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Speaker 1: tech stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello everyone,
Speaker 1: and welcome to tech stuff. My name is Chris Poulette
Speaker 1: and I am an editor at how stuff works dot com.
Speaker 1: Sitting across from me as usual, a senior writer, Jonathan
Speaker 1: st Hey there, Yeah, today we're today we're gonna talk
Speaker 1: about women in tech. Yeah, we wanted to really kind
Speaker 1: of focus on this because it's an it's a topic
Speaker 1: that I think bears a lot of discussion, and part
Speaker 1: of that is just due to the fact that there
Speaker 1: there are fewer by percentage women in technology roles than
Speaker 1: there are men. And there are a lot of different
Speaker 1: reasons for that. I think one of the big ones
Speaker 1: is there's a there's a social pressure that it is
Speaker 1: not necessarily even a conscious one that tends to guide
Speaker 1: women away from those jobs or men towards those jobs.
Speaker 1: And it's not, you know, it's it has nothing to
Speaker 1: do with a person's ability to hold that job, certainly
Speaker 1: not no matter what their gender is. It's just that
Speaker 1: that's sort of it's almost like the social roles that
Speaker 1: we have set out, and it's slowly breaking down where
Speaker 1: you're seeing a lot of cross pollination across genders in
Speaker 1: both sorts of what nothing. Cross pollination is what you're
Speaker 1: laughing at. I'm talking about jobs here, buddy, jobs. Um,
Speaker 1: but no, you're saying, Okay, So you're seeing a lot
Speaker 1: of people working in roles that perhaps were originally thought
Speaker 1: of as being gender specific or at least dominated by
Speaker 1: a particular gender. Um Now in the field of technology,
Speaker 1: that's still pretty much true for men. There was a
Speaker 1: several articles about how many women hold jobs in in
Speaker 1: the field of technology UH compared to men, And most
Speaker 1: surveys put in that about of all jobs in the
Speaker 1: US anyway revolving around technology, so just one quarter of
Speaker 1: jobs UM, and that if you're looking at the executive level,
Speaker 1: the numbers are even lower. The there's a British tech
Speaker 1: recruitment group called Harvey Nash and their US division held
Speaker 1: a survey and discovered that nine percent of United States
Speaker 1: chief information officers are female so or male UH, and
Speaker 1: that that's actually a smaller percentage than previous year surveys
Speaker 1: had revealed. Back in UH two thousand eleven it was
Speaker 1: eleven percent, and then two thousand and ten it was
Speaker 1: twelve percent. So from twelve to eleven, then from eleven
Speaker 1: to nine, the number appears to be dropping, or at
Speaker 1: least the percentage is dropping. Keep in mind that you know,
Speaker 1: from one year to the next, the number of companies
Speaker 1: could increase, but the number of of women in executive
Speaker 1: roles hasn't increased, and so that way the percentage goes down. Right,
Speaker 1: It's not just necessarily that women are getting out of
Speaker 1: these positions. It may be that there are more positions,
Speaker 1: but same number of women. Um, and that of the
Speaker 1: four this was this was what was really troubling. Of
Speaker 1: the fifty American tech executives polled in the survey said
Speaker 1: they're I T groups have no women at all in
Speaker 1: management positions. And when they were asking the same groups,
Speaker 1: do you feel that women are underrepresented in your department?
Speaker 1: Half of those people said no. So so you've got
Speaker 1: this this of these executives saying there are no women
Speaker 1: in our department. Out of that thirty percent and half
Speaker 1: of those are saying women are not underrepresented, which is
Speaker 1: that's a fairly telling philosophical and social outlook. I think,
Speaker 1: you know, it essentially is saying that these people are saying,
Speaker 1: These men are saying, uh, no, women don't really belong here.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's an a nicer way of saying that,
Speaker 1: but that's effectively what they are saying. Yeah. Well, and
Speaker 1: and of course there could be people who are just uh,
Speaker 1: there could be people in that group who are looking
Speaker 1: around and going, well, of my department is made up
Speaker 1: of women, or you know, or something that seems reasonable
Speaker 1: to them. So you know that that that number might
Speaker 1: be part of it, but probably not all of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're probably quite a few, and yeah, you know what,
Speaker 1: I really don't care who's here, right, And you know,
Speaker 1: ultimately the nice thing would be for us to not
Speaker 1: care who is there as long as they are the
Speaker 1: right person for the job, male or female. Um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: that's so those statistics are a little troubling. But despite
Speaker 1: those statistics, there are plenty of women we can talk
Speaker 1: about who have really, uh made a name for themselves
Speaker 1: in the field of technology and pushed technology forward. Yeah. Actually,
Speaker 1: one of the reasons I wanted to talk about this
Speaker 1: on our podcast was we started talking about Yahoo because
Speaker 1: of a lot of the big changes that have been
Speaker 1: going on over there, and we we did touch on that, um,
Speaker 1: and it was it was the person who has taken
Speaker 1: over the helm over there, Marissa Meyer, who I consider
Speaker 1: one of the you know, really noticeable women in leadership
Speaker 1: positions in technology. And I thought, well, you know, there
Speaker 1: are so many others and we we really haven't done
Speaker 1: a podcast on on them as a group. And many
Speaker 1: of the people, as Jonathan was pointing out to me,
Speaker 1: just in personnel or before we started the podcast, Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, many of these people we could talk about
Speaker 1: uh in their own podcasts do a full episode on
Speaker 1: these women. So this is really kind of an overview,
Speaker 1: but don't don't take away thinking that this is all
Speaker 1: we have to say on the subject of these ladies
Speaker 1: as they are. They're interesting people, and they are holding
Speaker 1: some very important positions in technology, and they are making
Speaker 1: some decisions that are really reflected through technology technological industry
Speaker 1: as a whole, not just of their company. So there's
Speaker 1: definitely the opportunity for us to do future podcasts on
Speaker 1: many of these women. And I do have a secondary
Speaker 1: reason for wanting to do this, and it's it's a
Speaker 1: very personal reason. I have two daughters, both of whom
Speaker 1: uh seem to like technology. They're they're still fairly young,
Speaker 1: but you know, I'm thinking, well, it would be nice if, um,
Speaker 1: they saw a lot of these women that we're going
Speaker 1: to talk about today as role models. You know, maybe
Speaker 1: they don't necessarily want to get into programming or or
Speaker 1: into a technology position, but I want them to see
Speaker 1: that they can, uh, you know, and they're there are
Speaker 1: people who are really setting the bar very high as
Speaker 1: women in technology positions. So you know, personally, I would
Speaker 1: like to see them see this as an opportunity if
Speaker 1: it's something they're interested in later in life. There are
Speaker 1: many women on this list who achieved more by the
Speaker 1: time they were in their mid twenties than I have
Speaker 1: in my final year of my mid thirties. Nice. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, I got to hold onto that as long
Speaker 1: as I possibly can. This is it, this is it
Speaker 1: after you know, next year I'm in my late thirties.
Speaker 1: Well if if some of those people who said that
Speaker 1: they don't see um any discrepancy in the numbers for
Speaker 1: women in technology, I wonder if they know that the
Speaker 1: very first programmer computer programmer was a woman. We actually
Speaker 1: talked about her time ago. Yes, a Lovelace. Yes, we
Speaker 1: had an entire podcast on her as well as I
Speaker 1: think stuff you missed in history class did an episode
Speaker 1: on her. Two fascinating historical figure and an incredibly smart
Speaker 1: woman and uh, incredibly smart human being. I mean that's
Speaker 1: really just a woman. Just sounds like I'm adding a
Speaker 1: qualifier on her, and that's totally not what I mean.
Speaker 1: She was wicked smart. Yeah. Well, I mean, when you're
Speaker 1: writing software for a computer that doesn't actually physically exist, yeah,
Speaker 1: is pretty impressive. Yeah yeah, and it would have worked. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's kind of crazy. So yeah, these are all amazing
Speaker 1: people that we're gonna be talking about, And now I
Speaker 1: think we should probably start with Marissa Meyer. Even though
Speaker 1: we covered her in the Yahoo podcast, I think it's
Speaker 1: good to remind people who she is and what she's
Speaker 1: accomplished already. And she's one of the things she's accomplished
Speaker 1: that she became the youngest CEO of a fortune company
Speaker 1: once she took over the reins over at Yahoo YEA,
Speaker 1: and she she took over at Will not exactly directly,
Speaker 1: but the Yahoo had had a female CEO UH shortly,
Speaker 1: only maybe months before that, so Carol Carol Bartz, who
Speaker 1: built Autodesk into a very very strong company to um
Speaker 1: and UM. Meyer came from Stanford University where she graduated.
Speaker 1: She had a degree in symbolic systems and a master's
Speaker 1: in computer science, UH, specializing in artificial intelligence. And she
Speaker 1: really made a name for herself over at Goal. You know,
Speaker 1: she became the twentieth employee at Google. She was the
Speaker 1: first female engineer at Google, not the first female employee,
Speaker 1: but the first female engineer, and she ended up heading
Speaker 1: up various parts of their search departments. And UH was
Speaker 1: really well known for doing an excellent job over there.
Speaker 1: Before she ended up leaving Google to become the CEO
Speaker 1: of Yahoo. And it was kind of a remarkable thing,
Speaker 1: really because people who had been very pessimistic about Yahoo's
Speaker 1: chances sort of changed their tune or at least switched
Speaker 1: over to cautious optimism when Meyer came over, because I
Speaker 1: think that she sort of projects this this aura of uh,
Speaker 1: you know, she's got determination, she's got technical skill, She's
Speaker 1: known as a very good public speaker, although there are
Speaker 1: some reports saying that she can be challenging to work with,
Speaker 1: depending upon whom you ask. So there's there's some optimism
Speaker 1: that was not really there for Yahoo among certain people.
Speaker 1: There are plenty of others who are still like, you know,
Speaker 1: Yahoo is is such a mess that it's going to
Speaker 1: take more than just a change in leadership to really
Speaker 1: turn things around. And really, time is the only thing
Speaker 1: that's going to tell us who's right in that case. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Yahoo has been suffering, at least as far as pundits
Speaker 1: are concerned with a UM A lack of compelling product recently.
Speaker 1: I would say, um, based on on what I've read, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, they've they've built themselves into a content powerhouse.
Speaker 1: UM really bring them sort of reinforcing their image as
Speaker 1: a portal as an Internet destination when you're looking for information.
Speaker 1: Um And, uh, you know, as far as as technical
Speaker 1: products have UH been concerned, I would say that that
Speaker 1: Yahoo is sort of uh dated itself and that way
Speaker 1: because a while ago, you know, they were known for
Speaker 1: for their web mail program, for their for their chat.
Speaker 1: But those those things were, you know, long ago. They're
Speaker 1: very very commonplace. Now they haven't done a lot of
Speaker 1: innovation in that sphere. And um and Meyer has led
Speaker 1: Google to launch several products, some of which are admittedly
Speaker 1: no longer with us. But um, you know, she's known
Speaker 1: as someone who can who has the technical background, as
Speaker 1: you said, and can lead in that regard. And I
Speaker 1: think that's that has a lot to do with what
Speaker 1: they feel about Yahoo's rejuvenation. Um And let's let's face it,
Speaker 1: not all of Yahoo's recent uh C e O s
Speaker 1: have been media friendly over the past while. So I
Speaker 1: think she adds she adds that multidimensional up Um, as
Speaker 1: you were saying, sticking with early employees of Google, Yes,
Speaker 1: there's also Susan Wajiski. Yes, and Wajiski is the senior
Speaker 1: vice president of Advertising at Google. Now, folks, that's how
Speaker 1: Google makes the majority of its money, and we're talking
Speaker 1: billions of dollars. It's all in ads. And so Susan
Speaker 1: heads up this, this entire department that is all about,
Speaker 1: you know, generating revenue through advertising. Being a senior vice
Speaker 1: president and that's that's a huge job. And she she
Speaker 1: was the sixteenth employee or sixteenth person hired by Google now.
Speaker 1: Wiki also holds another interesting um title or I guess
Speaker 1: you can't really call it. I guess garage owner isn't
Speaker 1: such a title, huh, but no, wiski is. She's the
Speaker 1: person who owned the garage that Larry Page and Serge
Speaker 1: Brend rented when they first had Google as just a
Speaker 1: couple of computers running their algorithms. So she gave them
Speaker 1: the physical space they needed to house the earliest version
Speaker 1: of Google. So um, without her, Google would have been
Speaker 1: homeless or at least garage less. Yeah. Her, her mom
Speaker 1: esther is an educator, and uh, I actually have been
Speaker 1: sort of following. She's a She's very active in social
Speaker 1: media circles and and posts a lot. And I actually
Speaker 1: sort of came across her through Uh. Susan's sister Anne
Speaker 1: who was one of the founders of twenty three and Me,
Speaker 1: the genetics organization that has popularized uh spitting a cup
Speaker 1: and send it to us and will tell you about
Speaker 1: your genome. Yeah, we'll tell you know, where you descend
Speaker 1: from and whether you have certain genetic markers or not. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's which I which I think is absolutely fascinating stuff.
Speaker 1: So it's obvious that, uh, the women in that family
Speaker 1: are very interested in science and technology. Um. Also interesting
Speaker 1: is that that and uh it's also married to Sara
Speaker 1: gay Brand. Yeah. So there there's a tight Google connection
Speaker 1: there is, which actually explains why when I was reading
Speaker 1: first reading about twenty three and Me, it was because
Speaker 1: they were interested in you know, he was going, I
Speaker 1: want to know more about my geno. So it's a
Speaker 1: very very tight just that connection to that family and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, just the whole curiosity idea there. So who
Speaker 1: who did you want to talk about next? Well, um,
Speaker 1: let's see, there's a there's a CEO of a president
Speaker 1: CEO of a certain company called HP. Oh, yes, Meg Whitman. Uh.
Speaker 1: Now she has led more than one mega mega size
Speaker 1: tech organization. Yeah. Now she's got a really tough job ahead.
Speaker 1: Of her too, just like Marissa Meyer in that HP
Speaker 1: has had a rough couple of of quarters, really rough
Speaker 1: couple of years through some tough acquisitions that didn't work out.
Speaker 1: I mean Palm being a great example where HP acquired
Speaker 1: Palm and the web Os operating system and then it
Speaker 1: just sort of languished for a while, although there has
Speaker 1: been some recent news about web Os kind of coming
Speaker 1: alive again in a limited capacity. HP is spinning off
Speaker 1: another company that's going to be sent me Independent that
Speaker 1: the web Os will live under. But yes, um, uh,
Speaker 1: she's leading that company. I mean that's a and I
Speaker 1: mean that's one of the big historic companies in technology
Speaker 1: in the United States. M of course we've done an
Speaker 1: episode about it. So yeah, now now she uh, she
Speaker 1: is more of a business person, uh and didn't really
Speaker 1: start in tech. She she has a degree from from
Speaker 1: Princeton You Adversity and an NBA from Harvard Business School. Um.
Speaker 1: And she actually had been working at Procter and Gamble, which,
Speaker 1: if you're not familiar, is a a company that makes
Speaker 1: all kinds of products for the home. That's probably what
Speaker 1: they're best known for, detergent, soaps, um and other kinds
Speaker 1: of and they make tons and tons of different kinds
Speaker 1: of products and they're sold all over the world. She did, however,
Speaker 1: work with that. That that was where she had an
Speaker 1: opportunity to work with someone very famous in tech. And
Speaker 1: do you know about this, the uh somebody else who
Speaker 1: worked at Procter and Gamble before he ran off in
Speaker 1: eight three different detergent brands future Microsoft CEO Steve Balmer,
Speaker 1: which may explain why he was foaming at the mouth.
Speaker 1: But we pick on Steve, but we like Steve anyhow. Yeah, uh,
Speaker 1: Meg Whitman was working at at Procter and Gamble and
Speaker 1: then spent ten years at at eBay, which is how
Speaker 1: I came to know who she was, um and and
Speaker 1: she led it for a long time and uh you know,
Speaker 1: then she got she sort of nurtured a political ambition.
Speaker 1: She uh um decided to uh um run for governor
Speaker 1: of California, which is a small state on the West
Speaker 1: coast of the United States. Yeah, it's um uh. It's
Speaker 1: separated by a northern part that uh is very different
Speaker 1: from the southern part. And boy will they tell you
Speaker 1: about it. Um. But then yeah, after you know, she
Speaker 1: did not get elected, but that did make her available
Speaker 1: to run Hewlett Packard when that job became available. So
Speaker 1: she certainly knows technology and she knows business, so she
Speaker 1: came in to replace Leo uh Appetaker. Yeah. I I
Speaker 1: never can pronounce his name. I've heard his name pronounced
Speaker 1: about a hundred times, and I don't think it was
Speaker 1: pronounced the same way twice Leo A yeah, yes, apothecar.
Speaker 1: If you want to be just terrible about it, Um,
Speaker 1: that's way it looks. Yeah, that's the way. That's the
Speaker 1: way it's spelled. But I believe epic taker is the
Speaker 1: one I've heard the most frequently, so he uh. He
Speaker 1: was the person who was in charge through many of
Speaker 1: the somewhat rocky decisions HP acted upon UH in its
Speaker 1: recent past. But when Whitman took over, she said, this
Speaker 1: is not an indication or an implication that we are
Speaker 1: going to change strategy mid stride. It's a change in leadership,
Speaker 1: but not necessarily of approach. So and that takes a
Speaker 1: lot of guts to do too. I mean it's because
Speaker 1: you know, you've got shareholders to answer for. They say,
Speaker 1: what are you going to do about these decisions? And
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes the answer isn't to just reverse everything
Speaker 1: you're doing, because I can cause even more damage, even
Speaker 1: though that might not make shareholders happy. So, like we said,
Speaker 1: you know, UH Whitman has a really really tough job.
Speaker 1: You know, when you're when you're running a business that
Speaker 1: has as many complexities as HP. How many episodes do
Speaker 1: we do on HP? It was at least two, might
Speaker 1: have been three. Um, you have to I think when
Speaker 1: you're you're being charged with turning the company around, I
Speaker 1: think you have to take your time just simply because uh,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of momentum you've built up behind you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you know, she's she's taking her time and going
Speaker 1: piece by piece, and I think that's why people seem
Speaker 1: to feel somewhat confident that that she has a good
Speaker 1: chance of helping out now. Of course, she wasn't the
Speaker 1: only UH woman to lead HP in the past, UH
Speaker 1: Carl Fierina. Actually she she dropped out of law school
Speaker 1: and then joined A T and T um and and
Speaker 1: and she led uh HP for for quite some time too. Um.
Speaker 1: But it's funny because she she started as a sales
Speaker 1: representative at a T and T when she was twenty
Speaker 1: five years old, and UH basically moved on up I
Speaker 1: mean she she was noticed because she knew she seemed
Speaker 1: to know what she was doing. Um, and got generally
Speaker 1: promoted up through the ranks at A T and T
Speaker 1: and at Lucent, which um you know is the technology arm,
Speaker 1: got spun off um over there, and then join HP
Speaker 1: in UM. She was the first woman to start at
Speaker 1: a for fortune company as as the CEO as a
Speaker 1: matter of fact, um and was also a board member
Speaker 1: of Kellogg and Merken company. UM. So she you know,
Speaker 1: had her had a diverse background, not just in technology, um,
Speaker 1: but you know, they she's she's definitely somebody of note
Speaker 1: in tech. Well, speaking of someone else who's of note intech,
Speaker 1: there's Virginia Romady. Oh yes, the first female president and
Speaker 1: CEO of Big Blue IBM how itself. Um, that's just
Speaker 1: a joke. How how even though even though the name
Speaker 1: how is in fact one letter off each from IBM,
Speaker 1: supposedly there's no connection. Uh. So she worked for General
Speaker 1: Motors before she came over to IBM, but is now
Speaker 1: leading that company, and she's credited with, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: at her time at IBM, she's credited with pushing IBM
Speaker 1: into the cloud computing business. And you know that was
Speaker 1: that was a pretty risky maneuver for a company that
Speaker 1: was very much entrenched in just enterprise solutions for companies,
Speaker 1: UM and designing stuff that other manufacturers can by, you know,
Speaker 1: going into the cloud computing business back before it became
Speaker 1: essentially a household term, at least if you're living in
Speaker 1: a geeky household, it was. You know, it was a
Speaker 1: pretty big move. And she was also instrumental in maneuvering
Speaker 1: IBMS Watson, which is the Jeopardy playing computer, into other
Speaker 1: uses like she helped push to have Watson developed for
Speaker 1: things like the medical field, which that was the intention
Speaker 1: from the beginning for Watson, but she helped create those
Speaker 1: those relationships and leverage that so that what it was
Speaker 1: designed for and what it does is the same thing
Speaker 1: that doesn't always happen. And technology, you'll often see companies
Speaker 1: develop something with the with a with a very specific purpose,
Speaker 1: and yet because it's a technology company and that purpose
Speaker 1: may actually lie outside the realm of just whatever it
Speaker 1: is that company generally does, it never goes anywhere. And
Speaker 1: you have to be able to create these relationships and
Speaker 1: leverage them so that you can get this product where
Speaker 1: it needs to go. So it can do what it
Speaker 1: was signed to do and UH and from what I've read,
Speaker 1: she was very much instrumental in making that happen. UM.
Speaker 1: Also also of notice Ursula Burns, the chairman and CEO
Speaker 1: of Xerox. Yes, yes, another big big name and technology
Speaker 1: absolutely UM. Yeah. In in in addition to UH being notable
Speaker 1: for being a female CEO of a tech company, she
Speaker 1: is also the first African American woman to run a
Speaker 1: major public corporation in the United States. UM. And she
Speaker 1: had had a big job in front of her too,
Speaker 1: because of course, with computer technology changing the way we
Speaker 1: we all work. UM. Xerox, which that heavily on its
Speaker 1: duplication systems, UM had to compete with not only other people,
Speaker 1: but they had to compete with UH organizations that they
Speaker 1: didn't necessarily have to compete with in prior decades, So
Speaker 1: they had to do a lot of shifting and UM
Speaker 1: basically she's absolutely you know, she's got a lot of
Speaker 1: credit for leading Xerox UH to gradually shifting over to
Speaker 1: two new industries. From what I've read, UM, she she
Speaker 1: actually also is a part of the White House's program
Speaker 1: on STEM Education, which is a science, Technology, engineering, and
Speaker 1: mathematics um and as part of as the vice share
Speaker 1: of the President's Export Council as well. Um but yeah,
Speaker 1: she's a she's also has a hand in tech. She's
Speaker 1: not just a business person, she um um is into
Speaker 1: the technology side as well, and then she worked her
Speaker 1: way up to the top. Yeah, and you know, Xerox
Speaker 1: has a long history of innovation as well. Yes, so
Speaker 1: we for those of us who have only been alive
Speaker 1: for the last couple of decades, you may not realize
Speaker 1: that Xerox goes far beyond the copy machine, right because
Speaker 1: zero that that's what we think of. I'd i'd argue
Speaker 1: that's what most people think of when they hear Xerox.
Speaker 1: In fact, it's it's one of those terms that's become
Speaker 1: so universal that's become a generic term for a copy machine,
Speaker 1: a Xerox machine, to the company's chagrin. Right, just like
Speaker 1: you know, clean ex, band aids, Jello, etcetera. These are
Speaker 1: all companies that have had products that become so well
Speaker 1: known that they became the generic term for that whatever
Speaker 1: it was. There's a whole list out there, Google it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there you go, there's a good one. Um So anyway, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Xerox was has has always been a company that's really
Speaker 1: been known for innovation. I mean, thanks to Xerox, we
Speaker 1: have things like graphical user interfaces and the computer mouse.
Speaker 1: These came out of the research and development departments within Xerox.
Speaker 1: So it's a company that already has a history with innovation.
Speaker 1: It's good to see a new focus on that as well.
Speaker 1: And that innovation may come in the form of technology,
Speaker 1: or it may come in the form of they're innovative
Speaker 1: in that they're getting into fields that they haven't done before.
Speaker 1: The important thing is to really embrace that. And she can't.
Speaker 1: Like I said, she came up through the ranks too,
Speaker 1: so she's not somebody that they brought in to handle
Speaker 1: this job. She earned it. Yeah, inside well, not that
Speaker 1: that isn't earning it, but she earned it working her
Speaker 1: way up through the company, which I yeah, I I.
Speaker 1: You know, there's not to take away from anyone who
Speaker 1: makes their way in in whatever business and then comes
Speaker 1: over to become a leader of something else. I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously that in itself is a really tough thing to
Speaker 1: do and it takes a very special person to do that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, fearinga over at a T and T and
Speaker 1: Lusen and then coming over to HP. That don't mean
Speaker 1: to disparage that at all, but to rise up from
Speaker 1: the ranks. Yeah. No, that's a great story because it
Speaker 1: not only means that they have the ability to lead,
Speaker 1: but that they actually have that history with the company
Speaker 1: and that you get a feeling that that's someone who
Speaker 1: the philosophy of the company, of the mission statement of
Speaker 1: the company is more than just words on paper. It's
Speaker 1: someone who has really believed in that. Because trust me,
Speaker 1: I mean, when you're looking at people who are leading
Speaker 1: a company, you have to realize these are people who
Speaker 1: have had opportunities to leave and go somewhere else and
Speaker 1: do something big, but they chose to stay with that company.
Speaker 1: That's a huge statement too. Yeah, she's she's definitely a
Speaker 1: fascinating uh person, And I'm somebody I don't think you
Speaker 1: don't hear her name like you do some of the
Speaker 1: other leaders of corporations out there, so I wanted to
Speaker 1: make sure we talked about her. There's the co founder
Speaker 1: of HTC ah Yeah, share Wong and Uh there's somebody
Speaker 1: else who you don't hear. Yeah, you don't hear her
Speaker 1: name very very frequently. And she's an extremely wealthy woman,
Speaker 1: but she was one of the co founders for HTC
Speaker 1: and HTC recently, HTC has been having a pretty rough
Speaker 1: time in the United States in particular, But for a
Speaker 1: while HTC was really an up and coming, like they
Speaker 1: seemed to come out nowhere, right. I had never even
Speaker 1: heard of HTC before the first Android phone in the
Speaker 1: United States, the g one. When when there was the
Speaker 1: HTCG one. When that launched, I I thought, h t S,
Speaker 1: I don't know who this is. And I looked into
Speaker 1: it and said, well, you know they've got you know this,
Speaker 1: they designed mobile hardware. It's I'll give it a try.
Speaker 1: And then I was really taken with the form factor
Speaker 1: and I very much enjoyed that phone, and in fact,
Speaker 1: I currently use an HTC phone as my phone. UM so, yeah,
Speaker 1: they went from a name that in the United States
Speaker 1: had next to no recognition to becoming a dominant player
Speaker 1: in the smartphone space, uh, very very quickly. Now recently
Speaker 1: that that landscape has changed somewhat, I would argue that
Speaker 1: the dominant players in the smartphone space right now are
Speaker 1: well Apple, because Apple has been since the instruction of
Speaker 1: the iPhone. In fact, one could argue that Apple is
Speaker 1: the company. In fact, I don't even think you have
Speaker 1: to argue with Apple is the company that made smartphones
Speaker 1: a popular choice for consumers in the United States. You know,
Speaker 1: professionals had been using them for a while, but they
Speaker 1: hadn't really made a a break in the consumer market
Speaker 1: until the iPhone. But HTC was then a pretty heavy competitor. Recently,
Speaker 1: I'd say that Apple and Samsung are probably the two
Speaker 1: dominant players in that space in the United States. But
Speaker 1: HTC is still producing lots of different handsets and for
Speaker 1: many different UM carriers, so you can find it across
Speaker 1: different carriers. It's not like it's a specific one. And
Speaker 1: I know you You also wanted to mention Saffra Cats. Yes,
Speaker 1: who is the president of Oracle Um She uh she
Speaker 1: has a uh A law degree from the University of
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania UM and uh A b A and BS from
Speaker 1: University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School, which is a prestigious business school. Um.
Speaker 1: Yeah she she actually um had been CFO of the
Speaker 1: company from two thousand five to two thousand eight UM
Speaker 1: and then had you know, chief financial office. Yes, that's good,
Speaker 1: thank you. I'm usually the one who does that, but
Speaker 1: you know, this is This is another name that may
Speaker 1: not be familiar to our listeners, but she had been
Speaker 1: at the company for quite some time and uh it
Speaker 1: was you know, definitely actually since and had been very
Speaker 1: instrumental in the company's success. Now. Oracle is another is
Speaker 1: one of those tech companies too that it powers a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff, but the average person on the street
Speaker 1: may not necessarily know who. We're gonna have to do
Speaker 1: an episode on Oracle at some point. Well, then there's
Speaker 1: Larry Ellison. Yeah, I need to do an episode on
Speaker 1: an Oracle, need to do an episode on Cisco. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's some big companies that are really important in technology
Speaker 1: that you know, anyone who works in tech, they know
Speaker 1: the name yea. But for the rest of us who
Speaker 1: might be interested in technology, but we don't live in
Speaker 1: that world necessarily. These names are the ones we've heard,
Speaker 1: but we don't really have a Like they do something
Speaker 1: with computers, like that's that's what it Our knowledge tends
Speaker 1: to boil down to. So we'll have to do episodes
Speaker 1: that focus on these companies. Um. Yeah, So actually that's
Speaker 1: a good point because I I didn't collect a lot
Speaker 1: of notation on Sandy Lerner from Cisco but she was
Speaker 1: one of the founders of Cisco. Um. That's funny. There's
Speaker 1: always somebody else that I want to do these that
Speaker 1: I go, oh, yeah, I will say I will say
Speaker 1: something about someone who works at Cisco, a woman who
Speaker 1: holds a leadership position there. Oh, Kathy O'Connell. Yes, us
Speaker 1: the communications director at Cisco. So it's her job to
Speaker 1: be able to communicate with the public about what Cisco does.
Speaker 1: You know, why it's important, the developments that the company
Speaker 1: is making, and be able to explain the technology in
Speaker 1: a way that the lay person can understand. And I
Speaker 1: had the pleasure of being on a panel with Kathy
Speaker 1: O'Connell at an event called the Engage Dig Day this year.
Speaker 1: It was earlier this year that this year being two
Speaker 1: thousand and twelve. For those of you who are listening
Speaker 1: in the future, Hi, do we have jet packs yet? Anyway,
Speaker 1: Cathy o'con and I appeared on a panel about the
Speaker 1: Internet of Things, which we've done an episode on. But yeah,
Speaker 1: that concept of Internet connections that go beyond a mobile
Speaker 1: device or a laptop when you're at a hot spot
Speaker 1: or whatever. It's it's where the Internet has incorporated lots
Speaker 1: of different data gathered from sensors could be in anything
Speaker 1: from a security camera to your refrigerator, to your television
Speaker 1: to whatever. And uh So we had this discussion and
Speaker 1: it was absolutely fascinating and it was a real pleasure
Speaker 1: meeting her and hearing her perspectives on what the future
Speaker 1: holds as far as the Internet of Things is concerned.
Speaker 1: Um So, I wanted to mention her since you had
Speaker 1: since we both talked about Cisco there briefly, it was
Speaker 1: just a personal connection. The other women that are on
Speaker 1: this list I have never uh personally met. I admire them,
Speaker 1: but I've never met them. Um Oh, there's someone I
Speaker 1: wanted to mention, Elizabeth Barron. I don't know. Did you
Speaker 1: run across this name? Yeah. So she's a technical specialist
Speaker 1: who works for the Ford Motor Company and her specialty
Speaker 1: is virtual reality. So, um I was reading about her
Speaker 1: and the thing that was interesting was, well, a couple
Speaker 1: of different things were interesting. First of all, she gave
Speaker 1: her background about how she got interested in the whole
Speaker 1: virtual reality field in the first place. Uh And I
Speaker 1: can actually quote here she says, basically, I am a
Speaker 1: geek by nature. When I was young, I love gizmos,
Speaker 1: photography and science. I was fascinated by the physics of light,
Speaker 1: color and optical properties. I learned the art and science
Speaker 1: of developing and printing photographs. I followed that calling and
Speaker 1: it led to an education and career in computer graphics.
Speaker 1: So here's someone who's looks at light and says, that's
Speaker 1: really cool. I want to know everything there is to know,
Speaker 1: which is I mean, curiosity is one of those traits
Speaker 1: that I find personally one of the that's one of
Speaker 1: my favorite traits in human Yeah, just the human experience
Speaker 1: is the desire to know and to discover, and she
Speaker 1: certainly embodies that. And she talked about how it was
Speaker 1: a real challenge to get a virtual reality department within
Speaker 1: the Ford Motor Company. When she got there, it was
Speaker 1: hard to convince people that this was a valuable asset
Speaker 1: to the company. And she managed to get a small
Speaker 1: amount of funding and it was, you know, just barely
Speaker 1: enough to get moving, but she kept pushing and she
Speaker 1: got it together, and she showed that this immersive virtual
Speaker 1: reality environment could be a very valuable tool when you're
Speaker 1: developing vehicles that you know, with a very sophisticated simulator model,
Speaker 1: you can really test stuff out before you ever get
Speaker 1: to the actual physical prototype stage where you're really committing
Speaker 1: lots of money to a project. So if you can
Speaker 1: test it in a virtual environment, then you say, you know,
Speaker 1: this design is great, except that according to this virtual model,
Speaker 1: there's a killer blind spot that I just can't fix here,
Speaker 1: I mean the physical If we if we represent, you know,
Speaker 1: create a physical model based upon this, uh, that's gonna
Speaker 1: be a serious problem. So maybe we should rethink that
Speaker 1: now before we ever build anything, before it really becomes
Speaker 1: a killer problem. I I feel like our discussion would
Speaker 1: be remiss if we didn't mention Cheryl Sandberg, the CEO
Speaker 1: of Facebook chief operating officer. Uh. She that's again not
Speaker 1: her only tech uh job. She wasn't had a minor
Speaker 1: role as vice president of Global Online Sales and Operations
Speaker 1: at Google. She may have heard of that company. She's
Speaker 1: also she was also the chief of staff to the
Speaker 1: United States Secretary of the Treasury back in uh from
Speaker 1: ninety six to two thousand one, where she was just
Speaker 1: trying to solve tiny little problems like um forgiving debt
Speaker 1: in the developing world. Well you know, she's tiny, tiny issue.
Speaker 1: Well then there you know her credentials, you know, or
Speaker 1: it's just a master's degree in Business Administration and MBA
Speaker 1: with highest distinction from Harvard Business School and suma koum laude.
Speaker 1: That's Latin for you can't get any higher than this
Speaker 1: degree in economics from Harvard. So she seems reasonably qualified.
Speaker 1: I think reasonably qualified is an appropriate explanation of her abilities. Yeah. Actually,
Speaker 1: though she's a she's another one of those people that,
Speaker 1: even though she's not the CEO of the company, she
Speaker 1: has She's also been sort of a standout in the media. Um,
Speaker 1: she has spoken for for Facebook on several occasions. She's
Speaker 1: somebody where they know whose whose face I have seen
Speaker 1: in the news and um, you know, they do employ
Speaker 1: her as a spokesperson from time to time. Uh that
Speaker 1: would follow as her role as chief operating officer. But
Speaker 1: they obviously feel qualified that she's qualified to be a
Speaker 1: leader and uh as a spokesperson for the company. And
Speaker 1: someone else who is uh fascinating person involved with technology.
Speaker 1: She didn't make her name and engineering but Melinda Gates
Speaker 1: to who met some guy at the company she worked
Speaker 1: for and decided to marry him Billy. Yeah, but she
Speaker 1: has has been involved with product development at Microsoft. UM
Speaker 1: and uh she uh she married Bill Gates and in
Speaker 1: ninety four and uh basically after that, um really known
Speaker 1: for philanthropic work, yes, and has really built the Bill
Speaker 1: and Melinda Gates Foundation into one of the world's leading
Speaker 1: philanthropic organizations. It's absolutely phenomenal, absolutely um. So uh you know,
Speaker 1: and she's just that she's an interesting lady too. Just
Speaker 1: doing a little reading about her, she's a really cool
Speaker 1: person to to get to know. Not that I know
Speaker 1: her personally, but from what from what I freaking what
Speaker 1: we can glean. Um. And I'd also like to mention
Speaker 1: another programmer for the Navy Rear, Admiral Grace Murray Hopper. Wow,
Speaker 1: I didn't come across this, oh you Uh. Born in
Speaker 1: nine six, she graduated from Vasser in got her PhD
Speaker 1: in math from Yale in ninety four. Um. She actually
Speaker 1: was a professor at Vasser for a while and joined
Speaker 1: the Naval Reserve, so she was a backup belly button. Uh.
Speaker 1: She was a lieutenant junior grade in in ninety four
Speaker 1: and and became uh part of the Bureau of Ordnance
Speaker 1: and uh started working on the electronic computer. I'm surprised
Speaker 1: you don't know Dr Hopper's name actually because she is
Speaker 1: the person who discovered the first computer bug. Literally they
Speaker 1: still have it. It was a moth caught in between
Speaker 1: relay number seventy panel F of the Mark two ake
Speaker 1: and relay calculator when they were testing it at Harvard
Speaker 1: on set number nine, and they actually found a bug,
Speaker 1: a moth in the machine removed it. As I recall,
Speaker 1: we actually talked about this. We did, we did, and
Speaker 1: uh they still they have a record of it being
Speaker 1: debugged with the moth taped to the paper and we
Speaker 1: still use that term today. Yes, it was at the
Speaker 1: Naval Surface Surface Warfare Center Computer Museum in Dahlgren, Virginia.
Speaker 1: You can actually see the first computer bug, which I
Speaker 1: imagine is a bit crunchy by this time. But um,
Speaker 1: absolutely one of the world's first practical programmers. I don't
Speaker 1: mean to take that away from Ada Lovelace, but uh,
Speaker 1: definitely involved in early early actual electronic computing. UM and
Speaker 1: a fascinating person on her on her own. UM. So yeah,
Speaker 1: she retired in UH in nineteen sixty six, but then
Speaker 1: went back into active duty. So she she finally retired
Speaker 1: UM from the Navy as a rear admiral and in
Speaker 1: five and was still active in industry and education according
Speaker 1: to her biography as of when she when she passed away.
Speaker 1: So really really cool person that most people, again have
Speaker 1: no idea who she is. But if you want to
Speaker 1: know who invented the computer bug, what was the bug itself,
Speaker 1: but she helped discover it. There's some women that I
Speaker 1: think we should mention because they specifically make it a
Speaker 1: priority to try and promote the tech technology industry to
Speaker 1: other women, and to to promote science education, you know
Speaker 1: that STEM education you were talking about earlier, really pushing
Speaker 1: that so that so that women who are interested in
Speaker 1: this don't feel like they're that like one, that they
Speaker 1: stand out, or that they're unusual. There's nothing unusual about it,
Speaker 1: or that there's, you know, anything weird about pursuing that
Speaker 1: they shouldn't feel weird about it, and that they should
Speaker 1: have every opportunity to pursue that because frankly, the world
Speaker 1: needs gifted people in these fields. That's what we need.
Speaker 1: So if there's someone who's interested in it, they should
Speaker 1: certainly pursue it. So there are a few women who
Speaker 1: have really gone out of their way to make organizations
Speaker 1: that are supportive of other women who are either seeking
Speaker 1: a job in the tech industry or who already have
Speaker 1: a job in the tech industry. UM. Carolyn Layton is
Speaker 1: one of those. She's a founder of the Women in
Speaker 1: Technology International organization and that coordinates events for women who
Speaker 1: are interested or employed within technology fields. UH. There's Alison
Speaker 1: Capin who is the founder of Women Who Tech, which
Speaker 1: is another organization. They hold events that have panels discussing
Speaker 1: various uh topics within the field of technology that specifically
Speaker 1: pertained to women, but also go beyond the whole gender
Speaker 1: question as well. So these are and there are plenty
Speaker 1: of other examples. Those are two that I specifically just
Speaker 1: pulled out from my list who have worked hard to
Speaker 1: try and promote technology as a viable pursuit for women
Speaker 1: who are interested in it. Yeah, I've I've seen uh
Speaker 1: more tech camps promoted and opportunities for kids actually of
Speaker 1: both genders. UM, but you know, specifically for girls to
Speaker 1: to to get involved in learning how to program uh,
Speaker 1: for people to um um get into making. As a
Speaker 1: matter of fact, I recommend checking out on YouTube super
Speaker 1: Awesome Sylvia's show. UM. She's a young lady who is
Speaker 1: into making her own electronics. Her dad is a I believe,
Speaker 1: a podcaster on his own tech podcaster. Um. And she
Speaker 1: has a show where she teaches, you know, she shows
Speaker 1: how to make to build different kits. Um. She will
Speaker 1: warn you that soldering can be dangerous, which is good um.
Speaker 1: And just I just love seeing kids who are interested
Speaker 1: in it, but especially, like I said, young women, probably
Speaker 1: because of my own uh, my own kids. UM. But
Speaker 1: I'm glad to see that, well you think about it, technology,
Speaker 1: electronic technology and computers is still even in its uh
Speaker 1: formed as we know it now, still a very young industry.
Speaker 1: So I'm I'm glad to see that there are more
Speaker 1: people encouraging kids to get involved, especially girls and young women.
Speaker 1: And uh, I'm sure that the disparity between the genders,
Speaker 1: you know, as years go on, is going to uh
Speaker 1: to even out more. I certainly hope so, uh you know,
Speaker 1: I I frankly sometimes I get a little worried about
Speaker 1: STEM education across the board here in the United States,
Speaker 1: not know, not just directed toward towards women, but you know,
Speaker 1: just just the state, just the state of STEM education
Speaker 1: in the United States at all. So I hope to
Speaker 1: see more kids interested in science and I think I
Speaker 1: actually do. And and part of it is because we
Speaker 1: have we live in a in an era of incredible
Speaker 1: scientific discovery, and I think that's helping encourage kids to
Speaker 1: look into it more, which means that we have to
Speaker 1: create the programs that support this because one, we're gonna
Speaker 1: need it in the future. And too, that's what the
Speaker 1: kids need, that's what they want. So and I say
Speaker 1: that as a liberal arts graduate, I'm a I'm an
Speaker 1: English major. What do you do with a BA in English?
Speaker 1: The digital humanities? Yes? So, uh, Like we said, this
Speaker 1: was just sort of an overview of some of the
Speaker 1: the amazing women who have really led the technological industry
Speaker 1: over the last several years. And there are so many more.
Speaker 1: We could do easily a two hour long podcast just
Speaker 1: talking about a handful of them. And as we said before,
Speaker 1: many of these women deserve an entire episode in their
Speaker 1: of their own just to really cover everything that they've
Speaker 1: done and the contributions they've made. Two women and to technology. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and this is keep in mind that this is not
Speaker 1: to to um to disparage anyone who uh is in
Speaker 1: programming or somebody you know, in in a different role
Speaker 1: in the tech industry. We we picked out people who
Speaker 1: have become notable, uh you know, noticeable really, I guess
Speaker 1: through their their roles as leaders in their or organizations.
Speaker 1: But there are women at many levels in all kinds
Speaker 1: of tech companies who should be lauded for, uh for
Speaker 1: what they do because they play an important role. So
Speaker 1: one of them, Yeah, exactly. My wife works in the
Speaker 1: technology field. She holds a very technical position at a
Speaker 1: very large company. And moreover than that, I think my
Speaker 1: wife needs to be lauded for the fact that she
Speaker 1: hasn't yet to strangle me. Yeah. I was going to
Speaker 1: mention that, but I'm glad you brought it up. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my coworkers feel like strangling me, and they spend a
Speaker 1: fraction of the amount of time that my wife has
Speaker 1: to spend with me, So that's saying something. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm glad we we touched on on some of these,
Speaker 1: and I think, uh, several of these people, as you
Speaker 1: said earlier, to might might be good subjects for future
Speaker 1: podcasts on some of the tech biographies that you're doing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we will probably revisit some of these in the future, certainly.
Speaker 1: So I would like to recommend to any of our
Speaker 1: listeners out there. If there's someone in particular you would
Speaker 1: like us to talk about in the future episode, let's know.
Speaker 1: Or if there's just some other specific topic that you
Speaker 1: are dying to hear about, let us know a send
Speaker 1: as an email or I just as tech stuff at
Speaker 1: discovery dot com, or drop us a line on Twitter
Speaker 1: or Facebook. Are handled. There is text stuff hs W
Speaker 1: and Chris and I will talk to you again really
Speaker 1: soon for more on this and thousands of other topics.
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