WEBVTT - Tim Ferriss: Feeling Stuck Right Now? (Use THIS 10-Minute Exercise to Stop Overthinking and Take Action) 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.199 If you just get off of social media for two weeks, 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:05.360 it will do the same amount of good for a 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:06.960 lot of folks as ten years of therapy. 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:09.360 What advice has made you the most money? 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:13.200 Don't aim to be the best, aim to be the anist. 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:17.680 What's something that the top one percent obsess over? Now? 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:19.080 Most people never even think. 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:22.279 About the absolute sacredness of. 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:29.920 Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. Today's guest is 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:33.839 someone that I've been waiting to reinterview for nine years. 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:36.800 I'm speaking about the one and only Tim Ferris, one 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:40.560 of the most influential thinkers in personal development and performance 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:43.199 of all time. Tim's the best selling author of The 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:46.400 Four Hour Workweek, host of The Tim Ferris Show with 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:49.440 over a billion downloads. If you're someone who wants to 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:52.839 learn how to make better decisions, overcome fear, and design 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:55.360 a life that actually works for you, you won't want 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:58.880 to miss this. Please welcome to On Purpose. Tim Ferris. 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:02.960 Let's dive in. There's so much to extrapolate today with you, 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:05.240 and I wanted to start off by asking you, like, 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:10.400 what's a thought that reappears in your mind often today? 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:13.240 Or what are you fascinated by today? That kind of 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:17.039 steals your attention and gets you excited because you've done 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:19.399 so many things, You've accomplished so many things, You're so 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:23.160 active in so many ways. I wonder what fascinates you now. 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:27.240 I can tell you literally was getting some texts on 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:30.440 the way here from a few people I've been interacting 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:33.559 with a lot. One is Tommy Wood, doctor Tommy Wood, 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:39.600 who's a neuroscientist also a phenomenal athlete. Interesting combination looking 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:42.360 at and we'll probably get into this more deeply, but 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:48.440 different fuel sources for the brain and extending your cognitive runway. 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:51.600 So in life, if you as I, for instance, have 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:55.560 a lot of neurodegenerative disease in your family, whether that's Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:58.400 or otherwise, what can you do now? Assuming a lot 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:02.120 of these conditions take decades to fully develop, how can 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:07.120 you intervene early. So that's a question that's occupying my mind. 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:13.880 And have found I think some very very compelling options 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:16.160 that are not new to me. But if you go 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:18.120 through the scientific literature and you talk to people on 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:20.720 the front lines, you do find some interesting options. So 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:24.280 we can talk about those. I would say bioelectric medicine, 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:28.200 which ties into this in other words, microchips and electricity 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:31.160 over pills. A lot of medications have off target effects. 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:33.600 So you have a problem, or you want to prevent 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:37.160 a problem, you take a drug. Very often it is 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:40.680 not as specific as we would like. There are side effects. 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:45.480 There's a burgeoning field of bioelectric medicine that can be 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:48.760 applied to a million different ways. We probably should talk 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:50.720 about it, but I'll give you an example. Here's a 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:56.040 crazy example. There's a technology called TMS transcranial magnetic stimulation 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:59.320 that has existed for decades and it's basically using a 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:02.799 magnetic f field to affect brain activity. So they put 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:04.560 a paddle close to your head. There are different ways 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:06.639 to do it, might be a cap with a few 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:09.960 other things, and you can either excite or inhibit different 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:12.640 parts of the brain. Slightly more complicated, but let's just 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:15.880 assume that's the case. And a scientist Daan Nolan Williams 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:18.840 out of Stanford along with others, developed something called the 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:22.840 Saint protocol, which is an accelerated version. So instead of 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:25.640 taking let's just say TMS treatments that you would do 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:28.200 once or twice or three times a week over five months, 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:30.640 they can press it all into one week, five days, 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:35.960 and you're getting zapped ten times a day on the hour, 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:38.760 every hour each of those five days. And what they 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:43.080 end up seeing in many instances, and there's good published, 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:47.760 pure reviewed studies, people can look at seventy percent remission 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:51.760 of treatments is in depression that is durable. You start 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:55.720 to see impacts on things like OCD generalized anxiety disorder. 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:59.000 But one thing that I experimented with recently, this is 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:03.320 maybe four months ago, because I have diagnosed pretty severo CD, 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:05.600 which I think can be a superpower but can also 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:09.440 be a super handicap. Also, just look at my family, 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:12.240 who knows how much of it is nature versus nurture, 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:15.560 but generalized anxiety disorder pretty high. And that can be 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:18.359 a helpful monkey on the back for getting a lot done. 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:21.040 But there's a hell of a lot of collateral damage. 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:24.440 So I wanted to see if I could dial back 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:27.120 both of those. Would I lose my edge or would 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:30.800 I actually improve my edge? I just wouldn't be holding 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:35.600 onto the blade of the knife, right. And I went 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:38.159 through this experimental protocol which is one day, so instead 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:41.360 of taking a week off of work, one day where 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:45.480 you preload and there's science behind this with something called decyclisarian. 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:48.000 It's an antibiotic that used to be used for tuberculosis, 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:51.039 among other things. Put in a lozenge in your mouth, 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:53.880 and then an hour later you start these stimulations. You 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:57.599 do one day, three minute stimulations on the hour, and 0:04:57.680 --> 0:04:59.680 I have gone from basically like an eight or nine 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.040 of tense severity with generalized anxiety to like a zero 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:07.159 or a one for four or five months. Now you 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:11.320 cannot that one day from that one day, it is incredible. 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:14.640 Does it help? Does it hurt? The dose does matter? Right, 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:18.520 you can overdo it, but this is a combination of 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:23.680 pharmaceuticals to help with neuroplasticity and then brain stimulation. So 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:26.240 I've been looking very closely at bioelectric medicine. I think 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:29.360 this is and if I try not to do it 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:31.320 too much, but pat myself on the back a little bit, 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:33.839 say look at the four our body. And then the 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:37.920 subsequent ten fifteen years, a lot of that played out 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:41.279 and ended up being very very highly reinforced by science. 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:45.720 I'm placing a lot of my bets attentionally and then 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:49.960 on the more philosophical side, but intensely practical. I don't 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:54.240 think philosophy can be inert and kind of flaccid if 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:57.760 you choose the wrong approach. But ultimately, if you're trying 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:00.640 to decide on values, you're not going to do a 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:04.359 randomized control trial in them, right. You have to find 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:07.240 your way. Fortunately, people have been attempting to do this 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:11.480 for millennia, and I would say that in the last 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:18.599 few years especially. There's a great book called Already Free 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:23.520 I think it is by Bruce Tift that discusses kind 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:27.360 of two complimentary approaches, which are the let's just say, 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:32.679 developmental achievement approaches that Western psychotherapy might take, or self 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:34.839 help broadly, how do I improve myself? How do I 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:38.159 change my circumstances. But then on the opposite side, a 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:40.760 perhaps let's call it more Buddhist approach, although it's not 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:47.240 unique to Buddhists or Buddhism alone, the acceptance peach, recognizing 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:50.520 what is, allowing what is. It's a balancing act to 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:53.320 do both. But I've been so, I would say for 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:56.559 decades most of my life focused on the achievement piece, 0:06:57.279 --> 0:06:58.760 and there's a lot to be said for it, a 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:03.800 lot of upside. Paying also attention to the approaches the 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:07.800 practices that cultivate the other side, because guess what, none 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:09.640 of us have as much control as we might like 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:16.960 to think, so especially once you add in other humans. Yes, sorry, guys, 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:19.960 that's an illusion. So I would say those are a 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:22.200 few of the things that are very very present for me. 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:24.480 I love it. You've just given us the contents page 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:28.760 of our conversation. It's brilliant. This is what I enjoyed them. Yeah, 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:30.160 do you mind if we dive into some of those 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:30.400 a bit? 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:33.760 Yeah, for sure. And my hope and I also said 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:35.680 this before we hit record. It's like I don't have 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:40.480 anything to pitch or sell. I really am excited about 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:42.559 some of these things that I'm exploring now. So if 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:48.920 I can give people very specific, concrete recommendations, then I'll 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:52.040 be that in some way expand their thinking or help them. 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:53.520 Then I'm thrilled. 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:55.440 Yeah. No, I'm really grateful for you to coming on. 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:58.040 Let's dive in a cognitive fuel then to go first, 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:01.080 what do we currently do or what do we currently 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:04.960 know that we use for cognitive fuel? And then the 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:07.640 new approaches that you're looking at, how are they so different? 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:09.920 As you said, they have less side effects. We're talking 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:11.840 about potentially. 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:14.920 In terms of fuel. First, a caveat not a doctor, 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:18.880 don't play one on the internet, so talk to your physicians. However, 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:23.840 what I will say is it's helpful to think of 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:26.920 the brand like huge think of musculature. 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:27.280 Right. 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:32.280 The mind body separation duality is a complete falsehood. So 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:36.440 everything's really really tightly interlated. What I will say is 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:40.280 that if we look at the extremes to inform the memes. 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:43.000 This is something I like to use as a heuristic. 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:46.040 You can learn a lot by studying the extremes in athletics, 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:49.120 in business, the best and the worst outcomes, and that 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:51.160 tells you a lot about the middle, but not the 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:53.320 other way around. Like if you study the average, this 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:57.360 the ideal customer, the AB or C in the middle, 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:00.400 it doesn't actually help you solve the edge cases. All right, 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:04.400 So if we look at let's just say Alzheimer's, some people, 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:08.679 some scientists and doctors refer to Alzheimer's as type three diabetes. 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:12.920 Why because the brain and there are many factors go 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:14.840 into this can end up in a state where it's 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:19.720 very bad at utilizing glucose insulin insensitivity. You're basically diabetic 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:23.560 in your brain and I'm simplifying here, but for instance, 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:26.520 and I have done this with relatives of mine with Alzheimer's. 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:31.000 You give them an exogenous ketone supplement of the right kind, 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:33.680 give them a little shot, and I'll do it with 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:37.600 them so they're not freaked out. Within twenty minutes, their 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:43.160 sentences are longer, their rate of speech is faster. In 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:45.880 some instances, there's something called the clock test, for instance, 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:48.760 where you can look at the severity of Alzheimer's or 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:51.640 other conditions by having someone attempt to draw clock and 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:55.800 they just can't do it, and boom, like some type 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.640 of stage magic. Thirty minutes later, they can draw clock. 0:09:58.760 --> 0:09:59.840 Crazy, So what's going on? 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:03.120 Ketones are an alternate fuel source. And if you ever fast, 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:06.080 if you ever experiment with intermittent fasting, which we can 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:08.520 also come back to another thing that has my attention. 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:13.040 If you cultivate your ability to use ketones, suddenly you 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:15.520 have this very compelling alternate fuel source. I'll give you 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:18.880 a third one though that is new to me, even 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:22.040 though I look back at my experience in life through sports, 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:26.640 I'm like, ah, okay, that helps connect some dots. Lactate 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:29.520 If you ever have done a bunch of cycling, or 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:31.640 you go in the gym and you get that burn. 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:34.280 All right, Well, a big part of that is lactic 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:37.680 acid lactate. Turns out the brain can really use that 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:41.880 not only as a fuel, but it's also a signaling. 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:46.160 It's almost it's a signal or messenger that can produce 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:49.680 all of these changes in the brain. And there is 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:52.679 for instance, Tommy would introduce me to this, the Norwegian 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:55.760 four by four. People can look this up. Norwegian four 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:59.840 by four is a fact in effect doing it's view 0:10:59.880 --> 0:11:02.400 T max training. We can explain what that is, but 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:05.400 it's not really important right now. Basically, four minutes of 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:09.080 incredibly hard let's say stationary biking, you're getting up to 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:11.719 eighty five ninety percent of your max heart rate in 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:14.079 the last minute of those four you don't think you're 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:17.400 gonna make it right, Basically you're running away from wolves, okay, 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:20.560 and then you take three to four minutes off and 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:23.200 you repeat that again and you do four cycles. So 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:26.360 you're doing four minutes on. Let's just call four minutes 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:29.800 off four minutes on a data for four rounds. If 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:33.600 you do that, there's there's a study conducted three times 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:37.199 a week, and I think it was for six months. 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:43.720 The effects on your brain, which includes some plausible volumetric 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:45.920 changes like certain structures in your brand like the Hippi 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:49.720 campus actually grow right, one of the primary rs affected 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:54.600 by Alzheimer's, Those effects extend out for five years from 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:57.320 six months of training three times a week. What is 0:11:57.360 --> 0:11:57.839 going on? 0:11:58.080 --> 0:11:58.280 Yeah? 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:00.680 What is on the VO two MAC is just an 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:03.400 indicator of the work that you're putting in. Okay, well, 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:06.040 why does that kind of work matter? Because steady state 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:10.440 aerobics walking for long distances doesn't do it. And there 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:14.080 are people, credible people who focus on this who think 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:18.800 that lactate is the main driver. So, for instance, this morning, 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:21.480 before I came here, I was like, well, I'd like 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:23.120 to have a little bit of extra energy. So I 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:26.400 did a weight training workout where each of my sets 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:30.520 with leg press or leg extension or whatever large muscle groups. 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:33.640 I just turned on a music track that lasts four 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:34.880 to five minutes, and I was like, all right, I 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:36.880 can't stop for forty five minutes and it's going to 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:41.400 be really painful. And that's it. Because I think that 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:44.920 the cycling itself doesn't necessarily have any magic to it, 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:47.959 like you could use it grow it's the lactic acid, 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:51.400 it's the actual concentration in the blood. Those, I would 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:57.640 say are three interesting fuels to consider. And I'm sure 0:12:57.679 --> 0:12:59.960 we'll come back to this. But like sometimes you don't 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:04.480 have a problem solving issue. Sometimes you don't have a 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:06.640 quandary in your life that you can think your way 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:10.280 out of. You have a fuel issue. So before you 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:13.960 try to riddle yourself with journaling out of all of 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:18.800 your issues, maybe you're just starving. Yeah, and that could 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:21.319 mean you need food, could mean you need to improve 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:25.960 your insulin sensitivity. Maybe look at intermint fasting, which completely 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:30.880 blew my mind with how it changed my insulin sensitivity 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:35.560 and biomarkers over the course of four weeks. It really 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:40.400 shocked me. And or when these are actually compatible looking 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:43.880 at building up your keutogenic machinery, which you can do 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:44.800 in a whole bunch of ways. 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:46.600 I love the point you're making about fuel. And I 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:49.199 was definitely someone I always felt like when I came 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:51.360 to this work, I had a really strong mind because 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:53.960 of my previous work, but I hadn't really worked on 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:56.480 my body. And it was when I married my wife, 0:13:56.480 --> 0:14:01.640 who's a nutritionist and a dietitian. Yeah, very useful, extremely 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:04.600 useful for many of itsh But the body became a 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:07.960 part of the conversation because she was so much about 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:11.160 physical health as well as mental and emotional health. And 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:13.360 I think I was so in the mental emotional sphere 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:16.040 that I kind of disregarded the body to some degree, 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:20.600 only to realize how much I was limiting myself based 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:22.480 on this fuel point, and even to speak to a 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:26.480 very recent occurrence, probably a few years back, I was 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:30.840 experiencing fatigue and low energy. Although I was positive and 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:33.960 living my purpose and felt meaning in my life and 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:38.600 had beautiful relationships, but I was just tired. And I 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:40.840 remember getting my biomarkers done and everything, and it turned 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:42.880 out to be something really basic, but they were just like, 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:46.840 your vitamin D is out of ten. It should be 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:49.160 at a sixty to one hundred. I'd like, you know, 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:51.920 for the optimal, but you're at ten. Like, how did 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.360 I not understand that something as small as this could 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:56.840 be affecting my energy? It wasn't just about meaning, And 0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:59.040 I think you're so right. People are journaling really hard 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:02.480 to on their purpose. They're trying to do this thing mentally, 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:04.880 and half the time it's like you're not giving yourself 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:07.680 enough fuel to even be able to have that breakthrough. 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:10.560 Yeah, it doesn't matter how good you are driving the 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:13.560 race car if no one's done oil change, no one's 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:14.400 checked the tires. 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:16.680 Yeah yeah, no one's. 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:19.160 Put proper fuel in the tank, et cetera, et cetera. 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:24.760 So I think that those levels are important to check, right, 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:28.160 Like you mentioned the vitamin D in a lot of 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:32.320 my friends who have complained about anxiety or depression are fatigue. 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:36.960 They might do a micronutrient test and realize that they're 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:41.080 deficient in trace minerals very common, whether it's copper, selenium 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:43.760 or other. And it's like, okay, here, try and like 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:47.720 eat a handful of brazil nuts once a day for 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:49.440 a week and let me know how it goes. And 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:52.880 they're like, I have of energy. I'm like, well yeah, okay, great, 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:56.960 Well then you can check off the selenium. So which 0:15:57.000 --> 0:16:00.000 I think can be very reassuring for folks, right, because 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:02.800 if they've been banging their head against the wall trying 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:05.800 to quote unquote figure out X and they're just not 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:10.480 making progress, it's not necessarily because your brain isn't working, 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:12.720 you're not smart enough. Well, maybe it is because your 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:17.200 brain isn't worrying, but you can fix it holistically through 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:21.560 looking at your mind and body as one thing. Certainly 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:24.480 through say meditation, right, you can have you can exert 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:28.320 all sorts of interesting effects on your body right through 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:31.920 the breath as this sort of interface with the autonomous 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:36.360 autonomic nervous system. So it stands to reason you can 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:39.360 do the other. It's bidirectional, like if you want to, 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:41.080 you can improve the mind by working on the body, 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:43.200 and you can improve the body by working on the mind. 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:47.200 They go together absolutely, So that's that's a lot of 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:50.120 what has my attention. I mean, there's a lot of 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:53.040 nonsense floating around out there about vegas nerve stimulation, but 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:56.600 if you talk to certain scientists like doctor Kevin Tracey, 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:59.320 who wrote a great book. I think it's a great 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:02.480 book called The Nerve, all about the vegas nerve, which 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:07.240 is really like two Transatlantic cables on either side of 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:10.240 the neck with roughly ninety two hundred thousand fibers on 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:13.080 either side. He's got a great story in the book 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:17.760 where he's discussing all of this research related to in effect, 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:24.679 activating something called the inflammatory reflex and preventing overwhelming cytokine 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:28.040 storms for covid, for you name it, and you can 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:29.840 stimulate the vegaus nerve a bunch of different ways. You 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:34.320 could have an implant. There's actually something called femodidine over 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:36.560 the counter. Talk to you doctor, don't just start taking this. 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:39.800 But it's an ant acid, I believe, and that actually 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:44.320 has some incredible effects related to that. But he was 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:47.000 on stage talking about this at one point and the 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:50.479 Dalai Lama and the Dialama's contingent happened to be at 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:56.080 the same event, and the Dalai Lama got up afterwards 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:59.320 because Kevin was talking about the vegas nerve right just 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:03.960 for simplicity singular, and the Dialloma asked a question after 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:08.720 the presentation. The translator translated and said, you know, his 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:11.320 Holiness would like to know are there two of these 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:14.120 that run down the neck? And he said, yes, actually 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:16.800 there are two, and the dialogum kind of chuckled, and 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:19.879 there's a practice that they have that involves meditating on 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:22.160 these two channels that run down the neck and then 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:26.520 basically innervate the rest of the body, including the abdomen, 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:28.560 And it's like, hmm, that's interesting. 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:32.920 Yeah, yeah, I find I find that East West connection, 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:36.160 like so fascinating, and how the science is being able 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:40.199 to prove these ancient techniques. I remember when I was 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:42.680 talking to someone else on the show. It was that 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:46.479 idea of them talking about circadian rhythms and looking at 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:48.359 the sun first thing in the morning, et cetera, which 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:50.480 of course you've talked about as well. And I was 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:52.760 talking about how in the monastery in India it was 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:57.160 always about sun salutation. So Suriya namashkar is the Sanskrit 0:18:57.240 --> 0:19:00.320 version of sun salutations, and that was the because you 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:02.800 woke up in the morning and you paid respects to 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:05.639 the sun, which meant making you know, eye contact with 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:07.800 the sun and allowing the sun rays to enter. And 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:09.879 I'm like, all of these technic they didn't have the 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:14.240 language that we live, but the technique existed far back then. 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:16.879 Talk to me about the did you call it the 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:21.520 bioelectric bioelectric medicine medicine? Yeah, because you're talking about chips. 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:22.440 Where's is pilled? 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:24.399 Yeah, chips or electricity resistor. 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:27.080 Explain to me what you mean by chips, well. 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:30.760 Just microchips, so actually using a device which could be 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:34.800 in the case of I think it's set point medical 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:38.879 for instance, has an implant which is the size of 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:43.040 omegas recapsule. I think it's called set Point Medical. They 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:44.280 were on the cover of the New York Times for 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:46.720 this and it just got approved. Goes in the neck. 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:51.560 It's actually a very fast procedure and it applies stimulation 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:55.600 to the vegas nerve, which runs right along the crowdies basically, 0:19:56.560 --> 0:20:01.080 and it is used for utoia furnace. It gives some 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:06.760 people incredible relief where they might have been incapacitated laying 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:09.359 on a couch, can't get up, have to elevate their legs, 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:11.520 can't walk more than a few steps. They get this 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:14.440 implant and then boom, like two months later, they're running 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:16.919 upstairs on a tour through Europe with their husband. I mean, 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:18.040 that's a real example. 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:21.560 It doesn't solve it, it doesn't reverse, It just provides. 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:24.320 This is that's a very good question. I shouldn't speak 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:26.760 to that because I don't know enough about arthritis and what 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:29.600 it looks like in terms of development over long periods 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:33.360 of time. What I will say is that broadly speaking, 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:38.280 this is controversial, but it's it's not that controversial with 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:40.239 a few scientists are going to interact with who look 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.040 at this very closely. I think a lot of our 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:47.920 psychiatric disorders, depression, anxiety, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:50.840 Some of them you may be predisposed to those things genetically, 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:55.000 but I believe a lot of those chronic conditions start 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:59.719 with acute infection. Much like long covid or long lime disease. 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:05.920 There's some acute immune system insult, often an infection that 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:11.760 leads to then chronic neuroinflammation. And when you address that neuroinflammation, 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:15.440 a lot of the symptoms can abate, which is why 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:18.359 there have been studies looking at just giving people who 0:21:18.359 --> 0:21:21.520 are depressed anti inflammatoris And I'm not saying, by the way, 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:24.440 anyone listening or watching that you should go gobble anti 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:28.199 inflammatories their side effects. Don't do that. But maybe there 0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:32.159 are other ways to address excessive inflammation. And it turns 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:35.960 out vegas nerve stimulation could be one of those. There 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:39.720 are other approaches. I can't recommend any current device out there. 0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:43.919 I'm interacting with. This Scandinavian researcher is amazing. I'm hoping 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:45.960 that at least in the US, maybe in the next 0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:48.639 six months, something will be available that people can grab. 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:52.840 I'll come back to that in terms of ancient insight 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:56.040 being corroborated by science, because there's a really cool tie 0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:59.000 in breathing. Do breath work. There are different types of 0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:03.080 breath work that absolutely seem to have an effect on 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:07.600 the inflammatory reflex, and that's actually part of the reason 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:13.800 why I think folks often see benefits from meditation practice, 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:15.600 especially if they do it twice a day, like ten 0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:20.600 to twenty minutes percession. After about two weeks, it's so consistent, right, 0:22:20.640 --> 0:22:22.080 It's like for the first week they're like, I don't 0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:24.320 know if this is doing anything, and then after like 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:27.399 seven to ten days, there seems to be something that happens, 0:22:27.440 --> 0:22:29.560 and people are like, I'm so much calmer. I'm sorry 0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:31.639 to this all right. There are million different ways you 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:34.639 could explain it, but let's throw one out there that 0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:38.720 doesn't really I haven't really heard discussed that the rhythmic 0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:41.919 breathing that you and train when you're doing that kind 0:22:41.960 --> 0:22:45.280 of sitting activates the vagus nerve. If you use a 0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:48.320 stimulator guess what, you use it five minutes in the 0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:50.560 morning save for the year, five minutes in the morning, 0:22:50.600 --> 0:22:54.520 five minutes at night. Because the effects last about twelve hours, okay, 0:22:55.080 --> 0:22:59.040 and it takes about two weeks for most people to 0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:03.119 notice everything settle. Yeah, well that's a strange coincidence. And 0:23:03.200 --> 0:23:06.000 if you do box breathing or something like that, for 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:10.399 people who are maybe tuning in, we're like, oh, meditation, God, Like, 0:23:10.400 --> 0:23:13.119 if I have to sit and focus on my breath 0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:15.480 one more time, or you know, imagine a candle or 0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:18.600 whatever it might be. It's not necessarily for everybody. I 0:23:18.640 --> 0:23:21.679 get it. I mean, my monkey mind is on like 0:23:21.760 --> 0:23:24.600 high octane fuel. I get it. But you could use 0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:27.560 an app that just helps you breathe right, or something 0:23:27.840 --> 0:23:30.960 box breathing or whatever it might be. Try that ten 0:23:31.040 --> 0:23:34.480 minutes twice a day for two weeks. See what happens. 0:23:34.880 --> 0:23:38.720 I think most folks will be very pleasantly surprised. On 0:23:38.760 --> 0:23:43.400 the ancient wisdom side, I've always been interested, but skeptical, 0:23:43.720 --> 0:23:49.840 interested in, but skeptical of acupuncture. Skeptical because, as with 0:23:50.040 --> 0:23:56.680 many modalities, practitioners sometimes oversell it panacea for everything. It's true, psychedelics, 0:23:56.720 --> 0:23:59.920 it's true, massage, it's for pet it's true. For surgery, 0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:04.160 it's I can fix all your problems, all right. Probably not. However, 0:24:04.200 --> 0:24:07.240 there are a few aspects, and I went to two 0:24:07.280 --> 0:24:11.680 universities in China. I speak Chinese, meaning Mandarin. In this case, 0:24:11.840 --> 0:24:15.280 I've spent a lot of time around Chinese medicine, traditional 0:24:15.320 --> 0:24:19.520 Chinese medicine, acupuncture on animals. How does that work? 0:24:19.600 --> 0:24:19.760 Right? 0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:23.040 As far as we know, maybe there's not a whole 0:24:23.040 --> 0:24:26.719 lot of Pacibo effect with dogs. Let's just say so, 0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:30.720 being able to use acupuncture in place of say, anesthesia 0:24:30.760 --> 0:24:34.800 with animals, that's pretty weird. That's interesting. The other one 0:24:35.640 --> 0:24:38.880 that seems pretty compelling. There are several. But the other 0:24:38.920 --> 0:24:43.600 one is pregnancy using acupuncture for fertility. So what on 0:24:43.640 --> 0:24:46.120 earth is going on? If that is actually a thing 0:24:47.160 --> 0:24:50.120 for the time being, Let's say maybe it is. And 0:24:50.400 --> 0:24:53.479 I know a few traditional Chinese medicine practitioners and they 0:24:53.520 --> 0:24:57.080 have walls of photos of babies, and I'm like, that's interesting. 0:24:57.160 --> 0:24:57.280 Now. 0:24:57.320 --> 0:24:59.639 You can't underestimate the power of the mind and the 0:24:59.640 --> 0:25:02.119 pace effect, which, by the way, people are like, oh, 0:25:02.119 --> 0:25:04.679 it's just place effect, sebo effect. It's the craziest thing 0:25:04.680 --> 0:25:07.359 in the world. But let's leave that alone for the moment. 0:25:07.560 --> 0:25:09.880 One of the ways that you would stimulate can stimulate 0:25:09.920 --> 0:25:12.040 some of the fibers in the vagus nerve is with 0:25:12.160 --> 0:25:16.840 placement on the ear and you're applying electric current on 0:25:16.880 --> 0:25:21.480 something called the symbicancia. Right here, the placement really matters. 0:25:21.680 --> 0:25:24.680 It's very very specific, and then you need another probe 0:25:24.720 --> 0:25:28.879 to ground or complete the circuit effectively. That would be 0:25:28.880 --> 0:25:30.840 the five minutes of stimulation. You can also do it 0:25:30.880 --> 0:25:33.639 the neck, but the next quite uncomfortable. The placement of 0:25:33.640 --> 0:25:39.159 those probes corresponds to where the traditional Chinese medicine practitioners 0:25:39.720 --> 0:25:43.359 put the needles. No way, and electricity is not the 0:25:43.400 --> 0:25:45.159 only way you can do it right, and it's not 0:25:45.240 --> 0:25:47.920 the only way. I mean, there was a physician in 0:25:48.080 --> 0:25:51.080 France who experimented with taking ballpoint pens and pressing on 0:25:51.119 --> 0:25:53.919 different parts of the year, which, funny enough, that was 0:25:53.920 --> 0:25:57.040 in the nineteen hundreds ended up getting retrofitted and adopted 0:25:57.040 --> 0:25:59.960 by a lot of traditional Chinese medicine practitioners in China. 0:26:00.760 --> 0:26:04.000 But the overlap's interesting, right, Like, that's very interesting, and 0:26:04.040 --> 0:26:07.240 it's also you have to wonder, it's like, man, how 0:26:07.240 --> 0:26:09.480 many thousands of years of trial and error does that 0:26:09.520 --> 0:26:10.280 take to figure out? 0:26:12.160 --> 0:26:14.920 Yeah? And how did they figure it out too? 0:26:15.119 --> 0:26:19.680 Yeah? Yeah, it's wild and I should say as one 0:26:19.760 --> 0:26:21.639 voice of sanity. There's also a lot of stuff that 0:26:21.680 --> 0:26:24.480 has existed for a very long time that is probably nonsense, 0:26:24.720 --> 0:26:28.480 right of course, but it suffice to say to answer 0:26:28.480 --> 0:26:32.919 your question. Bioelectric medicine is using electricity or electronics in 0:26:33.040 --> 0:26:35.160 place of drugs. 0:26:35.119 --> 0:26:37.640 To avoid the side effects, not being the primary. 0:26:37.359 --> 0:26:41.919 To avoid the side effects, to help establish homeostasis, perhaps 0:26:41.960 --> 0:26:46.639 as opposed to overall blocking something or overall stimulating something, 0:26:46.680 --> 0:26:50.240 you know, smashing some receptor. But then, oh, by the way, 0:26:50.240 --> 0:26:52.320 it also has an affinity all these other receptors that 0:26:52.640 --> 0:26:53.960 we don't really want to mess with it, but we 0:26:53.960 --> 0:26:56.760 can't avoid it. And there is a place for drugs. Look, 0:26:56.760 --> 0:26:59.560 I take prescription medication right, It's like there is a 0:26:59.560 --> 0:27:05.760 place for but it's in at least the US, where 0:27:05.840 --> 0:27:08.360 it's shocking to me that this somehow got pushed through. 0:27:08.560 --> 0:27:14.640 You can advertise on television directly to patients selling drugs. 0:27:14.680 --> 0:27:20.760 It's outrageous. The pharmaceutical and you know, industrial complex is 0:27:20.760 --> 0:27:24.600 a very real thing, and the incentives are very perverse 0:27:24.640 --> 0:27:29.520 in a lot of cases. So we are overprescribed, over medicated. 0:27:30.040 --> 0:27:32.119 With our question, yeah, I blew my mind when I 0:27:32.160 --> 0:27:34.159 moved to this country and saw those ads, I couldn't 0:27:34.160 --> 0:27:35.919 believe they were real. I was like, this has to 0:27:35.920 --> 0:27:38.320 be an snl skit so like, it has to be 0:27:38.359 --> 0:27:41.200 something so bad. I couldn't believe it because you don't 0:27:41.240 --> 0:27:43.679 have that in the UK. You just you never see that. Yeah, 0:27:43.720 --> 0:27:45.440 And so when I moved here, I was like, Wow, 0:27:45.480 --> 0:27:48.359 it's literally telling me that this might kill me, like 0:27:48.520 --> 0:27:51.320 might kill you is a legitimate you know, in a. 0:27:51.440 --> 0:27:54.720 Very very fast word permitted fine print. 0:27:54.960 --> 0:28:15.240 Yeah, it's it's it's unbelievable. No, I appreciate that. A 0:28:15.280 --> 0:28:17.080 lot of what you spoke about. You talked about, you know, 0:28:17.160 --> 0:28:20.200 doing the the lactate and it was like six months 0:28:20.200 --> 0:28:22.960 to unlock. You talked about the of the four four 0:28:23.040 --> 0:28:25.359 four four like four on four our four on for 0:28:25.520 --> 0:28:28.200 off three times a week six months, and then you 0:28:28.280 --> 0:28:31.000 spoke about the idea of you know, two weeks of 0:28:31.040 --> 0:28:34.240 meditation twice a day to feel the benefits. What I 0:28:34.320 --> 0:28:37.399 find more and more fascinating even in myself and what 0:28:37.520 --> 0:28:39.680 to speak of our community and the audience that tunes 0:28:39.680 --> 0:28:43.000 into shows like this, is we know that everyone struggles 0:28:43.000 --> 0:28:45.520 with that initial discomfort. Like you said, you have to 0:28:45.560 --> 0:28:47.440 do it for two weeks to start feeling the benefits 0:28:47.480 --> 0:28:50.360 and noticing that that calm or letting things set, or 0:28:50.360 --> 0:28:52.280 you have to do something for six months. What have 0:28:52.400 --> 0:28:56.360 you found to be the best startup strategy to a 0:28:56.440 --> 0:28:59.520 new habit to unlock its potential when it may take 0:28:59.560 --> 0:29:01.120 two weeks, don look, it's benefit. 0:29:01.840 --> 0:29:05.120 This might sound like a simplistic answer, but it's telling 0:29:05.120 --> 0:29:07.720 people that, yeah, do you know what I mean? Yeah, 0:29:07.720 --> 0:29:11.200 Because in many cases it's it's like, hey, study a 0:29:11.320 --> 0:29:15.960 language and you'll learn the language, but you're setting someone 0:29:16.080 --> 0:29:18.200 up for failure in that example. And I use that 0:29:18.280 --> 0:29:20.800 just because most people are like, oh god, so much 0:29:20.840 --> 0:29:24.680 PTSD about learning languages. Right, But if you tell them like, hey, 0:29:24.680 --> 0:29:26.920 here's what the graph looks like as you you're going 0:29:27.000 --> 0:29:28.840 to have this type of experience, and then once you 0:29:28.880 --> 0:29:31.320 add this new grammatical construction, like you're going to have 0:29:31.360 --> 0:29:34.720 a bit of a trough of sorrow. Don't worry about it. Right, 0:29:34.760 --> 0:29:37.600 You're gonna plateau, but you're not actually platauing. Your mind 0:29:37.640 --> 0:29:41.880 is adjusting to involve this additional complexity. And then then 0:29:41.920 --> 0:29:44.720 you kind of explain what the stock chart of your 0:29:44.760 --> 0:29:47.760 brain is going to look like. Then people don't freak 0:29:47.800 --> 0:29:50.880 out and the abandonment rates can be less, and so 0:29:50.920 --> 0:29:55.640 I think with something like meditation, saying you may see 0:29:55.680 --> 0:30:02.360 benefits sooner, but experience seems to indicate that a switch 0:30:02.440 --> 0:30:07.080 is flipped around two weeks. So commit to two and 0:30:07.160 --> 0:30:11.840 a half weeks and do less than you think is necessary. 0:30:12.160 --> 0:30:14.320 Do less than you think you can do. This supplies 0:30:14.360 --> 0:30:16.640 to any new habit as far as I'm concerned. If 0:30:16.680 --> 0:30:19.840 you think you can do twenty minutes, but that's pushing 0:30:19.880 --> 0:30:24.160 it into redline territory, do ten, do less than you 0:30:24.160 --> 0:30:27.840 think you can do, because that is going to contribute 0:30:27.880 --> 0:30:32.280 to endurance and longevity and enthusiasm. Don't bleed the stone. 0:30:33.360 --> 0:30:36.040 There's a lot of upside to the Protestant work ethic 0:30:36.120 --> 0:30:40.400 and YadA YadA YadA, rugged individuals stuff that we find 0:30:40.880 --> 0:30:44.120 in many parts of the world. This is not a 0:30:44.200 --> 0:30:46.520 place to show how much you can do if you're 0:30:46.520 --> 0:30:50.000 trying to adopt a new behavior. So with the meditation, 0:30:50.560 --> 0:30:55.520 I would just I think it is undervalued how setting 0:30:55.640 --> 0:31:00.600 expectations can be the missing ingredient. It's just like, Hey, 0:31:00.760 --> 0:31:02.120 if I were trying to sell one of my friends, 0:31:02.160 --> 0:31:05.840 which I do often, I would just say, look much 0:31:06.000 --> 0:31:10.000 like katosis or a ketogenic diet. It's pass fail, it's binary. 0:31:10.040 --> 0:31:12.800 You can't do it fifty percent. The good news is 0:31:12.880 --> 0:31:15.840 you're going to know after two and a half weeks, 0:31:15.840 --> 0:31:18.200 in the case of meditation, whether this works for you 0:31:18.280 --> 0:31:20.360 at all or not. And if it works, it could 0:31:20.360 --> 0:31:23.040 be pretty dramatic. But if you give up after a week, 0:31:23.160 --> 0:31:26.120 the whole thing is wasted. So just commit to it 0:31:26.280 --> 0:31:29.440 and a half and you know, if you need to 0:31:29.520 --> 0:31:31.800 do a bet with a friend or something to set 0:31:31.880 --> 0:31:35.560 steaks and incentivize yourself so you'll be embarrassed if you stop, 0:31:35.640 --> 0:31:38.720 Like guess what that's useful too. Yeah, I've talked a 0:31:38.760 --> 0:31:40.520 lot about that in the four Hour Shaft, Like how 0:31:40.600 --> 0:31:43.600 do you actually set up incentives so that it's harder 0:31:43.640 --> 0:31:45.960 to quit? These are very you know, have your friend 0:31:46.000 --> 0:31:48.240 take some photos of you and your tidy whities and 0:31:48.360 --> 0:31:52.000 unflattering light and that'll get released into the wild if 0:31:52.000 --> 0:31:53.720 you don't do it for two and a half weeks 0:31:54.040 --> 0:31:56.240 or it's like one hundred dollars bet and your buddy, 0:31:56.760 --> 0:31:59.040 your friend is going to donate that to your most 0:31:59.320 --> 0:32:01.840 hated play medical candidate in your name. If you don't 0:32:01.920 --> 0:32:03.320 do it for two and a half weeks, Okay, great, 0:32:04.680 --> 0:32:09.080 you're more likely to do it. Everyone needs reasons, so 0:32:09.720 --> 0:32:12.880 so good. I think that's the biggest one. Honestly, it's 0:32:12.920 --> 0:32:16.320 just setting expectations. And in the case of the Norwegian 0:32:16.360 --> 0:32:20.959 four by four this is a quirk of science and 0:32:21.160 --> 0:32:24.600 interpretation of science. So they did do the six months, 0:32:24.880 --> 0:32:27.880 and the effects seem to extend out to five years. 0:32:28.960 --> 0:32:32.080 But that doesn't mean that you need six months. That 0:32:32.240 --> 0:32:35.880 was just the study design, So who knows. I would 0:32:35.880 --> 0:32:39.440 imagine that it's not all or nothing. That is cumulative, 0:32:39.840 --> 0:32:42.880 And that's actually what I was texting with Tommy Wood 0:32:42.880 --> 0:32:45.120 about today. I said, well, like, what do we know 0:32:45.160 --> 0:32:47.680 and what do we not know? Because that was the 0:32:47.720 --> 0:32:51.280 study design and that's I'm sure since been replicated and 0:32:51.320 --> 0:32:55.600 people are modeling that. But is it possible that instead 0:32:55.600 --> 0:33:00.680 of say four by four, so you know, six minutes 0:33:00.680 --> 0:33:03.240 of this potwo max training, is it possible that less 0:33:03.280 --> 0:33:05.520 time would work as long as you hit certain peak 0:33:05.600 --> 0:33:08.960 levels of lactate? Could a ten minute could a five 0:33:09.080 --> 0:33:12.760 minute session of weight training work if you hit a 0:33:12.800 --> 0:33:15.680 certain minimum threshold? Question mark? 0:33:16.040 --> 0:33:16.240 Yeah? 0:33:16.360 --> 0:33:16.800 Who knows? 0:33:17.120 --> 0:33:17.320 Yeah? 0:33:17.520 --> 0:33:20.920 Right? Has anyone done three months to range a protocol 0:33:20.960 --> 0:33:23.880 and looked at the effects yes or no, maybe maybe not. 0:33:24.000 --> 0:33:25.560 This is the kind of stuff that I also fund 0:33:25.560 --> 0:33:29.040 through my foundation. Right, I get so tired of kind 0:33:29.040 --> 0:33:31.240 of chewing on my fingernails wondering about these things that 0:33:31.280 --> 0:33:33.520 I just fund a lot of science. But there may 0:33:33.560 --> 0:33:38.760 be a smaller minimum effective dose for that stuff. We'll see. Yeah, 0:33:39.320 --> 0:33:42.040 fascinest it's the business of science, right, Yeah, absolutely, trying 0:33:42.120 --> 0:33:44.280 not to fool yourself, setting things up so it's very 0:33:44.320 --> 0:33:46.640 hard for you to fool yourself or a bias. 0:33:46.960 --> 0:33:51.120 Yeah, so I like that. Yeah, underset expectations and do 0:33:51.240 --> 0:33:53.400 less than you think. That's a great one. Do lesson 0:33:53.440 --> 0:33:55.800 you think, do less than you think is a brilliant, 0:33:55.840 --> 0:33:58.360 brilliant method. And I think we're so scared of saying 0:33:58.360 --> 0:34:01.479 that to our friends or people we love, because we 0:34:01.560 --> 0:34:05.000 know everyone wants instant change. Yeah, and so because people 0:34:05.000 --> 0:34:07.200 want instant change, we want to say do this today 0:34:07.200 --> 0:34:09.520 and it will calm you down. And we know that 0:34:09.600 --> 0:34:11.880 isn't true because it's going to take a practice in 0:34:11.920 --> 0:34:13.439 a discipline, and it might. 0:34:13.680 --> 0:34:16.880 But yeah, I mean there are some there are some 0:34:17.200 --> 0:34:20.600 very fast returns, and then other things take seem to 0:34:20.640 --> 0:34:26.360 take more time. I interviewed years ago someone named John Crystal, 0:34:26.520 --> 0:34:29.040 who I believe is the chair of psychiatry at Yale 0:34:29.160 --> 0:34:31.080 or he was at the time, and he did a 0:34:31.120 --> 0:34:33.719 lot of along with his colleagues, a lot of the 0:34:33.760 --> 0:34:37.960 seminal work on ketamine as an antidepressant in humans, and 0:34:38.960 --> 0:34:42.600 I think it was zero point five milligrams per kilogram 0:34:42.680 --> 0:34:46.719 over X period of time, and it showed these amazing effects. 0:34:46.760 --> 0:34:49.959 But now the point five milligrams per kilogram has become 0:34:49.960 --> 0:34:53.480 this religious dogma among a lot of practitioners, including some 0:34:53.520 --> 0:34:55.920 scientists or are like, this is the protocol, and I 0:34:55.960 --> 0:34:58.520 was like, well is it. It's one protocol. 0:34:58.680 --> 0:35:00.920 Yeah, yeah, that was tested in that way, but. 0:35:00.920 --> 0:35:03.759 It doesn't mean that is the end all be all. 0:35:04.480 --> 0:35:07.960 I would say also, just on the ketemede front, very risk, combound, 0:35:08.360 --> 0:35:12.880 high likelihood of addiction. Listen to that episode or just 0:35:13.040 --> 0:35:17.440 do some real deep dive before you ever consider having 0:35:18.000 --> 0:35:22.200 certainly any ketemine at home, whether that's sir Johnson Johnson 0:35:22.280 --> 0:35:26.880 as ketamine spravado or through a clinic. My recommendation is 0:35:27.000 --> 0:35:30.839 do not have lozenges or anything like that at home. 0:35:31.000 --> 0:35:32.760 If you're going to do if you're going to pursue 0:35:32.760 --> 0:35:37.440 that for different applications. I think it's very interesting for suicidality. 0:35:38.080 --> 0:35:39.680 It's one of the few things that I've seen if 0:35:39.680 --> 0:35:43.360 someone is acutely at risk of hurting themselves in some cases, 0:35:43.400 --> 0:35:46.960 with an infusion or an injection, a few hours later, 0:35:47.400 --> 0:35:49.600 they go from I'm going to kill myself today too. 0:35:49.680 --> 0:35:51.719 I don't know what I was so upset about. That's 0:35:51.760 --> 0:35:55.360 crazy that. Yeah, I've seen that multiple times and so 0:35:55.440 --> 0:35:58.400 of other clinicians. It's that's one of the few interventions 0:35:58.400 --> 0:36:01.840 I would say for that particular type of catastrophic scenario. 0:36:01.960 --> 0:36:05.400 That's pretty interesting. So, and I guess I'll stop there 0:36:05.400 --> 0:36:05.640 for the. 0:36:07.080 --> 0:36:08.920 So. I love it, man, this is what I wanted. 0:36:08.960 --> 0:36:10.440 I was like, I was like, you're one of the 0:36:10.480 --> 0:36:12.680 few guests, You're one of the few people you can 0:36:12.680 --> 0:36:15.200 truly do this with. Well, I'm just like Tim, I 0:36:15.280 --> 0:36:17.399 just want to know what you're fast in my brain. 0:36:18.000 --> 0:36:18.719 Crazy, that's what. 0:36:18.840 --> 0:36:20.480 But that's what I love about it, Like it's it's 0:36:20.520 --> 0:36:22.200 you know that. That's what I love about talking to you, 0:36:22.280 --> 0:36:24.080 or like learning from you over the years, is that 0:36:24.520 --> 0:36:28.560 you're just so deeply curious about so many things happening 0:36:28.560 --> 0:36:30.640 at the same time, and they're just and they're all 0:36:30.680 --> 0:36:33.600 just interesting. And new, and they help you be more 0:36:33.640 --> 0:36:36.520 curious and ask questions and you know, and and I 0:36:36.560 --> 0:36:38.880 appreciate that because I'm like, otherwise, what's the point, Like 0:36:38.920 --> 0:36:40.120 why why have we been doing this? You know? 0:36:40.239 --> 0:36:44.040 It's it. Yeah, people can can see why I need 0:36:44.040 --> 0:36:45.600 to deal with the double edged sort of OCD. 0:36:46.000 --> 0:36:46.200 Yeah. 0:36:46.440 --> 0:36:50.640 No, it's great when you're looking at science. But if 0:36:50.640 --> 0:36:53.279 you're looking at some mistake you made yesterday and you're 0:36:53.320 --> 0:36:56.040 thinking about that for four days straight, maybe not so helpful. 0:36:56.520 --> 0:36:58.319 You know, how did you make that? Was there ever 0:36:58.400 --> 0:37:00.279 a turn you needed to make? Yeah? 0:37:00.320 --> 0:37:04.840 I mean that's why I did the antibiotic plus accelerated TMS. 0:37:04.960 --> 0:37:07.880 Oh yeah, well I helped you make that ten a few. 0:37:07.640 --> 0:37:10.799 Things, right, I think there's a degree of pain that, 0:37:11.640 --> 0:37:16.000 especially over long periods of time, you want relief from. 0:37:16.600 --> 0:37:20.840 And for some of us, that is just the looping, 0:37:21.080 --> 0:37:25.600 rumitative mind that is turning on itself. So whether that's 0:37:27.120 --> 0:37:29.440 could be any number of things, right, could be. And 0:37:29.520 --> 0:37:32.319 in terms of OCD, like my mom's makes me look 0:37:32.360 --> 0:37:35.200 like a cakewalk with her OCD. But I'm not flipping lights, 0:37:35.239 --> 0:37:37.480 which is I'm not washing my hands, no, no, which 0:37:37.560 --> 0:37:39.080 is not to denigrate any of that stuff. It's like 0:37:39.120 --> 0:37:42.279 people have different ways of manifesting. For me, it's all internal. Yes, 0:37:42.600 --> 0:37:44.960 it's all internal. What if this I should have said 0:37:44.960 --> 0:37:48.279 that loop blup loop loop loop imagining outcomes, et cetera. 0:37:48.440 --> 0:37:51.080 Perseverating on some conversation that I wish had gone a 0:37:51.080 --> 0:37:58.520 different way, and it's exhausting. It's really exhausting, and interest 0:37:58.600 --> 0:38:02.080 in peace. Nolan Williams and certainly passed away. But I 0:38:02.320 --> 0:38:08.120 was introduced to him through the topic of psychedelics because 0:38:08.840 --> 0:38:12.239 he pioneered at Stanford. Also, he was a real polymath. 0:38:13.239 --> 0:38:16.640 A lot of very compelling research related to I begain 0:38:17.520 --> 0:38:22.680 So I began as an alkaloid derived from Iboga taberneth, 0:38:22.800 --> 0:38:27.080 which is a psychedelic plant. In this case, the Whiti 0:38:27.120 --> 0:38:30.680 tribe and others are using the root bark for these 0:38:30.920 --> 0:38:35.719 very long, super intense mount everest of psychedelic like experiences. 0:38:36.600 --> 0:38:38.359 It is not to be trifled with. There are some 0:38:38.480 --> 0:38:41.719 very significant cardiac risks for certain people. You can die 0:38:41.880 --> 0:38:48.520 taken this unlike most psychedelics. And he was the first 0:38:48.600 --> 0:38:53.400 to really put under a fine scientific lens some of 0:38:53.400 --> 0:39:00.520 the neuroanatomical changes, specifically in veterans. And I began is 0:39:00.840 --> 0:39:04.680 It's a pretty remarkable compound in the sense that it 0:39:04.760 --> 0:39:10.200 effectively reversed the brain age of these veterans, and specifically 0:39:10.239 --> 0:39:14.680 in cases a traumatic brain injury. That's strange. This is 0:39:14.760 --> 0:39:18.200 not really something you see. It's not something that people 0:39:18.239 --> 0:39:21.880 that have observed with other drugs, including other psychedelics. And 0:39:21.960 --> 0:39:24.480 it seems to relate to something called glee ol derived 0:39:24.520 --> 0:39:27.959 neurotrophic factor. But suffice to say, I connected with him 0:39:28.200 --> 0:39:33.000 about that, and then it turned out this guy's not 0:39:33.080 --> 0:39:35.280 a one trick pony. He also is one of the 0:39:35.320 --> 0:39:40.440 world leaders in brain non invasive brain stimulation and accelerate TMS. 0:39:40.480 --> 0:39:43.279 And I started looking at the literature and the result 0:39:43.360 --> 0:39:44.759 and I'm like, you got to be kidding me. I mean, 0:39:44.760 --> 0:39:46.880 this reads like science fiction number one, number two. It 0:39:46.880 --> 0:39:50.040 seems unbelievable, like a total scam. But I know it's 0:39:50.080 --> 0:39:54.000 not a scam. Like these are very, very top tier scientists. 0:39:54.719 --> 0:39:57.920 And when I realized that it could be applied to 0:39:58.080 --> 0:40:02.160 well a few things backstore, I always had self described 0:40:02.160 --> 0:40:05.239 as someone who struggled with depression. When I actually was 0:40:05.280 --> 0:40:09.680 able to address it most successfully, I realized that the 0:40:09.760 --> 0:40:15.640 depression was born of fatigue, which came from anxiety which 0:40:15.760 --> 0:40:20.360 interrupted my sleep. So the Dominoda tip was actually the 0:40:20.400 --> 0:40:23.640 anxiety piece. Much like it's kind of like, this is 0:40:23.680 --> 0:40:25.799 not the greatest comparison, but like the Votwo Max, it's 0:40:25.840 --> 0:40:29.279 like that's the output you can point to. But the 0:40:29.280 --> 0:40:33.400 catalyst was actually the anxiety, and I was like, well, yolo, 0:40:33.600 --> 0:40:37.240 let's try it. The safety profile looks really appealing. The 0:40:37.360 --> 0:40:42.239 actual stimulation is, relatively speaking, pretty low power. It's been 0:40:42.280 --> 0:40:46.680 around for decades. It seems like mostly upside potential. There 0:40:46.680 --> 0:40:48.680 are some risks involved people should be aware of when 0:40:48.719 --> 0:40:52.000 people can search accelerated TMS and so on to find this, 0:40:52.160 --> 0:40:56.359 but all in all attractive for someone who's experiencing in 0:40:56.400 --> 0:41:00.799 my case, the amount of chronic mental anguish. That's what 0:41:01.000 --> 0:41:01.640 kicked it off. 0:41:02.520 --> 0:41:05.040 Yeah, how accessible is that now? 0:41:05.920 --> 0:41:10.520 So TMS itself, let's just say conventional TMS is actually 0:41:11.080 --> 0:41:14.359 quite accessible, much like ketamine clinics. There are fly by 0:41:14.440 --> 0:41:19.440 night operations, so caveat emptor you've got to do your homework. 0:41:20.320 --> 0:41:26.880 But TMS is very widely accessible and often reimbursed by insurance. 0:41:28.160 --> 0:41:32.359 Accelerated TMS, as far as I know, is not reimbursable 0:41:32.400 --> 0:41:35.279 by insurance at the moment. So it is available at 0:41:35.280 --> 0:41:39.360 certain clinics. There's one that I've used called a Kasha 0:41:39.520 --> 0:41:44.800 Clinic or Keisha Clinics in Sunnyville, California. But it's expensive. 0:41:44.960 --> 0:41:45.640 It's expensive. 0:41:45.719 --> 0:41:49.640 It's expensive for the five day. My hope and also 0:41:49.680 --> 0:41:51.400 part of the reason why I volunteered to be like 0:41:51.440 --> 0:41:53.600 one of the first sixty monkeys shot in space with 0:41:53.800 --> 0:41:58.640 the decycle searin this very lotus antibiotic and the one 0:41:58.719 --> 0:42:00.919 day is that if you can pressed the five days 0:42:00.920 --> 0:42:05.600 into one day, suddenly the cost should be much much lower. Yeah, 0:42:05.640 --> 0:42:09.640 of course, dramatically lower, and it's much more accessible because 0:42:10.480 --> 0:42:13.480 not that many people can take a week off of work, 0:42:13.840 --> 0:42:17.239 completely off of work, because your brand will be exhausted 0:42:17.800 --> 0:42:22.080 when you have this treatment. I remember going in for 0:42:22.160 --> 0:42:26.120 my first day of stimulations, got like nine hours of sleep. 0:42:26.160 --> 0:42:27.640 I was feeling like a million bucks. I could do 0:42:27.680 --> 0:42:30.280 jump in jacks all day. Had my first eight minute 0:42:30.280 --> 0:42:32.279 stimulation and I felt like I had just pulled three 0:42:32.320 --> 0:42:35.560 all nighters studying for a test. I was so mentally tired. 0:42:36.000 --> 0:42:38.919 So if you do it, do not have any delusions 0:42:39.320 --> 0:42:42.439 of cranking out fifty minutes of work in between these stimulations. 0:42:42.440 --> 0:42:47.239 Ain't gonna happen. But the one day man, it's it 0:42:47.320 --> 0:42:50.319 could be the future for a lot of people, and 0:42:50.400 --> 0:42:53.560 that is not widely available, but people can do some digging. 0:42:54.000 --> 0:42:56.920 There are clinics, not a lot of them. The two 0:42:57.080 --> 0:43:03.640 main hardware companies our BrainsWay, that's one which I've used. 0:43:03.719 --> 0:43:06.560 I've used both because I'm in my whole stick and 0:43:06.600 --> 0:43:09.160 it's real. It's part of the mission for me as 0:43:10.040 --> 0:43:12.319 being the guinea pig and taking the notes so that 0:43:12.360 --> 0:43:15.320 not everyone has to right just in case there's collateral damage, 0:43:15.320 --> 0:43:20.680 but sometimes there is. BrainsWay has some very very sophisticated hardware, 0:43:20.719 --> 0:43:25.200 and then mag Venture is another one that has very 0:43:25.200 --> 0:43:27.920 well developed target right. As far as I know, those 0:43:27.960 --> 0:43:31.200 are kind of the two front runners. The other that 0:43:31.239 --> 0:43:34.280 I mentioned, which focuses specifically on the one day Ampa Health, 0:43:34.719 --> 0:43:37.000 I have not tested, so I can't speak to that directly. 0:43:37.000 --> 0:43:39.480 There seem to be credible people involved, but I can't. 0:43:39.520 --> 0:43:40.920 I haven't really done the due diligence. 0:43:41.040 --> 0:43:42.840 Yeah, good to know, Good to know. I have so 0:43:42.880 --> 0:43:45.719 many friends and family that was asking and wanting to 0:43:45.760 --> 0:43:48.640 discovers a very very useful insert tim. I wanted to 0:43:48.680 --> 0:43:51.720 switch to some of the philosophical aspects you mentioned earlier, 0:43:51.880 --> 0:43:54.320 like the things that you're fascinated by right now. And 0:43:54.360 --> 0:43:56.440 I was thinking about even as a society, how we 0:43:57.200 --> 0:44:01.600 seem to kind of oscillate between in this work life 0:44:01.600 --> 0:44:05.919 balance to then hustle culture, and it seems that that 0:44:06.320 --> 0:44:09.439 just takes over the conversation for that period in time. 0:44:09.880 --> 0:44:13.600 So rewind back probably five to ten years, and hustle 0:44:13.640 --> 0:44:16.719 culture was the thing. Yeah, work life balance has kind 0:44:16.760 --> 0:44:18.560 of made its comeback now, And then you could look 0:44:18.600 --> 0:44:20.839 back twenty five years and we were talking about work 0:44:20.880 --> 0:44:23.320 life balance when it first kind of probably entered the zeitgeist, 0:44:23.400 --> 0:44:26.960 and it was preceded by this hustle intensity culture or 0:44:27.000 --> 0:44:30.040 whatever it is called then and you're kind of talking 0:44:30.040 --> 0:44:33.480 about this idea of this achievement mindset that you had 0:44:34.000 --> 0:44:36.000 and has been useful, and then now looking at this 0:44:36.360 --> 0:44:39.480 acceptance mindset that you know, you're almost looking at the 0:44:39.560 --> 0:44:42.760 value of both. And I think that's even this whole conversation. 0:44:42.840 --> 0:44:45.200 We're talking about the value of both, or this and this, 0:44:45.440 --> 0:44:48.600 or you know, the connection between old and new and 0:44:48.640 --> 0:44:52.680 being curious. And I've I find that with work life 0:44:52.719 --> 0:44:55.440 balance and hustle culture or achievement let's call it achievement, 0:44:55.440 --> 0:44:59.080 because hustle culture just sounds like working hard without maybe 0:44:59.120 --> 0:45:03.080 any direction. Yeah, but achievement culture and acceptance culture, which 0:45:03.200 --> 0:45:09.040 feel like together they're so synergistic, yet we tend to 0:45:09.160 --> 0:45:12.120 just go between one or the other in different phases 0:45:12.120 --> 0:45:15.080 of our life. Yeah, where are you at with making 0:45:15.120 --> 0:45:17.480 sense of that for yourself and thinking about it for others? 0:45:17.800 --> 0:45:20.960 I'll say something might surprise people. So the first thing, 0:45:21.160 --> 0:45:22.839 as the guy who wrote a book called the four 0:45:22.840 --> 0:45:26.640 hour work Week, I have no problem with eighty hour 0:45:26.719 --> 0:45:30.880 work weeks if they're good reasons behind it. So let me. 0:45:30.920 --> 0:45:34.399 I'll just let that settle for a second, and I'll 0:45:34.400 --> 0:45:37.759 add something that normally I wouldn't add to that, which 0:45:38.000 --> 0:45:41.360 is like read the serenity prayer, the actual serenity prayer. 0:45:41.560 --> 0:45:46.080 Acceptance across the board for everything is effectively becoming a 0:45:46.120 --> 0:45:51.080 cow standing in the rain. That's just complacency, passivity, and 0:45:51.120 --> 0:45:56.399 then completely unrestrained. Achievement is just a greyhound running around 0:45:56.400 --> 0:46:00.239 a track chasing a rabbit. And those dogs can't run 0:46:00.320 --> 0:46:07.520 very long, but they can sprint. So Number one, if 0:46:07.520 --> 0:46:10.160 you can't control or affect something, that probably lands in 0:46:10.200 --> 0:46:13.120 the acceptance bucket, right, which is why I've not had 0:46:13.160 --> 0:46:15.320 social media on my phone for three or four years. 0:46:16.239 --> 0:46:19.960 Doom scrowling not helpful for a million different reasons. I 0:46:20.000 --> 0:46:24.240 know people probably agree with this a face value. Nonetheless, Yeah, 0:46:24.400 --> 0:46:26.839 like let's look at behavior, right, like show me what 0:46:26.880 --> 0:46:28.680 you do and not what you say kind of situation. 0:46:28.719 --> 0:46:32.200 It's like my friends, even some of my most accomplished, 0:46:32.719 --> 0:46:36.960 cheaper friends, these are like megastars within business. I know 0:46:37.040 --> 0:46:41.399 one guy in particular, such a smart guy. He's so good, 0:46:41.480 --> 0:46:45.439 he's got a wonderful family. And he took X off 0:46:45.440 --> 0:46:49.000 his phone a few years ago and it's like he 0:46:49.040 --> 0:46:50.920 went through twenty years of therapy, right. It was like 0:46:50.960 --> 0:46:54.840 a month later, like everything's better. And then I'm in 0:46:54.880 --> 0:46:57.200 a group thread with him and a few months ago 0:46:57.239 --> 0:46:59.160 he started sending links to things on X and I 0:46:59.200 --> 0:47:01.560 was like, uh, oh, you're back on the sauce. 0:47:01.760 --> 0:47:02.600 When did that happen? 0:47:02.640 --> 0:47:04.200 And he's like, oh I got dragged back in this 0:47:04.280 --> 0:47:07.799 says but it's the worst. It's like he's been. It 0:47:07.880 --> 0:47:10.240 just came out of pow camp. Like he's a mess. 0:47:11.080 --> 0:47:14.719 I mean, if you're listening, sorry, I'm not a mess. 0:47:14.760 --> 0:47:17.560 But it's just like it's not an improvement it's a 0:47:17.600 --> 0:47:20.719 worsening of psychological state. Right, So that stuff, it's like, 0:47:20.719 --> 0:47:22.799 if you can't act on it, or if you're not 0:47:22.920 --> 0:47:24.560 going to act on it, that has to go in 0:47:24.600 --> 0:47:27.239 the acceptance bucket or in the ignore button on the 0:47:27.600 --> 0:47:30.759 selective ignorance bucket. Then on the achievement side. For me, 0:47:31.600 --> 0:47:34.239 I would say that as a way of kind of 0:47:34.280 --> 0:47:38.160 setting the table. One of my friends, Josh Waitskin my 0:47:38.239 --> 0:47:41.960 second ever podcast, by the way, he was the basis 0:47:42.000 --> 0:47:44.600 for searching for Bobby Fisher. He's considered a chess prodigy. 0:47:44.640 --> 0:47:47.920 He hates that doesn't really describe him well either, because 0:47:47.960 --> 0:47:51.239 he's become world class, very like top one percent and 0:47:51.280 --> 0:47:55.160 a couple of different disciplines. It's very systematic. But one 0:47:55.239 --> 0:48:00.480 of his guiding tenets maxims is avoid the simmerings. And 0:48:00.520 --> 0:48:03.200 that just means you're either off like you could be 0:48:03.239 --> 0:48:06.280 taken a nap under a set of bleachers or something, 0:48:07.120 --> 0:48:11.680 or you're on like you are the greyhound, right you 0:48:11.719 --> 0:48:15.200 are completely focused and you're in six gear. It's like 0:48:15.239 --> 0:48:18.320 avoid everything in between. Yeah, So avoiding the simmering sex 0:48:19.400 --> 0:48:22.440 and I and a lot of people I think are 0:48:22.480 --> 0:48:26.120 at risk of the gravitational pull of the default, which 0:48:26.160 --> 0:48:29.680 is the simmering sex getting interrupted by text messages and 0:48:29.880 --> 0:48:35.080 emails and responding to everyone else's manufactured emergency and so on. 0:48:35.280 --> 0:48:38.680 That's the simmering sex, and that will just murder you 0:48:39.000 --> 0:48:45.200 psycho emotionally. So for me, I try to really oscillate 0:48:45.360 --> 0:48:51.040 between restfulness or sprint. The fact matter is, as much 0:48:51.040 --> 0:48:53.719 as I would like to think otherwise, Like I'm a 0:48:53.760 --> 0:48:58.040 working dog. I'm like a border collie. Right, if idle 0:48:58.040 --> 0:49:02.640 hands of the Devil's workshop, then you know, by extension, 0:49:02.680 --> 0:49:04.759 it's like you leave a border collie trapped in an 0:49:04.800 --> 0:49:06.719 apartment long enough, it's going to chew the cows, the 0:49:06.800 --> 0:49:09.239 couch to pieces. Yeah, turn into an Eurotic mess. It's 0:49:09.280 --> 0:49:11.360 like a lot of people are like that. I'm like that, 0:49:12.080 --> 0:49:15.239 it's good for me to have a mission a project. 0:49:15.760 --> 0:49:19.400 Me too, Yeah, it's just and I don't think anyone 0:49:19.440 --> 0:49:22.239 needs to apologize for them. Yeah. So for instance, it's 0:49:22.239 --> 0:49:24.480 like with this, I have an eight hundred and fifty 0:49:24.640 --> 0:49:26.560 page draft of a book and it's like, all right, 0:49:26.600 --> 0:49:28.920 well what am I going to do with that beast? 0:49:29.640 --> 0:49:33.719 I'll probably do a retreat where all I do is 0:49:34.640 --> 0:49:38.040 eat a sleep exercise, Right, That's it. And it will 0:49:38.080 --> 0:49:41.080 be full on as many hours a day as I 0:49:41.120 --> 0:49:44.799 can handle every day for a few weeks. Yeah, it's 0:49:44.840 --> 0:49:46.600 not going to be the four hour work week, but 0:49:46.880 --> 0:49:49.880 it was with a It's with an end point, with 0:49:49.960 --> 0:49:54.200 a very precise purpose that I feel good about, that 0:49:54.280 --> 0:49:57.040 I feel aligned with, and that's fine. And then after 0:49:57.080 --> 0:50:01.200 that I will probably bookend it by a book something 0:50:01.320 --> 0:50:04.359 like three to seven days with a handful of close 0:50:04.400 --> 0:50:09.560 friends doing something to just park it in zero. And 0:50:10.320 --> 0:50:14.280 I recognize that exact sequence of events will not apply 0:50:14.320 --> 0:50:18.160 to everybody, But if you just use the mantra of 0:50:18.200 --> 0:50:20.799 avoid the simmering sex, I think you can get a 0:50:20.880 --> 0:50:22.200 lot of mileage out of it. 0:50:22.440 --> 0:50:24.880 Yeah, I like that too. I think you sport on. 0:50:25.480 --> 0:50:28.280 I think that's probably where I've netted out too, because 0:50:28.320 --> 0:50:32.399 I think that simmering six is the distraction and isra 0:50:32.440 --> 0:50:34.520 all the stress and the tension comes from where you're 0:50:34.560 --> 0:50:38.600 trying to balance both at all times perfectly, or get 0:50:38.600 --> 0:50:41.600 distracted by I'm trying to spend time with my family 0:50:41.640 --> 0:50:44.640 but I'm still on my phone, or I'm at work 0:50:44.680 --> 0:50:47.680 and I'm trying to make sure everything's okay at home, right, 0:50:47.960 --> 0:50:51.160 And you're never going to win that way, ever, and 0:50:51.239 --> 0:50:54.080 you have to have these really clear. I was invited 0:50:54.120 --> 0:50:57.800 yesterday was Sunday, and I was invited to a work 0:50:57.840 --> 0:51:00.400 thing like last minute on a Saturday night, and like 0:51:00.520 --> 0:51:02.840 years ago, I would have said yes immediately because I 0:51:02.840 --> 0:51:05.279 thought it was extremely valuable and I needed to be 0:51:05.360 --> 0:51:07.359 there and if I wasn't there, then I'd miss out 0:51:07.400 --> 0:51:10.480 on opportunities. And it was I was saying to my 0:51:10.520 --> 0:51:11.880 wife and I had to say to her only to 0:51:11.920 --> 0:51:14.000 make myself feel better about myself. I was like, I'm 0:51:14.000 --> 0:51:17.200 so proud I said no, because I've like really promised 0:51:17.200 --> 0:51:20.399 myself that my weekends are off time, and that wasn't 0:51:20.400 --> 0:51:22.359 the case in the beginning. And I'm glad it wasn't 0:51:22.360 --> 0:51:24.680 the case because I was sprinting and I needed that 0:51:24.719 --> 0:51:27.560 extra work and that was important and I don't feel 0:51:27.560 --> 0:51:29.440 bad about it. It was the right thing to do. But 0:51:29.840 --> 0:51:31.600 at this point, this was the right thing to do 0:51:31.800 --> 0:51:33.920 to be able to say, well, no, I really want 0:51:33.960 --> 0:51:36.040 a Sunday off. I don't want to run to a 0:51:36.080 --> 0:51:37.279 work thing in the middle of the day, which will 0:51:37.320 --> 0:51:40.200 probably take four hours, and I don't need to. It's 0:51:40.239 --> 0:51:44.920 not an emergency. I'm not solving anything, and yeah, what 0:51:44.960 --> 0:51:47.480 do you think is the biggest Obviously the simmering sixus 0:51:47.480 --> 0:51:49.160 is the obvious answer, But what do you think is 0:51:49.200 --> 0:51:51.879 the biggest thing people come up against when they're trying 0:51:51.920 --> 0:51:54.160 to do on and off, Like, what's the hardest part 0:51:54.160 --> 0:51:57.040 of that? Your friend, for example, who quit X felt 0:51:57.040 --> 0:52:00.120 the benefit, saw the growth, and then gets. 0:52:00.760 --> 0:52:03.040 I think he had too much time on his hands. Right, Okay, 0:52:03.160 --> 0:52:08.560 he's sort of post economic and border Collie. He has 0:52:08.719 --> 0:52:14.200 a lot of time for unusual, rare reasons, right. But 0:52:14.320 --> 0:52:16.879 I would say that if you do not have a 0:52:17.120 --> 0:52:21.200 primary project or mission, and it doesn't mean your job 0:52:21.280 --> 0:52:23.640 has to be something you love twenty four to seven, 0:52:25.040 --> 0:52:27.120 working to live and just having a job that you 0:52:27.160 --> 0:52:29.520 can tolerate that you're good at great Like I actually 0:52:29.560 --> 0:52:32.919 think that's fine. But if, on the other hand, let's 0:52:32.920 --> 0:52:35.840 just say you're an entrepreneur and you're kind of floating around, 0:52:36.200 --> 0:52:39.080 like maybe you have a few cool things you're pursuing, 0:52:39.120 --> 0:52:42.160 but there's no hell yes, kind of along lines of 0:52:42.160 --> 0:52:46.240 Derek Sivers, you're going to be tempted to wander and 0:52:46.320 --> 0:52:49.239 that's how you end up sitting on the toilet looking 0:52:49.280 --> 0:52:51.120 at Instagram and they're like, I can't feel my legs. Oh, 0:52:51.120 --> 0:52:53.160 I've been here forty five minutes, Like that's how that 0:52:53.160 --> 0:52:56.160 that's how that happens. And I've been there, and it 0:52:56.239 --> 0:52:58.960 means you don't have a big enough yes. You need 0:52:58.960 --> 0:53:02.920 a bigger yes yes. And I would say that the 0:53:03.000 --> 0:53:08.560 avoid the simmering sixth though, is unhelpful insomuch as it's 0:53:08.600 --> 0:53:11.120 telling you what not to do, but that doesn't really 0:53:11.120 --> 0:53:12.759 give you a whole lot of directions. So another way 0:53:12.760 --> 0:53:14.680 to frame it is actually quoting a friend of mine, 0:53:14.800 --> 0:53:19.480 Chris saka phenomenal of incredible guy, just like one of 0:53:19.520 --> 0:53:22.040 the best investors I've ever met, his stories and nuts, 0:53:22.920 --> 0:53:28.080 and his question is effectively like, are you living offense 0:53:28.200 --> 0:53:28.720 or defense? 0:53:29.080 --> 0:53:29.279 Right? 0:53:29.400 --> 0:53:32.520 So if you're responding to everyone else's agenda for your 0:53:32.520 --> 0:53:37.600 time in email defense right? If, for instance, I don't 0:53:37.640 --> 0:53:41.000 know when this happened, maybe you've experienced this, but I 0:53:41.000 --> 0:53:45.160 guess people feel so stressed out and short on time 0:53:45.239 --> 0:53:49.239 that a lot of very busy friends of mine are 0:53:49.280 --> 0:53:51.960 now catching up on Sundays. Sundays is like their catch 0:53:52.000 --> 0:53:54.000 up on email day. So all I get texts that 0:53:54.040 --> 0:53:56.960 are like about business stuff, and I just and my 0:53:57.040 --> 0:54:00.800 response has to be for sanity because if I respond, 0:54:00.960 --> 0:54:04.040 if I engage with that, I'm playing defense and breaking 0:54:04.040 --> 0:54:06.839 my own roles in boundaries. So I'm just like, hey, Bud, 0:54:06.880 --> 0:54:09.600 exclamation your point. Sorry, don't do business on weekends, like 0:54:09.719 --> 0:54:11.520 text me again on Monday, Tuesday, whatever. 0:54:11.640 --> 0:54:12.440 Yeah. 0:54:12.480 --> 0:54:15.320 And you know, doctor Sus has this amazing Ted Geisel 0:54:15.400 --> 0:54:18.920 has this amazing quote, those who matter don't mind, and 0:54:18.960 --> 0:54:22.160 those who mind don't matter. Right, It's like, if somebody 0:54:22.200 --> 0:54:25.680 gets pissed off about that, yeah, guess what, you let 0:54:25.719 --> 0:54:28.840 them opt out. And with all my friends, they're like, 0:54:29.120 --> 0:54:32.520 love that cool. Yeah, talk to pass wages. They're fine. 0:54:33.320 --> 0:54:36.200 So I would say aim for offense, not defense. Offense 0:54:36.239 --> 0:54:38.279 means you're deciding on what you want to do, and 0:54:38.360 --> 0:54:41.680 you're applying a certain amount of time or energy towards 0:54:41.719 --> 0:54:45.520 that before you're reactive. You know, Jim Collins, the writer 0:54:45.640 --> 0:54:48.200 of author of Good Degrades and Built to Last and 0:54:48.239 --> 0:54:52.600 these iconic books, he tracks his creative hours and I 0:54:52.680 --> 0:54:55.800 think for every three hundred and sixty five day period, 0:54:55.880 --> 0:54:59.480 he's got to have one thousand and something hours and 0:54:59.520 --> 0:55:02.440 he tracks it daily, and if he's running behind in 0:55:02.480 --> 0:55:04.840 the county, he's like, oh, something's going to change. I 0:55:04.880 --> 0:55:08.040 don't take it to that level, but I try to 0:55:08.920 --> 0:55:13.000 make before I manage in sense, I really try to 0:55:13.040 --> 0:55:18.359 reserve the hours after I wake up for creative work 0:55:18.400 --> 0:55:20.360 to the extent that I can. I actually think I 0:55:20.400 --> 0:55:23.520 do my best creative work incredibly late at night, but 0:55:23.560 --> 0:55:27.080 that is socially incompatible with any type of partner, So 0:55:27.120 --> 0:55:29.480 I've had to switch things around a little bit. 0:55:29.760 --> 0:55:32.480 You have you really, Oh, yeah, that's impressive. 0:55:32.600 --> 0:55:34.960 I mean, for our work week, for our body, for 0:55:35.040 --> 0:55:38.560 our chef, all written between like nine pm and four am. 0:55:38.880 --> 0:55:42.480 I would do research during the day, but the actual synthesis, writing, etc. 0:55:42.920 --> 0:55:44.440 Was all done very very late at night. 0:55:44.560 --> 0:55:46.840 So how have you managed to change yourself to a 0:55:46.880 --> 0:55:47.640 morning person? 0:55:47.960 --> 0:55:49.920 I don't think I am a morning person, right. I 0:55:49.920 --> 0:55:53.720 would say that there are a few things. So one 0:55:53.840 --> 0:55:58.920 is recognizing relationships. Of them are the meat of life. 0:55:59.800 --> 0:56:04.279 If you're vegan or something, it's the sustenance apply. I 0:56:04.320 --> 0:56:08.000 wrote this blog post just went up like five days ago. 0:56:08.239 --> 0:56:11.839 I spent so long putting it together. Called the self 0:56:11.920 --> 0:56:14.879 help trap. Like what I've learned after twenty plus years 0:56:14.880 --> 0:56:18.080 of quote unquote optimizing myself talking about some of this, 0:56:18.120 --> 0:56:21.120 but basically re orienting Maslow's higher give needs, which, by 0:56:21.160 --> 0:56:24.560 the way, Abraham himself never made a pyramid, and he 0:56:25.040 --> 0:56:27.719 added an update to that people are accustomed to thinking 0:56:27.760 --> 0:56:31.560 about self actualization at the top. He actually added self 0:56:31.920 --> 0:56:37.320 transcendence later, and it was always something that was moving 0:56:37.360 --> 0:56:42.640 and shifting. But I have recognized for myself for quality 0:56:42.680 --> 0:56:47.080 of life, for the experience of time dilation, just getting 0:56:47.280 --> 0:56:51.320 more life out of your years, right, not just adding 0:56:51.360 --> 0:56:53.040 more years to your life. We could talk a lot 0:56:53.040 --> 0:56:59.720 about that, relationships, close, friends, family. It sounds so self evident, 0:57:00.000 --> 0:57:04.160 But how many people do we know? Maybe you look 0:57:04.160 --> 0:57:06.440 in the mirror and you see them, who at the 0:57:06.520 --> 0:57:08.080 end of a year, If you ask them, did you 0:57:08.120 --> 0:57:10.520 spend as much time as you would have liked this 0:57:10.640 --> 0:57:14.640 last year with your ten most important relationships, Almost everybody's 0:57:14.680 --> 0:57:18.760 gonna say no. So really taking that on as a 0:57:18.840 --> 0:57:22.680 challenge means if I'm sacrificing twenty percent of my output 0:57:22.720 --> 0:57:28.040 because I'm forcing myself to pretend to cosplay as a 0:57:28.080 --> 0:57:31.800 morning person, Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, Now one could make 0:57:31.840 --> 0:57:36.520 the argument and it's not totally off base that well, 0:57:36.560 --> 0:57:39.000 that's convenient for Tim to say, because you know, you said, 0:57:39.240 --> 0:57:44.640 decades of putting things out that have. Luckily, you've done 0:57:44.640 --> 0:57:49.240 well enough. But I don't think that does hold some water. 0:57:49.320 --> 0:57:52.240 But it doesn't. It doesn't really hold all the water. 0:57:52.280 --> 0:57:54.920 That's not I don't think of real expression. But the 0:57:54.960 --> 0:58:01.320 point is I have through sprinting, right, not ending up 0:58:01.360 --> 0:58:04.560 at the simmering sex over many decades, right, or like 0:58:04.600 --> 0:58:07.080 the simmering seven or eight, which is even worse you're 0:58:07.120 --> 0:58:11.240 running hot. I have burned out so many times that 0:58:11.560 --> 0:58:13.560 coming back to the meditation, right, do less than you 0:58:13.560 --> 0:58:16.080 think you can do. If I dial back, Let's say 0:58:16.080 --> 0:58:19.080 I lose quote unquote lose twenty percent and I don't 0:58:19.120 --> 0:58:22.480 burn out. Well, that's like playing sports and not getting injured. Right. 0:58:22.640 --> 0:58:24.840 If you get injured, you're out for two months, Yeah, 0:58:25.440 --> 0:58:28.160 and then you have three months of rehab. You didn't 0:58:28.200 --> 0:58:31.000 save any time by being intense, Totally, you lost time. 0:58:31.880 --> 0:58:35.720 So I feel like also not being a morning person 0:58:35.840 --> 0:58:38.240 like some folks. I have so many friends they're just like, 0:58:38.280 --> 0:58:42.560 I wake up, I'm on fire, so jealous. Now playing 0:58:42.560 --> 0:58:46.560 with your fuel source can help this, actually, but I 0:58:46.600 --> 0:58:49.360 feel like if even if I have less energy, what 0:58:49.400 --> 0:58:52.880 that means is I just have to be very smart 0:58:52.960 --> 0:58:56.600 and selective about what I apply myself to. So it 0:58:56.640 --> 0:58:59.520 makes me more selected with projects, more focused on what 0:58:59.560 --> 0:59:01.960 I'm trying to because I'm like, all right, friend X 0:59:02.000 --> 0:59:04.280 gets four hours of lightning in a bottle every morning. 0:59:04.640 --> 0:59:07.440 I probably get, yeah, maybe ninety minutes, depending on how 0:59:07.480 --> 0:59:11.320 much cafe and I've had. So I need to make 0:59:11.360 --> 0:59:16.040 those ninety minutes count. Yeah, and that's actually a helpful 0:59:16.240 --> 0:59:17.160 forcing function for me. 0:59:17.360 --> 0:59:20.160 Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yeah. I think going back to 0:59:20.200 --> 0:59:23.200 what you were saying about doom scrolling and screendim I've had. 0:59:23.240 --> 0:59:25.560 I mean, this sounds again so basic, but it is 0:59:25.600 --> 0:59:28.200 the stuff we will struggle with. Like I had to 0:59:28.360 --> 0:59:31.400 really make a commitment that if I was on a screen, 0:59:31.920 --> 0:59:33.640 that I was only on one screen at a time, 0:59:34.440 --> 0:59:37.600 because what I would find was sometimes my wife and 0:59:37.640 --> 0:59:39.200 I would sit down to watch a show in the 0:59:39.280 --> 0:59:44.960 evening and I'm like, there's very little TV that gets 0:59:45.000 --> 0:59:49.160 my attention enough to really commit. Yeah, and I'm not 0:59:49.200 --> 0:59:52.240 someone who generally loves using their time to do that. 0:59:52.920 --> 0:59:55.120 But at the end of a long day of work 0:59:55.160 --> 0:59:57.880 and it's been busy, and we've had dinner together, we've connected, 0:59:57.880 --> 0:59:59.560 and you just kind of want to zone out. I 0:59:59.600 --> 1:00:01.560 don't have the energy. I'm more the other way. I 1:00:01.560 --> 1:00:03.480 have lots of energy in the morning and the evening 1:00:03.520 --> 1:00:05.400 I can hang out with friends or family, but I 1:00:05.400 --> 1:00:07.080 don't do creative work in the evening. I never have, 1:00:07.840 --> 1:00:09.800 and so mine's the opposite where I have less energy 1:00:09.800 --> 1:00:11.640 at that time, and so kind of switching off is 1:00:11.720 --> 1:00:15.080 kind of nice, But switching off and feeling like I 1:00:15.200 --> 1:00:18.640 wasted my off time is not a fun feeling, like 1:00:18.680 --> 1:00:21.200 I enjoy that feeling. So we'd watch a show and 1:00:21.240 --> 1:00:22.919 I wasn't committed, and then I'd be on my phone 1:00:23.000 --> 1:00:24.800 or i'd kind of be on my laptop too, And 1:00:24.800 --> 1:00:27.120 now I haven't achieved anything at work, I haven't doom 1:00:27.200 --> 1:00:30.760 scrolled well enough, and the screen is boring me. And 1:00:30.800 --> 1:00:34.000 now I'm feeling like I'm wasting days. In the evening, 1:00:34.040 --> 1:00:36.320 I'm like adding all these hours up and going, God, 1:00:36.360 --> 1:00:38.560 I wasted like three hours in front of the TV 1:00:38.640 --> 1:00:41.640 and I didn't do anything, and all of a sudden, 1:00:41.800 --> 1:00:45.360 a there was a show selection problem. So we sawted 1:00:45.360 --> 1:00:47.080 that where it was like, Okay, let's find something we 1:00:47.120 --> 1:00:50.160 actually care about watching. But the other part was just Okay, 1:00:50.160 --> 1:00:52.280 I'm going to leave my phone in another room where 1:00:52.280 --> 1:00:54.720 I just can't get it. I don't work at this time, 1:00:54.760 --> 1:00:56.960 so the laptop can't be near me, and I have 1:00:57.000 --> 1:00:59.720 to do this old school thing of like sitting in 1:00:59.720 --> 1:01:01.680 a thing to in my own house, like saying, okay, 1:01:01.680 --> 1:01:03.680 I'm at the movies now, Like what does it feel 1:01:03.760 --> 1:01:06.000 like to go to the movies and watch a movie 1:01:06.000 --> 1:01:07.440 which we all used to do, and go to the 1:01:07.440 --> 1:01:11.440 theater without any other distraction and actually enjoy your experience 1:01:11.480 --> 1:01:16.000 it And it's it's been huge for unlocking presence and 1:01:16.600 --> 1:01:20.479 enjoyment and entertainment even even from a stillness point of view, 1:01:20.560 --> 1:01:22.080 for sure, because I feel like we're not even doing 1:01:22.160 --> 1:01:24.720 rest properly, which is why we can't work properly. 1:01:26.880 --> 1:01:31.600 God. Yeah, well, I was just going to say, I 1:01:31.640 --> 1:01:35.880 mean I am very plugged in to technology in digital right. 1:01:35.960 --> 1:01:40.760 I mean my main business per se is actually angel investing, 1:01:40.800 --> 1:01:42.520 which I've done since two thousand and eight. Like that 1:01:42.680 --> 1:01:49.000 that's actually the larger piece of my professional life from 1:01:49.000 --> 1:01:52.360 like an economic perspective. So I'm constantly involved with tech. 1:01:52.400 --> 1:01:55.680 I lived in the Bay Area for almost twenty years, 1:01:56.760 --> 1:01:59.880 and the people who created these tools, a lot of them. 1:02:00.080 --> 1:02:02.840 In the social dilemma, people can check out, treat it 1:02:02.920 --> 1:02:07.080 like smoking. It is incredibly bad for you, even in 1:02:07.160 --> 1:02:09.800 moderate doses. So what I would suggest to folks, and 1:02:10.000 --> 1:02:12.240 I mention all of that being plugged into text simply 1:02:12.280 --> 1:02:14.600 because if I were amish and I'm like, I don't 1:02:14.640 --> 1:02:16.760 have any social apps on my phone, people are like, well, 1:02:16.800 --> 1:02:19.240 Tim can do it, but that's nonsense. Yeah, because he's 1:02:19.240 --> 1:02:22.320 an edge case like no, no, no. A lot of 1:02:22.360 --> 1:02:24.720 what I do is predicated on knowing what is happening. 1:02:24.960 --> 1:02:25.160 Yeah. 1:02:25.480 --> 1:02:28.560 Same, And I still have no social media apps on 1:02:28.600 --> 1:02:31.680 my phone. And what I would say to folks is, 1:02:32.240 --> 1:02:34.600 even if the counter argument is, well I need it 1:02:34.600 --> 1:02:37.360 for my business, Okay, fine, you can still access through 1:02:37.360 --> 1:02:40.520 a laptop. And guess what. You can still record videos. 1:02:40.880 --> 1:02:43.720 You just have to batch upload them later or schedule 1:02:43.720 --> 1:02:46.960 them in advance. You just can't be self interrupting with 1:02:47.040 --> 1:02:50.440 these apps on your phone. If that is within the 1:02:50.480 --> 1:02:55.880 realm of possibility, pry for two weeks. And my feeling is, 1:02:56.360 --> 1:02:59.680 if you can't do that, if your entire livelihood does 1:02:59.720 --> 1:03:02.640 not depend on it, you're addicted, just like an alcoholic, 1:03:03.680 --> 1:03:06.520 just like a smoker. It means you have a problem, right, 1:03:06.880 --> 1:03:10.240 And I would say, look, I can talk about meditation 1:03:10.520 --> 1:03:13.320 and bioelectric medicine and this and that and the other thing. 1:03:13.760 --> 1:03:16.840 If you just get off of social media for two weeks, 1:03:17.360 --> 1:03:19.640 just like my friend, I think it will basically do 1:03:19.720 --> 1:03:21.720 the same amount of good for a lot of folks. 1:03:21.760 --> 1:03:25.240 It's ten years of therapy if you're constantly tapping a 1:03:25.280 --> 1:03:28.520 vein with social media as you're doing the therapy. Also, 1:03:28.640 --> 1:03:31.680 feelings on caffeine, I think that's also true for cutting down. 1:03:31.520 --> 1:03:33.080 A caffeine Talk to me about that. 1:03:33.440 --> 1:03:35.840 People are like, I'm anxious. I'm like, howmuch coffee you direct? 1:03:35.960 --> 1:03:39.160 They like three to five cups. I'm like, that's liquid anxiety. 1:03:39.880 --> 1:03:44.240 Of course you're anxious. So coming back to the fuel thing, 1:03:44.280 --> 1:03:47.320 maybe it's not a problem solving problem. Yeah, maybe it's 1:03:47.400 --> 1:03:52.400 just a biological issue. H right, Yeah, And caffeine is 1:03:52.400 --> 1:03:55.200 not a fuel, right, It's it's forcing you to use 1:03:55.240 --> 1:03:58.040 your fuel faster. And look, guys, I understand actually how 1:03:58.120 --> 1:04:00.480 chemistry works and the dentizine and so on, but let's 1:04:00.560 --> 1:04:03.440 keep it simple, right, It's not adding fuel to the system. 1:04:03.560 --> 1:04:07.800 It is burning fuel faster. Also has some pretty profoundffects 1:04:07.840 --> 1:04:10.920 on glucose levels too. I fear for we're a CGM 1:04:10.960 --> 1:04:12.640 and you have a bunch of coffee, it's like, oh wow, 1:04:13.120 --> 1:04:16.520 I'm suddenly way out of range. So when people have 1:04:16.560 --> 1:04:19.080 a caffeine crash, it's not necessarily because the caffeine is 1:04:19.120 --> 1:04:21.480 wearing off because you still have trouble sleeping at night. 1:04:21.920 --> 1:04:25.280 It's because your glucose spikes and then crashes. Oh we're 1:04:25.320 --> 1:04:26.439 back to the fuel problem again. 1:04:26.600 --> 1:04:31.520 Yeah, the fuel problem, all roads, all roads, fuel to fuel. 1:04:32.160 --> 1:04:33.680 We're looking for the four hour fuel, but. 1:04:34.320 --> 1:04:38.120 That's got a thousand page. 1:04:38.160 --> 1:04:58.520 Monsters told me that the acceptance piece, like what's been 1:04:58.560 --> 1:05:01.600 the what's been the hot? This thing to wrap your 1:05:01.600 --> 1:05:04.840 head around with acceptance, the idea of acceptance. 1:05:04.360 --> 1:05:08.960 Well, I'll give two examples. The first is that personally 1:05:09.400 --> 1:05:13.480 doing any type of meditation that involves observing rather than 1:05:13.720 --> 1:05:20.040 suppressing or fixing. Right, So, if you have frustration coming up, restlessness, aversion, 1:05:20.640 --> 1:05:23.360 just labeling it and allowing it to be like a 1:05:23.440 --> 1:05:30.000 mother consoling a crying child. That's hard. It's hard, but 1:05:30.120 --> 1:05:32.640 I think it's a valuable practice. So, and that that's 1:05:32.640 --> 1:05:35.680 something that I've explored. There are lots of good apps 1:05:35.720 --> 1:05:38.240 out there. You know. I'm involved with the way so 1:05:38.480 --> 1:05:40.440 and I used it. But prior to getting involved with 1:05:40.480 --> 1:05:43.560 Henry Shuckman. But there are many good options, right, there's 1:05:43.560 --> 1:05:46.040 call nos heads basically lots of different options. But I 1:05:46.040 --> 1:05:52.880 would say that specifically exploring something that cultivates your ability 1:05:53.680 --> 1:05:58.080 to observe things that you would call uncomfortable or negative 1:05:58.280 --> 1:06:02.160 without trying to change them is valuable, all right. The 1:06:02.200 --> 1:06:07.400 second in terms of acceptance is relational humans are crazy, man, 1:06:07.880 --> 1:06:12.200 Like every human's nuts, Like, like irrationality is just table sticks, 1:06:12.800 --> 1:06:15.400 Like we're not, which is why any of them like 1:06:15.440 --> 1:06:19.200 the if the efficient market theory stuff where it's like 1:06:19.200 --> 1:06:21.320 we're all rational agents acting in our own best interest. 1:06:21.400 --> 1:06:23.439 I'm like, have you met have you actually walked out 1:06:23.480 --> 1:06:25.000 economists in humans? 1:06:25.040 --> 1:06:25.240 Like? 1:06:25.680 --> 1:06:31.000 What are you talking about? So in relationships, I'll give 1:06:31.000 --> 1:06:34.680 a resource. There's an audiobook, there's no print version, called 1:06:34.800 --> 1:06:38.960 Fierce Intimacy by Terry Reel, who is an amazing therapist. 1:06:38.960 --> 1:06:41.400 You should have him on the show. That guy's incredible 1:06:42.040 --> 1:06:45.800 and very opinionated, very he does. He's not one of 1:06:45.800 --> 1:06:49.800 those therapists who just echoes questions back and forth. You're like, Terry, 1:06:50.000 --> 1:06:51.120 you know, what do you think? He's like, what do 1:06:51.160 --> 1:06:52.680 you think? Like he doesn't do that. He's like, let 1:06:52.680 --> 1:06:55.320 me tell you like you're being an idiot for these reasons, 1:06:55.320 --> 1:06:57.320 and like you need to grow up because of these reasons. 1:06:57.720 --> 1:07:00.000 He's not exactly like doctor phill or anything, but he's 1:06:59.840 --> 1:07:02.720 he's very very good at what he does and fierce 1:07:02.760 --> 1:07:05.520 intimacy along with his other materials, and he's not the 1:07:05.520 --> 1:07:10.280 only person. The Goatman's are pretty interesting as well. But 1:07:10.640 --> 1:07:16.200 Terry Reel specifically has a number of principles that undergird 1:07:16.880 --> 1:07:20.560 his entire approach, and one of them is, when it 1:07:20.640 --> 1:07:26.880 comes to relationships, objective reality doesn't exist. So, for instance, right, 1:07:28.240 --> 1:07:30.280 he gives this example, I'm gonna butcher it. It's very 1:07:30.280 --> 1:07:32.400 funny when he sells it. He's like, all right, let's 1:07:32.440 --> 1:07:35.800 say husband and wife are out to dinner. Waiter comes over, 1:07:35.960 --> 1:07:38.880 takes the arder walks away, and the husband says to 1:07:38.880 --> 1:07:41.440 the wife, honey, you don't need to yell. And she's like, 1:07:42.080 --> 1:07:44.680 I wasn't yelling, and he's like, yes, you were. And 1:07:45.040 --> 1:07:47.640 you see where this is going, right, And let's just 1:07:47.720 --> 1:07:51.640 suppose and he gives his example. The husband says, well, honey, 1:07:51.840 --> 1:07:53.520 you know, I thought this might come up, so I 1:07:53.560 --> 1:07:59.640 actually hired professional audiologists and brought in recorders and based 1:07:59.680 --> 1:08:03.320 on the level let me show you, in fact, based 1:08:03.360 --> 1:08:06.840 on any conventional definition. You're yelling like, is that gonna help? 1:08:06.960 --> 1:08:07.120 Now? 1:08:07.160 --> 1:08:11.360 Of course it's gonna be disaster. So in terms of 1:08:11.600 --> 1:08:15.880 interacting with the significant other, as this context is describing, 1:08:16.640 --> 1:08:22.440 accepting that we, for each of us, our interpretation of reality, 1:08:22.600 --> 1:08:27.120 our experience of reality is real, and if you try 1:08:27.160 --> 1:08:31.479 to fix it or win the situation by arguing over 1:08:31.479 --> 1:08:33.920 objective reality, it is just a dead end. 1:08:34.320 --> 1:08:35.320 That is what we all do. 1:08:35.439 --> 1:08:36.320 Yeah, that's what we all do. 1:08:37.000 --> 1:08:37.680 All we ever do. 1:08:37.800 --> 1:08:41.240 I think I think men are not to get too gendered, 1:08:41.240 --> 1:08:44.000 but let's call spade a spade. Guys like men are 1:08:44.000 --> 1:08:48.200 particularly bad in terms of habitually doing this. Women do 1:08:48.240 --> 1:08:53.320 it too, but in effect accepting, for instance, someone's upset, 1:08:53.439 --> 1:08:57.160 all right and trying to be curious. And this is 1:08:57.160 --> 1:09:00.040 going to sound like some hand wavy you know, and 1:09:00.120 --> 1:09:02.000 buy us stuff, But it's like trying to be curious 1:09:02.680 --> 1:09:07.519 before you react, right, That is sort of the key piece. 1:09:07.960 --> 1:09:10.559 It also ties into all the productivity. All everything is 1:09:10.600 --> 1:09:12.960 so related, right, It's just like, do you have the 1:09:13.000 --> 1:09:15.040 space to think or are you just reacting to that text? 1:09:15.080 --> 1:09:17.880 On a Sunday, you need the space, and there are 1:09:17.920 --> 1:09:20.040 a lot of ways to cultivate it. One is meditation, sure, 1:09:20.040 --> 1:09:22.760 but it's not the only tool in the toolkit. Right. 1:09:22.800 --> 1:09:24.559 If you're by the way, if you've had three cups 1:09:24.600 --> 1:09:27.160 of coffee and your sympathetic system is an overdrive, what 1:09:27.200 --> 1:09:29.720 are you gonna do. You're gonna bite someone's head off. Yeah, right, 1:09:29.800 --> 1:09:33.160 So that's another lever you can pull. Okay, fuel are 1:09:33.160 --> 1:09:36.880 you depleted? Okay, well let's fix that. And then on 1:09:36.920 --> 1:09:40.479 the relational piece. You gotta practice in the messy reality 1:09:40.520 --> 1:09:42.639 of relationships or it just doesn't count. You can read 1:09:42.640 --> 1:09:44.800 all the relationship books in the world, you gotta practice it. 1:09:44.840 --> 1:09:48.880 And historically, I did not put it mildly. Grew up 1:09:48.880 --> 1:09:52.439 in a household that modeled conflict resolution very well, mind 1:09:53.040 --> 1:09:57.000 lots of yelling and screaming. It was I didn't If 1:09:57.040 --> 1:10:00.280 I learned anything, it was all of the most under 1:10:00.280 --> 1:10:04.000 productive ways to handle conflict, and I carried that into 1:10:04.000 --> 1:10:09.840 my relationships. Surprise, surprise didn't produce miracles of positivity, But 1:10:09.920 --> 1:10:12.479 in the last I'd say ten years have become much 1:10:12.600 --> 1:10:16.800 much better. Oh, Terry real deta gratitude and one of 1:10:16.840 --> 1:10:19.320 my exes who introduced me to Terry, Terry's work, and 1:10:19.360 --> 1:10:22.280 my friend Kevin Rose for that matter. Not to say 1:10:22.360 --> 1:10:24.600 Terry is the end all. Peel just resonated with me, 1:10:24.960 --> 1:10:27.719 just like different people have different parenting styles. Some people 1:10:28.000 --> 1:10:31.639 love doctor Becky Kennedy. I tend to resonate with her stuff, 1:10:31.680 --> 1:10:34.680 but other people resonate with other things. But for me, 1:10:35.080 --> 1:10:37.880 when it comes to to return to your question acceptance, 1:10:38.880 --> 1:10:43.840 man oh man, does that matter a lot in relationships? 1:10:44.240 --> 1:10:47.200 And there are many different iterations of it, so those 1:10:47.240 --> 1:10:49.599 would be two. Right, There's the how do I sit 1:10:49.640 --> 1:10:53.720 with uncomfortable feelings without the necessity of fixing them or 1:10:53.760 --> 1:10:58.040 suppressing them, which, by the way, ties into workholism and 1:10:58.320 --> 1:11:02.040 hustle culture and social media use, compulsive social media use. 1:11:02.160 --> 1:11:04.800 You're like, Hm, I'm bored. I don't like it. I 1:11:04.840 --> 1:11:07.760 need to do actually, yes, yes, Now some people might 1:11:07.800 --> 1:11:10.400 get a little pedantic and say bored isn't a feeling. 1:11:10.560 --> 1:11:12.680 You get the idea, it's an experience. 1:11:12.720 --> 1:11:16.080 You don't like that highlighting and that connectivity that you 1:11:16.120 --> 1:11:18.920 just put together. But the main piece on how the 1:11:18.960 --> 1:11:22.920 objective reality is what we always debate, is fascinating because 1:11:23.479 --> 1:11:26.719 it's the simmering six of relationships like it's the distraction, 1:11:26.840 --> 1:11:32.000 it's the focal point that steals everything away, because that's 1:11:32.080 --> 1:11:34.120 all we ever think is the thing to solve is 1:11:34.120 --> 1:11:37.479 objective reality. When if you accept that that's how that 1:11:37.520 --> 1:11:43.040 person felt in that moment, regardless of whatever objectively you experienced, 1:11:43.200 --> 1:11:46.840 you think objectively you experienced. And that's really hard to 1:11:46.840 --> 1:11:49.640 do because we're so wired to be like, but this 1:11:49.760 --> 1:11:53.960 is the truth, and in relationships there's almost very little truth. 1:11:54.400 --> 1:11:57.719 If perhaps like me, it sounds like like you, you didn't. 1:11:57.840 --> 1:12:01.600 You grew up in a household where like unflicked Haymakers 1:12:01.600 --> 1:12:05.400 were modeled really well, resolution was not modeled well. I 1:12:05.439 --> 1:12:08.360 think his name is Marshall Rosenberg might be getting the 1:12:08.400 --> 1:12:13.479 name wrong. But nonviolent communication, Yeah, read the book. Yes, 1:12:13.800 --> 1:12:16.400 it is schlocky in the sense that there's a format 1:12:16.439 --> 1:12:21.800 and it can feel a little repetitive, but guess what, 1:12:22.680 --> 1:12:27.559 in the beginning, if you're coming from an upbringing that 1:12:27.600 --> 1:12:32.320 didn't teach you anything helpful on the conflict resolution side, 1:12:32.560 --> 1:12:35.800 you need a format, you need a template, and it's 1:12:35.840 --> 1:12:42.080 incredibly incredibly helpful, if only for there's a whole process 1:12:42.120 --> 1:12:43.479 to it. People can just look it up. I'm sure 1:12:43.520 --> 1:12:45.400 Chatgypt or anything else will give you a good overview. 1:12:45.880 --> 1:12:49.200 But at the end, make a request. Don't just bitch 1:12:49.200 --> 1:12:52.559 and moan about how you feel what your partner did. 1:12:53.200 --> 1:12:56.479 Have a request, yeah, yeah, yeah, right, yeah, don't just 1:12:56.479 --> 1:12:59.000 tell them what not to do. That's actually not helpful. 1:12:59.120 --> 1:13:01.840 And I had this driven home. Part of the reason 1:13:01.880 --> 1:13:04.280 I like exploring all these weird different nooks and crannies 1:13:04.640 --> 1:13:06.639 is you realize how much you can copy and paste 1:13:06.640 --> 1:13:07.280 to other places. 1:13:07.360 --> 1:13:07.559 Yeah. 1:13:07.600 --> 1:13:09.800 So a friend of mine, Jason Niemer, he's the co 1:13:09.920 --> 1:13:12.280 creator of something called acro yoga. You know, we're in 1:13:12.280 --> 1:13:15.400 southern California. It's everywhere. So you go to a park 1:13:15.479 --> 1:13:17.479 and you see like people with other people on their 1:13:17.520 --> 1:13:20.200 feet and they're doing all sorts of cool stuff and 1:13:20.680 --> 1:13:23.320 in those circumstances it's basically partner acrobatics. So well, it 1:13:23.360 --> 1:13:26.519 can be pretty chill. If somebody is, say, like standing 1:13:26.560 --> 1:13:32.000 on your hands, saying don't push your heel down is 1:13:32.200 --> 1:13:35.360 very unhelpful and actually kind of dangerous. So instead of that, 1:13:35.400 --> 1:13:39.280 you say more tow more tow right. It's you always 1:13:39.320 --> 1:13:43.000 want to give them direction for what to do, not 1:13:43.040 --> 1:13:45.679 what not to do. And it applies to conflict resolution 1:13:45.760 --> 1:13:50.560 as well, so that the nonviolent communication. And also sometimes 1:13:51.000 --> 1:13:54.679 you can talk about the objective reality, but you can't 1:13:54.720 --> 1:13:57.120 do that when one or more people are dysregulated. 1:13:57.400 --> 1:13:58.400 Yes, you just can't. 1:13:58.439 --> 1:14:01.599 It's not going to work. And that also counts for yourself. 1:14:01.680 --> 1:14:04.280 So sometimes right I'm in a great relationship right now, 1:14:04.320 --> 1:14:06.639 my relationships have never been better like the last few years. 1:14:06.800 --> 1:14:10.280 Every one of my relationships there as they are as 1:14:10.360 --> 1:14:13.920 good as they have ever been better. If I am 1:14:13.920 --> 1:14:17.599 feeling just regulated, maybe I had too much coffee, maybe whatever. 1:14:17.600 --> 1:14:19.880 It might be not to throw coffee into the bus, 1:14:19.960 --> 1:14:23.040 but it is the world's most consumed stimulant. Too little sleep, 1:14:23.640 --> 1:14:25.800 a bunch of bullshit going on on the business side, 1:14:25.960 --> 1:14:29.640 somebody dropped a ball, whatever, And my partner wants to 1:14:29.680 --> 1:14:32.599 talk to me about something. If I'm not resourced, I'll 1:14:32.600 --> 1:14:35.439 just say, babe, I'm happy to talk about this. Let's 1:14:35.479 --> 1:14:39.040 do it at dinner. Yeah, I am really unresourced right now. 1:14:39.600 --> 1:14:41.840 I'm just not in a place to have a good 1:14:41.880 --> 1:14:44.600 conversation about this, and I'm pretty pissed off about a 1:14:44.600 --> 1:14:47.559 few things. Has nothing to do with you, And she's like, okay, cool. 1:14:47.600 --> 1:14:50.320 So you also on either side need to be able 1:14:50.400 --> 1:14:52.880 to agree that that's an option. 1:14:53.200 --> 1:14:56.679 Yeah. Yeah, and the productivity with that. Sometimes I find, 1:14:56.760 --> 1:14:58.920 like I said to my wife, like I've got a 1:14:58.960 --> 1:15:02.559 crazy week coming up to just in advance, I'm just 1:15:02.640 --> 1:15:05.200 letting you know that this week I may not have 1:15:05.320 --> 1:15:07.400 the same space and stillness that I usually have or 1:15:07.439 --> 1:15:09.880 presents that I usually have to deal with something because 1:15:10.000 --> 1:15:12.920 I can prehend how I'm going to feel, yeah, based 1:15:13.000 --> 1:15:15.360 on you know, and luckily, you know, I have a 1:15:15.400 --> 1:15:17.639 partner that understands that. Where I'm like, hey, I'm traveling 1:15:17.680 --> 1:15:19.559 this week. I'm only literally back home for like three 1:15:19.600 --> 1:15:22.680 hours and then I'm back out, and it's like just 1:15:22.760 --> 1:15:25.080 people being aware of what you're weak even looks like 1:15:25.120 --> 1:15:27.600 because we kind of walk around thinking our partners should. 1:15:27.320 --> 1:15:30.120 Know, Well, what does this sound like? God, this sounds 1:15:30.120 --> 1:15:32.720 a lot like what we were talking about with how 1:15:32.720 --> 1:15:35.800 do you get someone to do the two weeks of meditation? Yeah, 1:15:35.880 --> 1:15:38.920 setting expectations. You can have almost anything that you want 1:15:39.000 --> 1:15:42.479 in life if you manage expectations early. 1:15:42.680 --> 1:15:46.720 Yes, yes, exactly. And I think we assume that we 1:15:46.760 --> 1:15:49.439 know our schedule and that our partners should somehow know 1:15:49.560 --> 1:15:51.760 that we have a busy week this week because we're 1:15:51.800 --> 1:15:54.479 coming home like huffing and buffing, or we're like, you know, 1:15:54.520 --> 1:15:56.240 whatever is we're on our phone, We're like, oh god, 1:15:56.240 --> 1:15:57.960 I got to do you know. It's it's almost like 1:15:58.000 --> 1:16:00.559 we're trying to send all these cues without just out 1:16:01.000 --> 1:16:02.920 and just saying, Hey, this is what my week looks 1:16:02.960 --> 1:16:05.639 like and what does yours look like? And I try 1:16:05.680 --> 1:16:07.479 and do that a lot as well. It's fascinating you 1:16:07.520 --> 1:16:10.360 said that we've been asking these questions about life and 1:16:10.400 --> 1:16:15.360 relationships and philosophy, like you know, thousands of yeah, forever, 1:16:15.479 --> 1:16:18.400 but at least documented thousands of years at this point, 1:16:19.000 --> 1:16:22.639 and I feel like we are still somewhat answering asking 1:16:22.680 --> 1:16:26.120 some of the same questions we were mentioning this earlier. 1:16:26.120 --> 1:16:28.760 And I know you actually have a blog that a 1:16:28.800 --> 1:16:31.160 website that allows people to ask these questions. I want 1:16:31.200 --> 1:16:33.720 to ask, what are the questions that are worth answering? 1:16:34.400 --> 1:16:36.760 Because I feel like we ask a lot of questions, 1:16:36.960 --> 1:16:40.240 and now with AI, we're asking more questions than ever before, which, 1:16:40.280 --> 1:16:43.280 by the way, I think is better than the answer 1:16:43.439 --> 1:16:45.960 generation that we grew up in, which was having the 1:16:46.040 --> 1:16:49.160 answer was smart, when we both know that asking the 1:16:49.240 --> 1:16:52.599 right question is smarter, which hopefully AI can help us 1:16:52.640 --> 1:16:54.519 get better at because we all have to get better 1:16:54.600 --> 1:16:58.240 asking questions. But what are the questions that are worth asking? 1:16:58.920 --> 1:17:00.920 Because I just feel like we're just tracked in by 1:17:01.080 --> 1:17:02.839 a set of questions that are not valuable. 1:17:03.000 --> 1:17:05.160 The questions that I keep returning to a lot of them. 1:17:05.200 --> 1:17:07.680 I've borrowed from different sources, right, And I pointed out 1:17:07.720 --> 1:17:10.639 you a book right behind me, Letters from a Stoic 1:17:10.760 --> 1:17:14.920 Seneca the Younger, that's the Penguin's Classic edition. I've probably 1:17:14.920 --> 1:17:18.080 given away one hundred copies of that book. Stoicism and 1:17:18.120 --> 1:17:21.960 Buddhism also a lot of parallels, a lot overlap, one 1:17:22.000 --> 1:17:25.599 would be. And this is actually borrowed from politics. Someone 1:17:25.640 --> 1:17:28.519 who co ran the war room for Bill Clinton put 1:17:28.520 --> 1:17:30.360 this in one of their books bought. I was on 1:17:30.400 --> 1:17:31.720 a road trip and I just grabbed it from you 1:17:31.800 --> 1:17:35.400 his bookstore. But the question stuck with me, which I 1:17:35.400 --> 1:17:37.479 think they got from Newt Gingrish and it's like they 1:17:37.520 --> 1:17:40.600 also are diametrically posed to new politically, but they're like 1:17:40.880 --> 1:17:45.200 he was ruthlessly efficient and effective gaining control of the 1:17:45.200 --> 1:17:47.320 house and blah blah blah. And the question was are 1:17:47.320 --> 1:17:52.240 you hunting antelope field mice? And the story behind it 1:17:52.280 --> 1:17:54.840 is effectively, Like if you're a lion, sure you can 1:17:54.920 --> 1:17:58.800 keep yourself alive by hunting field mice and just eating 1:17:58.840 --> 1:18:02.080 like one hundred a day. Or you could put in 1:18:02.120 --> 1:18:06.400 the energy and the focus to kill an antelope and 1:18:06.439 --> 1:18:08.360 then that lasts you a day or two or three 1:18:08.400 --> 1:18:12.560 or whatever the number might be. And that's a metaphor 1:18:13.840 --> 1:18:15.960 for an effect coming back to what we're talking about, like, 1:18:16.040 --> 1:18:19.240 are you doing a bunch of little micro projects putting 1:18:19.240 --> 1:18:24.040 out fires, living on defense, juggling ten different kind of 1:18:24.040 --> 1:18:26.800 cool projects instead of one big yes? If so, you're 1:18:26.800 --> 1:18:29.360 eating field mice, and it's like that's no way for 1:18:29.400 --> 1:18:32.320 a line to live. You can survive, that's not really living, 1:18:32.640 --> 1:18:35.439 like you need to hunt antelope. So to encapsulate all 1:18:35.520 --> 1:18:37.479 that into one question, so are you hunting antelope art 1:18:37.600 --> 1:18:39.240 or are you hunting field field mice? 1:18:39.320 --> 1:18:41.840 Do you ever hear people who just say, whoa tim jay? 1:18:41.880 --> 1:18:43.880 I don't want to be a lion? You know you 1:18:43.880 --> 1:18:45.519 guys like being lines? You want to be lines? You 1:18:45.560 --> 1:18:47.880 want to go chase antelo Like I don't want to 1:18:47.920 --> 1:18:49.639 be a line. I just want to chase film mice 1:18:50.640 --> 1:18:52.760 like you know, like yeah, and what do you say 1:18:52.800 --> 1:18:54.599 to that? Because I always find it interesting. I feel 1:18:54.640 --> 1:18:58.519 like again, mentally, as a society, we go between you know, 1:18:58.600 --> 1:19:01.680 type A winners. This west is Hey, I just want 1:19:01.720 --> 1:19:03.799 to have my lot in life and be happy. 1:19:03.960 --> 1:19:06.360 I'm glad you Actually you're asking about this because I 1:19:06.360 --> 1:19:10.600 think lion, okay, king of the jungle, et cetera. It 1:19:10.680 --> 1:19:14.120 implies almost that person using the metaphor might want to 1:19:14.120 --> 1:19:19.439 be an apex predator, king of the hill whatever. That's 1:19:19.960 --> 1:19:22.639 an unfortunate side effect maybe of the picture that it paints. 1:19:22.760 --> 1:19:26.719 But the point is coming back to people falling apart 1:19:26.720 --> 1:19:29.360 when they have too much free time. Right. This is 1:19:29.479 --> 1:19:32.680 a huge reason why most retirements fail and people have 1:19:32.800 --> 1:19:35.439 their health go off a cliff as soon as they retire. 1:19:35.520 --> 1:19:40.760 In many cases, it's about knowing what your big thing is, 1:19:41.760 --> 1:19:43.160 having a focus. 1:19:43.400 --> 1:19:45.800 And that's just what we need as humans, planning. 1:19:45.920 --> 1:19:50.519 Psycho emotionally, philosophically, humans are in the meaning making business. 1:19:50.800 --> 1:19:53.719 You can't do that with triaging email. You cannot fool 1:19:53.760 --> 1:19:56.120 yourself into thinking that that is deeply meaningful. There's a 1:19:56.120 --> 1:19:58.000 part of you. They will know it is not, and 1:19:58.040 --> 1:20:02.439 you will suffer accordingly. So that's how I would answer. 1:20:02.320 --> 1:20:04.479 Yeah, I'm I'm glad you went there, because I think 1:20:04.520 --> 1:20:10.200 sometimes achievement mentality gets mixed with meaning making in that 1:20:10.600 --> 1:20:13.439 people assume that, oh, you just there, And there are 1:20:13.520 --> 1:20:15.639 some people who just want to win, right, And that's 1:20:15.680 --> 1:20:17.640 not even to do with meaning. So you could go 1:20:17.720 --> 1:20:19.880 kill a big antelope and still not win because you 1:20:19.920 --> 1:20:21.120 didn't have meaning as a human. 1:20:21.479 --> 1:20:24.519 Well, let me give I'll give a it's not even 1:20:24.560 --> 1:20:27.559 a counter example, it's a compatible example. Let's just say 1:20:27.640 --> 1:20:32.960 it's a kindergarten teacher and her north star is like, 1:20:33.240 --> 1:20:36.240 I'm I want to put as much time as possible 1:20:36.840 --> 1:20:41.160 into whatever makes the lives of these kids better. That's it. Yeah, 1:20:41.680 --> 1:20:45.600 So that is doing is managing the bake sale for 1:20:45.720 --> 1:20:48.880 the PTA. Adding to that, if those aren't the parents 1:20:48.920 --> 1:20:52.360 of your students, No, it's not therefore to know. Right, 1:20:52.640 --> 1:20:56.519 is responding to email from friends or texts from friends, 1:20:56.600 --> 1:20:59.880 or are asking you to go out to have drinks 1:21:00.000 --> 1:21:02.160 on Wednesday night going to contribute to that? No, it's 1:21:02.160 --> 1:21:04.840 actually gonna be kind of productive. No, Right, you can 1:21:04.840 --> 1:21:07.080 still have fun. I'm not saying don't have fun, but 1:21:07.760 --> 1:21:11.240 you can have a north star. By the way, it 1:21:11.240 --> 1:21:14.360 doesn't have to be one thing forever. That can be 1:21:14.479 --> 1:21:17.080 very intimidating, like what is my purpose in life? What 1:21:17.200 --> 1:21:22.160 is my what is my mission? It doesn't have to 1:21:22.240 --> 1:21:25.840 be this permanent thing for me. It generally isn't for me. 1:21:25.920 --> 1:21:29.559 It's it's like, I mean, I do have overarching things 1:21:29.600 --> 1:21:33.760 that guide in my behaviors values, but I will just 1:21:33.880 --> 1:21:38.559 go completely immersive into filling the blank bielectric medicine for 1:21:38.600 --> 1:21:41.519 six months. That's it. That's all I care about. How 1:21:41.520 --> 1:21:44.400 do I translate that into something usable in the real 1:21:44.439 --> 1:21:48.240 world or you know, for like supporting science related to 1:21:48.520 --> 1:21:51.680 psychedelic assisted therapies and starting twenty fifteen, like for a 1:21:51.720 --> 1:21:54.160 long time, that was it. And if people are like, well, 1:21:54.200 --> 1:21:55.800 I want you to do policy work or this that 1:21:55.960 --> 1:21:59.080 related to it, I'm like, nope, it's not my power zone. 1:21:59.400 --> 1:22:01.840 Like I am focused on the science, okay, And I 1:22:01.880 --> 1:22:04.960 made it's supporting the science, not capitalizing on it. So 1:22:04.960 --> 1:22:06.719 I had to rule like no investing in for profit 1:22:06.720 --> 1:22:11.200 companies related to psychedelics. Not that that makes someone we 1:22:11.240 --> 1:22:13.800 need those, But I was like, for me, that's a 1:22:13.800 --> 1:22:16.720 hard boundary, right, Okay, Great, I feel like I've kind 1:22:16.720 --> 1:22:18.920 of done what I set out to do in that world. 1:22:19.080 --> 1:22:22.400 So I've largely stopped I'm out. I passed the baton. 1:22:22.479 --> 1:22:24.439 Let other people do it. So it doesn't have to 1:22:24.439 --> 1:22:28.160 be forever. It doesn't have to be some grand giant thing. 1:22:28.800 --> 1:22:30.679 It could be teaching your kids. 1:22:30.800 --> 1:22:32.200 Yeah, it's focused, it's central. 1:22:32.360 --> 1:22:35.080 It could be for instance, for me, now, if I 1:22:35.160 --> 1:22:40.000 consider doing adding, I mean, I'm a promiscuous activity adder. 1:22:40.080 --> 1:22:42.840 I love hobbies and I'm just all over the place. 1:22:43.439 --> 1:22:48.519 And now that really focused on my current relationship that's 1:22:48.560 --> 1:22:53.960 going incredibly well, thankfully right fingers crossed. And I borrowed 1:22:53.960 --> 1:22:55.880 this from a friend of mine, Kelly Starrett, who's an 1:22:55.880 --> 1:22:58.800 amazing performance coach and PT. But at one point he 1:22:58.840 --> 1:23:01.479 told me, because he also does tons of activities, he said, 1:23:02.200 --> 1:23:06.160 he's only adding new activities that consumed time, physical activities 1:23:06.479 --> 1:23:08.400 that he can do with his wife or kids. Yeah, 1:23:08.560 --> 1:23:11.840 that's it, no solo activities. It's like, wow, what a 1:23:11.840 --> 1:23:15.600 great forcing function. Okay, cool. So with my partner, that's it. 1:23:15.600 --> 1:23:18.120 It's like what can we do together? And you can 1:23:18.200 --> 1:23:20.840 change your mind six months later it's like, Okay, for now, 1:23:21.280 --> 1:23:25.600 that's it. Only adding new time consuming hobbies if I 1:23:25.600 --> 1:23:29.479 can do them with her, that's that's a great question. 1:23:29.680 --> 1:23:32.519 That's it that I think counts as a big yes. 1:23:32.640 --> 1:23:38.400 Yes, yes, so that's a great question. Yeah, yes, that's one. 1:23:38.880 --> 1:23:41.840 You know. Another one which I think about and have 1:23:41.960 --> 1:23:45.040 been thinking more and more about, is what if I 1:23:45.080 --> 1:23:49.160 could only fix this? Only fix this is even tricky 1:23:49.360 --> 1:23:53.320 with achiever types. What if I could only subtract instead 1:23:53.320 --> 1:23:56.719 of ad All? Right, So I'm sure this is true 1:23:56.760 --> 1:24:00.200 just about everywhere with humans. But you have some type 1:24:00.240 --> 1:24:03.320 of medical issue where you're trying to achieve X. You 1:24:03.360 --> 1:24:06.320 want to add things. What new software can I use? 1:24:06.479 --> 1:24:11.280 What new magic supplement can I take? Ad ad ad? 1:24:11.760 --> 1:24:11.960 Right? 1:24:12.439 --> 1:24:15.040 What books can I read? Well? What if you turn 1:24:15.160 --> 1:24:17.040 all that around? You're like, what if I could only 1:24:17.080 --> 1:24:19.960 achieve whatever the goal is, or solve the problem by 1:24:20.640 --> 1:24:25.080 stopping reading certain categories of thing, example, given getting rid 1:24:25.120 --> 1:24:28.680 of your social media? Right? What if this is not 1:24:28.760 --> 1:24:34.840 medical advice, just informational example. But I am incredibly I 1:24:34.880 --> 1:24:41.080 think intermittent fasting and fast mimicking diets are incredibly undervalued, 1:24:41.360 --> 1:24:43.479 incredibly undervalued, So. 1:24:43.720 --> 1:24:45.760 Cutting food out could be better than figuring out the 1:24:45.800 --> 1:24:46.040 right thing. 1:24:46.080 --> 1:24:48.200 This is a harder conversation to have with doctors because 1:24:48.200 --> 1:24:50.559 they're generally in the business of adding. Because I only 1:24:50.560 --> 1:24:54.200 get eleven minutes on average propatient the US. Right. But 1:24:54.680 --> 1:24:57.639 for instance, you know I've seen it's like I could 1:24:57.680 --> 1:25:00.840 take trizepetite or GLP one to try to and there 1:25:00.920 --> 1:25:03.519 might be some reasons for it neurow protection and so on. 1:25:03.600 --> 1:25:06.080 But I could do that to try to get my 1:25:06.160 --> 1:25:10.639 metabolic health under control. But I could also do intermittent fasting, 1:25:11.080 --> 1:25:15.280 which is portable proven right. Humans have been going periods 1:25:15.320 --> 1:25:18.800 of that food for a very very long time, since 1:25:19.120 --> 1:25:22.400 since before we were humans so to speak, Homo sapiens. 1:25:22.560 --> 1:25:25.680 And the changes that you see with something like and 1:25:25.800 --> 1:25:28.479 just to defy what I'm talking about specifically, in my case, 1:25:28.880 --> 1:25:32.880 intermittent fasting would be sixteen hours of fasting, eight hour 1:25:33.160 --> 1:25:36.320 feeding window, and generally within that eight hour feeding window, 1:25:36.320 --> 1:25:41.000 I'm having two big meals. That's it, and it's Mark 1:25:41.360 --> 1:25:44.639 Mattson is a scientist, m attsn who's done a lot 1:25:44.640 --> 1:25:46.639 on this. But you want to have at least sixteen 1:25:46.680 --> 1:25:49.600 hours so that you deplete your liver of glycogen and 1:25:49.640 --> 1:25:53.599 then your body develops the machinery to turn on key 1:25:53.600 --> 1:25:57.599 tones more effectively. Right, But you do that. I mean, 1:25:57.600 --> 1:26:01.120 my entire family has insulin insensitivity. We have a lot 1:26:01.120 --> 1:26:04.360 of wonky genetics for this stuff. And if you're getting 1:26:04.400 --> 1:26:07.880 regular testing, don't just do fasting glucose, get your insulin measured, 1:26:07.960 --> 1:26:10.840 and also do an oral glucose tolerance test. There's a 1:26:10.840 --> 1:26:12.960 lot more it should test, but at least hit those 1:26:12.960 --> 1:26:16.559 three And after four to six weeks of interrint fasting 1:26:17.520 --> 1:26:19.599 number one, all of my energy dips that I used 1:26:19.600 --> 1:26:22.400 to remedy with caffeine gone, like completely gone, but just 1:26:22.439 --> 1:26:25.479 sustained energy. And when I woke up, I was awake, 1:26:25.720 --> 1:26:29.559 all right. One of the benefits of ketones and my 1:26:30.360 --> 1:26:34.280 lab work the oral glucose tolerance test. My doctors are 1:26:34.320 --> 1:26:38.400 like a plus plus four to six weeks. It's nothing 1:26:39.040 --> 1:26:41.920 is nothing. It's also well we can come to we 1:26:42.000 --> 1:26:44.960 want to talk about asceticism, and just like the actual 1:26:45.920 --> 1:26:49.080 I think values that are a little more esoteric, like 1:26:49.160 --> 1:26:51.400 fasting and stuff abstaining. I think there's a lot to it. 1:26:51.760 --> 1:26:54.439 Q Seneca. It's got a lot on that. But what 1:26:54.479 --> 1:26:57.280 if you could only subtract And you could do that 1:26:57.320 --> 1:26:59.280 also by looking at what you're spending your time on, 1:26:59.439 --> 1:27:02.760 like do an A eight twenty analysis, but identify the 1:27:02.840 --> 1:27:07.240 peak energy drainers in terms of activities people et cetera. Okay, 1:27:07.280 --> 1:27:09.120 what if you jut you could only remove you can't 1:27:09.120 --> 1:27:09.839 add more stuff. 1:27:09.960 --> 1:27:11.800 Yeah, that's a great question. 1:27:11.680 --> 1:27:15.800 Right, So how do you develop a system to block 1:27:15.880 --> 1:27:16.880 or say no to these things? 1:27:17.120 --> 1:27:17.559 Totally? 1:27:17.720 --> 1:27:22.200 Okay? Subtraction, subtractions, sub question. As a flip, I would 1:27:22.240 --> 1:27:26.160 say on the default, very helpful. Similarly, you could ask 1:27:26.920 --> 1:27:31.880 whatever your common practice is or whatever rule you have 1:27:31.960 --> 1:27:33.920 in place, like what if I did the opposite for 1:27:33.920 --> 1:27:36.720 forty eight hours or a week? This? What if I 1:27:36.760 --> 1:27:38.599 did the opposite? I think is very powerful. 1:27:38.680 --> 1:27:40.400 Give me an example of something that you could flip 1:27:40.479 --> 1:27:40.920 that way. 1:27:41.120 --> 1:27:45.280 My first job out of college was as a technical 1:27:45.360 --> 1:27:48.200 sales guy at a mass data storage company. So we're 1:27:48.240 --> 1:27:50.920 selling at the time. I mean, it's laughable now, but 1:27:51.040 --> 1:27:54.519 you know PATA bytes, Oh my god, of these network 1:27:54.600 --> 1:27:59.439 storage systems to movie studios and National Geologic Survey and 1:27:59.520 --> 1:28:02.559 so on. All of the experienced sales guys got in 1:28:02.560 --> 1:28:05.280 the office. Whenever they got in the office, it's called nine, 1:28:05.600 --> 1:28:09.840 and then from nine to five they're sending emails and 1:28:09.880 --> 1:28:13.759 making cold calls, right trying to reach CTOs and CEOs mostly. 1:28:14.720 --> 1:28:18.479 And I was having terrible results doing this, and most 1:28:18.520 --> 1:28:20.760 of them were having terrible results, but that's how they 1:28:20.760 --> 1:28:22.639 did it. So what do I know. I'm fresh out 1:28:22.640 --> 1:28:25.320 of college, so I was just copying them. And at 1:28:25.360 --> 1:28:28.760 some point I'm like, this sucks and I'm almost I 1:28:28.800 --> 1:28:30.360 was one of the lowest paid people in the company. 1:28:30.400 --> 1:28:32.840 I'm like, I'm living in a very expensive part of 1:28:32.840 --> 1:28:35.599 the country. This is in the Bay Area, Like I'm 1:28:35.640 --> 1:28:37.960 eating a jack in the box for God's sake, like 1:28:38.160 --> 1:28:40.680 through the drive through, Like I need to if I'm 1:28:40.680 --> 1:28:42.280 going to make more money with commissions, I need to 1:28:42.320 --> 1:28:44.880 solve this. So I was like, all right, what if 1:28:44.920 --> 1:28:47.240 I did the opposite. What's the opposite? Don't make any 1:28:47.240 --> 1:28:47.959 calls between. 1:28:47.760 --> 1:28:48.200 Nine to five? 1:28:48.240 --> 1:28:51.640 Yeah, okay? And I started making calls between seven and 1:28:51.800 --> 1:28:54.960 nine and then from five to seven. And what I 1:28:54.960 --> 1:28:57.439 figured out very quickly is that part of the reason 1:28:57.600 --> 1:29:00.320 the results were so bad between nine to five is 1:29:00.360 --> 1:29:02.880 CTOs and CEOs are busy. Of course they are, so 1:29:02.880 --> 1:29:06.920 they have gatekeepers, they have bulletproof vests in the form 1:29:07.040 --> 1:29:11.400 of people who say no, and those people are usually 1:29:11.439 --> 1:29:14.640 gone before nine and they've gone after five. And so 1:29:14.720 --> 1:29:18.920 I had multiple experiences of calling pretty large companies and 1:29:19.760 --> 1:29:22.880 literally the person who answered the phone like a receptionist 1:29:22.960 --> 1:29:24.200 was the president or see of that. 1:29:24.200 --> 1:29:25.000 That's crazy. 1:29:25.320 --> 1:29:27.160 Within the span of I want to say, two or 1:29:27.200 --> 1:29:30.280 three months, two very large competitors who had New York 1:29:30.320 --> 1:29:33.840 and LA offices, I sold. I outsold all of our 1:29:33.920 --> 1:29:36.360 large competitor, which I think it was publicly traded even 1:29:36.400 --> 1:29:40.840 then outsold their entire offices combined well by doing what 1:29:41.320 --> 1:29:42.240 just by doing the opposite? 1:29:42.360 --> 1:29:44.840 Yeah, because if it's not working, yeah, it's not working, 1:29:44.880 --> 1:29:45.519 try the opposite. 1:29:45.560 --> 1:29:47.599 And if that doesn't work, okay, you try something else. 1:29:47.720 --> 1:29:48.480 Yeah. 1:29:48.560 --> 1:29:51.519 I mean with the podcast for instance, like everybody, almost 1:29:51.600 --> 1:29:55.080 everybody even still today offers advertisers net thirty terms net 1:29:55.120 --> 1:29:57.240 sixty terms. For people who don't know what that means, 1:29:57.240 --> 1:29:59.080 that means that you run the ad, they don't pay 1:29:59.080 --> 1:30:01.559 for it for thirty to six days, and that can 1:30:01.600 --> 1:30:04.080 create a lot of complexity because you need someone to 1:30:04.160 --> 1:30:06.439 chase them down. There are going to be people who relate. 1:30:06.880 --> 1:30:10.240 There are lots of invoices and accounts, payable accounts, receivable, 1:30:10.280 --> 1:30:13.960 there's all sorts of shenanigans that goes on. And I 1:30:14.000 --> 1:30:15.880 was like, all right, well, what's the opposite prepayment? That's 1:30:15.880 --> 1:30:18.799 it everybody papas, Yeah, what does that look like okay. 1:30:19.120 --> 1:30:22.719 And another maxim I guess of mine is like, try 1:30:22.760 --> 1:30:25.559 the ideal thing first. Yeah, you can always do the 1:30:25.560 --> 1:30:27.920 standard later, or you can do the complicated thing later. 1:30:28.520 --> 1:30:30.320 But like what would my dream be. My dream would 1:30:30.320 --> 1:30:33.240 be people pay in advance and was able to make 1:30:33.280 --> 1:30:34.920 it work, And I was like, wow, well I'm glad 1:30:34.960 --> 1:30:35.679 we tried that first. 1:30:36.000 --> 1:30:36.800 Yeah. 1:30:36.880 --> 1:30:39.400 And there are a lot of examples like that. 1:30:39.720 --> 1:30:41.920 These are great questions and everyone can find them. 1:30:41.960 --> 1:30:45.000 That Tim dop blog is the website. There are literally 1:30:45.040 --> 1:30:48.080 thousands of pages of free stuff. If you go to 1:30:48.160 --> 1:30:51.479 Tim dop blog slash seventeen however you want to spell 1:30:51.520 --> 1:30:53.519 it the number or spell it out, and that there's 1:30:53.560 --> 1:30:56.720 a PDF with like seventeen of these questions. And I 1:30:56.800 --> 1:30:58.840 use them all the time. I still use them all 1:30:58.840 --> 1:30:59.160 the time. 1:30:59.280 --> 1:31:01.000 When you say older, do you have a regimen of 1:31:01.080 --> 1:31:03.280 how often you reason or just whenever it feels right? 1:31:03.320 --> 1:31:07.120 Like it's it's more when they feel right, So I 1:31:07.120 --> 1:31:10.639 would say most most frequently. It's like if if I'm 1:31:10.680 --> 1:31:13.559 starting to gry my teeth or just wake up and 1:31:13.560 --> 1:31:19.559 I've got the type of grown like, probably time to 1:31:19.560 --> 1:31:24.439 break out the tool. Something is not something shafing, Yes, yes, 1:31:27.439 --> 1:31:31.960 or on the flip side, for instance, I have one 1:31:32.040 --> 1:31:35.880 or two startups that I'm going to be getting involved with, 1:31:36.520 --> 1:31:40.040 and they're going to be very exciting, big commit projects, 1:31:40.520 --> 1:31:43.439 and it's like, Okay, these are going to be very 1:31:43.439 --> 1:31:47.439 fast moving, very competitive. Let me test a whole bunch 1:31:47.439 --> 1:31:51.560 of assumptions about these industries, because I'm advising typically to 1:31:52.080 --> 1:31:56.240 be helpful, and I will pull these questions out, like 1:31:56.280 --> 1:31:58.800 what does everyone say you need to do? Okay, is 1:31:58.800 --> 1:32:01.800 there anything to support that? Or like science, is it 1:32:01.920 --> 1:32:04.240 just that somebody did that first and then everybody else 1:32:04.280 --> 1:32:05.719 copied and they're like, well, that's just how it works, 1:32:06.479 --> 1:32:09.960 which is usually the case. Yeah, okay, you know what 1:32:10.120 --> 1:32:12.720 is doing the opposite? Look like what might that look like? 1:32:13.200 --> 1:32:15.439 And eighty percent of it's going to get thrown out, 1:32:15.439 --> 1:32:17.519 But you don't need one hundred percent. Yeah, you just 1:32:17.560 --> 1:32:21.040 need one or two little levers. So I use it 1:32:21.080 --> 1:32:21.880 for the good stuff too. 1:32:22.120 --> 1:32:24.760 Yeah. No, I love that. I love having a core 1:32:24.880 --> 1:32:28.080 base of questions to come back to rather than just 1:32:28.160 --> 1:32:33.000 reminders or reflections or yeah, questions just great because you 1:32:33.120 --> 1:32:35.880 can you can usually tell straight away that you've been 1:32:35.960 --> 1:32:37.160 chasing too many field. 1:32:36.920 --> 1:32:40.919 Mice exactly, and what I like about that is it's 1:32:41.320 --> 1:32:43.160 you know, I've tried for myself over time to make 1:32:43.200 --> 1:32:46.559 these questions like tighter and tighter. Yeah, and tighter, because 1:32:46.720 --> 1:32:49.760 when I'm running around, even if I'm not journaling, if 1:32:49.760 --> 1:32:51.639 I'm just sitting on a train ride or a plane 1:32:51.640 --> 1:32:54.519 and I'm thinking to myself, Man, why am I so 1:32:54.640 --> 1:32:55.280 stressed out? 1:32:55.640 --> 1:32:55.880 Yeah? 1:32:56.200 --> 1:32:59.960 I have other tools that I'll use. People might be 1:33:00.000 --> 1:33:01.639 from some of them from the four hour work week, 1:33:01.640 --> 1:33:04.759 and I didn't create them, like eighty twenty analysis, et cetera. Yeah, 1:33:04.920 --> 1:33:07.639 calendar reviews, passed your reviews, all that stuff. Fear setting. 1:33:08.240 --> 1:33:10.960 But you can just sit there and look out the 1:33:10.960 --> 1:33:13.240 window and ponder some of these questions and then you're 1:33:13.240 --> 1:33:16.960 like mmmmm yeah, too many field mice. Yeah, too many 1:33:17.000 --> 1:33:21.559 field mice. I'm always slightly hungry. Why right, Existentially there's 1:33:21.560 --> 1:33:23.240 some malais why I'm eating field mice. 1:33:23.479 --> 1:33:25.559 Yeah, it's it's when we're when we were walking over 1:33:25.600 --> 1:33:27.439 to the studio and we were talking on the way 1:33:27.439 --> 1:33:29.559 and I was saying, yeah, like I feel like this 1:33:29.720 --> 1:33:32.240 is finally a year where I'm know what to say 1:33:32.280 --> 1:33:34.479 no to, what to say, Right, It's it's that I 1:33:34.520 --> 1:33:35.960 didn't ask you in that way, And I love that 1:33:36.080 --> 1:33:38.560 language for it because it was that I was. I 1:33:38.640 --> 1:33:42.479 spent years over committing, under committing, not no, you know 1:33:42.520 --> 1:33:44.479 all that kind of all the all the versions of it, 1:33:44.560 --> 1:33:47.040 like you just said, like do the ideal, do the opposite, 1:33:47.439 --> 1:33:50.400 and figure it out and then and then you start going, Okay, no, 1:33:50.479 --> 1:33:53.599 I'm finally found a flow through asking these questions, and yes, 1:33:53.640 --> 1:33:56.559 what the flow will be just disrupted again by something else, 1:33:56.880 --> 1:33:58.960 and those questions will become valuable again, and. 1:33:58.880 --> 1:34:01.719 So yeah, you're never it's set it and forget it exactly. 1:34:01.800 --> 1:34:02.799 Yeah, And that's why. 1:34:02.760 --> 1:34:06.040 It's like meditating or weightlifting or whatever. I guess it's 1:34:06.040 --> 1:34:07.720 a practice, so you come back to it. 1:34:07.840 --> 1:34:26.320 Yeah. I also find like if you just get good 1:34:26.360 --> 1:34:28.720 at what if you can figure out the process of 1:34:28.800 --> 1:34:32.200 doing one thing, well, that process usually helps you do 1:34:32.320 --> 1:34:34.760 multiple things. Well, that's all the same, right as far 1:34:34.760 --> 1:34:37.160 as I don't feel that way, Like, yeah, for sure. 1:34:37.240 --> 1:34:39.320 It's easy to lose sight of that, right, Yes, Like 1:34:39.439 --> 1:34:43.799 I was just in New Mexico doing a short meditation retreat, 1:34:44.080 --> 1:34:47.360 which I find helpful. Nothing like what you've done, but sure, 1:34:47.560 --> 1:34:51.080 sure A little check in with some teachers and one 1:34:51.120 --> 1:34:54.519 of the meditation teachers. Valerie at Mountain Cloud in San Fe, 1:34:54.600 --> 1:34:58.479 New Mexico, used to be a very high level, like 1:34:58.600 --> 1:35:00.400 world class player. 1:35:00.560 --> 1:35:00.920 Yeah. 1:35:01.080 --> 1:35:04.000 She and I were comparing notes on, in her case, flute, 1:35:04.040 --> 1:35:05.920 and then I used to compete in archery, and we're 1:35:05.960 --> 1:35:10.040 comparing notes, and I realized, holy shit, I totally I 1:35:10.080 --> 1:35:12.040 was having some challenges with meditation. I was having a 1:35:12.040 --> 1:35:13.559 really hard time at this treat I was just like, 1:35:13.760 --> 1:35:17.960 really frustrated a lot of the time. And I thought 1:35:17.960 --> 1:35:22.840 to myself, Oh wow, her discussing flute made me think 1:35:22.880 --> 1:35:25.080 of archery, and they are all of these things from 1:35:25.160 --> 1:35:27.599 archery that I can just copy and paste directly into meditation. Yes, 1:35:27.800 --> 1:35:30.880 and then literally right after that the next three sits 1:35:31.200 --> 1:35:34.439 totally different world. And I was like, Wow, how funny 1:35:34.479 --> 1:35:38.320 it is that even at this point, after making a 1:35:38.400 --> 1:35:42.760 career of drawing parallels between fields, I had sat there 1:35:42.760 --> 1:35:44.560 and I'm like, I need to get better at meditating 1:35:44.600 --> 1:35:47.200 and hadn't even looked in other areas of my life 1:35:47.200 --> 1:35:48.200 to copy and paste. 1:35:48.439 --> 1:35:50.360 Literally, Yeah, I love a dummy. 1:35:50.520 --> 1:35:51.679 God, come on, Faris. 1:35:51.920 --> 1:35:53.439 I got like that all the time I was. I 1:35:53.479 --> 1:35:56.800 was this recently I got I mean not that I 1:35:56.800 --> 1:35:58.559 I'm not even sure if I'm going to do it 1:35:58.600 --> 1:36:00.519 for real. But it was like I got sent an 1:36:00.600 --> 1:36:03.800 audition for an acting gig and it was interesting, the 1:36:03.880 --> 1:36:05.160 role was interesting, and I was like, oh, this is 1:36:05.160 --> 1:36:06.400 a bit of flaring, this is a bit of fun, 1:36:06.479 --> 1:36:08.920 like let's see and then like all the like fear 1:36:09.040 --> 1:36:11.880 came in around, like what if I do and I fail, 1:36:11.960 --> 1:36:14.120 and like what if I send an audition tape and 1:36:14.160 --> 1:36:16.600 I look like a fool and what if someone like 1:36:17.120 --> 1:36:19.320 sees this and then thinks all my other stuff isn't 1:36:19.400 --> 1:36:21.519 you know what all the stuff that And I was 1:36:21.520 --> 1:36:23.320 like wait, ant, like why am I And I was like, oh, 1:36:23.360 --> 1:36:25.559 of course I'm scared because I haven't got a coach 1:36:26.120 --> 1:36:29.200 and I haven't done any classes to see if I 1:36:29.240 --> 1:36:32.040 even enjoy it or like it. And I haven't even 1:36:32.080 --> 1:36:35.360 done the scales version of like you know, making different faces. 1:36:35.720 --> 1:36:37.960 And then and then I got a coach and it 1:36:38.000 --> 1:36:41.479 was like within hours, I was like, oh, I could 1:36:41.560 --> 1:36:43.280 do this. I could give it a go if I 1:36:43.320 --> 1:36:45.439 wanted to, Like I could give an audition, not saying 1:36:45.439 --> 1:36:47.799 I could get the role. I could do the audition 1:36:48.240 --> 1:36:50.720 with a little bit of confidence because now I had 1:36:50.720 --> 1:36:53.280 a system and I had tools and the coach woul 1:36:53.280 --> 1:36:55.360 talk about how like he was like, you know, if 1:36:55.400 --> 1:36:57.000 you're doing theater, you've got to be able to like 1:36:57.240 --> 1:36:59.200 be big, and he goes, so I always try and 1:36:59.200 --> 1:37:01.479 get everyone to be a ten. And so you started 1:37:01.560 --> 1:37:04.559 a ten and then for TV you rolled that emotion 1:37:04.720 --> 1:37:05.120 back down. 1:37:05.160 --> 1:37:07.880 I'm so intro of this is like my nightmare. Well 1:37:07.880 --> 1:37:09.599 I remember doing a little bit of TV way back 1:37:09.600 --> 1:37:11.840 in the day and they're like, okay, just more energy, 1:37:11.920 --> 1:37:13.960 more energy, and they did. They kept telling me more energy, 1:37:14.000 --> 1:37:16.439 and I'm just like, bro, maybe this isn't for. 1:37:16.439 --> 1:37:20.200 Me, but for me it was the technique. It was 1:37:20.240 --> 1:37:23.120 like really helpful to go. He's like acted as a ten, 1:37:23.560 --> 1:37:26.000 and then for TV you'd roll it back into a temple. 1:37:26.240 --> 1:37:29.400 And I was like, what a cool like technique. And 1:37:29.479 --> 1:37:30.920 I was like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. And I 1:37:31.240 --> 1:37:32.559 was like, you going to ask you if you read 1:37:32.560 --> 1:37:35.560 the book The zenov Archery. Yeah yeah, yeah, I thought so. 1:37:35.640 --> 1:37:38.280 I was like, I was, I've been some favorite stories 1:37:38.280 --> 1:37:39.840 from that books. Book. 1:37:40.120 --> 1:37:42.720 It's kind from another one because I was talking about 1:37:42.800 --> 1:37:44.599 music and it ties into a lot of what we're 1:37:44.600 --> 1:37:47.080 talking about. One of my favorite short books. I can't 1:37:47.120 --> 1:37:50.479 remember who recommended this to me might have been seth 1:37:50.520 --> 1:37:54.880 goodin it's called The Art of Possibility. Bye, I want 1:37:54.880 --> 1:37:59.440 to say Benjamin Xander blanking his wife's name, which is embarrassing. 1:37:59.479 --> 1:38:05.040 But and Z and deer And it's a conductor, very 1:38:05.080 --> 1:38:10.160 high level orchestral conductor. And it is a wonderful book. 1:38:10.360 --> 1:38:12.360 It ties into everything that we're talking about. So for 1:38:12.400 --> 1:38:13.960 folks who want I think it's one hundred and fifty 1:38:14.000 --> 1:38:17.360 pages or something really really exceptional book. 1:38:17.280 --> 1:38:20.639 Well, yeah, yeah, that's cool. I love it. Tim, You've 1:38:20.680 --> 1:38:22.120 been so fun to talk to us always. 1:38:22.120 --> 1:38:23.479 This is like, yes, pleasure. 1:38:23.760 --> 1:38:27.120 You're such a fascinating individual, truly, and I'm so grateful 1:38:27.160 --> 1:38:30.320 that you've always been the human guinea pig because it's 1:38:30.400 --> 1:38:32.800 fun being in your mind and talking to you just 1:38:32.880 --> 1:38:35.680 about things you're exploring. Because I think it brings back 1:38:35.720 --> 1:38:39.120 a zest for life. Naturally, it's contagious. It creates this 1:38:39.240 --> 1:38:41.559 curiosity in everyone. And at the same time, I think 1:38:41.760 --> 1:38:43.920 we've talked about so many practical things that people can 1:38:43.960 --> 1:38:46.080 actually apply in their lives. I wanted to end with 1:38:46.080 --> 1:38:48.759 two segments. One of them is a bunch of questions 1:38:48.800 --> 1:38:51.559 that we just got from our audience that we love 1:38:51.680 --> 1:38:54.479 that I wanted to throw it you for. 1:38:54.560 --> 1:38:56.360 Me to keep my answers short or what do you want? 1:38:56.400 --> 1:38:58.720 Know? These ones? You can flow a bit, Yeah, you 1:38:58.720 --> 1:39:01.040 can riff a bit the questions kind of what you 1:39:01.040 --> 1:39:03.479 were saying, Questions that you asked repeatedly. There are certain 1:39:03.520 --> 1:39:05.559 questions that we found out. Audience loves knowing the answer 1:39:05.560 --> 1:39:09.000 to from different people, and so we throw them out 1:39:09.000 --> 1:39:12.639 to you. So this one is what makes a good friend? 1:39:13.479 --> 1:39:16.240 What makes a good friend? That is a damn good question. 1:39:18.080 --> 1:39:21.400 I would say it's someone who says what they mean, 1:39:21.760 --> 1:39:25.640 means what they say. Who's reliable, you know, someone you 1:39:25.680 --> 1:39:30.679 can share your joys and sorrows with over time, I mean, 1:39:30.720 --> 1:39:34.320 that's about it. I would say that over time this 1:39:34.439 --> 1:39:38.880 applies across the board. Intelligence in quotation marks, because what 1:39:38.920 --> 1:39:41.519 does that even mean has become less and less important 1:39:41.560 --> 1:39:47.040 to me, Like trustworthiness and reliability come way before that. Now. Yeah, 1:39:47.120 --> 1:39:49.479 not to say my friends are stupid, like my friends 1:39:49.800 --> 1:39:52.479 tend to be, you know, they tend to be pretty smart. 1:39:53.040 --> 1:39:55.720 But I'm not sorting first by that. 1:39:56.000 --> 1:39:58.000 Yeah, I love everyone who's made it. Now I's wondering, 1:39:58.040 --> 1:40:03.000 Wait a minute, and then that makes sense. What's the 1:40:03.040 --> 1:40:06.000 difference between being efficient and cutting corners. 1:40:06.640 --> 1:40:08.479 I mean, what comes to mind for me is cutting 1:40:08.479 --> 1:40:14.240 corners implies aiming for short term gain, but long term 1:40:14.280 --> 1:40:17.800 side effects or consequences. Right, cutting corners implies you're not 1:40:17.920 --> 1:40:20.720 doing something you should do. And I would expand that 1:40:20.800 --> 1:40:23.600 further just to say that I do not focus on 1:40:23.640 --> 1:40:27.160 efficiency as much as people think efficiency. And I'm borrowing 1:40:27.200 --> 1:40:31.400 from Peter Drucker here also The Effective Executive. Everybody, Holy cow, 1:40:31.439 --> 1:40:35.760 what a great book. But Peter Drucker paraphrasing, effectiveness is 1:40:35.840 --> 1:40:39.080 doing the right things, and then efficiency is doing things right. 1:40:40.240 --> 1:40:42.400 The way I would reframe that is like what you do, 1:40:42.800 --> 1:40:45.760 like picking your big yes, matters a lot more than 1:40:46.200 --> 1:40:48.120 how you get there. It's kind of like if you're 1:40:48.160 --> 1:40:50.480 starting in Kansas and you're intending to be a California 1:40:50.600 --> 1:40:53.000 be car pointed towards New York. It's like you could 1:40:53.040 --> 1:40:56.599 be Mario ANDRETTI doesn't matter, you're going the wrong direction. Yeah, 1:40:56.680 --> 1:40:59.080 So the what matters a lot more? 1:40:59.400 --> 1:41:02.040 Yeah? What advice has made you the most money? 1:41:03.760 --> 1:41:06.679 These are a good question. I like these. It's hard 1:41:06.680 --> 1:41:08.320 to attribute to one person. I wish I could, but 1:41:08.360 --> 1:41:12.120 it's from a couple of different folks. Well, I'll actually 1:41:12.280 --> 1:41:14.559 give a nod to some folks who have informed the 1:41:14.560 --> 1:41:18.400 thinking aiming to be a category of one. So don't 1:41:18.520 --> 1:41:21.759 aim to be the best, although I think that's fine 1:41:21.800 --> 1:41:24.840 once you do what I'm about to describe, aim to 1:41:24.880 --> 1:41:28.320 be the only right. We were chatting a bit before 1:41:28.320 --> 1:41:31.479 we started recording about how the podcast landscape has changed 1:41:31.479 --> 1:41:33.960 and it would be very hard to start my show now. 1:41:34.160 --> 1:41:38.759 Absolutely you would need to be more probably narrowly focused 1:41:38.760 --> 1:41:42.760 and differentiated in a bunch of different ways. So for that, 1:41:42.880 --> 1:41:45.960 there's a great essay if you can find online at 1:41:46.640 --> 1:41:49.679 kk dot org. Kevin Kelly wrote one thousand true fans. 1:41:50.280 --> 1:41:52.599 I think it was true ten years ago, and it 1:41:52.640 --> 1:41:56.479 is going to become ultra ultra true as AI starts 1:41:56.520 --> 1:41:59.360 to gobble everything. One thousand true fans. You got to 1:41:59.360 --> 1:42:02.679 read it. The Law of category as a chapter from 1:42:03.120 --> 1:42:05.519 the twenty two Immutable Laws of Marketing. I think I 1:42:05.600 --> 1:42:08.640 put it. I think I excerpted it in Tools of 1:42:08.680 --> 1:42:11.599 Titans or Tribal Mentors, because that chapter had a huge 1:42:11.600 --> 1:42:15.640 impact Blue Ocean Strategy. Also, those are all related. So 1:42:16.280 --> 1:42:19.559 the advice to basically aim to be the only definitely one. 1:42:20.280 --> 1:42:23.519 Another one would be this relates to I guess the 1:42:23.520 --> 1:42:27.760 angel investing and so on is too. And Mark and 1:42:27.840 --> 1:42:32.960 Dreesen very famous entrepreneur and technologist and investor, but also 1:42:33.920 --> 1:42:37.080 the late Scott Adams controversial guy, but certainly was very 1:42:37.080 --> 1:42:40.120 good at what he did with Gilbert had had similar 1:42:40.160 --> 1:42:43.679 echoes of this, basically talking about two things. The first 1:42:43.760 --> 1:42:46.640 is that trying to become top one percent, and this 1:42:46.720 --> 1:42:51.120 relates to the first point, like Michael Jordan in basketball, 1:42:51.479 --> 1:42:55.800 very hard, Yoyoma, very hard. Almost everybody is going to 1:42:55.840 --> 1:42:58.639 get cut. But if you can be top say twenty 1:42:58.720 --> 1:43:03.160 five percent in two fields that are rarely combined, right, 1:43:03.560 --> 1:43:05.720 software development, although yeah, is going to kill that, but 1:43:05.800 --> 1:43:10.679 software and let's just say debate or a law degree. Oh, 1:43:10.680 --> 1:43:16.360 that's interesting. So I tend to think about combining top 1:43:16.400 --> 1:43:20.240 twenty five percent of fields that are rarely combined. And 1:43:20.280 --> 1:43:23.880 then the last one would be choosing projects based on 1:43:24.640 --> 1:43:29.800 acquiring skills and either building or deepening relationships that transcend 1:43:29.800 --> 1:43:31.960 that project, because a lot of my projects fail by 1:43:32.000 --> 1:43:36.800 any external metric. But if I'm building friendships with very 1:43:36.920 --> 1:43:40.680 interesting people who are smart, and I'm developing skills that 1:43:40.720 --> 1:43:45.000 are kind of transferable over time, you just win. It's 1:43:45.120 --> 1:43:46.120 very hard not to win. 1:43:47.080 --> 1:43:50.880 That's great advice. That's huge. There's so much in the 1:43:51.200 --> 1:43:54.479 huge advice. Thank you this one. What's something that the 1:43:54.520 --> 1:43:57.840 top one percent obsess over that most people never even 1:43:57.880 --> 1:43:58.360 think about? 1:43:58.760 --> 1:44:00.599 I mean, this is going to sound self serving because 1:44:00.600 --> 1:44:04.439 my eight hundred fifty face book is about this, saying no, 1:44:05.439 --> 1:44:10.120 the absolute sacredness of focus. They are all I mean, 1:44:10.160 --> 1:44:11.840 some people are better at this than others, but in 1:44:11.880 --> 1:44:17.160 their own way, they are very very militant about that, 1:44:18.200 --> 1:44:21.439 in a way that's very different from say the top 1:44:21.640 --> 1:44:24.320 forty percent. Yeah, yeah, right, Like the top one to 1:44:24.400 --> 1:44:27.000 five percent, even if they don't realize it, have set 1:44:27.040 --> 1:44:31.680 up systems, or they have employees, or they have you know, 1:44:32.320 --> 1:44:36.719 no available email address or whatever, or unusual ways to calendar. 1:44:37.120 --> 1:44:39.639 Even if they don't realize it, they're very very good 1:44:39.680 --> 1:44:40.960 at firewalling their attention. 1:44:41.240 --> 1:44:43.960 What's the allure of yes, Like, what is the allure? 1:44:44.080 --> 1:44:48.040 Is it people pleasing? Is it distraction? Is it busyness? Like? 1:44:48.240 --> 1:44:49.240 What have you found to be there? 1:44:49.320 --> 1:44:51.120 I think those are all good answers, right, So, I 1:44:51.160 --> 1:44:55.639 think there's fomo because everything in modern marketing is intended 1:44:55.680 --> 1:44:58.559 to foster fear of missing out. But if you only 1:44:58.560 --> 1:45:01.480 have one good idea or one good chance, it's your screwt. Yeah, 1:45:01.680 --> 1:45:04.200 you need to develop and you only do this their 1:45:04.240 --> 1:45:07.559 experimentation and time on the field, the confidence in your 1:45:07.560 --> 1:45:12.920 ability to generate or capitalize on opportunities. Right, this is 1:45:12.960 --> 1:45:17.519 incredibly important. And I mentioned angel investing a bit for 1:45:17.560 --> 1:45:19.920 people who don't know that just means investing, in my case, 1:45:19.960 --> 1:45:23.760 in companies very very early. So when two people and 1:45:23.800 --> 1:45:27.080 an idea on a napkin investing in those people, if 1:45:27.120 --> 1:45:29.960 you don't have the ability to say no, you run 1:45:30.000 --> 1:45:33.960 out of money, your debt game over. That's the end 1:45:34.000 --> 1:45:35.559 of your angel in this day, right, because most of 1:45:35.560 --> 1:45:37.479 them are going to go to zero. And I would 1:45:37.479 --> 1:45:41.080 say that that seems like something that doesn't apply everywhere else. 1:45:41.280 --> 1:45:44.599 But guess what, you can make more money later, As 1:45:44.600 --> 1:45:46.920 far as we know, you can't create more time later. 1:45:47.680 --> 1:45:52.040 Back to Seneca on the shortness of life, and people 1:45:52.160 --> 1:45:58.200 are really burning time in ways they will realize they're 1:45:58.240 --> 1:46:02.320 pretty terrifying. But Fomo's use of it. People pleasing is another, 1:46:02.680 --> 1:46:07.400 which generally is short term nice, long term mean you 1:46:07.600 --> 1:46:10.519 always end up panning the piper with that one. Yeah, 1:46:10.800 --> 1:46:14.080 it's like you're gonna have to have an uncomfortable conversation. Yeah, 1:46:14.240 --> 1:46:15.760 do you want to have two years of pain before 1:46:15.760 --> 1:46:16.880 that or do you want to just do that now? 1:46:17.040 --> 1:46:17.280 Yeah? 1:46:17.479 --> 1:46:22.120 Right, yeah, then I would say field mice. Right, if 1:46:22.160 --> 1:46:25.000 you don't have an antelope and someone else is like, hey, 1:46:25.000 --> 1:46:27.680 come help me with my antelope. Hey, why don't you 1:46:27.960 --> 1:46:30.880 come to my party about my antelope? You're like the 1:46:30.960 --> 1:46:33.479 antelope sexy? Yeah, all right, Sure I'll say yes to 1:46:33.479 --> 1:46:36.000 your party. Sure I'll come to your you know, bought 1:46:36.040 --> 1:46:38.200 mits and magic show. Sure I'll do this. Sure I'll 1:46:38.240 --> 1:46:42.400 do that. Yeah, you know, and before you know it, 1:46:42.720 --> 1:46:44.200 your calendar is full of field mice. 1:46:44.400 --> 1:46:45.120 Yeah. 1:46:44.920 --> 1:46:47.200 Yeah, those are some of the pieces. You can spend 1:46:47.360 --> 1:46:51.080 quite a lot of time on that diagnosing it, but 1:46:51.080 --> 1:46:52.080 those are a few of the big ones. 1:46:52.280 --> 1:46:56.320 Absolutely, A ground says, uh, what's the emotional cost of 1:46:56.400 --> 1:46:57.960 constantly trying to improve yourself? 1:46:58.800 --> 1:47:02.080 The emotional cost of constantly trying to improve yourself in 1:47:02.160 --> 1:47:05.960 a vacuum without the acceptance piece is that you always 1:47:06.000 --> 1:47:09.559 think you're broken, and that is too high a cost 1:47:09.600 --> 1:47:12.320 for anyone to pay. It's an expanded discussion and the 1:47:13.040 --> 1:47:16.400 self help trap blog posts that I wrote. By the way, 1:47:16.400 --> 1:47:19.120 I think it's probably now within twenty four hours, I 1:47:19.200 --> 1:47:20.880 knew it was going to be my most popular blog 1:47:20.880 --> 1:47:23.479 posts of the last ten years. Probably. Wow, it's wild. 1:47:23.560 --> 1:47:26.280 I didn't know if it would resonate, but holy shit. 1:47:27.040 --> 1:47:32.599 So the cost to constantly improve yourself almost by definition, 1:47:32.640 --> 1:47:36.200 you have to constantly be looking for ways to fix yourself, 1:47:36.320 --> 1:47:39.800 which means you're looking for ways you're broken, and that 1:47:39.880 --> 1:47:43.240 means you're always in the red. Right, there's always one 1:47:43.240 --> 1:47:47.400 more problem, and so the feeling of peace eludes you 1:47:47.439 --> 1:47:51.479 by one more workshop, one more book, one more retreat, 1:47:51.600 --> 1:47:54.600 one more psychedelic, whatever it is, you're always going to 1:47:54.640 --> 1:47:58.240 be one step behind. If that's the only lens through 1:47:58.240 --> 1:48:01.719 which you're looking at them. Yeah, achievement self improvement sign. 1:48:02.400 --> 1:48:05.040 If you have the acceptance side, then you can start 1:48:05.160 --> 1:48:08.679 to balance out the wobble board. So I would say 1:48:08.720 --> 1:48:09.960 that's that's what comes to mind. 1:48:10.040 --> 1:48:12.479 Yeah, it's almost like the old idea of climbing the 1:48:12.479 --> 1:48:14.400 mountain and pausing to look at the view, and then 1:48:14.680 --> 1:48:16.760 climb some more and looking at the view. And yeah, 1:48:16.800 --> 1:48:19.640 you know, you'd never go on a hike and not 1:48:19.760 --> 1:48:22.320 stop and look at the view. It's a ridiculous idea. 1:48:22.360 --> 1:48:24.320 You'd never just go, well, I'm just gonna I'm only 1:48:24.360 --> 1:48:26.040 gonna look at the view when I get to the top, 1:48:26.720 --> 1:48:28.760 and then there is no top, because you just keep 1:48:28.800 --> 1:48:31.639 discovering a new top, and it's like, no, I grow. 1:48:31.760 --> 1:48:33.400 We got to a flat piece of land, and then 1:48:33.439 --> 1:48:35.800 I stopped and we had a little you know, sandwiches 1:48:35.840 --> 1:48:37.880 and had some lunch and looked at the view and 1:48:38.240 --> 1:48:40.400 had a bit of piece and appreciate how far we'd come. 1:48:40.439 --> 1:48:46.120 And furthermore, I'll just add to this, the hyper individualism 1:48:46.160 --> 1:48:51.559 of most self help I think is very problematic, and 1:48:51.960 --> 1:48:56.679 I want to keep this and not prevent it from 1:48:56.720 --> 1:48:59.960 becoming a ted talk. But Pema Children has a really 1:49:00.160 --> 1:49:03.320 great poem who Henry Schuckman introduced me to actually, and 1:49:03.600 --> 1:49:05.599 I won't be able to recite because it's pretty long, 1:49:05.640 --> 1:49:10.880 but it effectively it's from when Things Fall Apart and 1:49:11.600 --> 1:49:15.839 talks about ascending the mountaintop, just as you were describing. 1:49:15.920 --> 1:49:18.240 The problem with that is that you leave your alcoholic sister, 1:49:18.439 --> 1:49:21.519 your schizophrenic friend behind, and then when you get to 1:49:21.560 --> 1:49:25.479 the top, you realize, oh, it just descends, and actually 1:49:25.520 --> 1:49:30.440 the mountain descends back into the messiness of human relationships. 1:49:31.120 --> 1:49:35.320 So that's yeah, well, if you want to be on 1:49:35.360 --> 1:49:37.320 the playing field, Yeah, that's powerful. 1:49:37.640 --> 1:49:42.120 I think it really Another question, like a question that 1:49:42.160 --> 1:49:43.800 I'm asking myself right now, which is not one of 1:49:43.840 --> 1:49:48.640 those seventeen, is what if almost everything you did or 1:49:48.720 --> 1:49:52.599 project you added had to improve your relational life somehow 1:49:52.720 --> 1:49:54.600 that's the criteria. 1:49:54.160 --> 1:49:56.040 Or because that's your antelope right now? 1:49:56.160 --> 1:50:00.439 Yeah, yeah, well it also feeds and reinforces and drenthens 1:50:00.479 --> 1:50:03.280 everything else. Or what if just to make it simple, 1:50:03.439 --> 1:50:06.400 you put you together to do list. What if for 1:50:06.479 --> 1:50:10.760 the next week two weeks, the first thing you had 1:50:10.800 --> 1:50:13.200 to do was one that was going to improve your 1:50:13.240 --> 1:50:15.960 relationships some way. By the way, it doesn't need to 1:50:16.000 --> 1:50:19.000 be a big thing. Sure could be having that long, 1:50:19.000 --> 1:50:21.400 overdo hard conversation with your parents, but that's a heavy lift. 1:50:21.600 --> 1:50:25.880 It could also be saying hi to your significant other 1:50:25.920 --> 1:50:27.960 in the morning and kissing him or her on the 1:50:28.000 --> 1:50:31.160 cheek before you jump on your phone. Right, it doesn't 1:50:31.160 --> 1:50:31.840 have to be a big thing. 1:50:31.920 --> 1:50:35.920 Totally. Yeah, I lost one of these. If someone feels 1:50:35.960 --> 1:50:38.040 behind in life, what would you tell. 1:50:37.880 --> 1:50:41.280 Them, I'd say a few things. I'd say Number one, 1:50:41.520 --> 1:50:44.800 it's never too late. I've seen so many examples of 1:50:44.800 --> 1:50:48.960 people doing amazing stuff starting in their fifties, sixties, seventies. 1:50:49.600 --> 1:50:51.960 Jim Collins actually is new book. I don't know if 1:50:52.000 --> 1:50:54.560 it's out yet, but What to make of a Life 1:50:54.600 --> 1:51:00.799 profiles something like thirty people and these are incredible examples 1:51:00.840 --> 1:51:02.559 of success and a lot of them did their most 1:51:02.560 --> 1:51:05.519 important work in their fifties, sixties and seventies, so it's 1:51:05.520 --> 1:51:09.560 not too late. Number one and number two i'd recommend. 1:51:10.000 --> 1:51:12.920 I'm giving so many book recommendations, just like, oh god, 1:51:14.479 --> 1:51:18.439 this so four thousand Weeks by Oliver Burkman, I think 1:51:18.520 --> 1:51:20.519 is a phenomenal book. And there's a chapter in that 1:51:20.560 --> 1:51:25.400 book specifically you can find it online called Cosmic Insignificance Therapy, 1:51:26.439 --> 1:51:30.360 and people should check this out. And this is not 1:51:31.120 --> 1:51:32.919 some people are like, oh it has becomes a nihilistic 1:51:33.080 --> 1:51:37.320 No no, no, no, no no, this isn't nihilism. But you 1:51:37.400 --> 1:51:42.080 can make your problems seem less life or death by 1:51:42.160 --> 1:51:45.360 zooming out, and Oliver does this very well. R And 1:51:45.400 --> 1:51:49.599 a friend of mine, Ed Cook, he's world class memory competitor. 1:51:49.640 --> 1:51:51.800 For a long time. He trained I think it was 1:51:51.880 --> 1:51:54.840 Joan Lair writer to become national memory champion in the 1:51:54.920 --> 1:51:57.280 US in a book called moonwalking with Einstein. 1:51:57.320 --> 1:51:58.479 I mean the guys is. 1:51:58.520 --> 1:52:01.920 Done, and Ed Cook will do the same thing even 1:52:01.960 --> 1:52:03.679 though he's I don't even think he knows who Oliver 1:52:03.760 --> 1:52:06.760 Berkman is, which is like imagine zooming out to like 1:52:06.800 --> 1:52:08.639 above his house if he's really stressed out, Like zoom 1:52:08.640 --> 1:52:12.080 above his house, then zoom out to like above the city, 1:52:12.200 --> 1:52:15.760 then the country, then out to seeing the planet, then 1:52:15.840 --> 1:52:18.400 zoom out and further looking at the solar system. And 1:52:18.840 --> 1:52:22.760 there's something to it that almost always takes some of 1:52:22.760 --> 1:52:25.719 the pressure out of the tires. And it's like, okay 1:52:25.800 --> 1:52:27.439 at the end of the day, And I don't think 1:52:27.439 --> 1:52:29.040 this is bad news, but like we are a bunch 1:52:29.120 --> 1:52:31.800 of monkeys on a spinning rock in the middle of 1:52:31.800 --> 1:52:35.800 the cosmos, right, So maybe the fact that somebody said, 1:52:35.800 --> 1:52:38.080 a you know, sent a really pissy email to you, 1:52:38.200 --> 1:52:40.559 like ah, look in the grand scheme of things, yeah, yeah, 1:52:40.760 --> 1:52:43.880 like okay, and I need that for myself too. I'm 1:52:43.880 --> 1:52:46.360 not wagging a finger at people. I'm like, look, I 1:52:46.400 --> 1:52:48.439 can get wound up about that. I'm really good in 1:52:48.479 --> 1:52:51.960 crisis and with giant like projects and problems. It's the 1:52:52.080 --> 1:52:54.280 dumbest shit in the world. Like somebody cuts me off 1:52:54.280 --> 1:52:57.160 at the buffet line and like an airplane lounge or something, 1:52:57.200 --> 1:52:59.400 and I'm just like, really, that's what you're gonna get 1:52:59.400 --> 1:53:02.680 wound up about. Yeah, two days, For the next eight 1:53:02.720 --> 1:53:04.800 hour flight, you're think about that guy, what's wrong with you? 1:53:05.320 --> 1:53:07.599 So trust me. It's like I'm drinking the medicine too. 1:53:07.680 --> 1:53:10.639 Yeah, absolutely, no, No, I can relate to both, and it's both. 1:53:10.640 --> 1:53:13.840 It's like there's times in life where thinking what you 1:53:13.920 --> 1:53:17.639 do matters is everything, and then there's times in life 1:53:17.720 --> 1:53:21.160 that embracing your own insignificance is the only way to function. 1:53:21.400 --> 1:53:24.640 There's a great Bertrand Russell quote. It's along the lines of, 1:53:24.960 --> 1:53:28.479 you know, the sure sign of impending nervous breakdown is 1:53:28.520 --> 1:53:33.400 taking one's work incredibly seriously something like that, butchering it. 1:53:33.479 --> 1:53:38.200 But it's very close like that, and the dose makes 1:53:38.200 --> 1:53:40.680 the poison, right, Like you have to believe in what 1:53:40.720 --> 1:53:42.880 you're doing. Yeah, and at the same time kind of 1:53:42.880 --> 1:53:44.679 recognize like we're all on the moment show here. 1:53:44.880 --> 1:53:49.680 Exactly, yeah, exactly exactly as the Boddo had said, hold it. 1:53:49.760 --> 1:53:51.120 You have to hold it, and you hold a bed 1:53:51.160 --> 1:53:52.760 in your hand, but not too tightly. It's like you 1:53:52.760 --> 1:53:54.680 hold it too tightly, you suffocate it and if you 1:53:54.720 --> 1:53:56.400 don't hold it at all, then you can't help it. 1:53:56.960 --> 1:53:59.960 And so it's yeah, it's that, it's it's hard. It's hard, 1:54:00.240 --> 1:54:01.639 and you're always going to go in between. 1:54:01.800 --> 1:54:03.680 Yeah, you got to crush a few birds first and 1:54:03.760 --> 1:54:04.880 let a few go to figure it out. 1:54:04.960 --> 1:54:09.040 Exactly. Yeah, sadly, sadly, Tim, We end every episode with 1:54:09.040 --> 1:54:10.599 the final five. These have to be answered in one 1:54:10.640 --> 1:54:14.439 sentence maximum. So these these are sure, So Tim, these 1:54:14.439 --> 1:54:16.320 are your final five. Question number one, what is the 1:54:16.360 --> 1:54:18.360 best advice you've ever heard or received? 1:54:18.600 --> 1:54:19.960 Don't believe everything you think? 1:54:21.240 --> 1:54:23.559 Question number two, what is the worst advice you've ever 1:54:23.600 --> 1:54:24.320 heard or received? 1:54:24.560 --> 1:54:25.880 You need money to make money? 1:54:26.240 --> 1:54:29.280 Question number three? What did you used to value that 1:54:29.360 --> 1:54:30.439 you don't value anymore? 1:54:31.680 --> 1:54:33.440 Achievement without acceptance? 1:54:33.920 --> 1:54:36.120 What did you never value before but that you do 1:54:36.200 --> 1:54:37.200 deeply value now? 1:54:38.400 --> 1:54:39.800 Emotional experience? 1:54:41.440 --> 1:54:41.760 Really? 1:54:41.920 --> 1:54:45.320 Yeah, I mean I thought emotions were just limbic system 1:54:46.080 --> 1:54:47.600 liabilities for a long time. 1:54:47.760 --> 1:54:49.200 What changed your mind on that? Well? 1:54:49.240 --> 1:54:50.560 I few think I mean I realized you just can't 1:54:50.560 --> 1:54:56.360 get around it, like coury kidding, right, like. 1:54:55.680 --> 1:54:57.040 But I think it's a really good conversation. 1:54:57.160 --> 1:54:59.800 That's one, right, You just can't get around. It's coming 1:54:59.840 --> 1:55:02.640 back to the serenity ber. It's like, yeah, good luck 1:55:02.640 --> 1:55:07.120 with that, farish. And even if you could become Spock, 1:55:07.280 --> 1:55:08.960 you're going to interact with people who are not Spock. 1:55:09.160 --> 1:55:13.360 So we're right back at square one. And that's one. 1:55:13.440 --> 1:55:16.080 And secondly, there's quite a long story behind this that 1:55:16.120 --> 1:55:17.840 I won't get into, but you. 1:55:17.800 --> 1:55:18.560 Can if you want. 1:55:18.760 --> 1:55:21.720 If Yeah, I would just say that to experience the 1:55:21.760 --> 1:55:24.480 full richness of being human, you have to embrace being 1:55:24.560 --> 1:55:28.840 human and a very large part of that his emotions emotional. 1:55:29.160 --> 1:55:32.080 Yeah, well said fifteen. Quick final question. We asked this 1:55:32.120 --> 1:55:34.320 to every guest's ever been on the show. If you 1:55:34.360 --> 1:55:36.640 could create one law that everyone in the world had 1:55:36.680 --> 1:55:37.800 to follow, what would it be. 1:55:38.320 --> 1:55:41.640 I'd say, smile and say hi first. Yeah, and I'm 1:55:41.680 --> 1:55:45.480 borrowing that from from Gabby Reese, amazing woman who I 1:55:45.520 --> 1:55:48.320 interviewed alongside Laird Hamilton a long time ago. But yeah, 1:55:48.600 --> 1:55:52.240 go first with hers. Yeah, like, smile and say I first. 1:55:52.360 --> 1:55:56.440 It changes everything. It actually does. It actually changes everything. 1:55:56.480 --> 1:55:58.480 If you walked into a room and brought the energy 1:55:58.520 --> 1:55:59.920 you hope to get out of it, it's like. 1:56:00.080 --> 1:56:05.240 Yeah, there's another this isn't this isn't poetic. There's another one. 1:56:05.800 --> 1:56:07.560 Somebody told me at one point. I'm like, oh god, 1:56:07.600 --> 1:56:10.480 that's good. They said, if you walk out one day 1:56:10.880 --> 1:56:13.760 and you be an asshole, that person's an asshole. If 1:56:13.800 --> 1:56:17.400 you walk outside and everyone's an asshole, you're that you're 1:56:17.520 --> 1:56:18.040 the asshole. 1:56:18.400 --> 1:56:22.560 You know it's true. I have plenty of both. 1:56:23.040 --> 1:56:25.440 Go get some key tones from the macadamia nuts or 1:56:25.440 --> 1:56:26.160 a cold shower. 1:56:28.120 --> 1:56:29.760 I love it. Thank you so much for coming on 1:56:29.760 --> 1:56:31.920 the show. I hope everyone checks out Tim dot blog 1:56:31.960 --> 1:56:34.880 forward slash seventeen for the seventeen questions and people can 1:56:34.920 --> 1:56:37.360 actually read your new book kind of to get you 1:56:37.400 --> 1:56:38.120 want to talk about that? 1:56:38.360 --> 1:56:40.800 Yeah, sure, yeah, people can get if they go to 1:56:40.840 --> 1:56:43.080 Tim dop blog. That is a ural kind of confusing. 1:56:43.080 --> 1:56:45.000 We'll just type tim dop blog in. You can get 1:56:45.520 --> 1:56:47.280 I want to say, one hundred and seventy five to 1:56:47.280 --> 1:56:50.960 two hundred pages of my various books to read. Plenty 1:56:51.000 --> 1:56:54.480 of actional, tons of actionable stuff. It's not just buttering 1:56:54.520 --> 1:56:56.720 you up for the book, like you don't ever have 1:56:56.840 --> 1:56:59.320 to buy the books. I mean there's more in the books, obviously, 1:56:59.320 --> 1:57:02.040 but there's If you go to Tim up Law you'll 1:57:02.040 --> 1:57:04.600 find one hundred and seventy five plus pages. And then 1:57:05.080 --> 1:57:07.720 for the Notebook, which is kind of the codename for 1:57:07.760 --> 1:57:11.560 the book about saying no. Definitely my funniest book so far, 1:57:11.680 --> 1:57:14.520 because I did it with Neil Strauss, who acted as 1:57:14.520 --> 1:57:20.040 my student, and he was so bad, so comically bad 1:57:20.040 --> 1:57:23.280 at saying no. There's a lot of funny exchanges, real 1:57:23.320 --> 1:57:26.040 text messages and experiments and stuff you can find I 1:57:26.080 --> 1:57:28.960 want to say, fifty seventy five pages of that at 1:57:29.280 --> 1:57:34.600 timmed up log slash Notebook and yeah, so all that stuff, 1:57:34.640 --> 1:57:36.320 all that stuff is great. People can check it out. 1:57:36.480 --> 1:57:38.400 Well, thank you. Well, everyone has been listening to watching. 1:57:38.480 --> 1:57:41.280 Make sure you tag me and Tim on Instagram x 1:57:41.640 --> 1:57:45.320 TikTok wherever you're viewing the show or seeing clips. I 1:57:45.320 --> 1:57:48.200 want to know what resonated with you, what you're practicing with, 1:57:48.400 --> 1:57:51.800 what you're trying, what you're exploring. I love seeing how 1:57:52.040 --> 1:57:54.840 what we discuss here turns into reality. So let us 1:57:54.880 --> 1:57:57.280 know what you're taking action on. And Tim, thank you 1:57:57.280 --> 1:57:59.480 so much. I hope you'll come back on the show. 1:57:59.480 --> 1:58:00.960 And we weren't say nine years again. 1:58:01.240 --> 1:58:02.920 You're very good at what you do. Man. It's fun 1:58:02.960 --> 1:58:04.880 to watch and it's fun to experience. 1:58:04.920 --> 1:58:07.080 Also, it's easier with someone like you. This is like 1:58:07.120 --> 1:58:09.120 a dream. It is not my favorite kind of episode, 1:58:09.360 --> 1:58:12.280 the best. Thank you, thanks, thank you so much for 1:58:12.400 --> 1:58:15.960 listening to this conversation. If you enjoyed it, you'll love 1:58:16.040 --> 1:58:19.840 my chat with Adam Grant on why discomfort is the 1:58:19.960 --> 1:58:24.280 key to growth and the strategies for unlocking your hidden potential. 1:58:24.400 --> 1:58:27.120 I don't believe that comparison is the thief of joy. 1:58:27.200 --> 1:58:29.120 I think envy is the thief of joy. I think 1:58:29.160 --> 1:58:30.880 social comparison is invaluable