Speaker 1: Hey fam Today, on the bright Side, we are unpacking
Speaker 1: the ghosting phenomenon and answering all your questions about what
Speaker 1: to do when it happens to you, Because what's scarier
Speaker 1: than being left on red?
Speaker 2: Y'all.
Speaker 1: Our guide on this journey through scary dating etiquette is
Speaker 1: dating coach and bright Side bestie, Sabrina Zohar. It's Tuesday,
Speaker 1: October twenty ninth. I'm Simone Boyce, I'm.
Speaker 2: Danielle Robe and this is the bright Side from Hello Sunshine,
Speaker 2: a daily show where we come together to share women's stories,
Speaker 2: to laugh, learn and brighten your day. So it's officially
Speaker 2: spooky season and we couldn't think of a better time
Speaker 2: to dive into one of the creepiest trends in dating
Speaker 2: ghosting mm hmm.
Speaker 1: It is the ultimate disappearing act. For those who don't know,
Speaker 1: ghosting is when someone just vanishes from your life without
Speaker 1: a trace, no texts, no calls, no explanations. It's like
Speaker 1: they were never there. But it just leaves you feeling
Speaker 1: all sorts of confused.
Speaker 2: It's so scary, it's really really freaky, and we're gonna
Speaker 2: try and sort out all that confusion.
Speaker 3: Today.
Speaker 2: You might remember our next guest Sabrina Zohar, from a
Speaker 2: past episode where we unpacked relationship red flags. Well, she's
Speaker 2: back for another round of Catching Feelings, where we dig
Speaker 2: into all things dating and relationships.
Speaker 1: And lucky for us, Sabrina is back to help us
Speaker 1: decode why people ghost, whether it's ever permissible, and we'll
Speaker 1: chat about some classic ghosting scenarios and hopefully give you
Speaker 1: some answers as to how to navigate this.
Speaker 2: I think we have to discuss just how pervasive this
Speaker 2: is because Forbes magazine did a survey that found that
Speaker 2: seventy six percent of people dating are affected by ghosting.
Speaker 1: Well, with those kind of numbers, I think we should
Speaker 1: just get into it. Sabrina Zohar, welcome back to the
Speaker 1: bright Side.
Speaker 3: Hey, girls, have sonsity to be back.
Speaker 1: It's so fun to have you in person.
Speaker 3: I am so excited. We're gonna have a good talk today.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Okay, So today we're diving into a topic
Speaker 2: that everybody and their mama has an opinion on, including
Speaker 2: my mama ghosting.
Speaker 3: Boo, Happy Halloween.
Speaker 2: So you've talked about this topic a ton on The
Speaker 2: Sabrina Zohar Show, and I think more broadly too, what
Speaker 2: we're talking about is dating etiquette.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you know. Here's the thing with ghosting is,
Speaker 3: to your point, everyone has an opinion on it, everyone
Speaker 3: has a thought on it, and everybody has a definition
Speaker 3: on it. And so for me, when I look at ghosting,
Speaker 3: it's like I'm looking at objectively as an abrupt ending
Speaker 3: in the middle of a relationship. That's just the definition.
Speaker 3: If we're going to look it up, I'm like, you know,
Speaker 3: whatever the fucks website, But what we really want to
Speaker 3: start to look at is like, wait a minute. There's
Speaker 3: a lot of nuance though, because we have to remember too.
Speaker 3: If we just go around and say, like I just
Speaker 3: keep getting ghosted, I keep getting ghosted, it's like, what
Speaker 3: do I think that's doing to your mental health? What
Speaker 3: do you think that's doing to your psyche? And then
Speaker 3: we have to kind of look and say, what's my
Speaker 3: part in this? What's the other person? There's just a
Speaker 3: lot of variables. So I'm excited for us today to
Speaker 3: at least be able to just click ref I some
Speaker 3: things and hopefully release some of the tension and anxiety
Speaker 3: that comes with dating, because I think there's so much
Speaker 3: fear that they're gonna get ghosted that inadvertently you're like, oh,
Speaker 3: which comes first to the chicken or the egg? Well,
Speaker 3: it kind of just like popped up.
Speaker 2: I remember all of a sudden, my girlfriends were talking
Speaker 2: about being ghosted, and I don't know if it was
Speaker 2: happening and we just didn't have a term for it,
Speaker 2: or if all of a sudden it started happening.
Speaker 3: My first ghosting experience happened when I was twenty and
Speaker 3: I lived in New York, so many moments ago, and
Speaker 3: online dating had just become a thing, and so it
Speaker 3: was like, Okay, I'd been dating this guy for six weeks.
Speaker 3: We had been intimate, like we were seeing each other,
Speaker 3: and that night we had plans to go out. And
Speaker 3: I saw him in the morning, like we were walking
Speaker 3: in the city and I saw him and I was
Speaker 3: with my friends, and he gave me this big hug
Speaker 3: and kiss. Babe, I can't wait to see you tonight.
Speaker 3: I'm so excited. I'm gonna meet all your friends. And
Speaker 3: I never heard from the guy again, like never, Like
Speaker 3: I went to that Psycho and I went to the party.
Speaker 3: I remember, like I took myself out to dinner and
Speaker 3: text him like, hey, babe, borre it out, I'll see
Speaker 3: you in a bit and like nothing, and then just
Speaker 3: the whole night being like I'm so confused what happened.
Speaker 3: And then maybe two weeks later I saw him on
Speaker 3: the street and it's like you live in my neighborhood,
Speaker 3: Like plan this a little bit better. And I just
Speaker 3: remember I flicked him off when I walked by and
Speaker 3: I just called him. I just screamed out I was
Speaker 3: a coward and I crossed the street. And then I
Speaker 3: got a text from him and he was like, I apologize.
Speaker 3: What I did was cowardice. I owe you an explanation.
Speaker 3: Never got that explanation, but really at the time, I
Speaker 3: just remember being like I don't understand this. And that
Speaker 3: was my first time saying like, oh so this is ghosting,
Speaker 3: got it? And then it kept happening or like what's that?
Speaker 3: Not really? No, I'm for me. It happened to maybe
Speaker 3: a couple more times than these were real people that
Speaker 3: like I met in person, and like we see higher
Speaker 3: opportunity for ghosting is usually when people come in real quick,
Speaker 3: they leave real quick. And so my mom always to say,
Speaker 3: when you started a hundred, where else are you going
Speaker 3: to go? And so when we see that ghosting behavior
Speaker 3: really comes because like if we look at it psychologically, right,
Speaker 3: if we really peel back the layers and like what
Speaker 3: is ghosting and why do people do it? A lot
Speaker 3: of the times it's either like a fear of confrontation.
Speaker 3: A lot of people don't want to deal with somebody
Speaker 3: else's emotions. It could be emotional a availability like you're upset.
Speaker 3: I now have to deal with your being upset. I
Speaker 3: don't want to deal with that or this. It's easier,
Speaker 3: I don't owe you anything. It's like, okay, is that
Speaker 3: how you want to live your life? Because that's personally
Speaker 3: not how I want to live my life. So if
Speaker 3: I'm at least going to be talking to somebody or
Speaker 3: interacting with them and spending my time with this person,
Speaker 3: I'm going to let them know if I don't want
Speaker 3: to continue. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think also ghosting can happen whenever it's kind of
Speaker 1: like the simple, clean way to make a cut, like
Speaker 1: if you don't want to engage in a back and
Speaker 1: forth with that person about the reasons why it's not
Speaker 1: working out. I feel like some people choose ghosting because
Speaker 1: it seems like a more straightforward option.
Speaker 3: It goes back to like, oh, it's easier, and it's
Speaker 3: like okay. So here is my thoughts on ghosting when
Speaker 3: it comes to like proper dating etiquette. If there's a
Speaker 3: mutual fizzle, Like if I go on a date with
Speaker 3: somebody and they just never call me and I don't
Speaker 3: call them, I'm not going to say that person ghosted me.
Speaker 3: It's like, well, am either one of us reached out
Speaker 3: to each other. Yeah. If I've gone out with someone
Speaker 3: and they're like, hey, you know they text you at
Speaker 3: and iight like, hey, you know how to great time?
Speaker 3: Like I would love to see you again, and you're
Speaker 3: like yeah, yeah, let's keep in touch, and again no
Speaker 3: one texts each other. It's like cool, just no one
Speaker 3: ghosted each other. No one, just no one communicated. For me,
Speaker 3: where it comes into the like the word ghosting to
Speaker 3: me is the issue is when you have someone that's
Speaker 3: really trying to communicate with you, right, Like you're getting
Speaker 3: the text from someone being like, hey, I'm really confused
Speaker 3: what happened, Like just tell me what's going on. At
Speaker 3: that point, I'd rather someone just be like hey, I
Speaker 3: don't deal well with confrontation. I just want to let
Speaker 3: you know I'm done. I'm going to block your number
Speaker 3: because I can't handle this, right I Even my own partner,
Speaker 3: I've asked him have you had this? And he's like, oh,
Speaker 3: I've broken up with women and I get a barrage,
Speaker 3: like just berated with text.
Speaker 2: Right. I feel like this is not the nicest thing
Speaker 2: to say, but I'm going to say it anyways.
Speaker 3: Go on.
Speaker 2: Some of my girlfriends get ghosted and some of them don't,
Speaker 2: and I'm I don't know what that means. Can you
Speaker 2: elaborate on that, like is it their fault or is
Speaker 2: it the guys they're dating? Like I feel really confused
Speaker 2: by it, actually.
Speaker 3: Totally, And I want to be able to even before
Speaker 3: we start, like remove any shame and blame on anyone, Yeah,
Speaker 3: because I would never want anyone to feel like, oh god,
Speaker 3: is it my looked? What do I do? And it's
Speaker 3: like no, no, no, we can take accountability though, we can
Speaker 3: absolutely take ownership of what's my part in this? And
Speaker 3: what I see is like i'd be curious your friends
Speaker 3: that get ghosted. Have you seen a pattern that we
Speaker 3: see with the men, Like is it that they're all
Speaker 3: really charming at first? And call them a ton and
Speaker 3: text them a ton like do we notice? Because oftentimes
Speaker 3: what happens, especially with people that are love bombing, right,
Speaker 3: they'll come on strong. It's an unfortunate reality. But when
Speaker 3: people come on really strong like that, it's not about you,
Speaker 3: it's how they feel.
Speaker 2: So my one friend that I'm thinking about, she comes
Speaker 2: on really strong, and I think that's why she gets
Speaker 2: ghosted a lot. She freaks them out. And it's not
Speaker 2: in a way that feels like natural. It's it doesn't
Speaker 2: feel like, okay, we just really vibed.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think they feel the pressure well because we
Speaker 3: don't have to look and say are they she attaching
Speaker 3: to them or connecting to them? Ooh right? Those are
Speaker 3: question two very different circumstances. So if you're connecting to somebody,
Speaker 3: it takes time, It takes patience, it takes a trust
Speaker 3: you're building something right. It could take a few months
Speaker 3: to really be like, WHOA, we're really jiving because I
Speaker 3: see consistency, it's built over time. Whereas attaching to somebody
Speaker 3: really comes from how I could say it scinctly is
Speaker 3: want verse need Connecting is I want you in my life?
Speaker 3: I don't need you? Attaching is I need you? Otherwise
Speaker 3: I'm not going to be okay, And that comes from
Speaker 3: that fear of being abandoned, being rejected. The reality is
Speaker 3: when you're dating someone and you've come on strong like that,
Speaker 3: let's say you're really just showing up one hundred percent,
Speaker 3: it can be really, really off putting to someone else,
Speaker 3: because of course my thought would be, well, how could
Speaker 3: you think I'm so amazing? You don't really know me.
Speaker 3: And what I think a lot of the people could
Speaker 3: be picking up is her anxiety. And there might be
Speaker 3: saying I don't even want to bother because I'm going
Speaker 3: to get a thousand texts from this person as to
Speaker 3: why this didn't work, and to me, I'd rather just
Speaker 3: be out.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: That's where we have to stop and say, listen, it's
Speaker 3: no one's fault, it's no one to blame. But we
Speaker 3: have to be able to say, Okay, what is my
Speaker 3: common denominator in every circumstance, and if I continuously get ghosted,
Speaker 3: I need to look at the behavior that's being exhibited
Speaker 3: before that happens.
Speaker 2: I was shocked to read a Forbes survey that said
Speaker 2: that seventy six percent of people who are dating get ghosted,
Speaker 2: men and women they're equally likely to get ghosted forty
Speaker 2: four and forty seven percent. So men a little bit less.
Speaker 3: Have you reverend ghosted?
Speaker 2: No, But I'm going to be honest. I think you
Speaker 2: can get unlucky and get ghosted. You can run into somebody,
Speaker 2: and that's that is what it is. But I think
Speaker 2: I'm a over communicator in a healthy way that I
Speaker 2: think they would be embarrassed to ghost me because it'd
Speaker 2: be like, what a loser thing to do.
Speaker 3: It also could be a testament to the people that
Speaker 3: you're choosing as well, right, because if you're being a
Speaker 3: better buyer as well, like you're communicating, which means you're
Speaker 3: setting a precedence to them of like, here's the baseline
Speaker 3: of what I'm willing to accept, and here's how I
Speaker 3: want to be in a relationship. So that way off
Speaker 3: the bat, if you're coming in being like, hey, I'm communicative,
Speaker 3: I'm honest, I'm upfront, you're going to scare those people
Speaker 3: off real quick that are not able to do that
Speaker 3: because they can see I can't bullshit her, I can't
Speaker 3: pull the wool over her eyes. Versus when someone just
Speaker 3: oh my god, he was so charming and so amazing.
Speaker 3: It's like you could also be narcissistic, you know, like
Speaker 3: that might not be the best thing. And that's again
Speaker 3: where we have to look at because there's a higher
Speaker 3: propensity of you know, I don't know if you saw
Speaker 3: the meme of like the guy like the day before
Speaker 3: a guy goes Yeah, it's like, that's what I've been
Speaker 3: thinking about this whole conversation. Yeah, it's so like, you know,
Speaker 3: you're the love of my life and I've never met
Speaker 3: anyone like you. And it's like that's because those are
Speaker 3: the people. They are higher propensity to a ghost because again,
Speaker 3: it's not about you and your connection. It's about you
Speaker 3: make me feel this when I'm with you, so I
Speaker 3: like it. But the second this becomes intimate or there's
Speaker 3: a real connection, see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's really hard to identify when it's
Speaker 1: happening in the moment, Like I identify, okay, I have
Speaker 1: found myself a love bomber and this might lead to
Speaker 1: this sort of outcome. What are your tips for identifying
Speaker 1: these patterns in the moment or these traits in the moment.
Speaker 3: It's a great question. A couple things. One, we have
Speaker 3: to look at the pinch match the ouch and so
Speaker 3: you have such good things. It's like one of my
Speaker 3: favorites because we have to look and see is am
Speaker 3: I getting too much?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: Like, Okay, I don't know you, but yet a week
Speaker 3: after I met you, you saying that you're falling in
Speaker 3: love with me and you want to meet my friends
Speaker 3: and family. It's like, how would you know all of
Speaker 3: this about me? Like just because I walk by your
Speaker 3: house and say it's pretty, I don't expect you to
Speaker 3: throw me the keys. So that's the first thing. The
Speaker 3: second thing that we want to really look at is
Speaker 3: oftentimes when we go for the love bomber, we're very
Speaker 3: disconnected from her own body, and so we want to
Speaker 3: start to understand what are the sensations I'm feeling. Am
Speaker 3: I feeling a little like when I'm with them, am
Speaker 3: I feeling a little off? Like I was a dinner
Speaker 3: with my girlfriend last night and she was saying, how
Speaker 3: oh all these things? And then my partner Ryan and
Speaker 3: I were like just kind of looking at her being like, wait,
Speaker 3: are you are you sure that this is healthy? And
Speaker 3: then she stopped. She was like, huh, now you say it.
Speaker 3: My gut was feeling a little icky when he said
Speaker 3: some of these things, and she's like, yeah, I did notice.
Speaker 3: I actually got really anxious when he said this. And
Speaker 3: I was like, that's what we overlook because we're so
Speaker 3: excited to be chosen that we don't actually realize, Like,
Speaker 3: wait a minute, I'm self abandoning to be chosen and
Speaker 3: I'm not actually setting boundaries, which is Daniel kind of
Speaker 3: sounds like what you do of Hey, here's how I'm
Speaker 3: going to do things that will cut that right there.
Speaker 3: I'll say this, you said a boundary, and someone runs
Speaker 3: open the door for them and let them go. It
Speaker 3: is the best thing they could do for you, because
Speaker 3: you're not wasting your time.
Speaker 2: This one girlfriend that I'm thinking about does the opposite, Saverna.
Speaker 2: She just like when some guy goes she goes at.
Speaker 3: Him, and I'm like, no, he does.
Speaker 1: He's not going to make him respond Girlfriends, No, it's
Speaker 1: it's bad.
Speaker 3: What you're describing right now is often like the amygdala hijack,
Speaker 3: and it's a terrible term, but I'll go in it.
Speaker 3: And so what happens is like, okay, you're dating right
Speaker 3: when we get triggered. A trigger is a cue to
Speaker 3: your nervous system that you're in danger. So people really
Speaker 3: misuse that word and they'll be like, that triggered me.
Speaker 3: It's like, no, he punched you in the face. That's
Speaker 3: not a trigger. That's disrespect right like that. A trigger
Speaker 3: is a neutral action ary inaction. So it's a really
Speaker 3: good distinction. And when we get disregulated, prefrontal cortex shuts off.
Speaker 3: That's our decision making, our common sense. We go into
Speaker 3: the amygdalah, we go into that limbic system. And when
Speaker 3: we're in the limbic system, what she sees is challenge accepted.
Speaker 3: If I try harder, let me run after them, because
Speaker 3: maybe as a kid, that's what she was used to.
Speaker 3: She had to earn the love of a caregiver. The
Speaker 3: problem is you're not dating mom or dad because you're
Speaker 3: trying to replicate, and it's it's also a term called
Speaker 3: repetition compulsion. So we continue to date the parts of
Speaker 3: us that are essentially unhealed, hoping that if I date
Speaker 3: you and you're like my dad and you choose me,
Speaker 3: it'll heal everything I went through. And all it does
Speaker 3: is it keeps her running and keeps her going because
Speaker 3: she's so disconnected from herself that she's just self abandoning
Speaker 3: and running after somebody because she's not really choosing herself.
Speaker 2: And I think I want to also be clear, like
Speaker 2: I've had guys not be interested in me, Like it's
Speaker 2: that that hurts too, But it's different than being ghosted.
Speaker 3: Because cohasting is just because it leaves you in your
Speaker 3: own thoughts, right, Like the person receiving the ghosting is
Speaker 3: sitting there ruminating, spiraling, checking every text doesn't understand because
Speaker 3: you're blind signing somebody.
Speaker 2: I think it says so much more about them, like
Speaker 2: can't like I don't know if guys have this, but
Speaker 2: my girlfriends basically have this one paragraph text that we
Speaker 2: all send around. And if you go on a date
Speaker 2: and it's you don't feel anything, we're like okay, like
Speaker 2: send the text and it's just says hey, you know,
Speaker 2: like it's five lines and it's really respectful and that's it.
Speaker 2: It's pretty easy to send that text. So when you
Speaker 2: don't want to send that to me, that signals like
Speaker 2: way more emotional issues.
Speaker 1: Men don't know how to communicate. I mean, they haven't
Speaker 1: been conditioned or socialized to number one, sit with their
Speaker 1: feelings and embrace their feelings. So how can we expect
Speaker 1: them to be able to communicate them to other people.
Speaker 3: We have to really look at who taught us, right,
Speaker 3: like who taught us all of this?
Speaker 1: We need to take a short break, but we'll be
Speaker 1: right back with Sabrina Zohar.
Speaker 3: And we're back with dating coach Sabrina Zohar.
Speaker 2: Okay, so we want to throw out some scenarios for you,
Speaker 2: because I love the nuance that you have in ghosting.
Speaker 2: If you have a one night stand with someone and
Speaker 2: you don't hear back from them, is that considered ghosting?
Speaker 3: That's a toughie. I would say, contingent upon a few things. One,
Speaker 3: did you discuss anything before you left? Right, Like, did
Speaker 3: you leave saying hey, I'd really like to see you again.
Speaker 3: Did the other person agree with that? And then you
Speaker 3: text them the next day and you never hear from
Speaker 3: them again. That's a shitty feeling. Would I say that
Speaker 3: that person ghosted you? Potentially? I would also then just
Speaker 3: say they're probably just not picking up what you're putting down,
Speaker 3: because what are they going to say the next day? Hey,
Speaker 3: this was great, but like cause, okay, let's also bear
Speaker 3: in mind most people don't want to be honest because okay,
Speaker 3: let's say you are intimate, like my partner and I.
Speaker 3: We were intimate the first date, and I was very
Speaker 3: I left being like, listen, if I don't hear from
Speaker 3: this guy again, like what are I'm an adult. I
Speaker 3: made a decision, and he did. He text me the
Speaker 3: next day. But we have to be aware as well
Speaker 3: of like, if I'm going to make that decision, then
Speaker 3: I'm also going to know that there is a possibility
Speaker 3: that this doesn't work out. And the more the less
Speaker 3: personal I take it of, like, well he ghosted me,
Speaker 3: it's like or this guy's not for me, right, like,
Speaker 3: or this person's just not my person, or I had
Speaker 3: an experience exactly. I was walking away with that what
Speaker 3: a fun night, right, Like I've had nights where I'm like,
Speaker 3: this was great, and I the guy I never heard
Speaker 3: from them again. I'm like, okay, so I think that
Speaker 3: there's to me. I try to avoid even just using
Speaker 3: like he ghosted me or she ghosted me, because I'm like,
Speaker 3: it's just messes with your psyche because then you just
Speaker 3: think what's wrong with me?
Speaker 1: Well comes back to patterns, and I think that's such
Speaker 1: a key word in this conversation. You know, the patterns
Speaker 1: that we need to identify in other people and the
Speaker 1: ones we need to identify in ourselves.
Speaker 3: One hundred percent, and then really being cognizant and aware
Speaker 3: of how am I presenting myself?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Am I being a better buyer? Am I really putting
Speaker 3: myself out there in the appropriate ways? Or am I
Speaker 3: having all these similar experiences like your girlfriend who just
Speaker 3: is stuck in her loop? And if we actually zoomed out,
Speaker 3: it's not that she's to blame or that she's at fault,
Speaker 3: but she can be accountable for what she's allowing into
Speaker 3: her life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, another scenario, if it's a first date, there's
Speaker 1: no kiss, no contact, but you don't hear from them.
Speaker 3: Again, is that a ghost to me? It's just not
Speaker 3: a ghost I for me? First date. That's why again
Speaker 3: we go back to take control of your life. Right?
Speaker 3: Did you guys see there was that that poor girl
Speaker 3: that went on the date and she made a TikTok
Speaker 3: saying like it was the short shortest first date of
Speaker 3: her life. And they went in and he literally before
Speaker 3: he even like said to the person, how many people?
Speaker 3: He said, listen, can we actually go outside? And he
Speaker 3: came in he said I'm sorry. I'm not feeling this.
Speaker 3: I don't want to waste your time, like I'm going
Speaker 3: to go whoa And she's crying and it's like and
Speaker 3: then you see everybody kind of saying and you're like, okay, well,
Speaker 3: how do you handle this?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: If you show up on a date, it's like, cool, yeah,
Speaker 3: I've done it. I have. Oh god, I can't tell
Speaker 3: you how many days have gone on that you in
Speaker 3: the minute you see the person walk in, you're like,
Speaker 3: all right, forty five minutes in amount, right, like, I'm here,
Speaker 3: I'm not going to say anything. But then to some people,
Speaker 3: they'd say, well, my time is worth something. I don't
Speaker 3: want to spend it with this person. I'd rather be honest.
Speaker 3: What do you think about that? I personally, I thought
Speaker 3: he could have handled it a little bit better. I
Speaker 3: think there's some decorum in the way that you tell someone.
Speaker 3: I would never walk in and be like you know what,
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I can't do this. It's like I would
Speaker 3: have sat down for a drink and been like, hey,
Speaker 3: I think you're fantastic. I don't think there's a connection here,
Speaker 3: so let's not waste any more of our time. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I think you can at least spend some time feels
Speaker 3: pretty harsh. Harsh. The thing with the first date is like,
Speaker 3: that's why I would say, don't go Like this girl
Speaker 3: went to dinner and she was like, I got all
Speaker 3: dressed up, and it's like, please don't do that, Like
Speaker 3: go to dinner the second date. Right, at least going
Speaker 3: a coffee date, going a hike, on a walk, go
Speaker 3: get whatever. I don't care, go on an erran, just
Speaker 3: do a vibe check to see do I want to
Speaker 3: spend more time with you or not. That's why to me,
Speaker 3: it doesn't really feel like ghosting because you go out.
Speaker 3: It's not a match.
Speaker 1: It's not a match.
Speaker 3: Next.
Speaker 2: I had a therapist tell me one time because like,
Speaker 2: I'm obsessive about my time and so dating is tough.
Speaker 2: And she was like, okay, you're going to set up
Speaker 2: four dates in a row at a coffee shop on
Speaker 2: a Saturday or Sunday.
Speaker 3: And I was like, that's horrible.
Speaker 2: I'm not doing that and she was like, it's the
Speaker 2: only way for you.
Speaker 3: What do you think about that? So for me, the
Speaker 3: way I dated personally was practical. So if I match
Speaker 3: with somebody online, I'm like, I have no idea who
Speaker 3: you are. I don't even know your I don't even
Speaker 3: know your middle name. I'm not going to give you
Speaker 3: an evening of my time. I'd be like cool, I'm
Speaker 3: about to like, I have to have to go to Arawon,
Speaker 3: have to go there, So why don't you meet me?
Speaker 3: We can sit outside have a quick catch up. So
Speaker 3: if you're like cool, on Saturday, I have an hour,
Speaker 3: why don't you meet me for a walk on the beach.
Speaker 3: I get my steps in, I get to take the dog,
Speaker 3: and I get to meet someone. If this works, yay,
Speaker 3: and if it doesn't, I go on with my day.
Speaker 3: You have control of your dating life, but there is
Speaker 3: a vulnerability that is required of like give a little,
Speaker 3: but also take control of your life, because we don't
Speaker 3: want the rigidity of the boundaries to be too inflexible
Speaker 3: to where it's like, well, then you're not going to
Speaker 3: ever meet anybody.
Speaker 2: Okay, what if you've been dating for a while but
Speaker 2: you haven't slept together yet.
Speaker 3: I think it goes yeah, I think intimacy or not.
Speaker 3: If you've spent time with somebody, you've been vulnerable. You've
Speaker 3: been like we're talking to me more than one or
Speaker 3: two dates like, especially after the second date, if you
Speaker 3: still haven't kissed and you text, I'm like, hey, I'd
Speaker 3: love to see you again, and they don't answer. You're like, okay,
Speaker 3: well whatever next. So for me, if you've spent time
Speaker 3: with somebody, at the very least, yeah, I do think
Speaker 3: it's quote unquote ode that you are respectful about that
Speaker 3: person's time of thank you for spending the time. It
Speaker 3: was really great. But this isn't a match, and I
Speaker 3: don't want to waste more of it.
Speaker 2: I have some friends who abide by your idea of ghosting,
Speaker 2: like if it's a date or two and no one
Speaker 2: kind of texts. I am so in the camp of like,
Speaker 2: just send the text that you like, just send it
Speaker 2: anyways you can send it.
Speaker 3: Listen. I think it won't be a ghoster if, Like
Speaker 3: for me, if I had a date. I remember when
Speaker 3: I was dating. If I had a date where I
Speaker 3: was just like not into the guy, and no one
Speaker 3: text after, no one text after, I didn't have to
Speaker 3: say anything. The times I would send it was when
Speaker 3: they would send a message after like hey I had
Speaker 3: a great time, I'd love to see you again. Then
Speaker 3: I would say, hey, I think you're lovely, this isn't
Speaker 3: a match personally, I agree. The only reason I say like, oh,
Speaker 3: it's not as sary is because if it doesn't happen,
Speaker 3: it's okay. Yeah, but I would prefer at least if
Speaker 3: somebody communicates, just tell someone take that in misery.
Speaker 2: I like that rule. If somebody texts, then you just
Speaker 2: send the text. If no one texts, then it's fine.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because if no one texts, you're both kind of
Speaker 3: like mutually understanding that. Like, I'm with that.
Speaker 2: I like that rule.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: What about if you are set up with someone by
Speaker 1: a mutual friend or coworker, so you were matched up,
Speaker 1: but you don't vibe with the match and they don't
Speaker 1: follow up with you.
Speaker 3: Is that a ghost? I don't think so. I think
Speaker 3: I said that's not mutual. Like, if you're not vibing,
Speaker 3: they're not vibing for me personally, if it's a friend
Speaker 3: group situation that you're gonna see this person again, just
Speaker 3: for the integrity of the group, right, say something like, hey,
Speaker 3: you're so cool. Just protect the integrity of your friend group. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: I want to get your take on some reasons why
Speaker 1: people reportedly ghost.
Speaker 3: This is according to Forbes.
Speaker 1: So the number one most common reason is there were
Speaker 1: different expectations, and number two it's because this person didn't
Speaker 1: like the other person's personality. What do you think about
Speaker 1: those two reasons? Does that sound accurate to you?
Speaker 3: Basically, I hate everything about you ghost no, I said.
Speaker 3: The minute you said, I was like, call bullshit. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not sure either. Yeah.
Speaker 3: To me, I'm like, that's just a lack of integrity
Speaker 3: in my opinion, Like, what do you mean lack of
Speaker 3: difference of expectations. It's like, so you think by not
Speaker 3: commune indicating you're doing your job, but with expectations.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's that people just have super low expectations for
Speaker 1: dating right now, like abysmally low expectations.
Speaker 3: It's tough. Was I'm not I was single because I
Speaker 3: think people will look at me and be like, oh,
Speaker 3: you have a partner, and like I just met him
Speaker 3: two years ago, like I was in the trenches with
Speaker 3: the rest of us, like I have. I dated in
Speaker 3: New York and LA for years, and like here is
Speaker 3: the reality. I was the common denominator of a lot
Speaker 3: of the reasons it didn't work out because I had
Speaker 3: either high expectations. I thought, well, if you're spending time
Speaker 3: with me, then you want me, and it was like, no,
Speaker 3: that doesn't mean anything. Or you're texting me every day
Speaker 3: that means you like me, and it's like, no, that
Speaker 3: person was automating those messages or was bored. That doesn't
Speaker 3: mean anything. And I think what we really have to
Speaker 3: see here is yes, does it gain? Like really is
Speaker 3: not immorant? I get that, but if we continue to
Speaker 3: enter in with like God, dating is so hard. Remember
Speaker 3: cognitive biases. If you go outside right now and you
Speaker 3: say I want a red car, all you're going to
Speaker 3: see is a red car because your brain wires it.
Speaker 3: So when I met my partner personally, I was like,
Speaker 3: I have no expectations, it doesn't matter. I'm just going
Speaker 3: to be present. And I remember just thinking in my
Speaker 3: head like, wow, he's very different than most of the
Speaker 3: men that I dated. If I hadn't done the work
Speaker 3: on myself to be aware of that, then I wouldn't
Speaker 3: have been at least honed in on who he was.
Speaker 3: But that also then came with me having to manage
Speaker 3: my own expectations. I love that it.
Speaker 2: Sounds like you took your ego out of the game entirely,
Speaker 2: which is so beautiful.
Speaker 3: How did you do it? A lot of challenging my
Speaker 3: own thoughts really, because when we first started to date
Speaker 3: and he wasn't a big texture, I was like, no,
Speaker 3: that's it. He doesn't like you. He just used you.
Speaker 3: He wanted your body, and it was like I had
Speaker 3: no facts to back that up. And then what I
Speaker 3: also did was I challenged myself to do things differently.
Speaker 3: So I was like, Okay, in the past, I wouldn't
Speaker 3: bring this up, and I was like, no, it's important
Speaker 3: that I do it. But first I sat with it
Speaker 3: and I saw, like, what's coming up for me? Is
Speaker 3: this my anxiety? Nope, this is a gut reaction that
Speaker 3: what he said really bothered me, or you know whatever.
Speaker 3: Like when I reached out to my partner to ask
Speaker 3: for more texting, he easily could have said no, and
Speaker 3: he did, but nonetheless, like he set a boundary and
Speaker 3: we communicated very clearly from the get so that my
Speaker 3: ego didn't have a place because my ego had never
Speaker 3: helped me. I just looked at this as like every date,
Speaker 3: third date, just to see if I want to have
Speaker 3: a fourth, fourth date, just to see if I want
Speaker 3: to have a fifth because when you're really present, you
Speaker 3: again can build a connection. You're connecting, you're connecting, you're
Speaker 3: not attaching to people, and I think that's the attachment
Speaker 3: part is where we get the ghosting aspect, because our
Speaker 3: attachments come into play and our attachment styles again, the
Speaker 3: love bombing and the coming on to me. Though Forbes,
Speaker 3: i'd love to know where they got the data. But
Speaker 3: if we're going to look at psychology as to why
Speaker 3: people ghost, it's not just because I didn't like their personality.
Speaker 3: It's like, so that's your reasoning, but you could still
Speaker 3: communicate that, yeah, hey, I think you're great. I just
Speaker 3: don't think this is a match.
Speaker 2: We need to take another quick break, but we'll be
Speaker 2: right back to our spooky conversation with dating coach Sabrina
Speaker 2: is Ohire, and we're back with Sabrina Zohire. So there
Speaker 2: was this idea that was purported by friends the series.
Speaker 2: It's actually not true, but it was like the idea
Speaker 2: that lobsters like regenerate and never die. They just like
Speaker 2: come back to life or their shells live on, and
Speaker 2: so a lot of girls will be like, oh, he's
Speaker 2: my lobster, Like he came back. You're rolling your eyes,
Speaker 2: But okay, here's my question for you in thinking about
Speaker 2: men as lobsters that they come back a lot of times,
Speaker 2: say that you've been ghosted and that person then reaches
Speaker 2: back out to you.
Speaker 3: What's the move? Oh, you get to decide what you
Speaker 3: want to do here. Now here's the reality. You're going
Speaker 3: to respond back? What changed that person goes? Did you want?
Speaker 3: You don't think they're going to do it again. It's
Speaker 3: one thing if you come back and you say, hey,
Speaker 3: I've been in therapy, I've done the work. Like if
Speaker 3: you just get like hey, you get bent like I
Speaker 3: am not even I am not even entertaining this, Like
Speaker 3: that's not even a blip on my screen, versus like, hey,
Speaker 3: you know, Danielle, I am so sorry. I was going
Speaker 3: through a lot and I didn't handle this the right way.
Speaker 3: Can I please make this up to you? I apologize.
Speaker 3: Then you get to decide if this is something you
Speaker 3: still want to pursue. Would I advise it? Probably not,
Speaker 3: because I want to know what transpired in that time
Speaker 3: that they ghosted you until they came back. Because for me,
Speaker 3: when I hear they always come back, it's like get
Speaker 3: better boundaries, have sterner boundaries, and that way they won't
Speaker 3: come back because I don't you go once, I'm not
Speaker 3: going to let you do that to me again.
Speaker 1: So we've talked a lot about all the different forms
Speaker 1: of ghosting, what it means, how it can manifest. This
Speaker 1: is the bright side. So we also want to talk
Speaker 1: about solutions. What do you think constitutes an empowered response
Speaker 1: to ghosting.
Speaker 3: Speaking up for yourself right, And that means it's a
Speaker 3: decision that you make from a regulated state. So if
Speaker 3: you're getting that text, it instantly disregulates you. Your sweating,
Speaker 3: you don't know what's going Oh, you're like spiraling in
Speaker 3: your thoughts. That's not going to be the good time
Speaker 3: to make a response because you're coming out of that
Speaker 3: limbic system of like oh my god, MoMA just came
Speaker 3: home or Dad just came back versus. We want to
Speaker 3: put some space, right, Like, we want to be able
Speaker 3: to put a in it in between that message and
Speaker 3: go regulate, Go for a walk, Go call a friend
Speaker 3: and talk to your therapist, go co regulate with somebody.
Speaker 3: Then when you come back, we can unpack because you
Speaker 3: have every right, like if that's your moment to say like, hey,
Speaker 3: what you did was incredibly hurtful to me. It actually
Speaker 3: really did impact me, and for that, I want to
Speaker 3: tell you I wish you all the best, but I
Speaker 3: have zero interest ever speaking to you again. Please don't
Speaker 3: contact me if that's the case, if somebody really hurt
Speaker 3: you versus if it wasn't a big deal and you're like, hey,
Speaker 3: thank you so much. Great to hear from you. I'm
Speaker 3: not interested in pursuing anything further. But I wish you
Speaker 3: all the best. You know what I should rephrase. I'm
Speaker 3: more wondering, like, what is an empowered response? Whenever someone
Speaker 3: ghosts you and you just you haven't heard from them,
Speaker 3: is the most empowered way to respond?
Speaker 1: Is it? Is it reaching out to them and like
Speaker 1: chastising them, Is it ghosting them back and like just
Speaker 1: not responding to them at all or reaching out to
Speaker 1: them at all?
Speaker 3: What is the best path way to handle the guests? Yeah, okay,
Speaker 3: I think give it a shot, right, Like if you're
Speaker 3: if you're like, Okay, I haven't heard from this person
Speaker 3: in three days, and it's like okay, but if I've
Speaker 3: hung out with this person, I'm going to reach out like, hey,
Speaker 3: I haven't heard from you or you Okay, if they
Speaker 3: don't answer that, maybe I would send one more if
Speaker 3: I depending again on like how long I've known this person,
Speaker 3: if I've slept with them and we were dating and
Speaker 3: you met my friends and family, Like I'm going to
Speaker 3: at least be like, yo, this is so not cool,
Speaker 3: Like I really don't appreciate that. I really hope that
Speaker 3: you would just contact me and we can talk about this.
Speaker 3: But if not, like, I'm going to take no answer
Speaker 3: as quite an answer to me. I think it's if
Speaker 3: you're going to speak your piece and say it, go be.
Speaker 3: Do not brate somebody, Do not send a thousand texts.
Speaker 3: It's like avoidant avoidant attachment style. They remove themselves because
Speaker 3: that makes them feel more regulated. So when we think
Speaker 3: about the nervous system and we're looking at like the
Speaker 3: attachment styles, right, you have the secure and then you
Speaker 3: have the insecure ones that are anxious, avoidant, disorganized. And
Speaker 3: so if we're thinking about somebody who's more anxious, that
Speaker 3: person wants the can you know I need you to
Speaker 3: tell me it's okay, give me an answer, right, So
Speaker 3: they're the people that are seeking you tell me I'm okay,
Speaker 3: validate me. The avoidant. On the other hand, when they
Speaker 3: remove themselves, that's they're regulating. Okay, I'm out. You continue
Speaker 3: to contact them. What you're doing is reaffirming to them, Oh,
Speaker 3: I made the best decision that was right for me,
Speaker 3: because they're disregularly. The more you come after, you're flushing
Speaker 3: them further back. So it's like, fine, say what you want,
Speaker 3: and then.
Speaker 1: Leave one final question for you. Okay, what's the best
Speaker 1: revenge for ghosting? Because if we're all being honest, that's
Speaker 1: what you want. Whenever you've been ghosted, whenever you've been abandoned,
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I just want to I want them
Speaker 1: to see me thriving. You know, I want them to
Speaker 1: see me dating this hot new person. I know this
Speaker 1: is so base human nature, but indulge me here.
Speaker 3: I will give What comes to mind first is what
Speaker 3: my dad always used to say to me whenever I
Speaker 3: had like an issue, and he would say, my love,
Speaker 3: the best revenge is success. Go focus on you. And
Speaker 3: to this day I always think that because it's like, sure,
Speaker 3: I could try to prove a point, but if I'm
Speaker 3: trying to prove a point too, if I'm doing first
Speaker 3: traps and I'm doing all these sexy photos. Then what
Speaker 3: I'm doing is I'm doing that because of someone else.
Speaker 3: I'm not actually doing that because I authentically want that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so somebody goes to you. The best revenge you can
Speaker 3: have is a difference. I'm not going to give you
Speaker 3: more importance than you deserve in myne life, and that
Speaker 3: to me is something I get to take control over.
Speaker 3: And that is the best revenge is me moving on
Speaker 3: from you.
Speaker 1: Sabrina. You did not disappoint me at all in that answer.
Speaker 1: That was so perfect, so perfect. Indifference is the best
Speaker 1: revenge truly.
Speaker 3: Because it allows you to move on, and it allows
Speaker 3: you to make space for somebody that's not going to
Speaker 3: ghost to you and treat you like this. Because every
Speaker 3: person that's listening to this is worthy and deserving of love,
Speaker 3: is worthy and deserving of having what they admire and desire.
Speaker 3: But it's about are you actually going to be the
Speaker 3: one that calls the shots on that or you can
Speaker 3: allow other people to do that.
Speaker 2: Thank you for sharing your time with us.
Speaker 3: You're so awesome.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Sabrina. We love you so much,
Speaker 1: love me two girls.
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2: Sabrina Zohar is a dating coach and host of the
Speaker 2: Sabrina Zohar.
Speaker 1: Show, That's It. For today's show, Tomorrow, It's Wellness Wednesday,
Speaker 1: and one of the Internet's favorite millennial therapists, doctor Sarah Kubrick,
Speaker 1: joins us to talk about navigating self loss and coming
Speaker 1: to terms with our identity. Join the conversation using hashtag
Speaker 1: the bright Side and connect with us on social media
Speaker 1: at Hello Sunshine on Instagram and at the bright Side
Speaker 1: Pod on TikTok oh, and feel free to tag us
Speaker 1: at Simone Voice and at Danielle Robe.
Speaker 2: Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: See you tomorrow, folks, Keep looking on the bright side.