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Protect our 31 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 3: cyclists and pedestrians because they're people too. 32 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: Go safely. 33 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 3: California from the California Office of Traffic Safety in Caltrans. 34 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: When you pull up to game night, ay, all new Camri, 35 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: but it's actually Bingo Night Minigolf anyone, It's a Camri. 36 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 4: Five, the all new all hybrid Camri Toyota let's go places. 37 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 5: I just think it's fascinating that it's such a fundamental 38 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 5: force in the universe, right, Like it's basically the thing 39 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 5: that builds galaxies and keeps planets moving right and gives 40 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 5: structure to the entire cosmos. 41 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: That's right. On the largest scale, it's actually the most 42 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 1: important force. It's the reason why things look the way 43 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,799 Speaker 1: they do. It's the reason why our planet is round. 44 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: It's the reason why we're on the planet. 45 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 5: It's pretty important, and yet we don't know a lot 46 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 5: about it, right, Like, there's some really deep and strange 47 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 5: mysteries about it. 48 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: On one hand, we have a theory which works really 49 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: really well. On the other hand, we have questions about 50 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: it which seems really really basic. 51 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 5: And not only that, it's very different than all the 52 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 5: other forces of nature. 53 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: That's right, one of these things is not like the 54 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: other ones. 55 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 5: Hi am morhee. 56 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: I'm a cartoonist and I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist. 57 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 5: And this is our podcast Daniel and Jorge explain the universe. 58 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 1: In which a cartoonist and a physicists try to figure 59 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:22,239 Speaker 1: out how to make the universe understandable to anybody. 60 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, and today on the podcast we are examining a 61 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 5: very heavy topic, gravity and specifically why is gravity so. 62 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: Weak and strange. Gravity, as we said earlier, is something 63 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: which controls the structure of the universe. I mean, the 64 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: reason the Solar System looks the way it does is 65 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: because of gravity. The reason the Earth is round is 66 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: because of gravity. The reason we have galaxies is because 67 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: of gravity. 68 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 5: The reason we weigh so much is because of gravity. Right, 69 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 5: it's not my. 70 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: Belt, No, that's because of late night cake eating. 71 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 5: But it's such a fundamental force of nature, right, Like 72 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 5: it's present in our everyday life. We spend a lot 73 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 5: of time thinking about gravity, right, how not to fall down, 74 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 5: how not to drop things, how to go up buildings, 75 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 5: how to go down buildings. 76 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 1: Right, that's right. It seems like one of the most 77 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,040 Speaker 1: important forces. I mean, if you ask people, you know, 78 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: to name a force or what kind of forces the 79 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: experience in their life, gravity is the one that's present 80 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: in their lives. 81 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 6: Right. 82 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 1: You're climbing upstairs, you're fighting gravity, you trip, you fall down, 83 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: you're feeling gravity. You look around you. The shape of 84 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,799 Speaker 1: things is controlled by gravity. And that's why it's particularly 85 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: strange that gravity is the weakest force of all the 86 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: forces we've discovered. It's by far the weakest. 87 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's really strange to hear you say that, Like, 88 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 5: how can gravity be weak? Like, you know, like it's 89 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 5: keeping the whole Earth together, it's making the entire planet 90 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 5: swing around, go in a circle, basically. Right. Without gravity, 91 00:04:58,240 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 5: we would just shoot off into space. 92 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: That's right. It's a really strange situation. And there's other 93 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: things about gravity we don't understand as well. It's really strange. 94 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: It doesn't play well with the other forces. It's very, 95 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: very weak. It's a total mystery to science, except that 96 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,280 Speaker 1: we have a theory which works beautifully right. We can 97 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,799 Speaker 1: calculate exactly how mercury orbits the sun. We can send 98 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 1: things in outer space and know with to millimeter precision 99 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: exactly where they're going to land. We have a working 100 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 1: theory that we can use, right, but we don't understand 101 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 1: it on a conceptual level. We have these basic, deep 102 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,799 Speaker 1: questions about what gravity is and how the universe works 103 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: because of it. 104 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 5: So it's a weird question, and maybe one of the 105 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 5: people hadn't thought about before. So Daniel went out as 106 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 5: usual and asked people on the street, why do you 107 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 5: think gravity is so weak? 108 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: Here's what a random selection of folks who were willing 109 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: to talk to me on a Tuesday morning had to 110 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: say about gravity. 111 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 6: I don't know. 112 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: I should don't know about that, all right. I thought 113 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: it was a pretty strong force. I don't know, but yeah, because. 114 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 5: It depends on the distance and it's long range one. 115 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 5: So that's why we feel it very weak most of 116 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 5: the time. Cool, No, Okay, I have no I'm sorry, 117 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 5: it's not very fruitful. 118 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 3: Hmmm, I have no idea, but I'd be interested in 119 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 3: finding out why. 120 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 5: All right, that was that was pretty good. Most people 121 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 5: weren't surprised when you said gravity's weak. 122 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like if all the questions 123 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: I've asked people, this is the one that flumms them 124 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: the most. You know, people were like, what, I have 125 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: no idea, or they had crazy ideas why gravity must 126 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,719 Speaker 1: be weak. I feel like usually we get one person 127 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 1: who knows what the answer is or has a good 128 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: clue about what's going on. This time, I feel like 129 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: almost everybody was pretty clueless. I mean, one person said 130 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: I always thought gravity was pretty strong, right, which kind 131 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: of sums up the situation, right. Gravity's omnipresent in our lives. 132 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 1: It dominates our experience, and yet it's so weak compared 133 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: to the other really powerful forces we've discovered. 134 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 5: Well, some people a couple of answers were that it 135 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 5: had to do with distance, like gravity gets really weak 136 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 5: with distance. 137 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: That's right, And the problem there is that all the 138 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: forces get weak with distance, like electromagnetism also falls as 139 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: a distance grows. Right, So all of these forces follow 140 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: this one over r squared rule or are as your 141 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: distance from the thing that's giving. 142 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 5: You the force, right, maybe maybe right? 143 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: Maybe yeah, mostly we think, And so that can't be 144 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: the answer, right, because all the other forces have that 145 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: same feature. 146 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 5: So when you say it's the weak is it's not 147 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 5: that it changes over distances differently than the other forces. 148 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: That's right. So maybe we should talk about what the 149 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: forces are and compare them to each other so folks 150 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: can get an understanding of how crazy weak gravity is. 151 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 5: Right. So, Daniel, what are the forces of nature besides 152 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 5: a bad movie with Ben Affleck than Center Bullet. 153 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: Well, I think comedy. Comedy is definitely a force of nature. 154 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: You know, it solves big problems around the world. Now, 155 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: the fundamental forces are electromagnetism, right, that's the one that 156 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: controls electricity and magnetism obviously, and his responsible for the 157 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: cool things like light and lightning and all that cool stuff. 158 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: And then there's the weak nuclear force, which is a 159 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: force which is responsible for radioactive decay of a nuclei, right, 160 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: And the cool thing about electricity and magnetism and the 161 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: weak nuclear force. Is that we actually have shown that 162 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: there are two sides of the same coin. As a 163 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: particle physicist, we refer to them as one force. We 164 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: call it the electro week. So sort of magnetism lost 165 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: out there in the name merger, right, it should be 166 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: electromagnetic week. But nobody voted to keep magnetism in the 167 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: sort of the name of the partners in a law firm. 168 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 5: Nobody lobbied for weak electro. 169 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 1: Or magneto weak force. Yeah, yeah, again, we are suffering 170 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: the fate of some anonymous committee of scientists that get 171 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: to name these things. Right, Who are these people? 172 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 5: Probably some grad student, right or some you know, like 173 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 5: this is really weird, we'll call it this. 174 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. So we have electricity and magnetism, which is a 175 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: single force. We have the weak nuclear force, which is 176 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: really should be combined with electricity magnetism. And then there's 177 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: the strong nuclear force. And this is the one that 178 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: holds the nucleus together. You know, the nucleus is of 179 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: just a bunch of positively charged protons and neutral neutrons. Right, 180 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: it says only positively charged particles in the nucleus. So 181 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: you might think, what it even holds the nucleus together. Right, 182 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: you have all this positively charged stuff should be repelling themselves. Well, 183 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,719 Speaker 1: it's the strong nuclear force, and it does so by 184 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: exchanging these crazy little particles we call gluons, and that 185 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 1: holds the nucleus together, and it's pretty strong. It's even 186 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: stronger than electromagnetism. 187 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 5: Well, let's take a step back. So in the universe 188 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 5: there's stuff. 189 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: There's like, yes, firm that there is stuff in the universe. Yes, 190 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: without reservation, there is stuff. 191 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,199 Speaker 5: I'm glad we saw that question. But I mean it's 192 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 5: like there's stuff that has substance to it, that has 193 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 5: mass to it, or you know that it sort of exists. 194 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 5: And then there's also besides that, how these things interact 195 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 5: with each other, like how they affect each other. 196 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: That's right. There's the matter and then there's the forces. Right, 197 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: the forces affect how they interact with each other. 198 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 5: And that's pretty much the universe. That's like, it's matter 199 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 5: and forces. 200 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, one way to look at the universe is that 201 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: it's particles, right, or you would say matter and their forces. 202 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: In modern particle physics, we think about one level deeper, 203 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: which is we think of quantum fields and quantum fields 204 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 1: are responsible both for matter and for forces. So we 205 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: can talk about that maybe in another podcast. What is 206 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: a quantum field? And how can I get one? You know, 207 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: for lease or rent? 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That's why they're working 280 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 1: hard every day to find new ways to reduce waste, 281 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: conserve natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. Take water, 282 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: for example, most dairy farms reuse water up to four 283 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: times the same water cools the milk, cleans equipment, washes 284 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: the barn, and irrigates the crops. How is US dairy 285 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: tackling greenhouse gases. Many farms use anaerobic digestors that turn 286 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: the methane from maneure into renewable energy that can power farms, towns, 287 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: and electric cars. So the next time you grab a 288 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: slice of pizza or lick an ice cream cone, know 289 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: that dairy farmers and processors around the country are using 290 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: the latest practices and innovations to provide the nutrient dense 291 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: dairy products we love with less of an impact. Visit 292 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: usdairy dot com slash sustainability to learn more. 293 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 5: There are only four kinds of forces. 294 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, there are four kinds of forces. So electromagnetism, weak 295 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: nuclear force, strong nuclear force, and then of course gravity. Right, 296 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: that's the fourth force that we've discovered. 297 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 5: Okay. 298 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: The fascinating thing is that different particles feel different forces, right, Like, 299 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: some particles feel this set of forces. Some particles feel 300 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: those set of force for example, right, particles with electric 301 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: charge feel electromagnetism. Right. The electron, for example, is negatively charged, 302 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: the proton is positively charged. You bring them close together, 303 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: they're gonna pull on each other. They're gonna stuck each 304 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: other together, right, because they have opposite charges. We all 305 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: know that, but you bring a neutral particle nearby, it 306 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: just totally ignores it, right, It doesn't feel it at all. Right, Right, 307 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: It's like it's like somebody's walking through a crowd of 308 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: people shouting, but they have headphones on so they can't 309 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: hear anything. They're totally oblivious to it. 310 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 5: It's kind of like how we talked about in a 311 00:15:55,360 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 5: previous podcast. They're almost like languages or like social media platforms. 312 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 5: Like some people are on Twitter, some people are on Facebook, 313 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 5: but some people are not on this. And so if somebody, 314 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 5: if you're not on Twitter and somebody sends you a tweet, 315 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 5: you're not going to get it. And so it's just 316 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 5: different ways that particles interact. 317 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: That's right. Gravity is the Google plus social media, right 318 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: because nobody uses the trends. It's ancient but powerless. Yeah, 319 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: And so different particles feel different forces. And for example, 320 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: an electron, while it feels electromagnetism because it has a 321 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: negative charge, it doesn't feel the strong force at all. 322 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: It will pass right by a bunch of particles that 323 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: are really tugging on each other with a strong force 324 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: and not be affected at all. Whereas quarks. Quarks feel 325 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: all the forces. They feel a strong force, which is 326 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: how they get pulled together in the nucleus. Remember, protons 327 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: and neutrons are made of quarks. Quarks feel electromagnetism because 328 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: they have electric charge, they feel the weak force. They 329 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: also feel gravity, of course, because they have masks. So 330 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: quarks get their fingers in everything. 331 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 5: They get the feels for everything, They feel everything erect. 332 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: They got the strong feels. Of course, they're really deeply 333 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: emotional part of that. And on the other side of 334 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,120 Speaker 1: the spectrum, you've got things like neutrinos and trinos don't 335 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:14,199 Speaker 1: have electric charge, so they ignore all electricity and magnetism. Right, 336 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: they don't interact with light. They're invisible. They pass right 337 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: through anything that They ignore electromagnetic bonds, so they pass 338 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: through most materials. They don't feel the strong force. The 339 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 1: only way they interact is with the weak force. And 340 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: the weak force is pretty weak, which is why neutrinos 341 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 1: can mostly just pass through matter unaffected. 342 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 5: So we have four fundamental forces, right, and gravity is 343 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 5: one of these forces. And so when you say that 344 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 5: gravity is weak, you actually mean it's weak compared to 345 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 5: these other three forces. 346 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: That's right. And so the ranking is the strong force 347 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 1: is the strongest, right, so that one is actually well named. Congratulations, 348 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: you know anonymous group of scientists. Yeah, we should be 349 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 1: called the as of twenty eighteen, currently known to be 350 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:04,880 Speaker 1: the strongest force force. Right after that comes electromagnetism, and 351 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 1: you know, we know that force's pretty powerful. You stick 352 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 1: your finger in the socket, you're gonna feel the wrath 353 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: of electromagnetism. Right, It's not an unfamiliar feeling. 354 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 5: Right, try to stick your finger in anything, you feel it, right, 355 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,360 Speaker 5: because it's electromagnetism is the force that keeps you from 356 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 5: basically passing through the table or passing through your car. 357 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,880 Speaker 1: Right, that's right, because electromagnetism is the basis of chemical bonds, right, 358 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: and chemical bonds are really the thing that form the 359 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,400 Speaker 1: structure of your body. Right. You think of your body 360 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 1: is like a bunch of particles, but it's held together 361 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: by all these forces. It's like a chain link fence 362 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,439 Speaker 1: binding together these little particles that prevents you from passing 363 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: through something else. Yeah, So we got the strong force, 364 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: and then electromagnetism and then actually the weak nuclear force. Right, 365 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: this is the force that like powers neutrinos and radioactive decay. 366 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: It's much weaker than electromagnetism and much weaker than the 367 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 1: strong force. 368 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 5: Even weaker than the weak is gravity. 369 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,919 Speaker 1: That's right. If you make a list like strong force, electromagnetism, 370 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: in the weak force, then you should leave like one 371 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: hundred blank pages, and then you get to gravity. Because 372 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 1: when we compare these forces, we put things like an 373 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 1: equal distance apart, and we compare the strength of the forces. 374 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: Gravity is ten to the thirty six times weaker than 375 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: the weak force. That's ten with thirty six zeros in 376 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: front of it. 377 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 5: But isn't that sort of a matter of units or scale? 378 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 5: Do you know what I mean? Like, it's much weaker, 379 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 5: but only if you compare apples to apples, right, or 380 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 5: just oranges. 381 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 1: That's right, But put two protons next to each other, right, 382 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: h Two protons have a certain amount of mass and 383 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 1: a certain amount of electric charge, and the force of 384 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: their charges is going to be much much stronger than 385 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:44,679 Speaker 1: the force from their masses. 386 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 5: Oh I see. 387 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 1: So yeah, if everything was much much more massive, then 388 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: there would be stronger gravity. But you can compare these 389 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: things apples to apples by comparing them at you know 390 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: the same distance and the same basic unit of interaction. 391 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 5: Right, But what if you take an apple put it 392 00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 5: next to another apple? 393 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: Well, I think you can do that experiment. Nothing's going 394 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 1: to happen because gravity is so weak. Right. You don't 395 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: see two apples like pulling themselves together on the counter, right, 396 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,679 Speaker 1: And though built in apple collider, you know the apples 397 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: are not drawn to each other. Gravity is a super 398 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: weak force, and you can see this yourself. Right, you 399 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: can do an experiment where you counter the entire gravitational 400 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 1: force of an enormous celestial body like the Earth. Right, 401 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: take a small kitchen magnet and use it to hold 402 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: up a nail, and think about what's happening there, right, 403 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: You have the nail is being pulled down by every 404 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: single rock in the Earth. It's pulling with all of 405 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: its gravity. But a tiny little kitchen magnet totally overcomes that. 406 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 5: It can lift a nail even though it's pulling, it's 407 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 5: being pulled down by the whole entire planet Earth. 408 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: Right exactly. Now, imagine a magnet the size of the Earth, right, 409 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 1: I mean that would be that would be extraordinarily powerful. 410 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,159 Speaker 1: And so you have basically like a gravitational blob the 411 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 1: size of the Earth still pretty ineffective compared to electromagnetism. 412 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:03,640 Speaker 5: Mmmm, so it's weak if you sort of compare it 413 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 5: by object, Like you said, if you take a proton 414 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 5: and put an extra proton, the force are going to 415 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,120 Speaker 5: feel from electromagnetism is so much bigger than the force 416 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 5: of gravity. They're going to feel towards each other the 417 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,360 Speaker 5: same with like two electrons or two quarks and things. 418 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,399 Speaker 5: So in the scale of like the particles that we know, it's. 419 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: A really weak force, that's right, exactly, And yet and 420 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: yet it seems to dominate, right. That's a bit of 421 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: a puzzle, Like, on one hand, it's super duper weak, 422 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 1: and we're telling you that it hardly counts for anything. 423 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 1: On the other hand, it's responsible for the structure of 424 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 1: the Solar System, man for the galaxy, and it's the 425 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: reason the universe looks the way it is, right, right, 426 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: And so that can be confusing to people, Like how 427 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: do you reconcile those two things in your head? 428 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, Like, why doesn't the Earth feel an electromagnetic force 429 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 5: with the Sun, which it would be so much bigger 430 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 5: than the force of gravity. 431 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, it would be pretty shocking, And that's actually 432 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: the reason is gravity is different from the other forces 433 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,880 Speaker 1: and that it can't be canceled out. Right, if there 434 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 1: was some huge electrostatic difference between the Sun and the Earth, 435 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: like a bunch of positive charges there and a bunch 436 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 1: of negative charges here, it would create such an enormous 437 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: force that it would be very quickly balanced. Like that's 438 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: what lightning is. Right. When there's a charge differential between 439 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 1: clouds and the grounds, it doesn't take that much before 440 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: those charges want to rearrange themselves to a lower energy configuration. 441 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: They rush down to the ground, or they'd rush up 442 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: to the clouds, or they jump the cloud cloud to 443 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: balance themselves out. Because you have two kinds of charges, 444 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,640 Speaker 1: you have positive and you have negative, so you can 445 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 1: find an arrangement where basically everybody's happy. It's an equilibrium, right, 446 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: But that's not true for gravity. 447 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 5: Okay, I get it. So for example, if the Earth 448 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 5: was every particle on Earth had a positive electromagnetic charge, 449 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 5: and every particle in the Sun had a negative electromagnetic charge, 450 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 5: there would be a humongous pull from electromagnetism, pulling the 451 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 5: Earth into the Sun. 452 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, we'd be toased pretty quick Yeah. 453 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 5: Yeah, would be huge. Even the opposite. If we were 454 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 5: all positive and the Sun was all positive, we would 455 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 5: get shot out of the Solar system very quickly. 456 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: That's right. And that's why you know, early days of 457 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: the Solar system being formed, you have these gases and 458 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: the gas and dust coalescing and very rapidly things neutralize, right, 459 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: because anything that feels an electrostatic force to something else 460 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: is going to find the opposite charge and they're going 461 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: to coalesce and they're going to make something neutral. Right. 462 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: That's why most of the things around you are neutral, right, 463 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: Most of the elements are neutral, because any deviation from 464 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: neutral results in a powerful force to neutralize it. 465 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 5: So, thankfully the Earth is made out of both like 466 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 5: equal amounts of positive and negative particles, right, that's right. 467 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 5: Thankfully we're sort of balanced electromagnetically, and so even if 468 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 5: the Sun was all positive, we would look like neutral, 469 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 5: like a neutral ball to the Sun. 470 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. Where on large scales the Earth is neutral, right, 471 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: I mean, there might be some residual positive or negative 472 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 1: charge depending on the solar wind, et cetera. But basically 473 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: the Earth is neutral, and so the largest force of 474 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 1: the Earth feels is the gravity from the sun, even 475 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: though gravity is super duper weak, right, it doesn't take 476 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: a lot to counteract gravity. But it's the only player 477 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,360 Speaker 1: left because everybody else is sort of pair it up 478 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: and danced off for the night, and gravity's just there left, 479 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,640 Speaker 1: hold in the bag. And gravity can't be balanced, right. 480 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: You feel gravity if you have any mass. Right, there's 481 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: only positive masses, no such thing as a negative mass 482 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: to give anti gravity. 483 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 5: Wow, well, let's keep going, but first let's take a 484 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:49,640 Speaker 5: quick break. Okay, So that's how gravity is so much 485 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 5: weaker than the other forces. So how's it different than 486 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 5: the other three forces of nature? 487 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: There's like no end to waste. The gravity is weird, 488 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: you know, there's no end to like the puzzles of 489 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: gravity is fascinating. 490 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 5: Bottomless pit. 491 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: That's right, it's a black hole of questions. And one 492 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: of my favorites is just that we have no way 493 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 1: to sort of fit gravity in with the way the 494 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 1: universe works according to everything else. You know, we talked 495 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 1: earlier about how we have particles and we have forces 496 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: or quantum fields equivalently, and that's a really successful way 497 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 1: to describe the universe. You know, we have the Large 498 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 1: Hadron Collider to explore these things really high energies. And 499 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,159 Speaker 1: we've understood all sorts of things using this theory, but 500 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 1: that theory is used as quantum mechanics. So the way 501 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,360 Speaker 1: we describe interactions, you know, the way we talk about 502 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 1: two electrons repelling each other, or the way lightning is 503 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: formed or anything, involves passing quantum particles back and forth. 504 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:46,640 Speaker 1: And that's just not true for gravity. 505 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 5: What does that mean? Passing particles back and forth? Like 506 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,880 Speaker 5: when like if I have two magnets and they're attracted 507 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 5: to each other, they're not. They're not It's not like 508 00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:00,199 Speaker 5: an invisible telekinesis pulling on each other. They're actually swapping particles, 509 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 5: and I can see that is that kind of what 510 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:02,120 Speaker 5: do you mean? 511 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: That's exactly what I mean. That the way two things 512 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,199 Speaker 1: interact via some force is by exchanging particles. And so 513 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: for example, electromagnetism, right, is the force behind a magnet. 514 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 1: And the way electromagnetism works, we think at a sort 515 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: of microscopic particle level, is that there's a particle that 516 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: transmits that force, that sends sort of the information back 517 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: and forth between two things that are feeling it and 518 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: in the case of electromagnetism, that particle is the photon. Right, 519 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: the particle is also a packet of light. So each 520 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: of the quantum forces that we talked about before, electromagnetism, 521 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 1: the weak force and the strong force, each of them 522 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,479 Speaker 1: have a particle we associate with it. And that's not 523 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: just like some name tag we put on and say, hey, 524 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: you get this one, you get this one. We think 525 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: that that's the particle that's responsible for making the force work. 526 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: So when two electrons come near each other, how do 527 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: they repel each other? How does that actually happen? Well, 528 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: we think that they send photons out right, the electric 529 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: field of a moving electron, right, and accelerating electron generates photons, 530 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 1: and those photons interact with the other electrons, and so 531 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: basically the passing messages back and forth using these quantum particles. 532 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 5: So gravity is weird because we don't know that there 533 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 5: is a quantum particle being exchanged when two things get 534 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 5: attracted gravitationally. 535 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,400 Speaker 1: That's right, So we have this great framework. We say, oh, 536 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 1: maybe all forces are quantum mechanical fields interacting with each other. Right, 537 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 1: Let's apply that to the electromagnetic field. Yeah, it works. 538 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: Let's apply that to the weak force. Yeah it works. 539 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: Let's apply to the strong force. Ooh, cool, it works. 540 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: Maybe this is something deep about the way the universe works. 541 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: Let's apply it to gravity. Uh. Oh, it doesn't work right, 542 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: So what does that mean? What does it mean when 543 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: I say it doesn't work? Well? For a theory to work, 544 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 1: it has to provide predictions for experiments. You have to 545 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 1: be able to say, okay, theory, what would happen in 546 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: this configuration if I shot a proton and another particle. 547 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: Predict what would happen, and then you can often do 548 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,479 Speaker 1: the experiments and compare it right. Well, when you do 549 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: that for gravity, you try to form a quantum theory 550 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,479 Speaker 1: of gravity, it doesn't work. You get nonsense answers. You 551 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: get answers like infinity right, or things disappear, or it 552 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: just it doesn't mathematically function Like, there's no way to 553 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: build a theory of gravity that we've discovered so far 554 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 1: that works, that actually explains the way these things happen. 555 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: There are a few candidates out there there pretty far 556 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,199 Speaker 1: from being a functional theory of quantum gravity, things like 557 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: loop quantm gravity or string theory, but the basic problem 558 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:37,159 Speaker 1: is that quantum mechanics and general relativity, which is our 559 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: best theory of gravity, do not play well together and 560 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: we have no functioning quantum theory of gravity. 561 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 5: So does that mean that we don't have the right 562 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 5: theory or is that gravity is just not quantum in nature? 563 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: That's exactly the question we don't know the answer to. 564 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: Right In one hundred years from now, somebody will know 565 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: the answer to that, I hope, and they'll look back 566 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: and they'll wonder, you know, why did those guys see 567 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: the clues? But we don't know. It could be that 568 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: there is a quantum theory gravity, we're just not smart 569 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: enough to think it up yet, right, Like the right 570 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: person hasn't been born yet to put the math together, 571 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: or maybe it requires a different kind of math that 572 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 1: we're using. Right, there's some assumption we're making that's a mistake. 573 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 5: Or maybe just giving it a wrong name, like maybe 574 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 5: it should be gravit tunis or gravitinos gravitas. That's taken exactly. 575 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: That's definitely the problem. That's step number one, when we 576 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: made a mistake in step number one, when we could 577 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: define the particle. The other option, of course, is that 578 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: maybe gravity is not a quantum force the way the 579 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: other forces are. Right. The other forces we call them 580 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,959 Speaker 1: quantum forces because they're well described by quantum mechanics. But 581 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: gravity is kind of different. I mean, the current theory 582 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: we have a gravity general relativity. It doesn't like to 583 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: describe gravity as a force, right, describes gravity instead as 584 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,479 Speaker 1: a bending of space. It says that when you have 585 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: mass somewhere in space, space no longer becomes straight, becomes bent. Right, 586 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: things move in curves and circles. 587 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 5: And it's not like an actual just a mathematical nuance 588 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 5: or a mathematical perspective. What really confirms is it is 589 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 5: the idea that gravity can affect things that don't have mass. Right, 590 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 5: That's how we know it's more than just a force 591 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 5: between things that have mass. It actually like affects space 592 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 5: for things that don't have mass. 593 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: Right, that's exactly right. So if you shoot a photon 594 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 1: through space that has mass nearby, the photon will not 595 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: move in what we consider to be a straight line, right, 596 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: It'll find a path through this bent space that involves 597 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 1: basically curving. And this is what Einstein predicted with his theory, 598 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: and they saw it, you know, and you can see 599 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: in space. It's called gravitational lensing. You can see photons 600 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: get bent by heavy objects, and it's because, as you say, 601 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 1: the heavy objects are bending space itself. 602 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 5: Right, It's not like gravity is pulling the photon because 603 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 5: the photon doesn't have any mass. 604 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: Right, that's right, the photon doesn't have any mass. 605 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, So that's how it's different. Like gravity seems to 606 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 5: affect things that don't have sort of its fundamental property, 607 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 5: you know, like electrominetic forces can affect something that does 608 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 5: not have an electric charge. 609 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: That's true. 610 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 5: Gravity can affect thing everything else, right. 611 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a pretty deep insight there, Not that for 612 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: a cartoonist, not at all. Yeah, that's a fascinating way 613 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: to think about it. I think that's totally correct. Yeah. 614 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 1: And so if gravity is instead of being a force, 615 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 1: if it's a way we change the shape of space itself, 616 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: then maybe that's why we don't have a quantum theory 617 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: of it. Right. And that's amazing and it's fantastic and 618 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: it's exciting. And another reason why we have a hard 619 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: time bringing these two things together is that quantum mechanics, 620 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: the theory we've developed only works so far in flat space. 621 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: That is if there's really heavy stuff nearby, we don't 622 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: know how to do those quantum calculations. We can basically 623 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: only do quantum mechanics in places where there isn't really 624 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: strong gravity. 625 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 5: So wait, it's a quantum physics doesn't work in reality basically? 626 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 5: Is that what you're saying? Like, it doesn't work in 627 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 5: the space that we actually live in. 628 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 1: Well, it works basically everywhere except for close to black holes. 629 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 1: M Right. You need basically a black hole have enough 630 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: gravity to break down quantum mechanics because it's when when 631 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 1: space gets really distorted that you start to see the 632 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: effects of gravity on space, and then it becomes comparable 633 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: to the strength of other stuff, and that's when that's 634 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: when quantum mechanics breaks down. Yeah, quantum quantum field theory 635 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: works basically what we call flat space, whereas gravity bends space. 636 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 5: Wow, so earlier when we categorize gravity as part of 637 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 5: these four fundamental forces, maybe that's just the wrong approach. 638 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 5: Maybe you know, do you know what I mean? Like, 639 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 5: maybe we shouldn't be categorizing these four things as one 640 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 5: category of quote forces. 641 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: That's right. It could be could be that there is 642 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: no quantum theory of gravity as a fundamental force because 643 00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: it isn't one. Yeah, and it's just a feature of space, right, Absolutely, 644 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 1: it's one possible explanation. But then we still need a 645 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,239 Speaker 1: way to make quantum mechanics work in bent space, right, 646 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 1: And we still need to understand how to make our 647 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 1: theory of general relativity play well with quantum mechanics, because 648 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: we think quantum mechanics describes the universe, right, and general 649 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 1: relativity is not a quantized theory. It's it's continuous, right. 650 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: It treats space and everything as if it's infinitely divisible, right, 651 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: it's not a quantum theory at all, in fact that 652 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: it came about before quantum mechanics was even invented. And 653 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 1: so while the basic tenets of it how it distorted 654 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 1: space are probably correct, i mean, been verified to zillion 655 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: degrees of accuracy, it doesn't feel like it can be 656 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 1: a fundamental description of nature because it's not quantum mechanical. 657 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 5: So, like we want to call it a force because 658 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 5: it seems to move things like all the other forces, 659 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 5: but it's maybe it's not a force. Maybe it's just 660 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 5: kind of like some other weird property of space. 661 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. You know, maybe we've been trying to put 662 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 1: a round peg into a square hole all these years. 663 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 5: A gravity peg in a quantum hole. 664 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. And there are other ways that 665 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: people are trying to solve this problem. Like one way 666 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,360 Speaker 1: is thinking that maybe gravity is a fundamental force, but 667 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,720 Speaker 1: it just works a little bit differently from the other forces. 668 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,839 Speaker 1: For example, people think about how the universe might have 669 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: additional spatial dimensions, you know, like instead of just being 670 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 1: able to move in three directions, maybe there's like four 671 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,279 Speaker 1: or five six dimensions that you can move in. And 672 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 1: folks who are interested in that should listen to our 673 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:26,840 Speaker 1: podcast on extra dimensions. 674 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 6: No. 675 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 5: Yeah, we did a whole episode on extra dimensions, but 676 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 5: we didn't sort of get into this particular topic. So 677 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:36,360 Speaker 5: tell us how extra dimensions might explain why gravity is 678 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 5: so weak. 679 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,879 Speaker 1: Yeah. The idea is that maybe gravity isn't so weak. 680 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 1: Maybe gravity is just as strong as all the other forces. 681 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,839 Speaker 1: But if there's a whole other set of dimensions out 682 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 1: there that's ways directions that think can move, it might 683 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: be that gravity is the only thing that feels those dimensions, right. 684 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 1: It might be that those dimensions are invisible to electromagnetism 685 00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: and to the weak force into the strong force, but 686 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,839 Speaker 1: to gravity, and what that means is that gravity might 687 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: be basically leaking out into those other dimensions. You know, 688 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 1: we talked about how the farther away you get from something, 689 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: the weaker the forces. So like Mercury feels the force 690 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 1: of the Sun's gravity much more strongly than Pluto does. Right, 691 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,320 Speaker 1: irrelevanti of whether or not you call it a planet, 692 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 1: it doesn't feel gravity very strongly. And that's because it's 693 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 1: further from the Sun, right. I mean that goes like 694 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,879 Speaker 1: one over are squared or are is the distance it's 695 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 1: one of our squared because we have three dimensions. If 696 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:32,439 Speaker 1: we had six dimensions, it would be one over R five, right, 697 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,320 Speaker 1: which falls much more rapidly. So if there are additional 698 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 1: dimensions out there, okay, and only gravity feels them, then 699 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 1: that might be the reason why gravitational force falls so quickly. 700 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 1: Maybe gravity's actually just as strong as everything else when 701 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 1: you get really really close, But then these extra dimensions exist, 702 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 1: and most of gravity leaks out into those other dimensions. 703 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 5: Oh, sort of like between you and me, there's not 704 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,359 Speaker 5: just the three dimensions between you and me Ei, there 705 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,880 Speaker 5: are other secret hidden spaces kind of between you and me. 706 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 5: Are these other dimensions. 707 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 1: Exactly other ways for gravity to spread out, all right. 708 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 5: And so gravity would be like just as strong as 709 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 5: all the other forces. But it's just flessing its muscles 710 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 5: in these other spaces that we can't see or feel exactly. 711 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, if somebody's at the center of 712 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 1: a crowd and they let go a really stinky far right, 713 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 1: the people next to them they smell it strongly, and 714 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: the people further away they smell it much more weakly, 715 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 1: and people outside don't smell it at all. 716 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 5: All right, now imagine the farts really suddenly. But let's 717 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 5: let's let's go with it. 718 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 1: Hey, I'm trying to make this successible. You know, this 719 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:37,760 Speaker 1: is something everybody canna. 720 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,759 Speaker 5: Appreciate trying to make way, I get it cut it. 721 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 1: But if there was somewhere else for that far to go, 722 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 1: you know, if it could move not just sideways, but 723 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: also could float up right, so you had a really 724 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,880 Speaker 1: tall room in the far floated up, then people wouldn't 725 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 1: feel it as much because most of the far would 726 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,319 Speaker 1: dissipate into the upper corners of the room. And so 727 00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,239 Speaker 1: gravity might be the same way. It might be that 728 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: you know, for the first millimeters, so the first centimeters, 729 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:06,239 Speaker 1: so gravity gets very weak, very quickly. It falls off 730 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,440 Speaker 1: really rapidly, and that then you know, at normal distances 731 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,799 Speaker 1: like a meter or ten meters or whatever, you don't 732 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,799 Speaker 1: feel those other dimensions anymore because the other dimensions only 733 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 1: activate it really really short distances. This is the theory 734 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:19,759 Speaker 1: people came up with, and we don't know if it's real. 735 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:21,840 Speaker 1: You know, we tested it so far. It seems like 736 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 1: gravity works the same way for galactic scales and for 737 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 1: earth scales, and for microscopic scales. It seems to always 738 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: fall off at the same rate as a function of distance. 739 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 1: So nobody's ever seen any evidence of these extra dimensions. 740 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 1: But it's a fascinating theory and it's you know, it's 741 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 1: one that would give kind of a natural explanation for 742 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 1: why gravity would fall off so quickly and why gravity 743 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 1: is so weak. It wouldn't explain all these other things. 744 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,360 Speaker 5: But in fact, people sort of try to use gravity 745 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 5: to see if there are other dimensions, right. 746 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. It would be a really cool clue, 747 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 1: right if And that's a fascinating way that science has done. 748 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: You know, you try to look at everything around you 749 00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 1: and see if you can fit it all into one framework. 750 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,840 Speaker 1: Can I use this one set of ideas to describe 751 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:08,440 Speaker 1: everything right onto one part of concepts? Yep, that's right 752 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:16,640 Speaker 1: in my fart theory of the universe. The best possible 753 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 1: way I think to unravel this is to actually go 754 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,400 Speaker 1: visit a black hole. Because quantum mechanics and general relativity 755 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: tell you very different things about what's happening inside a 756 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,759 Speaker 1: black hole. Right, as we said before, general relativity tells 757 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 1: you it's an infinite testimal dot of almost infinite density. 758 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: Quantum mechanics says, you know, the universe is quantized first 759 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,440 Speaker 1: of all, so you can't have infinite testimal dots. And 760 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: also this sort of a minimum size to stuff, right, 761 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,359 Speaker 1: and you can't have all that stuff compressed in such 762 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 1: a tiny little area. And so if you could see 763 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 1: inside a black hole, you would learn a lot about gravity. 764 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:50,520 Speaker 5: So what would be the plan. You would go into 765 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,400 Speaker 5: a black hole, you would observe and discover how the 766 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,439 Speaker 5: universe works, and then and then you'd be stuck there. 767 00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:58,320 Speaker 1: That's right. They would have to send you a Nobel 768 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,919 Speaker 1: prize into the black hole after just assume you'd figured 769 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,959 Speaker 1: it out and cause the l prize into space into 770 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 1: the black hole. Anybod who's listening, please do not go 771 00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:10,920 Speaker 1: into a black hole. Please please do not go into 772 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 1: a black hole. But you know, we don't need to 773 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:14,839 Speaker 1: visit black holes. We could try to create them here 774 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:15,360 Speaker 1: on Earth. 775 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 5: That sounds like a great idea. 776 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, doesn't that sound like a great idea. I mean, 777 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:24,319 Speaker 1: I'm excited make it. Yeah, let's create a black hole 778 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:28,320 Speaker 1: and study it. Right, if gravity gets really really powerful 779 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,520 Speaker 1: when you get to really short distances because of this 780 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,799 Speaker 1: extra dimension theory, then it might be that if you 781 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 1: shoot two protons together really really hard and they get 782 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 1: really really close to each other, that you can create 783 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,799 Speaker 1: a super duper mini extra cute, little fuzzy black hole. Right, 784 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 1: I'm trying to make it sound like a cozy thing, not. 785 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,839 Speaker 5: A yeah, you're trying to sell it, right. 786 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,040 Speaker 1: And so before we turned on the Large Hadron Collide 787 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,719 Speaker 1: about ten years ago, people thought maybe by smashing these 788 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 1: protons together, we could actually create black holes and we 789 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,839 Speaker 1: could study them. We can reveal the deep secrets of gravity. Right, hmmm. 790 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 5: So then the idea would be to try to make 791 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 5: them at the Large Hadron Collider and just can of 792 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,839 Speaker 5: see what happens mm hm, like, does it tell us 793 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,160 Speaker 5: something about gravity or quantum physics at the same time. 794 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:16,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. By seeing how often they're made and how 795 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,040 Speaker 1: strong they are and what they turned into when they decay, 796 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,479 Speaker 1: we could understand something about the way black holes work, 797 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 1: and that would have been really powerful. But unfortunately or fortunately, 798 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,719 Speaker 1: depending on how feel above black holes. We haven't made 799 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 1: any black holes at the Large Hadron Collider that we've discovered. 800 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 5: But maybe isn't it true that maybe you've made them 801 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:35,400 Speaker 5: but they evaporate. 802 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,040 Speaker 1: Yes, these black holes would be very short lived. But 803 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,000 Speaker 1: you know, everything we make at the Large Hadron Collider 804 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:41,839 Speaker 1: is really short lived. These things last for like ten 805 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:43,840 Speaker 1: to the negative thirty seconds or ten to the negative 806 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,600 Speaker 1: twenty three seconds. We're pretty good at seeing short lived 807 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,360 Speaker 1: stuff because it usually blows up into other things, and 808 00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,920 Speaker 1: a black hole would have a really unusual signature in 809 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 1: our detectors. It would be pretty clear to see if 810 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:54,920 Speaker 1: we had made them. 811 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,440 Speaker 5: Okay, but short of going into the black hole or 812 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:03,080 Speaker 5: detecting farts in dimensions, we may not know in the 813 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 5: near future what what makes gravity so different? 814 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:07,799 Speaker 1: That's right, it's going to take some work. I mean 815 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,719 Speaker 1: the other direction, is theoretical, is to build up a 816 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,799 Speaker 1: theory of quantum gravity sort of from the bottom up. 817 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,680 Speaker 5: Like start from the beauty of math and physics and 818 00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:20,440 Speaker 5: then try to build it up to our level exactly. 819 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,640 Speaker 1: And that's that's a wonderful way to do, is to say, like, 820 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,720 Speaker 1: maybe the universe works in this way, this most basic 821 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,520 Speaker 1: fundamental nature, and build it up from there and see 822 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,000 Speaker 1: if you can describe the universe that we see around us. 823 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:36,120 Speaker 5: Wow, all right, well that's pretty shocking to think gravity 824 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,920 Speaker 5: is such a place, such a big role in our lives, 825 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:43,000 Speaker 5: and yet it's it's like the weakling in the universe, right, 826 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,879 Speaker 5: It's like, imagine, imagine if if gravity was stronger, life 827 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,280 Speaker 5: would be a lot more chaotic, right and crazy? 828 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:51,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. We would be closer to the Sun and 829 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,600 Speaker 1: everything would feel more intense. It's fascinating to me that 830 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,879 Speaker 1: gravity has been a mystery to physics for hundreds of years. 831 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,520 Speaker 1: I mean, it was the focus of Isaac Newton's you know, 832 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,200 Speaker 1: like hundreds of years ago people working on gravity. And 833 00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,200 Speaker 1: still today, even though we've made so much progress in 834 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,919 Speaker 1: terms of gravity, we still have so much, so many 835 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,320 Speaker 1: basic questions about it that we don't know the answers 836 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,879 Speaker 1: to not even the really beginning of how to answer them. 837 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,760 Speaker 1: To me, that's fascinating. Gravity is such a rich source 838 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 1: of mystery for physics and for everybody. 839 00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:23,080 Speaker 5: Wow, all right, cool, I think it's maybe time to 840 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,239 Speaker 5: push down this question. Thanks for joining us. 841 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:35,879 Speaker 1: If you still have a question after listening to all 842 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 1: these explanations, please drop us a line. We'd love to 843 00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,600 Speaker 1: hear from you. You can find us at Facebook, Twitter, 844 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:45,359 Speaker 1: and Instagram at Daniel and Jorge that's one word, or 845 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:58,440 Speaker 1: email us at Feedback at Danielandorge dot com. 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