I thought of you. I was reading some of

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Speaker 1: this stuff. I think I knew you were going to

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Speaker 1: be our go to pick to explain this, because you

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Speaker 1: know some of the doctrinal differences there. It's a bit strange,

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Speaker 1: but we'll get to it. So Jim himself was preaching

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Speaker 1: by the age of fifteen, and Herby Read's relative recalls

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Speaker 1: him at a very young age saying, hail is hot

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Speaker 1: and there's no ass water. Oh man, Just such an observation,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's I think it gives us a sense

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Speaker 1: of the type of oration he was he was presenting. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a simple image that he's giving you.

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Speaker 1: There's something that you won't be able to have while

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Speaker 1: you're in this place that's really bad, so you've gotta

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Speaker 1: keep yourself away from it. And also it is a

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Speaker 1: a fire and brimstone message. Very it's a very much

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Speaker 1: like that early American work centers in the hands of

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Speaker 1: an angry God. It's dwelling not on the good stuff,

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Speaker 1: the nice things that might happen, or you know, the

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Speaker 1: glory the kingdom of heaven. It's dwelling on the punishments

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Speaker 1: of the dangers. This is really interesting for as we're

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Speaker 1: getting into this a little later, what Jim's views are

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Speaker 1: are the way he shaped his beliefs about spirituality. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he kept this consistent theme. He was also a smart

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Speaker 1: kid who was only child and his family to finish

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Speaker 1: high school. And we're not equating intelligence necessarily one to

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Speaker 1: one with going through an educational system successfully, as anyone

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Speaker 1: who has experienced with rural America or rural parts of

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Speaker 1: the world will know, often very very intelligent children are

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Speaker 1: not able to participate in the education system because they

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Speaker 1: have to work on maybe an agricultural field or some

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Speaker 1: out provide income for their family. But despite these obstacles,

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Speaker 1: Jim Roberts made it out of Paduca. In nine fifty eight,

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Speaker 1: he joined the Marine Corps. He became a sergeant. He

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Speaker 1: served until nineteen sixty one, and he was a Vietnam veteran.

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Speaker 1: He returned to civil life and he moved around the

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Speaker 1: United States working a number of jobs. He ended up

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Speaker 1: in Chicago, with the chance that the American dream version

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Speaker 1: of life in the sixties, you know, he found love

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Speaker 1: and he thought, is this my chance to have a spouse,

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Speaker 1: my two point five kids, my nine to five job

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Speaker 1: for a few decades with the gold watch at the end.

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Speaker 1: You don't get those anymore. He probably would have yeah

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Speaker 1: at that time, but the answer is no. His his

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Speaker 1: romance failed, and around the same time he encountered a

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Speaker 1: very eccentric group known as the Jesus People on the

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Speaker 1: North side of Chicago, in a neighborhood called Uptown. It's

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Speaker 1: one of those intentional communities there. You might find a

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Speaker 1: few around. I know in Atlanta there are several you

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Speaker 1: can go and visit. Um just a group of like

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Speaker 1: minded people living together who how do we describe them

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Speaker 1: in a previous episode, These these sorts of communists, people

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Speaker 1: who are extremely on the same page about very specific fate.

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Speaker 1: And there's a lot of stuff that a spiritual, intentional

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Speaker 1: community is just not going to care about. They picked

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Speaker 1: like a number of very small things and then they

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Speaker 1: everybody is in lockstep ideologically about them. This encounter, you know,

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Speaker 1: his experience spending time with the Jesus People provide some

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Speaker 1: high octane fuel to Jim Robert's spiritual journey, and he

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Speaker 1: doubles down on his lifelong dedication to religion. He moves out.

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Speaker 1: You'll hear a couple of different stories about this. One

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Speaker 1: story will tell us that he moves to Missoula, Montana

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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy one, and you'll hear other people say, no,

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Speaker 1: he joined a movement in Colorado. He met a small

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Speaker 1: group of fundamentalist, extremist Christians. So these would be people

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Speaker 1: who recognize a Bible as and and use it right,

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Speaker 1: read from it, and study it as any other Christian would.

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Speaker 1: Christians in the audience. You know, there are multiple versions

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Speaker 1: and iterations of Bibles, which also were setting up as

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Speaker 1: a little bit of foreshadow in here. But but Roberts

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Speaker 1: began to exert influence on this group. He was not

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Speaker 1: content to be a member. He wanted, you see, to

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Speaker 1: be a leader. And coming out of the Vietnam War,

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Speaker 1: his experience as a marine as a Marine sergeant, gave

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Speaker 1: him some hardcore take no poop uh skills when it

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Speaker 1: came to leadership. Oh yeah, everything from the stone cold

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Speaker 1: stare at someone when you're having let's say, a theological

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Speaker 1: argument to keeping someone in line when they're incorrect, or

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Speaker 1: when you believe they're incorrect. They're all kinds of things

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Speaker 1: like that. There was a quote that he had a piercing,

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Speaker 1: mesmerizing gaze, kind of respute and esque, perhaps so he

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Speaker 1: would stare people down, it would mentally dominate them, kind

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Speaker 1: of a Darren Brown. Probably a little bit of pickup

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Speaker 1: artistry in there, you know, the same thing that charismatic

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Speaker 1: religious figures will use. And he successfully became the leader

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Speaker 1: of the group. He had also grown to hate the world,

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Speaker 1: the modern world. Yeah. Remember, now this is him coming

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Speaker 1: off of this relationship that didn't work out after he

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Speaker 1: probably saw it as the golden opportunity and his entire

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Speaker 1: life was ahead of him and he saw it and

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Speaker 1: then it failed. So now he's kind of in a

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Speaker 1: way spiraling into this Like in a way, you could

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Speaker 1: say that, but we're not. You know, you can't ascribe

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Speaker 1: all of this person's actions to this one thing that

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Speaker 1: happened to them, but you can definitely see how it's morphing.

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Speaker 1: And uh, and Roberts realized that, oh my god, the

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Speaker 1: end of the world. It's about to happen. The world

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Speaker 1: is going to end. He felt like his world was ending.

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Speaker 1: He thought he was seeing the signs. You know, there

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Speaker 1: wasn't some date that he told everyone the world is

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Speaker 1: going to end, but you know, he knew it was coming.

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Speaker 1: He could feel it, right, He had a divine revelation.

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Speaker 1: It was something where he thought, you know, people have

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Speaker 1: always said this before, but now I know the end

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Speaker 1: truly is nie. And this means that we must purify ourselves.

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Speaker 1: We have a very small window of time TikTok tik

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Speaker 1: tiktuk TikTok, and a lot of work to do as

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Speaker 1: individuals and as a group. Return to homespun clothes, don't

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Speaker 1: own a car or a house or a bank account,

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Speaker 1: live off the land, and bear a witness or proselytized

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Speaker 1: evangelized so that other people get the message. It's the

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Speaker 1: only way we can be saved. He planned to drop

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Speaker 1: out of society entirely, and he ordered his followers to

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Speaker 1: do the same. In the decades afterwards, this group traveled

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Speaker 1: widely and separately. If you attended college in the United States,

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Speaker 1: by the way, you might have seen one or had

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Speaker 1: a conversation with a small group of people. If they

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Speaker 1: thought you were vulnerable, right, uh so, they would scour

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Speaker 1: college campuses looking for the quote called out. These are

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Speaker 1: the people all the group believes will join them to

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Speaker 1: escape the imminent looming judgment day. This is the birth

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Speaker 1: of the group that would come to be called the Brethren,

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Speaker 1: and we'll continue to explore that group after a quick

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Speaker 1: word from our sponsor. Well, old friend, what do you say, Uh,

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Speaker 1: shall we play the name game with the Brethren? Oh? Yes,

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Speaker 1: let's begin with what they're known as externally to the

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Speaker 1: outside world. Laid on me, the Jim Roberts Group or

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Speaker 1: the Roberts Group. I get that that's probably from some

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Speaker 1: law enforcement or cult hunting networks, right, yeah. And also

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Speaker 1: the parents of of group members they have they have

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Speaker 1: a group, and they call them the Roberts Group. Internally,

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Speaker 1: we'll hear conflicting things. There will be some ex members

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Speaker 1: or survivors of the group who say that it never

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Speaker 1: has a name. Maybe was referred to as the Church,

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Speaker 1: or or they would refer to each other as the

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Speaker 1: brothers and sisters the Body of Christ, the Brethren. But

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Speaker 1: there is another name that has as recently surpassed the

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Speaker 1: other names in terms of popularity, the garbage Eaters. And

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Speaker 1: you did some, you did some digging on this matt.

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Speaker 1: Where did that come from? Well, it comes from their

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Speaker 1: mode of attaining sustenance, at least the group's preferred mode

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Speaker 1: of getting food and water, and that's by either making

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Speaker 1: arrangements with stores that have food that's about to expire

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Speaker 1: and then taking it from them, or just by scavenging,

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Speaker 1: going through dumpsters and dumpster diving. Right, yeah, dumpster diving.

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Speaker 1: And oh yeah, and it was named this or it

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Speaker 1: was coined this on an episode of that was discussing

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Speaker 1: the Roberts Group and they called them garbage eaters. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I believe the host said that name. So that's a little, uh,

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Speaker 1: a little hyperbolic, little derogatory. It does not describe in

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Speaker 1: any way the beliefs of the group or what it

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Speaker 1: stands for anything besides the way that they get food

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Speaker 1: and freaking is um. I know we have a lot

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Speaker 1: of people who have done dumpster diving before in the crowd.

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Speaker 1: Freakidi is um is not an objectionable thing, especially when

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Speaker 1: we consider the sheer just staggering, tragic and disgusting amount

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Speaker 1: of food waste, things that are thrown out when they're

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Speaker 1: perfectly good and they could be feeding starving people. But Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Of course, we can't legally tell you that that's a

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Speaker 1: good idea to go dumpster diving and live off the

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Speaker 1: wasteful spoils of these supermarkets. But we can tell you

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Speaker 1: that in many places is against the law. It's trespassing,

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Speaker 1: and some cases, if you don't know what you're doing,

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Speaker 1: you could easily give yourself some word of food poisoning. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but we can say that you can make some kind

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Speaker 1: of arrangement with maybe a local store or something. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you can at least reach out and see what they say. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can go to the manager of a store at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day. A lot of places like

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Speaker 1: bakeries have to throw stuff out, delis things like that.

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Speaker 1: So they're living in a very low impact weight and

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Speaker 1: they've been mocked or I guess characterized as somehow vile

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Speaker 1: or repellent because they're doing something with the noblest of intentions,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And it's it's strange that

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Speaker 1: that would be what people latch onto. So we do

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Speaker 1: want to say very clearly it's not a it's not

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Speaker 1: a cult that worships garbage and eating it. I would

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Speaker 1: be fascinated by that. I think you would too sure.

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Speaker 1: But but okay, so we know so are this is

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Speaker 1: what we've established. Jim Roberts is the head of this

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Speaker 1: group that where let's I guess we'll call them the

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Speaker 1: Brethren because that's what they're known as internally. Um, and

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Speaker 1: we know that they scavenge for food. Let's talk about

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Speaker 1: what they believe? Yeah, what are their actual beliefs? Matt? Okay,

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Speaker 1: So they officially they follow the teachings of the Old

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Speaker 1: and New Testament, so both books major books of the Bible,

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Speaker 1: but it's taught as interpreted by Jim Roberts, the leader,

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Speaker 1: and literal meanings are given to passages in the Holy Writings,

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Speaker 1: and they tell you know, they we go through some

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Speaker 1: of these, right, don't We have some quotes somewhere in here.

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Speaker 1: We'll get into that, like specifically what pieces of scripture

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Speaker 1: argused to develop the group and kind of control the

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Speaker 1: group and maintain it. Yes, And as we established earlier,

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Speaker 1: there's not just one Bible, you know, there's just one Torah,

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Speaker 1: there's just one Koran. There are different translations, but that

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean the books are different, right, and then there

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Speaker 1: are when we get to the Bible, you at all,

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Speaker 1: you've got all kinds of stuff you got some some

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Speaker 1: have extra books added, some have books taken away. All

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Speaker 1: of these, by the way, are created by people who

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Speaker 1: feel like they're reaching the purest form of it, and

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Speaker 1: then others will rely on different translations. And this great

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Speaker 1: game of telephone essentially proceeds from the ancient eras to

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Speaker 1: our modern day. And they the Brethren, have a particular

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Speaker 1: version of the Bible that they feel is the best,

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Speaker 1: and it's the King James version. You might have seen

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Speaker 1: that one coming. Um, It's according to Roberts, this translation

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Speaker 1: is the one, and all other translations are corrupt, as

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Speaker 1: well as the beliefs of most other outside Christian organizations

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Speaker 1: besides the Brethren. And it sounds strange at first when

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Speaker 1: we think about the King James version being touted as

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Speaker 1: the purest version of the Bible, because of course the

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Speaker 1: original books that would later come into the Bible were

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Speaker 1: not written in English, right and the I believe that

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Speaker 1: the King James version is the third English translation improved

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Speaker 1: by English church authorities. But I don't know, man, Although

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Speaker 1: it sounds crazy, I've heard this reasoning in other rural

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Speaker 1: communities where someone says, well, the King James Bible, and

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Speaker 1: I heard someone say this, Matt, is the closest to

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Speaker 1: what Jesus Christ actually set. Oh yeah, that that was

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Speaker 1: big where I grew up, particularly with members of the South,

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Speaker 1: the Southern Baptist Church, some of those, which is is

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Speaker 1: still do you see what I'm saying? It's still confounds

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Speaker 1: me because when I first heard it, I thought, well,

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Speaker 1: Jesus Christ didn't speak English, so what in the purest

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Speaker 1: form of whatever was said be something that occurred in

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Speaker 1: the language in which was spoken and then originally written. Rationally, Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I would say in my experience, I did not think

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Speaker 1: about that at the time. Really well, I mean again,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a spiritual matter, right, So yes, According

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Speaker 1: to Roberts, the King James version, that's the one, that's

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Speaker 1: the only one except no substitutions. And when it comes

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Speaker 1: to the nature of God, like his mother, Jim Roberts

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Speaker 1: is a staunch anti Trinitarianist, believing that God is not

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Speaker 1: three separate things. Instead the Brethren or Modalists, they think

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Speaker 1: it's all one thing, one God. But Matt, what what

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Speaker 1: exactly is Trinitarianism? Because I feel like we can only

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Speaker 1: get a rough sense of what it is by saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, just by the etymology, it's against three is um.

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Speaker 1: What does that mean? Yes, Trinitarianism or the trinity doctrine.

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Speaker 1: This is the belief that God exists as three separate

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Speaker 1: but equally important persons. And the word persons is used

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Speaker 1: a lot when describing these separations of God. The only

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Speaker 1: thing is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

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Speaker 1: Those three separate things are each made out of the

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Speaker 1: same essence, the same being, the same matter. It's the

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Speaker 1: same thing, it's but at the same time as three

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Speaker 1: separate persons. It's a little weird. The way I think

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Speaker 1: about it is um. Water. You know, water exists as liquid, gas,

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Speaker 1: and a solid, and it can be that the same

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Speaker 1: water can be each of those three states at any time.

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Speaker 1: But it's still h two oh, it's still made of

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Speaker 1: the same exact essence or matter. Um. But then when

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Speaker 1: you get into modalism, this is this one is a

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Speaker 1: bit confusing for me. This is the belief that God

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Speaker 1: is a single being or person that has revealed itself

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Speaker 1: to people in different ways at different times in history. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so when God created the universe, God manifested itself as

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Speaker 1: the creator. Then when Jesus was born and came down

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Speaker 1: to earth. It was again the same God, but manifesting

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Speaker 1: itself in a different way. Um like an incarnation of

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Speaker 1: sorts kind of. But again, when you when you talk

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Speaker 1: about it this way, it seems like it's the exact

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Speaker 1: same belief system, right, Oh, that they're built of the

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Speaker 1: same substance. Yeah, yeah, it is definitely a deep doctrinal point. Yes,

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Speaker 1: but what what you're saying about modalism makes me think

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Speaker 1: of the old story of the mice and the elephant,

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Speaker 1: you know, where these tiny mice run into an elephant

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Speaker 1: for the first time, and one hits against its leg

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Speaker 1: and thinks it's discovered a tree. One hits its nose

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Speaker 1: and thinks it's discovered a snake and snow on without

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Speaker 1: realizing that this is all a greater, single thing. That

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Speaker 1: that's a that's a great point. I just I I

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Speaker 1: kind of don't want to sit in a room and

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Speaker 1: have an argument with somebody who's a a trinitarian and

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Speaker 1: a modalist and just have them argue, because I don't

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Speaker 1: think I would enjoy that. I would watch it, but

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Speaker 1: only if I could have snacks and leave whenever I want. Okay, totally,

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Speaker 1: totally if I would love to hear this doctrinal argument,

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Speaker 1: so long as I do have popcorn with like the

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Speaker 1: option for I don't know what's your what's your snack

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Speaker 1: of choice when you go to the movies? Oh, I

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Speaker 1: bring my own, I don't. I mean um that we

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Speaker 1: can't legally tell people to do that. I don't do that.

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Speaker 1: I just don't go to the movies anymore. Oh man,

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Speaker 1: you are a man of principle, my friends. Well, speaking

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Speaker 1: of principles, yes, let's get into the key scriptures. Yea,

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Speaker 1: the Brethren uses there are several key lines of scripture

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Speaker 1: guiding the brethren. Uh. One is from Luke four three.

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Speaker 1: So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not

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Speaker 1: all he hath, he cannot be my disciples. Literal interpretation.

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Speaker 1: If you don't give up everything, you're screwing up already

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Speaker 1: from the jump. And then there's Matthew as well. Right,

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Speaker 1: I'll read Matthew. There we go and says, and everyone

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Speaker 1: that hath forsaken houses or brethren, or sisters, or father

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Speaker 1: or mother or wife, or children or lands for my

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Speaker 1: namesake shall receive an hundredfold and shall inherit everlasting life.

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Speaker 1: So if you give up everything, you forsake, all the

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Speaker 1: people in your life, all the stuff in your life,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna live forever, at least in a way. Tight. Yep, No, seriously,

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Speaker 1: I think that that sounds like a cool promise, right

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Speaker 1: if that's a old thing. Yeah, but you're the look

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Speaker 1: what you're given up. Yeah, you're inheriting everlasting life away

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Speaker 1: from everything you love, well, away from your worldly loves. Okay, right,

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Speaker 1: that's the idea, is that your real family is going

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Speaker 1: to reward you, your real family being God and your

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Speaker 1: proximity to God. There are a few more you can

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Speaker 1: look up and read to yourself, such as Acts four

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Speaker 1: thirty two. Matthew. Their big Matthew fans. I mean, who

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Speaker 1: isn't I'm I'm I'm a Matthew fan. Parents in the

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Speaker 1: eighties were huge Matthew fans. And there we go. What

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Speaker 1: else do we have? Mark eight thirty five and second

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Speaker 1: Timothy six seven and eight, And we'll just read that

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Speaker 1: one really quickly, For we brought nothing into this world,

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Speaker 1: and it is certain we can carry nothing out, and

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Speaker 1: having food and raiment, let us be therewith content. As

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Speaker 1: we mentioned before, there are no metaphors in this church,

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Speaker 1: which in this group, all of these things are literal interpretations,

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Speaker 1: and they have a rigid, one would say, militaristic hierarchy.

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Speaker 1: The members of the group are put into smaller groups,

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Speaker 1: subgroups cells, in other words, similar to the organizational principles

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Speaker 1: used by some terrorist groups. And they are small, they

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Speaker 1: are nomadic. They might squat in a house, they might

423
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: find a cabin, they might camp in the woods. They

424
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,679
Speaker 1: can range in size. It can be just one person

425
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: sent to a city or area as a scout, as

426
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: a harbinger of sorts, or it can be as many

427
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: as fifteen people. Yeah, there are there are stories of

428
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: groups that will find a house that's abandoned and then actually,

429
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: rather than just squatting per se, just being in that

430
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: house while there's no one living there, making an arrangement

431
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: with the property owner to clean the house, to keep

432
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: the you know, the yard and everything spick and span

433
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: and looking nice, but be able to live there, which

434
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: sounds kind of cool if you're a if you're a

435
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: landowner and you're aware of these folks, they they seem

436
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: like pretty cleaned up people. They're not out doing drugs, right,

437
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 1: They're not um, They're not going to be committing crazy,

438
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: heinous criminal acts on your property. I can see it

439
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: being really troublesome though, because if you've got a house

440
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: that's either abandoned or maybe just no one has rented

441
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: for a long time, and then you have someone a

442
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: tenant like that in your home, and then let's say

443
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: somebody is interested in renting that home or buying that home,

444
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: you can't just kick them out. There's some very complicated

445
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: rules and laws having to do with that. Oh, even squatters, right, yeah, yeah,

446
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: they kick in at various times, depending on the state

447
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:56,719
Speaker 1: or the country you're in. So when and where these

448
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: groups move is ultimately going to be up to the

449
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: Brother Evangelists Jim Roberts, who's known as Brother Evangelists, he's

450
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 1: the elder of Elders now, which is important to the group.

451
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: The membership of these groups always changes. So let's say you,

452
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:20,479
Speaker 1: Paul and I were a three man unit when we

453
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: were sent out to maybe scout for a place in

454
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,479
Speaker 1: New Orleans or near New Orleans, right, and then well

455
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: let's say we hung out. We were we just got

456
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 1: too cool with each other. We said, you know, well

457
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: this this has been a fun ride, but maybe we

458
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: should just stay in New Orleans, you know, start a band,

459
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: I played the oboe or something whatever we play in

460
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: that situation. Well, that would damage the overall group and

461
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: as a result, the membership of these groups, these subgroups,

462
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: these cells changes frequently and they're sent in different directions

463
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: to prevent them from getting any kind of relationship, whether

464
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: a friendships, something like a collegiate thing or even romantic thing. Uh,

465
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: to prevent that from ever becoming a competing focus. Right,

466
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: And it's a very effective way to control people. The

467
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: the additional control system for every cell is what's called

468
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: the elder. Yes, this is the person who has been

469
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: in the group the longest. It's not we're not talking

470
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: to elders as in the oldest alive person. We're talking

471
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: about the oldest member of the group, right right, the

472
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: oldest in terms of if we count them joining the church, yes,

473
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,479
Speaker 1: like day one, absolutely, absolutely absolutely. And then an elder

474
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: is placed in charge of each group or sell or camp,

475
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it. And these elders, then,

476
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: as these cells function, take orders directly from Roberts. Yes,

477
00:31:56,040 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 1: and there are they're not going to be questioned by

478
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: the people who are beneath them. They're just going to

479
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 1: jump when they're told to jump. Because Brother Evangelist roberts

480
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: to change his name to Evangelists. By the way, he

481
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: has the first and last word on any and all issues, questions, declarations,

482
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: and decisions. Furthermore, they have stark gender division with prescribed

483
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: duties for each person based on Oh, and we should

484
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: go ahead and say they only have the two genders

485
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: male or female, and uh, and what kind of stuff

486
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: are they required to do? Well, let's say you're a

487
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: brother of the brethren. You're gonna need to gather all

488
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: the food. You're gonna have to protect the sisters physically,

489
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to witness to people wherever you travel.

490
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: And then if you're a sister, you're gonna have to

491
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: cook and clean and so and serve all the meals

492
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: to the brothers, and on top of that witness. So

493
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: everybody's got a full plate here of things to do.

494
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: The big issue here is that women are subservient to

495
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: the brothers. There's and and you know that is a

496
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: biblical thing. If you're taking the Bible literally, that is

497
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: one thing that you will find in there. Unfortunately, but

498
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: here's the weird thing for a group of this kind,

499
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: in my opinion, the weird thing there is, according to

500
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 1: the Parents Network, there is no sexual or intimate physical

501
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 1: relationship of any kind between these members, the male and

502
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: female members of the Brethren, not even for the purposes

503
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: of procreation. No, just they are I don't know that.

504
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: They're brothers and sisters literally anyway, right, soldiers for their cause.

505
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 1: The one common task for both genders in this group

506
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: is to witness, in other words, to evangelize. And that's

507
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: a little bit about how they interact with one another.

508
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: But we have to get to the biggest question, which

509
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: is this how do they interact with the rest of

510
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 1: the world. And we'll get to that right after a

511
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: word from our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. It's

512
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: the end of the world as we know it, according

513
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: to the Brethren. And while there is a certain allure

514
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 1: to the idea of shucking off all these social constraints

515
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 1: and living as a wandering ascetic or a monk or

516
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 1: a none of sorts, survivors of the group and the

517
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:40,280
Speaker 1: relatives describe it as much less romantic than we might believe,

518
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: much more oriented toward the belief in a coming apocalypse, right,

519
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: and much more rigid than outsiders maybe initially lead to think.

520
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,240
Speaker 1: So we talked a little bit about their recruitment tactic,

521
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: or we we mentioned it, but let's let's dive in.

522
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: Let's dive in, because I think long time listeners are

523
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 1: going to recognize some of these tactics from earlier works. Right. So,

524
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 1: one of their their big recruitment tactic of quote unquote

525
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: calling out people, finding lonely, vulnerable college aged individuals and

526
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,800
Speaker 1: converting them works as both the carrot and a stick

527
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 1: in a very very smart and somewhat subtle way, because

528
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 1: the carrot is hello, welcome, this is the one true church.

529
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 1: We are doing the literal work of God, and you

530
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 1: can be part of this community, the only one that

531
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: will survive Judgment Day, the only one. And along the

532
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: way you will experience such freedom as you've never felt before,

533
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: a freedom from all financial incumbrance and material goods. And

534
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: if you don't go for that, you get the stick.

535
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 1: What's the stick? Oh? You remember that thing Judgment Day

536
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: where everything burns and be comes just charcoal on everywhere.

537
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: Well about that everybody else on the planet, every other

538
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: human that you've ever met, that has ever existed. They

539
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 1: are damned and they've well, here's here's why they've turned

540
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: away from the true church. Obviously, even mom and dad. Yeah,

541
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: even mom and dad. They didn't accept the carrot. So

542
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: there you know they're going to hell. This is literally

543
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,439
Speaker 1: the first and last chance. This right here, me coming

544
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 1: to you and talking to you about my thing. This

545
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 1: is the last chance you get before just fire. Well,

546
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 1: I was going to go to biology one o one,

547
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 1: but now I'm freaked out. You're gonna go to biology.

548
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: Why what are you gonna What are you gonna study

549
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 1: in biology? I was gonna be a doctor. Oh, I'd

550
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: recommend chemistry because all you're gonna have is carbon. That's

551
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 1: all that's gonna be here. Just carbon. Uh. And at

552
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 1: this point, I guess the prisonans say, and you've convinced

553
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 1: me away with these Adidas that I'm wearing away with

554
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 1: this book of biology. There's only one book I need, right,

555
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: That's that's how it would happen. It's this King James.

556
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: It's this King James specifically accept no substitutions. What's fascinating

557
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 1: about this carrot and this stick is it sets the

558
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:25,240
Speaker 1: first precedent for interaction between the initiatives and existing group members,

559
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 1: whether their brothers or sisters or elders or what have you,

560
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: because it puts forth a dichotomy and for the rest

561
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 1: of their lives, if they're in this church, there is

562
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: no gray area. There is only the black white yes,

563
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 1: no followed, don't follow, salvation or damnation for every decision,

564
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 1: which is amazing and terrifying. Uh. And additionally, as as

565
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 1: you said, Matt, the inner hierarchy of the church is absolutists.

566
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: They're determined entirely by when someone joined and how long

567
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 1: did been a member of the group. We found a

568
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 1: pretty interesting crowdsourced interview from a survivor who wished to

569
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 1: remain anonymous, and he said, if you joined the church

570
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 1: one week before someone else, you had to quote obey

571
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: that dude as if he was a servant of God

572
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: that was sent to be your elder. The women that

573
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 1: were in the group for twenty years were to be

574
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: subject and obedient to a brother that was there for

575
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: only a year. Young women were subject to everyone. One

576
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 1: thing that comes to mind is that there was a

577
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: seventeen year old boy there was an elder according to

578
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 1: the length of time that he was in the church,

579
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: which was all of his life, so members must be

580
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: totally subject to him, even forty year olds. If you

581
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 1: were fifty year old and joined eight years ago, you

582
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:52,280
Speaker 1: were subject to anything that seventeen year old said, unless

583
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: it was super unreasonable, like told to do some atrocious

584
00:38:55,560 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 1: act right right, or told to do something physically impossible. Yes,

585
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 1: grow another hand, no, out of your but you know,

586
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,320
Speaker 1: I I hopefully this kid wasn't say that sort of stuff.

587
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's it's entirely time based. I don't sorry, man,

588
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 1: I just I went blue. I went to blue. I'm

589
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 1: with you, I'm trying it. Just no, please don't try.

590
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 1: No one listening to attempt that. So that's that that

591
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: internal communication is troubling communication with family and authorities. This

592
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 1: is where we find the really sticky stuff and the

593
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: most direct stuff. They don't want you to know in

594
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 1: regards to this organization, whether you want to call it

595
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: a church, whether you want to call it a spiritual movement,

596
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 1: whether you want to call it a cult. They do

597
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: not want you to know where they're going, what they're doing,

598
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 1: or why they have been told old that they must abjure,

599
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:09,240
Speaker 1: hate and loathe everything from their past life, their life

600
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 1: started over when they joined the church. Yeah, there's no

601
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 1: contact with family members who are outside of the structure

602
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:22,919
Speaker 1: whatsoever at all, unless, of course jim himself, old Jimmy says, hey,

603
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: you can talk to these guys, and if and if

604
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: he says it's okay, then it's okay. But the majority

605
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: of the time, just parents, siblings, friends, the rest of

606
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: the family. They're just completely locked out of the lives

607
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 1: of the members of the Brethren, right, and it can

608
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 1: happen suddenly. You can reaccounts detailing how Roberts would instruct

609
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:49,879
Speaker 1: people to isolate themselves or to maintain contact and write

610
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: a letter to their parents. That's one of the first

611
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:53,800
Speaker 1: things they did, to write a letter and say, hey, sorry,

612
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 1: I can't be in your life anymore, right, and I

613
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: don't want you to be all glory to God. You know,

614
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,919
Speaker 1: this is consensual on my part, That's what their letter says, uh.

615
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: And for it to be sent en route while they

616
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 1: are traveling by bike or by bus often or occasionally

617
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 1: by train hopping. And I think if you still do that.

618
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 1: And additionally, we have to mention several of these these

619
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 1: people who are joining this movement or we're joining it

620
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,399
Speaker 1: are not on necessarily on the fringes of society. We're

621
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 1: talking about the owners of multimillion dollar businesses. We're talking

622
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: about people who were attending Harvard, which, from what what

623
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:37,280
Speaker 1: you may have heard, is an okay school, and there

624
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 1: throwing away all their worldly possessions to to join this thing.

625
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 1: They're throwing away their relationships, and they are chastised if

626
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: they attempt to reach out to their parents. And you

627
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 1: can see or their parents, or their their spouse or whomever,

628
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 1: and you can see the way that this splinters the group.

629
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: But you can also just imagine if you don't have

630
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: access to a cell phone, you'll have access to an

631
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: internet connection unless you go into a library, right or

632
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 1: unless you find a quarter for a pay phone, you

633
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: can you can use a payphone if you can find

634
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: one in That's the only way you can communicate. I

635
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 1: guess you. You could also send a letter, but you

636
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: can't wait around for that letter to return, because you

637
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 1: don't know when you're leader will tell you to move

638
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: somewhere else. You don't know where they're going to just

639
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: tell you to move. It's complete speculation. But I imagine

640
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 1: if word got to Roberts that you had sent a

641
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 1: letter of any kind to someone in any way, you

642
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 1: might get a notice to get on the move, just

643
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: because that idea of you've got a from address. You

644
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: know there's a return address on there, and that could

645
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 1: you could give up the whole cell awful to thing

646
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 1: about it that way, but you can. It's just so

647
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 1: easy to use a fake address. Just write down a

648
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,399
Speaker 1: name of building in the zip code where you happy

649
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 1: to be mailing the letter from. Yes, but when you

650
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,439
Speaker 1: mail the letter from that zip code, it's going through

651
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 1: the postal services or however you got it there system,

652
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 1: and you're you know, you can at least get a

653
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: rough area of where it came from. That's true, that's true.

654
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:19,359
Speaker 1: But who doesn't love getting mail? Also in this stage,

655
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:21,839
Speaker 1: I feel like I have to point that out. You

656
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: can always send us mail, by the way, if you wish.

657
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 1: And that's a little bit of levity because we're going

658
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 1: into some dark territory here. Discussion with outsiders is only

659
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 1: allowed to the extent that it encourages more people to

660
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: join the group, or that it attends to a need

661
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: of the existing group. Discussion internally, the way that we

662
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 1: would understand discussion is not allowed at all. Verboten, the

663
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 1: Germans would say, similar to the Marines. Oddly enough, the

664
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: Brethren follow a strict chain of command. Wearing contradictions are

665
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: not only not allowed, they do not exist. They're impossible.

666
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: They are impossible. That it's uh, it's it's bad double

667
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 1: plus I'm good, yeah, exactly. Due to the eminent approach

668
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 1: of the end of days, single members are banned from marrying, as,

669
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: according to Roberts, there's not enough time. In other words,

670
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 1: members are supposed to dedicate themselves entirely just spreading the

671
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 1: message of the church. Couples with children were allowed to

672
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: join back in the day, but the rules for those

673
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: kids were incredibly strict, including get this, a ban on playing,

674
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 1: which is just disastrous to me. That's the way you

675
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: become a human as you play. And the bulk of

676
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 1: their conversation is conducted through pay phones only they we

677
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,800
Speaker 1: don't know. In the modern day, for whichever members of

678
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 1: the Brethren are out there, we we still don't know

679
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 1: if they're using burner phones not as effective anymore as

680
00:44:55,080 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 1: concealing for concealing your location, they still work. This work,

681
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 1: and you know, it's still better than buying a cell

682
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 1: phone service plan. When you have renounced all worldly possessions.

683
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: I guess the cell phone is a worldly possession. Yeah,

684
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:17,839
Speaker 1: but so we're closed, right, But they make those? Do

685
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 1: you think they can make cell phones? Maybe if they

686
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: make self this changes everything for me, I might think there.

687
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:29,439
Speaker 1: I would just be impressed by the mcgiverishness of it. Yeah,

688
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,800
Speaker 1: it's tough to dumpster dive for all those rare earth minerals.

689
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: But maybe I don't know, who knows, maybe the recycling

690
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: program for electronics. So in the darker realm here we

691
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 1: see the allegations of abuse. The good news is that

692
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 1: they're not allegations that we can find of sexual abuse,

693
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 1: other than forcing people to ignore their own sexuality, right,

694
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 1: which is a form of abuse. The big thing we

695
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 1: found was emotional abuse. Members are held hostage to this

696
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,320
Speaker 1: group by the fundamental belief that leaving the Brethren is

697
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:16,879
Speaker 1: tantamount to committing suicide. It's actually worse than committing physical suicide,

698
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:23,359
Speaker 1: because you are sacrificing your soul. Yeah, the real thing

699
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 1: that matters. And when members are suspected of straining off

700
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: the path, they are harshly warned they're probably putting a

701
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:36,720
Speaker 1: new cell with strangers or people they don't know very well,

702
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 1: and if they are ex members, they are completely and

703
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:48,280
Speaker 1: successfully shunned because, you know, like the practice you've probably

704
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 1: read about with the Amish or maybe some other groups,

705
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:57,240
Speaker 1: this group will as a community, as a unit, ghost

706
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: on its ex members, and they're very very very good

707
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: at hiding. At least, you know, they don't sue the

708
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: pants off of them their ex members the way some

709
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: other conversations you know have m hm anyway, Um, Lauren, Yeah,

710
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 1: that that's what it is, Laurent, laurn hubbish Yep, I'm

711
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 1: almost there. Who is it? I can't think of it.

712
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 1: All I know. All I know is that when it

713
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 1: comes to going to the doctor or getting medicine any

714
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 1: kind of prescription, there is some weird stuff going on

715
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:41,320
Speaker 1: with a Brethren. Yeah. The second the second tier or

716
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:46,240
Speaker 1: type of abuse would be negligence in terms of medical treatment.

717
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 1: You see, the Brethren believe that the use of medicine

718
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 1: and doctors does not give the example of living by faith.

719
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 1: That's a quote. So in some cases members are believed

720
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: to have died from curable conditions or injuries do entirely

721
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 1: to the group's position to modern medical treatment or any

722
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 1: medical treatment. So for anyone wondering why we're using the

723
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 1: phrase are believed to have, it's because again, a lot

724
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: of people go off the grid. And like we discussed

725
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: in our Missing for one one episode, is a couple

726
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 1: of other things. It is still in the age of

727
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 1: GPS and spookily sophisticated satellites. It is still possible to

728
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 1: this disappear in this country easier in fact than you

729
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:34,920
Speaker 1: might think, certainly and disturbingly so correct. But they have

730
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,879
Speaker 1: found some people, right, yes, they have, and some people

731
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 1: have come forward. Some We found a Reddit thread where

732
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 1: people were discussing this group and a couple of people

733
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 1: saying that they were four members. Um, it's out there,

734
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 1: m hm, and you can get out. And that's the

735
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 1: big thing. I don't know how you would be listening

736
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:59,319
Speaker 1: to this if you are um a member. It's much

737
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 1: more likely that family members of someone who became a

738
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 1: part of Brethren is actually listening to these words. And

739
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 1: let's let's take a moment in describe perhaps what you

740
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 1: can do. The first thing that we found when we

741
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 1: were looking into this is something called the Roberts Group

742
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 1: Parents Network, and it has a website n f I

743
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 1: s H E L dot tripod dot com. It's an

744
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 1: old tripod website. It's pretty great though, if you go

745
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 1: through there. The mission of the website says in the

746
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: group is to release the members of the control of

747
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:41,359
Speaker 1: the Roberts Group and established two way communication and an

748
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 1: open and loving relationship between members and their families. So

749
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:49,280
Speaker 1: they just want to reconnect family members with members of

750
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,479
Speaker 1: the Roberts Group, right, And it goes on to say

751
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 1: that if you recognize anyone on these pages, or if

752
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 1: you suspect your loved one is a part of the

753
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 1: Roberts Group, we empathize with you. We know the pain

754
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 1: you feel and deeply regret that you share our situation.

755
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:05,919
Speaker 1: On the other hand, we'd like to welcome you into

756
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 1: our fellowship. We've been brought together from all parts of

757
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: the country by our common loss. Our sorrow is the same.

758
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 1: In supporting each other, we find new strength to make

759
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 1: it through one day at a time and the new

760
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 1: hope that we will be reunited with the loved ones

761
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 1: that were taken from our lives. So really, I mean,

762
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 1: it's it's a sobering thing to go through that website

763
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 1: because it describes exactly the types of people that are

764
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:36,839
Speaker 1: usually joining this group. UM. It talks about in full

765
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:40,360
Speaker 1: the scriptures, It talks about how the recruiting occurs, and

766
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 1: their even letters there written to the sons and daughters

767
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 1: of people who have joined the group and chosen to

768
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 1: leave their family behind. UM. I would say this is

769
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:57,240
Speaker 1: probably a good group to join if you are dealing

770
00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 1: with something like this. If you don't like to join groups,

771
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,240
Speaker 1: maybe you don't do that. If you're suspicious of all groups.

772
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 1: Now at this point I can I would understand that. However,

773
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 1: this is one to at least look at. Yeah, well

774
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 1: said met and agreed. And currently this brings us up

775
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 1: to speed on the background and the nature of the

776
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:24,839
Speaker 1: very very secretive group traveling off the grid entirely here

777
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 1: in the US and possibly in Canada, Mexico at times

778
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:34,360
Speaker 1: known as the Brethren or thanks to the garbage Eaters.

779
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 1: We do have one last piece of news here in conclusion,

780
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 1: Brother evangelist Jim Roberts passed away at the age of

781
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 1: seventies six in twenty fifteen, likely due to cancer. He

782
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 1: had not seen a doctor in forty years who was

783
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 1: practicing what he preached UM, and he had been alternately

784
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 1: described vibed as a sweet and harmless man or a

785
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 1: quote paranoid meglomaniac who wanted to control every aspect of

786
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 1: his followers lives. As of a few years ago, the

787
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,800
Speaker 1: population of the group, which was never super super large,

788
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 1: had reduced to around sixty or so members. Are they

789
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:24,359
Speaker 1: still out there today riding the rails somewhere? Is there

790
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 1: still someone who wants to contact their loved ones and

791
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 1: people from the life they left behind, but are too

792
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:39,239
Speaker 1: intimidated to do so. These are open questions. We do

793
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:41,840
Speaker 1: not know the answer, and there are very few people

794
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 1: who do. Many of those who do know the answer,

795
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 1: I don't want to be found. I don't know where

796
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 1: we go from here, Ben, Besides just saying, beliefs are

797
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 1: tricky things. They they they can be like viruses. Sometimes

798
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 1: they function almost exactly like virus. Is a good belief

799
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 1: can spread and infect and reproduce itself in the minds

800
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 1: of others, which is a beautiful thing and a terrifying thing.

801
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 1: And one of the most important parts of this show

802
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 1: that we have to touch on here is the following.

803
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 1: If you are or someone you know is involved in

804
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 1: a cult like group, or let's say, if we don't

805
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:30,839
Speaker 1: want to use the c word uh. Let's say an

806
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 1: organization that is forcing them to do things against their

807
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:38,239
Speaker 1: will and isolating them. And you're starting to see some

808
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:41,800
Speaker 1: of these red flags. Do not be afraid to reach

809
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:46,840
Speaker 1: out two groups like the Jim Roberts parent group that

810
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 1: you mentioned, Matt. Don't be afraid to call someone for

811
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 1: advice or look on forums. The resources are there, and

812
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:58,800
Speaker 1: many times it sounds easy to say, oh, there's nothing

813
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:03,280
Speaker 1: physically keeping someone in a spot, but we must remember

814
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 1: that the heaviest, strongest chains we have ever put on

815
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:12,799
Speaker 1: a human being are always chains of ideas, not change

816
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: of steel or iron, and the chains that exists in

817
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 1: your mind, and sometimes you need help to be free

818
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:22,319
Speaker 1: of them. You can find Ben and Nolan I on

819
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 1: Twitter where we're conspiracy Stuff, the same on Facebook. On

820
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 1: Instagram we are Conspiracy Stuff Show. We have a website

821
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know, where you can

822
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:33,840
Speaker 1: find every podcast we've ever made and some videos and

823
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 1: other stuff on there. You can call us we are

824
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 1: one eight three three st d w y t K.

825
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 1: Leave a message and you might end up on a

826
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:46,719
Speaker 1: show sometime in the near future. And if you don't

827
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: want to do any of that, you can send your

828
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 1: suggestions or your questions, or your comments to conspiracy at

829
00:54:53,200 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com, m