1 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: Novel Phoenix Jones was arrested by saddle p d on 2 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 1: suspicion of poor people got pepper school. The pepper spray 3 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 1: turned the scene into total chaos. M When we last 4 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: left our hero Phoenix Jones, he'd just been arrested for 5 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 1: pepper spraying a bunch of people outside of bar that 6 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: night on October nine, two thousand and eleven. He was 7 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: booked into the county jail and then bailed out. He 8 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: says that when he showed up to court a few 9 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: days later, his old nemesis, Seattle attorney Pete Holmes, was 10 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: there waiting for him. He's trying to convince me not 11 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: to fight crime, Like, if you don't stop fin and crime, 12 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell your identity. I'm like, you can't threaten 13 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: me with something like I will not be threatened. You 14 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: have nothing to threaten me with, Like it's ridiculous for 15 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: you to think you're gonna threaten me, ridiculous. The concepts 16 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: offensive you threatening me ridiculous, Like, oh, you're gonna tell 17 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: everybody in my identity you already did. Jerk off. I'm 18 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: in court. Do you think we can keep all these 19 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: court documents sealed? I'm aware of the clocks ticking. That's 20 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: why you did it. You did it to expose me 21 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 1: and to make fun of me, because you thought that 22 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,479 Speaker 1: people would think of was a clown. It was at 23 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: this moment that Phoenix decided he would turn the tables 24 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: on his nemesis. That was one of those moments where 25 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: I was like, everything sucks, but if it's gonna suck, 26 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: it's gonna suck my way. He looked to Iron Man 27 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: for inspiration, specifically the scene where the inventor Tony Stark 28 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: reveals his identity at a press conference and now Mr 29 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:00,559 Speaker 1: Stark has prepared a statement. Phoenix watched that lip over 30 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: and over again, like five or six times in a row. Truthish, 31 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: I am, I right man, And it was like, I'm 32 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: gonna do my version of that. Phoenix set up a 33 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: press conference outside the courthouse on October two thousand and eleven, 34 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 1: wearing his black and gold superhero costume, flanked by people 35 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: in business suits. He turns to the reporters and speaks, 36 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 1: I'm Phoenix Jones, I'm also Ben Voter. I'm just like 37 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: everyone else. The only difference is that I decided to 38 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: make a difference and stop crime. In my neighborhood, in 39 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: my area. The reveal didn't quite have that Hollywood polish, 40 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: but it was an impressive thing to witness. Phoenix had 41 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: made it clear to Pete Holmes and the rest of 42 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,959 Speaker 1: the Seattle Police Department, the whole world really that he 43 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: would not back down from his mission to fight crime. 44 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 1: As Phoenix saw, he called their bluff and they folded. 45 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 1: Life only is a certain amount of moments, right, and 46 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: I think sometimes people are conflicted by how they feel 47 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: their emotions, right were as I'm not so so it 48 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: really have a chance to look at them as how 49 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:17,799 Speaker 1: can I add to my legacy? At this moment, Phoenix 50 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 1: concluded his press conference with an announcement the city Attorney 51 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: could take his request that Phoenix stopped fighting crime and 52 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: shove it. I'm paraphrasing. What he actually said was that 53 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: he was heading back out on patrol that weekend, but 54 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: the point still stands Phoenix Jones would not be deterred. 55 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: I'm David Weinberg and from the team's at Novel and 56 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. This is the Superhero Complex episode five 57 00:03:44,960 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: the Rogue Era. When Phoenix Jones revealed his identity outside 58 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: the Seattle Courthouse it was a moment of triumph. Shortly 59 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: after Pete Holmes's office announced that they were dropping the 60 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: charges for the pepper spray incident. I think they just 61 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: went perfectly. Other than having my identity, it really went 62 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: perfectly because I think that legitimized me as a superhero 63 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: in a weird way. How well, because when I revealed 64 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 1: my secret identity, every news article said, hey, superhero revealed 65 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: secret identity. You have to be a superhero to have 66 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: a secret identity. And I revealed it because the cops 67 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: were coming after me for stopping crime. Phoenix said that 68 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: in a way, revealing his identity actually helped him because 69 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 1: before now nobody had been able to check whether he 70 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 1: had bona fide superhero credentials. People thought it was a 71 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:49,359 Speaker 1: guy running around in spandex trying to fight crime. It 72 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 1: was kind of a clown. But when you expose y 73 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: and behind it, you find out that I'm a four 74 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: time regional champion martial artist, a black belt in taekwondo. 75 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: Have over crimestops now they can look up because they 76 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: know my school name, and then they see all these 77 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: legal police stocks where my name is mentioned in crime reports, 78 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 1: including an attempted murder stop right, and all of a 79 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 1: sudden you're like, oh, that guy is not a clown. 80 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: So in a weird way, it legitimizes me further than 81 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: I ever could. If Seattle's law enforcement were out to 82 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,239 Speaker 1: get Phoenix by charging him for a crime, they had failed. 83 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 1: If anything, the arrest made Phoenix more confident and more defiant. 84 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 1: Shortly after he revealed his true identity, he made an 85 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: appearance on Fox News on Megan Kelly's show, Phoenix. Is 86 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: it true that at the end of the court hearing 87 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 1: yesterday you tore off your dress shirt to reveal your 88 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 1: signature black and green superhero costume? It was black and gold. Yeah, 89 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 1: I was wearing my super suit because this wasn't about 90 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 1: the guy under the mask. They were charging Phoenix Jones 91 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: because I'm Phoenix Jones. If I was a regular person 92 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: and I had just regularly pepper sprayed someone who was 93 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: in a fight, they would have shook my hand and 94 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: sent me away. So I wore the suit because that's 95 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: what this was about, and I took my mask off 96 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: because the person suffering for it is the person under 97 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 1: the mask. Phoenix may have one his first major battle 98 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:03,679 Speaker 1: with the police, but it was really just the start 99 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: of the war. When Phoenix was arrested, the Seattle police 100 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 1: confiscated his beloved super suit and they refused to give 101 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: it back. Phoenix complained about it on the local Seattle 102 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: radio program The Bob Rivers Show. Why did they confiscate 103 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: your There's two answers. There's the politically correct answer and 104 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: then the truth. So Phoenix says that the police claimed 105 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: his suit was evidence and they needed it to identify him. 106 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: He says that doesn't make any sense because he'd already 107 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: identified himself publicly. He ends up complaining to the host 108 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: about the fact that he's having to use a substandard 109 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: replacement suite proof vest staff plating and doesn't have stay 110 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: and the police confiscated that suit. This one is not 111 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: so expensive. The other one that that police confiscated as 112 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: quotations evidence evidence was like seven thousand seven in what 113 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: are they doing with that? That makes me mad? They're 114 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: probably wearing it and taking photos. Call every day and 115 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: ask about the sup several times day. Phoenix assigned to 116 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: my suit, so there's not an officer I can call 117 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: it directly. In the moments right after Phoenix revealed his 118 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: identity and his dramatic press conference. It felt like he'd 119 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: won a massive victory over the system, but the reality 120 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: was that Phoenix had just opened up a huge can 121 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: of worms, and the repercussions of his decision to out 122 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: himself were about to hit with disastrous consequences. It was 123 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: hard for me is when my identity came out. I 124 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: was working with autistic children. So they yanked my state 125 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: license and much other stuff and said I was crazy. 126 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: When Ben Photor wasn't putting on a superhero costume and 127 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: chasing down criminals as Phoenix Jones, or training at the gym, 128 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: or competing as an m M A fighter, he was 129 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: at his day job caring for kids with autism. He 130 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: went to their homes or to state run facilities, and 131 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: he took them out shopping and help them learn other 132 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: life skills they would need to navigate the world as adults. Well. 133 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: My parents own foster home that works with autistic children 134 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: for a living. When I turned eighteen, the first job 135 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: I ever had was working with autistic children. I worked 136 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: with autistic children until I was twenty five, and I 137 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: got like a bunch of different awards for like, you know, 138 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: a Teacher of the Years and all kinds of different 139 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: stuff for working with autistic kids and helping them cope 140 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: with their general life skills. I found him incredibly easy 141 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: to like understand and like incredibly easy to help, So 142 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: being somewhat on that spectrum would make that easier. I guess. Obviously, 143 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: any person who becomes a real life superhero probably thinks 144 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: outside of societal norms. But there were also these small 145 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:38,319 Speaker 1: moments I had with Phoenix that revealed something deeper about 146 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: how he sees the world, about his thought processes. For example, 147 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: one night I was driving with Phoenix when he got 148 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: a text from his girlfriend Dre. He pulled over to respond, 149 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: and then he explained this bizarre system he created for 150 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: talking to friends over text messages. I don't always understand 151 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:00,200 Speaker 1: how to explain things to other people, are like, uh, 152 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: what you? How you As a way to show that 153 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: I like, he was not ever going to be something 154 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: that I value, So I came up with the system 155 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 1: with my friends where when I think about them, I'll 156 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: send a number, like if it's like so three one 157 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 1: three is like a sandwich. Any number has a sandwich, 158 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: or run like one to three, like one in morning 159 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: in the morning, like two numbers on the ends and 160 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,319 Speaker 1: once number in the middle. Right. When I'm thinking of 161 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:23,839 Speaker 1: my friends, I'll send him a random like the random 162 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: set of numbers, you know what I mean, because math 163 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: always makes sense three seven right, Three plus four equals seven, 164 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: so I'll send him like three plus four and then 165 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: an equal sign and seven right. So we all send 166 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 1: each other numbers back and forth. It's kind of like 167 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: saying I'm thinking about you at a specific time, or 168 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: I waited till that time because you're an important person 169 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,959 Speaker 1: to me and math makes sense to me. I didn't 170 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 1: quite understand Ben's system. It just sounds a little like 171 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: autistic to me. Yeah, well, like on the spectrum people 172 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: have said that about me before you know, I started explaining, 173 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:56,839 Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like autism is a negative thing, 174 00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: Like people are always saying something negative about being autistic. 175 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:01,679 Speaker 1: In my mind, and if I am autistic, then I 176 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:03,679 Speaker 1: guess I'm one of the most successful autistic people that 177 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: there is, Like I win at every game I play. 178 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,439 Speaker 1: So whatever label people want to put on that they can, 179 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: I don't care what the the funk I guess. After Phoenix 180 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: was arrested, the Department of Social and Health Services notified 181 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: his employer who barred him from working with any of 182 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: the children in their care. Phoenix was told to leave immediately. 183 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:26,959 Speaker 1: He says he had to walk out of his job 184 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 1: in the middle of the day. The department spokesperson said 185 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: they were just trying to air on the side of 186 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: caution and that he could have his job back if 187 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: he wasn't convicted. But after the charges were dropped, Phoenix 188 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: says he still had to prove that he wasn't mentally 189 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: ill before they'd consider letting him go back to work. 190 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: One test he says he was given was supposed to 191 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: determine whether or not he was autistic. At the end 192 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: of the test, Phoenix got a score, a number that 193 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: determined where on the autism spectrum someone is. Phoenix says 194 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: he scored a fifty seven out of a hundred. Anything 195 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: above fifty could be autistic, anything above sixty is autistic. 196 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: So what then does that mean? The part of the 197 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: test that really tripped Phoenix up was the facial recognition questions. 198 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:20,199 Speaker 1: There's a part where they play like a video of 199 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: these faces and people make weird faces, right, and they're 200 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: supposed to say what emotion the person's feeling. Had no 201 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: fucking clue. Like it was just like random faces. It 202 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: didn't make any sense, no one could have done it. 203 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 1: It was crazy. So afterwards I was like, this is insane. 204 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: So I told my doctor about it. He's like, oh, yeah, yeah, 205 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: the facial recognition recognizant tester or whatever. Right, So they 206 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 1: were like, well, we'll give it to you again. So 207 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: I did again. I scored the exact same thing. Right 208 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,439 Speaker 1: then he was like, what's your son do it? Because 209 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: my son was with me. Right then, my son did 210 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: it and he just straight up was like sad, happy, confused, angry, 211 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: and nailed all of them. So I was like with 212 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,439 Speaker 1: this weird moment where I'm like, Okay, there's something happening 213 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: here that I'm not seeing clearly. Phoenix told me that 214 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: the autism assessment was just one of several psychological tests 215 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: he was given. So it took me like three years 216 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: of like proving I'm not a crazy person. What was 217 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: that three year process of trying to prove that you 218 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: weren't crazy? What did that look like? Well, like, first 219 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: I had to go to stupid hearing. Then after the hearing, 220 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: I had some many piece of paper and then they 221 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: wanted me to do a mental evaluation, and then they 222 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 1: did a I e. P. Meetings, which are like between 223 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 1: like the kids that you work within the parents, and 224 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: the final process was something called a judgment review, which 225 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: is like where they just ask you a bunch of 226 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: questions basically. But I mean, it wasn't it wasn't hard, 227 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: because I'm not crazy. Eventually, Phoenix says he did everything 228 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: he needed to pass the psychological tests, but in the meantime, 229 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,559 Speaker 1: he was still out of a job and a super suit. 230 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: But Phoenix was determined to continue protecting the citizens of Seattle, 231 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: so he put on his budget backup suit and hit 232 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: the streets looking for action. For Phoenix, the only thing 233 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 1: that mattered was the work protecting those in danger and 234 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: helping those in need, even if everything else in his 235 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: life was a total mess. I'm deficient in these areas 236 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: over here, but none of them have to do with 237 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: crime fighting. That is the one place I am sucking flawless. 238 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: Now Here is one issue that Phoenix and I will 239 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: never agree on. I wholly reject the idea that Phoenix 240 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: is perfect at crime fighting. I mean, this is a 241 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: guy who almost drowned in a puddle because he got 242 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 1: caught in his own net and then got robbed by 243 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: the criminal he was chasing. Also, every time I hung 244 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: out with Phoenix, we had to use my rental car 245 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: to get around because his car had either been towed 246 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: or broken into by thieves who he was never able 247 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: to apprehend. So yeah, I think we have different ideas 248 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: about what crime fighting perfection looks like. But Phoenix was 249 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: adamant that he had achieved it. There's no crime he 250 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: can't stop, nobody he can't save. But there was one 251 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: tragic incident in two thousand and twelve that Phoenix admittedly 252 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 1: failed to prevent. It was a night that changed everything 253 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: that's coming up. On April two thousand and twelve, a 254 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: young businessman named Dennis was in Seattle for a work trip. 255 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: I had brought my wife and one of my kids 256 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: up there to spend the weekend. They did some shopping 257 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: and cruising around while I did all my work. After 258 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: he wrapped up the day's business, you went to see 259 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: the Supercross at the Football Stadium with a friend. They 260 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: were grabbing some food and heading back to the hotel 261 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: where Dennis's wife was waiting for him. It was two 262 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning on Saturday, night, so bars were 263 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: closing and it was busy down there, so there was 264 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 1: a ton of people. They walked from the stadium to 265 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: Pioneer Square, where the streets were filled with tourists and 266 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: folks from the surrounding suburbs who came into the area 267 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: for the bars and clubs. There was also a large 268 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: community of homeless people and drug dealers who catered to 269 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: them alright, which was why Phoenix was a few streets 270 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: away on patrol with Ghost, Midnight Jack, Captain Karma, and 271 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: a few other members of the Rain City Superheroes. How 272 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: so far, it had been just like any other night 273 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: on patrol. They looked for bar fights or drunk people 274 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: in need of assistance, and as usual, Phoenix had snapped 275 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: some photos with late night revelers. Yeah, we definitely Yeah, 276 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: Well you gotta hurrying great there, We have a good night. 277 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: By the time Dennis was setting off back to his hotel, 278 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: the Rain City Superheroes had stopped a couple of blocks 279 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: away outside a night club called Trinity. A lot of 280 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: people out here, right, bot right. Phoenix was preoccupied with 281 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: some communication problems. Then again, we're losing contact. Brother, radios 282 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: were trash. We had literally good radios that we had 283 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: painted Garma, what's your code? I tried to hail Captain 284 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: Karma on the radio and he didn't answer, Karma report, 285 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: make him give me good radio contact? All right, who's 286 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: running your radio? Phoenix was getting frustrated. Can you hear 287 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: what I call you? Yeah? I called you three times? 288 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: You didn't respond? Really? Yes? Really? What are your pocket? 289 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: At this point locked in a petty argument about communication, 290 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: they had no idea that their night was about to 291 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: be turned inside out. And I couldn't hear what code 292 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: you wor so I freaked out because bang bang bang 293 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: gun shot gun shot gun shot. Three gunshots go off, 294 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: and I'm like, yo, follow me, well me. Phoenix immediately 295 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: started sprinting towards the sound. Within seconds, it arrived at 296 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: a street called Yesler Way. People were screaming and fleeing 297 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: in all directions. There's a person standing on their cell phone. 298 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: There's a guy who's kind of crouching, you know, and 299 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: then over here there's like a car that's driving by, 300 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: and then I see it, the guy crouching. He's got 301 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: a gun. M H. Dennis said he and his friend 302 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: were there too. In the midst of the chaos. They've 303 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: been crossing the road when the shots were fired. You 304 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:12,640 Speaker 1: could hear the panic. It was chaos, like scary. Over 305 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: on his side of Yesler Way, phoenix froze out of 306 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: the corner of my eye. The person on the cell 307 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 1: phone just like drops, and it's a weird kind of 308 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: drop because it's like like everything just stopped working versus 309 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 1: like someone laying down or being her was like it 310 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: just was like, oh. The person who dropped to the 311 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: ground was te year old Nicole Westbrook. Nicole had been 312 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: shot in the face and the bullet had gone through 313 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: her cheeks and shattered her spine. Dennis said he ran 314 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: towards her. Everything's slowed down, it went into like slow motion. 315 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 1: I was just trying to keep her alert and awakened 316 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: talking to me. So I had my hand kind of 317 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: underneath her neck to kind of have her like look 318 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: at me and talked me. And I felt blood underneath 319 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 1: her neck. I could tell that's where she had been shocked, 320 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 1: and uh yeah, I just sat there kind of screaming 321 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: and yelling for police to come. By this point, Dennis 322 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: said the square had emptied. It was scary quiet after 323 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: the shooting because everybody was gone. There wasn't a soul 324 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:28,199 Speaker 1: around me. Phoenix was gone too. He had taken off 325 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: in pursuit of the person he had seen crouching, who 326 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 1: he thought was the gunman. He tore down the street 327 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,640 Speaker 1: past the confused onlookers, and he says he ran into 328 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: the cops who were arriving on the scene, and I'm like, yeah, 329 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: the shooting with this way, and the cops like hold 330 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 1: up Phoenix. Phoenix says the police wanted to wait for backup. 331 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 1: I'm like, that's ridiculous. I didn't come into this game 332 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: to play these rules and like do this ship like 333 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: but it was too late. It's mathematically not intelligent to 334 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: run around a blind corner into the dark with the 335 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: doodoo as a weapon. But it could have done it 336 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: if I kept going when I started it, if I 337 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:09,440 Speaker 1: hadn't stopped. I wanted to do something, you know, we 338 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: all got just up to do something. In the body 339 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 1: cam footage available online, Phoenix talks to the police a 340 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: few times, but I couldn't hear the cops telling him 341 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 1: to turn back either way. Phoenix says he'd lost sight 342 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 1: of the man he was chasing, and he blames himself 343 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: for giving up the chase back at the intersection on 344 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,959 Speaker 1: Yesler Way. Dennis says he sat with Nicole and her 345 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: boyfriend until the ambulance arrived. The couple had just moved 346 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 1: to Seattle three weeks earlier. Nicole had just started class 347 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: as in a culinary program at the Art Institute, and 348 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: her boyfriend had recently been hired at a screen printing shop. 349 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: They were out that night to celebrate their good fortune 350 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: and landing a job and starting a new life together 351 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: in the city. When the ambulance arrived, Nicole was alive 352 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: but in critical condition. Dennis watched the medics pull away 353 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: and walked back to his hotel with his shirt covered 354 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 1: in blood. I remember seeing like a he's dressed up 355 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: like a superhero ocape. You know you're in downtown Seattle. 356 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: It's another crazy guy dressed up in a costume. I 357 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 1: I really didn't think anything of it. It's all gonna 358 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: stay with me, probably forever. Um. It just changes you 359 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 1: when something like that happens. Phoenix says that after he 360 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: gave up his pursuit of the gunman, he returned to 361 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: the scene of the shooting. The cops wouldn't let me 362 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: leave because I was the key witness of the thing, 363 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:43,439 Speaker 1: and I'm sitting there on the curb right there, like 364 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: on the corner. And then after a little bit of time, 365 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: like the crime tape, they just take the crime tape down, 366 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: and then I'm sitting there and I'm just just me 367 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 1: and I'm just like sitting next to this pile of 368 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: blood on the street in my suit. And it's like 369 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 1: the morning, and like people are coming to work and 370 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: like living their lives and doing their thing. And then 371 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: like maybe like seven, a firetruck comes by and just 372 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: sprays all the blood into the drain. And that was it, 373 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like nothing got fixed, nothing 374 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: got solved, None of us helped in any way. The 375 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: shooter never got captured. We all just didn't do our job. 376 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 1: Nicole never regained consciousness. She died in the hospital three 377 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: days after she was shot. It's still an unsolved case. 378 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 1: Her family keeps a Facebook page running, hoping for new 379 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: information that might lead to an arrest. There are just 380 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: moments in your life that you are never going to forget. Um. 381 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,360 Speaker 1: I took a long portion of my life and dedicated 382 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:33,159 Speaker 1: it stopping bad people from doing bad things. And I 383 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: don't care if people don't like me. I don't care 384 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: if people don't agree with what I did, but I 385 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 1: live with the repercussions what I did every day. You know. Yeah, 386 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 1: I'm just realistically, there's nothing Phoenix could have done to 387 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: save no Hole. He was blocked away when the shots 388 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: were fired, but maybe that's why he was so affected 389 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: by it. When Phoenix told me about how he'd been 390 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,400 Speaker 1: inspired by the Night Wind comics as a kid, he'd 391 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: vowed that he would never be helpless again, but when 392 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: it came to the senseless act of violence that ended 393 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 1: in Nicole Westbrook's life, he was just as powerless as 394 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 1: everyone else. Several of Phoenix's former teammates told me that 395 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 1: he was never the same after that night. Ghost, who 396 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: was with Phoenix during the shooting and has known him 397 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: since they were in high school, put it bluntly, that 398 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 1: was when my friend, in my mind died, and what 399 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: we have now is not who I used to know. 400 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: But he he did used to mean a lot to 401 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 1: me as a person. I followed him into gunfire multiple times. 402 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 1: He did too. You know, we all did against our 403 00:23:54,920 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 1: better judgment often, but in my opinion, he took that 404 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: the fact that we couldn't save that one person that night, 405 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: way too personally. And I don't know, it sounds terrible 406 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: coming out like that, but like there's a nature to 407 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: this and we're not gonna win everything, you know, But 408 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,119 Speaker 1: he somehow took that upon himself in a way that 409 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: I think changed him. Phoenix returned from that devastating patrol 410 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 1: a different man, and the transformation would have consequences for 411 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 1: everyone around him. That's coming up in the days after 412 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:05,239 Speaker 1: Nicole Westbrook's murder, Phoenix is in bad shape. Didn't come 413 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,360 Speaker 1: inside a house, take a shower, and take my supersuit, 414 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: including my mask off. For four days, I was like 415 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,919 Speaker 1: patrolling at night and then just like just sleeping outside 416 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 1: wherever I wanted. I mean, I lost my mind. I 417 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:24,919 Speaker 1: just like stop living for like four days. Phoenix was 418 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: fixated on the man he'd seen crouching at the scene 419 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,640 Speaker 1: of the crime, and he was determined to find him. 420 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:32,440 Speaker 1: How would you able to find him? Because because knew 421 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: what he looked like. I knew what he looked like. 422 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: I knew most likely from his clothes. He didn't have 423 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,360 Speaker 1: a car. And there's this place called the Jungle. It's 424 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,159 Speaker 1: like a lot of homeless encampments just stretched next to 425 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: the side of the city freeway, and I was like, 426 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 1: I bet you he's in that place. The jungle stretches 427 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 1: for three miles in a green belt directly underneath Interstate five. 428 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: It's a sea of tents with a constant drone of 429 00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:01,680 Speaker 1: traffic from the cars fifty ft overhead. According to some reports, 430 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: unhoused people have lived in the jungle since as far 431 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: back as the nineteen thirties. Phoenix made his way to 432 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,119 Speaker 1: the jungle in the hopes of finding the suspect, and 433 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: I went through every single ten a ripping part and 434 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: gotten fights and destroyed things. This is one of the 435 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 1: few times Phoenix has ever admitted to losing his cool 436 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: and going against his own strict moral code. Despite his 437 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,439 Speaker 1: objections in the past about homeless outreach not being a 438 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 1: central part of his mission as a superhero, he's always 439 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: claimed to offer assistance to those in need when he 440 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 1: comes across them. But rampaging through a homeless encountment and 441 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 1: destroying people's only belongings, Phoenix was out of control. Eventually, 442 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,679 Speaker 1: some was like, yo, stop it, this is where that 443 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: dude's had And this took me there, and then me 444 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: and him. At a conversation, Phoenix told me that when 445 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 1: he finally found the man he'd been hunting for days, 446 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,199 Speaker 1: it turned out that he'd been after the wrong person. 447 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 1: Phoenix said the man talked to him and convinced him 448 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: that he wasn't the shooter. The police investigating believe it 449 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: was a drive by and that the shots had been 450 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: fired from a white sedan. When he heard this, Phoenix 451 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 1: felt totally deflated. I went back to like under the 452 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: bridge on James Street, there's like a parking lot. I 453 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 1: was sitting up against a pole and ask guy's got 454 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,399 Speaker 1: to sleep under the parking lot? And then Ghost found 455 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,159 Speaker 1: me because of my cell phone tracker that we had on. 456 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 1: He's like, yo, you gotta stop patrolling. Ghost had been 457 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: there the night of the shooting as well, but he 458 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: told me he had a different perspective on it than Phoenix. 459 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 1: It does get to me in that way. I have 460 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 1: severe PTSD and I managed it every day in my life. 461 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: You know, there'd be something wrong with you if it 462 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: didn't get to you. But you can't let one loss 463 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 1: define you, you know, And I think that's what he did. 464 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 1: In the aftermath of the shooting, some team members were 465 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 1: skeptical about how sincere Phoenix's reaction was. Fellow real life 466 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,880 Speaker 1: superhero Crystal Marks told me that she always felt that 467 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: Phoenix used Nicole Westbrook's murder to his advantage. I think 468 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: it definitely left an impact. You can't be a human 469 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,199 Speaker 1: and know that that happened and not be changed in 470 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,920 Speaker 1: some way. But he keeps coming back, like I can't 471 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: rest until her killer is found and and it's again 472 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: he uses it for media attention, Like I don't know 473 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 1: if he really was all that impacted Phoenix that interviews 474 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: with the media about the murder. Nicole's family thanked him 475 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 1: on their Facebook page for raising awareness, But Phoenix also 476 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:58,239 Speaker 1: had a comic book made which featured the shooting, starring him. 477 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: It included graphic images Nicole laying in a pool of 478 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: her own blood. Phoenix said on a radio show that 479 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: it was intended to shine a light on the unsolved case. 480 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: But there's something about making a comic book about a 481 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: tragedy like that and making yourself the star that just 482 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 1: feels a little gross to me. Whenever Nichol's murder came 483 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: up when I talked to him, Phoenix was still very 484 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,959 Speaker 1: emotional about it, even all these years later, I just 485 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: I cannot explain why this event it hurts me so 486 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: much inside this person I don't know, getting shot by 487 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: someone I don't know, in a scenario when the guns 488 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: were already done before we could do anything. You know, 489 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: there's nothing we could have done. There's no amount of training, 490 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: there's no amount of superhero suits or movies or ideas 491 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: or beliefs that they are changing. That nothing changes that. 492 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: Phoenix told me that after the shooting his approach to 493 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: crime fighting totally changed. A start patrol, right about an 494 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: hour into patrol, I'd be like, all right, guys, if 495 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: I need you, I'll give you a call, and then 496 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: I would go tear up the jungle and getting fist 497 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 1: fights with like crazy like just crazy ship, you know, 498 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: or like me and Jack would break into an abandoned 499 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: house that was full of like homeless people who were 500 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: selling drugs in there, and like we would just do 501 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 1: reckless things. I was on a reckless mission. I was 502 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: just on one. Phoenix was acting increasingly wild and impulsive. 503 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: Evo called him out on it. Eva was the street shooter. 504 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: Like every time I tell him about a plan, he 505 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: would be like, no, you want to go break into 506 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: an abandoned house. No like no right. But the crew 507 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: of guys wanted to patrol, and Eva was the secondary 508 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 1: guy that they would follow. Eva grew more and more 509 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: frustrated with Phoenix's erratic behavior. You wouldn't answer anything. Do 510 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: you want to answer calls? You want to answer text, voicemails, emails, 511 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,719 Speaker 1: messages on Facebook or Twitter or anything like that, Like 512 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: he was unreachable in the meantime, Like, okay, well the 513 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: show must go on. So almost out of necessity, I 514 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: would leap into this thing, like, hey, everybody, I just 515 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: heard from Phoenix that we're doing Kept Hill tonight. So 516 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: meat at our usual spot at eleven o'clock and we'll 517 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: figure out roles there and be safe. I asked Phoenix 518 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: about what Evo had told me. I think he got 519 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: frustrated because he said, oftentimes you would just disappear and 520 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 1: not be reachable, and you'd have to kind of like 521 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: step in, And I feel like he felt like that 522 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: hindered the patrols. I would agree to what was going 523 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: on with you at that time, like that I was 524 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: going rogue. So when he's talking about it's like the 525 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: rogue era, the rogue era, Phoenix made no apologies about 526 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 1: that chaotic period. Maybe you should go save its sex 527 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: trafficking occasionally, or maybe you should do something Evo, because 528 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: the thing that Evo has done was just what was 529 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: Ebo done? Devo, take any of his cool crimestops. Tell 530 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 1: me when the Evil's cram stops? Oh wait none? Yeah, 531 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: but I mean because he have any. I mean you 532 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: just interviewed him, right, What was one story he told 533 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: you about where he stopped a crime because he doesn't 534 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: have any, stopped the bagel Evil stopped zero crimes, full bagels. 535 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: I'm not being mean none, So what are you talking about? Bro? Oh? 536 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: Phoenix would leave all the time and go fight real 537 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: crimes while you walked around and gave food to homeless 538 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: people and smiled for photos and ship because you're like 539 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 1: a Captain America and that's great, dude, congratulations for you. 540 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,959 Speaker 1: But like I'm in some real ship. We're out here, 541 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: people are dying. I want to do some real fucking shit. 542 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: As things started to unravel for Phoenix, there were other 543 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 1: troubling lapses in judgment that caused alarm among his teammates. 544 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 1: One incident in particular really rattled Evo. It was a 545 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: bottle eleven am and I showed up to his house 546 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 1: and he has passed out on the couch half naked, 547 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 1: and like, hey, dud, gotta get up, man, we gotta go. 548 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 1: As Phoenix was waking up, EVA went to use the bathroom. 549 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: That's when he noticed the bottle of pills right next 550 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: to the sink of this little medical bottle on its side, 551 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: half empty, looking at it's real hypnol, Like, what the 552 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 1: fuck is he doing with fucking date rape drug? What 553 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 1: the hell is that? So I come out and say, hey, 554 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 1: what's the little bottle of Ruffy's out there? And he 555 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: just started, like almost panic, speaking at a million miles 556 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 1: per hour, talking about how this friend of his had 557 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: roofied purple. So Phoenix got some Roofi's and he was 558 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 1: going to roofy this friend of his in revenge. It 559 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: clearly made sense to him, but I was so lost 560 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,719 Speaker 1: on like this is something you call the police, Ford, bro, 561 00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: this is what? How is this helping any or? Like 562 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: what does this fix? I asked Phoenix about this incident 563 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 1: and he didn't deny it. That's true, Yeah it happened. 564 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: Can you tell? Man? Shouldn't shared that? See when I 565 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:14,839 Speaker 1: said there were things have actually done that are bad, right, 566 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 1: this is one of those things I've actually done. Phoenix 567 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,840 Speaker 1: says he'd seen a guy put real hypnol and his 568 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 1: girlfriend's drink, so he threw out the drink, stole the hypno, 569 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: and decided to take the matter into his own hands. 570 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: I was like, yo, evil, you gotta help me, and uh, 571 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 1: I stole the bottle and he was like, I'm not 572 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 1: going to commit a crime with you. He's like, how 573 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 1: dare you want to hypno someone? I don't even know 574 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:36,879 Speaker 1: if that's where you got it? And I got all 575 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: like ridiculous about it, which made sense. Phoenix went through 576 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: with this plan without Eva. So then I immediately got 577 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 1: on the phone and called someone else, super friend of 578 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 1: b who was like, down, that's terrible. So we went 579 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: to this party and I dropped in this dude's drink 580 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,840 Speaker 1: and he just out right. So I rented a hotel, 581 00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: put him in the hotel, took all of his clothes off, 582 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 1: wrote a note on the door as it thinks for 583 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,319 Speaker 1: the good time, and dipped with the guy passed out. 584 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 1: Phoenix says they took his credit card and ordered shrimp 585 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: and thirty seven bottles of champagne. We threw the shrimp 586 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,280 Speaker 1: all around the room and just put like put cooks bottles, 587 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,360 Speaker 1: and then we put condomns over the tops of cooks bottles. 588 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: So he just woke up in this room with just 589 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 1: like shrimp and cook's bottles. So was that was that 590 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 1: a Phoenix Jones operation or was that a Ben Photo operation? 591 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: I wasn't in my uniform. I would in my regular clothes. 592 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:27,840 Speaker 1: I would never do that as Phoenix Jones. There's no 593 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 1: reason to me this whole story just seems like an 594 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:38,360 Speaker 1: example of Phoenix's immaturity. But it was also an example 595 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 1: of yet another way in which Phoenix was not, as 596 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 1: he keeps insisting perfect. The first time we talked, you 597 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,239 Speaker 1: kept insisting that you were perfect at crime fighting. But 598 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,399 Speaker 1: then but then today I feel like you just keep 599 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: telling all these stories about when you weren't perfect. I'm 600 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: curious how you like square those two ideas in crime fighting? 601 00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: Is just this not breaking the law, not harming other people, 602 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 1: and stopping the crime. Right, moved on it every time. 603 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:06,879 Speaker 1: But what about Nicole. I mean, that's not a win, 604 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,840 Speaker 1: not possible to win. But isn't that a little bit 605 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 1: like no, no, no, no, Well, I'm just saying the 606 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,799 Speaker 1: person who did it never got caught, right, Well, that's 607 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 1: not a success. Then my job is not to catch 608 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 1: the people who do crimes, is to protect the people 609 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 1: who are getting hurt from the crime. You have a 610 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,279 Speaker 1: misconception of what crime fighting is because you don't have 611 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 1: any experience on the streets. There's no tidy closed corners, 612 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: not even in police work. Never right. But there's not 613 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,320 Speaker 1: one story where I showed up and it got worse, 614 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:39,879 Speaker 1: where I showed up and no one got helped. Where 615 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 1: I showed up and they're like, you broke the law, 616 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,360 Speaker 1: or like they see me twenty seven times trying to 617 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,439 Speaker 1: say I broke the line. I fucking didn't. There's never 618 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 1: been any of that. It's been flawless. So I don't 619 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:54,239 Speaker 1: care if you don't agree, you're just wrong. I hate 620 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 1: to beat a dead horse here, but I am fixated 621 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 1: on this claim of Phoenix is that he is perfect 622 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: at crime fighting, largely because I want to believe in 623 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: Phoenix strongs and I want to believe in what he 624 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 1: stands for. I see the need for real life superheroes 625 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: and the potential benefit to society that can provide. But 626 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 1: Phoenix's life is messy, and there are so many people 627 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 1: who say he's betrayed them that it's hard to know 628 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,800 Speaker 1: if he is to be trusted. And Phoenix has claimed 629 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: that he is perfect is one of the instances where 630 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,880 Speaker 1: I feel entirely confident. Pushing back against his version of 631 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: the story. We have had this debate where you say 632 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 1: you're perfect crime fighting. I disagree. What I'm more interested 633 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 1: in is like why because you are admittedly have this 634 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 1: disastrous life, Like you're always like late to things like 635 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 1: your cart, you have a lot of personal struggles. And 636 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,640 Speaker 1: the reason I find the idea that you can be 637 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: perfect in crime fighting is like when you put on 638 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:52,759 Speaker 1: the suit, you don't become a different person. So like, 639 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 1: how in your mind you justify this compartmentalization where you're 640 00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 1: perfect at this thing, but everything else in your life 641 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: is a mess. And more importantly, like why do you 642 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,240 Speaker 1: feel this need to be perfect? I don't. I'm single 643 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 1: minded to the point of recklessness, and that's why I'm 644 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:08,799 Speaker 1: so good at crime fighting and why I'm so bad 645 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:10,719 Speaker 1: at everything else. Like I've got to come to an 646 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,399 Speaker 1: interview today, right, But my car got told because of something, 647 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:15,400 Speaker 1: so now I'm focused on that car Tale and I'm 648 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: late for the interview. But when you walk up to 649 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,360 Speaker 1: a crime scenario, it happens in front of you and 650 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 1: it involves all of your attention. It's not ideal. They 651 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,440 Speaker 1: need to be per but it's just what I am. 652 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,360 Speaker 1: Every time we get into this debate, we reach a stalemate. 653 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,800 Speaker 1: But regardless of whether or not you believe Phoenix is logic, 654 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,520 Speaker 1: I think it's safe to say that what he sees 655 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,800 Speaker 1: as as great as failure as a superhero. Nicole Westbrook's 656 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 1: murder changed his life forever. I don't know it was weird, 657 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 1: but if we like makes chapters of people's lives were 658 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 1: like in like our time, we use before Christ like 659 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 1: B C N A D. My life would be like 660 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 1: before Nicole and after it just never got better. And 661 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:04,640 Speaker 1: it's really like where the team started unraveling. That unraveling 662 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,440 Speaker 1: would ultimately lead to a superhero breakup on a mass scale. 663 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:13,440 Speaker 1: Next time the rain City Superheroes come crashing to an end. 664 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,440 Speaker 1: The Superhero Complex is hosted and written by Me David 665 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:44,760 Speaker 1: Weinberg and reported by Me, Amalia Sortland and Caroline THORNA 666 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: production from Amalia Shortland and Caroline thornha Sean Glenn, Max 667 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:54,560 Speaker 1: O'Brien and David Waters are executive producers. Fact checking by 668 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:59,520 Speaker 1: Andrew Schwartz. Production management from Sharie Houston, Frankie Taylor and 669 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:04,239 Speaker 1: Charlie Wolf. Sound design, mixing and scoring by Nicholas Alexander 670 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:09,240 Speaker 1: and Daniel Kempson. Music supervision by Nicholas Alexander and David Waters. 671 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:14,960 Speaker 1: Original music is composed by Paul Housden. Special thanks to 672 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:20,520 Speaker 1: Peter Tangan, Willard Foxton, Matt Olmera, Katrina Norvelle Beth and Macaluso, 673 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:24,560 Speaker 1: Born Rosenbaum, Shelby Shnkman and all the team at U 674 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 1: t A. For more from Novel, visit novel dot Audio