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Speaker 1: Hey guys. Before we get into my terrific conversation with

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Speaker 1: Eric Hutchinson, I want to give you a little listening recommendation. Now,

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Speaker 1: we don't talk about politics here on Off the Cup,

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Speaker 1: but when you want to, when you're in that mood,

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Speaker 1: I've got a podcast for you. It's hosted by my

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Speaker 1: friend Andy Astroy. It's called The back Room with Andy Astroy,

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Speaker 1: and it's so fun. It's really insightful. It's politics but

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Speaker 1: also pop culture, and it features terrific interviews with prominent politicians,

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Speaker 1: media personalities, journalists, authors, academics, filmmakers. I love going on

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Speaker 1: the pod with Andy because he's got a unique voice

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Speaker 1: and strong opinions. He's really funny, he's engaging, and the

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Speaker 1: chats are informal and intimate, but I think really informative.

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Speaker 1: The Backroom with Andy Ostroy posts new episodes two to

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Speaker 1: three times a week and they can be found wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. So check it out and now

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Speaker 1: onto the show.

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Speaker 2: I feel like we end up writing pop songs about

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Speaker 2: like four so I've spent a lot of my career

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Speaker 2: trying to write other songs and a lot of times

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Speaker 2: people are like cool, I don't know what to do

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Speaker 2: with this song. I can't play this at a wedding.

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Speaker 2: I can't get drunk to the song. But I'm interested

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Speaker 2: in that sort of gray area of life.

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Speaker 1: Welcomes off the cup my personal anti anxiety antidote, and

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Speaker 1: boy do we need it right There's a lot going

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Speaker 1: on in the world, but we can take a break

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Speaker 1: from it all right here. And music is always such

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Speaker 1: a great escape, isn't it. Are you one of those

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Speaker 1: people who listens to sad songs when they're sad? I

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Speaker 1: don't do that sad songs to me, doubling down on

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Speaker 1: the sad doesn't generally work for me, but I know

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Speaker 1: a lot of people who do that. I escape into

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Speaker 1: music all the time, though, and this being a podcast

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Speaker 1: where we do talk about mental health, I can tell

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Speaker 1: you when I'm at my most anxious, it's classical music

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Speaker 1: that really fixes me up. For some reason, listening to

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Speaker 1: lyric it's too much stimulus. It's too emotionally triggering for me.

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Speaker 1: So I need the classical to really calm me down,

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Speaker 1: and it works. But I love all kinds of genres,

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Speaker 1: and I think we had Paul Stanley of Kiss on

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Speaker 1: the pod and he said it right I think he

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Speaker 1: was quoting Duke Ellington and he said there's only two

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Speaker 1: kinds of music, good and bad. The rest. I mean,

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Speaker 1: all the genres can be good and they all offer

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Speaker 1: me something. But I really really love singer songwriters. Pop

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Speaker 1: music is great as his country. I love them both,

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Speaker 1: but so much of it today is written by other

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Speaker 1: people for other people, So it's really hard for me

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Speaker 1: to feel connected to those artists. I might love listening

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Speaker 1: to them on the radio, but I don't feel a

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Speaker 1: connection unless I know someone has written their own song.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm so thrilled for today's guest because I

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Speaker 1: am a fan. He's so talented and when I reached

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Speaker 1: out to interview him, he said yes, and he lives

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Speaker 1: in New York, so we get to do this one

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Speaker 1: in person in studio, which, as you know, is always

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Speaker 1: so fun. He's a renowncinger songwriter. He's toured with everyone

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Speaker 1: from Kelly Clarkson to Jason maraz One Republic to OAR.

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Speaker 1: It's Eric Hutchinson.

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Speaker 2: Thanks, welcome to YUP, Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for being here.

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Speaker 2: I love the little bio. It makes you know nice

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Speaker 2: you're here.

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Speaker 1: It's nice to hear someone talk about your career, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just having a nice little bio is like, oh,

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Speaker 2: it does sum up your life a little bit. It's

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Speaker 2: a little highlights.

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Speaker 1: But the beauty of this as we get an hour

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Speaker 1: to really talk about your life deep. We're going deep.

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Speaker 2: How did you find out about my music? I don't

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Speaker 2: even know.

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Speaker 1: My husband, who's the next room, lived in DC.

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Speaker 2: Okay and where I'm from.

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Speaker 1: Yep, he was working in politics. I was in New

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Speaker 1: York media. We sort of split our lives before we

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Speaker 1: got married, and he was a big fan and might

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Speaker 1: have seen you at nine thirty I'm not really sure,

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Speaker 1: but turned me on to your music, and I fell

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Speaker 1: in love instantly because Eric, you do all the things.

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Speaker 1: You have an incredible voice, which, thank you. I need that.

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Speaker 1: No offense to Bob Dylan. I need a great voice.

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Speaker 1: It's fine, Derek. Derek just cringed because I'm on record.

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Speaker 1: It's already out there that I don't like him. It's okay, Well,

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Speaker 1: if I may.

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Speaker 2: I read a book about Bob Dylan, the one that

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Speaker 2: they made the movie out of. I went back and

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Speaker 2: read the book, and the biggest takeaway from that was

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Speaker 2: even from the beginning, like fifty percent of the population

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Speaker 2: did not like Bob Dylan because of his voice, Like

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Speaker 2: that's been the thing. Not from the beginning, people were like,

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Speaker 2: he's kind of annoying, Like yeah, okay, just sort of

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Speaker 2: over time, the other gotten louder and louder.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we feel better. But you do all the things.

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Speaker 1: You have an incredible voice. I love your lyrics. Your

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Speaker 1: songwriting is incredible. But you also and I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you know how this sounds to you, but you

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Speaker 1: write a really catchy song. I mean, your melodies are

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Speaker 1: so good. In fact, when you listen to them, they

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Speaker 1: sound familiar, like you've already heard them somewhere, but you haven't.

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Speaker 1: They are yours, and they're so good, and they always

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Speaker 1: make me wonder how no one written this yet, because

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Speaker 1: it's so perfect, these combinations of notes and lyrics. It's

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Speaker 1: too perfect.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. I mean, that's the first thing I do

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Speaker 2: when I write a song, as I spend a couple

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Speaker 2: of days trying to figure out if it's someone else's

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Speaker 2: song or not.

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Speaker 1: Are you serious?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. I know a lot of songwriters that

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Speaker 2: do that. But a lot of the times why it

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Speaker 2: sounds good to you while you're writing is because you've

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Speaker 2: already heard it somewhere else before.

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Speaker 1: You know, this is fascinating because I remember reading Paul

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Speaker 1: McCartney wrote yesterday, Yes, and he was convinced it existed somewhere.

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Speaker 1: So he was calling up like Tony Bennett, like everyone

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Speaker 1: he knew and like humming him.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, it would have been so much harder

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Speaker 2: back then. Now I just see, know, sort of type

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Speaker 2: it into Spotify. I'll just sort of it's easier to

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Speaker 2: like figure it out. But back then, you know, you'd

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Speaker 2: be like going to the library looking at the encyclopedia.

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Speaker 1: Or making a phone call and calling someone. And he

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Speaker 1: was shocked that no one had heard that melody before, right,

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Speaker 1: And so yeah, I mean it's not a it's not

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Speaker 1: a diss to say your song sounds so familiar.

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Speaker 2: It's just no, I love that I'm obsessed with songs

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Speaker 2: that it's sort of hard to imagine the world existing

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Speaker 2: without those songs. Yes, Like Nora Jones, you know what's

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Speaker 2: the big one?

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Speaker 1: Well, there's come Away with Me. But yeah, on the

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Speaker 1: other one, don't know why, don't know why? Right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm just.

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Speaker 2: Like I hear that song and I'm like, how is

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Speaker 2: that song only in the twenty first century, you know,

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Speaker 2: like or I just learned recently that Frank Sinatra's New York,

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Speaker 2: New York that song is from like nineteen eighty, you know,

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Speaker 2: like he was doing most of his career. That song

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Speaker 2: wasn't even on his radar yet or anything. And so

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Speaker 2: I love that kind of stuff. So I do, like

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Speaker 2: I try to have a song and ideas for songs

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Speaker 2: that feel like, how is this not an idea yet

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Speaker 2: or how That's why sometimes to my detriment, you know, like,

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Speaker 2: I try really hard to not write songs that I

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Speaker 2: feel like I've heard before. Sure, but a lot of

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Speaker 2: people want to hear songs they've heard before, or you know,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of big ideas that people or like, well,

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Speaker 2: I'd like a breakup song, and I'm like, I don't

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Speaker 2: really do those. You know, there's plenty of them out there.

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Speaker 2: So I like the idea of the songs feeling familiar.

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Speaker 2: It's like a warm hug.

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Speaker 1: It feels like a warm hug. Your songs feel like

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Speaker 1: a hug, and I love them. And what's great is

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Speaker 1: they're also very layered, so you can listen once and

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Speaker 1: think this is great immediately, but then over time, there's

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Speaker 1: so much more.

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Speaker 2: Well, you said about like sad songs when you're sad,

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Speaker 2: and that was a big shock to me. At my

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Speaker 2: first album came out, I made it, and to me

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Speaker 2: it was a very sad record about not being able

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Speaker 2: to like settle down or find love or anxiety, and

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Speaker 2: it was such a shock to everyone. Be like, I

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Speaker 2: love this album. I put it on when I'm cleaning

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Speaker 2: the house, and I'm like, the lyrics are very much

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Speaker 2: like me being lost in my twenties, But that's not

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Speaker 2: what people are picking up on or whatever. Even like

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Speaker 2: my most popular song rock and Roll is like a

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Speaker 2: is sort of a cynical look at like going out

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Speaker 2: to the clubs and and but people don't hear that.

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Speaker 2: They hear like it's a fun song about going out

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Speaker 2: and meeting people.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think Nate Raylift said the same thing about Sonovich.

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Speaker 1: People hear it as like a drinking song, and he's like, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: this is I quit drinking and this is the song

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Speaker 1: of me and how hard it was to quit drinking.

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Speaker 1: I mean, listen, you put him out there, then it's mine. Definitely,

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Speaker 1: it's mine, right. You no longer have ownership over my

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Speaker 1: interpretation of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've almost stopped trying to explain what songs are about.

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Speaker 2: And my shows, I'll talk, but I could tell ten

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Speaker 2: different intro stories about each song depending on what I

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Speaker 2: want to talk about, but in generally, yeah, I don't

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Speaker 2: like to talk too much about them because I don't

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Speaker 2: want to take away what other people are thinking.

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Speaker 1: And their connection to it. Yeah, well I like that.

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Speaker 1: So on this pod we talk a lot about career

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Speaker 1: arcs and how we navigate our careers, but also mental

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Speaker 1: health parentings. You're such a perfect guest in so many ways.

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Speaker 1: But do you do a lot of podcasts?

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Speaker 2: I do a fair amount of podcasts. I guess I'm

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Speaker 2: happy to be asked, And it just depends what kind

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Speaker 2: of what the vibes like.

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Speaker 1: Well, what do you look for, what do you what

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Speaker 1: do you like in a podcast.

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Speaker 2: I've been reflecting because Mark Maron announced that he's going

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Speaker 2: to stop his podcast, and I've really been thinking about

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Speaker 2: how much he sort of helped shape the modern podcast

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Speaker 2: because he was very therapized, and you know, like I

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Speaker 2: just feel like he sort of created this thing of like,

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Speaker 2: let's talk long format for a while, and I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: maybe ask you some questions you wouldn't normally ask. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and it's sort of a throwback to like old seventies

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Speaker 2: TV talk shows and things like that. But I just

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Speaker 2: think I learned a lot about artists and and myself

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Speaker 2: from listening to podcasts, especially Mark Maren's, but other ones too,

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Speaker 2: where I started to realize, like, oh, right, all my

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Speaker 2: heroes are like artists and musicians and writers and and

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Speaker 2: they're all kind of broken people, you know. And maybe

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Speaker 2: that's really obvious, but I feel like it's kind of

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Speaker 2: a newer idea for our culture of like people are

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Speaker 2: messed up inside. Maybe yeah, the older generation would say,

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Speaker 2: like we talk about it too much now, but I

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Speaker 2: feel like podcasts have really helped bring that stuff into

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Speaker 2: the world.

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Speaker 1: I think you're right, And I think it's sort of

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Speaker 1: a perfect storm where people of a generation you know,

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Speaker 1: from you to Mark say, because he's older than us,

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Speaker 1: but you know, we've been through some stuff, We've gotten

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Speaker 1: therapy as generation, right, and now we have this medium,

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Speaker 1: this platform that didn't exist for the generation before us

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Speaker 1: to talk about it all. And so it's like all

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Speaker 1: the things and now we're at an age where we're,

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Speaker 1: you know, our lives are changing in my case. You know,

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Speaker 1: for women, our bodies are changing, we're maybe changing the

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Speaker 1: way we think about our careers, and so it's all

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Speaker 1: happening at the same time. And I think that's why

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Speaker 1: you've seen such a sort of explosion of these kind

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Speaker 1: of podcasts talking about mental health, career, this age in.

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Speaker 2: Quotes, you know, yeah, and what we're all going through.

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Speaker 2: I also think I was talking to a friend of

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Speaker 2: mine and her mom, you know, who's a boomer generation,

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Speaker 2: and I also feel like we're the first generation that's

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Speaker 2: each generation has had like these traumatic things going on

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Speaker 2: where they didn't have time. I feel like we're the

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Speaker 2: first generation that has the luxury of time to sit

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Speaker 2: around and go to therapy and think about our family

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Speaker 2: generation and traumas and things like that. And just I

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Speaker 2: feel like, yeah, we have more time than ever. There's

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Speaker 2: more and more things. There's apps, we can get everything

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Speaker 2: delivered to us, we can do you know, we have

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Speaker 2: lots of time, that's true. Yeah, So it's either going

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Speaker 2: to binge that new TV show, or we're going to

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Speaker 2: go on a podcast and talk about your feelings.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and listen, we normalize talking about your feelings here,

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Speaker 1: like when you talk about mental health. It makes it

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Speaker 1: easier to talk about mental health.

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Speaker 2: For sure. And that was something I started bringing more

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Speaker 2: into my music. And that was not something I grew

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Speaker 2: up with necessarily. And you know, I think I grew

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Speaker 2: up in a world you go to a therapist when

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Speaker 2: you've got a problem, or you tell everyone crazy, or

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Speaker 2: you know, yeah whatever, you know, So that was sort

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Speaker 2: of what my thought was freudy and you know, sitting around, Yes,

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Speaker 2: maybe a little more off. I don't know, uh.

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Speaker 1: Huh, yeah. I'm very alarmed before we get into sort

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Speaker 1: of your life, I'm very alarmed. We don't have a

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Speaker 1: song of the summer.

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Speaker 2: It is July.

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Speaker 1: What is wrong? What does this say about our country

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Speaker 1: right now?

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Speaker 2: I always think it's like a viral video. You can't

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Speaker 2: pick the song of the summer. It just kills. It

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Speaker 2: will just appear, you know, when nobody saw Chapel Roone

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Speaker 2: coming true and then all of a sudden she was everywhere.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know, it's like it'll just it will

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Speaker 2: come from the heavens at some point. Okay, but you

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Speaker 2: know it could be August. It could be for.

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Speaker 1: Me, that's late for me.

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Speaker 2: But okay, all right, I just what has been your

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Speaker 2: song of the year so far. Is there a song

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Speaker 2: that's kind of I'm trying to think I know what

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Speaker 2: mine is. Actually, as I say that, I have a

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Speaker 2: six almost seven year old daughter. Yes, the song that's

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Speaker 2: probably number one on my Spotify right now is Apitae

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Speaker 2: by Oh Don't even Rosie and Bruno Mars.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was Rose.

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Speaker 2: Someone told me it's Rosie.

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Speaker 1: My son loves that song. Yeah, I mean it's written

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Speaker 1: for a child.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a drinking song. Actually, yeah, it's a Korean

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Speaker 2: drinking song.

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Speaker 1: Yep.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I've heard that song probably a thousand times

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Speaker 2: so far.

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Speaker 1: Same. I'm just looking at my current list my song

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Speaker 1: of the year. Well, I'm into Chapel Roone, Greasy Abrams.

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Speaker 1: I'm really enjoying listen. I gotta say Benson Boone is

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Speaker 1: churning out hit after hit after hit for me and

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Speaker 1: my son.

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Speaker 2: I feel like there was Benson Boone before he did

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Speaker 2: the flips off of Yes the Grammys, Like apparently people

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Speaker 2: knew he could do that. I didn't know that. It

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Speaker 2: was like such a simple thing, and now it's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: that guy does flips. We like his music. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I once did a show with uh was it? I

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Speaker 2: can't remember the band, but we were doing a college show.

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Speaker 2: It was like a bunch of that was random acts

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Speaker 2: together and I was talking to him backstage and he's like,

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Speaker 2: I'm about to go on. I'm like cool, and then

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Speaker 2: I'm talking to him and then a second later he's

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Speaker 2: sprinting onto the stage. He does like five flips in

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Speaker 2: a row, lands directly in the center and starts singing

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Speaker 2: on the microphone. Panic at the disco. That's who it was.

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Speaker 2: Oh they're great too, And I was like, that's how

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Speaker 2: you make an entrance, you know, yes, but I feel like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: Benson Boone is he's he's done the flip and then

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Speaker 2: everything else came after, even though already had a massive hit.

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Speaker 1: But I think it did. But he's he's been, he's

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Speaker 1: been really fun to listen to. I just discovered Tours. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: the British band of Brothers.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I don't. I just know the name and yeah,

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Speaker 2: they're like I feel like they're one of these bands

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Speaker 2: to me that I hear the song and there's like

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Speaker 2: three that I know, Yes, half the words do without trying,

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Speaker 2: but I don't know what they are or who they are.

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Speaker 1: I'm really loving them right now, and they're very much underground,

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Speaker 1: and I don't want everyone to discover them, but but

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Speaker 1: let it part out.

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Speaker 2: We'll keep them just to you underground.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So you mentioned a daughter, and I remember when

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Speaker 1: my son was in the womb and then firstborn, I

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Speaker 1: was very I took very seriously what kinds of music

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Speaker 1: I played for him and introduced him to. There were

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Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of beatles, lots of bells, am,

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Speaker 1: lots of Simon and garfunk call. I wanted harmonies to be,

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Speaker 1: you know, something he could hear and he can't he can't.

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Speaker 1: What did you choose as a musician yourself to introduce

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Speaker 1: your daughter to at a very very young age.

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Speaker 2: I think, in general, just the idea of music is

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Speaker 2: important to me. I wanted to get out as soon

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Speaker 2: as I could of the child music world, but seeing

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Speaker 2: that she loved it so much, I wasn't going to

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Speaker 2: get mad at it. But I sort of believed that

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Speaker 2: music I saw it was written like this, that like

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Speaker 2: music is like speaking a language.

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Speaker 1: Yep.

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Speaker 2: And saying that like music runs in your family is

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Speaker 2: sort of like saying that speaking French runs in your family.

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Speaker 2: You know, if you're speaking French from day one, they're

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Speaker 2: going to know how to speak French. So it's like

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Speaker 2: to me, if there's just music around, and that's what

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Speaker 2: it was like for me, was there was just music playing.

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Speaker 2: My parents weren't like performing music around the house, but

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Speaker 2: there was always the radio or records and CDs and

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Speaker 2: things like that. So I've just tried to play as much.

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Speaker 2: And but my daughter's getting to a point now where

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Speaker 2: she already she wants to go against whateverything I am showing.

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Speaker 2: I like, of course, but you know, I know it's

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Speaker 2: the long game that one day I'll be gone. She'll

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Speaker 2: be like, ah, this dumb song reminds me of my dad,

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Speaker 2: you know. So like every song she's being exposed to

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Speaker 2: is going to be interesting. And so we listened to

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Speaker 2: like a radio station in the morning and she we

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Speaker 2: just she wants to know what the people look like.

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Speaker 2: That's like the one. I don't know if your son

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Speaker 2: is like this, but like there's so much like she

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Speaker 2: wants all the information about what is this. I want

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Speaker 2: to see a picture. Is this an old picture? Is

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Speaker 2: it a new picture? Are they dead or they live?

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Speaker 2: Because I know you realize how many artists are dead.

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Speaker 2: I'm like playing the song, you know, and she's so

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Speaker 2: we have a lot of talks about that sort of thing. Okay,

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Speaker 2: but the Beatles were, you know, religion in my house,

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Speaker 2: so I've certainly like played it up. But she definitely,

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Speaker 2: you know, has to like back it off. But she

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Speaker 2: knows ten Beatles songs, so yeah about you know at least,

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Speaker 2: so that's good. But yeah, in general, she got a

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Speaker 2: record player for the first time after trying not to forever.

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Speaker 2: I live in the city, I didn't have the space.

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Speaker 2: But then we were at a hotel and like I

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Speaker 2: saw my daughter like messing with this record player that

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Speaker 2: was in the lobby, and I was like instantly on

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Speaker 2: the internet ordering one for us. So I'm kind of

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Speaker 2: getting back into that. But I love a lot of

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Speaker 2: old soul music. She just learned a Nat King Cole

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Speaker 2: song for the singing class she did, and I was

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Speaker 2: just like thrilled with that. So love that. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: don't know.

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Speaker 1: I've been thinking recently, Arthur chanres of music that are

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Speaker 1: not appropriate to play for a young child. For example,

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Speaker 1: for example, if you're a fan of gangster rap or

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Speaker 1: death metal, yeah, okay, maybe you're you are a producer

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Speaker 1: of this music and then you have a kid. Is

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Speaker 1: it appropriate to introduce this music to like your two

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Speaker 1: year old?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've thought about this a lot. Do Chi is

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Speaker 2: a person we're having a tough time with because there's

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Speaker 2: I mean, she likes her a lot. We me and

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Speaker 2: my wife really like her a lot, but she doesn't

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Speaker 2: have a lot of clean versions of things like that.

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Speaker 2: Kendrick Lamar tends to have a lot in there. We Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I don't depends how you feel about censorship. I guess

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Speaker 2: one of my least favorite things that I'm like have

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Speaker 2: like a visceral thing is kids Bop. Actually as a

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Speaker 2: music person, like I just I really I would much

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Speaker 2: rather play the real version and have a conversation about

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Speaker 2: why they said this word or that word, as opposed

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Speaker 2: to I just find kids Bop to me is just

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Speaker 2: like sucking the soul out of everything and trying to

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I feel like there's one world and

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Speaker 2: we all live in it. There's not kids world in

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Speaker 2: adult world, So like, why don't we just let the

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Speaker 2: kid get used to this song and if they don't

404
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Speaker 2: like it right now, maybe they'll get used to when

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Speaker 2: they're older, so but I agree. You know, how do

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Speaker 2: you put on Gin and Juice by Snoop Dog even

407
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,680
Speaker 2: right now? What's the song? My daughter's into some song

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, we're gonna have to eventually explain what

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Speaker 2: this is about.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: Oh it's Taste by Sabrina Carpenter. Yeah, just just sitting

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Speaker 2: there singing it. And I'm like, but that's everybody, right.

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Speaker 2: Do you have a song like that where you were like.

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Speaker 1: Listen, I was listening to like a Virgin and Papa

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Speaker 1: Don't preach in first grade.

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Speaker 2: Sure, and.

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Speaker 1: I turned out okay, but like you know, I didn't

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Speaker 1: have the Internet where I could just go and find

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Speaker 1: out what all of this meant. I had to guess,

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Speaker 1: and so for years I didn't know what a virgin meant.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that, And I'm in first grade humming

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Speaker 1: it to like my poor sixty year old teacher, and

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Speaker 1: there's nothing she can say about it, Like these.

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Speaker 2: Songs are on the radio totally.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So yes, I had those, but we were living

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Speaker 1: in a different time. It was a bit of a

427
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Speaker 1: different time. So first let's get into you. I like

428
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Speaker 1: to start by asking what kind of kid were you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was a young kid in facts. I was creative.

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Speaker 2: I was an organizer. I would I I'm the oldest

431
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Speaker 2: of four, and I would corral people in the neighborhood

432
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Speaker 2: to like put on a play. We did a staging

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Speaker 2: of The Wizard of Oz on my front porch. I

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00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,000
Speaker 2: organized my brother and sisters to like be in a

435
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,560
Speaker 2: music group with me. So I was very much like

436
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,160
Speaker 2: the ringleader. And I'd have up to, you know, ten

437
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,600
Speaker 2: kids in the neighborhood that I'd be doing things with.

438
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,359
Speaker 2: And I don't know I was.

439
00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:57,840
Speaker 1: Were you confident then?

440
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,440
Speaker 2: No, not especially. I think I was kind of anxious.

441
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,159
Speaker 2: But similar to today, I like to like put together my

442
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,639
Speaker 2: team that I can be confident with and feel like

443
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,320
Speaker 2: I know why everybody's here. If I'm in just sort

444
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,640
Speaker 2: of a random group of people, I tend to hang

445
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:13,919
Speaker 2: back and sort of see what the dynamics like. But

446
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,080
Speaker 2: when I've like assembled people and I'm in charge, and

447
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,879
Speaker 2: I feel like I have an ability to like or

448
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 2: I have the need that I have to sort of

449
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 2: run the room, you know. And that's what having my

450
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,159
Speaker 2: band that I tour with is like it's been when

451
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 2: I'm making albums is like that so I still am

452
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,359
Speaker 2: very much like I'm putting together. It's a small team.

453
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,160
Speaker 2: I don't want to bring in on this, but yeah,

454
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,000
Speaker 2: I don't know. I was. I wrote my first song

455
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 2: when I was eight years old. I was just kind

456
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 2: of always making up songs. And my music teacher, Miss Burnett,

457
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,359
Speaker 2: saw that I was like humming these songs, and she said,

458
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,920
Speaker 2: you know, why don't you come in, like after lunch

459
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:50,239
Speaker 2: and I'll show you what we do when we have

460
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,960
Speaker 2: an idea for a song. And I came in and

461
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,679
Speaker 2: she notated the song out. You know, I told her

462
00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:01,399
Speaker 2: what it was, and I still have it and I

463
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 2: think about it older, I get because I'm like, Okay,

464
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 2: that was a person saying like I noticed you doing this, Yes,

465
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,199
Speaker 2: let's take a moment for it. And that's what we

466
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 2: do with music. We write it down, we have an idea,

467
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 2: we capture it. And so I'm very thankful for that.

468
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 2: And you know, I didn't really think about I just

469
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 2: assumed everyone had a music in their lives. It wasn't

470
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 2: until I started doing a lot of interviews and radio

471
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:25,639
Speaker 2: things where people are always asking me that that I

472
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,359
Speaker 2: started thinking about, Oh, yeah, I guess you know, and

473
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 2: it's like fascinating to me when I meet somebody who's

474
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 2: like my parents only listened to talk radio, like I

475
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 2: didn't listen to any music. And my grandmother was a

476
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 2: professional musician. She played the viola in Washington, DC area.

477
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 2: She she her main thing was she had like a

478
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:50,239
Speaker 2: string quartet and she would go to like schools and

479
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,680
Speaker 2: perform for them, or she'd play a lot of weddings.

480
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 2: But then she also got hired by touring acts, you know,

481
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 2: like when tour, when people are on tour, usually high

482
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 2: string sections in each city because it's a lot cheaper

483
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 2: and easier, And then they just read the chart and saying,

484
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 2: so my grandmother played over the years for Stevie Wonder.

485
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 2: I was just looking at his list that she finally

486
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 2: wrote it out before she died. But Stevie Wonder and

487
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:19,640
Speaker 2: Jackson Five, Ray, Charles, Aretha Franklin, John Denver, Tony Bennett,

488
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:24,119
Speaker 2: all these people before I was around or able to

489
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:24,920
Speaker 2: appreciate it.

490
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 1: That's awesome.

491
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 2: So there was just music was in culture and arts

492
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 2: were very important.

493
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 1: Well in high school, you were voted most likely to

494
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 1: be an SNL star. Yeah, why Why.

495
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 2: Because the people who were running the yearbook knew I was.

496
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 2: I had a very big school.

497
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 1: Yes, and Montgomery Montgomery Blair.

498
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 2: Yes, it was a big public school. And I always

499
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 2: I never related to like high school movies because it

500
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 2: wasn't we didn't have the quarterback of the football team,

501
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,719
Speaker 2: wasn't the most popular guy in school, because we had

502
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 2: a whole hallway that was full of kids from the

503
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 2: Philippines who like didn't give a shit about that person,

504
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,120
Speaker 2: you know, or so like our school was just really

505
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,920
Speaker 2: big and there wasn't like a center and so yeah,

506
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 2: that's uh. I was making movies and beings and like,

507
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 2: you know, I went to school for filmmaking, and I was,

508
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 2: you know, a comic kind of person, so I guess,

509
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,919
Speaker 2: but I think that I can't remember who with someone specifically.

510
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 2: I think just kind of, yeah, cook the books a

511
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 2: little bit to get me on there. But that was

512
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:33,919
Speaker 2: my other dream to be on SNL. And now my

513
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 2: wife works on SNL. I'm getting to live vicariously through her,

514
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 2: and I've learned I probably would have been very bad

515
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 2: at that show because it's really hard and you have

516
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 2: to be good at doing things at night, which I'm

517
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 2: not yet at and quickly and yeah, well.

518
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 1: I have your superlative photo right here.

519
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 2: Oh wow, there it is, and that's my blonde hair.

520
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 1: And your yearbook for photo from senior year. Thank you

521
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: for yes, Yes, for sure. I made an album about

522
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 1: being in high school because I had some unfinished feelings.

523
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 2: About it all. So I don't like high school.

524
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 1: Neither did I. I don't understand the people who were

525
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 1: like high school was awesome.

526
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you I figured it away. I figured

527
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 2: it out. People that like high school like most things,

528
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 2: they're like, high school was great, college was great, my

529
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 2: marriage is great, my kids are great. They're just like

530
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 2: happy people, you know.

531
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: I just people you're talking about my husband in the

532
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 1: next room were like, oh I loved high school and everything.

533
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, amazing insights. I yeah, I did not particularly

534
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 2: love high school.

535
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: What does that mean for us? Do we hate everything?

536
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,400
Speaker 2: Means we have to process things more, we have feelings

537
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 2: sense it is, you know, it has to I don't

538
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 2: know what I think of something right away, you know.

539
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 2: So I made a whole like kind of album out

540
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 2: being back in high school in the nineties, and I

541
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 2: made it in the style of all the nineties music,

542
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 2: and that sort of helped This is Class of ninety eight. Yeah,

543
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,360
Speaker 2: kind of helped process some of that stuff.

544
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: I'm in therapy to process some of that stuff. Okay,

545
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 1: so you end up going to college in Boston's where

546
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: I'm from, and then you sign with Madonna's Maverick Records.

547
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: But what happens.

548
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 2: I got signed to Maverick Records, and I was very excited,

549
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 2: and I didn't realize I'd been trying for several years.

550
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,199
Speaker 2: I've been just doing whatever I could. I didn't know

551
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 2: anybody in the music world. Even though my grandmother was

552
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 2: a viola player, she didn't have any connections. So I

553
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 2: was just like blindly trying to figure out how to

554
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 2: be a musician. And I finally get signed to this label,

555
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 2: Maverick Records, which is yes, Madonna had started the label.

556
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 2: Now her manager was running it, and I didn't realize, Like,

557
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 2: as I was having all these meetings, I was just

558
00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 2: so excited that the next part of my life was happening.

559
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 2: Let's say goodbye to all the losers that were holding

560
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 2: me back, yep. And they didn't realize that all the

561
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 2: walls and the whole place were on fire while I

562
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 2: was like signing it. So I got into Maverick Records

563
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 2: and I started working on some music with a couple

564
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 2: of producers. I was staying out in La there were

565
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 2: you know, the label was giving me a hotel and

566
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,360
Speaker 2: it's the dream. Yeah, it was like, this is amazing.

567
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 2: And then Maverick Records folded. I get a call from

568
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 2: my manager who's like, you can stay in the hotel tonight.

569
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 2: You can't stay in the hotel tomorrow. Everything's on hold.

570
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,479
Speaker 2: They're going to like it's being swallowed up by Warner Brothers.

571
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 2: They're going to go through the whole catalog and they're

572
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 2: going to decide what they want to do. I hadn't

573
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 2: even made any music yet, so like there was nothing

574
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 2: to like be like, Okay, this sounds good or not.

575
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 2: It was just a random signing. So that fell apart.

576
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: And how devastating was it?

577
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 2: Quite?

578
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 1: Yeah?

579
00:27:55,560 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 2: Quite? Who's just using And I was probably twenty five,

580
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 2: But it felt like okay, that was that was the chance.

581
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 2: And yeah, it didn't happen, and I have to talk

582
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 2: to all those losers again that were holding me back.

583
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: Right yep.

584
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,880
Speaker 2: But eventually, but eventually, so the one thing that Maverick

585
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 2: gave me it turned out they had like a pay

586
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 2: or play in the contract there was. They had to

587
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 2: give me a check to go away pretty much to

588
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 2: cancel my contract. So they gave me this check, and

589
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 2: I at this point, i'd moved back home. I was

590
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,199
Speaker 2: living with my parents for a while because I was

591
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 2: just trying to figure things out, and I spent a

592
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 2: lot of time thinking about, Okay, what do I do

593
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 2: with this check? Do I start a new chapter of

594
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 2: my life? Do I try to put a down payment

595
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 2: on a house and just kind of, you know, move

596
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 2: on from all that?

597
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: Was it a sizable check.

598
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 2: It was forty thousand dollars.

599
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: It's a good amount of much.

600
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 2: It was a good amount of money. Yeah, And for

601
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 2: that for me, that was like, you know, what I

602
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 2: was making in a year or something crazy and probably

603
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,959
Speaker 2: more I was. I was not making anything, and I

604
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 2: just kept feeling like I couldn't. I'd been trying for many,

605
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 2: many years to make a proper album and I could

606
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 2: never do it. And I just felt like, I don't

607
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 2: think I can move on with my life. I'm going

608
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 2: to always feel like what if, you know? And so

609
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 2: I decided to like use this money to make the

610
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 2: album myself, and I reached out to some people through

611
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 2: my space, and I was able to contact a couple

612
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 2: of professional, you know, professional people in the world who

613
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 2: were willing to take my money and help me, and

614
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 2: I made this album just kind of as a last

615
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 2: ditch effort. This sounds like that, sounds like this was

616
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 2: the album and I finished it and I really liked

617
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 2: it and was really felt like a very exciting time

618
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 2: for me. But I didn't really know what to do

619
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 2: with it after that. I was I've now broke again

620
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 2: because I'd spent with all the money making the album.

621
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 2: And my old manager used to really make fun of

622
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 2: me for He's like, you spent all of the money.

623
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 2: These people saw you coming a mile away. They were like, sure,

624
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 2: we'll help you, kid.

625
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: But we need it all. Yes, it's gonna cost all

626
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: of that money. Yeah, but there's so many good songs.

627
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 2: Thank you sounds like this.

628
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: Okay, it's all right with me. I love oh, I

629
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: love all over Now. All Over Now is one of

630
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 1: my favorite songs of yours.

631
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 2: Love it, Thank you gorgeous.

632
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 1: It's a gorgeous, fun, great song and it does well

633
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: the album.

634
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 2: So do you remember Prez Hilton very well? I know

635
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 2: pres Oh, Okay, me too. So a friend of mine

636
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 2: from high school. I didn't know what to do. I

637
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 2: just moved to New York City. I was dating my

638
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 2: now wife, and I had really no prospects that they

639
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 2: had this album done that I felt I had to do.

640
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:53,959
Speaker 2: And now I was sort of not sure what to do.

641
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 2: And I'm going around doing my shows and things, whatever

642
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 2: I can put together. And my friend from high school says, Hey,

643
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 2: Perez Hilton's always posting on there, and I feel like

644
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 2: he'd like your music. I'm just going to send it

645
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 2: to him. I'm like, great, let me know how that is.

646
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

647
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 2: I didn't really know Perez except my sister liked him,

648
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 2: but this was the height of the blog culture and

649
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 2: he was getting just so many eyeballs. And so my

650
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 2: friend called emailed him and said, like, this is my

651
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 2: friend Eric. He just finished an album. Here's some songs.

652
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 2: I think you'd really like it. You should put it

653
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 2: on your blog. Wow. And he did. And it was overnight,

654
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 2: Like I was in California. I woke up my flip

655
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 2: phone that already melted into the table with so many

656
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 2: ten nine text messages from people saying, oh my gosh,

657
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 2: and like overnight he had posted a few songs and

658
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:49,719
Speaker 2: it had just started to explode on iTunes and it

659
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 2: was a great day, one of the best days of

660
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 2: my life, and all of a sudden, everybody was coming

661
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 2: out of the woodwork to want to be involved.

662
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: Yeah.

663
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 2: So you know, there's that thing about is it luck?

664
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 2: Is it talent? Is it timing?

665
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 1: Right?

666
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 2: The older I get, the more it's a lot of luck,

667
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 2: you know.

668
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's also what you do in those moments. Yeah,

669
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: you know, the Maverick falls apart, you still wanted to

670
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 1: go write that album, and you made that album because

671
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: you didn't know. If I don't do this, I don't

672
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: know how I'll look back and not have regrets. And

673
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: that worked out.

674
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I just think I know so many talented

675
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 2: people that have had different paths than me, and I

676
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 2: often just wondered sort of why. But the main thing

677
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 2: is everyone I know who is persistence, you know, as

678
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 2: I'm sure you know, and it's just anybody who keeps

679
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 2: doing it and showing up. I'll take that ten out

680
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 2: of ten over talent.

681
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, tell me the story of watching you watch him.

682
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 2: So I did say I'm not going to talk about

683
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 2: what my songs are about, but I'm going to talk

684
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 2: about what my song is about it's a great story.

685
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 2: So my wife woke up one day and turned on

686
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 2: the television and she caught a Wimbledon final, which we

687
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 2: now as the tennis world, think of as one of

688
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 2: the best matches ever. It's Rafa Nadal versus Roger Federer

689
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 2: in Wimbledon, and my wife didn't know either of these

690
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 2: people were. She laid eyes on Roger Federer, and the

691
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 2: way she puts it, she says, a piece of my

692
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 2: heart that I never knew existed opened uncomfortable for the

693
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 2: very first time. Yeah. This was after we got married,

694
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 2: and she asked me to write her vows because she's

695
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 2: not good at that kind of thing, and so I

696
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 2: was like cool, I like tennis, great, yeah, and it

697
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 2: just escalated really quickly. My wife is an obsessive person,

698
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 2: and she just went zero to sixty of like, oh,

699
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 2: this Roger Federer guy's interesting too, Like I need to

700
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 2: watch all of his matches. Yep, I need to take

701
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 2: all of them to heart, and like everything is very personal.

702
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 2: And suddenly you know, we're waking up at all hours

703
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,760
Speaker 2: of the day to like watch the matches live Australian Open.

704
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 2: She's starting to travel to go see him, and this

705
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 2: is kind of the first time in his career where

706
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 2: he's actually starting to lose some So like she picked,

707
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,359
Speaker 2: she missed like the super golden age for you. I mean,

708
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 2: it would have been easier because when she when he won,

709
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 2: I don't know. I always say, it's like, do you

710
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 2: have a friend or maybe you're this person that has

711
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 2: like a college football team and they're just their life

712
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 2: is that in the season, you know, and if they lose,

713
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 2: they're not going to go out, And that's what my wife.

714
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 2: My wife was like. So she just became so deeply,

715
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 2: deeply tied to Roger Federer and it was just it's fun.

716
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 2: It was funny. And honestly, when you want some of

717
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 2: the best times we had, we'd go and we saw

718
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 2: him play all over I had a show and do.

719
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: You with her to watch her boyfriend?

720
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, But that was this is how crazy she

721
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 2: was about him. She was like, oh my god, I

722
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 2: would never want to hook up with him because, like

723
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 2: I know, he has a wife and four kids and

724
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 2: I would never like want to disrupt that for him,

725
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 2: like that's his life. I would never want to do that,

726
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 2: you know. So it wasn't even like.

727
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: She's also married.

728
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's beside the point, she con sides up. Yeah,

729
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 2: and so she just, you know, it's like it's it

730
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 2: really took over our lives in a way that I

731
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 2: wasn't expecting, and just her, she just couldn't control herself.

732
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 2: It was just really and we try to talk to

733
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,879
Speaker 2: our daughter about it. Now she doesn't because it's over.

734
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 2: She doesn't understand what it was like. But it was

735
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 2: like this by the end, we had to have these

736
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 2: coping mechanisms and all this stuff. We're like, Okay, if

737
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 2: we think he's gonna lose, maybe we'd turned the game off,

738
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 2: you know. And she's my wife is generally a pretty happy, exciting,

739
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 2: fun loving person, but this just like channels. She's also competitive,

740
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 2: so it just like, yes, locked in all of that

741
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 2: to say, at some point I realized I was in

742
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 2: this fucked up love triangle with me and Roger Federer,

743
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:00,919
Speaker 2: and he had no idea he was even a part

744
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 2: of it. And so I just wrote this song as

745
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 2: kind of a joke for my wife called watching You

746
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 2: Watch Him, which is, you know, all about being in

747
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 2: love with somebody who's in love with somebody else who's

748
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 2: not going to take care of them. Yes, when you.

749
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 1: Say all the games, then it gets hot tells he

750
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: was the victim.

751
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 2: Watch and so I made the song. But it's I

752
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 2: really like writing songs that have a duality to them,

753
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 2: where like if you have the secret key that can

754
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 2: open it up and make it about something different. Yeah,

755
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 2: So I love doing that, and that's what one of

756
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 2: these songs was like. So most people don't know that.

757
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 2: I've started talking about it in my shows and things

758
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 2: like that, but uh, yeah, it's.

759
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: A great story.

760
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's a great song. Thank you.

761
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 1: There's a part of the song. Okay, I don't know

762
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 1: if I don't want to do this, but there's one

763
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 1: of the song at the end where you make a

764
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: choice and you do the you do this thing where

765
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,439
Speaker 1: you go from the chorus just watching you watch him,

766
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 1: but then you do watching you watch.

767
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 2: All right? What have we got a cappella background here?

768
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 2: What do you what's your I.

769
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 1: Don't have any background. I don't know, but but listen,

770
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:20,919
Speaker 1: that is religious for me. When you go up there

771
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 1: and that choice you made. I don't know if it

772
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 1: happened in the moment, I don't know if you guys

773
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: workshopped it. How did that come, because that is a

774
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 1: religious moment in that song.

775
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 2: Thank you of like.

776
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: The sky opens up and oh my.

777
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 2: God, yeah that's cool. Sometimes we we'll like do a

778
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 2: full stop live with that part. You know, just have

779
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 2: it for a second. And I can't remember other than

780
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 2: I mean, you say religious, but it is sort of

781
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 2: a church type.

782
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: Doesn't it feel gospeling?

783
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 2: And you know, yeah, yes, I can't remember how I

784
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 2: appreciate that that but uh yeah, I like that part

785
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 2: and just it was a different way to in the song.

786
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 2: And oh but I seen something.

787
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 1: It's so evocative because there's a desperation in it. You're

788
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,720
Speaker 1: like at the end and knowing what the song's about,

789
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 1: which is funny, but like it's such an evocative the

790
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: way you put those notes and those words.

791
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 2: Well, you know, once I was writing the song as

792
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 2: a joke, but once I thought about it, I was like,

793
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 2: you know, I've been in more serious versions of this

794
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 2: in my life also, and I was able to tap

795
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 2: into some of those things. And the other thing is

796
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,439
Speaker 2: every time I write music, I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna

797
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 2: make this a little more chill, something that's easier to

798
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 2: sing live, and I never do. It's like I just

799
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 2: I need that yeah thing that you feel it, you know,

800
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 2: I need to feel it when I'm singing. I wanted

801
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 2: to push, and it just makes touring very difficult because

802
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 2: I have to really take care of my voice and

803
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 2: be able to sing all this stuff. But I just

804
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 2: don't know any other way to do it. I can't

805
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 2: do the kind of mumbling right singing thing. Well, I

806
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,800
Speaker 2: do that my normal speaking voice, and then when I'm singing,

807
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 2: I sing big.

808
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 1: What do you do when you're in a bad mood?

809
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 1: Does that make you creative? Does that make you want

810
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 1: to withdraw? What do you do when you find I'm

811
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: just in a shitty mood right now?

812
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 2: Well, it's sort of like you were saying, I can't.

813
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 2: I can listen to sad music when I'm sad, but

814
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 2: it's dangerous. But I don't feel creative. I'm not one

815
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 2: of these people that feels like, oh, you've got to

816
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 2: be heartbroken to write a song, or I certainly can't

817
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 2: really do it in them. Usually when i'm depressed or something,

818
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 2: I'm just depressed and I'm not going to try to

819
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,320
Speaker 2: work on anything. Yeah, And it's only sort of coming

820
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 2: out of that moment that I will try to process that.

821
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,359
Speaker 2: I made a rule somewhere I was doing. You know,

822
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 2: at one point, I was doing maybe two shows a

823
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 2: year or something. I was on the road a lot,

824
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 2: and I had all these early songs that I'd written

825
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,879
Speaker 2: that were sort of beating myself up, and I realized,

826
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 2: so I have this negative feeling about myself, and then

827
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 2: I encapsulated on the song, and then I go out

828
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 2: every night and I display that for strangers. Yeah, and

829
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't really like this cycle that

830
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 2: I've created, and so I started a new rule where

831
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 2: I wasn't allowed to say anything bad about myself in life,

832
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 2: but also especially like in my songs. That's great, And

833
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 2: so most of my music since then is trying to

834
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 2: find the silver lining or what to learn from it.

835
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 2: You know, I will write songs as the angry version,

836
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 2: but I just it's not what I care to put

837
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 2: out into the world anymore. Wherever maybe, but it depends.

838
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,919
Speaker 2: There's certain ideas where I'm like, I know I can

839
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 2: get to the heart of this more. But like I

840
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 2: have a song called Deer that's written to my younger

841
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 2: self kind of giving me advice, and that came from

842
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 2: a place where I was really down. I'd had a

843
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 2: relationship kind of explode and I was just very lost

844
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 2: and I was angry, and I wrote a lot of

845
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 2: like angry fuck you songs to this person, but I

846
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,479
Speaker 2: didn't I didn't feel better. The fuck you songs weren't

847
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 2: making me feel better, and I was like, what do

848
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 2: I actually want out of this? I want to feel wiser,

849
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 2: I want to feel bigger. I want to feel like

850
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 2: I won't make these kinds of mistakes again. I wish

851
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 2: there was a way I could go back to my

852
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:37,240
Speaker 2: younger self and talk. And that was the idea of like, Okay,

853
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 2: this is a song about self empowerment and what to

854
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,399
Speaker 2: look out for. And that's one of my favorite songs,

855
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 2: and certainly one of the songs I think the people

856
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 2: who come to my shows want to hear and connect

857
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 2: with because everyone's got that baby version of themselves. They're

858
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,479
Speaker 2: just like, there's this you're doing there. Don't worry about

859
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,280
Speaker 2: that thing, worry about this thing. Here's what the prioritize.

860
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:00,919
Speaker 2: So I think, Yeah, so much of my music now

861
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 2: is rooted in depression or anxiety or just feeling lost

862
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 2: in the old Yeah, lost searching, and I'm trying to

863
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 2: make sense in the songs.

864
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 1: You know. Well, I love that and it's so nice

865
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 1: that you have that as an outlet. I'm writing a

866
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 1: book about my mental health right now. It's about me,

867
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: and that's very hard to do, and it's not something

868
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: I've ever done before. You know, my previous books and

869
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:28,879
Speaker 1: all of my other writing is about politics in the world.

870
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:30,839
Speaker 2: Much easier to talk about other people's.

871
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 1: Isn't it. Yeah, And so I find, you know, when

872
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 1: I'm feeling great, the last thing I want to do

873
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 1: is write about my mental health and my struggles. But

874
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: it is in a way it's important for me to

875
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,479
Speaker 1: do that and get it on paper as a writer

876
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 1: also as a person.

877
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:46,919
Speaker 2: But it's really hard.

878
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 1: It's really hard to channel my struggles, my anxiety, depression,

879
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 1: whatever makes sense of it on a page and then

880
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 1: come out with what's the point? There has to be

881
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: a point to this. What did I learn from this?

882
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: Where did it get me? You know? How did I

883
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:05,919
Speaker 1: travel through this? Do you ever not want to write

884
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 1: about a song about your mental health, about your anxiety,

885
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: about your struggles?

886
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:14,439
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, yeah, I try to write songs about There's

887
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 2: just so much, so many aspects to life, you know,

888
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 2: and I feel like for me, the challenge of I'm

889
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 2: not feeling creative or I'm not sure how to do

890
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 2: something is usually to change my environment. Whether that's I mean,

891
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 2: the biggest thing for me is I've just learned to

892
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 2: shut down being creative if I don't feel like it.

893
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 2: And I actually have a new song I'm working on.

894
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 2: That's all about waiting for something to happen, you know.

895
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 2: And I heard this line that nothing in nature blooms

896
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 2: year round, and I really like that idea. You know,

897
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 2: there has to be a period where something is just

898
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 2: growing in the ground and from the outside you're like, well,

899
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:50,919
Speaker 2: you're not doing anything so oil, You're just sitting there.

900
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 2: Where's the plant? Right? But it's incubating. And I think

901
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 2: I spend a lot of that time defending myself to

902
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,359
Speaker 2: myself and to other people of like, I'm working right now.

903
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 2: It looks like I'm having a NEGRONI, but I'm working,

904
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 2: and I can't tell if this is going to end

905
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 2: up in something I'm going to do or not. Yeah. Yeah,

906
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:12,800
Speaker 2: But I feel like exercise, walking, running, exercise is absolutely

907
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 2: huge for my mental health but also in my creative process.

908
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 2: It just absolutely gets me feeling a spark or just

909
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 2: the synapse is firing in a different way. So a

910
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 2: lot of times if I'm not feeling it, or I'll

911
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 2: feel like I have a bunch of ideas after a run,

912
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 2: or even like taking a cold shower or getting in

913
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 2: a pool, or talking to a friend or eating something spicy.

914
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,280
Speaker 2: Anything that would like kind of change your immediate feeling

915
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,839
Speaker 2: and kind of take me out of my body is

916
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 2: interesting for me. Kind of What about drugs? Love them?

917
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:44,439
Speaker 2: You have any?

918
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 1: No, No, I don't, but you know, hearing you talk

919
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 1: like that, I'm sure that's why a lot of freedom

920
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 1: people turn to.

921
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been a late adopter to marijuana. I enjoy it,

922
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,240
Speaker 2: and I think it makes me much kinder to myself.

923
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 2: And I don't know. I mean I had to, like

924
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 2: I had a hard learning curve because I would first

925
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:09,240
Speaker 2: like start I guess I can't even imagine what cocaine

926
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:11,720
Speaker 2: is like, because like I would just eat a gummy

927
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 2: and then be like, I have a million good ideas

928
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 2: and I got to get all these started right now.

929
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 2: And I'd wake up the next morning and be like,

930
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,919
Speaker 2: oh my god, I fired off like twenty emails. Nothing

931
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 2: I love more than starting a project so like I

932
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:26,399
Speaker 2: was just firing off emails to people like oh my god,

933
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 2: I'm waking up the next day they're like, so you

934
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 2: want to play Mount rushmore, Like yeah, that shouldn't be

935
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 2: that hard, you know. So it took me a while

936
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 2: to just be like, have all the ideas, maybe just

937
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 2: jot them down and then you can sort them out later.

938
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 2: But even then I still remember the seed moment of like,

939
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 2: oh I felt like a great idea and I can

940
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 2: be connected to that. Yes, yes, Like there's this thing

941
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 2: I really want to do that nobody else wants me

942
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 2: to do. But I really want to play my song

943
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 2: rock and Roll on repeat, like I want to perform it.

944
00:45:58,239 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 2: You come to the concert, you know, I'm going to

945
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 2: play that song only I'm going to perform it the

946
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 2: entire show. And it's art, man, it's art, performance art,

947
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,919
Speaker 2: it's performance art. And I mean, because people have done

948
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 2: sort of these types of things, I'll play the song

949
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:15,399
Speaker 2: four times in a row or something. But I'm really

950
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 2: interested of like you come to the show and I

951
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 2: play the same song, maybe we've fin some ways to

952
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 2: make it different, and I just want to see what

953
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 2: happens interesting. But most people are like no, I don't

954
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 2: want that, even though that's the song they want to

955
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 2: hear mostly, is it really sure? I mean, that is

956
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 2: definitely my most requested song, but I think it's a

957
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 2: song people that have been following me for a long time.

958
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 2: That's not the song I have to hear. But you

959
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 2: know it's nice, you know, if you.

960
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 1: Do that show, I want to come right. I want

961
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 1: to know what it's like to just go to a

962
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 1: show for that one song.

963
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 2: I think it's Yeah. It's like, you know, you're texting

964
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 2: your friends and you're like, hey, I'm going to go

965
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 2: see this concert and this guy's gonna play. He's gonna

966
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 2: sing the same song for the whole show.

967
00:46:58,200 --> 00:46:59,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm I'm open mind, and you're like.

968
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 2: Eight, let's take an edible and figure this out. You

969
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 2: can go get a drink for a while, you can

970
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 2: talk to your friends. Like it doesn't you're not missing anything,

971
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 2: but maybe you're missing everything.

972
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 1: Or maybe you're missing everything. Okay, what do you make

973
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: of Because we're the same age, we didn't have social

974
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 1: media as we were coming into our careers. We're navigating

975
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: the new normals. What is social media? Places like TikTok

976
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 1: done to music?

977
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,760
Speaker 2: It's funny because you reached out to me through TikTok

978
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 2: Yes did you find me from that random?

979
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 3: It was?

980
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 2: I had like a mini viral song.

981
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,840
Speaker 1: No saying something like, well, I don't really want to

982
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 1: be doing this on TikTok, but here I am doing

983
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 1: this on TikTok And like I said, I had known

984
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 1: your music but then saw you always on TikTok okay,

985
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:44,399
Speaker 1: and that's why I reached out. I was like, maybe

986
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 1: you know wants to pump pod.

987
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 2: The short answer is, I think pop music is always

988
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:54,799
Speaker 2: finding ways to just get to the point and and

989
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,839
Speaker 2: like you know, it's it seems grotesque to me now

990
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 2: or like not why I got into it, But it's

991
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 2: the same thing as what my parents or my grandparents

992
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 2: thought of rock and roll music, and it always feels

993
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 2: like a dumbing down. What is hard for me, though,

994
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 2: is to just want to engage with it in the

995
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 2: same way. But that I did. I posted like a

996
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,280
Speaker 2: really crappy video of me singing one of my songs

997
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 2: and it caught on. It wasn't like crazy, but it

998
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 2: had a little a mini viral thing on TikTok and

999
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 2: I was like, all right, this is why it's fun

1000
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 2: because when it does hit suddenly all these people are

1001
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 2: interested and like, I had just so many comments from

1002
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 2: people saying, I know every word of the song. Where

1003
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 2: have you been bubbles? Nice? Yeah, you know it's interesting and.

1004
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 1: You're engaging with fans.

1005
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 2: But then I posted another video, same exact setup, like

1006
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 2: I taped it the same day, different song, but same

1007
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 2: exact setup, no engagement whatsoever. So it does That is

1008
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:55,879
Speaker 2: the part to me that is tiring, is it does

1009
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 2: feel very much like just pulling on a slot machine,

1010
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:01,280
Speaker 2: and you're like, I don't really feel like there's anything

1011
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 2: that I can do either way on this, but you know,

1012
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 2: TikTok's what's going on. I would love to have one

1013
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 2: of my songs catch on and have all the young

1014
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 2: girls singing it to the car. Totally sure, I'll take that.

1015
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: Yes, let's manifest it.

1016
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't want to be the old person in

1017
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 2: the room. But social media and the phone in general

1018
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 2: are tiring to me, and I'm on them a lot,

1019
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 2: but I really don't like being around other people who

1020
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,720
Speaker 2: are on theirs all the time. Like I'm just yeah,

1021
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 2: but that's just where we're at.

1022
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:34,800
Speaker 1: But that's just how old we are. Yeah, that's rage.

1023
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 2: Sure, that's where we're at. It's okay, I don't know.

1024
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:38,280
Speaker 2: How do you feel about social media?

1025
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 1: Well, in a way, it's democratized news, which is great, right,

1026
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 1: you know that I can know what's going on in

1027
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:50,879
Speaker 1: Syria when we don't have reporters embedded in Syria right

1028
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:52,240
Speaker 1: through social media. That's terrific.

1029
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 2: Okay, now your real answer, Yeah.

1030
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 1: But I fucking hate it for everything else that it is.

1031
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 1: It's a cesspool that strangers feel comfortable either talking about

1032
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 1: your body or saying I hope you're raped, or sending

1033
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,919
Speaker 1: death threats, like, none of that is fun. I hate

1034
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 1: how much disinformation is on social media because I'm in

1035
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 1: the business of information and it's really hard to get

1036
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:21,399
Speaker 1: past the conspiracy theories and disinformation. I hate the immediacy

1037
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: which an idea can spread, unvetted, unedited, unchecked, no standards.

1038
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 2: That's hard.

1039
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 1: And I hate I hate what it's going to mean

1040
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 1: for my kid, you know, and all the influences he'll

1041
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:36,280
Speaker 1: have to filter through on social media that we didn't

1042
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 1: as kids.

1043
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 2: Have you seen there's this new movement are you into?

1044
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 2: Like the Jonathan Height world? And apparently there's this movement

1045
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:45,919
Speaker 2: of getting your child a landline and that like young

1046
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 2: kids are loving it.

1047
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:49,720
Speaker 1: Really, yeah, just to talk to their friends.

1048
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's how they can talk to their friends,

1049
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 2: you know, instead of the phone. And because I mean,

1050
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,720
Speaker 2: I can appreciate it because we stayed in the hotel

1051
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 2: with my daughter and she was sharing a room with

1052
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 2: her with her grandpa yep, and we're like, you can

1053
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 2: call us, and she loved it, and she's like, I'm

1054
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 2: going to call you in the morning, and like, you know,

1055
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 2: that's so cute. But they're saying that, like, yeah, so

1056
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,879
Speaker 2: there's a reason you need to be home and to communicate.

1057
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 2: I don't know, I really I feel like embracing whatever

1058
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 2: is going on is the secret to staying youthful. Yeah,

1059
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 2: And I don't want to just kind of shut my

1060
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 2: ears to it all. But that being said, most of

1061
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 2: my favorite people are not on social media and I

1062
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 2: just have to like talk to each other and catch up,

1063
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 2: which is so nice that but it takes more work

1064
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:30,719
Speaker 2: and so I.

1065
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:32,839
Speaker 1: Don't know, but you know what's nice about that. It's

1066
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 1: so true. I have a friend who's not on anything,

1067
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: and so we have to physically call each other and

1068
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 1: then I get the luxury, the pleasure of telling her

1069
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 1: what my life has been like, which I don't get

1070
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:46,359
Speaker 1: to do often because usually I'm talking to someone who's

1071
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 1: seen it all on Instagram or whatever. They're very aware.

1072
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 1: I don't get to tell the story of how that

1073
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 1: happened or where we went, and vice versa. So it

1074
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 1: is it is nice when you have an analog.

1075
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 2: And I mean I ironically I make a list, writing

1076
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 2: down my feelings and singing them for people. But I'm

1077
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 2: actually a very private person and I don't I'm very

1078
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 2: controlled of like this is what I'm presenting to you,

1079
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:11,799
Speaker 2: but I have my own life and.

1080
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 1: Because this is how much of me you got.

1081
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And I am not that interested in posting

1082
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 2: my vacation and all these other things. It just doesn't

1083
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 2: appeal to me at all. I'm an introverted person. I

1084
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 2: also understand that I think the Internet or social media

1085
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 2: appeals to people who are extroverted because they're like, I

1086
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 2: want to be out there, I want to share, I

1087
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 2: want to be talking all the time, and it's just

1088
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:36,280
Speaker 2: not my it's how I think about things.

1089
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's good.

1090
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 2: I guess.

1091
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 1: I want to go to a lightning round right to

1092
00:52:55,160 --> 00:53:06,240
Speaker 1: finish off this terrific conversation. The first question is a quiz.

1093
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:10,240
Speaker 1: You went to montgom Reeblair High School. Who is Montgomery Blair?

1094
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:14,799
Speaker 2: I think he did something in the Lincoln administration, all right,

1095
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:18,799
Speaker 2: I don't know, Secretary of State now I was a seward, right,

1096
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 2: I don't know what he did.

1097
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 1: So he was made famous by being the lawyer who

1098
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 1: represented dred Scott in the dred Scott case. But then

1099
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 1: he became postmaster general under Abraham.

1100
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 2: There we go, Okay, postmaster general.

1101
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 1: It's a big job.

1102
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 2: Yeah it was then. Yeah, yeah, they had the post office.

1103
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 2: What else are you going to do? That was social media?

1104
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 1: That was all media. That's right, Okay. Who is the

1105
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 1: best singer songwriter of all time?

1106
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 2: I mean a person I don't think it's thrown in

1107
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 2: this category, but is absolutely a singer songwriter. Is Stevie Wonder? Yes,

1108
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 2: fantamastic favorite and has written a lot of political music,

1109
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 2: a lot of protest music, but always within this umbrella

1110
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 2: of hope and positivity. And there's a lot of his

1111
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 2: deeper catalog that once I discovered that really I think

1112
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 2: helped me find my own singing voice and my own

1113
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:15,799
Speaker 2: way of approaching songs. So I mean He's amazing. Paul

1114
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 2: Simon is my other like yat, he's my number one say.

1115
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 2: I love how he can take very everyday ideas and

1116
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 2: make them feel really poetic and important and less small. Yeah,

1117
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 2: and just there's I love that of like I love

1118
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:38,319
Speaker 2: Seinfeld as well, who's not a singer songwriter, But I

1119
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:42,399
Speaker 2: just I love making little, the little minutia of life

1120
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 2: into art or something.

1121
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 1: I love that. And I've not ever thought about connection

1122
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:50,920
Speaker 1: between why I like Paul Simon and Seinfeld. That's terrific.

1123
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:56,400
Speaker 1: I love the Paul Simon songs Simon and Garfunkle My

1124
00:54:56,440 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 1: Little Town because of just that. It's so simple. It's

1125
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 1: about this very simple upbringing. It's I think rich I

1126
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:05,319
Speaker 1: was talking to Richard Marks about it. He said, it's

1127
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 1: like the same chord over and over and over again.

1128
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:10,919
Speaker 1: It's not like a complicated song. Oh, but it's so good.

1129
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: I think A lyric from that song was my high

1130
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 1: school yearbook quote. Really Yeah that cool twitching like a

1131
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,440
Speaker 1: finger on the trigger of a gun. Yeah, isn't that

1132
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 1: described you in high school?

1133
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 2: Just to get into the world. Wow, that was your

1134
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 2: year book quote?

1135
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 1: Yeah? I was pretentious, Yeah, I was a pretentious sounds more.

1136
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 2: I was thinking, that just sounds like, yeah, you're ready

1137
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 2: to go. You're like, I can't wait.

1138
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 1: Well, I hate high school. As we said, yeah, I

1139
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 1: couldn't wait to get out into the world. I was

1140
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:39,879
Speaker 1: twitching like a finger on the trigger.

1141
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 2: Of a gun. That's a nice it's nice.

1142
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:45,279
Speaker 1: To me, right, Okay, what's something you recently failed at?

1143
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 1: And that could be professionally or personally.

1144
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 2: I have to push back because I just really don't

1145
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 2: care for the term failure great talk to me. I

1146
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:57,360
Speaker 2: just think it's used by people that don't try things,

1147
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:01,480
Speaker 2: and it's what people are afraid of. I see, I

1148
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 2: try to see. I don't know. I mean, there's things

1149
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 2: that I'm like, I wish that had worked better, But

1150
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 2: I like trying things and seeing if they work or not.

1151
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 2: Like that is exciting to me, and you always get

1152
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 2: more information back and you can figure it out. I think,

1153
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 2: to me, the failures that I'm disappointed in are when

1154
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:21,720
Speaker 2: I have not stuck to my goal or my vision

1155
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:25,319
Speaker 2: and been talked out of it or compromised. Those are

1156
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:27,719
Speaker 2: the things that I look back and regret. But like

1157
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:29,799
Speaker 2: if I made some song exactly how I wanted to

1158
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,360
Speaker 2: make it and it didn't work. I'm like, I know

1159
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:35,279
Speaker 2: why I did that. You know, yep, not failure, But

1160
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 2: I don't know. Let's see what is something I have?

1161
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel as a mom. Now, I don't

1162
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:42,719
Speaker 1: like that word for it, all right, all right, all right.

1163
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 2: I have a little note in my notes that just

1164
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:48,080
Speaker 2: says you are raising your daughter every day and because

1165
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 2: some days I'm like, I haven't done anything today, and

1166
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:55,879
Speaker 2: then I see the note. Yes, but yeah, I let's

1167
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:58,279
Speaker 2: see something I have failed at. I mean, there's just

1168
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:00,919
Speaker 2: there's a lot of things I avoid because I don't

1169
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 2: think I'm good at them, and I probably will not

1170
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 2: be anymore. Yeah, Like golf is a thing I'm not

1171
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,360
Speaker 2: interested in because I feel like it just takes so

1172
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:12,360
Speaker 2: much time just to get bad at it right, and

1173
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 2: everyone takes it real seriously. And I don't know. I'm

1174
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:17,720
Speaker 2: trying to think of something else.

1175
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 1: You don't have to have something. I really like your.

1176
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:21,479
Speaker 2: Answer, Thank you. It's great.

1177
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 1: Favorite New York City venue to play.

1178
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 2: The venue I want to play is Carnegie Hall because

1179
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 2: obviously yes, and so I'm trying to figure that one.

1180
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 2: I don't care. It could be one song opening for

1181
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 2: somebody else, that could be whatever. So I'm trying to

1182
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 2: get to that. But my current favorite venue and I

1183
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 2: have never played there, and I don't know if I

1184
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 2: need to, But is the Blue Note in the Village

1185
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 2: is it's got just the best programming in my eyes.

1186
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 2: It's this little tiny club, maybe three hundred people. They

1187
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 2: did two shows a night, seven nights a week, and

1188
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 2: whenever I'm in there, I'm in there at you know,

1189
00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:59,400
Speaker 2: Monday at ten thirty pm, and it's packed, and it's

1190
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 2: half Torrin and it's half locals yep. And I'm like,

1191
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 2: this is why I came to New York City. This

1192
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 2: is what I've had in my head of like, this

1193
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:09,920
Speaker 2: is what I'll be doing. And I just love the

1194
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 2: room and the programming they're doing is really interesting. They're

1195
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 2: they're doing jazz, but they're also leaning a lot towards

1196
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:16,680
Speaker 2: more like modern R and B and things like that.

1197
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 2: So they're doing these really cool people that are willing

1198
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 2: to do a week there and do a bunch of

1199
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 2: small sessions. Cool.

1200
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 1: So did you ever go to Smalls?

1201
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,400
Speaker 2: Yes? I love Yes. I just walked by there last

1202
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 2: night actually, and there was a ton of people waiting

1203
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:31,720
Speaker 2: to get They're still there, Yeah, still.

1204
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:33,480
Speaker 1: There oh, I don't know why I thought it closed.

1205
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:35,640
Speaker 2: It not still there. I think they have like a

1206
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 2: one or two other like sister Venues.

1207
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 1: Oh god, I loved Smalls.

1208
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:40,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's good to know.

1209
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,480
Speaker 1: What's the worst kind of crowd to play.

1210
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 2: Drunk?

1211
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 1: Great?

1212
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:52,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, well there's a fine line right of like happy,

1213
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 2: like you know, I when I we did it, I

1214
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 2: don't like to perform super late. I'm tired, you know.

1215
00:58:57,880 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 2: Like we did a show at like ten o'clock and

1216
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 2: in Annapolis last fall, and I was like everyone was

1217
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 2: just wasted by the time we got on stage and

1218
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 2: we can't like get them together. But att thirty, they've

1219
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 2: had a little bit to drink, they're a little bit lubricated.

1220
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 2: They're ready to have fun.

1221
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 1: Perfect amount.

1222
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:12,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1223
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:15,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. What was your favorite TV show growing up?

1224
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 2: The Simpsons? Okay, yep, ye, Saved by the Bell, great classic,

1225
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:25,680
Speaker 2: and Yes Seinfeld Yep's Big yep yep.

1226
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 1: Okay, this is the last question. It's really important. We

1227
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 1: ask it at the end of every podcast. When is

1228
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 1: iced coffee season?

1229
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 2: Whenever you want it to be.

1230
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 1: Oh, that's the right answer.

1231
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 2: I'm actually an iced tea person, so you're allowed.

1232
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 1: That's fine.

1233
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 2: But the correct answer is around Duncan Stan.

1234
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 1: Yes I am, I'm from Boston. Yeah, I had to

1235
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 1: be well, Eric Hutchinson, this was so nice.

1236
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:53,480
Speaker 2: Thanks for Finny. This was a lot of fun.

1237
00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:55,920
Speaker 1: No, I'm a fan and I hope.

1238
00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:58,280
Speaker 2: To see live at some point. Let's do it. Okay, great?

1239
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 1: Thanks. Next week on Off the Cup, I sit down

1240
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:07,080
Speaker 1: and talk to Jenny Garth, host of the I Choose

1241
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 1: Me with Jenny Garth podcast.

1242
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 3: I've lived so much of my previous life with my

1243
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 3: eyes down and hat down and trying not to connect

1244
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 3: and trying to hide out, and I decided I was

1245
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:24,760
Speaker 3: done with that. I just decided I'm fifty three now,

1246
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 3: I've been through a lot. I have so many things

1247
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 3: I'd like to share with other women who are going

1248
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:33,040
Speaker 3: through similar things.

1249
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:37,880
Speaker 1: Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as

1250
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:40,320
Speaker 1: part of the Reason Choice Network. If you want more,

1251
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 1: check out the other Reason Choice podcasts, Politics with Jamel

1252
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:47,120
Speaker 1: Hill and Native Land pod. For Off the Cup, I'm

1253
01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 1: your host Si Cup. Editing and sound design by Derek Clements.

1254
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:54,440
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are me, Si Cup, Lauren Hanson, and

1255
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 1: Lindsay Hoffman. Rate and review wherever you get your podcasts.

1256
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:01,400
Speaker 1: Follow or subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday.