WEBVTT - Us with Korama Danquah 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:04.000 On the Dog Cast, the questions asked if movies have 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:08.039 women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:12.520 or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in best 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:21.440 start changing it with the Bell Cast. Hey, hey, Jamie, Sorry, 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:25.439 I wasn't expecting that, But could you look? Did you 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:29.440 look out the window? It's it's us out there. There's 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:34.080 evil doppelgang er Caitlin and Jamie outside. Oh no, but 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:38.919 they're cute. But I like computer than us. What if 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:42.360 they're nicer than us? What if they're actually not evil? 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:47.599 What if we're the evil ones? It's open to interpretation. Well, 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:50.360 guess what. Here's the twist. I am the other. I 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:52.640 am the one outside is the one that you thought 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:58.560 was me? Oh my goodness. That was an effective opening. 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:03.440 That was our best on ye yet I think. Welcome 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:05.880 to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante, names 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:10.479 Jamie Loftus, and this is our podcast about the representation 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:14.440 of of of of a lot of things in movies. 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:17.440 We we come to some of your favorite movies using 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:22.959 an intersectional lend, using the Bechtel test as a jumping 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:25.959 off point for a discussion, and the Bechtel Test, of course, 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:28.560 being if you're not familiar, if this is your first 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:31.520 episode ever and you've never heard I think this will 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:33.640 be a fun point of entry this. This would be 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:38.240 a fun first episode. Yeah, so welcome. The Bechtel Test 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:41.959 is a media metric uh sometimes known as the Bechtel 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:46.959 Wallace Test, was created by cartoonist Allison Bechtel, and it 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:50.480 requires for our purposes, this is our rendition of it, 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:54.240 because there are various versions of the test, but ours 0:01:54.440 --> 0:02:00.680 is that two people of any marginalized gender, they have 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:03.200 to have names. They have to speak to each other 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:06.720 about something other than a man for at least two 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:10.480 lines of dialogue. That's our bar, my favorite, and I 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:12.520 suppose so this is just a jumping out point for discussion. 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:14.839 So I can already say this movie passes the Bechtel test. 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:17.920 But one of my favorite passes is when it's Lupete 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:21.360 and Younga and Elizabeth Moss talking to each other about 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:23.799 how Lupide doesn't really want to talk to her, and 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:28.519 Elizabeth pass is like, oh okay, totally, like that's a past. 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:32.480 She's like, are you okay, Lupeta, and She's just like, 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:34.840 I'm not good at talk I don't really want to 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:39.480 talk to you right It was one of my favorite 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:42.960 passes of this movie, or really of the cast at all. Like, 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:45.280 you know, two women agreeing that they don't really want 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:49.480 to talk right now, that's a pass um. And we're 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:53.760 so excited to bring back a a much beloved guest 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:56.760 for a movie that she was really excited to talk 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:59.639 about that is a much requested movie on the cast. 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:04.079 The movie, of course being US Jordan peels us from 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:09.519 and the guest, of course being writer, actor, co host 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:12.960 of the podcast Popcorn Book Club and recent guest on 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:17.919 our Cheetah Girls episode It's Karamadonqua. Hello and welcome back. 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:21.560 Thank you, thank you so much for having me back. Um, 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:24.560 I am so excited. Like Jamie said, I was very 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:26.600 excited to talk about this movie. I think I sent 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:30.240 you an email with seven different us is on it. 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:32.640 I was like, I can talk about any of these movies, 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:36.840 also US and this movie and also US and I know, 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:40.960 I don't know US. Maybe it's and it's been a 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:45.040 movie that has been requested by listeners since before it 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:48.760 came out. So we are we are so excited that 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:52.320 you're back. Welcome back. How are you I am good. 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:56.400 I am you know here, which is more than a 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:58.280 lot of people can say. And I'm very happy for 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:01.080 that have not been killed by an evil doubelganger or 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:05.000 a coronavirus yet, So knock on wood, knock on wood. 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:10.360 That keeps being true. So tell us what is your 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:14.240 relationship with the film US? Why of the list that 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:18.680 you provided was it on their seven times? Um? Well, 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:21.159 I saw US. I would just like to shout out 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:23.720 my friend Mike. He took me with him to an 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:26.520 advanced screening of US, so I got to see it 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:30.839 before it was officially released to the public. He works 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:33.160 at BuzzFeed, so they had like a little screening thing 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:34.800 for BuzzFeed people and he was like, do you want 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:36.560 to be my plus one? And I'm like, good because 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:37.960 if you would ask one of your white friends, I 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:41.919 would have felt funny. So I got to see I 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:43.640 think it was like a couple of weeks before it 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:46.320 was released to the public, and I was just struck 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:50.039 by And I love horror and growing up as a 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:53.080 black person not seeing myself in a ton of horror 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:56.440 or seeing myself as like definitely never a final girl 0:04:56.800 --> 0:05:02.000 in horror. Uh sucked? Um Like I think Screen. I 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:04.240 love Scream. That's one of my favorite horror franchises. I'm 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:06.520 so excited they're making a new one because I've seen 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:09.919 all four Screen movies, all three seasons of the television show, 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:12.840 which no one watched. I was like, I totally forgot 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:17.120 that was the thing, yeah, for multiple seasons. So um. 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:21.160 I think Scream Too was the movie that was the 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:24.120 only Screen movie that had any black characters in it. 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:27.839 And they killed Jada Pinkett Smith in the cold open 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:31.640 in the movie theater. It was a beautiful scene, love her. 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:35.400 Like after acknowledging, they're like, wow, horror movies always killed 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:38.160 the black characters right away, and then the black characters 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:41.480 get killed right away immediately, like four seconds after they're 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:45.400 done saying that sentence. So just Jordan Peele bringing black 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:48.360 horror sort of to the forefront of the horror conversation 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:51.760 is exciting and like, I feel like this much more 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:55.440 than Get Out, leans into horror more than comedy, though 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:58.080 he is sort of on the line of both, which 0:05:58.120 --> 0:05:59.760 I think is great, and I love that tradition, which 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:01.600 is one of the reasons I like the Scream franchise 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:05.680 so much. So I'm excited about talking about black horror 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:10.440 and I love Lupe Tonyongo just always forever, and so yeah, 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:12.960 I just love everything about this movie. And it's there 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:19.039 they have matching jumpsuits. I mean, it's fashioned forward, it's 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:22.800 got everything. Yeah, the I mean the tethered I think. 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.599 I mean from a well we'll talk about all the complexities, 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:29.240 but from a fashion perspective, I mean, hands down, you 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:32.839 gotta admire it. We deserve to die for not coordinating 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:36.600 our outfits, just like on that basis alone, it's like, yeah, 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:41.080 you guys underground and they got it together? Yeah, how 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:43.159 how did they do that? Where they get them? That 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:45.679 is my main question, Like, I have a lot of questions. 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:48.160 I do think that it's hard to talk about this 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:51.400 movie without talking about get Out because it was like 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:53.800 everybody's comparing it to get Out and get Out with 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:56.680 so critically acclaimed, and I think that it is not 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:59.000 as good of a movie as get Out in terms 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:02.560 of it's not as tight, but I like it better. Interesting. Yeah, 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.120 I'm I'm really excited. It's it's weird because it's like 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:08.520 because especially when it's like a director's second movie, it's 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:11.679 impossible to not be tempted to compare it to the first, 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.240 but in terms I mean the conversation surrounding the two 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:16.760 movies were also very, very different in ways that I 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:20.800 think are really interesting and excited to get into it. Kimmy, 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:26.960 what's your Wow, We're us, It's us. I saw this 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:30.840 movie shortly after I came out. I saw it in 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:34.880 theaters twice because I was really confused the first time, 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:38.720 and then did a little bit of reading, a little 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:40.520 bit of research, and then was really excited to go 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:43.160 back and see it again. And then when it hits streaming, 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:45.560 I think I've seen I think this was the fourth 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:48.400 or fifth time I've watched this movie. It is a 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:52.360 very rewarding movie on the rewatch. I think, like it 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:55.080 really is watched in theaters three times, I think, and 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:57.760 then I've watched it again like four or five times since, 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:00.520 so I've seen it almost ten and it's like free time. 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:04.120 It is. So I don't know, like I I really respect, 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:06.960 especially like a director that can put a lot of 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:11.120 references in their work without like feeling like they're being 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:13.560 like thrown at you and you're being back show Like 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:16.080 it doesn't feel like a Gilmore Girls episode kind of 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:19.920 level of we're just like, Okay, I love the Chudd 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:23.400 reference right right, Like but they're but they're so subtle, 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:25.760 and like there's a Goonies reference, but if you haven't 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:29.320 seen the Goonies, you don't really lose anything, Like I 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:31.400 just I don't know. I think his style of writing 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:34.440 in this movie in particular is really layered and cool, 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:36.600 and I like saw stuff on this viewing I didn't 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:40.120 realize on the first and yeah, I'm a big fan. 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:43.720 What about you, Caitlin. I also saw it numerous times 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:47.080 in theaters. The first time was with Jamie, our mutual 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:51.480 friend Bryant. We had to go to one of my 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:54.080 favorite bars that I haven't been to in what feels 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:58.199 like years now for obvious reasons. But afterwards we were like, 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:00.520 there's so much to talk about. So we went to 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:03.920 this bar and uh talked about the movie for like 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:05.720 three hours and we were just like, what did we 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:08.120 just watch? What did it all mean? No? No, I 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:12.160 missed doing that, I know. And then I saw it 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:15.760 again in theaters with my friend Nolan, and you know, 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:20.360 we had a similar like hours long discussion afterward and 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:23.319 both times, and I've also seen it about I think 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:27.200 four times. Now Here's the thing. I'll be completely honest 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:30.400 about this. I really really liked this movie for the 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:36.080 first of it, and then the last ten fifteen minutes 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:40.280 or so. And this is completely from a screenwriting standpoint, 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:44.160 it loses me. I think some choices were made in 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:46.040 the writing. I think this is a movie that you 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:49.200 didn't need to explain where the tethered come from or 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:52.520 what the origins are in like different like like. I 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:55.199 think it would have served the story a little bit 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:58.800 better if we had just not been given any explanation 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:02.600 of the origin. And and maybe that actually does something 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:04.760 to mess up the intent of the allegory and stuff 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:06.840 like that. I'm not totally sure, because I also don't 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:09.280 really know what the allegory is supposed to be entirely 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:14.280 not don't exactly because there's so many interpretations. Um. But 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:17.000 from a strictly screenwriting point of view, I was like, 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:19.640 oh man, I don't like that they tried to explain 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:22.520 some of the stuff that I felt could have just 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:26.360 been left unexplained. But for the first again, ninety percent 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:28.680 of the movie, I'm like, this is awesome. I love 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:33.120 this family, I love their journey. I've come I've come 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:36.040 around on the ending, This was the first viewing where 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:39.240 I'm like, I think the because I felt the same 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:41.240 way that you did. But then I like, weirdly turned 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:43.760 a corner at some point where maybe I was reading. 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:46.880 I read a lot of new analysis that had come 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:50.920 out since I last was seeking out analysis on this movie, 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:53.439 and I don't know, I'm excited to talk about it 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:55.120 because I've turned a corner on the ending of the 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:59.640 movie and now I'm pro, Wow, I'm fifty fifty. I 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:02.880 think it's depends on the day. I'm like, on a Tuesday, 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:05.520 I'm like, yeah, this is a great ending, but catch 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:09.640 me on a Thursday. Who knows, who know exactly. This 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:11.800 was also the first viewing of the movie too where 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:15.000 I like, I had never really sought out any information 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:18.960 on the music of this movie, but the story of 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:21.640 like how the music was composed as really interesting as well. 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:25.360 Michael Abels is an incredible composer. I loved him. I 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:27.400 think he's great. One of my friends actually wrote a 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:30.120 movie that Michael Labels did the music for that came 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:32.760 out in April. Yeah, it's called Bad Education. It's on HBO. 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:36.400 I've seen that movie. Yeah, Yeah, my movie is awesome. Yeah, 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:38.480 my friend Mike different Mike than took me to this 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:40.199 movie though, I did he get out with the mic 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:43.480 who wrote Bad Education? Uh? Yeah, my friend Mic wrote it. 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:46.360 He's incredible. Love him to death. Oh that's so everyone 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:49.840 should watch Bad Education. I really enjoyed it. That's so cool. Nice. 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:54.360 But yeah, Michael Abels is just like a genius. Yeah, 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:58.480 it's amazing. Like where I don't know, Like I we 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:02.959 don't talk about scoring very often on our feminist movie podcast, 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:05.199 which I guess fair enough, but there is like there's 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:07.719 just so much to talk about about. How where he 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:11.160 was pulling from And like I was, I was like, oh, 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:14.320 what are they saying in the in the theme and 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:17.160 it's nonsense, it's nothing. He made he made it up. 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:21.320 Like I don't know, there's so much cool stuff. Well 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:24.360 shall we dive in with the recap? It? All right? 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:29.000 So we open with text on the screen saying that 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:32.360 there are thousands of miles of underground tunnels in the US. 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:36.760 They're abandoned subways, service routes, mine shafts, and then others 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:40.040 that have no known purpose at all to be where 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:42.880 the tethered live. Every time I watched the movie, I 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:46.120 forget that that's the beginning, because my brain has to 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:49.040 forget that so that I can walk around on top 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:54.640 of these times. Yeah. Uh, now, it's like that. Every 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:56.520 time you watch it. It's like you think about that 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:58.319 non stuff for a week and then it just kind 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:01.480 of leaves you until the next time and you're like, oh, no, 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:07.520 the tunnels, because is that true? Yes, Oh my gosh, yeah, 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:09.760 there are a lot. I actually did some reading on tunnels, 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:11.640 and right around the time the movie came out, there 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:15.040 was a book that was released. I can't remember the author. 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:18.600 I didn't write it down because I was like, i'll remember, sure, 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:22.160 but it's called Underground and then it has a subtitle 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.000 and it talks about all of the various tunnels that 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:29.080 exist under major cities that are not being used and 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:31.280 I shouldn't say are not being used. A lot of 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:35.720 them are actually being occupied by people who are experiencing homelessness, 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:38.560 and some some of them are in New York City, 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.640 some of them are in Chicago. There's some in Los Angeles, 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:43.440 and I was like, no, oh, don't tell me that, 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.440 Like in downtown Los Angeles there are tunnels that were 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:50.000 possibly used by bootleggers, but were the original subway in 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:51.880 Los Angeles before it shut down, and then they made 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.440 a new subway, so the original Redline tunnels are just 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:58.959 abandoned and I didn't know that. I'm so curious how 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:02.160 one would even to one of these tunnels and figure 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:06.040 that out. Right, right, you go down an escalator that 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:08.839 is on the other side of the door at a 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:13.440 fun house of mirrors, well maintained escalator. I love the 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:20.200 escalator shot so much goodness. That's the opening. Then we 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:23.680 cut to a close up on like an eighties style TV. 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:27.880 We see an ad for hands across America, and then 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:31.560 we meet a little girl, adelaide A k Addie, the 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:36.320 cutest child. Shout out to all the child actors in 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:39.800 this movie because they all do a terrific job. Incredible, 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:44.200 so good and and it also made me just appreciate 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.200 Jordan Peel's directing again, where I know that he pulls 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:50.320 a lot from Kubrick, who is like so notoriously a 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:52.760 shitty person towards actors. But you can just tell, like 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:55.640 there were even certain shots because I think I've just 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:58.800 seen this movie enough times to notice the shot changes 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:00.840 and stuff where you're like, oh, if that was Kubrick, 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:03.840 he would have just let that kid walk into a mirror. 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:06.800 But Jordan Peel cuts to another shot and it's like, 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:09.960 don't hurt yourself. It's okay, Like, I don't know that 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:12.480 was I don't know why I'm an extra notice that 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:17.720 this time. Yeah, so we meet Addie. It's nineteen six, 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:20.200 which is the year I was born. Thank you so 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:25.000 much everybody. Um. Yes, actually hands across America happened like 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:28.160 a week after I was born. Um, I've just remembered 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:31.000 how close you were born to Robert Pattinson as well. 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:34.520 When I was just googling Robert Pattinson last night. Wait, 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:36.920 is he my age? Yeah? I think he's born like 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:43.320 the week the same week as you. Oh my god. Robert. Also, 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:46.720 Winston Duke is like, is my age? He's actually a 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:48.840 few months younger than me, So you should hang out. 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:51.560 I will say that was the one thing for me 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:53.760 where Winston Duke and Lupete and Youngo do not seem 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:57.360 old enough to have a teenage daughter. Yet I agree 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:00.000 on the first like four watches, I didn't think about it, 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:03.440 and then afterwards I was like, wait a Seger, Yeah, 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:09.400 we Robert Pattinson, Ma, whoa, he's like four days older 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:12.840 than me. Then oh my gosh, Robert, let's get married, 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:17.160 because that's how you know if you're compatible someone you 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:23.080 have similar birthdays. Okay, So Addie is with her parents 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:28.280 at like the boardwalk like carnivali area in Santa Cruz, California. 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:32.640 She wanders off and goes into this creepy house of 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:37.760 mirrors where she encounters another little girl who appears to 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:41.960 look exactly like her, and we're like, and then smash 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:44.880 cut to a close up of a rabbit and there's 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:48.160 like this creepy chanting uh, and then we pull out 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:50.880 to show hundreds of rabbits. That was the coolest scene 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:53.400 to see in the theater ever, because you do you're 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:55.320 not expecting it, and you're just like, oh my god, 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:57.760 there's there's more rabbits, and then there's even more rabbits, 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:00.320 and then it's and then so long and yeah, it's 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:01.760 like they're telling you you're going to go down a 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:06.280 rabbit hole. Wow. I had a lot of fun looking 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:09.560 for like this really deep layered symbolism of the rabbits, 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:11.480 which I did find. There's been a lot of writing 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:13.040 about it, but all I've been able to find from 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:16.240 Jordan Peelee is He's just like, I am personally afraid 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:20.200 of rabbits, and you're like, oh cool. It doesn't always 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:25.439 have to mean something sometimes sometimes Alfonso Korn is like, 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:29.320 the reason that green is a prominent color in The 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:32.320 Little Princess is because I like the color green. At 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:34.280 the end, you're like, oh yeah, it's dear a movie. 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:37.439 I guess you could do whatever you want. Um okay, 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:41.840 the rabbits and then we cut to adult Adelaide who's 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:45.160 played by Lupida and Yongo, and she has a husband 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:49.879 Gabe that's Winston Duke, a teenage daughter, Zora, and a 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:55.560 younger son, Jason. This family, the Wilsons, arrive at their 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:59.080 summer home that is not far from Santa Cruz, California. 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:03.879 Then we flashed to Addie as a child. Her parents 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:06.639 have brought her to a child psychologist because she hasn't 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:11.359 spoken since she went into this House of mirrors, but 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:14.920 we don't know why. We assume she's been traumatized by 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:18.119 this interaction with this other doppelgang or girl. Then we 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:21.040 cut back to the present um the family goes to 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:24.120 the beach in Santa Cruz against the same one where 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:29.000 this incident happened. They meet their friends Kitty and Josh, 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:33.640 played by Elizabeth Moss and Tim Hidecker, who you don't 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:36.639 think are going to work as a couple until they do. 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:39.359 Until they do, it just does it, just does work. 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:43.120 But also I'm like, they have teen Elizabeth Moss can't 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:46.240 have a seventeen year old daughter. I don't huh whatever, 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:48.040 Oh yeah, I guess I don't know how old. I 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:51.119 mean she has, she's had work done, so I guess 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:53.480 maybe we're supposed to think that she's older than she looks. 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:56.600 That's true, not the character Kitty has had work done. 0:18:56.680 --> 0:19:00.920 I am not. No one sued me for accusings of 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:03.679 having worked on because she's thirty eight. I mean, I 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:05.679 guess if she and which means she would have been 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:08.800 like thirties six or seven. It doesn't matter. They have 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:12.639 teenage twins, is true. Becca and Lindsay are their names. 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:16.640 So they're on the beach. Jason sees this scary guy 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:19.880 on the beach is like hand is dripping with blood. 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:23.240 Adelaide freaks out because she thinks Jason has gone missing. 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:26.360 And there's all these other like weird coincidences that are 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:30.520 happening with like spiders and frisbees, and eleven eleven make 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:33.879 a wish, and I know eleven eleven is bad, and 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:36.679 this I was like, wait, it's not a junior high 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:40.840 school student making a wish. I can't relate because it's 0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:46.080 a biblical reference that I don't remember the exact Jeremiah 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:50.359 eleven eleven, and I believe it was Jeremiah. Again. I 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:52.639 was like, I'll remember that. I don't need to write 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:57.040 that one down. I'm I'm over to I've got a 0:19:57.080 --> 0:20:01.000 little analysis section on the on the bable versus because 0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:06.080 I'm not I'm not very Bible literate myself. That someone was, um, 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:08.760 someone on the Great White Internet was kind enough to 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:12.239 break it down. Well, yeah, I think that I'm not 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:14.800 super vible literate. I will say my favorite translation is 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:17.439 definitely King James because I think it slaps and like 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:20.520 the new International version, I'm just like, this is boring. 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:25.080 Where's the poetry? Where's the moving? King James keeps it 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:28.119 moving and I appreciate that. But I think the gist 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:32.159 of the Jeremiah eleven eleven passage is y'all are going 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:34.680 to cry out and I'm not gonna do ship. Love 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:39.159 you God. That is yeah, that the cliffs notes and 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:42.160 then if you go back averse to Jeremiah eleven ten, 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:45.600 there it's all like sins of the ancestors, sins of 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:49.280 the Father, and it's like for certain reads of this movie, 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:53.520 like if you're like, oh, I think Jordan Peele may 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:58.280 have read back a verse or two. Who knows Jeordan 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:05.120 Jordan Okay. So that night they're back at home and 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:09.119 Adelaide tells Gabe about the night that she saw a 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:11.000 little girl who looked just like her when she was 0:21:11.040 --> 0:21:14.560 a child, and that how her whole life. She felt 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:17.840 that she's been coming for her, and that all these 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:21.119 little coincidences that have been happening to her, it feels 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:25.680 like this person is getting closer and closer, and then 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:28.960 suddenly they lose power. And then Jason is like, by 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:33.480 the way, there's a family in our driveway, And sure enough, 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:37.600 there's a family in their driveway, and this family invades 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:44.480 the Wilson home and they realize that it's them. It's Adelaide, Gabe, Zora, 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:48.440 and Jason. But it's like scary doppel ganger versions of 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:52.560 them who are wearing red jumpsuits and carrying scissors. Now, 0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:58.160 scary doppelganger Adelaide ak Red explains that Adelaide and Red 0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:01.680 are tethered together. Every thing that Adelaide did in her life, 0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:06.639 Read also did, but like a horrible version of it. 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:10.320 So instead of eating warm meals and playing with nice toys, 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:14.639 she ate rabbits and had sharp toys. Instead of falling 0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:17.320 in love and getting married and starting a family, Read 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:21.200 was forced to do these things. And now she wants 0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:25.080 to become untethered, and the way to do that is 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:29.000 by killing Adelaide and her family. The pairs of the 0:22:29.040 --> 0:22:34.159 Doppelgangers kind of break off. There's fighting, there's chasing their injuries. 0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:38.240 There's the boat scene. I love them. I'm obsessed with 0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:41.560 the boat. I love that the boat is called the Crawdaddy. 0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:44.400 All the boats have great names in this um. Josh's 0:22:44.400 --> 0:22:48.359 boat is called the b Yacht but with ch in 0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:53.280 the middle. Um. And then I love how Winston Duke's 0:22:53.400 --> 0:22:57.439 character gave when he's like, oh, this is a home invasion, Okay, 0:22:57.480 --> 0:23:00.760 just give them what they want, protector bodily stuff, and 0:23:00.760 --> 0:23:02.560 then just give them whatever they want, Like you can 0:23:02.600 --> 0:23:09.040 have the boat and the daughters like dad, no one wants. 0:23:10.359 --> 0:23:13.520 It's so good. Yeah, She's like, like, tears are streaming 0:23:13.560 --> 0:23:15.359 down her face and she's like, shut up, dad, no 0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:22.080 one wants your boat. Okay. So there's all these altercations, 0:23:22.119 --> 0:23:25.720 but the Wilson's eventually managed to get away in the 0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:29.560 boat and they head over to Josh and Kitties, who 0:23:29.840 --> 0:23:35.520 surprise also have scary doppelgangers who have killed that whole family. 0:23:36.320 --> 0:23:39.439 So when Adelaide and her family show up to Josh 0:23:39.560 --> 0:23:44.040 and Kitties, they have to fight scary Tim Hidecker and 0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:48.160 scary Elizabeth Moss. But do they think are the character names? Yes, 0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:52.639 they do. They have been given names like on I 0:23:52.680 --> 0:23:55.280 AMDB and like in the script, but I don't think 0:23:55.320 --> 0:23:59.880 we ever hear those ones. It's like texts and Dahlia 0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:04.000 and something else. So the Wilson's managed to kill them 0:24:04.200 --> 0:24:06.600 and the twin daughters and stuff, and then they turn 0:24:06.640 --> 0:24:09.080 on the TV and they learn that there are many, 0:24:09.119 --> 0:24:15.159 many more of these doppelgangers. Basically, everyone alive on Earth, 0:24:15.560 --> 0:24:18.800 or at least in the US, seems to have a 0:24:18.880 --> 0:24:24.680 doppelganger in the US or the US. Think about it. 0:24:24.680 --> 0:24:29.640 It makes you think. And so the doppelgangers have been 0:24:29.800 --> 0:24:33.400 killing there above ground counterparts and then gathering and holding 0:24:33.560 --> 0:24:38.200 hands not on like hands across America. So the Wilson 0:24:38.280 --> 0:24:42.119 family takes off. They head to back to the boardwalk 0:24:42.160 --> 0:24:44.359 area because they're going to like drive. The plan is 0:24:44.400 --> 0:24:47.760 to drive to Mexico along the coast, but they get 0:24:47.880 --> 0:24:52.560 interrupted because Jason scary. Jason is their a k a. Pluto, 0:24:53.240 --> 0:24:57.120 But it's a trap that enables Read to kidnap Jason. 0:24:57.240 --> 0:25:00.600 She takes him underground via the House of Mirror, so 0:25:00.680 --> 0:25:03.960 Adelaide goes in after him and she ends up deep underground. 0:25:04.119 --> 0:25:07.399 We see the dwelling, you know, these tunnels where the 0:25:07.440 --> 0:25:12.600 tethered have been living. She finds Red, who explains that 0:25:12.680 --> 0:25:19.080 the tethered are like clones or copies of people, but 0:25:19.160 --> 0:25:22.840 they don't have souls. They were created. There's like the 0:25:22.880 --> 0:25:26.479 illusions of this sort of like science experiment gone wrong, 0:25:27.240 --> 0:25:31.200 but it was failed and the clones or the copies 0:25:31.359 --> 0:25:34.879 were abandoned, but they kind of just had to live on, 0:25:35.160 --> 0:25:39.760 remaining tethered to their above ground counterparts. As this is happening, 0:25:39.960 --> 0:25:45.520 we get flashbacks where we see getting into the twist 0:25:45.800 --> 0:25:49.359 is moment. But yes, yes, we're seeing like Addie as 0:25:49.359 --> 0:25:53.520 a kid and Red as a kid, and the carnival 0:25:53.600 --> 0:25:55.920 and how they sort of came together and met up, 0:25:56.560 --> 0:26:00.560 but the tethered were like, oh, look at the little girl. 0:26:00.680 --> 0:26:03.600 She's going to be the one to save us from 0:26:03.600 --> 0:26:07.080 this misery. And Red explains how, you know, she had 0:26:07.200 --> 0:26:10.880 orchestrated this whole movement where they would rise above and 0:26:11.320 --> 0:26:14.760 kill their above ground counterparts, the untethering, she calls it 0:26:14.920 --> 0:26:17.720 the untethering. And then you see this cool montage where 0:26:17.720 --> 0:26:19.720 they get their suits, and you're like, where they get 0:26:19.720 --> 0:26:21.840 the suits? Where they where they get the scissors? Where 0:26:21.840 --> 0:26:24.679 did they get where they get the shoes? There might 0:26:24.680 --> 0:26:27.199 be manufacturing down there. We don't we don't really know 0:26:27.240 --> 0:26:30.439 what the what the system is like could be. And 0:26:30.480 --> 0:26:34.879 then Adelaide and Red fight most of the time Red 0:26:34.960 --> 0:26:38.720 has the upper hand. The score really shines here, and 0:26:38.760 --> 0:26:43.760 then Adelaide finally kills Red and rescues Jason. Their back 0:26:43.800 --> 0:26:48.080 above ground, the Wilson family reunites, and then we get 0:26:48.600 --> 0:26:52.960 a flashback where the big twist is revealed. We see 0:26:53.119 --> 0:26:56.280 Adelaide and Red when they have met in the House 0:26:56.280 --> 0:26:59.919 of Mirrors as children, and we see that Red caps 0:27:00.480 --> 0:27:04.920 Adelaide switched places with her, so that Addie has actually 0:27:04.960 --> 0:27:09.520 been a tethered this whole time. And Red was actually 0:27:09.920 --> 0:27:13.160 little Addie the whole time. And then we zoom out 0:27:13.160 --> 0:27:16.480 and we see that the Tethered are holding hands across America. 0:27:18.000 --> 0:27:21.760 And then that is the end of their helet afters 0:27:22.119 --> 0:27:26.480 what are they doing? Who? Pilot? Who? Who is it? Tethereds? 0:27:26.680 --> 0:27:32.040 I don't know, they don't know all that and more 0:27:32.400 --> 0:27:35.679 will discuss, but first we're going to take a break, 0:27:36.040 --> 0:27:44.800 and then we'll come right back and we're back. Where 0:27:44.880 --> 0:27:49.280 to begin? Where to begin? Here's here's here's a fact 0:27:49.320 --> 0:27:52.639 that's just pure fun. Sure, I get you know, you 0:27:52.640 --> 0:27:55.280 know how at the beginning, Um, they're talking when they're 0:27:55.320 --> 0:27:57.800 on the boardwalk in the eighties, they're like, oh, I 0:27:57.840 --> 0:27:59.960 think a movie is shooting around here. It's the Law 0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:05.200 Lost Boys. Yes, it's The Lost Boy That is fun. 0:28:07.640 --> 0:28:10.440 I was like, Oh, that's it. That's Jordan Peel hides 0:28:10.440 --> 0:28:12.399 so much cool stuff in here that I was like, wait, 0:28:13.040 --> 0:28:16.720 that's the Last Boys. His little Easter eggs, which the 0:28:17.040 --> 0:28:18.920 little rabbits. What if? What if those are just a 0:28:18.960 --> 0:28:21.639 bunch of little Easter bunnies hiding all the Easter eggs 0:28:21.640 --> 0:28:26.440 around his movies to find them. So that's that, Um, 0:28:26.520 --> 0:28:31.240 anything else we want to discuss or Nope. At the end, 0:28:31.359 --> 0:28:35.160 I find it interesting this time rewatching it. I rewatched 0:28:35.160 --> 0:28:39.120 it twice before we talked, because why not. And I 0:28:39.240 --> 0:28:43.960 realized on the second rewatch for this discussion that it 0:28:44.040 --> 0:28:47.160 was ADDIE's birthday when they were at the board walk, 0:28:47.160 --> 0:28:49.760 which was not something I had picked up on any 0:28:49.800 --> 0:28:54.600 other viewing. Yes, because he wins her, her dad wins 0:28:54.600 --> 0:28:57.320 her the Thriller shirt right, or she's like having to 0:28:57.360 --> 0:28:59.920 pick what prize and then her mom's like, it's your birthday, 0:29:00.040 --> 0:29:03.160 you do whatever you want. Yeah, it was like what 0:29:03.240 --> 0:29:07.400 a day? What an intense birthday? Bad birthday? They made 0:29:07.400 --> 0:29:11.000 me wonder do the tether to have any concept of birthdays? 0:29:11.040 --> 0:29:13.800 Like they have to understand what they are because there's 0:29:14.120 --> 0:29:17.080 it's a mirror, So whatever we're doing above ground, they're 0:29:17.120 --> 0:29:21.000 doing underground. So it's like they're just doing the like 0:29:21.080 --> 0:29:23.280 worst case scenario version. So I guess that they would 0:29:23.320 --> 0:29:27.560 have worst case scenario birthdays. Yeah, I guess. So I 0:29:27.600 --> 0:29:30.960 mean red mentions Christmas. She's like, on Christmas, I opened 0:29:30.960 --> 0:29:33.320 my toys and they were sharp and cold and cut 0:29:33.320 --> 0:29:35.400 my fingers when I played with them. So I think 0:29:35.400 --> 0:29:37.880 they get the concept of holidays. Yeah, but Red also 0:29:37.960 --> 0:29:42.520 wasn't above ground person before, so that also who knows. 0:29:42.920 --> 0:29:45.240 I don't know, I don't know. I don't know anything, 0:29:45.400 --> 0:29:47.200 And I love that I don't know anything. It's so 0:29:47.280 --> 0:29:50.680 much to explore. It's like tunnels of movie reference and 0:29:51.360 --> 0:29:55.920 so many tunnels. Also in that um that sequence on 0:29:56.360 --> 0:30:00.680 the boardwalk, there's so I'll just go back and hit 0:30:00.720 --> 0:30:02.880 the Bible verse really quick, well, because we were just 0:30:02.880 --> 0:30:07.120 talking about it anyways. So you see an unhoused man 0:30:07.120 --> 0:30:10.440 on the pier holding a sign that says Jeremiah eleven eleven, 0:30:10.880 --> 0:30:15.920 which says, I mean charma. I think you honestly, uh, 0:30:16.120 --> 0:30:19.280 summarize it pretty well, says Therefore, thus say it the Lord. 0:30:19.360 --> 0:30:21.560 I will bring on them a disaster they cannot escape, 0:30:21.560 --> 0:30:23.120 although they will cry out to me, I will not 0:30:23.200 --> 0:30:25.440 listen to them. Then, if you go back a verse, 0:30:26.040 --> 0:30:29.520 it says in Jeremiah one ten, they have returned to 0:30:29.560 --> 0:30:32.080 the sins of their ancestors, who refused to listen to 0:30:32.160 --> 0:30:35.000 MY words. They have followed other gods to serve them. 0:30:35.080 --> 0:30:38.360 Both Israel and Judah have broken the covenant I made 0:30:38.360 --> 0:30:41.720 with their ancestors. Don't know what the last sentence is, 0:30:42.440 --> 0:30:48.200 but the read that I feel closest to on this view, 0:30:48.280 --> 0:30:50.920 and again it's like changed over time, but the view 0:30:51.320 --> 0:30:54.000 I've the read of the movie that I feel closest 0:30:54.040 --> 0:30:57.480 to on this day, I felt like finding out that 0:30:57.640 --> 0:31:05.360 verse was really helpful and kind of solidifying that interesting. Yeah, well, 0:31:05.400 --> 0:31:09.120 I think before we maybe dive into the nitty gritty 0:31:09.160 --> 0:31:13.160 of all the readings and the symbolism and allegories and things, 0:31:13.200 --> 0:31:16.960 I kind of wanted to touch on the way that 0:31:17.360 --> 0:31:21.960 horror movies have historically treated black people and black characters 0:31:22.920 --> 0:31:28.520 because you wouldn't believe it, but it's been terrible. Um 0:31:28.560 --> 0:31:33.200 there's a really good documentary called Horror Noir, A History 0:31:33.200 --> 0:31:37.400 of Black Horror. That's a Shutter original documentary. UM So 0:31:37.440 --> 0:31:41.360 I would recommend watching that to the listeners, but it 0:31:41.400 --> 0:31:44.280 does a deep dive of this, but basically a very 0:31:44.320 --> 0:31:50.640 brief overview of the representation of black characters in cinema historically, 0:31:50.680 --> 0:31:55.800 again has been terrible. There's a long history of black 0:31:55.880 --> 0:32:00.360 men in particular being shown as villains who brutal lies 0:32:00.400 --> 0:32:03.680 white women. A lot of that was white actors in 0:32:03.760 --> 0:32:08.400 black face. There is a long history of the magical 0:32:08.440 --> 0:32:12.320 negro trope being used in horror films. There's the widely 0:32:12.360 --> 0:32:15.440 known trope that we referenced earlier that gets called out 0:32:15.480 --> 0:32:19.520 in screamed too and then acted out anyway, and then 0:32:19.640 --> 0:32:23.120 and then and then followed through on where in an 0:32:23.280 --> 0:32:26.200 ensemble horror movie where there's a bunch of people who 0:32:26.240 --> 0:32:29.840 die throughout this story, there's often one black person in 0:32:29.880 --> 0:32:31.880 the cast, and they are often the first to die. 0:32:32.400 --> 0:32:34.760 So there's different things like that. That's only kind of 0:32:34.760 --> 0:32:38.600 the tip of the iceberg. So a movie like Us, 0:32:39.000 --> 0:32:42.080 a movie like get Out, a movie like the upcoming 0:32:42.400 --> 0:32:45.240 Candy Man, I'm very excited for. While they're not that 0:32:45.320 --> 0:32:47.560 I know, I'm so excited for it. While they are 0:32:47.640 --> 0:32:52.719 not the first movies to subvert all of these problems, 0:32:53.160 --> 0:32:55.960 they are pretty unique and that they don't fall into 0:32:56.080 --> 0:32:59.040 all these tropes, and you'll never guess why. It's because 0:32:59.080 --> 0:33:02.560 they are made by black filmmakers. So I just wanted 0:33:02.600 --> 0:33:07.880 to again just acknowledge the really reprehensible history in terms 0:33:08.040 --> 0:33:12.440 of representation of black characters in horror films, because it's 0:33:12.480 --> 0:33:16.640 been real bad. Uh. Not that non white filmmakers have 0:33:16.760 --> 0:33:21.080 been forced to enact these tropes, they have just continued 0:33:21.160 --> 0:33:25.240 to make the choice. And I think it's also marketing. 0:33:25.280 --> 0:33:27.800 It's like, I don't know, are people gonna go for 0:33:27.840 --> 0:33:32.720 a black final girl. Who's to say it's like I would? Yeah, 0:33:32.960 --> 0:33:36.040 I like those movies. I mean yeah, it's like Us 0:33:36.040 --> 0:33:40.480 and get Out where enormous box office successes. Yeah, I 0:33:40.520 --> 0:33:45.440 mean it's and Karama, you probably have more thoughts than 0:33:45.480 --> 0:33:48.520 we do because we every year when we do our 0:33:48.640 --> 0:33:51.800 Month of Horror, where like we don't know enough about horror. 0:33:53.040 --> 0:33:55.560 I don't want to say I'm like a horror expert. 0:33:55.600 --> 0:33:59.320 I am, and I'm an enjoyer of horror and I've 0:33:59.360 --> 0:34:01.360 loved it since I as a kid. Uh. It is 0:34:01.400 --> 0:34:03.880 not something that was handed down to me. Neither of 0:34:03.920 --> 0:34:06.280 my parents enjoy horror films. I was like, Mom, will 0:34:06.320 --> 0:34:07.960 you watch Us with me? And she was like no, 0:34:08.040 --> 0:34:10.759 I'm good because she saw she saw get Out and 0:34:10.800 --> 0:34:12.520 that was scary for her. She was like, I heard 0:34:12.520 --> 0:34:14.960 this one scarier and I'm like, oh much, and she 0:34:15.000 --> 0:34:19.120 said no, thanks. So it's interesting that I just sort 0:34:19.160 --> 0:34:21.480 of adopted that on my own and was like, yeah, 0:34:21.680 --> 0:34:24.640 this is cool. I love the creepy Crawley's and the 0:34:24.719 --> 0:34:28.719 killing and the monsters. I think the horror as a 0:34:28.800 --> 0:34:33.480 genre is great because it allows and I think that 0:34:33.520 --> 0:34:36.040 there's a really big love of horror in a lot 0:34:36.080 --> 0:34:39.279 of black communities, despite the treatment of black people on 0:34:39.480 --> 0:34:43.160 screen in horror, because it is a safe space to 0:34:43.239 --> 0:34:47.600 be afraid and you know two hours this is what's 0:34:47.600 --> 0:34:49.520 going to happen. And it's very it's almost like law 0:34:49.520 --> 0:34:52.200 and order and procedural television where you know what the 0:34:52.200 --> 0:34:55.760 beats are going to be and it's like very safe 0:34:55.760 --> 0:34:58.680 and formulaic, but still good and still fresh and interesting 0:34:59.120 --> 0:35:02.160 in various ways. Is and like the different monsters that 0:35:02.200 --> 0:35:04.160 are going to come and kill you, like, oh, this 0:35:04.160 --> 0:35:06.840 one's a haunted lake man, and this one is a 0:35:06.920 --> 0:35:10.239 child molester that's been burned, and this one the one 0:35:10.239 --> 0:35:12.440 that we see all the time, something that has a 0:35:12.520 --> 0:35:18.040 vagina for a head. Uh, always has a lovely little 0:35:18.200 --> 0:35:20.560 little vul the head. And it's like, I'm coming for you. 0:35:21.560 --> 0:35:25.440 Women are scarier. It's like, oh my god, take movies 0:35:25.480 --> 0:35:29.880 away from men today. Um, no vulva heads in this movie. 0:35:29.960 --> 0:35:32.400 And so you do have to you do have to 0:35:32.480 --> 0:35:37.240 hand it to the restraint of Jordan Peel. That's true. Um, 0:35:37.280 --> 0:35:40.279 but I mean, but what is going down into underground 0:35:40.360 --> 0:35:43.680 into tunnels, but going into a vagina going into the 0:35:43.680 --> 0:35:49.880 Earth's womb. The makes you think what I liked because 0:35:49.960 --> 0:35:53.600 this is the way that this movie plays out does 0:35:53.680 --> 0:35:56.440 inspire so much conversation, and I feel like it is 0:35:56.480 --> 0:35:59.120 almost one of those movies that and it seems like 0:35:59.120 --> 0:36:01.040 an interview is that and people kind of wanted it 0:36:01.080 --> 0:36:05.240 to be like this, that how you read the ending 0:36:05.520 --> 0:36:07.520 kind of like says more about you than it says 0:36:07.560 --> 0:36:09.680 about the movie, which is always kind of fun and 0:36:09.760 --> 0:36:15.000 terrifying to engage with. But in terms of like flipping 0:36:15.400 --> 0:36:19.360 horror tropes here where horror, like you're saying, chroma is 0:36:19.400 --> 0:36:24.200 so built around I don't know what what scares the filmmaker, 0:36:24.360 --> 0:36:26.880 and in theory for horror movies to do well, what 0:36:27.080 --> 0:36:29.920 scare the audience at a certain point in time and 0:36:29.960 --> 0:36:33.160 taking the idea of the other. And I watched a 0:36:33.320 --> 0:36:36.280 there's a really good analysis of this movie from the take, 0:36:37.280 --> 0:36:40.040 which is just like an analysis YouTube channel where it 0:36:40.120 --> 0:36:44.000 basically they make the point that the general horror UH 0:36:44.160 --> 0:36:49.839 formula is to take the other and reoppressed them by 0:36:49.880 --> 0:36:52.239 the end of the movie. So with the example of 0:36:52.280 --> 0:36:56.280 like Michael Myers, he is the other villain of this movie. 0:36:56.640 --> 0:36:59.800 And then the victory at the end is to oppress 0:36:59.840 --> 0:37:02.480 him further than he was at the beginning of the 0:37:02.520 --> 0:37:07.920 movie because he's bad and so what's cool and like 0:37:08.120 --> 0:37:11.919 also like scrambles your brain about this movie is that 0:37:12.080 --> 0:37:18.040 you it's unclear who, like who deserves what in this 0:37:18.200 --> 0:37:20.799 where it's like the surface read of the movie is, Oh, 0:37:20.840 --> 0:37:25.040 we love this family. They're not doing anything wrong that 0:37:25.080 --> 0:37:28.840 we're seeing that is like they're not outwardly bad people, 0:37:29.760 --> 0:37:34.960 but their existence is like it's just it it fox 0:37:35.000 --> 0:37:37.319 with your head. But I do like messing around with 0:37:37.360 --> 0:37:40.320 that there is not a clear cut hero or villain 0:37:40.520 --> 0:37:45.440 to these families. Yeah, I find the more I watch it, 0:37:45.520 --> 0:37:50.799 the less I'm sure. In that scene, um, which I love. 0:37:50.880 --> 0:37:53.400 I love the sort of dance read of it because 0:37:53.440 --> 0:37:55.840 as I've told you too, I love dance movies. I 0:37:55.880 --> 0:37:58.040 love them so much. And it's like, look at a 0:37:58.080 --> 0:38:01.120 little mini dance movie and the and my little scary movie. 0:38:01.120 --> 0:38:05.239 It's beautiful too. Yeah, it is gorgeous. And the orchestration 0:38:05.520 --> 0:38:08.080 of this sort of classical version of I Got five 0:38:08.120 --> 0:38:11.960 on it is just Chef's kiss. But I don't know 0:38:12.120 --> 0:38:15.480 who should win. And at the end, I'm like the 0:38:15.520 --> 0:38:19.319 first time watching it, I was like, Yes, amazing, we 0:38:19.440 --> 0:38:23.480 beat the bad person. And then I was like, oh no, 0:38:23.680 --> 0:38:25.680 because you get that reveal at the end, and then 0:38:25.800 --> 0:38:29.080 watching it every subsequent time and like, I don't is 0:38:29.120 --> 0:38:34.080 this good? Who's good? I never know how to feel 0:38:34.600 --> 0:38:37.960 I at this point, I'm like, I'm like team Tether. 0:38:38.360 --> 0:38:41.600 I love the family, But I'm like, if this is 0:38:41.640 --> 0:38:43.960 so like the read of the movie that I feel 0:38:44.080 --> 0:38:47.680 closest to right now, is the story being like this 0:38:47.719 --> 0:38:53.600 allegory for basically like the unacknowledged guilt of living in 0:38:53.640 --> 0:38:58.439 a colonial society and in America specifically, which the more 0:38:58.480 --> 0:39:00.200 I watched this movie and the more I read said 0:39:00.800 --> 0:39:03.920 the hints of that are everywhere, not just in interviews 0:39:04.000 --> 0:39:07.680 Jordan Peele has done about it, where he says, literally quote, 0:39:07.840 --> 0:39:09.400 one of the central themes in Us is that we 0:39:09.440 --> 0:39:12.280 can do a good job collectively of ignoring the ramifications 0:39:12.320 --> 0:39:16.520 of privilege, and he's referencing the privilege of being a 0:39:16.600 --> 0:39:21.560 modern American. But even from like really early in the 0:39:21.680 --> 0:39:24.680 movie when she walks into the Hall of mirrors, that 0:39:24.760 --> 0:39:27.480 hall of mirrors, when you look at and listen to 0:39:27.520 --> 0:39:32.680 what's happening in there is the basically Cowboy American presentation 0:39:32.800 --> 0:39:35.440 of false history that we all learn um as it 0:39:35.480 --> 0:39:41.000 pertains to indigenous people in America, where it's like every lazy, 0:39:41.160 --> 0:39:45.000 harmful stereotype is being laid out just in the background 0:39:45.040 --> 0:39:49.400 of this scene. Yeah, it's called like Shaman's Vision Quest 0:39:49.600 --> 0:39:54.040 and its imagery of like a native and you'll you'll 0:39:54.120 --> 0:39:56.239 if you're fine intentional. Also at the end of the 0:39:56.280 --> 0:40:01.680 movie that has been changed. It's now Merlin's Forest or 0:40:01.719 --> 0:40:04.520 something like that, but it's still the same thing and 0:40:04.560 --> 0:40:11.280 you can. Yeah. And when you when we see Adelaide 0:40:11.320 --> 0:40:14.879 walk in, we hear this audio. And I always watch 0:40:14.920 --> 0:40:20.279 everything with subtitles. Drag me. I love subtitles, um And 0:40:20.400 --> 0:40:23.200 I don't understand why people hate subtitles so much. Like, 0:40:23.320 --> 0:40:25.160 if you don't want them, that's fine, but don't hate 0:40:25.160 --> 0:40:27.760 on me for using them, because I get extra layers. 0:40:28.160 --> 0:40:33.439 But you get information about these hopie like mythological characters, 0:40:33.800 --> 0:40:36.880 and so they're like, oh, we're gonna roote this and this, 0:40:37.120 --> 0:40:41.520 and yeah, if we use these names that we barely researched, 0:40:41.760 --> 0:40:45.439 it'll be fine. And while I was doing research because 0:40:45.480 --> 0:40:47.799 I was like, oh, who are these names and where 0:40:47.800 --> 0:40:50.359 did they come from? I read something that said that 0:40:50.719 --> 0:40:53.720 all Hopie mythology that has been shared with non Hopie 0:40:53.760 --> 0:40:56.080 people might just be big stuff that they tell us, 0:40:56.800 --> 0:41:00.680 which I love. They're just like, yeah, this is what 0:41:00.760 --> 0:41:03.399 we believe, um, and that there is a sort of 0:41:04.040 --> 0:41:06.680 layered level of mythology where there's what's shared with outsiders 0:41:06.719 --> 0:41:09.359 and then there's stuff that's never shared with outsiders. So 0:41:09.520 --> 0:41:12.680 I find it interesting that these characters are from the 0:41:13.000 --> 0:41:18.279 like foreigner friendly version of Hope mythology. That's incredible. Yeah, 0:41:18.320 --> 0:41:20.800 I didn't. I didn't know. I mean, and I honestly 0:41:20.840 --> 0:41:23.480 on my first I think like at least on my 0:41:23.520 --> 0:41:26.200 first two viewings of this, I didn't really pick up 0:41:26.239 --> 0:41:29.440 on that. But this time it's like another one of 0:41:29.440 --> 0:41:32.279 those things where like the subtext is there and if 0:41:32.280 --> 0:41:34.319 you engage with it, it's like a more a better 0:41:34.320 --> 0:41:37.200 way to engage with the movie. Yeah. So yeah, if 0:41:37.200 --> 0:41:39.839 we're if we're reading it, so I guess coming at 0:41:39.880 --> 0:41:44.200 it from the idea of it being from this entrenched 0:41:45.000 --> 0:41:48.319 basically like they're being more than one America and what 0:41:48.400 --> 0:41:50.400 we're presented with the at the beginning of the movie 0:41:51.040 --> 0:41:54.920 is a very comfortable middle class life. Um. And then 0:41:54.920 --> 0:41:58.200 what is happening, and so I'm trying to think of 0:41:58.239 --> 0:42:02.799 the way to like articular late this correctly, but essentially 0:42:02.880 --> 0:42:05.600 it seems like this movie is playing on for every 0:42:05.600 --> 0:42:09.000 person that has it that comes with a cost. You 0:42:09.040 --> 0:42:13.200 don't just get that. And the direct allegory happening here 0:42:13.360 --> 0:42:16.120 is like for us to have what we have, someone 0:42:16.160 --> 0:42:20.440 that we don't know and very possibly are willfully ignoring 0:42:20.480 --> 0:42:25.239 the existence of entirely are suffering for us to have 0:42:25.320 --> 0:42:30.799 the lifestyle that we have, which is true and horrifying 0:42:30.920 --> 0:42:34.960 to consider. And I really like that Jordan Peel wrights 0:42:35.560 --> 0:42:38.920 likable characters so that it's not like, oh, well, like 0:42:39.040 --> 0:42:42.160 these characters are like awful and suck and it's like, no, 0:42:42.400 --> 0:42:46.840 they're good people. They love their family, They're like living 0:42:47.440 --> 0:42:51.120 their lives, but just like us a lot of the time, 0:42:51.239 --> 0:42:55.560 just in complete ignorance too. Well, how do you have 0:42:55.680 --> 0:42:59.920 this lifestyle and who upholds it and whose labor um 0:43:00.080 --> 0:43:04.200 affords you to have what you have? Yes, I too, 0:43:04.640 --> 0:43:08.440 That is my read of the film, because there's a 0:43:08.480 --> 0:43:12.040 few different ones that have been posited. You know, people 0:43:12.080 --> 0:43:14.800 are like, okay, is it about you know, the socio 0:43:14.880 --> 0:43:18.560 economic class and privilege divide, which is like what we're 0:43:18.600 --> 0:43:22.080 talking about. There's the is it about, like the duality 0:43:22.200 --> 0:43:26.200 of one's self as an individual? Is it about you 0:43:26.239 --> 0:43:30.000 know how Americans are so polarized politically at this moment 0:43:30.080 --> 0:43:33.280 during like the Trump presidency. There's a plenty of reads, 0:43:33.280 --> 0:43:36.600 and I see like merit and all of them. But yeah, 0:43:36.840 --> 0:43:40.600 as far as the one that I am closest to, 0:43:40.680 --> 0:43:45.000 like you said, Jamie, is the one that we've just described, 0:43:45.239 --> 0:43:48.520 I am also on board that. I I think that 0:43:48.600 --> 0:43:51.040 it's the same thing. I feel like you have to 0:43:51.880 --> 0:43:54.399 look at what Peel is giving us, and it's there's 0:43:54.400 --> 0:43:57.799 so much stuff about that native imagery. Like even when 0:43:57.800 --> 0:44:00.279 they're on the beach and kiddies and looking at a magazine, 0:44:00.560 --> 0:44:03.480 there's an ad with a native headdress and she's like, oh, 0:44:03.480 --> 0:44:06.800 that's so pretty and just moves on from it really quickly. 0:44:07.120 --> 0:44:09.279 But I just like that stuck out to me the 0:44:09.280 --> 0:44:11.560 first time I watched it. I was like, wait, you 0:44:11.600 --> 0:44:15.239 can't ignore that it has to be about that, especially 0:44:15.360 --> 0:44:18.760 knowing that The Shining is a movie that Jordan Peele 0:44:19.160 --> 0:44:22.359 just absolutely adores, draws a lot of influence from, And 0:44:22.400 --> 0:44:24.960 the whole thing about that was this sort of haunted 0:44:25.080 --> 0:44:27.760 Indian burial ground trope, and this feels like a reversal 0:44:27.800 --> 0:44:29.960 of that, where instead of being cursed because you're living 0:44:29.960 --> 0:44:32.759 on top of dead Indigenous people, the bad luck comes 0:44:32.800 --> 0:44:35.440 from living on top of alive people who are just 0:44:35.520 --> 0:44:38.360 like you but speak another language that you can't understand. 0:44:38.400 --> 0:44:41.640 And we are tethered to these Indigenous people whose land 0:44:41.680 --> 0:44:45.640 we've built on top of. Right, Jordan Peele, I'm realizing 0:44:45.719 --> 0:44:48.279 everything I just said. Jordanville has obviously said a much 0:44:48.320 --> 0:44:52.120 more intelligent version of so I just wanted to read 0:44:52.160 --> 0:44:56.000 a quote from him that there's a few different reads. 0:44:56.000 --> 0:44:59.440 It's kind of funny because it's I wonder if you 0:44:59.560 --> 0:45:01.600 both feel same way. I felt like when the movie 0:45:01.719 --> 0:45:05.160 first came out, it was a little harder to find 0:45:05.400 --> 0:45:08.840 quotes where Jordan's Peel was explicitly saying like, well, this 0:45:08.920 --> 0:45:10.560 is what I was trying to do, because he seemed 0:45:10.600 --> 0:45:14.120 to want the audience to have the discussion. And then 0:45:14.560 --> 0:45:18.040 but there are like, in the year since I have 0:45:18.400 --> 0:45:20.759 read about it, he's talked about it pretty extensively, and 0:45:20.800 --> 0:45:23.799 now it feels like his um his thesis statement is 0:45:23.800 --> 0:45:25.760 out there where it kind of wasn't at the beginning. 0:45:26.200 --> 0:45:29.480 But to continue the quote I was reading from earlier, 0:45:29.520 --> 0:45:35.279 which is from UH the Like DVD of Us. So 0:45:35.320 --> 0:45:37.400 he says, one of the central themes in US is 0:45:37.440 --> 0:45:39.520 that we can do a good job collectively of ignoring 0:45:39.520 --> 0:45:42.400 the ramifications of privilege. I think it's the idea that 0:45:42.440 --> 0:45:45.200 we that what we feel like we deserve comes, you know, 0:45:45.360 --> 0:45:48.480 at the expense of someone else's freedom or joy. You know, 0:45:48.520 --> 0:45:50.759 the biggest disservice we can do as a faction with 0:45:50.880 --> 0:45:53.520 a collective privilege like the United States is to presume 0:45:53.560 --> 0:45:55.799 that we deserve it and that it isn't luck that 0:45:55.880 --> 0:45:58.319 has us born where we're born. For us to have 0:45:58.360 --> 0:46:01.560 our privilege, someone suffers. That's where the tethered connection I 0:46:01.600 --> 0:46:04.200 think resonates the most is that those who suffer and 0:46:04.239 --> 0:46:06.879 those who prosper are two sides of the same coin. 0:46:07.200 --> 0:46:09.120 You can never forget that we need to fight for 0:46:09.200 --> 0:46:14.040 the less fortunate. So that is kind of his thesis statement, 0:46:14.080 --> 0:46:19.520 which also makes the doppelganger even more resonant and cool, 0:46:19.560 --> 0:46:22.040 and it like really hits on that point of like 0:46:22.520 --> 0:46:27.520 we are no different. It's like what made uh Lupete 0:46:27.560 --> 0:46:31.440 who lives above ground and Lupeta who lives below ground different? 0:46:32.040 --> 0:46:35.200 Not much, to the point where when they swapped, no 0:46:35.239 --> 0:46:37.680 one knew, like, no one noticed, and it was like 0:46:37.800 --> 0:46:42.120 the circumstance that they were born into that shaped who 0:46:42.120 --> 0:46:44.600 they became in so many ways. Right, you get the 0:46:44.640 --> 0:46:49.279 sense that it it just took red after emerging back 0:46:49.360 --> 0:46:53.560 above ground. And sorry, yeah, I keep saying upstairs, lupetea downstairs. 0:46:54.360 --> 0:46:58.280 I get what you mean. Um, she basically it seems 0:46:58.320 --> 0:47:01.040 like it takes her maybe a few weeks or months 0:47:01.080 --> 0:47:05.279 to assimilate, but she starts dancing, and she starts like 0:47:05.520 --> 0:47:10.640 I suppose, learning to speak, and and then she is 0:47:10.760 --> 0:47:18.399 indistinguishable from all the other upstairs people, the nontethered you know. So, yeah, 0:47:18.440 --> 0:47:20.560 it's just commentary and like if you were in a 0:47:20.640 --> 0:47:25.279 position of privilege, if you have access to things that 0:47:25.400 --> 0:47:28.919 you need to be a boat called the bet the 0:47:29.000 --> 0:47:36.280 what is it? The crowd beyond? Yeah, I always forget. 0:47:36.320 --> 0:47:38.799 That's another thing that I just like always forget. And 0:47:38.800 --> 0:47:40.799 then I see it again. I was like, oh, right, 0:47:40.920 --> 0:47:44.239 that's the name of Tim Hidecker's boat. I love the 0:47:44.280 --> 0:47:48.359 competition that sort of happens between Winston Duke and Tim 0:47:48.440 --> 0:47:52.399 Hidecker and these two families, and just even above ground, 0:47:52.480 --> 0:47:55.200 before we really get to the underground people the levels 0:47:55.239 --> 0:47:58.520 of privilege between them, and they're both these middle class families, 0:47:58.520 --> 0:48:01.120 Like there's no no one can argue that the Wilsons 0:48:01.120 --> 0:48:03.720 are not doing well. They have a summer home, their kids, 0:48:03.719 --> 0:48:06.759 they drug the Mercedes, their their kids are doing after 0:48:06.800 --> 0:48:11.480 school activities and magic tricks and fun things like they're okay. 0:48:11.920 --> 0:48:14.080 They have I love the sticker that they have on 0:48:14.120 --> 0:48:16.600 the back of the car. That's like their little family sticker, 0:48:17.520 --> 0:48:19.960 which I don't understand what anybody has those, because then 0:48:19.960 --> 0:48:22.840 people know they can follow you and then murder your children. 0:48:22.920 --> 0:48:26.160 That's how I think that's how the Tethered found them. 0:48:26.440 --> 0:48:28.960 They're like that this this is the family. They have 0:48:29.040 --> 0:48:30.759 the sticker, and this is how we know that they 0:48:30.800 --> 0:48:33.680 live here. They shouldn't have been giving away their coordinates 0:48:33.719 --> 0:48:36.280 like that. I think about that every time I post, 0:48:36.520 --> 0:48:39.560 Like back in the before times when you would post 0:48:39.960 --> 0:48:42.480 as like a comic, you would just post your location 0:48:42.600 --> 0:48:45.400 every single night. I'm just like, this would be a 0:48:45.400 --> 0:48:49.080 great way to get killed, like just thinking out out 0:48:49.600 --> 0:48:52.520 or like the blame ring. That's how the blame ring 0:48:52.640 --> 0:48:55.160 happened in real life because celebrities would be like going 0:48:55.200 --> 0:48:58.120 on vacation, and then those teenage kids from the valley 0:48:58.120 --> 0:49:02.919 were like, what if we robbed Paris, they'll to him anyway. 0:49:02.960 --> 0:49:07.400 I digress um. I think that I love, though, the 0:49:07.440 --> 0:49:10.160 difference between this white family and this black family that 0:49:10.239 --> 0:49:14.040 are ostensibly the same in that they're both living these privileged, 0:49:14.120 --> 0:49:18.400 middle class American lives, but we see the sort of 0:49:18.520 --> 0:49:21.520 slight disparities and the jealousy and like the nicer boat 0:49:21.880 --> 0:49:24.879 and the newer car and stuff like that, and how 0:49:24.920 --> 0:49:27.919 Winston Duke is just like, well, I really wanna one 0:49:28.000 --> 0:49:30.480 hup him and get to him. It's like I got 0:49:30.480 --> 0:49:32.239 a boat that he has flares on his boat and 0:49:32.280 --> 0:49:34.160 I don't have flares on my boat. And I thought 0:49:34.200 --> 0:49:36.480 it was kind of also a fun touch that it's 0:49:36.520 --> 0:49:38.759 like the families get along, but they don't seem to 0:49:38.840 --> 0:49:44.480 actually like each other that much, Like, yeah, they don't. 0:49:44.480 --> 0:49:46.719 They're not close that you get the sense that they 0:49:46.760 --> 0:49:49.839 see each other once a year when they're both vacationing 0:49:49.920 --> 0:49:55.080 together and that's it. And also, Okay, so I was 0:49:55.120 --> 0:49:58.479 thinking about this where the Wilsons seem to own their 0:49:58.520 --> 0:50:01.879 family home, but I think the other family of Kitty 0:50:01.920 --> 0:50:04.680 and Josh, they're like air being being or like they 0:50:04.680 --> 0:50:07.200 have a time share something because he says like, we 0:50:07.239 --> 0:50:09.120 need to get out of here. So even though it's 0:50:09.120 --> 0:50:12.960 a nicer house, it's like it's almost like the illusion 0:50:13.040 --> 0:50:16.280 of them doing better because they have their only renting 0:50:16.920 --> 0:50:19.400 this nicer house for a short amount of time because 0:50:19.400 --> 0:50:20.919 he's like, oh, we have to be out of here 0:50:20.960 --> 0:50:24.440 by ten am tomorrow, as if it's a rental versus 0:50:25.040 --> 0:50:27.000 the Wilson's owning that. So it's like, I don't know, 0:50:27.040 --> 0:50:29.919 it's like there's a there's this illusion that they're doing better, 0:50:29.960 --> 0:50:33.200 but maybe they aren't even interesting. I didn't read that 0:50:33.280 --> 0:50:36.400 as an Airbnb rental. I read that as a kids 0:50:36.440 --> 0:50:40.200 take too long, I have a meeting I need to 0:50:41.320 --> 0:50:44.160 so less is a checkout time, and more as a alright, 0:50:44.800 --> 0:50:47.799 Gremlins could be that, but I didn't think about it 0:50:47.840 --> 0:50:51.719 that way, and I think that could be true. Yeah, yeah, 0:50:51.840 --> 0:50:55.759 that's I suppose open to interpretation. Like much of the movie, Yeah, 0:50:55.800 --> 0:51:00.719 I like the kind of like subtle freak shin that 0:51:00.840 --> 0:51:05.200 you see between these families where especially between the two 0:51:05.760 --> 0:51:09.520 uh fathers, where I don't know, I mean, I feel 0:51:09.520 --> 0:51:11.920 like it's something you see, but especially because it's between 0:51:12.120 --> 0:51:14.800 a white middle class family and a black middle class family. 0:51:15.400 --> 0:51:18.480 That friction there's like kind of another dimension to it 0:51:18.840 --> 0:51:21.440 as well, and it's not one I've ever you really 0:51:21.480 --> 0:51:25.480 see in movies that much at all. That's to me. 0:51:25.640 --> 0:51:30.280 Gabe is a very interesting character because, like was mentioned, 0:51:30.920 --> 0:51:34.439 when the Tethered first show up and invade their home, 0:51:35.120 --> 0:51:39.719 Gabe he's like trying to reason with them and saying like, 0:51:40.160 --> 0:51:42.120 we don't have much here. This is our summer home. 0:51:42.160 --> 0:51:43.879 But you can have my wallet, you can have my money, 0:51:43.920 --> 0:51:45.239 we can go to an a t m. You can 0:51:45.239 --> 0:51:47.120 have the car, you can have the boat. You know. 0:51:47.200 --> 0:51:51.239 He's trying to like his values are these like material possessions, 0:51:51.239 --> 0:51:53.080 and that's what he thinks is going to be valuable 0:51:53.480 --> 0:51:55.279 to the Tethers, and they're just like, I don't give 0:51:55.280 --> 0:51:58.560 a ship about your money, Like we're here to kill 0:51:58.640 --> 0:52:02.880 you know. We want to end this connection that's been happening. 0:52:02.880 --> 0:52:07.040 That you've been bullissfully unaware of the friction between these 0:52:07.040 --> 0:52:09.560 two families. Makes me wonder how they know each other 0:52:10.080 --> 0:52:13.000 because I don't think it's from college, which is kind 0:52:13.040 --> 0:52:17.799 of the generic assumption, because Winston Duke's character gave he 0:52:17.880 --> 0:52:23.120 has a Howard university sweatshirt on, and something about Tim 0:52:23.160 --> 0:52:26.160 Heidecker's character just doesn't read to me as white person 0:52:26.200 --> 0:52:31.160 who went to Howard. It just I'm not getting that vibe. 0:52:32.040 --> 0:52:36.040 Can you imagine that wasn't the case. I would be 0:52:36.120 --> 0:52:39.560 fascinated to see that first semester, just that one. I 0:52:39.600 --> 0:52:41.719 don't want to see anything beyond that, And I hope 0:52:41.760 --> 0:52:44.800 there's a transfer after that, not because of white people, 0:52:45.120 --> 0:52:51.359 because of that particular white person. Um So, I was 0:52:51.360 --> 0:52:53.439 curious because, like you said, it seemed like they see 0:52:53.440 --> 0:52:57.680 each other annually, because there's that line that Addie has 0:52:57.719 --> 0:52:59.200 where she says, you look the same as you did 0:52:59.320 --> 0:53:03.440 last year when the plastic surgery is discussed. So it's like, 0:53:03.520 --> 0:53:07.640 who are these people to each other and what is 0:53:07.680 --> 0:53:10.680 the positive of their relationship because it just seems like 0:53:10.719 --> 0:53:15.520 they're there to compete. That is Yeah, like it, I 0:53:15.920 --> 0:53:19.759 really I never really, like thought about their relationships to 0:53:19.800 --> 0:53:23.360 each other too too much before preparing for this episode. 0:53:23.560 --> 0:53:26.719 And even it's like the kids, clearly they have no 0:53:26.880 --> 0:53:29.680 interest in each other, Like the twins only talk to 0:53:29.719 --> 0:53:34.840 each other. They're like Jason's weird. Yeah, they're they're clearly 0:53:35.000 --> 0:53:40.120 not even like Summertime friends. And Zora like has her 0:53:40.160 --> 0:53:43.439 headphones and she has no interest in the chaotic high 0:53:43.440 --> 0:53:48.880 Decker twins or whatever. Uh so it is like it is. 0:53:49.320 --> 0:53:51.400 And also it's kind of she does not hesitate to 0:53:52.000 --> 0:53:58.320 kill the ship out of them when they're She definitely 0:53:58.719 --> 0:54:03.160 was like getting some Catharsis from killing these twins. Yeah, 0:54:04.080 --> 0:54:07.320 I mean, based on what we see of those twins, 0:54:07.360 --> 0:54:14.080 I get it. Yeah. Yeah. And and the relationship between Um, 0:54:14.400 --> 0:54:19.600 Adelaide and Kitty I also think is pretty interesting where 0:54:20.160 --> 0:54:22.319 I mean again, it's like they don't have I think 0:54:22.600 --> 0:54:26.000 Kitty is like kind of doing a fakey attempt to 0:54:26.040 --> 0:54:30.439 connect with Adelaide Um, and I kind of appreciate Adelaide's like, yeah, 0:54:30.440 --> 0:54:34.359 I don't Yeah, we don't have to be chatting right now. 0:54:35.040 --> 0:54:37.560 But I like, I thought it was kind of cool 0:54:37.640 --> 0:54:42.800 that there was some commentary into how particularly Kitty story 0:54:42.920 --> 0:54:45.040 plays out. I feel like, more so than anyone else 0:54:45.440 --> 0:54:47.360 than anyone else in the Tyler family, I feel like 0:54:47.400 --> 0:54:50.400 Kitty is the one character that you kind of see 0:54:50.480 --> 0:54:54.520 something in her tether that is like reflective of like, oh, 0:54:54.560 --> 0:54:57.360 if we're seeing this as like the haves and the 0:54:57.440 --> 0:55:03.000 have nots on which America is built, the scene where 0:55:03.320 --> 0:55:09.879 Kitty's tether whose name is Dahlia, pretty name. Uh so 0:55:10.520 --> 0:55:14.440 Dahlia has this moment where we heard earlier that Kitty 0:55:14.480 --> 0:55:18.320 has had like some work done. Whatever judgment isn't passed 0:55:18.560 --> 0:55:21.880 either way, but it just is a fact um. But 0:55:21.960 --> 0:55:26.280 then um, Dahlia, who has been playing out the actions 0:55:26.320 --> 0:55:30.239 of Kitty her entire existence were assuming like, finally has 0:55:30.320 --> 0:55:33.120 that moment of like holding that lip gloss and it 0:55:33.160 --> 0:55:36.520 looks really scary, and like Elizabeth Moss is scary as 0:55:36.600 --> 0:55:39.839 hell in this role, and I just I love her. 0:55:39.920 --> 0:55:42.480 She I really like her in this movie as well. 0:55:42.560 --> 0:55:46.120 But you get that moment of like, oh, this is 0:55:46.200 --> 0:55:49.600 what I have been suffering for, is for this other 0:55:49.680 --> 0:55:52.359 woman to look like this, And then you see her 0:55:52.400 --> 0:55:54.680 cut her face open, which I'm pretty sure it's a 0:55:54.719 --> 0:55:59.879 reference to Kitty's procedures, and like it all every time 0:55:59.880 --> 0:56:02.160 I look at that seeing I'm like, okay, girl Joker, 0:56:02.200 --> 0:56:05.160 we get it, but like, uh, do you want to 0:56:05.160 --> 0:56:07.799 know how I got these guys? But it is a 0:56:07.800 --> 0:56:10.879 little bit girl Joker the way it plays out, yea, oh, 0:56:10.920 --> 0:56:13.880 it is very girl Joker, like very dark knight girl Joker. 0:56:13.960 --> 0:56:17.200 But I yeah, noticing the scars on her face. The 0:56:17.239 --> 0:56:19.759 second time I watched the movie, I was like, Oh, 0:56:19.960 --> 0:56:24.439 she had to do her own plastic surgery underground. That's terrifying, right, 0:56:24.600 --> 0:56:28.240 And I always get a little like if he around 0:56:28.760 --> 0:56:34.920 uh male filmmakers making comments on women getting plastic surgery. 0:56:35.000 --> 0:56:37.680 But it didn't feel I don't know, I certainly I 0:56:37.719 --> 0:56:39.880 don't know. I didn't end up being really bothered by it. 0:56:39.920 --> 0:56:42.400 In this particular movie. It didn't feel to me like 0:56:42.400 --> 0:56:45.520 a judgment of plastic surgery. It felt more of a 0:56:45.640 --> 0:56:49.799 judgment on these layers and how if you choose to 0:56:49.800 --> 0:56:52.759 do this to yourself, do you think about the consequence 0:56:52.800 --> 0:56:55.520 to the other person. So it was less about like 0:56:55.600 --> 0:56:59.800 objective surgery bad surgery good, and more um consequences that 0:57:01.440 --> 0:57:08.239 thinking and conscientiousness good. Good. Right, let's take another quick 0:57:08.280 --> 0:57:16.400 break and then we'll come right back. I wanted to 0:57:16.440 --> 0:57:20.040 talk a bit about just kind of like the characters 0:57:20.080 --> 0:57:25.600 as individuals, starting with Addie, coming at it just from 0:57:25.640 --> 0:57:30.520 a what do the characters do in the story as 0:57:30.560 --> 0:57:33.760 it pertains to like their actions in the context of 0:57:33.800 --> 0:57:37.080 being in this horror movie, because and we've talked about 0:57:37.120 --> 0:57:40.880 this on various episodes in the past, where women in 0:57:40.960 --> 0:57:44.160 horror movies will kind of be stripped of agency a 0:57:44.160 --> 0:57:48.800 lot of the time, or they'll be and again I'm 0:57:48.800 --> 0:57:53.080 always like worried about sounding victim blaming when I talk 0:57:53.160 --> 0:57:55.560 about this, but they'll they'll be like kind of flailing 0:57:55.600 --> 0:57:57.919 around and there's a killer right there, and they seem 0:57:58.080 --> 0:58:02.680 completely oblivious of their impending doom and just like different 0:58:02.760 --> 0:58:05.800 things like that where female characters were often just written 0:58:05.840 --> 0:58:10.400 to seem oblivious of their surroundings for whatever reason, and 0:58:10.440 --> 0:58:13.360 then they get killed about it. So this is sort 0:58:13.400 --> 0:58:20.640 of here what we're used to seeing as horror going audiences. 0:58:20.920 --> 0:58:27.640 So that you have Addie taking charge and making active 0:58:27.800 --> 0:58:32.720 choices and knowing what danger she's in and knowing anticipating 0:58:32.720 --> 0:58:35.640 what's going to happen, and we see her fighting and 0:58:36.160 --> 0:58:40.120 we see her, you know, knowing that there there's this 0:58:40.320 --> 0:58:44.520 scary family outside, let's call the cops immediately. Meanwhile, Gabe 0:58:44.600 --> 0:58:47.320 is like, no, I'm gonna go out there. I'm gonna 0:58:47.360 --> 0:58:51.400 exert my you know, masculinity at them and maybe scare 0:58:51.440 --> 0:58:53.600 them off. And then that doesn't work, so then he 0:58:53.640 --> 0:58:56.240 goes out again, this time with a weg Bin breaks 0:58:56.280 --> 0:59:00.720 his leg and gets his knee broken, right, So like meanwhile, 0:59:00.880 --> 0:59:04.120 like ADDIE's like I've already called the cops and we 0:59:04.200 --> 0:59:06.040 know that that's not going to do anything, of course, 0:59:06.080 --> 0:59:08.480 and then of course that they cops never show up 0:59:08.480 --> 0:59:11.280 in this movie. Well, I think they all got stabbed 0:59:11.320 --> 0:59:14.080 by Tether's in the cops defense, Like there was a 0:59:14.120 --> 0:59:17.560 lot happening. I think that all if it had just 0:59:17.640 --> 0:59:20.200 been one family that had Tethers to come, and I 0:59:20.240 --> 0:59:23.680 think the cops maybe would have come eventually eventually, like 0:59:23.760 --> 0:59:28.600 two later perhaps, But I do think it is cool, 0:59:28.680 --> 0:59:34.160 and especially the dynamic between Gabe and Adelaide, where I 0:59:34.200 --> 0:59:36.080 think that he has and we were kind of talking 0:59:36.080 --> 0:59:38.760 about it with how he relates to Tim Heidecker's character, 0:59:39.040 --> 0:59:42.800 but he definitely has like this need to appear to 0:59:42.920 --> 0:59:47.320 be the dominant figure in the family, when if you know, 0:59:47.440 --> 0:59:49.760 the second you want to the family interact, you know 0:59:50.040 --> 0:59:52.760 that Adelaide is the one that makes the decisions, and 0:59:53.440 --> 0:59:55.800 the way their relationship is is like she doesn't necessarily 0:59:55.840 --> 0:59:59.840 need the credit for making the decisions, but she's making them, 1:00:00.040 --> 1:00:03.840 and that is like how how the story plays out 1:00:04.120 --> 1:00:09.600 down to like those subtle moments that happened between Gabe 1:00:09.600 --> 1:00:12.800 and Adelaide, and then also happens right before the Tethers 1:00:12.880 --> 1:00:15.720 arrived at the other house, at the Tyler House, where 1:00:16.520 --> 1:00:20.800 wife goes to her husband and says, something isn't right. 1:00:21.080 --> 1:00:23.840 I know, something isn't right. Something is going to go wrong, 1:00:23.920 --> 1:00:26.920 and then the husband is like, baby, baby, baby, relax, 1:00:27.040 --> 1:00:29.880 everything's fine, everything's great, it's good. Let's listen to the 1:00:29.920 --> 1:00:32.600 beach boys, and or let's just go to sleep or 1:00:32.720 --> 1:00:35.880 whatever it is. And which is I mean, I guess 1:00:35.920 --> 1:00:38.120 kind of like a horror classic of like don't believe 1:00:38.160 --> 1:00:42.720 women and then immediately get killed or injured, which I 1:00:42.880 --> 1:00:47.040 think there's a converse of that between Adelaide and Gabe, 1:00:47.120 --> 1:00:50.680 which I found was I thought was really interesting and thoughtless, 1:00:50.720 --> 1:00:55.720 handled better than what we see in most movies where so, 1:00:55.920 --> 1:00:58.120 you know, a lot of movies will have something that 1:00:58.200 --> 1:01:01.960 happens out of this world and that would be difficult 1:01:02.040 --> 1:01:05.720 to believe, probably by most people. It happens to the character, 1:01:05.920 --> 1:01:08.960 the character tells someone else about it, and then because 1:01:08.960 --> 1:01:11.440 it is difficult to believe, the other character is always 1:01:11.480 --> 1:01:16.360 like I don't believe you, and I and classic yep, 1:01:16.480 --> 1:01:20.160 amazing performance by me, Thank you so much. This happens 1:01:20.160 --> 1:01:24.160 with Adelaide where she's like, Gabe, I, as a kid, 1:01:24.320 --> 1:01:27.600 I had this experience. I feel like this person is 1:01:27.680 --> 1:01:31.360 coming after me. She's I feel like she's getting closer, 1:01:31.400 --> 1:01:34.480 and he's a little dismissive where he's like, well, you 1:01:34.480 --> 1:01:35.880 know you were in a house of mirrors. Are you 1:01:35.960 --> 1:01:38.240 sure it wasn't your reflection? And she's like, no, it 1:01:38.360 --> 1:01:42.120 was real. She's explaining all this stuff and then she realized. 1:01:42.240 --> 1:01:45.040 She's like, you don't believe me, and he's like I do. 1:01:45.160 --> 1:01:48.800 I'm just processing and I can't believe you kept this 1:01:48.920 --> 1:01:51.840 inside for so long. And then he makes a really 1:01:52.520 --> 1:01:57.320 joke in bad taste about it, like a domestic violence joke, 1:01:58.040 --> 1:02:00.920 and then he's like, oh, that was a bad joke. Sorry, 1:02:01.080 --> 1:02:04.160 just trying to lighten the mood. And I feel like that. 1:02:04.520 --> 1:02:07.760 I just liked that exchange because in most cases you 1:02:07.880 --> 1:02:09.919 just get like you'd be like, I don't believe you. 1:02:09.920 --> 1:02:15.040 You're being hysterical or whatever, and then there's no possible 1:02:15.080 --> 1:02:18.840 way that happened. What are you crazy? Should I call 1:02:18.920 --> 1:02:24.840 the doctor? Yeah? But then Gabe, Gabe comes at it. 1:02:24.880 --> 1:02:27.440 I feel like kiss. Caitlin and I have talked about 1:02:27.440 --> 1:02:32.360 this a bunch of like how sometimes when male character 1:02:32.440 --> 1:02:36.160 is being dismissive towards a woman or being kind of cruel, 1:02:36.480 --> 1:02:38.920 whether they mean to or not, that it's presented in 1:02:38.920 --> 1:02:43.040 a very broadway that male viewer could not really see 1:02:43.040 --> 1:02:46.800 themselves in. But in this it's like, I mean, I've 1:02:46.840 --> 1:02:50.720 been in that type of situation recently of just like 1:02:50.760 --> 1:02:54.000 someone being like that's okay, No, it's like what, I 1:02:54.000 --> 1:02:56.320 don't know what it's a soft nag. I don't know 1:02:56.360 --> 1:02:59.480 what I would call this situation, sure, but but something 1:02:59.480 --> 1:03:04.640 that is certain the recognizable behavior. So he's not dismissive, 1:03:04.720 --> 1:03:07.400 but he is. He's like he says, he's processing, he's 1:03:07.440 --> 1:03:10.480 trying to figure out what this could have been. And 1:03:10.520 --> 1:03:13.600 then two seconds later he would have to realize that 1:03:13.640 --> 1:03:16.760 she is was telling the truth and this did happen 1:03:16.800 --> 1:03:19.240 to her because who shows up on their doorstep but 1:03:19.320 --> 1:03:22.320 a family that looks exactly like them. So yeah, I 1:03:22.360 --> 1:03:25.120 just I thought that was interesting that way that was handled. 1:03:25.200 --> 1:03:27.000 It felt like it was handled with a lot more 1:03:27.320 --> 1:03:31.200 nuanced than it normally is. So I appreciated that. And 1:03:31.760 --> 1:03:35.440 Vincent Duke just is great. He's so he's like the 1:03:35.520 --> 1:03:39.560 funniest perform Like it just he's great, he's amazing. But 1:03:39.720 --> 1:03:43.080 in terms of Adelaide making decisions and not needing credit 1:03:43.120 --> 1:03:46.720 for them, I thought that was spot on. And we 1:03:46.880 --> 1:03:49.960 see sort of a reversal from that when they're in 1:03:50.240 --> 1:03:52.960 Josh and Kitty's house and he's like, we should stay here. 1:03:53.320 --> 1:03:57.320 We've got the backup generator, we've got food, We're safe, 1:03:57.720 --> 1:04:00.440 and she's like, really, are we safe? You don't get 1:04:00.440 --> 1:04:03.200 to make the decisions anymore. And she's like, I've been 1:04:03.240 --> 1:04:06.280 making decisions, and I've been fine with letting you think 1:04:06.360 --> 1:04:08.720 that it's happening. But she's just like, this is enough. 1:04:08.960 --> 1:04:12.040 I'm not going to die for your masculinity. We're going 1:04:12.080 --> 1:04:15.760 to take my advice and we're going to Mexico. Because 1:04:15.840 --> 1:04:19.240 his pitch was like, let's do home alone. Let's set 1:04:19.360 --> 1:04:23.000 some traps, do home alone thing. And she's like, really, 1:04:23.040 --> 1:04:25.640 did you just really reference home alone right now? And 1:04:25.640 --> 1:04:27.640 then of course the kids are like, what's home alone? 1:04:27.680 --> 1:04:30.560 What are micro machines? The kids are like, we are young, 1:04:30.680 --> 1:04:35.800 that is old. What is reference? It's like, really, you 1:04:35.840 --> 1:04:38.280 don't know what home alone is? Everyone knows what home alone. 1:04:38.440 --> 1:04:40.640 I was working with the kid once who was in 1:04:40.680 --> 1:04:43.960 I think ninth grade, last year. So he's like sixteen, 1:04:44.280 --> 1:04:46.920 had never seen The Little Mermaid, had never heard of 1:04:46.920 --> 1:04:52.040 the Little Mermaid. So yeah, and I was astonished. Yeah, 1:04:52.160 --> 1:04:55.120 I was like, one, this is a classic, but it's 1:04:55.200 --> 1:04:59.880 also very old. At this point, it's stated, yeah it's generating. Damn, 1:05:00.320 --> 1:05:03.200 we are simply old. So I believe they didn't know 1:05:03.200 --> 1:05:07.720 what Hamelan was there there is. And then I on 1:05:07.800 --> 1:05:11.640 the inverse of that, I like how I mean. I 1:05:11.840 --> 1:05:14.520 I think the child actors in this movie are really 1:05:14.560 --> 1:05:18.480 really talented and well directed. But even the way those 1:05:18.560 --> 1:05:22.800 characters are written, I felt like was unusual in a way. 1:05:22.840 --> 1:05:25.960 I really liked where I feel because you sort of 1:05:26.000 --> 1:05:29.080 get to know who Adelaide and Gabe are pretty quickly. 1:05:29.800 --> 1:05:32.880 I liked that it seemed like their daughter kind of 1:05:32.920 --> 1:05:36.360 took after Gabe a little more, and that Jason took 1:05:36.400 --> 1:05:38.440 a little more after Adelaide. I feel like that is 1:05:38.480 --> 1:05:40.480 not something you see in movies a lot. It's usually 1:05:40.560 --> 1:05:43.840 like daughter is like mother, son is like father, because 1:05:44.400 --> 1:05:48.520 gender binary where you can see I think, especially in Zora, 1:05:48.640 --> 1:05:52.080 you can see like both of her parents um, and 1:05:52.120 --> 1:05:57.160 then in in Jason, to have a younger son character 1:05:57.520 --> 1:06:02.480 who is like very sensitive and seems like resembles a lot. 1:06:02.520 --> 1:06:05.919 I think it's just kind of very much like how 1:06:06.080 --> 1:06:08.640 Addie was when she was a kid. I thought was 1:06:08.680 --> 1:06:10.720 really cool. You don't usually get to see a mother's 1:06:10.720 --> 1:06:15.240 son relationship that is like a mirror in in that way. 1:06:15.480 --> 1:06:18.200 Usually I feel like it's a little more gender like 1:06:18.640 --> 1:06:22.320 normative and strict about who resembles who in their actions. 1:06:22.560 --> 1:06:25.800 For sure, I think the fact that Jason is sensitive 1:06:25.840 --> 1:06:28.680 and different in many ways is one of the reasons 1:06:28.760 --> 1:06:32.960 that this big theory has come about where Jason is 1:06:32.960 --> 1:06:36.720 secretly it's heathered and um, I'm wondering if you were 1:06:36.760 --> 1:06:40.160 familiar with that theory and what you two thought about that. 1:06:40.360 --> 1:06:42.760 I read a little bit about it, but as soon 1:06:42.840 --> 1:06:45.640 I was reading in it in the same moment that 1:06:45.720 --> 1:06:49.320 I was also reading that Jordan Peel had completely dismissed 1:06:49.360 --> 1:06:52.439 that as a possibility, so I like, didn't even I'm like, yeah, 1:06:52.480 --> 1:06:55.280 I don't think so. I remember that was one of 1:06:55.280 --> 1:06:58.520 the first, I think one of the first popular theories 1:06:58.560 --> 1:07:01.080 I encounter after see in the movie the first time 1:07:01.120 --> 1:07:06.960 and was like, wait, what what there? It's interesting. I think, like, 1:07:07.080 --> 1:07:09.760 if you like draw that out, it is kind of interesting. 1:07:10.760 --> 1:07:12.720 But I think that yeah, it holds very little water. 1:07:12.800 --> 1:07:17.240 Jordan Peele was like, what, no, stop it. But I 1:07:17.280 --> 1:07:20.640 think it's interesting that this sensitivity and difference instead of 1:07:20.680 --> 1:07:23.440 just being like a sensitive boy was like, no, he 1:07:23.520 --> 1:07:27.280 must be a nightmare person from underground who has been replaced. 1:07:27.840 --> 1:07:32.120 So yeah, I don't like the applications of the theory. Yeah, 1:07:32.160 --> 1:07:35.080 that's how little leeway we're willing to give young boys 1:07:35.080 --> 1:07:38.880 in our society to be sort of soft, right, like 1:07:38.920 --> 1:07:42.240 it has to be has to be a conspiracy. Well, 1:07:42.240 --> 1:07:46.840 speaking of some other gender normative stuff, here's like one 1:07:46.840 --> 1:07:48.960 of the few things that bumped me a little bit 1:07:49.320 --> 1:07:54.240 was so they the family has decided after killing like 1:07:54.360 --> 1:07:57.760 evil Josh and Kitty in that family, add he's like, 1:07:57.800 --> 1:07:59.160 we have to be on the move again. We have 1:07:59.200 --> 1:08:02.520 to leave, we have to run. And they realized they 1:08:02.520 --> 1:08:05.600 don't have the car keys that they need. So Addie 1:08:05.680 --> 1:08:08.880 goes back inside and she realizes that one of the 1:08:08.880 --> 1:08:13.960 twins is still alive. Now Addie is holding a fireplace 1:08:14.360 --> 1:08:19.240 poker tool that we have seen her used before as 1:08:19.280 --> 1:08:22.439 a weapon. She's right by the sink and she so 1:08:22.520 --> 1:08:24.800 she was realizing that one of the twins is about 1:08:24.840 --> 1:08:28.240 to pounce on her, so she grabs a frying pan 1:08:28.479 --> 1:08:32.559 even though she's already holding holding the poker, and then 1:08:32.680 --> 1:08:36.400 uses the frying pan to hit the twin with. And 1:08:36.439 --> 1:08:42.160 we've talked countless times on the podcast about how oftentimes women, 1:08:42.600 --> 1:08:44.920 if they are allowed to fight back or use a 1:08:44.920 --> 1:08:49.080 weapon at all, it is often some sort of domestic item, 1:08:49.320 --> 1:08:53.120 often specifically a frying pan. I will argue that it's 1:08:53.160 --> 1:08:55.439 like I thought that too, But then I'm like, but 1:08:55.479 --> 1:08:58.120 then I was like, wait a second fire poker. I 1:08:58.160 --> 1:09:01.280 mean it's not it's not like as over the top 1:09:01.439 --> 1:09:03.920 as a frying pan, But I'm like, that's kind of 1:09:03.960 --> 1:09:07.760 a household object as well, Like it is, but it 1:09:07.800 --> 1:09:11.320 doesn't have necessarily like the same it's not the gender 1:09:13.840 --> 1:09:16.679 right to me, it felt a little bit more neutral. 1:09:16.800 --> 1:09:19.439 So but then I was like, why was she grab 1:09:19.479 --> 1:09:21.720 a frying pan? She's already holding this weapon, which she 1:09:21.760 --> 1:09:25.799 continues to hold and fight like that's how she kills 1:09:26.800 --> 1:09:29.080 that's what she uses to fight red with at the 1:09:29.240 --> 1:09:33.280 end and stuff. So I think that it's interesting because yes, 1:09:33.320 --> 1:09:36.120 they are both household items, and one could argue like 1:09:36.479 --> 1:09:39.360 in terms of like Goddess of the hearth and like 1:09:39.640 --> 1:09:43.439 fires are also historically in some cultures very feminine and 1:09:43.479 --> 1:09:48.720 like keeping your house warm. But the fire poker was 1:09:49.040 --> 1:09:52.280 an item of necessity that she was able to grab 1:09:52.360 --> 1:09:56.519 while she was tethered to the coffee table, and so 1:09:56.640 --> 1:10:00.679 like that she used that to extract herself from danger 1:10:00.800 --> 1:10:03.080 and then continue to use that. So I was like 1:10:03.120 --> 1:10:04.920 fine with that. I was like, this is what you 1:10:04.920 --> 1:10:07.360 were able to grab. But then having that already, then 1:10:07.400 --> 1:10:11.400 grabbing the frying pan definitely read is weird because it's like, 1:10:12.120 --> 1:10:15.719 you have a thing in your hand, why another weapon? 1:10:15.920 --> 1:10:19.600 And it's like her signature weapon too. Yeah, so it 1:10:19.720 --> 1:10:23.040 was just like why what a weird choice, especially because again, 1:10:23.080 --> 1:10:27.280 I mean we could ratle off several movies right now 1:10:27.320 --> 1:10:30.360 where a woman uses a frying pan specifically, we see 1:10:30.360 --> 1:10:33.040 it and Tangled, we see it in Roger Rabbit, we 1:10:33.080 --> 1:10:35.479 see it in Raiders of the Last Dark, we see 1:10:35.520 --> 1:10:40.400 it in Shako La, you know, like it's always and 1:10:40.560 --> 1:10:44.519 Alfred Molina's shock. Okay, I got my little alf now 1:10:44.560 --> 1:10:47.360 in my recording area. I have my little Alfred Molina 1:10:47.439 --> 1:10:51.200 at already. I love Alfred Molina. I saw him in 1:10:51.240 --> 1:10:54.000 a play when plays were still a thing, the last 1:10:54.600 --> 1:10:56.839 the last play I ever saw a start. Alfred Molina 1:10:56.920 --> 1:10:59.080 in it. He's great. Wait the last play? Did you 1:10:59.080 --> 1:11:01.920 see the one in passive? I did, Yeah, the Father 1:11:02.240 --> 1:11:05.240 I saw it too. He was so good. He was good. 1:11:05.280 --> 1:11:10.759 Everyone else was okay, everyone else was okay. I don't 1:11:10.800 --> 1:11:13.800 see I don't see a lot of like live like plays, 1:11:13.800 --> 1:11:16.040 but I was so glad I got to see that. 1:11:16.479 --> 1:11:18.799 It was a weird play. I don't know if I 1:11:18.840 --> 1:11:22.560 liked the play. It was weird and sad, and ultimately 1:11:22.560 --> 1:11:25.200 I was like, Okay, I could have not seen this 1:11:25.280 --> 1:11:29.240 and felt better, but it was. It was well acted. 1:11:29.479 --> 1:11:32.680 But anyway, back to the movie, Um, I wanted to 1:11:33.560 --> 1:11:36.400 just really quickly say something that was a reference to 1:11:36.479 --> 1:11:38.840 something I said earlier. So and I because I just 1:11:38.880 --> 1:11:40.519 figured it out in real time. I was like, why 1:11:40.560 --> 1:11:43.800 does this bother me so much? And it's the my 1:11:43.800 --> 1:11:47.519 my criticism of female characters being written in a certain 1:11:47.520 --> 1:11:51.760 way in horror movies where they do seem unaware of 1:11:51.800 --> 1:11:56.000 their surroundings, or that they make questionable choices things like that. 1:11:56.600 --> 1:12:02.360 And this is almost always a male writer director presenting 1:12:02.520 --> 1:12:06.479 female characters this way. And I'll use one of the 1:12:06.479 --> 1:12:09.120 worst horror movies I've ever seen as an example. A 1:12:09.160 --> 1:12:12.439 movie called The Terror Fire, which is about a killer 1:12:12.479 --> 1:12:18.559 clown who reaks havoc around the city and is specifically 1:12:18.600 --> 1:12:21.479 trying to kill this young woman and her friend. I 1:12:21.520 --> 1:12:24.000 would watch it. I will say it would get a 1:12:24.080 --> 1:12:28.920 negative one zillion nipples on the Bechtel cast, so stopped us. 1:12:31.400 --> 1:12:34.240 In that movie, you see the protagonist, who as a woman, 1:12:34.640 --> 1:12:38.280 making countless choice after choice after choice of just you 1:12:38.360 --> 1:12:40.360 as the audience would be like, why would you do that? 1:12:40.400 --> 1:12:43.439 Why would you go back into the scary warehouse where 1:12:43.439 --> 1:12:45.360 you know a killer is Why would you do any 1:12:45.400 --> 1:12:47.920 of what you're doing besides running away and trying to 1:12:47.960 --> 1:12:51.439 find safety? And that is the thing that I take 1:12:51.479 --> 1:12:55.600 issue with because it's like, as women, we are constantly 1:12:55.600 --> 1:12:57.960 on high alert for our safety, right, we know the 1:12:58.080 --> 1:13:03.000 dangers lurking out there, and we're not just like obliviously 1:13:03.160 --> 1:13:07.960 making horrible choices all the time to go into scary 1:13:07.960 --> 1:13:11.439 warehouses where we just almost got murdered. Right. So yeah, 1:13:11.640 --> 1:13:13.280 Like I I just said I wouldn't put one of 1:13:13.320 --> 1:13:15.800 those family stickers on my car because somebody might come 1:13:15.800 --> 1:13:21.280 and murder my family, right, Yeah, we're all on the 1:13:21.320 --> 1:13:24.479 defensive now. I'm like, damn, I hadn't thought about that 1:13:24.640 --> 1:13:27.040 about the stickers, but now I'm off them for life, 1:13:27.320 --> 1:13:29.639 or I'll put a different sticker to throw them off 1:13:29.680 --> 1:13:34.320 my track, right right, Like we have eighteen kids and 1:13:34.320 --> 1:13:38.600 we all have guns, stay away. So yeah, So the 1:13:38.640 --> 1:13:40.760 point is, like I just I get so annoyed when 1:13:40.880 --> 1:13:45.799 like against specifically men who are making horror movies don't 1:13:45.920 --> 1:13:50.080 even know to take into consideration the high alert that 1:13:50.160 --> 1:13:54.599 women have to be on just in everyday life, especially 1:13:54.640 --> 1:13:57.439 at night, you know, and then make the assumption that 1:13:57.520 --> 1:14:02.040 it's irrational at its core. So that's I just wanted 1:14:02.040 --> 1:14:04.360 to clarify because I'm always like I sound so like 1:14:04.520 --> 1:14:07.760 victim blamey no. And I think that's one of the 1:14:07.760 --> 1:14:10.120 reasons that I like the Scream franchise so much, because 1:14:10.120 --> 1:14:14.519 Sidney Prescott is always very aware and hyper aware, and 1:14:14.560 --> 1:14:18.240 she's had multiple killers come after her. So as each 1:14:18.280 --> 1:14:21.240 movie gets on and she becomes smarter and more creative. 1:14:21.320 --> 1:14:23.600 But it's like basically about a woman who continues to 1:14:23.640 --> 1:14:27.160 be stalked and like how she fights against that as 1:14:27.200 --> 1:14:30.120 opposed to like, oh, Ladi da, I'm finding myself in 1:14:30.120 --> 1:14:32.320 this situation, like she becomes a target for these people 1:14:32.320 --> 1:14:35.160 who become obsessed with her, especially after a film about 1:14:35.160 --> 1:14:39.120 her life is made, So I think that that's really intriguing. Also, 1:14:39.120 --> 1:14:41.920 I love the movie Stab, which is the screen movies 1:14:42.080 --> 1:14:47.520 inside the screen movies, um, and I love that inside 1:14:47.560 --> 1:14:49.280 the movie in the fourth screen they have like a 1:14:49.320 --> 1:14:52.920 stab fest. But anyway back to us, I love screen 1:14:53.000 --> 1:14:56.720 and going off what you're saying, Caitlin, I am encouraged 1:14:56.800 --> 1:15:00.920 by seeing movies like us, and even because it's like, 1:15:01.040 --> 1:15:06.880 you know, we can't necessarily stop men from writing movies, right, 1:15:07.200 --> 1:15:09.559 so if we're going off of that, it is nice 1:15:09.600 --> 1:15:12.960 that they seem to be getting a little bit better 1:15:13.000 --> 1:15:15.960 about at least recognizing the tropes of the genre that 1:15:16.080 --> 1:15:19.120 are irrational and harmful and have everything to do with 1:15:19.160 --> 1:15:22.400 their writing versus what the reality is. I feel like 1:15:22.400 --> 1:15:25.080 another example you could point to is the new Halloween movie, 1:15:25.280 --> 1:15:31.160 where you know Laurie Laurie strode Um in the original franchise, 1:15:31.280 --> 1:15:35.439 like her actions are made to seem somewhat irrational, very 1:15:35.479 --> 1:15:38.200 like final girly, and then in the new one you 1:15:38.240 --> 1:15:41.080 see that she's been like living this life of fear 1:15:41.600 --> 1:15:44.760 and like what are the ramifications of that and examining 1:15:45.320 --> 1:15:48.439 at least and it's I will say that horror movies. 1:15:48.600 --> 1:15:52.040 Recent horror movies have done it with mixed results, but 1:15:52.200 --> 1:15:59.120 examining the PTSD aspect of being pursued by something terrifying 1:15:59.280 --> 1:16:03.760 and how that affects you psychologically, I will say that 1:16:03.800 --> 1:16:07.439 I don't think. I don't. There's not a lot of 1:16:07.479 --> 1:16:10.920 horror movies that do it extremely well. The Babba Dick 1:16:11.000 --> 1:16:13.759 comes to mind of like one horror movie that deals 1:16:13.840 --> 1:16:20.040 with PTSD and and just like a fear really really well. 1:16:20.120 --> 1:16:22.639 I thought, or at least when we did the episode, 1:16:22.760 --> 1:16:26.280 wasn't I thought it was postpartum. Yeah, but I mean 1:16:26.320 --> 1:16:31.599 like a form of psychological stress and trauma here in 1:16:31.600 --> 1:16:36.320 in US. I it's kind of muddled for me. Where 1:16:37.439 --> 1:16:43.200 So we see young Addie, who actually is young Red, 1:16:44.320 --> 1:16:47.760 come up to the service and then she's put into 1:16:48.560 --> 1:16:51.640 therapy because she's not speaking. This is perceived to be 1:16:51.720 --> 1:16:55.760 a result of PTSD. It also appears to be a 1:16:55.800 --> 1:17:00.320 stressor on her parents marriage, which is every child of 1:17:00.439 --> 1:17:04.040 divorce is worst fear, although they seemed to have some 1:17:04.120 --> 1:17:08.439 issues before. Also, Oh yeah, because there's like it sounds 1:17:08.479 --> 1:17:11.759 like he you know, like there's there's some drinking going 1:17:11.800 --> 1:17:17.640 on and other other stresses on the relationship. Um, but 1:17:17.720 --> 1:17:19.800 I don't know. I'm curious of like what you both 1:17:19.880 --> 1:17:24.519 made of that plot point. I felt I felt like 1:17:24.560 --> 1:17:29.840 it was less about developing PTSD and more about setting 1:17:29.920 --> 1:17:32.960 up for the reveal. And also I do like that 1:17:33.120 --> 1:17:35.639 it was she was gone for fifteen minutes. What can 1:17:35.680 --> 1:17:39.920 happen in fifteen minutes? And when we are in real 1:17:39.960 --> 1:17:43.200 time and the invasion is happening, Uh, they call the 1:17:43.240 --> 1:17:44.800 police and the police say they will be there in 1:17:44.920 --> 1:17:48.400 fifteen minutes, and we already know what is going to 1:17:48.439 --> 1:17:51.280 happen or what can happen in fifteen minutes. If you're 1:17:51.320 --> 1:17:54.479 rewatching it, you're like, fifteen minutes is not good. You 1:17:54.560 --> 1:17:57.559 need to be there sooner. Bad things can happen. And 1:17:57.600 --> 1:17:59.800 I thought it was interesting that it was the dad 1:18:00.000 --> 1:18:01.800 who was like, what could have happened? It was only 1:18:01.840 --> 1:18:05.200 fifteen minutes, and the mom was like, a lot can 1:18:05.240 --> 1:18:09.280 happen in fifteen minutes, Like ADDIE's mom like knows, and 1:18:09.400 --> 1:18:13.479 that's why she's so concerned for her daughter. Yeah, because 1:18:13.479 --> 1:18:15.160 they have no clue what's happened to her, and it's 1:18:15.240 --> 1:18:19.280 far worse than they could have even imagined, Like they 1:18:19.439 --> 1:18:22.519 don't they never see their daughter again actually, and the 1:18:22.600 --> 1:18:25.479 other the other read that I was and this isn't. 1:18:25.520 --> 1:18:27.840 I don't have this backed up by anywhere. So maybe 1:18:27.880 --> 1:18:34.439 I'm just my brain is just turning into putting over time. Um, 1:18:35.040 --> 1:18:37.800 But I was. I was thinking, um just in terms 1:18:37.880 --> 1:18:42.280 of how it seems like ADDIE's parents want to get 1:18:42.320 --> 1:18:47.840 her help from a therapist. But the pts D, while 1:18:47.880 --> 1:18:50.200 it it's made I feel I feel like it sort 1:18:50.240 --> 1:18:52.040 of ties into what the message of the movie is, 1:18:52.040 --> 1:18:56.080 where it's they're ascribing PTSD to an individual when it 1:18:56.120 --> 1:19:01.040 actually represents something that is far larger, where it's like 1:19:01.080 --> 1:19:05.880 read is representative of this whole unseen population that is 1:19:05.920 --> 1:19:10.680 being actively oppressed and that is where this like stress 1:19:10.720 --> 1:19:13.960 and trauma is coming from. And also she can't communicate 1:19:14.400 --> 1:19:17.400 with her parents and she cannot describe what the problem is. 1:19:17.479 --> 1:19:20.280 And for self preservation issues, even when she has the 1:19:20.280 --> 1:19:23.400 tools to communicate, she doesn't because she wants to thrive 1:19:23.720 --> 1:19:28.519 in ADDIE's place. And I don't know, it's dense. Yeah, 1:19:28.880 --> 1:19:33.840 here's a question. Do we think that Addie when she 1:19:34.000 --> 1:19:37.200 is newly Addie, when she's come from underground, do we 1:19:37.240 --> 1:19:40.600 think that she has repressed the fact that she was 1:19:40.640 --> 1:19:44.040 originally a tethered because I felt like that was supposed 1:19:44.040 --> 1:19:46.880 to be something we were believing. Yeah, I thought that 1:19:47.000 --> 1:19:49.519 was how That's how I thought we were supposed to 1:19:49.520 --> 1:19:52.519 see it. I don't know. I was focused far more 1:19:52.560 --> 1:19:55.360 on and again, maybe this is just me trying to 1:19:55.400 --> 1:19:59.080 make sense of something too hard, but I was focused 1:19:59.120 --> 1:20:03.200 more on, well, why doesn't real Addie, who has now 1:20:03.280 --> 1:20:07.360 been trapped underground and made to live among the tethereds, 1:20:07.360 --> 1:20:10.160 even though she is not a tethered why does she 1:20:10.280 --> 1:20:13.799 never try to escape and just go all? It seems 1:20:13.800 --> 1:20:15.320 like all she would have had to do is like 1:20:15.760 --> 1:20:19.320 run up an escalator that is going in the downward motion, 1:20:19.439 --> 1:20:21.280 But it seems I was like, why doesn't she she 1:20:21.360 --> 1:20:24.479 knows where she comes from, why doesn't she ever try 1:20:24.520 --> 1:20:29.080 to leave this terrifying place? I that was curious for 1:20:29.160 --> 1:20:34.040 me too, because so the tethered are mirrors of what's 1:20:34.080 --> 1:20:35.840 going on above ground. They're doing all the things that 1:20:35.880 --> 1:20:38.679 they're above ground people are doing, and then they switch places. 1:20:39.040 --> 1:20:43.160 So when they switch places, is now underground Addie and 1:20:43.240 --> 1:20:46.000 tethered to above ground Addie. Because there is also the 1:20:46.000 --> 1:20:48.599 speculation that they're sharing one soul, so it's not even 1:20:48.640 --> 1:20:52.080 that they are soulless. It's that they're like everybody's got 1:20:52.120 --> 1:20:55.040 half a soul sort of split between them, So like, 1:20:55.560 --> 1:20:58.840 is the soul stationary and it lives above ground? Like 1:20:58.920 --> 1:21:01.719 what is what the deal? Well, that's what Red seems 1:21:01.800 --> 1:21:04.920 to explain in the when they first invade the home, 1:21:05.280 --> 1:21:07.760 and she's like, I was tethered to you, and that's 1:21:07.760 --> 1:21:11.880 why I'm trying to become untethered, so I I think, 1:21:11.920 --> 1:21:14.639 but yeah, I guess that that's why I don't really 1:21:14.680 --> 1:21:17.360 like the ending. There's so many story logic issues that 1:21:17.439 --> 1:21:21.720 come up for me, and I'm just like, oh, what well, 1:21:21.800 --> 1:21:24.760 And the dance is the big lynchpin. When she's like 1:21:24.760 --> 1:21:27.280 fourteen years old and she has this dance recital where 1:21:27.320 --> 1:21:30.240 she ends up getting injured, and my understanding of that 1:21:30.680 --> 1:21:35.200 was that Red underground version read was able to take 1:21:35.280 --> 1:21:38.919 control during that dance and that's how she was ultimately injured, 1:21:39.200 --> 1:21:40.760 because she has that line where she's like, oh, I 1:21:40.800 --> 1:21:44.240 piked at fourteen with her leg as a dancer, and 1:21:44.840 --> 1:21:47.120 that's when they realized she was special because she could 1:21:47.160 --> 1:21:50.080 control her above ground or she could break from the tethering. 1:21:50.720 --> 1:21:53.519 And I don't understand what that was because they would 1:21:53.520 --> 1:21:56.160 all have to have eventually broken from the tethering to 1:21:56.200 --> 1:21:58.280 be able to even plan this and put on these 1:21:58.560 --> 1:22:03.479 fashionable jumpsuits, so that the moment where everything switches, the 1:22:03.640 --> 1:22:09.559 ending worked for me on this viewing, going with the 1:22:09.600 --> 1:22:13.680 read of the movie that I'm currently going with, um 1:22:13.800 --> 1:22:16.360 in that way, I feel like it really works. Where 1:22:16.400 --> 1:22:20.880 if you're going off of Jordan's Peel's kind of thesis 1:22:21.680 --> 1:22:25.040 that this is a movie about, like you, you know, 1:22:25.080 --> 1:22:29.240 American exceptionalism, like I deserve this lifestyle, this is I'm 1:22:29.400 --> 1:22:33.200 entitled to this, and just kind of I don't know, 1:22:33.320 --> 1:22:37.639 like exploring that fallacy of like, oh there's enough, there's 1:22:37.760 --> 1:22:42.680 enough prosperity to go around, where the reality of what 1:22:42.840 --> 1:22:46.720 I mean, I we've gotten this far without saying capitalism, 1:22:46.800 --> 1:22:50.560 so sorry, but like the reality of like American capitalism 1:22:50.680 --> 1:22:53.080 is that it's designed so that there's not enough room 1:22:53.080 --> 1:22:56.120 for everybody, and so for one person to prosper by 1:22:56.160 --> 1:22:59.160 this movie's logic and buy a lot of reality, another 1:22:59.240 --> 1:23:02.240 person has to be oppressed and suffer. So in that way, 1:23:02.280 --> 1:23:06.640 I felt like the swap ending works if that is 1:23:06.680 --> 1:23:08.720 supposed to be the message of the core, But like 1:23:09.080 --> 1:23:14.280 logistically there's for sure, I'm like, huh what And also 1:23:14.400 --> 1:23:16.280 there every time I do have to say it's an 1:23:16.320 --> 1:23:20.679 incredible line read from Lupete and Youngo. But every time 1:23:21.800 --> 1:23:26.160 reds like we are Americans, I'm like, okay, all right, 1:23:27.360 --> 1:23:31.880 Hitn't it real hard? There? Jordan's Well, that transitions into 1:23:32.560 --> 1:23:37.000 talking point that I wanted to hit on, which is, um, 1:23:37.120 --> 1:23:43.040 the use of disability equals evil in a horror movie. 1:23:43.640 --> 1:23:48.639 This is an enormous, widespread trope because what happened here 1:23:49.000 --> 1:23:53.480 is that Lupeta revealed at some point that as inspiration 1:23:53.640 --> 1:23:58.960 for the way she made Red's voice sound, she used 1:23:59.360 --> 1:24:04.559 the symptoms of spasmodic dysphonia, which is a neurological disorder 1:24:04.600 --> 1:24:09.240 that causes involuntary spasms of the larynx um. And her 1:24:09.479 --> 1:24:15.680 revealing this received understandably backlash. And uh, I'm pulling from 1:24:15.720 --> 1:24:19.759 an article in The Guardian entitled Lupida Nyongo's under fire 1:24:19.960 --> 1:24:25.280 from disability groups for quote evil voice in us SO. 1:24:25.400 --> 1:24:30.040 Respectability is a nonprofit organization that works to fight stigmas 1:24:30.080 --> 1:24:35.400 against people with disabilities. The president of Respectability, Jennifer Laslow 1:24:35.840 --> 1:24:41.679 ms Rahi, said, quote connecting disabilities to characters who are evil. 1:24:41.880 --> 1:24:47.080 Even further marginalizes people with disabilities who also have significant 1:24:47.160 --> 1:24:51.240 abilities and want to contribute to their communities just like 1:24:51.280 --> 1:24:54.200 anyone else dot dot dot. What is difficult for us 1:24:54.240 --> 1:24:57.440 and for the thousands of people living with spasmodic dysphonia 1:24:57.880 --> 1:25:01.559 is this association to their voice with what might be 1:25:01.840 --> 1:25:06.240 considered haunting end quote. So again, this is just another 1:25:06.280 --> 1:25:10.040 movie that describes a disability or a characteristic of a 1:25:10.080 --> 1:25:14.759 disability to a character who is evil, who is violent, 1:25:14.880 --> 1:25:18.599 who murders people. And this isn't just a horror movie thing. 1:25:18.680 --> 1:25:22.120 This happens in action movies. This happens in sci fi movies. 1:25:22.479 --> 1:25:26.200 This happens fantasy a lot ton basically across film in general, 1:25:26.320 --> 1:25:32.479 where disability could be demonize. Yeah, fiction across the world, 1:25:32.680 --> 1:25:37.720 in every aspect, disability will be demonized. I will say 1:25:37.840 --> 1:25:40.280 I love How To Train Your Dragon Too, because I 1:25:40.320 --> 1:25:43.120 feel like it's sort of goes against that where in 1:25:43.160 --> 1:25:45.760 How to Train Your Dragon Too? What's his face? I 1:25:45.840 --> 1:25:49.840 just forgot his name? Hiccup the main character. He has 1:25:49.880 --> 1:25:53.400 lost the leg and he modifies his dragon so that 1:25:53.439 --> 1:25:56.160 he can ride his dragon even with the missing leg. 1:25:56.200 --> 1:25:59.600 And he has like a prosthesis, and the villain of 1:25:59.600 --> 1:26:01.920 How To In Your Dragon Too also has a disability, 1:26:01.960 --> 1:26:04.280 but refuses to accept that their disability is a part 1:26:04.320 --> 1:26:06.360 of who they are, and like that's why they're bad, 1:26:06.960 --> 1:26:10.360 not because of disability. I like, I literally wept when 1:26:10.360 --> 1:26:11.920 I saw How To Train Your Dragon Too. It's like, 1:26:12.000 --> 1:26:17.519 this is beautiful, that they're pretty good, but I mean 1:26:17.560 --> 1:26:22.920 even speaking to how disability is portrayed, and then and 1:26:22.960 --> 1:26:27.479 the fact that it's it's like the demonization of disabled 1:26:27.520 --> 1:26:30.720 people is so normalized that Lupete and Youngo didn't think 1:26:30.760 --> 1:26:35.040 twice about saying that is I mean, it goes I'm 1:26:35.040 --> 1:26:37.040 glad she was called out for that, but it speaks 1:26:37.080 --> 1:26:40.120 to something that is much larger, where it's like, this 1:26:40.200 --> 1:26:45.440 is a horror movie that subverts so many common pitfalls, 1:26:45.960 --> 1:26:50.280 but there still wasn't really thought of or discussion about 1:26:50.320 --> 1:26:54.720 how disability is presented by by the filmmakers or by 1:26:54.720 --> 1:26:57.200 the actors or kind of on any level, which I 1:26:57.240 --> 1:27:00.400 feel like speaks to just how cooked in it is, 1:27:00.479 --> 1:27:03.840 to what is quote unquote okay to do for movie. 1:27:04.240 --> 1:27:08.960 And Lupida apologized, and I have this quote here as well. 1:27:09.120 --> 1:27:12.040 She said, quote it's a very marginal group of people 1:27:12.080 --> 1:27:15.160 who suffer from this, which sidebar. It's like, well, that 1:27:15.200 --> 1:27:17.080 doesn't make it okay. It's almost like, are you saying 1:27:17.120 --> 1:27:21.120 that that makes it okay? That it's only or offended, 1:27:21.200 --> 1:27:23.400 like who are this affected? But it's like I was 1:27:23.520 --> 1:27:29.000 only going to hurt seventeen people to continue the quote. 1:27:29.560 --> 1:27:32.000 The thought that I would in a way offend them 1:27:32.160 --> 1:27:35.679 was not my intention. In my mind, I wasn't interested 1:27:35.720 --> 1:27:39.280 in vilifying or demonizing the condition. I crafted read with 1:27:39.400 --> 1:27:43.080 love and care. As much as it was a genre 1:27:43.120 --> 1:27:45.759 specific world, I really wanted to ground her in something 1:27:45.760 --> 1:27:49.320 that felt real. For all that I say sorry to 1:27:49.400 --> 1:27:54.320 anyone I may have offended. End quote. So I don't 1:27:54.400 --> 1:27:58.599 love this apology. I feel like she's it's kind of 1:27:58.640 --> 1:28:03.280 like well in my the ends, but also I'm sorry, yeah, 1:28:03.479 --> 1:28:06.439 but it's like love and care for how like that's 1:28:06.479 --> 1:28:09.280 such a weird thing to add that the aircrafted red 1:28:09.320 --> 1:28:15.559 with love and care, Like ah that Lupeta. I mean, 1:28:15.840 --> 1:28:18.479 I mean it's like if we're giving I don't know. 1:28:18.640 --> 1:28:22.040 That was like not a great apology, But I do 1:28:22.280 --> 1:28:26.519 hope that, like she's, she is going to carry this forward, 1:28:26.560 --> 1:28:28.760 and I hope that, you know, other actors saw this 1:28:28.840 --> 1:28:32.120 almost we're you know, we'll think twice. It's it's an 1:28:32.120 --> 1:28:34.559 easy It's just again, it's like it's so easy to 1:28:34.720 --> 1:28:38.960 just not do this and be respectful of other people. Um, 1:28:39.000 --> 1:28:42.639 and yeah, it's not like it's usually people's intention to 1:28:42.680 --> 1:28:46.240 demonize things like this, but because, like you said, Jamie, 1:28:46.280 --> 1:28:49.559 it's become so normalized that people just do it without 1:28:49.640 --> 1:28:52.240 even giving it a second thought about who would be 1:28:52.640 --> 1:28:56.240 negatively affected by these kinds of misrepresentations, which is kind 1:28:56.240 --> 1:28:59.360 of fascinating because that's like what the movie is about 1:29:00.600 --> 1:29:05.599 that she's in is like how the whatever upstairs Lupeta 1:29:05.680 --> 1:29:07.800 has nothing but good intentions and is trying to do 1:29:07.880 --> 1:29:11.920 well but is ignoring what is going on elsewhere and 1:29:12.000 --> 1:29:14.240 is willfully ignorant of what's going on elsewhere. And this 1:29:14.280 --> 1:29:16.599 is like, I guess, not a one to one example, 1:29:16.600 --> 1:29:19.520 but a microcosm, but he is not even willfully ignorant. 1:29:19.560 --> 1:29:21.559 I mean maybe, but it's is it comes down to 1:29:21.600 --> 1:29:24.400 the question of is she has she repressed all of 1:29:24.400 --> 1:29:28.519 those memories of when she did live among the tethers 1:29:28.560 --> 1:29:32.760 underground or I guess I'm guess more just like those 1:29:32.840 --> 1:29:36.240 characters in general, not not the swaps well, And the 1:29:36.520 --> 1:29:38.920 frustrating thing for me is that there's also a plot 1:29:38.960 --> 1:29:42.080 based reason for Red to have a voice like that. 1:29:42.560 --> 1:29:46.920 She gets choked, she gets choked out and dragged down there. 1:29:47.160 --> 1:29:51.200 And she also has not spoken English in presumably many 1:29:51.240 --> 1:29:55.360 many years, so she's been using this other language that 1:29:55.520 --> 1:30:00.880 is very throat based, and she has throat injuries. And like, 1:30:01.040 --> 1:30:04.479 I don't understand why it had to be, Oh, there's 1:30:04.520 --> 1:30:07.960 this disease that looks interesting for me to copy. It 1:30:08.280 --> 1:30:10.800 just doesn't make sense because there's so many things that 1:30:10.800 --> 1:30:13.439 are based in the character and in the text that 1:30:13.479 --> 1:30:17.840 would make crafting that more sense. Like I don't could 1:30:17.880 --> 1:30:22.360 have just done an Andy Circus Golemn voice or something. 1:30:23.800 --> 1:30:29.120 I love Andy Circus, Yeah, okay, Circus hive over here. 1:30:30.600 --> 1:30:32.519 It feels like he'd be so much fun to like 1:30:32.640 --> 1:30:34.599 go to a party with and just hang out with 1:30:34.680 --> 1:30:37.000 him the whole time and talk to no one else 1:30:37.040 --> 1:30:39.240 at the party. I got to interview him a couple 1:30:39.280 --> 1:30:42.040 of years ago, and it was I think my favorite 1:30:42.080 --> 1:30:47.240 interview I've ever done with anyone. Just such a pleasant, smart, 1:30:47.640 --> 1:30:51.240 thoughtful I could go on. I spent one hour with him, 1:30:51.240 --> 1:30:52.960 and I just have carried it for like I don't 1:30:52.960 --> 1:30:54.519 even know how long it was. It could have been 1:30:54.520 --> 1:30:57.280 like four years ago. But I was just like he 1:30:57.520 --> 1:31:03.400 was so nice, so my taller than him, exciting. The 1:31:03.479 --> 1:31:05.760 other things I had to mention were kind of I mean, 1:31:05.840 --> 1:31:10.160 I wanted to touch on the music, not really for 1:31:10.880 --> 1:31:13.240 uh intersectional feminism, but just because I think it's really 1:31:13.280 --> 1:31:17.519 fascinating the use of music and um karama, like you 1:31:17.560 --> 1:31:22.599 were saying this composer Michael Ables, I have no idea 1:31:22.640 --> 1:31:24.960 how it's pronounced. I just made a choice and went 1:31:25.040 --> 1:31:28.280 with it. Sorry, Michael, I don't know how to pronounce 1:31:28.280 --> 1:31:31.840 his last name Ables or abouts uh. I mean, his 1:31:32.040 --> 1:31:36.479 composition is incredible. He pulls from just like learning even 1:31:36.520 --> 1:31:41.600 about the music, he pulls from Tchaikovsky for that ending, 1:31:41.800 --> 1:31:46.200 he's like blending. I got five on it with Tchaikovsky, 1:31:46.240 --> 1:31:49.120 and it's like a section of Tchaikovsky from The Nutcracker 1:31:49.479 --> 1:31:52.320 where Clara is being pulled into a mirror world. So 1:31:52.439 --> 1:31:57.160 there's like that whole thing. It's so smart and so cool. 1:31:57.400 --> 1:32:01.479 And I also really liked um that there is a 1:32:01.520 --> 1:32:05.000 black ballerina like a motif in this movie. You like, 1:32:05.120 --> 1:32:07.519 that's like such a rare thing you never get to 1:32:07.560 --> 1:32:11.400 see in movies and especially in professional ballet. That's like 1:32:11.479 --> 1:32:15.280 a huge discussion that is ongoing in the ballet community. 1:32:15.439 --> 1:32:19.000 And I just love ballet in general. The dancing in 1:32:19.000 --> 1:32:26.040 this movie, it's upstairs, downstairs, it's all beautiful. I loved it. Okay, 1:32:26.080 --> 1:32:27.840 I think that that was That was just a small 1:32:27.920 --> 1:32:31.839 rant I saved for the end at least. Thank you, Karma. 1:32:31.880 --> 1:32:34.639 Do you have anything else you wanted to discuss. I 1:32:34.680 --> 1:32:37.880 wanted to just discuss how I think Jordan Peel does 1:32:37.920 --> 1:32:42.720 a really great job of integrating visual clues and like 1:32:42.880 --> 1:32:46.800 just a lot of visual symbols and elevens coming up 1:32:46.840 --> 1:32:50.880 a lot, Like it's the first scene, the first scene 1:32:50.880 --> 1:32:53.640 on the boardwalk. Yes, we have the eleven eleven. We 1:32:53.720 --> 1:32:56.360 have the people playing rock paper scissors who keep doing scissors, 1:32:56.360 --> 1:32:58.160 which is also like a two. There are a lot 1:32:58.160 --> 1:33:03.720 of twos and elevens throughout the movie. Yeah, and uh, 1:33:03.840 --> 1:33:07.559 it's her birthday. She gets number eleven, which is the 1:33:07.600 --> 1:33:10.960 thriller one, which is sort of about the like real 1:33:11.160 --> 1:33:14.720 the like good Michael Jackson turning into the bad Michael Jackson. Uh, 1:33:14.720 --> 1:33:17.599 there's just like a lot that's happening there. When she's 1:33:17.640 --> 1:33:20.240 watching the news, it's like Channel eleven news. You see 1:33:20.240 --> 1:33:24.679 the little elevens um, although they say channel seven I think, 1:33:24.800 --> 1:33:27.240 or they say channel four channel seven instead, but it 1:33:27.240 --> 1:33:29.960 says eleven on the screen, which was like I was like, huh, 1:33:30.080 --> 1:33:35.599 somebody missed that or I'm missing something. Um. And just 1:33:35.680 --> 1:33:40.400 like the ambulance, the ambulance that gets the Jeremiah eleven 1:33:40.439 --> 1:33:44.519 eleven guy at the beginning of like the current day stuff, 1:33:45.000 --> 1:33:47.519 it's ambulance number two, which is the same ambulance that 1:33:47.560 --> 1:33:49.760 they end up getting in and driving away in in 1:33:49.840 --> 1:33:54.560 the end. Um, there's there's so much just with elevens 1:33:54.600 --> 1:33:58.280 and twos that happens there. And like I said, the 1:33:58.280 --> 1:34:01.160 fifteen minutes thing that I mentioned earlier, how that became 1:34:01.160 --> 1:34:04.000 a mirror of what can happen in fifteen minutes with 1:34:04.120 --> 1:34:06.639 the disappearance at the beginning and then with the police 1:34:06.640 --> 1:34:10.559 coming in fifteen minutes. Just I think that it's really 1:34:10.600 --> 1:34:13.040 cool to see him sneak all that stuff in there, 1:34:13.400 --> 1:34:16.080 and I just think it's a pretty it's pretty tight, 1:34:16.240 --> 1:34:19.040 except for like you said, Caitlin, that last like ten 1:34:19.200 --> 1:34:24.760 fifteen minutes where it's like you explained too much, right right, Yeah, 1:34:25.080 --> 1:34:29.080 Just like Jordan's do another rewrite of the end. Um 1:34:29.800 --> 1:34:32.559 they're just going off of because I think we like 1:34:33.120 --> 1:34:35.400 vaguely referenced it at the very beginning of the episode. 1:34:35.680 --> 1:34:37.840 But um, something that has been coming up a lot 1:34:37.960 --> 1:34:40.880 in this year's month of Horror movies is the fact 1:34:40.920 --> 1:34:43.479 that there is an unhoused person that is dead at 1:34:43.479 --> 1:34:45.599 the or really injured at the beginning of the movie 1:34:45.720 --> 1:34:49.719 as like a warning. UM. I think is something that 1:34:49.800 --> 1:34:52.080 we have been seeing pop up in a lot of 1:34:52.160 --> 1:34:54.519 horror movies, or at least two out of the four 1:34:54.560 --> 1:34:58.840 we're covering this month UM feature a story beat where 1:34:59.120 --> 1:35:03.599 an unhoused person and as UM brutalized or killed as 1:35:04.000 --> 1:35:07.519 a vague plot point to keep the protagonist story moving. 1:35:07.560 --> 1:35:09.920 We also saw this in A Girl Walks home alone 1:35:09.920 --> 1:35:15.080 at night and Uh, just right, better, you don't have 1:35:15.200 --> 1:35:19.639 to do that. Yeah, I agree. I think. The last 1:35:19.640 --> 1:35:21.680 thing I wanted to say was that I don't know 1:35:21.680 --> 1:35:26.360 if anyone noticed ADDIE's dad at the very beginning of 1:35:26.400 --> 1:35:29.160 the movie playing whack a mole and how bad he 1:35:29.280 --> 1:35:32.160 was at it. He really sucked. He didn't he wasn't 1:35:32.400 --> 1:35:35.400 moving the mallet around, he was just hitting the same 1:35:35.479 --> 1:35:38.880 empty hole over the mole hole over and over again, 1:35:38.880 --> 1:35:41.200 and nothing was popping out of it. I'm just like sir. 1:35:41.479 --> 1:35:44.559 He also stopped playing in the middle, where I don't 1:35:44.560 --> 1:35:46.320 know why I got so, but I was just like, 1:35:46.600 --> 1:35:49.080 you just gave them two tickets to play, and you're 1:35:49.120 --> 1:35:53.360 stopping in the middle. You waste You're wasting time. And 1:35:53.400 --> 1:35:56.360 oh it was too tickets. Like my inner Chucky cheese stand, 1:35:56.840 --> 1:35:59.920 it was two tickets. Also to play the game, two ticket. 1:36:00.000 --> 1:36:04.519 It was two tickets a lot of Jordan Peele is 1:36:04.600 --> 1:36:09.080 a terrific writer. I love get Out. I wish the 1:36:09.439 --> 1:36:12.120 ending of US was as solid as the ending of 1:36:12.680 --> 1:36:17.960 get Out, but most again, most of the much discussion. Yes, 1:36:18.160 --> 1:36:21.240 for sure, I just yeah, I can't wait to see 1:36:21.960 --> 1:36:25.200 more of his work. I also, I feel like US 1:36:25.400 --> 1:36:28.840 has more rewatch value than get Out. I feel like 1:36:29.120 --> 1:36:32.639 because there's so much that you notice different times. In 1:36:32.680 --> 1:36:35.120 a way, I feel like get Out is almost because 1:36:35.200 --> 1:36:38.920 it's so tight, you're like, oh, I see everything, it's there, Yep, yep, good, okay, 1:36:39.120 --> 1:36:42.000 got it, And with US it's sort of like, oh, 1:36:42.040 --> 1:36:44.640 there's so much that I don't understand, and maybe if 1:36:44.680 --> 1:36:46.760 I watch it again, i'll understand it a little bit 1:36:46.760 --> 1:36:48.880 more like I feel like there's a secret message and 1:36:48.880 --> 1:36:50.519 I don't quite have it yet, but if I watch 1:36:50.520 --> 1:36:54.000 it eighteen times, maybe i'll get it right. Yeah, it's fun, 1:36:54.160 --> 1:36:56.160 it's cool. It's weird because it's like it's the same 1:36:56.240 --> 1:36:59.920 genre as his first movie, but it's like completely different, 1:37:00.160 --> 1:37:04.760 Like it's yeah, you love to see range, Yes, you 1:37:04.840 --> 1:37:08.400 love to see the range. Uh does this movie pass 1:37:08.439 --> 1:37:11.160 the Bechdel test? We already said yes it does. Between 1:37:11.720 --> 1:37:19.080 um Addie and her daughter Zora between well, my question 1:37:19.120 --> 1:37:22.719 about that with Red? They never say Red's name on camera, 1:37:22.920 --> 1:37:25.280 So does she count as a named character if they 1:37:25.320 --> 1:37:29.000 don't say the character's name? That's my question. Well, my 1:37:29.080 --> 1:37:31.400 take on that is always like, even if the character 1:37:31.600 --> 1:37:35.800 isn't given a name, are they narratively significant enough that 1:37:35.880 --> 1:37:38.880 they matter to the story because the name the naming 1:37:39.040 --> 1:37:42.080 caveats always like, oh, are they like a barista who 1:37:42.240 --> 1:37:45.160 who you see for five seconds in the movie? Uh, 1:37:45.200 --> 1:37:47.479 and they don't have a name because they are not 1:37:47.560 --> 1:37:51.000 an important character? I think it's yeah, So I yeah, 1:37:51.000 --> 1:37:54.160 I count any interactions between Addie and Red as passing. 1:37:55.040 --> 1:37:57.840 And as far as our nipple scale goes, the zero 1:37:57.880 --> 1:38:01.240 to five nipples based on its based on an examination 1:38:01.280 --> 1:38:06.240 of intersectional feminism. UM. For this one, I think I 1:38:06.280 --> 1:38:09.559 would go like a three and a half. I do 1:38:10.040 --> 1:38:17.439 appreciate its exploration of class, uh and privilege and kind 1:38:17.479 --> 1:38:21.840 of the the what is the word that I'm trying 1:38:21.880 --> 1:38:25.400 to think of, the fallacy? I think of the American 1:38:25.520 --> 1:38:28.080 dream and and things like that as sort of like 1:38:28.200 --> 1:38:32.520 an allegorical presence in the story. I do really appreciate 1:38:32.600 --> 1:38:39.800 the way that Adelaide's character is the protagonist and the 1:38:39.840 --> 1:38:45.920 most active character. Uh. We see her do things uh 1:38:45.960 --> 1:38:52.240 that are my brain is also putting. UM. I also 1:38:52.320 --> 1:38:55.160 love how active Red is. I mean, both of Lapida's 1:38:55.240 --> 1:38:59.000 characters are like the people in charge of their respective situations, 1:38:59.200 --> 1:39:02.120 which makes sense because they're tethered together, you know, they 1:39:02.160 --> 1:39:05.880 share the same soul. But they are the ones who 1:39:06.040 --> 1:39:09.559 are making the most active choices. They're the ones who 1:39:09.560 --> 1:39:12.719 are calling the shots in whatever it is they're trying 1:39:12.760 --> 1:39:17.760 to do. Zora also we see doing a lot of fighting. 1:39:18.040 --> 1:39:21.920 She attacks three different characters there. There's at one point 1:39:21.960 --> 1:39:23.920 they're talk about like their kill counts, and they're almost 1:39:23.920 --> 1:39:26.040 like kind of being like, well, I get to drive 1:39:26.040 --> 1:39:30.880 because I've killed the most people and she kills two, uh, 1:39:30.920 --> 1:39:33.519 and then she thought she killed three, but then yeah, 1:39:33.720 --> 1:39:35.760 she thought she had three, but she actually had too. 1:39:35.920 --> 1:39:38.479 That seems really funny. Yeah. I like that you see 1:39:38.560 --> 1:39:42.519 female characters in a horror movie, like knowing the danger 1:39:42.520 --> 1:39:48.360 they're in, immediately responding appropriately to that, making active choices, 1:39:49.080 --> 1:39:52.160 doing fighting that feels appropriate to what they would be 1:39:52.240 --> 1:39:56.280 capable of doing. Um. Nothing felt like how did how 1:39:56.320 --> 1:40:00.360 does she suddenly like a martial arts master with this 1:40:01.040 --> 1:40:03.680 uh fire poker? Like, we don't say anything like the 1:40:03.760 --> 1:40:08.280 Mary sus stuff. It's all it's all pretty grounded. So yeah, 1:40:08.439 --> 1:40:13.400 I I just wish the ending was a little bit different. Um. 1:40:13.479 --> 1:40:15.160 But other than that, I do really enjoy this movie. 1:40:15.600 --> 1:40:19.840 I'd give it three and a half nipples. I will 1:40:19.880 --> 1:40:25.519 give two of them to Lapita on the condition that 1:40:25.640 --> 1:40:30.280 she learns from her mistake of demonizing a characteristic of 1:40:30.280 --> 1:40:35.719 a disability. Uh. And I'll give one to the actor 1:40:35.760 --> 1:40:41.280 who played Zora, whose name is Hattie write Joseph, I think, 1:40:41.880 --> 1:40:45.960 yes exactly. And I'll give my remaining half nipple to 1:40:46.560 --> 1:40:51.639 the actor who played young Red slash Addie and her 1:40:52.120 --> 1:40:55.960 name I also wrote it down is Madison Curry. So 1:40:56.560 --> 1:41:02.120 those are my distributions. I think I'm gonna go for 1:41:02.520 --> 1:41:07.559 on this movie. Um, I yeah, I mean there's there's 1:41:07.600 --> 1:41:10.120 definitely some small things and a lot of it were 1:41:10.400 --> 1:41:12.519 had a little more to do with the production than 1:41:12.520 --> 1:41:17.840 the movie itself. But I mean Lupida marginalizing disabled people 1:41:17.840 --> 1:41:22.400 in that way, that's, uh, you gotta docket. Um and there. 1:41:22.479 --> 1:41:24.599 I mean we discussed a few things, but I think 1:41:24.640 --> 1:41:27.439 by and large, I mean, this movie does so many 1:41:27.520 --> 1:41:31.760 things that your average horror movie isn't doing in terms 1:41:31.840 --> 1:41:36.200 of like, you could not have a more complicated dual 1:41:36.560 --> 1:41:41.200 shared soul character than Red and Adelaide. There's so much 1:41:41.280 --> 1:41:45.760 being examined just within these two characters and how they 1:41:45.800 --> 1:41:51.040 interact with each other. Like it's, uh, it's slightly confusing 1:41:51.120 --> 1:41:54.599 at the end, but it's still it's I mean, show me, 1:41:54.800 --> 1:41:59.720 show me more layers. I don't think it's possible. I 1:41:58.800 --> 1:42:02.920 I I don't know. I like how I guess kind 1:42:02.920 --> 1:42:06.040 of like the reflection of a lot of family dynamics, 1:42:06.120 --> 1:42:09.360 of like Adelaide is very much in charge of her family, 1:42:09.479 --> 1:42:12.720 but has I mean, even the reflections on masculinity that 1:42:12.800 --> 1:42:16.639 this movie has I thought were pretty effective. Of Um, 1:42:16.840 --> 1:42:19.439 you know, you understand why Gabe is kind of in 1:42:19.520 --> 1:42:22.920 this standoff with Tim Hidecker whose name I never remember, 1:42:23.600 --> 1:42:29.680 uh Josh, but it is an impediment to the family ultimately. 1:42:30.160 --> 1:42:34.599 And I like the showing of masculinity in um Jason, 1:42:34.680 --> 1:42:39.519 whereby being more sensitive and more receptive to things, he 1:42:39.560 --> 1:42:44.360 sees things that other characters just don't. Uh. Zora is 1:42:44.400 --> 1:42:47.440 super active, I choose like one of the funniest characters, 1:42:48.160 --> 1:42:50.759 very able to call her dad out on his book 1:42:50.920 --> 1:42:54.439 bullshit and like, I don't know, I just like that 1:42:54.760 --> 1:42:58.480 and and I and I enjoyed most of the commentary 1:42:58.560 --> 1:43:02.759 being made with Pittie Tyler as well. I didn't really 1:43:03.439 --> 1:43:07.280 I was touch and go on the face the girl 1:43:07.400 --> 1:43:10.040 Joker moment wasn't my favorite thing in the world, but 1:43:10.680 --> 1:43:15.040 I I think, I mean, for especially for a movie 1:43:15.080 --> 1:43:18.840 that's written and directed by a man, that it's largely 1:43:19.080 --> 1:43:22.599 I mean, the portrayal of femininity and masculinity I thought 1:43:22.680 --> 1:43:26.080 was really effective and cool and used to examine a 1:43:26.160 --> 1:43:29.960 larger thing of pretty effectively. So I'm gonna go four. 1:43:30.600 --> 1:43:35.960 I'll give one to Adelaide, one to Red, one to Zorah, 1:43:36.880 --> 1:43:41.559 and then half of one to Kitty, and then the 1:43:41.640 --> 1:43:44.160 last half the little adelaide sorry for cutting a nipple 1:43:44.160 --> 1:43:48.719 and half, so it must be done. I am going 1:43:48.800 --> 1:43:52.400 to like two to others standing together, give four nipples, 1:43:53.120 --> 1:43:58.000 um two and two. They two twos everywhere nipple nipple 1:43:58.040 --> 1:44:01.719 nipple npples. Also eleven eleven is one one, which adds 1:44:01.800 --> 1:44:05.320 up to four. Yep, the number of nipples I'm giving. 1:44:06.720 --> 1:44:11.320 I like the commentary and how there's an acknowledgement of 1:44:11.360 --> 1:44:13.679 the fact that we are all living on stolen land 1:44:14.280 --> 1:44:16.519 and how that is going to bite us in the 1:44:16.560 --> 1:44:20.920 butt if we do not acknowledge it. And UH should 1:44:20.920 --> 1:44:23.960 be acknowledged because of the way that people are treating 1:44:24.000 --> 1:44:28.920 each other. And I would like to see less of 1:44:28.960 --> 1:44:34.519 the issues with the unhoused people and the the issue 1:44:34.640 --> 1:44:40.280 with the demonization of this disability. So that's automatically a 1:44:40.400 --> 1:44:44.280 nipple off in terms of not hitting the five nipples. 1:44:44.320 --> 1:44:48.200 But I will give a nipple to the shared nipple 1:44:48.320 --> 1:44:53.040 between the lupidas UH. Two nipples for Shahari, right, Joseph, 1:44:53.240 --> 1:44:56.000 because I honestly, every time I watch it, I have 1:44:56.040 --> 1:44:58.400 to remind myself that she is one person playing two 1:44:58.479 --> 1:45:01.280 characters and not two different actors. I feel like she 1:45:01.400 --> 1:45:05.320 and her were the most different for me. So she 1:45:05.439 --> 1:45:07.960 gets two nipples and then I'm going to give the 1:45:08.040 --> 1:45:12.479 last nipple to uh to Jason for the line kiss 1:45:12.520 --> 1:45:18.360 my anus, which is beautiful line or like, where did 1:45:18.400 --> 1:45:22.519 you even learn that word? He doesn't want to get 1:45:22.520 --> 1:45:25.760 in trouble for swearing, so he goes to the anatomically 1:45:25.800 --> 1:45:33.720 correct terms and I love it. So those are my 1:45:33.760 --> 1:45:39.160 four nipples. Um. Great exploration of privileged disparities, uh, and 1:45:39.920 --> 1:45:44.520 not great exploration of privilege disparities between people with disabilities 1:45:44.720 --> 1:45:48.559 and able bodied people. But you know, overall, good stuff, 1:45:48.600 --> 1:45:53.840 good story, good characters, fun time. Thank you for being here, Gramos, 1:45:54.479 --> 1:45:58.639 thank you for having me. Yes, I'm so glad. Tell 1:45:58.760 --> 1:46:04.280 us Swear Bowl can check out your stuff online. You 1:46:04.320 --> 1:46:07.360 can check me out at Karama Drama k O r 1:46:07.479 --> 1:46:10.160 A m A d r A m A it rhymes 1:46:10.240 --> 1:46:13.760 for your pleasure. And I'm on Twitter and Instagram that 1:46:13.840 --> 1:46:16.719 I do not frequently post on Instagram because it makes 1:46:16.760 --> 1:46:20.519 me sad, but Twitter is great. Follow me on Twitter. 1:46:20.600 --> 1:46:23.799 I make jokes about Batman stick. It's fun. Oh yes, good, 1:46:24.080 --> 1:46:30.519 hell yeah yeah uh. You can follow us as well 1:46:30.600 --> 1:46:35.440 on Twitter and Instagram. At becktel Cast you can subscribe 1:46:35.439 --> 1:46:38.559 to our Patreon aka Matreon. It's five dollars a month. 1:46:38.720 --> 1:46:45.880 It is UH to to wow to bonus episodes every month, 1:46:46.640 --> 1:46:50.640 including access to the entire back catalog. You can do. 1:46:50.680 --> 1:46:53.000 You can get our merge at public dot com slash 1:46:53.120 --> 1:46:57.400 the back del cast UH and we also have a 1:46:57.520 --> 1:47:00.599 face masks there. So if you're looking for a fun 1:47:00.720 --> 1:47:05.400 and fashionable way to UH live in the scariest timeline, 1:47:05.840 --> 1:47:11.040 that's a way to do it. Yes, indeed, and now 1:47:11.320 --> 1:47:17.040 we go, we scuttle back underground and stay tethered. I 1:47:17.080 --> 1:47:22.000 don't know my brain, it's tired. Fine,