WEBVTT - Laundry Done Right 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:15.796 Pushkin. 0:00:22.556 --> 0:00:27.116 We all here, so there's thirty five people here now 0:00:27.636 --> 0:00:29.996 thirty six so we're getting close. 0:00:30.676 --> 0:00:37.316 Okay, thank you. Every Wednesday afternoon, Pushkin Industries, the company 0:00:37.316 --> 0:00:40.756 that brings you this and many other audio delights, has 0:00:40.756 --> 0:00:44.356 a staff meeting. Not long ago, I asked if I 0:00:44.436 --> 0:00:47.796 could take over the meeting for a frank discussion of 0:00:47.876 --> 0:00:52.036 a very delicate subject, laundry. 0:00:53.236 --> 0:00:53.316 Now. 0:00:53.396 --> 0:00:56.476 I know there's been a lot of chatter around this 0:00:57.036 --> 0:01:00.596 podcast episode of mine, and there's two questions I keep hearing. 0:01:00.636 --> 0:01:03.396 One is is there a right answer? And the answer is, 0:01:03.436 --> 0:01:06.476 of course, is the right answer. There's always the right answer. 0:01:06.516 --> 0:01:10.516 With Revision's history on zoom, I can see all these 0:01:10.556 --> 0:01:13.396 faces looking at me, wondering where on earth am I 0:01:13.436 --> 0:01:16.596 going with this? Is there going to be laundry shaming? 0:01:16.676 --> 0:01:19.356 And the answer is yes, but the person being shamed 0:01:19.436 --> 0:01:23.996 is me. The whole reason I'm doing this episode is 0:01:24.036 --> 0:01:27.836 I became aware that my laundry practices were sorely deficient, 0:01:28.476 --> 0:01:32.196 and I wanted to understand why. I'm going to pick 0:01:32.196 --> 0:01:35.076 on a couple of people who were generous enough to 0:01:35.116 --> 0:01:37.956 share their detergent preferences with me, and I'm going to 0:01:37.996 --> 0:01:41.436 ask them a few short questions. John Schnarz, Maybe we 0:01:41.476 --> 0:01:46.476 should start with you, John John Schnarz, Pushkin's vice president 0:01:46.516 --> 0:01:51.116 of business development, sensitive, highly evolved, modern male, father to 0:01:51.316 --> 0:01:54.436 many small children. Do you have a top loading or 0:01:54.476 --> 0:01:56.276 front loading washing machine? 0:01:56.836 --> 0:01:57.156 Top? 0:01:57.996 --> 0:02:00.996 Oh? Interesting? Do you have the piston that comes up? 0:02:03.156 --> 0:02:05.756 I thought it was what is called a agitator. I 0:02:05.756 --> 0:02:09.276 believe by this point in my research, I knew a 0:02:09.316 --> 0:02:13.676 lot about washing machines and top loading machines are well, 0:02:14.076 --> 0:02:17.716 they're not good. I was embarrassed for John, a senior 0:02:17.756 --> 0:02:24.196 officer of Pushkin, should know better. Let's skip to Carrie. 0:02:25.996 --> 0:02:26.476 Thank you. 0:02:27.036 --> 0:02:31.276 Carrie Colon, one of our top people making audiobooks Whip Smart. 0:02:31.476 --> 0:02:35.036 If anyone could teach us something, it would be Carrie. Also, 0:02:35.116 --> 0:02:38.916 she's a mom, does a lot of laundry. What's your 0:02:39.196 --> 0:02:40.916 temperature use? Do you very temperature? 0:02:41.356 --> 0:02:43.796 I vary temperature based on instructions? 0:02:44.316 --> 0:02:47.716 What are these? So tell me those those particular protocols. 0:02:47.956 --> 0:02:50.436 Well, actually I should know. I'll back up. 0:02:50.516 --> 0:02:53.996 I go on normal wash, and so my washer will 0:02:53.996 --> 0:02:56.596 tell me. If I just say normal, it does its 0:02:56.756 --> 0:02:57.876 boooooop and. 0:02:57.836 --> 0:02:59.196 Then it comes out with whatever. 0:03:00.916 --> 0:03:01.476 The machine. 0:03:01.476 --> 0:03:04.396 I defer to the machine unless there's something that I 0:03:04.476 --> 0:03:07.396 think I'm supposed to pay special attention to in there. 0:03:07.876 --> 0:03:13.916 Yes, okay, thank you, it's been very helpful. What was 0:03:13.956 --> 0:03:17.556 I thinking looking back? I don't know. I didn't really 0:03:17.596 --> 0:03:20.956 explain myself. I just crashed the staff meeting to ask 0:03:21.036 --> 0:03:23.916 people about their laundry habits in the hopes that the 0:03:23.956 --> 0:03:27.196 senior Pushkin leadership would teach the younger people on our 0:03:27.236 --> 0:03:30.516 team something about how to conduct themselves in the world. 0:03:30.876 --> 0:03:35.516 What it means to be mindful, purposeful, environmentally conscious, to 0:03:35.676 --> 0:03:39.356 lead with empathy, to lean in. And when I didn't 0:03:39.356 --> 0:03:45.076 hear that, I felt betrayed. I want to check in 0:03:45.116 --> 0:03:49.756 with Brendan. You out there? Yeah, you are a eCos 0:03:50.956 --> 0:03:57.836 nice Brendan Francis Newnham, another of our top people. If 0:03:57.876 --> 0:04:01.956 you google the words Brooklyn natural wine, farmers market, vinyl records, 0:04:02.276 --> 0:04:05.596 and whatever other affiliated terms show up automatically in the 0:04:05.596 --> 0:04:12.356 search field, you get Brendan eco h an eccentric choice, Uh, 0:04:13.076 --> 0:04:18.756 first of all, top loader, front loader, laundromat nice, Oh 0:04:18.876 --> 0:04:22.316 oh oh, old school? Thank you? Yeah? 0:04:21.916 --> 0:04:22.036 Uh? 0:04:22.356 --> 0:04:25.196 And uh do you separate? I do? 0:04:25.396 --> 0:04:25.716 Yeah? 0:04:25.756 --> 0:04:28.436 And what's your system for separation here? 0:04:29.836 --> 0:04:31.356 I do darts and lights? 0:04:31.436 --> 0:04:33.636 Yeah? Do you wash the other different protocols. 0:04:34.196 --> 0:04:38.236 Yes, I do my my whites, I do hot water, 0:04:38.996 --> 0:04:41.556 and then my darks I do warm water. 0:04:42.556 --> 0:04:46.156 You do your whites in hot water. Yeah, okay, good, 0:04:46.596 --> 0:04:50.476 that's all. I also add bleach into my whites with ghosts. No, no, no, 0:04:50.796 --> 0:04:52.236 that's all. I've heard enough. 0:04:53.916 --> 0:04:54.116 Here. 0:04:54.196 --> 0:04:58.036 I thought that Pushkin was in laundry terms the shining 0:04:58.116 --> 0:05:02.356 laundry mat on the hill, and it's not. 0:05:03.276 --> 0:05:03.916 But that's okay. 0:05:05.156 --> 0:05:11.316 Actually it wasn't okay. My name is Malcolm Gladwell. You're 0:05:11.356 --> 0:05:16.476 listening to Revisionist History, my podcast about things overlooked and misunderstood. 0:05:20.756 --> 0:05:24.036 This episode is about an odyssey I embarked upon in 0:05:24.076 --> 0:05:27.476 the darkest days of the pandemic, an odyssey which ended 0:05:27.476 --> 0:05:31.196 in me shaking my head at my fellow Pushkinites over 0:05:31.236 --> 0:05:34.516 their laundry room conduct, even though I knew deep down 0:05:35.036 --> 0:05:42.236 that I was no better than they were. Where do 0:05:42.276 --> 0:05:45.196 you go when you've become consumed with questions of clothes 0:05:45.556 --> 0:05:49.596 and laundry and detergent The answer is obvious. You go 0:05:49.676 --> 0:05:52.676 to the north side of Cincinnati, about a fifteen minute 0:05:52.756 --> 0:05:56.036 drive from downtown, to an industrial zone with a cluster 0:05:56.316 --> 0:06:00.916 of nineteenth century Granite Buildings, the Proctor and Gamble Fabric 0:06:00.996 --> 0:06:04.716 and Home Care Innovation Center, the research arm of Procter 0:06:04.836 --> 0:06:08.956 and Gamble, the consumer products Giant, which makes basically every 0:06:09.156 --> 0:06:12.436 thing in your broom closet, your laundry room, and your 0:06:12.436 --> 0:06:17.396 medicine cabinet. I went there on snowy winter's day to 0:06:17.436 --> 0:06:24.556 meet a guy named Todd Kleine. You look chemist by trade. 0:06:24.236 --> 0:06:27.956 So I studied chemical engineering. So close to a chemist. 0:06:28.156 --> 0:06:31.756 Yeah, Todd is maybe my age. Kind of intense wiring 0:06:31.836 --> 0:06:34.676 runners build. He and I actually ran eight miles a 0:06:34.756 --> 0:06:38.276 night before through downtown Cincinnati, over the bridges along the 0:06:38.356 --> 0:06:41.876 riverfront up through Grant Park, which I realized later is 0:06:41.916 --> 0:06:45.116 a very Todd Cline thing to do. Put the visitor 0:06:45.156 --> 0:06:50.276 through his paces. And have you been at P ANDNG 0:06:50.436 --> 0:06:51.316 your whole lot? O? 0:06:51.956 --> 0:06:53.596 I have been, and it feels like my whole life 0:06:53.596 --> 0:06:57.556 because I've been here twenty five plus years now. So 0:06:57.756 --> 0:07:02.916 I started on metamusol, which at that time was positioned 0:07:03.556 --> 0:07:06.476 as a supplement for laxative. So I was, you know, 0:07:06.556 --> 0:07:09.916 the twenty two year old single guy the school and 0:07:09.956 --> 0:07:13.276 they said, you're working on metamucil. Doing what? And it 0:07:13.356 --> 0:07:15.476 is still one of my favorite things I've ever worked on. 0:07:16.796 --> 0:07:19.356 Klein worked on re engineering the formulation to make it 0:07:19.396 --> 0:07:23.116 more palatable. Then he was assigned to the painkiller A Lap, 0:07:23.916 --> 0:07:27.756 then Folger's Coffee back when Procter still own those brands, 0:07:28.236 --> 0:07:31.516 A Procter they like to move people around. And after 0:07:31.556 --> 0:07:33.596 that he was posted to Swiffer. 0:07:34.236 --> 0:07:37.076 So my team was doing Swiffer wet Jet, which I 0:07:37.076 --> 0:07:39.156 don't know if you've seen those. It's a mop that 0:07:39.196 --> 0:07:41.996 you push a button, solution sprays out, and there's a 0:07:42.036 --> 0:07:46.516 pad that collects all the dirty solutions. So you've got 0:07:46.716 --> 0:07:50.476 the mop part, then you've got a separate solution on 0:07:50.716 --> 0:07:57.116 putting out something that will both help dissolve soils, break 0:07:57.196 --> 0:08:00.276 up soils, but not leave streaks on the floor, and 0:08:00.356 --> 0:08:01.436 also leave a nice scent. 0:08:02.236 --> 0:08:05.236 There are a few greater pleasures in life than discovering 0:08:05.236 --> 0:08:10.236 that something once considered uninteresting is actually InCred interesting. 0:08:12.436 --> 0:08:16.156 You're trying to get those scrubbing on hard things, suck 0:08:16.236 --> 0:08:19.836 up solution and then hold it there because you're sucking 0:08:19.916 --> 0:08:22.756 up dirty solution and you don't want it going back 0:08:22.796 --> 0:08:25.716 down on the floor. So we actually use the same 0:08:26.236 --> 0:08:29.716 polymer inside the pad that we use in diapers to 0:08:29.756 --> 0:08:32.756 hold the urine with mops. A lot of times when 0:08:33.276 --> 0:08:36.316 you're mopping floors, you're slashing dirty water around a lot, 0:08:36.636 --> 0:08:38.396 and with swiffer you actually suck it up and it 0:08:38.476 --> 0:08:39.116 holds it there. 0:08:40.636 --> 0:08:47.036 Madameusel A, leave Folger's swiffer the Maslow's hierarchy of consumer products. 0:08:48.716 --> 0:08:51.916 I will warn you about halfway through this episode, you'll 0:08:51.956 --> 0:08:55.116 say to yourself, Wow, Malcolm really fell hard for those 0:08:55.156 --> 0:08:58.396 Procter and Gamble people, didn't he. Let me just address 0:08:58.436 --> 0:09:02.516 that issue now before things get out of hand. Yes, 0:09:02.956 --> 0:09:16.716 I did. I was raised in a household in the 0:09:16.796 --> 0:09:19.836 nineteen seventies where my father used a handsaw to cut 0:09:19.876 --> 0:09:22.756 all the wood for our woodstove because he refused to 0:09:22.836 --> 0:09:29.476 use a chainsaw. I think he considered chainsaws decadent. My mother, meanwhile, 0:09:29.556 --> 0:09:31.756 in the dead of winter, would bundle up in a 0:09:31.756 --> 0:09:35.036 parka like an Eskimo and hang the family's laundry outside 0:09:35.036 --> 0:09:40.156 on a clothesline because she disapproved of dryers. These are 0:09:40.196 --> 0:09:45.316 my people, my heritage, people who dwelt on the particulars 0:09:45.396 --> 0:09:49.476 of their domestic conduct. At some point in the midst 0:09:49.516 --> 0:09:53.196 of the COVID lockdown, I reflected on my own domestic 0:09:53.236 --> 0:09:56.636 practice what do I do. I go down to my 0:09:56.636 --> 0:10:00.276 basement and I throw my clothes heedlessly into my shiny 0:10:00.276 --> 0:10:03.916 red LG washing machine, grab whatever detergent I can from 0:10:03.916 --> 0:10:08.036 a row of random bottles on the shelf, mindless consumption 0:10:08.436 --> 0:10:12.956 of huge amounts of hot water, chemicals and electricity, without 0:10:12.956 --> 0:10:16.796 so much as a stray thought to my intentions. We 0:10:16.956 --> 0:10:19.476 like to think it doesn't matter these little things, but 0:10:19.516 --> 0:10:23.236 there are twenty five billion loads of laundry done every 0:10:23.316 --> 0:10:27.396 year in the United States and Canada. That's twenty five billion. 0:10:28.396 --> 0:10:32.596 The little things add up. So there in my basement 0:10:32.756 --> 0:10:36.316 on laundry day one evening, I resolved to do better, 0:10:36.956 --> 0:10:40.836 and off I went, in a blinding snowstorm to Cincinnati 0:10:41.156 --> 0:10:44.836 to see Todd Klein, P and G's North American Fabricare 0:10:44.956 --> 0:10:48.756 Section head for Research and Development. In Hindi, there is 0:10:48.796 --> 0:10:51.756 a word for an opportunity or occasion of seeing a 0:10:51.756 --> 0:10:56.836 holy person, darshan. I requested a darshan with the Guru 0:10:56.916 --> 0:11:03.596 of American Laundry. We began our tour in a long 0:11:03.676 --> 0:11:06.476 room full of washing machines what looked like at least 0:11:06.516 --> 0:11:10.596 one hundred of them, front loaders, top lofeors, big industrial 0:11:10.636 --> 0:11:15.116 strength Maytag machines Japanese washing machines, which I'd never seen before, 0:11:15.396 --> 0:11:18.996 and which are so wonderfully and perfectly Japanese that I 0:11:19.036 --> 0:11:21.476 felt like grabbing my laundry and jumping on a plane 0:11:21.476 --> 0:11:25.476 to Tokyo. Figures the Japanese machine would be like more complex, 0:11:25.596 --> 0:11:27.836 very cool. Yeah, it looks like a let's say, looks 0:11:27.916 --> 0:11:31.836 like a flight of the moon. Each of the one 0:11:31.876 --> 0:11:34.756 hundred plus machines in that long room was linked to 0:11:34.796 --> 0:11:37.996 a network of black pipes, which allowed the Procter people 0:11:38.196 --> 0:11:42.876 to mimic the typical temperature, water hardness, chlorine concentration of 0:11:42.916 --> 0:11:46.916 every major water system where Procter and Gamble detergents are sold. 0:11:47.436 --> 0:11:49.956 You want to simulate how a tide pob washes whites 0:11:49.956 --> 0:11:53.716 in Raykivic in a late model LG front loader, they 0:11:53.716 --> 0:11:57.956 can do that. How many people work in just in 0:11:58.036 --> 0:12:03.076 this facility in R and D for detergents. 0:12:02.676 --> 0:12:06.076 Oh wow, at least a couple of hundred. 0:12:07.036 --> 0:12:09.356 All those people for the past decade or more or 0:12:09.516 --> 0:12:12.076 had been focused on the question of how we could 0:12:12.116 --> 0:12:14.916 do our twenty five billion loads of laundry in a 0:12:14.996 --> 0:12:20.836 more environmentally friendly way. They begin with a comprehensive statistical 0:12:20.836 --> 0:12:24.196 analysis of the carbon footprint of every input in the 0:12:24.236 --> 0:12:28.996 laundry process. Raw materials in the detergents, do they have 0:12:29.036 --> 0:12:34.676 a big carbon footprint? Actually not really. Manufacturing every tide 0:12:34.676 --> 0:12:41.076 plant now runs on wind power, transportation and packaging pretty insignificant, 0:12:41.356 --> 0:12:45.036 particularly if you're talking pods in a recyclable tub, which 0:12:45.036 --> 0:12:49.476 are highly concentrated and easy to ship. The environmental impact 0:12:49.676 --> 0:12:51.876 of a load of laundry turns out to be driven 0:12:51.916 --> 0:12:56.396 by what we the people at home do. Blind showed 0:12:56.396 --> 0:12:59.236 me a chart with all the calculations. 0:12:58.836 --> 0:13:02.996 And when you look at the carbon footprint, you can 0:13:03.036 --> 0:13:06.796 see that the product use phase is by far it's everything. 0:13:07.836 --> 0:13:12.316 Product use is industry jargon for your laundry ritual. So 0:13:12.356 --> 0:13:14.556 it's what percent is that two thirds? Two thirds? 0:13:14.636 --> 0:13:18.156 Yeah, it's close to seventy percent. And what that is 0:13:18.156 --> 0:13:22.036 is the energy to heat the water when people do laundry. 0:13:22.116 --> 0:13:26.756 If someone chooses to use cold instead of warm, it's 0:13:26.756 --> 0:13:30.836 a seventy percent reduction in energy in the use phase. 0:13:31.116 --> 0:13:33.716 So you have a huge shrinking here. If they choose 0:13:33.756 --> 0:13:38.516 cold versus hot, it's a ninety percent reduction in energy. 0:13:38.636 --> 0:13:41.956 Cold water washing is the holy grail of the laundry business. 0:13:42.356 --> 0:13:45.676 Washing your clothes in cold water means colors don't run, 0:13:45.996 --> 0:13:48.596 your clothes lasts longer, you save a lot of money, 0:13:48.756 --> 0:13:52.796 and you shrink your carbon footprint massively. But it's a 0:13:52.796 --> 0:13:55.516 lot harder to get your clothes clean in cold water. 0:13:56.036 --> 0:14:00.196 The chemical reactions between detergent and stain slow down dramatically 0:14:00.236 --> 0:14:04.036 as the temperature drops. This is what the detergent experts 0:14:04.236 --> 0:14:08.156 at the Innovation Center do. They try to solve this problem. 0:14:08.396 --> 0:14:11.636 So factants. We use a blend of surfactants. What is 0:14:11.676 --> 0:14:16.916 a surfactant. They're really the workhourse of the detergency and 0:14:16.996 --> 0:14:20.276 they're a material that goes in and it basically helps 0:14:20.396 --> 0:14:25.036 roll the stains off of the clothing. So they penetrate 0:14:25.316 --> 0:14:28.716 into the clothing and under and lift up and capture 0:14:28.756 --> 0:14:31.396 the stain, almost encapsulate it and help bring it out 0:14:31.516 --> 0:14:32.236 into the water. 0:14:32.996 --> 0:14:35.476 Then there are enzymes to break down the stain into 0:14:35.476 --> 0:14:36.316 smaller pieces. 0:14:36.956 --> 0:14:41.356 So we have specific enzymes for protease that goes after 0:14:41.436 --> 0:14:46.516 protein based stains, amylase goes after starch based stains, manninase 0:14:46.636 --> 0:14:52.556 goes after more gelatin manotype stains, And we develop enzymes 0:14:52.956 --> 0:14:55.676 that are formulated specifically for cold water. 0:14:56.196 --> 0:15:00.636 He went on, he talked about special antioxidants, something called keelants, 0:15:00.996 --> 0:15:04.396 the challenge of removing body odor from t shirts. Cline 0:15:04.596 --> 0:15:07.916 made the point over and over that the only way 0:15:07.996 --> 0:15:10.596 for a detergent to be in vironmentally friendly was if 0:15:10.636 --> 0:15:13.316 it's effective in cold water, and the only way it 0:15:13.316 --> 0:15:16.036 could be effective in cold water is if it's designed 0:15:16.516 --> 0:15:19.316 to the most exacting specifications. 0:15:20.556 --> 0:15:25.796 When you're washing your clothes, surfactants and polymers and enzymes 0:15:25.876 --> 0:15:28.716 are there to get the soil off of your clothes, 0:15:29.636 --> 0:15:33.196 but when they come off, your clothes are swashing around 0:15:33.196 --> 0:15:36.516 in this water, so you pull everything off, and then 0:15:36.556 --> 0:15:37.796 your clothes. 0:15:37.316 --> 0:15:39.236 Are circuitting in the dirty wall. 0:15:39.196 --> 0:15:42.676 Exactly, so the other polymer we use is there to 0:15:42.716 --> 0:15:46.316 prevent the dirt from redepositing back onto your clothes. 0:15:47.396 --> 0:15:51.916 The most environmentally sustainable detergent is, by definition, the most 0:15:52.036 --> 0:15:56.196 sophisticated detergent. You can't limit your carbon footprint without putting 0:15:56.196 --> 0:15:58.556 an army of engineers and bench scientists on the job, 0:16:00.916 --> 0:16:04.996 But just spend a few minutes online reading detergent rankings 0:16:05.156 --> 0:16:10.076 on environmental websites. The importance of water temper almost never 0:16:10.116 --> 0:16:15.476 comes up. Instead, it's all about simplicity. I mean, just 0:16:15.556 --> 0:16:18.356 listen to this, picked at random from the Mountain of 0:16:18.436 --> 0:16:23.076 laundry advice on the Internet. The eight best green laundry 0:16:23.116 --> 0:16:26.636 detergents of twenty twenty one from something called the Spruce 0:16:27.196 --> 0:16:32.476 Ready best budget eCos liquid laundry detergent, the kind that 0:16:32.516 --> 0:16:37.476 Brendan uses, remember him, Brooklyn Brandon. eCos boasts that their 0:16:37.476 --> 0:16:41.996 liquid detergent is made from plant based ingredients, as if 0:16:42.036 --> 0:16:46.556 they're telling us it's safe enough to drink. Meanwhile, the 0:16:46.676 --> 0:16:55.156 site earthfriendlytips dot com writes glowingly of something called Molly's SuDS. 0:16:56.156 --> 0:16:59.396 Mollie SuDS is one of the best eco friendly laundry 0:16:59.396 --> 0:17:02.596 detergents because it was developed to be Earth safe and 0:17:02.756 --> 0:17:08.076 people safe. It contains no chemical based sutsing ingredients. Instead, 0:17:08.516 --> 0:17:11.796 it's formula I did with only five earth derived ingredients. 0:17:13.036 --> 0:17:16.716 Only five earth derived ingredients. What does that even mean? 0:17:17.516 --> 0:17:21.956 Even the name makes no sense. Molly's SuDS. As it happens, 0:17:22.236 --> 0:17:24.636 SuDS are the problem in laundry. 0:17:25.076 --> 0:17:28.196 High efficiency machines have sensors that at the end of 0:17:28.236 --> 0:17:31.076 the rent cycle, since are there any SuDS left or not? 0:17:31.596 --> 0:17:34.236 And if there are, they'll do an extra rent cycle, 0:17:34.436 --> 0:17:35.876 so you'll use extra water. 0:17:36.676 --> 0:17:39.156 If you're a detergent company that wants to be seen 0:17:39.196 --> 0:17:42.196 as green, you don't call out SuDS in your name. 0:17:42.676 --> 0:17:45.796 You boast about all the sophisticated engineering advances you've made 0:17:46.156 --> 0:17:53.836 to suppress your SuDS. The biggest question the environmentally conscious 0:17:53.836 --> 0:17:57.276 consumers should be asking is which detergent will allow me 0:17:57.356 --> 0:18:00.036 to do as many as possible of my laundry loads 0:18:00.076 --> 0:18:05.076 in cold water. Tardkline has devoted years of his life 0:18:05.156 --> 0:18:06.156 to answering that question. 0:18:06.836 --> 0:18:09.276 We do a lot of technical testing maybe instead. Up 0:18:09.276 --> 0:18:10.556 over here, He. 0:18:10.596 --> 0:18:12.476 Led me over to a counter where he had a 0:18:12.516 --> 0:18:15.516 series of Haines t shirts in both one hundred percent 0:18:15.596 --> 0:18:19.116 cotton and cotton poly blend. On each shirt there was 0:18:19.156 --> 0:18:21.836 a grid of little circular stains. And where you've got 0:18:21.956 --> 0:18:27.436 nes cafe coffee, grape juice and blueberries, and then gravy 0:18:27.596 --> 0:18:33.676 blood and us clay and then barbecue Hershey's what's that? 0:18:33.676 --> 0:18:37.956 What's GCS chocolate? Just chocolate and French is mustard. So 0:18:37.996 --> 0:18:42.516 we have a grid of nine stains of nine stains. 0:18:42.196 --> 0:18:44.676 Yeap, and here's rice starch and soy milk, as well 0:18:44.676 --> 0:18:47.516 as these two that say see them those are body soils, 0:18:48.156 --> 0:18:51.516 so we will use stain sets like this. They're technical stains, 0:18:51.556 --> 0:18:54.756 so they're designed not to be fully removed when we 0:18:54.836 --> 0:18:57.876 do it, and we use spectro photometry to measure what 0:18:58.076 --> 0:19:00.836 percent of each stain is removed. But what you can 0:19:00.876 --> 0:19:06.716 see here is this is tied on cold. Relative to 0:19:08.436 --> 0:19:09.076 the competitor. 0:19:10.436 --> 0:19:15.316 The tiding question was tied Hygienic Clean pods. The competitor 0:19:15.716 --> 0:19:17.916 was one of the other best selling detergents on the market. 0:19:18.276 --> 0:19:21.796 Climb wouldn't tell me what it was. The competitor washed 0:19:21.796 --> 0:19:26.076 the stain grid on warm. The Tide Hygienic Clean washed 0:19:26.116 --> 0:19:30.996 the stained grid on cold. He held up the results. 0:19:30.716 --> 0:19:34.676 You can see particularly with particularly with the gravy blood. 0:19:34.796 --> 0:19:41.636 Gravy blood barbecue and Hershey's tied totally wins. It looks 0:19:41.716 --> 0:19:46.356 like it's even on blueberries clay and French's mustard. 0:19:46.956 --> 0:19:52.836 It's closer on mustard. They actually it's either a tie 0:19:53.276 --> 0:19:55.756 or they may actually win. On the mustard. It's a 0:19:55.796 --> 0:19:59.156 pH driven stain. The rest of them, when you look 0:19:59.156 --> 0:20:03.196 at the statistics and the spectrum for tarmater results, we 0:20:03.276 --> 0:20:05.516 actually have significant winds there as well. 0:20:09.516 --> 0:20:12.596 The laundry wizards have given us away to save money, 0:20:12.796 --> 0:20:15.996 save our clothes, and save the environment. But is that 0:20:16.116 --> 0:20:21.196 what we do? No, we do not. In America, less 0:20:21.236 --> 0:20:25.116 than half of all laundry loads are cold water. When 0:20:25.116 --> 0:20:27.836 it comes to our laundry, we are a nation divided. 0:20:28.516 --> 0:20:30.916 And who is in the hot and warm half, the 0:20:31.076 --> 0:20:37.756 dumb half, the laundry basket of deplorables. Malcolm Gladwell, who 0:20:37.876 --> 0:20:40.996 likes to wag his finger at other people over their 0:20:40.996 --> 0:20:45.476 ethical lapses and fancies himself the paragon of science based, 0:20:45.716 --> 0:21:00.036 open minded rationality, physician, heal thyself. When I got back 0:21:00.076 --> 0:21:03.756 from Cincinnati, I called up my old friend Dide Gordon. 0:21:04.156 --> 0:21:06.356 We ride again, We. 0:21:06.316 --> 0:21:08.716 Ride again as always. 0:21:09.196 --> 0:21:12.156 Some of you may remember Dede. She appeared in the 0:21:12.156 --> 0:21:16.436 Revisionist History episode Free Brown Williams from season three. I've 0:21:16.476 --> 0:21:19.316 known her forever. When I first met her, she lived 0:21:19.316 --> 0:21:22.276 in a fabulous mid century house right by the Hollywood 0:21:22.316 --> 0:21:25.076 Sign in Beachwrick Canyon. I used to house sit there 0:21:25.276 --> 0:21:27.916 whenever de Dy went off on her annual trips to Japan. 0:21:28.556 --> 0:21:31.396 I got to take care of her dog's sage, I 0:21:31.476 --> 0:21:36.116 miss Sage. D d now runs a boutique consumer research 0:21:36.196 --> 0:21:39.716 outfit called the Gordon company. You go to Dede when 0:21:39.716 --> 0:21:42.796 your brand has a problem and you've run out of answers. 0:21:43.436 --> 0:21:47.236 I think Dede's a genius. Just to be clear, the 0:21:47.316 --> 0:21:51.796 reason we're doing this is that I was astonished and 0:21:52.156 --> 0:21:56.196 ashamed to learn that I had been washing my clothes 0:21:56.196 --> 0:22:00.076 on warm and hot all these years, when I could 0:22:00.516 --> 0:22:04.876 have had better results for on every dimension if i'd 0:22:04.956 --> 0:22:07.596 washed them on cold. And so I wanted to understand 0:22:07.796 --> 0:22:10.596 not just why I I went wrong, but I want 0:22:10.636 --> 0:22:13.556 to understand who are these people who I should be emulating, 0:22:13.796 --> 0:22:16.196 who saw the truth before I did? 0:22:16.676 --> 0:22:19.316 You always start your conversations that way. I'm obsessed. 0:22:20.076 --> 0:22:22.636 I need to understand what is it about these cold 0:22:22.676 --> 0:22:25.796 water people that I'm not getting? 0:22:26.476 --> 0:22:29.876 Why am I not like these people? Tell me? You 0:22:29.956 --> 0:22:30.636 need to tell me. 0:22:30.756 --> 0:22:31.676 So I was disturbed. 0:22:31.676 --> 0:22:36.036 It was like, okay, I was disturbed, so disturbed. Now 0:22:36.076 --> 0:22:37.436 you were you were disturbed. 0:22:38.396 --> 0:22:41.196 I'd given Didi a job the kind her company does 0:22:41.196 --> 0:22:45.596 all the time, consumer interviews and analysis. I asked her 0:22:45.636 --> 0:22:49.156 to find me some dedicated cold water laundry people, figure 0:22:49.196 --> 0:22:52.996 them out, report back. Diddy's team did hours and hours 0:22:52.996 --> 0:22:56.676 of interviews with scores of people, and now I was 0:22:56.676 --> 0:22:57.836 getting the report. 0:22:58.156 --> 0:23:01.956 And we asked them all different types of questions about 0:23:01.996 --> 0:23:08.356 their attitudes and beliefs around laundry and detergent and brands 0:23:08.596 --> 0:23:12.236 and their process. We asked them about, you know, what 0:23:12.316 --> 0:23:15.796 makes them tick. And we also watched some of them 0:23:15.876 --> 0:23:19.276 do their laundry and they walked us through their process 0:23:19.316 --> 0:23:21.836 of doing laundry, and then we had a post interview 0:23:21.836 --> 0:23:22.516 with them as well. 0:23:22.916 --> 0:23:26.356 It was really interesting, really interesting. I mean, these people 0:23:26.436 --> 0:23:30.196 that we talked to really love doing laundry. I mean 0:23:30.236 --> 0:23:30.916 they love it. 0:23:31.636 --> 0:23:34.916 There was one interviewee in particular that did he wanted 0:23:34.916 --> 0:23:37.236 me to listen to. I'll call her Janet. 0:23:37.636 --> 0:23:39.196 She's a laundry master. 0:23:40.436 --> 0:23:44.476 She hires a nanny to watch her kids so that 0:23:44.556 --> 0:23:46.116 she can go do the laundry. 0:23:47.036 --> 0:23:53.676 That's fantastic, okay, I mean, like, let's get real here. 0:23:53.956 --> 0:23:57.116 I mean that's some serious laundry love. 0:23:57.596 --> 0:24:00.716 Janet was maybe in her forties or early fifties, single 0:24:00.756 --> 0:24:04.476 mom of three, successful entrepreneur. God knows how did he 0:24:04.556 --> 0:24:06.836 found her. She played me tape of Janet talking with 0:24:06.876 --> 0:24:08.516 one of the Gordon Company analysts. 0:24:08.756 --> 0:24:09.676 Tom. 0:24:10.156 --> 0:24:11.996 Let's see, one of your best friends was going to 0:24:12.076 --> 0:24:14.916 describe you to me? Who doesn't know you at all, 0:24:15.236 --> 0:24:19.396 How would they describe your personality and sort of what 0:24:19.436 --> 0:24:22.156 your friends and interests are. 0:24:23.316 --> 0:24:26.396 Okay, so I've been called an angel and a heart 0:24:26.436 --> 0:24:31.356 of gold. I will help pretty much anyone who needs help. 0:24:33.116 --> 0:24:37.476 I would also think they would say energetic, all over 0:24:37.516 --> 0:24:43.356 the place, world traveler, pre pandemic, and just a very 0:24:43.476 --> 0:24:46.556 nice person and a good mom with good values. 0:24:47.476 --> 0:24:49.516 Very nice, very nice. 0:24:49.556 --> 0:24:54.276 And then some would say, yeah, she's a little crazy. 0:24:55.196 --> 0:24:58.276 Jenet talks about the television shows she watches, the car 0:24:58.356 --> 0:25:01.756 she drives, how much she loves to garden. Then we 0:25:01.876 --> 0:25:02.756 get to the good stuff. 0:25:05.116 --> 0:25:09.556 I'm a little neurotic about the laundry. I'm not neurotic 0:25:09.556 --> 0:25:11.956 about too many things, but when it comes to laundry, 0:25:12.596 --> 0:25:16.596 I like to buy good things. I dressed my children 0:25:16.636 --> 0:25:20.436 from the time they were tiny, and you know, beautiful things. 0:25:20.876 --> 0:25:23.836 I would never use like a bargain brand of detergent, 0:25:24.316 --> 0:25:27.636 for sure, there's a difference. I would send sometimes the 0:25:27.676 --> 0:25:32.516 girls to the supermarket and a number of times they 0:25:32.556 --> 0:25:39.556 bought the store brand, and I tried it and wasn't 0:25:39.916 --> 0:25:40.796 really garbage. 0:25:42.676 --> 0:25:45.236 Janet's the kind of consumer that did he lives for. 0:25:46.196 --> 0:25:47.036