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Speaker 1: From Meat Eaters World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana.

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Speaker 2: This is Col's Week in Review with Ryan cow Kla.

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Speaker 1: Here's Cal, Hey, Cals, we can review. Fans. You are

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Speaker 1: about to hear an interview with Julie Lucas of Mining Minnesota.

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Speaker 1: Julie was a fantastic guest and as you'll hear, she

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Speaker 1: is the executive director the Face of Mining Minnesota as

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Speaker 1: in the Face of Mining in Minnesota, the Trade Association

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Speaker 1: for Mining as such. One of her clients is Twin Medals,

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Speaker 1: the extractive interest that intends to operate on the boundary

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Speaker 1: of the Boundary Waters Canoe Area, our most visited wilderness

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Speaker 1: in the lower forty eight. You know that we should

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Speaker 1: be hearing on whether or not the mineral withdrawal will

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Speaker 1: be canceled. Under the Biden administration. There is a twenty

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Speaker 1: year mineralm withdrawal moratorium put in place, which is now

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Speaker 1: being contested, and Secretary Rawlins has claimed that she's going

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Speaker 1: to reverse that decision. We get a lot of requests

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Speaker 1: to have representatives from the industry side of the aisle

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Speaker 1: on the show. I think Julie did a fantastic job.

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Speaker 1: As you listen, we do get to the heart of

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Speaker 1: the matter of whether or not Twin Metals gets to

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Speaker 1: develop this contested area in the Superior National Forest. And

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Speaker 1: I thought it would be worthwhile to bring it up front,

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Speaker 1: as it's a little subtle in the interview. This is

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Speaker 1: national forest as such, it is a land of many uses,

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Speaker 1: many interests get to have their say. The question at

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Speaker 1: the heart of this issue. Should this particular interest outweigh

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Speaker 1: all others, then you can consider all the other points,

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Speaker 1: some of which will be bringing up here too. I

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Speaker 1: can't wait to hear what you have to say on

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Speaker 1: this one. Please write in ask c A. L. That's

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Speaker 1: Ascal at the Meat Eater dot Com. All right, hey, everybody,

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Speaker 1: welcome to another episode of cal the Wild. We have

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Speaker 1: a special guest with us this week, Julie Lucas, who

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Speaker 1: is the executive director of Mining Minnesota. I think, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's right, and and uh. We have talked a

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Speaker 1: lot off and on about Boundary Waters Canoe Area and

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Speaker 1: the Twin Metals project and oh Chripes Pebble Mine, and

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Speaker 1: lots of other projects around the world and America and

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Speaker 1: old projects, new projects, and we always get the feedback

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Speaker 1: that says, hey, we should have someone more connected with

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Speaker 1: the industry and hear more from industry perspective versus what

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Speaker 1: we've had, which is typically like a user perspective, conservation

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Speaker 1: group and some administration state or or federal level. So

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Speaker 1: Julie has been in the news. Yeah, you're you're quoted

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Speaker 1: individual and mining Minnesota. From my take, I would I

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Speaker 1: would say it is a consulting group, trade association. Oh,

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Speaker 1: it is the trade association.

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Speaker 2: Okay, all things not iron, so copper, nickel, manganese, and

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Speaker 2: helium currently.

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Speaker 1: And that rolls perfectly into my first question that I

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Speaker 1: think everybody should enjoy non ferrous versus ferris.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so in Minnesota we've had iron mining for one

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Speaker 2: hundred and forty years now, and so the Iron Mining

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Speaker 2: Association is well established. Well, they have their a trade

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Speaker 2: association for the iron mines up here. So I live

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Speaker 2: on the iron range. We have six operating iron minds

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Speaker 2: and you'll hear them called taconite mines. It's just a

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Speaker 2: different term. But then we have newer into the world.

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Speaker 2: Is the non fairist. So I tease the Iron Mining

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Speaker 2: Association executive director, I'm like, it's Kristin and not Kristin,

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Speaker 2: Like I'm not Kristin. It's iron and everything else, and

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Speaker 2: then she just picks on me. But yeah, so our

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Speaker 2: state regulations are actually we have iron mining rules, then

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Speaker 2: we have have the non fairest mining rules, and then

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Speaker 2: we have peat mining rules, so we have so it

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Speaker 2: just becomes everything but iron.

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Speaker 1: Got it, got it. And you know, as I mean,

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Speaker 1: most recently in the in I shouldn't say most recently,

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Speaker 1: but uh, for the listeners of this show, what you've

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Speaker 1: gotten here most recently, the mining permit within the Superior

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Speaker 1: National Forest what had been put on a moratorium. And

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Speaker 1: we saw that the recision of that moratorium pop up

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Speaker 1: in the budgetary process for the Big Beautiful Bill, and

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Speaker 1: and then that was removed yep. And now we are

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Speaker 1: in a time where we hear that moratorium has been

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Speaker 1: rescinded again or.

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Speaker 3: Not the plan not yet they the Department of excuse me,

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Speaker 3: the Forest Service, Department of Agriculture, who oversees the Forest Service,

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Speaker 3: had indicated that they plan to remove the moratorium.

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Speaker 2: And that's where you know, like you folks out west,

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Speaker 2: you you work under different like we don't operate under

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Speaker 2: the eighteen seventy two mining law in Minnesota. We have

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Speaker 2: leases so that's kind of just one of the differences.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how much you folks have talked about

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Speaker 2: mining out west, but so in our case, yeah, we

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Speaker 2: need leases to.

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Speaker 4: Start environmental review, so you have to remove the moratorium.

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Speaker 2: Then they have to get the leases back. Then they'd

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Speaker 2: have to go through environmental review. Then they'd have to

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Speaker 2: go through permitting. And not just federal there's also State

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Speaker 2: of Minnesota also would do environmental review because we have MIPA,

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Speaker 2: the Minnesota Environmental Protection And then we have state permitting

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Speaker 2: because we have to have a permit to mine. So

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Speaker 2: there's multiple steps. But yes, the first thing is that moratorium.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a Secretary Rawlins statement.

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Speaker 2: I think that's what I saw too, yep.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And then as far as the leases, those leases

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Speaker 1: were turned over or do those leases still exist?

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Speaker 2: That I believe is in court right now, So that

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Speaker 2: one I can't speak to because I'm pretty sure that

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Speaker 2: one's still tied up in court. It gets incredibly complicated,

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Speaker 2: and timelines get incredibly complicated when you go back to

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Speaker 2: the Obama last Obama administration keeping track of all that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's there's a ping pong ball going back and

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Speaker 1: forth here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which is not really how we should do this

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Speaker 2: in our country.

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Speaker 1: But well, yeah, I'd love some more of that perspective.

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Speaker 1: But for what folks need to know is we have

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Speaker 1: from you know, sportsman, hunter, angler side of things, we've

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Speaker 1: been very interested in the Twin Metals project, specifically because

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Speaker 1: of its proximity to our most visited wilderness area in

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Speaker 1: the US.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's amazing.

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Speaker 1: And what kind of gets lost in that is that

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of existing mining activity in that in

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Speaker 1: that same general area, correct.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just upstream of that is an iron mind that's

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Speaker 2: currently existing. And we also just have on a stretch

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Speaker 2: almost one hundred miles long as the Iron Range with

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Speaker 2: like I said, the other mining operations not all in

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Speaker 2: that watershed because we where we live actually just twenty

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Speaker 2: minutes south of me as a three way watershed divide

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Speaker 2: where two continental divides actually come together. So we have

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Speaker 2: the Rainy River Watershed that's the one boundary waters is in.

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Speaker 2: But then we also have the Lake Spior Watershed and

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Speaker 2: we have the Upper Mississippi River Watershed and they all

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Speaker 2: come together at a little uh triple watershed right south

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Speaker 2: of me. So it's so within that watershed is one

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Speaker 2: iron mine and then the proposed Twin Metals and then

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Speaker 2: some exploration projects.

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Speaker 1: And that's that's like Bmigi area.

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Speaker 2: Right, Nope, I say that like there's anything wrong with Bmigia.

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Speaker 4: I'm like, no, where you can jump across the Yeah, Bamidge,

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Speaker 4: So I'm about So if you're familiar with where Ely is,

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Speaker 4: just at the end of the road on the way

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Speaker 4: to the Bundy Waters, which is the way you're going

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Speaker 4: to go next time you come visit us, then you

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Speaker 4: from Ely if you head an hour because it's a rural.

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Speaker 2: Area, right. We measure everything in time versus distance. I

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Speaker 2: couldn't even tell him any miles it is. So I

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Speaker 2: live about an hour and a half west of Ely,

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Speaker 2: and then two hours west of me is Bamidge. Sprawl

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Speaker 2: across the state?

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Speaker 1: Got it? But yeah, lots of water.

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Speaker 2: A land of ten thousand lakes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what we do a lot of a lot of

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Speaker 1: different directions. Uh when last time I was in Bimidgie. Right,

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Speaker 1: it's like you go jump across the Missouri Missippi.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's you can. There's like a little crossing

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Speaker 2: point where you can say you walked across the Mississippi

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Speaker 2: because it's still tiny.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love stuff like that. Yeah. So I

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Speaker 1: guess what makes the Twin Metals project uh different and

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Speaker 1: such a kind of political hot potato.

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of it's just the location. And

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Speaker 2: you know, when the boundary waters was formed back in

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Speaker 2: the day, you know, it was created where it's at,

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Speaker 2: and then just around it as a mineral withdrawal area

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Speaker 2: or not withdrawal excuse me, mineral area. So it's like

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Speaker 2: you have the boundary waters you can't mine in, but

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Speaker 2: then there's a boundary around it, a buffer that you

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Speaker 2: can't mine around it. And then Twin Metals is south

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Speaker 2: of there, but it is still within the water shed.

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Speaker 2: So it's about five miles as it crow flies, but

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Speaker 2: it's about in sixteen miles river miles. But it's a

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Speaker 2: mining project with an ore that has sulfide. Sulfide has

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Speaker 2: been known to cause acid rock drainage. And it's a

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Speaker 2: mind being proposed in the watershed of an extremely protected

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Speaker 2: for a reason region, and so people are scared, and

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Speaker 2: people have lots of questions and concerns, and so you

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Speaker 2: see it. I wish it wasn't political. It's mineral extraction.

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Speaker 2: We've made it political in our try. I'm trying desperately

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Speaker 2: to peel that back because we all use these metals

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Speaker 2: and we should all care about the environment. Like caring

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Speaker 2: about the environment should not be a political thing, but

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Speaker 2: mining that creates our world shouldn't be either, So trying

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Speaker 2: to fix that so that it's it's not tied up

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Speaker 2: because you know, in mining, environmental review takes many years.

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Speaker 2: You know, from the time you start baseline samplings, you

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Speaker 2: need to underground you understand groundwater, surface water. From the

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Speaker 2: time you start that to the time you'd ever actually

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Speaker 2: start a mine as a huge long window that lasts

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Speaker 2: beyond political administrations. So how do we not have this

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Speaker 2: ping pong effect? Is something I'm trying desperately to fix,

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Speaker 2: which is kind of comical because I'm a scientist, not

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Speaker 2: a political scientist. So here we are.

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Speaker 1: But you can talk to people, so you know that's.

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Speaker 2: I used to be a teacher. I think I always

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Speaker 2: just kick in to educator. I taught biology for six years.

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Speaker 2: I think I just always.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a talent. So and then you know, I

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Speaker 1: often so I'm a Montana kid, right, and when I

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Speaker 1: think of copper sulfide mining, I'm like butt America, big

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Speaker 1: huge open pit copper sulfide mine. Yep, it's full to

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Speaker 1: this day of uh some really nasty water. Geese land

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Speaker 1: in there and die every year. And I grew up

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Speaker 1: with urban myths, right of like oh yeah, if you

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Speaker 1: took this is the one that that sticks with me,

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Speaker 1: right is if you took a railroad tie and dumped

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Speaker 1: it in there, it would disintegrate before I hit the

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Speaker 1: bottom of the pit.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's fun.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's what I think of when I'm thinking of,

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Speaker 1: like of copper sulfide mining.

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Speaker 2: But so did anyone ever do Actually, I'm just gonna.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean even when I was young young, there

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Speaker 1: wasn't much of a fence around the thing.

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Speaker 2: So now, oh yeah, now there's a big fence.

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Speaker 1: Like is that what we're talking about with this particular project,

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Speaker 1: like that type of a footprint.

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Speaker 2: No, So one thing is the proposed Twin Metals project

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Speaker 2: is an underground mine and one of the other things

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Speaker 2: that you know. So I actually one of the reasons

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Speaker 2: that I got into mining was because of the Berkeley

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Speaker 2: Pit and and kind of a backwards way, because one

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Speaker 2: of the reasons I ever went into water resources science

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Speaker 2: was because of things like the Berkeley Pit, and I

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Speaker 2: was hell bent on stopping mining from creating such things.

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Speaker 2: It's a long story on how I still got into

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Speaker 2: mining coming from it from that perspective. But you know,

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Speaker 2: the Berkeley Pit was an open pit and it was

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Speaker 2: started pre Clean Water Act. And when they closed up shop,

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Speaker 2: they shut the pumps off, let the pit fill up.

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Speaker 2: And I actually did a research paper on Berkeley Pit

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Speaker 2: back in college. But so now you have water that

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Speaker 2: has to be run continuously through a water treatment plant

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Speaker 2: and they're they're doing that now and pulling out metals

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Speaker 2: and you know, recycling it. And I don't know how

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Speaker 2: many years that treatment is going to take. But you know,

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Speaker 2: one of the key things is that it's all about

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Speaker 2: the ore body, because not all ore bodies aren't created

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Speaker 2: the same, they're created different processes. Our case, ours are

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Speaker 2: volcanic in origin. They were formed when the Earth tried

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Speaker 2: to split itself apart, and so even even in our deposits,

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Speaker 2: so we have what's called the Duluthe Complex, which is

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Speaker 2: the mid Continent rift tried to yank the Earth apart,

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Speaker 2: volcanic intrusion intrusions shoved up into our region. Each one

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Speaker 2: of those intrusions has its own chemistry and own you

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Speaker 2: know what it has in it for metallurgy. So you

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Speaker 2: can't really look at the Berkeley pit because that had

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Speaker 2: pyrite and pyritite and which are just iron sulfides. And

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Speaker 2: the question is what do they have for neutralizing any

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Speaker 2: acid generated? You know, are there silicate minerals, are there

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Speaker 2: carbonate minerals, And so it's you can't really compare that

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Speaker 2: with Twin. And then they, like you said, the other

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Speaker 2: thing is Twin is underground, which right there changes a

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Speaker 2: lot of things. And then the other thing about northern Minnesota,

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Speaker 2: it's super weird to me. So like I live in

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Speaker 2: a spot I'm just an hour and a half west

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Speaker 2: of Ely. I have sand down to like one hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty feet here the glaciers, Like, hey, here you go,

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Speaker 2: here's all your loamy sand. Where Twin is at, there's

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Speaker 2: like you've you've been to the boundary waters. There's barely

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Speaker 2: any dirt, right, It's like bedrock. And then what's weird

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Speaker 2: about Minnesota is that you go up to the boundary waters,

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Speaker 2: like there's water everywhere, but there's a lot of surface

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Speaker 2: water everywhere. We don't have a groundwater aquifer. If you

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Speaker 2: put in a well by Twin, you don't. You actually

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Speaker 2: have to have like a three hundred foot well just

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Speaker 2: to have water enough to like I fear, to have

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Speaker 2: a home. You're gonna look at a three hundred foot

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Speaker 2: deep well. And so there's a lot of water on

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Speaker 2: the surface, but in the groundwater it's it's dry. It's

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Speaker 2: it's so dry. In fact that where we found helium.

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Speaker 2: There's a reason we have helium naturally occurring is because

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Speaker 2: there's no water in those fractures. Even so, just helium's

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Speaker 2: been trapped underground for god knows how many millions of years.

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Speaker 2: So there's just all those different factors like what is

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Speaker 2: a geochemistry, but also just what is it water? And

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Speaker 2: then how are you gonna mine? Are you gonna be

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Speaker 2: an open pit that fills up. There's ways to still

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Speaker 2: manage acid rock drainage, But in Twins case, they're an

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Speaker 2: underground mind that starts four hundred feet down where it's dry.

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Speaker 2: So there's all those different things to factor in. Because yeah,

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Speaker 2: the Berkeley Pit, that's that's the case we all go to,

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Speaker 2: and we all are terrified of that. And that's why

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Speaker 2: when I hear people are scared about twin I get

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Speaker 2: it because that is not what we want there, like,

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Speaker 2: so I understand those fears.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the just reading through your your website right that

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Speaker 1: there's several projects. The helium one is topaz correct, yep, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but the twin metals is described as a surgical Yeah,

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Speaker 1: operation is what they're going for. And it sounds like

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Speaker 1: in comparison with let's say the Sunrise project, it would

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Speaker 1: be very different scale wise. Sunrise you guys describe as

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Speaker 1: as like a high multi gen rational potential and.

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Speaker 2: It's and so the Sunrise is part of what's called

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Speaker 2: the Partridge River intrusion. It's like if you can imagine

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Speaker 2: billion years ago Earth trans tear apart self apart different

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Speaker 2: volcanic intrusions. So the Partridge River intrusion was the one

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Speaker 2: the Sunrise deposits in as well as a North met deposit,

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Speaker 2: which are both new range coppernickel and then north is

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Speaker 2: the South Koeshawei intrusion the Ski and so that one

295
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Speaker 2: was a completely different event. So the way those two

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Speaker 2: volcano you know, volcanic I don't want to keep wanting

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Speaker 2: to call them eruptions, and they're not eruptions they're intrusions.

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Speaker 2: I can hear my geologist friends hollering at me. But

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Speaker 2: if you think of the twin one was very much

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Speaker 2: like almost like a jet up kind of a slope

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Speaker 2: and it's very con you know, concentrated. The metals dropped out,

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Speaker 2: dropping down onto the granite below, and so you can

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Speaker 2: go in and yeah, like they said, it's like surgical,

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Speaker 2: whereas the other ones, the intrusions came up and they're

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Speaker 2: they're just more separate, separated, and they're the deposit is

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Speaker 2: more valuable near surface. So that one you'd have to

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Speaker 2: have an open pit to make it makes sense. Twins

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Speaker 2: deposit they're proposed to mind four hundred feet to forty

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Speaker 2: five hundred feet, so their deposits really deep, which you

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Speaker 2: would you're just not going to create an open pit

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Speaker 2: like that, and you don't have to because of the

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Speaker 2: way the ore is shaped. So it's all about how

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Speaker 2: the universe a million years ago decided to lap this

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Speaker 2: up into the crust. That's a technical pre hear and

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Speaker 2: by the way, cal.

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Speaker 1: I like it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it allows it

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Speaker 1: allows people like me to understand, so keep them coming.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, so you know it is I think our

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Speaker 1: listeners understand that not all things are created equal, right,

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Speaker 1: we talk about in like the wildlife management aspect, like

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Speaker 1: you can't there's no one size fits all model, like

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Speaker 1: for fish limits. Yeah you know, like you know, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of Montana that's an inch away from a

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Speaker 1: high desert, and uh, you can't take the way we

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Speaker 1: manage things over here and apply it to like the

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Speaker 1: Shenandoah Valley.

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Speaker 2: Right. It's it's hard to look at that though sometimes,

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Speaker 2: because you know, I joke that normal people don't live

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Speaker 2: in this world of geochemistry and and different things like that.

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Speaker 2: So it's sometimes easy for us to forget that normal

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Speaker 2: people don't, like, they don't speak the same language. Right,

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Speaker 2: there's nothing worse than listening to the geologists talk. And

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Speaker 2: I say that with love, but I feel like they

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Speaker 2: could swap out dog breeds for the names of different

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Speaker 2: rocks and I would just like, yeah, the Dalmatian era, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I bet, and the Pomeranian yeah yeah, they're just so

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Speaker 2: sometimes I think those of us in mining even we

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Speaker 2: get so used to how we speak in our little

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Speaker 2: bubble that we forget normal people don't live in that

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Speaker 2: bubble and think regularly about what's going on underground. That's

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Speaker 2: an error on our part.

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Speaker 1: Oh. I mean, everybody likes things in their own terms, right,

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Speaker 1: and it's you can't accommodate everybody either, But no, we.

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Speaker 2: Should try to be we should try to be empathetic

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Speaker 2: and recognize that we have to educate, can't. We can't

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Speaker 2: get upset with people if we aren't educating them. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I feel like your world of hunting and fishing is

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Speaker 2: very similar. My husband is regularly teaching me or trying

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Speaker 2: desperately to teach me about different rules and regulations and

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Speaker 2: why they're important and what they mean. And I once

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Speaker 2: again I he could just be making stuff up. I

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Speaker 2: used argon, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: And they can change every couple of years at the minimum, right,

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it's always a learning process, which is which

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Speaker 1: is good.

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Speaker 2: It's good for us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if if it's cool with you, I'd just hit

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Speaker 1: like the a lot of the the common uh themes

359
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Speaker 1: around this twin metals project. But you know that I hear,

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Speaker 1: we hear. So it's what is the surface water component

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Speaker 1: of a project like this? And like you know, downstream

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Speaker 1: effect is certainly something that's on everybody's mind, right.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, And so with the boundary waters. Boundary waters are

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Speaker 2: different than other waters in that normally, when you have

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Speaker 2: a discharge permit from a facility, you know, whether it's

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Speaker 2: a brewery or a wastewater treatment plant or just any

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00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 2: kind of discharge into waters, you typically are allowed some

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Speaker 2: level of material to be added to the water that

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Speaker 2: isn't there currently. That's that's just how our countries Clean

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Speaker 2: Water Act works and there's you know, limits on things.

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Speaker 2: The boundary waters are special and that there can be nothing.

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Speaker 2: There's no acceptable amount that's allowed to enter the boundary waters.

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Speaker 1: And that's because of that wilderness designation.

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Speaker 2: That's because it's an exceptional water quality body so within

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Speaker 2: the state. So Minnesota doesn't Minnesota doesn't mess around with this.

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Speaker 2: So it's not just a factor of you know, seeing

377
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Speaker 2: what's permissionable, it's there's nothing thing permissible for water. So

378
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Speaker 2: twin metals is right next to Birch Lake Reservoir, so

379
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Speaker 2: we have if you've seen on the map, there's the

380
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Speaker 2: big reservoir there and then so Birch Lake flows into

381
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Speaker 2: White Iron flows two other lakes, farm and Garden and

382
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Speaker 2: then Fall Lake and then that goes to the boundary water.

383
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Speaker 2: So looking at you know, when we're looking at discharge

384
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Speaker 2: from the site, you can't have an impact at the

385
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 2: boundary water. So going back up, so what twins. One

386
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Speaker 2: of the things TWINS looking at is actually what water

387
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Speaker 2: would we would they have to to discharge because as

388
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 2: I mentioned, they're bone dry below surface and they have

389
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Speaker 2: to use water to process. So that's one of the challenges.

390
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Speaker 2: So it's different, like I think a lot of times

391
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Speaker 2: people look at the taconite mines, and the taconite mines

392
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Speaker 2: are in a different aquifer and they have water to discharge,

393
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 2: and their surface pit their open pit mines, and so

394
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 2: their discharge water to keep their equipment dry. With twin,

395
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 2: when you don't start mining until four hundred feet down,

396
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 2: any water that's coming into the mine will get pumped

397
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,439
Speaker 2: back up to the surface to get used in the

398
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:17,719
Speaker 2: processed water circuit, and then some will go out with

399
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 2: the tailings in a dry stack facility. But the vast

400
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,880
Speaker 2: majority of water that would even come into the mine

401
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 2: is just getting circulated in processed water. So you don't

402
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 2: have you don't have a discharge, and they've committed to

403
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 2: no process water discharge. The water balance wondn't support that anyways,

404
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 2: there's no water to discharge. And then the other thing

405
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 2: would be contact water, So same thing committed to. So

406
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 2: contact water is anything that would come in contact with

407
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 2: or and that would include any water coming into the

408
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 2: underground mine. So they made a commitment to not discharge

409
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Speaker 2: any of that as well. So you don't have a

410
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Speaker 2: traditional discharge point, like if you think of I'm trying

411
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 2: to think I'm going to quit well, like the tack

412
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 2: and It mines, and I'm sure some of the mines

413
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 2: out west, I'm not super familiar with them, but they

414
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 2: might have an NPDS discharge point, but Twin wouldn't have that,

415
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 2: So you don't have that discharge out to Birch Lake.

416
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 2: So then when you're looking at surface water, that that's

417
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 2: the obvious one. But then there can be questions on

418
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:26,479
Speaker 2: water quantity. Do you need to use any water from

419
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 2: Birch Lake to maintain your water levels in the process.

420
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 2: The other thing is protecting wetlands on surface you know.

421
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 2: So speaking of surface water, a lot of times people

422
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 2: think of like the big rivers and lakes, and I'm

423
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 2: not saying you did, but we just were not just

424
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 2: the land of ten thousand Lakes or the land of

425
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 2: even more wetlands. I think only Florida, Alaska, and Louisiana

426
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 2: have more wetlands than we do in Minnesota. So then

427
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 2: that's the other thing, is protecting the wetlands. And one

428
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 2: of the things Twin has is one hundred some pessometers

429
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 2: already out in the wetlands trying to understand how the

430
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 2: water levels fluctuate with rain. We're kind of in a

431
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 2: little bit of a drought here right now. But because

432
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 2: if you have an underground mine, are there surficial are

433
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 2: there connections to the surface from the underground mind that

434
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 2: could draw down those wetlands. So that's the other thing

435
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 2: with surface water, it's not it's not the obvious stuff sometimes,

436
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 2: you know, as far as any constituents getting out in

437
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 2: the water. It's also are you affecting water levels in

438
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 2: the wetlands that are above the mine, and are you

439
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 2: affecting water levels in birch lakes somehow? Are there any

440
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 2: fractures or faults that actually do have a meaning of

441
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 2: meaningful connection to the underground mind, So there's just all

442
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 2: of those things that have to get factored in. Yeah,

443
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 2: it quickly, I apologize if that was a lot count well.

444
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: No, I mean it is a lot, but you know,

445
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: it kind of is like, well, why is this worth it?

446
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 2: Huh?

447
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: How much is down there? Like who can we live

448
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: and doing?

449
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 2: Mix? So it's about a quarter of Minnesota's total copper

450
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 2: nickel resources, and we do the Duluth Complex, which is

451
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 2: this part of is one of the world's largest untapped

452
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 2: resources of copper nickel. So it's actually the vast majority

453
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 2: of nickel in the US is there in the Duluth Complex.

454
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 2: So not just a twin project, but twin projects about

455
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 2: a quarter or the proposed project that they had in

456
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. They don't currently have a proposed project, they

457
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 2: don't currently have leases, but the project they propose in

458
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, it's about a quarter of the Duluth Complex.

459
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 2: So the Loof Complex is about a third, give or take,

460
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 2: of this nation's copper, almost all of the nickel, and

461
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 2: then almost all of the cobalt actually, so it's it's

462
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 2: a massive deposit. And I look at it like if

463
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 2: it wasn't a significant deposit, we wouldn't see the investment

464
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 2: we've seen in it, and we wouldn't you know, they've

465
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 2: drilled two million and feet of drill cores to understand

466
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 2: that deposit. If it wasn't worth it, they wouldn't have

467
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 2: done that, and they wouldn't still be sticking around.

468
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: So it's, oh.

469
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 2: My god, I can't even imagine. It's cool though. They

470
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 2: have a you know, I keep saying when you come back,

471
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 2: when you come to Eli, I'm just going to keep

472
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 2: pushing on you properly. They have a huge core shed

473
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 2: where you can see the walls full of They have

474
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 2: all the core in the building. But it's it's a

475
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 2: mind blowing amount and it's it's a huge deposit, and

476
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 2: it's you know, we've known about it since the sixties

477
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 2: and people have been you know, poking around trying to

478
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 2: figure out how big that resource is for a long time.

479
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 2: And we haven't had underground mining since the sixties, and

480
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 2: it's a that's a whole different you know, we have

481
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:56,479
Speaker 2: all these open pit minds, but we don't have any

482
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 2: underground mind so that's a whole learning curve there. And

483
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 2: I get claustrophobics, so don't ask me if I'm gonna

484
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 2: work in the mine. I padicked going through Mammoth caves

485
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 2: and they had fat Man's Misery and tall Man's misery,

486
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,239
Speaker 2: and I'm like, yep, I am not enjoying this. I

487
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 2: am quite miserable right now. So I don't think underground

488
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 2: mining is for me, but it is proud of people.

489
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 2: They love it.

490
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: The Tamarak project that's on the list has a current

491
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: contract with Tesla for seventy five thousand metric tons of nickel.

492
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, that project has so the Tamarac intrusion. I'm sorry,

493
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 2: I'm really kind of geeking out a little bit. I do. Yeah,

494
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 2: forget me. So there's the Duluth complex and then there's

495
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 2: the Tamarac intrusion. So those are two separate. They're separated

496
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 2: by six million years, still part of the Mid Continent rift,

497
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 2: and the Tamarat intrusion is actually a high grade nickel.

498
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 2: So it's they actually they just hit all They're gonna

499
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 2: yell at me over twenty percent nickel in one of

500
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 2: their dro cores. And there's there's rumors that the Smithsonian's

501
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 2: interested actually in it because it's crazy high grade nickels.

502
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 2: So they have that deal with Tesla, and so you know,

503
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 2: we do see Tesla switching out to more lithium ion

504
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 2: iron phosphate batteries, but they also have their deposits different,

505
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 2: and they actually have the iron you could use for

506
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 2: lithium iron phosphate batteries as well. So they're still working

507
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 2: with Tesla on not just a nickel, which is still

508
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 2: going to be used in batteries as we go forward,

509
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 2: but also those lithium iron phosphate battery chemistry is fascinating

510
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 2: and we're gonna have to figure it out because we're

511
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 2: going to need to figure out storage.

512
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it's a direction that we're heading, that's what. Yeah,

513
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: everything I see says.

514
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, how do you get how do you get batteries?

515
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 2: How do we power a nation? How do we power

516
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 2: a world? It's it's a fascinating time to be in

517
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 2: mining and metals.

518
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you know, and I saw there's some reference

519
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: to recycling, and you know, just full disclosure as a

520
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: you know, teenage mutant Ninja Turtle Saturday Morning cartoon kid, right,

521
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: and they kept telling us like, recycle your batteries, recycle

522
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: your batteries. And then as an adult, I find out

523
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: that you basically can't recycle batteries double a's triple as right.

524
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, so your regular alkaline batteries, you're kind of normal

525
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 2: that I'm saying this is a redhead who got called

526
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 2: copper top as a kid. But you're regularly, like through

527
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 2: a cell, copper top batteries an energizer. Yeah yeah, Unfortunately

528
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 2: those aren't. But the lithium batteries, the nickelcademium batteries, all

529
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 2: your power tool batteries, you know, those are all those

530
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 2: rechargeables can be recycled and they have to be. You know,

531
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 2: it drives me. So I worked thirteen years at an

532
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 2: iron mine and my husband still is a steel worker

533
00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 2: at one and I like, if you if people truly

534
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 2: understood what it takes to ever get a metal product

535
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 2: out of the ground and into a produit, you know,

536
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 2: the actual metal into a product, they would recycle stuff more,

537
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,399
Speaker 2: you know one and I think that statistic is one

538
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 2: in every thousand exploration sites actually becomes a mine. And

539
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 2: this world is finite. So if it takes that much

540
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 2: to ever find a resource in the first place and

541
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 2: use it, and it takes thousands of people to make

542
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 2: it into a product, why, oh my god, why are

543
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 2: we throwing these things in landfills? And you know, especially

544
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,240
Speaker 2: the lithium and the nickel and all of that stuff.

545
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 2: We Minnesota has a huge commitment to figuring that out.

546
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 2: So we actually have the state of Minnesota created a

547
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 2: Materials Recycling Task Force solely focused on improving our metal

548
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 2: recycling and understanding some of those challenges. You know, if

549
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 2: you live in a rural area like I, do you

550
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 2: take your garbage to what's called the canister site that

551
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 2: then goes to the county land pill and it's this

552
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 2: whole thing, but they don't They only accept batteries once

553
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 2: a year on has waste Day, So you're hoarding your

554
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 2: stuff and then taking it in or you're going to

555
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 2: a best Buy or something like that to take your electronics.

556
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 2: And so Minnesota saying, how do we how do we

557
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 2: fix this because you know, you know, people are just

558
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 2: throwing cables and other stuff into their bags and just

559
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 2: throwing them in the garbage. Given what it takes to

560
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 2: permit a mind, given what it takes to find the

561
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 2: minerals in the first place, why the heck are we

562
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 2: letting these things go into landfills. So I'm super proud

563
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 2: of our state for being like, hey, we're not going

564
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 2: to keep letting these things go into landfills. We're going

565
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 2: to find a way to make it where it's just

566
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 2: as easy to get rid of your metal recycling, electronics

567
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 2: recycling as it is anything else. Like they're trying to

568
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 2: just they're trying to dumby proof it because people, you know,

569
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 2: like environmental has always been a huge priority for me,

570
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 2: and my mom is a huge environmentalist. Like so for me,

571
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 2: recycling is just what you do. But to normal like

572
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,399
Speaker 2: average people, they're busy chasing kids, they're busy, like maybe

573
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 2: they're sick, maybe they have a life, I maybe they

574
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 2: just have other stuff going on, and we have to

575
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,399
Speaker 2: make it easy for them to recycle because you don't

576
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 2: get a circular economy if you're just letting everything go

577
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 2: into a landfill. And it just, honestly, like I said,

578
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,240
Speaker 2: spending thirteen years out of twenty four to seven seeing

579
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 2: what these folks do at mines, it's to me, it's

580
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 2: disrespectful to the workers to not recycle. It's disrespectful to

581
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 2: the earth because you cut her open and you said

582
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 2: give me your metals and I'm just going to throw

583
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 2: them back in his waist Like that is just to me,

584
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 2: the hugest insult we can do with things. And I

585
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 2: just went on my soapbox and I was great I mean,

586
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 2: it's just it's.

587
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 1: It's somebody else this week instead of just me. That's

588
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: that's perfect.

589
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 2: I just it's you know, we just struggle as a

590
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 2: nation where consumer nation. We buy too much stuff. We

591
00:36:55,680 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 2: don't treat the stuff we have well, it's disposable. Planned

592
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 2: obsolescence is my greatest enemy. And we just we have

593
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 2: to do better because mining, no matter what, mining is

594
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 2: always there. It's a cut on the earth. And so

595
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 2: and it's only twenty twenty five. There's eight billion people

596
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 2: on the earth. I think last time I looked, I'd

597
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 2: like to think we're going to be around a lot longer,

598
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 2: which means if we want to have the quality of

599
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 2: life we have a lot longer. We have to start

600
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 2: managing our materials better so that people down the road

601
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 2: don't hate our guts.

602
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:42,280
Speaker 1: Absolutely. And you know, so we just had an act

603
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,359
Speaker 1: Trout Unlimited was was huge on this and it's going

604
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: to kind of come back to water, right, but it

605
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: was regarding like the cleanup of abandoned mind sights yep,

606
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: So we don't have these downstream effects when you have

607
00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: flash floods, oh, that happen to these mine areas that

608
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 1: basically have been biohazard off not biohazard, but have have.

609
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

610
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 1: And one thing that we talk about is is how

611
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: do we we have to take a leap of faith

612
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 1: as a consumer of the outdoors that we can have

613
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 1: any one of these projects in a way that is

614
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: sustainable yep. And then we also have to have like

615
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,360
Speaker 1: the leap of faith that it's going to get cleaned

616
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 1: up once the extraction period has ended.

617
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, And can.

618
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: You talk about how that works? And and just so

619
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: you know, I know you haven't been listening to the

620
00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: show very long, but we talked often about how there's

621
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,439
Speaker 1: good actors and bad actors in everything, doesn't matter, pick

622
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 1: your pursuit, pick your industry, whatever. There's there's plenty of

623
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: hunters that I would be proud as hell to be

624
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: lumped in with. And there's plenty of hunters out there

625
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:18,359
Speaker 1: that I'm like, oh, I'm not part of that crew,

626
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 1: you know.

627
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 2: So no, you're onred percent, right, And the I like

628
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 2: that you said leap of faith. I've never thought of

629
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 2: it that way before. And I know they're working on

630
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 2: the Good Samaritan laws for out West for mining companies

631
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,240
Speaker 2: to start cleaning up other people's YESSS is that they left,

632
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 2: and it is it's so I don't even know what

633
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 2: the right word for it is frustrating, whatever, it sucks.

634
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 2: When you there, we go just go real technical term.

635
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 2: Your listeners are like, wow, she sounds really professional. But

636
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 2: it sucks when you look at what people did in

637
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 2: the past. Yeah, and you're and from an industry perspective,

638
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 2: it sucks because you're like, you buggers. You made it

639
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,879
Speaker 2: harder for everyone that follows in your footsteps because we're

640
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 2: going to get compared to what you did, and you know,

641
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 2: often without any regulations. So I've I worked on a

642
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 2: site doing so. In Minnesota, we have the voluntary cleanup

643
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 2: program and you can you get legal coverage to clean

644
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 2: up someone else's mess. So we don't like it's once

645
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 2: it was private land, so things are different. I know

646
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 2: out West with so much public land, it's it's its

647
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 2: own thing. But I worked on a project where we

648
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 2: were cleaning up of mine that closed in nineteen sixty four,

649
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:43,439
Speaker 2: and they had left their shops and so back then

650
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 2: they used leaded grease, they had PCBs, they had all

651
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 2: sorts of really not fun things to clean up, and

652
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 2: so you can see this is what happens when you

653
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 2: don't have regulations, because Minnesota had no mining regulations until

654
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty and that was only for iron mines, and

655
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 2: then our regulations for nonfares came out in ninety two,

656
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 2: and so yeah, which I isn't that long ago, so

657
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 2: iron minds. I mean, so the mine I used to

658
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 2: work at had already been running for four years before

659
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 2: Minnesota even had reclamation rules. And so I sometimes have

660
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,399
Speaker 2: to what I worked on that project where that mine

661
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 2: had closed in sixty four and we were cleaning up

662
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 2: the shops. I had to keep telling myself my coworkers,

663
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 2: this is what they did preregulation, which is why we

664
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:36,319
Speaker 2: have regulations. Like we can be mad. This is what

665
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 2: people did. They had their back forty you know, it's

666
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 2: it's no different than what homeowners did right where they

667
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 2: just threw you know the joke. So I grew up

668
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 2: on a small farm, and you know the classic line

669
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 2: was that, well, yeah, when you change out the oil

670
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 2: and the tractor, you put it on the road so

671
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 2: you keep dust down like that was. And it's like

672
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 2: trying to understand how people have changed over time. But

673
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 2: so in ninety two ninety three, when the state came

674
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 2: up with its non Ferris regulations. One of the things

675
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 2: they said is we do not want to have happen

676
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 2: here what happened out west. So the Minnesota mining reclamation

677
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 2: rules are very specific on here is what you have

678
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 2: to do for your stockpiles. If you have stockpiles, here's

679
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 2: the cover you have to have, Here's what you have

680
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 2: to have for you know, just even shaping the piles.

681
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 2: But then we have our own wetland rules, and that's

682
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 2: a whole different beast. But the big thing they did

683
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 2: that I'm really happy about is they have financial assurance.

684
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 2: So they said, we do not want to be left

685
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 2: holding the bag if one of you starts up and

686
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 2: goes bankrupt and leaves. We do not want to count

687
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 2: on the State of Minnesota getting the money through bankruptcy

688
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 2: proceedings because those sometimes can just not leave any money

689
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 2: for the state to clean up anything. So Minnesota has

690
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 2: financial assurance requirements that say, before you can put a

691
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 2: shovel on the ground, you have to give us money

692
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 2: to clean up whatever you do. And so it's water

693
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 2: treatment if needed, it's shaping of stockpiles, it's reclamation of

694
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 2: stockpiles if you have any. So Twin doesn't have stockpiles

695
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 2: because it's underground, but if you were to have an

696
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 2: open pit with stockpiles, so it's reclamation, it's raising of buildings,

697
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 2: and so it factors in all of those things you

698
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 2: would need to pay. And it allows money for the

699
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,280
Speaker 2: state to hire a contract or a consultant to manage

700
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,399
Speaker 2: it for the state, which I think was a really

701
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 2: smart addition. So it's contractor fees, it's the whole beast,

702
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 2: and they have to give it to the state and irrevocable.

703
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 2: The state can't lose it. It's not dischargeable through bankruptcy.

704
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 2: It's cash, it's irrevocable letters or credit bonds, things like that,

705
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 2: and it has to get re upped every year. So

706
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,720
Speaker 2: every year the DNR in our case, Department of Natural Resources.

707
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 2: I know every state's different. The DNR and the company say,

708
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,839
Speaker 2: have you opened up new land, have you built new stockpiles?

709
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 2: What have you done? Or it can go or it

710
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 2: can work backwards. Have you reclaimed a stockpile? Okay, we

711
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 2: don't have to do that. So then that amount gets

712
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 2: adjusted every year. So that's one of the things Minnesota

713
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 2: did to try to prevent exactly what you've seen out

714
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 2: West where people just went bankrupt, and I think that's

715
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 2: to me, that's critical and one of the reasons that

716
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 2: I feel better about the projects personally. But I also

717
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 2: think just having people engaged makes me feel better about

718
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 2: the projects. Like you, we have groups that care enough

719
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 2: to challenge and ask and push and hold the agencies accountable,

720
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 2: and I there's a lot of value in that and

721
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,320
Speaker 2: a lot of other places. I mean, in the US

722
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 2: you have a say, but other places around the world

723
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 2: don't have that, And I think those awkward, tough conversations

724
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 2: are good for us, you know.

725
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:03,919
Speaker 1: Just a funny memory on the outreach side of things.

726
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:07,760
Speaker 1: I had a friend who was a geologist for Midas

727
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:12,760
Speaker 1: Gold and oh yeah, yeah. One of the outreach community

728
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 1: outreach things that they would continually do is they would

729
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 1: set up little presentations where they'd let kids pan for gold.

730
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 1: But Midas was was pulling like microscopic gold out of

731
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,720
Speaker 1: the ground in Idaho, so they actually had to buy

732
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 1: gold that was big enough for the kids to see.

733
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:43,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you can buy those you can buy those

734
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 2: kids online, yeah.

735
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 1: Because that's what But that was like their outreach, like

736
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 1: this is how we engage the community and and have

737
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 1: those conversations and get buy in to the project in

738
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 1: that area.

739
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 2: I'm trying to picture ours is like, we couldn't do

740
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 2: that with ours. Ours would be really boring. It's one

741
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 2: of the things I loved about working in iron mining

742
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 2: because the ore is actually magnetic, so that one was

743
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 2: a lot easier to go kick kids and.

744
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: Be like, that's me.

745
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 2: Here's a chunk of rock. Look, magnets stick to it.

746
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 2: This is how we separate it. Our stuff is not

747
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 2: is not as exciting, But I found that.

748
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: So when we're talking about uh, I guess twin metals

749
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:34,399
Speaker 1: specifically is the the main aside from just the proximity,

750
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 1: is the major concern in the processing then after the

751
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 1: ore has come out of the ground.

752
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,359
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's specific to that or if

753
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 2: it's just a general When I talk to folks, they're

754
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 2: just they're just concerned in general. And a lot of

755
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 2: folks do think it's going to be an open pit,

756
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 2: and a lot of folks think that there's also going

757
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 2: to have a conventional tailing spasin versus a dry stack,

758
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,080
Speaker 2: which is where you pulled out a lot of the

759
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 2: moisture and so you don't have a dam in this case,

760
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 2: but a lot of folks don't recognize that yet. It's

761
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:15,359
Speaker 2: really the proximity, and it's it's just we you've been

762
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 2: to the Boundary Waters. It is not a normal place

763
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,879
Speaker 2: to visit, and I feel weird saying that's someone from

764
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 2: out west, where when I go out west, I'm like,

765
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 2: oh my god, this is magical. But Boundary Waters is

766
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 2: magical and it is it's not a place where we

767
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 2: think rationally. So when we had a huge windstorm back

768
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 2: in ninety nine that like decimated the northern part of

769
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 2: the Boundary Waters, which you may have seen some of

770
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 2: evidence of that when you visited, if you went in

771
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 2: through the gunflint. We didn't react like it was just

772
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 2: a normal storm. It's it's a bigger thing than that.

773
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 2: It's it's a spiritual thing to us. It's a whole

774
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 2: different place. So when you talk about putting an or

775
00:47:56,200 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 2: a mine that has a sulfide or like, all all

776
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 2: conversations start from that place of fear of what it

777
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 2: would do to the Boundary Waters. And that's a challenge

778
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 2: we have, and it's that's that's it's a tough conversation.

779
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 2: So it's it doesn't necessarily matter if it's underground or

780
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:21,399
Speaker 2: open pit. You know, I don't know if that makes

781
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 2: a difference to people unless you can really go into

782
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 2: detail and start pulling out schematics and showing things. I

783
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 2: don't know if most people know the difference between a

784
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 2: conventional tailings basin and a dry stack. Once again, I

785
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 2: feel like you need schematics the processing itself. Most people

786
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 2: don't have any experience with the processing of the ore,

787
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 2: so I don't know if I don't know if that

788
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:47,360
Speaker 2: one actually ever really rises to the top level of

789
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 2: concern as much as just the mind in general. So

790
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 2: it's it's a hard one.

791
00:48:56,719 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 1: And then like footprint overall foot print support and everything

792
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 1: else for a project of this size, how substantial is that.

793
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 2: Well, that's where it gets funny too, Because I coming

794
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 2: from a rural area, I think my sense of scale

795
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:21,399
Speaker 2: is probably skewed compared to normal people. So the dry

796
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:24,359
Speaker 2: stack facility would have the largest footprint, and that's five

797
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 2: hundred acres they had proposed in the mind plan. So

798
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 2: five hundred acres sounds I think to some people like

799
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 2: a very big footprint. But when you look at like

800
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:39,839
Speaker 2: the mines on the Iron Range, their tailings basins are

801
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:43,760
Speaker 2: six seven eight thousand acres, So a five hundred acre

802
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 2: is pretty small, just like the scale of mining is

803
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 2: pretty small. It's eighteen thousand tons a day. The tac

804
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 2: nights are you know, one hundred thousand tons plus a day.

805
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 2: So even like that sense of scale, and when you

806
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 2: look at you know, in a public land setting, five

807
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 2: hundred are sounds huge and they're like, well, Minnesota's got

808
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 2: you know where we at five million I think acres

809
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:10,799
Speaker 2: of public land. No, it doesn't sound great, it's more

810
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 2: than that.

811
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:14,720
Speaker 1: Well, I mean you're talking to a lot of white

812
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:20,760
Speaker 1: tail folks right who when they hang themselves to a tree.

813
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 1: You can put a lot of a lot of folks

814
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 1: on a small chunker ground.

815
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 2: So that's terrible the way you phrase that, you know,

816
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 2: And I think public lands is a weird thing here too,

817
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 2: because we have so many private like hunting hunting here

818
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 2: is I think different than it is out West, where

819
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 2: a lot of people have like hunting shacks here and

820
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 2: have private lands. And I don't do you folks have

821
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 2: that kind of thing where a lot of your hunting

822
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 2: is done on private lands.

823
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 1: Oh sure, you know, we we always talk about like

824
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:55,399
Speaker 1: public and private, But I think it's it's fairly abnormal

825
00:50:55,880 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 1: to not cross the fence one way or the other,

826
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:06,879
Speaker 1: at least during some point in your season. Yeah, but yeah,

827
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 1: I mean there there's We took a friend ours into

828
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:15,760
Speaker 1: the Bob Marshall Wilderness. A friend of ours Drew goat

829
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:19,560
Speaker 1: Tag Mountain goat Tag in there, and we all went

830
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 1: in for a little over ten daysn't and one of

831
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:25,839
Speaker 1: our friends born and raised Montana dude, that was his

832
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 1: first public land hunt, and he was probably late forties

833
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:37,839
Speaker 1: at the time. I yeah, and he just grew up,

834
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 1: grew up surrounded by big ranchers and and that's that's

835
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 1: how they did everything. But I was pretty blown away

836
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: by that, so I would call him the exception to

837
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 1: the rule.

838
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 2: But and here, I feel like it's a lot of

839
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 2: private land hunting. We have some public land hunting. You know,

840
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 2: the superior National Force is three million acres. So you know,

841
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 2: when you look at the twin footprint of the five

842
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 2: hundred for the dry stack, the building itself, it's small.

843
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 2: I can't I know, I'm going to screw up how

844
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 2: big the building is. But it makes a huge difference

845
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 2: to have an underground mind versus a surface mine and

846
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:17,320
Speaker 2: it makes a big difference to have dry stack. A

847
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 2: dry stack of five hundred acres is a fraction of

848
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 2: what you'd have with a conventional tailings basin where it

849
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 2: has to be big enough for the tailings to go

850
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 2: out and settle the clean water to get pumped back. Like,

851
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 2: it's just a totally different structure.

852
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 1: So yeah, as as a trade organization, how do you

853
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 1: allow membership? Right? Like, basically what I'm getting at is,

854
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 1: do you ever deny membership?

855
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 2: No one has ever wanted to be a part of

856
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 2: us that we wouldn't want to be a part of us.

857
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 2: I guess if that makes sense. So we've never had

858
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:03,279
Speaker 2: it come up yet. So I and I, Oh, I

859
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 2: know what you're saying. Oh you mean like for big companies. Sorry,

860
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 2: like we were established with our big corporations. You meant

861
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,800
Speaker 2: like our mining projects. I was mining, you know, because

862
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 2: we misunderstood.

863
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 1: Oh no, I'm now I'm a confusing guy. The you

864
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 1: know what, because like oftentimes we say, hey, we we

865
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:30,840
Speaker 1: are self aware we need this stuff out of the ground,

866
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 1: but can't we get it from someplace else instead of here?

867
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:40,080
Speaker 1: We're not anti mine, We're just anti this particular mind

868
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:46,800
Speaker 1: and this particular spot. Does mining Minnesota ever find yourself

869
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 1: in that position?

870
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 2: We we haven't yet. So you know, for us, the

871
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 2: Twin project is a good project, and so that one

872
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:57,279
Speaker 2: has been an easy one for us. And you know,

873
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 2: New Range, same thing talent we feel good about. But

874
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:02,880
Speaker 2: we have had conversations if we had a company propose

875
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 2: a project and we thought they were shady and we

876
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 2: didn't feel good about it. You know, I this is

877
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 2: where I live. I've you know, I've lived in Northern

878
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:13,080
Speaker 2: Minnesota my whole life. This is where I'm going to die.

879
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 2: I I already have a niche at the Columbarium with

880
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 2: my husband, like this is this is where I'm going

881
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 2: to stay and I am not going to put you know,

882
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 2: my master's's Water resource science is like, this is what

883
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 2: I've done. My whole life is environmental work. I will

884
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 2: not accept a company where I don't sleep at night.

885
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 2: Like if Twin was to go through and they started

886
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 2: just proposing just sorry, I don't want to give you

887
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 2: an explicit rating on your thing if they started proposing

888
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 2: a not good project. The other thing is that our

889
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 2: other member companies would say, hey, look we're we're investing

890
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:51,919
Speaker 2: in your voice. You are not. We do not want

891
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:54,360
Speaker 2: you to be the voice of this company or you know,

892
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:57,799
Speaker 2: secondary voice. So there's that. You know, I have a

893
00:54:57,800 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 2: board of directors, So my board of directors, you know,

894
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:02,280
Speaker 2: I have the companies, but we also have a strong

895
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:04,839
Speaker 2: union presence. You know, we have three unions that are

896
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 2: on our board of directors. We have an energy company,

897
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 2: we have you know, other consulting firms. Our reputations all

898
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:17,319
Speaker 2: rest on the projects that we support. We're not going

899
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 2: to support projects we don't feel good about. If Twin

900
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 2: was located anywhere else in the country, Twin would have

901
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 2: already been mined out, Like that project is well thought out,

902
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:31,919
Speaker 2: they care, they're focused. It's where it's located. So it's

903
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:34,320
Speaker 2: not an issue of if it's a good company or

904
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 2: good project. It's a matter of this is just where

905
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 2: it's located. And these are the challenges solely because of that.

906
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 2: So that's a big thing is that Luckily we haven't

907
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:46,400
Speaker 2: had to wrestle with that yet. But you know, maybe

908
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 2: somebody else starts exploration, maybe a different company comes in,

909
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 2: and it's it's really about I need to sleep at

910
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 2: night and I need to know that I'm not going

911
00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 2: to waste I've worked too old to lose my credibility

912
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 2: on a project. So I was.

913
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 1: Speaking with a young fellah who's I would guess a

914
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 1: sophomore maybe junior at the max At School of Mines

915
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:27,400
Speaker 1: in Colorado. Oh yeah, I had brought up the idea,

916
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 1: and you know, I think it's something that gets used, right,

917
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:34,279
Speaker 1: like when we talk about these moratoriums. Yeah, there's a

918
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 1: lot of ways to think about those, but I think

919
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:40,279
Speaker 1: about them and okay, if if it's really a moratorium,

920
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 1: what we're saying is we recognize what's in the ground

921
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:52,239
Speaker 1: as valuable, but we're going to kick the can down

922
00:56:52,239 --> 00:57:00,360
Speaker 1: the road until something else comes along that makes whatever

923
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:06,080
Speaker 1: that resource is more worthwhile to extract right now, So

924
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 1: I think about it in terms of like new technologies

925
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 1: that come on the scene that make whatever that is

926
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 1: easier to deal with cleaner on the environment, you know,

927
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:26,479
Speaker 1: some something that reduces the overall footprint. And in this case,

928
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:29,440
Speaker 1: with this this fella I was talking about, we were

929
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 1: talking about oil, right, and he's like, well, at the

930
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 1: end of the day, oil is always going to weigh

931
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:41,959
Speaker 1: the same And I was like, oh, yeah, I guess

932
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 1: that's true.

933
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 2: I thought of it like that.

934
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 1: But where can you just talk to the practices technology

935
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 1: side of things of we have got I mean, we've

936
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 1: got to be mining cleaner and better now than we

937
00:57:57,920 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 1: were one hundred years ago.

938
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it's not even a question, you know. One

939
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 2: of it. One of the things is we care now

940
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:10,560
Speaker 2: we have a Clean Water Act like that alone, I

941
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 2: think it's really hard for folks born after the Clean

942
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 2: Water Act to fully recognize what that did for our nation.

943
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 2: And that was a bipartisan effort, that was Richard Nixon

944
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 2: like that was and I'm proud to say, uh my

945
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 2: congressman at the time, Congressman Overstar, was one of the

946
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:30,000
Speaker 2: authors of that and it was that was game changing.

947
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:31,720
Speaker 2: So that's a big part of it is that we

948
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 2: actually just pay attention now so we actually have regulations.

949
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 2: We also have control of waste, you know, even just

950
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 2: how do we manage and materials we you know, generate

951
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:46,000
Speaker 2: and how do we manage that stuff. But you look

952
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:49,919
Speaker 2: at equipment, you know twin had proposed. Now now there's

953
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:55,919
Speaker 2: electric vehicles, you know, the big companies. I'm not gonna

954
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 2: start naming brands because I feel like that's a whole

955
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:00,920
Speaker 2: different issue, but there are companies that make electric vehicles

956
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 2: for use underground versus having diesel powered equipment where you're

957
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 2: dealing with you know, big ventilation systems that are necessary

958
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 2: for worker safety things like that. So Twin had, you know,

959
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 2: looked at evaluated electric vehicles. One of those things with

960
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 2: those electric vehicles is the power of GPS and the

961
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 2: power of controlling where you mind and understanding where you

962
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 2: mind real time. You know, it was cool working at

963
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:29,400
Speaker 2: an Iron mind where they had the big dispatch system

964
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 2: set up and it's all polygons based on a block

965
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 2: model of the ore, and the shovels know exactly where

966
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 2: they're digging, they know exactly what they're you know, what

967
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:40,959
Speaker 2: they need to do. The trucks know exactly where they're going.

968
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 2: All of that stuff is so controlled versus in the

969
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:48,960
Speaker 2: old days. It's like it looks like the rock we want, okay. Now,

970
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:52,440
Speaker 2: it's all just that ability to even just manage where

971
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:55,840
Speaker 2: you go, what you do, understand where water's coming in,

972
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:58,919
Speaker 2: and just even the mapping of fractures in the rock.

973
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 2: So one of the big things that you know, Twin

974
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 2: had to do is looking at drill holes to understand

975
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 2: where are they're naturally occurring fractures and then do packer

976
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:11,000
Speaker 2: tests and do you know, different surge tests and see

977
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 2: where are those fractures connected, and just all of that

978
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:18,360
Speaker 2: mapping and understanding like we've just so improved GIS and

979
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 2: GPS capabilities, I think it's a huge thing. And understanding metallurgy,

980
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 2: so doing material characterization before you ever start mining and

981
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:35,280
Speaker 2: you are artificially weathering the rock to see what's coming

982
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 2: out of it, how much acid you know? How much?

983
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 2: How much is the risk of acid generation and what's

984
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:45,400
Speaker 2: your neutralization potential? You know? So even just those setups

985
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:48,960
Speaker 2: that they work with the labs to do huge advantage.

986
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 2: Dry stacks are relatively new versus conventional tailings like, so

987
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:56,400
Speaker 2: there's just we've learned. We've learned in painful ways. Right,

988
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 2: you brought up Berkeley Pit earlier. That was a lesson,

989
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 2: So it's not a great lesson to learn, but it

990
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:06,560
Speaker 2: was a lesson and we've had other painful lessons the

991
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:09,400
Speaker 2: industries had to learn, and not just from our industry

992
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 2: but just just in general. Right, humans, how do you

993
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:15,880
Speaker 2: know how we do highway projects, how we do other things?

994
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:19,800
Speaker 2: Like we have to keep improving equipment. But that's the

995
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 2: big things I see are just those capabilities of just

996
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 2: that knowledge, the ability to generate knowledge, and the ability

997
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 2: to do something with that knowledge has been to me

998
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 2: the biggest improvement I've seen in the twenty years I've

999
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 2: been in this industry. So, and it's gonna be who

1000
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 2: knows where we're going to be in the future. But

1001
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 2: you know, I think, you know, back in the old days,

1002
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 2: they were they had the boundary waters, they had that mineral,

1003
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:45,680
Speaker 2: they had that buffer created for a reason, and our deposit,

1004
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 2: you know, the twin deposits out of that region. And

1005
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:54,880
Speaker 2: so we look at what most people have never even

1006
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 2: seen what they proposed to do because it never got

1007
01:01:57,040 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 2: into environmental review. It was stuck in scolping. So that

1008
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 2: that's the other thing is if a project doesn't actually

1009
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:06,640
Speaker 2: go into environmental review, how do you ever really learn

1010
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:09,560
Speaker 2: all of those super nerdy things.

1011
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there's got to be I think, right

1012
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:15,400
Speaker 1: on the investment side of things, there's got to be

1013
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 1: a higher likelihood that the project's going to happen in

1014
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:25,680
Speaker 1: order to pony up the cash to do that further research, right, Yeah.

1015
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:29,480
Speaker 2: Because during environmental review is typically where you do really

1016
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:34,600
Speaker 2: I mean, they started baseline monitoring back in early two thousands,

1017
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:38,360
Speaker 2: but doing some of that other development is done partly.

1018
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 2: As you go through scoping environmental review, you also are

1019
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 2: required to do an alternatives analysis and scope and environmental

1020
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:48,560
Speaker 2: review that says, and that's multiple people that contribute to

1021
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 2: alternatives analysis, like do you need to put the dry

1022
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:55,240
Speaker 2: stack there? How about put the dry stack there? How

1023
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:58,320
Speaker 2: about this? How about that? Do you need to run

1024
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:00,960
Speaker 2: that kind of equipment? Do you? And all of those

1025
01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:03,640
Speaker 2: things kind of get hashed out, which is how that

1026
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:06,680
Speaker 2: system was designed to be used for. You know, as

1027
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:12,160
Speaker 2: far as environmental review goes, it's an important process and

1028
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:14,480
Speaker 2: because that's a state and the FEDS and the tribes

1029
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:18,360
Speaker 2: and it's everybody contributing to that process of questioning.

1030
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, I mean there's it's hard to imagine like

1031
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:33,800
Speaker 1: getting into this business from a planning point of view.

1032
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:38,920
Speaker 2: Oh, it's nuts. It's it's so much more complicated, even

1033
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 2: iron which some people think iron simple. I'm like, no,

1034
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:46,520
Speaker 2: nothing is simple. Mining is complicated. It's we I hate

1035
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:49,640
Speaker 2: the image of the pickaxe and shovel. I want to

1036
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 2: throw that pickaxe at people when I see that as

1037
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:55,280
Speaker 2: a logo because I'm like, we are not We are

1038
01:03:55,360 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 2: not that simple. We are highly technical. Know for people

1039
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 2: that are super into technology and or just stem stuff

1040
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:07,120
Speaker 2: like oh my god, go into mining, it is the

1041
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:09,960
Speaker 2: engineering is insane. I'm sure when you talk to that

1042
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 2: student from Colorado School of Minds, you start asking what

1043
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:15,400
Speaker 2: they're learning in their classes and you're like, oh, oh,

1044
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:18,920
Speaker 2: this is not this is not what I thought. I

1045
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 2: know that's how it was for me getting into mining.

1046
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:24,280
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's definitely why I'm on the question asking

1047
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:25,040
Speaker 1: side of things.

1048
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:30,120
Speaker 2: I mean, I love it. It's a water resources person

1049
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 2: to get to do geochemistry and understand hydrogeology and all

1050
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:37,960
Speaker 2: of the you know, in the surface water hydrology stuff

1051
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 2: like it was it was awesome. And now you know,

1052
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:42,680
Speaker 2: in this role getting to kind of look at all

1053
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:45,680
Speaker 2: these different projects and learn about them. And like I said,

1054
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:50,360
Speaker 2: living here where the projects are not that far away,

1055
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:51,920
Speaker 2: it's a it's a cool place to be as a

1056
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:56,800
Speaker 2: water resources scientist to just better learn this stuff because

1057
01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:00,320
Speaker 2: I want clean energy to happen. And I know takes

1058
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:02,640
Speaker 2: a ton of copper, and more than a ton of copper,

1059
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 2: takes a lot of copper and how do we how

1060
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:09,840
Speaker 2: do we get that? What does that even look like.

1061
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it's something I can kind of struggle with

1062
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:17,720
Speaker 1: as well. When we talk about like the not in

1063
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 1: my backyard type of mindset, I would definitely be a

1064
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:27,800
Speaker 1: kick the can down the road type of person, like,

1065
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:32,560
Speaker 1: there's got to be something better to make me one

1066
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:35,760
Speaker 1: hundred percent sure that'll come up in the future. But

1067
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:40,160
Speaker 1: like I love hunting in Sonora, Mexico, And when I

1068
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:46,280
Speaker 1: go down to Sonora, in the background of almost every

1069
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:51,480
Speaker 1: moment of the day, you just hear explosions going off

1070
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:53,520
Speaker 1: in the copper minds.

1071
01:05:54,160 --> 01:05:58,760
Speaker 2: Really, yeah, that one definite advantage of an underground mine

1072
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:01,920
Speaker 2: is having it. But the four hundred foot crown pillar

1073
01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:04,000
Speaker 2: at the top of the mine, there's a lot of

1074
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:06,840
Speaker 2: noise absorption happening in four hundred feet of rock.

1075
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:08,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1076
01:06:08,120 --> 01:06:11,320
Speaker 2: Granted, granted that makes beautiful countertops. Not that I'm trying

1077
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 2: to sell countertops. However, we do have companies selling it,

1078
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:20,160
Speaker 2: no and not. I mean, so the noise is a concern.

1079
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:22,040
Speaker 2: You know. The other thing is Twin worked with the

1080
01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:26,480
Speaker 2: Dark Skies folks to develop them for the processing plant

1081
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:30,959
Speaker 2: and the dry stack facility a dark Sky's friendly lighting plan,

1082
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:33,640
Speaker 2: because that's the other you know issue, it's the noise,

1083
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:37,840
Speaker 2: and what's the potential light because you don't want light pollution, which, frankly,

1084
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:39,760
Speaker 2: I wish every city had to work with the dark

1085
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:43,600
Speaker 2: Skies folks to figure out a lighting plan for every

1086
01:06:43,720 --> 01:06:48,120
Speaker 2: everything in this country. But you know, so that's those

1087
01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:50,400
Speaker 2: are the other things that have to be evaluated through

1088
01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:53,840
Speaker 2: environmental review. Is we don't we don't want to hear

1089
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 2: the mine. We don't want to drive from a distance

1090
01:06:57,760 --> 01:06:59,920
Speaker 2: and see, I mean it's a little weird. There's a

1091
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:01,840
Speaker 2: so you're already going to see the city of Ely

1092
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:04,479
Speaker 2: right there, but you don't want to see the mine

1093
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:07,880
Speaker 2: next door to it. So it's it's evaluating all of

1094
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:11,240
Speaker 2: those things, you know, environmental review, and valuate socioeconomic make

1095
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:16,560
Speaker 2: sure there's environmental justices taken into consideration. There's just all

1096
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:21,520
Speaker 2: of those different factors because we didn't always have this process.

1097
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:25,720
Speaker 2: It's and we had mines going places where knowing how

1098
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:29,920
Speaker 2: to stay, and they left and they you know, did

1099
01:07:31,560 --> 01:07:33,360
Speaker 2: they did things that make it a lot harder to

1100
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:37,520
Speaker 2: open the mind today, even for the best intentioned folks.

1101
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean, you know there's always a trade too.

1102
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:50,040
Speaker 1: You know a lot of people use the reclaim coal

1103
01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:54,200
Speaker 1: land in West Virginia as an example, and I hunted

1104
01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:57,800
Speaker 1: on some of that this spring for turkeys, and to me,

1105
01:07:57,880 --> 01:08:00,640
Speaker 1: it's like gorgeous woods. You know, I'm not a deciduous

1106
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:03,680
Speaker 1: tree guy. You know, I grew up with pines, right,

1107
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:08,640
Speaker 1: and so I'm always blown away by green and diversity.

1108
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:14,120
Speaker 1: But you know, there was like, yeah, a trade off

1109
01:08:14,120 --> 01:08:17,799
Speaker 1: there right where it was like when we scraped this mountain,

1110
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:23,559
Speaker 1: nothing was going to live here for you know, thirty years,

1111
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:29,840
Speaker 1: sixty years repla it, yep, yeah, and until that reclamation

1112
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:31,080
Speaker 1: process happens.

1113
01:08:32,320 --> 01:08:35,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's that's why Minnesota also requires you have

1114
01:08:35,160 --> 01:08:38,160
Speaker 2: ten year standards for reclamation. So by ten years it

1115
01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:42,000
Speaker 2: has to be like reclaimed. So you have one year,

1116
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:45,760
Speaker 2: you have one, three, five, and ten year numbers that

1117
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:49,320
Speaker 2: you have to meet for percent cover and for native vegetation.

1118
01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:54,920
Speaker 1: And that's but I guess what I'm saying is is

1119
01:08:54,960 --> 01:09:02,240
Speaker 1: like we as like the consumer taxpayer, yeah, environmentalist that

1120
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:10,360
Speaker 1: consumes batteries left and right, Like knowing, like really knowing

1121
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:13,200
Speaker 1: what the trade off is, Like what are we going

1122
01:09:13,280 --> 01:09:17,439
Speaker 1: to get for what we're giving up? Is hard to

1123
01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:20,400
Speaker 1: find a lot of times because we're.

1124
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:23,960
Speaker 2: So we're so shielded from it, you know. It's like

1125
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:25,680
Speaker 2: I said, I grew up on a small farm and

1126
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:28,960
Speaker 2: my dad had a meat processing plant. I couldn't hide

1127
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:31,800
Speaker 2: from where meat came from. I had, you know, and

1128
01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:35,720
Speaker 2: he was a big hunter, and he would if he

1129
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:37,880
Speaker 2: was still alive, he'd be ecstatic I was doing something

1130
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:41,880
Speaker 2: like this with someone like you. But it's so when

1131
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:46,160
Speaker 2: we ate food, we always knew what it was, except

1132
01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:48,120
Speaker 2: for when my dad told me that rabbit was chicken,

1133
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:51,360
Speaker 2: so that I didn't cry. That was different, but it

1134
01:09:51,520 --> 01:09:54,800
Speaker 2: was you knew it because it was in your in

1135
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:56,479
Speaker 2: your world, and you know. One of the things I

1136
01:09:56,520 --> 01:09:58,120
Speaker 2: love about living on the Iron Range is for me

1137
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:00,559
Speaker 2: to go get groceries. I drive past an open mine.

1138
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 2: It's eight and a half miles long. I see an

1139
01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:05,800
Speaker 2: open pit mine. I know where my steel comes from,

1140
01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:09,720
Speaker 2: and I know what that means to the earth, and

1141
01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:13,120
Speaker 2: we don't. It's one of the things I love about

1142
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:16,400
Speaker 2: living in rural America is that you know this stuff,

1143
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:20,679
Speaker 2: not just on an intellectual level, but on a visceral level.

1144
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:24,320
Speaker 2: And I think it makes you better at taking care

1145
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:28,000
Speaker 2: of the stuff you have. We are super disconnected from stuff,

1146
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:31,040
Speaker 2: and we don't always understand there's a cost to everything.

1147
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:36,519
Speaker 2: You know, recycling sounds great, but recycling facilities need air

1148
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:39,240
Speaker 2: permits and need water permits, and need has waste licenses

1149
01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:42,800
Speaker 2: and need all of that. So there's a cost to recycling.

1150
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:46,360
Speaker 2: There's a cost to flipping on a light switch. There's

1151
01:10:46,479 --> 01:10:50,000
Speaker 2: just all these things, and we were so shielded from

1152
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:53,840
Speaker 2: that for the most part, you know, And I think

1153
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:56,040
Speaker 2: it makes us sloppy as consumers, and I think it

1154
01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:59,040
Speaker 2: just makes us sloppy as citizens tut to not be

1155
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:03,040
Speaker 2: fully engaged in where stuff comes from. I live in

1156
01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:05,920
Speaker 2: a big logging area too. It's the same thing. I

1157
01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:08,559
Speaker 2: know where pulp and paper comes from because before they

1158
01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:11,920
Speaker 2: fix the scrubber systems, it used to smell like sauerkraut

1159
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:15,360
Speaker 2: in that town, and not great sauer kraut, Like I'm Polish,

1160
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:17,200
Speaker 2: I should like to smell a sauerkrout, but it.

1161
01:11:17,160 --> 01:11:20,160
Speaker 1: Was not that kind, that kind.

1162
01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:22,800
Speaker 2: But I knew where paper came from. And I still

1163
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:26,240
Speaker 2: see logging trucks on the daily where I live, and

1164
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:28,640
Speaker 2: I wish i'd never seen final destination. But that's a

1165
01:11:28,680 --> 01:11:33,479
Speaker 2: different But it's so it's like, you know, that's all

1166
01:11:33,479 --> 01:11:34,960
Speaker 2: of the times I try to talk to a lot

1167
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:39,800
Speaker 2: of folks in the urban areas because they are disconnected.

1168
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:42,799
Speaker 2: And Minnesota is a huge farming state, and yet people

1169
01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:46,840
Speaker 2: don't know that American crystal sugar packets are from sugar

1170
01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:50,800
Speaker 2: beets grown in western Minnesota. And like just making that

1171
01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:54,519
Speaker 2: connection between the land. The land gives us everything. The

1172
01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:57,040
Speaker 2: land gives us our food, the land gives us our clothes,

1173
01:11:57,080 --> 01:11:59,000
Speaker 2: the land gives us our paper, the land gives us

1174
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:02,160
Speaker 2: our metals. We should know what that cost is to

1175
01:12:02,200 --> 01:12:06,120
Speaker 2: the land. And we've we've grown separate in so many

1176
01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:09,840
Speaker 2: areas and we we can't be that way because it

1177
01:12:09,880 --> 01:12:11,000
Speaker 2: makes us sloppy.

1178
01:12:11,640 --> 01:12:14,920
Speaker 1: Julie, sound like you would sign up for my idea

1179
01:12:15,080 --> 01:12:17,400
Speaker 1: that when you go into the grocery store before you

1180
01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:19,040
Speaker 1: put something in your cart and you have to watch

1181
01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:20,160
Speaker 1: an educational video.

1182
01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:26,120
Speaker 2: I love that idea. I mean, honestly, like, having to

1183
01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:28,240
Speaker 2: work in a meat processing plant as a kid is

1184
01:12:28,280 --> 01:12:31,000
Speaker 2: probably illegal, but beyond my dad's gone now so they

1185
01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:33,920
Speaker 2: can't do anything about it. But I knew what a

1186
01:12:33,960 --> 01:12:36,360
Speaker 2: hanging cow looked like. I knew what a hanging pig

1187
01:12:36,439 --> 01:12:41,800
Speaker 2: look like like. Bacon is delicious, but I understand what

1188
01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:44,559
Speaker 2: and I understand what it takes to grow them right,

1189
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:48,719
Speaker 2: like bottle feeding calves and you know, chasing piglets around

1190
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:50,920
Speaker 2: so that we could cut off their tails because they're

1191
01:12:50,960 --> 01:12:53,439
Speaker 2: like puppies and they eat each other. They're just anyways,

1192
01:12:53,479 --> 01:12:58,240
Speaker 2: Pigs are just pigs are fun. But like, yes, I

1193
01:12:58,280 --> 01:13:00,360
Speaker 2: do think we should have to watch videos because I

1194
01:13:00,360 --> 01:13:03,360
Speaker 2: think we should understand one the distance much of our

1195
01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:07,040
Speaker 2: food is traveled. Like do we need to eat food

1196
01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:09,240
Speaker 2: that has traveled that far? Like what is a carbon

1197
01:13:09,240 --> 01:13:12,840
Speaker 2: footprint of your diet? Like we should be thinking about

1198
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:15,240
Speaker 2: those things and we should be asking the ethical It's

1199
01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:16,679
Speaker 2: one of the reasons my hunt you, Like I said,

1200
01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:20,640
Speaker 2: my husband hunts and fishes. I feel good about the

1201
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:25,280
Speaker 2: walleye we eat because I know he's not he hates

1202
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:29,080
Speaker 2: wanton waste. I know he's an ethical like angler. I

1203
01:13:29,120 --> 01:13:32,360
Speaker 2: know he's an ethical hunter. He cares for the animal

1204
01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:36,559
Speaker 2: and that's important to me. And we just we should

1205
01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:38,800
Speaker 2: be like that with what we do upon the earth.

1206
01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:42,840
Speaker 2: Because we're one human. Our impact should be small and

1207
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:44,360
Speaker 2: it's not always.

1208
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:49,840
Speaker 1: It is not always. Uh, Julie, Well, we're gonna have

1209
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:56,800
Speaker 1: to chat with you again. That's in a month, all right.

1210
01:13:57,960 --> 01:14:00,880
Speaker 1: So Well, here's a tip for you. Don't wear a

1211
01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:08,679
Speaker 1: felt cowboy hat. It's it's not the season. Duly noted

1212
01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:14,880
Speaker 1: my buddy's mom will like attempt to get up and

1213
01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:17,880
Speaker 1: walk across a restaurant to tell somebody that you don't

1214
01:14:17,880 --> 01:14:19,719
Speaker 1: wear a felt cowboy hat in the summer.

1215
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:21,760
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's love.

1216
01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:26,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but no, thank you so much for expanding

1217
01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:29,120
Speaker 1: our knowledge on this subject. I'd love to get in

1218
01:14:29,160 --> 01:14:34,280
Speaker 1: touch with you again once we see how some of

1219
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:39,759
Speaker 1: these things move. Yeah, and I'm sure we'll get something

1220
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:44,880
Speaker 1: out of Secretary of Rawlins again here in the near

1221
01:14:44,960 --> 01:14:49,080
Speaker 1: future from the sounds of it, and maybe we can

1222
01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:52,080
Speaker 1: get back on for an update of what the process

1223
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:52,519
Speaker 1: is then.

1224
01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:57,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd be great. I thank you so much for this.

1225
01:14:56,800 --> 01:14:58,120
Speaker 2: Was this was a delight.

1226
01:14:58,479 --> 01:15:02,320
Speaker 1: Oh good, No, thank you very much much. Is Is

1227
01:15:02,360 --> 01:15:07,759
Speaker 1: there any resources that that you'd like to point people

1228
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:12,519
Speaker 1: to I use on the hunt and angland side of things.

1229
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:15,320
Speaker 1: I always talk about Sportsman for the Boundary Waters Canoe area.

1230
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:21,599
Speaker 1: Would what would your if if you wanted to show

1231
01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:25,720
Speaker 1: people how to get some more information, uh, do some

1232
01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:28,679
Speaker 1: of their own research on on this project? Where where

1233
01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:30,040
Speaker 1: would a place like that exist?

1234
01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:32,400
Speaker 2: So I would tell folks just to go to the

1235
01:15:32,439 --> 01:15:36,160
Speaker 2: Mining Minnesota dot com website. So we have our resources

1236
01:15:36,160 --> 01:15:40,320
Speaker 2: page that we're working on building out further with different things.

1237
01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:43,080
Speaker 2: We are working on some educational materials right now, talking

1238
01:15:43,080 --> 01:15:47,080
Speaker 2: about watersheds and some different things. So just our website

1239
01:15:47,080 --> 01:15:48,920
Speaker 2: to start with, and my ted x is on there.

1240
01:15:49,280 --> 01:15:51,280
Speaker 2: There's some other talks I've given that are on there,

1241
01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:54,719
Speaker 2: and then go right to the Twin Metals website. I

1242
01:15:54,760 --> 01:15:58,040
Speaker 2: think it's it's not it's twin dash Metals dot com.

1243
01:15:58,360 --> 01:16:01,360
Speaker 2: I screw that up every time, but just go right

1244
01:16:01,400 --> 01:16:04,639
Speaker 2: to the site. Their mind plan of operations they submitted

1245
01:16:05,240 --> 01:16:08,160
Speaker 2: is on their back from twenty nineteen. Like I mentioned,

1246
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:10,080
Speaker 2: they don't currently have a project, but if you want

1247
01:16:10,080 --> 01:16:13,400
Speaker 2: to see what they propose in twenty nineteen, just go

1248
01:16:13,439 --> 01:16:16,479
Speaker 2: read it and go scope out the resources directly on

1249
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:17,040
Speaker 2: the page.

1250
01:16:17,439 --> 01:16:17,919
Speaker 1: Excellent.

1251
01:16:18,120 --> 01:16:21,400
Speaker 2: Well, and thank you on LinkedIn and Facebook. There we go. Sorry,

1252
01:16:21,439 --> 01:16:24,479
Speaker 2: well there you got to hear my communications coworker being

1253
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:27,120
Speaker 2: like Lucas, I can't believe you forgot to tell.

1254
01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:30,120
Speaker 1: People there's too much to keep up with. You know,

1255
01:16:30,479 --> 01:16:35,599
Speaker 1: I have empathy forgetting things on that that side of deals.

1256
01:16:35,640 --> 01:16:39,800
Speaker 1: But yeah, everybody, thank you so much for listening. If

1257
01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:46,040
Speaker 1: you have questions for Julie, please write into askcl that's

1258
01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:50,960
Speaker 1: askcal at themeeater dot com. I will compile them and

1259
01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:56,160
Speaker 1: we can have Julie back on again, or I can

1260
01:16:57,360 --> 01:16:59,519
Speaker 1: have her answer them and I'll read them back to you,

1261
01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:02,639
Speaker 1: whatever you prefer. So thank you so much for listening.

1262
01:17:03,240 --> 01:17:05,080
Speaker 1: Uh pleas know what's going on in your neck of

1263
01:17:05,120 --> 01:17:07,120
Speaker 1: the woods, and we'll talk to you again next week.

1264
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:10,240
Speaker 2: H