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Speaker 1: Murder on Songbird Road is a production of iHeart Podcasts.

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Speaker 1: Previously on Murder on Songbird Road. It's crucial to recognize

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Speaker 1: the ripple effect of Beverly's conviction on her immediate family,

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Speaker 1: and in Jaden's case, those ripples were more like shock waves.

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Speaker 2: Miss Jade, missed, my mom, miss a lot of people.

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Speaker 3: I made Mom promise to stay strong in the jail,

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Speaker 3: and I'll stay.

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Speaker 4: Strong for her.

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Speaker 1: In August of twenty twenty four, nearly four years after

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Speaker 1: Jade's murder, Renee and Jaden were reunited with Beverly's three

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Speaker 1: youngest children.

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Speaker 5: And I can already see Julian every single while.

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Speaker 1: The autopsy also revealed evidence that may have been mishandled,

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Speaker 1: and it involved a towel that was apparently tossed into

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Speaker 1: the body bag used to transport Jade to the morgue.

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Speaker 3: I just don't understand what person that was at that

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Speaker 3: crime scene that thought that that was the right thing

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Speaker 3: to do.

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Speaker 6: It's crazy.

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Speaker 1: What else is crazy? Of time it took for the

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Speaker 1: then forensic pathologists to turn around Jade Beasley's autopsy. It

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Speaker 1: took over a year to turn around the autopsy. Did

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Speaker 1: you ever get any reason as.

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Speaker 6: To why I did not.

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Speaker 1: At the end of August twenty twenty four, Bob and

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Speaker 1: I were back in Marian again, knocking on doors on

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Speaker 1: or around Songbird.

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Speaker 5: Road, and I was looking out the window and then

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Speaker 5: the camera was videotaping him, and.

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Speaker 4: He just kept knocking and knocking and waiting, and I

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Speaker 4: was an answer.

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Speaker 1: So a shirtless guy and he looked like he was

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Speaker 1: under the influence of drugs or a mental illness.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, he did.

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Speaker 3: I have not been here in thirty years and more.

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Speaker 1: They still have the video, really really wow. And guess

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Speaker 1: who now has the video?

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Speaker 8: You?

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Speaker 1: Yep, I'm Lauren bred Pacheco and this is Murder on

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Speaker 1: Songbird Road. Over the past ten episodes, you've heard the

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Speaker 1: many pieces that came together to form an unfathomable story

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Speaker 1: of heartbreak. You have listened to the devastating aftermath, families

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Speaker 1: torn apart, relationships destroyed, siblings separated, and a community fractured

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Speaker 1: by the shocking, controversial, and brutal murder of Jade Beasley.

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Speaker 3: The biggest thing for me is that we were able

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Speaker 3: to be boots on the ground and investigate, to really

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Speaker 3: be able to kind of unpeel this onion. It just

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Speaker 3: had to be boots on the ground what we were

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Speaker 3: able to discover in this case, because remember we didn't

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Speaker 3: get the discovery in total. You know, we didn't have

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Speaker 3: that advantage, which again to me, speaks volumes, Lauren. I mean,

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Speaker 3: the fact that we were never provided with that always

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Speaker 3: tells me that they have something to hide. What is

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Speaker 3: the motivation of people not wanting to answer questions or

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Speaker 3: not providing information? It should make you suspicious, it certainly

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Speaker 3: does me. But us being able to get down there

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Speaker 3: to Marian as many times as that we did, and

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Speaker 3: go and knock on doors and talk to people face

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Speaker 3: to face and have that communication and that contact with them,

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Speaker 3: it's just a different thing. I mean, that's it's because

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Speaker 3: we care. It would be really easy to be.

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Speaker 6: Just like guy I tried check that off the list.

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Speaker 9: You know.

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Speaker 3: It's that persistence that is what drives these things. The

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Speaker 3: persistence is what creates information for us that we can

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Speaker 3: use to potentially lead us to other information which can

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Speaker 3: potentially lead us to answers.

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Speaker 1: Bob Mada and I didn't take on covering this case

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Speaker 1: or Beverly's conviction without a great deal of forethought. We

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Speaker 1: also didn't enter this investigation with preconceived notions.

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Speaker 6: I cannot say this enough.

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Speaker 3: When you and I got into this in the beginning

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Speaker 3: of it, neither one of us had formed any kind

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Speaker 3: of opinion as to innocence or killed at all.

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Speaker 1: I agree, But also I think that the fact that

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Speaker 1: we went in with no agenda right is what ultimately

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Speaker 1: motivated us, because if we were just literally convinced she

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Speaker 1: was innocent or convinced she was guilty, we would have given.

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Speaker 6: Up totally, totally.

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Speaker 10: There would be no.

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Speaker 1: Point right once you really land where we have landed now,

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Speaker 1: and that was not an easy place to land, because

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Speaker 1: what you're doing is you're opening yourself up for not

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Speaker 1: just criticism, but real animosity. Yeah, because people like to

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Speaker 1: believe if something was tried that it's done, it's finished.

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Speaker 1: You don't go back and muddy.

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Speaker 5: Up the waters.

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Speaker 1: And it's a difficult thing too, because we know that

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Speaker 1: we're dealing with very real lives and very real emotions,

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Speaker 1: very real grief and trauma. It has taken us well

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Speaker 1: over a year and a half to reach the point

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Speaker 1: we're at now.

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Speaker 3: I think that some of the bad facts, as we

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Speaker 3: call them, that exists will still have people wondering because

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Speaker 3: some people can never get over those bad facts. Once

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Speaker 3: that gavel hits after twelve people have deemed somebody guilty,

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Speaker 3: it's really hard to erase it completely because the mindset

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Speaker 3: being that, all right, well, no matter how screwed up

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Speaker 3: the trial was, the fact is that they had enough

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Speaker 3: evidence to convince it. You're that she did it, despite

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Speaker 3: the fact that it went unchecked and unchallenged, which is

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Speaker 3: really the entire point of a trial, you know, to

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Speaker 3: vet the evidence from beginning to end. This thing was

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Speaker 3: just a railroad job in the sense of what was

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Speaker 3: allowed in and how it flowed and just all the

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Speaker 3: little things that happened. We can't do it justice in

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Speaker 3: terms of really articulating just how messed up this trial was.

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Speaker 10: You know what, you just gave me the words.

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Speaker 1: It was a railroad job that went off the rails.

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Speaker 5: It was that bad.

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Speaker 6: It was that bad.

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Speaker 1: So now, in terms of where we have landed, let's

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Speaker 1: just quickly address that. I do understand how people can

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Speaker 1: still have some reservations about what you and I have

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Speaker 1: referred to as bad facts, but it is undeniable that

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Speaker 1: Julia Beverly did not get a fair trial.

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Speaker 6: Right. There's no Quoestan.

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Speaker 1: We were told that what we now have video of

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Speaker 1: was an impossibility, that nobody's knocking on doors. We believed

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Speaker 1: it when we went down on the first trip. We

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Speaker 1: looked around and said, nobody has ring camera footage here.

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Speaker 1: This isn't the place where you get foot traffic, and

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Speaker 1: lo and behold, that's exactly what happened. And if they

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Speaker 1: had done a proper investigation, they would have discovered it

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Speaker 1: within two months of the murder. We have spent far

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Speaker 1: more time investigating this case than the four days that

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Speaker 1: had been spent when former Williamson County State's Attorney Brandon

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Speaker 1: Sonati announced Jade Beasley's death at the same press conference

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Speaker 1: in which he announced Julia Beverly's arrest, Although he spun

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Speaker 1: it this way.

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Speaker 11: There's, as I said, you know, any given time, twenty

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Speaker 11: people working this, you know, like I said, working around

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Speaker 11: the clock. These things just don't happen overnight.

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Speaker 9: You know, we have to you know, we have to.

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Speaker 11: Follow the rules. You know, we have to you know,

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Speaker 11: conduct these investigations we have you know, under you know,

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Speaker 11: constitutional safeguards and constraints, and you know, ideally like it

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Speaker 11: to be wrapped up and tied up now, but unfortunately

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Speaker 11: I said it's not. It's still going to take some time.

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Speaker 1: It took just four days for the investigation to conclude

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Speaker 1: it had gathered enough evidence to arrest twenty nine year

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Speaker 1: old Julia Elaine Beverly, though even that decision came with

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Speaker 1: a disclaimer pursue it.

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Speaker 11: To Supreme Court rule, I must remind the public that

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Speaker 11: charges are not evidence of guilt. A defendant is presumed

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Speaker 11: innocent and is entitled to a fair trial, on which

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Speaker 11: the government has the burden of proving guilt beyond a

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Speaker 11: reasonable doubt.

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Speaker 1: The state was tasked with the burden to prove Julia

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Speaker 1: Beverly's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Having processed everything you've

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Speaker 1: now heard, do you think they met that burden? Here

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Speaker 1: is the opinion of one former juror.

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Speaker 9: After listening to the podcast and listening to you guys, saw,

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Speaker 9: I feel like I've definitely got a different perspective of

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Speaker 9: reasonable doubt.

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Speaker 12: I kind of feel like because you're coming up.

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Speaker 13: With different alternatives to what there supposedly was, and I

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Speaker 13: feel like it's a different ball game.

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Speaker 1: In our previous episode, we shared audio from ring camera

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Speaker 1: footage of an unknown intruder banging on a door on

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Speaker 1: Songbird Road, just weeks after Jade Beasley's murder. Here is

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Speaker 1: that jurors reaction to seeing that video?

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Speaker 12: So many thoughts, so many thoughts. I know some people

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Speaker 12: will be like, oh, but that was two months later. Okay,

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Speaker 12: it was two months later. But also it was only

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Speaker 12: two months later, and it was a man matching the

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Speaker 12: same description and stuff, the same body build that Julie games.

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Speaker 12: And if this man was clearly on drugs, you should

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Speaker 12: have been on drugs two months earlier trying to get

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Speaker 12: somebody else's house and stumbled upon Jays.

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Speaker 1: If you had seen that video during the trial, do

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Speaker 1: you think that would have changed things in terms of

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Speaker 1: the jury's deliberation.

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Speaker 12: I think it could have, guess. I think the fact

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Speaker 12: that the guy matching the same description was trying to

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Speaker 12: get into another house on the same road.

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Speaker 1: So let me ask you this, had you been given

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Speaker 1: everything that was presented in the podcast, how would that

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Speaker 1: have impacted the deliberation in your opinion?

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Speaker 12: Honestly, after listening to you and Bob, if the defense

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Speaker 12: could have presented a case like you guys, did I

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Speaker 12: feel like we would have had to have said, should

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Speaker 12: work with guilty.

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Speaker 1: Additionally, on April third of twenty twenty one, so less

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Speaker 1: than two months after the video of the unknown porch

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Speaker 1: intruder was taped on Songbird Road, there was a home

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Speaker 1: invasion in Marion committed by an intruder brandishing a knife.

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Speaker 1: A woman told police a man had come in through

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Speaker 1: an open window and threatened her with a knife. She

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Speaker 1: was injured, but the assailant fled the scene. At the time,

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Speaker 1: police were asking anyone who might have seen something or

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Speaker 1: who might have video surveillance in the area to contact

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Speaker 1: them with information, but that request was apparently contradicted when

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Speaker 1: a local crime watch page posted the incident and people

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Speaker 1: began weighing in with tips and speculations. Here's Renee High Tower.

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Speaker 8: There was a post on the crime watch page run

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Speaker 8: by Becky Grimes, and there was a lot of people

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Speaker 8: commenting under there saying that there was a lot of

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Speaker 8: similarities in the incident with Jade.

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Speaker 5: There was another intruder breaking into a home with.

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Speaker 8: A knife, threatened to harm this woman actually did cut her,

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Speaker 8: I believe, and then got away, and they were striking similarities.

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Speaker 8: Then I started noticing the comments disappear and I sent

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Speaker 8: a direct message private message to Becky Grimes. I told

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Speaker 8: her some people are more comfortable speaking on her and

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Speaker 8: I said, I know the police are watching the page

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Speaker 8: because they get tips from social media all the time.

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Speaker 8: And she said, yeah, I know they're watching my page.

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Speaker 8: And she said they're the ones who told me to

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Speaker 8: take it down when it.

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Speaker 14: Veers into Julie's case. And I said to police and

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Speaker 14: she said yes. And I was just in disbelief, shocked

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Speaker 14: that she just said that.

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Speaker 1: Becky Grimes, the woman who ran that Facebook page, has

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Speaker 1: subsequently passed away, but high Tower has shared the text

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Speaker 1: message exchange with her that backs Renee's version of the events.

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Speaker 1: High Tower then went to the Marian police station in person.

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Speaker 2: I went down to that police station and I was

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Speaker 2: telling the alswer, this sounds a lot like my daughter's.

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Speaker 5: He first takes my information, he's got his pain going, telling.

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Speaker 2: Him it looks a lot like my dog. He put

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Speaker 2: his pen down and sat back in his chair and

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Speaker 2: just stared at me and didn't say another word. And

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Speaker 2: I said, well, I think it connects. You're not even

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Speaker 2: listening to me. You're not right now, I said, I

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Speaker 2: he was just going to quit listening your time and I left,

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Speaker 2: and I realized, this is never going to be any

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Speaker 2: kind of help from law enforcement whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: Why wouldn't law enforcement want possible tips pertaining to Jade

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Speaker 1: Beasley's murder?

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Speaker 3: What can you take away from it other than that's scary,

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Speaker 3: and it's scary for all the reasons that Flom was

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Speaker 3: talking about.

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Speaker 6: That that other part of these.

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Speaker 3: Wrong convictions that people just tend to kind of forget about,

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Speaker 3: which is when they convict the wrong person, that the

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Speaker 3: actual killer is still roaming free, free to create havoc

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Speaker 3: and make mischief and kill people. Further, which, if you're

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Speaker 3: the community that's the taxpayer that's paying for these people's

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Speaker 3: salaries who have a job.

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Speaker 6: To do, that would upset me and it should upset you.

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Speaker 5: What are they afraid of?

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Speaker 8: What?

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Speaker 1: Why would an investigation be afraid of people questioning the

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Speaker 1: investigation in the early stages of it, offering another option

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Speaker 1: that would have forced them to deviate from their tunnel vision.

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Speaker 1: Murder on Songbird Road will return after the break. Now

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Speaker 1: back to mur on Songbird Road. While the podcast was

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Speaker 1: in production, Julia Beverly from prison was also going through

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Speaker 1: trial transcripts, journaling and sharing thoughts with Renee. One recovered

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Speaker 1: memory she experienced was that the door to the bathroom

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Speaker 1: Jade was in was locked, and that Beverly spent time

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Speaker 1: finding pliers to unlock it. Here's Renee.

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Speaker 5: I don't know if she had them in her hand

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Speaker 5: or where she put them. Don't know where they went to,

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Speaker 5: but she had to go to the laundry room to

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Speaker 5: get them out of this toolbox.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm just wondering after exactly, but that's important because

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Speaker 1: they could conceivably be in the crime scene photos. Sure enough,

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Speaker 1: when we finally received the inventory listing, those pliers were

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Speaker 1: mentioned and were found next to the bathroom a top

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Speaker 1: of laundry basket in the hall. Beverly also recalled seeing

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Speaker 1: a crime scene photo of the interior front door knob,

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Speaker 1: depicting a short light hair in embedded in what appears

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Speaker 1: to be blood. This is significant because of the hair's

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Speaker 1: length and color. Beverly's hair is dark, long and curly,

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Speaker 1: and Jade's hair fell past her shoulders. Here's Renee.

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Speaker 5: She said there's a picture, and she remembers it now

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Speaker 5: that she's seen it in testimony. There's a hair in

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Speaker 5: the blood on the doorknob of the front door collected.

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Speaker 5: Possibly don't know, but no, for sure it wasn't tested.

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Speaker 5: A light colored hair and she said it may be

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Speaker 5: an inch and a half long at best. She said

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Speaker 5: you could see it plain as day.

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Speaker 1: I wonder where that is.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, So I was like, you've got to be

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Speaker 5: hidden me. There's a hair, Yes, there's a hair.

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Speaker 1: And whose blood is on the doorknob?

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Speaker 5: Jade's And that's the thing. There weren't very many samples.

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Speaker 5: I think it was twenty nine samples that were sent off.

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Speaker 1: Now was it the inside or the outside doorknob?

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Speaker 6: The inside?

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Speaker 5: And then she said that she could because she had

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Speaker 5: a storm door and then the inside door. And Julie

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Speaker 5: said she could swear in the pictures there was blood

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Speaker 5: on the storm door, on the inside of the storm door.

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Speaker 5: And they never tested it because they said, oh, it

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Speaker 5: looks like mud, never tested, never swapped, so it looks

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Speaker 5: like somebody brushed against it going out.

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Speaker 1: I've reached out to Williamson County with a foyer request

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Speaker 1: for that photo, along with several others. My request was

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Speaker 1: denied and I shared the response with Bob. Does that

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Speaker 1: surprise you?

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Speaker 3: No, I mean, at this point of course, not your

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Speaker 3: foyer request. Journey has been legendary. I mean you've gone

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Speaker 3: up to the age. I mean you've gotten some results,

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Speaker 3: but it's still just been like pulling teeth.

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Speaker 6: It's been pulling teeth.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, we get are the things that they think

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Speaker 3: are probably benign, the least problematic for them. They're the

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Speaker 3: things that they think can't hurt them. And we're still

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Speaker 3: finding shit. We're still finding just inconsistencies and things that

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Speaker 3: bug us, which only adds fuel to the fire in

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Speaker 3: terms of us wanting to see more that the concept

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Speaker 3: that there was an unknown hair on the inside of

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Speaker 3: the door that was covered in blood could only indicate

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Speaker 3: that it could have been left.

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Speaker 6: How wasn't that tested.

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Speaker 1: I've also reached out to the Williamson County Sheriff and

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Speaker 1: the state's attorney for explanation as to why it took

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Speaker 1: over fourteen months and a court order to complete and

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Speaker 1: file Jade Beasley's autopsy report while they've ignored my request.

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Speaker 1: Former crime scene investigator Katie Hartman finds the turnaround time

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Speaker 1: highly unusual.

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Speaker 10: Since you reached out to me, I talked to another

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Speaker 10: friend of mine who is a lieutenant with their homicide

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Speaker 10: that just to double check with him because he would

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Speaker 10: receive the final pathology reports on our homicide victims. And

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Speaker 10: I asked him what was the longest he ever had

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Speaker 10: to wait. He said, at the most three months, So

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Speaker 10: I thought it was an extraordinary amount of time to

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Speaker 10: get a final report from the pathologists. Do we know, Lauren,

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Speaker 10: was the pathology report done? It just wasn't released, so

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Speaker 10: we don't know.

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Speaker 1: We just know that it wasn't in the discovery and

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Speaker 1: the court had to compel the completion of the report.

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Speaker 10: And the reason why I asked that is it's dated,

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Speaker 10: as you know, twelve six, twenty twenty. These findings are

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Speaker 10: precise and they are final, so I wonder if it

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Speaker 10: was finished in twenty twenty, but it's been held up

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Speaker 10: for whatever reason or whatever mistake or whatever miscommunication for

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Speaker 10: two years.

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Speaker 1: When the defense went to reference, it realized that it

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Speaker 1: hadn't been filed and so asked for it, and the

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Speaker 1: court had to compel to get the finished autopsy, which

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Speaker 1: again wasn't signed until February fourth, twenty twenty two. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't signed, it wasn't submitted, it wasn't filed, it wasn't completed.

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Speaker 10: So it wasn't submitted to the state. No. I mean, so,

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Speaker 10: how can prosecution charge anybody with murder without a final

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Speaker 10: finding from a pathologist who did the autopsy? That's what

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Speaker 10: I want to know. Do you understand what I'm asked?

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Speaker 10: There's a lot in this autopsy that I cannot understand

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Speaker 10: how it was not submitted immediately and why things weren't

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Speaker 10: followed up on. There's a few things in here that

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Speaker 10: should have been.

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Speaker 6: Followed up on.

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Speaker 10: She had round contusions in the autopsy. She refers to

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Speaker 10: them as circular contusions. I think one's on her jaw.

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Speaker 1: So implying that she was hit with an object.

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Speaker 10: Possibly or somebody had a ring on or something like that.

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Speaker 10: You know, you got to look at all these things.

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Speaker 10: That's evidence. I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not ANME.

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Speaker 1: ME is an abbreviation for medical examiner.

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Speaker 10: I'm a cramecy investigators. So if I'm having a meeting

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Speaker 10: with a prosecutor about a murder case, I'm gonna ask

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Speaker 10: do you have everything you need? Do you have all

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Speaker 10: of my reports? Do you have the me's report. I mean,

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Speaker 10: I don't get why you can prosecute or have a

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Speaker 10: prosecution without an autopsy report. How's that allowed.

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Speaker 1: We do not wish to sensationalize the autopsy's findings in

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Speaker 1: a graphic way. But in addition to the circular contusions,

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Speaker 1: there are other things mentioned in the autopsy that may

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Speaker 1: have benefitted preparation for both the defense and prosecution if

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Speaker 1: more thoroughly examined and or tested. For example, Jade's next

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Speaker 1: showed scratches and keeping with attempted strangulation, and there were

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Speaker 1: hairs found on her body.

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Speaker 10: The autopsy is a part of the investigation. It's there

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Speaker 10: to answer calls death, manner of death, everything, what exactly

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Speaker 10: killed the person. I mean, these things are in here

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Speaker 10: about what exactly killed her and how, But there are

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Speaker 10: so many other facts that are raised, or injuries that

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Speaker 10: are raised that no one even questioned. We're doing things

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Speaker 10: that a defense attorney should have looked at and said,

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Speaker 10: well what about this and what about that? And while

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Speaker 10: a prosecutor didn't bring up some things, you know, you

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Speaker 10: can use some of these injuries to compare to Beverly's.

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Speaker 10: Does she work rings? What about a fair nail clippings?

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Speaker 10: We've got those, let's send them. I mean, I don't

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Speaker 10: understand any of it. I don't get it.

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Speaker 1: You're preaching to the converted and speaking of nail scrapings.

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Speaker 1: While Jades were tested, there was something discovered but not

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Speaker 1: further tested, that was a bit buried during the trial.

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Speaker 1: Here is Beverly's defense attorney's closing statement from the transcript, verbatim.

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Speaker 1: The DNA could have told us something from the nails

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Speaker 1: if the state hadn't been so short sighted defendants. Exhibit

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Speaker 1: seven was shown to doctor Reich after he was asked

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Speaker 1: was it only X or only female DNA found under jade?

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Speaker 1: And he had to say, no, no, it's not. These

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Speaker 1: are jades nails. These are the white chromosomes. It might

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Speaker 1: have been a minuscule amount popping on two different areas,

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Speaker 1: but it's there. It just doesn't fit the state's theory.

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Speaker 1: I'm done with this now, Judge. Of course, we'll never know,

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Speaker 1: or we don't know what was on Julie's hands, what

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Speaker 1: was under Julie's nails. The state also decided to not

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Speaker 1: test it might not fit their story unknown male DNA

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Speaker 1: under Jdb's Lee's fingernails, which was downplayed at trial.

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Speaker 3: If you're a person that's out there and you hear

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Speaker 3: of all the things that weren't done, that do exist

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Speaker 3: that should have been done in terms of evidence and

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Speaker 3: things that should have been tested, and you're still sitting

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Speaker 3: there thinking like, well, I don't care she did it.

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Speaker 3: I just pray that you never get into law enforcement.

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Speaker 3: I pray that you never get on the bench. I

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Speaker 3: pray more than anything that you never become a prosecutor,

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Speaker 3: because you have to look at everything. This is about

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Speaker 3: getting to the truth, no matter what the truth is.

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Speaker 3: This isn't about convictions, This isn't about wins.

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Speaker 6: That's the con that you have with prosecutors.

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Speaker 3: They are elected officials. The thing that they run their

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Speaker 3: campaigns on is convictions that in and of itself is

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Speaker 3: a conflict of interest with the truth because the truth

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Speaker 3: takes a back seat.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back with Murder on Songbird Road. Here

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Speaker 1: again is Murder on Songbird Road. We started this podcast

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Speaker 1: by asking whether Julia Beverly was truly guilty of the

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Speaker 1: murder for which she was convicted. Could a mother of

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Speaker 1: four with no history of violence have brutally stabbed an

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Speaker 1: eleven year old girl she had raised as her own

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Speaker 1: for nearly eight years, or was there a rush to judgment,

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Speaker 1: one that began on the day of the murder and

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Speaker 1: continues to this day. As we've dealt deeper into the case,

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Speaker 1: we've encountered individuals whose perspectives on Beverly's conviction have evolved.

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Speaker 4: It's the life we're talking about, and it's Jade's life

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Speaker 4: as well. There's just too many fishy things. It's supposed

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Speaker 4: to be beyond a reasonable doubt, and in my opinion,

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Speaker 4: that's not what it was.

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Speaker 1: That's Brittany, the woman who created a gofund me page

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Speaker 1: to help the Beasley family cover funeral expenses for Jade.

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Speaker 1: She also believed she was on the phone with Jade's grandmother, Sheila,

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Speaker 1: when Renee high Tower was desperately seeking information on the

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Speaker 1: day of the murder.

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Speaker 4: We were on the phone and all of a sudden,

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Speaker 4: she received the news and she told me Jade committed suicide.

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Speaker 4: And I said, oh my gosh, what could she have

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Speaker 4: been going through to do that? And I think she

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Speaker 4: just said, I don't know. Then we got off the

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Speaker 4: phone because she got that call from Renee.

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Speaker 1: Here are her thoughts after having heard the issues we've

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Speaker 1: raised over the course of this podcast.

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Speaker 4: Looking back in hindsight, and I'm guilty of saying things

441
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 4: and being manipulated by the media, and the things people

442
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 4: were saying were god awful, and she hadn't had trial.

443
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 4: And this is a small community. People believe the media.

444
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,479
Speaker 4: People believe, Oh, the police don't lie. Oh if the

445
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 4: court said she's guilty, they're right.

446
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 12: You know.

447
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 4: People just don't understand corruption. And people were saying the

448
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 4: meanest things. It shouldn't have been held in this jurisdiction,

449
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 4: I mean, death threats.

450
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: Even do you think, looking back that there was any

451
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: presumption of innocence for Beverly before trial?

452
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 4: Absolutely not know that it should have never been held

453
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 4: around here. It should have been in a I don't know,

454
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 4: a different state. But there's no way that they could

455
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 4: have picked a juror that didn't.

456
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 5: Already see all that stuff.

457
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 4: And then there was other things. But that made me

458
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 4: start having an open mind and started questioning things. Why

459
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 4: was her phone the only one dropped to in forensic

460
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 4: They said, this isn't CSI Miami. We can't test everything.

461
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 4: What this is a murder of an eleven year old?

462
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 4: What do you mean that's a screwed up thing to say.

463
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 4: I was convinced by the media because they made it

464
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 4: sound like she went to a dumpster as if she

465
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 4: was dumping a bunch of stuff or a huge bag

466
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 4: or something like that in a dumpster on like the

467
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 4: side of hawks.

468
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 6: And then truth is she.

469
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 4: Was by a gas pump and threw away something very

470
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 4: small in one of the small trash cans by the

471
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 4: gas pumps. So that's manipulation by the media. And then

472
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 4: the number of Titans Jade was stabbed is apparently incorrect.

473
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 5: It was not.

474
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 4: I think one hundred and twenty is what was going around.

475
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: In fact, Jade Beasley's autopsy report details fifteen specific stab

476
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: wounds to her neck and torso, with additional injuries identified

477
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: as scratches and marks consistent with defensive wounds. Yet the

478
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: inflated number continues to circulate in news reports, on social media,

479
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: and even in the courtroom. Special Prosecutor Jennifer Mudge reference

480
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 1: to this in her sentencing statement, as seen verbatim in

481
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: the transcripts. Sometimes on TV or in real life, prosecutors

482
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: pound on the table when someonould get shot or stabbed.

483
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: Not one, not two, not three, not four. If I

484
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: did that in this case, we'd be here till five

485
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: o'clock to night. So I'm not going to do that

486
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: and before senten and saying Julia Lane Beverly to fifty

487
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: five years in prison without the possibility of parole, Judge

488
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: Stephen Green said.

489
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 3: This, Okay, I have to agree that this case was horrific.

490
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 3: You have an eleven year old child stabbed over a

491
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 3: hundred times. I believe the testimony was at least one

492
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 3: hundred and four times throughout a home.

493
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: All right, So do you find it interesting that even

494
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 1: after she was convicted, you know, at the sentencing, why

495
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: perpetuate false information?

496
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 3: I mean to drive it home for Mudge, as if

497
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 3: she didn't know that he was going to sensor to

498
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 3: the max or right around it.

499
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 6: I guess as to her, that's why.

500
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 3: As to the judge, I don't know for the judge

501
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 3: to be kind of adding in, chiming in beyond what

502
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 3: he's doing legally, and on top of that, to be

503
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 3: mistating what the evidence actually was and symptomatic of the

504
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 3: problem with this case and with this trial. You know,

505
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 3: it's what we've seen for the last year and change.

506
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 3: This was a one sided trial that ended in one

507
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 3: sided sentencing, with untruths being spoken to the very end

508
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 3: all the way through.

509
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: Danny Vaie was a local reporter during the time of

510
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: Jade's murder, and subsequently reported on the investigation, trial and

511
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: sentencing before accepting a job out of state. Here are

512
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 1: his thoughts on Beverly's case in light of the issues

513
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: we've raised.

514
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 15: It's definitely taking turns that I didn't expect it to take,

515
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 15: especially with the treatment of Julia Beverly.

516
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 9: I mean, I don't know if I have any words

517
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 9: to describe it.

518
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 15: I mean, it was just so horrible the way she

519
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 15: was treated, especially when she had her baby. Nobody deserves that.

520
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 15: I don't think anybody even knew in the media that

521
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 15: she was pregnant by the time. The big takeaways is

522
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 15: just like it's a big lesson.

523
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 16: Of what not to do in a murder investigation like.

524
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 7: This, because there was a lot of things they didn't do,

525
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 7: and me at the time, not being as experienced in

526
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 7: these kinds of cases and covering these kinds of cases,

527
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 7: I didn't know what to ask.

528
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 16: These are elected officials that people are entrusting to do

529
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 16: their due diligence, and they're going to hang on the

530
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 16: words of those elected officials. And it just sads to

531
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 16: kind of realize all these years later that we may

532
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 16: have been misled.

533
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: What would you ideally like to see happen, knowing what

534
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: you now know and having had the proximity to it

535
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: as it unfolded.

536
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 16: I definitely would like to see all the angles explored.

537
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 16: I definitely would like to see the people that were

538
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 16: on that witness list who weren't call called. I think

539
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 16: there was a lot of things that could have been

540
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 16: done differently with everything uncovered, and just it's easy.

541
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 6: To hide stuff. It's so easy to hide the smallest thing.

542
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 16: You know that to the media, to a wider audience

543
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 16: that it doesn't seem significant, but to the person's happening

544
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 16: to it's the world.

545
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: We recognize that there are individuals who were and still

546
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: are deeply upset by our decision to revisit the conviction

547
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: of Julie Beverly. However, it's important to emphasize that justice

548
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: for Jade and justice for Julie are not mutually exclusive,

549
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 1: and even as this podcast comes to a close, we

550
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: remain steadfast in our commitment to pursuing both. Thanks to

551
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: the generosity of Jason Flahm, Julie Bevely's appeal is receiving

552
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 1: the attention and legal representation it rightfully deserves.

553
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 17: Let's start with what I've heard unfold over the last

554
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 17: seven minutes of the last episode, which with the thing

555
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 17: was episode ten, which had me rewinding and going, excuse me,

556
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 17: I mean the fact that you guys found the video.

557
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 17: I don't have the right word. It reminds me of

558
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 17: the fact that we live in an era in investigative

559
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:29,760
Speaker 17: journalism slash criminal justice in general, where we as podcasters

560
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,439
Speaker 17: oftentimes have to do the work that should have been

561
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 17: done in the first place, and could have been much

562
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 17: more easily done by people who we pay with our

563
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 17: tax dollars.

564
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 2: To do it.

565
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 17: But you and Bob did it, and you found the

566
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,280
Speaker 17: smoking gun. Crazy.

567
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: It's kind of heartbreaking too, because if you think about

568
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: the fact that that couple they closed the day she

569
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: was arrested, They moved in the day after, and keep

570
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: in mind, that was four days after Jade easily was

571
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: brutally murdered next door, not down the street, not in

572
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 1: a neighboring town, in the adjacent property, and no official

573
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 1: anybody ever knocked on that door, and if they had,

574
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 1: that would have been the first thing on that couple's

575
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: minds when they had that ring camera footage.

576
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 17: You can't help just feeling a sense of how it's

577
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 17: a combination of awe, gratitude and also discussed right the

578
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 17: idea that this was allowed to go on, It's still

579
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 17: going on, right She's still in prison right right now.

580
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 17: And I think about this often. Maybe you guys do too,

581
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 17: the idea that while we're sitting here, I'm in my

582
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 17: home studio talking to you and gonna go out the door,

583
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 17: and we're going about our lives. Meanwhile, Julie, if you

584
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 17: juxtapose what her reality is right now, right separated from

585
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 17: her kids, dealing with gleam deprivation of every kind, like

586
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 17: she is literally in hell right now, being deprived of

587
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 17: every single thing that a human being needs to survive

588
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 17: and thrive and be healthy.

589
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: In an attempt to remedy the situation, and because of

590
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: Jason Flamm's generosity, Beverly is now being represented by Chicago

591
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,720
Speaker 1: based defense attorney Kathleen Zelner's firm.

592
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 18: My name is Joanna Klozawska. I am an associate for

593
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 18: Miss Kathleen Zelner. You know, the basic facts of the

594
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 18: case that there was a third party male DNA left

595
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 18: under the victim's fingernails, really sparked our interests from the beginning. Currently,

596
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:49,760
Speaker 18: the briefs on appeal have both been submitted from both sides.

597
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 18: We filed the brief on appeal on Beverly's behalf in

598
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 18: July of twenty twenty four, and then the state filed

599
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 18: its brief in Sember of twenty twenty four. We filed

600
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 18: a reply brief in October of twenty twenty four.

601
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 1: All of this leading up to both sides arguing the

602
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 1: case in front of a panel of judges in February

603
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty five.

604
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 18: The oral argument was held just last Friday, February twenty first,

605
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 18: before three justices of the Fifth District Appellate Court. And

606
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 18: so now we are just waiting on a written opinion,

607
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:31,839
Speaker 18: which could take several.

608
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 1: Months, and we will update you as soon as they

609
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: reach a verdict. But here's Bob's take on the path ahead.

610
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 3: Well, best case scenario is that the appellate court grants

611
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 3: her a new trial and kicks it back down. And

612
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 3: this is best case scenario, And that the State's attorney's

613
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,839
Speaker 3: office decides not to proceed on it again, that's best

614
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 3: case scenario. Next best case scenario is that they do

615
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 3: decide to proceed on it again, all the corrections are

616
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 3: made with respect to what's coming in, what's staying out

617
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 3: in terms of evidence, and she goes to trial.

618
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: But the brutal reality is there is no scenario in

619
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: which Julie Beverly finds out next week she's walking out

620
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: a free woman. No, no, As we bring this podcast

621
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: to a clothes at least for now, we leave you

622
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 1: with these questions. Do you believe Julia Beverly is guilty

623
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 1: of murder? Do you believe she had the presumption of innocence?

624
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 1: Do you believe she received a fair trial? Do you

625
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 1: believe the state proved her guilt beyond a reasonable doubt?

626
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,240
Speaker 1: Or do you think there was a rush to judgment

627
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 1: one that began the day of the murder and continues

628
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: to this day.

629
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 6: It's never gotten better.

630
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 3: There was never a point where either of us were like, oh, well,

631
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 3: there we go.

632
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,320
Speaker 6: The ship was righted. And because it never happened.

633
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: Even if you believe she's guilty, you cannot deny that

634
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 1: it was not a fair trial, and for that reason alone,

635
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: she deserves a proper day in court.

636
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:07,879
Speaker 12: One of my.

637
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: Favorite quotes is that justice will not be served until

638
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,359
Speaker 1: those who are unaffected or as outraged as those who

639
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 1: are a lot of people have reached out to us

640
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 1: outraged when they have put together the pieces of what

641
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: went into Beverly's conviction. Where do you suggest they vent

642
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,439
Speaker 1: that outrage right now?

643
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:40,280
Speaker 3: The most effective tools social media. Frankly, between Reddit, Twitter

644
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 3: or x Facebook pages Facebook groups, you can have a

645
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 3: loud voice, and advocacy comes in many different forms. Advocacy

646
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 3: is about using your voice. Advocacy is about using your

647
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 3: mind and writing letters or emails, whatever the case may be,

648
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 3: whatever you have to make your voice heard somehow it

649
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:03,720
Speaker 3: can affect change.

650
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 6: It really can, It really can.

651
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: And in Illinois, the good news is that the Attorney

652
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 1: General has implemented a conviction Integrity Unit. We will link

653
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 1: to that information as well as information to contact the

654
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: Governor of Illinois. Bob and I, along with our production team,

655
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: deeply appreciate you and everyone else who has taken the

656
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: time to listen to this investigation. We also want to

657
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 1: extend our heartfelt thanks to the many individuals who have

658
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 1: contributed their thoughts, expertise, and voices to this podcast. A

659
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: very special thank you goes out to innocence activists Jason

660
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 1: Flomm and his wife, Kalia Ali, whose remarkable empathy, compassion,

661
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 1: and generosity have paved a path forward for Julia Beverly,

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Speaker 1: a journey we will continue to update as it infolds, because,

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Speaker 1: as British Statesman Benjamin Disraeli put it, justice is truth

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Speaker 1: in action. Murder on Songbird Road is a production of

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Speaker 1: iHeart Podcasts. Our executive producers are Taylor Chaqoine and Lauren

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Speaker 1: Bright Pacheco. Research writing and hosting by Lauren Bright Pacheco.

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00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 1: Investigative reporting by Bob Matta and Lauren Bite Pacheco. Editing,

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Speaker 1: sound design and original music by Evan Tyer and Taylor Chaqoine.

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Speaker 1: Additional music by Asher Kurtz. Archival elements courtesy of wsil

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Speaker 1: News three. Please like, subscribe, and leave us a review.

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Speaker 1: Wherever you're listening. You can follow me on all platforms

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Speaker 1: at Lauren Bright Pacheco and email the show with thought,

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Speaker 1: suggestions or tips at Investigating Murder at iHeartMedia dot com.

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts from Bob Mada, check out Defense Diaries,

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Speaker 1: and for more podcasts from iHeart Podcasts, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get the stories that matter

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Speaker 1: to you. Thanks for listening,