Speaker 1: Today's guest needs no introduction, but I'm going to give
Speaker 1: him one anyway, because his story is just that good.
Speaker 1: Gary Vanachuk, entrepreneur, investor, producer, host, best selling author, and
Speaker 1: one of the most electrifying voices in business today, is
Speaker 1: joining us. From building Wine Library into a powerhouse, to
Speaker 1: leading Vaynerrex Veno Media, be Friends, Veno Sports, Venusree and
Speaker 1: shaping the future of marketing and so much more. Gary
Speaker 1: has redefined what it means to stay ahead of the game.
Speaker 1: His insights on brand culture and the power of attention
Speaker 1: are legendary, and his energy absolutely unstoppable. So get ready
Speaker 1: for an unfiltered, no bullshited conversation about his personal story,
Speaker 1: the future of business, content, social, and what it really
Speaker 1: takes to win in today's world. Gary, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1: I'm honored to have you with us.
Speaker 2: That was very nice. Thank you for having me. I'm
Speaker 2: glad to be here. Let's do that.
Speaker 1: Yes, awesome, great. So I always started with a couple
Speaker 1: of more personal questions, so I would love to ask you.
Speaker 1: You are as I said, you know, a high energy entrepreneur,
Speaker 1: marketing guru, futurists. However, we call you and you let
Speaker 1: us know maybe in a minute, but that barely scratches
Speaker 1: the surface of so many talents. With all the projects
Speaker 1: and companies you've already launched, what's one idea or one
Speaker 1: passion you haven't had time to pursue yet but would
Speaker 1: love to bring to life sooner rather than later. Is
Speaker 1: there anything that's a great question to start this up?
Speaker 2: And it's really tough one because really, v friends, was
Speaker 2: that I knew my whole life that I either want
Speaker 2: to buy or start an intellectual property. You know, I'm
Speaker 2: forty nine years old. I grew up in the eighties.
Speaker 2: It was everything Star Wars, you know et you know, Transformers,
Speaker 2: Gi Joe and I have three and a half, your
Speaker 2: younger sister I was very close to. So it was
Speaker 2: Cabbage Patch Kids and my little Pony and Strawberry Shortcake,
Speaker 2: and you know, it was just back to the future.
Speaker 2: There was so much good going on in the eighties
Speaker 2: of intellectual property being created. So I would say that
Speaker 2: one always loomed I got to it. I would say,
Speaker 2: the last thing I really want to get to for
Speaker 2: sure is I do get excited about the concept of
Speaker 2: doing private equity to buy iconic nostalgic brands and refurbish
Speaker 2: them with contemporary marketing. And that's why I started Vainermedia
Speaker 2: in a lot of ways. So that's still looming for me.
Speaker 2: And then I want to have an era where I
Speaker 2: go to a cave and not shave for a year
Speaker 2: and just have people find me and ask me questions,
Speaker 2: like a Yoda like character. So I definitely want to
Speaker 2: scratch that in my career, like a sabbatical where I
Speaker 2: just give back on a one to one level in
Speaker 2: an unscalpable fashion. Obviously I just used a silly kind
Speaker 2: of example, but something like that is something else I
Speaker 2: want to do professionally, and there's probably some other things
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 1: Awesome, Awesome, I mean what an ants as the first
Speaker 1: for the crush questions? And obviously you know, if we
Speaker 1: weren't possible long enough, you know, we won't become iconic
Speaker 1: enough for you maybe to step into our business as well,
Speaker 1: maybe in fifty years or something like this. All right,
Speaker 1: good to know it, was there ever a moment in
Speaker 1: your childhood, you know, in your early days that perfectly
Speaker 1: foreshadowt the entrepreneur you would become. Was there a moment
Speaker 1: where you where you learn about this and you knew
Speaker 1: what to do in your life.
Speaker 2: The first part, for sure. I actually ironically just brought
Speaker 2: it up earlier today. I am fascinated to this day
Speaker 2: of how interesting my Lemonade Stan career was. You know,
Speaker 2: having a lemonade Stan is such a tail tale kind
Speaker 2: of indication to entrepreneurship, especially in the eighties and nineties. Ye,
Speaker 2: but when I did my lemonade Stan, I you love
Speaker 2: this Christian. I spent more time making signs and figuring
Speaker 2: out what tree and what poll to put it on,
Speaker 2: and so the even at my early stage, it was
Speaker 2: clear that I was going to be a marketer, because
Speaker 2: I think I put more time into marketing my lemonade
Speaker 2: stand than definitely making the lemonade. I think I should
Speaker 2: have done a better job making it a little more delicious.
Speaker 2: There's too much sugar in there, So that's that I think. Yeah,
Speaker 2: very early on the first time I did a baseball
Speaker 2: card show, selling my own baseball cards in a mall
Speaker 2: in New Jersey, I knew that I would never not
Speaker 2: be a businessman, you know. So somewhere around five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve,
Speaker 2: those formative childhood years when it would snow and we
Speaker 2: would have a day off from school. Most of the
Speaker 2: kids went and made snowmen and had snowball fights. And
Speaker 2: I did a lot of that too, but I would
Speaker 2: say at least thirty to fifty percent of the snow days,
Speaker 2: I would go into my parents' garage, grab a shovel,
Speaker 2: and go ring doorbells and work hard for five bucks.
Speaker 2: And so my childhood is an incredibly clear preview to
Speaker 2: who I became. And I think one of the reasons
Speaker 2: business works for me is I do it for the game,
Speaker 2: not for the money that comes along with the game.
Speaker 2: And I see a lot of people who do that,
Speaker 2: and I think they're happier, less anxious, not always more
Speaker 2: financially successful. I see a lot of people who just
Speaker 2: do it for the money make more money than people
Speaker 2: that do it for the love of the game, but
Speaker 2: all of them are less happy, more anxious, and I'm
Speaker 2: very grateful.
Speaker 1: I agree completely with you that you know, having just
Speaker 1: one motivation doesn't matter what it is, you know will
Speaker 1: limit you in your success and your business success, whether
Speaker 1: it's just going for money or or just having fun.
Speaker 1: I think it has to be a kind of combination
Speaker 1: of a lot of things. However, we come back to
Speaker 1: this in a second. Okay, So one thing I would
Speaker 1: love to hear from you is, you know, if you
Speaker 1: had to choose, what would you say is your most
Speaker 1: defining character trait? Is it a perseverance, is it creativity,
Speaker 1: is it integrity? Or is it something completely different?
Speaker 2: Self awareness?
Speaker 1: Self awareness?
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you ask me to answer you on that,
Speaker 2: I think being competitive is very up there. Yeah, being
Speaker 2: tenacious is very up there. I think optimistic is huge
Speaker 2: for me. And I know people are confused by this,
Speaker 2: but I think being kind has been extraordinarily important to
Speaker 2: my success. As you know, because we run in the
Speaker 2: same industry. There may be some people that don't like me,
Speaker 2: but nobody who actually knows me doesn't think that I'm
Speaker 2: not a nice guy. And I'm proud of that, and
Speaker 2: that's an indication of being well parented and a strength
Speaker 2: of kindness. But all of those things are secondary. I
Speaker 2: think self awareness, which I think leads to the combination
Speaker 2: of confidence and humility. Yeah, you know, I just know
Speaker 2: who I am, and I know what I'm good at,
Speaker 2: and I know what I'm not good at, and the
Speaker 2: things that I'm not good at, I don't think I
Speaker 2: stink that doesn't lead to insecurity. That just leads to reality.
Speaker 2: Everybody has strengths and weaknesses. I feel like I'm also
Speaker 2: empathetically self aware, meaning when I was when I was
Speaker 2: a bad student, I understand I was coming into business world.
Speaker 2: I knew that people thought I was dumb and not
Speaker 2: good because in the eighties and nineties, where you went
Speaker 2: to college was the indication of your worth. And I
Speaker 2: wasn't upset that people thought I wasn't going to be good.
Speaker 2: I understood them. Today, when I walk into a room
Speaker 2: in our industry and I can see someone's like not jiving,
Speaker 2: I'm empathetic. I'm like, oh, that must be a competitor
Speaker 2: who doesn't know me or took something I said out
Speaker 2: of context. So I think self awareness has been the one.
Speaker 1: Which is a huge achievement. I think if you know
Speaker 1: who you are, I think that's a big advantage how
Speaker 1: to act and that people can really rely on you
Speaker 1: whatever personality you are. I think that's a huge achievement.
Speaker 1: I think obviously you've met and you've mentored so many people,
Speaker 1: young people, senior leaders across the industries. Who's the one
Speaker 1: person who has truly surprised you with their journey, and
Speaker 1: why is there one who stands out of this? Maybe
Speaker 1: you had a complete different expectation, you know, meeting this person.
Speaker 2: Well, i'll give you an interest one. I'll go with
Speaker 2: age a Bayer truck. I'll go with my brother in
Speaker 2: this one, all right. My brother grew up very similar
Speaker 2: to me. We're eleven years apart. We grew up differently
Speaker 2: because we were in different economic situations in our childhood.
Speaker 2: But he's incredibly capable. He has a lot of strengths
Speaker 2: that are stronger than mine. He's wildly competitive. He's extremely ambitious.
Speaker 2: You know, you said you are. I don't know if
Speaker 2: he's more ambitious, but you know where I'm about to
Speaker 2: go with this story is interesting, you said, who surprised you?
Speaker 2: Aj has Crohn's disease, and early in his career at
Speaker 2: Vayner he had a pretty bad spell and had to
Speaker 2: have a decent chunk of his small intestine taken out
Speaker 2: and it completely changed the course of his life. My
Speaker 2: brother is way more rounded than I anticipated. I saw
Speaker 2: him as, you know, a little bit more like me.
Speaker 2: And because he is a lot like me, right, and
Speaker 2: I'm saying this as a positive, I'm really proud of
Speaker 2: him as a father of three young little ones, as
Speaker 2: a human who has found lots of time for his
Speaker 2: passion and golf in his tempered ambitions of professional achievement.
Speaker 2: I think he's incredibly well rounded and incredibly comfortable in
Speaker 2: his skin, and also has a brother that went on
Speaker 2: to be really like me, you know, and just the
Speaker 2: way he cheers for me and doesn't see it as
Speaker 2: a negative, and the way he preshoots me. I'm just grateful,
Speaker 2: as you could probably tell by my tone. But if
Speaker 2: I'm truly going with surprise because I had so many
Speaker 2: expectations because I just watched him and enjoyed him, and
Speaker 2: you know, when he was thirteen, he would like out
Speaker 2: negotiate me for business deals we did together, like you know,
Speaker 2: because he was tough. He was like, no, we got
Speaker 2: to be fifty fifty. I'm like, I'm put up all
Speaker 2: the money and doing all the work. You're just shipping
Speaker 2: out the packages for eBay. He's like, well, they wouldn't
Speaker 2: ship without me. I'm like, that's true. I'm business building,
Speaker 2: that's business. So like you know, I just he would
Speaker 2: be the one that most surprised me. Yeah, I'll give
Speaker 2: you another one, you know. I would tell you. The
Speaker 2: one that least surprised me was Mark Zuckerberg.
Speaker 1: All right, why is that?
Speaker 2: When I met him very early on. Yeah, I know
Speaker 2: this is probably podcasts. I don't know if this is visual,
Speaker 2: but you're looking at Facebook stock here. I bought Facebook
Speaker 2: very early on off with Mark's parents. I met him
Speaker 2: very early on, right, and he was the only person
Speaker 2: I'd ever met up into that point where there was
Speaker 2: no doubt in my mind after my first dinner that
Speaker 2: he was going to build one of the biggest companies
Speaker 2: in the world. All right, you know that would be
Speaker 2: like that's an it Like it was funny when you
Speaker 2: asked the question. Like the things that ran through my mind,
Speaker 2: that one stands out because, like I truly thought he
Speaker 2: was going to build one of the five or ten
Speaker 2: biggest companies in the world, which is a ludicrous thing
Speaker 2: to think after one dinner at like, you know, and
Speaker 2: the company was big ish, but like not to I
Speaker 2: knew it. I knew it because he knew consumer, which
Speaker 2: I look for, right, And then there's a there's a
Speaker 2: lot of you know, the other thing that I'm thinking
Speaker 2: about that could have happened if I go a different route.
Speaker 2: I've made a lot of investments in guys and gals
Speaker 2: that I knew could either build something big or it
Speaker 2: was gonna fail horribly, and normally it fails horribly. I've
Speaker 2: changed my investment thesis, like this is you know, it's
Speaker 2: funny by the way I think I represented this for
Speaker 2: a lot of people. There's a lot of people that
Speaker 2: come up to me through the years that say, man,
Speaker 2: you know, it's just where they are with me at
Speaker 2: this point. They're like, man, I got to give you
Speaker 2: some respect or flowers. They're like, the first time you
Speaker 2: came across my path, I'm like, this fucking guy's a
Speaker 2: piece of shit. Like he's not gonna he's not gonna last.
Speaker 2: This is a fly by night and I and I
Speaker 2: understand why. I think when you're very big personality, when
Speaker 2: you're you're high energy, when there's a lot going on.
Speaker 2: But because I knew I had it, I invested in
Speaker 2: a lot of kids that had what I had. The
Speaker 2: problem is, ninety percent of the time does end up
Speaker 2: being what you think it is, which is all hot air.
Speaker 2: And so it's been it's been an interesting journey of
Speaker 2: expectations versus surprising outcomes. But aj because it's a respectful surprise.
Speaker 2: I'm so happy for the balance he has for himself.
Speaker 1: And it's a great story you can share with our
Speaker 1: listeners because you know, it's obviously somebody you're very close
Speaker 1: to all your life, and you you work with him,
Speaker 1: you spend a lot of time with him, So which
Speaker 1: is great. You have said person who surprised you most,
Speaker 1: as you said, you know, still in your life, and
Speaker 1: you know, being being a core part of your life,
Speaker 1: which is which is amazing, Which is amazing. I just
Speaker 1: think about, you know, going back to your to your
Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg example, because obviously you invested in so many companies.
Speaker 1: You've mentioned Facebook, but you invested into Twitter early days,
Speaker 1: coin Base, Slack, Liquid Death, Uber, and and so on.
Speaker 1: Was it just because you knew this person? You know?
Speaker 2: What was this? I can break them all down for you.
Speaker 2: Facebook and Twitter and Tumblr were the first three companies
Speaker 2: I invested in. It was a It was a moment
Speaker 2: of brilliance being in the right place at the right time,
Speaker 2: and I probably will I'm not sure if I'll ever
Speaker 2: be able to replicate it. I was so uncomfortably right
Speaker 2: that social media was gonna win, and I did such
Speaker 2: a good job vetting the entrepreneurs. Back then, I didn't
Speaker 2: think I was an investor. That's a lesson. I want
Speaker 2: to really make everyone listen carefully. When I didn't think
Speaker 2: I was an investor, I invested best. Okay, all I
Speaker 2: did in two thousand and six and seven when I
Speaker 2: invested in those companies was I had a little bit
Speaker 2: of savings after working for twelve years for my father.
Speaker 2: I didn't make a lot of money those years, but
Speaker 2: luckily I lived so humbly that I had a little
Speaker 2: bit of savings and I spent it all. All the
Speaker 2: savings that I amassed in my life, I invested not equally,
Speaker 2: seventy percent of Facebook, twenty percent to Twitter, and ten
Speaker 2: percent to Tumblr, and they all returned staggering. If I
Speaker 2: had money back then, I'd probably be running the jets
Speaker 2: for the last ten years. It would have been open.
Speaker 2: The multiples were tens of thousands of X, like crazy numbers.
Speaker 2: But I didn't put enough capital to like completely go
Speaker 2: to stratosphere. But I'm not complaining Comma. So those my
Speaker 2: friend Christian was I was. I knew social was going
Speaker 2: to happen, and I met everybody, and I just thought
Speaker 2: those three and the one for me at Twitter wasn't
Speaker 2: Jack Dorsey was actually Avan Williams. Okay, he was the
Speaker 2: founder that I most was like, that's the guy, and
Speaker 2: he was the guy at the time more than Jack.
Speaker 2: Actually were equal to Jack, but Evan was a little
Speaker 2: more front facing. That was that Liquid Death. Mike worked
Speaker 2: at vayne or Media. The day before he started at
Speaker 2: Liquid Death sent me an email and I wanted to
Speaker 2: support him because I liked the narrative of me supporting
Speaker 2: my employees on their own entrepreneurial venture. And I liked
Speaker 2: him and thought he was creative. But I would be
Speaker 2: lying out of my ass if I could have comprehended
Speaker 2: the level of business that he's been able to build.
Speaker 2: And I'm so happy for him. Slack's a wild story.
Speaker 2: Stuart Butterfield, the founder of Slack, was the founder. The
Speaker 2: co founder of Slack, was the co founder of Flicker.
Speaker 2: Flicker was one of the most important websites in Web
Speaker 2: two point zero and in a lot of ways was
Speaker 2: a precursor to Instagram. Right, it was a photo app,
Speaker 2: but it was desktop, not mobile, wasn't out yet. It
Speaker 2: sold to Yahoo for like forty to sixty million dollars
Speaker 2: which was an enormous number at the time, and I
Speaker 2: read a lot about Stuart and I when I went
Speaker 2: to California on a trip, I went out of my
Speaker 2: way to like find him, meet him. I met him.
Speaker 2: We hit it off. We didn't we hit it off
Speaker 2: in the moment for an hour, for thirty minutes, that
Speaker 2: was really it. We would talk on Twitter a little bit,
Speaker 2: an email here. But then when Slack pivoted from I
Speaker 2: don't know if people know this Slack was a game. No,
Speaker 2: I didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that.
Speaker 3: Do you know that.
Speaker 2: Slack was a product that was built for a remote
Speaker 2: workforce building a desktop game. They built it for them
Speaker 2: sells to talk to each other, and that became the
Speaker 2: actual company what if?
Speaker 1: Sorry?
Speaker 2: Yeah, they ate their like it was crazy. Their own
Speaker 2: feature internally became the app. It's I love when sawdust
Speaker 2: becomes the actual thing you sell. It's an amazing story.
Speaker 2: So I got in early there because of that. Uber's
Speaker 2: a wild story. I mean, Uber's my biggest miss. I
Speaker 2: didn't invest any Angel round. Travis was my closest friend
Speaker 2: in that era of social investing. We were investing together
Speaker 2: a lot, and I said no twice because I just
Speaker 2: bought an apartment in Manhattan, and I was very, very
Speaker 2: e liquid. Yeah, And I love that I lost out
Speaker 2: on hundreds of millions of dollars by saying no twice
Speaker 2: because it reaffirms my biggest thesis, which is scared money
Speaker 2: doesn't make money. And it was one of the few
Speaker 2: times I was on defense in my entire life, and
Speaker 2: it was one of my biggest financial misses. It's my
Speaker 2: biggest financial miss.
Speaker 1: Have you ever missed one opportunity completely where you missed
Speaker 1: to invest any single dollar in where you say, oh shit,
Speaker 1: you know this is something I should do.
Speaker 2: The biggest misses in my career Uber I invested later.
Speaker 2: I still did very well, but it could have been
Speaker 2: I mean I literally could have made three four hundred
Speaker 2: million dollars on fifty thousand dollars investment. AIRBMB emailed me.
Speaker 2: It was Joe, one of the co founders. His email
Speaker 2: was Joe at air Ben and Breakfast. I don't know
Speaker 2: if people know this Airbnb the B ANDB stands for
Speaker 2: Ben and Breakfast. Airbnb emailed me. I never saw the email,
Speaker 2: so I love that I have the email, but I
Speaker 2: don't regret it because I don't take that loss personally
Speaker 2: because it's not really lost. I didn't see it. Pinterest
Speaker 2: was introduced to me before Ben even went to California
Speaker 2: when it was being done in Pennsylvania. Also, I didn't
Speaker 2: have the meeting. I later invested fairly early on again
Speaker 2: kind of a half win half loss. Yeah, what is
Speaker 2: the biggest company that I passed on where I was like, no,
Speaker 2: this doesn't have it. You know what's funny, I'm so
Speaker 2: con sumer centric. Yeah, that I'm pretty good at the
Speaker 2: game because trying to I really want to give you one.
Speaker 2: I mean, I have the uber and you know there's
Speaker 2: some losses there. What's a I don't know if I
Speaker 2: think you mean.
Speaker 1: You know you mentioned the biggest successes obviously, but also
Speaker 1: you know those ones where you.
Speaker 2: I got one, I got I got one for you brother.
Speaker 2: It's not that it went on to explode. It's the
Speaker 2: one that I thought was going to be massive that
Speaker 2: was a dud. During that era, I invested in something
Speaker 2: called Yo Bongo.
Speaker 1: I've never heard about that.
Speaker 2: Yo Bongo. I invested in because I had been chasing
Speaker 2: what is now known as Tinder for two years. Grinder
Speaker 2: had been an app that was doing very well in
Speaker 2: the gay community, and I fully believed that there was
Speaker 2: going to be one for heterosexuals, and I for months
Speaker 2: and years stayed my ear to the ground waiting for
Speaker 2: the dating app. And there was this app that came
Speaker 2: out called Yo Bongo, which was because the iPhone had
Speaker 2: just come out, which was it was positioned as you
Speaker 2: could meet people. You would open the app and it
Speaker 2: would see other people near you that would have the app,
Speaker 2: and you could make friends. I was like, yeah, friends.
Speaker 2: I already knew where this shit was going to go,
Speaker 2: and I wanted to invest in it. So I invested
Speaker 2: in it. Right behind that, an app called Highlight came
Speaker 2: out did the same thing and got even more traction.
Speaker 2: And then a couple months later or a year later,
Speaker 2: I saw Tinder and I was like, this is it.
Speaker 2: I lost my mind. I went to go try to
Speaker 2: invest and found out that it was incubated inside of
Speaker 2: IAC in the match group. So I never got a
Speaker 2: chance to invest in it. But I thought, I told
Speaker 2: everybody that Yo Bango was going to be enormously big.
Speaker 2: I wrote a big check by my standards at the time,
Speaker 2: and it just didn't happen.
Speaker 1: Oh, but I mean, this is would be unusual if
Speaker 1: there's not a single case.
Speaker 2: Oh, actually, I'm sorry, Christian. I have hundreds of things
Speaker 2: that have gone to zero, hundreds of things that have
Speaker 2: gone to zero. But all of those, many of those,
Speaker 2: I knew that there was a chance it could go
Speaker 2: to zero. I was very confident about your bombo.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: We talked about the investments, which is great. Let's talk
Speaker 1: about your own kind of ventures. You know, all the
Speaker 1: companies you created. How do you before we dig into
Speaker 1: this a bit more, how do you measure success for
Speaker 1: your own companies? We touched it, you know, a couple
Speaker 1: of minutes ago. Whether it's you know about money, whether
Speaker 1: it's about recognition, you know, whether it's about the size
Speaker 1: of a company. What is your measurement of a success?
Speaker 1: The first thing king to mind. I was going to
Speaker 1: jump in, but I want to give you a little room.
Speaker 1: Is it not going out of business? You know, My
Speaker 1: first measure is it's still alive. I don't think people
Speaker 1: realize how many businesses go out of business.
Speaker 2: So that's number one. I measure it on financial health
Speaker 2: for sure. Business is like sports. There is a score
Speaker 2: so Vayner Sports, Vayner Media, Vayner Watt, which is my
Speaker 2: new TV production company. They will be scored first by
Speaker 2: do they go out of business or not? That's the
Speaker 2: binary part, and then how big do they get? No question,
Speaker 2: of course, there's all the emotional stuff Vayner Media. How
Speaker 2: many people come out of the company to go on
Speaker 2: to have big marketing careers. Nicole at t B being
Speaker 2: the CMO and doing well. I have a lot of
Speaker 2: pride in that. That excites me. So how many winners
Speaker 2: do we create? Mike at Liquid Depth, Even though I
Speaker 2: don't think Nicole, I feel more of my thumbprint. I
Speaker 2: think Mike had a lot of what he had. Maybe
Speaker 2: there's a couple of things he picked up at vayner
Speaker 2: Those things excite me. When alumni go on to crush,
Speaker 2: then there's exits. I don't know if you know this, Christian,
Speaker 2: I co founded Rezi, the restaurant app.
Speaker 1: No, I don't know that.
Speaker 2: I invented Rezie with Ben levinthal over dinner right before
Speaker 2: Christmas that year, and Rezi incubated and lived out of
Speaker 2: Vaynermedia for the first three years of the company. All right,
Speaker 2: how did I measure that? It was a multi hundred
Speaker 2: million dollar cash exit? Very easy to measure empathy wines,
Speaker 2: which I sold to Consolation Brands. Very easy to measure
Speaker 2: and a triple win for me. I did well financially.
Speaker 2: It was only two years old when it sold, so
Speaker 2: it was fast. It was a big exit to a
Speaker 2: big company, and my two co founders both started as
Speaker 2: interns at Vaynermedia. Like that stretched every inch. So you know,
Speaker 2: I think those tend to be.
Speaker 1: The places awesome awesome. What kind of business you launched
Speaker 1: do you think where people should talk about more? You know,
Speaker 1: do you feel that one or maybe some of your
Speaker 1: businesses that never got the kind of the recognition out there?
Speaker 1: Anything you know you feel okay that should be bigger
Speaker 1: or better recognized out in the market. Is there anything?
Speaker 2: I don't really build my businesses for the market. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I'm very aware of this question, so I'll break
Speaker 2: it down. Rezi is probably the business that I co
Speaker 2: founded that is most known by the way outside of me,
Speaker 2: Gary Vee, Right, So I don't think, you know, it's funny.
Speaker 2: I don't think I story told that co foundership enough
Speaker 2: or it's not aware. So that's interesting. I got a
Speaker 2: big one for you, especially in this time in marketing.
Speaker 2: I started probably based on my Google searches. The first
Speaker 2: influencer agency. It was called grape Story. It was an
Speaker 2: agency to represent Vine stars and I did that with
Speaker 2: Jerome jar one of the original Vine celebrities. We signed,
Speaker 2: amongst others Logan Paul, who we discovered through a campaign
Speaker 2: to find the next fine celebrity, Rudy Mancuso like it
Speaker 2: was King Batch we did deals with back then, like
Speaker 2: we really nailed it. So Grape Story in Rezi sit
Speaker 2: in a very interesting place because I don't think people
Speaker 2: know that about me, you know, the improbable nature of
Speaker 2: how big of a business I built for my father
Speaker 2: with no money in that era. I think I have
Speaker 2: the most pride in but it's probably just thought as
Speaker 2: like smaller. But you know, listen, I think V Friends
Speaker 2: is a lot of fun for me right now, Christian,
Speaker 2: because I think a lot of people think of it
Speaker 2: as like something that I don't even do anymore because
Speaker 2: afts are not as hot or you know. But that
Speaker 2: one I'm quietly building, and I think that one will
Speaker 2: surprise people in seven to fifteen years. Look back to
Speaker 2: this podcast. In the industry, I will tell you a
Speaker 2: lot of people are flabbergasted of how big Vayner Media is.
Speaker 2: I don't think most people know how big vainer X is.
Speaker 2: I don't think most people in advertising today know that
Speaker 2: we're a two thousand person global holding company doing you know,
Speaker 2: hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue.
Speaker 2: We're much much, much bigger than our industry realizes because
Speaker 2: I don't play to the industry. But honestly, all of
Speaker 2: that is vanity stuff.
Speaker 1: Me.
Speaker 2: I'm not overly worried about what people think or don't think.
Speaker 2: I'm much more worried about what my employees think about
Speaker 2: their happiness. If you ask me, Gary, if Vaynermedia was
Speaker 2: known by everyone in the industry and you got all
Speaker 2: the accolades and every ad week, pr Week, ad age
Speaker 2: at the possible conference, you were awarded the best marketer
Speaker 2: to ever live in Vaynermedia, the best agency. All of
Speaker 2: that combined is half as interesting to me in that
Speaker 2: my company's fifteen years old and you have almost one
Speaker 2: hundred people that have worked in it for over ten years,
Speaker 2: in an industry where people leave after eighteen months every day,
Speaker 2: that I like the truth. I like real shit retention
Speaker 2: of your employees for an agency owner should be the
Speaker 2: number one, two, three, four, five, six, and seven kpi
Speaker 2: other than can you make payroll right? Not the amount
Speaker 2: of people that spend more time in our industry, counting
Speaker 2: how many can lions the firm has won versus their
Speaker 2: employee retention tells you everything that I think you need
Speaker 2: to know about our industry right now.
Speaker 1: And how they talk about yourself as a leader and
Speaker 1: the business you're running. E said, Yeah, well that's the
Speaker 1: thing with me. I'm such a big personality. I'm a character.
Speaker 1: I'm not confused by that.
Speaker 2: I've watched people be surprised how well my employees talk
Speaker 2: about me behind my back, and that is deeply rewarding,
Speaker 2: deeply rewarding, what super rewarding.
Speaker 1: Congratulations to this. I hear you know that you're proud
Speaker 1: of this, and you can be for sure, and obviously
Speaker 1: that gives you confidence. You know that you do a
Speaker 1: lot of things right, you know, running your different companies.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about our industry we are acting in,
Speaker 1: you know, the wider marketing world. Yes, I think it's
Speaker 1: a trend to talk about trends. Right. Everybody you know
Speaker 1: on a stage is asking you how what's coming up?
Speaker 1: So you're in social media, you and NFTCRE in cryptocurrency
Speaker 1: and concentration. Okay, so I've heard you talk about social
Speaker 1: shopping as a kind of trend. Everybody what a surprise
Speaker 1: talks about AI. Yes, let's specify a bit more. What
Speaker 1: is the trend we are facing in the next couple
Speaker 1: of months.
Speaker 2: So look, and you may know you're you're so, you're
Speaker 2: so in this as well. You'll probably know this probably
Speaker 2: if you especially if you're prepping a little bit for
Speaker 2: this interview. I have stayed somewhat quiet so far on
Speaker 2: AI compared to the way I usually roll. And the
Speaker 2: reason I've done that is I don't like to talk
Speaker 2: about shit until I'm really knowledgeable. I've been watching China
Speaker 2: live shopping for eight years. I've been waiting Christian for
Speaker 2: live social shopping like you can't imagine. I've been waiting
Speaker 2: for the qvcification of social for a long time, and
Speaker 2: it's immediate. Abercrombie and Fitch right now is a fact
Speaker 2: did by live shopping and affiliate influencers like it changed
Speaker 2: their business Mary Roots Organic Like. What I like about
Speaker 2: why I'm talking about live social shopping is I know
Speaker 2: everybody on the incredible possible stage that I'm going to
Speaker 2: take in a couple of months if they sell something,
Speaker 2: not B to B, but if they or a service.
Speaker 2: But if they sell something can be very impacted positively
Speaker 2: because of it AI as a trend. And I'm gonna
Speaker 2: say this as respectfully as I can, because I feel
Speaker 2: like I was getting you know, I always feel misunderstood
Speaker 2: when I'm rasing the industry. I RaSE the industry because
Speaker 2: I love the industry and I don't want us to disappear. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, there's a reason people are taking things in house.
Speaker 2: We as agencies are not providing enough value. I think
Speaker 2: what's happening in our industry, with all due respect the
Speaker 2: Madison Avenue industry compared to the Silicon Valley industry is
Speaker 2: we have a lot of talking heads talking about AI
Speaker 2: that really have no idea what the fuck they're talking about.
Speaker 2: And so I don't want to be a contributor to that.
Speaker 2: And and it's so big, you know, Live social shopping
Speaker 2: is a nice transformation in commerce and content creation production days,
Speaker 2: and I can get nerdy about it. AI is one
Speaker 2: of the biggest inventions and innovations in the history of mankind,
Speaker 2: and so I am trying to be very thoughtful and
Speaker 2: listening and paying attention. Plus it's moving very quickly, and
Speaker 2: so you know both. I mean, AI is something everybody
Speaker 2: who's listening to this podcast, everybody that comes to your
Speaker 2: incredible conference, should be spending time on. They should be
Speaker 2: using it, they should be downloading the apps, they should
Speaker 2: be understanding it. It is a big deal. It's a
Speaker 2: big deal by the way, for anyone who's listening that
Speaker 2: their business relies on search, they should really be paying
Speaker 2: attention because it's going to disrupt search engines. It's a
Speaker 2: big deal. But it's way beyond what everyone thinks. It's
Speaker 2: going to be omnipresent. It's gonna affect so much. So anyway,
Speaker 2: I think that people should be doing their own homework
Speaker 2: on AI, meaning actively using these products, becoming a user
Speaker 2: of not just listening to talking heads talk about it.
Speaker 2: I think the two actually mix in. I think, let
Speaker 2: me just put a string of trends together. I think
Speaker 2: virtual influencers is going to become a big deal. Okay,
Speaker 2: I think virtual influencers doing live shopping backed by powered
Speaker 2: by AI is going to be a big deal for
Speaker 2: a lot of our businesses. And so there's just a
Speaker 2: lot going on. I think I'll give you a less
Speaker 2: exciting trend, but it's been my passion. I'm excited it's
Speaker 2: finally happening. I think the reallocation of the P and
Speaker 2: L budget to organic social creative because of how the
Speaker 2: algorithms work is one of the biggest trends everyone should
Speaker 2: be paying attention to. That's interesting, it's less sexy, it's
Speaker 2: very narrow, but I cannot believe how much growth my
Speaker 2: company has had this year where brands are spending more
Speaker 2: on social organic creative than they are on above the line.
Speaker 2: And that happened over the last twenty four months in
Speaker 2: a meaningful way, and it's a back to like caring
Speaker 2: about practicality versus futurism. I think a lot of people
Speaker 2: listening here. I hope they're paying attention to that because
Speaker 2: that's a big game changer for a lot of brands
Speaker 2: right now.
Speaker 1: So spending time creating experiences being really using that and
Speaker 1: not just listening to people. What should be the next
Speaker 1: one I hear you, is this the biggest you know
Speaker 1: gap you know for traditional corporate leaders that they might
Speaker 1: not still do understand about the modern business landscape? Is
Speaker 1: this the case or is there anything else you would
Speaker 1: give them? What kind of advice you would give corporate leaders?
Speaker 1: Is it to spend more time, you know, with what's
Speaker 1: really going on out there and not just tetting your team, Hey,
Speaker 1: let me know what you think, but spending their own
Speaker 1: time doing this.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I think being a practition to your point
Speaker 2: of where you're leading this, being a practitioner is incredible,
Speaker 2: Like you know, one of the reasons, Like I don't
Speaker 2: know if people know this. If you go into the
Speaker 2: history of me, there's two years where there's no Gary
Speaker 2: Vee content because I wanted to be the operator and
Speaker 2: I am the operator Vainner Media twenty eleven twenty thirteen, Like,
Speaker 2: there's very little content of me, very little, it's insane.
Speaker 2: From six to today, I am prolific, but there's this weird
Speaker 2: little twenty four month gap. And do you know what happened, Christian?
Speaker 2: I was running my business less wine videos, right, less
Speaker 2: business videos, and at the back end of those twenty
Speaker 2: four months, it became obvious to me that I was
Speaker 2: losing my touch. Interesting because I wasn't being a practitioner anymore.
Speaker 2: I could feel like people would ask me something about
Speaker 2: Reddit or Twitter or something. I'm like, oh fuck, So
Speaker 2: I went all back into Gary Vee and I did
Speaker 2: everything YouTube and LinkedIn and Snapchat and and it's I
Speaker 2: believe today, when I'm in again, it will happen. When
Speaker 2: I come to Possible, there'll be a cocktail hour, There'll
Speaker 2: be six of us hanging around, and when we get
Speaker 2: into it, it's very quickly obvious to me that the
Speaker 2: agency CEO that's sitting there with me that the two
Speaker 2: CMO those that you know, somebody that like most people
Speaker 2: that get senior, they lose or touched to the dirt. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and so yes, I think that's very good advice. I
Speaker 2: would also say the following creative's too expensive for our
Speaker 2: industry and we're getting outflanked. We have to stop paying
Speaker 2: the production dollars we're spending. And number two, the other
Speaker 2: thing I would say that I would recommend to corporate
Speaker 2: leaders is our media spends are being spent on potential reach,
Speaker 2: not common sense actual reach.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I.
Speaker 2: Would highly recommend, if that caught a nerve, for them
Speaker 2: to look under the hood on how we're reporting against
Speaker 2: reach and our mmms. And there's some real, real, real
Speaker 2: vulnerabilities in marketing right now, and the doors are closing
Speaker 2: in on us with these new brands that are popping up,
Speaker 2: that are doing it in a contemporary way that don't
Speaker 2: follow the Madison Avenue playbook, and we need to adjust
Speaker 2: or we're gonna have some problems.
Speaker 1: So becoming or going back to the entrepreneurship in some way, right,
Speaker 1: you know, when you start your business you do everything
Speaker 1: on your own. That's a kind of step you know,
Speaker 1: back and learn more about, you know, than just listening
Speaker 1: to somebody. So talking about advice for leadership and you
Speaker 1: know also young people you've mentioned already, you know, being
Speaker 1: happy about your self awareness. What's the one misconception people
Speaker 1: have about what it really takes to be happy? What
Speaker 1: is the you know, to fulfill you know, what you
Speaker 1: do and to not necessarily meet expectations of course, and
Speaker 1: also not not everybody's expectation out there, because you know,
Speaker 1: if people know somebody, then they should have an opinion
Speaker 1: on you, but not you know, not knowing somebody and
Speaker 1: talk about but what makes a difference to be really
Speaker 1: happy in business?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think this bleeds into life. I believe what
Speaker 2: and this is a man This has been something I've
Speaker 2: been fascinating my whole life. Yeah, you know, some people
Speaker 2: are lucky. And I don't like using the word luck
Speaker 2: because I think the word luck is weaponized by people
Speaker 2: that are entitled and not looking to do anything. But
Speaker 2: some people are lucky. And I'm one of those people
Speaker 2: where where you're born into your DNA is a certain way,
Speaker 2: and then the parent or parents that mold you are
Speaker 2: a certain way. When people like one of the reasons
Speaker 2: I'll do a podcast like this and talk about myself
Speaker 2: quote unquote is I don't think I deserve any of
Speaker 2: the accolades that are bestowed on me. I think that
Speaker 2: they are When I get accolades, that's a flattering moment
Speaker 2: for my parents, not me. So I enjoy this because
Speaker 2: I know my mom's listening right now because she listens
Speaker 2: to everything. And I like when you're like, hey, good job, Gary,
Speaker 2: I feel that's like you're giving love to tomorrow Vaynerchuk,
Speaker 2: not Gary, so that I like. So some people are
Speaker 2: just fortunate. I knew that I was fortunate. I was
Speaker 2: self aware. I was so emotionally intelligent in the scheme
Speaker 2: of things. In hindsight, my whole life. I see it
Speaker 2: a lot of my son by the way, so now
Speaker 2: I know what it is. He's very empathetic. It's crazy
Speaker 2: like everything he just feels, and I was that way.
Speaker 2: I have some answers to this because I've studied for
Speaker 2: a long time and I watch people. I believe disproportionately
Speaker 2: the secret to happiness and business and in life is simplicity.
Speaker 2: You know, we're getting to know each other more and
Speaker 2: more Christian. If you really knew me, let's say we
Speaker 2: really grew up together, you really knew me, well, you
Speaker 2: would know. And twenty people know this about me? Is
Speaker 2: I care about nothing professionally? It would I'm telling you, brother,
Speaker 2: I'm telling you, it would fucking stun you how little
Speaker 2: fucks I give about Gary Vee, Vayner viv It's shocked.
Speaker 2: I am so detached emotionally from my professional career. It's
Speaker 2: almost like I don't know if it's brilliant or fucked upness.
Speaker 2: I don't know what it is, but I will tell
Speaker 2: you that the only thing that I give a shit
Speaker 2: about actually is are the fifteen people I love the
Speaker 2: most on earth, healthy and alive. And I'm crippled when
Speaker 2: there's a health scare, and I'm light as a feather
Speaker 2: when there's not. I have so much adversity. I'm a
Speaker 2: human being. I'm forty nine years old. I have things
Speaker 2: in my personal life. I have a billion pressures in business.
Speaker 2: There's not a day in business where I don't have
Speaker 2: fucked up news. We let go of somebody today that
Speaker 2: I care about deeply. It's fucked with me for three months.
Speaker 2: Three months, this has been a heaviness on my chest.
Speaker 2: It's hard to be a leader and to be out there,
Speaker 2: and I'm a public figure, all that judgment, all those
Speaker 2: whispers behind your back, like all that stuff. But the
Speaker 2: reason is it's humility. I don't think I'm that important.
Speaker 2: I think I'll die one day. Maybe I'll get twenty
Speaker 2: four hours on whatever the social media, if social media
Speaker 2: even exists at the time, I'll get some flowers, right,
Speaker 2: and then everybody will move on with their life. My
Speaker 2: family will care longer. And so I think humility and simplicity.
Speaker 2: I don't need stuff. I don't need a fucking private
Speaker 2: jet to impress anybody. I don't care if people think
Speaker 2: I'm good, bad, or indifferent. I want them. I care
Speaker 2: if you know me, By the way, Christian, I care
Speaker 2: more today what you think about me than two years ago,
Speaker 2: because we've interacted more that matters to me. But right now,
Speaker 2: I promise you, Maddie, who's sitting right heroes worked with me.
Speaker 2: Now what Mattie nine eight years, I really give a
Speaker 2: lot of I care. Maddie is not as important to
Speaker 2: people in the advertising world as Christian is. But I
Speaker 2: can tell you right now, I could give a fuck
Speaker 2: what you think compared to Maddie, because Maddie knows, and
Speaker 2: so I think the secret to life is detachment from
Speaker 2: bullshit and deep attachment to love.
Speaker 1: Which is a huge achievement if you allow yourself to
Speaker 1: think like this, I would say. But also in acting
Speaker 1: in business, you know, in so many ways to give
Speaker 1: a shit on you know, other's opinion in that way.
Speaker 1: Not many people can do this, as we all know.
Speaker 1: We know we are pressed into a framework, you know,
Speaker 1: especially when you work for bigger companies, et cetera. But
Speaker 1: you're your own boss, and maybe that's also one of
Speaker 1: the key differences.
Speaker 2: Yes, but I'm my own boss that plays with the market,
Speaker 2: right right, Like you know, it's a different version. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's many days when I wake up and I'm like,
Speaker 2: you know, being judged by three random people that are
Speaker 2: my bosses. Sounds really good right now, versus you know,
Speaker 2: the field of society, you know, so like you know,
Speaker 2: there's different versions of it, but yeah, simplicity and humility,
Speaker 2: and people say it, but then they don't act on it.
Speaker 2: I've unfortunately had to let go of leaders through the
Speaker 2: years who say they care about people, but they don't.
Speaker 2: They're posturing, they're politicking me, they're trying to appease me.
Speaker 2: But you know, I tell people, I mean, I tell
Speaker 2: people all the time, don't worry about what I think
Speaker 2: about you. Worry about what the people who work for
Speaker 2: you think about you. Maddie Will if you hung out
Speaker 2: with Maddie, she would tell you it's wild how senior
Speaker 2: some of the people have been that have gotten fired here,
Speaker 2: the leaders, because they just if you can't get along
Speaker 2: with the boys and girls, especially the ones that you're leading,
Speaker 2: you're not for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Gary, I have a last one. Please, You've accomplished
Speaker 1: so much already. What's one thing you still feel, you know,
Speaker 1: like you you must do before you call it a day,
Speaker 1: professional whatever, whatever?
Speaker 2: Overall, I'd like to I'd like to become even a
Speaker 2: better father. I think I'm a great son, like the
Speaker 2: best I feel like, I feel like I can walk.
Speaker 2: I can't wait to go to heaven. I expect God
Speaker 2: to give me like best Son Ever award, But I
Speaker 2: feel like there's more to be done as a father.
Speaker 2: I have a fifteen and twelve year old. I want
Speaker 2: to really crush that and do more there. Number two. Professionally,
Speaker 2: I'd like to create a company that has the most
Speaker 2: amount of offspring from the company that went on to
Speaker 2: build companies that are similar to mine, which are wildly
Speaker 2: successful but also nice to their employees. I'd like to
Speaker 2: reframe the company. Actually, I'm going to give you a
Speaker 2: slightly different answer, but it's the same answer. Before I'm done. Professionally,
Speaker 2: I would like to rebrand nice Guys Finish Last to
Speaker 2: nice Guys Finish First. That's what I would like to do.
Speaker 1: That's a great statement to the end of our conversation today,
Speaker 1: and to your first point, I'm pretty sure and I
Speaker 1: know that he's a great son because you're a great father,
Speaker 1: so that's for sure. And I can tell you because
Speaker 1: I have a son as well as you know, and
Speaker 1: I feel in a very similar way. So Gary, that
Speaker 1: conversation was nothing short, but incredible. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for your time, your energy, insights, and that honest conversation.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure you know many of our listeners will
Speaker 1: walk away ready to hustle Haara and think bigger, appreciate manness.
Speaker 2: Let me say one last thing. I assume we're going
Speaker 2: to put this out before the conference, right, that's a plan. Yes, okay, good?
Speaker 2: Let me just send with this please please please, Because
Speaker 2: I see it in your eyes, which is why I
Speaker 2: approach so many people. I'm going to be around quite
Speaker 2: a bit. I actually am so happy this is happening
Speaker 2: because I get to say it out loud. I send
Speaker 2: this to you in person. Now I want to say
Speaker 2: it out loud. The conference you've created has become the newest,
Speaker 2: most important conference in our industry. That's an incredible accomplishment
Speaker 2: in what is fucking two minutes? What is this year?
Speaker 3: Three?
Speaker 1: It's going to be the three yees.
Speaker 2: Correct, It's absurd what you've become published you and your partners.
Speaker 2: I'm going to be around a lot more this year
Speaker 2: because I'm allocating more time, because it's that important. If
Speaker 2: you happen to see me, like walking in the hotel wherever,
Speaker 2: and you want to say hello. Please say hello. Relationships
Speaker 2: are everything.
Speaker 1: We make sure you have to connect with the right
Speaker 1: people and then connect with the right one and this
Speaker 1: is you for sure. Gary, appreciate you. Thank you very
Speaker 1: much for mind see you by. Thanks for tuning in everyone.
Speaker 1: Once again, I'm your host, Christian Moho. If you have
Speaker 1: a question or suggestion to me, reach out, send me
Speaker 1: a d M on LinkedIn. If you're courious to learn
Speaker 1: more about Possible, sign up for our newsletter, or if
Speaker 1: you want to join us at the Possible Show in Miami,
Speaker 1: visit possibleevent dot com. Possible Now is a co production
Speaker 1: of iHeartMedia and Possible. Our executive producers are Ryan Martz
Speaker 1: and Yasmin Melendez. Our supervising producer is Meredith Barnes. Special
Speaker 1: thanks to Colleen Lawrence Mac from our programming team. Our
Speaker 1: theme music is composed by Anthony Keticoli. For more podcasts
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Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.