1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowood Show on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: My guest today is Stafford Pelmieri Sebert. Stafford is founder 3 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: and managing partner of Fidan Strategy, on the board of 4 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: Thomas and Hutton, a privately held engineering firm, and the 5 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: secretary of the Utah Republican Party. Hi, Stafford, so nice 6 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: to have you on. 7 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 2: Thanks Carol. I'm happy to be here. 8 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: So I also know that you have a one year old, 9 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: that right, I do, So my question, my question has 10 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: to be how how how do you do all of 11 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: that with a one year old? 12 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 3: I have a really good support network at home named Zachary, 13 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 3: my husband, who is wonderful. But you know what they say, 14 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 3: you when you want to get something done, you give 15 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 3: it to somebody. 16 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's right. 17 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: So how did you get into being the secretary of 18 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: the Utah Republican Party? 19 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 3: So it actually started right around when I moved to 20 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,119 Speaker 3: Utah about four years ago. I wanted to get back 21 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 3: involved in politics. I'd been in New York where Republicans 22 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 3: are just irrelevant at this point. 23 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 1: And I. 24 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,839 Speaker 3: Was looking for opportunities to just get involved. Thought maybe 25 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 3: I could do some phone banks. I could you know, 26 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 3: help some local candidates. I'm the kind of person where 27 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 3: when I decide I'm all in, I'm all in. And 28 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 3: so when I decided to move to Utah, I was 29 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 3: all in. And so first I ran for a county 30 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 3: party level role. 31 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 2: I was. 32 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 3: I met my county party chair, and she got all excited. 33 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 3: She liked my former boss, Bobby Jindall. And then I 34 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:45,320 Speaker 3: wound up when I got married, moving out of that county, 35 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 3: and so I couldn't run for something else in that county, 36 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 3: and I got approached about challenging the incumbent party secretary, 37 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 3: which I did, and then I ran for reelection this spring, 38 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 3: and so I'm in my second term. 39 00:01:58,360 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 2: Nice. 40 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: So how does it feel running the Republican Party in 41 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: a red state? A really red state? I mean even 42 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: in Florida where I live. I've become a very red 43 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: state in the last few years, but I live in 44 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: a purple district. I think in general, people think, you know, 45 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 1: it could someday swing blue again, but Utah feels reliable. 46 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: Does it feel like that to you or do you 47 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:23,119 Speaker 1: feel like you have to fight every day? 48 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 3: I wouldn't say we have to fight every day, but 49 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 3: I would say that in a state where Republicans have 50 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 3: been in control for so long, there is the risk 51 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 3: of complacency, and so a lot of the battles actually 52 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 3: happen in the primary and then in the last five years, 53 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 3: last ten years, but particularly the last five years, we've 54 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 3: had a ton of California moving into Utah and that 55 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 3: is definitely changing the politics here significantly. So we are 56 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 3: not sitting on our laurels. Part of why I ran 57 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 3: for re election is that we had not had consistency 58 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 3: in the party leadership. It was sort of like total 59 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 3: recall every two years, and the party chair Rob Axson, 60 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 3: and I felt very strongly about creating more infrastructure and 61 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 3: that we needed to have strength and consistency and continuity 62 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 3: over time. And so this is the first time in 63 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 3: a long time that we've had two members of the 64 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 3: four person leadership team who've served more than one term 65 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:20,359 Speaker 3: in a row. 66 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 2: Nice. 67 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like that's also really important, the continuity 68 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 1: that doesn't exist in a lot of places. You came 69 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 1: there from New York, but before that you were in Louisiana. 70 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 2: Yes, that's right. 71 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: What was your role with Bobby Jindall? 72 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 3: So I actually spent almost six years in Bobby Jindall's administration, 73 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 3: and he and I really got along. It became very 74 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 3: obvious about a year in when I became the policy 75 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 3: director to our chief of staff that he could stick 76 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 3: me in a room with Bobby's policy brain and I 77 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 3: could come out and explain in English what it was 78 00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 3: that Bobby wanted to do. 79 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 2: Is very smart. 80 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: Politics to English is always a good yes. 81 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: Definitely, you can't win if you can't explain it. 82 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 3: And Bobby is an incredibly intelligent person, and I loved 83 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,359 Speaker 3: working for him. I loved how his brain thought. I 84 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 3: loved that he held us to a really high standard. 85 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 3: So I actually I started working for him when I 86 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 3: was twenty four. I was recruited down there to be 87 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 3: his education policy adviser. 88 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,359 Speaker 2: I was working at a think tank in DC, and 89 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 2: I got this. 90 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 3: Cold email and I didn't even know what an education 91 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 3: policy advisor was at the time, and so I went 92 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 3: to a mentor and I asked him. 93 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 2: What is an education policy advisor for a governor? And 94 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 2: he explained it to me. 95 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 3: And what sounded really exciting about it was that I'd 96 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 3: actually be in the trenches implementing the policy, so both 97 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 3: coming up with it. But also doing it, and I 98 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 3: am very much an operations person, and I have learned 99 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 3: that over time. I love policy, it was my first love, 100 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 3: but I'm definitely a doer, which I think is reflected 101 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 3: and sort of what I I've. 102 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 2: Done since then. 103 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 3: But I went from being education policy advisor to policy director, 104 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 3: to assistant chief of staff, a deputy chief of staff, 105 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 3: and then Bobby actually at the end of the administration, 106 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 3: appointed me to his cabinet where I was the Commissioner 107 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 3: of Administration, which is like the state's chief administrative and 108 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 3: financial officers. So I ran the eighteen hundred person agency 109 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 3: that runs the back office of the state. So I 110 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 3: had payroll, state lands, procurement, the state budget, things of 111 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 3: that nature. 112 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 2: It's a big job. 113 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: How do you leave that? 114 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 2: Well? 115 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 3: The administration ended, so I really wish on a three yes, 116 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 3: it was the most fun job I've ever had, and 117 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 3: I wish I had been in that seat longer. There 118 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:41,799 Speaker 3: were some light bulbs that went off when I really 119 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 3: got into the weeds of understanding how the Louisiana budget worked, 120 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 3: and I set off a bunch of light bulbs with 121 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 3: our legislative leadership, and I wish I'd been able to 122 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 3: go through another session with them. In all the ways 123 00:05:56,080 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 3: that Louisiana has ranked fiftieth on everything, UTAHS number one, 124 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 3: and Louisiana's budget is kind of at the core of that. 125 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 3: It's a it's a series of lock boxes. They've kind 126 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 3: of done it to themselves, basically, and then you add 127 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 3: to it that it's a relatively poor poor student as well. 128 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 3: But just a difficult situation and and but one of 129 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 3: the most fun, exhilarating positions I've ever had. And uh yeah, 130 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 3: I absolutely loved it, and I totally would have stayed 131 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 3: had had the administration not ended. 132 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: What was your path to all this? Did you always 133 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 1: want to be in politics? 134 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 2: I think I've always been interested in it. 135 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 3: I realized from a very young age that government can 136 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 3: shape into the to the good or to the bad 137 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 3: a lot of our day to day experiences. And I 138 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 3: think my first exposure to that actually was when I 139 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 3: was I think I was about twelve, and I was 140 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 3: working for a CPA in our apartment building in New York, 141 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 3: and I was above the threshold of maybe I. 142 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 2: Was a little bit older. I'm no child labor here. 143 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: I was I was going to say, twelve years old 144 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: working for a CPA. 145 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 2: That is a driven, driven young lady. I'm right. At thirteen, 146 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 2: I was pretty young. 147 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 3: I know, I wasn't in high school yet, but I 148 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 3: was organizing all his receipts for his clients, and he 149 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 3: paid me. And then my mom took taxes and so 150 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 3: I don't think I had to pay taxes officially, but 151 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 3: she took taxes out of my out of my paycheck. 152 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 2: For my room board to learn. 153 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 3: And that taught me, Uh, that taught me quite a 154 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 3: lot about the the uh unilateral power of government that 155 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 3: could come in, you know, with the the power, the 156 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 3: all powerful hand and punning out of your pocket. 157 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: So right, we're going to take a quick break and 158 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: be right back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. So what 159 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: would you have done if this hadn't worked out? What 160 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: would the plan be have been? 161 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 3: Honestly, I I always wanted to well when I got 162 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 3: to when I got to college, I wasn't sure what 163 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 3: I wanted to do. I went to a liberal arts 164 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 3: school where the world is your oyster and you can 165 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 3: kind of pick your own adventure which has its pros 166 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 3: and its cons. And I got exposed to education policy 167 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 3: when I was a sophomore I actually had a friend 168 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 3: who was the Teach for America recruiter on campus, and 169 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 3: I wound up not doing Teach for America, but I 170 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 3: did the Education Policy Concentration of which is kind of 171 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 3: a weird program. And I went to Yale undergrad and 172 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 3: it's not a degree, it's a program that you do 173 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 3: kind of on the side. And what I realized in 174 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 3: going through that program is that I had really been 175 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 3: blessed with an incredible education. I also learned things like 176 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 3: there were students that were recruited for sports at Yale 177 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 3: that literally had not taken the requisite courses to do 178 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 3: freshman level work at Yale, and that felt deeply unfair 179 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 3: that there are children that don't have that door open 180 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 3: for them, that not by any doing of. 181 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 2: Their own, but just because of what that they wound 182 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 2: up going to. 183 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 3: And then when I did my student teaching, I had 184 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 3: a mentor teacher who and I kid you not, this 185 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 3: was an Honors Us history class and here I am, 186 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 3: as the little apprentice. I'm supposed to be teaching the 187 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 3: class on behalf of this guys that I can learn 188 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 3: how to be a teacher, And. 189 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 2: He has the kids copying out of the textbook and 190 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 2: I was. 191 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 3: So I go to the head of department and I say, 192 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 3: could I go sit in on another class? You know, 193 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 3: I just love to see, you know what, another teacher, right, 194 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 3: he goes, I know, I can't fire him, he's tenured. 195 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 2: And what she knew, Yeah she knew. 196 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 3: Oh she totally knew. And that was where my eyes 197 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 3: really opened to the policy implications and the structural implications 198 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 3: of how our education system is created and organized. And 199 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:52,959 Speaker 3: so I decided not to become a teacher, that I 200 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 3: actually wanted to go do policy work instead. And so 201 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 3: when all of my classmates were running around campus in suits. 202 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 2: Looking, in my opinion, at the age of twenty two, 203 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 2: a little. 204 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 3: Bit ridiculous, applying for you know, consulting and imaking jobs, 205 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 3: I decided I wanted to go to d C and 206 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 3: work for a think tank. And so I applied, you know, 207 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 3: to all the think tanks, and I actually got lucky. 208 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 2: I had I had cojotes. At that age. 209 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 3: I cold emailed the education scholar at AI whose name 210 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 3: is Rickass, whom I'm still friendly with to this day. 211 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 3: I actually ran into him randomly in the Salt Lake 212 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 3: City or for the other cool loths ago and he 213 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 3: was going to speak at an education policy conference at 214 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 3: the School of Management, which is Yale's business school, and 215 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 3: he's like, let's sit down after lunch, and I said, okay, 216 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 3: So I, you know, walk up to the business school 217 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:45,679 Speaker 3: campus and I sit down with this guy after lunch, 218 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 3: and turns out AI has this very regimented application process, 219 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 3: but he gives me the names of all these other 220 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 3: think tanks that I should apply to that are much smaller, 221 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:55,839 Speaker 3: and so I wound up working at a place called 222 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 3: the Thomas B. Fordham Institute, which was an incredible blessing 223 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 3: because I was in a much smaller environment where I 224 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 3: was able to get involved with a lot of different 225 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 3: projects much earlier and much sooner. But that's how I 226 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 3: got into education policy, and then sort of the rest 227 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 3: is history from there. In terms of how I wound 228 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 3: up in Bobby Jendall's administration. 229 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: It's funny because a lot of people, when I ask them, 230 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: like how they got to where they are and different 231 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: questions about their pats, they say, I got lucky, And 232 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: like a lot of the time that luck sounds like 233 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 1: you put in the work, you took chances, you sent emails, 234 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: you know, put yourself out there. So I would say 235 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: to anyone listening, I'm not sure Stafford got lucky. I 236 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: think she's pretty smart. 237 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 2: Luck is made, luck is made. I didn't make your 238 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 2: own luck exactly. 239 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't need to ask for unless you asked 240 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 3: for it exactly. 241 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 2: Yes. 242 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: Were you always a conservative, like growing up in New 243 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 1: York City doing taxes? 244 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 3: Yes, I think part of it was being taxed at 245 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:53,559 Speaker 3: the age of twelve, I'll do it. 246 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:55,679 Speaker 2: I had. Part of it was that. 247 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 3: And this is something that my husband and I have 248 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 3: talked about for our own son, was that I did 249 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 3: a lot of volunteering. 250 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 2: And I really credit my mom with this. 251 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 3: So on every the church we went to, at every holiday, 252 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 3: they would serve the homeless, and so we would go 253 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 3: serve the homeless before we ate our own Easter or 254 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 3: Christmas or Thanksgiving meal. And you know, here I am 255 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 3: a little six year old walking around refilling the cranberry 256 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 3: sauce on all the tables, and of course I start 257 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 3: I started having questions with my guests and are starting 258 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 3: having conversations with them rather and I learned a lot 259 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 3: about poor choices but also poor circumstances that resulted in 260 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 3: homelessness and resulted in situations that brought somebody into the 261 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:41,319 Speaker 3: church to get. 262 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 2: A free meal on a holiday. 263 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 3: And so it became very obvious to me that structures matter, 264 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 3: and that again that government can set up systems that 265 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 3: create opportunity and growth or that crush it. And New 266 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 3: York City, I think, is a really good example. 267 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 2: Great example a city that has set itself up to fail. 268 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 3: And that was very obvious to me when I was 269 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 3: there again as an adult, that the city was just 270 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:13,319 Speaker 3: making extraordinarily poor choices. 271 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 2: And it's hard why I don't look there anymore's depressing. 272 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: I root for New York, but they keep just digging 273 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: that hole ever deeper. I'm not sure when they dig 274 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: themselves out, or if they do in my lifetime. I mean, 275 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: I hope so, but I just don't see it. 276 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 3: I was just going to say, I think there was 277 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 3: a turning point in twenty seventeen when the city Council 278 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 3: decided to legalize things that are should be illegal, and 279 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 3: that really from my perspective, because the policy didn't go 280 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 3: into place until twenty eighteen. So they decriminalized turnstile jumping, 281 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 3: smoking pot on the street, and public urination and defecation, 282 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 3: I think defication. 283 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:50,079 Speaker 2: I know, it's public curination. 284 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 3: And about I mean, if we have to wonder, you know, 285 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 3: we have to wonder, right, And about a year later, 286 00:13:57,679 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 3: you know, first it was just at night you'd see 287 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 3: somebody behind a car, and then it was like not 288 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 3: at night anymore, and then it was in the middle 289 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 3: of the day. And broken windows theory is a real thing. 290 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 3: And so when you create a situation of lawlessness, people 291 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 3: will break the law. And so and even to this day, 292 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 3: my aunt, who is almost eighty seven, was telling me 293 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 3: that the other day she got screamed at on the 294 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 3: subway because somebody wanted her to open the door so 295 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 3: that they could basically wann the subway for free, and 296 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 3: she wouldn't do it, and she got caught, you know, 297 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 3: called a bunch of curse words. And you know, she's 298 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 3: four foot eleven years old, and it's like, why do 299 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 3: you live in this place anymore? I don't right anyway, Yeah, 300 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 3: it's it's tough. It's it really is that broken windows. 301 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: The fact that you know, municipalities keep discovering that when 302 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: you arrest criminals for small crimes, you find criminals for 303 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: bigger crimes. 304 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 2: It's something that they keep. 305 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: Learning over and over again. And I'm like, you could 306 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: just look at the Giuliani and Bloomberg years in New 307 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: York City and have that lesson for you, but they 308 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: choose not to do that. So you do all these things. 309 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: You really are involved. It's just in a number of 310 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: different ways. What are you most proud of in your life? 311 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 2: Showing up? 312 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 3: I am a shower upper. I'm the kind of person 313 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 3: where when I move to. 314 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 2: A place, I get involved. 315 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 3: I decide that I'm going to make the place where 316 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 3: I am the best place that it can be. 317 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 2: I show up for my friends. 318 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 3: I'm really blessed to have these incredible groups of friends 319 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 3: from different periods of my life. When my husband and 320 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 3: I were getting married and we were putting together our 321 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 3: wedding and vite list, it got very long because I 322 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 3: had big secret the Louisiana friends and the New York friends. 323 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 2: And the business school friends and Utah friends, and. 324 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 3: I think, you know, it's important that those friendships that 325 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 3: you treasure. Life is really about the people that you 326 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 3: do life with. And I choose very carefully the people 327 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 3: that I want to do life with, and then those 328 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 3: people stay on that list. So you know, you go 329 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 3: through phases and seasons where you don't get to see 330 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 3: people as often as you as you want. But ultimately, 331 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 3: I think the test of a true friendship is not 332 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 3: seeing someone for a long time and just picking up 333 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 3: right where you left off. 334 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: I love that being a shower upper. I have to 335 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: work on that. I have to be more of a 336 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: shower upper. I have to especially, you know, I think 337 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: after moves is exactly when you should throw yourself into 338 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: being that person. And I think I don't do that 339 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: as well as I should. I'm going to take that 340 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: lesson here and do better. I hope. I love that 341 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: give us a prediction five years out can be about 342 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: anything at all. 343 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 344 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 3: So, I don't know if you've heard of the company 345 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 3: called figure dot Ai. They make humanoid robots that work 346 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 3: in factories. And then also I think Tesla has actually 347 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 3: been bulk ordering them to try to replace all the 348 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 3: humans on their factory lines. 349 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 2: So I think in five years, and. 350 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 3: I always laugh when I see these memes on Facebook 351 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 3: where it's like it's you know, AI is good to 352 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 3: take your job, and it's a mom and the mom's. 353 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 2: Like when when? 354 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 3: So I think in five years we will be buying 355 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 3: humanoid robots, like we buy massage chairs. Wow, five years, 356 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 3: five years, they will be a luxury item at Costco. 357 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:20,719 Speaker 2: What are you going to have yours? Do laundry folding 358 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 2: and number one top of the list. 359 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 3: Yes, definitely. We make so much laundry. I didn't think 360 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 3: that children. I mean, the clothes are so small, Like. 361 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 2: How do you make that much laundry? It just just 362 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 2: piles up. 363 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 3: I just can't deal with the amount of laundry that 364 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 3: I now have to wash and fold. 365 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 2: So at least it's cute at that age. 366 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,159 Speaker 1: After a while, they're still making that much laundry and 367 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: it's not adorable anymore. And you're like, I need a 368 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: robot for this. 369 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,440 Speaker 2: That's right, that's so right. Yeah, that's top of my list. 370 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: Laundry for sure. I can't think of that many other things, though. 371 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: I always when people say this, I'm like, what else? 372 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: What else do we want robots to do for us? Oh? 373 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 3: My goodness, I would there's so I mean, I want 374 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 3: a butler in my house. Basically, I've actually thought about 375 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,120 Speaker 3: hiring sort of like a life manager to make easier. 376 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 2: But I don't know. I don't think this is going 377 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 2: to happen in five years. 378 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 3: But I'm excited for when robots can also drive cars 379 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 3: because I'd love to have to. 380 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 2: Pick up my dry cleaning. Yeah, go for free. 381 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 3: Store for me, make turn of you know the order, 382 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 3: and have them bring it out to your car. 383 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 2: I would have it feed the cat. We also have goats. 384 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 3: I'd have it go feed the goats and check on 385 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 3: the goats and fill out the goat's water. 386 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 2: We have bees, I'd have it go check on the bees. 387 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 2: It can't get. 388 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 1: Bees and goats, and you have like three jobs. 389 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:43,360 Speaker 2: How do on bees and goats? So this is why 390 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 2: we have bees and goats and not other animals. 391 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 3: We want to add chickens, but all three of those 392 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 3: are relatively low maintenance. 393 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 2: Like we can leave the goats for a couple of 394 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 2: days and like they're fine. So you know, they bees, 395 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,239 Speaker 2: the bees just do their own thing. That's yeah. You 396 00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 2: just check on them once a week. 397 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 3: And then the harvesting the honey, you to dedicate a 398 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:02,959 Speaker 3: weekend or two to actually doing that, and then you 399 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 3: get honey, you get propolists, you get wax, so you 400 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 3: actually there's a bunch of different byproducts that you get 401 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,679 Speaker 3: from as you get from bees, but that that was 402 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 3: a new edition last year, and that has actually been 403 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 3: a really fun we we had we had some friends 404 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 3: that we made here and uh slightly older friends who 405 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 3: were kind of mentors to us. And the husband didn't 406 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 3: really want to do bees anymore. 407 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:30,199 Speaker 2: So he gave us all his equipment. So bees. 408 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 3: Hey, Yeah, they used to make like you can make 409 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 3: your own chapstick with the bees wax and like give 410 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 3: it for Christmas gifts like this is my this is 411 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 3: my dream is uh making all my own Christmas gifts? 412 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 2: That is so cool. 413 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: You're definitely making me feel bad about my very minor, 414 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 1: you know, daily accomplishments. 415 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 2: I need. 416 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: I need to get some goats and some bees and 417 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: really start bringing it. But I've loved this conversation, Stafford, 418 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: I've loved getting to know you a little bit. Better 419 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: leave us here with your best tip for my listeners 420 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 1: on how they can improve their lives. 421 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:08,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a difference between keeping your word and honoring 422 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 3: your word. It's not possible to actually keep your word 423 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 3: one hundred percent of the time, and to pretend that 424 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 3: you're going to actually keep your word one hundred percent 425 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,959 Speaker 3: of the time is a form of dishonoring your word. 426 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 2: But to honor your word. 427 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 3: Is to tell someone right away when you can't keep 428 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 3: your word, and then obviously keep your word as much 429 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 3: as you can. 430 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 2: But I think knowing the distinction between those two things 431 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 2: is the root of integrity, and I think it's also 432 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 2: the root of not making excuses for ourselves when we 433 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 2: can't keep our word because it's going to happen. 434 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 3: Life is busy, But the best thing you can do 435 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,880 Speaker 3: is to say something right away when you can't keep 436 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:48,239 Speaker 3: your word the way you said you. 437 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 2: I love that she is, Stafford. 438 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,399 Speaker 1: Tell Meary Sievert, thank you so much for coming on 439 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: the Carol Marco which show. We loved having you. 440 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you.