Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature feature production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host
Speaker 1: of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology,
Speaker 1: and today on the show, we're talking about the belly
Speaker 1: of the beast.
Speaker 2: And how you can escape being eaten.
Speaker 1: Well, maybe not you personally, but we have three, actually
Speaker 1: four brave creatures who are able to Houdini their way
Speaker 1: out of an animal using some very creative exits discover
Speaker 1: the semore as we answer the angel question, who does
Speaker 1: it best getting out of a toad or frog?
Speaker 2: Joining me today is author of the new book.
Speaker 1: I'm starting to worry about this black box of doom,
Speaker 1: which should be out right now.
Speaker 2: Jason Pargin, Welcome.
Speaker 3: So I spent the last few days watching videos of
Speaker 3: the adorable baby hippo mooding modang yeah at the zoo
Speaker 3: and Thailand. Is it possible this amount of discussion of
Speaker 3: the adorable baby hippo? Would this justify you putting mooding
Speaker 3: in the thumbnail for this episode, which would vastly, vastly
Speaker 3: increase listenership, I think, and if you could even mention
Speaker 3: we talked about the adorable pygmy hippo mooding and some
Speaker 3: other things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, mostly things crawling out of other things. But but yeah,
Speaker 1: mood really it's all about Moodang. I do love moodan.
Speaker 1: I don't know how to game the system such.
Speaker 2: That I can squeeze.
Speaker 1: Attention from mood Dang's adorable round body onto myself. But
Speaker 1: I actually recently had a bit of a plumbing snafu,
Speaker 1: and I do feel like I probably looked almost exactly
Speaker 1: like one of those photos of mooding, because every time
Speaker 1: there's a photo of her, she's like kind of like wet,
Speaker 1: like hosed down wet, and looks surprised and angry about it.
Speaker 2: And that happened to me.
Speaker 1: I accidentally sprayed a bunch of dirty sink water on
Speaker 1: myself by removing a U trap when I should definitely
Speaker 1: not have done that, and I looked just like muding.
Speaker 3: Anybody out there, if you need a visual while you're
Speaker 3: listening to this, just go look up. It's moo space
Speaker 3: DNG and just enjoy the various videos of mooding basically
Speaker 3: as two modes, either at sleep or biting something sleep.
Speaker 3: And it's tiny, it's not hurting you. It's just running around,
Speaker 3: tiny little miniature hippo you can hold in your hands,
Speaker 3: just biting everything in sight. So just watch that and
Speaker 3: then that will be our last mention of mooding. But
Speaker 3: that's okay because still in your mind you can think,
Speaker 3: if this asks the mooding episode, we're dedicating it to mouding.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we are.
Speaker 1: This is this is an honor of muding because Mudan
Speaker 1: likes to eat things, and this is it's almost like
Speaker 1: a cautionary tale because you definitely don't want to eat
Speaker 1: things that then like come back out of you, which
Speaker 1: is never a good time. So that is what we're
Speaker 1: talking about today. You know, we can also just sandwich
Speaker 1: this between adorable tales of muding, because honestly, this is
Speaker 1: kind of gross, a little bit of a gross episode,
Speaker 1: so like, well, we'll do a palate cleanser. We'll talk
Speaker 1: about mooding more after this.
Speaker 2: But yeah, So there is a new new eel.
Speaker 1: It's actually an old eel, but new news news about
Speaker 1: eels that they can come out of a fish when
Speaker 1: they are eaten by a fish.
Speaker 2: So there was a YouTube video.
Speaker 1: And a New York Times article by Annie Roth, and
Speaker 1: this is about eels escaping fish stomachs. Now Jason I
Speaker 1: have sent you the the film footage of an eel
Speaker 1: making its way out of a fish, and I encourage
Speaker 1: you to watch it.
Speaker 3: So I guess we should. You did kind of warn
Speaker 3: people to some of you out there, this might be
Speaker 3: the most upsetting episode you've ever listened to, because I
Speaker 3: guess I knew that lots of predators in the wild
Speaker 3: swallow their food whole. I mean, my favorite video anywhere
Speaker 3: is my favorite genre of video as side of moodang videos,
Speaker 3: is of pelicans trying to eat things are not supposed
Speaker 3: to be eating, and like a zookeeper will have to
Speaker 3: come and pull it out of its mouth. And pelicans,
Speaker 3: of course do not chew their food. They swallow it.
Speaker 3: And I guess I never thought of what happens, Okay,
Speaker 3: specific I never thought of how long it takes, maybe
Speaker 3: for a fish or an eel or some other food
Speaker 3: to finally die when it's inside of a creature. But
Speaker 3: in this case, I guess they just got extremely fortunate
Speaker 3: that they were able to get an X ray of
Speaker 3: this process, right, Like, that's how they found out this
Speaker 3: was going on, is they were able to see it
Speaker 3: from the inside and watch this thing worm its way
Speaker 3: out of the body of the fish that had eaten it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is like, this is a study.
Speaker 1: So they were able to X ray and observe what
Speaker 1: happens when these eels are ingested by fish because of
Speaker 1: these observations that sometimes these eels can escape. So let's
Speaker 1: talk first about the eels. These are young Japanese eels.
Speaker 1: They're juveniles. They are eels are delicious treats for both
Speaker 1: people and animals, so a lot of things like to
Speaker 1: eat them. And also when they are small, they are
Speaker 1: very edible. They're like tiny little noodles. They do eventually
Speaker 1: grow to be about fourteen inches, which is around thirty
Speaker 1: five centimeters, or if they're female, they can grow up
Speaker 1: to twenty four inches or sixty centimeters. But they go
Speaker 1: through a life cycle where when they are young they're
Speaker 1: quite small, you know, like maybe like thinner than a pencil,
Speaker 1: maybe about as long as you're pinky. So they are
Speaker 1: often eaten by fish, but once they're in the fish,
Speaker 1: they do not give up. So researchers like you mentioned,
Speaker 1: they use these X rays to see what was happening
Speaker 1: inside of these fish, and apparently these eels like swim
Speaker 1: around in circles inside like this kind of frantic swimming,
Speaker 1: but it's not just panicking. It is kind of like
Speaker 1: that they are looking for an exit.
Speaker 2: And then what.
Speaker 1: They usually do is they go up the esophagus and
Speaker 1: out one of the gill slits backwards.
Speaker 2: And one of the reasons they often go out backwards
Speaker 2: is the.
Speaker 1: Fish will actually eat the eel head first and kind
Speaker 1: of slurp it up, so then the eel to orient
Speaker 1: itself to come back out, it'll kind of go backwards.
Speaker 3: And here I guess we should address the elephant and
Speaker 3: the room. We are both well aware that there is
Speaker 3: a common sexual fetish around fantasies of being eaten a
Speaker 3: whole called vorophelia or just var in the community. If
Speaker 3: you find any of this discussion arousing, we are not
Speaker 3: judging you, But you don't need to tell us that,
Speaker 3: right like, you can keep that to yourself because you
Speaker 3: know some people will be disgusted by these stories we're
Speaker 3: going to tell. Some people will feel different things. You
Speaker 3: don't need to go on the internet and let us
Speaker 3: know what you're feeling. It's fine, just keep that private.
Speaker 1: I don't want to harsh shermellow, but I do want
Speaker 1: to emphasize that the eels in this situation are definitely
Speaker 1: not having a good time. They're not getting horny by
Speaker 1: being kind of like burned by stomach acid and they're
Speaker 1: not They're not happy about it.
Speaker 2: So they are and it's kind.
Speaker 1: Of horrifying to see, like when you think about it,
Speaker 1: right and again, like you know, like you do you
Speaker 1: in your own head, there's nothing wrong with that, but in.
Speaker 2: Real life, like this feels like it would be.
Speaker 1: So horrifying because you are It's not like they're in
Speaker 1: the stuff. Like the idea of being eaten, right, it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: well you just get killed as you get eaten, you
Speaker 1: get chewed up in the little pieces. But no, in
Speaker 1: this case, it's like you are being like you're being
Speaker 1: burned to death by acid, which is just not for
Speaker 1: me personally. Up it's very upsetting, and I do feel
Speaker 1: very bad for these these eels. And it's interesting because
Speaker 1: when you first look at this video, kind of feel
Speaker 1: sympathy for the fish because it looks like it's some
Speaker 1: kind of parasite like wiggling out of it. But no,
Speaker 1: this was a thing that it tried to eat and
Speaker 1: now is like wiggling backwards out of the gill slet
Speaker 1: you know that, like saying that, note ginger rogers did
Speaker 1: everything like fred Astaed did, but backwards in and heels. Well,
Speaker 1: this eel does it backwards and in a fish. So
Speaker 1: I think that's mighty impressive.
Speaker 3: But I think the question that's immediately going to come
Speaker 3: up in the listener's minds, and the question I just
Speaker 3: asked myself now, it's like, well, how because this is
Speaker 3: a common form of eating, like swallowing without chewing. Not
Speaker 3: every animal chews their food before swallowing, of course, but
Speaker 3: it's like, well, why then doesn't this happen all the time?
Speaker 3: Why don't Why aren't pelicans constantly getting damaged from the
Speaker 3: inside by a thrashing fish, Because even if they are
Speaker 3: drowned or burned or whatever, it doesn't happen instantly, it
Speaker 3: doesn't happen within it. In some cases, like a it
Speaker 3: can be hours later. So it's like, why would it
Speaker 3: seems like that would be such an evolutionary disadvantage to
Speaker 3: swallow your food alive, not just whole, but alive, because
Speaker 3: it is a fairly common way to eat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's different strategies that animals come up with
Speaker 1: for eating. So one thing is when you do swallow
Speaker 1: things whole, you're able to very quickly ingest something without
Speaker 1: taking the time to chewing takes time. Some other fish
Speaker 1: can come up and steal your food from you. If
Speaker 1: you swallow something really quickly and you swallow it whole,
Speaker 1: you are maximizing.
Speaker 2: The speed at which you eat.
Speaker 1: Something, and you're also minimizing the chance that that will
Speaker 1: get away when it's outside of your stomach, right, and
Speaker 1: it is in the case for these fish, Like it
Speaker 1: only takes about three and a half minutes for the
Speaker 1: eels to die inside of the fish, so the stomach
Speaker 1: acid actually works pretty quickly, and so a lot of
Speaker 1: these eels are actually not going to make it out,
Speaker 1: so it's a race against the clock to get out.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I think that you do actually have
Speaker 1: a lot of interesting techniques that some animals, particularly aquatic animals,
Speaker 1: use to prevent this from like the escape from happening.
Speaker 1: One is like sea turtles actually have these backward facing
Speaker 1: they're called denticles.
Speaker 2: They look like spikes.
Speaker 1: They're this sort of hard, fleshy material that is like
Speaker 1: spikes that are pointed backwards in its throat, kind of
Speaker 1: like a sarlac pit or a dune warm. But the
Speaker 1: purpose of that is as it's swallowing fish, the fish
Speaker 1: can go down down there esophagus, but they can't come
Speaker 1: back up because those spikes will prevent them. Penguins also
Speaker 1: have that, and so yeah, I mean it is it's
Speaker 1: a trade off, right because then if you're you think, well,
Speaker 1: why don't why doesn't every animal have these spikes, It's like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, it is it's something that is, uh, you're
Speaker 1: putting resources into having these this part of your anatomy
Speaker 1: andol Like the important thing to remember about evolution is
Speaker 1: it's not creating the most efficient perfect organisms. If you
Speaker 1: survive and you have offspring, like that's good enough. So
Speaker 1: like if you're a fish and you're just eating like
Speaker 1: anything you can that moves and it's going in your
Speaker 1: stomach and most of that like stays in there and
Speaker 1: you digest it, then you're fine. But of course there's
Speaker 1: pressure on animals then to develop strategies to escape the stomach.
Speaker 1: It's just very it's very difficult, right, So a lot
Speaker 1: and it's very risky because you will often just end
Speaker 1: up dead anyways. So a lot of these strategies that
Speaker 1: animals have is to prevent being eaten, whereas like, once
Speaker 1: you're eaten, there are there are some like and we're
Speaker 1: talking about them today, but it's not it's like a
Speaker 1: last ditch strategy. So some animals just don't really spend
Speaker 1: the I guess evolutionary coins, that's not really how it works,
Speaker 1: but like that, they're more geared towards avoiding getting in
Speaker 1: there in that stomach in the first place.
Speaker 3: We don't spend enough time thinking about how the fact
Speaker 3: that for most things that are alive, one of the
Speaker 3: primary features of their life is that they're going to
Speaker 3: be food for something at some point. It's because as humans,
Speaker 3: of course, you know, as humans, the entire planet, in
Speaker 3: its entire ecosystem, exists only to be a buffet for
Speaker 3: us to eat. So we are separated from that process
Speaker 3: of that knowledge of having to the point where we
Speaker 3: think it's weird, where it's like, oh, my gosh, this
Speaker 3: surfer was attacked by a shark. How rude of the
Speaker 3: shark to when we are trying to enjoy our ocean
Speaker 3: that exists for us to have fun in, and this,
Speaker 3: this murderous psychopath of a shark just attacked this man
Speaker 3: for no reason. Like now you stepped into its kitchen.
Speaker 3: It has no idea it would have preferred to have
Speaker 3: eaten a seal, but it kind of thought you wear
Speaker 3: a seal for a moment. And yeah, it's like a
Speaker 3: couple of bites in is like you yucky.
Speaker 2: I don't like it. Yeah, I mean I think that.
Speaker 1: Have you seen the movie Nope? Oh yes, yeah that
Speaker 1: I really like that one really scared me because I think,
Speaker 1: I mean it maybe it wasn't like scary in the
Speaker 1: sense of like the you know, modern sort of jump
Speaker 1: scared type movie. It didn't really have that, but it
Speaker 1: was really like creepy and kind of lingered because that
Speaker 1: whole the whole scene of this you know, spoilers, but
Speaker 1: there's like an alien, weird creature that almost looks like
Speaker 1: a bouncy castle but scary somehow eight a bunch of
Speaker 1: people and they're all like just stuck in there, crammed
Speaker 1: in there, panicking, and that is uh, not not sexy
Speaker 1: at all of me. That actually is very terrifying to me.
Speaker 1: The idea of like you're you know, you're you're a
Speaker 1: whole person, you have a whole life, and then just
Speaker 1: being reduced to like nope, you're just like something's food
Speaker 1: and you're there's just no heed to you going through
Speaker 1: something horrible, right, Uh.
Speaker 2: That that's quite upsetting.
Speaker 3: And this is this is when you realize that the
Speaker 3: one thing when you talk about evolution and all the
Speaker 3: factors that go into it, being merciful toward the food
Speaker 3: is not one of the factors that exist in evolution,
Speaker 3: like being kind or putting something out of its misery.
Speaker 3: The concept of your praise misery is not a factor
Speaker 3: in anywhere in the animal in the animal kingdom. So yeah,
Speaker 3: you'll find examples of creatures. Something will eat one end
Speaker 3: of a beast while the other end is still alive,
Speaker 3: and they don't care. It just means that the meat
Speaker 3: is fresh.
Speaker 1: They don't have a concept of it. I think it's
Speaker 1: really nice that humans have a concept of it. I
Speaker 1: don't think it's wrong of us to think, like, hey,
Speaker 1: maybe we shouldn't make animals suffer before we eat them.
Speaker 1: We should make their lives pretty decent up until you know,
Speaker 1: we do eat them.
Speaker 2: I think that's nice. I like that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, animals definitely don't necessarily have that consideration. Like
Speaker 1: dolphins are often vilified and I'm kind of tired of
Speaker 1: it because you know, it's I think it's like a
Speaker 1: backlash against the Lisa Frank version of dolphins. But they're
Speaker 1: just they're just like any kind of predator, you know.
Speaker 1: But they will smack the dickens out of octopuses, and
Speaker 1: it's not just to be a jerk. They are doing
Speaker 1: that because if they swallow the octopus alive, it can
Speaker 1: choke them to death. So when they smack the dickens
Speaker 1: out of an octopus, it's like us chopping our steak
Speaker 1: up into small pieces so we don't choke. Because if
Speaker 1: the octopus is still alive, it can like use its
Speaker 1: tentacles in its section to like stick onto the dolphin's
Speaker 1: throat and that can kill the dolphin.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And if you want to see these stories as inspirational,
Speaker 3: you know, because yeah, somebody got swallowed and they got
Speaker 3: back out. There's like a metaphor or something.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you get eaten by a fish and then you
Speaker 1: go out of its gill slit, just like in life
Speaker 1: out if you get eaten by a fish, that's metaphorical
Speaker 1: for capitalism. You can crawl out of the gill slit,
Speaker 1: which is metaphorical for.
Speaker 2: I don't know, community.
Speaker 1: Anyways, we'll workshop that and when we get back, we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about another animal that can survive.
Speaker 2: Getting eaten but chooses a.
Speaker 1: Different exit root. So, Jason, here's another animal. It is
Speaker 1: called the Hydrobia peringea oulvay snail which is a big mouth.
Speaker 2: So so we'll just call it h oulvay for.
Speaker 1: Now, or I don't know, poopy butt snails, whatever you prefer.
Speaker 1: These are aquatic snails that can survive being eaten by
Speaker 1: aquatic birds, and they may even benefit by being eaten
Speaker 1: by getting dispersed to new wetland territories. So yeah, so
Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about this. Aquatic birds often
Speaker 1: have very rapid digestive systems. We kind of talked about
Speaker 1: this earlier. Different animals have different eating and digestive strategies.
Speaker 1: So human beings, we chew our food and there's this
Speaker 1: kind of predigestion that goes on in our mouth and
Speaker 1: as we chew food and then we swallow it. There
Speaker 1: are ungulates that have like different sort of different parts
Speaker 1: of their gut that does some kind of like predigestion
Speaker 1: before it goes into another part of their gut where
Speaker 1: it gets digested more like ruminants, and so they're very
Speaker 1: like There are even some animals where they have stuff
Speaker 1: that are like fermenting inside their goullet that they then
Speaker 1: sort of like predigest before it passes.
Speaker 2: On to the main stomach.
Speaker 1: Ducks are sort of like the speed Eater's Hot Dog
Speaker 1: contest animals, Like they will eat fast, and they digest fast,
Speaker 1: and they poop fast. If you want to know what
Speaker 1: I'm talking about, look at a video of ducks eating peas. Also,
Speaker 1: just to improve your life, Like I like, if you're
Speaker 1: ever feeling stressed or upset or angry or any kind
Speaker 1: of negative emotion, if you look at a video of
Speaker 1: duck eating peas, it just grounds you.
Speaker 2: It's lovely.
Speaker 3: Yeah, especially if they've got a bunch of ducks. It's
Speaker 3: a very frantic and it seems like a kind of
Speaker 3: a joyful process. They're not neat eaters at all. They're not.
Speaker 3: But no, it's hilarious. And I'm sure the people on
Speaker 3: TikTok making these videos they're keeping the ducks's pets, which
Speaker 3: you probably should not do. But no, that's another good
Speaker 3: visual if you've run out of pygmy hippo videos.
Speaker 2: I mean ducks's pets.
Speaker 1: Is it's fine like in terms of the ducks well being,
Speaker 1: because ducks are often domesticated. But for your sake, you
Speaker 1: probably don't want to duck as a pet.
Speaker 2: They will.
Speaker 1: They'll absolutely poop everything and poop everywhere because again, their
Speaker 1: digestion is really really fast, and so they will eat,
Speaker 1: digest it quickly and then poop stuff out. So researchers
Speaker 1: at the Netherlands Institute of Ecology fed ducks live snails
Speaker 1: of a variety of species and found out that one
Speaker 1: particular species, these h Oulvay snails, can survive the ordeal
Speaker 1: intact the entire getting eaten, passing through the digestive system,
Speaker 1: and getting pooped out. So these snails, these h Olvay,
Speaker 1: are small yellowish conical snails which live in marine and
Speaker 1: brackish environments, including salt marshes. They're pretty small, they grow
Speaker 1: to be about five millimeters long, and so they can
Speaker 1: be easily eaten as a snack, but they can also
Speaker 1: be accidentally ingested by herbivorous aquatic birds. So a lot
Speaker 1: of aquatic birds aren't really interested in the snails, but
Speaker 1: they'll eat them up anyways because they're eating algae. They're
Speaker 1: eaten bits of aquatic plants, and if the snails are
Speaker 1: on there, it's going to get in a bird. It's
Speaker 1: like if you've ever owned an aquirement, an aquarium and fish,
Speaker 1: and you buy plants from the pet store.
Speaker 2: Suddenly you also have snails. It just happens.
Speaker 1: So Yeah, in experimental settings, these snails were able to
Speaker 1: cope with duct digestive juices for five hours, which is incredible.
Speaker 3: And I've got to say we kind of joked about
Speaker 3: this being a metaphor, but it kind of works because
Speaker 3: here is a system that is not designed to help you,
Speaker 3: or it's not designed for you to survive. It is
Speaker 3: designed to extract the life out of you to benefit
Speaker 3: somebody else. But you can make it through and get
Speaker 3: pooped out the other end and actually wind up in
Speaker 3: a better place. Yeah, if you can hold onto what
Speaker 3: makes what makes you, you, you can hold onto your
Speaker 3: humanity or your snail your snail hood. Yeah, you can
Speaker 3: survive the process. But you just have to understand the
Speaker 3: process does not love you. It thinks of you as
Speaker 3: it's food. It is trying to feed off of you.
Speaker 3: But you can you play your cards right, You can
Speaker 3: hit your ride you may get pooped out in an
Speaker 3: island that's better than the one you were.
Speaker 2: On, exactly.
Speaker 1: That's beautiful when life is a duck, be a little
Speaker 1: snail and get pooped out somewhere better. So this is
Speaker 1: perhaps not the most comfortable method of transportation. Many of
Speaker 1: these snails did indeed succumb to death by duck, but
Speaker 1: enough of them survived that it seems that these ducks
Speaker 1: are unwittingly aiding the snails and dispersing two different areas. So, like,
Speaker 1: the whole point of this research was not like, Wow,
Speaker 1: look how cool it is that the snail gets pooped
Speaker 1: out alive, although I'm sure that helped them get a
Speaker 1: research grant. A lot of it is about like the
Speaker 1: ecology of like how do these snails get from one
Speaker 1: marsh to another one? Like you know, how are they dispersed?
Speaker 1: And it's especially interesting or I guess relevant and helpful
Speaker 1: when it comes to say like invasive snails. Now, these
Speaker 1: snails are not necessarily invasive in these areas, but you know,
Speaker 1: it's it is it's just very It's wild to me
Speaker 1: that you could have a duck swown around eaten duck stuff,
Speaker 1: like like aquatic plants and then fly off and poop
Speaker 1: and now the snail has an entirely new wetland area
Speaker 1: to colonize.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and well, we don't think about the fact that
Speaker 3: this is why seeds exist and why they're designed the
Speaker 3: way they are. They're designed to be eaten and to
Speaker 3: survive the digestive tract into and to get pooped out elsewhere.
Speaker 3: It's like, well, you're stilling the same thing. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: that seed is designed to not get digested. And then
Speaker 3: that's how plants, you know, disburse themselves through. Obviously not
Speaker 3: a strategy they thought of because they're just plants. They
Speaker 3: don't know what they're doing. But that's still natural selection.
Speaker 3: It works works very well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, pisely. Yeah, it's it is. It is very interesting
Speaker 1: because I think in this city they were also looking
Speaker 1: at things like seeds and stuff, but the snail part
Speaker 1: was that's the fun stuff, because like just imagining this
Speaker 1: fantastic voyage of this little snail mining its own business
Speaker 1: suddenly gets gobbled up by a duck and goes like,
Speaker 1: I mean, it just must. I don't really think snails
Speaker 1: have that much in terms of a consciousness, but can
Speaker 1: you imagine being gobbled up by an unspeakable, horrific monster
Speaker 1: and then suddenly like seeing some sunshine and you're now
Speaker 1: in like this new garden of Eden, and you're alive,
Speaker 1: and enough of your buddies are alive that you can
Speaker 1: you know, start a new a whole new seal society.
Speaker 1: That there's a whole new snail society is just you know,
Speaker 1: like I wonder if that'll ever happen to like humans,
Speaker 1: Like we're just gonna get eaten by a big space alien,
Speaker 1: have no idea, idea what kind of like interdimensional travel
Speaker 1: is going on, and then suddenly get pooped out somewhere else.
Speaker 3: Well and without the eating and pooping part. This is
Speaker 3: something that for example, dogs experience all the time. Whenever
Speaker 3: I see somebody taking their dog on a plane, I
Speaker 3: always think, well, the dog doesn't know what's flying, It
Speaker 3: doesn't know what a plane is. It just knows that
Speaker 3: it got taken inside this little room and then when
Speaker 3: it left that room, it's now.
Speaker 2: Or whatever.
Speaker 1: I think about this all the time with my dog
Speaker 1: because we go on the elevator and I'm.
Speaker 2: Just like, how do you how do you conceive of
Speaker 2: this elevator?
Speaker 1: Because we go in this room, it makes a noise,
Speaker 1: and then the door opens again and now we're in
Speaker 1: different room. It must just seem like magic to you.
Speaker 1: I don't know honestly she thinks that much about it,
Speaker 1: but if she does, this just must seem like, well,
Speaker 1: this is you know, you're a wizard.
Speaker 2: I guess this is just wizardry.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I've when we've had to take our golden
Speaker 3: retriever to a hotel that's dog friendly, I've never seen
Speaker 3: her express like fright or like what what what happened?
Speaker 3: The world went away? It's always just like, all right,
Speaker 3: let's go.
Speaker 1: This is think dogs are just okay knowing that they
Speaker 1: don't know stuff, right, Like they just accept it. They're like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know what's going on, but that's
Speaker 1: okay as long as as long as they're comfortable and
Speaker 1: as long as they're getting treats. But yeah, I just
Speaker 1: I do wonder about that because it's it seems like
Speaker 1: we took our dog on vacation recently. She hates planes,
Speaker 1: so we avoid that, but we did go on a
Speaker 1: train and she just winds up in this entirely different city,
Speaker 1: like we're by a beach, right, and she's just like.
Speaker 2: All right, I guess we're here now. I don't even
Speaker 2: like how does it's It blows.
Speaker 1: My mind how she conceives of that, or if she's
Speaker 1: just like there is no room in her head to
Speaker 1: even question what's happened.
Speaker 3: Gosh, the idea that life is possible in that state
Speaker 3: of mind where you're not anticipating what's about to happen.
Speaker 3: In many cases, years like going with it because like,
Speaker 3: what what did you expect to see when the plane
Speaker 3: door opened? And the answer is nothing. They were they
Speaker 3: weren't expecting about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, completely, Yeah, it's like the.
Speaker 1: Loud noise is stopped now, the smells are more more typical,
Speaker 1: So I'm happier. I think that's it. Speaking of dogs, Uh,
Speaker 1: the best part of this study on the snails going
Speaker 1: through the ducks is how the researchers got the mallard
Speaker 1: ducks too in just the snails, since these ducks are
Speaker 1: not typically all that interested in these snails. So the
Speaker 1: researchers the same thing that you do to feed your
Speaker 1: dog or your cat a pill. They just rolled the
Speaker 1: snails up in some bread and fed the ducks that way.
Speaker 2: It's just like, I love.
Speaker 1: It when research is silly, like we're serious researchers. Come on,
Speaker 1: mister duck, you gotta take your snail pill. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: roll it up in a little bit of bread dough
Speaker 1: for you.
Speaker 2: Just incredible.
Speaker 3: There's a wonderful series of TikTok videos where a woman
Speaker 3: is pretending to be Charles Darwin's girlfriend, and the bit
Speaker 3: is that every time they observe like an animal being
Speaker 3: eaten by something else, she like runs it and tries
Speaker 3: to save it. It's like or she's like, well, I
Speaker 3: saw that this this this little wounded this little wounded
Speaker 3: duck was born without wings and without a beak, and
Speaker 3: it can't feed itself. So I've adopted it and I'm
Speaker 3: feeding it, and point out that she's just ruining the
Speaker 3: evolution that he's trying to observe it every stage because
Speaker 3: she couldn't bear I always think about that way and
Speaker 3: think about like animal scientists like this part. You know,
Speaker 3: the study is probably great and fun and you would
Speaker 3: have to develop such an affinity for wildlife, but also
Speaker 3: ninety percent of it has to be just the saddest
Speaker 3: thing you've ever you've ever seen.
Speaker 2: It depends.
Speaker 1: I think like some of it is like literally just like, hey,
Speaker 1: we're gonna feed these ducks some bread and some of
Speaker 1: it's like, well, I've made an emotional attachment to these
Speaker 1: mice and I have to kill them at the end
Speaker 1: of this study. So like, yeah, it can be rough,
Speaker 1: but this is this is a fun one. I enjoy
Speaker 1: feeding the ducks the snail bread, especially given that a
Speaker 1: lot of these snails make it out alive. It's like
Speaker 1: the best of both worlds. You're feeding ducks and you're
Speaker 1: not killing all of the snails at least. So we're
Speaker 1: gonna take a quick break and when we get back out,
Speaker 1: we are gonna find out who makes it.
Speaker 2: Out of a toad the best.
Speaker 1: We are going to talk about a marvelous adventure through
Speaker 1: a toad. And we have a couple of animals. We
Speaker 1: have a beetle and we have a tiny snake. Now, Jason,
Speaker 1: which do you think is going to make it out
Speaker 1: of the toad and or frog better?
Speaker 3: You would think the smaller the creature, the better your chances. Right,
Speaker 3: I'm picturing a snake as I don't.
Speaker 1: Know, to be fair, this is a tiny This is
Speaker 1: a tiny snake. It's thinner than a pencil and it's
Speaker 1: about four to six inches long. So just to just
Speaker 1: to give you, I'm not trying to push you, okay,
Speaker 1: in any direction of who to pick. I'm just giving
Speaker 1: you all the information. And then the beetle is likewise
Speaker 1: very small.
Speaker 3: That's a small snake for me to eat. I think
Speaker 3: that is a very big snake for a toad to
Speaker 3: eat in my opinion.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're leaning towards like the beetle being better
Speaker 1: at this, Well, you're you are right, this was not
Speaker 1: this is not a trick question. But it does turn
Speaker 1: out that both of them seem to be able to
Speaker 1: make it out of a frog and or toad. So
Speaker 1: let's first talk about the less good, less skillful Hoodini,
Speaker 1: but still quite skillful bra Many blind snakes, so Brominy
Speaker 1: blind snakes look like long, dark gray worms. They really
Speaker 1: do not look like they are snakes. They don't they're
Speaker 1: worm shaped. They don't have like a distinct head you
Speaker 1: know have snakes. It's like they sure their body is
Speaker 1: a tube, but their head is like angular or rounded,
Speaker 1: like you can see where their head is, whereas a
Speaker 1: worm is just kind of one like shape. These these
Speaker 1: blind snakes also do not have a well defined head.
Speaker 1: They do have a head, but you can't even see
Speaker 1: their eyes because they actually have scales that grow over
Speaker 1: their eyes, and they are indeed blind. And they spend
Speaker 1: pretty much their whole lives underground like a worm, so
Speaker 1: they are very easily mistaken for a worm, and they
Speaker 1: spend their time burrowing in dirt in many different environments
Speaker 1: in Asia and Africa. I already mentioned. It's like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's quite small. It's about it's like a finger, but
Speaker 1: a very skinny finger. Like I'd say it's a thinner
Speaker 1: than like a pencil. It's kind of like a you know,
Speaker 1: one of those what are they called pipe cleaners? But
Speaker 1: you know, a snake?
Speaker 3: I okay, this thing's clearly a worm. What makes it
Speaker 3: a snake? What earns you the scientific designation snake? If
Speaker 3: have a skeleton or something, what's the difference?
Speaker 1: It's a vertebrate unlike a worm. It is related to snakes.
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's just it's like it branches off of
Speaker 1: the same evolutionary tree as snakes, so like it shares
Speaker 1: a common ancestor with other snakes, and it is it's
Speaker 1: still got a mouth and a jaw and a skeleton,
Speaker 1: whereas a worm is like a completely different part of
Speaker 1: the evolutionary tree is an invertebrate. It does not have
Speaker 1: like a spine or anything like that. It is it
Speaker 1: is a warm so but they are both very noodle
Speaker 1: like and easy pickens for predators like toads and frogs,
Speaker 1: who are similar in terms of their indiscretion when it
Speaker 1: comes to eating. They are like, these animals are so
Speaker 1: I love them, but their brains are just so like
Speaker 1: geared towards eating whatever they see. You can put an
Speaker 1: iPhone and put like fake flies on the iPhone and
Speaker 1: they will just endlessly like try to eat the flies
Speaker 1: on the iPhone.
Speaker 2: They don't learn.
Speaker 1: They will try to fit anything in their mouth, so
Speaker 1: it's not surprising that they will just eat one of
Speaker 1: these tiny snakes if they can fit it in their mouths.
Speaker 1: But apparently, at least in according to an observation, these
Speaker 1: blind snakes can survive going through a toad's entire digestive system.
Speaker 1: So there has been a single documented observation of the
Speaker 1: Brahminy blind snake emerging out of a toad butt intact
Speaker 1: and alive, although it was a little bit dented where
Speaker 1: the toad's sphincter muscles closed in on it, so it
Speaker 1: wasn't completely like unchanged by the journey.
Speaker 3: Don't look up this photo, m there's no need. If
Speaker 3: you want to look up a visual instead, look up
Speaker 3: a video called Pelican tries to eat capybara.
Speaker 2: Hmmm, that's cute.
Speaker 3: The famous, yes, the best video on the internet because
Speaker 3: they similarly, pelicans don't pay it. They'll just walk around
Speaker 3: just biting things to see if it's food. Like, they
Speaker 3: don't discriminate. So there's a zoo or something closure where
Speaker 3: the pelicans and the capy bears, and you know, any
Speaker 3: place where those capy bears is very chill atmosphere. They're
Speaker 3: all just standing around kind of not doing anything. There's
Speaker 3: like a water running and the pel you're just kind
Speaker 3: of wandering out, wandering around very slowly and just trying
Speaker 3: to bite it. The capy bear is trying to eat it,
Speaker 3: and it tries and capit. Berera doesn't even look at
Speaker 3: it because it's clear this happens all the time, and
Speaker 3: then it eventually gives up like, oh, all right, that's food,
Speaker 3: and then a few minutes later just tries again.
Speaker 1: It's like because it's like the world's chillest animal, the
Speaker 1: capy bera, and the world's like most food oriented, least
Speaker 1: chill animal, the pelican, And it is this pelican desperately
Speaker 1: trying to eat this thing, and the cab beerra just
Speaker 1: doesn't care, is like cool man, like you do you
Speaker 1: as this because it knows it's like an immovable lump
Speaker 1: and it cannot be eaten by this bird. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean so the photo that Jason doesn't like is
Speaker 1: a photo of a toad with what looks like a
Speaker 1: worm coming out of its butt. But I have to
Speaker 1: emphasize again this is a snake, not a worm. And
Speaker 1: like there is a helpful diagram with a little arrow
Speaker 1: that points towards part of the snake that got a
Speaker 1: little dented by the toad's cloacal muscles. Yeah, so you
Speaker 1: know it's not very comfortable now. Unfortunately, this snake did
Speaker 1: end up dying seven hours after going on mister Toad's
Speaker 1: wild ride, so I guess it only survived in the
Speaker 1: more technical sense. But this observation shows that it is
Speaker 1: at least possible for these snakes to come out of
Speaker 1: it alive ish, and it is then possible that if
Speaker 1: say the snake is smaller or a little luckier that
Speaker 1: maybe these snakes can make it all the way through
Speaker 1: a toad and be fine. We just don't know how
Speaker 1: often this happens.
Speaker 3: And that does seem to be the two categories of
Speaker 3: example here, whereas this it's like, could be a one
Speaker 3: in a thousand freak accident where I think the other
Speaker 3: one and I could be wrong. But the beetle, I
Speaker 3: think is a case where it more evolved to survive
Speaker 3: this process. And I think the snails too, like they
Speaker 3: that's the case where they have they are built to
Speaker 3: survive it.
Speaker 1: They're actively seeking an escape, whereas I think this snake
Speaker 1: was just kind of maybe trying to get out, but
Speaker 1: also probably very confused. But yes, so this the beetle
Speaker 1: that we're talking about is the Asian water beetle regem
Speaker 1: Barca at Tinuata. This is a small five millimeter big
Speaker 1: black and opalescent dome shape beetle. They're actually quite pretty
Speaker 1: because they have this like sort of obalescence to their shells.
Speaker 1: Researchers found that after being eaten by a frog, the
Speaker 1: beetles can emerge from the frogs but completely intact and
Speaker 1: just scamper off like nothing happened, so the beetle does
Speaker 1: not wait around in the frog for divine intervention like
Speaker 1: Pinocchio and his dad. It is like actively all right,
Speaker 1: like let's go. It swims its way out of the frog.
Speaker 1: But unlike our first animal, the Japanese eel, which made
Speaker 1: its way out of the esophagus and guill slet this
Speaker 1: beetle is like, let's go out the back door. So
Speaker 1: they swim through the rest of the digestive system and
Speaker 1: out of the frog's kloaca, which is the one hole
Speaker 1: that the frog has on its butt. So researchers have
Speaker 1: looked into this and over ninety percent of the beetles
Speaker 1: tested managed to escape the frog through the backflap, and
Speaker 1: it is is thought that this is something that is
Speaker 1: actively happening because it is doing this quickly enough that
Speaker 1: it is not the frog's natural digestion right like it's
Speaker 1: escaping after you know, it's escaping in a number of minutes,
Speaker 1: which is faster than the frog would naturally digest food.
Speaker 1: So it is likely that these beetles are swimming through
Speaker 1: like actively climbing through the frog's digestive system to go
Speaker 1: out of the butt and not not wait around to
Speaker 1: be digested, so they have kind.
Speaker 3: Of it seems like an instinct built in for this situation.
Speaker 3: Because again, I know, we can't comprehend how this works
Speaker 3: in animals, Like what's it like to be motivated to
Speaker 3: do something but without thought? You know, this is just
Speaker 3: what we do in the situation, like cockroach runs away
Speaker 3: from light, that doesn't have a thought.
Speaker 1: It's like a rumba, right, Like it's got a programming
Speaker 1: Like well, when I bonk into a wall, I turn
Speaker 1: around until I don't bonk into it anymore. And that's
Speaker 1: it's like that, but way more sophisticated than a rumba.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I find that really interesting because I like,
Speaker 3: we keep kind of giving human like tendencies to these
Speaker 3: animals and when we describe it, because you talked earlier
Speaker 3: about how there are turtles and other creatures that have
Speaker 3: spikes that have evolved in their system specifically to keep
Speaker 3: things from coming back out right, And of course you're
Speaker 3: imagining getting swallowed whole and then heroically trying to climb
Speaker 3: out and then realizing that this system expected you to
Speaker 3: do that and has built defenses to keep you from
Speaker 3: doing it. But of course they don't have any they
Speaker 3: don't have any thought. This is just a you know,
Speaker 3: this is a battle between predator and prey and trying
Speaker 3: to one of them, trying to not starve to death.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's still the most horrifying thing I can
Speaker 3: think of.
Speaker 1: But you know, these beetles make it work, which I
Speaker 1: think is really admirable, and I like how it's just
Speaker 1: it's really all about efficiency and it's not about pride.
Speaker 1: It's okay for them that they're coming out of the
Speaker 1: butt as long as they make it, and you know,
Speaker 1: they do so good for them.
Speaker 3: And we have in the course of this episode referenced
Speaker 3: multiple stories from pop culture and mythology, because this is
Speaker 3: a common story in our culture of a person getting
Speaker 3: swallowed by some sort of a big creature or a
Speaker 3: big fish. Usually the person is a sinner who who
Speaker 3: has gone wavered and they've gotten swallowed by a big
Speaker 3: creature and then while they're in the belly of the creature,
Speaker 3: they realize something about their lives and need to turn
Speaker 3: their lives around, and then they escape. And of course
Speaker 3: talking about Boba Fett escaping from the sarlac. But it's
Speaker 3: interesting that.
Speaker 1: Is that a thing I don't follow star Wars, so
Speaker 1: I know that like in the original movies, he definitely
Speaker 1: seems like he died.
Speaker 2: Did they like say he escaped.
Speaker 3: Yes, there is an entire on Disney Plus there's an
Speaker 3: entire series around Boba Fat in his life after he
Speaker 3: escaped from the Sarlac and turned his life around after
Speaker 3: being But it is important to note that in the
Speaker 3: story of Jonah and Boba Fat and Pinocchio and all
Speaker 3: of the I'm sure every culture probably has these, they
Speaker 3: never escape from the.
Speaker 2: Butt, right that would be too signified.
Speaker 3: Well, okay, we need to discuss this for the rest
Speaker 3: of the episode because it seems like it seems like
Speaker 3: it's very important in the story of the hero who realizes, Okay,
Speaker 3: I have gotten myself here. To get out, I need
Speaker 3: to be something new when I am reborn. They have
Speaker 3: to make the thing vomit them back up onto the
Speaker 3: beach or whatever. Or is Boba Fet I think used
Speaker 3: maybe like a plasma grenade or something and caused the
Speaker 3: Starlac to cough him up. I don't know the exact story.
Speaker 3: I didn't watch it, but it's extremely important that they
Speaker 3: leave out the front door and not the back and
Speaker 3: I would be fascinated to know if somebody out there, please,
Speaker 3: if there's any listeners who know, if there is mythology
Speaker 3: around a heroic person who was swallowed by a giant
Speaker 3: whale or something and their resolution was they got pooped
Speaker 3: out and survived and then turned their life around.
Speaker 1: Right, write to me at Creature Feature Product gmail dot
Speaker 1: com specifically about that and no other eating and pooping
Speaker 1: related things.
Speaker 3: Again, we are talking about mythology, not something you wrote
Speaker 3: on the internet.
Speaker 1: Can't please don't say like, well, one time I saw
Speaker 1: this art of bugs bunny eating Elmer Fudd.
Speaker 2: And then being pregnant.
Speaker 1: I don't want that, but you know if you want that,
Speaker 1: I'm not judging you, just not for me. Well, before
Speaker 1: we go, we do got a play a little game
Speaker 1: I called Mystery and Sound Game. Every week I play
Speaker 1: Mystery Animal Sound and you the listener and you the guests,
Speaker 1: get to guests who is squawking?
Speaker 2: Who is making that sound? It can be any animal.
Speaker 1: The hint for this week's or for last week animals
Speaker 1: sound is is someone's faucet leaking.
Speaker 2: Or is someone horny? That is what we're looking for.
Speaker 1: That that put that kind of like that sound almost
Speaker 1: sounds like someone hitting a wood block or water droplet.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that definitely to my ears sounds like a noise
Speaker 3: that only a beak can make, so I would I'm
Speaker 3: gonna say that is a puffin. The last bird I
Speaker 3: saw a picture of.
Speaker 1: That's a valiant. Guess it's incorrect, but I love I
Speaker 1: love puffins, So I feel like you get bonus points
Speaker 1: just for mentioning puffins. But congratulations to Emily M who
Speaker 1: guessed correctly that this is the like in bush frog
Speaker 1: aka the water droplet frog. It is found in the
Speaker 1: western Ghats in India. It's called alike in bush frog
Speaker 1: because it is camouflaged.
Speaker 2: To look like lichen and so it is. Uh, I
Speaker 2: enjoy it.
Speaker 1: I like looking at these guys because they are very
Speaker 1: sort of I don't know, it's just like the fact
Speaker 1: that they have that like any skin texture is very
Speaker 1: cool to me. And then yeah, that is the call
Speaker 1: that they make that it sounds like this kind of
Speaker 1: water droplet sound, which is very interesting to me. And
Speaker 1: I couldn't really find like why exactly it is other
Speaker 1: than sort of the typical thing of like they want
Speaker 1: their call to be able to be heard over long distances.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's very cool, little frog. So onto this
Speaker 1: week's mystery animal sound.
Speaker 4: The hint is this, Uh, just just listen to this episode, Jason,
Speaker 4: you got any guesses?
Speaker 3: Oh, I know exactly what it is?
Speaker 2: What is it?
Speaker 3: So I can't. I can't say it. It's going to
Speaker 3: ruin the again.
Speaker 2: It's all right, I'll beat.
Speaker 3: It out, all right. No, I would know the sound
Speaker 3: of some from a mile away.
Speaker 2: That's exactly right.
Speaker 1: Well, if you guys think you know what that is,
Speaker 1: you can write to me at Creature Featurepod at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com. Jason, thank you so much for joining us,
Speaker 1: and tell people where they can buy your new book.
Speaker 1: I'm starting to worry about this black Box of doom personally.
Speaker 3: It's available everywhere in all formats including audio. No, I
Speaker 3: do not read the audiobook. People always ask me that
Speaker 3: they hired a professional. But it's also our hardcover ebook.
Speaker 3: Wherever you buy books except for like, it's not like
Speaker 3: Target or Walmart's I'm not famous. It's it's at bookstores,
Speaker 3: but otherwise Amazon, all the normal places.
Speaker 1: It's at a book store where they sell books.
Speaker 2: Well, that's that's excellent.
Speaker 1: Congrats on your new book, and thank you guys so
Speaker 1: much for listening. If you're enjoying the show, if you
Speaker 1: leave a rating and review, that actually.
Speaker 2: Helps me, Like literally, it's good for me.
Speaker 1: It helps the show in the algorithm, and I feel it,
Speaker 1: and like every time I get like a new rating,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like a power up. My hair grows
Speaker 1: a little longer, my fingernails get a little stronger. Eventually
Speaker 1: I will turn into some kind of like beast creature
Speaker 1: that has like these talents and hair.
Speaker 2: Everywhere.
Speaker 1: But that's a good thing, I think, so keep on
Speaker 1: rating the show. Thank you guys so much for listen.
Speaker 1: Thanks to the space cssics for their super awesome song
Speaker 1: ex So Lumina. Reach Your Features a production of ByHeart Radio.
Speaker 1: For a more podcasts like the one you just heard it,
Speaker 1: listen to iHeartRadio, app Apple podcasts, or hey, I guess
Speaker 1: what wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 2: I don't judge you.
Speaker 1: I can't tell you what to do. I'm not your mother,
Speaker 1: but I will give you this advice.
Speaker 2: Uh, don't swallow eels alive.
Speaker 1: You may not enjoy what happens, and if you do,
Speaker 1: it's not in my business.
Speaker 2: See you next Wednesday.