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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Ye,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to the show Ridiculous Historians. As always, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for tuning in. We're talking about riots,

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Speaker 1: not the zoot suit riot which I was thinking about earlier. Right,

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Speaker 1: he has are the only good kind of riots, right,

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Speaker 1: fun kind of riots, you know, speaking of a fun

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Speaker 1: kind of riot. Uh, you know, we've got our own

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Speaker 1: one man riot. Our super producer Max Williams with us

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Speaker 1: as always. I'm Ben, I have never been to Maine, nol.

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Speaker 1: Have you been to Maine? No, it seems like all

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Speaker 1: of our friends are going to Maine lately. Um, our

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Speaker 1: buddy a how Andrew Howard shout out, Um, he grew

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Speaker 1: up in Maine and he was just out there. And

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Speaker 1: then our buddy Sean was just in Maine. And uh

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Speaker 1: and also buddy, our buddy Chuck was just in Maine.

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Speaker 1: Or was seeing all these Instagram pictures of plenty of

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Speaker 1: just lobster rolls for days, drawn butter and whoopee pies.

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Speaker 1: It just seems like a magical land of of of

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Speaker 1: delicious foods. That's what it seems like to me. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and we are now technically back on our show for

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Speaker 1: every state horse. Uh, this I propose will be our

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Speaker 1: main episode. What do you think are you down? Most?

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Speaker 1: Definitely our main episode for the day, you know doing

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Speaker 1: Thank you Max, Thank you man. It's very kind. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: it's true Maine, you know, like with an e. I

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Speaker 1: grew up in a town in Georgia called Augusta, and

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Speaker 1: I was always tickled to think there is a sister

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Speaker 1: city to Augusta in Maine called Augusta may And I'm

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Speaker 1: sure there's Augusta's all over elsewhere, but that's the one

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Speaker 1: I also remember from my youth, my friends from Maine,

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Speaker 1: including the infamous Andrew Howard, who does awesome work on

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Speaker 1: our peer podcast Saver. Check it out if you like

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Speaker 1: stories about food, science and culture. Andrew is, like many

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Speaker 1: main Natives, one of the people as a similar question

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Speaker 1: to yours nol Their version is Portland, Oregon versus Portland's Maine,

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Speaker 1: and that's where our story takes place. Today. We're going

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Speaker 1: to meet a guy who's kind of a pill. His

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Speaker 1: name is Mayor Neil Dow and in a way, as

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Speaker 1: we will find today, he often called the Napoleon of Temperance,

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Speaker 1: was one of the primary driving forces for what would

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Speaker 1: eventually become for a short while of federal law banning alcohol.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to figure out how Maine and how

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Speaker 1: something called the rum Riot of eighteen fifty five lad

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Speaker 1: to prohibition, or how it was all wrapped up in

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Speaker 1: this bigger story. Let's so, let's let's go to Let's

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Speaker 1: go to New England. An excellent article by main History

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Speaker 1: helps us get a grasp of the context here. So

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Speaker 1: in like By, there were a lot of changes in

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Speaker 1: religious ideas and cultural attitudes in New England overall, not

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Speaker 1: just Maine. And this led to a lot of reform

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Speaker 1: because you know, there was quite literally a Puritanical society

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Speaker 1: there for some time, and as the more strict views

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Speaker 1: of Puritans began to hold less sway, Protestants started to think,

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Speaker 1: you know what, it's totally possible for any person to

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Speaker 1: reach perfection in their lives and therefore reach paradise after

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Speaker 1: they pass away. So we're gonna reform ourselves. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: reform our communities. We're gonna try to be better people.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna fight for women's suffrage, we're gonna abolish slavery,

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Speaker 1: We're going to try to take care of the less

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Speaker 1: fortunate members of society, and a lot of people took

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Speaker 1: active roles leading these movements. So by the second decade,

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Speaker 1: by eighteen twenty and going forward, New England had a

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Speaker 1: secret Despite these reforms, people were talking about it. New

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Speaker 1: England especially was seen as sort of a focal point

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Speaker 1: for what people believed was America's growing problem with alcohol consumption.

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Speaker 1: And honestly, people drink a lot back then, Like it

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Speaker 1: might surprise you if you accidentally traveled back in time

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Speaker 1: to just see how regularly people are getting souced. We

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Speaker 1: know that, like it's back to the colonial days, right,

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Speaker 1: doesn't surprise me. And even before the colonial days, when

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Speaker 1: like meat or whatever in the medieval time was just

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Speaker 1: a substitute for like filthy water. You know, people were

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Speaker 1: basically just drinking it to to stay hydrated, but also

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Speaker 1: a little counterintuitives, as we know that alcohol dehydrates you.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean apparently they were even like drunk

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Speaker 1: kids kind of like you know, carousing around on the streets.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it was absolute bed lump. I totally understand.

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Speaker 1: But a quick question for you, the idea of temperance, right,

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Speaker 1: temperance doesn't necessarily mean abstinence, temperance just means like measured use, right, uh,

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Speaker 1: temperance you can use things in a temperate way and

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Speaker 1: like a moderate way. But but the Temperance movement had

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Speaker 1: a couple of different positions, sort of on a spectrum.

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Speaker 1: So they would be dedicated to promoting moderate use of alcohol,

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Speaker 1: like hey, have a few drinks at dinner or at

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Speaker 1: a party, but not constantly every day. More often than not, though,

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Speaker 1: the Temperance Movement advocated for teetotally, for complete abstinence from liquor.

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Speaker 1: A bunch of teetotalitarians they were. But again I get it.

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Speaker 1: I mean it was a problem. You know, people were

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Speaker 1: losing their jobs, people were just absolutely kind of like

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Speaker 1: wasting away, and and even like homelessness became. I mean

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Speaker 1: it really was kind of a new, uh, real, real,

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Speaker 1: real problem that was sweeping the country. And children were

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Speaker 1: running around drunk. I know, it's wild. Uh. And and

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Speaker 1: this was a reaction to that. So while maybe at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day there was some overreach happening,

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Speaker 1: I completely understand. And it was associated, like you said, Ben,

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Speaker 1: with stuff like abolitionism and um, women's suffrage. It was

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Speaker 1: just the idea to make the world the country first

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Speaker 1: and foremost a better place. So we started to see

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Speaker 1: groups like the Temperance Watchmen of Durham, Maine popping up.

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Speaker 1: That was one of the first that was formed around

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Speaker 1: eighty eight. And the idea there was just to you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of lived lead by example, become the sort of

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Speaker 1: moral imperative that others would look to to model their

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Speaker 1: lives after, and they would kind of be able to

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Speaker 1: arrest back, you know, control of of the social conditions

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Speaker 1: um that had kind of gone off the rails by

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Speaker 1: encouraging moderation of drinking. So we weren't quite at teetotalitarianism yet,

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Speaker 1: which is the term that I just made up. So

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Speaker 1: by the mid century in Portland, Maine, we've got Neil

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Speaker 1: dow Uh, that is the mayor who we spoke of earlier.

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Speaker 1: He began to adopt a much more aggressive tactic in

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Speaker 1: this battle against alcoholism. He decided he was going to

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Speaker 1: take this to the state House. Uh, and instead of

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Speaker 1: changing people's attitudes by you know, encouraging temperance and leading

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Speaker 1: by example, he was gonna do that thing that we

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Speaker 1: now know never really works super well, um, which was

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Speaker 1: to change the laws and tell people what they could

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Speaker 1: not do so, rather than telling people to maybe drink

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Speaker 1: a little less, he branded all drinkers as rum dealers.

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Speaker 1: That was a a term of abuse that was hurled

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Speaker 1: around at the time. Yeah, this is the thing. Dal

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Speaker 1: went especially hard in the paint here. He quickly left

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Speaker 1: the moderates behind, including people like the governor at the time,

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Speaker 1: William King, who loved a good glass of wine. He

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Speaker 1: founded the first statewide temperance Association. Again this from the

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Speaker 1: main history dot org website. Let's learn a little bit

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Speaker 1: more about Neil all right. So Neil is born to

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Speaker 1: a Quaker family, a pretty well to do Quaker family

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Speaker 1: in Portland, Maine, in March March eighteen o four, and

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Speaker 1: after he gets out of high school he enters his

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Speaker 1: dad's tanning business. It's very common at this time in

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Speaker 1: history for people to join a family business. At the time,

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Speaker 1: Portland's is a booming trade center, and it's known in

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Speaker 1: particular for being involved in the rum trade with the

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Speaker 1: West Indies, and the economic system was something like this.

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Speaker 1: The people of Portland, or the economy of Portland would

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Speaker 1: trade its lumber and the products of its fisheries for

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Speaker 1: rum and molasses. Molasses got turned into rum in these

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Speaker 1: distilleries in Maine. Portland, Maine alone by itself had seven

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Speaker 1: different distilleries. And so you know how you can walk

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Speaker 1: through parts of New York City and you'll see a

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Speaker 1: Starbucks literally every block. That's the situation with booze joints

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Speaker 1: in Portland, Maine in the eighteen hundreds. You couldn't not

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Speaker 1: find a saloon or a tavern on every street. And

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Speaker 1: if you didn't somehow run into a saloon or a tavern,

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Speaker 1: you know, a bar basically, then you could just pop

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Speaker 1: into a grocery store because they would also sell you liquor.

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Speaker 1: And this upset now because he saw he saw this

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Speaker 1: clear correlation between over consumption of alcohol and all sorts

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Speaker 1: of problems in his community. He hated alcohol since day one.

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Speaker 1: This was first day stuff to him. He also hated

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Speaker 1: slavery because he believed that rum and slavery fed off

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Speaker 1: of one another. He had a good point, because rum,

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Speaker 1: the slavery system, and the sugar economy fueled the triangle

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Speaker 1: trade between the Caribbean, the US, and the African continent

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Speaker 1: back then. In general, Americans drink get this three times

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Speaker 1: as much as they do today, which just boggles the mind,

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Speaker 1: how do people get anything done? I can't imagine again,

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Speaker 1: like we said that even back to medieval times when

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Speaker 1: people were just drinking all day every day like as

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Speaker 1: their beverage, I think that they must just develop higher

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Speaker 1: tolerances and also just blast your liver. People died a

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Speaker 1: lot younger in these days too, um so Ben, just

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Speaker 1: just to clarify real quick. So this triangle trade, you know,

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Speaker 1: because that was that was what facilitated the slave trade

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Speaker 1: as well, and because of the roots, correct, that's where

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Speaker 1: the slaves would be taken you know, to the US

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Speaker 1: on those roots, Is that right? Yeah? You can also

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Speaker 1: see this referred to as the colonial molasses trade. This

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Speaker 1: part of it would happen is slave traders based in

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Speaker 1: New England would bring rum to the African continent and

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Speaker 1: they would use that to purchase enslaved people. And then

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Speaker 1: those people who have been enslaved were brought to the

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Speaker 1: West Indies and they were sold to sugarcane plantations where

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Speaker 1: they were forced to work harvesting sugar that made molasses

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Speaker 1: that went to New England into those distilleries, got turned

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Speaker 1: into rum and then sold back on the African continent

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Speaker 1: rents and repeat in god diabolical way. That makes sense.

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Speaker 1: So again, like his heart's in the right place, he's

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Speaker 1: seeing a real problem. Um. That that figures into you know,

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Speaker 1: those kind of like top tier problems that we were addressing,

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Speaker 1: that even the women's temperance movements were addressing. Um. So

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Speaker 1: this is a social justice issue at heart, or at

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Speaker 1: least where his heart is. Maybe he goes a little

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Speaker 1: too hard in the paint, like you said, ben Um,

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Speaker 1: but he becomes known as the Napoleon of temperance. Um

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Speaker 1: at the age of twenty three, by the way, he

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Speaker 1: founded the main Temperance Society, and he was absolutely instrumental

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Speaker 1: in getting the twenty eight gallon law passed in eighty six,

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Speaker 1: according to an author named Kate McCarty, who writes that

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Speaker 1: this law prohibited the sales of alcohol in less than

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Speaker 1: twenty eight gallont quantities to everyone except doctors. H And

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Speaker 1: that meant that the super wealthy could afford to buy alcohol,

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Speaker 1: but the average folks couldn't. So it was, you know,

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Speaker 1: obviously a bit of a classist kind of law, but

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Speaker 1: I would imagine that it definitely, you know, was effective

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Speaker 1: to some degree in the same way as you know,

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Speaker 1: we maybe had folks have folks in bigger cities selling

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Speaker 1: like loose cigarettes, which is totally illegal. Um, you had

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Speaker 1: shops called tippling shops that sold single drinks. That's where

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Speaker 1: the average people would would be getting their booze. But

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Speaker 1: they were always you know, targeted and shut down. And

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Speaker 1: these were essentially like the earlier forms of speakeasies. Well,

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Speaker 1: booze wasn't completely illegal, you couldn't sell it in such

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Speaker 1: small amounts. And he kind of cut his political teeth

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Speaker 1: on policies like this, uh, and became associated, you know,

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Speaker 1: with the temperance movement and what would ultimately become prohibition. Yeah. Yeah, he.

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Speaker 1: I want to share this anecdote because I think it's

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Speaker 1: I think it gives us a glimpse into the workings

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Speaker 1: of the man's mind. Writing for the Irish Times, uh,

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Speaker 1: we found this pretty fascinating and a little bit disturbing

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Speaker 1: instance of just how unmoderate Dal was. Nathan Mannion, in

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Speaker 1: the article The Irish who instigated the Portland's Rum Riots,

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Speaker 1: notes that Dal kneeled Down hated alcohol so much that

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Speaker 1: when he was promoted to fire chief once upon a time,

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Speaker 1: he let the local liquor store burn to the ground.

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Speaker 1: Instead of putting out the fire, he just watched it blaze.

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Speaker 1: This guy was not playing around, and his stance found support.

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Speaker 1: He was elected the mayor of Portland, Maine, in eighteen

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Speaker 1: fifty one, and as soon as he became mayor, he

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Speaker 1: went to the state legislature of Maine and persuaded them

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Speaker 1: to pass a prohibition law. This means that Maine becomes

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Speaker 1: the very first state in the Union to ban alcohol.

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Speaker 1: Like you said, there was a bit of class and

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Speaker 1: classicism wrapped up in the way this law was applied.

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Speaker 1: There were exceptions. You could buy or sell alcohol for medical,

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Speaker 1: mechanical or manifest acturing purposes, and if you wanted to

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Speaker 1: do any of that, you had to have a special

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Speaker 1: license that exempted you from the you know, the hoi

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Speaker 1: polloi who would just be using alcohol recreationally. So that

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Speaker 1: was downright draconian about this. He went to the people,

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Speaker 1: the good alcohol business folk of Portland's and he said, look,

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Speaker 1: you got two weeks to sell your alcohol out of

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Speaker 1: this state before we start cracking down. Other states caught on,

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Speaker 1: Massachusetts says, hey, that's a pretty good idea. Let's model

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Speaker 1: our own reforms after what they're doing in Maine. So

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Speaker 1: in a way, as main History notes, the States seemed

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Speaker 1: to be living up to its motto, which I did

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Speaker 1: not know. I don't know if you guys knew this motto,

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Speaker 1: diriggio I lead. What is deriggio? Is that like excelsior,

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Speaker 1: Like this is one of these weird words that only

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Speaker 1: gets thrown around by eccentric billionaires. Yeah, it's Latin. It

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Speaker 1: means I direct or, I guide. Excelsior is Latin two

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Speaker 1: in them. Yes, excelsior it's Latin for higher. So this

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Speaker 1: is where the guy earns his nickname, the Napoleon of Temperance,

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Speaker 1: and he starts promoting his approach, his no excuses, hard

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Speaker 1: nosed approach to prohibition, both across the country and across

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Speaker 1: the world. But here's the thing. If you've listened to

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Speaker 1: our earlier episodes on Prohibition stories, or if you've checked

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Speaker 1: out some of the stuff on stuff they don't want

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Speaker 1: you to know about the shenanigans the US government and

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Speaker 1: organized crime got up to during alcohol Prohibition, you know

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Speaker 1: that making laws like this don't really work. And that's

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Speaker 1: not a moral point. It's just that the main law,

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Speaker 1: like the later National Prohibition Law, didn't stop everyone from drinking.

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Speaker 1: People in Maine found ways around it. In Smithsonian, Katschner

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Speaker 1: specifically cites a article in the Portland's Press Herald by

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Speaker 1: Kelly Bouchard, and Bouchard goes deep into how people got

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Speaker 1: around this law. Some folks would just brew booze at home.

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Speaker 1: That wasn't uncommon at all, and they would sell it

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Speaker 1: to their neighbors out of their kitchens. Farmers, if they

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Speaker 1: had a surplus of fruit, would make hard cider or wine.

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Speaker 1: And when people were given fines for violating the law,

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Speaker 1: they just treated it as a business expense. You know,

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Speaker 1: what's that old saying. I ran into it again recently

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Speaker 1: and I thought about how true it is. If the

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Speaker 1: punishment for a crime is a fine, Is that then

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Speaker 1: not a law that only applies to the poor exactly?

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Speaker 1: Is um? And I understand It's It's a tricky thing

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Speaker 1: to discuss, Isn't it bad? Because the most visible folks

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Speaker 1: that are experiencing negative comes because of alcohol consumption are

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Speaker 1: the poor. You know, They're the ones that are in

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Speaker 1: the street, They're the ones that are getting into fights.

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Speaker 1: They're the ones that are potentially, you know, causing mayhem.

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Speaker 1: You know, Um, and in the most visible ways. But

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Speaker 1: you know, the folks that are drinking behind closed doors

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Speaker 1: perhaps and abusing their spouses maybe or just maybe even

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Speaker 1: their children, they're gonna be the ones that are able to,

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Speaker 1: you know, keep it indoors and then be a little

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Speaker 1: more shielded from that kind of thing. It makes sense,

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Speaker 1: on the one hand, from like a very kind of

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Speaker 1: primitive way of of addressing a problem like this. It's

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Speaker 1: something that we still see today. Uh, folks that are

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Speaker 1: more wealthy and more powerful are able to kind of

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Speaker 1: keep doing whatever they want um for the most part,

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Speaker 1: behind closed doors, even if there's a law that that's

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Speaker 1: supposedly supposed to affect everyone the same. Yeah, exactly. It's

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Speaker 1: always laws for the but not for me, as people say.

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Speaker 1: And it's weird because some of the first non Yankee

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Speaker 1: fortunes came from brewing right or from the hundreds and

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Speaker 1: hundreds of kitchen bars that appeared after about eighteen fifty one,

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Speaker 1: and the growing middle class still enjoyed an occasional drink.

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Speaker 1: But because the growing middle class was largely a Yankee demographic,

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Speaker 1: they started to look at what they viewed as excessive

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Speaker 1: drinking to be a hallmark of foreigners, or a problem

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Speaker 1: with the utes, the youths, or a problem with lower

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Speaker 1: class people. Dow, we've painted him in a somewhat sympathetic,

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Speaker 1: if driven light. He's against the dangers of widespread alcohol abuse. Check.

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Speaker 1: People can't agree with that. He's against the horrors and

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Speaker 1: atrocities of slavery. Check. I think we can all agree

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Speaker 1: with that. He was also, however, opposed to immigration, especially

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Speaker 1: immigration from Ireland and Portland. Maine in particular had a

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Speaker 1: pretty sizeable population of Irish immigrants. They could tell that

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Speaker 1: he had beef. They were definitely feeling the crunch because

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Speaker 1: this law disproportionately impact this part of the population. Like

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Speaker 1: you said, he had that two week grace period right

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Speaker 1: after the legislation goes through, And during that two week

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Speaker 1: grace period, all the bars, the public houses, saloons, taverns, distilleries,

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Speaker 1: you name it. They get shut down and the only

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Speaker 1: things left, the only outfits left selling booze, are a

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Speaker 1: small number of illegal things called grog shops. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how I feel about that work. Well, yeah, grog,

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Speaker 1: it's funny. Grog, if I'm not mistaken, is specifically refers

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Speaker 1: to a concoction made with rum. Um. A grog is

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Speaker 1: like there there are tinky drinks with grog in the name,

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Speaker 1: which often consists of rum and other um alcohols you know,

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Speaker 1: mixed with some sort of fruit juice and all of that. UM.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it's true. And this was these were the

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Speaker 1: places where working class and immigrant um communities would hang out.

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Speaker 1: And it was you know, these were like more localized

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Speaker 1: in their neighborhoods UM. And so it essentially was by

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Speaker 1: targeting these after hours grog shops. Uh, they were targeting

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Speaker 1: those communities as well. And not to mention that around

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Speaker 1: eleven percent of the entire city's population were Irish immigrants,

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Speaker 1: and that's around twenty one thousand people. Uh. And they

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Speaker 1: were you know, fleeing their homeland because of the uh

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Speaker 1: the famine, um, the Great Famine. So they were essentially

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Speaker 1: you know, coming for a better life um. And they

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Speaker 1: lived in an area called Munjoy Hill, which was a

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Speaker 1: little bit worse for wear and felt like a slum

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Speaker 1: kind of you know, especially to the police and lawmakers.

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Speaker 1: And this was like ground zero for searching for all

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Speaker 1: of this contraband liquor. But again, it was like a

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Speaker 1: de facto kind of targeting of immigrants. Yeah, yeah, very

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Speaker 1: much so. And you know, life is tough for a

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Speaker 1: lot of these folks who have immigrated around twenty one

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Speaker 1: thousand people at the time. A lot of these folks

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Speaker 1: had survived the Great Famine and made it out and

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Speaker 1: made it to the US. I'm just saying, like I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't I wouldn't fall into the into the error of

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Speaker 1: stereotyping these folks as like a bunch of raging drunkards,

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Speaker 1: you know, which Dal definitely did. They weren't. They were.

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Speaker 1: They were people making a living like anyone else. I

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Speaker 1: want to I want to double back, really because I

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Speaker 1: you you're definitely right, and just want to clarify what

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Speaker 1: I said earlier. I wasn't implying that like all poor

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Speaker 1: people were carousing drunken in the streets. I was just

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Speaker 1: saying that, like they were maybe the most visible, the

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Speaker 1: ones that were problematic would likely be from poorer populations,

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Speaker 1: yet would therefore maybe be the most visible and therefore

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Speaker 1: be seen as the root of the problem, And the

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Speaker 1: richies that could get drunk behind closed wars would not

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Speaker 1: be as visible and would not maybe be lumped in

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Speaker 1: with that for other reasons too. But that was what

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Speaker 1: I was getting. What I'm pointing out is that dow

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Speaker 1: was racist. That's what I'm pointing out. So he completely agreed.

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Speaker 1: He in fact this the sidebars getting to. He in

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Speaker 1: fact later went to Ireland himself and he said, this

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Speaker 1: a glorious country, Ireland is, but the people are reduced

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Speaker 1: to a condition of the most extreme poverty, largely by whiskey.

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Speaker 1: So at the very least he is oversimplifying a very

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Speaker 1: complicated situation. This was consistent though he wasn't switching sides.

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Speaker 1: This was almost identical to public statements he had made

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Speaker 1: in Portland while he was campaigning, and he he had this,

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Speaker 1: he popularized this trope, this idea of a liquor swilling foreigner. Again,

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Speaker 1: as reported by Irish Times, it was his stereotype. Um,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, it reminded me of that

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Speaker 1: eighties stereotype of the so called welfare queen that didn't

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Speaker 1: really hold up to scrutiny and his his stereotype completely

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Speaker 1: ignored the fact that more than three million Irish people

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Speaker 1: twenty years ago had subscribed to a different abstinence society,

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Speaker 1: one called Friar Matthews, and many of those folks later

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Speaker 1: moved to the US and we're fighting for the temperance

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Speaker 1: movement in the United States. But they didn't agree with

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Speaker 1: dal necessarily because they said, look, if you want people

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Speaker 1: to abstain from drinking or abstain from hard liquor, you

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Speaker 1: should help them do it of their own free will

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Speaker 1: instead of coercing them. And so these folks and many

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Speaker 1: other folks honestly were turned off by what they saw

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Speaker 1: as Dao's lack of what would you call it compassion,

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Speaker 1: empathy or is hardline approach. They thought he was alienating

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Speaker 1: more people when he could be helping them. Absolutely, and

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Speaker 1: I mean it's very clear from what you just said, Ben,

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Speaker 1: that these were that this was an unfair stereotype and

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Speaker 1: that there you know that, just like any other group

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Speaker 1: of people, it contains multitudes, and three million of those

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Speaker 1: multitudes were folks that wanted to support abstinence or at

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Speaker 1: the very least, temperance, right. But it's so important to

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Speaker 1: to make that distinction. But we we've seen time and

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Speaker 1: time again and things like the War on drugs and

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Speaker 1: what ultimately became the huge national embarrassment that was abstinence.

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Speaker 1: It just doesn't work when you tell people what they

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Speaker 1: can't do. It's much better to give people the tools

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Speaker 1: they need to do for themselves and to fix themselves

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Speaker 1: and to lead better lives rather than to completely banned

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Speaker 1: something because a people that want to do what they

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Speaker 1: want to do are going to figure out a way

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Speaker 1: to do it. And if you make it more difficult

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Speaker 1: to do, that's when you start seeing the criminal element

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Speaker 1: sneak in. That's like when you start seeing things like

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Speaker 1: with prohibition, what the government like reasoned a bunch of

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Speaker 1: alcohol with like methanol m I think, and then you

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Speaker 1: start seeing people getting killed and getting out of hand.

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Speaker 1: It's like what we see today with you know, tainted

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Speaker 1: drugs on the street. It just doesn't work. And it

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Speaker 1: also leads to simmering resentment for those that uh seek

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Speaker 1: to kind of impose these type of draconian measures on folks.

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Speaker 1: And that's when we get to Dow's reelection campaign in

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Speaker 1: eighteen fifty two. He lost because you know, Irish people

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Speaker 1: can vote too, and he blamed it on them, uh,

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Speaker 1: supposedly illegal voting by Irish does it sure does sound

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Speaker 1: real familiar, not even from that distant history, right like

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Speaker 1: maybe like less than a year ago. And this is

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Speaker 1: all documented very meticulously in a nineteen sixty one book

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Speaker 1: by Frank Byrne called Profit of Prohibition. Kneeled down his crusade.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, okay, so we promised you are riot folks,

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Speaker 1: and and here we go. Dow does get re elected.

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Speaker 1: He loses that first reelection campaign in fifty two, but

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Speaker 1: in fifty five he is elected again. He's only in

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Speaker 1: office for about two months before the Portland's rum Riot occurs.

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Speaker 1: The rum Riot goes down on June two, eighteen fifty five.

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Speaker 1: It involves a lot of Irish and German residents of Portland's.

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Speaker 1: They felt unfairly targeted by the prohibition law, and they

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Speaker 1: learned that Dow had stored sixteen hundred dollars worth of

426
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: alcohol in a vault under city Hall. And I gotta

427
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 1: say this, I listened to a lot of MPR. I

428
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: love it. And ever since I was a kid, there's

429
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 1: always this report, you know, when they do the numbers

430
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,880
Speaker 1: and uh they talked about how the Dow is up

431
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: or down. And I was when I was really young,

432
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 1: I for some reason was convinced that it was like

433
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 1: the spiritual idea, like the Doo, the Tao of of Pooh,

434
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 1: or whatever. Yeah, yeah, I really thought it was I

435
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: thought it was that for a long time. And again

436
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: I was very young, and I thought, well, that's so

437
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 1: nice that they have a spiritual focus. I was wrong.

438
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: They're talking about the DJOS stock market. But I I

439
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: just bring that up because it's it's knocking around in

440
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: my head. And this is also where this Dow, this

441
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: version of the Taos starts to go down. So they're

442
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: not happy about this, these folks who feel like they've

443
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 1: been targeted. There's a small fortune worth of booze just

444
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: under lock and key in city hall. Do you understand why?

445
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: Because in my mind, you know, like the most uh

446
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: inflammatory version of the story is the Dow was act

447
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: like a total hypocrite, was a secret lush that would

448
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: have been amazing. I do not think that is what

449
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: was the case. But why store all this booze? Because

450
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I know there was a law that allowed

451
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: for the storage of booze for medicinal purposes, but even

452
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: that seems really vague and mechanical. Alcohol. Yes, so he

453
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: had earlier in spring of the same year, he had

454
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: authorized the City of Portland to purchase this sixteen hundred

455
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 1: dollars worth of alcohol purely or officially we would say,

456
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: for distribution to doctors and pharmacies. And he did this unilaterally,

457
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 1: not through a committee, which means that technically speaking, he

458
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: broke the laws that he himself supported. And this was

459
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: the real hypocrisy to the Irish population at the time

460
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: in Maine. This is this is pretty interesting. I don't

461
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: know what you guys think about this, but at the

462
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: time in Maine, any three random citizens could vultron up

463
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: or you know, just team up, make a supergroup, go

464
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: to a judge and ask for a search warrant if

465
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: they believed any crime in being committed. So if you

466
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: were listening and you dear ridiculous historian or hanging out

467
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: with Max Noel and yours truly in Maine in this time,

468
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: then we wouldn't even need all four of us. We

469
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: could just get together and say, hey, hey, uh do

470
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: our Scooby Doo kids impression, like, hey, I think there's

471
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: a crime going on, Let's go find a judge. That's

472
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: nuts that you could do that. I I can't believe

473
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: people didn't abuse that power. It's almost like that thing

474
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: with the pottery, you know, with the with the Greeks

475
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: or rather ostracism, like it didn't take Uh, it didn't

476
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: take a huge majority to to make that happen. Uh.

477
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: And it was, as we know, as we found out

478
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: that episode abused from time to time. So uh, this

479
00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: escalated and on June the second, they Irish representatives asked

480
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: for and received a search warrant from that local judge,

481
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: and then that very same day a small crowd started

482
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: to gather outside of city hall. Um. The men showed

483
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: the warrant at the door and were had to be

484
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: allowed in to search the premises, and the police initially

485
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 1: refused them, which was you know, that's not how the

486
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: law works. It's a weird law though, and it been

487
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: itself seems very very unorthodox. Yeah, it is very unorthodox.

488
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: It's a good way to put it. And DALs violation.

489
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: You know, it was not not the end of the world.

490
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: It was a technical violation. But if you were someone

491
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: who wanted to buy liquor in this place and you couldn't,

492
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: you can understand how this seems like a smoking gun

493
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: of hypocrisy. There's even uh an excerpt from a local

494
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: newspaper at the time. It's got great snark. We found

495
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: this through the work of a j Herman who wrote

496
00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: a paper called demon Rum Devious Politics. The paper called

497
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: upon the citizens of Portland, by virtue of Neil Dow's law,

498
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: to steal Neil Dow's liquors and pour them into the street.

499
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: And people were like, hey, he's breaking his own law.

500
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: Forget this guy, and uh. As they were as they

501
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: were gathered, like you said, the crowd started to grow

502
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: and grow and grow, mostly Irish people, but not all

503
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: Irish people. And then they started throwing rocks at the

504
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: building at city Hall. And the report from the Eastern

505
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: Arcus said that occasionally during the evening, stones and brick

506
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: bats were thrown against the door of the liquor store

507
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: parentheses the storage arean City Hall, breaking the glass and

508
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: sashes and otherwise injuring the door. And DW calls out

509
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: the militia, and he doesn't play around at all. He

510
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: doesn't try to talk to people. He just orders them

511
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: to shoot into the crowd. This is quickly going sideways.

512
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: There is a twenty two year old sailor named John

513
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: Robbins from dear Isle who breaks a hole in the

514
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: door of the liquor vault, unlocks it and is instantly

515
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: killed in a volley of gunfire. The crowd is dispersing

516
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 1: because you know, people generally speaking don't want to die,

517
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: but the militia continues to fire and so seven more

518
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: people are injured. On a tragic historic footnote, poor young

519
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: John Robbins was set to get married the very next

520
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: day and never made it sad and this is ultimately

521
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: what led to the dow going down, yep, way down.

522
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: He became kind of a pariah. I mean, he was

523
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: definitely seen as the villain in this because he ordered

524
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: the militia to shoot into the crowd, and he clearly

525
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: had no remorse for what he had done. Uh and

526
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: for the part that he played in escalating this riot,

527
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: rather than you know, maybe you know, using some rhetoric

528
00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 1: to kind of chill things out a little bit. But

529
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: this guy's see like he was a creature of extremes.

530
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: Uh So, this very much feels within his character. And

531
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: he looked at all, like you said, throughout his political career,

532
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 1: he seemed to look at these folks immigrants largely. Maybe

533
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,760
Speaker 1: it was through the lens of of considering them degenerate drunks,

534
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, it was just

535
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,800
Speaker 1: a reason for him to kind of other people, you know,

536
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 1: and he at the end of the day was, like

537
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: you said, just a racist and a xenophobe. He was

538
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 1: ultimately acquitted of the charges that he'd obtained this alcohol illegally,

539
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 1: but surprise, surprise, he lost reelection by quite a wide margin. Yeah,

540
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 1: don't true, your constituents exactly, don't do that. It's bad,

541
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: bad look. Um and uh, surprise surprise again. About a

542
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 1: year later, Maine repealed these draconian prohibition laws. Then, in

543
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,399
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty one, at the age of fifty seven, dw

544
00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,320
Speaker 1: enlisted as a colonel in the thirteenth Main Infantry to

545
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: fight in the Civil War. Um, he they're kind of

546
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: maybe got his dream came true. He was wounded, captured,

547
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 1: and then became a general, So he repaired his reputation

548
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: a bit. It did repair his reputation to some degree.

549
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: It was sort of a you know, even though the

550
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: rum riot obviously a big deal locally, wasn't nearly as

551
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 1: big a story as you know, be becoming a war

552
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: hero injured in the line of duty. He did return

553
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: to to Maine and he never held public office again,

554
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: though he did try to run for governor and for

555
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 1: the presidency of the US on the prohibition ticket, and

556
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: he continued to push for prohibition for the rest of

557
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: his life until he died at the ripe old age

558
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: of ninety three, uh in eighteen seven. I've got a

559
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 1: little bit of political advice for all our aspiring officials,

560
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: fellow ridiculous historians. Generally speaking, if you want to be

561
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: successful in winning over hearts and minds, it's good to

562
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: stand for something. It's good to run for something instead

563
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:14,240
Speaker 1: of against something. And running on one issue doesn't always

564
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: cut the mustard or dilute the rum. That's what grog was,

565
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: by the way, Originally it was rum diluted with water

566
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 1: naval drink. Weird exactly the episode on it, but exactly

567
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,439
Speaker 1: I'm used to hearing it in a tiki drink names.

568
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,720
Speaker 1: You're right, absolutely was like Pirates of the Caribbean type

569
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: total references. So so this is this is the thing.

570
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 1: Because he is only running on an oppositional platform, and

571
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 1: because you know, he authorized militia to fire on civilians.

572
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: He never attains office again, as he said, but he

573
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 1: did leave a legacy because means prohibition experiment was a harbinger,

574
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:02,240
Speaker 1: was foreshadowing and what would later layout across the United States.

575
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 1: I almost said the United Nations keep it in max.

576
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:11,240
Speaker 1: It will play out after the eight Amendment is added

577
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 1: to the U. S Constitution, and tons and tons and

578
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: tons of people will go on to try to find

579
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: ways to get around the restrictions, ways to dodge the law.

580
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 1: We see a renaissance, a golden age for organized crime.

581
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: People make fortunes off bootlegging. One of my favorite examples

582
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: I think was the the grape juice concentrate that was

583
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: sold to people. You guys, it was sold to people,

584
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: and it had instructions on it that essentially said, do

585
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: not do the following things because if you do, it

586
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:53,320
Speaker 1: will create wine. Okay, streight, which is basically instructions for

587
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: how to me. Now, of course everyone's going to do

588
00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 1: the thing. Don't unfold it and do the following things

589
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: because you might accidentally sleep in it. Right. So it's

590
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 1: like if you get pills that say taking these while

591
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: drinking alcohol may cause drowsiness. Uh, please don't operate a

592
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: motor vehicle. That's how you know, those are the fun ones.

593
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,320
Speaker 1: That's what people tell me. That's what people tell me.

594
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: But this, this story is often forgotten. I think when

595
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: people look at the larger problems of caused by prohibition,

596
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 1: whether or not you yourself enjoy a tipple now and then,

597
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,240
Speaker 1: The fact is that there were a lot of serious,

598
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: serious issues with the way the concept of prohibition was

599
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: rolled out, but in the mind of its supporters, they

600
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 1: were combating likewise incredibly serious problems in society. If you

601
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 1: want to learn more about the temperance policy, the concept,

602
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 1: then you can head up to Norway, May where temperance

603
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: is alive and well at a little two room place

604
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: called the Weary Club. W e a r y like

605
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: igree We yes, I grew weary of this episode. Uh no,

606
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 1: it's a good one. It's a very good episode. And

607
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 1: I think we definitely have a trip to Maine. Do

608
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 1: I don't think either one of us have been to Maine.

609
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: Matt Max, have you been to Maine? I have not?

610
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: Is on my list, I hear it's like the most

611
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 1: beautiful state ever, So yeah, on my list. Like I said,

612
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 1: our buddy Sean was posting pictures from like a botanical

613
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: garden main that had all these beautifulures, like statues of

614
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: like elves and stuff and like really cool looking place.

615
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 1: And again the lot you had me at the lobster rolls,

616
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: so definitely have that on my agenda. I'm probably gonna

617
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: head up to me. You know, I don't know if

618
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: I can ship lobster rolls, but i'll I'll definitely send

619
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: you guys some pictures. Actually, I have a friend I've

620
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 1: connected with in Rhode Island over the pandemic who is

621
00:39:55,680 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 1: a lobster fisherman, So lobsterman, a lobsterman, yes, and crab

622
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 1: and and a couple of other things. So, dude, if

623
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 1: you're listening, hook us up. It's tough to get good

624
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: seafood here in Atlanta. Any advice greatly appreciated and uh

625
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: greatly welcomed. While we're thanking people, thank you as always

626
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 1: so much for tuning in, folks. Thanks to the one

627
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: and only Mr Max Williams, who very soon is bound

628
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: for some adventures of his own. Hope you have a

629
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: kick ass time, Max, uh. And also thanks to your

630
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: brother Alex, who composed this slapping track that's probably playing now.

631
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,479
Speaker 1: Is it playing now, people in the curtain, We can't

632
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: hear when it starts. It's definitely playing in our hearts,

633
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: definitely playing also on this track right now, Okay, good

634
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: to know. Good to Christopher Haciotes here in spirit. Jonathan Strickland,

635
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 1: the quis Star. Definitely due back for a for a

636
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:55,280
Speaker 1: popping soon. Uh foreshadowing there, and you Ben, my friend.

637
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: I hope we can one day adventure to main together. Yes.

638
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Speaker 1: In fact, we'll be in a bit of an adventure

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Speaker 1: this weekend, Noel, because I am officiating a wedding and

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Speaker 1: you were probably gonna be at that wedding. I am

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Speaker 1: definitely gonna be there, and I've heard a little bit

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Speaker 1: about this officiation in question, and I'm very excited to

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Speaker 1: tell hopefully in my very good things. No I'm very

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Speaker 1: excited to hang with you and some of our best

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Speaker 1: friends in my hometown of Augusta that I mentioned at

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Speaker 1: the top of the show. Not Augusta, Maine, Augusta, Georgia.

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Speaker 1: And we want to hear from you. As always, hit

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00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 1: us up on Ridiculous Historians on Facebook. You can also

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00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: follow us as not just the show, but as individuals.

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00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: I am at Ben Bulan on Instagram. Bow l I

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Speaker 1: n and uh what about you know? Oh, you can

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00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,839
Speaker 1: find me exclusively on Instagram where I am at how now,

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00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 1: Noel Brown Max, are you still on Instagram as Braves hater. No,

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Speaker 1: I am actually not on Instagram, but if anyone does

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00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: want to follow me, retwreet a lot us about the

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00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 1: Braves podcast and Star Trek, you can follow me at

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00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: at a p L underscore Max Williams. It's just on

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Speaker 1: Twitter and that is on Twitter. Got it all right,

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Speaker 1: duly noted. We'll see you next time, folks. For more

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Speaker 1: podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,