WEBVTT - The Lowdown on Anonymous 0:00:00.920 --> 0:00:04.080 Welcome to you stuff you should know friend House Stuff 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:13.039 Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:17.040 Josh Clark. There's Charles W Chuck Bryant and Knowles over there. 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:24.239 So this stuff you should know. Yeah, the Web edition. Yeah, 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:26.800 we've heard of the web Uh huh. I want to 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:29.639 point out there's a work party going on. This is 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:32.239 how dedicated we are. Right outside our door, people are 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:34.560 out there drinking and eating and having a good time 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:39.160 and drinking alcohol. We're just in here working free alcohol. Yep. 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:42.120 Even Knolls over there eating right in front of us. Yes, 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:48.560 thanks for that because it's making a lot easier. So um, Chuck, Yes, 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:52.400 have you heard of Anonymous? I have? Indeed, I have 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:55.120 heard of Anonymous as well, because you know, I read 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:58.400 the newspaper and things like that. You're a hip, happening guy. 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:03.360 Super um. But I didn't understand really in any way 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:08.000 how Anonymous actually worked until researching this episode. Very interesting. 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:11.720 I think we should say we're not experts here, probably 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:14.480 going to get some stuff wrong. Let's just hope it's 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:18.640 a little like mostly right rather than maybe like the 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:23.679 Sun episode. We're sorry and advance Anonymous right, So take 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:26.280 take your ire out on us. I think we're in 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:30.640 good shape. Actually, I read one of their key characteristics 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:35.559 is that they don't talk about the group, they don't 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:39.919 disclose their own identity, and they don't attack the media. 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:43.440 Typically they don't. There was actually an attack carried out 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:48.640 by an anonymous offshoot named wool sec that, um, I 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:50.480 guess you could call it an attack of the front 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:55.360 Line PBSS frontline website. Yeah, they posted a fake news 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:58.960 story that said Tupac was alive and well in New Zealand. 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:02.120 I don't know if that really constitutes an attack. I 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:05.280 guess technically it does, but that that did get some 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:07.880 people in the media a little little nervous, like, oh, 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:10.000 is the media now fair game? But I think yeah, 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:13.119 for the most part, we're media. If we're anything right, 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:16.519 I think a we have some listeners who are a 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:19.440 nons which is what anonymous members are called. You think 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:22.680 so absolutely, You're probably right, not a doubt in my mind. 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:26.600 And I think they're gonna love this because they like press, 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:29.600 they like you know, headlines, and they like for people 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:32.080 to know what they're doing. Even though they are in 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:36.760 the shadows as far as their identities they are, they 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:39.440 fully claim what they do and stand behind what they do, 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:42.400 you know. Yeah, And then I mean, I think it's 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:47.600 pretty smart to keep their identities anonymous because there are 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:50.720 a lot of federalities after anybody who does any kind 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:54.120 of computer crime these days, and the laws are really 0:02:54.200 --> 0:03:01.360 draconian and really strict and really disproportionately um tough. Yes, 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:04.440 And the government uses some of the same tactics that 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:08.959 Anonymous uses to go after people an anonymous, which which 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:11.400 as we'll see, really ticks Anonymous off. Yeah. They think 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:14.600 they're big fat hypocrites basically, and they have a pretty 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:20.440 decent case in a lot of cases. So chuckers, Um, 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:22.720 I guess let's start at the beginning. Yeah, I don't 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:24.400 want to do that deal where people like you never 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:27.400 even said what Anonymous was, right. So, Anonymous is a 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:32.200 group of activists, hacker activists. That term was coined I 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:36.000 think in either six by a Cult of the Dead 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:40.080 Cow member, which was an early hackers group. They really 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:42.920 kind of set the stage in the eighties and nineties 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:46.640 of what computer hackers and actually telephone hackers initially are 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:49.520 meant to do. And and the idea is that um, 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:53.360 freedom of speech and in the freedom of information is 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:55.960 sacro sanct should not be messed with, and people who 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:58.520 do mess with it deserve to be messed with themselves. 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:02.800 But even that contains real Yeah, and they are. They've 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:08.360 been described as everything from a collective um to a uh, 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:12.760 shape shifting subculture, so that Miko kipon En called them 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:15.920 or Bear Brown, a Texas journalist, said, uh, they're what 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:19.520 they really are as a series of relationships. Yeah, so 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:23.440 it's you know, it's all very secretive. It's not and 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:25.920 we'll get into this more, but it's not an organization 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:28.320 and where they go and meet every week with a 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:32.159 president and of treasurer and they wear their guy Fox 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:34.880 masks and they get together and decide what to do next. Right, 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:38.520 which makes them really, really really difficult to take on 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:42.000 if you're a centralized body like the US federal government, 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:46.840 because really, and what Anonymous is is an idea and 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:50.120 a concept and there's an ever shifting group of people 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:52.839 that come in and out of it. And the whole 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:57.640 idea is pretty simple. If somebody sees a wrong going 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:00.440 on somewhere in the world, and the person and carrying 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:03.320 out that wrong can be gotten to via the Internet, 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:06.479 then they go and they try to rally the troops, 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:09.040 and if enough people say, you know what, you're right, 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:11.560 that is messed up and we should do something about it, 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:16.240 they that that idea will have enough support that what 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:19.280 happens is Anonymous that ends up carrying out an op 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:23.240 an operation against that target, and there you go. Those 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:27.640 people may never join together again for another operation, that 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:30.920 that operation may end up becoming an even larger operation. 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:34.880 It's totally unpredictable and it's completely fluid, and that means 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:36.920 that if you bust some people, which the US government 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:39.839 has done plenty of times, there's gonna be tons of 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:42.400 other people to come take their place. Yeah, you can't 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:48.200 kill Anonymous, uh, And what might happen is everything from 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:50.760 something a little more lighthearted like taking over your website 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.320 and replacing the banners with your own messages, to completely 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:59.479 disabling your website altogether so no one can even access it. 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:02.920 The writer named Brian Kelly said there are three key 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:07.039 characteristics of the group. One an unrelenting moral stance on 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:10.640 issues and rights, regardless of direct provocations. In other words, 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:13.440 it's not like someone's messing with Anonymous, so they're gonna 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:17.120 fight back. In fact, it rarely is. It's usually you know, 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:22.039 like Westberg Baptist Church or Scientology. Uh, and that's I 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:24.760 don't I know that that's that covers all of Anonymous. 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:28.080 There's long almost from the beginning, there's long been fractures 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:31.160 in the group between people who just want lulls, which 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:36.320 is like entertaining yourself at other people's expense, basically trolling people, 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:38.960 just a mess with them for last whatever, and others 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:42.640 who say, no, we've got a really powerful weapon here. 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:46.200 The Internet is serious business and we need to go um, 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:50.080 we need to use it for like moral crusades. Basically 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:55.840 uh number two, a physical presence that accompanies the online hacking. 0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:59.760 So don't just stop it like disabling someone's website, but 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.479 get out in the streets with those Guy Fox masks. 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:06.200 If you've seen the movie V for Fvendetta, or you 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:09.760 know anything about the fifth of November, you know the 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:12.840 mask that I'm referring to. Yeah. Um, And actually that 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:17.320 mask being used by Anonymous goes back even beyond V 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:21.240 for Vendetta. Actually there was a meme called um fail 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:24.920 I think epic fail guy Yeah, and he was the meme. 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:26.960 It was like a stick figure wearing the Guy Fox 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:29.800 mask and everywhere he went. He just screwed everything up. 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:32.040 It's cool mask. Yeah, so they were like, we'll use 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:37.040 that mask. And number three a distinctive brand, which you 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:39.640 know is that guy Fox mask. I mean they're great 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:42.800 at branding. Yeah, you know that. In the in the 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:45.200 suit and tie with a question mark in place of 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:48.360 a head is one of their logos, which is great logo. 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:53.680 And what is there? What is there their logline? We 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:57.120 are Anonymous, we are legion. We do not forgive, we 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:01.400 do not forget, expect us a little creepy. It is 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:06.720 a little creepy. They're scaring. Uh, they're scaring people who 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:09.960 and I'm not scared, but if you're doing something wrong, 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:12.440 then you should be scared, you know what I'm saying. Yes, 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:15.640 And a lot of people will say, well, no, actually 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:18.320 there's um you know, Anonymous will come after you even 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:22.480 if you didn't do anything really wrong. Um, that's not 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.880 necessarily true. There are like offshoots to have you know, 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:29.040 come and gone that that do believe much more in 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:30.880 mayhem and stuff like that. But when you think of 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:33.679 Anonymous these days, typically you do think of there is 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:38.080 some sort of moral aspect tomension to the thing that's 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:40.199 being carried out. And it depends on what your definition 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:42.040 of right and wrong is too be there. Clearly a 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:45.720 lot of people think that there anarchists that should be 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:49.240 jailed and throw away the key. There's other people who think, no, 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:54.360 you know what they're they're taking on the immoral corporate giants, 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:57.880 not just corporate giants that are doing really bad things 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:03.720 behind closed doors. Pretty interesting, Oh, it's super interesting. Should 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:06.440 we take a break? Sure? All right, let's take a 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:08.240 break and we'll dig in a little bit more right 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:20.440 after this. Hey, everybody out there in podcast land, we 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:22.720 want to alert your to what we're gonna call a 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:27.000 podcasting event, an event like the moon landing, but for podcasting. Basically, 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:29.559 that's right. It's a new podcast from ge Podcast Theater 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:33.240 and Panopally called The Message. It's an eight episode series 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:36.360 that's pretty much gonna blow your scientific mind. Yep. The 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:39.319 Message follows the story of Nicki Tomlin, a PhD in 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:42.480 linguistics from the University of Chicago, who follows a team 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:45.880 of cryptologists at a research think tank called Cipher. These 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.560 researchers are trying to decode a message that was received 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:53.079 from outer space seventy years ago. It's gonna be pretty awesome, man, 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:55.280 that's amazing. And if you want to subscribe, and you 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:58.240 should just go to iTunes look it up or wherever 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:00.280 you get your podcasts. Yeah, we'll be you and that 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:02.800 won't we That's right available now wherever you get podcast 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:18.560 including iTunes, g E, podcast theaters. The message. So, Chuck, 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:20.800 let's go back to the beginning, shall we be? This 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:23.200 whole idea of like, you know, we are legion, we 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:26.800 do not forget, we do not forgive, expect us. That's 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:30.720 a pretty far cry from how Anonymous ended up starting, right. Yeah. 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:34.400 So there's this site um called four chan. Four Chan 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:37.200 has all sorts of what are called image boards, right yeah. 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:40.160 It was created in two thousand three by a fifteen 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:43.480 year old and Christopher Pool. And Christopher Pool's whole thing 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:45.640 was like, I want to have a place on the 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:50.720 Internet that's totally censer free and anonymous. Yes self, no 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:54.840 self censorship. No, there's nobody in charge, there's no rules, 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:58.240 there's no nothing like that. Um, it is just whatever 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:00.120 you want to post, whatever you want to say, you 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:03.760 want to troll somebody troll them, and it's it's it's all. 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:06.720 Let's just not take things too seriously, shall we? But 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:09.240 let's also see how far we can push other people 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:14.640 to take things seriously. And um so four chan attracted 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:17.800 a certain kind of um net is in I guess 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:21.439 pretty quickly off the bat and this one, this one 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:26.679 image board in particular um b slash b slash. It's like, uh, 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:31.120 four chan dot org slash b slashes, it's the random board, 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:36.959 it's whatever. Um people started kind of congregating there and 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:40.920 finding that um, they they all shared this kind of 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:46.120 like desire to mess with people. Yeah, and then Anonymous 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:48.640 sort of evolved out of that because there were some 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:51.240 people saying, you know what, let's step this up a 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:54.240 notch and let's not just goof off and have fun. 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:59.440 Let's actually let's like actually trying to accomplish something for good. Yeah, 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:02.439 and again that caused that caused a riff, like right 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:05.120 from the beginning because some of the people were like, no, originally, 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:07.440 we're doing this for fun. There was this thing called 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:10.840 the Hebo Hotel, which is basically like a kind of 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:14.120 a weird second life hang out that they went and 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:19.520 infiltrated and just populated UM with characters that would like 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:22.960 block the pool or basically just like shut down the site, 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:25.439 take it over, just to mess with people, and it 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:28.679 was fun. They were having fun doing it, just screwing 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:32.960 with people, and other people said, um, no, let's use 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:35.520 this for good. And that actually kind of came accidentally 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:38.400 out of messing with a guy named Hal Turner. Have 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:44.839 you heard of him? Uh? Hal Turner? Right? So Hal 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:50.319 Turner was this um extraordinarily racist radio host and he 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:53.160 UM got pranked by some of the original four Chun 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:57.480 message board members, right Uh. He was getting like prank 0:12:57.559 --> 0:12:59.839 calls or whatever, and he recorded the calls and some 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:02.760 how got the data and UM published it on his 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:05.120 site or released it to his fans and said, hey, 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:07.280 why don't you guys go figure out who these people are? 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:10.400 And they figured out some of them, including some underage 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:14.160 message board members whose parents addresses were posted now on 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:21.800 this virulently racist radio hosts UM website. And so the 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:25.480 people from Fortune said take that down, and he said no, 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:27.880 and they said, okay, well that was your one warning 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:30.200 and they went to town on this guy. And by 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:33.000 the time they were done with Hal Turner, UM, he 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:35.800 was off the air. He was off the air, UM 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:38.360 and in prison for I think a couple of years, 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:41.959 threatening federal judges. They basically went and found like all 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:44.760 these emails and stuff and just published everything, including like 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:47.320 his home address, all this stuff. They took like his 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:51.280 tactic and just turned it on him a million times over. 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:54.800 And that was the one where people said, hey, we 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:58.760 just did something really good. We just got a racist 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:01.600 radio host off air that was thrilling. We should use 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.600 our stuff for good. And again some people said no, 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:07.160 we're just in it for the lulls. Other people said no, 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:09.679 we should do this morally. And then even other people said, well, 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:11.760 wait a minute, wait a minute, what are you guys doing, 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:14.240 Like that guy had a right to free speech and 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.000 you just drove him off the air. How can you 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:18.880 possibly be proud of that? The prong that said no, 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:20.960 there was some good moral dimension to what we just 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:25.000 did using our computing skills for good. What we determine 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:28.560 is good, um, is that's the direction we should go. 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:30.240 And it kind of took off from there. It was 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:35.040 supported by the Operation against Scientology. Yeah, that came along 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:36.720 in the two thousand and eight. That was one of 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:42.120 their first big ops. It's called the Channeology And basically 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:47.080 what they came across was a video UM that we've well, 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:51.520 I was about say, we've all seen everybody obsessed with Scientology, 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:56.760 but to the famous Tom Cruise video where he's um, oh, 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:58.800 he's sort of just rambling and he seems a little 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:02.040 crazy and cookie and talking about Scientology, and it got 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:06.080 out there and Scientology said, um, not very smartly, like, 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:09.800 we want to remove this from the Internet, which is impossible. 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:13.720 I can't do that because it's two thousand eight at 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:16.000 the time, but they were doing a pretty good job 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:18.560 of it. Apparently, Yeah, I saw it, and this was 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:22.640 before the channelogy op so they were trying to get 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:25.840 it down and UM anonymous basically city you know it. Now, 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:29.440 what we're gonna do is, we're gonna we're gonna attack 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:33.320 your website. We're gonna get your everything about Scientology off 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:36.200 the internet. We're gonna um what's it called a di 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:40.320 DOS attack, right, a distributed denial of service attack, which 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:44.560 is kind of key to an anonymous op um. They 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:47.880 attacked Google um with a google bomb for Scientology, So 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:50.720 if you typed in dangerous cult, it directed you to 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:55.080 the Scientology website. They had hundreds and hundreds of pizzas 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:58.600 ordered and sent to Scientology offices worldwide, have you heard 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:01.880 of black faxes. Yeah, they sent them jet black facts 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:03.760 so they would just run out of the ink right 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:07.080 over and over again. Yeah, which all you know, those 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:12.800 are all pretty silly, little harmless um pranks. The Scientologists 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:14.800 didn't take it that way. No, they weren't happy. In fact, 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:16.800 I think they went to the FBI. They did, you 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:19.240 need to look into these people, right, and so we 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:20.800 have to we have to pause her for a second 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:24.080 and point something out. One um. With both the hell 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:28.320 Turner oup and Project Channology, a lot of people say, like, 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:32.200 oh man, they went after this um, this racist uh 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:34.640 radio host and got him off the air. So they 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:38.360 went after Scientology, which is a roundly hated cult and 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:40.920 and tried to drive them out of business. And the 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:43.280 idea is it just stops there. But if you go 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:45.600 a little further, both of those operations were based on 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:51.800 infractions by the offending parties against the Internet. Hell Turner 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:56.800 posted underage four chain users parents addresses on his website. 0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:59.680 Wouldn't take it down. That's a rule broken. That's why 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:02.760 they went an after him. Scientology. They tried to censor 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:05.480 the Internet, and Anonymous thinks of the Internet is like 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.000 their Internet they're the cops of the Internet as far 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:10.359 as they're concerned, and the Internet is not to be 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:13.320 messed with, and they protected like that. UM. And so 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:15.840 when Scientology tried to take that video down and was 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:19.000 trying to sue people who kept it up, that was 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:22.280 that was censorship ship of the Internet. That's why Anonymous 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:24.600 went after the Internet. But again, just like the Hall 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:29.080 Trener operation, the the Project Channology thing took on this 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:33.520 moral dimension and Anonymous was called upon just by UM 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:37.240 a guy named Mark Bunker, who was already an ardent 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:39.639 critic of Scientologists, and he said, why don't you guys 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:42.919 like use your your your what you're doing for legal 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:47.400 productive ways, And so Anonymous called for actual physical protests 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:50.760 of Scientology's churches around the world. Yeah, and I think 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:53.840 now that's that's become one of their hallmarks. That's why 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:58.520 they want to pair the activist activity with a physical 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:02.239 presence and a YouTube video which says have you ever 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:05.600 seen those? Yeah, they're creepy and awesome they are. They're 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:07.680 really well done. It looks it's it's just the whole 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:10.320 thing is like very Mr robot esque, right, And with 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:13.720 every with every video that they released, with every operation, 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:16.520 they release a video ahead of time saying what's gonna happen, 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:19.320 what's going down? Right? Yeah, exactly. And it's very smart 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:22.639 to do that because number one, um, they're they're taking 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:25.440 account they're showing that they're accountable for their actions. They're 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:28.320 taking accountability for it. But also it keeps them from 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:33.120 being scapegoated, and it keeps other people from claiming uh 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:36.879 their work, you know. Yeah. In two thousand ten, with 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:41.520 Operation Payback, UM, they realized they found out that MasterCard, Visa, 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:45.760 and PayPal said we're gonna stop. You won't be able 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:48.840 to donate to wiki leaks using our services anymore. We're 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:52.000 gonna shut that down, which in and of itself they 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:56.119 figured was bad, but as evidence they went and found like, 0:18:56.280 --> 0:19:00.600 um skinhead websites that you could still donate to using 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:04.320 those three mechanisms, but you couldn't donate to wiki leaks. 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:06.800 They were like, okay, that's messed up. Yeah, so they said, 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:08.800 you know what we're gonna do, Um, We're gonna shut 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:11.640 you guys down. And they did. It was a cyber attack, 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:14.520 and they disabled the home pages of Visa, master Card, 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:18.560 and PayPal and um, you know, gloated they had their 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:22.600 own special little smarmie messages back like U. There are 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:25.320 some things Wiki leaks can't do. For everything else, there's 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:29.320 operation payback. Yeah, And so like I said before, with UM, 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:32.520 with an anonymous ops like that, people may disband and 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:35.520 never worked together in another one, or your operation may 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:38.399 grow to include even more stuff. An operation payback is 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:40.800 a really good example of the ladder of those two. 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:44.879 It started out because UM at some point the United 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:49.160 States government hired an Indian firm, an Indian software firm 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:53.280 UM to launch d d o S attacks on these 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:58.720 two sites, Mega Upload and pirates Bay, and UM shut 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:01.080 them down basically. And both of those are file sharing sites, 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:05.360 typically illegal file sharing sites. And so the US government 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:09.600 was using the same tactics d d o S attacks 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:14.119 that they were also prosecuting the hackers and an Anonymous 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:17.320 for using. But they were using it with impunity, and 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:20.240 that really ticked Anonymous off. And we should also say 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:22.200 what a d d o S is, right, So Chuck, 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:26.640 it's basically it's taking when you contact a website. When 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:28.760 you go to a website, you're contacting its server to 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:31.920 request all the information on the page. If a bunch 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:34.720 of people do that at once, the server becomes overloaded 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:36.840 and the people who legitimately want to use the site 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:39.520 can't get in, or the server becomes so overloaded the 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:42.960 site crashes down right. So one of anonymous is key 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:45.840 tactics is to do a distributed anallyis service where a 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:48.359 bunch of people are doing that all at once, hitting 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:51.200 the site to overload it. And then there's even software 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:54.919 called the low orbit Ion Cannon which anybody can go 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:57.000 download and use and you type in a U r 0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:00.520 L and this thing like really hits a site like 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:02.520 it's like a bunch of people all at once hitting 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:05.640 it with just this one computer. Um, we should say 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:08.919 that you can be prosecuted, and many people have been 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:12.160 prosecuted in says, to jail just for using that. Yeah, 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:14.640 not unless you're the U. S. Government. Again, but that's 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:17.199 what set off Operation Payback was that the government was 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:20.640 using these the same tactic that they were prosecuting other 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:25.240 people for. Yeah, and uh, because they didn't want any confusion, um, 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:28.560 and for people to say, oh, yeah, well they clearly 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:30.960 just want to download movies for free and stuff like that. 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:33.640 They have their YouTube video where they're like, no, that's 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:35.600 not why we're doing this, right, We're doing that because 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:38.199 you guys are using the same taxics tactics that you're 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:41.359 prosecuting us for for other people for exactly, and so 0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:44.080 Operation Payback. Then at about that time they found out 0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:48.639 about the Wiki League stop payment from UM PayPal and 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:52.760 MasterCard and Visa, and they extended it even further. PayPal 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:55.520 said it costs them five and a half million bucks. Yeah, 0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:58.040 which is a small dent and PayPal, but still it's 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:01.480 you know, no, it is substantial. The idea though. UM. 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:06.320 There's this really great UH documentary that's that's available for 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:11.919 free on Anonymous official YouTube channel. I haven't seen that 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:15.320 when this one's called the Story of Anonymous UM and 0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:18.640 it's it's pretty good. It's very straightforward, and it's got 0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:21.119 a lot of the people who were involved in the 0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:23.560 early days UM. And I think he goes up to 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:26.800 like two thousand eleven or twelve UM, but it's definitely 0:22:26.800 --> 0:22:30.320 worth watching. But it interviews this kid who downloaded the 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:35.399 low orbit ion cannon and engaged in UM project channelogy 0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:38.840 against scientology, right, and the FBI came to his door 0:22:38.960 --> 0:22:41.679 and arrested him, and he got like he's he I 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:44.520 think he got like time served, so he didn't actually 0:22:44.520 --> 0:22:48.520 have to serve prison time, but he was um like 0:22:48.600 --> 0:22:50.920 he wasn't allowed near a computer for twelve months or 0:22:50.960 --> 0:22:54.480 else he would be arrested. Um And it was really 0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:59.640 bizarre punishment considering that he was just requesting the Church 0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:03.440 of Science Atology's website for its information to it to 0:23:03.560 --> 0:23:06.360 the nth degree. But that was it. He didn't make 0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:09.320 any threats, he didn't order any pizzas, he didn't do anything. 0:23:09.840 --> 0:23:12.880 And when you when you think of the other term 0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:16.600 for d d O S attacks, they're called virtual sit ins. 0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:18.800