1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:20,956 Speaker 1: Pushkin Hi listeners, you know that hero on Revision is history. 2 00:00:21,316 --> 00:00:23,476 Speaker 1: We ask a lot of questions about the systems that 3 00:00:23,516 --> 00:00:26,236 Speaker 1: have shaped our worldviews. While we're hard at work on 4 00:00:26,276 --> 00:00:29,556 Speaker 1: our new season, we wanted to share another podcast that 5 00:00:29,716 --> 00:00:34,036 Speaker 1: hits these points and asks big questions too. It's called 6 00:00:34,396 --> 00:00:37,836 Speaker 1: seneon Radio, and today I'm bringing you an episode from 7 00:00:37,836 --> 00:00:42,596 Speaker 1: their aptly named new season, The News. Some have called 8 00:00:42,596 --> 00:00:45,716 Speaker 1: the news media the oxygen of a functioning democracy, but 9 00:00:45,796 --> 00:00:49,876 Speaker 1: if that's true, America's lungs are in rough shape. Many 10 00:00:49,916 --> 00:00:53,396 Speaker 1: Americans say they don't trust the media. The business model 11 00:00:53,436 --> 00:00:56,996 Speaker 1: for local journalism has all been collapsed, and we all 12 00:00:56,996 --> 00:01:00,436 Speaker 1: know about the barrage of misinformation that flows from our 13 00:01:00,476 --> 00:01:04,156 Speaker 1: splintered media escape. You can't separate the state of our 14 00:01:04,196 --> 00:01:08,876 Speaker 1: news media from the other profound crises that America keeps 15 00:01:08,916 --> 00:01:13,196 Speaker 1: on failing to solve. Hosted by John Bewen and now 16 00:01:13,196 --> 00:01:17,436 Speaker 1: in its eighth season, the two time Peabody Award nominated 17 00:01:17,476 --> 00:01:21,516 Speaker 1: show explores the roots of this crisis and asks what's 18 00:01:21,596 --> 00:01:24,836 Speaker 1: really wrong with the news. It's an eight part series, 19 00:01:25,116 --> 00:01:27,596 Speaker 1: so you'll want to check out the rest, but for now, 20 00:01:27,956 --> 00:01:33,636 Speaker 1: here's episode one. Find Seat on Radio wherever you get podcasts. 21 00:01:37,916 --> 00:01:39,436 Speaker 2: All right, we're rolling. 22 00:01:39,716 --> 00:01:43,996 Speaker 3: Good sir, here we go. Asian markets are mostly down today. 23 00:01:44,076 --> 00:01:47,956 Speaker 4: That's dangerous flash flooding ripping through parts of Milwaukee. 24 00:01:48,036 --> 00:01:49,396 Speaker 3: This is a box news alart. 25 00:01:49,476 --> 00:01:51,036 Speaker 5: This is our camera angle. 26 00:01:50,796 --> 00:01:55,476 Speaker 6: From our Americans if we want to be are inundated 27 00:01:55,556 --> 00:01:59,076 Speaker 6: with news from countless sources, some of New York Times. 28 00:01:59,196 --> 00:02:01,756 Speaker 6: I'm Michael la Welcome back to One American News. 29 00:02:01,796 --> 00:02:04,036 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for and at the same time, we're 30 00:02:04,116 --> 00:02:07,916 Speaker 2: stuck in a deep information crisis the news. 31 00:02:10,236 --> 00:02:13,636 Speaker 6: It seems like we're helpless to solve our problems. It 32 00:02:13,676 --> 00:02:17,436 Speaker 6: doesn't help that we have no shared narrative and few 33 00:02:17,476 --> 00:02:18,356 Speaker 6: shared facts. 34 00:02:18,436 --> 00:02:20,676 Speaker 7: What is happening right now in the world and what 35 00:02:21,036 --> 00:02:25,076 Speaker 7: just happened to my friend Charlie Kirk is a battle 36 00:02:25,116 --> 00:02:28,436 Speaker 7: of sheer evil versus goodness. 37 00:02:28,436 --> 00:02:31,276 Speaker 8: To me, Fox News just not They don't tell the 38 00:02:31,316 --> 00:02:31,796 Speaker 8: whole story. 39 00:02:31,916 --> 00:02:33,436 Speaker 2: I consider myself a centrist. 40 00:02:33,836 --> 00:02:36,276 Speaker 6: I'm not particularly interested in the MSNBC. 41 00:02:36,676 --> 00:02:46,396 Speaker 9: What I'm saying is, don't try me today, Scotty. 42 00:02:44,036 --> 00:02:50,876 Speaker 2: York Post, big questions. A whole lot of us don't 43 00:02:50,916 --> 00:02:54,876 Speaker 2: know what's true. Oh, we firmly believe and will fight 44 00:02:54,956 --> 00:02:57,356 Speaker 2: you over things that are not true. 45 00:02:57,476 --> 00:02:59,196 Speaker 3: Let's get rid of these voting machines. 46 00:02:59,396 --> 00:03:01,356 Speaker 10: There's a half a dozen people, whether it's a House 47 00:03:01,436 --> 00:03:03,396 Speaker 10: or Senate Larry, that are up here as we speak 48 00:03:04,036 --> 00:03:05,196 Speaker 10: that did not get elected. 49 00:03:05,276 --> 00:03:06,396 Speaker 2: It was all bogus. 50 00:03:06,556 --> 00:03:10,036 Speaker 11: Just so people understand, wind and solar only work when 51 00:03:10,076 --> 00:03:11,196 Speaker 11: there's wind and sun. 52 00:03:11,596 --> 00:03:14,396 Speaker 7: We don't have technology to store the energy from wind 53 00:03:14,396 --> 00:03:14,796 Speaker 7: and solar. 54 00:03:14,996 --> 00:03:16,036 Speaker 3: So if you make yoursel. 55 00:03:15,836 --> 00:03:19,236 Speaker 10: I'm very disappointed in the mainstream media, and that's all 56 00:03:19,236 --> 00:03:20,076 Speaker 10: I'll say about that. 57 00:03:22,116 --> 00:03:25,556 Speaker 6: It's hard to imagine putting the toothpaste back in the tube. 58 00:03:26,196 --> 00:03:29,276 Speaker 6: And maybe there's no golden age to return to anyway. 59 00:03:30,396 --> 00:03:40,876 Speaker 6: So now what change your eye? 60 00:03:41,316 --> 00:03:41,876 Speaker 2: Hey? John? 61 00:03:42,916 --> 00:03:45,996 Speaker 6: You know our little montage could have just kept on going. 62 00:03:46,716 --> 00:03:48,436 Speaker 2: I better stopped now because I feel like you're gonna 63 00:03:48,436 --> 00:03:52,516 Speaker 2: get us in trouble, you know what I mean. We 64 00:03:52,636 --> 00:03:56,596 Speaker 2: got hundreds thousands more news and news ish outlets to 65 00:03:56,676 --> 00:03:57,356 Speaker 2: choose from. 66 00:03:57,396 --> 00:04:00,916 Speaker 6: We are a wash in media, at least some of 67 00:04:00,996 --> 00:04:04,036 Speaker 6: us are, but we don't seem very happy about it. 68 00:04:04,316 --> 00:04:08,076 Speaker 2: Yeah, man, everybody's mad at the news media. And if 69 00:04:08,076 --> 00:04:11,316 Speaker 2: I'm being honest, yeah, like I get it right, because 70 00:04:11,356 --> 00:04:13,996 Speaker 2: if you look around, so much of what passes for 71 00:04:14,076 --> 00:04:17,716 Speaker 2: news out there is like not that good. In fact, 72 00:04:17,756 --> 00:04:18,956 Speaker 2: a lot of it is trash. 73 00:04:19,276 --> 00:04:22,396 Speaker 6: We could easily find people who would disagree with you 74 00:04:22,636 --> 00:04:26,476 Speaker 6: or me about which acts of journalism are the trashy ones. 75 00:04:27,476 --> 00:04:30,996 Speaker 6: But no question about it, people are not happy. According 76 00:04:31,036 --> 00:04:33,836 Speaker 6: to a Gallup poll in twenty twenty five, only twenty 77 00:04:33,836 --> 00:04:37,396 Speaker 6: eight percent of Americans had even a fair amount of 78 00:04:37,436 --> 00:04:41,476 Speaker 6: confidence in the major media. Seventy percent of us say 79 00:04:41,516 --> 00:04:44,996 Speaker 6: we have not much or no confidence at all. 80 00:04:45,276 --> 00:04:49,116 Speaker 2: That crisis of trust is a huge problem for American journalism, 81 00:04:49,756 --> 00:04:51,596 Speaker 2: and it's not the only problem. 82 00:04:51,876 --> 00:04:54,676 Speaker 6: A lot of people at first blush might not care 83 00:04:54,756 --> 00:04:59,076 Speaker 6: about a media crisis, especially if they think the media sucks. 84 00:05:00,276 --> 00:05:03,596 Speaker 2: But people need the media to live, right. They need 85 00:05:03,636 --> 00:05:05,876 Speaker 2: to know what the status of their healthcare is. They 86 00:05:05,916 --> 00:05:07,836 Speaker 2: need to know what the weather is, you know what 87 00:05:07,836 --> 00:05:09,236 Speaker 2: I'm saying, and if there's going to be like like 88 00:05:09,276 --> 00:05:11,836 Speaker 2: an earthquake. They need to know if their rights are 89 00:05:11,836 --> 00:05:14,356 Speaker 2: going to be violated, right, I mean, it's just like 90 00:05:14,476 --> 00:05:18,116 Speaker 2: something that you need to live your everyday lives. And also, 91 00:05:18,876 --> 00:05:20,716 Speaker 2: how are you going to run a democracy where the 92 00:05:20,796 --> 00:05:23,436 Speaker 2: people are supposed to govern ourselves if we don't have 93 00:05:23,476 --> 00:05:26,476 Speaker 2: the information, if we don't have any shared sense of 94 00:05:26,476 --> 00:05:27,596 Speaker 2: what's going on out there. 95 00:05:28,116 --> 00:05:31,716 Speaker 6: That's more or less what Thomas Jefferson said, Our good buddy. 96 00:05:32,596 --> 00:05:35,636 Speaker 6: Wherever the people are well informed, they can be trusted 97 00:05:35,636 --> 00:05:36,636 Speaker 6: with their own government. 98 00:05:37,116 --> 00:05:39,596 Speaker 2: That's good because I only try to say things that 99 00:05:39,676 --> 00:05:44,196 Speaker 2: Thomas Jefferson said, you know that about it. That's when 100 00:05:44,236 --> 00:05:45,676 Speaker 2: I checked the child every time before I say so, 101 00:05:45,916 --> 00:05:47,476 Speaker 2: Did Thomas Jefferson say this? Okay? 102 00:05:47,676 --> 00:05:51,196 Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly right. We've picked on him a number of 103 00:05:51,196 --> 00:05:52,116 Speaker 6: times on this show. 104 00:05:52,396 --> 00:05:54,036 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean, look, he was right. You know 105 00:05:54,076 --> 00:05:56,316 Speaker 2: what I'm saying, being a slaveholder, a racist. That don't 106 00:05:56,316 --> 00:05:57,916 Speaker 2: mean you're not right about anything. 107 00:05:57,876 --> 00:06:03,036 Speaker 6: Right, But yeah, does anybody here think that the fourth estate, 108 00:06:03,436 --> 00:06:07,276 Speaker 6: the news media as it's now constructed, is doing its 109 00:06:07,396 --> 00:06:11,996 Speaker 6: job that Americaans are well enough informed to be trusted 110 00:06:11,996 --> 00:06:18,436 Speaker 6: with our own government. From the Keenan Institute for Ethics 111 00:06:18,436 --> 00:06:22,196 Speaker 6: at Duke University, Welcome to sin On Radio Season eight. 112 00:06:22,836 --> 00:06:25,196 Speaker 6: I'm John Bwen, producer and host of the show. 113 00:06:25,476 --> 00:06:28,236 Speaker 2: Now, I'm Chinjerrakumanika, excited to come back as. 114 00:06:28,076 --> 00:06:31,636 Speaker 6: The co host, jenj. You are an award winning podcast 115 00:06:31,676 --> 00:06:38,396 Speaker 6: maker Empire City on civil Unruly Subjects and seen on radio. 116 00:06:38,636 --> 00:06:41,236 Speaker 6: You were my co host for seasons two and four, 117 00:06:42,196 --> 00:06:45,396 Speaker 6: and you're a professor at New York University's Journalism School 118 00:06:45,836 --> 00:06:49,956 Speaker 6: with a PhD in Mass Communication and Critical Media studies, 119 00:06:50,716 --> 00:06:53,676 Speaker 6: so you're officially an expert on the thing we're here 120 00:06:53,676 --> 00:06:55,276 Speaker 6: to explore this time around. 121 00:06:55,516 --> 00:06:59,396 Speaker 2: Finally, you know what I'm saying. We in my lane. 122 00:06:59,476 --> 00:07:00,276 Speaker 2: Now you know what I mean. 123 00:07:01,036 --> 00:07:04,876 Speaker 6: You got the paper credentials. This time we're calling this 124 00:07:04,916 --> 00:07:08,596 Speaker 6: season the News. We're going to take a hard, deep 125 00:07:08,676 --> 00:07:11,556 Speaker 6: look the troubled state of the news media in the 126 00:07:11,676 --> 00:07:15,676 Speaker 6: US and how that crisis relates to the other profound 127 00:07:15,756 --> 00:07:19,636 Speaker 6: problems we seem unable or unwilling to solve. 128 00:07:20,196 --> 00:07:22,236 Speaker 2: Another key thing we're going to do is sort through 129 00:07:22,276 --> 00:07:25,636 Speaker 2: the various crises in our news and information system and 130 00:07:25,676 --> 00:07:28,716 Speaker 2: the most common reasons people say they're pissed about the media, 131 00:07:29,196 --> 00:07:32,476 Speaker 2: and we're going to ask what's really wrong? Is it 132 00:07:32,516 --> 00:07:33,316 Speaker 2: what we think it is. 133 00:07:33,796 --> 00:07:36,956 Speaker 6: We will do some history along the way. We might 134 00:07:37,076 --> 00:07:41,956 Speaker 6: challenge some mythology around journalistic tradition in America and parts 135 00:07:41,996 --> 00:07:45,276 Speaker 6: of US history itself for that matter, in ways that 136 00:07:45,356 --> 00:07:47,916 Speaker 6: could also shed light on how our news media are 137 00:07:48,036 --> 00:07:51,796 Speaker 6: failing us in this pivotal historical moment. 138 00:07:51,836 --> 00:07:55,116 Speaker 2: And eventually we're going to talk about solutions what it 139 00:07:55,236 --> 00:07:58,756 Speaker 2: might look like to unbreak the media, because the thing is, 140 00:07:59,436 --> 00:08:02,636 Speaker 2: this stuff really matters. The stakes are about as high 141 00:08:02,636 --> 00:08:03,316 Speaker 2: as they could be. 142 00:08:03,916 --> 00:08:06,876 Speaker 6: Media are so much a part of our lives that, 143 00:08:06,996 --> 00:08:10,276 Speaker 6: in a real sense, we're made of media. The media 144 00:08:10,396 --> 00:08:13,556 Speaker 6: helps to shape a society but also act as a 145 00:08:13,596 --> 00:08:15,676 Speaker 6: mirror showing us who we are. 146 00:08:16,156 --> 00:08:19,796 Speaker 2: And John, like I have a confession. We talk about 147 00:08:19,796 --> 00:08:22,516 Speaker 2: people being angry at the news media, and of course 148 00:08:22,556 --> 00:08:25,596 Speaker 2: folks are angry for wildly different reasons. But what I'm 149 00:08:25,636 --> 00:08:28,836 Speaker 2: looking at so called journalism that I see is completely 150 00:08:28,916 --> 00:08:32,076 Speaker 2: false and dishonest. I find myself getting mad at the 151 00:08:32,116 --> 00:08:34,596 Speaker 2: people who consume that news and believe it, Like why 152 00:08:34,716 --> 00:08:35,876 Speaker 2: y'all drinking and kool aid? 153 00:08:36,716 --> 00:08:40,036 Speaker 6: I know what you mean. And let's put a pin 154 00:08:40,116 --> 00:08:44,036 Speaker 6: in that thought, as they say, right now, before we 155 00:08:44,076 --> 00:08:47,476 Speaker 6: go further, just a quick note for the grammar purists. 156 00:08:47,996 --> 00:08:51,276 Speaker 6: Yes you will hear us do that thing that a 157 00:08:51,276 --> 00:08:53,916 Speaker 6: whole lot of people do now where we say the 158 00:08:53,956 --> 00:08:56,116 Speaker 6: media as if it's one thing. 159 00:08:56,356 --> 00:09:00,036 Speaker 2: Right, but the word is plural, and we'll never lose 160 00:09:00,036 --> 00:09:02,636 Speaker 2: sight of the fact that the media is a tangled web, 161 00:09:02,716 --> 00:09:03,476 Speaker 2: not a monolith. 162 00:09:05,876 --> 00:09:09,956 Speaker 6: Here in episode one. Let's start with us, not Tender 163 00:09:10,036 --> 00:09:15,036 Speaker 6: Eye and me, but us, everybody who consumes news media, 164 00:09:15,836 --> 00:09:18,476 Speaker 6: whether you take in a ton of it or hardly 165 00:09:18,516 --> 00:09:23,316 Speaker 6: any what drives us as we try to inform ourselves? 166 00:09:23,916 --> 00:09:26,116 Speaker 2: That's the question, you know what I'm saying. I mean, 167 00:09:26,156 --> 00:09:28,036 Speaker 2: we talk so much about whether we can trust our 168 00:09:28,076 --> 00:09:30,716 Speaker 2: news sources, but can we trust ourselves. 169 00:09:31,516 --> 00:09:33,836 Speaker 6: I've spent some time over the last year or so 170 00:09:34,156 --> 00:09:37,996 Speaker 6: in a corner of North Carolina talking with folks about 171 00:09:38,116 --> 00:09:41,196 Speaker 6: a lot of things, their politics, what their lives are like, 172 00:09:42,116 --> 00:09:43,316 Speaker 6: and about the news. 173 00:09:43,716 --> 00:09:45,756 Speaker 2: And why'd you go to that particular place. 174 00:09:46,196 --> 00:09:49,436 Speaker 6: It's a good question in one sense. We could have 175 00:09:49,476 --> 00:09:54,236 Speaker 6: gone almost anywhere. But as folks will hear throughout the season, 176 00:09:54,476 --> 00:09:57,476 Speaker 6: this patch of North Carolina, which is not far from 177 00:09:57,516 --> 00:10:00,396 Speaker 6: where I live, is a compelling place to see some 178 00:10:00,516 --> 00:10:03,996 Speaker 6: of the most pressing problems with our news media and 179 00:10:04,076 --> 00:10:07,716 Speaker 6: some impressive efforts to respond and fill the gaping holes 180 00:10:07,756 --> 00:10:11,316 Speaker 6: in the system. By the way, Chenje, you know, I 181 00:10:11,316 --> 00:10:14,076 Speaker 6: think it's safe to say some of those news consumers 182 00:10:14,156 --> 00:10:16,516 Speaker 6: you're frustrated with live in this place. 183 00:10:17,116 --> 00:10:22,236 Speaker 2: Ah Well, in that case, let me take a deep breath, Hi, 184 00:10:22,636 --> 00:10:23,796 Speaker 2: I can't wait to hear what you. 185 00:10:23,796 --> 00:10:28,956 Speaker 7: Found all your favorite country played back to back to 186 00:10:28,996 --> 00:10:30,356 Speaker 7: the eighth. 187 00:10:30,156 --> 00:10:30,676 Speaker 2: Country he. 188 00:10:32,796 --> 00:10:35,756 Speaker 6: Saw. We're going to refer to this part of North 189 00:10:35,796 --> 00:10:39,836 Speaker 6: Carolina as the border Belt. It's an old term used 190 00:10:39,876 --> 00:10:42,996 Speaker 6: over the last century for a tobacco growing region that 191 00:10:43,196 --> 00:10:46,636 Speaker 6: ran along both sides of the North and South Carolina border. 192 00:10:48,116 --> 00:10:50,956 Speaker 6: A lot of the tobacco's gone now. The farms grow 193 00:10:51,076 --> 00:10:55,276 Speaker 6: corn and soybeans and other crops. The radio signals in 194 00:10:55,316 --> 00:10:58,796 Speaker 6: these rural counties come from a ways off, mainly the 195 00:10:58,796 --> 00:11:02,916 Speaker 6: bigger cities of Wilmington and Fayetteville, and they sound like it. 196 00:11:03,196 --> 00:11:05,596 Speaker 2: So get your Wednesday off to a good storm with me. 197 00:11:05,796 --> 00:11:10,236 Speaker 4: Gilbert bays on Newstox exporting w FNC turn left on 198 00:11:10,276 --> 00:11:11,956 Speaker 4: the North Carolina forty one south. 199 00:11:12,316 --> 00:11:15,516 Speaker 6: I spent time just on the North Carolina side in 200 00:11:15,596 --> 00:11:19,076 Speaker 6: a cluster of counties Scotland and Robison to the west, 201 00:11:19,596 --> 00:11:24,756 Speaker 6: Bladen and Columbus to the east. This place is racially diverse, 202 00:11:25,076 --> 00:11:30,436 Speaker 6: with large white, Black, and indigenous populations, and long struggling 203 00:11:31,156 --> 00:11:33,956 Speaker 6: North Carolina ranks in the bottom half of states in 204 00:11:33,996 --> 00:11:37,956 Speaker 6: per capita income. In the border Belt, folks make twelve 205 00:11:37,996 --> 00:11:44,756 Speaker 6: to twenty thousand dollars less than the state average. There 206 00:11:44,756 --> 00:11:52,436 Speaker 6: are a lot of manufactured homes, trailer parks, single wides, 207 00:11:52,516 --> 00:11:56,996 Speaker 6: double wides, the kind of dotted everywhere was good. 208 00:11:57,956 --> 00:12:00,796 Speaker 2: Enemy with surprised guests, music and mortgage all in the 209 00:12:00,796 --> 00:12:03,796 Speaker 2: breakfast club weekday mornings Ontville, there's still number one station 210 00:12:03,876 --> 00:12:05,556 Speaker 2: for hip hop and R and B, the big stick 211 00:12:05,636 --> 00:12:06,556 Speaker 2: Boxy ninety nine. 212 00:12:07,236 --> 00:12:10,396 Speaker 6: Most of these counties are also what are called news deserts. 213 00:12:11,236 --> 00:12:14,396 Speaker 6: That means they have no more than one local news source, 214 00:12:15,116 --> 00:12:18,516 Speaker 6: and often the surviving newspapers have shriveled to a few 215 00:12:18,556 --> 00:12:22,036 Speaker 6: pages of mostly sports and features. They don't print a 216 00:12:22,076 --> 00:12:22,916 Speaker 6: whole lot of news. 217 00:12:24,116 --> 00:12:25,876 Speaker 8: And John, you want to come in or you want 218 00:12:25,916 --> 00:12:26,756 Speaker 8: to sit on a porch. 219 00:12:27,356 --> 00:12:29,516 Speaker 6: I talk to a range of people in the Border 220 00:12:29,556 --> 00:12:31,556 Speaker 6: Belt about their media diets. 221 00:12:32,036 --> 00:12:34,756 Speaker 8: I usually sit here and have my coffee, and I'm 222 00:12:34,756 --> 00:12:36,956 Speaker 8: sitting here on the couch and I'm watching the news 223 00:12:37,876 --> 00:12:41,476 Speaker 8: local stations which are located in Wilmington, but they carry 224 00:12:41,556 --> 00:12:42,196 Speaker 8: this area. 225 00:12:42,516 --> 00:12:44,236 Speaker 10: I don't watch a lot of news, but what I 226 00:12:44,836 --> 00:12:47,316 Speaker 10: watch Newsmax or Fox. 227 00:12:47,596 --> 00:12:50,956 Speaker 8: I try not to get my news from social media 228 00:12:51,036 --> 00:12:52,996 Speaker 8: too much, but sometimes I'm scrolling through Twitter and I 229 00:12:53,036 --> 00:12:55,476 Speaker 8: see something and it catches my eye. 230 00:12:55,596 --> 00:12:58,316 Speaker 12: I still think that a lot of our people get 231 00:12:58,356 --> 00:13:02,316 Speaker 12: their information from their local radio station too. Whatever they 232 00:13:02,356 --> 00:13:04,956 Speaker 12: play in between songs and stuff like that, whatever top 233 00:13:04,996 --> 00:13:05,676 Speaker 12: of news update. 234 00:13:09,676 --> 00:13:12,156 Speaker 6: We're gonna spend more time getting to know this guy, 235 00:13:12,556 --> 00:13:16,916 Speaker 6: Ethan Jordan. I find him in Columbus County. He's driving 236 00:13:16,916 --> 00:13:20,476 Speaker 6: a big John Deere tractor pulling a planting rig down 237 00:13:20,476 --> 00:13:24,236 Speaker 6: the road near his family's place. I can just leave 238 00:13:24,276 --> 00:13:32,436 Speaker 6: it here. I climbed the ladder to his two person tractor. 239 00:13:32,436 --> 00:13:34,196 Speaker 3: Cap you got enough room to make it work. 240 00:13:34,316 --> 00:13:37,396 Speaker 6: Oh yeah, how you doing good? 241 00:13:37,676 --> 00:13:38,316 Speaker 10: Nice to meet you here. 242 00:13:38,396 --> 00:13:40,796 Speaker 3: Let me get indoor a little bit better, so ran. 243 00:13:41,916 --> 00:13:45,236 Speaker 6: Ethan's in his late twenties. He has reddish brown hair 244 00:13:45,276 --> 00:13:50,516 Speaker 6: and a round face. He and his family raised corn, soybeans, peanuts, 245 00:13:50,516 --> 00:13:53,956 Speaker 6: and beef cattle. On this April day, he's planting corn 246 00:13:54,836 --> 00:13:55,276 Speaker 6: right here. 247 00:13:55,556 --> 00:13:59,156 Speaker 10: Will we farm total twenty two hundred acres between me 248 00:13:59,196 --> 00:14:02,276 Speaker 10: and my dad and two employees. I believe if you 249 00:14:02,316 --> 00:14:05,036 Speaker 10: get back, I'm the eighth generation at Jordan Farman on 250 00:14:05,076 --> 00:14:07,356 Speaker 10: this land that we're on right now. 251 00:14:07,396 --> 00:14:09,596 Speaker 3: Actually, this is so many regional fall we're on. 252 00:14:10,276 --> 00:14:12,916 Speaker 6: In front of Ethan in the cab are a half 253 00:14:13,036 --> 00:14:17,316 Speaker 6: dozen screens. They monitor the seed and fertilizer. He's dropping 254 00:14:17,636 --> 00:14:21,996 Speaker 6: the weather conditions, the technology that's doing the driving, Yes. 255 00:14:21,916 --> 00:14:24,476 Speaker 10: Sir, that's my GPS, which controls the auto year. As 256 00:14:24,476 --> 00:14:26,596 Speaker 10: you see, I'm not touching the steerwheel and it's steering. 257 00:14:27,156 --> 00:14:29,756 Speaker 6: And for the long hours he spends in the tractor, 258 00:14:29,996 --> 00:14:31,716 Speaker 6: he also has media handy. 259 00:14:31,876 --> 00:14:34,516 Speaker 10: I know, I have Fox News on this iPad and 260 00:14:34,636 --> 00:14:36,996 Speaker 10: I will watch Fox News from time to time. And 261 00:14:37,196 --> 00:14:41,476 Speaker 10: it's not Newsmax's that ad that has all the news 262 00:14:41,516 --> 00:14:41,716 Speaker 10: in it. 263 00:14:41,756 --> 00:14:46,236 Speaker 3: Well, you see, I have Fox News here, but there's 264 00:14:46,276 --> 00:14:49,036 Speaker 3: an app that I can't call the name of right now. 265 00:14:49,756 --> 00:14:52,996 Speaker 6: He finds it his go to news aggregator. 266 00:14:53,316 --> 00:14:55,716 Speaker 10: Right here's this app right here, matter of fact news 267 00:14:55,796 --> 00:14:57,476 Speaker 10: break news break app. 268 00:14:57,556 --> 00:15:00,436 Speaker 3: And it kind of you know, I guess it goes. 269 00:15:00,316 --> 00:15:02,596 Speaker 10: Through your algorithm of what you look up and stuff 270 00:15:02,636 --> 00:15:04,876 Speaker 10: like that, because if you look at mine, talks about 271 00:15:04,916 --> 00:15:08,876 Speaker 10: farmers react to Trump's tariffs, tells me about the local 272 00:15:08,956 --> 00:15:11,956 Speaker 10: news news and so that I have that that pops 273 00:15:12,036 --> 00:15:16,756 Speaker 10: up and it'll be anywhere from CNBC to WCT the 274 00:15:16,956 --> 00:15:21,356 Speaker 10: daily Daily Beast, I don't know, but anyway, it just 275 00:15:21,396 --> 00:15:24,236 Speaker 10: shows you know, local and national news and if it's 276 00:15:24,316 --> 00:15:27,716 Speaker 10: national news. It's more related to what I look up, 277 00:15:27,716 --> 00:15:31,636 Speaker 10: which is obviously farming's, you know, agricultural related topics. 278 00:15:32,316 --> 00:15:34,156 Speaker 3: It's where I get a lot of my news from. 279 00:15:34,676 --> 00:15:37,276 Speaker 10: To say I actually sit down and watch the news, 280 00:15:37,996 --> 00:15:38,996 Speaker 10: it's kind of hard to say. 281 00:15:39,036 --> 00:15:39,196 Speaker 9: Now. 282 00:15:39,236 --> 00:15:41,556 Speaker 10: We'll watch it if something interested is going on on 283 00:15:41,596 --> 00:15:44,196 Speaker 10: the iPad, if I'm in a trat to running it. 284 00:15:45,196 --> 00:15:48,596 Speaker 6: Ethan lives with his fiance. He's a lawyer. There's a 285 00:15:48,596 --> 00:15:52,436 Speaker 6: local newspaper, the News Reporter, out of nearby Whiteville, that 286 00:15:52,516 --> 00:15:56,636 Speaker 6: comes out twice a week. Ethan sometimes looks at its website, 287 00:15:56,716 --> 00:15:59,396 Speaker 6: but he and his fiance don't subscribe. 288 00:15:59,436 --> 00:16:01,516 Speaker 3: And I've lived by myself. 289 00:16:01,596 --> 00:16:04,396 Speaker 10: I lived out of my parents' house for now going 290 00:16:04,436 --> 00:16:06,276 Speaker 10: on the fifth year, and I can say I've. 291 00:16:06,116 --> 00:16:10,036 Speaker 3: Honestly never had a newspaper in my house or even 292 00:16:10,116 --> 00:16:11,876 Speaker 3: picking one up. I know, there's not want to have 293 00:16:11,916 --> 00:16:14,316 Speaker 3: been in my house. My parents get one every week. 294 00:16:14,436 --> 00:16:19,116 Speaker 6: But for local news, he relies on Facebook, which includes 295 00:16:19,236 --> 00:16:23,596 Speaker 6: reports from nearby outlets and comments from the community. He 296 00:16:23,716 --> 00:16:26,836 Speaker 6: mentions a recent criminal incident in a nearby town. 297 00:16:27,036 --> 00:16:29,156 Speaker 3: We're sitting there talking with a group of friends, and 298 00:16:29,516 --> 00:16:30,756 Speaker 3: where'd you read that at? Oh? 299 00:16:30,836 --> 00:16:34,156 Speaker 10: If you go on Facebook, look at WWA wise post 300 00:16:34,156 --> 00:16:36,076 Speaker 10: about it, but look at the comments and you can 301 00:16:36,116 --> 00:16:39,356 Speaker 10: see the video, So now you kind of you know, 302 00:16:39,396 --> 00:16:43,276 Speaker 10: you look at Facebook, cause yeah, the papers and you 303 00:16:43,276 --> 00:16:46,116 Speaker 10: know they'll tell you about it. But a lot of 304 00:16:46,116 --> 00:16:48,396 Speaker 10: times you can read through the comments and find somebody 305 00:16:48,436 --> 00:16:51,996 Speaker 10: who actually lived it and see their opinion, and you know, 306 00:16:52,116 --> 00:16:55,556 Speaker 10: sometimes opinions are biased, but you do get kind of 307 00:16:55,556 --> 00:16:58,396 Speaker 10: seen more of a real live feeling by reading the comments. 308 00:16:58,636 --> 00:17:01,116 Speaker 10: So a lot of my news not gonna say I 309 00:17:01,196 --> 00:17:04,356 Speaker 10: trust Facebook by no stretching, no matter, because everybody has 310 00:17:04,396 --> 00:17:06,716 Speaker 10: a different opinion, but you can kind of see the 311 00:17:06,796 --> 00:17:08,036 Speaker 10: gist of what's going on. 312 00:17:09,276 --> 00:17:13,156 Speaker 6: Ethan votes Republican, along with everybody in his family and 313 00:17:13,276 --> 00:17:17,996 Speaker 6: their neighbors. He says, Historically, this region, white folks included, 314 00:17:18,516 --> 00:17:21,916 Speaker 6: voted for Democrats. Until ten or twenty years ago. 315 00:17:22,196 --> 00:17:23,916 Speaker 10: We were all Democrats and in all of a sudden, 316 00:17:23,956 --> 00:17:27,036 Speaker 10: we woke up one day and we're Republicans. 317 00:17:27,636 --> 00:17:29,916 Speaker 6: As much as we all rely on the media to 318 00:17:30,036 --> 00:17:33,876 Speaker 6: get information and to decide how to vote, it's worth 319 00:17:33,956 --> 00:17:37,236 Speaker 6: highlighting what Ethan says when I ask who he voted 320 00:17:37,276 --> 00:17:40,636 Speaker 6: for in the North Carolina governor's race in twenty twenty. 321 00:17:40,396 --> 00:17:42,916 Speaker 3: Four, Mark Robinson, Yes, I did. 322 00:17:43,556 --> 00:17:46,876 Speaker 6: You may remember hearing about Mark Robinson, no matter how 323 00:17:46,956 --> 00:17:50,356 Speaker 6: far you are from North Carolina. He was the Republican 324 00:17:50,396 --> 00:17:55,516 Speaker 6: nominee who lost to Democrat Josh Stein. Robinson made international 325 00:17:55,556 --> 00:17:59,516 Speaker 6: news for inflammatory statements he apparently made, including on a 326 00:17:59,596 --> 00:18:05,436 Speaker 6: porn website maligning Martin Luther King, defending Hitler, questioning the Holocaust, 327 00:18:05,916 --> 00:18:10,156 Speaker 6: and calling himself a black Nazi. Ethan tells me he 328 00:18:10,236 --> 00:18:14,556 Speaker 6: had to choose between the two candidates, suggesting it was 329 00:18:14,556 --> 00:18:18,316 Speaker 6: a vote for his preferred party, but he also says 330 00:18:18,356 --> 00:18:19,516 Speaker 6: this about Robinson. 331 00:18:19,756 --> 00:18:22,596 Speaker 10: I had met him personally, So I mean that's you know, 332 00:18:22,676 --> 00:18:27,156 Speaker 10: that's I look at politics different than some people. You know, 333 00:18:27,196 --> 00:18:30,036 Speaker 10: you got diehard Republicans, you got diehard Democrats, you got 334 00:18:30,036 --> 00:18:30,716 Speaker 10: diehard Livers. 335 00:18:30,756 --> 00:18:32,516 Speaker 3: And there's other parties on them. You know, there's a 336 00:18:32,556 --> 00:18:33,636 Speaker 3: whole list of Now. 337 00:18:35,556 --> 00:18:37,876 Speaker 10: I look at the ones like that that I've personally 338 00:18:37,876 --> 00:18:40,276 Speaker 10: had shook her hand or met him personally. 339 00:18:40,316 --> 00:18:41,476 Speaker 3: And I had met Mark Robinson. 340 00:18:41,516 --> 00:18:43,956 Speaker 10: He spent some time down in Clumbs County, and I 341 00:18:43,996 --> 00:18:45,076 Speaker 10: had met him personally. 342 00:18:45,116 --> 00:18:48,596 Speaker 3: So he probably didn't remember my name or know who 343 00:18:48,636 --> 00:18:50,796 Speaker 3: I was, but he called my name one time. He 344 00:18:50,836 --> 00:18:51,476 Speaker 3: shook my hand. 345 00:18:51,556 --> 00:18:55,236 Speaker 10: So, I mean, if you feel like you got a close, 346 00:18:55,236 --> 00:18:58,156 Speaker 10: little personal connection with him, that's kind of way I 347 00:18:58,196 --> 00:18:59,956 Speaker 10: look at whether you're a Democrat Republican. 348 00:19:00,836 --> 00:19:04,116 Speaker 6: Maybe there's still special power in what comes to us 349 00:19:04,156 --> 00:19:08,316 Speaker 6: not from a screen, but through in person experience, the 350 00:19:08,316 --> 00:19:10,676 Speaker 6: way people use to learn most of what they knew 351 00:19:10,716 --> 00:19:15,796 Speaker 6: about the world. Despite his conservative views, Ethan says he 352 00:19:15,876 --> 00:19:18,996 Speaker 6: finds Fox News too far to the right at times 353 00:19:19,436 --> 00:19:23,236 Speaker 6: when it harps too much on gun rights or undocumented immigrants. 354 00:19:24,116 --> 00:19:27,316 Speaker 6: But then a network like the NBC will annoy him 355 00:19:27,356 --> 00:19:28,836 Speaker 6: even more in the other direction. 356 00:19:28,996 --> 00:19:33,356 Speaker 10: When you're in the election, it was always negative on Trump, 357 00:19:33,396 --> 00:19:36,596 Speaker 10: negative on Trump constantly, you know, this, that and the other, 358 00:19:37,036 --> 00:19:38,156 Speaker 10: and you know, and I kind. 359 00:19:37,956 --> 00:19:40,196 Speaker 3: Of look at it. I'm like, well, everybody's not perfect. 360 00:19:40,516 --> 00:19:45,876 Speaker 10: But when y'all were pro forward Kamala, you were pro Kamala, Like, 361 00:19:45,956 --> 00:19:48,116 Speaker 10: I can find problems with her too, just as good 362 00:19:48,116 --> 00:19:50,836 Speaker 10: as you can find with Trump. It's kind of you know, 363 00:19:50,836 --> 00:19:53,756 Speaker 10: if you don't tell the story, tell it on both sides, 364 00:19:54,156 --> 00:19:56,116 Speaker 10: tell the bat pros and the cons of both, not 365 00:19:56,276 --> 00:19:57,876 Speaker 10: just constantly. 366 00:19:57,396 --> 00:20:00,356 Speaker 3: Over and over and over and over again. And that's 367 00:20:00,436 --> 00:20:02,476 Speaker 3: where I'd get irritated. And not want to listen to it. 368 00:20:16,556 --> 00:20:18,756 Speaker 6: Hey, Tene, what are you thinking so far? 369 00:20:19,276 --> 00:20:22,996 Speaker 2: Well, I gotta say I really like listening to Ethan, 370 00:20:23,356 --> 00:20:26,916 Speaker 2: you know, and I'm not mad at him. I mean, 371 00:20:26,916 --> 00:20:30,036 Speaker 2: if you said to me, white North Carolina farmer who 372 00:20:30,116 --> 00:20:33,076 Speaker 2: votes Republican, I feel like I was going to picture 373 00:20:33,116 --> 00:20:36,716 Speaker 2: somebody very different, somebody who's maybe not as open or 374 00:20:37,076 --> 00:20:40,036 Speaker 2: really just has their mind made up. Now I would 375 00:20:40,116 --> 00:20:42,836 Speaker 2: like to hear Ethan explain why he voted for Mark Robinson, 376 00:20:43,196 --> 00:20:46,316 Speaker 2: who's a Holocaust denier who called himself a black Nazi 377 00:20:46,436 --> 00:20:50,236 Speaker 2: for governor. So there is that part, yeah, But putting 378 00:20:50,236 --> 00:20:53,356 Speaker 2: that aside for a second, just listening to him, I 379 00:20:53,396 --> 00:20:55,276 Speaker 2: got a feel for where he's at, even though we 380 00:20:55,316 --> 00:20:56,596 Speaker 2: only heard him for a few minutes. 381 00:20:56,916 --> 00:20:59,756 Speaker 6: You wouldn't vote for the people he votes for, you're saying, 382 00:20:59,796 --> 00:21:03,156 Speaker 6: But he comes across as a sincere person doing his 383 00:21:03,236 --> 00:21:04,676 Speaker 6: best to make sense at things, right. 384 00:21:05,276 --> 00:21:08,316 Speaker 2: Yeah, like based on the information he has, you know 385 00:21:08,356 --> 00:21:09,916 Speaker 2: what I'm saying. When he talked, it's about the news. 386 00:21:09,956 --> 00:21:12,796 Speaker 2: He pays attention to. He sounds real familiar to me. 387 00:21:13,436 --> 00:21:16,716 Speaker 2: He wants the facts, he wants fairness, and when the 388 00:21:16,756 --> 00:21:20,196 Speaker 2: news tells them something very different, from what he and 389 00:21:20,236 --> 00:21:23,556 Speaker 2: the people around him think is true. Then it sounds 390 00:21:23,836 --> 00:21:27,836 Speaker 2: unfair or oversimplified that makes him want to change the 391 00:21:27,916 --> 00:21:29,756 Speaker 2: channel or tap over to a different source. 392 00:21:30,436 --> 00:21:32,876 Speaker 6: We said this episode was going to be about us, 393 00:21:33,396 --> 00:21:35,836 Speaker 6: those of us on the receiving end of the news. 394 00:21:37,116 --> 00:21:40,996 Speaker 6: I talked to an expert who has fascinating insights into 395 00:21:41,236 --> 00:21:46,316 Speaker 6: our biases as news consumers, including how changes in our 396 00:21:46,356 --> 00:21:48,716 Speaker 6: society have amplified those biases. 397 00:21:49,836 --> 00:21:52,676 Speaker 4: Often when I'm talking about this to audiences, I'll say, 398 00:21:52,716 --> 00:21:54,636 Speaker 4: you know, how many of you would say that your 399 00:21:54,676 --> 00:21:57,036 Speaker 4: main goal as you're engaging with the world is to 400 00:21:57,116 --> 00:22:00,556 Speaker 4: be accurate in what you perceive. And everyone raises their 401 00:22:00,596 --> 00:22:04,236 Speaker 4: hand and I'm like, actually, it's not, Actually, you're wrong. 402 00:22:04,636 --> 00:22:06,036 Speaker 6: This is Dana gal Young. 403 00:22:06,396 --> 00:22:09,476 Speaker 4: I'm a professor of communication and political science at the 404 00:22:09,596 --> 00:22:13,596 Speaker 4: University of Delaware, where I direct the Center for Political Communication. 405 00:22:14,156 --> 00:22:18,916 Speaker 6: Young studies how people process information in connection with our politics. 406 00:22:19,676 --> 00:22:23,796 Speaker 6: She wrote the recent book Wrong, How media, politics and 407 00:22:23,916 --> 00:22:28,596 Speaker 6: identity drive our appetite for misinformation. Danna says, when you 408 00:22:28,676 --> 00:22:32,116 Speaker 6: turn on a cable news and opinion channel or go 409 00:22:32,196 --> 00:22:36,876 Speaker 6: to a news website, you're bringing along deep desires needs 410 00:22:36,956 --> 00:22:41,596 Speaker 6: really that go well beyond wanting accurate information, your. 411 00:22:41,436 --> 00:22:43,676 Speaker 4: Goal is not to be accurate, because your goal really 412 00:22:43,716 --> 00:22:47,116 Speaker 4: is survival. And there are three areas that sort of 413 00:22:47,116 --> 00:22:50,156 Speaker 4: speak to survival needs, that serve as sort of the 414 00:22:50,236 --> 00:22:55,316 Speaker 4: underbelly of human survival. They all facilitate action, because in 415 00:22:55,396 --> 00:22:57,556 Speaker 4: order to survive, you need to act in your own 416 00:22:57,596 --> 00:23:04,436 Speaker 4: survival interests. So those three needs are comprehension, control, and community. 417 00:23:05,556 --> 00:23:08,436 Speaker 6: As we go about our lives, we want to feel 418 00:23:08,436 --> 00:23:10,796 Speaker 6: that we know so basically what the hell is going 419 00:23:10,836 --> 00:23:13,356 Speaker 6: on in our world, and we want to feel some 420 00:23:13,476 --> 00:23:17,796 Speaker 6: ability to control what happens to us. But Danna says, 421 00:23:17,916 --> 00:23:22,396 Speaker 6: maybe even more important than comprehension and control is that 422 00:23:22,516 --> 00:23:25,036 Speaker 6: third C word community. 423 00:23:25,236 --> 00:23:27,796 Speaker 4: And this simply captures the notion that we are social 424 00:23:27,876 --> 00:23:33,076 Speaker 4: animals who do not exist truly as individuals in a vacuum. 425 00:23:33,476 --> 00:23:37,836 Speaker 4: We only exist embedded within a social context. And that 426 00:23:37,916 --> 00:23:41,916 Speaker 4: has to do with how we were able to survive historically. 427 00:23:42,396 --> 00:23:47,596 Speaker 4: Even here in the US. That notion, even of ardent individualism, 428 00:23:47,996 --> 00:23:51,316 Speaker 4: is itself, believe it or not, a group norm. We 429 00:23:51,436 --> 00:23:57,036 Speaker 4: are individualists because everyone around us also prizes that value 430 00:23:57,036 --> 00:24:00,716 Speaker 4: of individualism, which I think is kind of hilariously ironic. 431 00:24:01,196 --> 00:24:03,756 Speaker 6: So Jung says, as we take in the news, we 432 00:24:03,876 --> 00:24:07,476 Speaker 6: do so consciously or not, as members of the social 433 00:24:07,516 --> 00:24:11,116 Speaker 6: groups we identify with, and in a country that's bitterly 434 00:24:11,196 --> 00:24:17,156 Speaker 6: divided politically, most Americans identify with a political team. We 435 00:24:17,276 --> 00:24:20,076 Speaker 6: might as well be wearing our team's uniform as we 436 00:24:20,116 --> 00:24:21,276 Speaker 6: go looking for news. 437 00:24:21,596 --> 00:24:24,676 Speaker 4: That means that when we comprehend the world, we're going 438 00:24:24,716 --> 00:24:27,356 Speaker 4: to comprehend the world the same way that our team does, 439 00:24:27,796 --> 00:24:29,596 Speaker 4: and we're going to want to comprehend the world in 440 00:24:29,676 --> 00:24:32,476 Speaker 4: ways that make our team look good. 441 00:24:33,196 --> 00:24:37,956 Speaker 6: Dana is talking about general human tendencies in part, but 442 00:24:38,036 --> 00:24:42,196 Speaker 6: it hasn't always been like this, She says, Historical trends 443 00:24:42,316 --> 00:24:46,116 Speaker 6: in the US in politics and the media have helped 444 00:24:46,116 --> 00:24:50,836 Speaker 6: to intensify our divisions. These changes have made Americans less 445 00:24:50,876 --> 00:24:54,796 Speaker 6: open to information we don't like and more vulnerable to 446 00:24:54,916 --> 00:24:58,996 Speaker 6: miss and disinformation. To start with, she points to the 447 00:24:59,076 --> 00:25:02,196 Speaker 6: sorting of the political parties starting in the middle of 448 00:25:02,236 --> 00:25:03,276 Speaker 6: the twentieth century. 449 00:25:03,676 --> 00:25:07,476 Speaker 4: Up until the fifties and sixties, our two major political 450 00:25:07,516 --> 00:25:11,996 Speaker 4: parties were actually quite mixed in terms of policy positions, 451 00:25:12,196 --> 00:25:14,956 Speaker 4: in terms of the kinds of people who identified with each, 452 00:25:15,516 --> 00:25:18,196 Speaker 4: in terms of where those people lived in terms of 453 00:25:18,236 --> 00:25:23,916 Speaker 4: the religious identification of the people within the parties. And 454 00:25:23,996 --> 00:25:26,356 Speaker 4: part of the reason that that was the case was 455 00:25:26,436 --> 00:25:31,276 Speaker 4: because there was this great compromise that was made on 456 00:25:31,356 --> 00:25:33,836 Speaker 4: the issue of race in the United States. 457 00:25:34,196 --> 00:25:36,556 Speaker 6: That's a nice way of saying the two parties were 458 00:25:36,596 --> 00:25:39,676 Speaker 6: pretty much in sync white supremacy wise. 459 00:25:39,956 --> 00:25:46,116 Speaker 4: Both the Democratic Party and the Republican Party had members, 460 00:25:46,276 --> 00:25:52,076 Speaker 4: elite members within them who supported the idea of states rights, 461 00:25:52,116 --> 00:25:58,076 Speaker 4: who supported the idea of the disempowerment of African American people. 462 00:26:01,956 --> 00:26:04,956 Speaker 6: As millions of black people migrated out of the Jim 463 00:26:04,996 --> 00:26:09,796 Speaker 6: Crow South, populating northern cities and turning into voters, that 464 00:26:09,876 --> 00:26:14,636 Speaker 6: put pressure on the Democrats and gave them an opportunity. 465 00:26:14,236 --> 00:26:16,516 Speaker 4: And we ended up with that sort of great racial 466 00:26:16,556 --> 00:26:19,716 Speaker 4: realignment where the Democratic Party became the party of civil 467 00:26:19,796 --> 00:26:23,476 Speaker 4: rights and the Republican Party became the party in opposition 468 00:26:24,196 --> 00:26:25,036 Speaker 4: to that movement. 469 00:26:25,676 --> 00:26:29,436 Speaker 6: Most black people moved from the GOP, the Party of Lincoln, 470 00:26:29,836 --> 00:26:34,476 Speaker 6: to the Democrats. Most white Southerners and other conservative white people, 471 00:26:34,836 --> 00:26:39,596 Speaker 6: many of whom had been Democrats, joined the Republicans. Other 472 00:26:39,716 --> 00:26:44,596 Speaker 6: kinds of sorting followed. Evangelical Christians and people in rural 473 00:26:44,636 --> 00:26:50,476 Speaker 6: places turned mostly Republican, while secular and city people grew 474 00:26:50,636 --> 00:26:52,756 Speaker 6: more overwhelmingly. 475 00:26:51,956 --> 00:27:01,556 Speaker 4: Democratic, such that the Republican Party of today is overwhelmingly white, rural, Christian, 476 00:27:01,916 --> 00:27:06,716 Speaker 4: and culturally conservative, and the Democratic Party today is overwhelmingly 477 00:27:06,836 --> 00:27:12,436 Speaker 4: racially and ethnically diverse, secular, acts, gnostic, urban, suburban, and 478 00:27:12,836 --> 00:27:14,916 Speaker 4: culturally and ideologically liberal. 479 00:27:16,276 --> 00:27:20,836 Speaker 6: Research has found that increased homogeneity within a political party 480 00:27:21,396 --> 00:27:24,996 Speaker 6: serves to crank up the emotional temperature for those on 481 00:27:25,116 --> 00:27:25,876 Speaker 6: that side. 482 00:27:25,996 --> 00:27:29,356 Speaker 4: There is something primal in us that happens when we 483 00:27:29,436 --> 00:27:32,676 Speaker 4: look like our team, we live like our team, we 484 00:27:32,716 --> 00:27:35,516 Speaker 4: live in the same places as our team, we worship 485 00:27:35,636 --> 00:27:39,316 Speaker 4: like our team. There's something really primal that ignites in 486 00:27:39,396 --> 00:27:42,756 Speaker 4: us because we have such good group fit. That is 487 00:27:42,796 --> 00:27:46,156 Speaker 4: what has happened in American politics. And it's happened in 488 00:27:46,196 --> 00:27:50,036 Speaker 4: a way that is not symmetrical, because, as you may 489 00:27:50,076 --> 00:27:54,036 Speaker 4: have noticed, as I described it, in the Republican Party, 490 00:27:54,476 --> 00:27:59,276 Speaker 4: those identity categories are far more homogeneous than they are 491 00:27:59,316 --> 00:28:04,196 Speaker 4: within the Democratic Party. And so the engine runs fast 492 00:28:04,356 --> 00:28:07,996 Speaker 4: and furiously on the right in the US right. 493 00:28:07,876 --> 00:28:13,516 Speaker 6: Now is the engine of visceral us against them sentiment. 494 00:28:14,476 --> 00:28:18,716 Speaker 6: But that's not just a Republican thing. Political scientists have 495 00:28:18,836 --> 00:28:24,116 Speaker 6: documented an increase in what they call affective polarization. 496 00:28:23,636 --> 00:28:26,396 Speaker 4: And that is simply the extent to which regular people 497 00:28:26,756 --> 00:28:32,716 Speaker 4: members of the public dislike members of the other political party. 498 00:28:33,036 --> 00:28:36,516 Speaker 4: That does seem to be pretty equal across the parties. 499 00:28:36,676 --> 00:28:40,636 Speaker 4: Democrats don't like Republicans, and Republicans don't like Democrats. It's 500 00:28:40,636 --> 00:28:43,636 Speaker 4: not necessarily that we become more radical on our position 501 00:28:43,716 --> 00:28:47,156 Speaker 4: on gun ConTroll or abortion. It's more that I just 502 00:28:47,236 --> 00:28:51,196 Speaker 4: hate people who feel opposite me or which is interesting, 503 00:28:57,276 --> 00:28:58,356 Speaker 4: so change. 504 00:28:58,756 --> 00:29:01,756 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, what Dana Gal is really saying is 505 00:29:01,796 --> 00:29:05,356 Speaker 2: that news consumers in the US are less open minded 506 00:29:05,356 --> 00:29:09,636 Speaker 2: than ever, less willing to be persuaded by information conflicts 507 00:29:09,676 --> 00:29:10,716 Speaker 2: with what we already believe. 508 00:29:11,516 --> 00:29:15,996 Speaker 6: Yes, now stir in the social media algorithms that feed 509 00:29:16,076 --> 00:29:21,876 Speaker 6: us rage bait and in general are fragmented, often blatantly partisan, 510 00:29:22,156 --> 00:29:26,396 Speaker 6: us against them media environment. I grabbed a couple clips. 511 00:29:26,516 --> 00:29:30,156 Speaker 6: This is Sean Hannity of Fox News and Rachel Matdow 512 00:29:30,276 --> 00:29:34,716 Speaker 6: of MS Now. Notice in each case, the talk about them, 513 00:29:35,316 --> 00:29:37,236 Speaker 6: They the other side. 514 00:29:37,436 --> 00:29:40,516 Speaker 13: They want you to feel pain, they want it. 515 00:29:40,756 --> 00:29:43,076 Speaker 6: They want you to pay more at the pump, they 516 00:29:43,196 --> 00:29:45,076 Speaker 6: want your energy bills to be hired. 517 00:29:45,076 --> 00:29:48,076 Speaker 5: The chief threat among them now is not the rioters 518 00:29:48,076 --> 00:29:51,116 Speaker 5: and the coops, but the slick political professionals who are 519 00:29:51,116 --> 00:29:55,916 Speaker 5: turning their considerable talents to laundering violently revolutionary claims that 520 00:29:55,956 --> 00:29:57,356 Speaker 5: America's elections aren't real. 521 00:29:57,676 --> 00:30:00,436 Speaker 2: So when all the talk about so called political polarization 522 00:30:00,556 --> 00:30:02,996 Speaker 2: in America, there is a tendency to think that the 523 00:30:03,036 --> 00:30:06,476 Speaker 2: fragmenting of the media into a thousand sources all saying 524 00:30:06,516 --> 00:30:09,956 Speaker 2: different things, that's the problem. And if we could just 525 00:30:09,996 --> 00:30:13,156 Speaker 2: go back to a time when everyone watched Walter Cronkite 526 00:30:13,436 --> 00:30:16,356 Speaker 2: or Peter Jennings, we'd come together again. 527 00:30:16,356 --> 00:30:16,916 Speaker 3: As a nation. 528 00:30:18,276 --> 00:30:21,636 Speaker 6: And I'm just going to guess, partly bring your tone 529 00:30:21,636 --> 00:30:25,156 Speaker 6: of voice, but also knowing you that you're not really 530 00:30:25,196 --> 00:30:28,436 Speaker 6: buying it. Professor Kumanika, for one thing, I know you 531 00:30:28,476 --> 00:30:31,516 Speaker 6: well enough to know you don't believe there was once 532 00:30:31,596 --> 00:30:35,436 Speaker 6: upon a time when the major media told the American 533 00:30:35,476 --> 00:30:38,876 Speaker 6: people the unvarnished truth on all the important questions. 534 00:30:39,396 --> 00:30:42,756 Speaker 2: Right when was the media telling people the truth about 535 00:30:42,756 --> 00:30:46,276 Speaker 2: white supremacy and how pervasive it is, the truth about 536 00:30:46,596 --> 00:30:49,316 Speaker 2: US history and how brutal it is, or the truth 537 00:30:49,316 --> 00:30:51,956 Speaker 2: about US behavior around the world. Right in the way 538 00:30:51,956 --> 00:30:55,436 Speaker 2: America's economic system works, why folks are struggling to get by, 539 00:30:56,116 --> 00:30:59,316 Speaker 2: And also this idea that Americans used to agree on things, 540 00:30:59,636 --> 00:31:04,476 Speaker 2: that we really ever had this consensus as a society. Nah, 541 00:31:04,636 --> 00:31:06,716 Speaker 2: I mean that was more of a consensus maybe among 542 00:31:06,756 --> 00:31:11,116 Speaker 2: white people, especially white men, middle class and above, who 543 00:31:11,196 --> 00:31:12,636 Speaker 2: held all the power in the country. 544 00:31:12,876 --> 00:31:15,636 Speaker 6: Yeah, But lots of other people who didn't fit that 545 00:31:15,716 --> 00:31:20,796 Speaker 6: description and saw a very different reality were just left 546 00:31:20,836 --> 00:31:22,956 Speaker 6: out of the public conversation for the most part. 547 00:31:23,236 --> 00:31:25,836 Speaker 2: Yeah. And if you kind of are sure you want 548 00:31:25,876 --> 00:31:28,196 Speaker 2: some receipts on that, I encourage you to go check 549 00:31:28,236 --> 00:31:29,716 Speaker 2: the other seasons of this podcast. 550 00:31:30,756 --> 00:31:34,556 Speaker 6: But there are other reasons to doubt that somehow reversing 551 00:31:34,636 --> 00:31:38,316 Speaker 6: the splintering of the media, if that were possible, would 552 00:31:38,316 --> 00:31:42,116 Speaker 6: help Americans to find common ground on what our problems 553 00:31:42,116 --> 00:31:45,636 Speaker 6: are and how to solve them. First of all, it 554 00:31:45,716 --> 00:31:48,316 Speaker 6: seems a lot of us have gotten this somewhat mistaken 555 00:31:48,356 --> 00:31:53,036 Speaker 6: idea about just how siloed the news media are. This 556 00:31:53,116 --> 00:31:56,956 Speaker 6: whole idea of the echo chamber. Here's danigal Young again. 557 00:31:57,276 --> 00:32:01,156 Speaker 4: By and large, political scientists and communications scholars have come 558 00:32:01,196 --> 00:32:05,676 Speaker 4: away from the empirical evidence with the conclusion that the 559 00:32:05,716 --> 00:32:11,796 Speaker 4: echo chamber is largely a myth in that people are 560 00:32:11,836 --> 00:32:17,476 Speaker 4: not only seeing content that supports their side. 561 00:32:17,836 --> 00:32:20,036 Speaker 2: So the usual idea of the echo chamber is that 562 00:32:20,076 --> 00:32:23,436 Speaker 2: people on different sides of the political divide aren't even 563 00:32:23,516 --> 00:32:25,556 Speaker 2: exposed to voices from the other side. 564 00:32:25,956 --> 00:32:29,396 Speaker 6: Yeah, the idea that you only hear right wing voices 565 00:32:29,436 --> 00:32:32,076 Speaker 6: on right wing media and likewise on the left. 566 00:32:32,276 --> 00:32:35,596 Speaker 2: But Danagaile is saying, that's not how it works. If 567 00:32:35,636 --> 00:32:38,276 Speaker 2: you watch ms now we used to be called MSNBC, 568 00:32:39,036 --> 00:32:41,076 Speaker 2: you see a whole bunch of Donald Trump and his 569 00:32:41,156 --> 00:32:43,276 Speaker 2: allies and what they have to say about things. And 570 00:32:43,316 --> 00:32:45,596 Speaker 2: if you watch Fox News or look at his website, 571 00:32:45,716 --> 00:32:48,596 Speaker 2: you'll see a ton of content about Democrats and the left. 572 00:32:48,676 --> 00:32:51,236 Speaker 2: Like that's actually like the major thing that they're doing 573 00:32:51,316 --> 00:32:53,996 Speaker 2: is getting people outraged about what the left is doing. 574 00:32:54,476 --> 00:32:59,276 Speaker 6: So the question is not do opposing perspectives get covered, 575 00:32:59,916 --> 00:33:03,836 Speaker 6: it's how are they presented. Here's what Danna said. 576 00:33:04,116 --> 00:33:07,516 Speaker 4: You are seeing claims. They're being made by the other side, 577 00:33:08,036 --> 00:33:11,516 Speaker 4: but they're often present to you, perhaps shared by someone 578 00:33:12,036 --> 00:33:16,436 Speaker 4: who's on your side, right who says, look at how 579 00:33:16,476 --> 00:33:19,036 Speaker 4: awful these people are. This is the kind of thing 580 00:33:19,156 --> 00:33:22,196 Speaker 4: that they're saying over on that other network. Here is 581 00:33:22,236 --> 00:33:25,556 Speaker 4: what they're saying, and it is a moral violation. It's 582 00:33:25,596 --> 00:33:27,796 Speaker 4: a violation of our moral order. 583 00:33:28,436 --> 00:33:33,076 Speaker 6: Dana brought up an example, remember when Katanji Brown Jackson 584 00:33:33,236 --> 00:33:36,076 Speaker 6: was being confirmed for the Supreme Court in twenty twenty two. 585 00:33:36,436 --> 00:33:39,756 Speaker 6: In your understanding, what does critical race theory mean? 586 00:33:39,796 --> 00:33:40,196 Speaker 3: What is it? 587 00:33:42,156 --> 00:33:46,516 Speaker 9: Senator? My understanding is that, well, I remember Republican senators 588 00:33:46,516 --> 00:33:48,396 Speaker 9: on the committee asked her a bunch of questions about 589 00:33:48,396 --> 00:33:52,876 Speaker 9: her views on CRT, which was like the conservative rage 590 00:33:52,876 --> 00:33:56,956 Speaker 9: issue at the time, and Ted Cruz, the senator from Texas, 591 00:33:56,956 --> 00:34:00,876 Speaker 9: asked her about an anti racism book This suggested babies 592 00:34:00,916 --> 00:34:02,236 Speaker 9: can be taught to be racist. 593 00:34:02,756 --> 00:34:04,956 Speaker 4: Do you agree with this book that is being taught 594 00:34:04,996 --> 00:34:09,436 Speaker 4: with kids that the babies are racist? 595 00:34:10,236 --> 00:34:12,876 Speaker 2: So he had a black nominee for the court, and 596 00:34:12,956 --> 00:34:15,276 Speaker 2: lots of the questions were about her views on race. 597 00:34:15,836 --> 00:34:20,356 Speaker 6: To Danagal's point about the echo Chamber issue, MSNBC as 598 00:34:20,396 --> 00:34:23,876 Speaker 6: it was called at the time, the heavily pro democratic, 599 00:34:24,116 --> 00:34:29,156 Speaker 6: anti Republican cable channel, gave these exchanges a lot of attention. 600 00:34:29,436 --> 00:34:32,556 Speaker 6: I mean, there's no question that Ted Cruz figured prominently 601 00:34:33,396 --> 00:34:37,796 Speaker 6: on the so called you know, left leaning channel, along 602 00:34:37,836 --> 00:34:41,436 Speaker 6: with analysis like this from a democratic political strategist. 603 00:34:41,636 --> 00:34:44,516 Speaker 13: This is about her being a black woman, basically casting 604 00:34:44,556 --> 00:34:48,676 Speaker 13: her as a radical, as a black radical who is 605 00:34:48,836 --> 00:34:51,836 Speaker 13: out to get white people. I mean, quite frankly, it 606 00:34:51,876 --> 00:34:54,036 Speaker 13: looked like I saw Ted Cruz commit a hate crime 607 00:34:54,276 --> 00:34:54,836 Speaker 13: in that hearing. 608 00:34:54,876 --> 00:34:59,396 Speaker 6: Gim Meanwhile, over on Fox News, Sean Hannity brought Cruise 609 00:34:59,516 --> 00:35:00,756 Speaker 6: onto his show that evening. 610 00:35:00,956 --> 00:35:02,716 Speaker 2: Ted Cruise was with a senator. 611 00:35:02,396 --> 00:35:05,236 Speaker 6: And invited him to talk some more about his grilling 612 00:35:05,276 --> 00:35:06,316 Speaker 6: of the judge. 613 00:35:06,116 --> 00:35:08,196 Speaker 4: And when it came to critical race theory, she didn't 614 00:35:08,196 --> 00:35:09,116 Speaker 4: want to answer the question. 615 00:35:10,436 --> 00:35:13,116 Speaker 2: So it's an interesting clarification that Dana is making. Right. 616 00:35:13,596 --> 00:35:15,876 Speaker 2: She's saying, no matter how much you're in your news bubble, 617 00:35:16,196 --> 00:35:18,996 Speaker 2: you're still hearing voices and ideas from the other side, 618 00:35:19,356 --> 00:35:22,276 Speaker 2: maybe a lot, but that doesn't really change the fact 619 00:35:22,276 --> 00:35:24,836 Speaker 2: that people are getting wildly different views of the world 620 00:35:24,876 --> 00:35:28,636 Speaker 2: if they're watching Fox News versus MS. Now, whether you 621 00:35:28,716 --> 00:35:32,516 Speaker 2: call them echo chambers or not, really it just highlights 622 00:35:32,556 --> 00:35:35,916 Speaker 2: how crucial framing and analysis are in presenting what's happening 623 00:35:35,956 --> 00:35:36,316 Speaker 2: out there. 624 00:35:36,916 --> 00:35:40,676 Speaker 6: There's another common idea that people are strongly influenced by 625 00:35:40,676 --> 00:35:44,076 Speaker 6: the media they consume, especially if it's news that we 626 00:35:44,156 --> 00:35:48,516 Speaker 6: think of as strongly biased. That whole My uncle Ned's 627 00:35:48,636 --> 00:35:51,956 Speaker 6: right winger because he watches Fox News idea. 628 00:35:51,396 --> 00:35:54,396 Speaker 2: But it's more complicated than that. Did Fox News turn 629 00:35:54,436 --> 00:35:57,396 Speaker 2: your uncle into a right winger? Or did Uncle Ned 630 00:35:57,476 --> 00:36:00,476 Speaker 2: turn the Fox because he already had right wing views? 631 00:36:05,956 --> 00:36:10,036 Speaker 6: This whole discussion can almost make you wane if it 632 00:36:10,076 --> 00:36:12,036 Speaker 6: even matters what the media reports. 633 00:36:12,316 --> 00:36:14,916 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean there's another reason to wonder about that. 634 00:36:15,236 --> 00:36:18,076 Speaker 2: It has to do with our hobbled, corrupt system of government. 635 00:36:18,796 --> 00:36:21,636 Speaker 2: There was a study in twenty fourteen by scholars at 636 00:36:21,636 --> 00:36:23,796 Speaker 2: Princeton Northwestern. 637 00:36:23,596 --> 00:36:27,316 Speaker 6: Twenty fourteen, so back when I think, well, let's say, 638 00:36:27,476 --> 00:36:31,396 Speaker 6: when more Americans felt reasonably secure that the US had 639 00:36:31,396 --> 00:36:33,316 Speaker 6: a functioning democracy. 640 00:36:32,996 --> 00:36:36,436 Speaker 2: Right before the Trump administration launched this newest assault on 641 00:36:36,476 --> 00:36:40,316 Speaker 2: democratic norms. It was before the Congress basically newted itself 642 00:36:40,516 --> 00:36:43,916 Speaker 2: and let the president decide everything. But even then, this 643 00:36:43,996 --> 00:36:47,116 Speaker 2: study found that there was almost no relationship between what 644 00:36:47,196 --> 00:36:51,356 Speaker 2: American citizens wanted according to opinion polls, and the policies 645 00:36:51,396 --> 00:36:55,436 Speaker 2: we get from our government. Large majorities favor higher taxes 646 00:36:55,436 --> 00:36:59,276 Speaker 2: on rich people, more gun safety laws, stronger action on 647 00:36:59,316 --> 00:37:02,156 Speaker 2: the climate crisis. And that's just listening a few things 648 00:37:02,596 --> 00:37:06,636 Speaker 2: a year after year, our representative government doesn't deliver what 649 00:37:06,676 --> 00:37:07,356 Speaker 2: the people want. 650 00:37:07,876 --> 00:37:11,196 Speaker 6: We did a whole series season four, The Land That 651 00:37:11,276 --> 00:37:16,876 Speaker 6: Never Has Been Yet, about the ways America's democratic system 652 00:37:16,916 --> 00:37:19,996 Speaker 6: of government was designed from the start to be not 653 00:37:20,196 --> 00:37:24,716 Speaker 6: too democratic and to stemy the will of the majority 654 00:37:24,716 --> 00:37:25,276 Speaker 6: of the people. 655 00:37:25,556 --> 00:37:29,196 Speaker 2: I mean, it's not all media, but can't let the 656 00:37:29,236 --> 00:37:32,916 Speaker 2: media off the hook. Journalism is a core mechanism of 657 00:37:32,916 --> 00:37:36,676 Speaker 2: a functioning democracy, right. The real problems with the way 658 00:37:36,716 --> 00:37:39,916 Speaker 2: our media system carries out this crucial role. Some of 659 00:37:39,916 --> 00:37:42,476 Speaker 2: those problems are structural. We'll have a lot more to 660 00:37:42,476 --> 00:37:44,116 Speaker 2: say about that change. 661 00:37:44,156 --> 00:37:46,356 Speaker 6: When I told people we were working on a season 662 00:37:46,556 --> 00:37:50,916 Speaker 6: on the news media and the country's information crisis, some 663 00:37:50,956 --> 00:37:53,596 Speaker 6: people said, oh, so it's going to be about AI 664 00:37:54,196 --> 00:37:56,836 Speaker 6: and how we can't trust what we see and hear anymore, 665 00:37:57,796 --> 00:38:02,556 Speaker 6: you know, think AI photos and videos especially. Other people said, oh, 666 00:38:02,636 --> 00:38:05,956 Speaker 6: so it'll be about the Trumpian attack on news companies 667 00:38:05,956 --> 00:38:06,836 Speaker 6: in the First Amendment. 668 00:38:07,116 --> 00:38:09,796 Speaker 2: And I mean, look, all that stuff is wild, no 669 00:38:09,916 --> 00:38:12,436 Speaker 2: doubt about it. But at the same time, I don't 670 00:38:12,436 --> 00:38:16,436 Speaker 2: think anybody thinks this all started with AI, right, I 671 00:38:17,476 --> 00:38:19,556 Speaker 2: think it goes back a little further than that. So 672 00:38:20,036 --> 00:38:22,676 Speaker 2: those things will definitely come up. We're going much deeper 673 00:38:22,676 --> 00:38:25,116 Speaker 2: into the structures and forces that have shaped the American 674 00:38:25,156 --> 00:38:27,076 Speaker 2: news media for a much longer. 675 00:38:26,756 --> 00:38:33,876 Speaker 6: Time, and it can all seem pretty daunting. But I 676 00:38:33,876 --> 00:38:36,396 Speaker 6: don't know about you. I'm not ready to throw up 677 00:38:36,436 --> 00:38:40,716 Speaker 6: my hands and say we're doomed. The news is just 678 00:38:40,756 --> 00:38:43,636 Speaker 6: a way to amuse ourselves, and it can never change 679 00:38:43,676 --> 00:38:48,116 Speaker 6: anything because the system's rigged and anyway people are hopelessly 680 00:38:48,196 --> 00:38:50,956 Speaker 6: dug in and won't listen to facts they don't like. 681 00:38:52,276 --> 00:38:56,276 Speaker 6: There are so many examples where journalism has made a 682 00:38:56,316 --> 00:39:00,636 Speaker 6: difference and is making a difference. Information comes out and 683 00:39:00,756 --> 00:39:05,436 Speaker 6: shifts public opinion, leading to change that affects people's lives. 684 00:39:05,756 --> 00:39:08,356 Speaker 2: Look, yo, let me tell you something. As somebody who 685 00:39:08,396 --> 00:39:10,956 Speaker 2: literally like, this is what my degree, this is my job. 686 00:39:11,276 --> 00:39:13,956 Speaker 2: Nobody gets mad or at journalism in the media in 687 00:39:14,076 --> 00:39:17,036 Speaker 2: me right. But at the same time, most of what 688 00:39:17,156 --> 00:39:19,916 Speaker 2: I know about the world comes from journalism, you know 689 00:39:19,956 --> 00:39:22,436 Speaker 2: what I mean? When I see ice kidnap somebody, that's 690 00:39:22,476 --> 00:39:25,316 Speaker 2: because a journalist reported on it. When I know that 691 00:39:25,476 --> 00:39:28,436 Speaker 2: like it's about to snow, or that there was an earthquake, 692 00:39:28,476 --> 00:39:31,316 Speaker 2: it's because you know, I didn't see it. Myself usually, 693 00:39:31,916 --> 00:39:34,756 Speaker 2: and I think, as angry as we are, the end 694 00:39:34,796 --> 00:39:37,316 Speaker 2: of the day is we have to have journalism because 695 00:39:37,316 --> 00:39:38,956 Speaker 2: we have to know what's going on in the world 696 00:39:39,036 --> 00:39:42,276 Speaker 2: just to live our everyday personal lives. If we're fired up, 697 00:39:42,316 --> 00:39:44,796 Speaker 2: a person who's fired up about social justice or feels 698 00:39:44,796 --> 00:39:47,756 Speaker 2: like something wrong, chances are everything that you know that's 699 00:39:47,756 --> 00:39:50,236 Speaker 2: getting you angry is something you learned because of some 700 00:39:50,316 --> 00:39:54,516 Speaker 2: kind of journalism or media. So I think we can 701 00:39:54,516 --> 00:39:57,516 Speaker 2: be infuriated about it, but we actually have to solve 702 00:39:57,516 --> 00:40:01,716 Speaker 2: this problem. 703 00:40:01,796 --> 00:40:04,916 Speaker 6: Here's a taste of what's to come here in season. 704 00:40:04,596 --> 00:40:07,236 Speaker 4: Eight with local county commission races. 705 00:40:07,276 --> 00:40:09,676 Speaker 5: Here I tried like to dig in to find out 706 00:40:09,676 --> 00:40:11,916 Speaker 5: where people stood, because I'm not going to vote if 707 00:40:11,916 --> 00:40:13,276 Speaker 5: I can't get the information. 708 00:40:13,556 --> 00:40:16,876 Speaker 6: Now, I recognize sadly that the worst and press corps 709 00:40:16,916 --> 00:40:19,076 Speaker 6: is all too often the praetorian guard of the left. 710 00:40:19,196 --> 00:40:22,196 Speaker 13: No wonder people hate the media depends what one means 711 00:40:22,196 --> 00:40:23,156 Speaker 13: by left wing. 712 00:40:23,476 --> 00:40:25,116 Speaker 6: You know, I mean, wait a minute. 713 00:40:24,836 --> 00:40:27,796 Speaker 2: If you even address the issues of climate change and 714 00:40:27,916 --> 00:40:32,556 Speaker 2: environmental destruction, that signifies a strong left leaning philosophy. 715 00:40:33,036 --> 00:40:34,876 Speaker 13: One thing that can be heard for us to imagine 716 00:40:34,916 --> 00:40:37,916 Speaker 13: is that a lot of news you would actually get 717 00:40:37,956 --> 00:40:38,476 Speaker 13: in church. 718 00:40:38,796 --> 00:40:44,116 Speaker 11: The early founders, they truly believe that democracy was impossible 719 00:40:44,356 --> 00:40:47,796 Speaker 11: without a free press and a press that people could 720 00:40:47,796 --> 00:40:48,796 Speaker 11: actually access. 721 00:40:48,956 --> 00:40:54,716 Speaker 13: So today we rededicate a part of the airwaves which 722 00:40:54,756 --> 00:40:56,116 Speaker 13: belong to all the people. 723 00:40:56,276 --> 00:40:59,316 Speaker 8: When you're suddenly fighting with thirty channels instead of just 724 00:40:59,356 --> 00:41:02,476 Speaker 8: two for eyeballs, you start to get the rise of 725 00:41:03,156 --> 00:41:04,516 Speaker 8: political entertainment. 726 00:41:04,836 --> 00:41:08,276 Speaker 6: You're doing theater when you should be doing debate, which 727 00:41:08,276 --> 00:41:10,516 Speaker 6: would be great. No, it's not honest. 728 00:41:11,276 --> 00:41:14,236 Speaker 4: The new report is raising alarms about the state of 729 00:41:14,276 --> 00:41:15,476 Speaker 4: American democracy. 730 00:41:15,876 --> 00:41:18,796 Speaker 2: I wrote a piece before the elections saying, if Trump wins, 731 00:41:18,796 --> 00:41:21,716 Speaker 2: blamed the New York Times, and I meant it. 732 00:41:22,756 --> 00:41:29,316 Speaker 6: And eventually we'll wrestle with what to do about it. All. 733 00:41:29,396 --> 00:41:32,476 Speaker 6: The News was created and produced by me John Beewin, 734 00:41:32,716 --> 00:41:37,716 Speaker 6: with chenjer Ei Kumanika and story editor Diane Hodson. Assistant 735 00:41:37,716 --> 00:41:42,836 Speaker 6: producer Arlene a Revolo. Fact checking by Anna Pujoel Mazzini. 736 00:41:43,516 --> 00:41:47,276 Speaker 6: Music by Brian Blade and The Fellowship Band, Michelle Osis, 737 00:41:47,596 --> 00:41:52,796 Speaker 6: Alex Weston, James Nathan Jones, and Jason Hill. Music consulting 738 00:41:52,876 --> 00:41:57,476 Speaker 6: by Joe Augustine of Narrative Music. You can find transcripts 739 00:41:57,516 --> 00:42:01,156 Speaker 6: at our website Scene on Radio dot org. The show 740 00:42:01,356 --> 00:42:05,396 Speaker 6: is distributed by our friends at PRX. Scene on Radio 741 00:42:05,476 --> 00:42:08,756 Speaker 6: comes to you from the Keenan Institute for Ethics at 742 00:42:08,796 --> 00:42:09,796 Speaker 6: Duke University