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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, along

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Speaker 1: with my co host of Bonnie Quinn. Every business day

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Speaker 1: we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts,

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Speaker 1: along with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets

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Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts,

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Speaker 1: and on Bloomberg dot com. You are listening to Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Markets on this Black Friday. And it is the season

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Speaker 1: for holiday shop and we know though this year it

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Speaker 1: is not about doorbuster deals. This year it is about

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Speaker 1: shopping in a social distancing world. And Paul, I know

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Speaker 1: you and Bonnie Quinn talked earlier with Danna tell Zy.

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Speaker 1: She said the consumer is pretty healthy. Yeah, exactly right,

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Speaker 1: and they're looking forward despite all the craziness in the

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Speaker 1: world here, the consumer does have some liquidity as well. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: let's let's get to somebody who's got a front row

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Speaker 1: seat on all of this. Jim Fallon is editorial director

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Speaker 1: of Women's Wear Daily. He joins us on the phone

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Speaker 1: from Terrytown, New York. So, Jim, great to have you

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Speaker 1: here with Paul and myself. The Westchester mall not too

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Speaker 1: far from you, guys, but as we are hearing colleagues

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Speaker 1: are sending in there talking about the malls and Riverhead

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Speaker 1: and so on and so forth, the outlets, everything is

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Speaker 1: very quiet. It's a very different Black Friday this year,

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Speaker 1: extremely different. And I think it's going to be a

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Speaker 1: very different holiday season overall. I mean it's if any

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Speaker 1: time is going to be an online holiday, this is

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Speaker 1: the year. And the question is will it ever go

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Speaker 1: back to what it used to be? So Jim, I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think it was. As we've heard from

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Speaker 1: retailers really over the last several years, we've heard about

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Speaker 1: this concept of omni channel kind of you know, being

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Speaker 1: online bricks and mortar, you know, talk to us what

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Speaker 1: omni channel means to you and how we're seeing that

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Speaker 1: play out this holiday season. Well, they were omni channel

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Speaker 1: basically is now utilizing your brick and mortar assets in

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Speaker 1: a way that is going to pretty much drive traffic

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Speaker 1: to your website. I mean, I think Deloitte or um

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Speaker 1: Adobe predicted a hundred and six increase in UM buy

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Speaker 1: online pickup in store curbside pickups. So you're seeing Walmart,

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Speaker 1: you're seeing Target, You're seeing all these retailers really using

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Speaker 1: their store based to fulfill orders from online, especially with

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Speaker 1: the surgeon online orders and worries over delivery and things

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Speaker 1: like that. So whereas omni Channel used to be, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, we have our store and we also have

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Speaker 1: our website and we're bringing the two together. Now, it's

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Speaker 1: really how can we use our store base to fulfill

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Speaker 1: orders from online? And yes, customers might come in, but

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Speaker 1: not in the numbers that they used to. Yeah, I listen.

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Speaker 1: I gotta say to you, I've done a lot of

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Speaker 1: shopping already and the packages, as I've warned our team

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Speaker 1: today that I've got to listen for the door when

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Speaker 1: packages are dropped because we have some porch pirates in

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Speaker 1: the neighborhood, so I've got to be careful and get them.

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Speaker 1: But what's interesting to know your neighborhood. It's a good neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: It's just they know. The packages that are delivered are

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Speaker 1: really good too. Um. But what's interesting is when I order,

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Speaker 1: I think about what's the exchange policy, how easy it

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Speaker 1: how much is it going to cost for shipping back

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Speaker 1: and forth? Because I love shopping online, but I'm often

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Speaker 1: ordering multiple sizes and doing things like that. But I

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Speaker 1: look at the store policies and that really determines where

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Speaker 1: I shop a lot. Now, No, that's that's a very

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Speaker 1: good point. And I think consumers are going to become

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Speaker 1: more and more wary and informed about those types of things.

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Speaker 1: And also the key crunch point is the delivery times,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I think predictions are now that pretty

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Speaker 1: much December eleventh is going to be the cut off.

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Speaker 1: I keep hearing different opinions. On the one hand, a

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Speaker 1: lot of people say, oh, consumers are much more forgiving,

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Speaker 1: they recognize the crunch on retailers. Uh, and so if

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Speaker 1: packages don't arrive on time, they're much more forgiving. And

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Speaker 1: I keep thinking to myself, they're forgiving until DECEMBERY when

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Speaker 1: they're waiting for that one gift for their left one

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Speaker 1: that's not arrived. And then, um, so I think it's

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Speaker 1: going to be a lot of pressure on retailers this year,

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Speaker 1: particularly the logistics systems. And again the benefit is how

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Speaker 1: quickly they can leverage their store bases to fulfill those

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Speaker 1: orders and drive the consumer to the store to pick

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Speaker 1: up the product, because again that gives the retailer bigger margin. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, the key the key question of this holiday

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Speaker 1: is going to be yes, growth of online, but what

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Speaker 1: are the margin's going to look like? Yeah, I was wondered, Jim.

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Speaker 1: You know we're seeing boxes pilot outside of to pretty

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Speaker 1: much everybody's door up and down the street here. Talk

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Speaker 1: to us about luxury. I mean, if I'm going to

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Speaker 1: spend a lot of money on a luxury watch, does

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Speaker 1: that also work in an etail e commerce type of environment?

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Speaker 1: Or I want to or do you find consumers want

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Speaker 1: to go to the store, look at it, hold it,

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Speaker 1: feel it, all that kind of stuff. Surprisingly, the luxury

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Speaker 1: players are saying that more and more consumers are shopping

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Speaker 1: online for those very high priced items. It's also forced

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Speaker 1: those luxury players to offer those items online because luxury

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Speaker 1: very much to your point, was kind of snobbish about

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Speaker 1: a lot of things, but very much snobbish about the

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Speaker 1: online experience. They thought the consumer wanted that personal touch,

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Speaker 1: personal service had to be in the store, etcetera. Now,

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Speaker 1: because consumers haven't been you know, stores were closed, they

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Speaker 1: didn't have access to those consumers. So they were setting

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Speaker 1: up a lot of online shopping, a lot of video

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Speaker 1: conferencing type shopping. Um and you know, the retailers I've

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Speaker 1: spoken to have said They've sold jewelry worth hundreds of

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Speaker 1: thousands of dollars via video conference and just then drove

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Speaker 1: it up to the woman's house and dropped it off.

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Speaker 1: So this is what I think. I think this is

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Speaker 1: something that's really dramatically different. We caught up at the

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Speaker 1: CEO of Watches of Switzerland and they talked about how,

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Speaker 1: you know, the whole idea of online shopping shifted to

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Speaker 1: we were you know, thank you Zoom and all these

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Speaker 1: other platforms that we were setting up, you know, sales

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Speaker 1: personnel with customers online and doing you know, like we

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Speaker 1: would be at a counter right like the shifting you

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Speaker 1: know that we moved to that, you know, changing kind

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Speaker 1: of how we shot and that that is something that

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Speaker 1: will probably stay with us. And I think about that

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Speaker 1: how important that could be for especially luxury goods, very

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Speaker 1: much so. And as they said, I don't think it

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Speaker 1: may slip back a little bit when hopefully the vaccines

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Speaker 1: take effect and people are protected against the virus and

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Speaker 1: so forth. But this behavior is a fundamental shift in

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Speaker 1: the way everybody is going to shop. And I think

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Speaker 1: it's the combination of convenience, if you can get that

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Speaker 1: personal service, even via Zoom or whatever. Then you might

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Speaker 1: not travel to a store, and you know, in a sense,

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Speaker 1: traveling to a store versus getting the one on one

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Speaker 1: zoom experience, you might get better attention actually via zoom.

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Speaker 1: I want, so, j what are some of the items

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Speaker 1: that are hot this year and what are some of

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Speaker 1: the items that maybe are not? UM. I think you

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Speaker 1: know you're going to see the normal electronics seems to

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Speaker 1: be taking off a lot of TV discounts today. UM. Apparel,

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Speaker 1: the sweaters that you know, the things like that. Jewelry

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Speaker 1: may do well because again it's one of the few

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Speaker 1: things that you women particularly will be able to show

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Speaker 1: off when they're on their conference calls on the computer

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Speaker 1: at home. UM. I think guys like to show off

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Speaker 1: like that new watch as well. I'm just going to

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Speaker 1: put that out there. Yes, that's true. UM, that's true

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Speaker 1: very much. UM. And so you know very much tops

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Speaker 1: because none of us wear bottoms when we're on the computers.

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Speaker 1: All right, full disclosure. I have a potum on right now,

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Speaker 1: the UM. But ironically, you are seeing some growth in

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Speaker 1: shoes and things like that. What the consumers at all

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Speaker 1: price points are beginning to under beginning to do, is

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Speaker 1: they want to treat themselves. They're not eating out in restaurants,

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Speaker 1: they're not going on vacation. So there's been this spending

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Speaker 1: boom because it's like, I have this liquidity, as you

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Speaker 1: mentioned earlier in the program, I want to do something

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Speaker 1: with it. I need a treat, and so they're spending

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Speaker 1: money on things they might not wear right away, but

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Speaker 1: they're kind of buying for when this this horrible experience

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Speaker 1: is over. Well, Jim, have a good holiday season. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure we'll be checking in with you throughout. Jim Fallon,

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Speaker 1: editorial director of Women's Where Daily, joining us on the

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Speaker 1: phone from Terrytown. Guess it's really fascinating story here. She

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Speaker 1: has positioned her company as the peloton of education by

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Speaker 1: connecting teachers from around the country to school struggling to

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Speaker 1: find teachers by taking over classroom with live stream instruction.

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Speaker 1: Let's get the latest. We welcome Shelley Barren Wall, CEO

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Speaker 1: of Elevate K through twelve. Shelley, thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us here. Talk to us about your company, about

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Speaker 1: the issue you're trying to address. Sure, thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for having me on. So when we talk about

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Speaker 1: the problem that you're trying to solve keep COVID aside.

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Speaker 1: It's a plaguing problem in the USK to old schools

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Speaker 1: and district which is of the teacher shortage. Now, in

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Speaker 1: the past, there was already a teacher shortage problem that

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Speaker 1: existed that we was solving. According to the Learning Policy Institute,

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Speaker 1: there were over five hundred thousand in teacher vacancies or

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Speaker 1: uncertified substitute teachers teaching in the classrooms. With COVID. Now

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Speaker 1: that problem has actually grown several times. So according to

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Speaker 1: the American Federation of Teachers, one in three K TALK

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Speaker 1: teachers is expected to retire early due to COVID. So

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Speaker 1: if you just talk about the problem right now, the

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Speaker 1: teacher shortage problem across the USK to our school districts

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Speaker 1: already existed and with COVID it's just accelerating at a

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Speaker 1: much higher rate. And that is a problem that we're solving.

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Speaker 1: When there isn't that great format teacher or the grade

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Speaker 1: six science teacher or the high school cybersecurity teacher not

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Speaker 1: existing in the local zip code, how can you bring

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Speaker 1: that same power of amazing teaching into the classroom by

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Speaker 1: live streaming it so that zip code is not a

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Speaker 1: barrier to the access to high quality teachings. Say, one

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Speaker 1: thing I want to ask you is you said they

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Speaker 1: were already over five teaching substitutes in our system. Why

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Speaker 1: is it so that sounds like a really high number?

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Speaker 1: Is it help me out here? Right? So, the way

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Speaker 1: you have to think about a problem about this problem

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Speaker 1: is it's not really that the supply of teachers overall. Right,

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Speaker 1: So if you look at the overall demand for teachers

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Speaker 1: as of today, there are three point one million k

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Speaker 1: twelves teachers in the school system. The supply may be

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Speaker 1: slightly higher than that. But where it breaks is the

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Speaker 1: geographic arbitrage. We do a lot of work. Let's stay

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Speaker 1: in South Georgia, dirty County, right, Sometimes it's impossible for

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Speaker 1: them to find a Spanish teacher there, or a calculus teacher.

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Speaker 1: But there's a high supply of teachers of calculus teachers,

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Speaker 1: maybe in San Francisco. So the problem really is of

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Speaker 1: a geographic arbitrage. I am surprised that there is not

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Speaker 1: more conversation about this problem as we talk about reskilling

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Speaker 1: America and reskilling real America, uh in specifics. So the

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Speaker 1: problem exists eight because of that. The second reason the

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Speaker 1: problem exists is what the children need to learn is changing.

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Speaker 1: We have a lot of conversations about STEM, computer science, cybersecurity.

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Speaker 1: If a school district can't find a Grade Ford math teacher, Carol,

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Speaker 1: go figure, how are they ever going to find a

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Speaker 1: computer science teacher. So the problem really existed, people were

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Speaker 1: talking about it, but I think COVID has just brought

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Speaker 1: this problem center and completely up front. And this is

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Speaker 1: a problem plaguing mostly the low income neighborhoods in the country. Well,

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Speaker 1: and I think about Paul, like you probably thought about

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Speaker 1: it with your kids. I know my parents did. They

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Speaker 1: thought about when they bought a house where we were

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Speaker 1: going to grow up and what kind of education. That

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Speaker 1: was a big thing, and we know it's just not equal,

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Speaker 1: right Paul, you know around the country absolutely, And Shelley,

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Speaker 1: I'm just wondering what the you know, what this country

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Speaker 1: has been dealing with really for the last eight months

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Speaker 1: as it relates to education, much much more virtual education.

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Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on the viability the quality of

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Speaker 1: that virtual experience visa vi the in person experience, since

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Speaker 1: you've had so much experience with it. Thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for asking that question. I think it's a very

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Speaker 1: important question. To be asked. Um, you'll see a lot

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Speaker 1: of articles now talking about virtual education is not working,

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Speaker 1: online learning is not working. I don't think virtual education

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Speaker 1: or online learning is not working. What is really not

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Speaker 1: working is the way it is being done. Over the

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Speaker 1: last several years, we as the company have honed in

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Speaker 1: on the specifics of what makes real life teaching impactful engagement.

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Speaker 1: That a gaugey, the way you teach. How is the

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Speaker 1: teacher being how is the teacher being like evaluated? What

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Speaker 1: are you doing in a life syncodness and waterman. If

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Speaker 1: you think about virtual teaching now and what you see

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Speaker 1: with your children, what they've basically done is taken a

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Speaker 1: platform like Zoo More Google Needs that was built for

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Speaker 1: business and bandaged it and said, hey, kids, schools in districts,

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Speaker 1: let's use it. And that's the reason it's not working

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Speaker 1: because it wasn't built for a child, it wasn't built

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Speaker 1: for engagement. The teachers didn't go through the right amount

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Speaker 1: of training, The teachers are not going to the right

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Speaker 1: amount of quality audits because everybody is just scrambling to

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Speaker 1: fill let's get something out to the kids. The instruction

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Speaker 1: loss that is going to happen, specifically in the low

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Speaker 1: income neighborhoods because your children fall and Carroll's still you know,

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Speaker 1: you have WiFi at home, you have laptops, you have electricity.

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Speaker 1: When COVID hit, the transition was easy. We worked with

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Speaker 1: some school districts when COVID hit. The only thing that

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Speaker 1: the superintendent would say the goddesses to make sure that

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Speaker 1: the meals are delivered to the kids. Some of these

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Speaker 1: kids don't have electricity at home, some of them don't

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Speaker 1: have WiFi, so they were different issues them. My viewpoint

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Speaker 1: is virtual learning and online learning works if it's done well,

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Speaker 1: and the three pillars that make it highly effective is

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Speaker 1: great technology built four K twelve right, absolutely amazing, rock

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Speaker 1: star teachers, and great content. You know, Carol, unfortunate to

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Speaker 1: live in a town that has a very good school system.

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Speaker 1: But this summer at school is just about to open.

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Speaker 1: I saw for the first time signs in front of

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Speaker 1: the schools recruiting substitute teachers. I guess the district was

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Speaker 1: really anticipating with the COVID that there would be a

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Speaker 1: greater need for substitute teachers. So if it has happening

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Speaker 1: in strong school districts, you gotta really wonder kind of

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Speaker 1: where we are and some of the others, and fortunate

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Speaker 1: to continue our discussion with elevate K through twelve CEO

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Speaker 1: Shelley Baron Wall. Shelley again just highlighted to me, uh,

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Speaker 1: this issue of teachers and give us a sense is

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Speaker 1: this Are you finding that there is a growing shortage

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Speaker 1: of teachers or maybe just that arbitrage that you were

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Speaker 1: talking about earlier, that's really a regional thing. So I

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Speaker 1: would answer the question in two phases. Number one and

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Speaker 1: the first problem is the geographic arbitract right if I

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Speaker 1: look at the supply of teachers right now. But however,

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Speaker 1: when we think about building a company, when we think

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Speaker 1: about reforming a complete industry, you have to think about

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Speaker 1: what this is going to do long term. And I

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Speaker 1: do believe that as the percentage of people in general

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Speaker 1: taking teaching certifications or wanting to be teachers reduces, this

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Speaker 1: problem is going to further increase and rather than just

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Speaker 1: impacting the low income neighborhoods, very soon may actually impact

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Speaker 1: the high income neighborhoods. So what we need to do

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Speaker 1: as as a society, what we need to do as

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Speaker 1: a company, is not just think about the problems that

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Speaker 1: we are solving right now, but also think about what

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Speaker 1: are the strategies and measures that need to be taken

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Speaker 1: now to continue to improve the supply of teachers, like

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Speaker 1: to make teaching of un professor again where millennials and

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Speaker 1: want to be teachers, and they're not wanted about that

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Speaker 1: being a teacher, they may not get paid a lot,

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Speaker 1: or where do they want to live. I think one

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Speaker 1: thing that COVID has done is, you know what, people

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Speaker 1: can live anywhere they want, and with our live streaming instruction,

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Speaker 1: teachers can teach straight into a classroom where the kids

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Speaker 1: are in one physical location from anywhere they want. So

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Speaker 1: I look at it in two phases and that's how

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Speaker 1: I see the problem evolving. So don't you think all

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Speaker 1: I also think there's something wrong with us as a society.

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Speaker 1: Cately that I don't think there is a lot of

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Speaker 1: respect for teachers. We certainly don't pay them often enough,

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Speaker 1: and we also ask teachers to often buy their own supplies,

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Speaker 1: you know, contribute. You know, there's something wrong. I didn't

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Speaker 1: grow up where my parents had to buy you know,

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Speaker 1: we bought the things I basically needed, but the schools

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Speaker 1: supplied a lot. And something's happened in our world. Despite

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Speaker 1: the amount of money that we haven't spent on taxes

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Speaker 1: and it goes into education, we've gotten I don't know,

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Speaker 1: we really kind of gotten messed up. So how do

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Speaker 1: we pay teachers more so that people want to be

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Speaker 1: a teacher and come into the occupation. How do we

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Speaker 1: make sure schools are funded in the right way? M

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Speaker 1: so Actually, so, we do surveys of of our teachers.

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Speaker 1: Right we have a network of over thousand teachers in

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Speaker 1: the US. They're located everywhere, they teach online, they teach live.

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Speaker 1: And when we do our surveys, Carol and we asked them,

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Speaker 1: why did you leave the school district to work with us?

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Speaker 1: What caused it? And the number one reason was because

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Speaker 1: they were so done with a lot of bureaucracies and

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Speaker 1: politics that happens within a school district where they went

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Speaker 1: into teaching for the joy of teaching. So, frankly, it's

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Speaker 1: not so much the money, it's actually the rest of

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Speaker 1: the systems around it that plugged the teachers out of

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Speaker 1: the school system. Definitely, paying them well, making teaching a

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Speaker 1: high paid job is definitely a plus. And I'm hoping

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Speaker 1: that with some of the laws changing, with some of

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Speaker 1: the policies coming in, we see more and more of that.

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Speaker 1: Teachers want flexibilities. Like a lot of our teachers are

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Speaker 1: from North to Code down there from Oklahoma where they

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Speaker 1: live in small towns with the cost of living is low,

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Speaker 1: but they're teaching in a big town in let's say

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Speaker 1: in North Carolina and into a classroom. So I think

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Speaker 1: that part is causing them to leave the profession. And

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Speaker 1: if you look at the root cause analysis of that

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Speaker 1: and start targeting each one of those, you will see

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Speaker 1: more and more teachers come back into the system. Like

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Speaker 1: we've currently partners with companies like Sylvan Learning that your

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Speaker 1: code sharing our teachers. We're partnering with University of Phoenix

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Speaker 1: talking to these universities on how you can make your

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Speaker 1: teaching curriculum more impactful. That more millenniums and the younger

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Speaker 1: generation want to get into this profession and teach the

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Speaker 1: way they wanted, maybe from a beach, and how do

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Speaker 1: you make it SEXI before them, Okay, I mean you

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Speaker 1: told me, But what's interesting. I have a cousin. I

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Speaker 1: mean she's retired now and we would have kept teaching

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Speaker 1: a few more years, but you mentioned bureaucracy. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: talk to me about situations where schools didn't back up

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Speaker 1: teachers against parents, and it became where teachers were, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of having to reprimand kids or it just got

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Speaker 1: really difficult. And I do wonder you know that dynamic

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Speaker 1: how what what you're hearing about that as well? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I would say that probably not every school district goes

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Speaker 1: through that. We have the fortune of working with some

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Speaker 1: amazing school districts where their leaders and superintendents care a

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Speaker 1: lot about their staff. Because again, it's like any other organization, right,

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Speaker 1: you care for your people, you give them the right rules,

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Speaker 1: and the entire organization flourishes. So specifics, what I have

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Speaker 1: heard about is Number one is the time commitment required.

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Speaker 1: Right Like, as a teacher, you may think that that

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Speaker 1: a am to three pm is where your life and no,

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Speaker 1: your life kind of continues beyond that. So the number

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Speaker 1: of hours of work that they have to do beyond

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Speaker 1: the to three is what pushes a lot of teachers

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Speaker 1: from a regular brick and mortar system to working with

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Speaker 1: us online. The second is the flexibility of time. More

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Speaker 1: than sixt the tchual teaching population is women, more than

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Speaker 1: of our teaching population is women, right, So you see

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Speaker 1: the difference there, and they are between thirty two to forty.

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Speaker 1: They are a mother with a teaching certification, so they

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Speaker 1: need that flexibility that I can work and I can

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Speaker 1: also you know, be at home when needed. So that

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Speaker 1: flexibility that the gig economy has offered to a lot

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Speaker 1: of other industry. It's high time that it comes to

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Speaker 1: Kate pout now and that's what we're trying to change. Shelly,

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Speaker 1: just quickly, what is most school dridstricts, I would say

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Speaker 1: around the country are really struggling with virtual learning? What

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Speaker 1: the mistakes do you think they're making? What advice would

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Speaker 1: you give them to try to improve their virtual learning?

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Speaker 1: I think the first the only advice that I would

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Speaker 1: give them, actually not the first run is believe in

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Speaker 1: synchronous teaching. What the difference between synchronous and asynchronous arning

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Speaker 1: and teaching a synkinner, So a lot of remote teaching

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Speaker 1: that's happening not with elevation but without elevate wealth is

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Speaker 1: a teacher would come online, teach for maybe ten fifteen

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Speaker 1: minutes and then that's synchronous teaching, and then give a

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Speaker 1: synchinners work to the kids to do on their own

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Speaker 1: watch videoself based learning. Again, it goes back to the

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Speaker 1: have and have not right, like your children would be proactive,

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Speaker 1: would want to do a syn conness learning maybe or

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Speaker 1: maybe not. I'm not sure, but a lot of the

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Speaker 1: students who we serve there isn't a culture of success.

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Speaker 1: They don't have those examples. So what is really not

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Speaker 1: working is the lack of synchronous life teaching into remote learning.

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Speaker 1: Online learning is not life learning, and I think the

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Speaker 1: industry and the country needs to start understanding the difference

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Speaker 1: between the two. That's a really good, important distinction, especially

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Speaker 1: as we move forward and we expect that this online

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Speaker 1: learning is going to kind of stay with us in

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Speaker 1: some form or another. Shelly, thank you so much. She

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Speaker 1: Alie bar and Wall. She is founder and CEO of

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Speaker 1: Elevate K twelve. Check out more about what they're doing.

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Speaker 1: You can go online and find out about that. Paul,

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Speaker 1: You know, we talk a lot about diversification when it

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Speaker 1: comes to investing, right, and that often includes some hard

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Speaker 1: tangible assets, including wine, which is what our next guest

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Speaker 1: knows about. Anthony is saying he's a repeat entrepreneur. He

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Speaker 1: has founded and sold a couple of companies. His current

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Speaker 1: venture is as co founder and CEO of vino vest

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Speaker 1: excuse me, a tech platform for investing in wine, and

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Speaker 1: he joins us on the phone in Los Angeles. Um, Anthony,

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Speaker 1: it's nice to have you here with Paul and myself.

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Speaker 1: First of all, how are you doing? And I'm curious

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Speaker 1: about the pandemic impact. UM, how what it's had on

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Speaker 1: your business, especially go back to April and then kind

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Speaker 1: of where we are today. Absolutely, and first of all,

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Speaker 1: thanks to both for having me on UM. I think

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Speaker 1: with the pandemic, with a lot of both being uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, lockdown and certainly drinking a lot more wine,

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Speaker 1: I think we've seen a lot of hill winds, especially

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Speaker 1: in the high end wine investing market. As coupled with that,

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Speaker 1: a lot of savvy investors are thinking of ways where

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Speaker 1: they can diversify away from traditional stocks and find other

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Speaker 1: assets where they can start to hedge some of their profits.

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Speaker 1: So UM, I think with our company as well with

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Speaker 1: a lot of other alternative investing companies, we've started to

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Speaker 1: see a lot more openness and interest from retail investors

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Speaker 1: and institutional investors alike. So Anthony, tell us about your company,

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Speaker 1: how does it facilitate investing in fine wine. Absolutely. Our

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Speaker 1: company makes it simple and accessible for anybody to be

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Speaker 1: able to to invest into fine wine as an asset class.

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Speaker 1: So not only do we actually help with the selection,

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Speaker 1: we also help our investors store their wine, ensure their wine,

431
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 1: as well as provide a platform for liquidity into selling

432
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:03,439
Speaker 1: their wine whenever they want. So, if I deposit some

433
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,120
Speaker 1: money with your and can give you some money, will

434
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 1: you go out and buy a basket of wines for

435
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 1: me to invest in? Or how how does that work?

436
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: How do you decide what I should be buying? I

437
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: guess yeah, that's a great question. So we do take

438
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 1: a basket approach in that based on your maybe your

439
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 1: risk tolerance, your investment timeline, as well as how much

440
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 1: how many you have to actually invest. We're able to

441
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: then have our team, as well as algorithms that we've built,

442
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 1: be able to construct a portfolio of wines that could

443
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: be right for you. So, just like in the traditional

444
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 1: stock market, you've got your equivalent of blue ship stocks

445
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: or maybe your emerging market stocks. Uh, there's the same

446
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 1: thing in the wine world. There's some wine regions and

447
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 1: producers that are a bit more established than others that

448
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 1: have um really predictable gains as the wines mature and age,

449
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 1: and there's also newer and hotter, up and coming regions

450
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 1: that maybe a little bit more speculative, but can also

451
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 1: to deliver returns that are above above market. Hey, Anthony,

452
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,640
Speaker 1: I'm curious about your demographics, because if if we wanted

453
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 1: to get started, I mean, you can start, you know,

454
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 1: for as little as a thousand dollars, right, I think

455
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,959
Speaker 1: that's your standard UM kind of platform. Premium is fifty.

456
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 1: You have to have a minimum balance, and then there's

457
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 1: the grand crew, which is about a quarter of a

458
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 1: million dollars minimum balance. Who do you have the most

459
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 1: of on your platform? I'd say we definitely still have

460
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: the most of our standard plans. So most folks, I

461
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 1: think are really unfamiliar with investing in wine. Maybe they've

462
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,959
Speaker 1: heard of a friend or two as a couple of

463
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 1: expensive bottles, and they're familiar with the general concept of

464
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 1: wine going up over time as it ages and gets

465
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: more expensive. But um, most people don't really know where

466
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 1: to start. And that's really where we want to be

467
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: as be that accessible entry point for someone to be

468
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: able to maybe start with a few thousand dollars to

469
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: diversify away from the stock market then build on from

470
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: there as to become more knowledgeable and comfortable. Anthony, how

471
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 1: is this? How is wine done as an asset class

472
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,919
Speaker 1: from investment perspective and kind of what benchmark do you

473
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: do you look at or should we look at? Yeah,

474
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: that's a great question. So in terms of the performance

475
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: of the fine wine market over the past thirty to

476
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: forty years, it's outperformed the SMP five hundreds. It's had

477
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 1: annualized returns of a little bit under twelve percent. And

478
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: I think on top of just the strong annual performance,

479
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,640
Speaker 1: what really stands out to most investors is the lack

480
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: of volatility. It's really really slow and steady. Over the

481
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 1: last thirty years, it's only had six down years, which,

482
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 1: um I think as something to diversify into that has

483
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 1: lower volatility and really strong gains makes it a really

484
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 1: attractive asset class, regardless of the fact that it's lying. Yeah,

485
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: well it's interesting. You know, the economists had a story

486
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: I think it might have been last year, just talking

487
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 1: specifically about Burgundy wine investors beating the stock market. UM

488
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 1: no pun intended. How liquid is it? So you you invest,

489
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 1: you buy bottles or you have a portfolio created for you,

490
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 1: you can ultimately sell those bottles right and I'm curious

491
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: how easy how quickly that can be done. You can

492
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: also ultimately right drink those bottles. Absolutely so, since we

493
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: are allowing each client to actually buy the whole bottle

494
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: or by the whole case of wine, and we're not

495
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: securitizing it into some sort of a fund or some

496
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 1: sort of fractional ownership, the client enjoys the benefit of

497
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 1: actually having that direct ownership or the physical asset, which

498
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 1: means regardless of what happens to the price of the wine,

499
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 1: that can still choose to drink it, enjoy it, gifts

500
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: it whatever they like. Um, and your question about liquidity,

501
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: we really only put a you know, put a premium

502
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: on the wines that already have existing demand on the

503
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: secondary market. So a lot of these top Burgundy wines

504
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 1: or Bordeaux wines are ones from NAPA. UM, they're always

505
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: in high demand. So we can be able to say, Um,

506
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: if you wanted to sell off your portfolio positions tomorrow,

507
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: we could get you out of those positions in a

508
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: matter of a couple of weeks. Because there are so

509
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: many investors or collectors on the consumption side that want

510
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 1: that wine. All right, So Anthony, I'm a value stock investor,

511
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 1: how do I bring that over to the wine Because

512
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 1: what's the up and coming hot region or hot grower

513
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: that I should be looking at right now? It's called

514
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: the screw Top Paul And from New Jersey. That's definitely

515
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: the value there. But I'd say for investment wines, what

516
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: you want to do is not look at the Kreme

517
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: Dola Creme, right those ones everybody knows and those prices

518
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: have have been skyrocketing for the past few years. What

519
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: you want to do is take an established region and

520
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: maybe find some up and coming producers from that established region.

521
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: So looking at Burgundy, there's there's producers that are selling

522
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: balls of wines for ten thousand dollars twenty thousand dollars

523
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: a bottle, but they're all are also ones that are

524
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: maybe five hundred bucks a thousand bucks a bottle, and

525
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: you know that they're they're going to be climbing into

526
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: those uh stratospheric price rangers in the next few years.

527
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: Another approach is to take a completely uh up and

528
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: coming wine region as a whole, so you're looking at

529
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: the impact of something like climate change previously, places like

530
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: Oregon in the past decade have really really started to

531
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 1: blossom in popularity, and even a lot of these top

532
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: burgundy producers are actually buying up land there because they

533
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 1: see that as the future producing the best wine in

534
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: the world as well. Thanks for listening to Boomberg Markets podcast.

535
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts

536
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Bonnie Quinn. I'm

537
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Bonnie Quinn. Paul Sweeney I'm on Twitter

538
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you can all is

539
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio m