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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 3: But enough with that, let's get to the show.

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Speaker 4: The Russia coverage was not great.

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Speaker 5: Sure, the Russia coverage was not great from who or man.

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Speaker 4: From corporate media. Yeah, I mean just the question about

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Speaker 4: fat Donald Trump didn't have facts on his side.

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Speaker 1: I think that the Russia coverage on CNN was good.

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Speaker 5: I think that Bernie Sanders that that wing of the

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Speaker 5: Democratic Party actually did it as much, if not more

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Speaker 5: damage to Hillary Clinton than Donald Trump.

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Speaker 4: The Nikki Haley comment was that an excuse to purge you.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Counterpoints.

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Speaker 4: I'm Ryan Grim, I'm Emily Dashinsky. We know that you

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Speaker 4: are used to seeing us every Wednesday.

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Speaker 3: But it's Friday. Here we are.

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Speaker 4: We're excited to premiere the Friday edition of Counterpoints, where

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Speaker 4: we'll do long form interviews. We'll do debates with some

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Speaker 4: big names, so make sure to subscribe over at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 4: dot com for early access to every episode.

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Speaker 6: All right, and for today's show, we're joined by a

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Speaker 6: familiar face, former CNN anchor Don Lemon, who's now the

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Speaker 6: host of The Don Lemon Show.

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Speaker 3: Don Lemon, Welcome to Counterpoints.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. I thought you guys said you had big

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Speaker 1: names on this program.

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Speaker 3: Now in the future we'll have big names.

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Speaker 5: After me, your next big name. Thank you guys for

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Speaker 5: having me on.

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Speaker 4: I appreciate it, of course, No, thank you for being here.

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Speaker 4: You're too humble done. But we want to ask you.

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Speaker 4: Your show is streaming everywhere. Our first question for you is, basically,

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Speaker 4: you spent a long time in what a lot of

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Speaker 4: people would describe as the corporate media, what we would

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Speaker 4: often describe as the corporate media, and now you're doing

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Speaker 4: an independent show. So if you could tell us a

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Speaker 4: little bit about what the difference is, you know, between

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Speaker 4: doing the news at this big corporate behemoth and doing

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Speaker 4: the news as an independent anchor where you really get

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Speaker 4: to I'm sure you had a lot of creative corol

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Speaker 4: and freedom at CNN, but now you really have no restrictions.

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Speaker 4: Nobody telling you anything. It's all you.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's two things I think that are most important.

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Speaker 1: One you said freedom. There's freedom, editorial freedom.

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Speaker 5: I probably had the most editorial freedom on my own

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Speaker 5: network than anyone because at the time of I was

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Speaker 5: ob this is the last show on the air, right

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Speaker 5: and it was at night, so I had a lot

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Speaker 5: of editorial freedom, and maybe the bosses weren't even watching

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Speaker 5: at that time, so you know, but I have even

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Speaker 5: more freedom here to say and do whatever I want.

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Speaker 1: And it's mine. I get to do. I get to

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Speaker 1: cover whatever I want.

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Speaker 5: There was a time that I'd have to ask and

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Speaker 5: get permission from everyone just to be on your show,

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Speaker 5: and they would, you know, it would go through the

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Speaker 5: SMP and they'd say this is not worthy, this is worthy.

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Speaker 5: I get to decide what's worthy. I get to decide

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Speaker 5: where I go, so I am my own person. But

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Speaker 5: the most important thing I think is that this is

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Speaker 5: a community and independent media. You build a community. It's

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Speaker 5: from the it's grassroots.

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Speaker 1: From the ground up.

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Speaker 5: People are actually engaged with you. They feel that you

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Speaker 5: are a part of their family so to speak. I mean,

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Speaker 5: people do say I feel like you're a part of

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Speaker 5: my family because I go to sleep with you every night,

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Speaker 5: you know, and so on and so forth. But also

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Speaker 5: it's not just me sitting on an anchor desk, you know, pontificating.

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Speaker 5: It's me talking to the viewers, trying to figure out

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Speaker 5: what is interesting, what they want. And also I have

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Speaker 5: the complete freedom just to be honest with them and

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Speaker 5: they appreciate that, and just to be myself.

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Speaker 1: I do a show.

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Speaker 5: I do this show which is in my studio now,

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Speaker 5: and you know, it's a nice, beautiful studio in Manhattan

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Speaker 5: on Park Avenue.

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Speaker 1: It's great.

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Speaker 5: But the show that gets the most engagement is a

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Speaker 5: show that I do for my living room. I do

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Speaker 5: a live show at five o'clock every day, Lemon Live

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Speaker 5: in my living room every day, where I talk about

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Speaker 5: what's happening in the news, and I take questions and

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Speaker 5: comments from the viewers live from the comment section. And

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Speaker 5: people are so engaged they call themselves a lemonheads or.

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Speaker 1: Lemon nation, and that's what I.

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Speaker 5: Really love about it. So that's the most important thing.

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Speaker 5: I get to build a community. It's not just a

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Speaker 5: one way conversation. And also I have complete toial freedom.

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Speaker 6: When you talk to anchors at CNN or MSNBC. So

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Speaker 6: I write for the Intercept when I'm not doing this program,

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Speaker 6: and all of me talking to them about stories that

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Speaker 6: we've done. Often here, God, we could never put that

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Speaker 6: on air. We just couldn't do that. And I'm curious

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Speaker 6: how often you kind of ran up against those constraints

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Speaker 6: as an anchor, and whether it was about ratings or

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Speaker 6: whether there were other kind of political or commercial interests

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Speaker 6: that would would require you just kind of internally or

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Speaker 6: within your staff to say, yeah, we just can't touch that.

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Speaker 5: Well, you know, I don't know if I ever had

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Speaker 5: that problem, and I don't want to. I'm not going

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Speaker 5: to disparage my own network because I loved working at CNN.

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Speaker 5: I love the folks there. They're the best journalists in

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Speaker 5: the world, I believe. But as I said, I had

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Speaker 5: more editorial freedom than I think anyone on the network,

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Speaker 5: And if I wanted something covered, then I could cover it.

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Speaker 1: If even if I couldn't.

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Speaker 5: Devote an entire program to it, I could devote a

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Speaker 5: segment to it, or just you know, I could just

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Speaker 5: come on the and say this is important to me,

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Speaker 5: and you know, and I would just say it in

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Speaker 5: a monologue and then be done.

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Speaker 1: With it.

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Speaker 5: But when you work for company A, you do things

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Speaker 5: the way Company A does it. If you work for

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Speaker 5: company B, you do things away company B does it.

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Speaker 5: And I think that we develop regardless of what network

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Speaker 5: we're in. We develop sort of, you know, we have

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Speaker 5: this myopic lens, we have blinders that we do things

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Speaker 5: the way that it is done. And I find that

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Speaker 5: since I've left that my media appetite has no media

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Speaker 5: diet has you know, changed, And so I feel like

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Speaker 5: I feel like I'm much more aware of what's going

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Speaker 5: on in the world because I'm not just focusing on

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Speaker 5: what are the big things in the news that are

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Speaker 5: going to make air on this particular network. And so

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Speaker 5: there were things, Yes, there were things that I would

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Speaker 5: like to cover, but they just didn't bubble up high

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Speaker 5: enough right into the things that we were discussing on

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Speaker 5: the network. And I'm not sure that's necessarily bad. That's

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Speaker 5: just the way that it was done. If you look

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Speaker 5: at Fox Box Has, you know, they have a different

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Speaker 5: editorial plan or edic, then CNN, CNN has a different

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Speaker 5: one than MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS.

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Speaker 1: For the most part, they're the same.

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Speaker 5: When you come out there covering the same stories, but

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Speaker 5: they somehow do it differently because they do it the

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Speaker 5: way that their company does it. So it wasn't really

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Speaker 5: a problem for me. But I understand your question. There

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Speaker 5: are certain things that just probably didn't bubble up.

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Speaker 4: And when we were thinking about this interview, Ryan had

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Speaker 4: an idea to play this clip of Nom Chomsky that

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Speaker 4: is really popular on the left. But this is kind

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Speaker 4: of a perfect segue into it because he talks about

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Speaker 4: the Chomsky theory. You know, whether or not you agree

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Speaker 4: with it. Don It's interesting is that basically a lot

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Speaker 4: of the different cable networks speak in one voice ultimately,

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Speaker 4: because there's almost a class bubble that a lot of journalists,

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Speaker 4: especially at the cable networks, find themselves in. So let's

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Speaker 4: just roll this one minute of Nome Chromsky and then

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Speaker 4: we'll get your reaction done.

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Speaker 1: I'll have to I think I know some of them.

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Speaker 7: Well, I know some of the best and best known

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Speaker 7: investigative reporters in the United States. I won't mention names,

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Speaker 7: but whose attitude or the media is much more cynical

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Speaker 7: than mine. In fact, they regard the media as a sham,

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Speaker 7: and they know and they consciously.

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Speaker 3: Talk about how they try to.

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Speaker 7: Play it like a violin. If they see a little opening,

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Speaker 7: they'll try to squeeze something in that ordinarily wouldn't make

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Speaker 7: it through. And it's perfectly true that the I'm sure

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Speaker 7: you're speaking for the majority of journalists who are trained,

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Speaker 7: have it driven into their heads that this is a

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Speaker 7: crusading profession, adversarial we stand up against power, a very

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Speaker 7: self serving view. On the other hand, in my opinion,

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Speaker 7: I hate to make a value judgment, but the better journalists,

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Speaker 7: and in fact the ones who are often regarded as

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Speaker 7: the best journalists, have quite a different picture, and I

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Speaker 7: think a very realistic one.

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Speaker 1: How can you How can you know that I'm self censory?

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Speaker 7: How can you have self censory? I'm sure you believe

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Speaker 7: everything you're saying, But what I'm saying is you could

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Speaker 7: believe something different.

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Speaker 1: You wouldn't be sitting where you're sitting.

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Speaker 3: I had just seen that clip before. What'd you think

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Speaker 3: I had?

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Speaker 1: I hadn't seen that clip before. Well, listen to me, No,

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Speaker 1: johsk would not want to go up against the right.

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Speaker 1: I think he just basically sort of said what I

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Speaker 1: said in different words.

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Speaker 5: If you see something or you believe something that you know,

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Speaker 5: you find an opening you sort of squeeze it in,

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Speaker 5: which is basically what I was saying, and my previous

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Speaker 5: answer to you that there was something I found.

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Speaker 1: Important, I would find a way to get it in.

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Speaker 5: And obviously, look, I'm no longer, you know, in traditional

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Speaker 5: legacy media. So he says, if you believe something, if

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Speaker 5: you believe differently, you wouldn't be sitting where you're sitting now.

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Speaker 5: So I'm not sitting where I was sitting before. So

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Speaker 5: obviously there was something that I else said I believe.

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Speaker 4: And you know, I have a question on that, actually,

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Speaker 4: because I don't think either of us is interested in

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Speaker 4: getting into any drama with your old network. But I

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Speaker 4: do think the Nikki Haley comment what I found it

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Speaker 4: hilarious frankly, but we don't have to get into it.

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Speaker 4: All I want to say is is that an excuse

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Speaker 4: to purge you? Do you feel like that was Do

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Speaker 4: you think that your former colleagues cared deeply about Nicki

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Speaker 4: Haley's feelings or do you think that was sort of

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Speaker 4: a fig leaf to start purging maybe allies of Jeff Zucker.

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Speaker 4: What's your read on that whole situation, because you, I

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Speaker 4: mean you did I think apologized for it, and everything

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Speaker 4: sort of spiraled from there. It seemed like from the outside.

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Speaker 1: At least, look at my faith.

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Speaker 4: In your crime.

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Speaker 5: I will let your comments stand if you think, I think.

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Speaker 1: That you are a very smart woman, and I will

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Speaker 1: just let it stand.

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Speaker 3: Enterprime, no doubt, right of course.

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Speaker 6: So one of the criticisms I had of CNN over

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Speaker 6: over the years is around its coverage of the of

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Speaker 6: the kind of left wing of the Democratic Party, and

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Speaker 6: in particular missing the kind of twenty six the energy

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Speaker 6: behind the twenty sixteen Bernie Sanders campaign, and then missing

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Speaker 6: miss again the second time around. Like you know, twenty twenty,

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Speaker 6: Bernie Centers almost seized the nomination and it seemed to

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Speaker 6: catch the media flat foot at both times. I'm curious

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Speaker 6: what your editorial meetings were like throughout twenty sixteen and

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Speaker 6: twenty twenty or was there just so much Trump that

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Speaker 6: there just wasn't kind of the oxygen for the Democratic primaries.

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Speaker 1: Well, I want to make sure I understand what you're saying, Brian.

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Speaker 5: What are you asking me that that you think that

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Speaker 5: Bernie Sanders wasn't given his do in in traditional media?

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Speaker 1: Is that what you're saying is.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, and let me yeah, and let me and

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Speaker 6: let me tell you a little story about that real

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Speaker 6: quick like. So in February of twenty twenty, you remember

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Speaker 6: Rebecca Cutler, the old head of CNN talent, She reached

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Speaker 6: out to or somehow we got connected when I'm back

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Speaker 6: still at the Intercept, I was the Intercept at the time,

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Speaker 6: and she said, look, we have really missed the boat

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Speaker 6: on covering the left wing of the Democratic Party, like

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Speaker 6: we need people who have covered that before and who

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Speaker 6: understand this rising progressive energy. And so CNN brought me

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Speaker 6: in and said, look, we need to get you on

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Speaker 6: some of these programs because we need somebody, you know,

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Speaker 6: who can speak to this obviously now rising energy within

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Speaker 6: the Democratic Party. And then that that happened a couple times,

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Speaker 6: and then Bernie lost the South Carolina primary and got

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Speaker 6: wiped out on Super Tuesday, and they said, actually, nevermind,

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Speaker 6: We're good. We don't need to worry about this kind

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Speaker 6: of progressive wing. Maybe maybe in four years if it

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Speaker 6: if it bubbles back up. But there was a there

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Speaker 6: was a fear inside CNN reflected through Rebecca's outreach that

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Speaker 6: they had missed something fundamental about the country that was

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Speaker 6: represented by the rise of Bernie Sanders.

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Speaker 5: I don't know what conversation you had with Rebecca, who

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Speaker 5: I know, and so I won't get into that, but

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Speaker 5: I think if there was any outreach for you to

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Speaker 5: cover something that was happening in the news of the

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Speaker 5: zeitgeist politically, I think that Rebecca should be commended for

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Speaker 5: recognizing that. The second part is that I've never heard anyone,

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Speaker 5: anybody say that CNN should be more left, So you know, hey,

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Speaker 5: there's a first time for everything. I didn't necessarily think

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Speaker 5: CNN was left. I thought that CNN was about facts.

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Speaker 5: I think CNN is the best journalist in the world.

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Speaker 5: But I also think you asked me what my editorial

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Speaker 5: meetings were like. I mean, no one was trying to

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Speaker 5: push Bernie Sanders, and at least in my editorial meetings,

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Speaker 5: and I would venture to speak for the network. Now, well,

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Speaker 5: I'll speak for myself. I don't think that anyone was

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Speaker 5: trying to push Bernie Sanders out. I think that Bernie

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Speaker 5: Sanders may have had this sort of outsized influence with

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Speaker 5: a certain segment of the Democratic Party. But all polls

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Speaker 5: in twenty sixteen pointed to Hillary Clinton. All polls in

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty, and public sentiment pointed to Joe Biden. And

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Speaker 5: so what was shocking, I think to myself, was the

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Speaker 5: the reaction from Democrats to the nomination of Hillary Clinton

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Speaker 5: instead of Bernie Sanders in sixteen, especially in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 5: You know, I couldn't get to gauge it because I

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Speaker 5: didn't get to go to the conventions. I think that

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Speaker 5: was around, you know, because of COVID. But here's a

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Speaker 5: shocking thing. We so networks have editorial calls or meetings

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Speaker 5: with campaigns right to figure out how you're going to

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Speaker 5: cover the campaigns. When I in my experience meeting having

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Speaker 5: those editorial calls and meetings with the Trump folks, they

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Speaker 5: knew every single thing that was happening in the meeting,

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Speaker 5: every single thing that Don Lemon had ever said about

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Speaker 5: Donald Trump.

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Speaker 1: His folks knew about it.

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Speaker 5: They knew where to place him, they knew who they

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Speaker 5: wanted him to talk to, They knew who they want

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Speaker 5: him to call into or do in person interviews. By contrast,

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Speaker 5: the Clinton campaign was so above it that you know, hey,

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Speaker 5: you know, they had no idea what I was saying

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Speaker 5: about Hillary Clinton or whatever they were. You know, she

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Speaker 5: didn't not have as much media outreach. She got to

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Speaker 5: pick and choose where she went and rather than just

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Speaker 5: doing what Donald Trump did. So listen, I think that

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Speaker 5: the Hillary but yet and still the public wanted Hillary Clinton.

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Speaker 1: They didn't want Bernie Sanders.

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Speaker 5: So I say that to say, when after all of

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Speaker 5: you know, Republicans did not love Donald Trump, they held

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Speaker 5: their nose and they voted for him. All of the

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Speaker 5: never Trumper was all of the people, you know, from

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Speaker 5: Ted Cruz on down. When he became the nominee, everyone

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Speaker 5: got behind him.

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Speaker 1: When we were at the convention, it was Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't jeb it wasn't you know, Cruise, it wasn't Ruby,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't any of those people. By the time we

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Speaker 1: got to the Democratic Convention and Hillary.

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Speaker 5: Clinton was a nominee, people were yelling Bernie, Bernie, and

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Speaker 5: we were like, what the hell is going on? So

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Speaker 5: I think that Bernie Sanders, that that wing of the

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Speaker 5: Democratic Party actually did it as much, if not more

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Speaker 5: damage to Hillary Clinton than Donald Trump.

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Speaker 6: So look, but I think that's I think that's an

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Speaker 6: interesting I think any question to be asking is to

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Speaker 6: say what.

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Speaker 1: I think Bernie is a fantastic politician.

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Speaker 5: But I do think that there is a lesson in

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Speaker 5: it for Democrats that you have to get behind the

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Speaker 5: person who is the actual nominee and you cannot have

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Speaker 5: sour grapes of the person who did not become the nominee.

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Speaker 1: That's how the process worked.

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Speaker 5: So I know that people are upset and they're upset

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Speaker 5: about the progressive wing and they don't think it gets

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Speaker 5: covered enough. But this is where we are. The nominee

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Speaker 5: of the person is Joe Biden. The nominee of the

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Speaker 5: person then was Hillary Clinton. I think the Bernie Sanders

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Speaker 5: progressive wing of the party should have gotten behind should

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Speaker 5: have gotten behind them, And that's the reason, one of

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Speaker 5: the reasons, the main reasons that we're in the predicament

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Speaker 5: that we are now and that.

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Speaker 1: We had a Trump presidency.

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Speaker 6: But I guess the point would be if CNN anchors

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Speaker 6: are at the twenty sixteen convention saying, what the hell

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Speaker 6: is going on? That's kind of reflective of the time

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Speaker 6: that I was making that you guys should have seen

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Speaker 6: this coming and should have own what was going on,

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Speaker 6: where this we knew it was, where this anger coming from.

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Speaker 5: Just because we're realistic about who the nominee is doesn't

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Speaker 5: mean that we didn't see that, didn't see it coming.

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Speaker 5: Bernie Sanders was not going to win. Bernie Sanders was

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Speaker 5: not going to be the nominee. So I turned to

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Speaker 5: my producer and said that I'm not saying this on

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Speaker 5: the air, but I was.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I did say it on the air.

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Speaker 5: I was surprised because Republicans fall in line. Democrats fight

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Speaker 5: each other, Democrats usually wet the bed. I'm sorry for

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Speaker 5: Bernie Sanders was not the nominee, nor was he ever

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Speaker 5: going to become the nominee. And I know that people

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Speaker 5: are upset by it, but that's the truth. It's the

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Speaker 5: same thing for Republicans. Nikki Haley is not the nominee.

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Speaker 5: She's not going to become the nominee. Donald Trump is

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Speaker 5: a nominee, regardless if you like it or not. The

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Speaker 5: guys in court and guess what, Republicans are going to

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Speaker 5: fall in line, and if Donald becomes the president again,

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Speaker 5: it'll be because Republicans fell in line.

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Speaker 4: One of the things I think I was just one

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Speaker 4: of the things I think it's cool about. Like Ryan

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Speaker 4: and I have both been critical of you. You've probably

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Speaker 4: been critical of independent media. This is the first time

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Speaker 4: we've ever talked in the past. But one thing that

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Speaker 4: I considered a low point, honestly in media coverage of

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump was the segment with you and Rick Wilson

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Speaker 4: talking about credulist Boomer Rubes. And I wonder, honestly if

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Speaker 4: there's an argument that sort of seeing other Americans through

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Speaker 4: that lens, and maybe now in independent media it's easier

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Speaker 4: not to but seeing other people through that lens of

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Speaker 4: you know, credulous Boomer Rubes laughing.

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Speaker 5: At Rick Wilson about that wasn't my That was not

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Speaker 5: my assessment of that. I was laughing at the Ukraine

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Speaker 5: on a map thing.

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Speaker 1: That was my point.

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Speaker 5: I did not make any comments about Americans. So you'll

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Speaker 5: have to talk to Rick Wilson about that.

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Speaker 6: And I get but I guess there's an interesting mirror

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Speaker 6: going on where, you know, the Trump the Trump supporters

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Speaker 6: see that clip and they felsted in that, yeah, and

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Speaker 6: they feel.

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Speaker 3: Like they're not being represented. Bernie.

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Speaker 6: People feel like, you know, they're not being represented on CNN.

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Speaker 6: And and to the point about the polling that you mentioned,

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Speaker 6: just one point on Joe Biden's pulling. Joe Biden was

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Speaker 6: not polling ahead. You had said that Joe Biden was

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Speaker 6: pulling ahead. Joe Biden was in the toilet the entire time.

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Speaker 6: He finished fourth in Iowa, fifth in New Hampshire, got

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Speaker 6: annihilated in the data.

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Speaker 1: He got to the convention.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and then he won after one hundred and seventy

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Speaker 6: five million dollars in free media between Nevada and South Carolina.

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Speaker 6: And then he wins Super twos and he won the nomination,

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Speaker 6: no doubt about it. But he wasn't pulling ahead before.

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Speaker 4: That is the sort of establishment media doing a good

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Speaker 4: enough job of connecting with the country in the way

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Speaker 4: that after twenty sixteen, newsrooms reckoned both with the sort

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Speaker 4: of Bernie Sanders phenomenon he won my homestate of Wisconsin,

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Speaker 4: for example, and the Trump phenomenon, and they said, for example,

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Speaker 4: Dean Baquet at the New York Times said, we don't

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Speaker 4: get religion. Has that gotten any better? Has it gotten worse?

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Speaker 4: Is the media in a sort of insulated You said,

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Speaker 4: your studios on Park Avenue the sort of a good

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Speaker 4: symbol right there, Like do people in the media know

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Speaker 4: people love people respect people.

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Speaker 5: Students on Park Avenue doesn't have to do with anything

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Speaker 5: I mean your studios in Washington, d C. Park Avenue

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Speaker 5: is part of America.

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Speaker 4: Well, no, I mean I don't disagree with that. Stephanie

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Speaker 4: Rule said the same thing, actually, but I am asking

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Speaker 4: you basically, we make an effort to talk to people

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Speaker 4: in different parts of the country. That's why I'm asking

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Speaker 4: does the media do a good, good enough job on

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Speaker 4: a class basis, not even a I think it.

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Speaker 5: Does a great job of talking to people from you know,

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Speaker 5: from all parts of the country. I mean when I

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Speaker 5: turn on Look, I'm not in legacy media anymore. When

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Speaker 5: I turn on legacy media, I see the left wing

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Speaker 5: of the Democratic Party overrepresented. I see the right wing

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Speaker 5: of the Republican Party overrepresented. There's always there's always panels

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Speaker 5: about what do maga people think nobody understands those people

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Speaker 5: and that they're overrepresented in media. The same thing happened

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Speaker 5: with the Bernie Sanders thing. The Sanders the left wing

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Speaker 5: of the party, it's overrepresented. Bernie Sanders getting is not

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Speaker 5: getting a fair shake. I think that it's over representation.

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Speaker 5: I just think, like listen, time to move on. Bernie

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Speaker 5: Sanders was not the nominee in twenty sixteen. We can

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Speaker 5: go back and litigate it. Now we've got a lot

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Speaker 5: of you know, unearned media or earned media.

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Speaker 1: In twenty sixteen, it's over. We can't go back and

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Speaker 1: litigate that. The same thing with twenty twenty. That's over.

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Speaker 5: We can't go back and litigated. What we can do

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Speaker 5: is try to be better moving forward. So I do feel, honestly,

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Speaker 5: now that I'm in independent media, I do think that

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Speaker 5: the fringes of the parties, both parties are over represented

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Speaker 5: in the coverage in independent media and in legacy media

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Speaker 5: as well.

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Speaker 6: Why do you think legacy media is fading and independent

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Speaker 6: media is rising your what's your theory of that case?

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't think it's because they're so terrible the

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Speaker 1: way that they are covering the news.

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Speaker 5: I think they do a really good job of covering

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Speaker 5: the news because they have.

440
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,960
Speaker 1: A ton of resources. I just think it is the way.

441
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,919
Speaker 5: I think it's the advertising around it, because media is

442
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,440
Speaker 5: so fractured now there are other places for advertisers to

443
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,200
Speaker 5: put their money and so and there are just other

444
00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,920
Speaker 5: it's just other forms of media. Now you have way

445
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:01,520
Speaker 5: more channels. He used to just be like, you know,

446
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:05,720
Speaker 5: you had three ABC, CBS and NBC and then cable

447
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:07,600
Speaker 5: came along, and then all of a sudden, the Internet

448
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,520
Speaker 5: came along, and then social media came along.

449
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 1: I just think it's fractured.

450
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 5: So I'm not saying I don't believe that it's some

451
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:17,040
Speaker 5: indication that traditional media is bad and therefore people aren't

452
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,280
Speaker 5: tuning in. I just think there are more places to

453
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,720
Speaker 5: tune in now and so the audience is shrinking.

454
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,560
Speaker 4: Also curious if you've talked to Elon Musk since he

455
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 4: canceled the partnership, have you heard anything from him at all?

456
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,440
Speaker 1: You know, I have a text message from him right now. No.

457
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 4: Well, on that note, actually, Elon Ryan has sent some

458
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 4: reporting on this Elon's censorship in different parts of the

459
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,120
Speaker 4: world with X What do you think is the right

460
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 4: balance when it comes to content moderations obviously one of

461
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 4: the biggest challenges facing lawmakers, facing businesses, executives in Silicon Valley.

462
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 4: You now have a show that is on some of

463
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:57,359
Speaker 4: these streaming platforms. How do you think about, you know,

464
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 4: what that sort of balance between and just allowing people

465
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 4: to speak and get everything out there. Elon's doing that

466
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:07,640
Speaker 4: sort of in the States now, not necessarily in other

467
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,719
Speaker 4: parts of the world. But what do you make of

468
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 4: that done.

469
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what your question is. If you can

470
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 1: just tell me what I guess.

471
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 6: Put it this way, like one of the disputes that

472
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 6: you had with Musk was the definition of censorship versus moderation.

473
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:24,960
Speaker 6: You would say there ought to be there ought to

474
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,919
Speaker 6: be moderation. He was saying anything beyond taking down, you know,

475
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 6: illegal posts is censorship.

476
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,640
Speaker 3: So where where would you draw the line.

477
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 6: Let's say all of a sudden, Saudi Arabia comes to

478
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 6: you and says, here's forty five billion dollars, we actually

479
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 6: want you to own Twitter rather than elon Musk. How

480
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 6: would you go about I think platforms figuring out the difference.

481
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,919
Speaker 5: I think platforms that have moderation obviously do better than

482
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 5: platforms that don't. If you look at what's happening with

483
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 5: Twitter now, then you one would understand that if you

484
00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 5: look at a platforms that moderate, even the independent media

485
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 5: who's on YouTube has moderation, right, even TikTok that I

486
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,639
Speaker 5: know people are upset because it's China, China owns it,

487
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 5: but there's moderation there. There's moderation on Facebook, there's moderation

488
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 5: on Instagram. And I think that I would draw the

489
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 5: line at hate speech. I would draw the line at

490
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 5: anything that is that puts people in danger.

491
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 1: And I would draw the line at where.

492
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 5: When people who go into synagogues or churches or supermarkets

493
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 5: say that they admittedly became radicalized in part because of

494
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 5: social media. I think you need to look at that

495
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 5: and you need to take it seriously. So I would

496
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 5: draw the line at that. And if you're going to

497
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 5: if you want to say it's okay, look at this

498
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 5: is it's Elon Musk's that part.

499
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 1: This is bat and ball. He can do it whatever

500
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 1: he wants to do with it.

501
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 5: But I do think that there you have some degree

502
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 5: of responsibility to keep people safe, and you have it

503
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:06,360
Speaker 5: should be responsible enough that you listen to those who

504
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 5: disagree with you, and that you have different voices on

505
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 5: your platform. Every organization has rules that must be followed,

506
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 5: and if you're going to be on that platform, then

507
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 5: you need to follow the rules.

508
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 1: He even has content rules on his.

509
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:27,120
Speaker 5: Platform, and the content rules on his platform should be followed.

510
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: And if they're not, then why are they there?

511
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,239
Speaker 5: So I think you would draw the line really at

512
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 5: hate speech, in anything that puts people people's lives in danger.

513
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 1: And a lot of what's on social media.

514
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 4: Does that the constitution protects a decent amount of hate speech,

515
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 4: if not most hate speech. So is it Do you

516
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 4: think it's for a business reason, because I actually think

517
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 4: that's an interesting argument that for a business reason these

518
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 4: platforms should be engaged in content moderation because their consumers

519
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 4: feel unsafe, feel miserable when they're on these platforms that

520
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 4: are with hate speech. Or is it just sort of ideologically,

521
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 4: maybe it's a combination. We should keep people from hate speech,

522
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 4: people should be protected from hate speech.

523
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: Whether I think that.

524
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 5: I don't think content should be you know, pushed to

525
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 5: young girls that make them feel less than I don't

526
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 5: think that content should be pushed to young men that

527
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 5: makes them feel that they, you know, can go and

528
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 5: shoot up supermarkets and kill people, kill Jews, kill blacks,

529
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 5: kill gay people. So I think for human reasons that

530
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,199
Speaker 5: there needs to be moderation. I think for common sense

531
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 5: there needs to be moderation. That whole idea that you know,

532
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 5: free speeches is a you know, wild wild west.

533
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: I think that's BS.

534
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 5: I don't think that's what the our founders meant when

535
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 5: they said freedom of speech. You're free You're free to

536
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 5: say whatever you want, but you must suffer the consequences.

537
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 4: We had Stemm Rehersch on this show last year talking

538
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 4: about his reporting that implicated the CIA and blowing up

539
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 4: nord Stream pipeline. Is that is that beyond the bounds

540
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 4: of disinformation from your perspective, because there are some people

541
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 4: that would say this is, you know, Russian propaganda, this

542
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 4: is disinformation? Is that something? How do you sort of

543
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 4: beyond how?

544
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 5: I think it has to be true if it's going

545
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 5: to be on your platform, And again, if you people

546
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 5: can create the rules of whatever they want to on

547
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 5: their platform, your organization, whatever organization you.

548
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 1: Belong to, you have rules. I have my own rules.

549
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,919
Speaker 5: CNN has rules, MSNBC has rules, Fox has rules.

550
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 1: X Corporation has rules.

551
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:25,959
Speaker 5: Everyone has rules that their employees are people who are

552
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,919
Speaker 5: going to take part in whatever platform that they have

553
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 5: or if you're going to work there, they have rules,

554
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 5: and I think you need to follow those rules. And

555
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 5: I think that that company gets to set what those

556
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 5: rules are. But I think at the very least, especially

557
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 5: when it comes to journalism and it comes to the

558
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 5: freedom of the press.

559
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,400
Speaker 1: That before you put it out there, you need to figure.

560
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 5: Out whether it's true or not. You just can't throw

561
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 5: it out there and expect it to be okay. I

562
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:54,640
Speaker 5: don't believe that, and I think most sane people would

563
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 5: agree with that.

564
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 6: Let me ask you a totally unrelated question. You know,

565
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 6: just my strength lies in kind of writing and reporting,

566
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 6: kind of behind a desk, typing away the instant wretch.

567
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 6: The whole TV presenting thing is not like, it's not

568
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 6: the thing I'm really good at. You're quite good at

569
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 6: the whole TV thing. Like even people who would disagree

570
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 6: with whatever you're saying, like as a presenter, you're quite

571
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 6: skilled at it. So what what tips do you have

572
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 6: for people like me and Emily who this isn't really

573
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 6: our thing, but we find ourselves in front of this

574
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 6: camera anyway.

575
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 5: Look, my tip is that you should just be yourself,

576
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,919
Speaker 5: and you know, if I can just be honest. You

577
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 5: guys are saying, you know, where's the teleprompter before? Like

578
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 5: I would say, challenge yourself. You don't need a teleprompter.

579
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,640
Speaker 5: I just think that you should be Ryan and Emily and.

580
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 3: I also we did we did skip the teleprompter.

581
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 4: Actually we did it live.

582
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: Ryan and Emily.

583
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 5: But I also think listen I'm just going to tell

584
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 5: you there were there were many things, and there are

585
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 5: many things in the media that I disagree with, But

586
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 5: I'm also tethered to reality, and so i may want

587
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 5: the outcome to be something different.

588
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: I e.

589
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 5: Bernie Sanders, but it is. As my mom says to

590
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,199
Speaker 5: me all the time, it is what it is. And

591
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 5: so when it is what it is, you know, you

592
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 5: make your case, you argue it or whatever.

593
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: And then you move on.

594
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 5: And so I think that many times, especially in independent media,

595
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 5: I find people getting stuck in arguments and old arguments

596
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 5: and things that are no longer in the zeitgeist and

597
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 5: are no longer important anymore, and I think it's important

598
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 5: for so my advice to you would be to.

599
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 1: Get with the program. To go out and talk.

600
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 5: To those people who are on college campuses, to see

601
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 5: what you know, why they're on, you know, either for

602
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 5: or against protests, no matter how you feel about it.

603
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: To talk to the politicians.

604
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 5: I would encourage you to talk to more people who

605
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 5: are in traditional media, and if you can change their

606
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 5: minds about certain things, I would say do it.

607
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: I would say go on those shows.

608
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 5: But I would say the most important thing is to

609
00:28:55,640 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 5: have an open mind about everything about guests who come

610
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 5: on your program, about what you're talking about, what you're

611
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 5: trying to convey to the audience. It's just to have

612
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 5: an open mind and to be curious, be less judgmental

613
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 5: and more curious.

614
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:13,479
Speaker 3: I think that's well.

615
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 6: I was hoping for tips more about how to deal

616
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 6: with all these cameras in the studio setting. And you

617
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 6: should see the time transitions, you know, of this stuff.

618
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 5: I tell you this, Okay, Ryan, I'm wearing a light

619
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 5: blue shirt. Right, Dark shirts don't really work that well.

620
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 3: That's the kind of stuff I need.

621
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 5: You need a nice white crisp shirt always looks good

622
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 5: with a with a you know, with a nice tie.

623
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: Right.

624
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 5: Blue suits black suits on television are a little drab

625
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 5: and stay a little now we're talking, so you need,

626
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 5: like do a blue suit, or like me, you know,

627
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 5: do something that's on the blue or that gives a

628
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 5: little pop of color.

629
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: Don't be afraid. Don't think it's good. People think that

630
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: you're you know, you know what I'm saying.

631
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 5: Wear something that's a little bit out that maybe your

632
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 5: manhood is being questioned because you.

633
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,239
Speaker 3: Wear something uncomfortable with the man.

634
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 5: So I'll go with that and also a nice haircut.

635
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 5: Haircuts everything in your guy, make sure you keep it

636
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 5: neat and clean.

637
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 4: He gets accused of having it is real.

638
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 5: And I am never going to criticize what a woman

639
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 5: wears because you guys get enough of that. So I

640
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 5: like to I like to do that to the guys

641
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 5: because they don't know how you ladies live.

642
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: You got to go to hair and make up. You can't.

643
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 5: We could wear I could wear Ryan, you can wear

644
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 5: that suit every.

645
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: Day and no one would ever question.

646
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,719
Speaker 5: In fact, every day she would get shipped from everybody

647
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 5: wearing she doesn't dress up, She doesn't what's going what

648
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 5: is she doing with her hair?

649
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: Guys don't get that.

650
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 3: You can just be you know, well, I'm the exception.

651
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 4: But yeah, you're totally right. I know we're running to

652
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 4: the end here, But don I have one question about something?

653
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 4: Actually does Tucker Carlson said recently that I don't know

654
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 4: if you guys overlapped at CNN, but he said recently

655
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 4: that social media really changed the way people on cable

656
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 4: news had conversations. That before social media, you sort of

657
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 4: were able to speak more freely because you weren't constantly

658
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 4: thinking about how things were going to get clipped on

659
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 4: Twitter now X or at the time, Facebook, and it

660
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 4: just kind of I mean, I know that you're putting

661
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 4: your show actually on x on all of the streaming

662
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 4: platforms now, So I think people have journalists have adapted.

663
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 4: But I'm curious what you think of that. Do you

664
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 4: feel like there was an era in media where people

665
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 4: actually could have more open conversations without the fear of

666
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 4: sort of getting written up, whether it's you know, conservative media,

667
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 4: liberal media, the blogs, and it was just more it

668
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 4: was easier to talk to people.

669
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: I don't think it's just media. I think it's everywhere.

670
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 5: I think, you know, even you know, in Washington. I

671
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 5: think our leaders are afraid of being criticized.

672
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 1: It used to be.

673
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 5: Now people don't care anymore because it doesn't have the

674
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 5: outsized influence that it once had. With Twitter, people would

675
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 5: concerned about, oh my gosh, people on Twitter are gonna

676
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 5: kill me. I'm gonna be trending or whatever people used

677
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 5: to worry about. I don't think they worry about that anymore.

678
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 5: But I think that happens everywhere. I think that happens

679
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 5: in Hollywood. I think that happens on television for sitcoms,

680
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 5: I think that happens for comedians, you know.

681
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 1: If you if you want proof of that, I think,

682
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: you know.

683
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 5: Go back and look at the episode of SNL with

684
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 5: Chevy Chase and Richard Pryor talking about me in word

685
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 5: right where they actually use the word.

686
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: You can't do that on television anymore. I wasn't.

687
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 5: But I do think people were, you know, journalists are

688
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 5: afraid of you know, being you know, getting criticized on Twitter.

689
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 5: I think maybe they are probably executives who were afraid

690
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 5: of criticism on social media because they're afraid of advertisers.

691
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: I think that does happen. So yeah, I think it.

692
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 5: Happens across all media and through throughout all industries that

693
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 5: people are concerned about, you know, their presence on social media.

694
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 5: I don't think that that's any secret, nor is it,

695
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 5: you know, I don't think it's any big revelation.

696
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm curious when when you're out in the world

697
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 6: and engaging with the public, what are the kinds of

698
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 6: questions that you often get, Like when people recognize you,

699
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 6: they come to you, they must say something selfish?

700
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: Can I get a selfie? You see?

701
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 5: Look, let me tell you I was in cable news

702
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 5: so guess what people say to me when they first

703
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 5: see me.

704
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 3: I see you in the airport all the time.

705
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: Oh no, not at all. My mom loves you, loves you.

706
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: Can I get a picture and send it to.

707
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 5: You, So that you got the idea of the age

708
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 5: range of the people who are watching. Now that I'm

709
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 5: in independent media, people say, you know, people talk to

710
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 5: me about what I'm doing now because young people are

711
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 5: actually tuned into social media, They're tuned into YouTube there,

712
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 5: some of them are on X now, not as many

713
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 5: as before, but I think that people actually get recognized

714
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 5: more now recently, in recent years than when I was

715
00:33:55,720 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 5: on CNN before, you know, after the pandemic, after Donald Trump,

716
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 5: after George Floyd. There was a time when I could

717
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 5: not walk down the street without people, and then that

718
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 5: sort of faded because you.

719
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:09,479
Speaker 1: Know, that just sort of goes away.

720
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 5: You're not in people's living when people were at home

721
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 5: during the pandemic, so that all they were doing was

722
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 5: watching CNN and I was on all the time. And

723
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 5: so now just getting back to normal times, I think

724
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 5: people recognize me now more from social and social media

725
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 5: and digital streaming media than they do from when I

726
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 5: was in traditional and cable.

727
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's super interesting, especially the younger audience part of that.

728
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 5: And actually one question I had for you was about that,

729
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 5: about they just I don't know, they just asked me,

730
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 5: what are you doing now?

731
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,720
Speaker 1: I miss you and see it? Where can I see you? Yeah?

732
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 6: You lived through a really seismic change when it comes

733
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 6: to not just CNN but kind of the media in general.

734
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 6: And it was fascinating watching it from my perspective because

735
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 6: I was always part of this kind of left wing

736
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 6: of observers who was saying mainstream media needs to drop

737
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 6: this like fake objectivity, this this view from nowhere, this

738
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 6: view from God, and I acknowledge that they have biases

739
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 6: and speak from that perspective and earn trust that way.

740
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 6: That was a very commonly held view, you know, for

741
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 6: many years on the left, and then CNN and ms

742
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 6: put aside, MSNBC. CNN really did that during the Trump administration,

743
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 6: and I remember agreeing with a lot of what CNN

744
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 6: was saying, disagreeing with the decent amount of it, particularly

745
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 6: all the endless focus on Russia. But I also remember thinking, WHOA,

746
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 6: that's a little bit much. You guys are starting to

747
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 6: sound like kind of a democratic mouthpiece, and I also

748
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,919
Speaker 6: recognize like they're doing kind of what I asked them

749
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,879
Speaker 6: to do for years, but now that they're doing it,

750
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 6: not so sure I like it. And I'm curious what

751
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 6: it was like for you to be involved in that,

752
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 6: Ryan Well, I am. I am.

753
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Listen, I don't like that. I don't believe

754
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: in that whole.

755
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 5: I don't believe in the premise of Listen, I'm not

756
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,320
Speaker 5: trying to be confrontational. I don't agree with the premise

757
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 5: of what you're saying when people put it in that context,

758
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 5: because listen.

759
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: We all we all, we all view life.

760
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 5: Through a certain lens, whether we're a journalists or not,

761
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 5: whether you're a woman, a man, black, white, Jewish, Palacini, whatever,

762
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 5: we all viewed the world through our own lenses.

763
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 1: And it is okay to.

764
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 5: Come to be a journalist and to have a point

765
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:21,439
Speaker 5: of view.

766
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 1: That's okay. It is actually okay to be a journalist

767
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,280
Speaker 1: and have an opinion. There's opinion journalism.

768
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 5: So I don't believe in that that bs about. You know,

769
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 5: journalists just have to sit there and go what do

770
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 5: you think?

771
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: What do you think?

772
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,760
Speaker 5: Okay, Fine, that's not how that's not how it works.

773
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,760
Speaker 5: I think that, you know, I said you were engaged.

774
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 5: I think that when that was the zenith I believe

775
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:47,240
Speaker 5: of CNN when during that time, and it may have looked,

776
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,720
Speaker 5: I think that that we had moved to the left

777
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 5: or that you know, we were somehow becoming an arm

778
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 5: of the Democratic Party. That was only because of the

779
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 5: Republican side and mostly Donald Trump and the MAGA wing

780
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 5: of the Republican Party.

781
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 1: The facts were not on their side.

782
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 5: So by the simple fact of pointing out that someone

783
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 5: is lying, that you're getting misinformation, it may think it

784
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 5: may make people think that, oh my god, you must

785
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 5: be on the Democrat side.

786
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 1: No, you're on the side of truth.

787
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,280
Speaker 4: No, we have to wrap. But that the Russia coverage

788
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:21,359
Speaker 4: was not great.

789
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 5: The Russia coverage was not great from who, from anyone?

790
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 1: The Russia coverage wasn't great from anybody.

791
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 4: A man from corporate media. Yeah, I mean just the

792
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,879
Speaker 4: question about fact Donald Trump didn't have facts on his side.

793
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: I think that the Russia coverage on CNN was good.

794
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,479
Speaker 1: I think the Russia coverage in the media was good.

795
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 5: I don't think that it was bad. You may disagree

796
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 5: with it, that's you're a bias. But I actually think

797
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 5: the coverage was good, and I think that people are

798
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 5: smart enough to discern what's true and what's not, what's

799
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 5: real and what's not, and so I don't think that

800
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 5: the coverage was that bad. I don't fall into that category.

801
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 5: And I think people were Look, I think people sort

802
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 5: of romanticize the time that we were in, like people romanticize,

803
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 5: you know, COVID and the protocols that were in place,

804
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 5: and this was.

805
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 1: Bad and that was bad.

806
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 5: They don't remember the time that we're in that we

807
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 5: were in, and so, you know, I think that the

808
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 5: media did the best job that they could at the time.

809
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 1: I don't think that it was terrible.

810
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 5: We can always look back, you know, from being an

811
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 5: armchair quarterback Monday morning quarterback and saying, oh, you should

812
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 5: have done this.

813
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: Should it would have? Could have? We didn't.

814
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 5: And again my advice, accept things the way that they are,

815
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 5: learn your lesson and move on.

816
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 4: Yeah. I was part I was personally wrong on like

817
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 4: some of my early Russia coverage.

818
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 1: Was personally wrong on that. That's okay, you said it

819
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:32,240
Speaker 1: was wrong.

820
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 5: That's what happens, and people will say I was wrong.

821
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 5: I think you know where I was. If we made

822
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 5: a mistake and we got something wrong, we would say it.

823
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,800
Speaker 5: That's the whole point about having an independent media.

824
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 1: But you also have.

825
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 5: To have to have a media that has rules and

826
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 5: that's accountable. That doesn't happen on social media. There's no accountability.

827
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 5: And I think that, but you know, maga.

828
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: Folks realize that, and so they put out disinformation.

829
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 6: But has has CNN ever said that there actually was

830
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 6: not never proven collude usion between as Trump campaign and

831
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 6: the I don't think that they ever had it.

832
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 4: Washington posted a whole series rebutting its own coverage.

833
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 5: Interestingly enough, beyond CNN, I think that there there are

834
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 5: accounts of collusion, but you have to ask c in it.

835
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 4: Well, Don, you said a couple of minutes ago that

836
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 4: you don't want to be confrontational, but big confrontational is fun.

837
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,280
Speaker 4: And we really appreciate, we really appreciate your willingness.

838
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 3: Actually answer the test question.

839
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you for your tips. We appreciate it.

840
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. It was great talking to you.

841
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, we appreciate it so much. Don is the host

842
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,959
Speaker 4: of the Don Lemon Show. It's streaming everywhere now. Thank

843
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 4: you so much, Don for joining us.

844
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 1: Thank you, Ryan.

845
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 4: We could have kept doing that for three hours. At

846
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 4: some point, it's like I cannot relitigate the extent of

847
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,720
Speaker 4: CNN's Russia collusion coverage, which I could argue for hours

848
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 4: was terrible, Like we just are not on the same

849
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 4: page on that, But I thought it was good to

850
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 4: get some contrast.

851
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, and my view on that one has always been that,

852
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:01,919
Speaker 6: you know, Putin was clear that you know, he hated

853
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 6: Hillary Clinton. But what CNN and others were saying is

854
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 6: that there was active collusion between the Trump campaign and

855
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 6: Putin and there was just never any evidence to support that.

856
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 6: There was that one meeting in Trump Tower that got

857
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 6: played up a ton that sort of so.

858
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 4: CNN botched one of those stories.

859
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 6: Actually I think they did the Alpha Bank anyway. All

860
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 6: that aside, Back when I was at the Hovington Post,

861
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 6: we had MSNBC, CNN, and Fox on all the time.

862
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 6: And I left there in twenty seventeen, and so after

863
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 6: ten years of cable getting blasted at me all day long,

864
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 6: every day, I basically have not watched cable since then

865
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 6: other than what clips get put up on Instagram or

866
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 6: Twitter or whatever else.

867
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 3: And I think my.

868
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 6: Mental health in my life is much better for It's

869
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 6: it's interesting to talk to Don knowing that he's like

870
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 6: a big cable guy, but also not having he's not

871
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 6: actually wasn't actually part of my media diet unless he

872
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 6: got clipped onto Twitter saying something crazy.

873
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 4: And I really meant what I said when I mentioned

874
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 4: that Rick Wilson clip, which we had it pulled up,

875
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 4: but our conversation was going so didn't roll it.

876
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 3: But we can put it in post that Lemon.

877
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 4: Is laughing hysterically alongside Rick Wilson and Waliid, just laughing

878
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 4: uproariously at this very classiest impression of a Trump voter.

879
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 4: And that's why I actually just want to say I

880
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 4: genuinely appreciate that Lemon came on the show. I don't

881
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 4: think he knows who the hell we are, but I

882
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 4: genuinely appreciate. I know he's promoting his show, but we're

883
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 4: not ever going to if people don't aren't willing to

884
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 4: do hard things to promote their shows. Frankly, we're never

885
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,399
Speaker 4: going to have some of these hard conversations. So good

886
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 4: for him for coming on.

887
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, books and new shows are good things because it

888
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 6: forces people to get out and talk to people that

889
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 6: they would not the ones talk to one.

890
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 4: Hundred percent, and that's why we can't tease exactly what

891
00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 4: it is yet. But one of the hottest books of

892
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 4: the last year, last several years. Honestly, we're trying to

893
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 4: set up a debate about.

894
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 3: That hot we're talking about White Royal Rage.

895
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 4: It's oh my gosh. Every bookstore I walk past in

896
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 4: DC has like a stack of the It's been rebutted

897
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 4: in like all of these different publications. It's been promoted

898
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 4: in all these different publications. I'd say it's pretty hot.

899
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's it's a good one. We'll have a good

900
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 6: conversation about that, is it. We're still we're still working

901
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 6: on the scheduling.

902
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 4: Ryan is white enraged, so he's ready to rumble with

903
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 4: that conversation. But I hope everyone enjoyed this first foray

904
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 4: into some long form. I mean we've done very long

905
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 4: interviews before. We did ted cruise for like a.

906
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 3: Half an hour, but cruise back here.

907
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 4: I bet it's come Fridays. That's what we'll be doing,

908
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 4: long form debate, having some of these conversations. Now we can't,

909
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 4: you can't get to everything in a discussion with Don Lemon.

910
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 4: We would It would take us, you know, six hours

911
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 4: probably to do that, but.

912
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:55,359
Speaker 3: I hope some of the world probably doesn't need that.

913
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 4: Also getting Don Lemon to respond to the tchromsky climp

914
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 4: clip that he had never seen beautiful.

915
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 3: I like that beautiful.

916
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,280
Speaker 4: And that's what you get here at counterpoints and breaking points.

917
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 4: So make sure to subscribe to get the version of

918
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 4: the show, the full version of the show early. Other

919
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 4: than that, we'll see you back next Wednesday and next Friday.

920
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 3: There you go, see you then,