WEBVTT - Chapter 7 | Lucky Tuna 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:05.160 This series include sensitive and potentially distressing topics, including sexual 0:00:05.160 --> 0:00:22.759 assault and abuse involving children. Listener discretion is advised. Mark 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:26.920 Baker was that rarest of brand named lawyers, A delightful 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:30.360 man who was loved by all who knew him. Baker, 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:32.839 who died suddenly in a sleep in the summer of 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:36.960 twenty twenty five, was a maker of miracles in court. 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:41.639 His life's work was freeing the wrongly convicted men who 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:46.120 spent decades drafting appeals from prison while writing to anyone 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:49.880 they thought might help them. One of those men was 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:54.880 Anthony to Pippo. In twenty thirteen, after a second conviction 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:58.360 for the murder of Josette Wright, Anthony reached out to 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:02.280 Baker through his stepdad. By then Big Larry was once 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:05.560 again in a position to help his step son. Baker 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:09.319 wasn't bothered by the two convictions. If anything, they moved 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:15.520 him to take the case. While reporting the story in 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:18.319 twenty twenty one, I'd meet Baker for lunch at his 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:23.319 favorite watering hole, the Duncan Donuts on Johnson Avenue in Riverdale. 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:27.160 There over the tune of fish they only made for him. 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:30.720 He'd spend the first ten minutes cracking punchlines in Yiddish, 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:35.160 ribbing me for marrying a blonde Chisa, and then he'd 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:38.319 sit and explain how he'd used a DA's trick to 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:44.840 win Anthony a third and final trial. In criminal law, 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:49.080 there's something called Malineau rule. It allows the prosecution to 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:52.240 bring a prior bad act to show that a defendant 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:55.840 has a criminal mo What Baker did was flip that 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:58.960 rule on its head. He went to New York's Court 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:02.120 of Appeals. He wanted to raise the history of someone 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:07.360 who wasn't on trial. That's someone, of course, being Howard Gombered. 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:12.960 This was, to put it mildly, a moonshot plea. It 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:16.960 had never succeeded in post conviction hearings, not New York, 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:21.760 at least. Even Baker's partner, Mark Agnifolo, is a skeptic. 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:24.560 I might even have said this on like, you're wasting 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:27.240 your time. That's never gonna work. I mean, this is 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:33.239 a horrible, horrible murder. It's old news. And Baker says, no, 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:36.120 I'm right, I'm right. This is a sound legal theory. 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:38.919 It doesn't matter that it's never really been done before. 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:41.160 And he just pushed it and pushed it. 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:45.280 In twenty sixteen, Baker argued his brief before the seven 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:47.040 panel judge in Albany. 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:54.440 Hear ye, hear ye, hear ye, as. 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:55.519 Baker had a half hour to persuade them that the 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:59.800 judge at Pippo's retrial denied him due process by blocking 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:01.000 new Gombert proof. 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:06.160 He knew the deceased, he had a relationship with her. 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:08.920 He had prior knowledge of all his victims. They were 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:12.560 also found with clothing stuff down their throat, most were 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:16.320 threatened with death, and two of them were also taken 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:20.000 into the woods, just like in this case. Put that together, 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:21.200 there's a painting. 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:24.480 The Putnam DA thought so little of Baker's gambit that 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:27.000 he'd sent a junior assistant to oppose him. 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:30.200 May it please the court. My name is David Bishop, 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:32.840 and I represent the people on this matter on appeal. 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:34.160 I think. 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:38.880 But as the assistant DA argued against allowing the gombered 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:41.760 evidence to be heard a trial, a judge on the 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:42.600 panel cut in. 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:46.960 He knows her, He's driven in the car with her. 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:50.760 He calls the the people have been prosecuted for death suckers. 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:52.960 He's not a murderer, at least said now, as far 0:03:53.000 --> 0:04:00.640 as I know, really well, after. 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:01.600 Forty five minutes the panel had learned saying that issue 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:06.000 they're ruling and writing. Anthony waited and waited to see 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:08.280 if he'd get the chance to argue his case again 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:09.520 in front of a jury. 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:15.800 I mean, it's happened, but I mean less than between 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:19.200 fifty seventy five times. Maybe maybe in the United States, 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:22.200 you know that somebody's gotten a third chance. 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:26.320 For months, he woke up every day burning to know 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:30.080 if the court's ruling had been posted more times a 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:32.719 day two in the morning, twenty afternoon, I had my 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:35.080 mom get on the computer, go to the Court of 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:37.159 Appeals page and let. 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:38.760 Me know it. 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:39.560 Does it happen yet? 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:44.960 And woo, man, it must have been solid sixty days 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:48.400 And on one day there it was. 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:55.640 In March of sixteen. His mom checked the court's website. 0:04:56.120 --> 0:05:00.279 The judges had just posted their ruling that morning to 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:08.400 Pippo would get a third trial. The BUTTNADA set a 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:12.400 date for that September. Baker and his trial partner Mark 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:16.239 Agnifilo were incensed. There was no way that could prep 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:20.640 for it in that short a timeline. 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:24.560 Unless, of course, so I go to see Anthony Depippo 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:28.880 for the first time, and I go alone. Baker can't 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:31.320 go forever reason, and I sit down with him, and 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:33.160 I spend five hours with him. 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:37.640 That's Baker's partner, Mark Agnifilo. He'd driven up to meet 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:40.719 his client and assess him face to face. 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:48.000 And he talks NonStop for five hours. I've been around 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:49.880 the block. I mean, I worked on the nine to 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:52.599 eleven investigation. I was a process, I was a federal 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:55.680 pro I was a state promising I know, bullshit from 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:56.440 the real thing. 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:58.960 And this was just as real as real can be. 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:02.640 And so I sat there humbled, you know, listening to 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:06.440 Anthony Depippo talked about his life in his case and 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:11.360 his twenty year quest to vindicate himself, not just in 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:16.040 hopes and dreams, but in individual pieces of evidence that 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:20.200 he has meticulously assembled into binders. 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:25.360 Over the decades. He'd compiled eleven binders of facts, entitled 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:29.239 them the Gombert Books. Taken together, they told the history 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:33.000 of a one man crime wave Gombert's a tax on Girls, 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:34.800 dating back to the early eighties. 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:38.160 And I sat there, I was like, remember that the 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:40.440 old Maxell commercial, the guy sits in the chair on 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:43.400 the you know, the sound of the you know audio 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:44.760 tape makes his hair blow back. 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:46.240 That was me with DiPippo. 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.440 Agnifilod barely cracked volume one when he saw he had 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:55.120 a secret weapon. Sure, his client looked like a hijacked 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:58.720 tractor trailers, but he was also illegal savant. 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:03.400 He's been doing eighteen hours a day every day for 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:06.760 twenty years, and he is an encyclopedia. 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:10.280 He knows this case better than any other human being 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:11.200 can know this case. 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:13.720 And I say to him at the end of that meeting, 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:15.840 I said, we're gonna try this thing as soon as 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:21.920 we can, because I have you and they don't. I 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:24.320 am gonna sit with you every day, and you're just 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:25.640 gonna teach me this case. 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:57.160 You my madness, laughter, my sorrows, them are endless valley. 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:32.400 This is the Devil's Quarry. 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:38.560 In the run up to Anthony's third trial, his two lawyers, 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:43.920 Mark Baker and Mark Agnifilo, agreed on the division of labor. Agnifilo, 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:47.520 the born showman, would do all the talking, while Baker, 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:51.760 the back room scholar, would take copious notes and strategize 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:56.440 lines of attack. That first day of trial, Agnifilo surveyed 0:08:56.480 --> 0:09:01.160 the courtroom. He took a deep breath, rubbing his palms together. 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:03.920 It was about to be showtime. 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:11.520 There's no greater adventure than a trial. It's it's an adventure. 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:15.000 It's the best adventure you can have inside, you know, 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:17.319 it really is. I mean, to have any better adventure, 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:19.520 you have to be in the mountains. And so if 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:23.520 you're into it, and this is exhilarating and fun, and 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:25.440 it's going to be so exciting. Yeah, I know it's 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:28.400 a murder case, you know, but just come with me 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:29.960 and we'll get there. 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:30.520 You know. 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:33.199 That's that's how. 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:36.439 You engage a jury. They're really responsive to that. And 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:40.160 if you're their tour guide, they're Therein. 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:47.040 Robert Tendy, the DA went first. He stuck to the 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:50.920 button and playbook in nineteen ninety seven, pending all the 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:55.720 county's hopes on a single witness, Denise Rose. She was 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:59.800 the only one who hadn't recanted her story. Here's that 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:02.000 Nilo's summing up Tendee's statement. 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:07.640 This is an easy case. We have an eyewitness. It 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:11.200 happened in a van. There was an eyewitness to all 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:14.200 of these events. She's going to tell you what she saw. 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:18.200 Two decades had passed since Rose first signed a statement 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:23.280 accusing Anthony of killing Josette, taking the DA's prompts Now, 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:27.560 she rehashed the old narrative, the impromptu party at the 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:31.480 Sigo station, the game of spin the bottle gone horribly 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:34.720 wrong in the van, the rape of Josette by first 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:39.280 Andy an Anthony. Then the boys disappear into the dark 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:45.360 with Josette's body in return without her. Then it was 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:49.400 Agnifilo's turn with Rose. Of all the criminal lawyers I've 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:54.480 watched in action, Agnifilo is easily the most relaxed. His 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:58.920 cross examinations are like dinner party chats, warm and convivial, 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:03.600 even little aimless, just two folks getting to know each other. 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:08.600 As he crossed Denise, he shocked everyone, including her, by 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:12.800 gliding past the details of the crime. Instead, he delve 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:16.959 deeply into her actions after the fact. Did she call 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:21.520 the cops that night after she got home? No, well, 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:23.640 what about calling in an anonymous tip? 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:24.880 No? 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.599 Did she tell her parents about what she just witnessed? 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:29.600 No? 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:32.880 Did you wake up the following morning and do any 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:37.240 of those things? No, said Denise, I didn't. 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:41.640 One of the things that you have to figure out 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:45.200 as a lawyer, What does this person really want to say, 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:48.200 and what she wanted to say she wanted to talk 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:51.480 about when she was younger and she was in love 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:54.480 with Di Pippo, and Pippo was, you know, maybe in 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:55.120 love with her. 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:59.360 So Agniffolo asked Denise what it was like dating Anthony, 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:03.280 about how much fun they'd had together, And. 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:06.440 I'm asking that she doesn't know where I'm going. I'm 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:08.439 just like, and so you would be happy. It's I'm 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:11.080 sure happiness because you guys had fun together. If you 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:13.600 have a great sense of humor, I do, and so 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:17.800 does he, does you know? And this one, this is 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:20.800 seven months after you're saying you saw him kill a 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:23.920 twelve year old, right, yeah about that? And I think 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:26.560 that the Drews just looking at her like this is 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:30.600 just crazy. 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:33.520 Nanny asked Denise if she and Anthony had had sex 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:38.640 after the night of Josette's murder. Yes, Denise admitted. And 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:41.840 you wanted to have sex with him, he asked her. Yes, 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:45.440 she admitted, And in fact, you said the day after 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:49.640 the murder you went to Anthony's house to hang out. Yes, 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:50.600 Denise admitted. 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.240 So she wanted to tell the truth and this is 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:58.800 the truth. But the truth is just absolutely inconsistent with 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:01.040 having seen him kill a twelve year old. 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:06.120 Then Agnifolo asked her about pack Costaldo, the cop who 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:08.960 dragged her down to the station over and over without 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:12.480 a parent or a lawyer present. On the stand, now, 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:15.600 Denise admitted that Castaldo would just pop over to her 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:16.680 house on weekends. 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:21.560 Why why is Detective Castaldo coming to your house? Did 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:22.959 you always talk about police business? 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:23.120 No? 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:25.960 Okay, well, now we're off and running. 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:31.600 Agniffolo faced the jury when he asked her about those visits. 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:34.400 This kind of culture of pressure. 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:38.559 You know, bad things happening in small police interrogation rooms. 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:41.600 You know in Putnam County. You know these are young 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.600 ne'er do well kids. You know they can make their 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:49.160 lives a lot easier if they're friends with the cops, 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:51.679 or they can make their lives a lot harder if 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:52.000 they're not. 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:56.200 But Castaldo had done more than just pop by for 0:13:56.280 --> 0:14:00.200 his little chats with Denise. He'd also threaten her was 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:23.960 twenty five to life, and now, having gutted roses credibility, 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:28.480 it was time for the main event. How we're Gombert. 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:31.880 When you took it all together, there was just this 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:35.960 mountain of evidence as to what had happened, and how 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:40.640 they could get something so wrong because all the indications 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:44.360 are that Gombert's guilty of this crime, and he was 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:48.040 never called to account, And so he called. 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:51.840 Gombert's victims to the stand. For complex reasons, only two 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:56.200 were permitted to testify. First, up with Sarah Linley, who 0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:58.840 was seven when Gombert attacked her in the woods off 0:14:58.840 --> 0:14:59.760 Squats Pond. 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:04.840 My biggest thing with telling my story is I don't 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:10.440 like upsetting other people. And it's hard because it's a 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:12.040 hard story to tell. 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:17.000 In a voice that wobbled and sometimes broke. She told 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:18.880 the jury what Gumbert had done to her. 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:22.560 So as I was telling it, I remember looking over 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:26.040 and there was a woman who was crying, and it 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:30.120 hurt me in that moment more seeing her crying because 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:32.720 of what she was hearing than what I was saying, 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:36.720 because I'm numb at that point to it. And then 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:40.400 looking over and seeing Anthony and it just felt so 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:43.600 fucking heavy, like is this even going to work? Am 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:44.160 I helping? 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.760 The courtroom changed? You know when they testified, there was 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:57.240 just a shift in the kind of emotion coming from 0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:00.240 the jury, and the emotion fell in the courtroom. 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:06.120 After Sarah left the stand. Rachel went up next. She'd 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:10.240 been dreading this day for weeks and months. Actually, she'd 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:11.720 been dreading it for decades. 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:17.560 Anthony's trial was rough. They went in deep with the 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:18.880 abuse with Howard. 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:20.760 They were just very deep. 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:24.480 Sobbing as she spoke. She told the jury what she'd 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:28.440 suffered at Gomber's hands as a child, the rapes and 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:32.240 the beatings, and the death threats he'd levied that secret 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:36.040 spotty take her in those woods. And then Rachel told 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:39.520 them about Gombert and Josette. How we'd met the child 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:43.280 at Rachel's mother's place, how we'd threaten Rachel that if 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:47.400 she ever left Carmel, he'd replace her with Josette and 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:51.120 start by asking her to babysit his daughter, and how 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:55.360 she Rachel stood up to him that day, ordering him 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:59.440 to stay away from the girl. From his seat beside Agnifilo, 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:03.880 Anthony could barely watch. Even the jurors averted their gaze. 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:09.000 A few were openly weeping. I do remember. 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:17.359 Trying to disassociate, and I was just listening for the key, 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:18.359 the keystoff. 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:22.480 It was about this point that Josette's mom jumped up 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:26.120 and stormed out of the room, up. 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:28.760 And left slammed the door in front of the jury 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:32.200 as she did not listen to a single thing, and 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:34.879 that really made it worse for her because another jury 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:37.879 is like, this is the mom not listening, Maybe we 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:38.600 should listen. 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:44.439 And then those jurors heard from the original witness, the 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:48.040 one who told the first big lie and in doing so, 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:53.480 ruined the lives of two of his friends. Domin Neglia, 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:56.720 you recall, was the oversized kid who'd been busted in 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.879 the car with Anthony and Andy, the kid who'd fit 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:04.200 Putnam cops story after story to get them off his back. 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:08.000 He tried once before now to take it all back, 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:13.520 but the judge at Anthony's first trial blocked him from testifying. Now, 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:17.840 facing threats of perjury from Buttnam prosecutors, he took the 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:22.240 stand and finally told his truth about being stalked and 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:26.840 brutalized by Pat Castaldo, about getting fired from his job 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:30.320 because of their pressure, and how he fed those two 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:34.199 cops lie after lie so they would quote leave me 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:37.959 alone and stop bullying me, stop coming to my school, 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:43.959 stopped coming to my work, then stop hitting me. Several 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:47.040 of the jurors were sobbing when Big Dom left the stand. 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:50.200 One of them turned to Anthony with a look. 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:51.480 We're with you. 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:58.320 Stay strong, you're going home. But neither Anthony nor Agnifilo 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:00.080 allowed themselves to trust it. 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:04.040 You thought he was just gonna sit in jail until 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:04.960 became an old man. 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:10.400 And so Agnifilo pulled out every stop, even turning to superstition. 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:14.400 Every day we had a tuna fish sandwich on toasted 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:19.440 rye with letton tomato, like it's a it's a you know, superstition, 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:22.320 Like once you do it and like oh wow, Like 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:24.080 I had the tune of sandwich and today was a 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:24.720 pretty good day. 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:26.359 Then you have to have it the next day and 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:28.159 that that's a pretty good day. Then you're done. You 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:31.520 having tune fish sandwich to latrialins. So that's what we did. 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:35.720 So each day Agnifilo ate his tuna fish sandwich, then 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:39.800 went back to court and dismantled the DA's case until 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:43.840 the sixth of October twenty sixteen, when he called upon 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:47.760 the very last witness in the month long trial. The 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:49.960 oft mentioned pack Castaldo. 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:54.760 So that night I prepped for my Castaldo cross and 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:58.160 I say to myself, it's possible. I sum up tomorrow, 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:02.320 I go no it won't happen. He's not going to 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:04.560 make me some up. I mean, I'm going to Castaldo's 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:06.679 going to be on the stand all day, you know, 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:08.720 I'm not going to sum up tomorrow. 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:13.840 Agniffolo launched into his cross of Castaldo. Most of it 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:17.359 concerned his treatment of the witnesses and the case. The 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:22.600 jury had just heard. Those witnesses described Castaldo's coercion and trickery, 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:26.840 but under oath, Castaldo denied all of it. 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:29.560 He denied it, it didn't happen. 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:35.640 Castaldo came across as just, you know, not honest, not 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:39.560 a good police official, you know, not someone that the 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:40.440 jury trusted. 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:44.760 He was withholding he was cagey, and. 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:48.680 That's the case detective, Like, that's the lead case detective 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:51.720 doing these things, and that's how the evidence in the 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:55.720 case ends. And so I thought that was really what 0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:57.879 I think the jury was left with that this is 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:02.520 this is not the court of this case is I 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:04.520 was gonna say corrupt. It's such a strong word, but 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:07.600 is corrupted. You know, the core of the case is corrupted. 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:17.160 It took six hours and every ounce of Agnifilo's energy 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:20.800 to crack Castaldo's credibility. 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:24.439 When he sat down I said, how you feel his 0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:27.200 hair is standing up like I can get my car 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:28.320 and crossed into a tree. 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:32.600 And just as Agnifilo is catching his breath and the 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:36.120 judge turns to Agnifilo and says, all right, you could 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:37.200 do your closing. 0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:42.399 Now, and Agniffhilo is like, what I just cross examined 0:21:42.440 --> 0:21:44.159 the biggest witness in this case. 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:50.720 His hair is standing up. No break, judges, you're up. 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:55.400 That was late in the day and Agnifilo hadn't prepped. 0:21:56.040 --> 0:21:59.720 He had to close his case now to the jury, you. 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:03.600 Know, oh, man, like this is this is all, this 0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:07.200 is for all the marbles, you know, this is not 0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:10.680 just one of those things like I have to win. 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:14.680 So I stand up and I just start talking. 0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:20.000 I mean, it's like he's such a prawl that he 0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:20.480 got it. 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:21.600 He got it. 0:22:26.000 --> 0:22:29.800 Agniffolo got up and talked for an hour. The next morning, 0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:33.639 the DA gave his clothes and then the jury retired. 0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:34.680 Aweigh the facts. 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:41.679 It was just so emotional and so just intense, like 0:22:41.760 --> 0:22:44.159 now I'm done. I don't talk to the jury ever again. 0:22:46.160 --> 0:22:49.080 If you had to say to me in thirty five 0:22:49.160 --> 0:22:53.960 years of doing this, what's the tired? 0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:55.520 Isn't the right words. 0:22:55.560 --> 0:23:00.760 What's the most beaten up you've ever been as trial lawyer? 0:23:00.800 --> 0:23:02.040 It's actually that moment. 0:23:03.320 --> 0:23:06.240 Thankfully, no one was so tired they hit a tree. 0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:11.320 All right, it's time to deliberate. So, because now I'm 0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:14.199 in custody, I have to go through the door with 0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:20.480 the guards, and so I had to sit in this room. 0:23:20.520 --> 0:23:25.360 In this room again, had that steel toilet, stainless steel toilet, 0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:29.560 stainless steel mirror, stainless steel sinc. The water tasted like 0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:33.040 something that was like really disgusting. 0:23:34.600 --> 0:23:35.520 The walls were. 0:23:35.400 --> 0:23:41.679 Painted a light light light, light blue white. Instead of 0:23:41.720 --> 0:23:46.760 a steel bench, it was concrete, and the door is 0:23:46.880 --> 0:23:48.840 like seven feet tall. 0:23:49.080 --> 0:23:53.760 And it's solid steel. It's just so dramatic. During the verdict, 0:23:54.000 --> 0:23:55.280 I'm not going back to the jail. 0:23:55.320 --> 0:23:57.760 I'm in this room. I'm eating in this room. I'm 0:23:57.800 --> 0:24:01.360 sitting in this room. So every time the jury has 0:24:01.359 --> 0:24:03.960 a question, this big door opens with this big key, 0:24:04.840 --> 0:24:07.440 and my door opens. My heart drops because this could 0:24:07.480 --> 0:24:14.080 be the verdict. But no, it's a jury question again. 0:24:16.880 --> 0:24:20.040 All right, Judge brings the jury out. Jury asked the question. 0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:23.200 The first question was does she have to be killed 0:24:23.200 --> 0:24:24.240 on October third? 0:24:25.200 --> 0:24:28.640 It's hard to overstate how heavy that question was. If 0:24:28.640 --> 0:24:32.080 the jury harbored doubts that Josette died on October third, 0:24:32.600 --> 0:24:36.360 the state's whole case collapsed, because that was the day 0:24:36.440 --> 0:24:39.080 Denise Rose claims she saw the murder in the van. 0:24:40.200 --> 0:24:44.040 Any question about when Josette died could nuke the timeline 0:24:44.119 --> 0:24:46.080 of Denise's story. 0:24:46.280 --> 0:24:49.600 I'm like, well, that's not the worst question. I go 0:24:49.680 --> 0:24:51.520 back in. They do this like four or five times. 0:24:51.520 --> 0:24:53.240 I forget how many times I'd have to. 0:24:53.280 --> 0:24:58.360 Go back, and the question started to get worse. So 0:24:58.880 --> 0:25:00.240 I'm at the table. 0:25:01.800 --> 0:25:05.120 And I look at Mark Igniffolo and I say to him, 0:25:05.200 --> 0:25:05.800 I said. 0:25:09.720 --> 0:25:20.119 Losing Anthony was the only one sweating through his shirt. 0:25:20.840 --> 0:25:25.480 Mark Baker was furiously scribbling notes to himself, sketching out 0:25:25.480 --> 0:25:29.359 the basis for another appeal and a fourth jury trial 0:25:29.400 --> 0:25:34.399 for Anthony. The next morning, the jury reached a verdict. 0:25:34.800 --> 0:25:39.280 Anthony and his lawyers were summoned back in. So there's 0:25:39.320 --> 0:25:43.760 a fine line between massive anxiety and exhilaration. 0:25:45.359 --> 0:25:48.960 It's just a state of mind. So I'm having both 0:25:49.080 --> 0:25:54.320 states of mind, and you know, I faced this before, 0:25:55.320 --> 0:26:02.160