Speaker 1: Of the law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on. These are our stories, done done.
Speaker 2: Hello, Welcome to another episode of That's Messed Up, an
Speaker 2: SVU podcast.
Speaker 3: I'm Liza Trigger and I'm Kara Klank.
Speaker 2: And every week we talk about an episode of SVU,
Speaker 2: the true crime it is based on, and we have
Speaker 2: a guest from the episode. And in the beginning, we
Speaker 2: just we chick chat, we gossip, we get to we
Speaker 2: pretend we don't talk every other day and text constantly.
Speaker 2: I like that.
Speaker 1: You always have to do like an intro to like
Speaker 1: and now we're going to talk, Kara, let's talk.
Speaker 2: Well, I want to say the word banter, but then
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't want to say the same thing
Speaker 2: every day.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: It just sucks because Tricksy and Katya for on, have
Speaker 2: the best intro of any show that's ever existed.
Speaker 3: Yeah right, we.
Speaker 2: Talk about whatever we want because it's our show and
Speaker 2: not yours. And I think a lot of people need
Speaker 2: to take that to heart forever. It's just like it's
Speaker 2: just the perfect. It's just perfect. They're perfect. We're perfect too.
Speaker 2: Whatever we've had in a very exciting week, Captain Cragan
Speaker 2: cause a sturry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks to everybody for your positive comments about Kragan.
Speaker 1: We were also gooped and gag that we got to
Speaker 1: talk to the Captain himself and it was amazing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and the painting. Obviously, people are going crazy for the painting.
Speaker 1: It's like our most popular Instagram post we've ever boasted.
Speaker 3: Yeah, did I make up a word? Is sturry? A word? Sturry? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I said everyone was in a sturry? But I don't
Speaker 2: think that's a word. I don't think that's a word.
Speaker 2: What's the word about Christmas? Everyone was chill except the
Speaker 2: mice were stirring, stirring, stirring.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but there's no noun of a story, but
Speaker 1: I think there could be one. Let's keep let's keep
Speaker 1: using it. Speaking of a story, there was a big
Speaker 1: story on Twitter this week.
Speaker 2: Well, because I was so involved with Craigan and reading
Speaker 2: everyone's like comments and posts and excitement about it all,
Speaker 2: I was then facetiming one of our friends at night
Speaker 2: and she's like, oh, did you see the Twitter commotion
Speaker 2: about alt right comedy? Like I don't know scandal, and
Speaker 2: I was like, that is crazy how much Craigan took
Speaker 2: me out of this, Like I would be knee deep
Speaker 2: in the comments.
Speaker 1: On any other day, you would have been like the
Speaker 1: top comment on that Twitter feud. And because of Craigan,
Speaker 1: we were just like living in a different world.
Speaker 2: And then our friend messaged me and he goes, oh,
Speaker 2: are you over Twitter fights? Like have you gone past that?
Speaker 2: I go, I was fighting about the Weekend super Bowl performance.
Speaker 3: I didn't even watch it.
Speaker 2: I didn't even see it, and I was just in
Speaker 2: the comments being like, women are better go fuck yourselves.
Speaker 3: He sucks.
Speaker 2: Did not watch it like I might even like it.
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, I loved I don't love to fight
Speaker 2: on Twitter.
Speaker 3: I didn't really watch it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I like his music, but I think the
Speaker 1: thing with the Weekend is his voice is great and
Speaker 1: he has great music. He could almost be like a
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson style perform, but he can't dance, so like
Speaker 1: to watch him perform is kind of boring. It is,
Speaker 1: you know, so to pick him for the super Bowl
Speaker 1: it is kind of weird. So Joe Kimboostar our friend.
Speaker 2: He has an amazing game where he plays actress or
Speaker 2: movie star, and you go through famous people and you
Speaker 2: decide if they're just an actress or a fucking movie star.
Speaker 2: And I think that can translate into are you a
Speaker 2: singer or are you a fucking entertainer?
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And anyone that argued with me, they're like, oh, mensuck,
Speaker 2: what about Prince? I'm like, oh, you mean the greatest
Speaker 2: of all time? Yeah, you're proving my point. You're proving
Speaker 2: my point if your example is one of the greatest
Speaker 2: musicians that has ever graced us.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I'm right. Yeah, and the exception is
Speaker 3: not the rule.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just you know, give me a firework, give
Speaker 2: me a belly shirt, give me a costume, change anything.
Speaker 1: I just like, I thought for sure someone else was
Speaker 1: coming out. I go, someone else is joining in a second,
Speaker 1: freaking lu Alipa's going to be out there, like and
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe it that it was just him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I didn't pay attention to anything. I was
Speaker 2: moving from a family friend's condo into an airbnb, and
Speaker 2: I was having mental breakdowns for days.
Speaker 3: I was fully not able to handle the stress.
Speaker 2: And also it was too cold to do steps, so
Speaker 2: I walked in circles in the parking garage, but I
Speaker 2: was listening to podcasts about a meth addict sneaking into
Speaker 2: someone's home and stabbing everyone in the family.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, why am I doing this to myself?
Speaker 2: Just alone in a parking garage in Loops, listening to
Speaker 2: a surprise stabbing, Like I don't I don't know what
Speaker 2: was wrong with me, but I couldn't stop.
Speaker 1: You are a glutton for punishment. That's really psycho. It
Speaker 1: is very psycho. But yeah, what do you think about
Speaker 1: the alt right community?
Speaker 3: No big fan, No, uh no.
Speaker 1: I think it's sad because you know, I came up
Speaker 1: in New York comedy, and I think it's sad that
Speaker 1: this alt right sort of cloud has sort of infested
Speaker 1: New York. You know, I really hope that that's not
Speaker 1: the case, fully, But.
Speaker 2: It's also funny to have the article come out now
Speaker 2: and nobody is doing comedy except for the deniers, you know,
Speaker 2: just like I go.
Speaker 3: It's like this is a huge problem.
Speaker 1: It's like, Okay, we'll fix it as soon as comedy
Speaker 1: comes back.
Speaker 3: Like I don't understand. Yeah, no one's doing stand up
Speaker 3: right now, no one at all. It is pretty wild.
Speaker 1: Except I keep hearing about bad clubs that are letting
Speaker 1: people do indoor shows and mics and stuff.
Speaker 3: I'm like, what a mic? Not worth it?
Speaker 2: Well, And you know, we joke about this a lot personally,
Speaker 2: but like when you see the people that are touring,
Speaker 2: you're like, that would You're gonna risk death for this.
Speaker 3: Guy, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: And a lot of people were You're like, oh, you
Speaker 1: would never be playing these venues if it was normal
Speaker 1: times either, Like COVID is your biggest career boost, which
Speaker 1: is like.
Speaker 3: Kind of sad. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm not naming names. One of the people is a
Speaker 2: great friend of mine. It's really hard. I don't know,
Speaker 2: Like the judgment's hard because like, for sometimes I'll see
Speaker 2: people breaking COVID shit and I'm like, you're the worst
Speaker 2: person in the world. And then a friend is going
Speaker 2: to Mexico and I'm like, listen, you deserve it.
Speaker 3: You've gone enough.
Speaker 1: So I'm a hypocrite on the way. I like forgive
Speaker 1: people all the time. No, I feel like I have
Speaker 1: some friends where I think our friendship is going to
Speaker 1: be changed because of their COVID behavior. Really yeah, Like
Speaker 1: I feel like I can't ignore how bad some people
Speaker 1: were during COVID, Like while the rest of us were
Speaker 1: stuck inside sacrificing, they were just living life that pisses
Speaker 1: me off.
Speaker 2: And they convinced themselves that they're not bad too. I
Speaker 2: feel that's the thing because I do follow one superstar,
Speaker 2: porn star Abella Danger, and she's wilding out but she
Speaker 2: gets tested twice a week. But she on her story goes, listen,
Speaker 2: I'm reckless. I'm not behaving well, but at least I
Speaker 2: get tested. And I was like, that's at least better.
Speaker 2: I kind of liked it. I respected it. I don't
Speaker 2: mean to put her on blast. I mean, she's very popular,
Speaker 2: but yeah, she's clubbing and flying and stuff, but she
Speaker 2: is getting tested multiple times a week.
Speaker 1: I just like that she admits that she's reckless. Yeah no, yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure.
Speaker 2: I also, this is kind of a bummer, but I
Speaker 2: do want to mention it.
Speaker 3: It's not a bummer.
Speaker 2: But I listened to a podcast that Karen and Georgia
Speaker 2: highlighted called This Is Actually Happening, and I listened to
Speaker 2: an episode that I think maybe you guys would enjoy,
Speaker 2: and it was about Amita Swadin. She was a victim
Speaker 2: of incest. But she's just like an amazing speaker. But
Speaker 2: she highlighted things that we try to highlight in this
Speaker 2: show about like the system failing and how hard it
Speaker 2: is for victims, and she just like, I don't know,
Speaker 2: she it was just really well done. And she brought
Speaker 2: up one point that she was thirteen years old. She
Speaker 2: had been raped by her father from age four, and
Speaker 2: she was an interrogation and like the cop was trying
Speaker 2: to get info from her, and this was a lot
Speaker 2: for her and she started to cry and the cop said, listen,
Speaker 2: you're gonna need a lot of therapy. But I'm not
Speaker 2: a social worker. I'm a cop and I'm just here
Speaker 2: for the facts. And I just was shocked. And it's
Speaker 2: kind of things that we try to highlight. But it
Speaker 2: was whild just hearing her talk about that to her experience,
Speaker 2: she's a thirteen year old, like rape survivor crying and
Speaker 2: that's what an authority person told her, and she Another
Speaker 2: thing I don't think about enough is like how coping
Speaker 2: mechanisms from those things can be destructive, and yet we
Speaker 2: judge teens and people for having these destructive behaviors, but
Speaker 2: not without thinking about why.
Speaker 3: They are doing these things.
Speaker 2: We judge like promiscuous teens or people that you know,
Speaker 2: self harm or get into drugs, but we don't think
Speaker 2: about what happened to them and what they're coping from.
Speaker 3: And this ties into the true crime today, actually, doesn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, it's a very smooth save Kara from
Speaker 2: my depressing fucking I'm.
Speaker 3: Not trying to see that.
Speaker 1: No, this podcast sounds really great and I would love
Speaker 1: to listen to it, and I think, honestly, you should
Speaker 1: maybe switch over to that podcast instead of a funk
Speaker 1: about addict.
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, yes, for when you're doing garage steps,
Speaker 3: I think let's switch to something a little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And she's a.
Speaker 2: Badass and she's been working for victims in the government
Speaker 2: for over twenty years and went to Georgetown and I
Speaker 2: followed her on Instagram and stuff. But I was just
Speaker 2: very interested since we try to talk about these things
Speaker 2: and then having someone talk about it.
Speaker 1: No, that's awesome, that's a great that's a great shout out.
Speaker 1: And then February continues, it's Black History month.
Speaker 3: Lisa, I think you have a few more res.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but one that you're going to be really excited
Speaker 2: about so in thrilling news. I don't think she needs
Speaker 2: any promo, but Heiding Closet had a song that came
Speaker 2: out yesterday which is thrilling for me.
Speaker 1: That is the soft and supple miscongeniality from season twelve
Speaker 1: of RuPaul's Drag Race.
Speaker 3: For those of you that don't know get into drag music.
Speaker 1: It is so fun, especially if you're doing steps, walking,
Speaker 1: doing anything where you just want to feel uplifted.
Speaker 3: Drag music is really really fun. All the queens have
Speaker 3: great music. Oh it sure is. Yeah.
Speaker 2: For Black History Month, I wanted to shout out some
Speaker 2: fun comedy specials on Netflix that I enjoyed.
Speaker 1: Oh great, Yeah, Michelle BUTEU, Oh my gosh, everything Michelle does.
Speaker 1: Also her book Survival of the Thickest Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then Sam Jay was my favorite special of the year.
Speaker 2: I thought it was great. It was called three in
Speaker 2: the Morning and it made me laugh a lot. And
Speaker 2: then this person doesn't need anything, but Wanda Psykes special
Speaker 2: is so good.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 3: I mean, she's like a legend, but I.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is happy to help out these upstart comics.
Speaker 1: Wanda Psychs everybody that's s y k yes.
Speaker 3: And I'm really excited.
Speaker 2: I don't. I'm not really a reader, but I did
Speaker 2: buy Rock San Gay's book Bad Feminist, and I'm really
Speaker 2: hoping that.
Speaker 3: I will read. Yes, Liza, get into it because I
Speaker 3: love her on Twitter. You can do it.
Speaker 2: She has enemies, she loves housewives like she is my favorite.
Speaker 3: Oh she does. I know, that's right. I know her
Speaker 3: a lot from uh, from when she's been on Bitch
Speaker 3: Sesshion and stuff. I love her.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, now let's jump into our episode. Let's get
Speaker 1: into me. All right, let's dive into episode ode seventeen
Speaker 1: of season five. So we've clipped right along to season
Speaker 1: five of the show and we're heading towards the exits
Speaker 1: with episode seventeen. All right, So we start with the
Speaker 1: discovery of the body, which is like kind of a
Speaker 1: funny man and a woman who are trying to tow
Speaker 1: the car and they're having a little bit of like
Speaker 1: funny banter with each other, which is how these people
Speaker 1: get good material for their reels. And they see blood
Speaker 1: coming from like the trunk of this car that they're
Speaker 1: in the process of being a respect and it's like
Speaker 1: it's like it's like a blood slushy because it's freezing
Speaker 1: out and snowy, so there's like all this slushy blood
Speaker 1: coming out.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine New York City toe people noticing caring, yeah,
Speaker 2: being like.
Speaker 3: Oh blood anyway, moving on.
Speaker 2: And they had patches on their outfits, and I didn't
Speaker 2: realize tow truck people like it was like a patches
Speaker 2: official thing.
Speaker 3: It looked like a bout.
Speaker 1: They could have been from, like the transportation of the
Speaker 1: city that tows people, though, like not like a private
Speaker 1: toe company.
Speaker 3: God, its yeah, that does exist. Yeah, I think that exists.
Speaker 1: So when the cops get there, they find in the
Speaker 1: trunk of the car a female with no idea or
Speaker 1: clothing on. She's had her throat slashed, but she's also
Speaker 1: covered in like one hundred tiny small cuts. Everything is
Speaker 1: pre mortem, and it seems like most of it took
Speaker 1: place actually in the trunk and then she bled out
Speaker 1: before she froze to death. But it took four hours,
Speaker 1: so it's like not cigarette burns. Yeah, it's like an
Speaker 1: absolutely horrible, brutal way to die. And they get a
Speaker 1: missing person's report from Westchester County Front that the car
Speaker 1: is registered to Greg Sullivan and he's the one that
Speaker 1: called in the reports, so we're getting the picture that
Speaker 1: this is his daughter. So we were now speaking to
Speaker 1: Gregory Sullivan, the father of Emily, the girl who was
Speaker 1: found in the.
Speaker 3: Car, and he just looks like any Yeah, he just
Speaker 3: looks like a sad dad.
Speaker 1: He's like, she told me she was sleeping at her
Speaker 1: friend's house, Andrea kent. I left a message for her
Speaker 1: on the answering machine and she called back fifteen minutes later,
Speaker 1: so like, I knew she was at this house. But
Speaker 1: then they're realizing that she was probably never at the house.
Speaker 1: And they interview Andrea's mom and she's like, slept over
Speaker 1: on a school night, not a chance.
Speaker 2: Like she's like, well, they also let her know that
Speaker 2: this girl is dead, and she goes, oh, my daughter
Speaker 2: will be upset. Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is your daughter's friend.
Speaker 2: She's been in your home. I'm sure you've gone out
Speaker 2: to dinner together.
Speaker 1: Any teenager dying in your community, it's like, even if
Speaker 1: you don't know the person, you're like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: what a tragedy.
Speaker 3: That's horrible, Like this cooldness, because I know that's part
Speaker 3: of that.
Speaker 2: Part of it is on is like people don't care,
Speaker 2: you know, they kept doing their bartending work. But this
Speaker 2: is someone that's been in your home and she's like,
Speaker 2: I'm rushing to work. I have to go to work,
Speaker 2: talk to my daughter. And it's like you're just sending
Speaker 2: the police to talk to What the fuck lady? Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's wonder. I'm not to ruin it in no wonder.
Speaker 2: Your daughters are fucking lunatics.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's like these people are always rushing around
Speaker 1: and it's wants to go to work.
Speaker 3: Yeah, why who's rushing to get to work? You know
Speaker 3: what you can tell them when you get to work. Hey,
Speaker 3: I was talking to the cops. It's a pretty good excuse,
Speaker 3: and I want to see I would extend.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to say most people, even though talking
Speaker 1: to the cops is not great, but if you're not
Speaker 1: the one that's being interrogated, if you're just literally being
Speaker 1: asked for like side information, I think that's probably kind
Speaker 1: of an exciting part of your day. And these people
Speaker 1: are like, I gotta go to work, like it just
Speaker 1: doesn't really know.
Speaker 2: I was the FBI called me because of some Twitter
Speaker 2: drama and I was thrown to answer their questions and
Speaker 2: another quar your schedule for the FBI yeah, but I
Speaker 2: was still sassy to him.
Speaker 3: He's like, where do you live.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm not telling you, and it's like it's
Speaker 2: the f by But yeah, they found my phone number.
Speaker 2: I'm sure they can figure out where I'm located. Another time,
Speaker 2: I was excited not talking to a police officer, but
Speaker 2: I got to do jury duty. Yeah, at the time
Speaker 2: of my life, I was picked. I got to sit
Speaker 2: in the jury box. I made everyone laugh a couple
Speaker 2: of times. I asked answered questions yeah and was. I mean,
Speaker 2: I loved it.
Speaker 1: Look, I understand why being interrogated by the cops. Are
Speaker 1: being arrested for no reason.
Speaker 3: It's bad.
Speaker 1: But like if the cops came to me and were like, hey,
Speaker 1: I just need a little bit of information about your
Speaker 1: friend Lisa, I'd be like, let's talk.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like one time I worked at a Harislon and across
Speaker 2: the street on like half price appetize, someone stabs someone
Speaker 2: in the neck with a fork in the street. Of course,
Speaker 2: the cops came. They wanted our surveillance footage, and I
Speaker 2: was trying to get the school. I wanted to know
Speaker 2: what was happening. I understand if you're being hounded by
Speaker 2: the police because you're a person of color and you're
Speaker 2: living in a neighborhood that they over police and you're
Speaker 2: just like, fuck the police. But if you're some bitch
Speaker 2: and Long Island, this should be a once in a
Speaker 2: lifetime thing and you should give.
Speaker 3: A little bit more. Allison. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: So, now we're at the school. I believe it's called
Speaker 1: Tanner Day. It's clearly like a private school.
Speaker 3: And the principle is a used car salesman.
Speaker 1: The principle was that, after I've seen in tons of
Speaker 1: other stuff, he looks like he pays women to step
Speaker 1: on his balls and like squeeze them and piss in
Speaker 1: his mouth.
Speaker 3: For sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he seems like that type. So he basically says
Speaker 1: Emily was well liked, friends with everyone. She was on
Speaker 1: the homecoming court, a shining star. I just want to
Speaker 1: point out I was on the homecoming court. It's like
Speaker 1: a huge part of my life.
Speaker 3: I'm just kidding. I don't know why it was. It
Speaker 3: was kind of a fluke.
Speaker 2: Anyway, It's good that I wasn't because I'd still be
Speaker 2: talking about it.
Speaker 3: Sure, I would love it. The way that we found
Speaker 3: out who was a homecoming queen too, is they gave
Speaker 3: you all a wrapped flower and then we opened it
Speaker 3: at the pep rally and like, if you had the
Speaker 3: red flower, you were.
Speaker 1: The homecoming queen. Wow, And I had a white flower.
Speaker 1: It wasn't me anyway. I was homecoming queen. Thank you
Speaker 1: you are our producer was homecoming Queen Hannah. I can
Speaker 1: sort of tell that. I feel like you'd have a
Speaker 1: good wave. Okay. So at the school we finally we
Speaker 1: meet Emily's best friends. This is like her little group
Speaker 1: of girls. So there's Page Summerbee who's in a cheer
Speaker 1: litter outfit with wispy bangs, with wispy bangs, Britney O'Malley
Speaker 1: who is got like super super overdyed blonde hair, and
Speaker 1: then Andrea Kent who uses self tanner for sure and
Speaker 1: she's from John Tucker must die. Yeah, they say blonde.
Speaker 1: And then the brunette is murdered and that.
Speaker 3: Is upsetting too. Yeah.
Speaker 1: They say they don't know the number that Emily's dad called,
Speaker 1: so Stabler completely calls their bluff, runs over to a
Speaker 1: calls it. Britney's cell phone starts ringing and she's like,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Emily asked me to do it.
Speaker 3: Well it's even smarter than that.
Speaker 1: Just her cell phone rings, her cell phone herself, and
Speaker 1: my voicemail has been changed to say like you've reached
Speaker 1: the Kent family.
Speaker 3: Like, so they've fully set it up and I feel
Speaker 3: as though.
Speaker 2: But also it's like, you know, Stabler's about to do
Speaker 2: a police trick. Why not just confess before you get embarrassed.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is for cinematic value than you. But
Speaker 2: these girls just sitting there waiting to be.
Speaker 1: Going yeah, and it's like, okay, okay, okay, okay, it's
Speaker 1: my phone, it's my phone, and.
Speaker 3: Who are these the balls on these scenes to lie
Speaker 3: to the cops?
Speaker 1: I know, Well we find out why, I think later. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's true and again great acting. Yes, so these girls
Speaker 1: say that like they helped Emily because she was supposed
Speaker 1: to go have a big romantic date with this guy
Speaker 1: who's twenty three. Okay, Meanwhile, I just want to check
Speaker 1: in on Benson's hair. Her bob has like grown out.
Speaker 1: It's like a sort of a long bob, perfectly highlighted.
Speaker 1: And she needs the combination of Emily's locker.
Speaker 3: So in Emily's locker they find a signed headshot from
Speaker 3: a guy named Lucas. I'm like, what is she a
Speaker 3: dry cleaner? Why is she have headshots of people?
Speaker 2: Then what's also funny is Benson goes, what is he
Speaker 2: an actor?
Speaker 3: Yes? Great?
Speaker 1: When you say a headshot with a name on it, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's yeah. So they go to the park to talk
Speaker 1: to him. He's in some kind of like veggie tails
Speaker 1: group where they're all dressed up like fruit and they're
Speaker 1: singing in the park on a rainy day. It looks
Speaker 1: like the saddest job you have to do to make money.
Speaker 1: As again, another s few things. So he's dressed as
Speaker 1: the grapes, so they will grape and they go, we
Speaker 1: got to talk to the grapes.
Speaker 3: But what's wild again?
Speaker 2: Where it's like why if I was on a set
Speaker 2: and the police came to talk to someone, I'd be
Speaker 2: trying to listen. Yeah, the other fruits just kept dancing,
Speaker 2: and also how are you going to get the shot
Speaker 2: without the grape? For Conna Newt, it was just like,
Speaker 2: I don't know why the director can go take five fruits, Like, I.
Speaker 3: Don't understand why they kept dancing.
Speaker 1: Well, edit the grapes back in in posts. Yeah, so okay,
Speaker 1: that's funny.
Speaker 3: I never really thought about all of the logistics of it.
Speaker 1: But Lisa, that's good, good work, thank you. So the
Speaker 1: Grapes is this guy named Lucas. He said he didn't
Speaker 1: know Emily was sixteen. When he found out, he broke
Speaker 1: it off. Stabler tells us Little Fruits Alibi checked out.
Speaker 1: So the fruit guy is.
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, he said he was on a movie set. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the fruit guy, we think is not part of
Speaker 1: it any longer. Don't don't hold on. Emily's phone just
Speaker 1: made a call. They track it to this guy who
Speaker 1: is at a comic book shop talking to a phone
Speaker 1: sex operator about Kathleen Turner and how she was really
Speaker 1: hot when she was thin. I don't know what's going on,
Speaker 1: but that sounds like the kind of guy who would
Speaker 1: have attended Cosmic Con Grand Rapids. The other kind of
Speaker 1: person who would have attended Cosmiccon Grand Rapids my husband,
Speaker 1: you know, if that existed, he'd be there. This guy
Speaker 1: was just like a nerd. He's like, I was at
Speaker 1: this comic con thing and I just found this phone
Speaker 1: on the street. They get her phone open, they check
Speaker 1: all these text messages, and they see that Emily was
Speaker 1: actually sending pages and pages and tons and tons of horrible, threatening,
Speaker 1: mean texts. They find out out who they're too, a
Speaker 1: girl named Agnes Lynskey. They go to her house, and
Speaker 1: you know, the name Agnes is just yeah, you're not
Speaker 1: gonna beet like the head cheerleader at the house. It's
Speaker 1: not arresting someone in Magnus Linsky.
Speaker 2: Sorry to bring it back to the Simpsons, but it
Speaker 2: means lamb of god, oh Agnes, it does.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So Agnes's father is like, I'm not sorry, she's dead.
Speaker 1: So you get the feeling that Agnes and Emily have
Speaker 1: like a long history of bullying.
Speaker 3: Well Eve.
Speaker 2: The dad is like mad that Benson doesn't know the
Speaker 2: inner politics of high school. He's like, you know, damn well,
Speaker 2: that bitch isn't friends with my daughter.
Speaker 3: And it's like, no, she doesn't. She's a cop, she's
Speaker 3: not like a social studies teacher.
Speaker 1: So the principal pulls Agnes out of class and she
Speaker 1: she does say she's like the principal just kisses all
Speaker 1: those girls asses, And I say that, I will say
Speaker 1: that does happen, Like I think that like principals and
Speaker 1: teachers definitely get as seduced by popular girls as like
Speaker 1: the rest of the kids, do, you know, like they
Speaker 1: don't really see. They're like, she seems like a lovely girl.
Speaker 1: They don't see like the horrible shit they're doing behind
Speaker 1: the scenes.
Speaker 2: I hate the mentality of like, you know, strengthen out
Speaker 2: take the bully.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's like just punish the bullies. So Benson
Speaker 3: kind of has this nice heart to heart with Agnes
Speaker 3: where she tells her that she stayed to herself in school,
Speaker 3: like you have to imagine like a devastatingly beautiful young
Speaker 3: Mushca Hargetage.
Speaker 1: Just sitting alone at lunch because she doesn't want anyone
Speaker 1: to know her mom's an alcoholic.
Speaker 3: But yeah, no, Agnes is not having it.
Speaker 1: She's sure okay, Olivia. So basically we find out Emily's
Speaker 1: been doing all this horrible shit, like started a rumor
Speaker 1: about Agnes when her mom died that said her mom
Speaker 1: left because she was so ugly. I mean, that's like
Speaker 1: just a disgusting Sometimes when I watch these shows, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't think kids can be this cruel, Like on
Speaker 1: Thirteen Reasons Why, they're all like you got raped, loser,
Speaker 1: Like it's like I don't think kids are that bad,
Speaker 1: but maybe I'm just naive and my child's not in
Speaker 1: high school yet. No, you're not.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't know.
Speaker 1: When I was in school, no one ever slapped books
Speaker 1: out of people's hands, never like slushied people. Like there's
Speaker 1: all this mean shit into these shows. You egged in
Speaker 1: school and my cinder costume outside not in school. But
Speaker 1: I got egged on Halloween. Oh so that's pranky.
Speaker 3: It's not like Lisa sucks and we had egg in
Speaker 3: the hallway. I don't know, it just seems different.
Speaker 2: One boy stole my yearbook and drew all these dicks
Speaker 2: in it and drew like dicks on my face, and
Speaker 2: I told on him and he had to buy me
Speaker 2: a new yearbook and then everyone was pissed.
Speaker 3: But I'm like, I want my yearbook.
Speaker 1: My mom's going to be sad that I have a
Speaker 1: sharpie dick on my face. Well, I'm not saying kids
Speaker 1: are not super cool with words. I guess I mean
Speaker 1: more the physical. Like I never thought kids were getting
Speaker 1: like beat up when I was in school, But that
Speaker 1: could have just been my school beat up or.
Speaker 3: Like physically harassed anyway we find out, Emily.
Speaker 2: Maybe I just keep thinking of more and more stories
Speaker 2: for my high school being like where did I go
Speaker 2: to school? Because one time this cousin of someone came
Speaker 2: in and then found this girl, but found the wrong
Speaker 2: girl to beat up, wrapped her hair around her head
Speaker 2: and smashed kept smashing her face into the ground over
Speaker 2: and over again, and the girl was never the same,
Speaker 2: sin like truly. And then another girl in junior high
Speaker 2: someone threw a brick at her head again, never the
Speaker 2: same after that.
Speaker 3: So shit was going down in Skochy.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I went to school in Connecticut. We didn't have that.
Speaker 3: That seems worse, Like I said, no physical stuff.
Speaker 2: And in GBN the one of the other high schoolsy
Speaker 2: had a great swim team, they had intern like they
Speaker 2: had national news because of their hazing, and there's like
Speaker 2: pig shit and a girl sprained her ankle in the
Speaker 2: woods and it was just I think something was going.
Speaker 3: On in the north Shore and I'm I don't know,
Speaker 3: you need to talk to someone about it. You've not
Speaker 3: processed it pro I mean, I wish I didn't get egged.
Speaker 3: It was like a cute outfit, but whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so back to this episode, Agnes is basically.
Speaker 3: Like we were all friends when we were little.
Speaker 1: I don't really know why things changed, and it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: things changed because of like hormones and kids becoming assholes.
Speaker 1: Emily catfished Agnes as a boy she liked texted or
Speaker 1: like kill herself, like texted her all this horrible stuff.
Speaker 1: So she was like, the other girls are mean too,
Speaker 1: but I was Emily's special project. And she's just saying, like,
Speaker 1: you know, it really bears down on you. You don't
Speaker 1: want to get out of bed in the morning, and
Speaker 1: she says she's happy she's dead. Agnes says she was
Speaker 1: home alone when the when the attack happens, so even
Speaker 1: though she's like a prime suspect, but Benson doesn't think
Speaker 1: she did it. And the school knew what was happening
Speaker 1: with all this bullying and did nothing. So then they
Speaker 1: get this call that Brittany O'Malley was attacked at school.
Speaker 1: So Brittany's the overded blonde one and Troy, Agnes's brother,
Speaker 1: is the one who did it. He said he only
Speaker 1: pushed her. And you might recognize Troy from the Sopranos.
Speaker 3: Oh is that he was the kid?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Oh, and you know he's a bad boy because he
Speaker 2: has a diamond.
Speaker 1: Earring, Yeah, he doesn't give a fuck.
Speaker 3: He'll push a girl.
Speaker 1: So he basically says it was an accident. And the
Speaker 1: reason he did it is because Brittany took pictures of
Speaker 1: Agnes changing in the locker room and sent them around.
Speaker 1: Now we know from SVU that that kind of counts
Speaker 1: as as child pornography, but Agnes is eighteen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they handle that so seemingly because I wanted
Speaker 2: to say too, like oh, and then I was like no, no,
Speaker 2: I mentioned they mentioned she's eighteen.
Speaker 3: You're right, you're right. So the kid, the younger brother,
Speaker 3: is like, nobody's protecting my sister. The school's not.
Speaker 1: The cops aren't, like she illegally disseminated nude photos, Like
Speaker 1: what are you going to do about that?
Speaker 3: So they go to talk.
Speaker 1: To Brittany at the hospital where she's recovering from what
Speaker 1: looks like a scratch on her forehead from this major attack,
Speaker 1: and her mom is like, these kids were nothing but
Speaker 1: nice to that girl, and look what they get for it,
Speaker 1: Like this is just a total in denial mom. And
Speaker 1: Brittany's like, shut up, mom, go get the plastic sergeant,
Speaker 1: and like she talks to her mom, that's a red
Speaker 1: flag right there of someone who's like a sociopath. Is like,
Speaker 1: when you can just tell your mom to shut the
Speaker 1: fuck up and she listens to you like, I'm sure
Speaker 1: I've screamed shut up at my mom.
Speaker 2: Well that's all fine, But how is the mom like
Speaker 2: still defending the daughter as she's screaming, shut the fuck up,
Speaker 2: Go get the plastic surgeon, like you dumb bitch. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And she's like, my daughter is so nice, how dare
Speaker 2: you right? Like, I don't understand these dumb pair. I
Speaker 2: don't get it.
Speaker 1: So then they show Brittany the photos on the flip
Speaker 1: phone that she took and all these like this is
Speaker 1: a classic episode from the two thousands, and the flip
Speaker 1: phones are really taking me back.
Speaker 3: I had such a good flip phone.
Speaker 1: It was so sleek and shiny and it flipped and
Speaker 1: I loved to a razor. No, it was an imitation
Speaker 1: razor from like Samsung or something.
Speaker 3: I was a Nokia girl. Oh, I had a Nokia
Speaker 3: when I loved abroad. I love snake Anyway.
Speaker 1: She said she took the picture of Agnes naked in
Speaker 1: the gym to get back at her for killing Emily.
Speaker 3: So she's like trying to and did this whole act.
Speaker 3: So we find out from the medical examiner that there.
Speaker 1: Was nail polish in the wound, so the killer was
Speaker 1: probably a female. And then they say or a metrosexual
Speaker 1: that Stabler says that, I think you're not allowed to
Speaker 1: say metrosexual anymore, So clearly a relic of an episode.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just funny what metrosexual was because it just
Speaker 2: meant like men that bathed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was like it's like, oh, do you use
Speaker 3: your hair?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then they find a hair in the duct
Speaker 1: tape that's color treated super blonde, so that's like kind
Speaker 1: of leading them back to this group of girls.
Speaker 3: Do you know any bottle blondes? And yeah, we know
Speaker 3: a few.
Speaker 1: So Huang is there explaining relational aggression and it's how
Speaker 1: boys are socialized to show their anger and girls are
Speaker 1: socialized to be nice. So that's a little bit how
Speaker 1: these these little clicks show up.
Speaker 2: And I love hims like little tidbits like that was
Speaker 2: really insightful to me because you know, there are those
Speaker 2: rumors of like girls are so much meaner than boys,
Speaker 2: and you know, teen girls are the worst, They're the
Speaker 2: most vicious, and it's it's nice to.
Speaker 3: Have a little bit of reasoning why.
Speaker 1: Women do fight the way they fight and and you know, right,
Speaker 1: so they're basically talking about how like, instead of telling
Speaker 1: you what you did wrong that I don't like because
Speaker 1: that's not nice, you just ice someone out and get
Speaker 1: everyone else to turn against her too.
Speaker 3: Which girls definitely do that stuff.
Speaker 2: All they're passive aggressive and boys are you know, aggressive depressive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so stablers like these little clicks are like the mafia.
Speaker 1: Nobody knows nothing, so uh, they go talk to us. No,
Speaker 1: but this is my favorite.
Speaker 2: And then Benson the Cop of the Year award goes Actually,
Speaker 2: I saw a sign for peer councilors while I was
Speaker 2: at the school.
Speaker 3: Let's go talk to them. We didn't have this at
Speaker 3: my school.
Speaker 1: Those are just like other students that like help students
Speaker 1: with their problems.
Speaker 2: I think this is a TV trope because this happens
Speaker 2: in Daria. I've never heard of a pier counsel.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So they go and talk to this girl and she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: these girls are She's like, I like them fine, but
Speaker 1: they're mean. So then we have this really sweet conversation
Speaker 1: with Terry, Emily's neighbor. Now this reminds me exactly of
Speaker 1: Heather's because this is like Betty Finn in Heathers or
Speaker 1: she takes a friend. Yeah, she's her friend from at home.
Speaker 1: They were friends when they were little and like their
Speaker 1: only friends, like sort of outside of school. And she
Speaker 1: said that Emily was really like starting to talk about college,
Speaker 1: pull away from these mean girls.
Speaker 3: She was like into meeting new people.
Speaker 1: And she admits that she really didn't like Britney and
Speaker 1: that Emily hooked up with Brittany's boyfriend, Lucas The Grapes. Okay,
Speaker 1: so The Grapes is back into the episode. We get
Speaker 1: to Lucas's apartment. He is a struggling actor dressing up
Speaker 1: as grapes in the middle of Central Park to make money,
Speaker 1: and he's got a massive apartment with no roommates. I mean,
Speaker 1: you guys want to talk about the friends apartment being unrealistic,
Speaker 1: Let's get into some of these SVU apartments.
Speaker 2: Well, we know about most people in the entertainment business,
Speaker 2: rich parents. That's true, Papa could be paying. Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 3: That's true.
Speaker 1: Brittany apparently asked Lucas to hit on Emily as a
Speaker 1: friendship test, but Emily was into it, and then lucasays,
Speaker 1: Brittany freaked out and is a total psycho and he
Speaker 1: thinks that Brittany poisoned his cat buttons rip buttons. He
Speaker 1: basically said that the girls called him that night, Britney
Speaker 1: called them and I said, we're coming by the set,
Speaker 1: have a case of beer ready, And then when he
Speaker 1: tried to put the case of beer in the trunk,
Speaker 1: they all freaked out. So this is getting sketchier and sketchier.
Speaker 1: They arrest these girls at the pep rally.
Speaker 2: I also am mad that they have not arrested this
Speaker 2: guy for fucking a harum of teams.
Speaker 3: I'm buying beer for teams. Yeah, they have not. Lucas
Speaker 3: gets off scott free and.
Speaker 2: The whole thing of like, but she looked older, Like,
Speaker 2: I just he's everything I hate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he should have been arrested for statutory grape Oh okay, sorry,
Speaker 1: he's the grapes.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: So they arrest these girls the pep rally. They first
Speaker 1: get the cheerleader and then they pull the other two
Speaker 1: girls out of the stand. It's kind of amazing. I
Speaker 1: love I love popular girls getting like severely embarrassed by
Speaker 1: getting arrested at school, and then Agnes looks pumped as
Speaker 1: they're leaving.
Speaker 3: She's like so exciting.
Speaker 2: Mug.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they question all the girls separately. They kind of
Speaker 1: bop around to each one of them. And honestly, the
Speaker 1: girl that plays Paige has like two lines. I think
Speaker 1: she's not getting paid as much as the other actresses.
Speaker 1: They just don't have her say much. I think she's
Speaker 1: an under five. But they talk about how they asked
Speaker 1: Emily to go out that night it was Andrea's birthday.
Speaker 1: They wanted to go out for the night and have
Speaker 1: some fun, but they also wanted to confront her about
Speaker 1: being a bad friend, because you don't date friends boyfriends
Speaker 1: or hit on their ex boyfriends or whatever the deal is.
Speaker 3: And Brittany's like, it was a joke.
Speaker 1: We tied her up and in the duct tape, but
Speaker 1: somebody else is the one that killed her. Okay, Like
Speaker 1: all right, that's like you're really pushing it. So they
Speaker 1: so they say she needed to know you can't do
Speaker 1: whatever you want. There are rules. You can't steal someone's boyfriend.
Speaker 1: So that's why they were basically gonna bind her and
Speaker 1: freak her out. Like she's naked in the back of
Speaker 1: a car in the middle of winter. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: not how you teach a friend that there are rules.
Speaker 1: So Novak lays down the lawn and says, no one's
Speaker 1: going to buy your bullshit. And then Andrea and Paige
Speaker 1: kind of flip on Brittany immediately, like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, immediately, you murdered somebody.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So the other two girls are basically like, Brittany
Speaker 1: went psycho, and I can buy that Brittany maybe had
Speaker 1: cuticle scissors on her, but then they say and then
Speaker 1: she pulled out a knife. I'm like, she just had
Speaker 1: a knife on her, Like, okay, she's just carrying one around.
Speaker 1: And then Brittany tells her mom to shut the hell
Speaker 1: up again, and then she goes off in interrogation when
Speaker 1: she finds out that her two friends have flipped on her.
Speaker 2: So then they and the defense attorney they have is
Speaker 2: the oil tycoon Richard gear type.
Speaker 1: Brittany has an oil tycoon type lawyer. The lawyer for
Speaker 1: the other girls are Judy King. Judy came from Orange's
Speaker 1: New Black, and then the other guy that we just
Speaker 1: talked about on another The actor's name is ned Eisenberg,
Speaker 1: and I'm forgetting what the guy. Oh, I'm forgetting what
Speaker 1: the character's name is. But we know these lawyers, they've
Speaker 1: been on a couple episodes of the show. They want
Speaker 1: to sever Page and Andrea's case from Britney's because now
Speaker 1: it's becoming clear that, like Britney's the mastermind.
Speaker 3: Brittany did all the actual violence.
Speaker 2: So then her lawyer, of course, is trying to get
Speaker 2: a deal and one of my favorite quotes comes up
Speaker 2: and he goes, listen, my client's off her nut.
Speaker 3: I love that he.
Speaker 1: Goes, She's a fucking lunatic. Let's get these other bitches. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we're back with in the judges chambers. It's Judge Petrovsky,
Speaker 1: one of my faves. They argue that Andrea and Page
Speaker 1: were under the spell of Brittany, and they're not arguing
Speaker 1: diminished capacity. They're arguing that they had no free will
Speaker 1: because they were under the spell of a charismatic, anti
Speaker 1: social leader. Essentially like what would be like a cult defense,
Speaker 1: you know, so the mom mentality they said that was
Speaker 1: used in the Reginald Denny trial. But then everyone's like,
Speaker 1: but there was no mob and the like you can
Speaker 1: kind of say that, like high school is the mob
Speaker 1: and that like there's this small group mob mentality.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Petrowski allows it and Brittany makes a deal to
Speaker 1: tell the journey. Everything goes. I really don't care. I'm
Speaker 1: getting I am getting the real Malania vibes from her.
Speaker 3: She's very I'm happy to test to. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because this is a sociopath, this is a killer,
Speaker 2: and this is something that it's so sad someone to die,
Speaker 2: but it's good that this person's in prison, Like, these
Speaker 2: are people that should not be on the streets.
Speaker 1: So Brittany testifies that the other girls had the opportunity
Speaker 1: to leave, and that they held her down and they
Speaker 1: never left, and that when they were done, they just
Speaker 1: got waffles and then took the train home. They never
Speaker 1: said stop. She said the other girls were having fun.
Speaker 1: And then they mentioned later that Brittany bought a knife,
Speaker 1: so at least she wasn't carrying one around.
Speaker 3: I was right.
Speaker 1: They did justify later and say she like ran into
Speaker 1: a shop at night and bought a knife.
Speaker 3: And a knife. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And so it's like, while Brittany was gone, you could
Speaker 2: have let little Emily say paper drive away.
Speaker 3: You chose not too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So they're calling it small group dynamics. It's when
Speaker 1: the individual identity fuses with the group and that that.
Speaker 3: Is the problem.
Speaker 1: That they're interviewing a psychiatrist and that's what she a
Speaker 1: psychologistcuse me, And she's explaining small group dynamics and saying
Speaker 1: that this is you see it with cults and with
Speaker 1: like guys in the army and stuff like that. So
Speaker 1: intense situations create intense solidarity, and that's the defense they're
Speaker 1: going for for these girls. So Novak is just insulting
Speaker 1: them and is like, if you think a teen doesn't
Speaker 1: have free will, I think she's just weak.
Speaker 2: And weakness is not a defense murder. And this is
Speaker 2: Novaka is a brunette.
Speaker 1: If I'm not mistaken, maybe this is it's a darker
Speaker 1: it's a darker Novak.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Novak and a brunette life.
Speaker 1: So basically there's a huge twist where these girls you know,
Speaker 1: you know what I call it, yeah, my l Woods moments,
Speaker 1: the l Woods moment.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the Elwoods moment happens when Andrea is on the
Speaker 1: stand and she mentions it's her birthday and here we
Speaker 1: go with Novak just gets the light bulb above her
Speaker 1: head and is like, wait, a minute. Your birthday is
Speaker 1: in January, so you're a Capricorn, right, what's your birthstone?
Speaker 1: A garnet And she's like, but you're wearing a class
Speaker 1: ring and it's say sapphire, that's my birthstone. A September birthday,
Speaker 1: which is also Emily's birthday.
Speaker 3: It's Emily's ring. This bitch wore the ring of the
Speaker 3: girl she killed to testify in court. Ballsy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so their whole thing is like they're crying, they're sad.
Speaker 2: Brittany made us. We hate it every moment. Yet I
Speaker 2: went shopping off her.
Speaker 1: Dead body, right, And then she's like, Page gave it
Speaker 1: to me, and Page is like, you liar, you took
Speaker 1: her prod of herse. So now we're really getting the
Speaker 1: idea that these girls just like pillaged the body of
Speaker 1: their dead friend and that they are all completely psychopaths
Speaker 1: who are like off their rockers. They all get guilty
Speaker 1: on all counts. But then now this is my favorite.
Speaker 1: It's a fifteen minute jury deliberation. The detectives and Novak
Speaker 1: are celebrating in the hallway and it's like, this is
Speaker 1: SVU baby, ye, nothing is this.
Speaker 3: There's never a fifteen minute.
Speaker 1: Now we just did an episode where you talked about
Speaker 1: a man who hepta woman as a slave for seven
Speaker 1: and a half years, and they deliberated for two and
Speaker 1: a half days, so like, there's definitely that's definitely a
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes liberation seems wild. So they're guilty on all accounts.
Speaker 1: And then the cops here that their shots fired at
Speaker 1: the school. When they get to the school, they've.
Speaker 3: Done prettyople standing there being like, well, could are.
Speaker 1: You Someone has painted Agnes the pig squealed on a
Speaker 1: locker and there is the dead body of just a
Speaker 1: blonde girl on the ground.
Speaker 3: It's not a character we've met before. And Agnes is
Speaker 3: being arrested and there's a dead pig hanging too, Yeah,
Speaker 3: there was.
Speaker 1: They hung a dead pig also on the locker, and
Speaker 1: Agnes says they went to jail and it didn't even
Speaker 1: make any difference.
Speaker 3: It was never going to stop.
Speaker 1: So really this episode is just like an indictment on bullying.
Speaker 2: And then we discussed was what if Brittany's in jail
Speaker 2: with Agnes, and then it really, oh.
Speaker 3: It's not it's never going to stop. If you guys
Speaker 3: end up at the same facility, Are you kidding? I
Speaker 3: mean that the High Wanta sequel, I want the best
Speaker 3: Friends in jail.
Speaker 1: Well, hopefully agnes Is I think is a boss in jail. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she runs it in jail and makes Britney's life hell
Speaker 1: in my fanfic.
Speaker 3: And you're a fanfic.
Speaker 2: But I think Brittany, like maybe more people would want
Speaker 2: to fuck her and she's richer so she could like
Speaker 2: buy them.
Speaker 3: Commissary. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't I think Brittany still rules the school in jail.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Probably.
Speaker 2: I think those sociopaths thrive in jail and the people
Speaker 2: that are like, oh no, I committed a crime because
Speaker 2: like I was pushed to it or defense or something,
Speaker 2: They're not going to rule the school.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in jail.
Speaker 1: But we're going to take a quick break and we
Speaker 1: come back. We're going to get to the real crime.
Speaker 3: This was based on.
Speaker 2: All right, welcome back. I'm going to set the scene.
Speaker 2: It's the nineties. Yes, the Craft's coming out, Yes, Buffy,
Speaker 2: the occult is in. Yeah, we're scared of satanic cults.
Speaker 2: Are there satanic preschools? You know, remnants from the eighties,
Speaker 2: So that's the vibe of the world. You know, were
Speaker 2: you a witchy girl. No never, No, you never bought
Speaker 2: any spell books from Burns and Noble. No, Okay, so
Speaker 2: I was. I was definitely buying spell books. I was
Speaker 2: definitely burning stuff in the yard, like mixing stuff.
Speaker 3: I want it. Yeah, I was.
Speaker 2: I was deep into the way. Yeah, so that's what's happening.
Speaker 2: But Shanda, we're in August nineteen ninety one. Shanda Share
Speaker 2: is not that vibe. She loves pop music. She has
Speaker 2: big ass curls, whole can of hairspray, and she.
Speaker 3: Was really close to their mom. They hung out a lot,
Speaker 3: and she.
Speaker 2: Was just she's kind of like the typical teen nineties vibe.
Speaker 3: Yeah, looks like a sweet girl.
Speaker 2: She did gymnastics, basketball, cheerleading, social butterfly. But this was
Speaker 2: when she was in Kentucky. She was going to a
Speaker 2: private school. Her mom decides, let's move closer to your
Speaker 2: father and stepmother. You love them, you get along, So
Speaker 2: they moved to Indiana. Shanda's happy, she gets to be
Speaker 2: with all her family, but she starts in a public school,
Speaker 2: which is giant. It's so much bigger than our other school.
Speaker 2: So we're in seventh grade at the new school and
Speaker 2: this drama starts with this girl who's her new friend. Says,
Speaker 2: I want to break up with my boyfriend. Will you
Speaker 2: give him back the ring that he gave me? And
Speaker 2: she's desperate for new friends. She's new at a school.
Speaker 2: She's like, yeah, of course you'll do this. So she
Speaker 2: goes to this.
Speaker 3: Guy and is like, my friend's breaking up with her. Oh,
Speaker 3: here's the ring.
Speaker 2: And the guy's cousin is this chick, Amanda, And so
Speaker 2: Amanda is like, what the fuck are you doing to
Speaker 2: my cousin.
Speaker 3: I'm going to.
Speaker 2: Protect my fucking cousin. Very new Jersey housewife vibe. So she,
Speaker 2: you know, they start fighting. Shanda gets shoved, it's a
Speaker 2: physical altercation, bump on her head and after the fight
Speaker 2: she was putting attention for a week for.
Speaker 3: Giving a ring.
Speaker 2: Well they fought, yeah, but this is another thing. And
Speaker 2: when the teachers do get involved, they punish the wrong.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's like they have the fuck God,
Speaker 1: I hate everybody deep breath.
Speaker 3: I know, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Where it's like you get called bad names and you
Speaker 2: fight back and then your shuble. It's like it's so bad,
Speaker 2: not that this is what happened, but it just reminded
Speaker 2: me of adults. So after the fight, she's put in
Speaker 2: attention for a week. But then Amanda and Shanda actually
Speaker 2: become friends in attention instead of fighting, and the mom
Speaker 2: is like, excuse me, you're friends with this bitch who
Speaker 2: hit you.
Speaker 3: I don't like that. And she's like, we get along.
Speaker 3: And this is classic, like the movie thirteen.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've seen, but any bad Girl team,
Speaker 2: even in Full House, you know the little the little whatever.
Speaker 3: Bad the cousin's name who she becomes friends with Amanda. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so Amanda and Shanda. Yeah that's cute. I bet they
Speaker 3: totally said that. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they had groups called Shamanda. So, but this is
Speaker 2: really shocking for the early nineties, really thrilling. Amanda is
Speaker 2: an out lesbian and has a girlfriend named Melinda Lovelace
Speaker 2: and they're in a relationship. They're sixty well Melinda was
Speaker 2: held back, so that's why she's in the same grade
Speaker 2: but older. Okay, so you know they're in a relationship.
Speaker 2: They're very open about the relationship, which for this time
Speaker 2: period is pretty exciting to be like teen lesbians out
Speaker 2: and about.
Speaker 3: They got harrass for being gay. They don't give a fuck.
Speaker 2: Amanda did break up with Melinda to hang out with
Speaker 2: Shanda because she realized Shanda's younger and she can control her.
Speaker 2: She doesn't need Melinda's older energy. She wants to control Shanda. Okay,
Speaker 2: so you know there's a lot of love letters, compliments,
Speaker 2: do you like girls? And Shanda's twelve? Oh my god,
Speaker 2: bt does she's twelve? During this she didn't have a
Speaker 2: defined sexuality. That's from her mom. I mean, maybe she
Speaker 2: knew she was gay, like who knows? Or maybe she wasn't.
Speaker 2: I don't know. It doesn't matter. These are young people.
Speaker 2: Amanda lays it on thick. They spend a lot of
Speaker 2: time together. In Shanda grees to be Amanda's date to
Speaker 2: the dance, so they go to the dance together. Melinda
Speaker 2: shows up to the dance and she's obviously pissed. Oh
Speaker 2: you know, she's jealous. She sees Shanda's competition and she
Speaker 2: gives Shanda a warning, stay the fuck away from Amanda.
Speaker 3: They don't care.
Speaker 2: They continue hanging, but Shanda's mother sees changes. You know,
Speaker 2: she's failing classes, she's forging her mom's signature, and every
Speaker 2: time she's in trouble, she's with Amanda.
Speaker 3: Her mom tries to ban Amanda. It doesn't work.
Speaker 2: I mean we're teno, that's not gonna happen. She also
Speaker 2: finds the letters. She knows that they're having gay sex.
Speaker 2: She goes, I actually don't care that she's gay at all.
Speaker 2: She's like, but she's twelve. Yeah, she's a kid, you know,
Speaker 2: the seventh grade, and so she's really mad. So she
Speaker 2: transferred Shanda to a Catholic school to get away from
Speaker 2: the bad girl, and she said within weeks and new friends,
Speaker 2: she's trying out for cheerleading, she's busy, and she actually
Speaker 2: doesn't care about Amanda anymore. So she's ignoring Amanda, and
Speaker 2: Amanda gets obsessed Amanda's best Yeah, I love your noises
Speaker 2: so much. I really feel like so gossipy, just crazy.
Speaker 2: This is murder, but it's all like teen gossipy. It's
Speaker 2: like it's just it's a lot to handle. So Amanda's obsessed.
Speaker 2: So Shanda writes a letter to Lisa, some other friend
Speaker 2: and is like, I wish Amanda would stop following me
Speaker 2: and leave me alone.
Speaker 3: So she makes it really clear, like.
Speaker 2: Amanda is on my grail, get off my jock, get
Speaker 2: away from me, go to sleep, Okay, So January eleventh,
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety two, that's where we're at ten forty five am.
Speaker 2: A local hunter at his favorite spot reports that he
Speaker 2: found a burned body. It has been three years since
Speaker 2: the last homicide in this town, so it you know,
Speaker 2: it shocks the town.
Speaker 3: I also want to go backwards a.
Speaker 2: Little bit and say that the first black officer in
Speaker 2: southern Indiana, Curtis Wells, is like a big He's the
Speaker 2: big investigator in this case, and so you can imagine
Speaker 2: he's seen some shit.
Speaker 3: He's like the.
Speaker 2: First black cop and in this whole county of Indiana.
Speaker 2: I'm sure you know he's seen a lot. And he's
Speaker 2: he's horrified about this. I mean, he's like crying in
Speaker 2: these interviews, like I think it was really horrible. You know,
Speaker 2: they smelled burned flesh. The victim was super burned, and
Speaker 2: it was just really horrible. And the victims had clenched
Speaker 2: fists and up in there like she was fighting. She
Speaker 2: really was fighting. They found a soda bottle with accelerant
Speaker 2: in it. And this is what they didn't understand. There's
Speaker 2: so much woods. Why would you put the body out
Speaker 2: in the open so you want someone to see the body,
Speaker 2: Like you could have hidden the body in the woods
Speaker 2: and it wouldn't have been found till next winter or something.
Speaker 2: So it was a little confusing. Why would you leave
Speaker 2: it out in the open. And this is where the
Speaker 2: occult stuff comes out? Where is this a satanic thing?
Speaker 2: Is this a ritual?
Speaker 1: What's going on exactly?
Speaker 2: And this all happens next to this abandoned house that's
Speaker 2: called by locals is the Witch's House, very hocus pokes,
Speaker 2: and teens go there to drink and do demonic shit
Speaker 2: and probably get fingered, as all teens like to do.
Speaker 3: So they're like Winifred's.
Speaker 2: So they're like, is are there rituals?
Speaker 3: What's going on here?
Speaker 2: A distraught teen shows up at the precinct that night
Speaker 2: at nine to thirty pm.
Speaker 3: Her name is Tony. That's pretty fun a girl and
Speaker 3: the name is Tona.
Speaker 1: You know she's I used to know Tony's In the
Speaker 1: eighties when I was younger, we had like a babysitter
Speaker 1: named Tony. It was like, I think it was always Intonio,
Speaker 1: but it was like a cool eighties nickname.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's always like when a girl has a boy's name,
Speaker 2: it's yeah, fun Joey for Josephine whatever. So Tony Lawrence
Speaker 2: says she knows something about the murder. So this is
Speaker 2: January eleventh. The body is found in the morning. I'm
Speaker 2: taking us back one day to January tenth Shanda. So basically,
Speaker 2: the dad told her to turn off the TV and
Speaker 2: go to bed.
Speaker 3: At seven am.
Speaker 2: When the stepmom wakes up, Shanda's not in her room,
Speaker 2: and they're like, maybe she's snuck out. They search a
Speaker 2: few neighborhoods, they can't find her. So, you know, Steve
Speaker 2: calls the mom and you know, her heart falls to
Speaker 2: the floor and she rushes to the dad's house and
Speaker 2: she sees Shanda's purse is on the table and she goes,
Speaker 2: my daughter would go nowhere without that purse that purses
Speaker 2: everything to her. Call the police, right fucking now, whoa
Speaker 2: So they call the police, they file a missing person's report.
Speaker 2: They called Amanda, and Amanda said, no, I have not
Speaker 2: seen her, and gave a suggestion of another person and
Speaker 2: said maybe this other person knows. So right away we're like,
Speaker 2: maybe she knows something like how.
Speaker 3: Do you what? How are you and helping?
Speaker 2: So it's a little suspicious Tony's family, this is the
Speaker 2: girl who came to give information about the murder. She's
Speaker 2: a wallflower, good kid, but this good I love this,
Speaker 2: but this good kid had an evil tale to tell. Okay,
Speaker 2: they go into the room, they interview her. She's crying
Speaker 2: so much, she's unhinged. She says, basically, she met a
Speaker 2: girl last night that was bragging about going to the
Speaker 2: witch's house and murdering a girl. And she heard the
Speaker 2: name Shanda. So suddenly, this is what we always want.
Speaker 2: The counties start working together, so they called her county.
Speaker 2: They cross examined with Shanda, and they realize this is
Speaker 2: the body, and this is we you know, we believe
Speaker 2: that a big problem with police and how the Golden
Speaker 2: State killer was able to kill for so long as
Speaker 2: that cops don't work.
Speaker 3: With each other.
Speaker 1: Yeah, jurisdictions like have no reciprocity, they don't speak to
Speaker 1: one another.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is really nice to see that the
Speaker 2: counties were communicating with each other. So midnight that night,
Speaker 2: a cop comes to the dazz door and says, Shanda's
Speaker 2: gone and she has been murdered.
Speaker 3: So that sucks.
Speaker 2: It's really upsetting, and you know, even more upsetting, she
Speaker 2: was alive when she was set on fire and she
Speaker 2: died of smoke and elation.
Speaker 3: So that sucks. Yeah, that really sucks.
Speaker 2: So Tony says, this girl Hope and her and the
Speaker 2: other teens that are involved are in a town called Madison,
Speaker 2: fifty miles away from Shanda's town. So it's like, how
Speaker 2: do you even know Shanda? And they said they didn't
Speaker 2: know her and they didn't even have plans to know her.
Speaker 3: What happened?
Speaker 2: So Hope and Tony are friends from kindergarten, and Hope
Speaker 2: introduces Tony to Laurie Tackert. She has blonde, short hair
Speaker 2: and she loves being gothic. So they meet this girl, Laurie,
Speaker 2: and that's when Laurie asks, Hope, have you asked Tony Y?
Speaker 2: And Tonia is like, what what are you talking about?
Speaker 2: And Laurie says, we're going to kill a little girl tonight,
Speaker 2: and Tony doesn't believe it. She thinks it's a sick joke.
Speaker 2: She's like, a sure, we're gonna kill a girl tonight,
Speaker 2: you know. So Laurie drives and they're picking up another
Speaker 2: girl and that girl wants to kill this girl. So
Speaker 2: we get the vibe that Laurie just has bloodlust she
Speaker 2: wants to murder, and she met the perfect person who
Speaker 2: has someone to murder.
Speaker 3: Okay, so we have one person.
Speaker 2: Who wants to kill Shanda, and we have one person
Speaker 2: who's like, I don't care.
Speaker 3: Who I kill, but somebody to die.
Speaker 2: So they get to Shanda's house around midnight and to
Speaker 2: get her out Hope and Tony. Shanda's never met Hope
Speaker 2: and Tony, and Hope and TONI are like, listen, Amanda's
Speaker 2: waiting for you.
Speaker 3: She wants to see you.
Speaker 2: She sent us here to get you to her, and
Speaker 2: you know it's love, like she did date this girl,
Speaker 2: like there is a little bit there. She wants to
Speaker 2: see Amanda. So she leaves with these girls without the car,
Speaker 2: though without her purse. So she leaves with two girls
Speaker 2: she's never met to go see Amanda she's had a
Speaker 2: relationship with and wants to see stuff. She opens the
Speaker 2: car door, she doesn't recognize any of these girls. She's like, okay,
Speaker 2: who are you whatever. Then she's like, wait, I want
Speaker 2: to see Amanda. Where's Amanda? What's happening? And they're like,
Speaker 2: Amanda's waiting for you at the Witch's house. See, none
Speaker 2: of these are red flags for little shand.
Speaker 3: It's the middle of the night. I don't know, the
Speaker 3: middle of the night.
Speaker 1: It's a car for girls you've never known, and you're
Speaker 1: going to meet your mean next girlfriend at the witch's house.
Speaker 1: And I'm not blaming her in any way. I just
Speaker 1: am surprised she went along with all these red flags.
Speaker 1: But I guess if I was twelve and people came
Speaker 1: to pick me up in a car, I'd be like,
Speaker 1: where to you know?
Speaker 3: But that's the thing with these situations.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I, You're like, you totally put yourself in
Speaker 2: these shoes.
Speaker 3: You're like, I could see myself doing it.
Speaker 2: If someone had like a huge crush on or because
Speaker 2: I didn't date much of it, but like if it
Speaker 2: was someone in there, like listen, she's I don't.
Speaker 3: But it's also this thing of ignoring your gut. Who
Speaker 3: knows what.
Speaker 2: Shanda was feeling and being like, no, I'll go, I'll try. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's the whole thing, and we need to teach everyone constantly,
Speaker 2: like listen to your intuition, no matter how foolish she being,
Speaker 2: sometimes fucking follow it.
Speaker 3: But we don't know. So she agrees to the trip.
Speaker 3: There's a twist.
Speaker 2: It's not Amanda, it's a Melinda loveless it was Melinda.
Speaker 3: It's Melinda. I am shook right now? Yeah, wow, are
Speaker 3: you impressed with how I played this? You played that?
Speaker 3: I was like, why are you telling me about LORI?
Speaker 3: Who are these people? Oh my god? Yeah, it was Melinda.
Speaker 3: It's Melinda. It's the job. But did Melinda even know
Speaker 3: that they weren't even together anymore? She didn't care. She
Speaker 3: was just like, fuck this little two. This is the thing.
Speaker 2: Like, that's the thing, with like a lot of this
Speaker 2: and as he touches on this a lot with so suopass.
Speaker 3: Can you rehabilitate? Can you change that?
Speaker 2: It's like an ongoing theme of the show, and most
Speaker 2: you can't. If you feel nothing, you will never feel anything.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So is it because this girl is in such
Speaker 3: a jealous rage or she fucking cares?
Speaker 1: She just like, you know, who would be great? This
Speaker 1: girl who pissed me off this one time? Yeah, Melinda.
Speaker 2: They arrest Laurie and Melinda for the murder of this
Speaker 2: girl less than one day after the murder. So, I know,
Speaker 2: teens that murder. It takes time to get good at murdering. Like,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of evidence you think maybe fire takes
Speaker 2: away evidence, and you know people that are professionals and
Speaker 2: fire shit are like, no, it creates evidence.
Speaker 3: You're you're feeding us constant evidence. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And our favorite doctor Michael Badden, forensic pathologist, he always says,
Speaker 2: like a lot of killers usually they either leave something
Speaker 2: or take something.
Speaker 3: It's very rare. That's something like that. That scene is
Speaker 3: completely undisturbed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they find a bunch of evidence like they do
Speaker 2: in the SVU episode. There's blood, hair, weapons, bodily fluids.
Speaker 2: I mean, the cop was like you could tell she
Speaker 2: had such a terrible night. And I think SVU handled
Speaker 2: this adaptation very well in showing that Emily suffered in
Speaker 2: that car for yrs. Yeah, and so did Shanta unfortunately.
Speaker 2: So they started investigating exactly what happened. And Melinda, like
Speaker 2: a lot of times, her father was a monster. She
Speaker 2: was physically and sexually abused her whole childhood. Her father
Speaker 2: was convicted of that, and she was just like a violent,
Speaker 2: jealous teen and had to be her way. And again,
Speaker 2: why I believe that all kids should get therapy non stop.
Speaker 2: You know, like you can't let abuse go unchecked like
Speaker 2: this for so long. You're gonna fucking snap or have
Speaker 2: some personality flaws. So Amanda's dad actually earlier filed complaints
Speaker 2: against Melinda's letters, and in the letters, she threatened to
Speaker 2: kill Shanda, but she needed Laurie to help with the murder.
Speaker 2: But she was like sending Amanda letters saying she was
Speaker 2: going to kill Shanda. Well, it's like that the dad
Speaker 2: filed complaints against Melinda so and these letters. So I
Speaker 2: don't know what the cops were waiting for, if they
Speaker 2: received these letters or not. I'm not really sure how
Speaker 2: that an investigation or what if they listened. But that's
Speaker 2: another awful crime trope that always happens where cops don't
Speaker 2: do shit until it's too late. Yeah, if a cops
Speaker 2: saw those letters, I mean, I'm getting angry right now.
Speaker 3: If they saw those letters and did nothing.
Speaker 2: Laurie came from a fundamentalist home and so her rebellion
Speaker 2: was getting into satan and witches. She loved fire arson,
Speaker 2: she talked about wanting to burn someone for a very
Speaker 2: long time.
Speaker 3: Oh good, a true bloodlust.
Speaker 2: They kept saying Lauri needed to kill Melinda had someone
Speaker 2: to kill, so they needed someone to lure them. And
Speaker 2: they really don't think that Hope and that other and
Speaker 2: Tony knew what it was actually going to happen, Like
Speaker 2: I don't think they were fully aware of.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they needed someone to lure Shanda, and they just
Speaker 1: were like these if we if the less these girls know,
Speaker 1: the better, just get her to come out, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they just thought it would be like teaching her
Speaker 2: a lesson, maybe a couple of time, but even still.
Speaker 3: It's like, you guys are fucking idiots.
Speaker 2: So the two main teens are arrested, but the other
Speaker 2: two girls are also charged, So all four teens will
Speaker 2: be charged as adults.
Speaker 3: And even Hope in Tony yes, yes.
Speaker 2: Because that's the thing. They had multiple times to stop this.
Speaker 2: Yeah they did not. And you know, I'm sure there's
Speaker 2: lots of debates about how involved. Like you know, it's
Speaker 2: how we talk about with like our government now too,
Speaker 2: where like the moderates that stay silent are the most dangerous.
Speaker 2: It's not like the most crazy of the people. It's
Speaker 2: the bystanders, the people that stam.
Speaker 3: Could have done some well.
Speaker 1: And that's like in the episode, these girls were like,
Speaker 1: we didn't do anything, and it's like you sat there
Speaker 1: kind of like loving it, like you didn't do anything.
Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, and you know, how do Tony did
Speaker 3: come to the police.
Speaker 1: So, I mean, I wonder if that gives her anything
Speaker 1: in her trial, but I think yeah.
Speaker 2: So, so the two main girls are up for the
Speaker 2: death penalty. Whoa so to get the death penalty off
Speaker 2: the table, the girls plead guilty.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: December nineteen ninety two, the hearings begin, but no girls
Speaker 2: go to trial.
Speaker 3: They all plead guilty. There's absolutely no trial.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: It comes out like Shanda begged and pleaded for her life,
Speaker 2: like this was a lot of steps. They could have
Speaker 2: stopped so many times. There's like they're tying rope to Shanda.
Speaker 2: The girls did nothing. Melinda's punching her. She was like
Speaker 2: it hurts. They did nothing. They try. Oh god, this
Speaker 2: is awful. I forgot about this. They tried to slice
Speaker 2: her throat, but the knife was too dull.
Speaker 3: Oh god.
Speaker 2: So they strangle her unconscious, throw her in the trunk.
Speaker 2: They start driving. She's in so much pain for hours.
Speaker 2: They drive all night and sometimes they stop to beat her.
Speaker 2: It's morning. She's still alive and she's making too much noise.
Speaker 2: So they pull over. Laurie gets out and they hit
Speaker 2: her with a tirn iron on her head.
Speaker 3: They laugh about it.
Speaker 2: The last stop is they buy the two leaders soda,
Speaker 2: they fill it with gasoline, and they take her to
Speaker 2: a row near Madison and they do it. I don't
Speaker 2: have to explain what they do. The cops are pissed.
Speaker 2: They're like, there's no hell big enough for these girls.
Speaker 2: And again another horrifying detail. I'm sorry to have to
Speaker 2: share this. Her last words were mommy. She was like
Speaker 2: crying for her mom which they said in the SVU.
Speaker 1: We forgot to mention that they did say that nsfe
Speaker 1: that she cried for her mommy, and the girls laughed.
Speaker 3: At that, which is awful.
Speaker 1: Well, tell me about their sentences why, I would't know
Speaker 1: how much they got.
Speaker 2: So you know, Laurie and Melinda tried to blame each other.
Speaker 2: Of course, everyone's on each other. So basically, the two girls,
Speaker 2: the main girls, are sentenced to sixty years in prison.
Speaker 3: Hope sixty years in prison.
Speaker 2: Tony was the least involved and got twenty years in prison.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't feel bad for.
Speaker 2: Any of these people with their sences, obviously, and the
Speaker 2: dad never recovered and he drank himself to death and
Speaker 2: is very.
Speaker 3: Next Shanda's dad. Yeah, he can.
Speaker 2: I mean, losing a child in this way is so hard.
Speaker 2: Now I do need to update everybody. All four of
Speaker 2: them are out on parole, all of them, all four wow. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so they each served like like Melinda got out last
Speaker 2: Aguess and she served twenty six years. But they're all free,
Speaker 2: and you can watch interviews of all of them chit
Speaker 2: chatting and talking.
Speaker 3: All over town if you want. I yeah, all four
Speaker 3: of them are out.
Speaker 1: Do you think Glory learned to not like have a
Speaker 1: bloodlust and pyromaniac tendencies when she was in jail.
Speaker 2: I don't know, because the thing is, when I think
Speaker 2: about it, twenty six years is so long, but it's
Speaker 2: not long enough.
Speaker 3: You were supposed to serve six when you're fifteen. They
Speaker 3: all got out like forty.
Speaker 2: Forties, so they can commit more crimes. Maybe they've learned.
Speaker 2: I mean, I have no fucking idea. This brings up
Speaker 2: so many more questions than answers. But the women are out.
Speaker 3: I can't these killers are that they're on parole. They're out. Wow.
Speaker 2: But I'm glad people are still sitting in jail with
Speaker 2: weed charges, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's let these teams out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, tortured and murdered a girl over
Speaker 2: a whole night, and we have people sitting in jail
Speaker 2: for you know, drug chargers and people sitting in jail that.
Speaker 3: Haven't even been found guilty of acme and yeah, these
Speaker 3: murderers are out.
Speaker 1: So I guess one of the big differences in the
Speaker 1: case is just like probably the money and the bullying thing,
Speaker 1: because they were not a posse of girls that were
Speaker 1: all friends with each other. Were kind of a hodgepodge group.
Speaker 1: But a lot of the other details like kind of
Speaker 1: match up with the episode. But this was not in
Speaker 1: New York City, so it was not like elite private
Speaker 1: school girls, and it wasn't like girls that were friends.
Speaker 1: It was just like kind of sounds like a bunch
Speaker 1: of board teens, to be honest, and then like two
Speaker 1: board teams met up with two psychotic teens and this
Speaker 1: is like what happened.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so if you have a teen, maybe sit them
Speaker 2: down and let them know not to be an accomplice
Speaker 2: to murder, like teacher kids, to stand up for stuff.
Speaker 2: I don't know, like hoping to I understand why these
Speaker 2: two lunatics they are. How you know, but it's the thing.
Speaker 2: It's like the fucking Holocaust happened. We all sit by. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm part of the problem, but I know I've not
Speaker 2: sat around as people gotten beat up.
Speaker 1: And Lisa is definitely But I also wonder when Tony
Speaker 1: and Hope because let's say it's switched and they realized,
Speaker 1: uh oh, yeah, well, how do they know they're not next?
Speaker 3: So I also understand the fear, like how do you
Speaker 3: stand up to these lunatics that could literally just get
Speaker 3: you next and beat the shit out of you with
Speaker 3: a tire iron. Yeah, And I just.
Speaker 2: Want to say, if anyone wants to watch any of
Speaker 2: their interviews and you know, see these people they're on YouTube.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, We're going to take a quick break
Speaker 1: and we come back. We're gonna have a guest from
Speaker 1: the show. Really excited for our next guest. This actor
Speaker 1: has been in the controversial movie Bully These is a
Speaker 1: big fan, as well as Martin Scorsese's The Aviator and
Speaker 1: Larsa and The Real Girl.
Speaker 3: A real talent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she was super incredible in the Lifetime movie
Speaker 2: The Secret Life of Marilyn Monroe.
Speaker 3: She was very perfect and looked so much like her.
Speaker 1: We are beyond jazzed to talk today with mean girl
Speaker 1: Britney O'Malley herself, Kelly Garner, can you hear me? Yeah?
Speaker 2: So your character SVU is amazing. She yells at her mom.
Speaker 2: She's not scared of jail. She is a murderer.
Speaker 3: How yeah, I don't even know the first question, Well
Speaker 3: would you?
Speaker 1: Can you give us a rundown from like did you
Speaker 1: audition for this? Or like how did it go?
Speaker 5: I one hundred percent auditioned for this, and I had
Speaker 5: so much confidence. I just knew I was going to
Speaker 5: get this because I grew up with a sister who's
Speaker 5: only like two and a half years.
Speaker 4: Older than me. We she but we are like extremely dramatic.
Speaker 5: So I just grew up in a household where if
Speaker 5: you did your laundry and your white sweater got dyed red,
Speaker 5: it was like screaming and crying and it was just
Speaker 5: my parents somehow miraculously allowed us to just be the
Speaker 5: he's got a free, wonderful, awful children. So yes, so
Speaker 5: I auditioned for it. You guys, I think it was
Speaker 5: one of the first times Law and Order, which shoots
Speaker 5: in New York, came to LA to cast and I
Speaker 5: think they came to La to cast for this because
Speaker 5: they wanted a very specific like valley.
Speaker 3: They wanted like blonde bitchy girls.
Speaker 4: They wanted blonde bitchy girls. And they came to the
Speaker 4: right place. They came to Hollywood.
Speaker 5: I remember hearing that fact, but this was what sixteen
Speaker 5: years ago.
Speaker 4: So I went in.
Speaker 5: I coached with my acting coach at the time when
Speaker 5: I was little, and he just I think he just
Speaker 5: gave me really good, great notes where it was just
Speaker 5: go big or go home, you know, like she goes
Speaker 5: from being calm and docile to playing a victim to
Speaker 5: you know, screaming for you know, not even caring that
Speaker 5: she's being caught, but just doesn't want to go down alone.
Speaker 5: And so we just had fun playing with going bigger,
Speaker 5: going home. I remember being so nervous in an audition because
Speaker 5: I just sit in that chair and then just start screaming.
Speaker 4: You know. And so that's what happened. I booked it.
Speaker 4: My hair got bleached.
Speaker 3: I was going to ask you, was your hair of
Speaker 3: that color? Or did they like hype it all the
Speaker 3: way they hyped it?
Speaker 4: And here's the thing.
Speaker 5: So I did something for this podcast, which is I watched.
Speaker 4: The episode, which I had.
Speaker 5: Not seen since it came out, and I thought I
Speaker 5: was going to cringe, but.
Speaker 3: You were unpressed.
Speaker 5: Well I was, I mean I was so young, but yeah,
Speaker 5: I mean I was kind of impressed, and I more
Speaker 5: cringed over like the color of my hair, Like I
Speaker 5: was like, why did they my hairs like orange and straw?
Speaker 4: It's like, what is what?
Speaker 2: My theory is that you were the head evil, so
Speaker 2: you were the most blonde and it went down from there,
Speaker 2: and the others they had more mousey hair, so you
Speaker 2: could tell they weren't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because there was one girl in your group, the cheerleader,
Speaker 1: who like barely got to talk. Like that girl must
Speaker 1: have not like gotten like an under five rate or
Speaker 1: something because she barely got to speak.
Speaker 5: Yeah, she was definitely a five and with her five lines,
Speaker 5: she killed it. She was genuinely crying in that scene.
Speaker 5: And I'm like, do you call the crowd of purse
Speaker 5: so fun? That was for some time at Ariel Kebble,
Speaker 5: And that was the first time I went to New
Speaker 5: York City ever.
Speaker 1: And it was winter, right, because like that doesn't the
Speaker 1: episode start with like the snow eat the bloody snow
Speaker 1: so it's like that in New York and the winter
Speaker 1: is like a very specific time to come and see
Speaker 1: New York for the first time.
Speaker 5: Also, it was beautiful, and they put us up at
Speaker 5: one of those like you know, touristy big hotel hells
Speaker 5: that bordered the park. Yeah, and I forget which one
Speaker 5: h and we took like you know, carriage.
Speaker 4: Rides in the snow. We were just like living it up.
Speaker 4: It was. It was really fun.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I love that you guys got to be
Speaker 2: like a group of girl guest stars. It's usually just
Speaker 2: like one killer gets to join, so that must have
Speaker 2: been fun to have pals that are also been flown in.
Speaker 3: And we were wondering, is it wild.
Speaker 2: That all this murder started because you guys were fighting
Speaker 2: over a man dressed as grapes?
Speaker 3: Was that shocking?
Speaker 5: Oh my god, what is wrong with that grape costume?
Speaker 4: By the way, it's a pendulous.
Speaker 5: Grape like dangs, weirdness areas. I felt bad for that actor.
Speaker 5: He was like tried to like cross his arms and
Speaker 5: be like, you know, look normal.
Speaker 4: It was really funny.
Speaker 3: Do you have any memories?
Speaker 2: We always ask everyone about any Mariska stories iced tea,
Speaker 2: Any like any moments with the I'm being on set
Speaker 2: with everyone.
Speaker 4: Yes, I remember just being extremely intimidated.
Speaker 5: I mean Marishka at that point, I think that was
Speaker 5: the fourth season or something, and she was just so
Speaker 5: dialed in and now having been a lead of a
Speaker 5: television show as an actor, like I just realized how
Speaker 5: much work that is, Like that is, it's no joke.
Speaker 4: You just have no time.
Speaker 5: So I remember just not wanting to fuck up and
Speaker 5: everyone being super sweet, so professional.
Speaker 4: But my favorite person on the cast.
Speaker 5: Which I should have looked this up last night, is
Speaker 5: the gentleman Dan Florak.
Speaker 4: Yes, thank you.
Speaker 5: Yes, he was so so wonderful in those interrogation scenes
Speaker 5: and really gave me the confidence and the liberty to
Speaker 5: just like trust my instincts because you can really play
Speaker 5: in those scenes. And he just could not have been
Speaker 5: a more giving, wonderful actor. And I've never forgotten how
Speaker 5: he made me feel, and in fact, sometimes when I
Speaker 5: don't feel great about myself, like he'll be one of
Speaker 5: those those voices in my head that like just just
Speaker 5: remember from him just instilling me.
Speaker 3: God, I'm gonna cry. I love Captain Craign for the Wind.
Speaker 2: So you were also in the movie Bully, which horrified
Speaker 2: me when I watched it.
Speaker 3: I remember when it came out. I remember like renting
Speaker 3: it from.
Speaker 2: Blockbuster, and you play another killer team kind of yeah,
Speaker 2: what do you think it is about you?
Speaker 5: You know, maybe I'm a psychopath and I'm just not
Speaker 5: discouraging it. Actually, I think Larry Clark on the set
Speaker 5: of Bully had had told me a really interesting thing.
Speaker 5: And I believe I shot Bully, was shot before Law
Speaker 5: and Order. And I think that's why my hair is
Speaker 5: so many weird colors, because they had dyed my hair
Speaker 5: blue from like Manning panic, and I had just it
Speaker 5: took me years to try and get it normal. But
Speaker 5: Larry had said, because I really had to fight for Bully,
Speaker 5: because it was this sweet looking, you know, southern California, innocent.
Speaker 5: I didn't do drugs, like, I didn't belong in that world, strangely,
Speaker 5: but I fought for it, and I read it and
Speaker 5: he liked me as an actor, and he said, you know,
Speaker 5: it's easier for me to take an actress and dye
Speaker 5: her hair and put her in clothing and put her
Speaker 5: in great hair and makeup, and you know, get this
Speaker 5: performance from her and care than to care about watching
Speaker 5: this person kind of slip or fall from society, or
Speaker 5: not make a right choice, or go back.
Speaker 4: To drugs or do this thing.
Speaker 5: It's better to take someone who has that kind of innocence,
Speaker 5: which I had at the time I was seventeen, versus
Speaker 5: somebody who understands that life and to try to get
Speaker 5: the audience to have empathy for that person.
Speaker 1: So you were saying like you and your sister were
Speaker 1: kind of dramatic together and.
Speaker 4: You play still are yeah, yeah, yeah too.
Speaker 3: I have a sister too. I got it.
Speaker 1: And you play a mean girl in this click of
Speaker 1: mean girls in this movie. And is there any a
Speaker 1: part of you that was like that when you were
Speaker 1: in high school or anything.
Speaker 3: Did you have any mean girl tendencies?
Speaker 5: I do have mean girl tendencies, but as I got older.
Speaker 5: When I was in high school, I did not have
Speaker 5: mean girl tendencies. In fact, I was picked on by
Speaker 5: the mean girls because I had started acting and was
Speaker 5: in things that people had seen. So then I was like, oh,
Speaker 5: like Kelly thinks she's like better than everybody, and like
Speaker 5: Kelly this, and like so I kind of got that
Speaker 5: type of shit from the girls who were supposed to
Speaker 5: be my friends, and then I also have like a
Speaker 5: really must up mouth for so long. So I just
Speaker 5: don't think I was ever like. I didn't like fit
Speaker 5: the part esthetically to like be a mean girl when
Speaker 5: I was younger, because it was just like it took
Speaker 5: me a second to come into myself. If I ever did,
Speaker 5: if I ever did come into myself, this is still
Speaker 5: a question in my mind.
Speaker 4: But no, when I got older, I became a mean girl.
Speaker 4: And I understand, I get kind of where.
Speaker 5: It comes from because being young and successful and then
Speaker 5: in Hollywood and living in Hollywood, it was hard, and
Speaker 5: so I could see those tendencies of it was a
Speaker 5: real need to almost like deflect and defend myself against
Speaker 5: other people's comments or other people's judgments. And so yeah,
Speaker 5: I had these years where I knew that I was
Speaker 5: such a sweet person, but I could see how I
Speaker 5: would oh god, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, And in the SVU episode, they doctor Hoang
Speaker 2: talks about how girls are not raised to be aggressive,
Speaker 2: and so we fight in these passive, aggressive, manipulative ways.
Speaker 2: So we were still lady like well being mean, and
Speaker 2: I liked learning.
Speaker 5: That It's true. I think we use our female relationships
Speaker 5: to kind of learn a lot about ourselves and.
Speaker 4: It gets It's a tough one, man.
Speaker 5: I mean relationships as I got older, I now have
Speaker 5: some of the.
Speaker 4: Most beautiful, healthy female relationships in my life.
Speaker 5: But in my early twenties, I just couldn't tell what
Speaker 5: was real, who wanted something?
Speaker 4: Who was, you know, talking shit behind my back?
Speaker 5: Who was It was just hard and you're alone and
Speaker 5: you're scared and you're just trying to figure it out yourself.
Speaker 3: Would you do SVU again? Like if they came knocking?
Speaker 4: Of course, I think it any one came knocking.
Speaker 5: I think it's important to look at the people who
Speaker 5: want to work with you, even though we all have
Speaker 5: aspirations and want to, you know, have the people we
Speaker 5: want to work with. I think it's so important to
Speaker 5: always look the people who want to work with you. Now,
Speaker 5: So if that wasn't who see like your value as
Speaker 5: you are? So yeah, they came knocking, one hundred percent.
Speaker 5: It's funny because I think it was a couple of
Speaker 5: years ago.
Speaker 4: I went in.
Speaker 5: It was with Dick Wolf and it was like a
Speaker 5: big room for one of his new shows. And it
Speaker 5: was funny because as soon as I stepped in, they
Speaker 5: all remember me. It was like the same casting on
Speaker 5: the same who all remember me from that girl?
Speaker 4: You know? And so yeah, of course I would.
Speaker 3: They're probably all like, do not mess with her? Yeah,
Speaker 3: I feel you would have to.
Speaker 4: Be a right role.
Speaker 5: I could never It's hard. I mean I'll go read
Speaker 5: for them all the time. But if just me as
Speaker 5: an FBI agent or anything in that field just seems.
Speaker 4: Really like it's like a stretch.
Speaker 5: But as like a guest star who's maybe a little unstable,
Speaker 5: like I can do that, but yeah, to play like
Speaker 5: the tough cop.
Speaker 4: Maybe one day maybe I'll calm.
Speaker 5: And be able to like center and yeah.
Speaker 3: I do have some nonsview questions if that's okay.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Shoot, So I grew up on some like it hot,
Speaker 2: and my mom's obsessed with Marilyn Monroe. We have stuff
Speaker 2: all over the house. I was just like raised on
Speaker 2: her and you killed it. I mean you totally embodied her.
Speaker 2: It was insane to watch, and it was just so good.
Speaker 2: And the wardrobe was so good.
Speaker 4: The wardrobe Girsha Phillips.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was like a white little overall shorts thing
Speaker 2: with like a red and pink pajama tool dress that
Speaker 2: was so good, and I was just wondering what your
Speaker 2: experience was playing such a well, first, did you feel
Speaker 2: like the hottest girl in the world. You're like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm being I'm playing marily Monroe.
Speaker 5: This is well, Well, there were moments where, yes, you
Speaker 5: were on set and you were lit and what's guy
Speaker 5: shot all of Matt Chris Manley shot all of Madmen.
Speaker 5: So it was just like it looked beautiful, especially for
Speaker 5: a lifetime film, Like it just like really looked beautiful.
Speaker 5: And so yeah, there were moments with the wig and
Speaker 5: the hair and the makeup that you did. I did
Speaker 5: feel like the most beautiful woman in the world. And
Speaker 5: then I would go back to my trailer and like
Speaker 5: get a look at myself in the mirror and be like, oh,
Speaker 5: I'm not Marilyn Monroe. Like they also had her like
Speaker 5: a thousand images of her face pasted in every like
Speaker 5: head department's office if it was makeup or wardrobe or
Speaker 5: or set deck, and so it was She's unbelievably unreal,
Speaker 5: Like I would have loved to have seen what her
Speaker 5: face looked like in person, and apparently like one of
Speaker 5: the first faces of plastic surgery, which is crazy. Her
Speaker 5: X rays her like work X Rays were sold at
Speaker 5: auction I think, like a handful of years ago, so
Speaker 5: it was.
Speaker 4: Really daunting to play.
Speaker 5: But I love Marilyn Monroe. I mean, I just she's intoxicating,
Speaker 5: and she's a child, and she's a woman in process.
Speaker 5: You know, she's like trying to be all these things.
Speaker 5: And I really think too like she had had it
Speaker 5: rough because she in a time where a woman was
Speaker 5: trying to be defined. She was almost defining this archetype
Speaker 5: of woman that is still unsettled.
Speaker 2: And then another selfish question I have is Leonardo DiCaprio
Speaker 2: was my number one crush growing up?
Speaker 3: Was that fun? How was that working with him?
Speaker 4: That was so much fun? That was so much fun?
Speaker 4: That was my.
Speaker 5: I mean I was in love with him. I was,
Speaker 5: I mean Roman Juliet, Like I couldn't believe that I
Speaker 5: was getting to do that. And I was so nervous
Speaker 5: too because it's Scorsese and it's DiCaprio, and I think
Speaker 5: I'm in the scene too with like Alec Baldwin at
Speaker 5: one point, and I got to have all these like
Speaker 5: private samba lessons with like Leonardo DiCaprio, and like once
Speaker 5: it had to be with like the dance instructor in
Speaker 5: his like hotel room, because he'd flown in late from
Speaker 5: I think, like hanging out.
Speaker 4: With Giselle on the weekend.
Speaker 5: I was like in Montreal, and I was like, this
Speaker 5: is crazy. He goes meet me at my hotel, like
Speaker 5: the dance instructors there, and so you know, I got
Speaker 5: to do all these private lessons and it was just
Speaker 5: a dream. And I remember being on set and just
Speaker 5: almost having a panic attack because I also have dark
Speaker 5: eye contacts for this role, and every time I would blink,
Speaker 5: they would just kind of like move and like wash
Speaker 5: over this like dark color would wash over my eyes,
Speaker 5: and I was having tunnel vision.
Speaker 4: I was having a panic attack.
Speaker 5: And there's like real vintage clothes, and I just remember
Speaker 5: ice I swept so much from my armfits.
Speaker 4: I don't know what's wrong with me. I don't know
Speaker 4: if it's healthy. I just do.
Speaker 5: And I remember just being mortified because I had sweat
Speaker 5: all day. And then at the end of like a
Speaker 5: fucking nineteen hour day, I had to do this samba
Speaker 5: with Leonardo Cacaprio in a vintage dress. And you know,
Speaker 5: if anyone's ever worn a vintage dress and you sweat
Speaker 5: in it. It just smells like one hundred years of mothballs.
Speaker 5: And so I'm like dancing with him, and I'm just like,
Speaker 5: it's not it's not me that smells it just it's
Speaker 5: the dress.
Speaker 4: Like I just want you to know, it's not me,
Speaker 4: it's the dress. And I was just a young dork.
Speaker 5: I was next in the hands of Romeo and just wow, embarrassing.
Speaker 5: He's so sweet though, He's a very sweet, key, wonderful guy.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, what a great interview.
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously she love Leonardo DiCaprio too. I wouldn't
Speaker 2: trust anyone who doesn't didn't have a crush.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I stand a down to earth actress. I really
Speaker 1: feel like she seemed really just like, yeah, I had
Speaker 1: to samba when I was sweaty with Leonardo DiCaprio.
Speaker 3: It's fucking dramatic. It is weird because an aviator, he
Speaker 3: plays a fucking weirdo. Like I've never seen that movie,
Speaker 3: so I was kind of letting you take the lead
Speaker 3: on that.
Speaker 2: Also, I loved that we learned facts from Kelly. I
Speaker 2: didn't know that that was like the first time they
Speaker 2: went to La to cast.
Speaker 1: I thought they never cast it and I didn't think
Speaker 1: they ever cast in La, but they went out out
Speaker 1: there looking for blonde bitches and they got what they
Speaker 1: came for.
Speaker 2: And I love that she holds on to Captain Craigan's
Speaker 2: dam Fork's advice me.
Speaker 3: My heart melts it.
Speaker 5: Oh.
Speaker 3: I love Dan Florik. I'm a Dan floric stand for life.
Speaker 1: And I think that's so sweet that like he's the
Speaker 1: person that like stuck in her head as like one
Speaker 1: of her voices forever.
Speaker 3: That's so cute. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think advice for everyone about that is like when
Speaker 2: people tell you nice things.
Speaker 1: Remember Kelly Gardner. Everyone, let's let's get into our post mortem.
Speaker 2: We learned if you're a parent, honestly, Kara, you should
Speaker 2: let Rosie yell at you, because then she might become
Speaker 2: a successful actress.
Speaker 3: Okay, but she could also be a stabber who takes
Speaker 3: a bunch, takes a girlfriend on a joy ride, and
Speaker 3: then stabs her to death because she went out with
Speaker 3: her grape suited boyfriend. God, I don't know if I'm
Speaker 3: gonna allow the yelling. I'll see a side. I think
Speaker 3: I will say.
Speaker 2: I learned, don't lie to the police when you know
Speaker 2: you're about to be caught, like what the phone seeing.
Speaker 1: When you're a teenager. Please do not think you're smarter
Speaker 1: than the police.
Speaker 3: You're just not.
Speaker 1: Maybe if you're like hiding text messages inside of an
Speaker 1: app on your phone, it's like they're always going to
Speaker 1: find it, Like Taru is gonna find it. They're going
Speaker 1: to find everything you're talking about. I do applaud the
Speaker 1: changing of the voicemail though. I think that that's like
Speaker 1: pretty smart for like when your parents call.
Speaker 3: That's another lesson.
Speaker 1: If you are trying to sneak out, do that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: switch switch the numbers.
Speaker 3: Switch.
Speaker 1: But then if you get busted, you got to come clean.
Speaker 1: The cops are definitely going to find out. Stabler will
Speaker 1: call your bluff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I guess this is a lesson for
Speaker 2: every episode. But it's like, don't kill Yeah, you're going
Speaker 2: to go to jail. Also, if you steal things from
Speaker 2: the victim, don't wear it to court.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no ring is cute enough to get busted on
Speaker 3: the stand wearing Also class rings. We're not in the seventies.
Speaker 3: If no one needs that, no baby, No, we're not.
Speaker 3: No one needs ring.
Speaker 2: If you have a high school ring, go to therapy.
Speaker 2: Is that something that you're like holding on to and
Speaker 2: enjoying and wearing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if high school was the best days of your life.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry about the true crime. It's like, listen to
Speaker 1: your mother. Don't listen, don't be I don't even don't
Speaker 1: leave your house in the middle of the night with strangers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: please don't do that. That was a poor little Shonda
Speaker 1: Share mistake. I just whoo, keep an eye on teenagers,
Speaker 1: is all I'm saying. Like a teenager who's known as
Speaker 1: having a thirst for blood, that's not good. Let's get
Speaker 1: her into a youth group of some sort. Let's get
Speaker 1: her to some school counseling.
Speaker 2: Also, when the cops come to talk to you about
Speaker 2: your friend's daughter being murdered, maybe be up.
Speaker 1: Stop walking, Stop walking for five seconds, just pause.
Speaker 3: You're wearing a fur can you just at least shed
Speaker 3: one tier? One tier?
Speaker 1: That made me so mad, Like I honestly would gasp
Speaker 1: for a teenager, I don't know being murdered. Hey, I
Speaker 1: cry constantly about things I don't know personally at all,
Speaker 1: And this is like, my daughter will be so bummed. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I've got to go.
Speaker 2: Yesterday, I cried at a montage of Obama being nice
Speaker 2: to children.
Speaker 3: Yesterday I cried at Mawana for the tenth time.
Speaker 1: So I don't know what to tell you, Mike, for
Speaker 1: the threshold for tears is very low these days. All right, now,
Speaker 1: let's find out what would sister Peg do. This is
Speaker 1: our weekly segment where we give you a little resource
Speaker 1: organization piece of reading, something that you can do to
Speaker 1: get more information on a subject that was touched on
Speaker 1: in today's episode. And today we'd like to direct your
Speaker 1: attention to stomp out Bullying dot Org. This was obviously
Speaker 1: an episode that had a lot to do with the
Speaker 1: nightmare cycle of high school bullying. And I think that
Speaker 1: whether or not you have school age children or anything
Speaker 1: like that, it's always great to learn more about how
Speaker 1: we can incorporate, you know, inclusion and equality and diversity.
Speaker 3: Or if you're a.
Speaker 2: Real housewife who feels personally victimized systematically bullied. Yeah, if
Speaker 2: you're also a grown woman that owns a wine company
Speaker 2: for no reason and feels bullied when someone just calls
Speaker 2: you out, you can also reach out to this org.
Speaker 1: Yes, in all seriousness, yeaes stomp out Bullying dot Org.
Speaker 1: Important organization. Please give it a look. We just want
Speaker 1: to touch really quickly on an organization that we shouted
Speaker 1: out a couple weeks ago that one of our guests
Speaker 1: is involved in.
Speaker 3: That's called Prison Fellowship.
Speaker 1: Someone brought to our attention that that group has some
Speaker 1: anti LGBTQ and anti transleadings and that is not something
Speaker 1: we would want to support. So if you want to
Speaker 1: check out our show notes this week, we're highlighting lambdillegal
Speaker 1: dot org, which has a there's an entire list on
Speaker 1: their website of resources for transgender and gender nonconforming prisoners
Speaker 1: and their allies, including the ACLU and a lot of
Speaker 1: other organizations.
Speaker 3: So check out this list at the link in our
Speaker 3: show notes.
Speaker 2: Next week, we're gonna be watching season twenty one, episode seven, Counselor.
Speaker 2: It's Chinatown, an incredible episode, and all episodes, like always
Speaker 2: are on Hulu and Peacock, and I know we get
Speaker 2: messages from people all over the world and they're struggling
Speaker 2: to find it.
Speaker 3: So get on a legal site and get to work.
Speaker 1: And if you're unable to write down what next week's
Speaker 1: episode is, don't forget that. We put it in our
Speaker 1: show notes for today's episode and it will be on
Speaker 1: our Instagram and Twitter pages on Thursday and we will
Speaker 1: see you next week.
Speaker 2: Hi, That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production. If
Speaker 2: you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes
Speaker 2: you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email at
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Speaker 1: please see our show note for sources and more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer and fellow s
Speaker 2: VI super fan Hannah Kyle Craton.
Speaker 1: Thank you to our heroes, Stephen Ray Morris and Annalie
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Speaker 1: theme song. To our artistic Queen, Carly gen Andrews for
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Speaker 1: Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff, Danielle Kramer, and everybody at
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