1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:15,796 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:22,556 --> 00:00:27,116 Speaker 2: We all here, so there's thirty five people here now 3 00:00:27,636 --> 00:00:29,996 Speaker 2: thirty six so we're getting close. 4 00:00:30,676 --> 00:00:37,316 Speaker 1: Okay, thank you. Every Wednesday afternoon, Pushkin Industries, the company 5 00:00:37,316 --> 00:00:40,756 Speaker 1: that brings you this and many other audio delights, has 6 00:00:40,756 --> 00:00:44,356 Speaker 1: a staff meeting. Not long ago, I asked if I 7 00:00:44,436 --> 00:00:47,796 Speaker 1: could take over the meeting for a frank discussion of 8 00:00:47,876 --> 00:00:52,036 Speaker 1: a very delicate subject, laundry. 9 00:00:53,236 --> 00:00:53,316 Speaker 3: Now. 10 00:00:53,396 --> 00:00:56,476 Speaker 1: I know there's been a lot of chatter around this 11 00:00:57,036 --> 00:01:00,596 Speaker 1: podcast episode of mine, and there's two questions I keep hearing. 12 00:01:00,636 --> 00:01:03,396 Speaker 1: One is is there a right answer? And the answer is, 13 00:01:03,436 --> 00:01:06,476 Speaker 1: of course, is the right answer. There's always the right answer. 14 00:01:06,516 --> 00:01:10,516 Speaker 1: With Revision's history on zoom, I can see all these 15 00:01:10,556 --> 00:01:13,396 Speaker 1: faces looking at me, wondering where on earth am I 16 00:01:13,436 --> 00:01:16,596 Speaker 1: going with this? Is there going to be laundry shaming? 17 00:01:16,676 --> 00:01:19,356 Speaker 1: And the answer is yes, but the person being shamed 18 00:01:19,436 --> 00:01:23,996 Speaker 1: is me. The whole reason I'm doing this episode is 19 00:01:24,036 --> 00:01:27,836 Speaker 1: I became aware that my laundry practices were sorely deficient, 20 00:01:28,476 --> 00:01:32,196 Speaker 1: and I wanted to understand why. I'm going to pick 21 00:01:32,196 --> 00:01:35,076 Speaker 1: on a couple of people who were generous enough to 22 00:01:35,116 --> 00:01:37,956 Speaker 1: share their detergent preferences with me, and I'm going to 23 00:01:37,996 --> 00:01:41,436 Speaker 1: ask them a few short questions. John Schnarz, Maybe we 24 00:01:41,476 --> 00:01:46,476 Speaker 1: should start with you, John John Schnarz, Pushkin's vice president 25 00:01:46,516 --> 00:01:51,116 Speaker 1: of business development, sensitive, highly evolved, modern male, father to 26 00:01:51,316 --> 00:01:54,436 Speaker 1: many small children. Do you have a top loading or 27 00:01:54,476 --> 00:01:56,276 Speaker 1: front loading washing machine? 28 00:01:56,836 --> 00:01:57,156 Speaker 4: Top? 29 00:01:57,996 --> 00:02:00,996 Speaker 1: Oh? Interesting? Do you have the piston that comes up? 30 00:02:03,156 --> 00:02:05,756 Speaker 1: I thought it was what is called a agitator. I 31 00:02:05,756 --> 00:02:09,276 Speaker 1: believe by this point in my research, I knew a 32 00:02:09,316 --> 00:02:13,676 Speaker 1: lot about washing machines and top loading machines are well, 33 00:02:14,076 --> 00:02:17,716 Speaker 1: they're not good. I was embarrassed for John, a senior 34 00:02:17,756 --> 00:02:24,196 Speaker 1: officer of Pushkin, should know better. Let's skip to Carrie. 35 00:02:25,996 --> 00:02:26,476 Speaker 4: Thank you. 36 00:02:27,036 --> 00:02:31,276 Speaker 1: Carrie Colon, one of our top people making audiobooks Whip Smart. 37 00:02:31,476 --> 00:02:35,036 Speaker 1: If anyone could teach us something, it would be Carrie. Also, 38 00:02:35,116 --> 00:02:38,916 Speaker 1: she's a mom, does a lot of laundry. What's your 39 00:02:39,196 --> 00:02:40,916 Speaker 1: temperature use? Do you very temperature? 40 00:02:41,356 --> 00:02:43,796 Speaker 5: I vary temperature based on instructions? 41 00:02:44,316 --> 00:02:47,716 Speaker 1: What are these? So tell me those those particular protocols. 42 00:02:47,956 --> 00:02:50,436 Speaker 6: Well, actually I should know. I'll back up. 43 00:02:50,516 --> 00:02:53,996 Speaker 5: I go on normal wash, and so my washer will 44 00:02:53,996 --> 00:02:56,596 Speaker 5: tell me. If I just say normal, it does its 45 00:02:56,756 --> 00:02:57,876 Speaker 5: boooooop and. 46 00:02:57,836 --> 00:02:59,196 Speaker 6: Then it comes out with whatever. 47 00:03:00,916 --> 00:03:01,476 Speaker 1: The machine. 48 00:03:01,476 --> 00:03:04,396 Speaker 5: I defer to the machine unless there's something that I 49 00:03:04,476 --> 00:03:07,396 Speaker 5: think I'm supposed to pay special attention to in there. 50 00:03:07,876 --> 00:03:13,916 Speaker 1: Yes, okay, thank you, it's been very helpful. What was 51 00:03:13,956 --> 00:03:17,556 Speaker 1: I thinking looking back? I don't know. I didn't really 52 00:03:17,596 --> 00:03:20,956 Speaker 1: explain myself. I just crashed the staff meeting to ask 53 00:03:21,036 --> 00:03:23,916 Speaker 1: people about their laundry habits in the hopes that the 54 00:03:23,956 --> 00:03:27,196 Speaker 1: senior Pushkin leadership would teach the younger people on our 55 00:03:27,236 --> 00:03:30,516 Speaker 1: team something about how to conduct themselves in the world. 56 00:03:30,876 --> 00:03:35,516 Speaker 1: What it means to be mindful, purposeful, environmentally conscious, to 57 00:03:35,676 --> 00:03:39,356 Speaker 1: lead with empathy, to lean in. And when I didn't 58 00:03:39,356 --> 00:03:45,076 Speaker 1: hear that, I felt betrayed. I want to check in 59 00:03:45,116 --> 00:03:49,756 Speaker 1: with Brendan. You out there? Yeah, you are a eCos 60 00:03:50,956 --> 00:03:57,836 Speaker 1: nice Brendan Francis Newnham, another of our top people. If 61 00:03:57,876 --> 00:04:01,956 Speaker 1: you google the words Brooklyn natural wine, farmers market, vinyl records, 62 00:04:02,276 --> 00:04:05,596 Speaker 1: and whatever other affiliated terms show up automatically in the 63 00:04:05,596 --> 00:04:12,356 Speaker 1: search field, you get Brendan eco h an eccentric choice, Uh, 64 00:04:13,076 --> 00:04:18,756 Speaker 1: first of all, top loader, front loader, laundromat nice, Oh 65 00:04:18,876 --> 00:04:22,316 Speaker 1: oh oh, old school? Thank you? Yeah? 66 00:04:21,916 --> 00:04:22,036 Speaker 3: Uh? 67 00:04:22,356 --> 00:04:25,196 Speaker 1: And uh do you separate? I do? 68 00:04:25,396 --> 00:04:25,716 Speaker 3: Yeah? 69 00:04:25,756 --> 00:04:28,436 Speaker 1: And what's your system for separation here? 70 00:04:29,836 --> 00:04:31,356 Speaker 7: I do darts and lights? 71 00:04:31,436 --> 00:04:33,636 Speaker 1: Yeah? Do you wash the other different protocols. 72 00:04:34,196 --> 00:04:38,236 Speaker 6: Yes, I do my my whites, I do hot water, 73 00:04:38,996 --> 00:04:41,556 Speaker 6: and then my darks I do warm water. 74 00:04:42,556 --> 00:04:46,156 Speaker 1: You do your whites in hot water. Yeah, okay, good, 75 00:04:46,596 --> 00:04:50,476 Speaker 1: that's all. I also add bleach into my whites with ghosts. No, no, no, 76 00:04:50,796 --> 00:04:52,236 Speaker 1: that's all. I've heard enough. 77 00:04:53,916 --> 00:04:54,116 Speaker 2: Here. 78 00:04:54,196 --> 00:04:58,036 Speaker 1: I thought that Pushkin was in laundry terms the shining 79 00:04:58,116 --> 00:05:02,356 Speaker 1: laundry mat on the hill, and it's not. 80 00:05:03,276 --> 00:05:03,916 Speaker 3: But that's okay. 81 00:05:05,156 --> 00:05:11,316 Speaker 1: Actually it wasn't okay. My name is Malcolm Gladwell. You're 82 00:05:11,356 --> 00:05:16,476 Speaker 1: listening to Revisionist History, my podcast about things overlooked and misunderstood. 83 00:05:20,756 --> 00:05:24,036 Speaker 1: This episode is about an odyssey I embarked upon in 84 00:05:24,076 --> 00:05:27,476 Speaker 1: the darkest days of the pandemic, an odyssey which ended 85 00:05:27,476 --> 00:05:31,196 Speaker 1: in me shaking my head at my fellow Pushkinites over 86 00:05:31,236 --> 00:05:34,516 Speaker 1: their laundry room conduct, even though I knew deep down 87 00:05:35,036 --> 00:05:42,236 Speaker 1: that I was no better than they were. Where do 88 00:05:42,276 --> 00:05:45,196 Speaker 1: you go when you've become consumed with questions of clothes 89 00:05:45,556 --> 00:05:49,596 Speaker 1: and laundry and detergent The answer is obvious. You go 90 00:05:49,676 --> 00:05:52,676 Speaker 1: to the north side of Cincinnati, about a fifteen minute 91 00:05:52,756 --> 00:05:56,036 Speaker 1: drive from downtown, to an industrial zone with a cluster 92 00:05:56,316 --> 00:06:00,916 Speaker 1: of nineteenth century Granite Buildings, the Proctor and Gamble Fabric 93 00:06:00,996 --> 00:06:04,716 Speaker 1: and Home Care Innovation Center, the research arm of Procter 94 00:06:04,836 --> 00:06:08,956 Speaker 1: and Gamble, the consumer products Giant, which makes basically every 95 00:06:09,156 --> 00:06:12,436 Speaker 1: thing in your broom closet, your laundry room, and your 96 00:06:12,436 --> 00:06:17,396 Speaker 1: medicine cabinet. I went there on snowy winter's day to 97 00:06:17,436 --> 00:06:24,556 Speaker 1: meet a guy named Todd Kleine. You look chemist by trade. 98 00:06:24,236 --> 00:06:27,956 Speaker 7: So I studied chemical engineering. So close to a chemist. 99 00:06:28,156 --> 00:06:31,756 Speaker 1: Yeah, Todd is maybe my age. Kind of intense wiring 100 00:06:31,836 --> 00:06:34,676 Speaker 1: runners build. He and I actually ran eight miles a 101 00:06:34,756 --> 00:06:38,276 Speaker 1: night before through downtown Cincinnati, over the bridges along the 102 00:06:38,356 --> 00:06:41,876 Speaker 1: riverfront up through Grant Park, which I realized later is 103 00:06:41,916 --> 00:06:45,116 Speaker 1: a very Todd Cline thing to do. Put the visitor 104 00:06:45,156 --> 00:06:50,276 Speaker 1: through his paces. And have you been at P ANDNG 105 00:06:50,436 --> 00:06:51,316 Speaker 1: your whole lot? O? 106 00:06:51,956 --> 00:06:53,596 Speaker 7: I have been, and it feels like my whole life 107 00:06:53,596 --> 00:06:57,556 Speaker 7: because I've been here twenty five plus years now. So 108 00:06:57,756 --> 00:07:02,916 Speaker 7: I started on metamusol, which at that time was positioned 109 00:07:03,556 --> 00:07:06,476 Speaker 7: as a supplement for laxative. So I was, you know, 110 00:07:06,556 --> 00:07:09,916 Speaker 7: the twenty two year old single guy the school and 111 00:07:09,956 --> 00:07:13,276 Speaker 7: they said, you're working on metamucil. Doing what? And it 112 00:07:13,356 --> 00:07:15,476 Speaker 7: is still one of my favorite things I've ever worked on. 113 00:07:16,796 --> 00:07:19,356 Speaker 1: Klein worked on re engineering the formulation to make it 114 00:07:19,396 --> 00:07:23,116 Speaker 1: more palatable. Then he was assigned to the painkiller A Lap, 115 00:07:23,916 --> 00:07:27,756 Speaker 1: then Folger's Coffee back when Procter still own those brands, 116 00:07:28,236 --> 00:07:31,516 Speaker 1: A Procter they like to move people around. And after 117 00:07:31,556 --> 00:07:33,596 Speaker 1: that he was posted to Swiffer. 118 00:07:34,236 --> 00:07:37,076 Speaker 7: So my team was doing Swiffer wet Jet, which I 119 00:07:37,076 --> 00:07:39,156 Speaker 7: don't know if you've seen those. It's a mop that 120 00:07:39,196 --> 00:07:41,996 Speaker 7: you push a button, solution sprays out, and there's a 121 00:07:42,036 --> 00:07:46,516 Speaker 7: pad that collects all the dirty solutions. So you've got 122 00:07:46,716 --> 00:07:50,476 Speaker 7: the mop part, then you've got a separate solution on 123 00:07:50,716 --> 00:07:57,116 Speaker 7: putting out something that will both help dissolve soils, break 124 00:07:57,196 --> 00:08:00,276 Speaker 7: up soils, but not leave streaks on the floor, and 125 00:08:00,356 --> 00:08:01,436 Speaker 7: also leave a nice scent. 126 00:08:02,236 --> 00:08:05,236 Speaker 1: There are a few greater pleasures in life than discovering 127 00:08:05,236 --> 00:08:10,236 Speaker 1: that something once considered uninteresting is actually InCred interesting. 128 00:08:12,436 --> 00:08:16,156 Speaker 7: You're trying to get those scrubbing on hard things, suck 129 00:08:16,236 --> 00:08:19,836 Speaker 7: up solution and then hold it there because you're sucking 130 00:08:19,916 --> 00:08:22,756 Speaker 7: up dirty solution and you don't want it going back 131 00:08:22,796 --> 00:08:25,716 Speaker 7: down on the floor. So we actually use the same 132 00:08:26,236 --> 00:08:29,716 Speaker 7: polymer inside the pad that we use in diapers to 133 00:08:29,756 --> 00:08:32,756 Speaker 7: hold the urine with mops. A lot of times when 134 00:08:33,276 --> 00:08:36,316 Speaker 7: you're mopping floors, you're slashing dirty water around a lot, 135 00:08:36,636 --> 00:08:38,396 Speaker 7: and with swiffer you actually suck it up and it 136 00:08:38,476 --> 00:08:39,116 Speaker 7: holds it there. 137 00:08:40,636 --> 00:08:47,036 Speaker 1: Madameusel A, leave Folger's swiffer the Maslow's hierarchy of consumer products. 138 00:08:48,716 --> 00:08:51,916 Speaker 1: I will warn you about halfway through this episode, you'll 139 00:08:51,956 --> 00:08:55,116 Speaker 1: say to yourself, Wow, Malcolm really fell hard for those 140 00:08:55,156 --> 00:08:58,396 Speaker 1: Procter and Gamble people, didn't he. Let me just address 141 00:08:58,436 --> 00:09:02,516 Speaker 1: that issue now before things get out of hand. Yes, 142 00:09:02,956 --> 00:09:16,716 Speaker 1: I did. I was raised in a household in the 143 00:09:16,796 --> 00:09:19,836 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies where my father used a handsaw to cut 144 00:09:19,876 --> 00:09:22,756 Speaker 1: all the wood for our woodstove because he refused to 145 00:09:22,836 --> 00:09:29,476 Speaker 1: use a chainsaw. I think he considered chainsaws decadent. My mother, meanwhile, 146 00:09:29,556 --> 00:09:31,756 Speaker 1: in the dead of winter, would bundle up in a 147 00:09:31,756 --> 00:09:35,036 Speaker 1: parka like an Eskimo and hang the family's laundry outside 148 00:09:35,036 --> 00:09:40,156 Speaker 1: on a clothesline because she disapproved of dryers. These are 149 00:09:40,196 --> 00:09:45,316 Speaker 1: my people, my heritage, people who dwelt on the particulars 150 00:09:45,396 --> 00:09:49,476 Speaker 1: of their domestic conduct. At some point in the midst 151 00:09:49,516 --> 00:09:53,196 Speaker 1: of the COVID lockdown, I reflected on my own domestic 152 00:09:53,236 --> 00:09:56,636 Speaker 1: practice what do I do. I go down to my 153 00:09:56,636 --> 00:10:00,276 Speaker 1: basement and I throw my clothes heedlessly into my shiny 154 00:10:00,276 --> 00:10:03,916 Speaker 1: red LG washing machine, grab whatever detergent I can from 155 00:10:03,916 --> 00:10:08,036 Speaker 1: a row of random bottles on the shelf, mindless consumption 156 00:10:08,436 --> 00:10:12,956 Speaker 1: of huge amounts of hot water, chemicals and electricity, without 157 00:10:12,956 --> 00:10:16,796 Speaker 1: so much as a stray thought to my intentions. We 158 00:10:16,956 --> 00:10:19,476 Speaker 1: like to think it doesn't matter these little things, but 159 00:10:19,516 --> 00:10:23,236 Speaker 1: there are twenty five billion loads of laundry done every 160 00:10:23,316 --> 00:10:27,396 Speaker 1: year in the United States and Canada. That's twenty five billion. 161 00:10:28,396 --> 00:10:32,596 Speaker 1: The little things add up. So there in my basement 162 00:10:32,756 --> 00:10:36,316 Speaker 1: on laundry day one evening, I resolved to do better, 163 00:10:36,956 --> 00:10:40,836 Speaker 1: and off I went, in a blinding snowstorm to Cincinnati 164 00:10:41,156 --> 00:10:44,836 Speaker 1: to see Todd Klein, P and G's North American Fabricare 165 00:10:44,956 --> 00:10:48,756 Speaker 1: Section head for Research and Development. In Hindi, there is 166 00:10:48,796 --> 00:10:51,756 Speaker 1: a word for an opportunity or occasion of seeing a 167 00:10:51,756 --> 00:10:56,836 Speaker 1: holy person, darshan. I requested a darshan with the Guru 168 00:10:56,916 --> 00:11:03,596 Speaker 1: of American Laundry. We began our tour in a long 169 00:11:03,676 --> 00:11:06,476 Speaker 1: room full of washing machines what looked like at least 170 00:11:06,516 --> 00:11:10,596 Speaker 1: one hundred of them, front loaders, top lofeors, big industrial 171 00:11:10,636 --> 00:11:15,116 Speaker 1: strength Maytag machines Japanese washing machines, which I'd never seen before, 172 00:11:15,396 --> 00:11:18,996 Speaker 1: and which are so wonderfully and perfectly Japanese that I 173 00:11:19,036 --> 00:11:21,476 Speaker 1: felt like grabbing my laundry and jumping on a plane 174 00:11:21,476 --> 00:11:25,476 Speaker 1: to Tokyo. Figures the Japanese machine would be like more complex, 175 00:11:25,596 --> 00:11:27,836 Speaker 1: very cool. Yeah, it looks like a let's say, looks 176 00:11:27,916 --> 00:11:31,836 Speaker 1: like a flight of the moon. Each of the one 177 00:11:31,876 --> 00:11:34,756 Speaker 1: hundred plus machines in that long room was linked to 178 00:11:34,796 --> 00:11:37,996 Speaker 1: a network of black pipes, which allowed the Procter people 179 00:11:38,196 --> 00:11:42,876 Speaker 1: to mimic the typical temperature, water hardness, chlorine concentration of 180 00:11:42,916 --> 00:11:46,916 Speaker 1: every major water system where Procter and Gamble detergents are sold. 181 00:11:47,436 --> 00:11:49,956 Speaker 1: You want to simulate how a tide pob washes whites 182 00:11:49,956 --> 00:11:53,716 Speaker 1: in Raykivic in a late model LG front loader, they 183 00:11:53,716 --> 00:11:57,956 Speaker 1: can do that. How many people work in just in 184 00:11:58,036 --> 00:12:03,076 Speaker 1: this facility in R and D for detergents. 185 00:12:02,676 --> 00:12:06,076 Speaker 7: Oh wow, at least a couple of hundred. 186 00:12:07,036 --> 00:12:09,356 Speaker 1: All those people for the past decade or more or 187 00:12:09,516 --> 00:12:12,076 Speaker 1: had been focused on the question of how we could 188 00:12:12,116 --> 00:12:14,916 Speaker 1: do our twenty five billion loads of laundry in a 189 00:12:14,996 --> 00:12:20,836 Speaker 1: more environmentally friendly way. They begin with a comprehensive statistical 190 00:12:20,836 --> 00:12:24,196 Speaker 1: analysis of the carbon footprint of every input in the 191 00:12:24,236 --> 00:12:28,996 Speaker 1: laundry process. Raw materials in the detergents, do they have 192 00:12:29,036 --> 00:12:34,676 Speaker 1: a big carbon footprint? Actually not really. Manufacturing every tide 193 00:12:34,676 --> 00:12:41,076 Speaker 1: plant now runs on wind power, transportation and packaging pretty insignificant, 194 00:12:41,356 --> 00:12:45,036 Speaker 1: particularly if you're talking pods in a recyclable tub, which 195 00:12:45,036 --> 00:12:49,476 Speaker 1: are highly concentrated and easy to ship. The environmental impact 196 00:12:49,676 --> 00:12:51,876 Speaker 1: of a load of laundry turns out to be driven 197 00:12:51,916 --> 00:12:56,396 Speaker 1: by what we the people at home do. Blind showed 198 00:12:56,396 --> 00:12:59,236 Speaker 1: me a chart with all the calculations. 199 00:12:58,836 --> 00:13:02,996 Speaker 7: And when you look at the carbon footprint, you can 200 00:13:03,036 --> 00:13:06,796 Speaker 7: see that the product use phase is by far it's everything. 201 00:13:07,836 --> 00:13:12,316 Speaker 1: Product use is industry jargon for your laundry ritual. So 202 00:13:12,356 --> 00:13:14,556 Speaker 1: it's what percent is that two thirds? Two thirds? 203 00:13:14,636 --> 00:13:18,156 Speaker 7: Yeah, it's close to seventy percent. And what that is 204 00:13:18,156 --> 00:13:22,036 Speaker 7: is the energy to heat the water when people do laundry. 205 00:13:22,116 --> 00:13:26,756 Speaker 7: If someone chooses to use cold instead of warm, it's 206 00:13:26,756 --> 00:13:30,836 Speaker 7: a seventy percent reduction in energy in the use phase. 207 00:13:31,116 --> 00:13:33,716 Speaker 7: So you have a huge shrinking here. If they choose 208 00:13:33,756 --> 00:13:38,516 Speaker 7: cold versus hot, it's a ninety percent reduction in energy. 209 00:13:38,636 --> 00:13:41,956 Speaker 1: Cold water washing is the holy grail of the laundry business. 210 00:13:42,356 --> 00:13:45,676 Speaker 1: Washing your clothes in cold water means colors don't run, 211 00:13:45,996 --> 00:13:48,596 Speaker 1: your clothes lasts longer, you save a lot of money, 212 00:13:48,756 --> 00:13:52,796 Speaker 1: and you shrink your carbon footprint massively. But it's a 213 00:13:52,796 --> 00:13:55,516 Speaker 1: lot harder to get your clothes clean in cold water. 214 00:13:56,036 --> 00:14:00,196 Speaker 1: The chemical reactions between detergent and stain slow down dramatically 215 00:14:00,236 --> 00:14:04,036 Speaker 1: as the temperature drops. This is what the detergent experts 216 00:14:04,236 --> 00:14:08,156 Speaker 1: at the Innovation Center do. They try to solve this problem. 217 00:14:08,396 --> 00:14:11,636 Speaker 7: So factants. We use a blend of surfactants. What is 218 00:14:11,676 --> 00:14:16,916 Speaker 7: a surfactant. They're really the workhourse of the detergency and 219 00:14:16,996 --> 00:14:20,276 Speaker 7: they're a material that goes in and it basically helps 220 00:14:20,396 --> 00:14:25,036 Speaker 7: roll the stains off of the clothing. So they penetrate 221 00:14:25,316 --> 00:14:28,716 Speaker 7: into the clothing and under and lift up and capture 222 00:14:28,756 --> 00:14:31,396 Speaker 7: the stain, almost encapsulate it and help bring it out 223 00:14:31,516 --> 00:14:32,236 Speaker 7: into the water. 224 00:14:32,996 --> 00:14:35,476 Speaker 1: Then there are enzymes to break down the stain into 225 00:14:35,476 --> 00:14:36,316 Speaker 1: smaller pieces. 226 00:14:36,956 --> 00:14:41,356 Speaker 7: So we have specific enzymes for protease that goes after 227 00:14:41,436 --> 00:14:46,516 Speaker 7: protein based stains, amylase goes after starch based stains, manninase 228 00:14:46,636 --> 00:14:52,556 Speaker 7: goes after more gelatin manotype stains, And we develop enzymes 229 00:14:52,956 --> 00:14:55,676 Speaker 7: that are formulated specifically for cold water. 230 00:14:56,196 --> 00:15:00,636 Speaker 1: He went on, he talked about special antioxidants, something called keelants, 231 00:15:00,996 --> 00:15:04,396 Speaker 1: the challenge of removing body odor from t shirts. Cline 232 00:15:04,596 --> 00:15:07,916 Speaker 1: made the point over and over that the only way 233 00:15:07,996 --> 00:15:10,596 Speaker 1: for a detergent to be in vironmentally friendly was if 234 00:15:10,636 --> 00:15:13,316 Speaker 1: it's effective in cold water, and the only way it 235 00:15:13,316 --> 00:15:16,036 Speaker 1: could be effective in cold water is if it's designed 236 00:15:16,516 --> 00:15:19,316 Speaker 1: to the most exacting specifications. 237 00:15:20,556 --> 00:15:25,796 Speaker 7: When you're washing your clothes, surfactants and polymers and enzymes 238 00:15:25,876 --> 00:15:28,716 Speaker 7: are there to get the soil off of your clothes, 239 00:15:29,636 --> 00:15:33,196 Speaker 7: but when they come off, your clothes are swashing around 240 00:15:33,196 --> 00:15:36,516 Speaker 7: in this water, so you pull everything off, and then 241 00:15:36,556 --> 00:15:37,796 Speaker 7: your clothes. 242 00:15:37,316 --> 00:15:39,236 Speaker 1: Are circuitting in the dirty wall. 243 00:15:39,196 --> 00:15:42,676 Speaker 7: Exactly, so the other polymer we use is there to 244 00:15:42,716 --> 00:15:46,316 Speaker 7: prevent the dirt from redepositing back onto your clothes. 245 00:15:47,396 --> 00:15:51,916 Speaker 1: The most environmentally sustainable detergent is, by definition, the most 246 00:15:52,036 --> 00:15:56,196 Speaker 1: sophisticated detergent. You can't limit your carbon footprint without putting 247 00:15:56,196 --> 00:15:58,556 Speaker 1: an army of engineers and bench scientists on the job, 248 00:16:00,916 --> 00:16:04,996 Speaker 1: But just spend a few minutes online reading detergent rankings 249 00:16:05,156 --> 00:16:10,076 Speaker 1: on environmental websites. The importance of water temper almost never 250 00:16:10,116 --> 00:16:15,476 Speaker 1: comes up. Instead, it's all about simplicity. I mean, just 251 00:16:15,556 --> 00:16:18,356 Speaker 1: listen to this, picked at random from the Mountain of 252 00:16:18,436 --> 00:16:23,076 Speaker 1: laundry advice on the Internet. The eight best green laundry 253 00:16:23,116 --> 00:16:26,636 Speaker 1: detergents of twenty twenty one from something called the Spruce 254 00:16:27,196 --> 00:16:32,476 Speaker 1: Ready best budget eCos liquid laundry detergent, the kind that 255 00:16:32,516 --> 00:16:37,476 Speaker 1: Brendan uses, remember him, Brooklyn Brandon. eCos boasts that their 256 00:16:37,476 --> 00:16:41,996 Speaker 1: liquid detergent is made from plant based ingredients, as if 257 00:16:42,036 --> 00:16:46,556 Speaker 1: they're telling us it's safe enough to drink. Meanwhile, the 258 00:16:46,676 --> 00:16:55,156 Speaker 1: site earthfriendlytips dot com writes glowingly of something called Molly's SuDS. 259 00:16:56,156 --> 00:16:59,396 Speaker 8: Mollie SuDS is one of the best eco friendly laundry 260 00:16:59,396 --> 00:17:02,596 Speaker 8: detergents because it was developed to be Earth safe and 261 00:17:02,756 --> 00:17:08,076 Speaker 8: people safe. It contains no chemical based sutsing ingredients. Instead, 262 00:17:08,516 --> 00:17:11,796 Speaker 8: it's formula I did with only five earth derived ingredients. 263 00:17:13,036 --> 00:17:16,716 Speaker 1: Only five earth derived ingredients. What does that even mean? 264 00:17:17,516 --> 00:17:21,956 Speaker 1: Even the name makes no sense. Molly's SuDS. As it happens, 265 00:17:22,236 --> 00:17:24,636 Speaker 1: SuDS are the problem in laundry. 266 00:17:25,076 --> 00:17:28,196 Speaker 7: High efficiency machines have sensors that at the end of 267 00:17:28,236 --> 00:17:31,076 Speaker 7: the rent cycle, since are there any SuDS left or not? 268 00:17:31,596 --> 00:17:34,236 Speaker 7: And if there are, they'll do an extra rent cycle, 269 00:17:34,436 --> 00:17:35,876 Speaker 7: so you'll use extra water. 270 00:17:36,676 --> 00:17:39,156 Speaker 1: If you're a detergent company that wants to be seen 271 00:17:39,196 --> 00:17:42,196 Speaker 1: as green, you don't call out SuDS in your name. 272 00:17:42,676 --> 00:17:45,796 Speaker 1: You boast about all the sophisticated engineering advances you've made 273 00:17:46,156 --> 00:17:53,836 Speaker 1: to suppress your SuDS. The biggest question the environmentally conscious 274 00:17:53,836 --> 00:17:57,276 Speaker 1: consumers should be asking is which detergent will allow me 275 00:17:57,356 --> 00:18:00,036 Speaker 1: to do as many as possible of my laundry loads 276 00:18:00,076 --> 00:18:05,076 Speaker 1: in cold water. Tardkline has devoted years of his life 277 00:18:05,156 --> 00:18:06,156 Speaker 1: to answering that question. 278 00:18:06,836 --> 00:18:09,276 Speaker 7: We do a lot of technical testing maybe instead. Up 279 00:18:09,276 --> 00:18:10,556 Speaker 7: over here, He. 280 00:18:10,596 --> 00:18:12,476 Speaker 1: Led me over to a counter where he had a 281 00:18:12,516 --> 00:18:15,516 Speaker 1: series of Haines t shirts in both one hundred percent 282 00:18:15,596 --> 00:18:19,116 Speaker 1: cotton and cotton poly blend. On each shirt there was 283 00:18:19,156 --> 00:18:21,836 Speaker 1: a grid of little circular stains. And where you've got 284 00:18:21,956 --> 00:18:27,436 Speaker 1: nes cafe coffee, grape juice and blueberries, and then gravy 285 00:18:27,596 --> 00:18:33,676 Speaker 1: blood and us clay and then barbecue Hershey's what's that? 286 00:18:33,676 --> 00:18:37,956 Speaker 1: What's GCS chocolate? Just chocolate and French is mustard. So 287 00:18:37,996 --> 00:18:42,516 Speaker 1: we have a grid of nine stains of nine stains. 288 00:18:42,196 --> 00:18:44,676 Speaker 7: Yeap, and here's rice starch and soy milk, as well 289 00:18:44,676 --> 00:18:47,516 Speaker 7: as these two that say see them those are body soils, 290 00:18:48,156 --> 00:18:51,516 Speaker 7: so we will use stain sets like this. They're technical stains, 291 00:18:51,556 --> 00:18:54,756 Speaker 7: so they're designed not to be fully removed when we 292 00:18:54,836 --> 00:18:57,876 Speaker 7: do it, and we use spectro photometry to measure what 293 00:18:58,076 --> 00:19:00,836 Speaker 7: percent of each stain is removed. But what you can 294 00:19:00,876 --> 00:19:06,716 Speaker 7: see here is this is tied on cold. Relative to 295 00:19:08,436 --> 00:19:09,076 Speaker 7: the competitor. 296 00:19:10,436 --> 00:19:15,316 Speaker 1: The tiding question was tied Hygienic Clean pods. The competitor 297 00:19:15,716 --> 00:19:17,916 Speaker 1: was one of the other best selling detergents on the market. 298 00:19:18,276 --> 00:19:21,796 Speaker 1: Climb wouldn't tell me what it was. The competitor washed 299 00:19:21,796 --> 00:19:26,076 Speaker 1: the stain grid on warm. The Tide Hygienic Clean washed 300 00:19:26,116 --> 00:19:30,996 Speaker 1: the stained grid on cold. He held up the results. 301 00:19:30,716 --> 00:19:34,676 Speaker 7: You can see particularly with particularly with the gravy blood. 302 00:19:34,796 --> 00:19:41,636 Speaker 1: Gravy blood barbecue and Hershey's tied totally wins. It looks 303 00:19:41,716 --> 00:19:46,356 Speaker 1: like it's even on blueberries clay and French's mustard. 304 00:19:46,956 --> 00:19:52,836 Speaker 7: It's closer on mustard. They actually it's either a tie 305 00:19:53,276 --> 00:19:55,756 Speaker 7: or they may actually win. On the mustard. It's a 306 00:19:55,796 --> 00:19:59,156 Speaker 7: pH driven stain. The rest of them, when you look 307 00:19:59,156 --> 00:20:03,196 Speaker 7: at the statistics and the spectrum for tarmater results, we 308 00:20:03,276 --> 00:20:05,516 Speaker 7: actually have significant winds there as well. 309 00:20:09,516 --> 00:20:12,596 Speaker 1: The laundry wizards have given us away to save money, 310 00:20:12,796 --> 00:20:15,996 Speaker 1: save our clothes, and save the environment. But is that 311 00:20:16,116 --> 00:20:21,196 Speaker 1: what we do? No, we do not. In America, less 312 00:20:21,236 --> 00:20:25,116 Speaker 1: than half of all laundry loads are cold water. When 313 00:20:25,116 --> 00:20:27,836 Speaker 1: it comes to our laundry, we are a nation divided. 314 00:20:28,516 --> 00:20:30,916 Speaker 1: And who is in the hot and warm half, the 315 00:20:31,076 --> 00:20:37,756 Speaker 1: dumb half, the laundry basket of deplorables. Malcolm Gladwell, who 316 00:20:37,876 --> 00:20:40,996 Speaker 1: likes to wag his finger at other people over their 317 00:20:40,996 --> 00:20:45,476 Speaker 1: ethical lapses and fancies himself the paragon of science based, 318 00:20:45,716 --> 00:21:00,036 Speaker 1: open minded rationality, physician, heal thyself. When I got back 319 00:21:00,076 --> 00:21:03,756 Speaker 1: from Cincinnati, I called up my old friend Dide Gordon. 320 00:21:04,156 --> 00:21:06,356 Speaker 1: We ride again, We. 321 00:21:06,316 --> 00:21:08,716 Speaker 6: Ride again as always. 322 00:21:09,196 --> 00:21:12,156 Speaker 1: Some of you may remember Dede. She appeared in the 323 00:21:12,156 --> 00:21:16,436 Speaker 1: Revisionist History episode Free Brown Williams from season three. I've 324 00:21:16,476 --> 00:21:19,316 Speaker 1: known her forever. When I first met her, she lived 325 00:21:19,316 --> 00:21:22,276 Speaker 1: in a fabulous mid century house right by the Hollywood 326 00:21:22,316 --> 00:21:25,076 Speaker 1: Sign in Beachwrick Canyon. I used to house sit there 327 00:21:25,276 --> 00:21:27,916 Speaker 1: whenever de Dy went off on her annual trips to Japan. 328 00:21:28,556 --> 00:21:31,396 Speaker 1: I got to take care of her dog's sage, I 329 00:21:31,476 --> 00:21:36,116 Speaker 1: miss Sage. D d now runs a boutique consumer research 330 00:21:36,196 --> 00:21:39,716 Speaker 1: outfit called the Gordon company. You go to Dede when 331 00:21:39,716 --> 00:21:42,796 Speaker 1: your brand has a problem and you've run out of answers. 332 00:21:43,436 --> 00:21:47,236 Speaker 1: I think Dede's a genius. Just to be clear, the 333 00:21:47,316 --> 00:21:51,796 Speaker 1: reason we're doing this is that I was astonished and 334 00:21:52,156 --> 00:21:56,196 Speaker 1: ashamed to learn that I had been washing my clothes 335 00:21:56,196 --> 00:22:00,076 Speaker 1: on warm and hot all these years, when I could 336 00:22:00,516 --> 00:22:04,876 Speaker 1: have had better results for on every dimension if i'd 337 00:22:04,956 --> 00:22:07,596 Speaker 1: washed them on cold. And so I wanted to understand 338 00:22:07,796 --> 00:22:10,596 Speaker 1: not just why I I went wrong, but I want 339 00:22:10,636 --> 00:22:13,556 Speaker 1: to understand who are these people who I should be emulating, 340 00:22:13,796 --> 00:22:16,196 Speaker 1: who saw the truth before I did? 341 00:22:16,676 --> 00:22:19,316 Speaker 6: You always start your conversations that way. I'm obsessed. 342 00:22:20,076 --> 00:22:22,636 Speaker 3: I need to understand what is it about these cold 343 00:22:22,676 --> 00:22:25,796 Speaker 3: water people that I'm not getting? 344 00:22:26,476 --> 00:22:29,876 Speaker 6: Why am I not like these people? Tell me? You 345 00:22:29,956 --> 00:22:30,636 Speaker 6: need to tell me. 346 00:22:30,756 --> 00:22:31,676 Speaker 1: So I was disturbed. 347 00:22:31,676 --> 00:22:36,036 Speaker 6: It was like, okay, I was disturbed, so disturbed. Now 348 00:22:36,076 --> 00:22:37,436 Speaker 6: you were you were disturbed. 349 00:22:38,396 --> 00:22:41,196 Speaker 1: I'd given Didi a job the kind her company does 350 00:22:41,196 --> 00:22:45,596 Speaker 1: all the time, consumer interviews and analysis. I asked her 351 00:22:45,636 --> 00:22:49,156 Speaker 1: to find me some dedicated cold water laundry people, figure 352 00:22:49,196 --> 00:22:52,996 Speaker 1: them out, report back. Diddy's team did hours and hours 353 00:22:52,996 --> 00:22:56,676 Speaker 1: of interviews with scores of people, and now I was 354 00:22:56,676 --> 00:22:57,836 Speaker 1: getting the report. 355 00:22:58,156 --> 00:23:01,956 Speaker 4: And we asked them all different types of questions about 356 00:23:01,996 --> 00:23:08,356 Speaker 4: their attitudes and beliefs around laundry and detergent and brands 357 00:23:08,596 --> 00:23:12,236 Speaker 4: and their process. We asked them about, you know, what 358 00:23:12,316 --> 00:23:15,796 Speaker 4: makes them tick. And we also watched some of them 359 00:23:15,876 --> 00:23:19,276 Speaker 4: do their laundry and they walked us through their process 360 00:23:19,316 --> 00:23:21,836 Speaker 4: of doing laundry, and then we had a post interview 361 00:23:21,836 --> 00:23:22,516 Speaker 4: with them as well. 362 00:23:22,916 --> 00:23:26,356 Speaker 6: It was really interesting, really interesting. I mean, these people 363 00:23:26,436 --> 00:23:30,196 Speaker 6: that we talked to really love doing laundry. I mean 364 00:23:30,236 --> 00:23:30,916 Speaker 6: they love it. 365 00:23:31,636 --> 00:23:34,916 Speaker 1: There was one interviewee in particular that did he wanted 366 00:23:34,916 --> 00:23:37,236 Speaker 1: me to listen to. I'll call her Janet. 367 00:23:37,636 --> 00:23:39,196 Speaker 6: She's a laundry master. 368 00:23:40,436 --> 00:23:44,476 Speaker 3: She hires a nanny to watch her kids so that 369 00:23:44,556 --> 00:23:46,116 Speaker 3: she can go do the laundry. 370 00:23:47,036 --> 00:23:53,676 Speaker 1: That's fantastic, okay, I mean, like, let's get real here. 371 00:23:53,956 --> 00:23:57,116 Speaker 6: I mean that's some serious laundry love. 372 00:23:57,596 --> 00:24:00,716 Speaker 1: Janet was maybe in her forties or early fifties, single 373 00:24:00,756 --> 00:24:04,476 Speaker 1: mom of three, successful entrepreneur. God knows how did he 374 00:24:04,556 --> 00:24:06,836 Speaker 1: found her. She played me tape of Janet talking with 375 00:24:06,876 --> 00:24:08,516 Speaker 1: one of the Gordon Company analysts. 376 00:24:08,756 --> 00:24:09,676 Speaker 4: Tom. 377 00:24:10,156 --> 00:24:11,996 Speaker 9: Let's see, one of your best friends was going to 378 00:24:12,076 --> 00:24:14,916 Speaker 9: describe you to me? Who doesn't know you at all, 379 00:24:15,236 --> 00:24:19,396 Speaker 9: How would they describe your personality and sort of what 380 00:24:19,436 --> 00:24:22,156 Speaker 9: your friends and interests are. 381 00:24:23,316 --> 00:24:26,396 Speaker 2: Okay, so I've been called an angel and a heart 382 00:24:26,436 --> 00:24:31,356 Speaker 2: of gold. I will help pretty much anyone who needs help. 383 00:24:33,116 --> 00:24:37,476 Speaker 2: I would also think they would say energetic, all over 384 00:24:37,516 --> 00:24:43,356 Speaker 2: the place, world traveler, pre pandemic, and just a very 385 00:24:43,476 --> 00:24:46,556 Speaker 2: nice person and a good mom with good values. 386 00:24:47,476 --> 00:24:49,516 Speaker 9: Very nice, very nice. 387 00:24:49,556 --> 00:24:54,276 Speaker 2: And then some would say, yeah, she's a little crazy. 388 00:24:55,196 --> 00:24:58,276 Speaker 1: Jenet talks about the television shows she watches, the car 389 00:24:58,356 --> 00:25:01,756 Speaker 1: she drives, how much she loves to garden. Then we 390 00:25:01,876 --> 00:25:02,756 Speaker 1: get to the good stuff. 391 00:25:05,116 --> 00:25:09,556 Speaker 2: I'm a little neurotic about the laundry. I'm not neurotic 392 00:25:09,556 --> 00:25:11,956 Speaker 2: about too many things, but when it comes to laundry, 393 00:25:12,596 --> 00:25:16,596 Speaker 2: I like to buy good things. I dressed my children 394 00:25:16,636 --> 00:25:20,436 Speaker 2: from the time they were tiny, and you know, beautiful things. 395 00:25:20,876 --> 00:25:23,836 Speaker 2: I would never use like a bargain brand of detergent, 396 00:25:24,316 --> 00:25:27,636 Speaker 2: for sure, there's a difference. I would send sometimes the 397 00:25:27,676 --> 00:25:32,516 Speaker 2: girls to the supermarket and a number of times they 398 00:25:32,556 --> 00:25:39,556 Speaker 2: bought the store brand, and I tried it and wasn't 399 00:25:39,916 --> 00:25:40,796 Speaker 2: really garbage. 400 00:25:42,676 --> 00:25:45,236 Speaker 1: Janet's the kind of consumer that did he lives for. 401 00:25:46,196 --> 00:25:47,036 Speaker 6: I just loved her. 402 00:25:47,116 --> 00:25:49,756 Speaker 3: I loved that the attention to detail there was just 403 00:25:49,916 --> 00:25:54,476 Speaker 3: so every every word there was just you know, so much. 404 00:25:54,636 --> 00:25:55,996 Speaker 6: She just delivered so much. 405 00:25:56,796 --> 00:25:59,356 Speaker 1: But the truth is all the cold water users were 406 00:25:59,396 --> 00:26:02,756 Speaker 1: like that. All the people did he interviewed detail oriented 407 00:26:03,156 --> 00:26:03,756 Speaker 1: and driven. 408 00:26:04,436 --> 00:26:05,756 Speaker 6: These people were disciplined. 409 00:26:06,516 --> 00:26:09,356 Speaker 3: So like when we ask them about their washing machine, 410 00:26:09,516 --> 00:26:11,836 Speaker 3: they could rattle off the year they purchased it, the 411 00:26:11,956 --> 00:26:15,436 Speaker 3: cubic foot capacity, the number of settings, all of that 412 00:26:15,516 --> 00:26:17,156 Speaker 3: without ever having to look at anything. 413 00:26:17,196 --> 00:26:19,756 Speaker 6: There was like no manuals sitting on the side there. 414 00:26:19,796 --> 00:26:21,916 Speaker 6: They were just able to rattle all of that off. 415 00:26:22,476 --> 00:26:26,036 Speaker 6: Really impressive. No, I know they're they're superhuman. 416 00:26:26,076 --> 00:26:30,196 Speaker 3: It's really what the cold water users are superhumans. 417 00:26:30,636 --> 00:26:33,716 Speaker 1: D Why is it a question if we're interviewing someone 418 00:26:33,756 --> 00:26:36,196 Speaker 1: to work at Pushkin or the Gordon, why aren't we 419 00:26:36,236 --> 00:26:39,356 Speaker 1: asking the question how do you do your laundry? And 420 00:26:39,396 --> 00:26:41,676 Speaker 1: if they say I've been doing cold water for five years, 421 00:26:41,676 --> 00:26:43,396 Speaker 1: why don't we just say, well, we don't need to 422 00:26:43,436 --> 00:26:44,956 Speaker 1: ask any anything else. 423 00:26:45,476 --> 00:26:47,796 Speaker 3: I mean, honestly, it's got Honestly, it's got to be 424 00:26:47,796 --> 00:26:49,876 Speaker 3: part of the vetting from now on, Like this is 425 00:26:49,916 --> 00:26:52,676 Speaker 3: a vetting question across the board. I mean, they should 426 00:26:52,676 --> 00:26:55,036 Speaker 3: be doing the same thing with our politicians, like, I 427 00:26:55,116 --> 00:26:57,236 Speaker 3: want to know if these people are washing in cold water. 428 00:26:57,396 --> 00:27:00,316 Speaker 3: I bet you Kamala Harris is a cold water user. 429 00:27:00,356 --> 00:27:02,276 Speaker 6: You better believe she's a cold water user. 430 00:27:04,276 --> 00:27:06,636 Speaker 1: Wait to stick about that. She probably know, she probably is. 431 00:27:06,956 --> 00:27:10,436 Speaker 1: I'm serious actually, because I'm serious too. She's half Indian, 432 00:27:10,476 --> 00:27:15,996 Speaker 1: half Jamaican. Those are two cold water laundry cultures, right. 433 00:27:16,716 --> 00:27:19,116 Speaker 1: You know, when my mom was grown up in Jamaica, 434 00:27:19,156 --> 00:27:21,676 Speaker 1: they weren't. They weren't washing their clothes and hot water 435 00:27:22,316 --> 00:27:24,956 Speaker 1: washing cold water. So they start with the presumption of 436 00:27:25,036 --> 00:27:29,636 Speaker 1: cold In what other area of life can you level 437 00:27:29,716 --> 00:27:33,076 Speaker 1: up so easily? I could just set the default settings 438 00:27:33,156 --> 00:27:36,156 Speaker 1: on my washer to cold and get to be a 439 00:27:36,156 --> 00:27:42,116 Speaker 1: better version of myself like Kamala or Janet focused, passionate Janet. 440 00:27:42,796 --> 00:27:45,236 Speaker 2: I'm going to say a year or two ago, I 441 00:27:45,276 --> 00:27:46,956 Speaker 2: was reading an article about you know, what you can 442 00:27:46,996 --> 00:27:49,196 Speaker 2: do for the planet and saving energy and bringing down 443 00:27:49,236 --> 00:27:52,156 Speaker 2: your bills and stuff like that, and they talked about 444 00:27:52,196 --> 00:27:55,476 Speaker 2: cold water washing, and I said, well, that's like the 445 00:27:55,596 --> 00:27:57,076 Speaker 2: simplest change I can make. 446 00:28:00,836 --> 00:28:03,436 Speaker 1: At the end of my day in Cincinnati, I met 447 00:28:03,516 --> 00:28:06,876 Speaker 1: up with Amy Crabile, Brand, vice president at Procter and 448 00:28:06,916 --> 00:28:11,236 Speaker 1: Gamble for North American laundry. We talked about laundry, but 449 00:28:11,396 --> 00:28:17,356 Speaker 1: very quickly our conversation turned to dishwashing. Laundry's domestic cousin. 450 00:28:18,116 --> 00:28:21,476 Speaker 1: Somewhere at Procter and Gamble, there is a parallel universe 451 00:28:21,716 --> 00:28:25,756 Speaker 1: of dishes and dishpowders and rooms full of dishwashing machines 452 00:28:26,116 --> 00:28:29,556 Speaker 1: undergoing the same scrutiny given to our laundry. 453 00:28:30,116 --> 00:28:35,556 Speaker 10: Our friends over at Cascade found that people think that 454 00:28:36,116 --> 00:28:38,676 Speaker 10: it wastes water and energy when you run your dishwasher, 455 00:28:38,916 --> 00:28:43,196 Speaker 10: and so they'll wait to run a load because they 456 00:28:43,196 --> 00:28:45,676 Speaker 10: think it's wasteful. But actually, as long as you have 457 00:28:45,716 --> 00:28:50,196 Speaker 10: eight dishes, running the dishwasher every night uses less energy 458 00:28:50,476 --> 00:28:53,916 Speaker 10: and water resources than running the sink for two minutes, 459 00:28:54,396 --> 00:28:55,476 Speaker 10: which I know I would do. 460 00:28:55,396 --> 00:28:57,756 Speaker 1: Normally running run it by again, as long as you 461 00:28:57,836 --> 00:29:00,996 Speaker 1: have eight do you say eight dishes? Yes, using it 462 00:29:01,636 --> 00:29:04,676 Speaker 1: the dishwasher takes less energy and less water than running 463 00:29:04,716 --> 00:29:05,156 Speaker 1: the sink. 464 00:29:05,236 --> 00:29:06,236 Speaker 10: Think for two minutes. 465 00:29:08,356 --> 00:29:10,996 Speaker 1: Yet another entry on the list of things I didn't 466 00:29:11,036 --> 00:29:16,276 Speaker 1: bother to care about. Two minutes. Yes, really, yes, that 467 00:29:16,436 --> 00:29:18,036 Speaker 1: is super interesting. 468 00:29:17,716 --> 00:29:21,076 Speaker 10: Yes, and counterintuitive because you would think a big machine 469 00:29:21,236 --> 00:29:24,116 Speaker 10: has a lot of energy and water. But you know 470 00:29:24,156 --> 00:29:27,396 Speaker 10: many of these manufacturers are also making those dishwashers more 471 00:29:28,356 --> 00:29:29,276 Speaker 10: energy efficient too. 472 00:29:30,556 --> 00:29:33,476 Speaker 1: Can you settle for me the angel question of whether 473 00:29:33,476 --> 00:29:35,836 Speaker 1: you have to rinse your dishes free within the dishwasher? 474 00:29:36,076 --> 00:29:37,756 Speaker 1: Do you know this is to be the central issue, 475 00:29:37,756 --> 00:29:39,876 Speaker 1: because you can spend as much water on the pre 476 00:29:39,996 --> 00:29:44,236 Speaker 1: rints as you do on the actual washing. 477 00:29:45,236 --> 00:29:48,676 Speaker 10: Now settled, you do not need to rinse your dishes 478 00:29:48,716 --> 00:29:52,076 Speaker 10: before you put them in the dishwasher if you use Cascade. 479 00:29:52,116 --> 00:29:56,076 Speaker 1: Cascade the product of many, many millions of dollars of 480 00:29:56,196 --> 00:30:00,436 Speaker 1: cutting edge research designed to remove tomato, sauce and butter 481 00:30:00,596 --> 00:30:04,516 Speaker 1: and gravy from your plates, not some budget eco brand 482 00:30:04,556 --> 00:30:07,916 Speaker 1: with three ingredients that does such a lousy job you 483 00:30:07,996 --> 00:30:10,956 Speaker 1: end up running the dishwater shirt twice, or giving up 484 00:30:10,956 --> 00:30:15,196 Speaker 1: on the dishwasher entirely and freelancing with hot water on 485 00:30:15,356 --> 00:30:24,636 Speaker 1: max while the planner burns up outside. Really, really, that's huge. 486 00:30:27,356 --> 00:30:34,356 Speaker 1: That changes everything, changed life. The Visious History's brought to 487 00:30:34,356 --> 00:30:36,836 Speaker 1: you by Procter and Gamble. No, I'm kidding. Procter and 488 00:30:36,836 --> 00:30:39,356 Speaker 1: Gamble did not pay for this episode. I fell for 489 00:30:39,516 --> 00:30:47,556 Speaker 1: him all by myself. The Visious History is produced by 490 00:30:47,636 --> 00:30:51,276 Speaker 1: me LaBelle Leeman Gesteu and Jacob Smith with Elouise Linton 491 00:30:51,716 --> 00:30:55,356 Speaker 1: and on a Nyme. Our editor is Julia Barton. Original 492 00:30:55,476 --> 00:30:59,636 Speaker 1: scoring by Luis Kara, mastering by Flon Williams and engineering 493 00:30:59,636 --> 00:31:04,716 Speaker 1: by Martine Gonzalez. Fact checking by Amy Gaines. Special thanks 494 00:31:04,996 --> 00:31:08,996 Speaker 1: to the Pushkin crew. Had a fine Carly Migliori, Maya Cane, 495 00:31:09,436 --> 00:31:15,036 Speaker 1: Danielle Lacan, Maggie Taylor, Eric Sandler, Nicole Morano, Jason Gambrel 496 00:31:15,156 --> 00:31:26,676 Speaker 1: and of course Jacob Eisberg. I'm Malcolm Glama. If you 497 00:31:26,836 --> 00:31:30,756 Speaker 1: love this show and others from Pushkin Industries, consider becoming 498 00:31:30,796 --> 00:31:35,436 Speaker 1: a Pushnick. Pushnick is a podcast subscription that offers bonus 499 00:31:35,476 --> 00:31:39,716 Speaker 1: content and uninterrupted listening for four dollars and ninety nine 500 00:31:39,756 --> 00:31:46,356 Speaker 1: cents a month. Look for Pushnick exclusively on Apple Podcasts subscriptions. 501 00:31:48,196 --> 00:31:52,596 Speaker 1: Monday is laundry day in the gravel household. As we speak, 502 00:31:53,156 --> 00:31:56,076 Speaker 1: clothes are circulating in cold water and hygienic clean pods. 503 00:31:56,196 --> 00:31:59,516 Speaker 3: As we speak, we already know Kamala is using it. 504 00:31:59,596 --> 00:32:00,116 Speaker 6: No doubt. 505 00:32:00,436 --> 00:32:04,356 Speaker 3: We are convinced that Kamala Harris is using tie coldwater. 506 00:32:04,716 --> 00:32:05,436 Speaker 1: I know she is. 507 00:32:05,796 --> 00:32:06,516 Speaker 2: I know she is