1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. It's a dark and disturbing 2 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: dive into the mind of triple murderer Chris Watts, heard 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: in a newly released interview with investigators. So that makes 4 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: sense that I ask you asking these questions if it 5 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: doesn't make sense that his wife, Shanan, fifteen weeks pregnant, 6 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 1: seen here coming home from a business trip in August. 7 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: Watts says they argued she accused him of cheating and 8 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 1: told him this veryone's head cared again, arrot sitting again, 9 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:36,639 Speaker 1: good off, don't hurt anything. Watts says that triggered him 10 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: into a rage. He says Chanan did not fight back 11 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 1: as he strangled her to death, and just feel like 12 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 1: there is already something in my mind that was the 13 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: planet I was going to do it, and I woke 14 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: up that morning it was going to happen, and I 15 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: have no control of him. The couple's daughters, Watts says, 16 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: woke to see their mother face down in bed, wrapped 17 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: in a sheet, and so it happened lament, but she said. 18 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: Watts says he drove his wife's body from their Frederick, 19 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: Colorado home to a remote oil field, his girls sitting 20 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 1: in the backseat. There, Watt says he strangled three year 21 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: old Celeste and four year old Bella. Now behind bars. 22 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: Chris Watts, a so called killer dad, says he's had 23 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: time to reflect, to think about his past and wish 24 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: he had quote handled things differently. Well, that's certainly putting 25 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: perfume on the pig. I. Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. 26 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us, with me an all 27 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: star panel. Vincent Hill, private investigator, doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst 28 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: at Doctor Bethany Marshall dot Com. Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina 29 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: family lawyer, doctor William Moroney, renowned medical examiner and author 30 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: of American Narcan found on Amazon. Joining me right now. 31 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: Robin Willinsky, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter and author 32 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: of Beautiful Life, The CSI behind of the Casey Anthony Trial. 33 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: Robin Malinski, He's had time to think, you know what, 34 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: he could have done that at home or on his 35 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: way to work in the morning, sitting in the car 36 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: and complete solitude. Why did he have to kill his 37 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: wife and children to have time to think and reflect 38 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 1: on what else himself? Yeah, it makes me ill when 39 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: I think about this. Because now not only would he 40 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: have four year old Bella to think about, three year 41 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 1: old Celeste, his second daughter, to think about, his wife 42 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: Shenan thirty four years old to think about, but he 43 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: would have a brand new baby, a little boy to 44 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: be thinking about, Nancy because his wife at the time 45 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,919 Speaker 1: was fifteen weeks pregnant at the time that he killed her. 46 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: That's right, and they had already picked out the name Nico, 47 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 1: you know, speaking of his children, Bella and Celeste. Take 48 00:02:55,800 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: a listen to four year old Bella, my daddy, help me, 49 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:26,920 Speaker 1: help me Godeka, my daddy, Daddy, and love you. There 50 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: you hear little Bella, four years old in the back 51 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: seat singing a love song to her father. I know 52 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: that hits home especially to you, doctor William Moroney, medical 53 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: examiner and author, but father as well. You know I 54 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: love it when you send me pictures in text of 55 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: your children and I get to watch them grow along 56 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: with my own children. So let's get right down to it, 57 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: doctor Moroney. I don't know what his game is putting 58 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: it out there that he's had time to think and reflect. 59 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: What does he want to send its reduction? But let's 60 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: talk about reality, not just what he's thinking about behind bars. 61 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: But the actual deaths of Bella age four and Celeste, 62 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 1: age three, the actual death being suffocated, strangled, and placed 63 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 1: in petroleum oil, not any respect. There's no chronological time 64 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: for him to evaluate, slow down and reflect in these actions. 65 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: These actions are premeditated. The children must have been so 66 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: frightened to not really know where's mom? What kind of 67 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: support do I get? Then to be betrayed by their father, 68 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: physically assaulted and then stuffed into a dark tank. This 69 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 1: is evil at its finest, or this is evil at 70 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 1: it worst. You know, doctor William Moroney, you've seen it all. 71 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: You know. There's no telling how many thousands of autopsies 72 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: you have performed. But even when the autopsy was written 73 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: up and we got the autopsy report, it said, for instance, 74 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: when they pulled Bella and Celeste out of the oil tanks, 75 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: they were quote de gloved end quote Again, that's quite 76 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 1: the euphemism. Please explain what happened when Bella and Celeste 77 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 1: were pulled out of the oil tankers. Their father crushed 78 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: them into the oil drums. Degloving is a technical term 79 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: for something that happens to the body and the skin 80 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: on the outside when somebody's decomposing the outside layer's skin. 81 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: To speak plainly, the outside layer of skin begins to 82 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: sluff off, like that plastic bag from the deli. And 83 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: when the outside layer of skin sluffs off, it's referred 84 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 1: to as degloving because it's the same as taking a 85 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: glove off. You know, in my mind, you're doing the 86 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: same thing, Maroney, And you know I very rarely disagree 87 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: with you here. You're really trying to paint it with 88 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 1: a different stroke, make it sound better than it is. Yeah. 89 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: When they try to get baby Bella and Celesque out 90 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: of the oil drums where Daddy had crushed their bodies 91 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: into their skin tore off their arms. When they pull 92 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: them up, they pulled up nothing but the skin off 93 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: their arms. That's what deg gloving is. Why did that happen, 94 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: doctor Moroney? That happens because inside the body, it's a 95 00:06:54,760 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: complex mixture of protein, tendons, ligaments, and water content and 96 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: that all breaks down in the oil because of the oil, 97 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: and internally because of natural organic bacteria, and there's not 98 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: a lot left. In small children, they don't have the 99 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: same bone frame, they're not as strong, they don't have 100 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: the same muscle mass, Uh, this is a it's it's 101 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: a very terrible thing to look at because the children 102 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: came out in pieces crime stories with Nancy Grace of 103 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: communicate senses. My name is to go on. I'm calling 104 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: because I'm concerned about a friend of mine. Um. I 105 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: dropped her off at her house at two in the 106 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: morning last night because we were out of town together 107 00:07:55,400 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: and threw all the way back to the airport and pregnant, 108 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: and I haven't been able to get ahold of her 109 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: this morning. And I've gotten to her house and her 110 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: cards there and stuff like that, but she won't answer 111 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: the door. You won't answer the phone calls, you want 112 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: to answer the text messages. And I'm just really really concerned. 113 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: And at a doctor's appointment this morning and she didn't 114 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: go to it, and I just I don't know what 115 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: to do. I've called him and want to him, and 116 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: he said that she went on a play date with 117 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: her and there's two daughters, but on a play date 118 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: the books, which I not her car. You are hearing 119 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: a friend of Chanan Watts calling nine one one. The 120 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,079 Speaker 1: friend worried because she hadn't heard from Chanan. They had 121 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: gone out of town the night before and flew back home. 122 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: They'd gone out of town for a work commitment, fly back, 123 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: come and by the time Shanan had gotten out of 124 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: the airport and gotten home, it was almost two o'clock 125 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: in the morning. And then Chanane didn't show up at 126 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 1: a doctor's appointment. Take a listen to this. I went 127 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: to the doctor's office. The doctors, I know you can't 128 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 1: give me things? Can you just tell me? She shot 129 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: up at her appointments this morning and the lady looked like, no, 130 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: she did not. Okay, whole behavior, room behavior for her, 131 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: no pregnancy like excited. That's right, she was so excited. 132 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 1: Why would she not show up to a doctor's appointment? 133 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: Joining me Vincent Hill, Doctor Bethany Marshall, Kathleen Murphy, doctor 134 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: William Moroney, and Robin will Lynsky to doctor Bethany Marshall, 135 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 1: renowned psychoanalyst. You can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall 136 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 1: dot com. Doctor Bethany, I want to talk about the 137 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: most recent news where behind from behind bars, Chris Watts, 138 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: the so called killer Dad, has made sure we find 139 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: out that he quote wished he had handled things differently. Well, 140 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: that's certainly an understatement. Doctor Bethany, Well Nancy. When he 141 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: says he wishes he has handled things differently, he's acting 142 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: so cavalier, as if this was not a serious crime, 143 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 1: as if he didn't kill his wife and daughters, and Nancy, 144 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: we know that this is how sociopaths talk. They bring 145 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: very shallow meanings to very deep words. Remember the BTK killer. 146 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: I can never forget this one when he's set in 147 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: court representing himself. You know, I'm not a bad guy. 148 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: I comforted her before I strangled her. I gave her 149 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: a glass of water. And he fancied himself, this great guy, 150 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 1: because he offered his victim a glass of water as 151 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: she was crying before he strangled her. So to me, 152 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,199 Speaker 1: Chris Watts is no different. When he says I wish 153 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: I had handled it differently, it's almost like saying, hey, 154 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: I brought this gift to a kid's birthday party, and 155 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 1: I wish I had just used different wrapping paper. That's 156 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: about as much meaning as he brings to a statement 157 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:10,319 Speaker 1: like that. Wow. Wow, that's a good analogy. To Kathleen Murphy, 158 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: North Carolina family law specialist, Kathleen, this all started with 159 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: a domestic problem. The problem was Chris Watts the problem. 160 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: He's the problem, you know, Nancy. I thought about this 161 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: before I came on air today, and one of my 162 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: questions is, why does Chris Watts want to go through 163 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: this paperwork for an appellate process? And I was looking 164 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: through some information and he said that he's doing this 165 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: because he didn't have his day in court. It's all 166 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: about him. It's all about wait wait wait wait wait 167 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: wait wait wait wait what now say that again? Place 168 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: When looking up why Chris wants wants an appeal after 169 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: pleading guilty in California or in Colorado, he states that 170 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: he is appealing because he didn't have his day in court. Okay, 171 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: you know what. Vincent Hill, a private investigator, cop turned 172 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:17,079 Speaker 1: PI Vincent Hill, author of Playbook to a Murderer, helped 173 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: me out. Didn't have his day in court. Could you 174 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: just give our listeners a brief outline of the thousands 175 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 1: and thousands of hours police and detectives put into making 176 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: this case. Well, Nancy, the reason he didn't have his 177 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: day in courtis because he pled guilty, so he actually 178 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: forego his day in court. So here's a guy who 179 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: sat with investigators. He talked about how he killed Shennan 180 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: first while the girls were there asking what are you 181 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: doing to mommy? Then he kills CC and then Bella. 182 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: And now he says, oh, I need my day in court. Well, 183 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: you gave that up when you pled guilty. So what 184 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: are you talking about? You know, I'm just thinking about 185 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: what his Maybe Kathleen Murphy with me, doctor Bethany Marshall, 186 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,839 Speaker 1: Vincent and he old, doctor William Roney and Robin Willnski. 187 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy give our listeners a tiny glimpse of the 188 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of man hours that went into this investigation. 189 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: And he's saying he didn't get his day in court, 190 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: just like Vincent Hill said he pled guilty, that was 191 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: his day in court. But explain what painstaking effort the 192 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: cops went through, Nancy. It just preparing for a simple 193 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 1: domestic action. I can easily spend hours upon days upon 194 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:45,439 Speaker 1: days reviewing evidence of photographs, text messages, emails, police officer 195 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: dispatch communications, coming on to the property and looking at 196 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 1: the crime scene investigative work. I can only imagine it 197 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 1: was thousands of hours in this case, and they worked 198 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: a great job. They did a care each up in 199 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: this Let's go to doctor William Moroney, maybe you help 200 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:04,439 Speaker 1: me out, Moroni. You on your end as a medical examiner, 201 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: me on my end as a prosecutor working with cops 202 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: and detectives. A case like this takes. Let's just say 203 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: I would work a case, and I was the prosecutor, 204 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: and I was building on the backs of the cops 205 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: what they had done in cases. And I would spend 206 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: literally eighteen hours a day working a case before trial 207 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: to have it ready to present in a seamless fashion. 208 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: I'm talking about thousands of men hours. How do you 209 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: think they found the bodies, Maroni? They investigated. They found 210 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: the bodies of Bella and Celeste hidden down in giant 211 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: oil drums at the oil fields of Anadarko where Chris 212 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: Watts worked. They had to come out with cadaver dogs, 213 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: sent dogs take them out there in the middle of 214 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: the hot sun and try to find chinnan water down 215 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: buried in a shallow grave. They had to interview neighbors. 216 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: They had to get surveillance video from up and down 217 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: the street they had. That really is one of the 218 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: things that cracked the case is the neighbors surveillance video 219 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: in his home where he shows Chris Watts, What happened 220 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: the night Shenanne goes missing. You can see Watts and 221 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: it dawns on his face. Oh crap, I'm busted. He's looking. 222 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: He puts his hands upon his head and goes, oh no, oh, 223 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: no oh, Because you can see Shenanne goes in and 224 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 1: never leaves. She didn't go on a playdate. No getting 225 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: that surveillance video, tracking down witnesses, calling in the dogs, interview, interview, interview, 226 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: find me the old girlfriends, the new girlfriends. I mean, 227 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: it's literally thousands of hours. And just give me a 228 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: glimpse at what an autopsy entails, doctor Moroney. Well, every 229 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: one of those autopsy had to be ironclad. It had 230 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: to be extensively sampled. It's not just the autopsy of 231 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: the body. It's the collection of tissues. It's the microscope, 232 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: it's the processing of samples. It's ten to twelve hour 233 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: lab days because you got to let some people go 234 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: home and sleep, sometimes for weeks and months, and it's 235 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: multiple crime scenes. It's the home, it's the vehicle, it's 236 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: the oil field, and that entire tank had to be 237 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: drained when it was all done, and all that oil 238 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: had to be examined, because you don't just pull up 239 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: cadavers out of oil and let that tank sit there. 240 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: That tank had to have been dissembled and investigated the 241 00:16:53,800 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: time alone. On an average, toxicology runs at least nine days. 242 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 1: Sometimes the state, in order to guarantee a case being ironclad, 243 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: wants six months of study because all those samples have 244 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:16,400 Speaker 1: to be corrected and read by another pathologist thousands, thousands 245 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: of hours. And now, after all this what brings us 246 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: here today justice Chris Watts, the killer Dad, says he 247 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: didn't get justice and he wants a do over. Crime 248 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. I was in a really, really, 249 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: really bad place and I got a friend to friend 250 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: requests from Chris on Facebook and I was like, Ah, 251 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: what the heck, I'm never going to meet him. Accept 252 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: One thing led to another, and eight years later, we 253 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 1: have two kids, we live in Colorado, and he's the 254 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 1: best thing that has ever happened to me. And because 255 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: of my health challenges, because I got so sick, I 256 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: let him in and he only knew me at that time. 257 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: He knew me at my worst and he accepted me. 258 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: And you know, your vows like through sickness and everything 259 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: he's been there. He was the one that let me 260 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: lay on him and fall asleep for three and a 261 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: half hours on his lap while he had a pee. 262 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: He is the best thing that has ever ever happened 263 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: to me. So with that being said, know that no 264 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: matter what, I can go on forever with a story 265 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: like No, she can't go on forever because she's dead. 266 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: She was murdered well into her pregnancy. Was she was 267 00:18:55,080 --> 00:19:01,880 Speaker 1: straddled by her husband, Chris Watts, and strangled. Then his children, 268 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 1: little Bella and Celeste, come in and see mommy there, 269 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: and he puts them in the car along with her body. 270 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: I mean, you can see him loading it up on 271 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: a neighbors surveillance video. And first of all Celestius murdered. 272 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,919 Speaker 1: And then as Bella says, it's the same thing that 273 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: happened as Cecy gonna happen to me, Daddy, No, she knew. 274 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 1: The little four year old girl knew she was going 275 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: to die. I mean, and now he wants a do over. 276 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: Robbie wi Lynski Robbi Willlynski joining me Crime online dot 277 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter where you can find this and all 278 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: other breaking crime and justice news. Robi Wilenski an appeal. 279 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 1: He pled guilty, and I can tell you this, every 280 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,360 Speaker 1: time I took a guilty please, Robi Wilynski. Sometimes I'd 281 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 1: line up twenty five people at wants to put them 282 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: all under oath. Everyone, do you swear what you were 283 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: about to tell this court will be the truth, the 284 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 1: whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help me God, 285 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 1: And yes, I put God in it. I did it all, 286 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: and that all have to swear under oath that what 287 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: they were saying is true. Then I would take each 288 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: one by their name, confirm who they are. Are you, 289 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: in fact, Robin Wilensky, Are you the same Robin Wilensky 290 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: charged with the murder of Shenan Watts, Bella and Celeste Watts. Yes, 291 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: I am that very Robin Wilenski. And then I would 292 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: lay out very briefly the facts in the indictment and 293 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: ask him then do they agree with the facts, and 294 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: do they plead guilty? And give them all their rights? 295 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: And then they plead guilty under oath. So how Robin 296 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: Wilenski explained to me is that what he's doing Chris 297 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,479 Speaker 1: Watts wants a do over an appeal of his own 298 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: guilty plea. That's right, because see he's thirty three years 299 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,479 Speaker 1: old and he's sitting there literally looking at the walls, Nancy, 300 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 1: and facing fifty years so he won't get out if 301 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 1: he lives until his eighties. If you do the math, 302 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: and here's the thing, right, so you lay it out. 303 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,479 Speaker 1: It was murder charges, and then they tacked down another 304 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: two because under Colorado's Saint Law, the kids were under 305 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: the age of twelve, so he actually faced five murder charges. 306 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: Said he was guilty, okay, And now there's there's really 307 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: a boo hoo. What I call a boo hoo who 308 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 1: crying factor involves because he wants you to believe that 309 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: he's looking at the pictures of his wife and two 310 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: daughters in his jail cell as he stares at the 311 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: walls and his toilet and his little cot, and that 312 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 1: he wants you to think that, oh, I'm thinking of them. 313 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: You know, they're in heaven and I'm in hell, and 314 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,640 Speaker 1: boo hoo hoo, and I'm reading books in the Bible 315 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 1: and looking at pictures of my family. Oh, by the way, 316 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 1: that I killed beautifully put Robin Willinski. You know you 317 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 1: may have mister calling because I could just see you 318 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,679 Speaker 1: letting loose on a jury in a closing statement. Not 319 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 1: that you're not an awesome investigative reporter. Kathleen Murphy, I 320 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,400 Speaker 1: think I need a lawyer, all right, you know that's 321 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: that's the funny thing, Kathleen Murphy, I very rarely have 322 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: said I think I need a lawyer. I've got a 323 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 1: grand jury duty tomorrow. I've been called to serve all 324 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 1: the grand jury. And I called um, a long long 325 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: time friend of mine within the office, and said, hey, 326 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:19,159 Speaker 1: I got a problem. He said, what I said, I 327 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: caught a little dui this weekend. Here was this big 328 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: log silence on the end, and he went, well, I went, 329 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: just kid, just kid, I got grand jury tomorrow. I 330 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 1: wanted to find out if you're going to be in 331 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 1: the office. Were you drinking before? No? Man, that was awesome. 332 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 1: No no, no, no, let's don't make this just don't 333 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 1: mix business and pleasure. But okay, Kathleen, help me. Oh, 334 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: I have to say something that Robin. Why is he 335 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,199 Speaker 1: allowed to have pictures? Why is he allowed to have 336 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: pictures in his cell? That's what's making me mad right now. Guilty, 337 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: Please not gonna happen. Withdrawing that he can cut pictures 338 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: out of the People magazine that I'm sure they're all reading. 339 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,199 Speaker 1: But let me ask you this. I want to know, 340 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: explain in a nutshell, which is very hard for US 341 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: lawyers to do and medical examiners. No offense, Maroney, Explain 342 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,120 Speaker 1: in a nutshell, how can you appeal a guilty plea 343 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,159 Speaker 1: that you took. You're the one that stood up in 344 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: court and said, I'm guilty, I'm murdered Shenan Bella and Celesque. Fundamentally, 345 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,679 Speaker 1: it is near to impossible. And I haven't seen the 346 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,880 Speaker 1: guilty plea, but if he waved his right to appeal 347 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: in that guilty plea, it's almost ninety nine point nine 348 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,959 Speaker 1: percent not going to happen. The only thing that he 349 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: really has to appeal is that there was some error 350 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 1: in his sentencing. They can remand it back for different sentencing, 351 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: and I just don't believe that there was any error 352 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 1: in the sentence. Well, because Chris Watts has nothing but 353 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,400 Speaker 1: time on his hands, and he's sitting there and it's 354 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 1: just dawning on him. Whoops, no more sex affairs, no 355 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: more tender or grinder or whatever he was doing online. 356 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: I've got fifty years and I wis Constant prison cell, 357 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 1: and what can I do? What can I do to 358 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 1: get out of here? Right now? He may not have 359 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: found a lawyer to represent him, but he is absolutely 360 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 1: appealing his guilty plea now. He was moved from a 361 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: Colorado prison to a Wis Constant prison after getting death 362 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,360 Speaker 1: threats from his fellow inmates who did not take very 363 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 1: kindly to him murdering his beautiful, pregnant wife and two 364 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:36,199 Speaker 1: little girls. But he says, quote, everything happens so fast. 365 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,679 Speaker 1: They're at the end of what the legal proceedings or 366 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: his wife's murder, and he's not sure he was in 367 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,360 Speaker 1: the right mind to plead guilty like he did. For him, 368 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,640 Speaker 1: it's not just about getting out of jail, right it's 369 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 1: also he hasn't been able to really have his day 370 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: in court, doctor moroney, I mean half his day in court. 371 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: Don't you know that medical examiner that performed those three 372 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: autopsies is just groaning right now. Well, they don't want 373 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: to go back and have to re explain everything, but 374 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 1: they'll do what they need to do because that's why 375 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: they're public servants. It'll take time. It's an investment, but 376 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: we have to do the right thing. Sometimes it means 377 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 1: repeating things that took a long time. I'd feel the 378 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: same way. I want to do the right thing in 379 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: the end. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Know that no 380 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: matter how hard life gets, no matter how low you feel, 381 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: know that deep down in your heart, that there's a purpose, 382 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: there's a reason for everything. We may not understand it 383 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: at the time. It's hard to understand it at the time. 384 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 1: I'm telling you, when I met Chris, I pushed him away. 385 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: I gave every excuse for him to run. I mean 386 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: I gave him an out. Every single day. I gave 387 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 1: him an out. And if you guys know my story 388 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 1: with Chris, you know I gave him an out. I 389 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 1: mean he went to my colonoscopy. I tortured him, I 390 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: rejected him. I pushed him away time and time and 391 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: time again. But when I canceled dates last minute, because 392 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: that's how life is with my health challenges, you cancel 393 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: things last minute, and it's hard for people to get. 394 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: It's hard for me to understand. But he stuck around, 395 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: and he stuck around because he was the one for me. 396 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: That just blakes my heart. That is beautiful Shenan Watts 397 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: in a May Facebook video talking about how she met 398 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: the man of her dreams, slash her murderer, Chris Watts, 399 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: when she was at a low place, was sick, and 400 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 1: that he stuck by her and accepted her. You know, 401 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: oh gosh, just thinking about her mistaken belief that this 402 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 1: guy really loved her. I mean, doctor Bethany Marshall, Chris 403 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: Watts was out sleeping with everybody, every skirt that walked by, 404 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:28,360 Speaker 1: and you know that aside he murdered her. How could 405 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: she have not seen it? That's what people keep asking me. 406 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: Explain how it happens, doctor Bethany. Well, how it happens, Nancy, 407 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: and you and I have talked about this so many times. 408 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: Researchers talk about sociopaths putting on what they call the 409 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:48,679 Speaker 1: mask of sanity. And they use that term because sociopatht 410 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,919 Speaker 1: like Chris Watts, they know they are not like the others. 411 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: He knew that he wasn't courting her because she has 412 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,919 Speaker 1: Crohn's disease or some illness, but he can see pasted 413 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,199 Speaker 1: it because he loves her and he sees that she 414 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 1: has intrinsic values, so he's going to take her to 415 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: all these doctor's appointments and support her in her health challenges. 416 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: He knows he's not wired that way, he's not put 417 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: together that way. He's just out having sex with other 418 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,959 Speaker 1: women whenever she's not available, or maybe because she's not 419 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: continually available. He loves her even more because that means 420 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 1: he can have sexual relationships with multiple women at once. 421 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: But back to the mask of sanity. These men learn 422 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: to act as if they are normal. They move around 423 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: in society as if they have normal feelings and emotions 424 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: such as empathy, being excited by the normal things in life, attachment, 425 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: wanting to take care of other people. They know that 426 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: they have to act that way in order to be acceptable, 427 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: but that is certainly not who they are deep down inside. 428 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: They are very sick, disturbed people missing hill with maycop 429 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: turned pay an author of playbook to a murder vincent 430 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: way in what it does to cops when they work 431 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: so hard you get a conviction or guilty plea and 432 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: then it's reversed or the defendant actually gets ado over 433 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: because he's feeling sorry for himself behind bars. Yeah, Nancy, 434 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: I tell you, it really really ticks you off. You 435 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: wasted all your time, put in all your energy, created 436 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: this huge case. It's been countless hour just this guy 437 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: to say, oh well I need mind to Dan Courts, 438 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: to Dodger Bethany Marshall, help me out. I mean, it's 439 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: got to be a huge blow to the prosecution and 440 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: Shannan's family to think he's going to get ado over 441 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: in court. Well, he already took took away their beloved right. 442 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 1: He has had extraordinary power and has done so much 443 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 1: damage in their lives. And to think that now he's 444 00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: going to trapes or dance into court get all of 445 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: this attention be at the center of things again has 446 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: to be incredibly aggravating, Nancy. I mean, how criminals are 447 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: handled in the court system, it really affects victims in 448 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: terms of whether or not they become retraumatized or they 449 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: have a healing curative experience so they can pick up 450 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: with the rest of their lives. And when the perpetrator 451 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: use of their day in court to laugh at the family, 452 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 1: to mock the family, to lie once again about the 453 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 1: nature of the crime, to diminish and devalue the importance 454 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: of the lives they took, that recreates the crime all 455 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: over again. And for the first responders, and for the 456 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 1: medical examiners and everybody else. It retraumatizes everybody. You know, 457 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 1: I'm just thinking about him sitting there feeling sorry for himself. 458 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: Robin Olinsky, Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter, what can 459 00:30:55,040 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: you tell me about Chris Watts's life behind bars? Well, 460 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 1: he's got a lot of time on his hand. He's 461 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: facing fifty years. I know that things were very unpleasant 462 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: for him in the Colorado prison system, that people were 463 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: threatening his life because not only did he kill his 464 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: pregnant wife, but he's a baby killer and he killed 465 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: his four year old daughter and his three year old daughter. 466 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: And so because of these threats and his safety, the 467 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: Bureau of Prisons had to move him all the way 468 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 1: to Wisconsin. Now, if the prisoners know who he is 469 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: or doesn't know who he is, he's probably in an 470 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: isolated area, doesn't have a lot of contact with people, 471 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: and literally if staring at the walls thinking about how 472 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: he can get out of this situation before he turns 473 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: eighty three years old. You know what, Jackie Howard sitting 474 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 1: right here in the studio with me. Look up, Jackie, 475 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: if you dare just said he only gets one hour 476 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: of free time a day. What one hour? What do 477 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: you mean one hour a free time? He's not holding 478 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: down a job, he's doing nothing. What did you mean 479 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: by that? He only gets out to sell one hour 480 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 1: a day. I don't want him out of a sell 481 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: one hour a day. I want him to stay right 482 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: there and think about Chnan Bella and celesque. Doctor William Moroney. Fine, 483 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:20,959 Speaker 1: let him out, Let him go play basketball in the outdoors, 484 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: let him go for walks. Let him be on his 485 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 1: computer and have all his new girlfriends online and meet 486 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: with lawyers and lounge in the library. You know what, 487 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: I'm not impressed he only gets one hour a day 488 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 1: playing basketball. Ordinarily, I am always up for criminal justice reform. 489 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 1: But as soon as you use the word baby killer, 490 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 1: as soon as the forensic evidence and the autopsy includes 491 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: the most innocent people around, I consider barbaric conditions. I'm 492 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: so old fashioned. It's not a hundred years. Let's go 493 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 1: back a thousand years. This guy needs stone walls, he 494 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 1: needs to sleep on wood. I just feel so enraged 495 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 1: that what we have is a man who killed children, 496 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: let alone a beautiful innocent wife. That psychopathology, that that psychopaths. 497 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: He's also got these narcissistic tendencies that he wants to 498 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 1: go back into the spotlight. He wants to be examined. 499 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 1: He's looking for something to make his life worth wild 500 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: and to become more evil as a killer is better 501 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,960 Speaker 1: than boredom for him. You know what? As anapella court 502 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: reviews whether killer Dad Chris Watts gets any trial, take 503 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 1: a listen to this. My daddy is a hero. He struck, 504 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: helped me. I'm not good to He reads me books, 505 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:14,760 Speaker 1: He type my shoes. If you're a he foling blue 506 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 1: my Daddy, Daddy, and love you, Nancy Grace Crime Store 507 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,280 Speaker 1: signing off, goodbye friend,